lore-discussion

[north jolt]

Perfect

[spice spade]

that’s what I call my palms

[tall echo]

Simaris pretend hates suda but I think he probably real hates me

[north jolt]

But yeah going by the "love is the key" theory to stopping Wally, the two most likely outcomes I can see are either teaching Wally love and making him less of a Ahole or somehow using the power of love and friendship (but in a way that's narratively actually well written and not as cliched) to contain him as a threat

[normal mountain]

An idea that just cracked me up
What if we ended up failing to stop Wally from invading the Origin System, but all he does is collect one of his fingers and leaves?
Narratively nonsensical, leaves no conclusive ending to the arc (something else just catches our attention), and we spend the rest of the game in constant fear of a return that never seems to happen.

[spice spade]

I honestly feel like that’s not impossible; just some strange end that Wally enacts that we can’t make sense of, because Wally is weird and unknowable

[normal mountain]

Please note, I seriously doubt this will happen, but I still find it highly amusing

[feral cape]

I don't want to "love" an eldritch horror I want to kill it rip out it's heart and use it to power a gun to then kill more eldritch horrors

[dire mountain]

We should get a finger powered gun

[graceful swan]

https://tenor.com/view/point-the-gun-finger-gun-hand-pistol-sign-hand-gun-gesture-aiming-gif-26292760

[normal mountain]

I want to befriend eldrich horror so I can have them join me fighting against moar eldrich horrors
And build an army of eldrich horrors

Finger gun would be interesting, I do admit

[restive river]

We don’t even know if there are other eldritch horrors to team up against yet

[tall echo]

:)

[chrome geyser]

Okay, so.

The Cavia.

Lore fragments indicate that the current roster ||is far from the first batch||, and that ||all others were brutally murdered by the Indifference (hopefully without the mercy of gaining sapience), which Dr. Entrati theorized was because they bored Wally.||

The Cavia's original purpose was to ||be sacrificed to Wally in an attempt to degenerate his newfound Sapience by making him absorb their animalistic, instinct-driven minds and hopefully overwrite the copy of Dr. E's mind that Wally had previously 'downloaded'.||

When it comes to the members we know:

• Tagfer and Minn were Endlings, since there are confirmed to be no other living Cervulites, and Dr. Entrati specifically chose them as sacrifices to the Indifference because he noted that Wally craved uniqueness. (Also worth noting that the concept art name for Tagfer was 'Eidolon Critter', suggesting that Cervulites were native to Earth's Plains before they went extinct.)

• Bird 3 might not be an Endling yet, but we sure as heck haven't seen any other members of his species in the game from WitW onward, so things don't look good from a purely cynical standpoint, especially since Dr. E himself described Bird as 'expendable'.

• Fibonacci was a complete and utter afterthought, as there are plenty of other Norg in the sea, and Dr. E literally wrote that he was only in the exocraft because the Indifference might desire more biomass to be satisfied / devolved.

Dr. E realized only too late that he was not without a conscience, and spared our cavia out of grief and remorse after their catastrophic awakening, even creating the blueprint for the Jahu Gargoyle out of hopes that he could eventually learn Voidspeech and apologize in person to them for putting them through such hellish circumstances.

What I'm thinking about is...

Man, I REALLY hope we get 100% closure on what happened to Minn.

Tagfer, bitter and heartbroken, is certain that she's dead, Fib doesn't want anything to do with the memory, and Bird, bless his instinctive, childlike heart, didn't know what death was until the Cavia succumbed to their Void Fever.

I'm not so quick to close the book on Minn, though, because while Tagfer and Fib swear up and down that the Indifference inflicted them with humanlike sapience just to gloat in their face before killing them, Dr. E suggests it was in fact just to allow them to comprehend Voidspeech so Wally could talk to them for a bit.

Wally's naturally furious at Dr. E, but he wouldn't really have any reason to kill Minn specifically.

Maybe, just maybe, Eternalism willing, there's the slightest chance that Minn's alive somewhere in the Void (or at least in the sort of resurrected second life that the Cavia are currently in, or at the very least a ghostly unlife like the Holdfasts.

[chrome geyser]

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

[smoky solstice]

I think Eternalism guarantees that Minn is alive somewhere in the Void
The Void accounts for all possible realities, so it should be a given, no? Or is it that since the Cavia are all intertwined with Void shenanigans, it's not really clear?

I'm sorry whoever I @'d, that was not intentional

Idk how it happened

Hopefully they're not a new player or something

Oh thank god it's someone in this channel

I still don't know how I @'d them but I'm very tired so likely I tapped on their name and didn't notice

[restive river]

Are you rank 5 with the cavia?

Cause they go over Minn from what I remember as you progress

[chrome geyser]

I've been through their death and rebirth, yes

[smoky solstice]

I don't remember them ever confirming any specific fate for Minn

[restive river]

Iirc they go over that then

[restive river]

I mean
She died

[smoky solstice]

I think Fibbonacci did something

[chrome geyser]

again, I mention that

[tall echo]

Isn't it heavily implied that wally granted every sacrifice sentience before killing them?

[restive river]

It was Fib’s fault technically
Though in a situation where he can’t be blamed entirely

[chrome geyser]

Also mentioned that

[chrome geyser]

As Dr. E said, the executions could have been from finding them boring

[tall echo]

That doesn't mean wally didn't grant them sentience

[restive river]

Where?

[chrome geyser]

Now I told the exploits of the Indifference to my non-Warframe-playing friends, and they all gave the same response:

'Doesn't sound very indifferent to me'

[restive river]

Also eternalism isn’t like
Accessible?

[restive river]

He’s contradictory but he is indifferent

[tall echo]

It is indifferent towards anything that doesn't directly oppose its goal

[restive river]

Eleanor tried to reach out to Russalka and got Wally instead and what she felt was indifference

[restive river]

This

[smoky solstice]

That's the thing, finally, someone else might be joining my indifference conspiracy theories, HE DOESN'T WANT US TO BE INDIFFERENT, HE WANTS US TO SHOW EMOTION, SOMETHING BIG IS COMING

[tall echo]

What

[chrome geyser]

Huh, swore I did.

Anyway Fib panicked and ended up airlocking Wally and Minn by slamming into the controls and cracking the glass of the craft (which I'm surprised he did since he's a fish in a tank)

[restive river]

From what I gathered Eleanor also suggests Wally may be a sort representation or just literally an embodiment of entropy
Though he does have goals

[restive river]

Yes
And she died

[normal mountain]

And Tagfer had to watch...
OUCH

[chrome geyser]

Wiki only says presumed dead

[restive river]

Also again eternalism isnt accessible as of present
It may be in the future tho
But the most we’ve seen in terms of accessing is Wally

[restive river]

Don’t use the wiki for lore.

[tall echo]

Wiki isn't reliable

[chrome geyser]

Unless we get a canon answer I'm clinging to hope.

[graceful swan]

Use Orokin Archives

[smoky solstice]

Ok so absolutely none of the indifference's actions scream actual indifference right, in fact the main motivation we know is revenge of some sort. So the hex finale might not be as big of a triumph as it seems because maybe the indifference wanted us to show intense emotion (love, friendship, etc). He's still in 1999, HE NEVER LEFT
Ergo, the indifference is planning something big and we stepped in a trap

That's sorta the jist of the indifference conspiracy

[normal mountain]

Wiki or not, when it comes to Warframe I'm generally of the opinion that 'it's not dead till I see a corpse'

[tall echo]

Ok but no one ever said that wally wants us to be indifferent

[tall echo]

Or the devs directly confirm it
looks at nonexistant teso

[smoky solstice]

Well, you say that but the story seems to steer us in the direction of believing this, since the main way we have fought against it is actions that are in opposition to indifference.

[chrome geyser]

Veso-R

[restive river]

Veko?

[chrome geyser]

You are doing the thing

[tall echo]

And? It's still not trying to make us indifferent

[tall echo]

Veto?

[restive river]

Venmo!

[normal mountain]

That too, I guess
Jury's still out on Alad V

[chrome geyser]

Dude has died millions of ways

[restive river]

Like yeah largely someone isn’t dead until specified but from what I gathered with the Cavia there is no presumed dead for Minn
She died

[tall echo]

Salad is too silly to die

[smoky solstice]

Well the idea behind all of it seems like it wants us to take actions that come from indifference (like letting the hex die and doing whatever with Albrecht in the hex ending).

[normal mountain]

Which is why I refuse to say he's dead until there's a corpse on-screen

Jupiter and Eris fights not-withstanding

[restive river]

He may or may not have even been on the ship

[chrome geyser]

I will die on this hill if it means there's a chance Minn is still out there

[tall echo]

It could not care less about any of those things, it just wants us to stay out of its way to albrecht

[chrome geyser]

And yes I have changed my server pfp to the Tagfer Pat glyph

[normal mountain]

Again, not dead until there's a corpse

[restive river]

I mean cool you can do that

Tbh I think its more likely that Wally may use Minn’s likeness to muck with Tagfer ngl

I’m fully expecting him to use our parents against us again

[chrome geyser]

You really are Little Duck

[normal mountain]

Reminds me of my Void Angel Minn idea

[tall echo]

Tagfer is the most competent of the cavia, that would be a very efficient idea

[restive river]

She’d need to come back a conceptually embodied version of her at her moment of death then feed from Wally’s “light”

At least, that seems to be how they are created according to what we see with the holdfasts

Gotta go off what we’ve observed :p

[smoky solstice]

Well clearly it does, because it keeps trying to convince us that that's the correct play. And that may be with the final goal of the indifference getting its hands on Entrati but it clearly knows that the way it thrives is through the indifference of people who can stand in its way.
And I mean it tries to convince the drifter a lot, something I didn't think about until today is that it seems like ALL of the duviri tablets is Wally communicating to the drifter, since when you answer all of them you get the murmur growl, not just the clearly Wally tablets. Aka, it seems like Wally is trying to show the drifter/us how bad the Orokin were.
Whatever the motivation, it wants us to act indifferent.

[normal mountain]

Idea is slowly evolving into a 'Wally forced her into it' and making the fight more like the Jordas Golem in terms of lore

Hmmm
If that did happen, it might just end up one of the most difficult boss fights to complete, emotionally speaking

[smoky solstice]

Well, that's the lame probably true reading of the lore, the conspiracy is that it actually doesn't want us to act indifferent and this is bait, but I think it's quite clearly set up that the indifference does want us to act indifferent and isn't, well, indifferent to how we act as long as we stay out of its way

Honestly though, the duviri tablet thing made me start tripping today

[normal mountain]

Great, I think I just hyped myself up for content I have no way of knowing if it'll even happen

[tall echo]

It most likely won't

[normal mountain]

Probably
But still, now I want it to

[smoky solstice]

Again, it's Wally legit trying to manipulate the drifter by showing how bad the Orokin were, almost to maybe get them to sympathize with it a little. Like all it shows is vile stuff.

One I haven't noticed before is the best conditions to contemplate Legems, and rather than what sounds like the correct spiritual way to do it, ofc the Orokin choose to shock themselves to experience some sort of high out of it. It's like you see the deviance even in the simple things.

Anyway, what made me trip the most regarding this isn't even the Drifter thing. The player-Wally connection was established via the ARG, right? So, it's clear that the Indifference is also aware of the player. And so, through the Duviri tablets, what's weirder to think about is that it's trying to convince US. Like "look at how horrid these people were" and that followed up by its monologue in the Hex quest where it lays out how the Orokin wronged it. It's like it's trying to get us to sympathize as well.

[tall echo]

Wally likes to taunt those he deems worthy of attention, but aside from that it really is indifferent, as eleanor tells us

[smoky solstice]

So why the whole monologue about the Orokin, why go out of its way to do all of it did, why has DE established a bitterness regarding how the Orokin used a part of its body to power their machines

It doesn't feel like all of it is just indifference to me

[normal mountain]

To be fair, how indifferent can one be after having their digits chopped off and experimented on?

[tall echo]

Wally is angry towards the orokin and albrecht specifically, but indifferent towards anything that isn't a potential threat to its plan

The drifter is a threat to its plan

[smoky solstice]

We would be a threat though, so I don't think it's indifferent to us

[smoky solstice]

Yeah exactly

[smoky solstice]

Well I'm just saying, there's like an emotional component to it that I think should be taken into account

[tall echo]

Wally isn't trying to make drifter indifferent, it's trying to get them out of the way

[smoky solstice]

By making it act indifferent, since that seems to be where Wally thrives

By making us act indifferent I mean

[tall echo]

Coincidence

[smoky solstice]

The drifter

[normal mountain]

Now that I think of it, he might have some resentment towards the Tenno because Rell kept him at bay for so long

Would partly explain why the Operator can't go to 1999

[tall echo]

Making the drifter just not try was the first (and easier) option, when that fails wally tries to stop them more directly

Wally doesn't "thrive" off of anything

[tall echo]

Wally doesn't have any direct issues with the tenno based on the 1999 finale monologue

[smoky solstice]

Well I wouldn't say it's coincidence but regardless, that was my point in the beginning, whatever the motivation, it is clearly very manipulative towards us and shows great attention to the drifter.
So far we have:

1. Duviri tablets - showing us how rancid the Orokin were, and even explaining itself for not saving the Drifter. So trying to get them to see just how bad the Orokin were in order to feel less upset about the indifference's motivations.
2. The whole monologue about how the Orokin used its body to power their machines to essentially wreak havoc on any planet they could get to.
3. Literally showing us how the whole reactor thing goes down, trying to make us feel like it's inevitable

All of this feels like it's actively trying to make us go in the direction of "it is what it is, let's use this situation to do what we can I guess" when we get back to the reactor. Aka indifference.

Again that's the lame probably accurate reading, not the conspiracy which is for sure what DE is cooking up in the future but you get the idea

[chilly iron]

I do want to interject one thing, we didn't need the man in the wall to tell anyone how awful the orokin are/were. Anyone not that ruling class knew they sucked.

[tall echo]

"Probably accurate reading" and then "which is for sure what DE is cooking up" is an interesting sentence

[smoky solstice]

Sure but it's phoning it in, putting the tablets in Duviri as a reminder, specifically showing all of the gruesome stuff, that murmur growl-laugh thing playing when you get the right answer as if it knows how reading that makes you feel.

[tall echo]

Can't know for sure what DE's plan is unless you're part of DE

[smoky solstice]

Yeah, I said it with irony since truthfully I believe the probably accurate version is what they're gonna play off of but it's fun to imagine

[smoky solstice]

Yeah but trying to get inside DE's head is part of the fun, right?

[tall echo]

I refuse to do any predicting because to me it just seems pointless

[smoky solstice]

Idk, it helps me understand the lore better personally, it helps for me to be like "why did DE put this in the game" for instance and to think about what they might do next to make theories about what we already know. And it's fun for me. I get it if it's not your thing, I just like it personally.

[twilit sonnet]

What is this?

This is like

The third time this has happened to me

[restive river]

Second dream teaser

[graceful swan]

Void Link Severed

Reason foreign carrier detected. Origin unknown. Suspect tracking signal.

Reinitiating dipolar connection on naval carrier.

Bow in standby for sync check and sync.

Motion compensation complete.

Selenic lensing locked.

Somatic control established.

(Margoolihs) implantation intact.

EVM (Could be reference to Eye, Vocal, Movement) status nominal.

War platform awaiting sync.

Initilizing synaptic overlay... Good night, sweet angel.

DE should really remove the text tbh

[restive river]

It should be removed after you do the second dream

And should appear earlier and more often prior to it

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[north ferry]

Either never knew that existed or never paid enough attention or time to notice it.

[cloud sandal]

maybe I'm misinterpreting the lore, but it seems like there are, to some degree, warframes operating of their own accord without a tenno, right?

[glacial bough]

There were, yes

[cloud sandal]

any theories/headcanons on how that might work or who those warframes are...?

[glacial bough]

Warframes were initially designed to work on their own

Most just turned into wild berserkers so the Orokin condemned all of them, including the few that were non-aggressive

[cloud sandal]

hmm, would you say the lore about the warframes like in the Leverian occur before that? (e.g. Lavos, Voruna, etc)

[glacial bough]

Most of them, no

Voruna explicitly can't

[cloud sandal]

ok, that's mainly what I'm thinking about, were those being controlled by tenno, or were they more like Umbra with some degree of autonomy...?

[glacial bough]

Most Leverians will be no

[blissful merlin]

“Drusus never seems to distinguish between the deeds of the warframes and of the Tenno who presumably operated them. He credits them all with autonomy and dignity. I imagine Dante is responsible for that."
-Loid

[glacial bough]

The only maybes I would give are Lavos and Ivara

[cloud sandal]

Leverian is just an example

[glacial bough]

I doubt Drusus knows there's a difference to begin with

Or the full extent of it at least

[glacial bough]

The same applies to most every frame of not explicitly said

Kullervo, Dante, and Dagath are the only ones explicitly without a Tenno

[cloud sandal]

yeah, I'm curious what lore/theories/headcanons there are about how they manage to be autonomous

[woven coyote]

how much do you remember about what warframe are?

[cloud sandal]

yes, but I'm thinking of examples of warframes seeming to operate without a tenno, AFTER the first generation was destroyed

[glacial bough]

We don't have any that implies that really

Jade is the big exception

[cloud sandal]

that might just be me misinterpreting the lore

[glacial bough]

Well, Jade and Dagath

[glacial bough]

You're not really, it's just a very 50/50 kind of thing

[restive river]

It is theorized that strong emotions can stave off the infestation from making a sapient frame from going feral
Kullervo, Stalker, Jade and Umbra come to mind
Umbra being a big one cause it was specifically planned for him to suffer by Ballas

[cloud sandal]

so, when they talk about personalities (e.g. Styanax only wonders where to find [enemies]) are like... echoes of the original, or...?

[proper barn]

Umbra is one of the last frames made and he is Sentient.

[restive river]

This could also be due to the fact that the frames are void attuned and the void does funny things when emotions are involved

[glacial bough]

You mean in like the Codex blurbs?

[cloud sandal]

yes

[cloud sandal]

ooh, true

[glacial bough]

I'd think those are just meant to be flowery language

[restive river]

Yeah

[glacial bough]

Umbra is still an exception, he's specifically built different

[restive river]

We know thanks to the KIM messages with the Hex that the idle animations are a sort of echo of who the frame used to be iirc
And since we’re basically 3D printing the frames those bits of them carry over

[cloud sandal]

him, Dagath and Jade/Stalker

[restive river]

Oh absolutely, he was made with the intention of remembering

[restive river]

No, Dagath, Stalker and Jade aren’t like Umbra

[glacial bough]

Jade and Stalker fall into the category of strong emotions

[cloud sandal]

I mean they fall into the same category of having been built differently from our usual warframes

[restive river]

Umbra was made to specifically remember something, but the others retain sapience due to strong emotions and it wasn’t intentional

[glacial bough]

Umbra is literally built differently. He had a unique transference bolt

[restive river]

Like Kullervo wasn’t built with that in mind but displays sapience to a point and his emotions were strong enough it made a whole island in Duviri and a Duvirian version of his man crush

Think of it like Umbra is produced but the others are natural

[cloud sandal]

ok that's the clarification I was trying to articulate, that they can retain some level of sentience due to strong emotions and void shenanigans

[glacial bough]

That's a plausible maybe, yeah

[restive river]

Possibly, keep in mind it is a theory based off of observations and not confirmed

The most confirmed one is Umbra but he’s a separate and special case

[cloud sandal]

I think it was confirmed, in Mirage's lore

[glacial bough]

Of the frames not explicitly said, I can also give you Titania and "Warden" as well

[restive river]

Its hard to know what frames were generation 1 and what frames staved off their ferality with strong emotions (which again, would not have been intentional)

[cloud sandal]

yeah, true

[restive river]

Like nobody asks for trauma but oop it just so happened to be the perfect thing to keep you from losing it entirely!

It is also possible, though keep in mind this is a theory, that transference bolts or the foundry process of recreating a frame nullifies any sapience whether or not their emotions were strong
The only exception being Umbra because of his specific circumstances and his special bolt (which is why I think the bolt has something to do with suppressing sapience to some degree)

[cloud sandal]

there's an idea!

[restive river]

It is def just an idea but one that I wouldn’t be surprised if true to some extent

Like a potential hole I can think of immediately is the Hex but they could also have specialized bolts or due to them being partial warframes and have much more control and sapience they can still have a bolt without it impacting them
The caveat being they can be transferred into but they can still push someone out

Which
We see
But its unknown if they have bolts

[cloud sandal]

I was gonna say, I feel like the Hex either lack bolts or have specialized ones

or maybe bolts are what allow an operator to pilot a warframe against its will

[restive river]

I suspect they may have bolts since we haven’t transferred into anyone with that level of sapience and also it seems like Albrecht was the one to control Arthur’s hand at the start of the quest (though maybe could have been us? But I doubt it as the specification of the location and language used makes me think Albrecht)

[north ferry]

I felt that whole segment was kinda strange and confusing. I'm not sure about the hand but I feel the implication is as the player gets control is where the Drifter takes over, and yet it's Arthur talking and directing. Right up until he runs into random helminth in the middle of the city... while there's one right there in the backrooms.

[stiff fable]

I think it's the other way around actually--a transference bolt ISN'T part of a normal Warframe, and Ballas added it to mess with Umbra during the Helminth process.

The Tenno can use Transference naturally, they don't need a device to let them in

[restive river]

my case is I think its required for sapient beings, not for non-sapient or supressed

[stiff fable]

I mean, the Hex don't have em

And Ballas brings up the bolt like it's special thing just for Umbra

[feral cape]

Umbra was fitted with a special bolt to let memories flow out rather than in

Behold

Also bolts arnt need and the default function of transference seems to be
Tenno->frame

[restive river]

Never specified

[jolly briar]

Kullervo and umbra are the epitome of "too angry to die"

[silk atlas]

Ignore that Umbra did in fact die.

[jolly briar]

Died of body not of soul

[stiff fable]

That's mostly a side effect of Oro holding his soul to his body...

[glacial bough]

Ordis notes that it's just a different design, not something entirely unknown. Transference bolts have to be done level of standard design or used regularly enough in regards to frames

[heavy dagger]

is lotus our mom?

[split island]

Not biologically (from what ive seen)

[digital grail]

Adoptive yes biologically no we have a photo of our mom and dad

[heavy dagger]

Thats cute

[humble sierra]

Yeah she's Space Mom. Not our biological mother, but the caregiver of the Tenno

[restive river]

Margulis was our first adoptive mother
She got killed cause Ballas is a whiny baby and can’t handle his partner having love for others
Lotus came to love us and adopted us

[graceful swan]

Lotus has more children than any character in existence

[heavy dagger]

Praise mama lotus

[old dome]

yup... & umbra is practically the only father figure the operator has ever had in their life (excluding their bio parents) if you think abt it.

or rather, wanna headcanon it as such... like i do.

[graceful swan]

Umbra never did anything a father would for us Teshin is the only father figure

[digital grail]

Teshins uncle

Umbra protected us and beat us seems father like to me

[graceful swan]

Abusive father sure

Father figure nah

[digital grail]

He has dad experience

We don't need a space dad anyway

[north jolt]

Well...maybe that depends on what kind of "father" were talking about

(Almost gets killed in a fit of blind rage before Umbra just runs off and goes missing) "Ohhhh space dad you kidder!"

[delicate bramble]

Hmmm.. I have a theory..

So, Warframes were originally people, right?
and excal umbra still has his sentience which is why he can still function without transference.

Stalker is a warframe, but it seems like he's functioning without transference like umbra can.
So... is Stalker a sentient warframe too?
[Disclaimer : I have very little knowledge on WF's lore, mostly due to bad memory, so I may sound dumb-]

[graceful swan]

Yes

[thick viper]

Stalker is indeed a sentient warframe that lost his mind after the tennos killed a lot of orokins in front of him

[lean garden]

So... is Stalker a sentient warframe too?
Yes

[delicate bramble]

oh- I guess I was paying attention then-

[thick viper]

Most of stalker lore are present in Jade shadow mission

[delicate bramble]

I was just thinking of how that quest made me feel-
-# and how it made me like Stalker even more

[graceful swan]

As long as you keep paying attention you’ll usually understand the story better

[tall echo]

Easier said than done for most players

[graceful swan]

Are you most players?

[tall echo]

No, I am least players

[delicate bramble]

As long as it isn't off-topic here (idk if it is or not)

..I just remembered how messed up Jade Shadows kinda was-

The Operator (y'know, the kid?) had to take control of Jade to help birth Stalker's child-

A child had to go through that pain- and it feels worse knowing that stuff like that can happen irl-

[old dome]

i mean,,, he did protect us & save us from an explosive beam after the operator therapized him... thats more than teshin'a cryptic ahh ever did.

umbra also has actual dad experience (granted he doesnt remember them but eh...)

[graceful swan]

And he also tried to kill us we did more for him than he did us

Now we just use him as a meat puppet

[old dome]

tbf he wouldve tried to kill anyone in a fit of blind rage & grief, not just us...

its a complicated relationship 😭😭

[graceful swan]

We brought him back to life and gave him therapy all he does now is let us use his body so by that logic we were a better father figure

[old dome]

thats a cursed thought ngl

[graceful swan]

He just happens to also be a father

That’s why Teshin is considered a father figure because he trained us when our first adoptive mother took our memory away and then again in Duviri to escape the loop which led to us winning at the end of the quest and helped us best he could in New War

That’s already more than Umbra has done for us

[tall echo]

Would that make varzia our mother considering how much she likes teshin

[graceful swan]

She never got with Teshin so nah

[restive river]

She just thinks he’s hot

I think she’s with Maroo tho

:D

[tall echo]

Another implication is that teshin is married to lotus for whatever reason

The conversations the two have remind me of my own parents tbh...

[tall echo]

Not officially iirc

[graceful swan]

Would Loid be an Uncle to us at this point?

[tall echo]

The adoptive family tree is confusing

[graceful swan]

We got 2 mothers

Well 2 Alive mothers

[tall echo]

Lotus and gomaitru?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[tall echo]

Loid would be a... grandpa

[restive river]

A girl can dream 😔

[graceful swan]

Nah Albrecht is Grandpa they never got married

[tall echo]

Can we go to albrecht in the next update and tell him that his descendants adopted us into their family

[restive river]

Grandpa and Grandpa’s boyfriend

[graceful swan]

Actually, if they did get married would Loid be grandpa?

[restive river]

Ye

[quartz sky]

Grandpa and Grandpa's boyfriend and grandpa's boyfriends boyfriend

[digital grail]

It's hinted alot

[tall echo]

It's """hinted"""(extremely obvious) that varzia really likes maroo

[tall echo]

What

[glacial bough]

I definitely wouldn't put Eularia as a mother figure to us.

[buoyant yarrow]

Man i really hope we get to hear Running Late

[high bay]

Has the phrase “run your optics over this” ever been uttered in Warframe or am I just making up phrases

[digital grail]

Yeah labal 471 said that

[high bay]

Labal 471? I feel like I’m walking into something

[digital grail]

Nah he's real underrated grineer tbh

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-metal-gear-solid-gif-14187145046150119880

[restive river]

Yes, Little Duck says it!

"If Solaris United is gonna be what it once was, things need getting done. Run your optics over this."

Its one of her greetings

[high bay]

Thanks! I don’t remember when I started regularly telling people to “run their optics over this” whenever I show someone something, but it’s been long enough to where it actually takes mental effort to not say it

[restive river]

If you ever find yourself in the situation where you need to check where a quote is from just plug it into the orokin archives and scroll til you find it
That’s how I found it so fast :)

[high bay]

Ah, thanks! I haven’t been checking the archives much because Archon hasn’t been active and last I checked the archives a few months ago, some newer dialogue wasn’t added?

[restive river]

He’s less active here but plenty active in the Orokin Archives server
He’s been busy and has been updating things

1999 is massive but he’s doing what he can
Gave the site an updated look too!

[high bay]

👀 Thanks for the heads up! I’ll be sure to peruse the site soon!

[restive river]

[smoky solstice]

so what are the lore implications for the devstream

I'm joking, I don't think they added anything, the antivirus mods don't have like a poem there, although there is one that's "ALWAYS WATCHING"

seems to imply either infested tech or Wally, not sure which is better

infested tech would be kinda funny for an antivirus, unlikely since it actually works against the coda

[restive river]

I think its just like
A nod to antiviruses watching everything you do and being scummy lol

[restive river]

Doubt it tbh

[smoky solstice]

could be but the way "ALWAYS WATCHING" is capitalized, idk, seems to go in the horror direction of this whole 1999 thing and it's likely your thing

honestly it makes no sense that it's wally related so

probably just a funny thing added

aside from that, I think there was nothing there?

I mean the qol changes had me in a perpetual state of bliss (I mean rip pseudo exalts but small price to pay) so I'm not too upset

[restive river]

Not really too much lore-wise

Biggest thing off the top of my head is the chair being added and Wally can maybe appear on it?

[smoky solstice]

yeah he can

but I don't think there's much there aside from being another thing wally can jumpscare you from

[restive river]

It’s unclear if that was a feature of the decoration or just something they did cause it was in the quest
I’m inclined to think its a feature tho

[restive river]

Agreed

Just shows he’s still present in 1999

[smoky solstice]

yeah, definitely a feature, otherwise Megan wouldn't have a line of code she could run in the dev console to trigger it lol

[restive river]

Which still hoping for 1999 fissures featuring Murmur in 1999….

[smoky solstice]

animators have enough on their plate

[restive river]

Truuue

Really hoping we get more decorations than the chair
Ik we got the dojo ones but I want more for my backroom ):

[graceful swan]

Probably will get more

[restive river]

I hope so

[smoky solstice]

that would be super interesting, although I think it's basically confirmed that the indifference is still there
like maybe they won't do it since it's kinda implied it's dormant, so adding it would actually have some implications, meaning that it's actually like there on a more substantial capacity

[restive river]

Give me pizza DE

[graceful swan]

https://tenor.com/view/hellmo-pizza-fire-creed-hellmo-pizza-fire-gif-26018511

[restive river]

True, we didnt see that much during the quest and that was the most it seemed to have breached into 1999

[smoky solstice]

I don't think they're just confined to the dojo, are they? like the vending machines and chairs definitely feel like they could be in the backroom or orbiter

[restive river]

They showed them only in the dojo and many of those are def dojo only ):

[smoky solstice]

well the big tunnels probably

but I feel like aside from that, no reason to be dojo only

[restive river]

Like the only one they showed that is def backroom is the cursed chair

I can see them giving us the pizza

[graceful swan]

Most dojo decorations don’t have a 1999 variant

[restive river]

Which
Please DE
But some stuff like from the streets? Eh???

[restive river]

Also this
Which is really really sad ngl

[smoky solstice]

like we see it's still there through the eyes, both the one showing us the date, aka the indifference is still communicating to us in 1999, and the eyes in the monitors across Hollvania, the ones in the secret hacks for the apex tank

it's like chilling there

but rn it seems like that's the most it can do

[restive river]

Those eyes are from entrati.

Like on the monitors everywhere
Thats entrati’s

I suspect a mark from him speeding up the techrot in 1998

[smoky solstice]

as I said before, I disagree with this since it appears in Wally sequences and they seem to be Wally related like visually speaking. The way it started looking at your cursor after the ARG got a good way into it, and how they were there in the part you let Wally into 1999 (or bolstered it)

[restive river]

Heck even Megan called it the entrati eye
And its in the backrooms

[restive river]

The eyes always looked at the cursor on the page full of monitors

[smoky solstice]

oh I didn't know Megan called it that, that is a big hit to my understanding

[graceful swan]

I wonder if the 1999 decorations will be sold by one of the 6 or if it will be sold by one of the 4 others

[restive river]

Also we have yet to see Wally interacting with the infestation

[smoky solstice]

nah I mean on the login page

I think it only started looking after hanging up the phone in the relay

I don't remember exactly though

[graceful swan]

Rebb hinted at us getting new decorations

[restive river]

Iirc it was always looking

The eye is related to Albrecht, Wally just used it to trick us further

[smoky solstice]

even if it was always looking, the ARG led us to helping Wally

[restive river]

Wally’s influence in 1999 isn’t as large as Albrecht’s nor has Wally interacted with the techrot.

[smoky solstice]

that still seems like something to bolster the Wally theory

[restive river]

I mean yeah
But he’d absolutely use that to trick us lol

Also the eye is literally part of the door in the backroom

[smoky solstice]

I mean there's also 60 eyes, those could be explained to be Entrati related, it's just that I'm still leaning on them seeming more Wally related

[restive river]

The eyes on the monitors are Entrati’s
The 30-60 eyes for the fragmented fight are wally

Why did Albrecht use an eye? We don’t know
But it was said to be his and makes more sense to be his from what we have seen

Especially since, again, Wally hasn’t interacted with the infestation
At least, nothing we have seen or has been hinted at

[graceful swan]

He’s got his eye on you

[smoky solstice]

the reason I don't take this as evidence fully is because I don't think that the backrooms are like safe or that somehow Wally is incapable of doing stuff to us there
the eye shows up in the quest when it's clearly Wally communicating to us (us meaning the player btw), like why would it be there if it's Entrati related? and if that sets up that the green pop up text is Wally related, then it always shows up in the backroom

[restive river]

Albrecht literally messed with the techrot, it makes more sense it’s a mark from him.

[smoky solstice]

also Wally will literally be able to spawn on the office chair

in the backroom

[graceful swan]

Wasn’t it a floof not Wally?

[restive river]

I’m sorry when did the eye pop up when Wally was communicating to us?

[smoky solstice]

it just feels weird for DE to use the eye to communicate both Wally and Entrati, so I feel like it's one or the other in all cases

[restive river]

Like the eye is present when we literally arrive thanks to Albrecht’s vessels and Loid

[smoky solstice]

"hell you're never gettting out, only 23 minutes left, kiddo" "they're all dead already", that part

[restive river]

Its both.

[restive river]

Eh, that seems more like he’s hacking the tech

[smoky solstice]

so Entrati is watching as Wally hijacked his system to observe the player?

[restive river]

The eye has been stated to be the entrati eye and def relates more to entrati
Yes Wally has eye themes but I’m going with what has been stated and shown

[restive river]

It’s hard to know if that text is like. Anything other than something the player sees

Like not the tenno
The player

[smoky solstice]

I mean if it is both, I just find it to be kinda bad visual story telling. Not like horrendous, it just feels like, especially in a game where details like this matter, you gotta showcase one or the other, or it obfuscates

[restive river]

It doesn’t seem like part of the universe, just something to illustrate and show how much time is left and how Wally is taking control of the situation
Or trying

[smoky solstice]

it's 100% just the player

I think it's intended for just the player

[restive river]

Tell that to DE
Cause why would Albrecht, the guy trying to stop Wally, make a door that literally uses that symbol?
Iirc Albrecht even signed documents with the eye symbol lol

[smoky solstice]

and the player-Wally connection has been established
tbf, the player-Entrati connection has also been established since he also communicates to us in the ARG

[smoky solstice]

well he didn't have to make it that way for the eyes to appear

[restive river]

Yup lol

Literally used the exact eye to sign documents.

[smoky solstice]

is that 100% entrati though

or a document not at least potentially hijacked in transit

[graceful swan]

Yes

[restive river]

And this was from the actual Albrecht as it was his lab, or one of them
And he shows up to make the Hex full warframes.

[smoky solstice]

hm

[restive river]

The Entrati Eye is from Albrecht.

[smoky solstice]

so the eye does seem Entrati related

[restive river]

[smoky solstice]

but why is it so creepy then

[restive river]

Idk, cause he’s creepy?

We don’t know why he uses the eye

[smoky solstice]

not only is the hex quest thing really weird if it's Entrati, the monitors all showing the eye, all of the eyes during the secret apex tank boss hack

[restive river]

Especially when it references Wally to some degree

[smoky solstice]

they make no sense, since it makes no sense for entrati to do this

[restive river]

He just uses it and that’s his mark left on 1999.

[smoky solstice]

"you don't belong here" along with a million eyes, like that doesn't seem like something albrecht would do

[restive river]

The eyes are everywhere

[smoky solstice]

my point is that the way they appear, and in particular in the secret hacks, it just makes no sense for it to be albrecht

it's like really silly if it's entrati

[graceful swan]

Ah, you’re expecting Orokin to be normal silly mistake

[restive river]

Like I see where you’re coming from cause yes Wally has an eye motif but this pixelated eye is from Albrecht specifically, though it does seem Wally used it to manipulate us

[smoky solstice]

this explanation is just not good

"oh all the characters just act randomly"

[restive river]

It makes more sense than Wally

[smoky solstice]

"not at all in accordance with how they've previously acted"

[restive river]

Wally hasn’t messed with the infestation

[smoky solstice]

no, I don't believe that they appear in places where it makes no sense because Orokin weird

[restive river]

Heck I was expecting him to team up with it
But he never did.

[smoky solstice]

well I'm saying that nothing makes sense now

and I'm not sure what to take from it

the eyes seem Wally related, they also have clearly been shown I think it's fair to say to be Entrati related

[restive river]

The eyes appear everywhere likely because of what Albrecht did, speeding along the techrot infestation in 1998

[smoky solstice]

based on the evidence you have provided, as well as Megan calling them entrati eyes

but idk, some places they appear scream Wally

the hex quest, the secret terminal hacks

make perfect sense to be Wally and no sense to be Albrecht

[graceful swan]

It’s Albrecht stuff Wally has took over

[restive river]

Ok how does the secret terminal relate to Wally???

[smoky solstice]

Wally hijacking Albrecht's communication system coudl explain the thing in the Hex quest, although it's weird that he still let Albrecht watch
the eyes being in the secret hack don't to me

[restive river]

No way to know the difference

[restive river]

The eyes are present for all communication in 1999 iirc

[smoky solstice]

like when I said "creepy", this is what I meant, they seem sinister

[restive river]

Its just part of the tech

I mean Albrecht is def playing the role of a villain to some extent to drive us towards the hex

[graceful swan]

Albrecht isn’t a good guy don’t you understand this?

[restive river]

That or just is being a villain cause

1. An Orokin
2. He himself is Indifferent to everything but stopping Wally

[smoky solstice]

and while Entrati is an ahole, I wouldn't call what he does horror movie type of sinister, more like mad scientist type of sinister with a pinch of Orokin depravity

[restive river]

Not even a pinch

[smoky solstice]

you get what I mean, like it's an ingredient added in

[restive river]

Albrecht is a terrible person
A great character but he is not a good dude

[smoky solstice]

of course, but he's not a character you'd see "you don't belong here" with sinister eyes following that from

[restive river]

Eh, the entrati eyes make perfect sense to me

Like yeah it relates to Wally and its odd he’d go with the eye but it still works

[stiff fable]

It's possible the eye is the Scaldra faction symbol

They were originally Hollvania's secret police

[smoky solstice]

also I'm thinking DE might eventually do a redemption arc for him. Like it's sorta started but like he swore off continuity (tbf for practical reasons, not moral ones so it's not a huge +1) but maybe eventually he has some like big self-sacrifice moment and has a period of reflection
based off the Entrati logs, and I could've misunderstood that part, but it seems like the reason the Orokin are so depraved is, on top of all the normal reasons immortal aristocrats would behave that way, also the fact that continuity in some way makes it so the regretful memories can be replaced by other ones, essentially making it so they don't have to look back and think about the monsters they are
which is why it would be cool to maybe see like a final moment of maybe a small amount of redemption to finish off Entrati's character arc
I'm just rambling at this point though, sorry

[restive river]

Maybe
But considering how related it actually is to Entrati
Megan calling it the Entrati eye
And the eye appearing how it does in the backrooms…

Though Scaldra does have ties to the techrot too as they were experimenting with it and made the boyband

[smoky solstice]

you know, maybe I do switch to this and just think about it like it's Wally kinda impersonating Entrati's whole shtick. That still doesn't work for the apex tank hack thing but whatever. It would be cool if the eye was in some way different though, like at a glance the same but if you look into it, it has a subtle difference, you know?

then it would for sure confirm that it's Wally doing that shapeshifting thing

[restive river]

I dont understand the whole apex tank part of your arguement

[smoky solstice]

and would be a cool visual

[smoky solstice]

ok so you've done the secret terminals at least once, right?

the ones that trigger the thing that supercharges the tank

[restive river]

Like the eye is generally visible amongst 1999 tech and the infested

[smoky solstice]

actually let me real quick record what I'm talking about

[restive river]

Yes I’ve done it
How does that relate to Wally in any way

No
I have seen it
I don’t understand the argument behind it relating to Wally

[smoky solstice]

and then I'll talk about what I mean in the video

[restive river]

Wally has no ties to the infestation

[smoky solstice]

shouldn't take me long

[restive river]

I can’t watch a video about that atm lol

[stiff fable]

Also the bonus terminal is you baiting Viktor into sending an even stronger version of the tank

[restive river]

It makes more sense we’re just mucking with the techrot to further bait him

Since the eye is amongst the techrot and 1999 tech
Likely due to Albrecht’s influence

[tall echo]

The opposite really

[stiff fable]

You use the terminals to declare a maximum alert

[restive river]

Potentially Scaldra’s but I’m inclined to say its Albrecht’s

[stiff fable]

And he goes "Fine, F U bigger tank"

[restive river]

Elaborate beyond the origin system infestation expressing fear.

[tall echo]

Is that not enough?

[restive river]

It doesn’t really show that they’re buddies

[smoky solstice]

ok I got the clip

[restive river]

Just that the infestation is afraid of a threat larger than itself

[smoky solstice]

ok so you'll see towards the end the "you should not be here" and the eyes

[restive river]

You didnt need to clip it
And again I cant watch it atm

[smoky solstice]

that's what I'm talking about

[smoky solstice]

you don't need the sound if you're in public but sure

but ok if you understand what I'm talking about

[restive river]

What part of that is Wally?

[smoky solstice]

then you'll know what I'm talking about - that it makes no sense for Entrati to communicating to us through that terminal saying "we should not be there"

[smoky solstice]

the background of the snake game where we see a bunch of eyes and "you should not be here"

[restive river]

I never said the eye means entrati is communicating to us

Just that it’s his symbol and his mark.

[smoky solstice]

ok but why would it show up here

[restive river]

How does that relate to Wally?
Explain.

[restive river]

Idk, the infestation? Scaldra’s defenses? Not Wally.

Wally has no connection to the techrot, why would he want us to not fight a more powerful tank?

Why would he even care if we fight the tank, what even points to it being Wally?

[smoky solstice]

well I think it sounds like it's more reasonable to be Wally compared to Entrati because it's basically him communicating to us that we're doing something we shouldn't in terms of triggering this secret boss. That doesn't directly relate to Wally but it also doesn't at all relate to Entrati and makes no sense for him to say, Wally coming in and doing a bit of a horror moment makes a lot more sense

[smoky solstice]

who use the eye? I mean maybe

[restive river]

I’m not saying it’s entrati saying it either :|

The eye is EVERYWHERE

It’s the mark Albrecht made

He sped up the techrot strain and now its everywhere

[smoky solstice]

so the eye is now related to Entrati, because it's his thing, Wally, because he hijacked Entrati's thing, and now Scaldra/Techrot, who are also copying Albrecht's thing

[restive river]

Thus the eye is everywhere

[smoky solstice]

wait is that what actually happened? I thought that was scaldra propaganda (or I guess Wally propaganda), I thought he administered the infestation to a select few, did he also play a hand in it getting worse in the past?

if so, he's really bad at the whole time travel thing, you're generally not supposed to make such huge changes in case it radically changes the timeline

[restive river]

No.
It’s always been Albrecht’s
Wally hijacked it once to fool us
Possibly related to Scaldra but likely not
And seen throughout the Techrot because of what Albrecht had done
It belongs to Albrecht, nobody else, that doesn’t mean that it appears and thus it’s him.

[smoky solstice]

sure, I mean I don't like that it works this way but sure

[restive river]

In a convo with Lettie she literally explains how the cure he gave out infected others, he sped up the process by disguising it as a cure and the Hex helped distribute it.

[smoky solstice]

I'd rather it be a signal to one character and that's it, rather than others also using it for various reasons

[restive river]

You expected something simple in Warframe?

Also literally only Wally is using it for other means.

[smoky solstice]

it's not that it's not simple, it's that it's purposely obfuscasting lol

[restive river]

I disagree.

[smoky solstice]

apparently also the scaldra or techrot

[smoky solstice]

like I like small details like this to be indicators of something

apparently it's an indicator to Entrati but it also appears when stuff happens that has nothing to do with Entrati directly

it feels clumsy

[restive river]

You missed the part where I disagreed with it relating to Scaldra
And it being present in the techrot does not mean they’re using it

I’m saying it appears because of what he did, it’s like a signature of his work.

The techrot isn’t willingly displaying the eye

[smoky solstice]

yeah, and for a signature, it appears a hell of a lot in places he's not really directly involved in
like it would've been cool if it didn't appear in the green text when Wally took over the mic because then it would be like "oh cool, Wally took over and now it's no longer Albrecht communicating this to us"
or "oh it appears and that means that it's been Wally communicating to us this whole time"
that feels a lot more clean and cool than "it's Albrecht's thing but Wally took over partway through"

you know what I mean?

[restive river]

I guess

I just see the eye as a general signature of his mark on 1999, both the tech itself and the techrot

It’s like the apple logo

[smoky solstice]

maybe I'll come around to your view of things

maybe I just need to digest it a little more

I've been functioning under a completely different idea of things thus far, maybe I just need time to let it settle

[restive river]

I think it’s also just possible DE didn’t think about the eye as much as you or I ngl

Its mostly just
a cool symbol that def relates to albrecht but its everywhere lol

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe visually speaking DE wanted it to be more of an indicator of 1999 in general

[restive river]

Like idk if it even makes sense for the citizens to be making art of Kalymos

[restive river]

Likely since its on the tennocon backpack, the nightwave armor and iirc was generally used to indicate 1999

[smoky solstice]

and therefore I'm overthinking these details, like as you said, Entrati made a footprint in 1999, and now it's just a thing that relates to the year

[restive river]

Ye

Sometimes we go deeper than they do

[smoky solstice]

but damn, I knew Albrecht was like a third degree ahole, but infecting a crap ton of people, how did it not radically change the timeline? like this could've very well ended with the Orokin not even existing

[restive river]

Which is okay
But there is a point to overthinking where its just. Woah

[smoky solstice]

or maybe the Orokin were inevitable since continuity would eventually be discovered and some sort of class of people would use that to subjugate the rest

[restive river]

Cause I’m not sure that’s how time works in Warframe and the event is small enough that the Orokin can continue to exist

Like we literally change history in Undercroft defense too lol

[lament stirrup]

Hollvania gets nuked out of existence without the Drifter, remember?

[restive river]

Also

What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime? A. Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist (correct)

They showed us this for a reason

[smoky solstice]

honestly I'm still not fully clear on the time travel thing, ig we haven't delved too deep into it considering that the latest quest is the only one incorporating it to a large degree, but like the Void stuff I have a grasp on, how time travel factors into everything, I got no idea. I think I sorta get the idea of the "how", since all of these events exist in some way in the Void and therefore, the ability to theoretically access them is there, I don't really know all of the implications of it though

[smoky solstice]

oh I guess yeah, there is a hint there

but that adds even more confusion to me lol, since it's not clear of what the mechanism is

maybe it's like that one piece of media, actually idk what it was, I wanna say steins;gate but maybe not, but the idea that certain events are just kinda bound to happen no matter what, like the details can change but it all eventually consolidates

although this is less the original persisting and it's moreso that the main things are just inevitable

[tall echo]

Doctor who?

[smoky solstice]

in steins;gate you can get around this though, which is why I'm not sure if that's what I'm thinking of

[smoky solstice]

definitely not, I haven't seen pretty much any of the show

maybe the idea was doctor who inspired

[tall echo]

Set moments in time that can't be rewritten are a big thing in doctor who

[restive river]

Even though they rewrite those sometimes anyway lol

[smoky solstice]

it's likely due to the age of the show and its popularity among nerds

like I think you have to be a nerd to be a writer so

[proper barn]

YO @restive river

[tall echo]

And they tend to make a big deal out of it afaik

[stiff fable]

I mean, even major moments can be changed in Warframe history, sometimes indirectly

[proper barn]

LETSGO

I was right

[stiff fable]

The golden casket in Duviri

Heck 1999 could still end with Wally breaking into reality, which is why the Drifter is keeping the loop going

[proper barn]

They changed the prime rotation so they could do this its great I love it.

[tall echo]

"The guitar wasn't weird enough"

[smoky solstice]

so why tf does Entrati come in like "hey I'm just gonna infect a whole populace of a seemingly large country (I think it's hinted to be the in-universe UK? although the name sounds German, I still haven't gotten that down) and hope nothing bad happens"

[restive river]

WE ARE WINNING

[proper barn]

I KNOW

[smoky solstice]

maybe he doesn't care, like the threat is too large so he's just doing anything

[restive river]

Yes they do

[stiff fable]

He didn't

[lament stirrup]

Because the city was going to get nuked anyway?

[stiff fable]

The techrot is the very first infestation outbreak

Albrecht time traveled there and Warframe'd a few people

[smoky solstice]

ok this is what I thought but Ducky disagrees

apparently the cure he administered actually infected people

[lament stirrup]

It turned them into asymptomatic carriers.

[stiff fable]

The cure was the Helminth strain

All of the Hex are infested, but aren't part of the hivemind or crazy

(yet)

[smoky solstice]

so if that got administered to a whole population of people, did that not cause problems

[graceful swan]

I got a cure for the Infestation
MORE INFESTATION!!!

[smoky solstice]

I mean kinda, I think Eleanor being on death's door regarding that kinda changes things

[stiff fable]

I mean, that's basically how vaccines work sooooo

Like if we could cure the Entrati family by turning them into protos they'd probably think it's a good trade

[lament stirrup]

It did cause problems.
I'm pretty sure a sizeable chunk of the flesh on the walls in techrot caves used to be people.

[stiff fable]

that's normal infestation stuff

[hoary vapor]

Whacha think of the weird theory that the 4 new protoframes are gonna be rivals to On-lyne?

[stiff fable]

as far as we're aware the Hex can't infect people, because the Helminth strain is non-transmissable

[smoky solstice]

yeah but Albrecht knows that there's no reasonable way to have a vaccine against the technocyte virus. I mena it's not like they could do it in the future. Plus, the way it's always seemed to me is that you can't fight against the infestation, including presumably your immune system, which means there's no point to a vaccine. Like the only way to not get infected is to not come into contact and that's why whole planets and moons have fallen to it

it's too rigid

[stiff fable]

that's correct

He saved a few people by turning them into protoframes

but it wasn't perfect and we don't see what happens to the other people he healed

[lament stirrup]

Well, you can "fight" the infestation. Garv and Latrox Une are walkimg around Deimos without air filters and they aren't infested.

[stiff fable]

Some succumbed anyway

Some were killed by Scaldra or the techrot

[lament stirrup]

Plus the Mycona are non tenno that use inert infestation without being infected.

[stiff fable]

The only single person who's been cured of the infestation is Alad V and his was a one-time thing

The infestation patched his cure lol

yeah that's a good point

hmm next time we need to spam chat to ask about the Vessels lol

[smoky solstice]

I mean would you say they're not infected or just that they're not all the way there

because I feel like there's a difference there

[stiff fable]

They're explicitly infected

[lament stirrup]

The infestation isn't exactly subtle. The closest it could manage to imitating an uninifected person was a child with a visibly severed head (during nightwave)

[stiff fable]

but the infestation has a bunch of different forms that it takes

Grey Strain? MAKE MY MONSTER GROW!!

[smoky solstice]

glast gambit bugged out way too much when I finally completed it today so I lack understanding on the Mycona
like I think Lotus was supposed to speak in the quest (she didn't) and Ergo Glast just sounded schizophrenic responding to ghosts
only time Lotus spoke was during the whole Anyo cheating thing

[stiff fable]

No Lotus doesn't talk

[smoky solstice]

then wtf was ergo glast on

[stiff fable]

iirc it came out around The Sacrifice so they were prepping to have her not show up

[smoky solstice]

responding to no one

[stiff fable]

I think he's supposed to talk back and forth with Nef

[smoky solstice]

oh

like I sorta gathered that the Mycona had some like infested child or something and they were in some way in-tune but with the dialogue skipping to just Ergo's lines and him sounding straight up cooky, I got nothing more than that lol

[lament stirrup]

Lotus definitly talks?

Anyway, Neewa is an infested-corpus hybrid called the Triuna. Infested fear uncontrolled hybrids, hence how the Mycona could keep them at bay.

[stiff fable]

oh lol they had Nidus as their version of Inaros

[smoky solstice]

she talks in the section where Anyo's cheating and she's like "hold on I'm trying to figure out what's wrong here"

and that's the only time I heard her

she just comes out of nowhere, like wtf, you weren't involved with any of this

[lament stirrup]

Yeah. I think your version of the quest skipped out on her dialogue. You might want to read the wiki transcript.

[smoky solstice]

yeah I should

quest sucked regardless, idk why it forced me to play 3 rounds of index like 8 times but it wasn't the worst

wasn't expecting too much from a side quest, especially an older one anyway

[stiff fable]

I loathe Index, I'd say this was one of the worst

[lament stirrup]

I have bad memories of the index because my first time I played the quest, it was with a random too stupid to pay attention to Glast when he said not to win by too much.

[upbeat glacier]

Idk why but the idea of Hunhow being a farmer makes me wheeze

[smoky solstice]

oh I missed that part too, I thought "victory margin" meant I had to go over that to win lmao

started having youtube videos in the background to help me get through it so I ended up missing some dialogue

[smoky solstice]

the lotus monologue is so cool in that mission

to this day kinda regret not picking natah but it is what it is

lotus is still fine

[upbeat glacier]

I still think it's hilarious that hunhow is a farmer

[upbeat glacier]

I chose margulis

[smoky solstice]

yeah, I have my opinion on that

specifically why I think it's the worst option, although it's a personal one

since I think it's just a personal thing that makes me feel weird

won't reiterate, I get why people chose her, it makes sense

and you get margulis' model which is a good bonus

[lament stirrup]

Since Lotus canonically has all three personalities in her mind regardless of choice, I consider them all equal.

[smoky solstice]

yeah, the whole margulis thing just always felt to me like a weird complex in her mind that's not healthy
I mean that's not how DE presents it, it's not like canon I think, which is why I think it's fine to pick for people

it would just make me feel weird

[stiff fable]

It's who she and the Tenno wanted her to be

It's perfectly fair to pick her as an aspiration to live up to

[opal token]

All three are part of who she is was and became.

The kindness of margulis was essential for the Tenno to learn more about themselves master their power and survive.

[lament stirrup]

I don't blame people for being uncomfortable with the Margulis personality since Ballas programmed the foundation of it, but Margulis-Lotus rebelled against him same as the other two.

[smoky solstice]

yeah exactly, that sounds like unhealthy to me, like you're not Margulis, you shouldn't try to aspire to be someone you're not to this degree. it's fine to have role models or someone you may want to replicate on a moral basis, but you gotta realise you're also your own person (or in Lotus' case, your own... being?)
again, not how DE presents it, so it's totally cool to pick, that's just how I see it and why it would make me feel weird lol

[lament stirrup]

Tbf, Lotus is a sentient mimic. So literally being another person is entirely natural for her.

[smoky solstice]

yeah there's also the whole Ballas manipulation part of it

[stiff fable]

I still don't quite believe that version of the story

[smoky solstice]

at the end of the day, DE didn't make any of the options like bad, at least objectively speaking

I just don't like it

it's not someone I want the lotus to think as the primary

[stiff fable]

Like, Ballas' mouth is moving, of course he's lying

[lament stirrup]

The POM 2 by Loid explicitly confirms he imprinted Margulis' personality onto Natah.

That being said, he presumably cut out her love for the Tenno, so that's all Lotus

[glacial bough]

He didn't

Ballas said Natah still wanted kids which is why he gave her the Tenno

[lament stirrup]

Why wouldn't he? The whole reason he murdered the original Margulis was because she loved her adoptive children.

[smoky solstice]

actually I think I'm honestly a little more comfortable with my option upon thinking about it more
like I remember why I picked lotus and it's because I had the opposite problem with Natah, like yeah, that is kinda what you are, but you also shouldn't focus too much on what you are, or what you were, it's also about who you want to be
lotus just felt like a comfortable middle ground, a bit of both

a healthy middle

I mean one of her core lines is "dream not of what you are but of what you want to be"

it only makes sense for her primary to follow that philosophy in some way

the Natah design though...

[glacial bough]

Because he's a narcissist that believed he had full control over her now

She may still want children, but he could ensure she always put him first

[lament stirrup]

Not the correct use of the word narcissist, but yeah. Fair point from a plot perspective.

[smoky solstice]

I think it's a fine word to use

deluded to the point where he'd think that

although I think your point is that he was kinda right

only kinda

I can't stop listening to it cures

the this is what you are drop made me pog out of my mind in the quest, it's so nice to be able to relive it in audio form

[humble sierra]

Luckily you can buy it as a skin. I prefer the name "Lotus". It's who she's been this whole time, and the only identity that wasn't forced onto her by others. Except me, now, by choosing "Lotus", I guess

I also mostly use the Eidolon Lotus skin, I like how the skins change her voice (Natah, Eidolon Lotus being heavily modulated, most other skins having a moderate level of that robotic effect, and Margulis having none)

[smoky solstice]

tbf it seems like in lore it's lotus choosing, since at this point the player wasn't taken into account
although now that they are, yeah, a little weird
didn't know there was a natah skin I could get, will get it as soon as I get to a point where I don't mind spending a lot of plat on cosmetics lmao

[humble sierra]

Yeah if you interact with the Lotus helmet in the Personal quarters in the orbiter or drifter camp, there's a bunch of options to customize her

[past halo]

Will we ever find out what On-Lyne's real names are and not their stage names?

[wintry siren]

Parvos granum would’ve made a great geologist. He ate Rubido but he made the mistake of not digesting it

Am I wrong?

[stiff fable]

pffft

[brittle siren]

Does the new wiki lore accurate yet?

[restive river]

Probably not and probably won’t be for a bit

I’m gonna stick to the archives
If it ain’t broke dont fix it

[brittle siren]

I mean it updated 1999 content too

Someone invite GreyArchon to be one of the admin of the Wiki

[upbeat glacier]

Dumb question

Are grineer and corpus grunts stronger or weaker then modern humans (our universe)

Like let's say a Grineer and a corpus grunt vs 2 Marines (whatever country)

Like could a regular human with or without training throw hands with either faction grunt

[woven coyote]

I feel poor grey might be overworked as it is lol

[restive river]

Stronger than the average regular human

The corpus have tech
The grineer are just stronk

[upbeat glacier]

Correct me if I'm wrong

The corpus feel more streamlined and sleek and tend to favor tactics

While the grineer seem more barbarian like and seem to favor brute forcing it

[north jolt]

Technically the grineer also have tech, but its like tech to keep your arm from falling off, or to replace the eyeball that did fall out :p also very crude compared to Corpus

[swift steppe]

whos stronger between corpus and grineer tho

[north jolt]

Like physically? probably Grineer

Despite having more crude tech, they tend to do A LOT more cybernetic augmentation and full on replacement of body parts + genetic engineering and all that. Even with clone rot, they could probably snap your average Corpus crewman in half

[restive river]

Yeah, i mostly mention the corpus’ tech cause its way better :p

[north jolt]

But besides scorpions and berserkers, everyone just shoot each other anyways

In universe Grineer would also have the better melee units. Axes and machetes and gauntlets vs. glorified shock batons

[swift steppe]

i see i see

but arent the grineer like brainwashed???

[north jolt]

Brainwashed and they suffer "clone rot" (basically inbreeding in a sense)

[swift steppe]

like if we thunk about kahl he just breaks the brainwashing idk who does to the grineer and now he is our friend

and what is his relationship with blue girl its very ambiguous imo

[north jolt]

But even with the clone rot, they're pretty physically capable

[swift steppe]

oh.

thats... gross?

[north jolt]

Its not LITERALLY inbreeding, but its a similar effect

Very limited genetic material to clone from and repeated use of that same material over and over and over again causing hereditary problems

[swift steppe]

ahh its alright then lol

yeah that makes sense

[north jolt]

But I think Kahl and "daughter" are just formal allies. I forgot exactly how they met tbh

But they mostly just help each other out

[swift steppe]

yeah shes also very sweet with him honestly their bond is very cute to me even if its just formal

oh also ive always wondered if we saw the entrati family before they got infested im really curious to see what they looked like

i mean they probably looked the same but... not infested obviously lol

[north jolt]

Tbh probably not that much different then they do now

Smaller, less infested

[swift steppe]

yeah

ive also never really understood the zariman people like holdfast i dont rlly understand their story

[north jolt]

How far are you into the main campaign? did you at least make it to Whispers in the wall yet?

[swift steppe]

are they dead? like are they ghosts?

[swift steppe]

im done with everything beside frame quests im just not understanding some things here and there because of my smooth brain

[north jolt]

@restive river can probably explain that better, but simple answer is yeah they're ghosts, in a sense. Easiest way to think of it

[swift steppe]

mh i see

[north jolt]

Okay so Albrecht going by the cut scenes would be the exception. Obviously he never became infected with the infestation (maybe we travelled back before Deimos got taken over or before Son accidently exposed the other family members?) and he seemingly did not get the typical body modifications other Orokin elite have

[north ferry]

Yeah. It's kinda hard to figure out the story unless you actively sit down and put the pieces you're given over time together. Or you've progressed through fast enough that it's more cohesive.

[swift steppe]

yeah he doesnt look like them at all

[swift steppe]

the only piece of story ive actually sat down and tried piecing together is warframe1999 one LOL

[north jolt]

Least as I understand the Zariman lore, they did die at some point, but they did not stay dead. weird void shenanigans and eternalism blah blah blah somehow brought them back as, more or less undead beings bound to the ship

[swift steppe]

thats actually very sad

[north ferry]

Yeah, tbh, I think that's why they've put so many clarifications in 1999 because it's a anchoring storyline.

[north jolt]

Maybe one could theorize that the guilt they felt over their actions prior to death allowed some kind of self-conceptualization to occur, in a way giving them a "second chance" to atone for their actions by helping the tenno

[north ferry]

As far as I know they're not nessicarily 'force tied' to the ship, but they've made a purpose and home for themselves.

[north jolt]

Either physically or just symbolically, they are tied to the Zarimen

Even if they could leave, they probably wouldn't cause then who's going to help the Tenno in fighting the void angels lurking on the ships and all of the other factions meddling there

[north ferry]

Yeah. It seems like the 'self' is basically capable of self actualization. Is a lesser extent than a lot of the other persist characters, like Operator or Eidelon.

[swift steppe]

makes sense

[north ferry]

The 'conceptually enbody' themselves in a way, at least as I understand it.

Like ghosts, as it's often put, pretty much.

[north jolt]

Basically racked with so much guilt and regret that through void-magic stuff they allow themselves "one more chance" to make things right

[swift steppe]

that's depressing

[north ferry]

Never particularly thought of it that way.

[swift steppe]

whats up with the tau system then

[north jolt]

The void does operate on intense emotional energy after all

[north ferry]

On the contrary, pretty sure like a lot of the story lines, it's meant to be more hopeful and optimistic.

[north jolt]

I think overall Warframe's story is bitter sweet. A lot of dark and depressing elements to it, bordering on grimdark, but there are rays of hope that shine through

[north ferry]

Tau's the mystical promised land at this point, we know no or few inherent features about it that makes it in anyway unique.

[swift steppe]

do you think they will explore this part of the story one day like give us another solar system or whatever its called and its the tau one idk if it makes sense

[north jolt]

While the situation the holdfast are in IS a sad one, its also a new opportunity for them, not to change the past or undo whats been done but to help us work torwards a better future and towards saving the system and its current inhabitants from the threats in the void

[swift steppe]

well when you say it like that this is very sweet yes

[north jolt]

They're an essential force in our fight against Wally, even if for now they aren't the main focus of the story like the Hex are

[lean garden]

They probably will with the way they've mad it sound like albrecht is running off to tau

[north ferry]

I mean it seems to be leading that way, otherwise its a big narrative chain around the story's neck, in the same way Man in the Wall and Void was. but there's still not much

[swift steppe]

wally is the dude thats says hey kiddo right?

[north jolt]

The Man In the Wall, yeah.

[north ferry]

Yeah, Wally, Man in the Wall, Indifference.

[swift steppe]

ok just making sure cause he got a lot of name for idk what reason

[north jolt]

A**hole that cant jumpscare me anymore now that Im in the backroom

[swift steppe]

i see i see

[restive river]

Conceptually embodied memories of the crew at the time of death, void ghosts that just feed to survive
Feeding off the finger results in angels
Feeding off us results in them just existing
Though we must help them regain their memories via supplying void angel feathers

[north ferry]

Because it has no name it seems to give itself, they're all names given to it by other people.

[restive river]

Basically ghosts

[swift steppe]

yes he can with the evil chair that will be added in the new uh i forgor how its called in english

[north jolt]

Yay I was close!

[swift steppe]

new update

[restive river]

[swift steppe]

oh i see

[north ferry]

The backrooms

[restive river]

Notably Wally and Albrecht came up with almost the same exact name

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/sure-john-cena-are-you-sure-gif-5783187

[north jolt]

I dont know how relevant this actually is, but on some branches of occultism and demonology to know a entity's name is to both understand its true power, but sometimes it also gives you power over that entity in question

[restive river]

Wally in the funny chair:

[swift steppe]

lmaoooo

[north jolt]

Good thing Im never installing that chair!

[swift steppe]

XDDDD

[restive river]

I am
I kinda miss my spooky roommate

[swift steppe]

same

[restive river]

Gonna give him front row seats to knowing what love is

Time to smooch Eleanor

[north jolt]

Somehow being able to "know" Wally might end up being an essential part to defeating him. Maybe

[north ferry]

Typically not been jumpscared by him any more. Been startled once or twice but eventually you get used to him and just brush him off.

[swift steppe]

i still dont have quincy in the backtooms when it says we dating he calls me babe and all but the kim says we best friends 💔💔

not cool

[north ferry]

All good

No need to rush things.. you have eternity after all..

[north jolt]

Albrecht tried to understand the indifference, but only through a cold and materialistic scientific lens. The only true way to "know" the indifference might be to understand it on a more esoteric and subconscious level. Or could just be making sh*t up!

[swift steppe]

true

[north ferry]

I mean, dont know about either of those.

[swift steppe]

im just way too hyped up by everything new in the game ☹️

[north jolt]

Its just a thought, going back to the occult/demonology idea earlier

[swift steppe]

nah we have to jumpscare him back

[north jolt]

I wonder what would happen if a tenno tried transferring into Wally, just for the hell of it?

[swift steppe]

never thought of that they might just die?

[north jolt]

I dont think its even possible, but as a thought experiment

[swift steppe]

i wanna say something but it might be a spoiler so i wont

[north jolt]

If it doesn't outright kill them, might just gigafry their brains with near infinite cosmic knowledge

[north ferry]

I don't know if there's a 'thing' you can transfer into, and honestly it would probably go both ways. To know the void is to become the void.

[swift steppe]

wont feel good for the tenno

[restive river]

Its not really the same but Eleanor did connect with Wally
It was not a fun time

[north jolt]

I kind of eluded to this before, but least right now I can actually kinda see the story going in the direction of forcing empathy onto Wally and thus making him relent. Just a game theory tho

[north jolt]

For like a split second and was overwhelmed with existential dread

[restive river]

Yup!

[swift steppe]

thats what i wanted to say lol

[restive river]

It felt nothing but indifference for her and was happy about her feeling crushed

[north jolt]

Like we already seen the Drifter being able to project memories and possibly emotions onto others, albeit only humans so far. But being able to do that to a being like Wally would be pretty damn busted

[north ferry]

I feel like it could be argued the Indifference's true name I Albercht Entrat.

[swift steppe]

wait what when did they do that

[north jolt]

In 1999 when driftor basically forced a bunch of memories into Authur's head

Plot convenient way to bring him and the other Hex up to speed

[restive river]

Thats just a product of transference

[north jolt]

Actually screw it, new ultimate theory

[swift steppe]

OH oh yeah ok i remember now

[north jolt]

Conceptually embody a gun that kills Wally, THE END

[swift steppe]

REAL

[restive river]

Remember Umbra?
His bolt basically did the reverse of what transference normally is like
His memories and feelings went into us
Normally its the other way around

[north jolt]

Yeah and like I said earlier, I dont think it would even be possible for tenno/drifter to transfer INTO Wally, but it would be pretty busted if that was somehow possible

[swift steppe]

damn that would be crazy

[restive river]

Totally just gotta slap a bolt on the entity that may or may not have a true form

[north jolt]

Wait, did Authur even have a bolt? presumably installed without Albrecht mentioning it?

[restive river]

It’s never stated if the hex have a bolt or not

[swift steppe]

why everybody calling arthur authur genuine question is it like the autocorrect on phones?

[restive river]

I theorize they do as I don’t think transference is possible on sapient creatures of that level without a bolt in place

[north jolt]

Rffer

[north ferry]

As I understand transferrence is by default a blurring/merging of the self, in the same way the Tenno could understand the OG Warframes, the same way Operator and Umbra share their emotions. If anything I think the bolt is an addition to the process, instead of allowing it.

[swift steppe]

what does that mean

[north jolt]

Cause there are other things too like the Orowyrms which IMO wouldn't really make a whole lot of sense for them to even have transferrene bolts? unless some Orokin just really wanted to be dragons

[restive river]

It is the exact way the tenno understood and helped the frames and was discovered before the bolts and somatics were ever a thought

[restive river]

Lower sapience, transferrable

[swift steppe]

so we could transfer in our doggi and kiti then?

[restive river]

My theory is beings with lower sapience can be transferred into but beings with higher sapience cannot be transferred into, at least not as easily

[north jolt]

Even while one of the Duviri characters are inhabiting it?

[restive river]

In theory, we transfer into the maw

[north ferry]

I feel we have no real evidence of that either way.

[north jolt]

Or become it, I guess

[swift steppe]

ttrue

[restive river]

The orowyrms are those characters but they’re completely overcome with emotions and don’t seem to really be in control

Heck some of them thank us for helping them

[north ferry]

We persumably can't/don't transfer into other sapient beings because a. they reget us and b. its a horrible thing to do.

[swift steppe]

how do you know that

[north jolt]

I wish they would thank me by dropping more pathos clamps :v

[swift steppe]

real

[restive river]

When we beat them and they leave they say different lines
Iirc one of them says thank you?

[swift steppe]

yeah but they are dragons they cant talk?

[north ferry]

The duviri pardox quest does frame things quite a bit about overcoming the emotion in yourself iirc.

[restive river]

But they do
Cause they were the courtiers, just transformed by intense emotions

[north ferry]

They do as the communications pop ups while fighting them.

[restive river]

I mean yeah thats kinda the point of the story

[north jolt]

A lot of things lately have been heavily centered around emotions, so whatever exactly happens I think at least A aspect of defeating Wally will also involve emotions

[swift steppe]

who is bonbastine then idk how its spelled sorry

[restive river]

He represents and suffers from envy

[swift steppe]

either way it helps me understand a lot of things in myself ngl

which is ironic

[swift steppe]

oh ok the duviri story is still very weird to me i dont understand it all correctly

[north ferry]

My point is it is both dealing the Drifters emotions as the same thing as dealing with the Courtier's emotions.

[north jolt]

Zarimen revolving around guilt, regret and wanting to atone. Duviri revolving around self restraint and control, being aware of and managing your emotions. 1999 revolving around love and empathy

[north ferry]

Its fine if you don't understand, it is very weird and confusing.

[restive river]

It exists to teach the kids how to deal with their emotions so they don’t suffer if exposed to the void
It failed ofc
But the point of the story seems to be to try and keep your emotions under control and in check

[north jolt]

I think in some way its narratively going to come full circle once the Wally arc comes to a formal end

[north ferry]

Murmurs also about love and empathy.

[swift steppe]

this is so real i have to figure this all out so i can explain the story to my friend correctly

[restive river]

Which to an extent we also see Drifter do though they’re apathy comes more from wanting to leave, being denied that and stuck in a time loop thanks to their ex bestie

[swift steppe]

yeah thats what i understood

[north jolt]

Tbh the best way to explain the story is not to. The lore and narrative has been developed and fleshed out over the course of several years, not really something you can just condense into a easy synopsis while covering EVERYTHING relevant to the main plot

[swift steppe]

i dont wanna do a little synopsis tho i wanna ruin his mind with lore

[north ferry]

Yeah, the Drifter is in the emotion spiral gasp of Apathy but thankfully an outside force interferes to help pull them out of it..

Most stuff up to the end of New War is relatively easier to explain.

[north jolt]

Space ninjas take down evil empire they use to work for, go into a coma, system falls into chaos while they sleep but eventually they return to set things right

[swift steppe]

hes a destiny player he keeps saying what are the other classes he deserves to be drowned in absolute confusing lore LOL

[north ferry]

But a lot after that becomes very Vibe based.

[north jolt]

We sure you aren't also a eldritch entity?

[swift steppe]

dont worry about that

for the moment the only lore that makes sense to me is 1999 and its because it came out while i was playing the game

not like a 4791297384025 years before i started the game

and its very confusing overall

and i kind of forgot things

[north ferry]

Yeah, that is an issue I have, a lot of the smaller story details that cropped up in events got lost over time. Most of them don't cover the big picture though.

[swift steppe]

i guess so

[north ferry]

Its alright, if you need any help we are here.

[swift steppe]

thats very kind

when i ask a kind of stupid question im always a little scared ill get absolutely demolished lmaooo

[north ferry]

As long as you're willing to hear the answer, should be fine. Most of the time no on jumps in on a question.

[swift steppe]

i see i see

[brittle siren]

so Lavos is the first ever warframe smart enough to Prime himself

(or maybe one of the snake help him)

[swift steppe]

what wdym

[feral cape]

What

[swift steppe]

if thats true thats actually crqzy

aint no way its true

[feral cape]

Fascinating

[swift steppe]

his only skill issue is being too strong and intelligent

[brittle siren]

yeah he basically "fine I will do it myself"

[swift steppe]

thats CRAZY isnt ballas the one priming everyone for no reason???

[brittle siren]

and Entrati with Xaku Prime, but yeah

[north ferry]

Considering Primes kinda just break lore.

[cosmic ridge]

Isn't the snake on Lavos' arm a Orokin?

[swift steppe]

oh i didnt know that

[feral cape]

No they dont

[swift steppe]

wdym

[swift steppe]

idk but its cute snaki

[restive river]

It’s a theory
A very good one thats all but confirmed

[cosmic ridge]

Pretty sure the "cute snaki" was a huge Orokin a*shole

[restive river]

Iirc one is Javi?

[cosmic ridge]

Tbf most Orokin are

[feral cape]

Nope

[restive river]

He didnt turn any orokin into snakes

[feral cape]

The snake is an alchemist shunned by the orokin and sentenced to execution

[restive river]

He did turn Javi into one after he turned him to goop

[restive river]

Was he not an Archimedean?

[brittle siren]

well Entrati family did it with Ballas or not, they still help making Xaku Prime

[feral cape]

Well i mena he mightve been

Its also accurate to say he's an alchemist

[feral cape]

This is my evidence for kullevero priming himself by literally ripping the flesh from other prime flames

[cosmic ridge]

Ah

[restive river]

Not confirmed but yes the Entrati most likely had a hand in Xaku as a whole
The original is from their void expeditions
Their ability names have to come from the Entrati, possibly Albrecht
With the Prime included, especially because of the matching obols iirc

[feral cape]

Its gonna happen and I'm gonna be right and it'll be peak

[swift steppe]

wdym.. its just a cute snaki ☹️

[restive river]

Ok I hope that’s what they do cause that goes hard

[cosmic ridge]

Kullevero Prime better be just Julius Caesar.

[brittle siren]

Imagine the Warden is actually help Kullervo do that (by the order of Thrax)

[cosmic ridge]

Give him a roman gladius too

[brittle siren]

idk how smart the Warden compare to real Ballas though

[restive river]

I can also see Kullervo Prime coming from Kullervo conceptually embodying himself into it since he is one of if not the only warframe that conceptually embodied something

[swift steppe]

what is warden like the one in minecraft???? what

[restive river]

Not to say that’s a power he has but he is in the void

[cosmic ridge]

Real Ballas? Anything in the void is as real as the universe outside the void.

[restive river]

Warden is Kullervo’s mancrush Ballas recreated as a Duvirian, he keeps watch over him in his hold cause Kullervo blames himself

[restive river]

The Warden very much so is not Ballas though

More how Kullervo viewed him if anything

[brittle siren]

I mean in comparision, we know that the Warden just Kullervo made up

[swift steppe]

mancrush means that he loved someone right?? im not english native sorry

[restive river]

Yes, Kullervo had a crush on Ballas

[swift steppe]

alr hes weird im not sorry

[north ferry]

Protea is a one of a kind frame made for Parvos, has a prime variant. Xaku is a pile of other frames made from scraps, has a prime variant. Harrow, Revenant, Valkyr default frames are they're shaped by interim events but still have primes. Unless a frame like Caliban or Dagath don't get prime its going to be strange.

[restive river]

Cause Ballas?

[north ferry]

Anyway I'm late to replying the conversation has moved on.

[north ferry]

Wait what?

[swift steppe]

yes why ballas of all people

[restive river]

Idk, I think it says in his story but I don’t remember
Poor guy just has bad taste in men lmao

[north ferry]

Because Ballas is a manipulative slimeball.

[restive river]

Yup!

[swift steppe]

yeah real bad taste even

[restive river]

The worst

[swift steppe]

alr this makes sense but still wth!!

[restive river]

Even if he crushed on Albrecht it wouldn’t be as bad lmao

[swift steppe]

this is so real

[restive river]

And Albrecht sucks too

But Ballas?
Whole other level

[swift steppe]

yeah but albrecht isnt ugly

[north ferry]

I thought Kullervo was condemned by Ballas the executor and thus why Ballas represents the Warden.

[restive river]

Manipulation is arguably worse to an extent than being so indifferent to everything else you sacrifice anything you can

[restive river]

LMAOOOO REAL

[restive river]

I mean yes but he also was crushing on him

[brittle siren]

I mean Ballas basically guilt trip Kullervo 7 times and he was banished to the void
(also he maybe one of the warframe able to maintain his mind even after becoming a warframe)

no wonder Kull so obsessed, he def has M blood

[swift steppe]

being incredibly ugly and disgusting is also a crime in my book anyways! hear me out on albrecht now

[brittle siren]

he literally has dagger all over his body

he want this

[swift steppe]

what is M blood

[lean garden]

Protea is a one of a kind frame made for Parvos,
And who made protea for parvos? Ballas. The guy who could easily make a prime version for himself using the design parvos provided
Xaku is a pile of other frames made from scraps
Nothing stopping someone from taking the result of xaku and priming that design (looking at you albrecht)
Harrow, Revenant, Valkyr default frames are they're shaped by interim events but still have primes
Harrow and Valkyr fall into the lovely category where "it is entirely possible to have a prime version be developed from a design that the orokin possessed this whole time".

Revenant is the only one that deliberately has some funky wunky business. Some say the void spat him out, some say the unum made him. Both are plausible causes.

Unless a frame like Caliban or Dagath don't get prime its going to be strange.
Caliban was made in the old war. Nothing stops ballas from one upping erra out of spite and pride. Dagath roams the system at some point, nothing stops the orokin from picking up the frame's final design and priming it

[north ferry]

I have a theory that Albrecht has psychopathic traits.

[brittle siren]

S&M but dont search if you under 18

[swift steppe]

im scared explain to me please

[restive river]

Kullervo does experience high emotions which does seem to be the catalyst for retaining sapience against the infested
Problem being he’s so tied up in those emotions

[swift steppe]

i wonder why...

[restive river]

masochism /j

[swift steppe]

OH

[brittle siren]

basically torture but both side like it, S is the one who do it, M is the person who get it

[north ferry]

Debatable

[restive river]

I theorize frames can retain sapience via high emotions due to being void attuned

[swift steppe]

why are the frames freaky in some ways i swear

[restive river]

The devs are as freaky as the community

[swift steppe]

jesus

[brittle siren]

Ballas like hot men and women and used them

[swift steppe]

yeah well we can see that with lotus LMAO SORRY

its so disrespectful bruh

[north ferry]

They're literally biological machine viruses infested into humans by a horrifying regime. Of course they're freaky.

[swift steppe]

ok well that makes sense but still ballas is ugly and albrecht hear me out

whats yall biggest hear me out in warframe

[north ferry]

Ballas was a horrible person, the Orokin as a whole were horrible people.

Uhhh, I'm no answering that.

[brittle siren]

Jade

[swift steppe]

LOL ok

[swift steppe]

LMAOOO alright i can see it

[brittle siren]

(not me ofc)

[swift steppe]

true

[brittle siren]

someone even said Sirius/Orion but when they grew up

[swift steppe]

? call the cops

[lament stirrup]

The Technocyte Coda

[swift steppe]

?? same.

[brittle siren]

tbf the child hyphenated for thousands of year

[north ferry]

Uhhhh

[brittle siren]

but yeah call the cop, if they even exist

[north ferry]

Anyway!

[swift steppe]

my friend said the little thingies that flies and attack you in deimos 💀💀💀

[swift steppe]

what does hyphenated mean

[brittle siren]

they have tentacle so

[brittle siren]

autocorrect is killing me

[swift steppe]

LMAOOO what

[north ferry]

Hibernated I think.

[swift steppe]

oh