lore-discussion

[slim osprey]

I don’t think I fully understood it but it was really depressing and I was so scared they were gonna just shoot Stalker and the Corpus would take the baby

[stiff fable]

Oh boy. Go visit Teshin in any relay

[lament stirrup]

Its not clear of Hunhow still cares enough to carry out the whole "genocide on humans" things. He seems to have gone on a depressive spiral from realising both of his children genuinely hate him, zero brainwashing involved.

[restive river]

my bet is they're in that tower in the skybox that's totally a reference to the tower from half life 2

[stiff fable]

Take three steps to his left and look at what's in front of the graves now

[slim osprey]

Hunhow the mental health icon ig- I’m more surprised the Tenno isn’t still actively trying to stop him

[slim osprey]

…I just logged off since it’s 1am and now I’m scared of what I’m gonna see when I check that in the morning

[stiff fable]

Yeah uh

[lament stirrup]

With Erra, followed by Pazuul, taking control of the sentient fleet there's nothing Hunhow can do that needs stopping.

[slim osprey]

Wait is Tenshin the dad..? Is that what you’re implying

[scenic fossil]

Hunhow doesn't even do anything,

[restive river]

space uncle

[scenic fossil]

Hes just chilling in the cave depressed

Now without Stalker

So even more depressed

[stiff fable]

Let's just say that this is the third time DE pulled the trick of making you loathe a certain person even more than you originally did

[restive river]

Wally is our space dad

[stiff fable]

heck no he's not my real dad

[scenic fossil]

More like daddy

[restive river]

he's Drifter's dad
Operator's uncle

[stiff fable]

He's the guy in the van offering me candy

[scenic fossil]

sugar Void daddy

[restive river]

okay varzia

[scenic fossil]

I do find Maroo hot, but not Teshin

[stiff fable]

Maroo?

[restive river]

Maroo and Varzia are cute ngl

[stiff fable]

I get that actually

[restive river]

they should kiss

[slim osprey]

Idk why but that makes him signing off his email as “the great and terrible Hunhow” oddly cute

[lean garden]

He remains the great and terrible hunhow

[scenic fossil]

I mean he didnt even stand up

[restive river]

hey Bau

how powerful is Hunhow's rib

[stiff fable]

He's paraphrasing himself which is whew

[slim osprey]

…are we supposed to not like Tenshin or do you mean someone else-

[stiff fable]

No Teshin's great

[lean garden]

Tastes good, would recommended in a mcrib

[restive river]

[slim osprey]

Was so scared I missed something lmao

[mortal merlin]

It's just sad that Shadow didn't recognize Jade right away.. and it's already too late when he did..

[scenic fossil]

Rib of a sentient turned into a bow

[lament stirrup]

If they ever add a sentient syndicate it would be incredibly based if the hub area Hunhow's body so I can finally be inside him.

[stiff fable]

The place where he hangs out is a graveyard for his fallen (dax?) friends and others killed during the Orokin Collapse

[scenic fossil]

We are getting Tau system so they must lol

[restive river]

maybe
unconfirmed

[stiff fable]

lol imagine that the Sentient syndicate is actually sentinels

[restive river]

it may literally just be one planet ngl

[scenic fossil]

It would suck unimaginably

[restive river]

we shall see

I'm sure they'll cook no matter what ngl

[scenic fossil]

Imagine DE just make a small open world quest for Tau and that's it......

[stiff fable]

just itty-bitty drones with big personalities and a fondness for Dia de los muertos and sportsball

[scenic fossil]

Ill just delete wf at this point

[feral cape]

I remain: the great and terrible hunhow.

[lament stirrup]

Getting depressed at theoreitcal realities isn't healthy.

[stiff fable]

especially when there's so much to be depressed about IRL heyooo

[scenic fossil]

Its called low expectations

I am depressed enough

[mortal merlin]

Isn't shadow originally a soldier as well like teshin? or a guardian?

[scenic fossil]

Guardian

[lament stirrup]

He was a low temple guardian.

[stiff fable]

Low Guard

[lament stirrup]

The devs have yet to explain what that actually is.

[scenic fossil]

Of orokin, slept with Jade
Both got oofed by balls

[scenic fossil]

They did....

[slim osprey]

Ok so want to make sure I understood the storyline of Jade Shadows tho- okay so Stalker and Jade were together before they were used as warframe experiments and were together. They were going to have a kid when they both were turned into frames. Jade was struggling to live since and Stalker was trying to keep her alive even as he lost his sanity because he cared about her and the child… I think, I played this at like midnight and have covid so I’m worried I totally misread it lmao

[stiff fable]

It's basically "Star Wars Stormtrooper"

[scenic fossil]

They are guards of Orokin

Thats it

Higher than Daxes but still low

[lament stirrup]

Really? Where?

[scenic fossil]

Entrati labs computer

[stiff fable]

The short version is that the Orokin had rules about working for them. Number 1 was "no relationships other than 'being someone who works for the Orokin' "

[mortal merlin]

hmm there are some gaps on your understanding

[stiff fable]

Jade and Sorren broke that rule and their punishment was being Warframe'd

[scenic fossil]

Hence the multiple tenno i was blabbing about

[lament stirrup]

I assumed Jade and Sorrens relationship was forbidden because they were from different castes, not because the Orokin were doing an enforced celibacy thing.

[mortal merlin]

forbidden love

[lean garden]

Pom-2 says where low guardians rank?

[stiff fable]

No relationships more important that your service to the Orokin

[scenic fossil]

Well since Daxes are straight up with Tenno

[stiff fable]

They were already coworkers

[scenic fossil]

"Omg they were roommates"

[slim osprey]

So Romeo and Juliet typa deal… wait what’s the child then if they turned her into a warframe while she was pregnant..? Is the child a Tenno or some weird new thing?

[scenic fossil]

[mortal merlin]

it's like a peasant loving a noble

[lean garden]

Ah they dont

[stiff fable]

Their punishment for falling in love was being Warframe'd. Sorren was returned to his position as a low guard

[lament stirrup]

The childs a new thing.
Tenno are specifically children that survived the Zariman Incident ans gained void powers.

[stiff fable]

that was more Dagath

[scenic fossil]

Dude, its a question the quest made specifically

Its a new life

No one knows

[slim osprey]

Sorry-

[stiff fable]

The Orokin had a SUPER strict "no relationships" rule

[mortal merlin]

Shadow and Jade's baby is a miracle it's basically impossible

[scenic fossil]

Also, do we have a lore on Jade light??? What the hell is that thing

[lament stirrup]

Its a disintegration ray as far as I can tell.

[stiff fable]

Molecular decomposition beam

blows you into your component atoms

[scenic fossil]

Mmmmm a mega death ray

[lament stirrup]

Yonta refers to execution by it as an "honor" so presumably its relatively painless.

[stiff fable]

that's why they didn't use it on Javi, the alchemist

They were worried he'd be able to survive it

[lament stirrup]

At least, the executions are. The Eximus meanwhile...

[scenic fossil]

Eximus genocide when?

[lament stirrup]

I'm inclined to say the alt fire of Jade's glory is the closest we've gotten to an in-game demonstration of Jade Light.

[scenic fossil]

I really wanna see how they are produced

Aside from gameplay mechanic thingy

[mortal merlin]

it's sad their first encounter Sorren doesn't know who Jade is...

[stiff fable]

@slim osprey so yeah really fast version, Jade was pregnant when she was Warframe'd and the baby was Warframe'd with her, but ended up stuck since Warframes are a "one per" deal. Jade had to sit and transfer her energy to the child for over a thousand years to properly give it to life

[scenic fossil]

Hey, atleast now he's almost immortal edgy assassin

[stiff fable]

It's super messed up because he basically doesn't know who he is at that point. He's just failed to warn the Orokin, and then one of the Tenno goes to kill him, only for Jade to grab him and run

[mortal merlin]

yea he lost himself it is messed up

and ballas kept taunting jade for her failure to birth the child.

[stiff fable]

And then as soon as Jade gets him to her lander and orbiter she decides to go into stasis

[strange plinth]

inability, not necessarily failure

[stiff fable]

And she can't tell him what's going on

[scenic fossil]

Imagine DE adds a talking warframe (not protos)

[stiff fable]

Because Warframes can't speak and there isn't enough of him left to read a message

So how long did Stalker and Jade drift alone together on a void-cloaked ship?

[scenic fossil]

Years?

[mortal merlin]

yea coz she need to pour her energy onto the baby

[scenic fossil]

Centuries?

[glacial bough]

Well, they can technically a la Stalker. Most just aren't really left capable

[stiff fable]

Right, and how long did it take for enough of Sorren to recover for him to become the Stalker?

[lament stirrup]

According to Stalkers codex entry he was awake through the entirety of the Tenno's cryosleep.

[scenic fossil]

Ask ballas

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-quite-zesty-yummy-delicious-amazing-food-tasty-gif-14523968

[mortal merlin]

why did sorren hate the tennos again?

[lament stirrup]

Which can't have been a positive for his mental health.

[scenic fossil]

1. They kill his bosses
2. He's brainwashed

[stiff fable]

He hated us for destroying the Orokin Empire and throwing the system into chaos

[lament stirrup]

From his brainwashed perspective, the Tenni were seperating him from saving his wife and child.

[stiff fable]

The Empire was MUCH more stable than the current Origin System and the greatwar

[mortal merlin]

oh right the old war

[lament stirrup]

I'm also inclined to say post Jade Shadows he blames the Tenno for failing to save Jade.

[scenic fossil]

Now it's daily genocide of Orokin remains

[stiff fable]

He didn't know he had a wife or child until the very end of Jade Shadows

[lament stirrup]

Oh yeah, thats true.

[stiff fable]

Stalker isn't Sorren

[scenic fossil]

Lol he made peace with Tenno at the end

Atleast started

[stiff fable]

I think he still hates the Tenno for the chaos the collapse caused

[lament stirrup]

He still hunts you after the quest, using Jade's light to enhance his scythe.

[stiff fable]

But it's not personal anymore

[scenic fossil]

He needs time... And child support

He do be chilling in Drifter's camp anyways

[stiff fable]

wait what

[slim osprey]

Look being a single dad is hard

[strange plinth]

to my understanding, sorren was incredibly loyal to the orokin, at least partially because they were dangling his wife over his head as a reward for his service (that'd never come)
so the tenno ruining everything he was holding onto,, kinda does that
held onto said hate as he became the stalker, which was his driving motive up until jade shadows

[lament stirrup]

Strictly speaking, Stalker's been going easy on the Tenno since Second Dream, since it turns out he knows how to hack and break into the orbiter and it takes him all of 30 seconds to reach their somatic link.

[stiff fable]

Oh, pretty sure Ballas lied about Stalker remembering

[mortal merlin]

another thing that amazed me is how Hunhow is the the first one to initiate that Shadow forgets his hatred for the tenno

[scenic fossil]

Im joking, it's just he appears whenever you buy jade stuff from Ordis there
And watches at you with Sirius in Hands

[stiff fable]

Since when he does meet with Jade again he doesn't remember

[lament stirrup]

It makes sense, Hunhow was under the impression that the Drifter and the Operator were the same person. So from his perspective the Tenno offered a truce in order to save his daughter.

[scenic fossil]

You did know that though

[slim osprey]

God the concept of building Jade is so messed up now that I’m thinking about it- Especially if you fight him with her

[strange plinth]

true, but was it ever said if he saw Jade post-warframe prior to night of naga drums?

[lament stirrup]

Stalker just leaves if theres a Jade in the squadron when he spawns.

[glacial bough]

It's less forget, more "They're her only chance"

[stiff fable]

Yeah it's mentioned that they met again and some point. She only recognizes him by a medal he wears, and there's nothing in him that sees her.

I think that's before DtO (Death to Orokin) Day

[mortal merlin]

if only jade could live to be with shadow but that is impossible because she wants to keep their baby

[slim osprey]

Oh poor guy came to murder Tenno and but was ambushed by them possessing a copy of his dead wife-

[lament stirrup]

Yeah.
Yeah...

[stiff fable]

Helminthing Jade should get you a deathmark right away

[stiff fable]

https://tenor.com/view/i-miss-my-wife-tails-i-miss-her-a-lot-sonic-the-hedgehog-snapcube-eggman-gif-27436480

Also obligatory

[slim osprey]

Helminth Jade and he sneaks onto your ship and murders your Tenno. Start a new save file.

[strange plinth]

we know he refuses to attack us due to that, but do you think he rationalizes it the same way ordis does? that we're using it in rememberance and honoring her, or is it another thing added to the list?

[stiff fable]

He doesn't want to cross blades with her at all

Even if it's not her

[lament stirrup]

It would be incredibly funny if they added a hidden playable stalker mode connected to Jade Prime in four years.

[slim osprey]

I don’t care if they’re doing it to “honor her”, if someone puts on my wife’s skin and walks around pretending to be her when she dies it’s hands on sight

[stiff fable]

Man they should have left Stalker mode in for Ascension

Playing as Stalker during the event was unoptimal as heck but it was SUPER cool to have a Stalker drop in

[river tangle]

seeing the very stalker has a piece of lore made me wonder if acolytes should also have one as well

[stiff fable]

I think it's time

[strange plinth]

why do the acolytes get to time travel

[stiff fable]

That might have been the only way JS could have ended even more epically, the Tenno calls for help before the ascent

[lament stirrup]

I've been running under the assumption that the Acolytes and Stalker were specifically made to hunt other Warframes and be brainwashed loyal without needing operators.

[stiff fable]

And one by one the acolytes show up to clear mobs and provide batteries

Apparently not, as far as we know the acolytes are Stalker's fan club

They model themselves after him

Stalker himself was literally just a rank and file guardsman pre-Collapse

While the Tenno were sleeping he studied the blade

[mortal merlin]

where did shadow go in the end? looks like a destroyed orokin place

[strange plinth]

somewhere on lua, no?

[stiff fable]

Yeah, Lua

One of the observation platforms with a view of Earth

[mortal merlin]

I wonder if he will still appear.

not as a stalker hunting you tho

and not as a playable on duviri

[lament stirrup]

I would assume so? You dont just drop the among us babies into the lore and then never bring it up again.

[strange plinth]

a stalker "easter egg" on a lua tile would be funny ngl

[lament stirrup]

That being said, since he doesn't have any major connection to the void or Entrati, I imagine it would be in a sidequest.

[stiff fable]

Before we entirely change the subject, I hope the Corpus captain managed to get away afterwards

[lament stirrup]

If she spun the aftermath properly, she could probably get away with claiming that Jade's remnants were always what she was after.

[mortal merlin]

oof right she even called the sisters... then she let shadow get away

[stiff fable]

Choosing NOT to rip a baby out of their parents' arms for Parvos to cut up in a lab clears the bar

I expect that's worth a free extraction and relocation by the Tenno

[mortal merlin]

I was gonna hate that corpus captain if she didn't do that... good thing she realised shadow was holding a baby

[strange plinth]

Xeto? yeah, same. she was the antagonist for the quest but she also called the corpus off once she figured it out.
i think the biggest thing she could do was claim that stalker was invisible and got past her, though idk how well that would hold up

[lament stirrup]

The Corpus have even less information on the Stalker than they do the Tenno.

[stiff fable]

Her crew would probably narc

[mortal merlin]

Shadow is an excalibur model right?

[stiff fable]

actually no

[strange plinth]

for a big enough price absolutely. just depends on if vala/parvos cared enough to start bribing her lackeys

[stiff fable]

Or, Stalker's MODEL in-game is an Excalibur base with a different helmet

But in lore, Stalker's a more-or-less unique Warframe model (though all his abilities are from other frames; Ash, Kullervo, Nyx)

[scenic fossil]

Stalker is Ash with extra power

[strange plinth]

purely game-wise, yes stalker is an old excalibur model with a different helmet
lore-wise, stalker is a separate warframe model, or strain, or whatever entirely

[scenic fossil]

[lament stirrup]

Ngl, if I was a Corpus crewmen, I'd be delighted to take any opportunity to avoid fighting a warframe without suffering a pay cut, no questions asked.

[stiff fable]

lol but imagine if you could avoid fighting the Warframe and then sell out your boss for an extra nickel

[lament stirrup]

"I get to keep my salary and my legs? Nice."

[stiff fable]

Pure Grofit

[mortal merlin]

it looks like he's an excalibur model but since he has still sentience he evolved on his own making his skill different from a normal one

[scenic fossil]

Or ballas made it specifically

[stiff fable]

Not sure if it's sentience that led to his powers being different; Warframe models have themes they're supposed to embody that are built into them during development

Like, Wukong is based on the Monkey King

[cedar hollow]

Is our arsenal a hammerspace?

[scenic fossil]

What

[stiff fable]

heh

[lament stirrup]

The devs did once (jokingly) confirm the Orbiter uses void techmology to be bigger on the inside.

[stiff fable]

The Arsenal is am auto wardrobe and storage locker, which is indeed on a ship that's bigger on the inside

[cedar hollow]

Timelord science

[lament stirrup]

That being said, Helminth's post segment installation dialogue implies the Warframes are stored inside the domesticated infestation when not in use. (Hopefully Umbra is the exception)

[cedar hollow]

Ordis' voicelines in the Jade shadow quest suggests he patrols around the camp

or the orbiter

[stiff fable]

I think that's for repairs and keeping them "healthy"

[mortal merlin]

Who is umbra again if I remember it's someone Ballas punished as well

[lament stirrup]

I desperatly need DE to add an NPC Umbra lounging around. He wouldn't even need fancy animations. Just have him meditate by a window or something.

[stiff fable]

unused Warframes are probably in some kind of cold storage

[scenic fossil]

He roams the orbiter

Man is bored

[cedar hollow]

Someone said we had to kill our own daughter, in that quest for umbra

[stiff fable]

That's basically it. A dax who found out that Ballas was going to turn traitor during the Old War, but Ballas found out and Warframe'd him.

[lament stirrup]

Wow thats. Only barely close.

[strange plinth]

a dax that discovered ballas' betrayal and was going to expose it, but ballas found out first
left with a "single burning memory" of being forced to kill his own son

[cedar hollow]

I do not remember that quest

[stiff fable]

During the process Ballas killed off his family members, then made him murder his own son

Isaah

[cedar hollow]

Ballas needs to die thrice

[mortal merlin]

if I recall Isaah was the reason he didn't turn into a complete puppet warframe

[stiff fable]

(The horror of the experience ironically is the reason Umbra is sane)

[scenic fossil]

imagine being the last Orokin, and still cause chaos because why not?

[stiff fable]

The "sane" Warframes all had something to latch onto

[lament stirrup]

A combination of unstable transference and the Man In The Walls influence also lead the Operator to believe that they killed Umbra's son.
Which, I don't think anyone besides the Man is currently aware of in-universe.

[stiff fable]

Ah no, it's even simpler than that

[cedar hollow]

Everytime the orokin made some bs it always comes back to bite em in the arse

[scenic fossil]

Easter egg orokin on Tau

[stiff fable]

Operating a Warframe requires "basic empathy". When you're seeing Umbra's memories you're seeing them AS him, in that moment.

So when the Operator goes through that memory he's living it AS Umbra

[cedar hollow]

Good lord I remember how much I love this game now

[mortal merlin]

where is umbra right now?

[stiff fable]

Evangelion Piloting 101: The Dangers of a High Sync Ratio"

[lament stirrup]

Right, but, the dialogue between the Operator post quest has them say outright "I killed him" in reference to Isaah (much to The Man's delight)

[lament stirrup]

The Orbiter, between missions.

[stiff fable]

On the Chosen Operator's Orbiter

[scenic fossil]

Chilling orbiter, playing with Ordis

[stiff fable]

Right, because you feel that as a result of living that memory

[slim osprey]

I will always headcannon that Umbra and the other frames are just all kept in a storage closet somewhere on the ship, and Umbra just stands there bored at attention all day when not in use

[mortal merlin]

so that's why sometimes ordis is saying umbra if umbra is hiding

[scenic fossil]

But Umbra isn't

[stiff fable]

I believe that's the Moon dialogue? Moon is all about connections, dreams and possibilities.

(Hence why Margulis-Lotus is the Moon option. She's NOT Margulis, but what if...?)

[lament stirrup]

Its ambient dialogue that happens during your first Man In The Wall jumpscare after The Sacrifice.

[stiff fable]

Right right but there's three possibilities for it iirc

Which one you get is based on your alignment

[strange plinth]

i'd assume the disassociation required to operate a warframe is difficult to fully achieve if you're living a memory rather than moving the body

[glacial bough]

Not for Wally no

[stiff fable]

hmm nope

[lament stirrup]

Its the same regardkess of alignment.
Atm only the Helminths dialogue is affected by alignment.

[glacial bough]

The only thing that gets different dialogue from the meter is Helminth

[stiff fable]

Less dissociation, more "extreme radical emapthy". You have to BECOME the Warframe. The animation sets are the tics that Warframe has.

[mortal merlin]

so there are 2 warframes that is visiting the orbiter... shadow and umbra?

[lament stirrup]

The Drifters Kim dialogue confirms that the animation sets are the Tenno reflexively taking on the Host warframes mannerisns.

[stiff fable]

Umbra is technically just a normal Warframe now

[glacial bough]

It's close enough to assume so, yeah

[stiff fable]

Excepting the sentience passive

[lament stirrup]

It just occurred to me that Umbra is somehow the healthiest father figure the Operator has.

[strange plinth]

yea, i was more referencing teshin's "tutorial" to the drifter.
even then, the operator hadn't transferred into a sapient/still mentally wounded warframe before then

[stiff fable]

that they remember

[strange plinth]

true

point still stands, though. operator still has to live that memory and figure out how to heal umbra through it

[mortal merlin]

ahh right he accepted the operators transference and they became one when operator is using umbra

I love warframes lore so cool...

also 1999 is like the version before everything on earth turned into something else... too bad it's a parallel universe or something

[strange plinth]

its the main timeline, not parallel or CE or anything
the technocyte coda (whenever they arrive) will continue to exist beyond 1999 and into the present origin system

• the finale email

[mortal merlin]

ohh it is? so... 1999 is before our current warframe era happen?

even waaaay before the old war?

[strange plinth]

way before yeah
we don't know the exact gap between 1999 and other events, just as we don't know the gap getween the old war and our awakening

[mortal merlin]

ohh so that's why entrati is saying the nuke has to happen

[strange plinth]

iirc entrati uses the nuke to power his loop of the last day of 1999, and to repel the murmur
whether its fully needed is unknown, as it may also just be a ploy to make sure the drifter starts their own loop and gets to know the hex (wally's weakness positive emotions, which the hex were severely lacking prior to our loop)

[old dome]

they never had a father figure to begin with—teshin is more like an uncle than a father... so yeah umbra is the only father figure they ever had.

[austere cedar]

Anybody have a link to that archive for the Kim chats that isn't the Wikipedia?

Someone posted it but I forgor

[humble sierra]

Kimulacrum?

[austere cedar]

YES

thank you!!

[humble sierra]

Can't link it but if you google it, it should be the first entry

Or I can DM actually

[austere cedar]

nope! I got it

[frosty latch]

why is the indifference bad?

what is his purpose?

[graceful swan]

If Drifters Kim message is correct the Indifference is the actual reason your parents died

[graceful swan]

We haven’t got that info yet DE want it to be mysterious

[chilly iron]

We don't know what it's true endgoal is yeah...
But it kinda is responsible for the Tenno, intentionally screwed up poor Drifter, and has Albrecht Entrati on the run scared out of his mind

[graceful swan]

Unless you count the hunting Albrecht thing

[chilly iron]

We don't totally know what it wants with Albrecht, do we? It's never been like "I want this, and this"

It's just tormenting him in 1999

[graceful swan]

He just wants us for our deal and Albrecht for some reason

[tall echo]

Albrecht took his fingerbones

[graceful swan]

That’s why you don’t put fingers through doors

[old dome]

look at its actions & tell me if offering a bunch of kids powers and gleefully watching them kill their own void-crazed parents with said powers is a good thing...

[frosty latch]

WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?

what is your source?

[quartz sky]

That's just what happened in the zariman when the op/drifter was a kid on it. We get flashbacks and Kim texts in 1999

[tall echo]

During the zariman incident

[frosty latch]

?

[frosty latch]

when does the flashbacks happen?

[tall echo]

The zariman incident.

[frosty latch]

what quest?

what is the source?

[north ferry]

War Within, New War, Angels of the Zariman, probably more places

[tall echo]

Not actually flashbacks, the operator gets sent to the time of the incident during tnw

In a time loop

[frosty latch]

he makes a deal with the indifference , that's all i know

who said the tenno killed their parents?

[tall echo]

The adults are driven insane from being in the void. Wally is a manifestation of the void.

[north ferry]

Actually I think specifics of the Zariman start getting covered in Second Dream

[tall echo]

The operator during war within or second dream

[north ferry]

I believe it's also mentioned there how they 'dealt' with their parents.

[tall echo]

Some tried to capture the adults until they hopefully got sane again, others killed them

[north ferry]

No. Wait. How they felt about it. The specifics of how they did it are covered in 1999 KIM I believe.

[tall echo]

Nah it's way earlier

[frosty latch]

so
zariman gets stuck in void (i'm assuming wally did that) , the adults get mad and try to kill the tenno, so they lock themselves in a classroom , then wally makes a deal with them , giving them transference

which they use to kill their parents

right?

[lean garden]

War Within, with follow up KIM messages

[lean garden]

Its both, in WW and KIM you get to choose which you did: hide, capture, kill

[north ferry]

Pretty much, although it's more general void powers of which transference is one.

[lean garden]

Zariman crashing is a toss up being actual mechanical failure or wally fault (so far its more overt its a mech fail), adults going mad is heavily suggested to be wally's doing

[frosty latch]

damn

[north ferry]

Don't know if the Indifference is responsible for the Zariman incident as a whole or not.

[old dome]

my source is the game itself

[graceful swan]

During New War

Well a memory of it was in New War

But yeah

[mortal merlin]

is there a site or something to read the whole warframe lore from the start

[graceful swan]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/

[mortal merlin]

thanks

[quartz sky]

I believe they let them starve to death

The ones trapped at least

[north jolt]

I don't intend this in any kind of mean way, are you fairly new to the game?

[restive river]

WE GOT VOIDTONGUE TRANSLATIONS

ITS ON BANDCAMP
FOR WHISPERS IN THE WALL MUSIC
WE GOT REAL TRANSLATIONS

[north ferry]

Neat

[graceful swan]

Murum Vull

lyrics
UUBOK! RIS RA KARIS! MAHK RE-UN!
(eternal service! Light out of darkness! Behold us!)

SHOTARAT? VA-GITH-ULLAH SHOTARAT?
(The master? Has the master returned?)

GITHLI, MIG. OTH RIS-HU.
(Welcome, newcomer. We give freely of our many lights.)

SHOTARAT! UUBOK!
(The master! eternal service!)

No God Above Knowledge

lyrics
SHOTARAT? VA-GITH-ULLAH SHOTARAT?
(The master? Has the master returned?)

GITHLI, MIG. OTH RIS-HU.
(Welcome, newcomer. We give freely of our many lights.)

Sanctum Atomica

lyrics
SHOTARAT? VA-GITH-ULLAH SHOTARAT?
(The master? Has the master returned?)

GITHLI, MIG. OTH RIS-HU.
(Welcome, newcomer. We give freely of our many lights.)

The Fragmented

lyrics
IVBOK, ISHLUN-JASS!
(Submit, dung-worm!)

VEH SHOTARAT!
(I am the overlord!)

YARA VAK. YARA UU-VAK.
(Behold desolation. Behold the infinite desolation.)

KALOHK? OZUN.
(The material world? Dust.)

VA GRIKH, UKUL SHO-GRIKH!
(Claws are strong, carapace is stronger still)

The Master Returns

lyrics
UUBOK! RIS RA KARIS! MAHK RE-UN!
(eternal service! Light out of darkness! Behold us!)

SHOTARAT? VA-GITH-ULLAH SHOTARAT?
(The master? Has the master returned?)

GITHLI, MIG. OTH RIS-HU.
(Welcome, newcomer. We give freely of our many lights.)

SHOTARAT! UUBOK!
(The master! eternal service!)

Vashtav has no lyrics

Yara Jeliira

lyrics
YARA JELIIRA, SHORANAC JELIIRA
(Behold my heart, fill my heart fiercely.)

UUKAREH, UUKAREH, BELIA VEH
(Eternal union, eternal union, I am your counterpart.)

[north ferry]

Neat

Now I'm wondering if there will be any conclusion to the Indifference storyline. I hope so, it's a little bit overshadowing. At the same time, what the hell could it be followed up by.

[lean garden]

The lyrics are slightly inaccurate, in the sense that the songs have more lines that arent reflected here

for instance The Fragmented has a VEH VAK SHOTARAT ISHLUN, which based on info means "I am the desolation master, dung"

theres also a giant untranslated chunk in the back of The Fragmented

[restive river]

^^^

[lean garden]

KALOHK OZUN YARA SHOTARAT
(The material world | dust | Behold | The Master)
KALOHK OZUN YARA UU-VAK
(The material world | dust | Behold | The Infinite Desolation)
YARA VAK YARA IVBOK (SHOTARAT SHOTARAT)
(Behold | desolation | behold | submit) (The master | the master)

theres a section after that I cannot process with my human brain

[north ferry]

Fits with the concept of the murmur I suppose. Now I think of it, kinda

[smoky solstice]

I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THIS

can we finally translate the tablet or was DE careful with that

all I care about is the tablet at this point

[graceful swan]

It’s the song translations

[smoky solstice]

was just wondering if there were words that align

gonna check that later ig

still big regardless

can't believe I'm seeing this much of an expansion in voidtongue knowledge out of nowhere

[smoky solstice]

OH MY GOD THEY RELEASED IT

screw the voidtongue stuff, they released the song in the final cutscene of the hex quest

OH AND IT HAS THE THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE PART

[fathom elbow]

If the infestation was already running rampant in deimos
Then wtf did tengus release

[restive river]

Deimos was in the void at the time

I do believe the infestation was also present to an extent but I’m not sure

[limber pulsar]

infestation was mostly contained to just eris before tengus released it

[fathom elbow]

Not doubting you
But where was this mentioned

[north ferry]

Isn't it not even on the Star chart until the quest?

But I believe in the preamble to the Deimos quest line.

Potentially mentioned during the quest as well but I can't recall well enough.

[restive river]

Necraloid brings it up

Also I would stay away from the wiki for lore as people can edit it easily
I’ll find the exact quote
But that is basically what happens

Necraloid has to rephase deimos into martian space so we can help with the heart

Loid: "We are in crisis, Tenno. Our defence against the Gray Strain has failed. The Necralisk is in lockdown, but it doesn't matter. The Infestation has compromised the very Heart itself. We have been forced to re-phase into Martian—"

Its unclear if he was gonna say orbit or space but doesnt matter cause the important part is deimos has to rephase

[restive river]

Before Deimos came out we watched the derelict shift on navigation into the exact spot Deimos is in, when the update dropped the derelict disappeared and its nodes became a part of deimos

[feral cape]

Also the orokin seemingly have a track record of just shoving celestial body's into the void

[north ferry]

I do remember that.

[restive river]

Its def just a theory but I like to think the derelict had to move into the relative position of Deimos’ orbit so Deimos could rephase

[restive river]

Mfw they shove moons in the void

[north ferry]

I mean, things in general

Void waste disposal.

[restive river]

Good place to hide

[north ferry]

Thus, the labs

[restive river]

Well the labs are just under deimos but ye

“Wally’s domain” is kinda just
invading

Spacial anomaly

[north ferry]

Very little substance to this thought but basically an endless maze of miscellaneous rooms all constructed beneath deimos? Or conceptual embodiment basically extending the physical world into the void that's awfully convenient for effectively infinite lab space. Thus why there's an point of insertion there rather than elsewhere.
My only evidence is the little orb you hop in enterjng missions has the little ghostly energy tether to the warframe.

Also, mouth portal

[fathom elbow]

Any better websites for lore?

[restive river]

The Orokin Archives is the best one

I’ll grab a link for you

https://www.orokinarchives.com

[fathom elbow]

Thank you

[restive river]

Thats def just a teleport tbh

[north ferry]

I never said it was particularly solid evidence.

[humble sierra]

OMG I KNEW JELIIRA MEANT HEART/LOVE

I'm really hoping we get the Lotus Eaters theme translated too

Sucks it wasn't in this new soundtrack drop

[graceful swan]

I think DE missed out lyrics from anything that had Mara

[humble sierra]

tbh I don't care about the lyrics as much as just getting to listen to it on my streaming services

[graceful swan]

It’s Bandcamp that actually gave the translations

Don’t think the other platforms show the translations

Which I think DE did on purpose

[stiff fable]

Absolutely evil

time to add a void tongue dictionary to Orokin Archive

[upbeat glacier]

Strange question

Does anyone know the uniform color meaning of corpus

Some are red, some blue , etc

[restive river]

Gray is gonna add a lyric section actually!

[stiff fable]

lol yeah that's good

[north jolt]

You know I can kinda see where Wally is coming from now. Very rude to just dump your trash and belongings in someone else's space

[restive river]

He’s mostly mad they swiped his fingy and used it for a buncha stuff

Maybe mad the void isn’t just a void anymore since before albrecht it didnt even have energy

[north ferry]

Considering it's quite possibly a creation of albretcht, maybe it's just generalized psychopathy and curiosity.

[burnt light]

Twist would be Wally is bored and having fun

[restive river]

That may have been what happened with the zariman tbh

[burnt light]

Nothing scarier then a eldritch horror being bored and decides to do something

Just thinking everyone is wondering what Wally is up to and I’m here thinking: Maybe he’s bored

[restive river]

Well we know he’s

1. Angry at albrecht and the orokin cause they stole his fingy
   And
2. Wants what the tenno owes him, unclear if its both operator and drifter or just operator tbh

It does seem we also broke the deal cause we refused to give him the last page so we’ll see what happens with that
Potentially whatever is going on with Lotus

[north ferry]

Last page?

[burnt light]

I feel he’s bit patient, the thing seems immortal and can wait

[woven coyote]

of the grimoire during whispers

[burnt light]

Was it said what they used his finger for?

[north ferry]

They've replicated it as reliquaries used for void travel. So the Zariman had several and Railjacks have one.

Or maybe just duplicated, not replicated.

[burnt light]

Guess he can’t just take it, he needs something to interact with the world

[restive river]

He does want it afaik but he cant just take it ig

[restive river]

Its not clear iirc
One finger was cut off but there Albrecht said there was multiple too iirc

[stiff fable]

Technically the Fragmented One is one of his "fingers"

In the sense that the Murmur prep for the FO which preps for Wally to show up in person

Someone at DE must have been thinking about Star Control 2

https://tenor.com/view/orz-star-control-hello-hi-alien-gif-14750955510390696314

[restive river]

Its a part of him yes

I like my analogy of the murmur as a whole being like sending out skin cells to go recover your finger

[stiff fable]

Yep

I still wonder if the Unum is the finger

[restive river]

Like the original?

That’d be interesting cause if that’s the case then the Unum

1. Has experienced love
   And
2. Helped us

I do hope we find out more on what she is tbh

I hope she mentions her girlfriend next time we meet, though she may not be able to

[stiff fable]

Yeah, it'd explain a lot I think

Like, the Unum has its own multiversal network

That ignores causality

This sounds familiar

[restive river]

I feel like the mirror princess story def implies she knows of Wally

And knows he must be kept away

I wonder if rather than be his finger she’s an entity akin to him, his opposite

[stiff fable]

That's why I think it might be the finger

There are a few stories in mythology about pieces of gods having different opinions about things

There's absolutely no in-game justification for this though, just a lot of "huh that's funny"

[north ferry]

Neat idea

[restive river]

Yee

I can’t wait to find out what happens
if we do

[frigid path]

What’s gonna happen with the baby

[proper barn]

We don't know.

Something I'm sure.

[frigid path]

Think we’ll get to play as him?

[proper barn]

Idk

He's very young but we don't know how quickly he will age.

[frigid path]

It’ll either be really quick or really long since it took her a long long long time to make him

[proper barn]

Cuz he's a werid Infested love baby made with a combination of love Helminth and void.

[proper barn]

Not to make him but to come to term with him and that was Ballas like punishment he inflicted on Jade.

[frigid path]

That’s what I meant

[proper barn]

But yeah I dont know.

Well we all don't know we can guess but that's a different topic.

[frigid path]

Ballas is gonna come back as a weird archon and try to eat it to become orokin again

[proper barn]

Orokin isn't like

A race.

It's just royal humans.

[frigid path]

It was a joke

[proper barn]

Like the Grinner Queens are Orokin just in grinner bodies

Cuz of continuity.

But I was gonna say

I think saying "I don't know" is something we should all do more but that's just me.

[restive river]

Dont forget the jade light

[proper barn]

Also yeah.

Just jades Energy. Which also powers up Stalker.

[north jolt]

Going by the fact that the Lotus specifically wanted the Drifter to go to 1999, presumably to protect the operator, I think its specifically the operator that owes a debt. Personally I think we (the operator) might of made him even more angy by refusing to hand over the final grimoire page and now he's at least partly scheming a way to force us to hand it over or give it up

[proper barn]

Not to protect

She tells you why there's a whole conversation.

[restive river]

I dont think it was out of protection lol

Like she mentions how the Drifter is a paradox

[proper barn]

Yeah there's a whole conversation for this.

[restive river]

She’s sending the paradox who lived in a time loop to deal with a time loop problem

[north jolt]

Clearly she thought us (the operator) answering the phone call and then going back to 1999 was too risky

[proper barn]

Also it would he harder for Wally to attack us.

[proper barn]

Literally not what she says pretty sure.

[restive river]

Wish we could replay it

Brb getting the orokin arxhives link

[north jolt]

She actually outright refuses to let the operator answer the call

She only lets the Drifter take the call

[restive river]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/lotus-eaters/

Lotus: "You, my champion. Please. Drown out that noise that beckons. If any other answers the call… no. It has to be you. Our paradox."

[north jolt]

The drifter being a paradox and knowing how to handle time loops also ALSO relevant too, but least to me ^ this dialogue implies that anyone else BUT the drifter answer the call would be too risky, for whatever reason

[proper barn]

Also

[restive river]

I think it’d be too risky cause who else can reasonably go and deal with this?

[proper barn]

Hmmm the operator and drifter together are paradox

[restive river]

The operator’s experience with loops isn’t like the Drifter’s

[restive river]

Well the Drifter is also just a paradox from the perspective of the Lotus as they’re an alt version of the Operator that coexists alongside them

[proper barn]

Yeah

[north jolt]

That's also a fair point, but there's something else too I think might be at play. Didn't you say a while ago that the drifter had a slightly different deal or outcome with Wally then the operator did? was left behind vs. being saved with the others?

[restive river]

The drifter makes the most sense to go, not to protect the operator but because of their experience.

[proper barn]

Also for a non game reason we all know dating is possible in 1999 and that's why only the Drifter can go there.

[restive river]

Yes, it seems like the Drifter did not get powers and we know they were not saved

[north jolt]

Least not at first, not until he came into contact with the hand

[restive river]

The details we know for certain are the Drifter is the version of us that wasn’t saved (and it appears they did not have powers)
And the Operator was saved (and had powers)

[north jolt]

So like, they got void powers through some kind of loophole?

[proper barn]

That was lotuses powers cuz she does have powers.

[restive river]

It seems the Operator shared their piece of Wally with the Drifter

Since the Operator needed the Drifter to escape their timeloop and vice versa
Which I believe is the paradox

[north jolt]

But they didn't make a deal with Wally directly to get that power, right?

[restive river]

The deal is likely how they got their power as the void powers are a piece of wally.

Drifter was not saved and it appears they did not get powers until the new war, when the Operator relived the deal in the timeloop of their own history

[lean garden]

They still made a deal to get (someone) saved

So technically

By completely made up legal loopholes and roller coasters

[north jolt]

Presumably everyone else on the Zariman, in their timeline

[restive river]

Don’t make a deal with a man in the wall, worst mistake I’ve ever made

[lean garden]

The Drifter having powers is just another way of having the deal being enforced properly

[restive river]

Well all the kids
Not everyone on the Zariman

[north jolt]

Yeah, I think the parents die no matter what

[restive river]

Wally does a little manipulation

Drifter sorta suggests that families suffer specifically from the void
Like the Entrati were at eachothers throats or just not talking to eachother and they were sitting right on top of the labs

[north jolt]

Unrelated but there's something else I been wondering about cause I think maybe it changed from its original intent. What actually IS the "void" that we see on the star chart that looks like the fancy prestine Orokin ships?

Cause it looks nothing like the Zariman we currently see where the holdfasts are, nor nothing like Duviri beyond the actual Islands (or when your railjack is warping through the void into a mission)

[glossy umbra]

I just found the albrecht stuff about the void and how they had given up on it didn't relize it was in world in the necralisk thought it was from fragments not this

it is the murals on the walls just before heading down into the sanctum

[glossy umbra]

the void is a sort of pocket demension those ships are ones left in it

[north jolt]

Makes sense

[north ferry]

Those are 'towers' which as I understand are buildings the orokin put there. For what purpose I am unsure, probably just because the Orokin can.

[glossy umbra]

they were stong holds of wealth and power basically unreachable by anyone but them I think is the idea

now just left overs from a dead age

[north ferry]

Yup that works out.

[proper barn]

Well also the Orokin had strongholds in the Void during the old war cus it was the only way to get away from the Sentients.

[proper barn]

Cuz most of the origin system was in war with the Sentients and losing before the warframe came.

And where can't the Sentients go?

The Void.

[north jolt]

Building bunkers in a volcano so the zombies cant get you!

[proper barn]

It kinda didn't work

But yeah. The sentients where literally winning just kicking the Orokin empires face in.

Like they stopped all invasions into the tau system they took over Orokin tech.

Like Hunhow was just sitting in space in the origin system.

[lean garden]

Bunkers

Its uuuuuuuh in Pom-2 and kim iirc

[proper barn]

It's what I said.

I said that Bau lmao also Hello Bau.

[glossy umbra]

oh dang this does basically say wally is a dark reflection of those who see him and albrecht was the first and until us only ones to see him

[lean garden]

Imagine if I could read?

Mobile is pain

[proper barn]

Unstoppable Bau.

[proper barn]

not a dark reflection

[glossy umbra]

also he is afraid he might be wally like the reflection got out and he is the one stuck in the void still

I mean it isn't a normal reflection it has some weird possible darkness possible just offness to it

[lean garden]

There has been like at least one person who wally "reflected" before us

[glossy umbra]

yeah albrech

[lean garden]

No

Yonta

[glossy umbra]

Albrecht's reasearch is what led to the zaramin trip so she would have been after him

[lean garden]

And she saw wally as her before us

[glossy umbra]

I haven't found that bit of lore were was that mentioned ?

[lean garden]

I'd never liked to stayed too long in the Reliquary Drive chamber, even when I was alive. I kept thinking I could see myself out the corner of my eye, grinning.

[glossy umbra]

oh one of the remarks she makes

[north jolt]

Maybe brief sightings of Wally doublegangers was more common then we think, but because they only ever lasted for a split second and probably very infrequently happened, most people just explained it away with paranoia or something

[lean garden]

Albrecht: "And no one ever saw him "

Wally, playing hide and seek with everyone else:

[north jolt]

Me when I actually see the same things the paranoid schizophrenic sees but I just play it off

[glossy umbra]

yeah we and albrecht are the only ones to fully call it it's own thing and interact with it all others just write it off as the void plays tricks with your head

technically duviri's king and people too but well he is and isn't us so that doesn't count

[north jolt]

Oh, well this would be a more recent and modern occurrence, but canonically Wally did merge all versions of Baro in existence together into a singular being who now regularly disappoints us on a bi-weekly basis. Basically he is one with his own copies now

Also isn't it weird how despite presumably going to identical locations in the void that we do, he still always comes back with loot only he seemingly has access to but that never drop for us like the primed mods? (I know the in-game/balance reason for this, but still funny to think about lore wise)

[glossy umbra]

also kind of silly the fingers in the ships that are massive are clones from the orginal that were albrech sized

[north jolt]

Where does Baro actually find those primed mods? I think an interrogation is in order

[glossy umbra]

we shook hands with wally meanwhile albrech chops off his mirror wally fingers as proof he went to the void and it had stuff

[north jolt]

Someone needs to do a pinky promise with Wally

[glossy umbra]

makes me wonder is our wally the same as albrechs or is it personal for everyone who interacts with the void and it is just another manifstation like all of duviri

[lean garden]

There is one wally

[glossy umbra]

what makes you so sure of that

like yeah it seems right to say there is only one wally but wally could be just as infinite as all the possible us there are

[lean garden]

Because this entire time there has been a single entity that is being presented, and the same entity has demonstrated being able to change its shape right infront of us

Its significantly far more reasonable to understand this is a single entity that can change its shape, than multiple entities that each take one shape and all for some reason believe themselves to be each other

[glossy umbra]

I am not saying they are multiple entities that believe they are eachother I am saying it may be somthing similar to the operator and the drifter they are multiple but they are the same person

[dire mountain]

Because it is the man in the wall. Not a man in the wall. the.

And if you need concrete evidence? How about from the Hex? It was interrogating albrecht while possessing rusalka, then eventually after drifter refused to kill her shape-shifted into the Operator

[lean garden]

Even the drifter and operator dont consider themselves the same entity, even if they were one before. Wally never exhibits this

[feral cape]

Because wallys presence is infinite in and of itself

He is the only him throughout the entire multiverse because he's is fundamentally outside of it

His "true" (true is in quotation marks for lack of better word) operates fundamentally outside of time and he is only bound in part by time because one of his fingers is contained with in physical 4 dimensional space

[glossy umbra]

well the name the man in the wall is just one that it was given still don't know it's true name but yeah I get what everyone else is saying about it being only it's self

[chrome rivet]

So if a Warframe gets decapitated, will the Tenno die from the shock, or feel the extreme pain but will be ok, or just faint from the pain?

[restive river]

They’ll feel the pain but won’t die

We were connected to our frame when it got stabbed for example and we know stalker decapitates frames but those specific tenno kept coming back

It is theorized that if a frame is completely destroyed a tenno may die from that pain and shock as Lotus mourned for iirc it was Gara’s tenno? I’ll have to check

But that may also just be the case if a tenno is in the dream

[stiff fable]

Also when a Warframe is captured by Zanuka (lololol scrub) you're disengaged from it and have to be specifically sent in to recover it, which suggests that whenever Stalker killed a Warframe, the Tenno just disconnected

which really is scrub behavior, no wonder Stalker's so pissed

[chrome rivet]

Damn

It must be tortuous for that Tenno who controlled Valkyr who's getting experimented by Alad-V

[mortal merlin]

hmm wait when I started warframe there was still no duviri...
but now you can start there.. does drifter and the duviri start before we awaken? in the timeline?

if only I could listen to the whole warframe while working

[glossy umbra]

it is an alternate time line parraelle kinda

but also after the awakening it is weird

[mortal merlin]

so duviri is happening to drifter after we awoken, in his own parallel

[glossy umbra]

sort of

[proper barn]

That wouldn't die and the warframe would go to the Helminth

To get fixed back up.

[mortal merlin]

the void made the duviri real right for drifter but it was actually drifter who made the world.

[proper barn]

Since the Zariman happened.

[proper barn]

Real but yeah. Also it is based on a book written by mother. It's why you can hear her voice in duviri.

I assume cuz rhe drifter knew her voice from class lessons and knew the book was written by her

So they heard it in her voice.

[mortal merlin]

so the timeline split when the zariman happened. because one of our operator accepted a deal then got the void powers got saved, while our other version got trapped which became the drifter

[glossy umbra]

the drifter is kind of the us if we never took the deal and lived out without powers trapped for years instead of geting powers and going into cryo sleep

[proper barn]

Split at the deal but idk if split is correct cus we don't have any like actual evidence

Of other timelines existing cuz every time we have seen another timeline "object" or whatever they are made by the Void.

Like it's something the Void spits out.

[proper barn]

Well just not saved. Also that might have been the like normal outcome was the Zariman staying in the Void and like since it was such a drastic change they stayed around.

Like what does the original mean

[mortal merlin]

i want to clear another thing did the drifter got the transference power in the end as well? since we were able to to use a warframe when we were on the duviri story mission.

[proper barn]

In duviri

It's probably lotus' Hand being powerful enough to help.

That let's us do that during the quest.

[glossy umbra]

we gave the powers to our selfs I beleve in the dinning together seen

[proper barn]

Also that hand in duviri is the hand we regrow lotus from in New war.

If you didn't know we regrew her from a hand now you know.

[mortal merlin]

ahh I want to create a new account just to redo the story from the start. again

[proper barn]

You can replay

New War.

Duviri the quest happens basically during the fade to black in new war.

That's when the duviri paradox takes place. Probably.

[mortal merlin]

ohh we can replay the main quest that I didn't know I'll start from the beginning haha

[proper barn]

Kinda maybe.

But that's later.

Also only learned the other Day the name "The Quills" is word play.

"The Quills are (re)writing history" Quills as in the writing device I hate it.

[mortal merlin]

damn we are evolving in the story just backwards... 1999 takes place even before the old war.. haha

[proper barn]

Cuz the unum tells the Quills what outcomes she wants to happen.

Cuz she can see multiple different outcomes and can show them to people if she wants.

She was also in a gay relationship with gara that's just a side note.

[mortal merlin]

our original tenno from the story is a she cool

[glacial bough]

No

[mortal merlin]

but whenever the cinematic plays that woman is played

[glacial bough]

Yeah, which is just an inside reference

[proper barn]

No also Drifter says grender isn't real for us.

Cuz we are void thing that change how we look whenever we want and we inhabit what used to be people of both male and female persuasions.

[north ferry]

Eh.

[mortal merlin]

I'm watching the cinematics of each quest right now starting from the start

[north ferry]

It's effectively irrelevant.

[proper barn]

Also we have a trans woman Character in game. I love Ticker she's great.

[proper barn]

Don't eh me.

It's what the Drifter says and that's cool.

They/them drifter is real seethe forever.

If you have a issue with that. I hope you don't.

[north ferry]

Yeah, the cinematic Tenno is a girl and I believe the cinematic Drifter is a man.

Unless it's Teshin in the cinematic.

[proper barn]

They literally aren't.

As said by in game text.

Oh Templar Warden be cool.

[north ferry]

I mean, I've not read all three options for that KIM message but I read it as 'take it how you want it.' However they identify is valid.

[proper barn]

How can you play a game that is against capitalism and group think and be like "oh well you see The Drifter is male and the operator is female cus of cinematics" also using male and female is cringe tbh.

[north ferry]

What I didn't say that

[proper barn]

Oh okay.

If you say your cool about it I'll believe you.

Like there's no reason for me not to belive you.

[heavy dagger]

Warframe sexism?

[proper barn]

Lmao

I don't think so.

[heavy dagger]

i heard of space racism space sexism is a new one

[proper barn]

Lul

[north ferry]

In this case I'm talking about the characters in the intro cinimatics, specifically only, in that they do appear do be a girl in the origin ones and man in the one Duviri.

[proper barn]

but what if

[north ferry]

I can't remember exactly.

[mortal merlin]

O.O and it started coz I saw the cinematic of the Awakening with a female-like character..

[glossy umbra]

oh the kid who finds the frames one ?

[proper barn]

You close your eyes and it almost feels like nothing changed at all what if

It all doesn't matter and it's a Illusion that you care.

Like just all drifters are operators are whatever they want to be cuz their Void beings.

[mortal merlin]

well if they really don't have a gender then that's fine right?

[proper barn]

And no gender is real for them.

Even if it was it would be fine either way you have any void any body type we don't have a "make woman" or "make man" button.

You can have a beard as either one too.

[glacial bough]

They're whatever the players wants it to be. Drifter the character notes the line between them is blurry when you get down to it

[proper barn]

Yeah.

Gender is a Illusion

Based drifter tbh.

[smoky solstice]

ok I think I am on to something from the lyrics
the prefix "ka" in a word seems to change the meaning to the opposite
so you see "karis" being "darkness", opposite of "ris", aka "light"
you also see this in "kalohk", which translates to "the material world", aka the opposite of the void

idk how many of you have already made conclusions about voidtongue from the lyrics

I'm just starting

also, "ra" seems to translate to "out of", which means we got ONE WORD OFF THE TABLET CONFIRMED

[glacial bough]

What lyrics?

[proper barn]

Oh also they changed how like prime frames come out so we can have way more "N/A" warframes now. Also anyone that was like "oh xaku is gonna be in either the male or female prime slot so that means something" and now that's changed so we can get way more odd gender frames now if DE wants.

[smoky solstice]

from the whispers in the walls soundtrack, bandcamp release has lyrics which have an english translation

[proper barn]

Oh DE released albums and they have translated void tounge lyrics

[glossy umbra]

wait we actually have translation for void tounge now

[proper barn]

No

More than before. We had like

8 words before?

[glossy umbra]

still that is more then I even knew we had

[proper barn]

Oh have you not watched the albretch like logs?

[smoky solstice]

seems like only one word off the zariman tablet gets confirmed though, although I'm still starting so maybe I can make theories based on the rest

[proper barn]

From the original diemos?

[glossy umbra]

thos were void tounge words ?

[proper barn]

Cuz for each of those we get to know the like requim void tongue names.

Yeah "Xata=truth"

And stuff.

[glossy umbra]

I thought they were orakin not void

[proper barn]

No lmao.

The animals also talk in void tongue for a little bit.

I think that's been more translated now.

[glossy umbra]

also only found those murals with albrich talking erlier today lol

nothing really hinted at them being an interactable thing when I first saw them

[proper barn]

Oh they where there since

Original diemos you just needed standing in the synds on diemos to watch them.

[smoky solstice]

yeah, thought they were just decoration myself when I first saw them, they are like maybe the most important side content to listen to in the game though, which is funny

[glossy umbra]

I know I just didn't relize you could go up to them and hit x I thought they were just cool art

[smoky solstice]

like I don't think whispers really hits as hard without it, it's some really good stuff

still not fully sure what the requiem poem means in the lohk log but

I have a vague idea

[glossy umbra]

the 2 that got me were truth behind ordis and the Khora story

Khora was hidden weird though

like it doesn't make sense until the very end of the story why they put it in those fragments and even then still odd

[smoky solstice]

ok fibonacci's line seems to have a translation now

yara mig! is "behold newcomer!" and he keeps repeating it

no idea what uru uru means, at least not yet, but yeah

weird thing is - re-un also seems to mean behold, no idea how to take that

[glossy umbra]

multiple words meaning the same thing or similar enough to not need to translate them twise

[smoky solstice]

ok that's all I got really

learned some language rules, mainly the "ka" thing, uu prefix seems to relate to infinity or eternity, and on top of the things directly translated, I'd wager "reh" means separation or whatever the opposite of "union" would be in that context

aside from that, it's kinda hard to make conclusions
liira potentially means heart since "jeliira" is my heart, although I'm not sure how far the "my" extends or if it's at the beginning or the end

in terms of the duviri tablet, literally only thing that was translated seemingly was "ra" which means "out of", which still leaves it fairly open ended

"kah" could relate to the "ka" prefix, although idk if you can reasonably make that conclusion

[lean garden]

I wonder what iv in ivbok means in bok means some kinda servitude

[smoky solstice]

oh you're so right

idk maybe "surrender to" or some equivalent?

since bok means service, I feel like the "iv" part has to in some way tell you to get to a point where you're performing service

honestly I really hope we can get a potential meaning for noma or elu out of this

I'm still wondering if "ma" can in some way be a prefix or like separated

[lean garden]

Theres a chant at the back of the fragmented

Yara vak uu yara ivbok

[smoky solstice]

what do you mean at the back

I'm only going off the lyrics

well outside of that

there's also "sho"

shotarat and shoranac, former is master/overlord, latter is fill fiercely
I wonder if you could get an approximate meaning for sho based off that

[lean garden]

The fragmented lyrics on bandcamp are partially incompleted

[smoky solstice]

ok well that makes this even more of a headache

[raw stone]

Oh... uh. Bad time to ask what Dante is saying during his summons or is his voidtongue too garbled?

[lean garden]

Not a bad time, but its quite garbled

[smoky solstice]

never even noticed that was voidtongue

makes a lot of sense though, what else would it be

I think this is how the zariman tablet is gonna work though

DE will dripfeed the words until we get the puzzle solved

starting with what seems to be the least important one

I mean "out of" is interesting though, out of what?

I feel like that will be the big reveal some time in the future

[humble sierra]

Zariman tablet?

[smoky solstice]

like oh it turns out all of this is a computer simulation and the void is somehow the area outside of it

[lean garden]

Mind sending the tablet one?

[humble sierra]

Oh you mean the corrupted thingy

[smoky solstice]

one sec

I hate fandom

[smoky solstice]

I really hope warframe moves to wiki.gg lol

[lean garden]

Boy will you enjoy devstream 31 then

[smoky solstice]

this one yeah

[humble sierra]

Orokin Archives is a lot less bloated, good for lore

[lean garden]

||spoilers||

[smoky solstice]

oh what

no way, is DE doing a re-logic

[smoky solstice]

sorta, I'm just not too good at navigating it

I've been in the duviri wiki page like 100 times at this point so I know exactly how to get there, but it's a long page so it takes a million years to load lol

[humble sierra]

Devstream 31? That came out like, 10 years ago

[smoky solstice]

so far from what we can translate it seems like "the wall of bone in which noma elu out of kah, void child?"

I feel like noma is you

but we'll see

[lean garden]

Devstream on the 31st I mean

[humble sierra]

OHHHHHHHH

that makes sense, I'm dumb lol

[smoky solstice]

like what else can it be aside from you

since the indifference is referring to us

[smoky solstice]

the wall of bone in which we did something

[smoky solstice]

oh is this a secret discord for the wiki contributors

[lean garden]

Dude read the bolded lines

[smoky solstice]

yeah, I mean I was about to say like they did explicitly say not to share it around but I guess the cat was kinda out of the bag

only a small amount of people come here anyway

and it's the lore nerds anwyay, I'm sure we can keep it out of general and stuff

[graceful swan]

No its the Wiki discord anyone can join

[smoky solstice]

oh, weird how they hoped you'd keep it under wraps then

if it's a public discord, I'm not too mad about it lol

[lean garden]

Perhaps reverse psychology

"Dont reveal it"
Gets spread like the plague

[smoky solstice]

I'm just hoping we see a roadmap for future updates

[humble sierra]

It's actually a reference to OnLyne

[smoky solstice]

really wanna know how long until we see the maya quest

[humble sierra]

Typically we get news on 1 or 2 updates, max

The big stuff is always at TennoCon

[smoky solstice]

so are you saying the next big story quest is gonna be at the end of the year

because if they're announcing it at tennocon, it's probably gonna be a few months before they release it

maybe we get some crumbs with the next updates though to keep us lore addicts at bay

it cures is such a good track

so glad they released it. A little disappointed we don't get the murmur growl in the song like we see in the quest, it works so well with the song but I can't complain too much given that we actually got a spotify release for it

plus the murmur growl is only in the first instance of it playing and this is moreso in line with the second instance

[glacial bough]

The next updates are pretty clear, the Echoes for 1999 and the one for Lavos Prime. Unlikely there's going to be anything about story so soon

[smoky solstice]

well echoes of 1999 is obvious, but I'm assuming they announce what comes next after that

plus I'm assuming it releases like next month

[glacial bough]

That would Lavos Prime plus whatever fixes

[graceful swan]

Only minor updates till Tennocon news

[smoky solstice]

yeah but "lavos prime" doesn't tell us much, just a prime warframe they're releasing with an update, they don't typically release primes on their own

[smoky solstice]

is this how it normally works?

[glacial bough]

We're likely going to get art for the next frame

[smoky solstice]

well maybe we get some more side quests which are fun

like jade shadows

[humble sierra]

Jade Shadows was technically a main quest

It wasn't connected to everything else going on

[smoky solstice]

yeah but it's like a side quest in my head

[humble sierra]

but it will be relevant in the future, no doubt

[smoky solstice]

actually is it a main quest? is it a prerequisite for something?

maybe it's just so the stalker continuity doesn't get weird in the future, he does tend to appear a lot in main quests

historically, not as much recently

[lean garden]

I think its because its the literally end of the line currently

[humble sierra]

It requires you to have done New War, and there's no quests that have it as a prereq because that storyline has yet to get any more quests

[lean garden]

Timeline wise according to the quest order, it would seem that jade shadows takes place after 1999

Which explains why operator and not drifter responds to stalkers request

[glacial bough]

In regards to primes, they almost always do. Most every prime is a particular hotfix update within a major update

[smoky solstice]

kinda weird for it to take place after when the hex wasn't even released when it dropped, but honestly idk, I don't remember there being any clues for it

[smoky solstice]

I mean the operator is still the main origin system dude

the drifter is for weird void-related/time-travel shenanigans so far

[humble sierra]

lol they haven't updates the page on the website to include the Hex, let alone Jade Shadows which isn't as connected

[lean garden]

Tbf the Hex are were well into the pipeline during that time, so DE has obvious room to arrange as such

[smoky solstice]

tbf I think this is mostly for people trying to get to the hex, so that's probably why

seems to name all the prerequisites, I don't see duviri but I guess they put that in the new war saga, which makes sense

given that it takes place sorta during it

[humble sierra]

nope

They just haven't touched the website

[smoky solstice]

I mean it's void stuff so it doesn't work in chronology, I'm sure it works at any point in the questline before the hex due to that, but like spiritually speaking it takes place during new war

[smoky solstice]

oh that's kinda strange

maybe they just forgot duviri isn't a side quest anymore lol

I mean it was never a full-on side quest but it wasn't necessary for the main quests until 1999

but yeah, seems likely they just haven't updated it since 1999 released

[glacial bough]

I wouldn't call it a main quest. It's just the same vein as something like Octavia's Anthem

[graceful swan]

They haven’t updated it since updating it

[smoky solstice]

I mean I don't think anything in jade shadows contradicts that placement but it released prior to 1999 and nothing is pointing from what I've seen for it to be post-1999 so idk, I just feel like it's kind of an in-betweener

[humble sierra]

Officially, it is

Within the codex it's listed as a Story Quest

[smoky solstice]

is it a prerequisite for anything?

[lean garden]

I think its where jade is placed in the in game codex that lends credence to it

[tall echo]

No, because the follow-up presumably doesn't exist yet

[smoky solstice]

oh I didn't know it was placed at the end, although I guess that works, since it's not a prerequisite, that basically tells you it's fine to play it whenever after you unlock it for now

I assume when they want to give a distinct point in time for it, they'll just make it a prerequisite

[humble sierra]

No but that's because there's only been 3 updates since it came out. One was set before the New War, and the other two were directly related to Whispers/1999. There's no follow-up to it

[smoky solstice]

yeah that's probably the idea for now

[tall echo]

Three?

[graceful swan]

Might get more Stalker stuff after the arc ends

[smoky solstice]

which one was pre-new war? duviri?

[humble sierra]

Lotus Eaters
Koumei
1999

[tall echo]

Oh ye

[humble sierra]

Koumei and the Five Fates

[smoky solstice]

there's not a quest associated with it, is there?

[graceful swan]

Nope

[smoky solstice]

oh you meant updates in general

gotcha

[humble sierra]

Yeah updates in general

[smoky solstice]

koumei barely registers in my brain tbh lol

[humble sierra]

The "quest" is just that one node

[smoky solstice]

I got koumei and I dipped, although I should grind out another one, I hate molt mirage, omamori mirage sounds much more fun

[graceful swan]

Koumei and the 5 fates had almost 0 lore let alone being a quest they were saving lore stuff for 1999 release

[smoky solstice]

yeah, although I do wish there was something more grand there given how much it was advertised as being a new player thing

I mean it is but it's got the same vibe as all the other new player content, which is not good lol
aside from it having a nice aesthetic and having a really cool soundtrack behind it

anyway, yeah, I guess jade shadows does look like it's happening post-hex

or maybe in parallel even, I mean it's not like the operator is doing much else

[graceful swan]

Operator mails you to say what they are doing

It’s just doing Origin System stuff while you’re in 1999

[smoky solstice]

exactly, not much

actually they literally say they're just waiting around until you do the hex stuff lmao

wait

this gives me weird vibes

like why would you need to say this, I don't think that was in doubt

someone from DE thought that was important to put in there when no one would even think for 2 seconds if it wasn't there

[humble sierra]

It's like Operator was recruiting the Drifter, reaching out to them from beyond or something, but that was the whole point of Lotus Eaters

[smoky solstice]

which bothers me for some reason, like there's something more to the PS

[tall echo]

It was in-universe

[smoky solstice]

I'm on the indifference stuff again

[smoky solstice]

ik, and it's probably just some flavor, maybe the drifter did need like some reassurance being kinda summoned from their whole duviri thing they were on, but the whole indifference thing is making me overthink everything

[glacial bough]

It is what we have a powerful shapeshifter running around

[smoky solstice]

like that just feels like a weird line, not to mention the perfect grammar before it and the "i" right after that, sounding a lot more casual

[glacial bough]

One that particular likes to take your exact form

[tall echo]

Underthink, occam's razor or whatever it's called

[smoky solstice]

I know, it's just like a thing a DE writer added for a reason and while it could just be extra in universe flavor, not much more than that, with everything surrounding the indifference and all the conspiracy theories I have in my head about it and 1999

it feels like maybe something more

I think it's that damn "i", why is it undercase

I know I sound delusional but it's perfect grammar before, I'm losing my mind

[glacial bough]

Because Operator is still a bit of a kid

[smoky solstice]

yeah but the rest of the email is all business

dude wrote it out like they were working in a law firm

and then "i", I'm going crazy

semi-ironic operator email crashout

[glacial bough]

Yeah. Operator is 95 percent mature and business. The P.S is the 5 percent that's a kid

[smoky solstice]

look like there's something to the indifference

the way it's worked around the tenno, the way it's worked around US, there's always some extra layer
I don't believe it's just sitting dormant in 1999, it's fingerprints are everywhere

[glacial bough]

Or rather, the percent that's able to be more emotionally vulnerable

[smoky solstice]

I get it, it's not about the content, it's about the little "i" I think that's messing with me, and the fact that a DE writer added this for a reason, which is either flavor OR actually a subtle hint that...

actually idk, because "oh it is actually the indifference" sounds really dumb

a subtle hint at something

oh wait lmao, I just realised
when 1999 released and they sent out that email of like "oh here's an extra warframe slot and a few weapon slots that new players will get by default now", it also comes with the fragor and boltor

the weapons new players were complaining about not getting from doing the duviri quest LMAO

anyway, I'll stop talking about the emails

but if it's part of a huge plot twist in the future, make sure you remember who called it

[tall echo]

...what

[smoky solstice]

yeah apparently part of the reason they moved it is because you like pick out the weapons from duviri and then you don't get them and new players were confused and like emailing their support and stuff

at least someone here (I think captain) told me that was the stated reason for moving the quest to uranus

[tall echo]

[smoky solstice]

a lot of emails from confused new players about not getting stuff from duviri

[tall echo]

Big brain time

[smoky solstice]

either way, it's fun that they just gave out some of the weapons you choose from in duviri

and the boltor is a good one to give out assuming this is just a default weapon new players get now

[jolly briar]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1idj89t/heads_up_that_the_witw_soundtrack_on_bandcamp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

a little something I think you all will like

[lean garden]

Indeed we've chatting about it

[solid gull]

Do we know default looks of Orokin? As I understand all Entrati family, including Albrecht, Ballas and Grineer Queen - they all Orokin, but they don't have a lot in common. I thought Ballas is default look, but I'm not sure

[chilly iron]

The problem with "default" is they could change their bodies at whim. The last fashion was a long right arm, but that was just in vogue.
"Default" may be just human shape, because that's what they are

[tall echo]

Albrecht lost and regrew his skin, the queens are no longer in orokin bodies, the entrati are just very infested

[wintry siren]

Im pretty sure every orokin look like regular humans but modded their bodies or drank the kuva to go into new blue long arm bodies

[tall echo]

Ballas is the closest we get to a common orokin

[wintry siren]

Potential spoilers maybe?, ||who is albrecht’s daughter? Is it grandmother or mother?||

[chilly iron]

He's a high ranking dude, though

[glacial bough]

It's mother

[chilly iron]

Mother, from Deimos

She also wrote The Book of Duviri

[wintry siren]

Ok I figured, I got very very confused about it though

[tall echo]

Orokin is orokin

[wintry siren]

Funny spoiler I guess for 1999 and duviri I guess ||Me going up to mother with revised edits of The Book of Duviri so it’s not a nightmare if my own creation ||

[chilly iron]

They are, yes, but I figured being noble among nobles he might not dress as "common" and be fancier, as befitting his status

Oop meant to reply

[glacial bough]

There is no common amongst Orokin

[tall echo]

We see other orokin in parvos' tenets, they dress the same

[chilly iron]

She probably doesn't remember, sadly T^T
The book really was meant to help children regulate their emotions. If you go to the island with the extra big owl puzzle (I can't remember it's name) it explains the devices children were supposed to use to analyze their emotions and reactions.

But obviously poor Drifty being alone in a story book... anyone is going to eventually go mad

[wintry siren]

Each day I’m kicking myself for not playing a lot of duviri because I thought it was a rouge like that wasn’t fun

[chilly iron]

If you like lore (of course you do!) just take like one day to go get the fragments and check out the zariman tablets. Then you can never go back
Until you need pathos clamps. Or Kullervo.

[tall echo]

Roguelikes are amazing tho

[chilly iron]

Then you can hear about bleeding earth, and rains of chains, and giant fingers

[graceful swan]

Can even see Wally

[wintry siren]

I have never had fun with them. Hollow knight, dead cells, couldn’t enjoy them

[wintry siren]

How do you k lnow I like lore? Who from the destiny community told you before I migrated back to warframe like two years ago

[tall echo]

Hollow knight isn't even a roguelike

[wintry siren]

Wait what

Oh sky it’s a Metroidvania right?

[tall echo]

Roguelikes are built around the player dying and unlocking stuff to help on future runs, hollow knight literally has a hardcore mode

[graceful swan]

Hollow Knight is a Metroidvania game

[tall echo]

Dead cells is also one of the hardest roguelikes, making it not very fun overall

[graceful swan]

Does Scrap find Duviri fun?

[wintry siren]

Ok I know this is going to sound insane. I know what a rouge like is but I thought metoridvanias were a sub genre of them and are just tough likes with 2D platforming

[tall echo]

Roguelikes like to use metroidvania as a game style because it works well with the gameplay

If you want roguelike recommendations I have... a few

[wintry siren]

Oh my god…I’ve gaslight myself by confusing the genres for one and the same with a few differences…

Now I know how the drifter feels

[chilly iron]

Welp, now you have to go back to 1999 and make friends with a paramilitary group

[lean garden]

easy, those who dont like lore dont come to this channel

[graceful swan]

I think some do

Many who don’t like lore still want to know what happened in the quests as they don’t pay attention

[woven coyote]

In those cases its usually someone who wants to complain or troll tho

[graceful swan]

Yeah there’s one person I saw who said 1999 didn’t look good

[chilly iron]

That's ok, when I was a child I had stupid opinions too ;3

[wintry siren]

Oh…I’ve played myself

[wintry siren]

[north jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/brutal-savage-rekt-gif-9810801

ALSO I figured out how we're going to "defeat" the indifference! (I'm sure I am totally the first ever person to come to this conclusion )

We are going to teach it empathy, compassion and forgiveness, concepts currently alien to it, in order to convince it to let go of its (tbh pretty justified) anger and hostility

[glacial bough]

Wally very much understands those things though. He just doesn't really care

[feral gull]

isnt he basically the devil

tbh he keeps that smile so hes positive everyday and we should learn something from him

[north jolt]

Personally Im not sure if he actually does or not. He might know what they are on a conceptual level, but I don't think they are something he himself can actually experience

[spice spade]

Wally is my number one role model

[north jolt]

Make faustian deals with people and then spend every possible moment stalking and harassing them?

[normal mountain]

I would like to think the Wall Man could be taught to love, and thus no longer be (much of) a threat
But he's reminding me too much of a certain demon triangle for me to have much hope

[north jolt]

Right now my two main guesses on how we defeat him are A: we teach him love and forgiveness and he becomes less of a dic (sorta kinda not really what happened with Hunhow) or B: we find a way to regress his influence on our world and push him back into the void. He's still around and still a threat, but for the time being a contained one

The latter is also viable because very few threats in WF ever actually go away for good

[normal mountain]

True
Like Teshin says, some nightmares recur

[tall echo]

Love (or friendship) seems to straight up force wally to retreat, so I don't think teaching him compassion is an option

[normal mountain]

Odd idea, but what if he ends up sorta like the Eidolon?
Shattered to bits, so not a big threat anymore, but still around?

[north jolt]

That could also happen, could also lead to new content so

[tall echo]

Killing wally isn't a good idea either though considering how much we rely on aspects of him (tenno powers, reliequary drives)

[north jolt]

There's also a more bleak theory I've been keeping in the back of my mind, but Im putting that to the side for now and like you said, we can't just outright kill Wally

1. Could also negatively effect us in the process and 2. We don't even know if it's possible or not?

[tall echo]

I still have no idea how to actually spell the name of the void drives

[north jolt]

Just call them the finger engines :p

[tall echo]

Fingie engie :3