lore-discussion

[zinc crown]

why arent crewmates and corrupted enemy having long arm

[tall echo]

They aren't orokin(people), only orokin(faction)

[drifting mirage]

Corrupted [faction] have been mind controlled, they're still the units they were (more or less)

[feral cape]

No its the passive

[normal mountain]

Skill issue

if you couldn't already tell, I'm not changing my mind on this. Umbra is fine

[feral cape]

Base excal is still better than umbra for endgame content

Needing to to waste a mod slot to keep buffs is not good

[normal mountain]

Who said I care about endgame content?

Umbra is fine

[feral cape]

Sure he's fine but he's still worse than base excal

[drifting mirage]

I kinda wish the circuit didn't prioritize Umbra over base Excal

I haven't looked into the augment to fix him yet so I don't even know where it lives

[tall echo]

Warrior's rest

Check in codex

[normal mountain]

It prioritizes the highest powered variants
So Umbra gets picked over Excalibur

[drifting mirage]

I like Umbra as a concept. It's neat from a lore perspective. It's also funny to see him running around doing his best.
But in practice I just rebuilt base Excal and have 3 forma in on him

[normal mountain]

I honestly wouldn't have it any other way

[drifting mirage]

I've been enjoying playing with it

[tall echo]

The only issue is the (presumably) bug that removes buffs on transference out

[drifting mirage]

mostly because the Gemini skin

[feral cape]

The only thing umbra has over base excal is macroing index

[feral cape]

And umbea remains vulnerable whilst your in transference

Which in high level content will get him killed

[drifting mirage]

That is also a pain

[tall echo]

Oh right that's s- crappy too

[normal mountain]

At least he doesn't die and waste your revives
He just stops fighting on 0 health

[arctic geyser]

So base excal is better than umbra?

[normal mountain]

I think not

Others here disagree

[drifting mirage]

This should probably find a new channel home

[arctic geyser]

Loll, honestly at the end of the day the version js depends on how u wanna play excal

[tall echo]

Purely gameplay-wise, yes

At least howl is better than blind due to no LoS req

[normal mountain]

...I actually didn't know that

[tall echo]

But aside from that umbra is bad in two major aspects

[arctic geyser]

Honestly I always figured this mainly cause u have to waste forma which im not doing lol but this made me wanna make a regular excal build

[tall echo]

Well you can get rid of both issues with one mod which also grants ability strength

People just don't want to replace their precious pointless PSF

[zinc crown]

why does lotus operator and tenno look normal though

[graceful swan]

Because they aren't in the Orokin class Lotus isn't even a human

[tall echo]

Again, orokin(faction), not orokin(people)

If they don't have the arm and skin they're not orokin people, except albrecht

[graceful swan]

Even Albrecht used to be Blue

[tall echo]

Orokin got da blues

[graceful swan]

He just went white and had a haircut to blend into 1999

[tall echo]

Regrowing his skin probably did that, not him trying to blend in

If he was he wouldn't have worn clothes covered in gold circles

[strange turtle]

Orokin were the ruling caste of the Orokin Empire, they had weird fashion things like changing skin colour and making one arm longer, it wasn’t a natural thing

[candid elm]

Was hunting my sister and she talked about the hounds being metalized flesh and iow we have a lot in common

Are hounds warframe kubrows?

[lean garden]

lemme go check that line real quick

[latent stump]

I've been listening to the On-Lyne songs non-stop, and I've thought myself into a corner and just would like to bounce an idea off the wall. Specifically "The Great Despair". I've seen a couple people elude the band to being a manifestation of the infested. Would "The Great Despair" be a song to mock or fuel the emotional bond between Albrect and Loid?

[lean garden]

"Have you met my Hound? A gormless mass of metallised flesh that follows me around everywhere? You two have a lot in common."
Hounds are not warframe'd kubrows, she's basically calling us her b*tch

[tall echo]

On-lyne is a regular band, people think they're infested because they didn't get the new info that the coda liches are infested clones of the band

[candid elm]

Oooooooohh

Hot

[hoary vapor]

Four ways: a cheesy over-the-top break up song, the manifesting of techrot, references to the Indifference, or the Hex losing hope.

All are correct imo.

[tall echo]

In-universe it's just the first one

[hoary vapor]

Oh definitely lol

Same thing with Party of Your Lifetime: a cheesy over-the-top party song, manifesting of techrot, or the Hex triumphant and hopeful.

[drifting mirage]

I forgot that Ayatan was among our weird canon names.

[graceful swan]

Operator (by Ordis)
Hunter (by Cephalon Simaris and Son)
Tin-suit (by Maroo)
Betrayer (by the Corpus, primarily Alad V)
Stainless Steel Rats (Frohd Bek)
Insects (by Councilor Vay Hek)
Shiny Bugs (by Sprag)
Lizard/Leech/Bloody Worm/Ugly Freaks/Rodents (by Tyl Regor)
Devils (by Orokin, primarily Ballas)
Friend (by Jovial Kuva Lich)
Adversary (by Logical Kuva Lich)
Little Meat (by Flirtatious Kuva Lich)
Hollow Shell (by Jordas Golem)
Puppet (by Hunhow and Worm Queen)
Star-child (by Palladino and Vitruvian Ordis)
Dreamers (by Nora Night, Worm Queen, and The Unum)
Offworlder (by Ostrons)
Killer (by Konzu)
Outworlder (by Solaris United/Ventkids)
Sparky (by Eudico)
Hotshot (by Little Duck)
Stardust (by Ticker)
Boss (by Legs)
Glinty (by Ventkids)
Chip (by Otak)
Shiny thing (by Son)
Ayatan (by Entrati)
Demon (by Helminth)
Putrid Apes/Children of Abomination/Filth-borne/Chattels (by Pazuul)
Biped (by Fibonacci)
Bird 4 (by Bird 3)
Kiddo (By The Man in the Wall, Eudico and the unnamed player's father)
Marty (By the Hex)
Future (By Amir)
Space Trauma (By Quincy)

[drifting mirage]

god i love all our hex nixnames ngl

[graceful swan]

I love how Bird 3 calls us Bird 4

[strange turtle]

It’s only natural that the best character would have the best nickname 😤

[tall echo]

Tyl regor and pazuul competing for the most insults

[old dome]

you forgot "MAGGOTS!!!!" by vay hek

[upbeat glacier]

I wonder what faction held out the longest against the sentients

[graceful swan]

During the Old War or New War?

[upbeat glacier]

New war

[graceful swan]

Tenno faction was last to fall

Infested didn't get attacked at all

The other 2 is anyone's guess as nothing states if the battles happened in the order we saw them or simultaneously

[strange plinth]

i wonder if there was a reason for narmer not to bother the infested. not valuable or a threat?
ik entrati family went quiet to not draw attention, but eris was also left alone, it seems

[silk atlas]

No military advantage

[graceful swan]

Probably memories from Old War

They got bombed during the Old War which is why Deimos is Infested

[spiral field]

Guys

Nvm

[proper barn]

hmmmmm?

[north jolt]

Bird 3 is precious

[dire sphinx]

I wonder where Parvos has been since the deadlock protocol quest he’s been real quiet and Im hoping to see what will happen when we conflict with Parvos once again

[lean garden]

real quiet? Homie he's been yapping his head off during the Belly of the Beast event last year, as well as parts of Deimos disruption

[grim hazel]

Can someone explain to me how Xaku has a Prime when the whole point of it is that it’s a mess of 3 broken frames cobbled together?

[lean garden]

Primes are not necessarily the first iteration of a frame, sometimes, frames can prove themselves suitable for a prime version to be developed off their base version's design

[grim hazel]

Ahh ok that makes more sense

[peak compass]

wow, I just did the jade shadows quest

that was pretty good

[smoky solstice]

if you do sisters he yaps all the damn time

"parvos, this candidate wants to be a sister" "disappointed father noises"

oh speaking of which

I only started doing sisters like a couple days ago

and like, I was always under the idea that being a sister is like the top of the corpus corporate ladder

but then if you stab a sister with the wrong stuff, she gets... promoted? how does that work exactly? what does being a sister mean?

and on the same note, why do they all have those BS corporate titles and not like legit ones? I mean I love the flavor but this makes it even more confusing, especially since the titles don't change after promotion

or wait, is it more of a "religious" title, given that some of the leadership in the corpus don't see exactly eye to eye with parvos?

[glacial bough]

No, it's a job title

[smoky solstice]

so what's up with the promotions

is there something above being a sister?

[glacial bough]

Vala if they stay under Parvps

[smoky solstice]

oh

ok actually now that I think about it, I'm really confused about the leadership structure here

because being a sister is female oriented, is the aspiration for men to become part of the board? and what is the sort of balance of responsibilities for the board and parvos + the sisters

[strange plinth]

"Created by Parvos Granum via methods unknown, Sisters of Parvos possess a form of immortality such that defeat only makes them stronger. Only through the use of forgotten Orokin rituals can a Sister be permanently defeated…"
from the sisters of parvos dialogue page on orokin archives
sisters are only related to granum's corpus, as far as i can tell

[smoky solstice]

but also, the Vala stays the same even if they do get promoted so it sorta seems like there's an inbetween there?

because why else would the sister level ups be considered "promotions"

[smoky solstice]

but it seems like a clear aspiration for all of the corpus, at least the females, given the captain's aspiration to become one in jade shadows

[glacial bough]

Yes, there are levels within the position of "sister". Vala is just outright above that wholesale

[smoky solstice]

it's still like a thing of the corpus at large, which is why I asked if it's more of a religious thing kinda separate from the operations of the corpus but kinda there for the "religious" aspect of the corpus (parvos and all that)

[glacial bough]

You still aspire to it because it means Parvos thinks you worthy

[smoky solstice]

but do they actually do anything in terms of the operations of the corpus

or is it just the board

[strange plinth]

n the fact that vala talks to her directly says that xeto's part of granum's sect of the corpus, and not the board's

[smoky solstice]

so there's kinda two different corpuses

one controlled by the board, the other controlled by parvos?

and they split because visions didn't align?

[strange plinth]

three, if you count perrin
but yeah

[glacial bough]

Every Board member had their own array of underlings

[smoky solstice]

it's still interesting to me though that Parvos is still worshipped inside the regular Corpus

not that that's contradictory necessarily, just interesting

[glacial bough]

That's part of why they have different names

[strange plinth]

the board's been active for a lot longer than granum's corpus, given that granum re-emerges during deadlock protocol to a sloth-ridden corpus
"Hmm… I have watched you. Monuments to narcissism. Demanding others sweat in your stead. Gorging upon that which you have not earned. Watched… as you claimed for yourself my teachings of self-reliance, perverting them into a flaccid philosophy of sloth. Of… idleness."
granted, he's talking about Nef Anyo here, exactly, but he is or was part of the board
the corpus still worshipped granum's name, but not his exact views

• the board tried to kill parvos

[smoky solstice]

yeah but it's all still under the general leadership of the Corpus, even if there's like different factions inside it with different internal leadership

but Parvos seems like something different entirely

so, given that I don't remember seeing one, women inside the regular Corpus aspire to the same thing - hopefully becoming a board member although probably not?

or is the board a lot more entrenched and the positions they seek are gonna be along the lines of CEO or something

[glacial bough]

Yeah, but the Board isn't a united faction. You could be a Board memebr but also be with Parvos

[smoky solstice]

you know what's kinda weird about it is still the BS titles the sisters are given, like that seems like commentary about corporate structures in general IRL, and it seems like Parvos views would diverge from having something like that

[smoky solstice]

oh

but wouldn't they kinda be working against the interests of the Corpus given that Parvos has specifically called the whole organization out?

seems like grounds to be booted off

[glacial bough]

Their title would mostly likely be a mix of actual job and stock resume talk up

You can't just be booted off the Board, and having Parvos in your corner is a good argument against it

Cause like, Parvos is still working for the Corpus ideal, make money above all else

[smoky solstice]

well I'd think that the Board wouldn't be so excited about Parvos. Like even if they keep up appearances for the general public, Parvos has gone out of his way to crap on the Corpus, it's a bit strange

[glacial bough]

Corpus like Nef are just scared that means Parvos is coming for their money

[smoky solstice]

hm maybe, I definitely interpreted his lines as more of a scathing critique about just how corporate it's become in that venture

[glacial bough]

That's where the more religious deification of Parvos comes in

[smoky solstice]

but that could just be disagreements on "business strategy" so to speak so maybe you're right there

not really taking risks to grow larger, just kinda playing it safe for a stable increase

[glacial bough]

Parvos can speak out, but he can't ust be wrong, it's Parvos Granum

[smoky solstice]

a pattern a lot of large corporations end up falling pray to - not actually maximizing efficiency, rather just keeping things as they are to maintain a steady growth

gradual changes to reduce risk of things going wrong

[smoky solstice]

I mean I get it, I was just more under the idea that there's a bit more conflict between Parvos and the Board, even if it isn't shown to the public to keep up appearances

more like a "we really don't want him but we can't exactly tell him to screw off" type of deal

but perhaps there's disagreement about that within the board as well so you're right, in that case Parvos supporters would essentialy be immune and the Corpus would kinda fracture as the different Board members try to achieve different goals, although all of them being for the Corpus at large

also, are all board members that are shown Orokin? like the grineer queens are, they continue to use continuity just as the orokin did, but what about the Corpus? Alad V for sure seems to be, I mean half of the characters referring to him literally call him "Orokin named Alad V" which I've always found amusing

but is the Board kinda like the Grineer queens, where they are all Orokin and they use continuity as well just as the queens, essentially making it so the leadership structure remains the same, as with the Orokin?

[strange plinth]

Alad V's kinda just the closest thing to an orokin the system has, apart from ballas. greedy, self-centered, hubris.
the board members probably aren't orokin. the corpus was a "rival" faction from their beginning, i doubt the orokin would let them know how to perform continuity.

we know they live for a hell of a long time, though
darvo's like a hundred at least and is still considered a child

[smoky solstice]

interesting

[glacial bough]

Alad is not an Orokin, Hunhow is generalizing

[smoky solstice]

I guess they have the tech to survive for a while

[smoky solstice]

oh, like he's from Orokin times?

kinda weird way to name someone by Hunhow but sure

it's still hilarious to me

it's like one of those "kid named" things, idk

[glacial bough]

Hunhow doesn't bother to note a difference.

[smoky solstice]

but wait, aren't the Queens Orokin? or did they just somehow learn continuity?

actually now that I think about it, maybe you're right since didn't the Tenno kill them all
I just thought that was more like the top Orokin leadership, but some Orokin leading other factions may have stayed alive and also used Continuity

[strange plinth]

yeah the queens were orokin, continuity'd into grineer bodies and continued to rule them
hence why they want your body during war within

[smoky solstice]

I mean continuity isn't only for the leadership, Albrecht Entrati used it and, although a well respected scientist, I never got the idea that he was one of the Seven or something

just like part of the aristocracy that enjoyed the benefits of being these "superior" beings

[smoky solstice]

ok gotcha, so yeah, the Tenno then just slaughtered the Seven specifically, which caused the empire to collapse

[stiff fable]

whut no, we went after every last Orokin we could find

We just missed a few spots

[lean garden]

Not just the Seven specifically, we had a whole lovely arena full

[smoky solstice]

ok now that just sounds like genocide

[stiff fable]

There were tens of thousands of Orokin, minimum

[strange plinth]

the Seven were on the list, definitely (although 2 seem to have escaped entirely)
but it was any orokin that we came across

[smoky solstice]

I guess that makes it a lot worse huh

[stiff fable]

It's not genocide if you're hunting monsters

[smoky solstice]

I more saw that as a direct confrontation against the leadership

leaving the civillians and all that behind

[stiff fable]

Like, the Entrati family just shrugs and says they deserved it

Every Orokin we meet in the story, including the nice ones, has stolen the body of a child at least once

Almost certainly more

[smoky solstice]

I mean it is, and it still makes it like pretty bad, if you do it against leadership, well these people are the ones kinda steering the ship, they're like direct combatants in a sense, but everyone they could come across? oof

puts a darker spin on that time period I wasn't aware of

[stiff fable]

I want to emphasize

Every last Orokin was a murderer and a storybook monster

It literally takes getting infested and unleashing the Indifference on physical reality to make the Entrati any kind of tolerable

[limber pulsar]

the seven were the main ones, but all the orokin are the leadership. theyre a ruling class not an ethnicity

[smoky solstice]

perhaps yeah, I don't mean to say they were good people but they also weren't the ones in charge, just kinda brought up in the system and doing what seemed normal

that doesn't excuse them, it moreso doesn't really place them in the crosshairs when you're trying to destroy an empire

because once that is done, what comes after should be, you know, rehabilitation, perhaps punishment, probably not just senseless retribution

[strange plinth]

mhm
the orokin, the high society monsters, were the targets
everyone below them were safe, though. grendel's leverian shows the targets, and the civilians

[stiff fable]

Also yes that it's a caste system

[smoky solstice]

well I never considered like Entrati or a lot of the other Orokin scientists we encounter as anything more than civillians, part of the aristocracy of course but still

[stiff fable]

Eleanor's nickname for Albrecht is the golden king

The Seven ruled the empire but the other Orokin ruled colonies, cities, stations and planets

It's not like they were bakers and truck drivers

[smoky solstice]

yeah but not all of them, there was a leadership obviously there too - governors, mayors, etc

[stiff fable]

The ones who didn't rule didn't work

They just benefited from the whole bodysnatching/mass torture thing

[smoky solstice]

it's like, if we were to take an irl example which I don't want to go into too much because it may get dicey, but like if you're going after a democratically elected president or like the police or the military, it makes sense, they're all part of the system that you're trying to destroy and once you do, you can rebuild a new one without anyone else having to be involved

but if you start massacaring everyone with the right to vote, well, I think at that point it's not really necessary or a direct confrontation of the leadership

[stiff fable]

You're misundertanding the situation entirely

It's more like, "cyberpunk megacorporation has taken over the city. Every last employee is a cannibal, no exceptions."

There are plenty of people in the city who have done nothing.

[smoky solstice]

I mean you said tens of thousands were Orokin, which seems to be the case, but the tens of thousands were not going to be directly controlling the empire or necessary for it, they're going to be like scientists and stuff

[stiff fable]

No, they were the power structure

And again, the issue is that each and every one of them was a bodysnatching childkiller

I'm not using this as a snarl word, this is what it meant to be Orokin

[smoky solstice]

I mean I wanna just step away from that for a second since we can go into the morality of this, but we first have to handle the first part

[stiff fable]

The first part is that they were bodysnatching childkillers

And built their entire civilization around it

[strange plinth]

yea, but those were outside of the orokin. Sectus, Enginus, Archimedians.
the blue-skinned immortal bodysnatchers are the orokin we massacred.

[stiff fable]

I really, strongly suggest you save your empathy for the people they were abusing

[smoky solstice]

which is whether or not they could be considered as being part of the so called "regime", or a police-type force, or a military-type force, aka a body which would directly control everything and get in the way of the Tenno

or if that was a part of the Orokin, the rest being essentially aristocrats with priveleges and the ability to have upper class positions, perhaps helping the empire indirectly, but having no control over it nor really being necessary casualties to end the regime

[glacial bough]

You can't because that is the morality of it. No matter what level you were at, the baseline Orokin is stealing bodies for personal vanity

[stiff fable]

They were part, yes

[smoky solstice]

this isn't about empathy, this is about morality, whether what the Tenno did was necessary, and if it wasn't, whether it was right to do

[stiff fable]

It was

The story has made clear.

[smoky solstice]

to which part

[stiff fable]

The characters have made clear.

The devs have made clear.

[glacial bough]

The Orokin were monsters and needed to die

[stiff fable]

Every last Orokin deserved to die

[tall echo]

The orokin were cruel, evil, aggressively selfish morons with god complexes

[glacial bough]

That is about the single agreed upon fact by everyone in the game

[smoky solstice]

yes but now you're talking about punishment for a crime and not tearing down the leadership structure, that's why I wanted to talk about this later because we first have to establish that no, they weren't necessary to kill, this was retribution

[stiff fable]

With no exceptions

Literally the collapse of civilization was preferable to the Orokin continuing to rule

[tall echo]

The tuvul messages on the zariman are a great example of how the orokin viewed the normal people

[stiff fable]

we know this because the people whose job it was to stop us from killing them think it's a really great thing that we killed them all

[glacial bough]

Now understand, there was definitely an underlying separate nobility that existed as we see in the Ash Leverian

[stiff fable]

Even though we killed a bunch of people that Teshin and Varzia knew and loved in the process of reaching the Orokin, they confirm it was objectively the right, moral and good thing that we hunted down every last one of the and destroyed human civilization

[smoky solstice]

yeah but now you're implying that killing all the how I see it civillians was necessary to stop the Orokin from continuing to rule, which I don't think we've established, since most of the justification you've given me is that they did really bad thigns, which I don't disagree on

[stiff fable]

Here's a fun challenge

Try and find one good Orokin

[limber pulsar]

there were innocent civilians in the orokin empire, but not the Orokins. all the capital O blue skinned Orokin were essentially multibillionaires who use all of their power to torment the lives below them

[glacial bough]

You would need to kill them else they just return to their major power

[stiff fable]

Pro-tip: you actually can't

Like, actually can not

[smoky solstice]

careful, I specifically said civillians, not innocent civillians

[glacial bough]

Even one Orokin means they can use all the super advanced tech no one around can really stop

[stiff fable]

There's no such thing

[smoky solstice]

again, not what this is about

[glacial bough]

We nearly had that with Nihil

[stiff fable]

No, it is, you're just being obtuse

The point is justice

[smoky solstice]

so we've established then that it was not necessary to kill the Orokin then?

all of them I mean

[limber pulsar]

there were no Orokin civilians is the thing

[stiff fable]

Each of them had committed the crimes

[smoky solstice]

so they were all in some way involved in the leadership to where they were necessary-to-kill obstacles essentially to make it so the Empire would fall?

[glacial bough]

Yes, every character establishes killing the Orokin was the correct thing to do

[stiff fable]

Yes

[strange plinth]

ok, you cut off the head of the orokin leadership: the seven (ignoring everything else that was going on, ballas' plans, sentients. etc.)
who picks up the mantle, if necessary?
anyone who knows how. who knows how? anyone who has undergone continuity (all of the orokin) can piece together the ritual and pick up the pieces of the Seven to continue ruling

[stiff fable]

As I've said four or five times now

[smoky solstice]

ok then why are you bringing all of this justice stuff in

[tall echo]

Leave an orokin alive and you end up with the grineer

[smoky solstice]

if it was necessary, it was necessary

[smoky solstice]

well no, you keep talking about how they've done really bad things and they deserve to die, that's not the same thing as it being necessary to kill them all for the empire to fall

[glacial bough]

It's both justice and necessary

[feral cape]

It is

[stiff fable]

oh for the love of hod

[feral cape]

If one orokin lives they can eventually just bring back the others

[stiff fable]

ANY Orokin could pick up a kuva staff and control any dax

[feral cape]

Its the nature of a metaphysical immortality

[stiff fable]

And thus reestablish the Orokin empire on the back of "having the strongest soldiers around"

[feral cape]

The orokin could very much revive eachother and just persist

[stiff fable]

This is literally the plot of War Within

[smoky solstice]

I mean I separate these two because of my morality and I guess I'm the only person here who disagrees on whether the proper way to handle this would be utilateral justice at the hands of the Tenno, in the case that it actually wasn't necessary to kill all the Orokin for the Empire to fall

so for me, the distinction is very important on necessity vs justice

[feral cape]

Killing the vast majority of them and causing a collapse to there technological power is the only way to ensure the orokin killed stayed dead

[stiff fable]

The Orokin in question established the Grineer Empire, who go around grinding up entire colonies of people into nutrient paste

This demonstrates that we needed to kill MORE Orokin, not less

[tall echo]

If an orokin wasn't evil and cruelly selfish they would not exist

[smoky solstice]

ok fair enough, I didn't really think about that

I mean it does feel like killing the Dax would be easier than killing all the Orokin although... is being Orokin necessary to be a Dax? I don't know the lore about them either all that deeply

don't know if it's one of those "only the aristocrats can be part of the military" types of deals which you would see in history irl

[tall echo]

Dax are just warriors

[smoky solstice]

oh so there would be a lot more yeah

fair enough

[stiff fable]

The Dax were the Orokin's equivalent of the Persian Immortals

[tall echo]

And the dax are mostly innocent

[stiff fable]

Soldiers they raised from childhood to be the hardest soldiers around, who were kept enslaved to their will

[tall echo]

Hell, every dax we meet wants to kill orokin too

Except isaah

[stiff fable]

We killed most of the dax on the way to the Orokin

[smoky solstice]

@stiff fable anyway, didn't mean to like argue really hard about this, just wanted to first find out about whether we needed to do what we did before I made my mind about the morality of the situation

I mean it still feels pretty insane, like that much killing being done, but I could say that it is probably for sure justified, although we may disagree on the fact that I don't think justice is a factor here

[stiff fable]

If the Orokin had merely been long-lived Philosopher Kings who wanted to see humanity spread across the stars the Sentients wouldn't have rebelled in the first place

[tall echo]

Teshin: asks to be allowed to kill an orokin as soon as he has the opportunity

Varzia: says that killing the orokin was a good thing and is even glad that we dissolve their memory storage devices

Umbra: umbra

[glacial bough]

Justice is definitely is a factor, the Tenno have their own pound of flesh to take from the Orokin

[stiff fable]

The need for justice is the entire point

The difference between the Sentient version and the Tenno version is that the Sentients are trying to kill every human while the Tenno just want to kill every Orokin

As we mentioned earlier this week, if the Sentients had just targeted the Orokin, we'd have teamed up to do it

[smoky solstice]

obviously all of the Orokin were aholes, not just aholes, they, as you said, basically killed people and took over their bodies, none of them were innocent

the reason I say it's not a factor is that based on my personal morality, I don't think that means that the solution is "kill them all", unless it's necessary, which based on Warframe's plot, it is necessary. But for me, that's the only thing that matters on whether you should kill them.

But don't mind me, I'm not gonna find many agreeers here, I mean I literally picked the "how'd I be any different" option in the Hex quest, which based on playthroughs I've seen, most people laugh that one off immediately, so it's like I'm a bit strict on this kind of deal

[strange plinth]

tbf, we in a way already had teamed up with the sentients to do it
ballas' betrayal x2 n all those shenanigans

[stiff fable]

LOL at the very end yeah

[smoky solstice]

anyway, a bit of a topic change, but I love how the memeification of Vor by DE

I mean the devs know what's up of course, and it's not just the classic Vor paragraph, I also love that when they decided to implement him in Duviri, or the Undercroft specifically, they did the same damn thing and every single time it makes me smile when the dude spawns in, and then gets cut off from his yapping when someone kills him immediately

I mean that had to be intentional, I don't think any other character works that way

and that also had to be intentional because they decided to give him yet another several minute long rant, it's like even if you're not dealing damage they want you to cut him off

[strange plinth]

i actually heard his entire rant in duviri the other day because he kept teleporting before anyone could kill him
the cutoff is incredible though, yes

[smoky solstice]

honestly before I found out about the whole meme, I was kinda surprised the first time, like he would usually just die before finishing his sentence, which I thought was funny but I also thought it was unintentional, then one time it stretched out and I was like "ok it's like you want to be cut off, how long is this" and later I found out about the meme and then it was like "oh ok, this makes sense now"

[merry axle]

question, am i supposed to do angel of zariman first or whisper in the wall lore wise ?

[smoky solstice]

angels of zariman I'd say

[merry axle]

ok

[restive river]

Angels first for sure

It takes place like
Right after the new war technically

[merry axle]

ok, how long are both quest ? i am wondering if i can do both in one sitting

[strange plinth]

medium length, maybe an hour or so each?
both run through a few new gamemodes

[restive river]

Angels is shorter and less lore heavy iirc, make sure you bring good gear and use the sirocco if you dont have any other amps

Whispers is longer and much more story heavy

Both unlock some great content afterward

[tall echo]

Your personal morality is almost too merciful

[smoky solstice]

make sure you check out the Entrati logs before delving all the way into Whispers, they should be available close to the beginning of the quest if you look around, it will help a lot in understanding the story of the quest

and Entrati's VA is always fun to listen to speak

I think Allison Tyler still has the best performance in warframe but he comes close

Stefan Rudnicki is his name apparently, he's so good

[dusky gulch]

what reason is there to be able to go inside this vent?

i saw interactable console on mini map but when i go there i cant

[humble sierra]

You go in during the New War, I believe

[dusky gulch]

is it side objective or u usualy do and ive forgotten xd

[tall echo]

It's the only path through to the elevator during tnw

[dusky gulch]

thnx

[digital grail]

You can go in it

I do it alot for literally no reason

[drifting mirage]

Ventkids live in the vents to boot

[burnt light]

Did the Orokin ever explored outside the Origin system? Unsure they ever done that

[graceful swan]

You're a product of them trying to do that

[burnt light]

Okay

[slow phoenix]

They sent the sentients to tau to try and colonise that system, but the sentients came back and started killing people

[proper barn]

We'll that might not have happened first

Before the Orokin tried to take over

[graceful swan]

Can't forget them sending kids to space before any of that

[burnt light]

Grineer and Corpus came after they fell?

[graceful swan]

Both Grineer and Corpus already existed before we murdered the Orokin

[burnt light]

Okay, lore of Warframe sometimes confuses me I mix things up

[graceful swan]

Grineer were slaves during Orokin era

[tall echo]

And in a way they still are

[digital grail]

Even still orokin slaves

I kinda want a full cinematic quest set in the old war

[slow phoenix]

The orokin were already in charge of the system, they only weren't after the old war ended and the tenno did a silly

[proper barn]

No?

[tall echo]

I think bevjoejoe means they were in charge of the origin system

[old dome]

???????

OH yeah i think thats the sequence of events,,, dont forget that at some point around the orokin empire albrecht discovered void & how to harness that energy for travel

[tall echo]

That... is not relevant here

[slow phoenix]

yeah albrecht discovered the void like, a WHILE into orokin rule
by the time the tenno came around the orokin had been ruling the system for all of known history

[old dome]

we're talking abt orokin empire ofc its relevant

[tall echo]

We're talking about why the sentients attacked

[river tangle]

i just remember something about that hacked emails found in a computer in front of aoi...

who would even thought that making an abomination of boy band members is a good idea

let alone that'll replace the actual boy band members

[normal mountain]

A guy named Gregory V
Assuming the V is his surname, that should tell you almost all you need to know

he's also On-lyne's manager, and is fed up with them acting entitled

[river tangle]

all that for a (presumed) revenge i suppose 😦

which had caused hollvania getting infected with the whole techrot

[normal mountain]

Not really revenge
More like he wanted manageable puppets to make him money

Which ain't much better

[humble sierra]

It seems the Technocyte Coda is implied to have started off as programs that would act like OnLyne— basically AI chatbots that would sing and do radio interviews, allowing the real OnLyne more time in live performances. Then management's greed got out of hand and they probably wanted actual clones of OnLyne to replace them, but clearly something went awry, creating the Techrot plague.

[hoary vapor]

I don't think there's evidence of them being entitled and snobbish.

But rather I think they're not doing so well with Greg V being greedy and breathing down on their necks. Plus, the pressure of stardom can make them snap. The actor of Zeke did say that Zeke is a good guy who can't control himself

[restive river]

It should be noted that Scaldra apparently had a hand in it too according to Aoi when talking about the hack

If I had to guess Scaldra wanted to further their methods of controlling the citizens of Höllvania through media as Warsector seems to be another case where they attempted to use the infestation to create media and it went horribly wrong.

[humble sierra]

Omg I didn't consider the Warsector thing

[restive river]

Yeah, we kinda forgot about it for the most part since we don’t see it in game

[humble sierra]

Where they had that Warsector trailer and then a found-footage promo of someone at DE trying to run away from an unseen creature

[restive river]

But considering that media is everywhere in Höllvania as is coupled with the infested media attempts it def seems like Scaldra’s plan was to create media to control citizens and it went horribly wrong
This also can explain why they just so happen to have Everfon, they were already working with it so they knew what would hurt it.

[restive river]

It was def implied that the infestation was automating the game making process, sending out automated emails to get people to come in to further its processes

[hoary vapor]

I think as much as Scaldra's trying to prep for the worst case sceanrio, there are hints that the Techrot secretly has the upper hand I believe

Like Arthur warning that Viktor has no idea what Scaldra's going into, and he isn't talking about the Hex.

[humble sierra]

whoops I meant to send this to a different channel

[restive river]

These are awesome lol

[restive river]

We know the infestation survives this whole ordeal cause like
The Orokin use it
Plus it seems it’s involved in at least the eighteenth radiation war

[humble sierra]

Thank you!!!

[drifting mirage]

But also, alternate reality

[strange plinth]

?

[drifting mirage]

1999 is not the main Warframe timeline.

[strange plinth]

it is though?
we know its the same because the coda will persist

• we have to stay in the past to safeguard the right outcome

[limber pulsar]

it very explicitly is

[drifting mirage]

Maybe I'm misguided

[proper barn]

no it is.

[silk atlas]

Two words: Technocyte Coda 😎

That was meant to be a reply but whatever, my point is getting across

[restive river]

It is.

[restive river]

You are in fact misguided

Either you interpreted things incorrectly or you listened to the wrong theory

[north jolt]

Amir finally getting the Fables and Frontiers campaign he wanted

[humble sierra]

Yep that (along with Neil Newbon and Amelia Tyler being in both games) is what inspired me to do this

[quartz sky]

Good evening lore heads

1999 is like the Star wars shows that take place before the prequels

[smoky solstice]

Isn't there a little more to it in some sense? Like it felt like a bit of a trap based on the ARG logs

Like they were needed to perform some tasks (iirc pretty basic ones? I don't remember exactly) and then they were trapped and couldn't escape the building

Although I guess the latter part may just be to cover it up by killing everyone who's worked on it but it feels like there would've been a cleaner way to do that

Idk exactly the extent of War Sector, clearly the infestation was being used to develop it and companies all around Hollvania, in partnership with the Hollvanian government, used the infestation in their projects

But it's just strange that that person gets led to these completely empty offices by some unknown being to perform some basic tasks and then gets trapped in there

As if the whole company weren't a real thing, it definitely gives me like Lethal Company vibes, with the similarities making me even think if DE was going for a similar idea regarding the in-universe Digital Extremes

I don't think that's the case but perhaps it's not totally out of the question to think the actual game development part of the company is just mainly the infested, sometimes bringing in people who get killed afterwards to perform tasks they can't on their own

Which is another weird part by the way - programming related tasks they can't perform on their own? I mean it's not out of the question but it's also a thing of like couldn't they program it on their own? It seems like they have a familiarity with tech. What do they need people for?

[quartz sky]

Average job interview tech startup

[smoky solstice]

Oh actually it seems like you came to the same conclusion regarding the in-universe DE now that I reread this, it just seems strange that this is the way the infested choose to go about it - trapping people and killing them, and also the fact that the infested need programming tasks to be done by humans when it seems like they should be able to handle that on their own?

Idk, maybe it's partially the infested using this to also spread themselves among humans, continue to spread, rather than just cleaning things up so this doesn't get out

[quartz sky]

I mean the infestation by nature is very good at spreading itself, but is it intelligent enough to code computer viruses and stuff?

It seems "smart" to me in the sense that mycelium is smart when it comes to making connections amongst other fungi and tree roots

But it's methods are pretty simple. Even fighting the enemies doesn't show many with a level of complex thinking that can thwart us

Anyone watching the anime Tower of God?

There's an ai situation that's very similar to me vibe wise as in it's job is to lead people to a lab

And give certain people certain information to lead to them going to the lab

[restive river]

It’s possible it needed humans more for their creativity and not strictly their coding power
Though I could also see it utilizing human brains as better processors than the computers they already inhabit and control

[jolly briar]

i am once again asking for your input, is 1999 time travel or going to a diff reality

[restive river]

Time travel.

[jolly briar]

alright

[restive river]

It is not an alternate reality

We are just literally changing the literal past

[jolly briar]

well, im sure that will have 0 long lasting effects

[restive river]

The Coda seem to be about it so far

As we make them in the past and confront them in the origin system

Its also so far in the past that I think most of what we do won’t really have much of an effect
Like we’re mostly staying to maintain the changes we made and safeguard against Wally ig

[jolly briar]

i get the feeling so far is the opperative phrase there

[restive river]

But like
The Orokin will still happen

[restive river]

Oh def
Time will tell but I do think a lot of history will largely be the same

[jolly briar]

fair, not a ton will change but if theres anything they want to retcon now is the time

[restive river]

Like how we literally alter history in Duviri with the defense objective
We are changing things but it doesn’t change everything

[restive river]

I’m not sure there is anything to retcon tbh

[jolly briar]

i doubt it but there might be something here or there, time will tell ig

[restive river]

Like the Infestation still predate the Orokin
Only thing I can maybe think of is maybe relating to the radiation wars but. We already know like nothing about those

[jolly briar]

maybe a chance to see more about past wars

[restive river]

At least it’d be a retcon with an explaination not just a change for changes sake

I do think the radiation wars may be important to some extent
Cause
Why would they be mentioned?

I really hope we see the Lephantis guy mentioned in the zariman quiz talking about the arctic hive cluster during the eighteenth radiation war

[jolly briar]

yeah they were just kinda "hey this happend, anyways"

[restive river]

Yeah lol

Like the plague year was mentioned ages ago via the Mire and now we’re literally experiencing it via time travel

Y’know never what they’ll wanna explore next

Like I would love to see more on just how the Orokin got in power

[jolly briar]

and why long arm was considered fashionable

[restive river]

I was to some extent expecting some codex logs maybe talking about the precursor Orokin in 1999, presumably the 1999 government or perhaps even Scaldra

[quartz sky]

My own personal theory is that they'll make changes on earth maybe to reflect a small ripple from 1999 but if we're talking sci Fi timeline there's a chart/meme somewhere explaining options better

[restive river]

The rich and powerful have always been stupid about fashion :p

[jolly briar]

fair... looks at the urinestain gucci pants that were really expensive

[restive river]

Maybe, but realistically there shouldn’t be too big of changes
The Origin System is so far in the future and Earth has changed so much as is that I really doubt we’d see any ripple beyond the Coda

[quartz sky]

(in history I remember learning about deformities from royal family Inc*st becoming trends that rich people would body mod to replicate.)

[quartz sky]

Oh yeah. Maybe a slightly higher population but that's all I can think of

Will the proto frames age?

[restive river]

No, they’re stuck in the loop we maintain

[quartz sky]

Fair

[restive river]

They’re kinda just
Stuck in a moment in history so that we and they can maintain the changes ig

[quartz sky]

I forgot that part

[restive river]

They’re basically immortal now like how the Drifter was during their Duviri days

[quartz sky]

Right

[restive river]

Which is why we have the convos about Duviri that we have, helping them cope with loop immortality

[quartz sky]

Right rjght

[jolly briar]

i get the feeling theres going to be a lot more trauma for the operator, since drifter needs to focus on containment

[restive river]

The Drifter can leave freely and will do so for what comes next

Which does seem to be Tau
At some point
Apparently

[quartz sky]

The operator can meditate and process while I have my drifter do everything

Or play videogames with ordis idk

[jolly briar]

get a new score or happy zephyr

[restive river]

I do hope we get some focus on the Operator next tbh, like what exactly they’re up to while Drifter is in 1999

[strange plinth]

(dealing with the coda)

[restive river]

We should get a caliber chicks machine so the Operator can play

[jolly briar]

yeah im curious how the kid is doing

[restive river]

Probably bad judging by lotus eaters

[jolly briar]

oh yeah... that

[quartz sky]

The instrument thing from duviri was an interesting mechanic. I've seen games attempt guitar hero stuff on PC/switch games but this was was actually challenging at times

[jolly briar]

cant wait for space mom to disapear again ;w;

[swift steppe]

what yall think de gonna do with stalker's child

[quartz sky]

I wish I could improvise the instrument though

[jolly briar]

side story

[quartz sky]

Or write things

[restive river]

Ngl I wish it was more challenging

[swift steppe]

whattttttt its side story?? i thought it was main story too

[restive river]

Buy a shawzin

[strange plinth]

nothing, for a while
tbh i'm afraid of most things they could do with it

[quartz sky]

Yesss

[swift steppe]

why tho

[quartz sky]

WAIT CAN I OMG

[restive river]

YES
YOU CAN BUY SO MANY LOL

[jolly briar]

for both of you, theres songs for it online you can get

[quartz sky]

Yesssss

[jolly briar]

you can get one free

[restive river]

also if you play every duviri shawzin song you get a free shawzin

[quartz sky]

Omg

[jolly briar]

complete every song on easy and hard

[restive river]

Also there’s shawzin prime
Do not sleep on shawzins

[quartz sky]

Excellent

[jolly briar]

i need shawzin melee skin

[restive river]

REAL

[quartz sky]

The ability to change frets and chords is very cool

[restive river]

Also if you use octavia you get a beat

Idk the term, I forgot ):

[quartz sky]

I know what you mean

[jolly briar]

tempo

?

[restive river]

The focus is likely more on the void arc but the stalker’s child story is a main quest and will be relevant again

[quartz sky]

Metronome?

[restive river]

Yes metronome

[swift steppe]

ahh alrighty then

[restive river]

I think?
If you have her and get a shawzin it should say

[jolly briar]

yeah i mean like main but sorta side quest yk

[quartz sky]

My greatest enemy

[jolly briar]

like the will connect in 3 or 4 updates

[swift steppe]

right

[restive river]

You should look up a video on all the shawzins so you know what they sound like before you buy any

[quartz sky]

I think when the stalker child is a teenager the stalker will need dad help and ask us

[swift steppe]

im so hyped up for infested liches or whatever its called/written

[restive river]

I fan reasonably see the child being relevant for the void arc ngl
Just cause it’s a very unique being and it seems Wally likes unique beings

[restive river]

Infested/Coda liches

[swift steppe]

ahahah imagine its would be very funny cuz were technically a child too

[jolly briar]

drifter... my son is wearing dresses and im so mad...doesnt he know he looks better in skirts

[restive river]

Funny boy band

[quartz sky]

Idk, I mean we can date the hex so I imagine we're not that young anymore

[swift steppe]

YEAH i heard the infested liches are made from the on lyne dudes

[restive river]

I love that Stalker isn’t mad his son may be trans or is crossdressing
He’s mad cause they’d look better in skirts
Good dad

[swift steppe]

like idk if it makes sense sorry but i read that somewhere

[restive river]

They’re clones of them yes

[swift steppe]

i was talking about OP tho

[quartz sky]

Ah

[swift steppe]

wait i might have forgotten is OP the one that helped stalker or is it drifter??

[restive river]

In Aoi’s shop there’s a computer at the counter that talks about the Coda and On-Lyne

[restive river]

It was Operator

[swift steppe]

yeah so its a kid

[jolly briar]

thats unironically one of my favorite jokes, that and the makeup version of it

[quartz sky]

Babysitting arc?

[swift steppe]

no way! i never noticed that im genuinely so hyped even tho i dont know anything about liches

[jolly briar]

https://tenor.com/view/donovan-melero-inside-out-donovan-melero-gif-3344622141882727430

[restive river]

Also they made it so the Operator cannot date the hex
Mentally they’re old but physically still a child
It’s another reason why the Drifter went, they’re an adult physically and mentally

[swift steppe]

ive been playing for like 6months im addicted

[jolly briar]

basically coda lore

[restive river]

We’ll get more info when they come out and on the devstream

[swift steppe]

yeah it would be kinda weird if OP could date them...

[swift steppe]

lmaooo but who is coda

[restive river]

Also Scaldra had a hand in the clones apparently according to Aoi l

[swift steppe]

makes sense

[restive river]

Coda is the name of the strain

Like Grey Strain
Helminth Strain
Etc etc

[quartz sky]

Probably will have an age up situation with the op eventually

[restive river]

Probably not

[swift steppe]

oh! okay it makes more sense now thanks

[jolly briar]

coda and onlyne lore i should say

voice cracking operatorr when

[swift steppe]

where is the onlyne lore tho???? i see everyone talking about them like theres a book of lore but all ik from them is that they are a boys band and that they make fire music anything else idk

[restive river]

The Operator will likely stay as they are ngl
Just cause I can’t see them retiring the model, instead they found the compromise of Drifter

[jolly briar]

by aoi there a pc you can use

[swift steppe]

but they WILL have to update the model eventually cuz if we make the comparison HEX - OP/DRIFTER, OP and drifter are so disgustingly ugly im sorry

[restive river]

The counter in Aoi’s shop has most of it ngl
You can get some from the hex chats ig
But we largely don’t have much other than we know the original boys are safe and we will be fighting the Coda clones

[quartz sky]

I mean the original model will always stay as part of the early game. I just feel weird jumping to a kid now

[jolly briar]

in a very tldr:manager cloneing them against their will

[quartz sky]

I stay on drifter

[restive river]

They are going to update the model just like
Not to an adult

[swift steppe]

i didnt know that next time i go in hollvania ill go see her

[restive river]

It’s to the left of her iirc
You should be able to find it, goodluck

[swift steppe]

yeah i guess i just hope one day we get OP/DRIFTER good looking like the hex

[swift steppe]

thank you very much

[quartz sky]

My op is really ugly and maybe that's the only issue I have

And his voice is really whiney

[swift steppe]

sameee i stay with drifter cause my op is ugly

[restive river]

Iirc on the forums they’re wanting suggestions on what to do with the Operator’s face which may or may not expand to the Drifter

[swift steppe]

forums?? like warframe forums or reddit? lol

[restive river]

The thing is
It’s def harder to make the modular system look good vs the Hex since. Those are very different

[restive river]

Warframe forums

[swift steppe]

ah alr i never go on there

[jolly briar]

honestly just make the op cut back on the oily foods, they sweat olive oil istg

[restive river]

They’ve had their own forums since like
The start ig

I mostly go on there for patchnotes

[swift steppe]

i didnt know ive been playing for like 6months lol i mostly get my warframe thingys off game on reddit

[restive river]

Hopefully they’ll discuss it on the devstream/later this hear

[quartz sky]

For sure. I think it's their slightly lumpy models for humans in general. The earth models are very strange on cetus. Turned me off of the game the first time I tried to play jt

[swift steppe]

LMAooo cetus human are disgusting they are SO ugly its hilarious i hate them so much

[restive river]

Hope you’re having fun!
Def check out the forums, if not just for what the devs share

[jolly briar]

also the bugs can be funny sometimes

[swift steppe]

im enjoying it a lot i already have like 500hrs and im OBSESSED with the new soundtrack they made with 1999

i literally only listen to that now

i think im addicted to warframe

[restive river]

they cooked ngl

[jolly briar]

or helpful, like heavy slam momentum transferring into atomicycle

[swift steppe]

ive been playing for 12hrs today but its like that for literally everyday am i cooked

[restive river]

Remember to drink water

[quartz sky]

It gets super addicting. I'm grateful that eventually you run out of stuff to do, or you'll get bored

[jolly briar]

real, im at like 1200 hours in a year xd

[restive river]

Also def tune in to the devstream this friday

[swift steppe]

i always run out of stuff cause that helminth thing is just a straight up pig!!!!

[quartz sky]

Lmaoo

[restive river]

I’ve been playing since 2019 and I’m at 4100+ hours

[swift steppe]

yessss i will i think its the only game i actually follow on twitch (i despise twitch)

[swift steppe]

thats crazy

[restive river]

Actually its def more than that cause I used to play on Switch a lot

[swift steppe]

whats yalls favorite frame lore

like the actual warframe not the game

[quartz sky]

Tbh I know people complain about the specs with public matches but I love playing it on the switch

[jolly briar]

mirage

[swift steppe]

why

[jolly briar]

literally too spiteful to die

[swift steppe]

i dont know her lore but thats rough

[jolly briar]

she was smiling and laughing while becoming a warframe

[swift steppe]

ok thats weird

[jolly briar]

she wasnt supposed to be a jester, but her happiness literally made ballas' intention not work

so, too spiteful to die as intended

that or dagath for how in depth it is

[restive river]

Lavos or the tiny bits (and my personal theories) on Xaku

Lavos’ whole leverian is just such a good story

[swift steppe]

DUDE i looked into dagath and i saw people saying she was having sexual relations with idk who and i got a little bit worried cuz i like her a lot

she has a horse and i love horses so i farmed for her (ALONE absolute torture)

and then i see this??? what the freak

[swift steppe]

why tiny bits tho

[jolly briar]

yeah she was forced into....a lot

[restive river]

Oh yeah Dagath was with an Orokin couple but they dumped her when she got turned into a frame cause it was. More acceptable to be with a frame?

[swift steppe]

that does not even make sense but whatever i guess

i also really like yareli

[jolly briar]

we have a nuclear reactor, a masochist, and a skater girl with a bubble gun

[swift steppe]

nuclear reactor qorvex???

[jolly briar]

yes lol

[swift steppe]

who is the masochist

[restive river]

I love everything about Xaku
The concept of lost warframes from void expeditions coming back as this composite, neither he nor she but something else entirely
And also my own personal theories on them and their prime
Also their deluxe skin and the Lotus skin that comes with it, Lotus’ whole arc really pairs well with Xaku’s concept as they’re very similar. 3 as 1.

[jolly briar]

garuda

[restive river]

Harrow whips himself

[swift steppe]

WHAT do you mean by masochist

[jolly briar]

or mirage

[swift steppe]

ALRIGHT bro i already knew harrow is freaky but not a this point

[restive river]

Garuda does also hurt herself yeah

[swift steppe]

DUDE why are there so many freaky frames

[jolly briar]

garuda is literally a emo girl, she hurts herself on purose

[restive river]

The devs are as freaky as the players

[jolly briar]

purpose*

(i can make that joke i used to do that xd)

[restive river]

Source: the hex exist
and wisp
and that one styanax skin

[swift steppe]

tell me your theories cuuuuzz i wanna know

[quartz sky]

There's some edgelord elements

[jolly briar]

and ember heirloom

[restive river]

also just sevagoth lmao

[swift steppe]

EMBER heirloom is freakness maxxing

freak prime i'd say

[jolly briar]

they literally gave her a cat TWT

[swift steppe]

wdym by that

[jolly briar]

i aint gonna elaborate

[swift steppe]

brother WHAT DO YOU MEAN

[jolly briar]

-# deep bow and captura, do investigating for how thhe skin seams togehter

[swift steppe]

i dont think i will..........

[restive river]

So there’s 2
Base Xaku is the result of conceptual embodiment to some extent, mostly just the void reacting to the emotions of some of the lost and broken frames from the entrati void expeditions, which is why Xaku is so intertwined with the void aswell.
Then there’s Xaku Prime who I theorize is the result of Albrecht recreating the original Xaku in his own image as they share the same specific obol designs and I don’t think Ballas knew of voidtongue or the reqiuems really and Xaku has multiple reqiuems in their ability names.
Plus they’re literally the entrati/voidframe so it just makes even more sense to me
Plus you can add on the fact that recreating the broken Warframe would be good practice for designing Qorvex and manipulating the helminth strain for the Hex

[jolly briar]

also in my defense i was genuinely just trying to understand how the skin worked TWT

[swift steppe]

alright i see thats pretty cool if one day its cannon

[jolly briar]

i like design okay ;w; and some skins/maps have weird things

[swift steppe]

also qorvex is just fallout/metro exodus reference yall cannot change my mind he literally makes the same noises

[jolly briar]

nah hes a chernobyl ref

[swift steppe]

he is chernobyl fallout metro exodus ref

lmaooo

[restive river]

Same!
We don’t have much for Xaku but what we do have is great :)
do you wanna see their original description? Cause it’s where the entrati expeditions are mentioned

[swift steppe]

yeah why not lol

my fav frame lore is jade i think

[restive river]

Jade’s story is very good

[swift steppe]

i cried at the end its so sweet

sweet ending very pretty

[swift steppe]

alright but why cant he kill thrax then

[restive river]

Kinda wish her extra lore bits weren’t out of the way in Teshin’s area but
It’s okay cause at least its more lore and confirms Stalker’s a frame

[lean garden]

holup, is that still not their description?

[restive river]

No, DE altered a bunch of frames descriptions a while back for some reason
Unless stated otherwise I consider this one and others to be canon

[swift steppe]

true did u know in drifter camp when u take jade and see ordis like to buy jade's thingys he can appear its so so so cute

i have a screenshot if you want to see

[restive river]

*they
And because the void damage Xaku deals is different for gameplay purposes iirc

[swift steppe]

ahh i see

[restive river]

Yes, I love that he comes to pay respects for his fallen partner

I can’t wait to see what happens with Stalker

[swift steppe]

its soooooo cute its such a sweet detail

who are the acolytes lore wise cause for me theyre just really really mean stalker

[restive river]

Iirc we dont have any lore on them 😔

They’re possibly also frames but
I don’t think we have much of anything on them

[lean garden]

"weirdos"

[swift steppe]

damn so theyre really just mean stalkers

[restive river]

Stalkers of the stalker

[swift steppe]

anyways, did yall know the lyrics of the new songs actually have a meaning behind them

i mean i guess yall know i just wanna talk about the songs

[fathom ridge]

Can you talk about it?

[swift steppe]

if i want to i can

i read that party of your lifetime is actually about infected something something and that the great despair's lyrics are about the murmur or something like that i dont remember everything but its something like that

but its just theories so...... who cares? i guess idk

[fathom ridge]

So you're trying to say that the lyrics are connected to either infestation or murmur?

[swift steppe]

thats what im saying

the great despair is more murmur focused

and party of your lifetime is more infestation focused

[fathom ridge]

The theory is interesting though

[swift steppe]

if you listen to party of your lifetime when idk who says "invested" we can hear "infested"

like first time i listened to it i heard infested but ITS NOT INFESTED

the whole song makes me think about on lyne on stage releasing spores that will infect the population idk how to say it sorry im not english native

[fathom ridge]

Pfft I would've thought infested as well, but the choice of words itself is pretty interesting.

[swift steppe]

and at the and of the great despair if i remember correctly it makes the same of tempo or idk the right word that the murmur does

if hes the one who did rap tap tap idk what i dont remember i got memories issues but anyway

im too invested

[swift steppe]

yes it is

just hear me out, the OST like soundtack you hear when youre doing missions in 1999 are also about the HEX members you can see that on the WIKI

[river tangle]

bingo

[normal mountain]

They flub that lyric on purpose, I'm sure

[swift steppe]

wdym

what does flub mean?

[lean garden]

mess up

[swift steppe]

mhhh why would they tho

[normal mountain]

The word is 'invested' but they pronounce it to sound sorta like 'infested'
Sort of a play on words

[swift steppe]

oh yeah i see but why would they mess it up on purpose other than to talk about the infested idk i might be too dumb to understand

or im way too deep in theory crafting

[river tangle]

literally all the foreshadowing in that party of your lifetime song

[swift steppe]

ah alright

anyways i hope DE continues to do fire music like they did with 1999 cuz im obsessed and i want more

[smoky solstice]

Yo what does the requiem mod poem mean?

The one Albrecht recites in the Lohk log

I mean this might be an ESL thing but I don't understand like a lot of these words, but even inferencing them, I'm not really sure how to interpret the ending of "we end as we began"

Ofc a lot of it relates to the Void, but how?

Oh it refers to the Lohk mod I guess, since that's where the poem starts, not just the fact that it's the Lohk log but the fact that the first line is from the Lohk flavor text? But I am really not sure what "in brooding gulfs are we beheld by that which bears no name"

Latter part probably is referring to Wally but I'm not sure what a "brooding gulf" means, I guess it's just referring to the state of mind of like thinking about this mess?

In which case the ending is about all of this living in his head rent free?

Idk I'm really trying here lol

Oh that actually makes a lot of sense

Because most of it seems to be describing the Void in some way, all of it except the last line and the first line
Not sure how to interpret the "from cosmic forms to tangeant planes" part but the "we end as we began" part I think makes sense in this context

But also now I'm reading about it again and I'm not sure
Like it's not even clear if all of these connect to one another, it seems like the answer is no, and it would make sense because the text on the mods would make no sense if they were meant to be read together. But perhaps Khra and Lohk are supposed to be read together? My head is spinning

The use of the word "we" is also making me confused, because without it, it would seem like Albrecht poetry about what he saw out there and all that

But then why is he saying "from brooding gulfs are WE beheld by that which bears no name"

Anyway, hope y'all have figured this out, this is one part of the Albrecht logs that I can't seem to grasp completely

And it seems significant with the ending of the poem, especially with how the VA says it

[lean garden]

Xata. Truth. It began long before us, we who now live our perfect and dull, endless lives. It began long before these moon-palaces and body-markets hurling around our golden Sun. It began long before our light-coil thinkers, our radiation wars, our oil, smoke…. It began with us. The continuity and its twin, wanderlust. The need for unseen shores deep in our marrow. No judge, jester, queen, or king can escape this old blood. We are nomads, eternal. And when no ocean, mountain, or sky could contain us… our gaze hungered star-ward. Afar, they mocked us with their brittle light. Winking and jeering like dangling Ayatans forever out of reach, illuminating the truth: immortal as we are – we die with the Sun. That's where I come in.

[smoky solstice]

Oh that's the man who bears no name then, not an actual entity, just the sort of drive of the Orokin for all of this

[lunar flume]

Lore on Sephalon Samodeus when?

[smoky solstice]

Honestly that was the other main theory of mine, that this is sort of a scathing commentary on the Orokin but I can't exactly make all of it work in my head

All of the different parts

The "we end as we began" part works great but

Unless the "carrion hordes" trilling their "profane accord with eldritch plans" is referring to the Orokin?

I mean "eldritch" felt like it was referring to a cosmic entity but idk

[vale hawk]

honestly umbra should be able to walk around the orbiter drifter camp or maybe the backroom

[smoky solstice]

But "from cosmic forms to tangeant planes, we end as we began", that works perfect, referring to the same type of stupid ambitions of the Orokin now leading them not just towards the stars but towards this sinister realm that they should not f around with

[lean garden]

you mean in the game? because he does in the lore

[smoky solstice]

Oh it's "to cosmic forms from tangeant planes", still makes sense, I think it's referring to void travel

[vale hawk]

in game yeah i know he does because when in jade shadows asks if stalker is umbra i just wish we could see it

[smoky solstice]

Anyway, do you have like a theory on what all of it means

The parts in between the beginning and the end

Because I'm still not sure whether that's referring to the Void or not, I mean some of it has to

[lean garden]

currently dont have the brain space for that in this moment (working on a project that I am way behind on), but when I get to it Ill let you know

[smoky solstice]

Oh gotcha, good luck on your project

[frosty latch]

i swear if i put all this time into ranking up the hex and dating AOI , and the indifference touches her , i'm gonna crash out

[digital grail]

Don't worry nothing will happen

What rank are you?

[sage stratus]

That is true, we even see ordis ask if umbra is walking around while your playing stalker in jade shadows

[tall echo]

Jade shadows implies that stalker could just go to our orbiter whenever he wants

[graceful swan]

Too bad he can’t get to the Backroom whenever he wants

[old dome]

its entertaining to imagine what he'd do in such a relatively small, confined space in... well. space. does he just pace around aimlessly if tenno isnt dragging him to murder grineer & corpus??

does he play komi w ordis? play the shawzin to pass the time? ...does he do any decorations?

[woven coyote]

Still hope we someday get a full feature smiles from juran song

[old dome]

i feel like if its at camp he'd just meditate in the mountains

[stiff fable]

Discuss

[strange plinth]

yeah that's correct, no discussion needed

[strange turtle]

Margulis did die for our sins

Said sin was not going feral on Ballas upon first interaction back in the Old War

[restive river]

Our “sin” was existing and her liking more than the dude named Balls

[old dome]

its true; ballas is a pos & fridged her for his own """"angst""""

[proper barn]

Yes

It's both.

More the second one.

[stiff fable]

Damn, real

[raw stone]

Imagine if the future indifference faceoffs use our chosen hex to taunt us

Or Rusulka in the event that we don't have anyone romanced, like Kalymos

[barren jasper]

"Three are the principles,
three the weaving ways.

Cool water flows,
the moon behind a cloud;
To the receptive mind
All things come in time.

Sun at mid-heaven,
Sovereign above all;
Mind in firm action
Commits without reflecting.

Between sun and moon
Unfolds a winding path;
Not by one Way alone
Is Mastery achieved.

Let me explain, Child. The words I speak to you have purpose. The choices you've been forced to make have not attuned you to 'good' nor 'evil', but to older, less subjective principles. You must find comfort in your choices, for your enemies will provide you none. The road ahead will be one that requires more choices of you, Child. Be ready."

• the choice system

[upbeat glacier]

That's a terrible idea

The indifference would need therapy lol

The region chat had a similar question asked and let's just say

Yikes

[raw stone]

||To be fair, in those instances, I'm saying the Indifference is trying to effectively make us hit hard. Harder than it tried, and failed, to hit Albrecht.|| Sorry, 1999 spoilers.

Anyway I think it's a banger idea to make us contort in anger to illicit something out of the drifter and I will accept my prophecy award later.

[upbeat glacier]

I'm goofing

But fr my abridged theory is that the indifference was created by watching region chat

[raw stone]

Well I mean... I'm sure Albrecht was truly in something the first time the indifference attacked him in that time. But for all we know, we could've seen several thousand routines from Wally before we jumped into 1999. Also it seems, consistently, that Albrecht remembers. I'm not sure how. but he does. Could be since he created the New Year's loop he only remembers. But... the way he made the loop was through the reactor implosion. It feels perhaps too... physical to be given weight but idk.

[tall echo]

Murmur weak to radiation. Reactor boom made to fight wally? Perhaps

[raw stone]

I'm droning away from the subject at hand. Yeah. Hex being used to torment us by the Indifference. Idk. Using their fake battered body to illicit responses out of us? Idk. Classic villainry tactic. We also... unfortunately... don't know what the wall's true deal is.

[raw stone]

OH TRUE. Yeah probably that.

Idk. I'm applying our physics to fantastical physics. Alchemy apparently exists in Warframe's universe... albeit it may just be something else entirely. No matter.

[tall echo]

Cyanface's most recent art channel post made me realize that

[raw stone]

Could be chemical recombination too. A toxic chemical and a naturally reactive chemical to make a toxic gaseous vapor on oxidization?

Plus other such things. Before Alchemy existed on Deimos' lab tileset and Duviri's missions... I kinda thought the elemental combinations were sorta just... on principle rather than anything actual. Of course Heat and Electric makes Radiation.
Of course Cold and Electric make Magnetic. There can be super-cooled magnets. Albeit... the electric part doesn't click with me. Nor does Corrosive's constituents... or Blast.

[tall echo]

Cold and heat can make serious pressure

[raw stone]

I always understood Blast as like...

Firecrackers, but huge.

[quartz sky]

I think of metal or glass shattering when it's really hot/cold and touches the opposite temp

But also pressure zones with weather

[normal mountain]

I understand corrosive, probably because I was a chemistry major
might help to think of battery acid

might not, dunno

[raw stone]

Oh true.

Let's see... we covered... Gas, Radiation, Viral is pretty... self-explanatory; Corrosive, Magnetic? And maybe Blast?

[limber pulsar]

there are so many ways to make bombs using just ice and heat

[smoky solstice]

DE just posted the whispers in the walls soundtrack on spotify

apparently also a matthew chalmers special

honestly anyone else think that one part in like the main song kinda sounds like something from a superhero movie? the one in the hex finale, the final part of that with loid

I really hope DE doesn't do the MCU/DCU, everything CU apparently thing where they just reset the universe at some point because ig all of their time travel shenanigans catch up to them and it becomes too convoluted to continue

same with the aforementioned time travel shenanigans, hope they remain within reasonable boundaries in terms of that, they should know how easy that can become way too complex though, I'm sure they're wary

[strange turtle]

No way that DE resets the universe

It’d take too much time and resources to do something like that, just not feasible at all

[burnt light]

I mean didn’t the Orokin erased everything before a certain points history?

Who knows what happened before

[graceful swan]

They erased the stuff before them

[burnt light]

Just thinking the Orokin maybe taken ideas from the past and claimed it as their own

[woven coyote]

Well komi somehow survived the info purge so yeah

[tall echo]

Waht?

[woven coyote]

One of the chats reveals komi also existed in 1999 and had some meanings about the sol and lua gods

Cant remember who it was
Maybe aoi or eleanor

[graceful swan]

Komi or Koumei?

[woven coyote]

Whoever it was that asked what drifter does for fun

Komi the game

[graceful swan]

Isn’t the game just a game though nothing to do with gods

[stiff fable]

The Orokin erased that Sol and Lua were part of a major established religion

Erasing context from Warframe go is minor, if true

[graceful swan]

Didn’t it still exist in their tower designs?

[stiff fable]

not especially

[graceful swan]

Like you still got Sun Moon Neutral

And the towers still show Yin Yang

[stiff fable]

That's wholly divorced from worshipping Sol and Lua as deities

In fact, this is a great example of what I mean

Until 1999 we had no idea that the Warframe universe had a major, Christian-themed religion that worshipped the Sun and Moon as gods

We are supposed to infer that the Orokin erased all presence of this religion and coopted its symbolism

Which has happened many times historically, eg "Jesus wasn't born on Christmas"

[chilly iron]

Twin deities isn't really Christian coded
I want more details on this religion though, Eleanor mentions priestesses and rituals and I want to see them

[stiff fable]

....everything around it is, like Lettie talks about them in explicitly Christian terms

[chilly iron]

Christianity is very anti-multiple gods though?

[stiff fable]

My sibling in Warframe have you ever asked a pastor to explain the Trinity

[burnt light]

Sounds like Christianity either changed or was gone

[stiff fable]

Or, ask a Catholic to explain the saints

And why Buddha is a Christian saint

[chilly iron]

O.o he's not?
Catholic is not Christian

[stiff fable]

...........

What in the name of god

[chilly iron]

Protestants don't have saints

[graceful swan]

the three persons of the Christian Godhead; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[stiff fable]

Catholocism is Christian

It's not Protestant but it's sure as hell Christian

Hell the original Protestants defined themselves through the rejection of Catholocism

[graceful swan]

Roman Catholicism is the largest of the three major branches of Christianity

[chilly iron]

Ok in broad terms ok, but most protestants just default to "Christians" to separate themselves from catholics

[burnt light]

Feeling this is going no where

[chilly iron]

But the trinity is one god in three aspects and still doesn't have sun and moon worship

[burnt light]

Wasn’t in 1999 the one guy ended up being worshipped?

[stiff fable]

that's absolutely incorrect

And honestly so flavorless I'm disappointed, the correct way to distinguish themselves is to call Catholics "Papists"

Anyway Christianity in Warframe was replaced outright by Sol/Luna worship

And has all the trappings that we would associate with Christianity

[graceful swan]

Three are the principles,

three the weaving ways.

Cool water flows, the moon behind a cloud; To the receptive mind All things come in time.

Sun at mid-heaven, Sovereign above all; Mind in firm action Commits without reflecting.

Between sun and moon Unfolds a winding path; Not by one Way alone Is Mastery achieved.

Holy Trinity

[stiff fable]

(Also last bit of off-topic, Josaphat is a Western corruption of the word "bohdisattva", and Saint Josaphat is Gautama Buddha through centuries of mistranslation and corrupting the story)

[burnt light]

Didn’t they also believed in something forgot what it was called, eternalism? Where every choice kinds of creates another world?

[stiff fable]

That's a scientific principle, not religion or philosophy

[burnt light]

Oh yea

[graceful swan]

Eternalism and Presentism are theories of Time

[burnt light]

Orokin just confuses me unsure what they were sometimes

[stiff fable]

They were rich billionaires and scientists who seized power, erased the history books, and spent a few thousand years partying and ruining lives

[burnt light]

Until they ruined themselves with the sentinels

[stiff fable]

*sentients

And, indirectly, yes? Something they created was going to kill them, given the opportunity. The Tenno ended up being the ones in position to do it.

[burnt light]

Feeling for now my headcanon the Orokin saw the pro to frames and decided to copy that but with few adjustments

[stiff fable]

Nope

As far as we know, Ballas created the Warframes, then Albrecht time traveled to 1999 and created the protoframes

[burnt light]

Ballas seems like the type to take others ideas and make them his own

[stiff fable]

And originally the city was destroyed by the reactor going nuclear

So none of the protoframes survived to leave the city

[burnt light]

Okay

[stiff fable]

And now they're caught in the timeloop, so they also don't leave the city

Ballas IS stealing ideas, but he's stealing general ideas and the Warframes are actually his

[burnt light]

Only the Drifter can come and go still?

[stiff fable]

Yep. Lettie and I think Eleanor mention it.

[burnt light]

Okay

[restive river]

Drifter can temporarily bring the protos to the future too ig through transference, if I had to guess its similar to the swap for Operator and Drifter?

[burnt light]

There Ordis reaction? Or just the usual?

[graceful swan]

Ordis won’t even question it there’s no secret interaction

[restive river]

No new ordis voicelines in the update

We mention Ordis to the Hex but that’s about it for new Ordis content

[burnt light]

Some reason I feel like going back to the Orbiter just to see Ordis

[restive river]

You can do that

I have the plush in my backroom so he’s always there to a degree :)

[burnt light]

Sadly no plush of him

[graceful swan]

I brought him x2

[restive river]

Nice :D
whenever Baro brings the statue back I’m buying another so I can display him in the backroom too

[wintry siren]

Hey so I got a tricky question,is the player character in warframe a human or an orokin?

[silk atlas]

Human. Every Orokin, Tenno, Ostron, Solaris, Grineer and Corpus is "human."

[wintry siren]

Oh…are the titles just the societal standings set by the orokin?

[silk atlas]

If you're "Orokin", you're like the rich bastards

[wintry siren]

Oh ok that makes more sense now

Thanks

[raw sigil]

ok now what the heck is this

dominus thrax is captain vor?

[graceful swan]

Nope

[raw sigil]

i dont believe it

[silk atlas]

They're legs look nothing alike

[graceful swan]

Ones a book character the other isn’t

Thrax isn’t even a clone

[limber pulsar]

all thats pointing at is that they both have a head, arms, and legs. which they sure do i giess

[silk atlas]

And we know that Thrax is from a book, and if they were the same person then Vor wouldn't be in the Undercroft

[wintry siren]

Like they have thin arms and legs and a funny headdress but I guess that’s it?

[graceful swan]

Thrax casually commanding Vor to get murdered in the Undercroft

[faint turret]

your cooking...

[raw sigil]

im not, i found this online

i forgot the name of who posted it

[north ferry]

Vor just eternally cropping up in the void is so funny. Eternally reappearing just to die, again.

[feral cape]

Think of it how someone would call themselves an American

We're all human but then people differentiate themselves either through simply calling themselves a nationality or being blue and tall and having one long arm

[sly pagoda]

Now is Orokin strictly those with blue and long arms. That is the ruling caste(s) like the executors.

[hushed warren]

Question, if Umbra has a tenno controlling him and the tenno is in a glass case somewhere, who is controlling Excalibur

[graceful swan]

Which Excal Protoframe or regular Excal?

[hushed warren]

Regular

[graceful swan]

A Tenno

[feral cape]

Uhhh probably?

All the orokin we meet are blue

Albrecht is no longer blue because his skin got torn off by seriglass

[restive river]

Umbra's tenno was us once we rebuild him during the sacrifice
he didnt have a tenno prior

we don't really get info on the individual tenno who control other frames, some frames were gen 1, some frames were akin to Umbra and staved off the infestation via high emotions (Jade, Stalker, Kullervo (though they may have all been gen 1 too)

Harrow had Rell

we know Voruna had a tenno

[quartz sky]

Loid?

[feral cape]

He's an Archimedean or Archimedean adjacent

I think

And malewife

[normal mountain]

Albrecht isn't blue

[restive river]

Butler

[restive river]

Not after he had to get new skin

[feral cape]

Because he got his skin ripped off by seriglass

[restive river]

Probably looked less conspicuous in 1999 too lol

[humble sierra]

Yeah the Blue skin was also just a choice

It was fashionable for them

[restive river]

Same with the long arm

[quartz sky]

He also stopped taking kuva

[humble sierra]

Yep, though I don't think that would have any effect on his appearance

[restive river]

It would not

The blue skin, long arm and all that is a product of genetic manipulation, something the Orokin do to be fashionable
I don’t think we ever have seen any visual side effects from using Kuva aside from that one time when we drank it
But
That happens if we dont too so prob not

[quartz sky]

But he still made the choice not to get the blue back. I think he's kinda changing philosophy

Class awareness lol

[graceful swan]

Trained to assist Archimedeans

[restive river]

Eh, maybe to a degree
He’s still an orokin and def views himself as a god and absolutely does not care if others get hurt
The Hex make that very apparent

Like even the rest of the Entrati suck to varying degrees
Daughter is probably the best of them and the worst she does is view Kahl as lesser (though she changes) and gets a little too excited about cutting things open, though that last one is def scientific curiosity

[frosty sluice]

Anyone know any source where I can read/watch a good dive into Warframes Lore, explaining a large majority of it?

[silk atlas]

Orokin Archives

[frosty sluice]

I did see them, yea.
They explain the old war and anything past that, right?

[silk atlas]

Old War in particular doesn't have anything important besides the big vague stuff, but yeah

[humble sierra]

Fastest thing in Warframe?
Not Gauss.
Not Titania.
Not Volt.
Not even a Gauss with every speed mod, a Wisp Mote, and a buff from Volt.

It's Saya. She's standing next to Konzu and will be there next to Koumei shrine before you reach there.

[stiff fable]

Oh I was going to say Operator mode

Press a button and the Operator moves from the ship to the Warframe

[wintry siren]

Ok that makes a lot more sense. But where did the long arm, blue skin come from, kuva?

[feral cape]

Plain ol physical augmentation

[wintry siren]

Ok fair

Thanks

[feral cape]

Im solely of the opinion albretchs indifference to lives isn't actually a result of a god complex and more just a onset by the situation he's in

He will sacrifice anything to kill the great indifference because odds are it wants to kill everything

[humble sierra]

Saya outruns those 0.002 seconds of teleportation lag

She needs a nerf

[restive river]

Counterpoint: Necraloid

[restive river]

I mean yes its also the situation, the belief that killing the few will outweigh the deaths caused by the indifference
He’s still going about it horribly ngl

Though it does seem like his plan was for us to get close to them anyway so 🤷‍♀️

[feral cape]

Has he actually killed anyone?

[restive river]

He shot us
He shot Amir
He killed many many animals
He purposefully infected citizens which sped up the techrot which did result in more deaths

Granted we didnt die
And we saved Amir

[feral cape]

He did kill animals yes

Which is bad

However for people deaths he's looping 1999 so nobody is actually dying yet

[restive river]

He infected people in 1998, prior to the loop

And from my understanding he was only looping new years, we extended the loop.

[feral cape]

True

Which was his intention

Also yea he is going about this in a way that sucks probably but we don't actually have any plan other than do what albretch is trying to do

[restive river]

He’s still responsible for untold deaths, yes he’s trying to stop an eldritch being and that’s understandable to a point
But you can have good intentions and still do a horrible thing.

[feral cape]

Because we don't have any idea what we're dealing with and he presumably does

[restive river]

It’s not like he gave us a choice

[feral cape]

Correct

[restive river]

Like
We even go out of our way to disobey him multiple times :p

[feral cape]

He has good intentions and a good endgame just not the best methods to get there

And who knows if a good method to get there exists

[restive river]

Which does seem to be part of his plan, play the other villain to guide us in the right path

[feral cape]

Something Something eggs and omelet

[restive river]

Sometimes good intentions aren’t enough

[feral cape]

Throw in a little cheese and some bacon boom breakfast

[restive river]

[feral cape]

You're right I'm no stranger to good intentions very very evil guy those are like my favorite villains

I wish to end all suffering thus I will kill all that could suffer

And what can suffer is anything i can kill

[restive river]

Yeah

Like I like Albrecht the character
But in-universe he sucks

Bad dad
Bad boyfriend
Infected a whole state cause ???
Transformed people into monsters cause. We needed friends??? And ig he needed soldiers, someone to stand against Scaldra? Maybe???

Even though Scaldra also had a hand in things… I’m kinda surprised he didnt try to get in good with them ngl

[feral cape]

He needed to drive us

To amp up tension

[humble sierra]

I don't think he caused the infested outbreak in Hollvania, if that's what you're referring to by "infected a whole state"

[restive river]

Yes, he did

[feral cape]

Put us in extreme situations to awaken latent power

[restive river]

No, he didn’t
He sped up the process though.

The infestation was already there but he made it worse on purpose

[restive river]

Which may also be how he “escaped” to wherever he bailed to??

I’m not really sure where he is now ngl, just that he wants to go to Tau
For
Some reason

Can’t wait for the sentients to totally be worshipping Wally :p

[feral cape]

Well maybe it cause tau has no void influence

It was hardly exposed to the void meanwhile sol is constantly bathed in it

I also like how albretch will not deny he is terrible and openly admits it

[restive river]

Aside from the solar rails ig

[restive river]

Oh yeah same, he’s an honest demon if nothing else

[feral cape]

If I am to be a demon then I shall be an honest one

[restive river]

Like its def a love hate thing with him
As a player I love the guy
But my tenno hates him

[feral cape]

To leave such blazing footprints as no unclean thing would dare follow

[restive river]

Goes hard

[sly pagoda]

hes an ends justify the means type

[hushed warren]

Thx dude I appreciate your answer

[north jolt]

Wasn't Albrecht and the Scaldra lady working together for some time before the in-game events of 1999? I thought in the comic they had some kind of connection

[restive river]

Maybe? I’m not really sure
We know Russalka was eventually under the control of Wally but I’m not sure when or if Russalka worked with Albrecht before then

[north jolt]

So re-read the comic and if I'm understanding it right, I think Albrecht had connections with the Hollvanian government/authorities themselves, but I don't think that includes the Scaldra faction specifically

[restive river]

I’m still not sure if Scaldra is even from Hollvania or not

Like it sounds like Viktor maybe is and many of their soldiers but Scaldra as a concept? Idk

They def want to take Hollvania, def got the vibe they want to control it and its people

At first with media
Now with force

[slim osprey]

Ok so I just played through Jade Shadows and I’m confused about a lot but what confuses me most is at the end- are we kinda chill with Hunhow now..? He helped with the new war and now he gave us the blueprint to Jade casually in our messages… I’m coming off a break rn so my lore is rusty and there’s so much I’m confused by with Jade shadows, that just jumped out to me first since it was at the very end

[stiff fable]

It's mentioned that Scaldra is some kind of Hollvanian state security force

[mortal merlin]

their story is quite sad isn't it?

[restive river]

oh fr?
ok so the government was mucking with the techrot

classic orokin move ngl

[stiff fable]

He'd murder us and kill every human in the Origin System if he could get away with it

....but he can't so he's refocusing on what he CAN do.

Weirdly healthy ngl

[stiff fable]

AIN'T IT JUST

[restive river]

I'm holding out hope we'll get more on the hollvanian government ngl