lore-discussion

[sly ibex]

He probably only did that because Loid would have been a liability, or something.

[lament stirrup]

I mean, fiven that Albrecht is using love as a tool, Loid would've been a plausible shield against the Man In The Wall

Which. Might be why he brought Kalymnos.

She has a mind complex enough to love but simple enough that the Man In The Wall can't manipulate it.

[sly ibex]

I don't know about that. Given that she is some form of a Cavia herself, I think she has plenty of intelligence.

[lament stirrup]

I wouldn't put it past Albrecht to perfect the Cavia process to produce a void attuned specimen without human-level intelligence, but thats idle speculation without the next update.

[silk atlas]

Nah I think he clearly understands its importance, just that he never does it himself because reasons.
So, to quote Megatron: "Duly noted... AND IGNORED!"

[sly ibex]

He had no part in that. The Man in the Wall made the Cavia intelligent.

[lament stirrup]

Also true.

[sly ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/dooly-gif-19284362

[silk atlas]

Yeah exactly.

He knows that Drifter is gonna put in the work to understand the Hex so he just doesn't bother.

[sly ibex]

He just keeps manipulating, using, abusing, and abandoning people.

[proper barn]

I think if fib didn't do what he did they all would have died.

[proper barn]

I mean Albretch sent animals after animals into the void after doing drugs.

Lmao.

[brittle siren]

Is it piece of Wally though?

[restive river]

Agreed

[restive river]

Yes.

[steady edge]

I headcannon Arthur got the square spaghetti idea because drifter tried to eat raw noodles thinking that was the most normal food to eat in 1999

[restive river]

@brittle siren this literally happens during the quest

[north ferry]

Well I missed all that conversation.

[glacial bough]

Except Albrecht absolutely understands it. He mostly is just refusing himself it out of a mixture of guilt, penance, and purpose.

[north ferry]

I mean he understands it and feels as far as I can tell it, but he is an Orokin and they're messed up as a rule.

[glacial bough]

That's part of his point though. As he said, he will have to be an honest devil.

He understands the horrors he's done, intentional or not, and that he'll pay for them when all this is over

[north ferry]

Suuuuuure

[restive river]

Tagfer
Head butt
Albrecht crotch
Make it happen DE

Right after the old men kiss ofc

[north ferry]

Considering they've made him the bloody plot at this point I'm not betting on any satisfaction there.

[restive river]

I am, it’ll just be towards the end

Also we know Rebb wants the old men to kiss

[brittle siren]

Imagine he make an armor down there to prevent someone play dirty on him

[restive river]

I’ll conceptually embody it away

Tagfer deserves recompense

[feral cape]

Despite the fact that he sucks i do hope he lives he's a fountain of knowledge

[north ferry]

Honestly, Ballas that man.

[glacial bough]

I'm absolutely betting Albrecht will die at the end of this. He absolutely has some step in the plan that requires his death to finish everything

He knows he has it coming

[brittle siren]

Also idk if he mean he literally the embodiment of the void or liek you said, we borrow from OP, and OP borrow from Wally

[restive river]

Counterpoint: glass him.

[brittle siren]

*like

[restive river]

We don’t know what Wally is so no, he is not an embodiment of the void. Where is that ever implied or stated?

[feral cape]

We dont have the tech

[restive river]

Vitrica?

What did we do to Nihil????

[feral cape]

He was already a Cephalon when we fought him

[brittle siren]

Counterpoint: Craft Gara

[restive river]

Oh
Right

[feral cape]

Gara isn't glassing people in the cephalon sense

[restive river]

Let’s torture Nihil to get the info outta him >:)

[brittle siren]

We glassed him into Cephalon

[restive river]

I’m aware.

[feral cape]

She's like actually literally turning them into glass

The other guy suggested gara

[brittle siren]

Well technically he half cephalon

[restive river]

No he was already one, I forgot we literally fight him in the weave lmao

[brittle siren]

Since Cephalon usually those that no longer themselves

[feral cape]

That's not true

Suda and simaris are just fine

[brittle siren]

They still work by their code

[feral cape]

They arnt code

[restive river]

You’re confusing precepts applied to cephalons and just cephalons in general.

[brittle siren]

They do have some morality but in the end they have to follow the "code"

[feral cape]

What are you talking about

[brittle siren]

It more like morality code, in this case "cephalon" code

[feral cape]

Suda and simaris are beheld to Noone they do as they please

[restive river]

^^^

[feral cape]

Some cephalons do have precepts which force them to act in certain ways

Like our man orids and cy

But that's not needed

[brittle siren]

Yeah Nihil is in Cephalon form, but he is not been re-programmed to be fully 1, his mind just living rent free inside a bottle and keep yapping

[feral cape]

Yes he's a Cephalon

[restive river]

He. He is still a cephalon.

[feral cape]

Being a Cephalon means he was glassed and his consciousness is now in the weave

[brittle siren]

Is Simaris volunteered?

[feral cape]

Most likely

[restive river]

Being a cephalon does not mean you were glassed AND THEN had precepts installed
You just
Were glassed

[brittle siren]

Yes, but not in traditional way like we saw any other Cephalon we met

[feral cape]

Suda and simaris are literally just themselves in the weave

[restive river]

Suda and Simaris.
He is literally just a cephalon like the others.

[north ferry]

That reminds me of Yonta talking about how she was glassing people at some point. I can remember the exact context. But does that mean there are full on void madness cephalon hanging around of the Zariman?

[brittle siren]

Arent Suda whole quest literally Simaris warn her not to dig her old memories?

[feral cape]

Yea because it has music and simaris hates music

[brittle siren]

But Suda when try to remember she kinda broken and then being hacked by Hunhow

[feral cape]

Because of hunhow

[brittle siren]

So they still follow some sort of the programs that they agreed too, not as strict as Ordis or Cy

Meanwhile Nihil can literally do whatever he want with no real consequences

[brittle siren]

Isn't the black captain is the one doing that though?

[north ferry]

Can't recall, thus the question marks.

[proper barn]

Not a captain

Also he has a Name.

Quinn.

[brittle siren]

my brain is a goldfish

I'm not good at name unless they give me a good impression

or they have simple name

[north ferry]

Quinn is a simple name but anyway.

[brittle siren]

yes Quinn is simple name but it not common "sound" in my mind

[proper barn]

No void madness cephalons. Quinn would glass certain rebels and dissenters. Yonta's "mistake" was she wanted to do the jump to tau in 1 big jump.

Instead of many small ones.

[north ferry]

I do remember it has him he was talking about giving the orders

Ah okay. I can't remember much about the rank up storyline... or any of them really.

[restive river]

That was Quinn

[proper barn]

Booo

I love the holdfasts.

[north ferry]

Because she is in charge of that... because

[proper barn]

Also Quinn wasn't a captain just the seemingly leader of the people.

[brittle siren]

they all jerk, beside Yonta

[restive river]

Hombask?

[north ferry]

Not my fault that there are long periods of time between a handful of sentences, not exactly a solid narrative.

[restive river]

Quinn was swiping people on his tablet, consigning them to being glassed

[proper barn]

Not true.

Also I love Calvero.

[restive river]

Also Quinn is fine lol

Cav’s heavy handed but that’s it

[north ferry]

They.. did the best they could and feel bad about it, isn't that the whole point of the rank ups.

[restive river]

Like when you get there they’re depressed yeah but that’s with reason.

[proper barn]

He is like a "jerk" but he did what he did cuz he thought it was best and he thinks it was worth it cuz some kids lived.

[proper barn]

Yeah. But that doesn't mean jerks lmao.

[brittle siren]

at least they tried to protect the kid, I have to admit

[proper barn]

Also the rank ups are about each of them died.

[brittle siren]

tbh blame the Orokin

[proper barn]

Hombask torn apart by the mad. Calvero blew up himself and some mad adults. Yonta killed herself with a jade light cuz she felt she messed up. Quinn was killed by the tenno cuz they thought he was one of the adults that went crazy.

That's 4? I think that's all of them.

[north ferry]

Yeh

[brittle siren]

there is 1 more but she turn into Void Angel already

[proper barn]

Oh also the duviri arcanes of random weapons come from Calveros gun autism. @brittle siren @north ferry

[glacial bough]

Well, not quite Simaris. He living name was apparently Irmis going by Suda

[feral cape]

Where does she say this?

[proper barn]

They apparented in the Void cuz they are "the improvements Calvero thought would make the weapons he sees us use work better".

Very funny to imagine Calvero seeing a lato and going "this is terrible absolutely terrible. It needs more crit"

[brittle siren]

Let give him the Stug

[upbeat glacier]

Who's higher in rank

Kela de thaym

Or

Vay hek

[normal mountain]

Kela de Thaym strikes me as that crazy officer whose rank doesn't really matter because she does what she wants and nobody bothers to stand in her way

[upbeat glacier]

I just saw a post

Warframe vs Warhammer 40k

[stiff fable]

I mean, Warframe materials science is way beyond 40K

[glacial bough]

In her quest. She calls him Irmis first thing in the quest

[feral cape]

Depends on what we consider material science ig

I know one faction has a map that can kinda just blow up stars idk if that's magic or not

It might be magic

[brittle siren]

A... map...?

[feral cape]

Yea

Alterations on the map will alter the region of space

For example blowing up a star

Celestial Orrery is the thing

[feral cape]

Was it on tik tok and was it about cyte 09

[upbeat glacier]

Reddit

Rhino vs a space marine

[feral cape]

Which chapter of marine

[upbeat glacier]

Blueberry

[feral cape]

That's uhhh

Custodes? I think

[proper barn]

No

Ultra marines

[feral cape]

Ah

I know one character from 40k and its the like head of the gray knights or whatever

[proper barn]

Power scaling between universes us always werid.

I'll say rhino against a jobber Ultra marine rhino would win I guess.

[brittle siren]

Sound like nice idea for SCP

[feral cape]

I hate murder bucket scps

[proper barn]

My Favorite SCP was like the human chicken one.

[stiff fable]

Warframes are comparable to primarchs

A Tenno would cut through a squad of space marines like a squad of Grineer

[proper barn]

Ohhh

Idk about exactly that but a normal squad sure.

We can't get into like "what if We fight Borlbo the space marine that can't be beat".

[brittle siren]

Scp-500 will cure cancer but it only have 40 pills

[feral cape]

It definitely depends on the chapter

[proper barn]

Sure.

[feral cape]

Some of them have weird space magic and oooOoOOOoo

[proper barn]

I think the more interesting fights would be like necrons or like The nids.

[feral cape]

I know one chapter is incredibly powerful pyskers

And tenno don't fair well against mind magic

[proper barn]

Not true.

We literally beat the person that used mind magic against us.

[feral cape]

By punching them to death not a psychic battle

[proper barn]

Hey we beat them psychically too.

[feral cape]

Whom

[proper barn]

Otherwise we would be mush.

Oh I am saying elder queen.

Who do you mean?

[feral cape]

Yea we punched them to death

Well that's a simplification but you get the jist

Also teshin had to be there for us to not be mind controlled

[proper barn]

Teshin's mind kung-fu is very funny to me

Never explained.

[proper barn]

Well all chapters (well not all chapters) most chapters have librarians. Some just more than others.

[feral cape]

So unless we wanna make the very weird assumption I see in alot of warframe battle boarding that tmitw would for some reason interfere i don't think the tenno would fair well

Thats a really weird thing I see in alot of warframe battle boarding where people just assume wally would interfere or help us in any way

Like he's some kind of stand

[proper barn]

Lmao

I think the tenno would do pretty okay in the fight but I hate this clear winner stuff. Like it would depend on the writer and everything.

Also what scale are we building out to?

[feral cape]

I think the cop out of it depends on the writer takes away the core of battle boarding

Like sure if this were to actually happen the writer gets to pick who wins but this is made up battle boarding

Compare feats abilities so on and figure out who would probably win

[feral cape]

?

[proper barn]

Like are going like

Squad of space marines

Vs squad/singular warframe

[feral cape]

Oh

Idk

I know about 4 thing about 40k

[proper barn]

Or we doing like "oh this like the elite guard of the chapter vs a warframe squad" cuz librarians don't really go out at all. Also they are all on the verge of like immediately exploding from their mind powers. (Psykers are).

Sure.

[feral cape]

Kaldor Draigo Celestial Orrery the nids are super cool and primarchs

[proper barn]

I agree.

I love 40k.

My Favorite faction is like genestealer cults.

I also like fanasty warhammer.

I even like age of sigmar.

I even branch out into warhammer likes i.e. trench crusade.

[feral cape]

I totally know all of those things

[proper barn]

Okay I'll just answer one of those. Genestealer cults are groups of humans infected by a Genestealer that rise up against the planets their on when the nids are near and then get eaten by the nids.

[feral cape]

Neat

[proper barn]

I like them cus their atheistic is very like "worker turns his drill into a weapon" core.

[feral cape]

I do destiny

[frigid path]

When are we gonna get to use the vessels to fight Wally

[proper barn]

some point . maybe. have you played the 1999 Finale?

[uneven solar]

Hi guys who was the man in the wall in the end of new war quest

[frigid path]

Yeah

[proper barn]

that's him.

[uneven solar]

Huh

[proper barn]

that's who it is.

[uneven solar]

What role is he playing in the story

[proper barn]

it's the man in the wall.

he was held down by Rell and he was the thing Albertch saw when he first entered the void and it almost killed him.

we use his finger to warp jump. he is the unknowable evil we fight currrently.

[uneven solar]

Oh Okk

Thanks

[proper barn]

he is the like "hi kiddo" guy. also his part of the void is what is attacking the labs @uneven solar

in whispers.

[lean garden]

just selecting this message because its in the middle of all this battleboarding/powerscaling talk:

Why do people wanna pit warframes and space marines against each other when they can just watch the marvelous adventures of John Prodman and Caiphus Caine

[feral cape]

Who is that second guy

Is he the John prodman of 40k?

[glacial bough]

He's basically King from OPM

[feral cape]

Lol

[glacial bough]

Now, unlike King, Caine is actually capable in some regard.

[feral cape]

Wdym king is clearly the most powerful hero

[old dome]

...what did kaelli mean when she said "those stupid insane rituals... why?!" to her dad???

is it the continuity stuff??

[visual ermine]

The conversations suggest Vilcor had her undergo some kind of extremely strict combat/military disciplining, which ultimately leads to the incident where she claws off his arm.

[tired shale]

Wasn't it Mother that did that though?

[visual ermine]

Vilcor had a pretty full schedule in getting stabbed appointments

[tame radish]

My girlfriend didn't got the cutscene when Ballas cut lotus hand in the new war, what happened there? She did duviri Paradox first.

[old dome]

it was in the same cutscene where you see lotus get sucked into the void...

[tame radish]

I didn't see that scene either

[graceful swan]

Were you skipping cutscenes?

[old dome]

did yall accidentally skip it??

[tame radish]

No, we never skipped anything.

[old dome]

its the same scene where the operator gets stabbed by ballas in the chest

...did you. finish tnw??

[tame radish]

Yeah, we finished the quest completely until we got lotus inbox with the paracesis and such

I'm 1000% we didn't got the severed hand scene

[old dome]

well... good thing youtube exists

[lean garden]

did you get the cutscene where the operator slipped into the portal?

[tame radish]

No, I guess game got literally bugged

Well...

Fk

[graceful swan]

Guess it’s time for you to replay or watch a playthrough

[tame radish]

She spent 5 hours doing that quest since it's her first videogame lol.

I'll have to replay it myself

[graceful swan]

Could watch a playthrough

[stiff fable]

The Orokin had a very ritualized society. Think royal court manners mixed with pre-historic religious observations

[foggy yew]

Is there information somewhere about why proto-frames can't sleep? Or can it be put down to a mutation in the strain?

[graceful swan]

I’d say it’s something to do with this

(Who nurtures you in your times of rest? Who restores your battle-torn frame, day after day after day? Whose milk enriches your kindred flesh with endless strength and vigor? It can only be me.)

HELMINTH

[foggy yew]

Eh? What does a helminth have to do with proto-frames?

[lean garden]

protoframes cant sleep? then how does eleanor get arthur nightmares?

[graceful swan]

They are made with Helminth like literally every Warframe

[scenic fossil]

Helminth touches you

[tall echo]

Is there any information about why you think they can't sleep?

[foggy yew]

Arthur has a phrase: ‘I wish I was awake, it would be great to wake up and see your face.’

[tall echo]

...what

[lean garden]

is this paraphrased? Because sentence wise this does not make sense

[foggy yew]

If you have an affair with Arthur, new phrases open up, just like with any of the 6 npcs.

[woven coyote]

You missed the point that sentence doesnt have gramatical sense

[lean garden]

I think I know whats happening lmao

[stiff fable]

Ah, you've misunderstood

He's being flirty and saying he wishes he was sleeping

[tall echo]

Affair?

[lean garden]

Arthur is saying that he wishes he was asleep so he can wake up and see your face, since you just walked up to him

[foggy yew]

How could they be made helminthic if they got their mutations after being infected with the virus strain?

[stiff fable]

UNLESS you typo'd and he actually says "I wish I COULD sleep" which has a different meaning entirely

[stiff fable]

Like treating smallpox with cowpox

[graceful swan]

I went among the denizens of the plague year like a saviour, my hands filled with healing. To those who volunteered, I brought more than mere health. Their bodies were primed; it needed only the Helminth infusions, brought from my own time, to work the alchemy of transformation. They have become partial warframes, still in possession of their free will, yet enhanced, Void-attuned, capable.

[tall echo]

Techrot and helminth are strains of the same base thing

[stiff fable]

Though in this case the Hex actually did get infested and Albrecht giving them the Helminth strain is the reason they didn't turn into generic enemies

[foggy yew]

Ahhh, now I get it, thanks.

[stiff fable]

Before Albrecht time traveled they probably did get turned into generic infested lol

[tall echo]

Eh, techrot doesn't seem to change people

[graceful swan]

DE shouldn’t have put it in notes as not everyone knows to look for it which confuses many people

[stiff fable]

?? Of course it does, it's made of infested biomass

[tall echo]

It's a lot more primitive in ability and behavior

[stiff fable]

It just doesn't reconstitute it as humaniform

Probably because it's eating more civilians than anything, easier to digest

[foggy yew]

maybe I misunderstood the phrase, my localisation says he's awake.

but thnx

[stiff fable]

Yeah he's being flirty

[tall echo]

Another point for translation>localization

[stiff fable]

I mean it would seem the problem is that it wasn't localized properly so...

[tall echo]

Yes

[foggy yew]

I hate it when they translate rubbish..... then I have to pull people over to find explanations.....

[tall echo]

Those issues are more common in localization for some reason

[woven coyote]

As a translation student some translations i have come across in recent years are.... disturbing

[smoky solstice]

hello everyone, so here's a thought that came to my head regarding wally right (still on that stuff)
ok so in the hex quest of course entrati wants the reactor to blow up. But one detail that for some reason didn't hit until now - why does the indifference interfere with the hex's attempts

specifically referring to the arthur portion where murmur are coming out of the ground in the baubau fight

like wouldn't he want to lay off and let them work if exploding the reactor is a big no no

[stiff fable]

Because it wants to join the party

[smoky solstice]

it* I mean

[stiff fable]

Albrecht is right there

[smoky solstice]

the indifference thirsting

[stiff fable]

And Arthur blowing the reactor means another loop where Wally has even more control and access

[smoky solstice]

well yeah that's what I was saying, Wally wants the reactor to explode

...so why does Entrati

[stiff fable]

Eventually if that keeps up Wally would be able to send the Murmur through before December 31

[smoky solstice]

before you know, the last second switch up

[stiff fable]

That's Wally's actual win condition in the quest, keep the loop going long enough that his influence spreads to before the reactor explosion can stop him

Oh but your question was why does Entrati want the reactor to explode mb

Murmur is weak to radiation

The reactor blowing kicks Wally back out of reality

[graceful swan]

Does that mean Wally is weak to radiation

[stiff fable]

"Yes up to a point"

[smoky solstice]

doesn't seem to be doing much

I mean as far as just delaying it, sure, fine, keep exploding it, but what is this then about "Tau is in sight", this isn't some grand solution you tell the drifter to do, this is something you ask for their help to stop

[stiff fable]

The Murmur is Wally

[scenic fossil]

Well, Part of

[stiff fable]

I mean Albrecht doesn't care about 1999 hugely

[scenic fossil]

Someone also was blasting me for 20 mins that its his servant there....

[stiff fable]

Like he went there because he thought Wally couldn't reach it, when Wally reached it he had to run again

[smoky solstice]

well if you subscribe to the theory that it's all just Albrecht bamboozling us to manipulate us to then have the motivation to loop and get the Hex Finale thing going

perhaps

[scenic fossil]

Well,.the whole loop was a double bait

[smoky solstice]

look all I'm saying is that Albrecht's motivations are suspect for these supposed wishes and THE EYE IS STILL THERE

[scenic fossil]

For Wally and MurMur to go f themselves, and for Drifter to acquire the upgrade of power of love

[smoky solstice]

still not over that btw

[scenic fossil]

AND NOW HES AT TAU

i wanna see Albrecht fight Pazuul with Void Powers

[smoky solstice]

oh I guess if you mean that the reactor had to explode one more time so we rewind and get it done

[stiff fable]

Albrecht's motives aren't suspect, he's trying to kill Wally. What's suspect is what he's willing to do to see it through.

[smoky solstice]

or is he?????

[scenic fossil]

Hes chaotic good, which makes things crazy all around him

[stiff fable]

He is

[smoky solstice]

hey he's the one who led us to letting wally into 1999, although i guess that albrecht phone call in the arg could've been wally

[stiff fable]

I'd really hesitate to call ANY Orokin good

Wally was in 1999 before the ARG

[smoky solstice]

then what was the arg ending about

[scenic fossil]

Hey, the good orokin is a dead orokin

[smoky solstice]

what did we help wally do

[stiff fable]

Wally getting more into 1999

[smoky solstice]

oh

that's significantly more lame

[scenic fossil]

And then we kicked him

[smoky solstice]

but I guess it also makes more sense I think

[stiff fable]

The entire point of Lotus Eaters was that Wally was about to break into 1999

[smoky solstice]

at least that's what we think

[stiff fable]

We took Arthur's pager to stop him

[scenic fossil]

And we never get a dialogue about it 😭

Nor return it to Arthur

DE and minor details

[smoky solstice]

what's your point here

[stiff fable]

But in Whispers in the Wall we see Wally reach 1999 and touch Albrecht before the reactor blows/loop starts

[smoky solstice]

oh you mean that

[stiff fable]

My point is that Wally was already reaching 1999

[smoky solstice]

it still doesn't disprove the theory that we let wally in, time doesn't have to be linear that way

[scenic fossil]

"Touch", he was litteraly beating the crap out of him

[smoky solstice]

especially for out of game events

[stiff fable]

That was a later loop

In Whispers Arthur never goes to the reactor

[smoky solstice]

I was thinking more about how 1999 is described in the arg. like as it is, sounded like maybe wally influenced already

but it's still totally feasible we let wally in

[stiff fable]

The "Albrecht rescue mission" happens because Wally got into Rusalka's body

[smoky solstice]

oh also, what's that whole thing about atomicycles, am I misremembering or is there an insiuation that void tech was used to make them?

[stiff fable]

Once the Drifter enters the loop the pattern is that Scaldra captures Albrecht and then the Drifter saves him with the Hex's help

Then they stop the reactor boom

[scenic fossil]

I wonder if it will ever be unlooped

[stiff fable]

Once Wally bodyjacks Rusalka the loop changes

[stiff fable]

Honestly I guess "no". Kinda think that Drifter will permanently pull the Hex to the Origin System instead at the end of the game

[smoky solstice]

oh that's why the drifter was so aware of everything, why the hex were so surprised, and why arthur confronted us by saying "you said this was a loop", the drifter came in basically saying "hey, this is what's up, this is what we have to do"

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[smoky solstice]

I just thought we had a vague plan in mind

[scenic fossil]

That was his goal anyways

[smoky solstice]

anyway, the atomicycles thing, what's that about

[stiff fable]

I really don't like that they did that, but they obviously didn't want the game to go full endless eight

[smoky solstice]

there's no way void tech exists in 1999... right?

[stiff fable]

Albrecht modded them with future knowledge

[scenic fossil]

Albrecht:

[stiff fable]

Not void tech, but void tech exists anyway

[smoky solstice]

yeah but why would he do that

[stiff fable]

points at foundry and the protoframes

[smoky solstice]

it's motorcycles, do the hex really need those

[scenic fossil]

How else would you fight a freakin litteral army and a cosmic horror

[stiff fable]

He prepped it for the Drifter not for them directly

[smoky solstice]

I mean they're cool but internal combustion engines would've sufficed

[scenic fossil]

Also infested tech

(thx On Lyne managers)

[smoky solstice]

well probably not with your mode of transport

[scenic fossil]

I wonder how atomicycles dont get corrupted with techrot

[smoky solstice]

idk, just seems like a weird detail lol, albrecht came in, told this company like "hey there's this really cool tech", I guess gave them the finger and the tech to replicate it and boom, void bikes?

[stiff fable]

They do, just not ours

Also I don't think he modified the entire production line, just one that he left for Drifter to find

[smoky solstice]

anyway, back to brass tax, none of this disproves us letting wally in through the ARG

that being the means to which wally got there

[stiff fable]

Again, Wally's present in 1999 before the ARG started

[smoky solstice]

but what's the evidence for this

[stiff fable]

Whispers

Lotus Eaters

[smoky solstice]

but as i said, that scene could've been post-ARG

[stiff fable]

It wasn't

[smoky solstice]

and I'm not fully sure how this ties in

[scenic fossil]

...

[smoky solstice]

still, even after the explanation

[scenic fossil]

Dialogues

[chilly iron]

There's no void in those bikes, they're hollvanian engines

[stiff fable]

Lotus Eaters is the Drifter heading off Wally in 1999 before going to 1999

Because Lotus has Albrecht's phone in the present and it's calling 1999

So she sends you there to intercept the call

Like yeah the quest was super lame and not worthy of being called a quest but it explained itself

[smoky solstice]

I guess I'm just curious where in this it's confirmed that all of this happened before the events of the ARG

like obviously for us the ARG happened later, but I mean in the game's timeline

[stiff fable]

The prerelease/demo mall has stuff happening in it that suggests it's before the loop changes

Then the ARG entered the mall

Thus the ARG happens between when Albrecht is in 1999 (Whispers) and when Drifter joins the loop (The Hex)

[smoky solstice]

oh and the mall we see in Lotus Eaters is the pre-release mall?

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[smoky solstice]

ok yeah that would very much imply your version of events

[stiff fable]

It basically goes release order with a whole bunch of stuff happening with the Drifter off-screen between Lotus Eaters and The Hex

Which in retrospect is a pattern with the Drifter

[smoky solstice]

but man the arg had to have done something more significant than "wally was already there but we made it more there"
or am I misunderstanding and there were multiple points where Wally was like in and out due to variables and in the ARG we essentially let it get back in and sollidfy itself there

[stiff fable]

I mean none of the ARGs are really big plotwise

[smoky solstice]

well yeah, idk almost anything about the Zariman ARG but this was still like an ending with something happening

[stiff fable]

The Zariman ARG just reveals who the Void Angel we fight during Angels of the Zariman is

[smoky solstice]

and if it's us helping Wally in some significant way, it works further to establish the Wally-player connection

further established in the quest, then further established in gameplay (the eye...)

[stiff fable]

The Fortuna ARG gave a password that showed where the Exploiter Orb fight would start

[smoky solstice]

...isn't that revealed in Angels of Zariman?

[stiff fable]

Yes

[smoky solstice]

wow

[stiff fable]

That's how important the ARGs are

[smoky solstice]

idk, I still think there's something there

the visual of wally just taking over and essentially laughing at you feels more significant than just a fart

[stiff fable]

it's just a last minute twist

[smoky solstice]

and I'm not gonna stop going about the eye thing until the next main story quest releases\

[stiff fable]

You're led to believe that you're helping Albrecht

[smoky solstice]

I am fully in the eye believer camp (aka, wally isn't gone from 1999 as it seems)

[stiff fable]

And "oops all Wally" is the final twist

Err we know Wally's still around in 1999

Walk near one of the speakers in the mall

[smoky solstice]

oh THANK YOU, someone gets it

[chilly iron]

"Rap tap tap"
We're here to make sure he doesn't do anything in 1999 again. It's not that he couldn't try again, it's that he hasn't. We're there just in case.

[smoky solstice]

yeah, or the numerous eye monitors in Hollvania, or the Apex Tank hack with all the eyes and the ominous message, or the eye that appears on your hud to show the date and time, the eye associated with Wally through the quest where it's revealed the green text was Wally this entire time (well, green text could've also been hijacked by Wally BUT THE EYE STAYS)

and obviously ARG significance of the eye

something's up here for sure and the next main story WILL reveal some hidden Wally agenda, or at least that we haven't cleaned everything up and it wasn't just a nice perfect happy ending, I'm pretty much as all in as you can get emotionally on that

[stiff fable]

Next update is going to be technocyte coda hahah

[smoky solstice]

oh I guess that could be called a main story quest, I assume it won't be like a quest thing though

[stiff fable]

We won't see any Wally 1999 content, the loop is keeping him out nicely (even if he's still around)

Yeah it'll be part of the Echoes update

[smoky solstice]

I mean like 6 months from now at least, or however long it takes DE to put out main story quests, honestly, still being fairly new to the game, lack a decent grasp on that

[stiff fable]

Which are the "unfinished business" updates where they put in a bit more content before moving on

[smoky solstice]

but like... it was supposed to be shipped with 1999, are you telling me they wanted to ship 2 different quests?

with one of them having a part 2?

[stiff fable]

No it's not going to be a quest, it's going to be the Echoes update like I said

[smoky solstice]

oh yeah I get it, but I just mean when the next big story quest comes out, aka I'm assuming maybe we have to wait half a year for that but again, not really fully sure what the modern post-reb cycle has been so far

[stiff fable]

Yeah it probably won't be 1999 related

[smoky solstice]

it will be wally related though

[stiff fable]

They've never done two quests in a row on the same subject

[smoky solstice]

well yeah but it's still the main villain of this arc

[stiff fable]

Right, but it's more likely that at Tennocon they reveal that we're following Albrecht to Tau

[smoky solstice]

was there some hint towards that somewhere

[stiff fable]

And that the next few regular updates will be Warframe-focused like Koumei

Actually yeah a whole bunch

Albrecht mentions it

Then Lettie's final romantic dialogue has her ask about the Sentients since you mention that Wally will be pursuing Albrecht to Tau

[smoky solstice]

oh you seemed to answer both of my questions, because the followup would've been how do we even know for sure Albrecht is in Tau

because i didn't see the Lettie romance dialogue, just the mention in the quest

[stiff fable]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1ht9xjx/as_a_reminder_of_the_new_strange/

[smoky solstice]

which on its own would've definitely been closer to "theory" status rather than "pretty much confirmed"

[stiff fable]

Drifter: Tau. If that's where Entrati is headed, my Xipe Totec will follow him. And it's too important to let them have it.
Lettie: This Tau. This is where the... sentients were sent ¿no? This fake race made by fake gods the orokin
Drifter: Yeah, but then we never would have met. Or started dating. So... small upside?
Lettie: Jajaja sí Small upside But why? Why is this place so important that it will take you from me some day
Drifter: I'm not sure.

So yeah, Tau

Guessing next year?

[glacial bough]

I doubt.

[smoky solstice]

OMG WHAT

MESOAMERICAN WARFRAME WORLD

[stiff fable]

Sure seems like. I'm hyped.

Also if that's your jam read A Memory Called Empire

[smoky solstice]

I mean even if we don't go to Tau next update, which this seems to heavily imply, if not confirm, we will at least eventually go to, just the concept

now it's not just gonna be path of exile with the really cool aztec themed ancient civilizations

ah, this actually got me so pumped

...there will also be something weird with wally though, for sure

[stiff fable]

But of course

Still, friendly Sentient syndicate?

[smoky solstice]

oh, it seems to also have some mesoamerican sci-fi thing going? honestly I'm not a huge book guy but I'll keep this recommendation in mind

[stiff fable]

Maybe Narmer involvement

[smoky solstice]

bold to assume they'd be friendly, idk, especially given how genocidal they've been in regards to, well, all of their messaging I believe

I mean Hunhow has kinda mellowed out ig

[stiff fable]

And yeah AMCE is about a space empire that's based on Mesoamerican culture instead of European stuff

See I think the Sentients that left Tau were the ones who wanted to fight

The ones that stayed behind were less combative

[smoky solstice]

hm, it's just hard to imagine us cooperating with an aztec-based empire

but I guess depends on how deep they go with the comparison

[stiff fable]

I dunno that they still have an empire

Tau's been completely silent since the Old War

No signals, nothing

[smoky solstice]

wait

wait, ok, hear me out for a sec

[main crane]

I have a question about the Sentients. When they were created, they had the ability to replicate. However, the Void rendered them incapable of replicating and reproducing. Did they go to Tau through the Void?

[lean garden]

no, they took the long way to tau

Thats why they were designed to adapt

[graceful swan]

Going back they took the Void though didn't they

[stiff fable]

I find it very amusing that Kuva potentially can cure the Sentient's damage from their void bath

[smoky solstice]

so in path of exile, the vaal is kinda the aztec themed empire, it gained prominence through the use of corruption, which gave them a ton of power and wealth but eventually led to their demise

so, now I'm thinking, what if it's a similar idea, except the Sentients living on Tau, they are utilizing the Indifference's gifts, which have led them to luxury and prosperity, but perhaps some sort of upcoming doom as well? @stiff fable

but nah, that wouldn't work

why would Albrecht go there

nevermind

thought I had a brain blast for a second

[stiff fable]

There's always been something weird about the Sentients and their relationship with the void

Lotus met Wally at some point

And eidolon energy has something to it that messes with void energy

[main crane]

Thanks. Now I get it.

[graceful swan]

Indifference doesn't care about the Tau Sentients just wants Albrecht

Well and Operator

[smoky solstice]

idk, that little tease though got me so pumped

what a reveal, this game just keeps getting cooler, it doesn't stop, I think my sanity is slowly leaving me

like you'd think eventually it just falls off and that's it but it KEEPS GOING with cool stuff

anyway, gonna be hard to top the hex regardless so I should temper my expectations, as I did with 1999

[stiff fable]

I think I'm most excited for the chance of new sentient weapons and what the music would sound like

[smoky solstice]

oh you're so right

the music

[main crane]

I bet the music would be crazy. Gonna get those somachord tunes

[graceful swan]

I wonder if DE will update how many we can have with it

[smoky solstice]

each new area has had bangers. I mean angels was a little weirder but I still love the little melody you hear in the bounty completion section, and just the general sound design

duviri was amazing

whispers was really cool, although not entirely my vibe so I'm kinda 50/50 on it

1999 was amazing

and they've all brought something completely new to the table, although meshing with the existing kinda trademark warframe sound really well, I reeeeally wonder how an Aztec themed update would do that

[main crane]

I have a feeling that the music would be similar to when you're in the Murex and Praghasa in New War. Or something similar I guess?

[stiff fable]

Yeah that's my pre-Tau desire

Make Praghasa a node

[smoky solstice]

honestly I forget what soundtrack was even used in those spots

actually now that I think about it, hybrid abominations style music could work

which would be awesome since it's one of my favorite tracks in the score

coincides with a really cool moment in new war, although there's like a million of those

I could probably make a top 10 of really cool moments in the new war alone

[main crane]

Is it just me or is it when you're playing Teshin in the New War, the background music is like an intense version of the Duviri music?

[smoky solstice]

is it on the OST?

although it wouldn't be surprising

keith power scored the new war and duviri, or at least the main duviri track, honestly not sure if others play during duviri now that i think about it

aside from the little guitar hero sections or like separate people in duviri singing

wait is Sunkiller the one? because I think I get what you mean

[stiff fable]

Duviri has a fairly extensive ost if I recall

There are a bunch of Somachord tones at least

[smoky solstice]

could be that I'm misremembering

riders of the void is the one I care most about, specifically that one part towards the end

I mean all of it is really good but that one moment is like maybe a top 3 musical moment in warframe

half of what keeps me entertained during duviri runs lol

honestly maybe a top 2

nothing's beating the sacrifice score but this gets close

[tame radish]

I'd totally pay for a warframe book with all the lore and entries. There's enough to do a 10 pages book at this point.

But not sure if people like sIEGE or StallordD would be able to publish it due to copyright

But not sure if people like sIEGE or StallordD would be able to publish it due to copyright

[graceful swan]

I'd do it without publishing it

DE don't care about the lore community as much as they do people who just like gameplay

Most players are the same

[restive river]

I’d rather Gray somehow post a physical version of the archives

[tame radish]

Most of players these days are glaive/torid inc and AOE braindeads.

[graceful swan]

Gray lore videos are great

And way better than Seige calling everyone Wally

[restive river]

Better than 99% of all others

[restive river]

Guys, this random NPC smiled
They’re Wally

[graceful swan]

Stallord loves mentioning Oro

[blissful merlin]

Oro is def one of his fav topics to bring up lol

[graceful swan]

Gray could definitely get stuff wrong or new info making stuff incorrect but his info is usually based on stuff the game gives

[tame radish]

I think each one explains the lore wherever he wants, StallordD provides solid recaps and explanation, sIEGE has good theories and speculation, corgmighty is really good on doing summaries and general info.

[graceful swan]

Siege theories are often baseless

Stallord is alright minus his obsession with mixing theories and fact

[lament stirrup]

The only warframe theorist I trust are the worms in my brain.

[restive river]

Same

I would not trust siege’s theories ngl, as Nemesis stated they’re often baseless

[graceful swan]

Good example of his theories being bad was his vid that said is Diviri the Tenno’s dream

[proper barn]

dream in what sense?

[graceful swan]

Duviri was in the Operators mind the whole time

A continuation of the Second Dream

[quartz sky]

I don't think it was actually in their mind, it was created by the void based on information IN their mind

[restive river]

They’re stating a theory DSiege had
We know that Duviri is a product of conceptual embodiment from the Drifter’s mind and emotions.

[quartz sky]

Oh word

Also I didn't see the names and they're literally og lore chat people

[graceful swan]

His channel actually has comments like this lol

[quartz sky]

So I'm embarrassed

That's crazy

[graceful swan]

After Stallord made his lore vid people believed Albrecht went to 1999 before Drifter created it

[restive river]

Which def is not the case

Albrecht was there for the Zariman parades and we don’t know exactly when he went to Duviri but it was most probably after the Zariman incident

Nothing even suggests he was there before it was made

I know the void is weird but Drifter still needs to create Duviri for it to exist

[graceful swan]

Ducky Red Fortuna is now older than blue Fortuna

[barren jasper]

@serene agate first, how far into the game's story are you?

[serene agate]

Way past, just don't know the full lore of duviri

[barren jasper]

ok so it was made from a children's book from the drifter's mind basically

the book itself was to help children learn the importance of managing each emotion for the case of void jumps

[restive river]

NO

😭

[restive river]

Minor correction
It was made to manage emotions generally, not just specific emotions

[graceful swan]

It worked too well

[serene agate]

Ok, so I guess it didn't help as much as I guess the crew and passengers gave out too much emotional energy disrupting the void jump

[quartz sky]

Repressed reality oops

[woven coyote]

Nah it wasnt the crew's emotions that disrupted the jump

[graceful swan]

Wally casually showing up during the jump

[grim hazel]

[Hey Kiddo Intensifies]

[restive river]

We don’t know the exact cause of the incident
But yeah Wally did show up in the engine room :p

We know they were having issues, if I had to guess Wally was making his finger be difficult for them, maybe til he had finer control so he could muck it up

[upbeat glacier]

God I swear the orokin make up rules

Orokin

Dax relationship is illegal

Also the orokin

Warframe relationship is legal bro

[glad elbow]

Rules for thee, not for me

[graceful swan]

They're still human

[restive river]

Glad we killed those guys

[upbeat glacier]

Dagath backstory is sad

She needs hugs

[silk atlas]

It's almost like they own the place lol

[glad elbow]

They saw themselves as God's and did whatever they saw fit is my take away

[restive river]

Still want a cutscene or something where we relive the night of the naga drums.

[silk atlas]

Somebody should kill those guys

[restive river]

That’s exactly the case

[glad elbow]

Most definitely

[graceful swan]

It's almost like they were the lawmakers

[upbeat glacier]

Well if they saw themselves as gods guess we are kratos

[glad elbow]

My favorite lore tidbit is that Mods are canon. Which means they literally weaponized racism by having mods that deal more damage to grineer or Corpus.

[pure fox]

Do you guys think there's like... a physical slot on our gear where we put our mods? Like a deck slot on a yugioh duel disk?

[restive river]

yes

just kinda
jam em in there

[upbeat glacier]

I mean

Are corpus human too?

[glad elbow]

Might be how it works, like what we do with the stuff in the orbiter

[restive river]

Yes.

Everything is human or human-made

[glad elbow]

Ye

[pure fox]

"Yeah bro lemme just swap my usb drives on my cedo r/q"

[upbeat glacier]

Idk how ngl

[restive river]

The only thing we don’t know the true origin of is the infestation.

[graceful swan]

The Sun

[woven coyote]

in the olden days mods used to show as little lightbulbs on your gear

[restive river]

The planets

[graceful swan]

Space

[restive river]

So like that one christmas skin?

[glad elbow]

Lemme just slot my Damage increasing L.E.D

[pure fox]

How old are we talking? I played when banshee came out and I dont remember that

[upbeat glacier]

Excalibur umbra was new when I was first playing

[pure fox]

Also missed opportunity for warframe's roguelike mode not having mod drops that we install mid run

[restive river]

When I first started they just added Octavia

[pure fox]

But right, on topic, mb

[restive river]

Decrees: am I a joke to you?

[pure fox]

Lol

[upbeat glacier]

Hear me out

Be drifter

Rizz up margulis

Propose to her on Ballas grave

W move

[pure fox]

So do mods run on tenno void juice then?

[restive river]

Margulis is dead 😭

[pure fox]

Or does any power source work. I dunno that I've heard of any other factions using them, although I think it was alad V who said we'd do anything if they just throw us some mods

[upbeat glacier]

Lotus

[woven coyote]

one of the closed betas

[restive river]

No, cause enemies use them and predate the tenno

[restive river]

I mean
Ok yeah the programmed Margulis in her head
Kinda weird to rizz up your alt self’s adoptive mother tho

[pure fox]

Hey bro, I'm your dad brother now

[restive river]

not even sibling
The Drifter is just another version of the Operator
It’s arguably worse in some ways

[woven coyote]

probably not tenno void juice just void juice
remember most orokin tech was void powered

[glad elbow]

Lol

[woven coyote]

also samodeus did imply all mods were his creation and then he got bored and made rivens or something along those lines

[graceful swan]

Brother but not

[restive river]

So he invented weaponized racism?

[pure fox]

Right right, that I do remember. I've been so focused on the Wallman stuff that I've forgotten a lot of the basic stuff

[restive river]

Sibling’nt

[woven coyote]

possibly

[pure fox]

"Every Mod Procedural" - No Man's Frame

[woven coyote]

unfortunately his lore wasnt really expanded past that old email

[restive river]

Cancelling them on origin system twitter rn

[woven coyote]

kim 6585732784.0

[restive river]

[graceful swan]

I still find it funny after we get stabbed another one shows up making what Ballas said a little more true

[upbeat glacier]

I just want to spite ballas

[graceful swan]

Now Warframe show us more Tenno

[restive river]

I’m torn
Cause
Spite ballas
But it’s weird

[pure fox]

"Oh you killed me? Lemme just move some timelines around real quick... Uh oh looks like your actions are invalid because I arbitrarily tampered with causality. Try harder, kid"

[pure fox]

DE must have been on a Stein's Gate binge when they wrote 1999

[restive river]

Possibly

Rebb mentioned Bleach on the devshort today

That was neat

[upbeat glacier]

Cephelon cy made a interesting point

How do the grineer pay for all the equipment we destroy

[pure fox]

Conquest

[upbeat glacier]

Considering the grineer don't buy or sell or really even make anything of their own

[pure fox]

We know there are grineer colonies and the like, I've always assumes they have something like a war industry and create most of their own goods, or tax their colonists into oblivion

[woven coyote]

they also do in fact trade with the corpus

[proper barn]

To BE FAIR Grinner are originally like Factory workers

so i do think they actually make things.

like we attack literally factorys.

[woven coyote]

say a corp wants to sabotage a rival corp, they can sell to the grineer atacking that rival

[upbeat glacier]

I thought they are at war

[proper barn]

they are

[woven coyote]

corpus arent monolythic

[proper barn]

Smile.

[woven coyote]

they arent like a government or nation
more like a bunch of corporations loosely tied by the board

very loosely

so again

you got a rival you want gone ? sell weapons and suplies to the pillagers attacking said rival

[proper barn]

they kinda are a government/a company nation but they are different groups in it a lot.

[upbeat glacier]

I thought the corpus was a government with the board functioning like a Senate with parvos like the president

[woven coyote]

we actually see the internal sabotaging with the events that are related to ergo glast

during the glast gambit with nef and glast working against eachother to the point ergo makes a deal with us to fight against nef

and also during ambulas when ergo got us to help sabotage frod bek when he started making the new ambulas

there's probably other examples in older events but my memory is not that good

corpus may be united in their creed of money and profit but that doesnt mean they are past sacrificing eachother for said profit

[upbeat glacier]

Oh

Also are corpus clones too? Because they seemed genuinely shocked to see a baby

[woven coyote]

one codex entry mentions purpose bred so i think its more about trading bloodlines

and again corpus arent monolythic some of them are just average joes trying to get a paycheck not all of them would kill children just because

[upbeat glacier]

I'm just saying the jade quest the average corpus soldier seemed shocked to see a baby

Especially the officer

[digital grail]

Probably the fact it's a baby WARFRAME

[north ferry]

I mean, babies exists, so too emotions. Honestly I was surprised that she stopped. In fact I think it's a sign of her as an exception to the rule that she stopped for the the sake of a child. I think the Warframe part is relatively minor.

[digital grail]

Minor

[smoky solstice]

I decided to watch a playthrough of duviri on youtube because first time I played it I was literally a complete beginner, pre-Second Dream so I had no idea what's going on

having rewatched it, honestly I like it a lot more

it's really good, the little drifter monologues are nice too

[smoky solstice]

wait how would that part be minor? like I get your general point but like you're a captain (I think she was a captain, don't remember the exact rank) in space and your unit has locked in on an occurence that has literally never happened before, being like "you know what, screw it, just leave", seems fair

[stiff fable]

late but this is legitimately one of my favorite reaction images of the last year

[somber adder]

I don't get why sisters of parvos are crowned by getting murdered, what sort of sicko system is that? Why does parvos want people who got killed?

[pure fox]

you're questioning the logic of the sister-harem guy, just remember that

but no, I think it's supposed to be some idea like "Struggle is required for greatness"

that they have to undergo some terrible ordeal before they can truly become pwoerful

He has a line about whether the sister is "Diamond or dross inside" if I remember correctly

[somber adder]

I just don't get why he waits until we come along

[north ferry]

Because we're the biggest individual threat out there, but also, gameplay.

The important part is, like the Lich larva, them not getting killed, unlike everyone else around marks them out.

[lament stirrup]

The Sister Process requires a Tenno for the specter particles to copy.
I also think Parvos has an unhinged obsession with recreating the day his arm was cut off and he forced himself to swallow a burning hot jewel he was stealing.

[stiff fable]

Despite what the gameplay is showing, I think that the point is that they survive your gutting them as opposed to all the others

The original lich trailer made more sense, where it shows a corpse being dragged to the Worm Queen and being brought back to life

[smoky solstice]

omg we're getting best friend dialogue

I know rebb vaguely alluded to this already earlier but she just confirmed that they're bringing more content to the besties

which I feel is big, like I already really enjoyed the KIM dialogues, there were a lot of cool arcs there already, will be nice to see all the buddies actually online every once in a while lol

[tame radish]

I still can't believe how into the void - nine inch nails lyrics relate a lot with Warframe 1999 plot, and the coincidence that this song was released in 1999. Is like eternalism irl lol.

"Tried to save myself but myself keeps slipping away"...

[smoky solstice]

I can't even wish them a happy birthday anymore since I didnn't reset progress

[smoky solstice]

YES IT'S SO GOOD

I'M OBSESSED WITH THAT SONG UNIRONICALLY SINCE THAT MOMENT IN WHISPERS

both because of the warframe lore and because that line on its own just goes so hard

but yeah, perfect license

I mean I'm sure some of the people actually streaming the game were a bit annoyed by the whole copyright problem that never ended up being fixed but it is what it is lol

worth the mind blowing moment, I think that song is half the reason that moment made me soy face so much

although I didn't know that it was released in 1999 prior to you saying this, even though I listen to it on spotify, that's a really fun detail

[smoky solstice]

ok I may have a bit of a late appreciation for duviri

like I've always appreciated it, I'm probably in the minority of players who's played like a fairly large amount of it, at least outside of the super end game crowd doing it purely to max arcanes or whatever, like I genuinely enjoy a lot of aspects of it

but the quest and the music, while I've always enjoyed it, rn I'm definitely appreciating it all a lot more

[tall echo]

It's just a good song

[smoky solstice]

absolutely, I just love that, as Niko said, it just fits so well within the lore too

I mean at this point warframe lore is just occupying more and more real estate in my mind so it's like a double whammy - both a song that is just really good (I'm not a huge NIN fan but I am quite partial to quite a few of their songs so I like their sound as well), AND a song that works so well within the story of a game I love

[quartz sky]

The song is really well done!!! I kept trying to find full lyrics edit: I thought we were talking about a different song in wf

I only join when I'm exhausted

[smoky solstice]

which one

if it's 1999 related, you can find all the lyrics to the songs on Bandcamp with the soundtrack

[quartz sky]

The one in the intro

I didn't think of that tbh

[smoky solstice]

of 1999?

party of your lifetime or numb?

[quartz sky]

Numb probably

But also all the songs that dropped with 1999 are fire

[smoky solstice]

if it's the track right after it, then yeah, that's the one, it's definitely on Bandcamp

[quartz sky]

Let me check the Bandcamp and confirm

[smoky solstice]

the only thing I'm bitter about is the fact that the soundtrack in the final sequence of the Hex quest (not the finale) where Amir gets shot and that guitar progression plays - absolutely nowhere on the soundtrack

and I get it, it's more of a cinematic piece, wasn't meant to be on any of the songs, but it just sucks because I love that part so much

[quartz sky]

I knowww

[smoky solstice]

anyway, lorewise, in the duviri quest, when there's that story about the father and his three children, and the last one who feels nothing because they are the one who killed their father

is it referring to the whole the tenno killed their parents thing

[quartz sky]

It's totally numb

[smoky solstice]

I personally was looking for the lyrics to Cut Through and that's how I stumbled upon the Bandcamp lyrics thing

don't think the lyrics are on Spotify yet

[quartz sky]

If it wasn't from Warframe, and was released in the grunge dark alt rock goth corner of music rn it could be a breakout single

[smoky solstice]

yep, none of the tracks have lyrics

[smoky solstice]

hm, I feel like numb is too much of a cinematic piece to break through on any charts like that

I mean don't get me wrong, I love Numb, Cut Through, The Call, all of these I listen to individually on Spotify because they work so well individually

[quartz sky]

I think it's mixing is more cinematic

A remastering and numb would hit

[smoky solstice]

I just don't think they have a place on modern charts is all, which makes sense, since they were made to have been from another music era

although The Call specifically I feel could definitely break through in specific contexts I feel

[quartz sky]

The broody chord progression and guitar is totally goth rock

[smoky solstice]

I mean, if there are charts that often have goth rock songs placing there, then sure, I could see your point

like I agree they work individually as songs

not just as part of the quest and the gameplay

[quartz sky]

I still have "pick a side" playing in my somachord lol

Totally Fred durst

[smoky solstice]

honestly I prefer See It In The Flesh for that sort of vibe

I just love that one part part, not sure how to explain it

[quartz sky]

Let me pull it up

Oh!! The Deftones song!

[smoky solstice]

is that what it's alluding to? I haven't listened to much deftones

[quartz sky]

Oh yeah, the dark guitar, the sick percussion, the synth

Again that Fred durst voice though

But chino Moreno has a distinct vocal whine he does

[smoky solstice]

people say pick a side is beastie boys, which makes sense, for me it honestly has a gorillaz vibe, although that may be cause I'm obsessed with gorillaz music and the rapping-in-a-fictional-universe-with-a-non-standard-for-rap-instrumental thing just immediately places it with gorillaz in my head

[quartz sky]

I mean it's the whole era of those and limp biscuit

[smoky solstice]

the part I really like starts around 1:25 on the song, just so you get perspective on which part I was talking about

[quartz sky]

Gorillaz was pulling from those for sure

[smoky solstice]

that part speaks to me for some reason

[quartz sky]

Oooh yeah love that B section breakdown

You would love goth clubs lmaoo

[smoky solstice]

yeah calling it a breakdown makes sense I think

but yeah, that, Cut Through though

it barely plays at all in the update, so far I think I've only heard it in the non-combat sections in some seasons of 1999

I think it's season based at least, since sometimes it's Numb

but other times it's Cut Through, aka very little prevalence

but the lyrics, the sound, I just love it

[quartz sky]

As far as references, Beastie boys were more 80s

Give limp biscuit a listen and you'll laugh at how close they got it

[smoky solstice]

lmao I've always heard of them but I think never went out of the way to listen to one of their songs

[quartz sky]

Digital Bath by Deftones came to mind for some things

[smoky solstice]

based on descriptions I've heard, definitely sounds like it would allign almost perfectly

I mean in general matthew chalmers slayed so hard on this soundtrack

[quartz sky]

Break Stuff for limp bizkit

[smoky solstice]

I mean keith power deservedly gets the most praise in the warframe community I think, george spanos is probably the most underrated composer for me, given that he scored the sacrifice, but matthew chalmers, while I think he's worked for other warframe stuff before for sure, just came in with this update and just nailed it

[quartz sky]

I was wondering who to geek out to!!!

He really did! 90s alt music and numetal is my wheelhouse so I was living

[smoky solstice]

yeah and he even pulled through with some of the tracks that didn't try to capture that vibe

specifically I'm thinking about Core Containment, aka the soundtrack for most of the final part of the quest

although I assume he was the one who mixed This Is What You Are with the type of sound from Core Containment and that was such a master stroke, that deserves its own mention, despite being like a small part of the finale

I mean everyone pogged during that part right?

[quartz sky]

Oooh yeah, have you ever watched Queen of the Damned?

[smoky solstice]

no, don't think I even know what it is

[quartz sky]

It's a horrible amazing vampire movie

The lead actress is a legend and gorgeous

But her character is an ancient African vampire so there's all of these amazing modal vocal themes, but also Korn did a lot of the soundtrack so it's so cool

[smoky solstice]

wait is that why one of the answers in the 1999 ARG was some fringe African cryptid

some spider hybrid

maybe they were pulling from that

[quartz sky]

Maybe lmaoo

[smoky solstice]

anyway, not a vampire movie guy, haven't even seen the classics, but will keep that in mind for if I eventually decide to delve in

[quartz sky]

It's a right of passage into the goth music scene

But numetal is making a huge comeback in the underground scene so it's very clear that Matthew Chalmers knows what he's doing

[smoky solstice]

was never too acquianted with the culture, although I've never minded the general vibe of a lot of the things associated with it

[smoky solstice]

oh yeah, numetal definitely feels like it played an influence in a lot of the soundtrack, like even outside of the general sound, the way some of the vocals sound, I feel they wouldn't feel out of place in a Linkin Park song lmao

[quartz sky]

"Crawling in my skinnn" oh wait that's just the tenno again

[smoky solstice]

maybe DE licenses a Linkin Park song eventually too?

hopefully not actually crawling in my skin though lmao, I feel like that song has been memed too much to take whatever scene it's in seriously

maybe Rebb just takes that as a challenge though

[quartz sky]

Oh none of these are licensed lol, probably under parody law

Or it's aged out like AOL, which they can just mention

[smoky solstice]

none of what are licensed

the 1999 soundtrack? yeah I know, I mean like they did for Into The Void

[quartz sky]

Ohh

Possibly!

[smoky solstice]

and even outside of parody stuff, the songs sound nothing alike to their inspiration, it would be very hard to bring a case against DE for it lmao

anyway, yeah, glad there's someone else in this chat as obsessed with the warframe soundtrack as I am, like the more I listen to it, the more I fall in love

[quartz sky]

Only those super nerds could catch references

[smoky solstice]

that's why I'm on the Duviri train right now, a lot of it's sound design and music elements really

[quartz sky]

It's derivative but it's meant to be, but also they're really well mixed and well written, it's hard to hate

[smoky solstice]

and Riders of the Void still just occupying so much real estate in my brain

living rent free, and I'm glad to provide the accomodation

[smoky solstice]

nah I think DE are quite upfront, but it's not like they're copying is what I mean

they perfectly captured the vibe of what they were going for and that's just really cool, all there is to it

[quartz sky]

I love that riders of the void references famous Western lines and almost acknowledges it by having similar title to "riders on the storm"

[smoky solstice]

yeah, I wasn't exaggerating too when I said that the little switch up part towards the end (starts at around 3 minutes of the song, you'll know what I mean immediately, it's all over the quest and the duviri gameplay) is a top 2 musical moment for me

top 1 being just the whole sacrifice score, Your Creator is my favorite track in Warframe
top 3 being This Is What You Are (yes I love that bit so much I'm putting it ahead of essentially the Warframe theme)

[quartz sky]

Have you seen the 5th element? There's a famous opera song that uses a very similar voice modulator to what they use

But the cello when it hits is so juicy

[smoky solstice]

I have not

[quartz sky]

Another iconic so bad it's good movie

[smoky solstice]

what I love about this in particular is how it mixes the opera with the Western guitar sound and the general "grandness"

it's just so epic and all of the components are just masterful

in general the void cowboy aesthetic was a really cool thing to go for and it's just nailed so well here

[smoky solstice]

aw, I'm a little 50/50 on watching those. Like it might be entertaining when I've had a few beers but I also tried watching Zoolander recently, which yes isn't the same thing as it's considered by a lot of people to be an actually good comedy movie, but I just can't stand the satirical accents used by the actors

idk what it is, it triggers something inside me where I know they're doing it as a joke but I can't handle it

[quartz sky]

Oof yeah no cringe comedy here

It's more that the budget wasn't super great and the styling was very unique. Some of the treatment was corny, but it's all very serious in its story. Never going into the cheap 3rd person anxiety cringe

[smoky solstice]

huh, I mean if most of the problem is just that it's hard to take it seriously due to the fact that the budget wasn't there to make it actually look good

may be something I'm more partial to lol

anyway, back to the whole soundtrack thing, yeah, sometimes I get obsessive over particular stuff and this is one of those times, although I've always considered this to be an amazing moment

moments like these are what got me into the Warframe soundtrack, as a lot of it for me was more of an acquired taste

where at first I thought it was like okay, not bad, not particularly good where I'd want to go out of my way to listen to it, but over time the beauty of it has shined for me more and more
I mean, Your Creator was amazing to me immediately but once again, it's the best track in the game so obviously it was going to be

[stiff fable]

....do you mean Anansi, the most famous god from any region of Africa????

[smoky solstice]

yeah, I wasn't sure if I was being accurate by calling it a cryptid

[stiff fable]

@.@

[smoky solstice]

I considered it to be a weird step given that it has nothing to do with Warframe, which is why it was stuck in my head as like "what is this nonsense"

[stiff fable]

He's the Loki of Africa

A trickster spider who spins webs to trap people

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe in Africa it's really well known and I'm ignorant, that's fine, I'm also not African though so I'm not sure why there's a ton of surprise here regarding why I had no idea what it is lol

is it known like more broadly globally

[stiff fable]

yes

Very yes

Like, Anansi is as well known as the Greco-Roman pantheon or the Norse pantheon or any given Egyptian god

Despite the fact that the religion he hails from is not

[smoky solstice]

huh, I somehow kinda doubt that
I mean I'm sure it's known across the world in some sense but I don't think the vast majority of the general population would know what it is if you asked them outside of either Africa or regions very close or associated with Africa

[quartz sky]

I found the cowboy song I was looking for for your duviri vocal riff reference!

The Ecstasy of Gold from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[smoky solstice]

oh real quick I forgot to respond to one of the things you said but you were so right I just have to really quick mention that the cello IS amazing
it's not even just that it sounds so good, it's alos the call and response with the vocalist, great stuff

I'll check this out though real quick

[smoky solstice]

I mean it's also the fact that from the way it seemed to be expressed in the ARG doc I read, it's not like most of the community even had a good idea of what the answer was supposed to be until like one person put it in and it worked

[quartz sky]

Specifically the Enno Moricone version

It's cleaner without the odd movie pace

[smoky solstice]

my point is just that it was a weird thing to put there, I don't think it has much association with Warframe, and I don't know if it's that well known for us filthy westerners

outside of certain circles

[quartz sky]

There are all kinds of cultural references I think were meant to connect together outside of the game

Like the Mayan gods

[smoky solstice]

but maybe some people more attuned to ARGs will disagree with me and say that it works even as a general trivia thing because sometimes that's just part of ARGs

[stiff fable]

He's a major character in American Gods, shows up in Marvel AND DC comics, Sesame Street did a special on him and he got top-billing in the last SMT game

[quartz sky]

I think it's part of its world building to make it seem bigger

[smoky solstice]

sure but it's now confirmed at least that we are getting some Mesoamerican stuff, so Mayan isn't even out of the picture (although it seems like the stuff we're getting is gonna be more Aztec is nature, my point is just that it's not too out of the way)

[stiff fable]

The reason that no one groked him being the final key in the ARG is because that wasn't in keeping with the rest of the puzzles leading up to it

It was off-theme, not obscure

[smoky solstice]

no idea what American Gods is, is that some American thing I'm not aware of? In terms of Marvel and DC comics, I'm sure that's true but I'm pretty sure they literally have every single even close to godlike being ever conceived of on Earth covered so idk if that says much

[quartz sky]

It does feel like they're pulling in Gods which seems like it's building up to something

Connecting hunhow definitely was significant

[stiff fable]

ehhhhh

Loki's a god, Norse mythology isn't particularly significant to Warframe

[quartz sky]

An american tv show. Personally I didn't care for it but some really love it

[stiff fable]

Book before that

[quartz sky]

That's my point though

[stiff fable]

Book is MUCH better than the show

[quartz sky]

Good to know!

[stiff fable]

Shame that the author was just revealed as a rapist scumbag

[quartz sky]

Ughh, I'll get a used copy then

[stiff fable]

yeah good call

[smoky solstice]

maybe, I'm not like trying to say Anansi is some insanely unknown figure, only known among the African peoples, because I'm sure, especially depending on the communities you frequent, especially if you're into a lot of the comic book related stuff, which I'm sure has quite a bit of overlap with Warframe, there are gonna be a lot of people who get there

but I also don't think that it's so universally known to just have as an answer with absolutely nothing pointing towards it

[quartz sky]

I think it was a iykyk moment

Or it made people curious enough to do some research

[stiff fable]

Like I said, he was off-theme for the puzzle

[smoky solstice]

I'll make sure to pirate it if I ever read it lol

[stiff fable]

In general terms if you talk about webs, tricks and riddles, Anansi would be someone's first guess

He's super iconic

[smoky solstice]

yeah, fair enough, I guess just personally it felt a bit weird to put in there at all without any hints leading to it, as if it's just like prima facie gonna be known across the community

[quartz sky]

So what other gods have been mentioned?

[stiff fable]

Off the top of my head?

In just Warframes there's Loki, Voruna, Yareli, Zephyr

[smoky solstice]

should Wukong count? as far as I know it's like a mythical almost godlike figure in Chinese culture, although I'm not too sure if that's the case

[stiff fable]

oh yes, Wukong and Nezha both count

So does Garuda funnily enough, but the name is wrong for the Warframe

[smoky solstice]

Excalibur feels like it's referencing King Arthur or something, although I guess that's not really a "godlike" figure so-to-speak

[stiff fable]

Oberon and Titania are fairies

[smoky solstice]

overall, there's probably a lot of overlap with Warframes and either gods or other mythical beings of some substantial stature within the worlds their in

[stiff fable]

Both mentioned in Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream. Caliban comes from Shakespeare's The Tempest.

[quartz sky]

Proteus is a Greek god

But I was thinking more plot significant than name, like that connection to hunhow

[stiff fable]

Trinity may count, most Christian denominations believe that God manifested in three forms

[smoky solstice]

oh if that's what it's referencing then for sure

@quartz sky wait why does this sound so damn familiar

WAIT NO, I DIDN'T MEAN TO REFERENCE A DUVIRI LINE

[quartz sky]

Lmaoo

[smoky solstice]

BUT IT ALSO WORKS SO WELL

because this definitely sounds like the inspiration for riders of the void

and actually is just a beautiful piece

[stiff fable]

Story-wise there aren't a huge number of mythologyical references

[lean garden]

Caliban is also part of the naming set excaliber comes from too

[smoky solstice]

it even has that first bit of this is what you are, wtf @quartz sky

[stiff fable]

The War sword is probably a reference to the Red Rider of War in the Bible

[smoky solstice]

so the this is what you are-ey bits in riders of the void are even more layered now

[stiff fable]

Dividing nations and all that

Oh, this is an interesting one

Narmer was an Egyptian pharaoh

[smoky solstice]

which is weird, you'd think at least in the lore it would make allusions to the things the warframes are based on

but a lot of warframes don't even have solid lore so

[quartz sky]

Listen to the Diva Dance from the 5th element next. The vocals will seem very familiar

[stiff fable]

LOVE Fifth Element

[smoky solstice]

maybe I should watch the good the bad and the ugly

honestly maybe as I am kinda on the duviri arc rn, maybe I should go on a western movie arc in general

[stiff fable]

The pharaoh's were all living demigods, and Narmer specifically was one of the people who unified Upper and Lower Egypt into one nation

[quartz sky]

I was trying to convince vanilla to watch Queen of the damned too with the 1999 soundtrack in mind lol

[smoky solstice]

haven't really seen any of them, aside from the playing on the tv at bars, but that obviously doesn't count

[stiff fable]

I recommend it, I've said before that I would have loved if Duviri had stayed more Western-themed

[smoky solstice]

don't even get the damn audio

[smoky solstice]

where did it veer away for you in that front?

[stiff fable]

Make him play VtM Bloodlines!

[smoky solstice]

I feel like it remains with that aesthetic throughout

[smoky solstice]

oh vampire the masequerade feels like too much to get into for me

[stiff fable]

No no no the PC game

[quartz sky]

Lol

[stiff fable]

Not the TTRPG

[smoky solstice]

I have a big problem with narrative based RPGs where you have like all the choice in the world

like I couldn't even fully get past New Vegas because all of the quests had so much depth that honestly everything just felt like a bit much, I don't know how to explain

[stiff fable]

Though, the TTRPG is all about the approaching end of the world and all the unknowable horrors getting ready to wake up and usher it in

[smoky solstice]

I... didn't even know it had a TTRPG

[stiff fable]

It has two

[smoky solstice]

but yeah, vampire the masequerade just feels like a whole thing to get into

[stiff fable]

Well okay it has a dozen but we're just talking Vampire

[quartz sky]

Fallout has a fantastic radio soundtrack. Even if you don't play, it's a great playlist

[smoky solstice]

whereas just like a western movie arc seems chill in comparison

anyway, I'll write some of this stuff down on the notepad I keep for my backlog

so I don't forget

[quartz sky]

Def watch some westerns, although many didn't age well lol

[stiff fable]

Anyway back to Westerns and Duviri for a second

[quartz sky]

Lol

[stiff fable]

When Duviri was first introduced it had a very specific aesthetic

[quartz sky]

And here I was going to go to bed early tonight

[smoky solstice]

honestly I'm down just to feel the vibe

[stiff fable]

Wastelands, the Drifter's outfit, black and white colors, the Tigris shotgun, the horse and of course the musical cues

[quartz sky]

Running from the law

[stiff fable]

I mentioned that the original Duviri idea was that it'd be set on Jupiter and be a Westworld kind of deal

They moved it to the Void before release which is the version we got the teaser for

[quartz sky]

Possibly for plot reasons

[stiff fable]

In that version you'd presumably be constantly moving towards the Zariman to escape Duviri

[smoky solstice]

really? honestly it would make a whole lot more sense for newer players if it was in jupiter

considering it was originally shipped to the newest players

[stiff fable]

That idea actually came after they came up with the spiral

Which seems to have been after the trailer came out

[smoky solstice]

I mean unlike a lot of people, I don't even care about the Second Dream spoilers or whatever, newer players are not gonna catch any of that, it's moreso the fact that the quest doesn't mean nearly as much in the beginning as it does later

[stiff fable]

DE's probably going to end up locking Duviri behind The New War eventually

They've already put it behind Second Dream

[quartz sky]

Probably, especially since it's very difficult upon first visit mechanics wise

[stiff fable]

yeah

[proper barn]

I like it before the new war tbh

[stiff fable]

Anyway the idea seems to have been that at some point the Operator would discover that an alternate version of themself had been captured in the Void

[proper barn]

To introduce Drifger early.

[quartz sky]

Tbh I felt like they tied in samurai movies in with the western references

[stiff fable]

Hold that thought I'm going to come back to this

[smoky solstice]

eh, it's a balance between gameplay and narrative. Duviri and the Circuit both do a LOT for new players.

and I think it works well enough behind Second Dream, because that's when you start getting invested in the plot and can start following the Duviri Experience

yes, you don't catch the references to the New War but I think it's also fine to have that way earlier and for you to maybe catch later or maybe not

in other words, I think DE might be satisfied with where it is

[stiff fable]

The new idea seems to have been that the Operator would be helping the Drifter make their way to the Zariman and escape