lore-discussion

[woven coyote]

Yup

[lament stirrup]

Clever puns aren't mutually exclusive with rich lore.

[woven trench]

About the drifter
What is duviri?
As a whole?
Like,what is it?

[proper barn]

Cuz the tenno/warframes where literally what beat the senteints

[proper barn]

the drifter made duviri.

[tall echo]

Play the quest

[feral cape]

Duviri is the manifestation of a book ment to quell conceptual embodiment

[spice spade]

but like what were the sentients doing

[lament stirrup]

A void manifestation of the Drifter's trauma and their favorite childhood book.

[feral cape]

Ironic ain't it

[woven trench]

https://tenor.com/view/no-umm-runtheorun-minions-nope-gif-13317218

[proper barn]

war

[spice spade]

OMG…

[lament stirrup]

At what point in the timeline? The sentients have done * a lot*.

[tall echo]

Bah, too much going on here for me to keep up

[spice spade]

like what did they do that they had to make warframe

[woven coyote]

Void+strong emotion=things
In this case drifters childhood panic+ book about emotion control when exposed to void(tales of duviri)= actual physical duviri within the void

[proper barn]

A WAR WITH SENTIENTS

[spice spade]

oh

[proper barn]

they where LOSING. they had lost.

the sentients where at the DOOR

[feral cape]

Cookie where are you in the game

[spice spade]

OMG is that the war where natah was evil or something

[spice spade]

i finish it all!

[feral cape]

What quests have you completed

[woven trench]

So it's just a fairytale book that the drifter wrote manifested to reality?

[feral cape]

I don't believe you

[woven coyote]

They just forget after 2 months

[spice spade]

i didn’t remember in the moment either

[woven coyote]

Mother/euleria/gomaitru wrote it
But yes for the rest

[spice spade]

i’m sorry if i’m dumb yall

[lament stirrup]

The sentients were just flat out hacking all the Orokins advanced weaponry. So they turned to bio weapons, the warframes. Attempts to control the warframes with transference failed until they tried using teh Tenno, who actually cared about the warframes and could quell their rage.

[proper barn]

not written by the drifter. writtn by mother it's why she is the narrtor

[lament stirrup]

(Mother as in the Entrati character, not the Drifters Mother)

[proper barn]

yeah.

it was a mass produced book.

[spice spade]

omg i see so who was the warframes in the first war

[woven trench]

Segwaying abit here
Is it the same case for the necramechs?
Father said they're the first attempts at a "warframe"

[proper barn]

all of them

[spice spade]

oh so it was a free for all

[woven coyote]

Basically a weapon the sentients couldnt hack was the idea

[lament stirrup]

Dax soldiers infected with the Helminth. The Warframes you make in the foundrys are just mindless clones, thankfully.

[spice spade]

are the original warframes evil

[graceful swan]

Mechs were too dumb was the issue

[woven trench]

I dont know what's the necramech
My hypothesis is that it's a machinery that utilised the helminth virus for it to be powered by mummified bodies

[strange turtle]

Not just Dax, but (presumably) largely them

[strange turtle]

Necramechs are Void-shielded

[spice spade]

are dax human too?

[woven trench]

Excalibur Umbra:

[strange turtle]

Yes

[woven coyote]

Augmented yeah like teshin

[woven trench]

What?

[woven coyote]

Teshin is a dax

[graceful swan]

Would you call being a volunteer or not for a program evil?

[spice spade]

so wait is dax a original warframe

[lament stirrup]

Umbra's the exception, but fair.

[woven coyote]

Void=posion to sentients
To prevent sentient hack: void shield, also probably how dumb they were

[spice spade]

no i don’t think so

but umbra is evil

[strange turtle]

They’re void-shielded, which is why the Sentients can’t just control them. They’re just regular machines

[strange turtle]

Well, “regular”

[woven coyote]

Not even close

[lament stirrup]

The warframes weren't evil. They were just reacting how any person would to being infected wtih a disease that turns into a living weapon and being sent out to fight a war you never volunteered for.

[spice spade]

but he choke slammed the operator

[lament stirrup]

From Umbra's perspective, the Operator was trying to control his mind.

[spice spade]

omg

[strange turtle]

The Operator who tried to control him, after he had just been reconstructed after dying mid-fight

[woven trench]

There's a dead body in the center
And their literally called "necramech"
And father talked to his old necramech as if its alive

[spice spade]

Omg that’s so sad

[graceful swan]

Why is Umbra evil most of his actions were trying to stop Ballas and being forced to kill his son by either Kuva or the Infestation

[woven trench]

Bro got every right to be a villian

[lament stirrup]

Was it ever confirmed if the Necramechs legitmately contain corpses or was Vilcor just being goth?

[spice spade]

do the humans with the virus still have a conscious

[woven trench]

It depends

[lament stirrup]

The original warframes do/did (Umbra definitly does). The foundry clones don't

Kullervo and Jade too

[woven trench]

Idk
The name
The design
I just when "is this a mummy powered mech?"

[spice spade]

what about wally

[woven trench]

Wally is wally

[spice spade]

isn’t he a warframe

[lament stirrup]

No?

[woven trench]

Tf

[spice spade]

omg…

[lament stirrup]

Wally's a void entity.

[spice spade]

i thought he was a warframe that got sent off to void

[woven coyote]

Cookie been playing a whole different game

[woven trench]

Bro I haven't even done new war and I know he isn't one
Cookie be honest,have you even done any of the story quest?

[lament stirrup]

He might be the embodiment of Albrechts fear, but he's visibly more powerful than every other conceptual embodiment so I'm inclined to say Albrecht's fear was just Wally's first taste of human emotion.

[spice spade]

i’ve done everything

[woven trench]

Bro isn't palying warframe,he playing peaceoutline 💀

[blissful merlin]

Someone needs to replay all of the story lol or a major recap.

[spice spade]

except the warframe and side quest

[woven coyote]

Cookie was playing framewar

[alpine pebble]

Hi, I would llike to know something (for a possible articula decorations):
What are the relations between some frames-friends/rivals/enemies? All I know is grendel and gauss maybe being friends.

[strange turtle]

When did Vilcor mention anything about them having corpses?

[spice spade]

so i was wrong b

[lament stirrup]

I don't know, I was asking.

[lament stirrup]

Gara, Revenant, and Koumei are all associated with Cetus? Valkyr was tormented by the (modern)Corpus while Protea protected their founder during the old war

[strange turtle]

Unless there’s some super obscure lore bit about it, the corpse thing is entirely conjecture based on them having a skull design in their little corn cob

[woven trench]

It's just...their design
The "pods" seems to have wobbling,human shaped body being wrapped up in a golden material

[graceful swan]

They don't have corpses

[woven trench]

Theyre called necramechs for god sake
Surely they do,right?

[woven coyote]

Honestly wouldnt put it past the orokin/entrati

[spice spade]

isn’t the head a skull

[graceful swan]

It's purely design choice

[spice spade]

oh

[lament stirrup]

The skulls have a metal material texture, so unless they're dipped in gold (Entirely possible with the Orokin) that could just be Vilcor being dramatic.

[strange turtle]

Vilcor was talking to Snake like that in the usual machine way. Like people speaking to and about ships and aircraft like they’re people

[manic horizon]

Could ordan karris (in his prime) beat umbra

[woven trench]

If that's the case,that's like looking at an evangelion without all the machinery parts,and saying "it's just a machine"
Just doesn't sit right with me

[strange turtle]

And the Entrati live in the Necralisk, and their Loid Cephalon is called the Necraloid, and they make life-sapping weapons

[lament stirrup]

I think if Ordan Karris met Umbra, the Orokin would've been wiped out a decade sooner.

[manic horizon]

Teamed up instead of fight you think? I could probably see that happen

[alpine pebble]

my 2 cents: The necramechs really remind me of something like 40k Dreadnoughts, so maybe its close

[woven trench]

Ah bout loid
What about him?
And Otak?
What are they?

[strange turtle]

It’s just a theme with them, maybe one day there’ll be a bit of background lore actually explaining it, but until them they just have a theme like that

[graceful swan]

Construct and Cephalon

[strange turtle]

Loid and Otak are Cephalons, like Ordis, Cy etc

[lament stirrup]

Otak's a cephalon uploaded to Loid's shell because his original container was damaged.
I'm not sure what Necraloids deal is entirely.

[woven trench]

So their minds are just transferred?

[lament stirrup]

Otak used to be a geologist Archimedean, hence why he runs the mineral shop.

[spice spade]

is wally not harrow

[graceful swan]

Loid calls Loid a Construct

[strange turtle]

Loid’s a bit more complicated, but you’re not past New War yet so you’ll find out later

[woven trench]

Where is beo getting his lore from?

[lament stirrup]

Rell was piloting Harrow to restrain Wally, Wally was manifesting Rells Trauma as ghosts to attack the Tenno and prevent them from freeing Rell.

[spice spade]

omg i’m thinking of rell

the whole time

rell is the one that got sent off to the void

[woven trench]

I still stand by my point
Them necramechs are soul powered

[spice spade]

so who is wally

[lament stirrup]

Funnily enough, I think Rell is the only void-touched person that Wally hasn't imitated directly. (Depending on how you intepret the shadow monsters and dialogue.)

[woven trench]

A thing

[spice spade]

where did he come from

[woven trench]

The void

[lament stirrup]

It's not clear 👍

[spice spade]

why did he come though

[lament stirrup]

We know Wally is the most powerful void being and that Albrecht met (and unintentionally fed) Wally during his first void expedition.

[graceful swan]

Albrechts fear most likely

[lament stirrup]

When Albrecht shut down the portal to escape Wally, he snipped of some of Wally's "fingers". Wally would like those back.

[spice spade]

wait who is albrecht

[woven trench]

This "figners",are they metaphors for something?

[strange turtle]

The Entrati use weird vitality-stealing tech to fuel weapons, one of which is the Necramech’s Mausolon alt-fire, but apart from that no, just generic mystery Orokin power

[lament stirrup]

They look like fingers. But they sure don't act like fingers.

[lament stirrup]

Guy who discovered the void and invented most void technology. The plot is a solid 40% his fault.

[graceful swan]

Have you ranked up with the Entrati?

[spice spade]

i’m rank 3

[graceful swan]

Listen to the logs

[spice spade]

omg i see now

[strange turtle]

Didn’t discover the Void, but was the first to enter it

[upbeat glacier]

So I'm confused

What exactly is ayatan and Endo exactly

[woven trench]

...so what is it?

[spice spade]

it’s a generator for the railjack!

[lament stirrup]

I don't know. I just know that Wallys fingers can replicate themselves, power faster than light travel, and without them Wally is trapped in alternate realities within the void.

Not very fingerlike traits.

[woven trench]

Wait,is the railjack generator?

[strange turtle]

Not a generator, it’s what allows Railjacks to go in and out of the Void to travel

[spice spade]

go see his big finger in the railjack

[lament stirrup]

Yes.

[spice spade]

oh

[lament stirrup]

The Reliquary drive is a replica of Wally's finger.

[woven trench]

That was...anticlimactic
I expect it to be some big plot centric mcguffin
It's just our railjack teleporter?

[upbeat glacier]

Slip space

[lament stirrup]

No, the Railjacks teleporter is a replica of the finger. That the finger made itself.

We haven't seen the original finger yet.

[woven trench]

The finger made itself?
How does that work?

[strange turtle]

It is plot-centric. Wally wants his finger back, and it’s a whole part of his driving motivation

[strange turtle]

It just makes copies of itself

[lament stirrup]

We don't know yet. Just the the Orokin had to restrain it/them.

[graceful swan]

Decorations that can be sold for Endo

Endo
Concentrated energy used to Fuse and upgrade Mods. Can be found in missions, Dissolved from Mods, or extracted from Ayatans.

[upbeat glacier]

Hey Wally I also have a finger too

Guess which one

[woven trench]

So the railjack warp generator are copies of Wally's fingy?

[strange turtle]

Yes

[woven trench]

gets punched in the face

[upbeat glacier]

No I'm asking lore wise what did the orokin use them for

[graceful swan]

Decorations

[strange turtle]

Ayatans were just little decorations and trinkets

[upbeat glacier]

Oh

[strange turtle]

Endo was presumably used for the same thing that we use it for

[lament stirrup]

Ayatans contain Aya, which was used as a method of recording Orokin memories.

[upbeat glacier]

I always thought ayatan was like jewels and Endo was like money

[lament stirrup]

Loid compares them to advanced books.

[graceful swan]

Orokin money was Ducats

[strange turtle]

Potentially more, since we can scrap RJ parts for them, but that could also just be a gameplay mechanic

[upbeat glacier]

So what exactly is Loid is he orokin or human

[spice spade]

are grineer human

[graceful swan]

Clones of humans

[woven trench]

Clones,yes

[strange turtle]

Orokin are human, just a higher caste

[graceful swan]

Loid is human

[strange plinth]

yea
clones of clones of clones, but originally human
same way that orokin are human

[lament stirrup]

Original Loid is a human, albeit of a high ranking caste.

OG Loid was apparently directly beneath proper Archimedeans i nterms of caste. I imagine Albrecht gave him special treatment, though.

[woven trench]

Totally important and relevant question:
Is loid gay?

[upbeat glacier]

Also I'm confused how currency works in Warframe so the currency we have I'm assuming is what the corpus use

But what about grineer, do they have their own currency too?

[lament stirrup]

Yes.

[strange plinth]

yea

[lament stirrup]

Grineer drop credits, so presumably they use them too.

[woven trench]

Aha,I know he got some of those Albericthussy

[lament stirrup]

I think everyone convinced Loid and Albrecht are straight should be put in a blender.

[upbeat glacier]

I always wondered if it was like fallout new Vegas where there's hundreds of currencies but the middle ground currency is caps

[lament stirrup]

I think Ostrons, the Entrati, and Baro each have their own currencies.

And the Entrati's money is just rocks they've been stamping with their signatures.

[woven trench]

Goes to show that most currency have no actual values other then the one they put onto it

[strange plinth]

i was going to say that albrecht probably thought he was straight at one point, but that wouldn't change the 'should be put in a blender' bit anyway

[strange turtle]

They also do business with the Corpus, making it even more likely

[graceful swan]

No, they only use credits because Corpus control the market ducats was the main currency in Orokin times

[lament stirrup]

It drives me a tiny bit crazy that it's pronounced "Duck-et" and not "Doo-kat"

[woven trench]

Nah bro
Just your [insert your nationality] brain can't comprehend it

[upbeat glacier]

Also it's kinda amusing how corpus punishments are so petty compared to grineer

Grineer threaten death to their troops when you enter their ships

Vs

Corpus threaten no bonuses when you enter their ships LMAO

[strange turtle]

They need those bonuses to pay for their oxygen privileges, ammunition, maintenance and medical fees…

[woven trench]

What bonus 😭?
We don't even work for them

[lament stirrup]

The word Ducat is derived from the Latin word for Duke. It's phontically inconsistent.

[strange turtle]

Threatening their crews

[upbeat glacier]

No the corpus captain will threaten his men with no bonuses

Meanwhile grineer threaten their men with death lol

[woven trench]

Grineer threats are simple,you die
Corpus threats,is no oxygen,house,clothes,food,general living necessity

[upbeat glacier]

The part that's sad/funny is their gonna die regardless because fighting us is a death sentence

[strange plinth]

(something about the ancient romans here)

[lament stirrup]

I like to think Corpus medicine has advanced to the point that they can in fact survive being cut in half, and losing their bonuses is somehow worse than that medical bill.

Not because I pity them, because it's funnier.

[spice spade]

i sawed a grineer tied up at a relay

[woven trench]

I mean,Fortuna exist

[strange turtle]

In the Red Veil room?

[spice spade]

no

[lament stirrup]

Oh yeah. I forgot we have canonical head transplants.

[spice spade]

by an elevator

oh wait yes

do the red veil kill grineer

[woven trench]

Actually
Pretty sure most of the corpus soldier we met ARE missing their heads

[strange turtle]

They kill a lot of people

[woven trench]

Wait,they evil?

[strange plinth]

are they? is it not just that giant helmet
i feel like the kahl camp corpus guy says something about not knowing about the solaris prosthetics

[spice spade]

omfg why

[woven trench]

Red veil don't exactly have a "nice" aura to them

[upbeat glacier]

Which faction do you feel bad killing

I personally feel bad for killing grineer

[strange plinth]

in a way, yeah.
'purge the old' n all that

[spice spade]

corpus

[upbeat glacier]

I call them the highschool goth group

[woven trench]

Alright someone give me a rundown of all the syndicates real quick
Like who they are and their missions and what not

[lament stirrup]

Funnily enough, according to CHains of Harrow the Red Veil were by far the most level headed of the syndicates to start with

[graceful swan]

The Veil see corruption all around them. They are honour-bound to heal the system through a great and violent purge. No cost too great, no blood too precious. Change is sudden, violent, and a necessary force to ensure the system can return to a state of balance. Red Veil see themselves as merely the instrument of this change.

[woven trench]

Very vague
Put it in monkey brain terms

[graceful swan]

Veil kill anyone

System coruupt

[spice spade]

that’s scary

[woven trench]

They kill anyone that causes trouble?

[graceful swan]

Yes

They would probably kill their own if they had to

[lament stirrup]

Steel Meridian are Grineer deserters dedicated to helping other Grinner defect and defending civillians. Arbiters of Hexis are non-Tenno who have adoped Tenno culture (with the support of the Tenno) and seek to evolve it beyond just The Orokin approved warrior philophy.
Cephalon Suda is a librarian with an obsessive need to cataologue and research everything and anything regardless of how minute
The Perrin Sequence are unionised Corpus Defectors
Red Veil are also non-Tenno who have adopted Tenno culture, but they believe in the Tenno remaining a stark force of killers that wipe out injustice in the system.
New Loka are environmentalist who detest genetic engineering. (They drop the eugenicist angle after the Titania quest)

The Veil do kill their own during Chains of Harrow.

[strange turtle]

Do you want the others too or just the Main 6?

[lament stirrup]

Palladino signs off on you fighting void maddened Veil members to the death, and you don't lose standing for killing Veil splinter faction members during defection missions.

[woven trench]

Well the hell are we for then?
Sure don't see them around when universal threatening stuff is coming

[strange plinth]

Perrin Sequence, offshoot of corpus, focusing less on profit and more on 'general good'
New Loka, they want a "pure" Earth and its people. Silver Grove makes them back off of the purity standpoint, but i still don't super like them lmao
Arbiters of Hexis, run the arbitration, want the tenno to become more powerful (maybe they don't like the lotus? unclear)
Cephalon Suda, she's kinda just vibing, wanting to learn afaik
Steel Meridian are comprised of and help "rogue" grineer
Veil was explained

[woven trench]

Main 6 is enough

[lament stirrup]

The syndicates mainly handle off screen stuff, but you do actively work with their members during Syndicate missions.

[woven trench]

So then why are we opposed against Suda?

[woven trench]

So from what I can understand,Red Veil's are just Galaxy Rangers from hsr

[strange plinth]

Steel Meridian were also the ones to rebuild strata after it got blown up by fomorians i think

[lament stirrup]

The Veil is enemies with Suda because she doesn't approve of their destructive methods. Loka is opposed to Suda because Loka are luddites when it comes to technology (Admittedly, Cephalons are possibly the single worst thing the Orokin have done with their technology, but that's hardly the Cephalons fault)

[graceful swan]

Suda for someone wanting no violence loves sending her goons after me

[strange plinth]

what does suda even say for the death squad lines?

[woven trench]

How bout the rest?

[lament stirrup]

"You are a waste and must be erased." (download, history)
"I'm adding this to my data under the heading: consequences." (download, history)"

[graceful swan]

"You are a waste and must be erased".

[lament stirrup]

The rest as in every Syndicates relationship or, like, what?

[woven trench]

Like perrin sequence and arbiters of hexis

[strange plinth]

a good one-liner tbh, shame it never works

[lament stirrup]

Their relationship with each other? Or. What?

[woven trench]

Like why do they not like the red veil?

[lament stirrup]

The Arbiters don't like the Veil because the Veil are traditionalists for Tenno Culture. The Sequence oppose the Veil because they prefer diplomacy before violence.

[graceful swan]

I wonder what Red Veil say I don't know because I haven't had death squads because 1999 has been taking up my time and I'm with them

[lament stirrup]

How dare you go against us. You will be purged." (download, history)
"You are part of the corruption and we are forced to act." (download, history)

[strange plinth]

probably something about burning out the corruption, if i had to guess
idk perrin and new loka hate me, other four are cool

[graceful swan]

Not as good as Suda trying to rap

[woven trench]

Wait
What is this about having npc's from opposing syndicates coming for you?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[woven trench]

Haven't got one yet

[lament stirrup]

If your negative ranked to a Syndicate, they occasionally send squads of Eximus specters after you.

[graceful swan]

Unless you manage all your stuff you'll eventually get -2 with one of them

[woven trench]

Hey,I got -2 with two of em

[graceful swan]

They also don't show up in Duviri or Hollvania

Only Acolytes can show up

Stalker can't either

[strange plinth]

wonder why they disabled everything but acolytes
ik they're like
a huge part of steel path difficulty
but if acolytes get a pass, i don't see why stalker can't

[lament stirrup]

Honestly, giving the Stalker a steel path variant is the perfect chance to make him a threat again.

[graceful swan]

I guess it is DE needing them to get Origin System Arcanes without Vosfer

Unless they only drop the 1999 ones

[upbeat glacier]

I want more Warframes based on Egyptian mythology

[candid elm]

But what else is there?

I mean yeah there's plenty but not a ton of people know egiption mythology

There's ra, anubis, that's probably it

If anything I wanna see a Nordic god warframe

A Thor style frame would sell really well with the popularity of marvel rivels

[feral cape]

Konshu

Moon knight was received rather well

Osiris as well

And besides a thor themed frame wouldn't have alot of the iconic similarities with marvel thor

The hammer would just be a cool hammer not a vessel of thor power

He should be fat and more viking like

Not Chris Hemsworth

[lament stirrup]

Ngl, it was a massive downgrade when Marvel Thor went from a disabled man with access to the power of a god to a god with the power of a god.

[proper barn]

God of war thor

[candid elm]

I still say to do it, it'd be cool

[feral cape]

Thats not what I ment

Im challenging your mention of marvel

[proper barn]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-god-of-war-thor-god-of-war-ragnarok-mjolnir-thor-mjolnir-god-of-war-gif-27571416

[candid elm]

Ooooooooooooh

Dat makes sense

[proper barn]

Tyr could be cool

A 1 handed swords man.

[feral cape]

I want Osiris

[proper barn]

Osiris could he cool

Collecting parts of himself as a passive or mechanic.

Like have his ultimate be the opposite of xaku

And make him whole for it.

[restive river]

Loki: am I a joke to you?

[stiff fable]

I don't think DE's too likely to do "this Warframe is a god", because the only ones who are like that are Wukong and Nezha who were made during the push to launch Warframe China

Loki, Voruna and Yareli have the names but aren't actually based on their namesakes

[restive river]

Plus it sounds like their method for making new frames changes like
Every time they do one

Some may start with just the name, like Wukong and Nezha
Some may start with a mechanic
Some are repurposed later like Cyte who was the original alchemy frame concept apparently

I’m very excited to see what frames we get this year ngl

[gaunt ferry]

dunno if this is the right channel for this question
but do we know what the first symbol means that is on entratis phone, in the cutscene of Whispers in the walls?
From context im almost thinking its some obscure emoji

this symbol is what i mean

The rest of it says ||"Phone that ha" (like a joke message from a friend)||

[candid elm]

Yes

[normal mountain]

To me, no
To the rest of the playerbase: don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer

[feral cape]

Loki does a little trickery

Invis and decoy

Could even call switch teleport trickery the way I'm using it

[undone vine]

This makes me hate ballas more and more everytime I read it

[stiff fable]

I deeply appreciate that Warframe's smarmy charismatic villain is rightfully seen as a villain by the community at large

So many people seem to miss how "funny and competent" doesn't mean "good guy"

[restive river]

We need more crimes from Parvos so more people realize he sucks too

[stiff fable]

imshallah

[scarlet locust]

I love how sentinel lore is just oh hey we found other robots in space, wanna be friend

[visual ermine]

This is one of those details I either didn’t register or completely forgot in the term of so many years of not having narrative relevance.

It would be amusing if they ever came back to this point with something like, oh right, there’s a faction of anti-genocidal sentients that have been sending us insurgents this whole time. You know, the little guys you’ve been keeping with your cats?

[restive river]

I like to think they’re like the sentient equivalent to dogs
They’re just friends who wanna help :)

Though they seem to maybe lack the adaptation sentients have
Could be neat to have a sentinel update that unlocks further sentient potential in them

Let me feed them archon shards

[graceful swan]

Sentinel lore when?

[woven trench]

How did the events of duviri influence the main warframe storyline?

[graceful swan]

Lotus's hand landed into Duviri giving Drifter the means to fight back

[strange turtle]

I wonder if the enclave is still out there if they all got adopted by Tenno

[stiff wolf]

drifter becomes a main character

[restive river]

Did you play the new war?
Or 1999?

Also Duviri’s creation means Albrecht visits
Kullervo lands there
Teshin continues to live
And Lotus and the Operator are ultimately saved, Lotus from the brink of death and the Operator from the timeloop Ballas put them in.

Like
Just play the new war and everything after that

[woven trench]

Ah

Necramech is a pain to farm so can't I say I have done them

[midnight peak]

Do you think we'll ever have a final boss fight with The Man in the Wall?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[midnight peak]

I hope it's like a raid. 8 players in a mission type stuff

[graceful swan]

It'll realistically be in a quest so won't be a raid

[midnight peak]

Sad. I miss the trials that used to be in the game that were like raid content

[proper barn]

Raids aren't as good as you remember.

If you want trails but better play EDA.

[midnight peak]

EDA?

[proper barn]

It's the good version of trials.

[graceful swan]

Elite Deep Archinedia

[proper barn]

Oh elite deep archidemia

[midnight peak]

Ooooh

I wanna but I gotta wait for reset. I used them all doing Netracells xD

[proper barn]

Trials where really bad

Random insta fails and all you got was a single arcane.

[midnight peak]

I only did one. I never got to try the others

[graceful swan]

Are there plans to bring back raids or some form of larger group content?

Megan: Oh, trials. Oh, what a time. We have, I think on your whiteboard, there has been an idea for trials for quite some time. But it's all about balancing what we want to do. Obviously, the story. Warframe:1999 was huge. So, it has a place, it has a time. We just gotta see when it fits in. But we do have ideas for it, and we want to bring it back. We want it to feel like what Warframe represents now and not go back to what it was. So, yeah, it's a big project.

Rebecca: The thing we miss most about them is having to coordinate with the team. That's our white whale right now. It's a coordination-based mission

[woven coyote]

What a frightening idea
Cooperation

[graceful swan]

Defeating Wally being a Raid probably won't happen

[proper barn]

I think orb the 3rd

Will be the raid we get.

[silk atlas]

It very much is in this game, if Netracells and Ascension have taught me anything.

[proper barn]

Cuz the old ones suck so bad.

[main crane]

Hello chat. I have a question about the Drifter. Back in Duviri, when they got the hand of Lotus and met Teshin, they learned the ways of the Tenno, eventually having Transference to control Warframes. However, in The New War, when the Drifter gained their Void powers, if you choose to continue the story with the Drifter, he somehow has no idea how to control Warframes but eventually gets the hang of it. How did he not know how to control a Warframe when he already has done it in Duviri?

[tall echo]

They didn't gain innate transference, the lotus' hand allowed them to use it

Different feel between assisted and innate probably

[graceful swan]

They weren’t used to using a Warframe with Tenno power they didn’t forget

[main crane]

Ahh. Makes sense. Thanks for helping me understand.

[quartz sky]

Like driving in a videogame and then being behind the wheel

[shut robin]

what would happen if theoretically, we were to drive the orbiter into the crack between the zariman and the void

[graceful swan]

Either the Zariman wouldn't budge or Before you ask, no we can't move the ship. Something I wasn't sure existed has burst through the Albrecht Membrane and right now the Zariman is plugging that hole. Pop her out and we'd see Void Storms from here to Mercury. Which would be fascinating if memorably horrible. Anyway, feel free to bring me anything you think I might be interested in. That's all!"

[shut robin]

understandable

[brittle siren]

Orbiter is a base of operations not for suicide mission

[smoky solstice]

waaait, so does this also imply that when Ballas did the whole opening a rift into the Void thing, which led to the man in the wall kinda coming in, did the Zariman then go on to seal that hole?

also is this literally the first line she says when you speak to her? honestly a lot of that I feel went over my head

[smoky solstice]

and the reason I ask is that now I understand why the Zariman just appeared after the New War, that part was a little bit of a gap for me

[brittle siren]

Not really, void storm already exist before Ballas doing stuff in New War and they are literally void portal tearing the fabrics of reality

[smoky solstice]

I mean yeah but what Ballas did was on a much larger scale, no?

[brittle siren]

No, he just open normal portal

But it does somehow make Wally slip over easier

Though Wally still unable to have real physical form in our world (beside those murmur)

[smoky solstice]

well yeah but what I'm saying is that the Zariman comes in right after, doesn't that line imply that the Zariman was there to plug the portal? Because she says the man in the wall burst through the Albrecht Membrane and the Zariman is now plugging that hole, isn't that referring to the same thing?

well "something I wasn't sure existed", must be Wally though, right?

[lament stirrup]

He opens a massive portal between two solar systems. It was very much not "normal".

[brittle siren]

Void just puke Zariman out and it accidentally plug the void hole

[brittle siren]

I mean
Void storm is much bigger than his

[lament stirrup]

Void Storms aren't void portals.

[brittle siren]

If you look at the backround when you in 1, it is

[smoky solstice]

yeah but it seems like the Zariman being puked out happened after Wally pierced the membrane, which seems to happen in the New War, so it seems like that hole specifically is the one the Zariman is plugging

am I misinterpreting something about what Yonta (I'm assuming it's Yonta) said?

[brittle siren]

I can't find good image for void storm "barrier" but this would work for now

[brittle siren]

Fyi, Wally appear near the sun, Zariman is no where near the sun

And Zariman has already been puked out once, the exact time when all the Tenno was saved from it

So it could be Wally doing it, or not

But just to be clear, Wally and the real void is not the same

So who's know, maybe Zariman appear again is by chance and Wally is seizing the moment

[glacial bough]

No, that would be the assumed intent. Wally comes through in New War, Zariman moves to plug the hole

[brittle siren]

(Also now I'm convince that Void Angel and Thrax is not made by Wally, since he seem not using them at all, the only thing he use is the Murmur)

[lament stirrup]

Teshin explicitly states the Angels serve Wally and they're made from the ghosts of Zariman adults, who were all driven mad at the same time Wally appeared to someone besides Albrecht.

They also have the same void metal flesh as the Murmur's limbs.

The Angels also invade the labs during deep Archimedea if a player dies.

[brittle siren]

I mean
Wally literally born directly from the void
So he like the first child of it

[fathom ridge]

All the void stuff we see is definitely connected to Wally.

[brittle siren]

He didn't make Duviri

So he able to command Void being is not that strange

[lament stirrup]

Its not likely Wally made Duviri since he apparently can't access it with his "real" body, according to the lost island fragments.

[smoky solstice]

do we know for sure conceptual embodiment has nothing to do with Wally?

[brittle siren]

What I mean is Wally only create Murmur, the other is mostly Void doing, Wally just abusing them

[lament stirrup]

We know Conceptual Embodiment can happen without Wally's permission, since the Holdfasts oppose him. Otherwise its not clear how much influence Wally has over other embodiments.

[glacial bough]

Wally has no direct influence over CE

[brittle siren]

CE?

Also Incarnon is void infused weapon and yet Wally couldn't control them, so he has limited choice of what he can puppet with

[glacial bough]

Conceptual Embodiement. That's just a regular facet of the Void. What Wally is in control of are the creations we fight, Angels and the Thrax

[lament stirrup]

Its not actually clear if the Thrax work for Wally, given that they don't fight alongside Murmur.

[glacial bough]

He in theory also can influence the Operator, but that needs extra steps

[feral cape]

I don't think he can do any direct control of the operator

[brittle siren]

They kinda neutral, in fact, I think they are a force that no one really able to control

The only factions that Thrax is friend with is Orokin Corrupted and other Thrax guard

[fathom ridge]

Honestly if he does have any direct control over the operator then it's game over.

[lament stirrup]

One of Teshin's unused lines says the Thrax are born from Dominus' nightmares, which would in turn imply they're conceptual embodiments of the Drifters memories.

Which does relate to the Duviri Dax ghost showing up in the Circulus with them.

[smoky solstice]

what was the reason they're unused though

[lament stirrup]

I just know someone datamined them out. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[smoky solstice]

because if we don't know, it could just be that it didn't fit with the lore they're going for, no?

[glacial bough]

Not currently, that's what the extra steps are for. He presumably could given he wants Lotus to give us up to him

[lament stirrup]

That. Is a good point.

[smoky solstice]

but at the same time, it makes sense

so I'm not sure

[feral cape]

I do suppose

I do wonder why lotus has that as an option

[brittle siren]

So only the one who touched by the void can see Thrax

[feral cape]

Like why can she just give wally control of us

[lament stirrup]

She (somehow?) Drives Wally away at the end of New War.

[feral cape]

She doesn't own us in any sense she's just a handler

[lament stirrup]

So presumably she's helping to keep him in check.

[smoky solstice]

the better question is why Wally just gave us the power to be this force against them, that wasn't really part of the deal, it had no obligation to

also just from reading the wiki I've realised I'm really behind on my Zariman lore, goddamn

[lament stirrup]

I think the Tenno actively give Wally a foothold in the material world just by existing.
The 1999 quest dialogue also imply it wanted the Orokin dead for taking its finger(s)

[smoky solstice]

I didn't even know there was an ARG for that too

[lament stirrup]

It also may have been screwing around, if the Drifter's Kim chat recount if the Zariman incident are accurate.

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe, but did it really need to give us so much power? like I can follow the line that he wanted us to take care of the Orokin for it, but then to also have the power to challenge it?

actually, now that I think about it, the whole Orokin thing seemed like the main motivation for Wally kinda just going after the material world, but after the Empire fell, is the motivation still there?

[lament stirrup]

I assume Wally doesn't have perfect control over how much/what powers the Tenno have, since it doesn't restrict them after Ehispers In The Wall.

[lament stirrup]

Wally's exact motives aren't clear, but the whole. Mass murder on the Zariman thing suggests its not motivated solely by self defense.

[smoky solstice]

well what powers they have, yeah, but these gifts we have are a piece of them after all, like why give this big of a piece in the first place

surely less would've sufficed

[brittle siren]

Also is the Drifter void power is come the void itself not from Wally?

[lament stirrup]

We don't know its exact reasoning yet, since we don't know what the Tenno owe it in return for their powers.

[smoky solstice]

or maybe it's the fact that this is a piece of them that it can't really interfere much with it

[brittle siren]

Since the OP can't reset loop like Drifter

[glacial bough]

We don't know the extent of anything revolving around Wally and the Operator

[brittle siren]

We don't even know what he want when he shake OP hands

[smoky solstice]

like it's essentially given us a part of themselves, or I guess in a literal sense part of their power, and that's something they can't really put like a limit on where they don't give so much to where we can challenge them, it's like it either gives us the power or it doesn't, and I guess they thought that the benefits outweighed the negatives

[lament stirrup]

We still don't have the full context of the inital deal.

[smoky solstice]

yeah honestly I really wonder where we go next

I mean after the whole Coda thing

I assume there's going to be some big war again but there might be some "housekeeping" lorewise to do beforehand maybe?

[lament stirrup]

Its still not wholly clear what happened when they shook hands beyond every alternate version of the operator suffering/dying (with the exception of the Drifter)

[glacial bough]

I mean, we don't even actually know that they died

[smoky solstice]

yeah it's a bit unclear what that visual meant exactly

[lament stirrup]

Living people don't generally gasp and fall over. /j

[glacial bough]

The hanshake scene has no explaination in any meaning beyond connecting Op and Drifter

[brittle siren]

My headcanon is Wally is doing the same thing in every timeline, then when 1 accept the offer he killed off the other in case sth bad in the future could affect his plan

[fathom ridge]

Living people don't clutch their head and chest then dramatically falls over/j

[brittle siren]

But apparently the Void be like: say sike now Wally, then proceed to make Drifter it's 2nd child

[smoky solstice]

I get your general point but it could also symbolize some consolidation of those different versions

like the metaphorical but not literal death of all the different versions

[brittle siren]

Because apparently Drifter gain power by just entering the void, and not just shooting void beam, but time loop and accidentally create the whole city

[lament stirrup]

The Drifter got those powers by spending several millenia living in a conceptual embodiment of their trauma, not just by entering the void.

[brittle siren]

Drifter is getting more powerful over time and Wally isn't happy about this

[brittle siren]

But, Duviri in the Void

[glacial bough]

That wasn't a power, that was part of Duviri

[brittle siren]

The looping?

Drifter can use it in 1999 lmao

[fathom ridge]

It's actually drifter's ability ☝️🤓

[lament stirrup]

Strictly speaking, 1999 was already looping over roughly a single day. The Drifter just exapnded the length of the loop to a whole year.

[brittle siren]

Also Drifter transferences can transend with time too (they are doing it in Zariman)

[smoky solstice]

yeah but that was utilizing the duviri power tbf

[brittle siren]

I mean it not Duviri, it outside, loop or not it still a feat that Drifter power keep getting expand

[fathom ridge]

The Duviri power ?

[smoky solstice]

well it's hard to put a name to it

[brittle siren]

Loop slam

[smoky solstice]

but the ending of the hex quest seemed to imply that the way he expanded the loop is by doing the duviri begin again slam, which seems like a duviri related ability which he seems to be able to use outside of it

to whatever extent gets revealed in the future but for now we know it can at least extend time loops

[brittle siren]

Yeah we still have whole Void War

And again I doubt those power come from Wally, the Void is definitely seep it's influence into Drifter

It's will be so funny if the Void id actually opposed to Wally

[smoky solstice]

I like the name but wukong players may think that's just describing regular gameplay

[glacial bough]

Maybe. Albrecht is involved in expanding the loop to an unkown degree

[feral cape]

Albrecht did most the work

[brittle siren]

But he just using "time machine" to go back and forth

[feral cape]

He also created the timeloop

[lament stirrup]

We don't really have a pie chart on the Albrecht vs Drifter effort on tbe timeloop.

[brittle siren]

Yes, not by his own

[lament stirrup]

Loid smashed the time machine.

[feral cape]

No it was on his own

[brittle siren]

He literally can teleport

[smoky solstice]

well it's not really told what he did to do that, and it's still the duviri slam, that visual has to mean something, especially because it would be extremely lame if it was purely visual and Albrecht already set everything in stone for that to actually work

[feral cape]

Just key the timeloop to us since we're the important piece

[lament stirrup]

I think Albrecht also has void powers. Either from his connection to Wally or as some function of the time travel casket.

[brittle siren]

So you saying he was teleport by Wally then somehow gain void power to escape and kill Amir?

[brittle siren]

I think it's the latter

[glacial bough]

Albrecht didn't teleport. it was just piggubacking off of Wally moving them

[feral cape]

I don't find it unbelievable that John void guy has void magic

[brittle siren]

Or he make a pocket device

[smoky solstice]

honestly I do still wonder how tf he actually got into the reactor room with us

I mean he was taken by Wally too

[glacial bough]

Likely from Wally moving them around

[smoky solstice]

yeah like it makes the most sense that Wally spit us out there

[brittle siren]

Why Wally would heal Albrecht and let him kill Amir for the reactor explode like Albrecht want

That make no sense

[smoky solstice]

is it something that Albrecht wants though?

[lament stirrup]

I mean. Albrecht very much wants the reactor to explode.

[brittle siren]

He want us to befriend with Hex, but the reactor is like his plan B if the Drifter failed to do so

[smoky solstice]

because the opposite of that is not letting the reactor explode, and why tf would the indifference want that?

well I guess if we weren't involved in all of it

[lament stirrup]

The reactor exploding would keep the indifference out of 1999.

[smoky solstice]

that would be a goal for it yeah

[glacial bough]

Because the Hex dying still works for Wally's ends in Drifter interaction

[smoky solstice]

well it doesn't though, because I'm pretty sure the loop before we interfere ends in the reactor exploding

[brittle siren]

Also Albrecht managed to make a lot of Entrati device in the Backroom, so it not a surprise that he also make another time machine

[smoky solstice]

and apparently with each loop, the indifference occupies more real estate in 1999

[brittle siren]

But that also what Albrecht want

Also the loop change a bit when Drifter came

[lament stirrup]

Well, thats because the loop returns to before it goes off. If the loop ended after the reactor blew up the Indifference would be sealed out. Thats why the Drifter has to keep the loop going after saving the Hex.

[brittle siren]

So the actual loop is Arthur dead by the escalators

But it change to reactor

[lament stirrup]

Since Rusalka's gone (for whatever reason) the Indifference is no longer gaining ground in 1999 with each loop.

[smoky solstice]

yeah, honestly that part is confusing to me, what's even the significance of us saving the reactor if everything just loops anyway?

also, how are we having a party later about saving the reactor if it loops anyway after 12 am? we save it within minutes of that

I'm not contesting that the loop ends after we save the reactor, but it feels like the ending packs much less of a punch if it's literally just the same as before

except now we can control the big grey dudes

[brittle siren]

Maybe the reactor has sth that can expel the Murmur

[smoky solstice]

or rather I'm not contesting that the loop keeps going, sorry

[brittle siren]

Tbh I think the reactor is just extreme way to keep Wally out

[lament stirrup]

I assume stopping the reactor from detonating is for when the Drifter (theoretically) ends the loop.

[brittle siren]

Drifter "love" way is longer one but also effective

[smoky solstice]

maybe but then it makes no sense why the loop is still there after the quest

does he create a theoretical reality for the void that is in some way utilized?

[lament stirrup]

The loop is because Wally hasn't been repelled since the reactor didn't detonate.

[smoky solstice]

but the loop happens regardless of detonation, that's my point

the loop normally ends in the reactor exploding

until we interfere

or does the loop happen right before

[lament stirrup]

I assume Albrecht intended to end the loops with the reactor detonation when he left until the Drifter insisted on not doing war crimes.

[smoky solstice]

ok so the reactor exploding doesn't actually do anything but Albrecht, being in this loop and not having a concept of previous loops after the loop happens, thinks that it does?

[lament stirrup]

The reactor exploding repels the Man In The Wall (Its weak to radiation). Albrecht exists outside the loops.

[smoky solstice]

and then goes "oh wait, love is actually the key here, so this would be a much better way of doing this if I just kill you so you loop further back and then save the reactor after establishing relationships with the hex" towards the end after the drifter floats the option?

[glacial bough]

The reactor exploding would work to keep Wally out for the final loop we come in.

[smoky solstice]

ok but like why does the man in the wall not get repelled by the reactor exploding, every time it loops, Wally gets stronger in 1999 seemingly

[lament stirrup]

Yeah, there's a nonzero chance Albrecht didn't think to use the power of love until the Drifter reminded him that there are non-mass murder options.

[glacial bough]

But as we see, that's secondary to having Drifter connect with the Hex to leep Wally out

[lament stirrup]

Wally stops showing up in 1999 post Hex Finale.

[smoky solstice]

lmao love this theory

[lament stirrup]

And the Reactor exploding doesn't stop it during the loops because time loops to before the reactor exploded.

Which. Is admittedly difficult to follow given the very real possibility that the Man In The Wall doesn't fully exist in linear time.

[glacial bough]

Albrecht's plan A was always to have the Drifter connect with the Hex. He just masks it as his Plan B

[lament stirrup]

We don't strictly know which plan is A or B. Just that Albrecht set up both to happen if the other failed.

[smoky solstice]

well there are the eyes, still everywhere, which seem to be Wally associated.

But okay, assuming this is the case, saving the reactor doesn't stop the loops, but it does repel Wally?

[lament stirrup]

Wh

What do you mean eyes.

[glacial bough]

The eyes are Entrati stuff, not Wally

[smoky solstice]

the eye that appears in the green text, after the quest only showcasing the date, the eyes on the TVs which appear in Hollvania, I think the normal hacking minigame has the eyes but even if it doesn't, the secret apex tank hacking minigame has the eyes

[lament stirrup]

The 1999 eyes are a symbol, not an actual manifestation of the Man In The Wall like the ones in the lab.

Its also unclear if they're Entrati or Wally eyes (Which I think was a deliberate decision by the devs)

[smoky solstice]

but then why is it being utilized in the quest when the green text starts saying Wally stuff

like Wally is saying the stuff but Albrecht is like communicating it to you? or maybe just watching?

[glacial bough]

Keeping the aesthetic

[lament stirrup]

Keep in mind that one of Wally's signature MO's is imitating other people. The Murmur in Albrecht's lab are half made up of Albrecht's Necramechs mistaking Wally for him.

[smoky solstice]

well yeah but I can't just throw this out as just the aesthetic, it clearly has some association with something important

[glacial bough]

Yeah, it's related to Entrati. Same as in Whisper and on the POM-2

[smoky solstice]

maybe? actually kinda want to rewatch the quest and see if the eye differs in any way when wally takes over the text

but I mean, there's also one aspect to talk about

which is that the text is not communicating anything to the drifter or the hex

it's communicating something to us, which is another weird rabbit hole

[lament stirrup]

Oh yeah, that horrifying detail. Wally also tricked the player base into helping him during the 1999 ARG.

It's very possible that Rusalka's possession or the Murmurs breach in the reactor was the result of us "Spreading the signal"

[smoky solstice]

yeah, honestly I wish the final page of the ARG was still up so I could check how much real estate the eyes occupy there

since that's where the final part of the ARG, which is presumably us kinda inserting Wally into 1999 happens

[smoky solstice]

yeah I think that theory makes the most sense

[brittle siren]

Also Kalymos is still here, and we need her to fix the loop for some reason

Even after the Finale she still stay

[lament stirrup]

Kalymos also somehow has void powers. Which makes sense, but its still incredibly funny.

[glacial bough]

She's helping us keep things stable, yes

[brittle siren]

Well Albrecht use the void to heal her

[smoky solstice]

man idk, maybe DE kinda explains a lot of this in the coming main quests, or at least puts out side bits, like the POM-2 stuff to explain a lot of this

[brittle siren]

Cavia also has void power but only ability to talk

[lament stirrup]

We don't explicitly know how Albrecht healed her. My personal theory is that the current Kalymnos is a void-ghost like the holdfasts.

[glacial bough]

Kalymos very much doesn't have powers, she's just a weird kavat

[smoky solstice]

but man, the more I think about it, the more this player-Wally connection disturbs me, because the more I think about it, the more I think this may become a crucial plot detail

and if it does, Warframe will become even more insane in my mind lore wise

although it could just be a fun bit the writers did that won't be too important aside from Wally getting the help that he did from us already and him kinda teasing us about stuff

[brittle siren]

She definitely have power

1. Can become void spark when we want her to track Lecacyte
2. Literally immortal since nothing can kill her
3. Help the Drifter (idk how) to help the Hex

[lament stirrup]

Its not clear if Kalmynos' invulnerability is a legitmate plot detail or just the devs realising no one likes escort missions.

[smoky solstice]

I mean I guess the playerbase already interfered enough in the plot but like idk, something about this idea that has already been established in the lore makes me feel weird

[glacial bough]

I excuse the spark thing as gameplay, just to teleport to whatever the new location is

[brittle siren]

She also can communicate with us when we touch the msg device

[smoky solstice]

although it's also really cool so lowkey wishing the writers do it more, if it's possible without creating a ton of complexity and introducing a ton of holes

[brittle siren]

She can literally walk there lmao, so no, that her canon power

[glacial bough]

And definitely nothing indicates she's immortal, she's never been in direct danger since that one time she got sick and Albrecht did...something

[lament stirrup]

Right, except she manually runs to the Legacyte once she's tracked it down, no void orb required.

[brittle siren]

And she can appear literally everywhere she wanted

She definitely the most powerful car

[lament stirrup]

Vroom vroom.

[glacial bough]

Yeah, and the new Legacyte can appear anywhere underground. I doubt DE would have the model run everywhere

[brittle siren]

They can...

Again let me remind you, in Lotus eater, she literally saw us and lead the way

She in some extent, had power

[fathom ridge]

100% Kalymnos isn't an ordinary kavat

[north ferry]

Albercht is Cat

[brittle siren]

In Amir's New Years Kiss cutscene, he throws his glasses away, causing a cat's yowling.

[fathom ridge]

Cat man

[north ferry]

(Just to throw in more complications)

[lament stirrup]

I still want Kalymnos to get her own Warframe and do transference on it. There's no reason or build up for it but I think it would be funny.

This is how DE introduces quadrupedal warframes /j

[fathom ridge]

She pilots a Warframe to heroically save us /j

[brittle siren]

Wait so Albrecht is going to Tau rn?

[glacial bough]

Maybe

[brittle siren]

Since that what he said, and since we finished the Sequence he has more reason to do so

[north ferry]

Talking about cars, is the Valkyr that Alad V gets his hands on the og Valkyr or an og copy?

[glacial bough]

Either or, matters little

[brittle siren]

Oh wait, Ballas open portal because he want to go to Tau too

[north ferry]

I get the impression the 'Tau' holds another piece to the puzzle, I don't think Al is yeeting himself across space.

[brittle siren]

12. THE KALYMOS SEQUENCE
    ** CRITICAL DEVELOPMENT **

In a deranged attempt to transport himself and his cult to Tau, Ballas opened portals between the Void and conventional reality on an unprecedented scale.

This has attracted the attention of THE INDIFFERENCE, whose freedom of action appears to have drastically increased.

The threat posed by THE INDIFFERENCE is now at a critical level.

The Laboratories have come under fresh assault from the Murmur. Unless the Sleeper is awoken, Albrecht Entrati’s legacy will perish.

Everyone still want to go to Tau lmao

[lament stirrup]

I want to go to Tau. I'm obsessed with sentient equipment

[brittle siren]

I think even Parvos want to

[smoky solstice]

nah man I'm thinking about it and the eye has to be Wally related

[brittle siren]

But please no Corpus there please

[smoky solstice]

like it being in the Wally quest green text is a big clue for me
but the apex tank "you shouldn't be here" combined with all of the eyes in the background, like why would Entrati be messing around like this

this is SO Wally though

[north ferry]

The eye is symbolicly connected to Albretch

And you know. He has his finger prints all over all the events of 1999 pretty much.

[lament stirrup]

Counter argument, this is one of the funny ways to reiontroduce Alad V

[smoky solstice]

yeah but the way it's placed within the quest, it just seems like much too sinister and much too Wally-like to be Albrecht related

and again, the apex tank terminals

I don't see why Entrati would be doing anything there

I can definitely see Wally doing something there though

[lament stirrup]

Albrecht did work with the Hollvania government and Scaldra before he screwed off to commit crimes against humanity

[smoky solstice]

idk, I get it, I'm looking too deep into it, but so many things don't connect in my head and I'm itching for another main story quest like a crack addict every day just to hopefully get some more concrete answers for all of this

[north ferry]

DE says it's actual time travel but I still like the idea it's a conceptual embodiment of the past, but considering the wackiness of the setting those two things are not mutually exclusive.

[smoky solstice]

is this how you lore vets have always felt since the beginning? I'm reasonably new to the game so I gotta ask

[north ferry]

Yeah I mean this is Warframe and a lore channel, over reading and analyzing not actual patterns is like a requirement.

[lament stirrup]

The first piece of information we got on Hunhow came from a Sentinel cosmetic. It's absolutely always been like this

[north ferry]

Lots of hints, sparse substance unless you've drunk the coolaid XD

Or taken the drugs to see sounds.

[brittle siren]

True
Imagine he fuse with Sentient too

[north ferry]

He's already done a bunch of amalgam stuff.

I will say, the eye symbol crops up everywhere with Entrati stuff and Wally distinctly has no eyes.

[brittle siren]

It time travel, the Coda Liches exist in the current time

[smoky solstice]

nah I'm not on the dsiege thing anymore, since I think Rebecca in the Tokyo Game Show interview specifically describing 1999 as something other than Duviri pretty much confirms the writers' room isn't pulling anything sneaky in that regard. Like if her messaging was just "we're going back in time", I could see it being metaphorical and simplifying for the general audience, but that comparison just seals it for me I think

But aside from 1999 being CE, there's still the possibility of something more sinister brewing and Wally still being there in the background, no longer in 1999 actively doing anything there but still watching... waiting... because things potentially aren't what they seem

well I guess that means I'm still sorta on the dsiege thing but not on the CE thing

[old dome]

speaking of finger prints,, why is there a gigantic finger on the zariman??

[smoky solstice]

like conceptual embodiment wouldn't be out of the picture for me if it weren't for that interview because genuinely it does make so much sense otherwise but yeah, I just don't think Reb would be saying that if there were plans to pull that massive of a twist

[lament stirrup]

It's a copy of Wally's finger that's used for void jumps.

[smoky solstice]

Wally's finger, it's void tech used by the Orokin, makes sense that it would be on the Zariman

[north ferry]

Reliquaries are copies of the original 'finger' Albretch severed. It's used for void travel, which is why the Railjack has them.

[smoky solstice]

like it doesn't serve any practical purpose anymore probably since the Zariman is in the void, but it was still used and that's probably why it's still there

[lament stirrup]

Strictly speaking, Wally does have eyes. Just not on his face.

[smoky solstice]

what other stuff aside from 1999? not sure if I've seen it in the sanctum that much

but the eye could also be symbolic

[north ferry]

Wally is doing what Wally does. I don't think he needs some grand conspiracy yo work towards his goals.

[lament stirrup]

That's not a metaphor. There are disembodied eyes floating around Albrechts lab and embedded in its body/the walls in the Sanctum

[smoky solstice]

oh well that seals the deal yeah, was just putting it out there that it could also by symbollic for wally just watching us

us meaning potentially both the drifter and the player

the player focus from wally has really sent me though thinking about it more

I can't handle this attention

[north ferry]

The vitruim/assassinate quest has an eye device, which is Entrai tech. None of the murmur have eyes or faces. At the end of New War Wally's wall has its eyes covered. Wally's people form have empty black pits in cutscenes and in descriptions like in Duviri.

[smoky solstice]

what about 60 eyes

[lament stirrup]

The orbs you collect during the Murmur assassination mission are explicitly the Indifference's eyes.

[smoky solstice]

that's a lot of eyes

[north ferry]

Are they?

[smoky solstice]

in fact damn that makes me lean even further into the Wally camp

[brittle siren]

Also i don't think the pink eyes is his eye

[north ferry]

Whatever, I give up.

[smoky solstice]

well I'm not fully sure about the explicit part but why would Entrati-related eyes make the fragmented one stronger

also, damn, why would Entrati related eyes make the TANK stronger too

[lament stirrup]

Technically they don't make it stronger, they just allow the Tenno to percieve and interact with its strongest form. Which is an entirely semantic difference.

[smoky solstice]

I mean it's technically explained as us hacking into the terminals and releasing more "reinforcements" as it were but when we're hacking, I mean the copious amounts of eyes

[smoky solstice]

well I wouldn't call it semantic to be fair to your point, since there is a difference between the eyes making it stronger and the eyes simply allowing us to interact with its stronger self. Not gameplay-wise but it does kinda reduce the evidence for my theory, since then it can definitely be Entrati-related, since there could be utility to interacting with the strongest form

from Entrati's perspective I mean

[brittle siren]

Wait unrelated but does Gruzzling drop Melee Duplicate and Melee Cressendo?

[lament stirrup]

Gruzzlings only drop common melee arcanes.

[brittle siren]

Ty

[smoky solstice]

oh and it's definitely not just reinforcements by the way, Arthur can say what he wants but extra reinforcements don't suddenly make the tank reduce my defences to nothing in one shot and nullify me to the point where I cry because I accidentally touched the green pool

[smoky solstice]

yeah, gotta grind Netracells/(Elite) Deep Archimedea for those unfortunately

[brittle siren]

And Loid hellish gacha

[smoky solstice]

true but I'd rather invest in Eidolon arcanes there

until my Aegis and Energize are done at least

[sly pagoda]

Gruzzlings for some reason remind me of the the thiefbot from descent 2

[brittle siren]

There is too much Eidolon Arcane that's it difficult to get the rare one

[north ferry]

Lol, turns out there was a rank up cutscenes for the Cavia that I never got shown, this damn game...

[smoky solstice]

yep but I really don't like doing tridolons lol

I'd rather wait however many years it takes

[brittle siren]

I just literally read the same comment in the wiki

[smoky solstice]

only gotten 2 Aegises so far so it will take a while

[north ferry]

Lol

Good old descent

[smoky solstice]

honestly that's the main thing I really care about, there are a million ways to energy sustain, only one way to shield tank though

[brittle siren]

Tbh I will wait another operation and grind energize from that, so I can sell it after the price go up again

[smoky solstice]

which I only found out after the Jade thing was over

would've definitely focused more on collecting Aegis otherwise

anyway, I will continue wallowing in my Warframe main story quest withdrawal for now

for another like 6 months at least? honestly not sure what the timeline is gonna look like there

[north ferry]

It's gonna be a bunch of hype, a nice dose of disappointment and a classic bunch of grind

Hopefully we'll probably get a timeline update during the Dev stream with Coda release and some sort of future plans.

[smoky solstice]

disappointment? honestly 1999 surpassed all my expectations since I was really hedging in terms of the quest in case it turned out to be okay or peeve me in some ways like the New War

[smoky solstice]

yeah, definitely hoping that's the case

[hushed parcel]

wait so

Teshin just never tells you who you are before Second Dream?

[smoky solstice]

no one does

[hushed parcel]

well duh

Teshin is closer than the no ones though

[smoky solstice]

wait, does he know actually before the second dream? actually he must because in the war within he's the one revealing our past

oh wait, nevermind, I mixed up the Natah quest in my head a little

idk, I guess he just doesn't think he has a reason to? I mean the Lotus doesn't do it

[north ferry]

I mean the question is, does he know then, or is he made aware when the Queens rope him into to service.

It could also be a case of lines added after the quest playing before the quest.

[smoky solstice]

I feel like pre-Second Dream, there are some segments which don't make the most sense just because the writers at the time didn't have the twist in mind. Not sure if this is one of them because honestly I don't remember a lot of pre-Second Dream stuff

including our interactions with Teshin then

[brittle siren]

Dax definitely know that Tenno is controlling the Warframe

So yes, Teshin knows

The woman that selling Prime to use is the one guarding the reservoir in Erra vs Lotus scene

[feral cape]

How about you try and convince someone there actually a child from a thousand years ago who's asleep on the moon

Mind you the moon doesn't exist at this point

Its a myth a

[smoky solstice]

I mean yeah, that would be a good reason if there wasn't a good reason to tell us

[north ferry]

Which interaction indicates Teshin knows? I wouldn't be surprised if he does
Stalker isn't even aware until Second Dream

[smoky solstice]

is there a good reason to tell us pre-Second Dream? (or for Teshin, pre-War Within?)

[smoky solstice]

well I think Ranoru is on the money here - Teshin is a Dax and there's no way the Dax don't know that Warframes are controlled by operators separate from them

[north ferry]

I mean there are a half dozen reason you can make up. Teshin isn't exactly a talkative chap, and has the whole wise (annoying) vibe going on.

[smoky solstice]

any Dax soldier

[north ferry]

What do you mean, any Dax?

[smoky solstice]

my point is, the Dax knew for sure, Teshin is a Dax, it only makes sense that he would know, so there would basically just not have to be a good reason to tell us, since I don't think he wasn't aware of this fact

[north ferry]

Dax are footsoldiers, elite footsoldiers for sure and can go all the way from common mooks up to individuals like Varzia and Teshin. I doubt it's common knowledge.

[smoky solstice]

and I mean yeah, he's not super talkative, I don't think there's some important thing that happens pre-Second Dream where he just has to tell you, so I do think I agree with the logic of why would he do that

[smoky solstice]

but they fought alongside the Tenno, wouldn't they have to kinda know what these things fighting alongside them are?

[glacial bough]

They would know they were the Tenno using Warframes

They wouldn't have to know about the Operator

[smoky solstice]

well sure but if you just meet a warframe in the wild moving around, you would probably know it's being operated by someone remotely

[glacial bough]

Maybe, Maybe not

[smoky solstice]

and probably the existence of the Reservoir, although I'm not sure if he would necessarily know the location of the Reservoir

[glacial bough]

There's no reason the Dax would need to know more than what everyone else thinks, a Tenno using a Warframe

[smoky solstice]

sure, but that's exactly what's being discussed, whether he knew there was someone behind the Warframe and that it wasn't literally just a thing by itself. I'm sure he didn't know us personally

[glacial bough]

Sure, he definitely knew the Tenno and Warframe were separate things

[smoky solstice]

and based on the War Within, since I don't see a reason why the Queens would go into this, it seems like he also knew what led the Tenno to become these operators of Warframes, aka details of the Void Jump incident (if not everything about it), and the fact that these operators have void powers.

[old dome]

cryptic is more like it. man speaks in puzzles & poetry.

[smoky solstice]

idk, either way, he definitely could've been like "oh by the way you're like a human separate from this warframe" at any point pre Second Dream, but he had no reason to iirc, and also how would he know that we don't know? like is it shown anywhere that he knows that we're not aware of the fact that we're controlling Warframes remotely rather than being the Warframes?

again, fuzzy on details pre-Second Dream

[old dome]

not... entirely, bc first gen/pre-tenno frames do exist in the wilds. kinda. if they werent put in cryosleep.

like dagath is still roaming around, tenno-less. so does stalker.

[smoky solstice]

maybe but aren't there quirks at that point?

I mean the Stalker he'd probably know is like a separate thing altogether

but in terms of Dagath or someone else, there has to be a difference between a Tenno-controlled frame and just the actual original warframe

[hushed parcel]

this is the reason that made me ask

[glacial bough]

Dagath almost definitely is not, that would part of why we have her blueprint

[smoky solstice]

oh well this seems to 100% imply that he knows, where is this from again?

[old dome]

tbh i dont think we know what teshin does in fact know or not when it comes to the frames... man doesnt speak a lot & when he does its all in puzzles and poetry.

[smoky solstice]

oh wait, it's post Second Dream right

[hushed parcel]

he talks abot not keeping secrets
but had a pretty big secrect kept

thats from Natah

[old dome]

oh she died...?? man.jpg

[glacial bough]

There's nothing to indicate the original is still around to be specific.

[old dome]

...sorry, remind me again which secret it was???

[north ferry]

I don't think any original is around. Except like, Umbra and Kullurevo, maybe Chroma. Even Umbra wasn't the og exclaibur either.

[smoky solstice]

Oh yeah that was my instrinct. Well I wouldn't really say that he was the one keeping the secret since it's not like he's not saying it to protect us or something, it's not really his obligation to say it at the end of the day and the situation was probably just never there for him to say anything about it. This is in stark contrast to the Lotus who, well, was probably the one who should've said something from the start.

[smoky solstice]

the fact that we're a human being controlling warframes and not the warframes themselves

basically the Second Dream twist

[north ferry]

Or indeed, just children. Because the warframes being controlled robots isn't a stretch of an assumption to make, an answer hidden in the empty space.

[smoky solstice]

and it could also be that maybe it's not his secret to reveal at the end of the day, like not his business

not gonna keep it from you but also not going to go out of his way to interfere and make you hear him out about this whole thing with what the Tenno actually are

[smoky solstice]

yeah but before the Second Dream, it could also be that each Warframe you play is just a different dude you're taking out on missions and the Tenno are like all the Warframes

[feral cape]

Its really hard to convince someone there a child from a thousand years ago who's in a cryopod on lua

When nobody lives that long and lua doesn't exist

Unless you bring them both a child and lua

[smoky solstice]

I mean I don't think this argument works as much, since he could've said it and it's like if you don't believe him, fine, but he still put it out there. Like I agree with you that I don't think there's necessarily a conflict between "I'm not gonna keep secrets from you" and him not revealing the Second Dream twist earlier, but I think it makes sense for different reasons

[feral cape]

He wants us to trust him right

So telling us something that is incredibly absurd doesn't build trust and makes us think he's a smidgen crazy

[smoky solstice]

well he doesn't have to do it immediately

but honestly I don't remember how much we interact with him pre-Second Dream

so I don't remember if enough of a rapport was built up

[strange plinth]

not much iirc
he's there in relays but the only "mandatory" meeting is during natah i think?
n even then he just shows up, calls lotus a liar, and leaves

[smoky solstice]

because at the end of the day, if it's not much, he could also just not really care to, like why would he go out of his way to do that, especially when he's not the one who's like a parent figure to you

which kinda also goes back to the "not really his business" argument

[feral cape]

Like imagine some guy comes up to you and tries to convince you you're actually a mystical being from 300 years ago sealed on a planet that's in another dimension

You would never believe a thing that guy ever says

[north ferry]

Something I think DE does is create stuff in the empty spaces. For the most part I don't think anyone really cared too much about the specifics of who or what the Tenno is or are. It isn't actually a big mystery that needs an answer, unless you wanted to know.

[smoky solstice]

yeah, exactly, I mean if he played the role of sort of this wise mentor earlier in the story, I think it makes sense then to call him out for being quiet on this, but if the interactions were very limited, then yeah, it's not like you're close or anything

why would he go out of his way

[north ferry]

When he first showed up I was 'who is this clown, why do I care what he has to say'

[smoky solstice]

I mean it would be another thing entirely if he was being dishonest about it earlier and obfuscating the truth in some way, but from what I understand this is about him just not telling us

[north ferry]

It makes sense if you knew he ran the Conclave before hand though.

[smoky solstice]

yeah, it seems like at first they just went with a sci-fi setting with sorta basic quest experiences, either due to resources or different focuses or both, and it seems like that's what the playerbase expected since at first it was all about the gameplay. Then eventually DE were like "hey let's make the story like cinematic and really cool" and decided to ship the Second Dream.

although even the Second Dream retains some of the early Warframe quest rough edges imo

in particular with something which I think DE has struggled in some regard with even modern quests, like Angels of Zariman or Whipsers in the Walls, which is incorporation of gameplay mechanics you'll do outside of the quest into the story quest

honestly one of my favorite things about the Hex was that it was done super fluidly where it didn't feel like we were just playing through a tutorial of a new gamemode or something in the middle of the narrative, but I've veered off into an irrelevant rant at this point lol

[strange plinth]

even though they're basically the same sequence, i feel like the whispers "getting everything back into working order" run-through of the mission types was a little better than angels'
not sure if its just the albrecht lab vs zariman environment or if there's actually something about the quest that makes me feel like that
but also yeah The Hex did that a lot better
the (first half of the) assassination mission is literally right there in the quest and it doesn't feel like a sequence break
you get a modified legacyte capture during the eleanor sequence, and arguably the other part of it (defending Kalymos while she tracks the legacyte) during the lettie bit (defending Eleanor as she.. walks through the tile).

[visual ermine]

they should also figure out a way to include more Yakuza-style car chase minigames in missions. It fits the modern pace of the game, lol

[smoky solstice]

Yeah, exactly, I just felt like with Angels it was like the whole quest is moreso to introduce the syndicate and that's it. With Whispers there's a lot more happening but again, the same pitfall, which still feels like shoehorning the gameplay mechanics, that you'll learn later anyway since it's not like the NPCs just leave you on your own to figure things out when you jump in.

Whereas with the Hex, as you said there's the first half of the tank, which just felt like a fairly cool and natural intro boss fight, the exterminate, which I mean doesn't interfere with the narrative objective at all so it's never really a problem, the hell-scrubber survival, felt the closest to being shoehorned in but the dialogue throughout kept it interesting for me and this is the first time they put a twist on survival so that part felt cool too.

And then the best part, DE realised that shoehorning Legacyte Harvest would probably just not work at all and only sorta introduced it in a roundabout way that doesn't interfere with the narrative.

It just all felt fairly natural to me and it seems like the previous quests may have just been growing pains of Rebb taking over and figuring these things out, since prior to this, the main story quests were separate from any Syndicate quests, so they didn't have to deal with this.

[smoky solstice]

Lmao yeah, loved that part. I mean may be harder outside of the context of 1999, since it's a lot more similar to our world so it's easier to put stuff like this in and for it to not feel out of place.

But either way, the one thing so far with the post-Rebb quests that I haven't been peeved about is the bits you don't expect that seemingly come out of nowhere that are just really fun and cool, this being one example of that, so I'm sure they'll think of more stuff like this lol

[strange plinth]

yeah
they mixed the gameplay experience with the story excellently for this one
n you said it well, standard legacyte harvest would've been a huge break in the quest's flow, yet the one we got works perfectly

[smoky solstice]

Yeah, I just loved the quest throughout and now it seems like DE understand how to introduce gameplay mechanics without getting in the way of the story. I mean they could turn around and make the same mistakes for whatever the next main story + syndicate intro quest is but it seems like they got there and I'm optimistic. Plus, I'm not sure if the next main story quest will even have a syndicate. That's been the trend so far but it feels like we're kinda circling on the big crescendo of all of this setup, so who knows.

[calm osprey]

Did they ever explain how lotus ended up in the operator chair after falling into the void and how drifter got there too

[glacial bough]

Drifter saved her

[calm osprey]

Is that just implied

[glacial bough]

Beyond Operator saying, it's the only possible option

[strange plinth]

the hand fell into the void and ended up in duviri, unknown where the rest of the body went
drifter got her hand in duviri, brought it with them when they went to the origin system
regenerated lotus from the hand
drifter ending up in the origin system is part of the paradox
drifter can't get out w/o operator's help, operator can't help w/o drifter already being out

[brittle siren]

so Höllvania is prob the place that most early Orokin originated from

since the concept of Sol and Lua is from here I think

[glacial bough]

Sol and Lua are just the common world religion

Though yes, I believe Eleanor has a KIM chat where she talks about orokin-esqe rich citizens in Hollvania

[tall echo]

Based on viktor's behavior I'll theorize that the scaldra loyalists they're making space for with their purges eventually result in the orokin

[strange plinth]

i think i'd be more surprised if the orokin didn't come from Höllvania or somewhere near it
even if its like
thousand year gap or whatever

[stiff fable]

They never explained how the Drifter returned to the Operator's lander and Orbiter, no

[calm osprey]

Does anyone know when the events of Duviri took place

[restive river]

Judging by the Drifter getting stabbed it happens between new war act 1 and act 2 (the transition from operator to drifter)

I think technically it can happen before then and after? Cause it’s in the void and. Paradoxes ig
But going off of the Paracesis stab it aligns with after the Operator gets put into their personal timeloop prison, which we also see the Operator in Duviri helping Drifter so that Drifter can eventually escape so they can help the Operator

[graceful sand]

Where does kuva come from?

[glacial bough]

Unknown

Just some facet of it is related to the Void

[restive river]

It predates void tech, no?
Since the void was discovered prior but was largely seen as nothing to Albrecht stepped in, correct?

[feral cape]

Correct

However it is still void derived

[graceful sand]

https://tenor.com/view/i-love-you-summon-thank-you-alyxis-final-gif-11676553145042511955

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/delete-erase-not-worth-forget-it-clean-slate-gif-8510937

[glacial bough]

Presumably. But we know it has a "void-derived property"

[brittle siren]

it not, there are 2 known instance that it was mention with void, is Unum that can use some void power have a special "kuva" blood in it, and a Executor that try to use the void in Transference

ah Tuvul

[lean garden]

You uh, wanna read the zariman quiz tablets

Its explicitly stated that kuva is a fluid with void-derived capabilities

[brittle siren]

huh

the more you know

[south trout]

Ahahah

Bau to the rescue

[brittle siren]

so Kuva is after Albrecht open void gate?

[lean garden]

Not sure actually

[plush phoenix]

iirc after albrecht opened the void gate he specifically swore off ever using continuity for himself again which would imply that kuva predates it

[lean garden]

However, those recordings are presented as a telling of after the fact, so its possible that kuva could have been developed afterwards and then Albrecht used it, and eventually could not bear to use it anymore

[plush phoenix]

i may be wrong but i was under the impression that it was specifically something he had done previously and stopped because he was afraid that the indifference in him would find a way out somehow if he used continuity again

[visual ermine]

Yeah, but the void was known and experiments bring done long before albrecht broke his bell

[lean garden]

he was afraid that the indifference in him would find a way out somehow if he used continuity again
not so much this, but rather that he was afraid that he himself wasnt him

and that continuity would only prolong the existence of the creature he had called into this world

[lean garden]

the only clown doing experiments on the void was albrecht at that time

[graceful swan]

Most people saw him experimenting as worthless until he took fingers

[visual ermine]

His experiments with regards to space travel, yes. I don’t know that it’s mentioned exactly when the void itself is made aware of or how long such experiments are going on before others lost interest.

Looking back over the albrecht entry, little hard for me to judge exactly because of the poetical sense. But Xata feels to me like it’s making a statement that their practice of continuity starts before and inspires their further travel ambitions

Though I don’t suppose that necessarily answers if they knew about the void before somehow having access to it?

[spice spade]

I'm pretty sure the next big quest for Warframe is gonna be using nuclear power and fixing the Zariman Ten Zero ship in order for us to go to Tau.

considering Albrecht went to 1999 for a "rare" spark of energy, which was the nuclear reactor going critical.

and Archemedian Yonta said, if given a second chance, she could make the jump to Tau.

not sure what's at Tau that's so valuable that it could somehow cripple the Indifference and fight back against it.

hell even Balas in the New War was so ready to eat the sun and make the jump to Tau.

[visual ermine]

Maybe a bit of place setting at least, if they’ve changed their scope since the last big AMA. Feel theres probably going to be some buffer there, especially since DE kind of lets loose ends linger quite a while for gameplay reasons

[past halo]

Okay so what are the experimental arc-relays used for, exactly? Their description sure isn't helping much

[lean garden]

Fixing the zariman would require us to patch up that big ahh hole the zariman is plugging up, it would also remove the entirety of a tileset which is unlike to happen

but you know what DE could do? Finish up the narmer threads, since Pazuul is gathering all that cryotic up

yknow what structure pazuul could be attempting to repair?

The extra solar rail to Tau

[spice spade]

not really, the hole to Duviri could just stay open.
Oh, that makes sense. Could somehow break Pazuul of the brainwashing, and use that rare spark of energy from 1999 to power it.

and use Cryotic as coolant for the reactor.

[lean garden]

not really, the hole to Duviri could just stay open.
No "not really" yonta already told us what would happen if we remove the zariman from the hole

void storms all over the system the likes we aint seen

[spice spade]

I didn't know that, but with Yonta saying if she was giving a second chance, the Ten Zero could make the jump to Tau

could've been a red herring

[lean garden]

and use that rare spark of energy from 1999 to power it.
No need for that, the rail was already functional during the Orokin Era

[spice spade]

Okay, but why would Albrecht go to 1999 in the first place for the "rare" spark needed.

[lean garden]

Not for the Extra-solar rail thats for sure

[spice spade]

so the extra-solar rail could honestly be a red herring too, or forgotten.

[lean garden]

plus Albrecht never really says the spark is from the nuclear reactor

he leaves the sentence open for interpretation, to which we all are lead to believe he's talking about the nuke, but in the end the kalymos sequence is only completed when the Drifter utilises their power of connection with the Hex in the true finale

[spice spade]

the 'bomb' is the nuclear reactor going critical

[lean garden]

Of which the sequence is only complete when we prevent it from doing such

[spice spade]

he still went to 1999 for a reason

[lean garden]

sure

[spice spade]

why would he go to 1999, if he knew of the solar rail.

[lean garden]

For albrecht, and we eventually complete his kalymos sequence

[lean garden]

because the sequence isnt about the solar rail

its about us

[spice spade]

what is the purpose of the sequence?

Is it just for us to learn about love and compassion to prepare us to fight the Indifference?

...actually yeah that seems about right tbh.

[lean garden]

uhuh

But also its like a very major exercise in like

space magic

you literally use your connection to sentient beings to communicate with their minds!!

[spice spade]

The use of Transference for the Finale quest gave the Hex the strength and power of confidence to change their fate.

Transference from the Operator/Drifter was used to "mend a broken thing, and take away it's pain."

we probably might use Transference on Pazuul to break the brainwashing

change him from "The Ram", and become Erra once more.

also uh, when does Pazuul speak about this hidden solar rail to Tau? @lean garden

[lean garden]

I need to check on if he ever actually mentions a rail, BUT he has been caught pants down in guzzling cryotic

[spice spade]

what is Cryotic used for again?

from the wiki it seems it's purpose is a coolant.

I mean, it's definitely used for cooling reactor's of massive ships.

as is the case for sabotage missions regarding Grineer and Corpus ships.

[lean garden]

oh but we know the rail exists, albeit in a destroyed state

the question is if DE will take the repair the rail route to both wrap up narmer and get us to Tau

[spice spade]

don't both rails need to be active?

[lean garden]

the rail on our side is the one that went poof

[spice spade]

it seems they destroyed the solar rail in Tau

[lean garden]

nah, this was on our side

hunhow is his dad, and hunhow is very much over here

[spice spade]

Didn't the sentients just traveled through space and become barren?

they could no longer reproduce.

[strange turtle]

That comes from using the Solar Rails

They travelled to Tau normally

But came back using Tau’s Rail

[spice spade]

source?

[lean garden]

Detron Crewman synthesis outlines the plan for the sentients, which involve them taking the long way around

[spice spade]

I want to see where they used Tau's Rail to invade.

[lean garden]

subsequently Ropaloyst, and alot of Lotus's dialogue regarding her being infertile demonstrate that they railed back

[spice spade]

it said the rail would kill them

completely opposite.

that throws an entire wrench that Tau has a built rail.

@lean garden @strange turtle

[lean garden]

nah, they very much had one, this is their assumption that they wouldnt be able to make the jump, which the sentients very much did

[lean garden]

as shown here, pazuul is specifically talking about Hunhow destroying the rail

Hell, mag prime codex shows the rail on the Origin side blasting troops off to die under a foreign star

[spice spade]

Ballas was planing to use Praghasa to make a portal to jump to Tau by eating Sol.
Praghasa could have just destroyed the Tau rail, and then jumped to Sol.

@lean garden

Pazuul could be trying to fix Praghasa, make her function and destroy Sol to make the jump once more.

[lean garden]

give me a hot sec:

1. Praghasa did not destroy the rail, hunhow did

[spice spade]

so, y'know what's similar enough to the Sun?
Nuclear Power

it's also theroized that Hunhow came from Praghasa

Praghasa is the "Mother ship"

[lean garden]

Regardless, hunhow already existed before Natah made it to Origin

[spice spade]

"One singular, massive individual..."

Hunhow most likely came from Praghasa

Hunhow probably also destroyed the Tau rail, and rallied the Sentients and Praghasa to jump through the portal made by Praghasa to invade the Origin system.

Albrecht is most likely gonna make a nuclear reactor so Praghasa can feed off of it, and then make the jump to Tau with the Tenno.

Warframe hasn't specifically said which extra-solar rail was destroyed. Just *one* of them was.

And it would make sense for Hunhow to destroy the Tau rail, and then use Praghasa to jump to Sol.

[lean garden]

counterpoint: they took the rail here and destroyed it so as to not require praghasa consuming resources in Tau

[spice spade]

Counterpoint: If the rail in Sol was broken, why wouldn't Ballas just recreate it to go to Tau instead of eating Sol to go to Tau?

[lean garden]

Because the point was to destroy Origin also

like that was part of his big villain speech

[brittle siren]

So Helminth is either really good at gaming, or he just hacking the game

(Base on Amir words)

[spice spade]

"I can't have the Origin System, so no one can." I guess.
But Praghasa is literally there, it can make the jump to Tau.
Pazuul is probably trying to fix Praghasa to make the jump back.

[lean garden]

Strategy wise it would also make more sense to destroy the Origin side rail during the war, because it would be extremely stupid to cut off the only way to get reinforcements from the side you cant control

[strange turtle]

Also the Sentients wouldn’t destroy the star of the system they’re defending just to send people over

[spice spade]

Praghasa probably didn't need to eat the star to travel to Sol.

[brittle siren]

The thing is, if she can, Hunhow can too

[lean garden]

No?

[brittle siren]

I mean if the conditions is met

[spice spade]

p sure Hunhow can't make a portal to Tau.

he's not as big or strong as Praghasa

[lean garden]

Hunhow and Praghasa are like both visually and descriptively very different kinds of Sentients

[spice spade]

okay but if they destroyed the rail during the war, those reinforcements are literally stranded back at Tau.
Praghasa could send the entire Sentient armada and herself to Sol by making that massive Portal.
She incurred heavy damages during the War, and were weakened by the jump anyways.

[brittle siren]

How big both of them in comparison btw

[spice spade]

Praghasa could eat THE SUN

pretty sure she is way bigger than Hunhow

[lean garden]

targetting the rail on the Origin side provides these strategic benefits:
You can control exactly when on the ground side of the war to prevent access to tau,
You can delay access to Tau, and force enemy reprioritisation away from attacking tau

targetting the rail on the Tau side does this:
remove access from Origin side

[lean garden]

okay but if they destroyed the rail during the war, those reinforcements are literally stranded back at Tau.
But the origin side sentients would have control over when this would happen, which is starkly different if they blew up the tau side, which removes control entirely

[spice spade]

Do you know if it was the Sol or Tau rail?

with 100% certainity?

[brittle siren]

Slightly bigger than Hunhow, idk how to compare size tbh

[spice spade]

Hunhow is very small

[lean garden]

I'm currently looking into where the extra-solar rail should be, which I suspect might be outer terminus

[lean garden]

100% of course not, but if we're trying to compare what "makes sense" I am far more confident in a origin side rail destruction

[brittle siren]

This is Hunhow

[spice spade]

Hunhow was buried deep in Uranus's ocean

[brittle siren]

Do you even know how big is a planet

[spice spade]

Uranus is tiny compared to, y'know, the sun

The Sun is massive

[brittle siren]

What the actual f-? You saying his wife is as big as the sun...?

[digital grail]

YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE IS MASSIVE

LOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW

[spice spade]

yea, p sure

[strange turtle]

We saw her in New War, she’s not even close

[lean garden]

as big as the sun? naw, even the TNW sequence we see dont bring her that close

[spice spade]

okay not as big

[spice spade]

but if she can convert the entire sun to energy

[lean garden]

she dont have to be as big a sun for that

she just gotta eat good

[brittle siren]

Ever heard a black hole can suck the star?

[spice spade]

💀 Blackholes are super massive my guy

[brittle siren]

???????!

A black hole with the mass of our sun is far smaller in size

[lean garden]

super massive black holes exist yes, but like sometimes they dont have to be like that big

[spice spade]

at a certain weight, blackholes just fizzle

[brittle siren]

And it still able to suck the sun

[spice spade]

if a blackhole had the weight of earth, it would just fizzle

[brittle siren]

And it still able- do you even listening