lore-discussion

[hollow flare]

umbra was chinese prime pretty sure

[raw stone]

Stalker wears the Umbra armor pieces. Some of them, on his body.

When did the Chinese port drop then?

[digital grail]

Yeah and they could've kept em

[raw stone]

I gotta go. Work and all.

[humble sierra]

I think it's called a lointail

[digital grail]

Wtf is stalker hiding behind it

[graceful swan]

That’s such a weird name

[digital grail]

Is he hiding a second war

[graceful swan]

It’s where he hides his Despair

[digital grail]

His great despair

[graceful swan]

His Despair and Great Despair

[digital grail]

When will stalker get a prime he's been out a long time

[graceful swan]

Still wanna know what’s so great about Despair

[raw stone]

That's the secondary right?

[graceful swan]

Let DE cook

[digital grail]

Ye

[raw stone]

Dread is the primary... and hate the melee.

[graceful swan]

And War was the melee

[digital grail]

We better get stalker prime b4 gta 6

[raw stone]

Well... hmn. You feel the towering dread ring out in your leg, your feel the vengeful hate in your stomach, and the ominous despair in your head. Idk. It's all poetic.

[digital grail]

War is coming

[raw stone]

Stalker's feelings of his twisted life ringing out in your body as he hunts you. Well... before you absolutely trash him regularly.

But all the names of his weapons are meant to be poetic

[graceful swan]

Who’s gonna tell Stalker he needs therapy?

[raw stone]

Probably Drifter

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-the-second-dream-shadow-stalker-gif-14588821

[raw stone]

Okay both Operator and Drifter are clearly meant to commune and soothe with Warframes, Protoframes included

[digital grail]

Stalker walking to therapy

[graceful swan]

Stalker stabbing Protofrrame reaction when?

[digital grail]

Oh god how would stalker act seeing a proto frame

[graceful swan]

Mind would break again

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-should-been-gif-23901254

How he'd act

Idk honestly

[graceful swan]

My eyes are starting to sting sure I’ve had 0 sleep but that’s not a symptom of that right?

[digital grail]

It is sleep NOW

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/fight-knock-out-dance-swing-gif-16707377

[graceful swan]

The brain shouldn’t be real

[pastel ether]

Lore wise how many tenno are there?

[digital grail]

Alot (idfk)

[graceful swan]

Not enough

[nocturne mountain]

The duality of the player.

[digital grail]

https://tenor.com/view/not-enough-batman-not-good-ben-affleck-gif-9286385

[graceful swan]

I think I found my Eternalism twin

[digital grail]

GASP

[chilly iron]

Oh poop, I missed the Stalker/Umbra clothing discussion
It's a tabard

[digital grail]

Thx for the info Mr/ms/other year late

[chilly iron]

XD I gots to sleep some time!

[gloomy anchor]

It's also how the game presents it. We are told there are other tenno in lore and such but at the same time we are all the main character in the story

Eternalism and what not

And we don't interact with any other tenno in the story besides what, Rell?

[peak ether]

The player base is considered as the Tenno Lore wise

[pastel ether]

How big is the zaramin

[stiff fable]

Massive. It had millions of colonists onboard.

[proper barn]

That's not what eternalism means.

[proper barn]

Massive planet sized even.

[stiff fable]

Deffo not planet sized

Size of Mt Everest maybe

[proper barn]

They where trying to colonize a whole solar system.

[stiff fable]

Not all at once

[gloomy anchor]

I was under the impression that it meant there was a permutation of every possibility including one where each of us is the hero of our timeline

[proper barn]

Yeah no people use it wrong.

They used it wrong since new war released.

Like New War came out and then people pre-complained about DE using "eterlism" as a reason to be able to do anything and DE literally hasn't done that.

Before like 1999 or like Baro or whatever.

It literally was just to explain the Drifter and Rev Prime.

That's it.

Even then we can talk about do like the different possibilities currently exist or does it just mean all possibilities are possible? Idk man.

[proper barn]

Yeah no this isn't what it means. This is just MMO-idous and is fine.

[proper barn]

Also Captian I sent my messages about rhe Zariman and discord wasn't loading so I didn't see your responses. Which is funny cuz it looks like I was responding to you. But yeah I agree to both.

[pastel ether]

How long after the tenno came from the zaramin was margulies executed?

[stiff fable]

Couple years, maybe a few decades

Things took longer in the Orokin era

[spice spade]

Ok so I've found this thing that it's like some kind of puzzle from 2000 years ago, it's still not solved but if you played Warframe enought you may know why I am sharing it

[normal mountain]

Tenet Opera when

[feral cape]

Well it says tenet

[humble sierra]

The Christopher Nolan movie, Tenet, used all these words

[restive river]

It says sator on every side and tenet in a cross

Turn down bloom
Also this is lore chat

[merry axle]

I am curious at this point how many warframe still retain their sentience ? I only know about umbra and stalker

[feral cape]

Just umbra and stalker

Og kullevero and dante

[stiff fable]

Jade did, heck she pretended she had an operator during the Old War

Past that is a bit harder to tell for sure, most Warframe stories come from after they had Operators

[proper barn]

Well she had a operator she just helped them instead and went on her own.

[lament stirrup]

Given that the Stalker is on Lua now, it would be incredibly interesting if he stumbled onto Jade's operator while raising Sirius/Orion

[feral cape]

Do we know he's on lua?

[lament stirrup]

Thats where he ran when the quest ended and Hunhow says Stalker left his lair, so I assume he has a new base there.

[proper barn]

You can see him on earth

So idk.

[lament stirrup]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

He teleports in and out so...

Would be incredibly funny if he set up like 5 miles from the drifters place though

[woven coyote]

given the moonquakes feels like a horrible place to raise a child lol

[lament stirrup]

I can't imagine an infested hole at the bottom of the ocean was much better, but yeah.

[proper barn]

It wasn't infested

[lament stirrup]

I definitly remember the Stalker sleeping above infested barnacles on his chandelier.

[stiff fable]

Nah that was Hunhow stuff

[smoky solstice]

wait, I might be dumb but everyone else here noticed that the Cavia in the whispers quest prior to ig full sentience are speaking in the void language thing, right?

I only ask because I now wonder if there can be a solid translation for the duviri tablet

I mean tagfer says "mara lohk", that can mean a few things within context, I wonder if one were to dive deep if all of that can be at least loosely translated via the cavia

I need to check tomorrow

[proper barn]

They have full sentience they just can only speak void tongue.

[smoky solstice]

Yeah that's a better explanation, but what do you think about the broad idea of this

Like what if the translation of the tablet was under our nose this entire time

We only focus on the confirmed words but not the implication of the words from the cavia

[lament stirrup]

I don't believe their dialogue pre-gargoyle and the tablet can be used as a rosetta's stone. That being said, it's generally agreed that "Mara Lohk" is the title for the operator.

(The placement of commas when its used implies its a title or name and its always direct at the player character)

[silk atlas]

It's not. DE even made a tongue-in-cheek joke about "what the hell is a Mara Lohk?"

[proper barn]

We have tired to figure out what the Void tongue they use means but it's only bits and pieces.

[smoky solstice]

Oh that makes a lot of sense within context

[silk atlas]

We have nothing else besides context that it refers to the Operator in some way.

[smoky solstice]

Oh I see, yeah makes sense someone else had this idea before I did

[proper barn]

I still think Mara means Demon.

[silk atlas]

The content has been out for... two years now?

[proper barn]

To be fair Seal we do get like some different context years later.

[smoky solstice]

It makes sense in the tablet that it ends with that though, since mara lohk in the tablet is after a comma, at the end of the sentence with a question mark, like it does seem to in some way refer to us

[silk atlas]

We talking Hex? I forgor

[smoky solstice]

And Tagfer says it as if like calling out to us, only other thing that makes sense is that he's yelling like "over here!" or something

[smoky solstice]

Haven't duviri and whispers been out for like a year?

They were back to back updates, I started playing during them, has it really been 2 years?

I know it's 2023 but idk when

[silk atlas]

Duviri is closer to two years, Whisper a year.

[smoky solstice]

Yeah ok

[silk atlas]

A year and some change, rather.

[smoky solstice]

Man I hope we get a translation to that though

It's like such a tease fr

They can't just leave us like this forever

[silk atlas]

They're trolling people who want to figure it out lol

[smoky solstice]

Maybe it will be revealed in another ARG or something? Feels a bit weird to squeeze in a main story quest but maybe that can happen too

[smoky solstice]

They can't leave us hanging like this, it has to be revealed eventually!

[silk atlas]

They sure can, see: Them never explaining why the Warframe moved in TSD.

[lament stirrup]

I imagine we'll learn void tongue during one of the mainline updates during the Void War. Maybe one set directly in the void, if we're lucky.

The Operator used partial transference.

[silk atlas]

At the very least Wally is very important to the story so they may actually bother fleshing it out

[proper barn]

Like Hunhow said " We severed the worlds" in NATAH we didn't know that meant he destroyed the solar rail I'm the origin system till Veilbreaker. Parvos talked about Entrati a year before we got anything about deimos or knew who any entrati where.

[lament stirrup]

We see Ballas and the Drifter use a similar form of transference. It doesn't have an explicit name, but remote controlling a body without entering it is possible.

[proper barn]

This is what I mean. Sometimes we get more context later. Also Ballas talks about Dualism

And only really got any context about what that was or meant in 1999

[smoky solstice]

I mean the question is literally about THE WALL, although this seems a bit fundamental so maybe when this arc of the story comes to the end?

Like it would be a big reveal I think to know precisely what "the wall" is rather than just vaguely

[proper barn]

He is seemingly trapped in the wall

That's what we literally say to Lettie.

We don't know what that means.

I think the Drifter even puts "qoutes" around wall.

[lament stirrup]

Fibbonaci and Loids dialogue seem to suggest "The Wall" is parallel/potential realities (The Strands of Khra)

[proper barn]

But not that's not the same

[smoky solstice]

Wasn't it fairly well explained what Dualism is within the Sacrifice? What more was revealed about it in 1999?

[proper barn]

No? Literally just a name. Dualism in 1999 is a whole religion about Lua and Sol ciz they are both God's and are married/at war

Even komi is the wedding/war between Sol and Lua

[smoky solstice]

Do you just mean the worship of gods? Honestly I'm not sure precisely what Ballas means when he says "the vain faith", since there was no religion practiced in the Orokin empire

[lament stirrup]

The vain faith was the worship of the Orokin

[smoky solstice]

Does he just refer to the worship of the Orokin

Oh lmao, sorry

[proper barn]

The Drifter Literally didn't know what dualism was.

[smoky solstice]

But that's not really faith though, is it? The Orokin are like living beings, it's not really faith being employed since you don't need it

[smoky solstice]

Well it's explained as everything being of two parts which gets the broad idea across is what I mean

[lament stirrup]

It's faith in the sense that it's the state mandated religion.

[proper barn]

Yeah it is when they are effectively immortals position themselves as the true leaders Golden gods.

Like how Royals say they ate related to gods.

"I am a son of thor" you know the drill

[smoky solstice]

I just mean like faith is a weird word to use. In religion, it makes sense, since you can never know if a god exists, you can only have faith. With a body of aristocrats? I mean you know they're there, you're not employing faith since you're not "risking" anything since there's no chance you're wrong

[lament stirrup]

Its what Ballas said even if it doesn't quite fit ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[proper barn]

Royals that lead because they say so.

I feel like that is a vain faith.

[smoky solstice]

I'm just wondering if he was referring to something else, since faith just makes no sense to me in the Orokin Empire, where there were no gods that might exist, just ones that you know exist.

Anyway, I guess it's kinda beside the point, just a bit of a side tangeant

[proper barn]

They where immortal all powerful people.

What else are gods?

[smoky solstice]

I'm not saying they're not gods. What I'm saying is that the reason "faith" plays a role in religion is because you can't prove a god exists, you can only essentially guess, hope, or have faith.
There's no faith in a god you know exists, since you don't need it, you literally just know they're there.

That's why I'm a little caught up with the language used

[feral cape]

Does being a god necessitate that one must have faith you exist

[smoky solstice]

Anyway, I gotta go to sleep personally, thanks for y'all's input on this. I mean my hopes and dreams were destroyed but I was kinda expecting that anyway.
This channel has been so good in terms of refining a lot of aspects of the lore for myself and I love you all.
Good night everyone

[lament stirrup]

Lettie type conversation

[smoky solstice]

I just don't think you can have faith when you know for sure that something exists, since it's unnecessary. The reason it works in religion is that we don't know whether god exists or not. With the Orokin, it just doesn't make sense

[smoky solstice]

It's the separating paragraphs thing, isn't it

[lament stirrup]

More the religious philiosphy.

She;s remarkably spiritual when she isn't talking about how much she hates her job.

[smoky solstice]

Oh, I don't think I ever went too deep on that front with her

Anyway, I really gotta go now, it's already painfully late (well, honestly kind of early, which is so much worse)

[lean garden]

Hard disagree here. This is a very limited application of faith. You absolutely still can have faith in a g/God who you know exists, because you need to have faith that said g/God will pull up for you

Pulling from a single example of just one religion, the Israelites very much knew that God existed because they had direct front row seats to miracles, but they still needed to have faith, because one of their biggest collective skill issues was believing that God would pull through for them

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

[gentle breach]

Hey i heard a griner Marine is equivalence to a spacemarine. anyone know somthing about it ?And I know you can't compare it but overall?

[proper barn]

That is not true at all. Compare a space marine to a tenno with a warframe.

Also they beat the space marine I'm sorry 40k bros.

[proper barn]

A grinner marine would go against a imperial guardsmen. Idk who would win that. It depends on what group of guardsmen or grinner Probably pretty equal.

[stiff fable]

Grineer armor is something like 30x stronger than astartes armor, so yeah the average Grineer lancer could tear through a spacemarine

And his next 15 friends

The real difference between 40K and Warframe is that the warp is much safer than the Void

[gentle breach]

Not the Demon-infested Warp?

[lean garden]

hang on, having better armour doesnt mean having suitable weapons tho

but also like where are the measurements for "30x stronger"

[stiff fable]

Grineer weapons are very good at punching through Grineer armor

So it's safe to say their weapons tech is up there

[lean garden]

like we hardly have info on grineer armour resilience

[stiff fable]

And this is the modern Grineer, we're not talking Orokin era tech

which is what the Warframes are

[lean garden]

^

[stiff fable]

People were running the numbers on things the devs had said

[lean garden]

That doesnt explain much, what numbers, what things?

[stiff fable]

Kinda like how Doomguy canonically can run 25mph if you look at how fast he clears distances in-game

Posts on the forums/reddit, I literally can't dig them up because there's lots

[gentle breach]

Let's remember A group of griners could easily eliminate a spacemarine

[lean garden]

how can we remember something that we dont actually have data on

[stiff fable]

But over the years DE's offhandedly assigned numbers to things, that if you calculate the actual forces involved, end up with crazy numbers like that

[lean garden]

also like if we're doing math like doom guy, the average astartes outruns the grineer

[gentle breach]

translator XD

[stiff fable]

Like TvTropes says, scifi writers have no sense of scale

[lean garden]

because the grineer run pityfully slow in game

and the average running speed of an astartes is about usain bolt's speed

[proper barn]

The Void is also demon Infested.

Kinda.

[gentle breach]

Ym the Angels?

[proper barn]

No but yes

Okay anyone in the Void can by accident make their own world or realm

Or even "demon"

Like duviri is this

Parvos has his own Wally has his own

Albretch going into the void made Wally probably.

The 40k warp is werid cuz its more actively hostile kinda but the potential of the Void is kinda more.

[proper barn]

I still like my explation of grinner being more like imperial guard and tenno with their warframes being space marines.

[stiff fable]

Tenno are comparable to the primearchs though

[proper barn]

Ehhh

Idk

[raw stone]

Hmnn? Oh we're talking powerscaling?

In that case, Wordgirl is beyond a planetary threat. Take that how you will, but life is funny and not to be taken seriously.

It's just.... silly

[eternal ether]

still pretty entertaining that the new story update is basically just albrecht calling you lonely. and then killing you.

[eternal ether]

a singular warframe could easily wipe a space marine chapter without even trying.
you're comparing a robot wizard powered by an interdimensional anomaly. to a human with extra hearts and 4x the muscle mass in a suit of armor.

the grineer are far more 1:1 with a space marine

given space marines are clones just like grineer anyway

[proper barn]

Hey they also have wizards and big metal coffins. But also this kind of power comparing sucks.

[proper barn]

Also they aren't. They are normal humans that get gene seed and stuff later but they start out as normal people.

[proper barn]

I agree.

[devout verge]

Regarding "the Vain Faith" being a faith:
It's about much more than just the existence of the Orokin. It's also about their place in the world.
"The Orokin can and will do terrible things if you cross them, or just because the mood strikes them" is just reality.

But "The Orokin have the moral right to mistreat and torture you however they want, whenever they want, and if an Orokin wants to inflict pain on you, your duty is to suffer, because they are the Golden Masters and their rightful place is to rule over everything" is more than that: It's a belief that this is how the world is supposed to be. That wanting freedom from the Orokin is a sin.

That is the Vain Faith. Not that Orokin exist, or even that they are powerful, but that they are right, no matter what, and that everyone else should be grateful to even be allowed to serve them.

-# Also, "Space Marines vs. Grineer" is missing the real question:
-# Could Goku beat up Superman, and how much prep time would Batman need to defeat the Man in the Wall?

[tall echo]

Superman is op to the point of being boring, batman would need infinite prep time to defeat wally

Also, based on my quite limited 40k knowledge, space marines would delete grineer

[old dome]

aka: supremacy.

[old dome]

-# 1) no bc theyd just end up being friends. 2) batman will become the new albrecht bc wally is just gonna copy him... & then stalk him throughout the multiverse for giggles.

[woven coyote]

Writing team got ptsd from elden ring calling you maidenless

[old dome]

its funny bc he p much abandoned his family behind w so much unresolved issues... pot, meet kettle.

[restive river]

Popeye.

[lean garden]

The magic of superman is not in his power, but in his heart

-# screw you syndercut superman

[spice spade]

Can an admin from the wiki put this on the trivia section of the Tenet weapons?

[lean garden]

Well for starters theres a clear typo in one of the words, so the source is extremely dubious already

[spice spade]

What is the typo?

[lean garden]

How many "s" are there in possess

So whats your source

[spice spade]

A video in spanish saying the meaning of Tenet in latin

[lean garden]

Wait till you find out teneo has more than 6 meanings that all fit in the same boat

[tall echo]

The tenet weapons are named after the teachings of parvos

[restive river]

^

[spice spade]

I can imagine, but usually the devs are inspired by something when they make a weapon or whatever, in the case of teh Vitus Essence, Vitus means life, for incarnon weapons, it comes from the word "incarnate", so why not mention in the wiki that Tenet means all of this?

The two examples I've used I know them thanks to the wiki

[restive river]

It only makes sense to add the words that would actually relate to how it’s used in-game
I’m pretty sure Tenet is used for it’s definition of relating to principles of religion and faith as the Corpus are a money cult

[spice spade]

There is always the trivia part where it tells you curiousities of the thing you are looking, not neccesarely related to the game

[restive river]

Y’know
You can also just add stuff yourself
If it is relevant it’ll stay

I’ve done it before on mobile easily

[spice spade]

Well I thought I had to be an admin to edit it but nope, so since this proven to be true, it hurts no one I guess

Am happy that I've contributed to the wiki even for a useless fact xd

[restive river]

It’s a wiki
Anyone can edit it

Which is largely why it’s actually not a good source for lore since people can just add theories and misconceptions

[spice spade]

Yeah you are right, I was going to add something like "these words aree related to the corpus philosophy" but I think it is better left like this

[restive river]

Idk if I’d say conserve is part of their philosophy
They’re quite corrupt even by Parvos’ standards

[feral cape]

Entirely depends on the suit

Hellbat wipes tmitw easily

[restive river]

Whats a hellbat

[digital grail]

Bat man armour

[feral cape]

One batman's suits

It drains his life a little but it's an insanely powerful suit

[restive river]

Idk if that’d be Wally

[feral cape]

I believe it's a pre crisis suit so it's not part of the canon anymore

Comics have weird canons to me

[restive river]

Dubiously canon

[feral cape]

Id need to research the dcs cosmology but I'm confident it could

Its a post Flashpoint suit and its more powerful than a post Flashpoint jl and flash was capable of cracking hypertime which is 11 dimensional iirc

[restive river]

I can’t tell if they knew what they were writing or just threw in words to make it seem big and powerful lmao

[feral cape]

Could be both

[restive river]

With comics?
Probably a bit a both

[feral cape]

I don't read comics much the only powerscaling stuff I'm absolutely confident on is warframe destiny and persona

[feral cape]

Also this entirely depends on the chapter

Some space marine chapters actually have magic

[restive river]

Some warframes basically have magic
Thanks the Void

Also the infestation is ridiculously strong

[feral cape]

It is alright strength wise compared to the space viruses I know

[restive river]

I forgot the name but the warhammer hivemind would lose against the infestation just because of it’s resilience and it’s ability to infest pretty much anything

[feral cape]

The nids?

[restive river]

No?

[feral cape]

Tyranids?

[restive river]

Idk 40k beyond a few things

[restive river]

Yes them

It wouldn’t be an immediate steamroll from what I’ve heard
But the infestation would win in time and that’s all that really matters

[feral cape]

I watched that video before

The issue is the nids have insanely hyperactive adaptation

One continuity the nids had to fight guys that like infected the soul or something in response the nids became soulless

[lean garden]

Tyranid adaptation is cracked, in SM2 the prologue has you deploy a bio-weapon, by the first mission which is like a day or so after, the nids already became resilient against the virus

[feral cape]

Granted I think that's cause the space viruses i like don't really have virus as a core part of then rather a supplementary part

[somber adder]

Helminth (a word that means endoparasitic worm) calls warframes “children of the ancestor worm”
The ancestor worm, the Technocyte Coda? The coda worm? Are the Coda the original technocyte strain? Is the Infestation completely derived from a boyband? This would be hilarious

Lephantis (who, based on Duviri lore seems to have been a person from ancient Earth history, maybe Scaldra-related?) quotes Party of Your Lifetime sometimes (though this is likely because his lines were then repurposed for the song, but chronologically he’s quoting it)

[tall echo]

The coda are already an evolved form of techrot, which is the oldest technocyte strain we've seen so far

[tall echo]

When does it quote the song?

[somber adder]

It says “join us” and “embrace us” if I’m remembering correctly

[tall echo]

That's. Extremely vague

If it quoted some specific lyrics it'd be more credible

[somber adder]

Those are specific lyrics from the song tho

("Unburden yourself from this mortal coil, [name]. Join us.")

("Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh.")

("We were countless. Consume us. Be reborn.")

("We embrace you. Why do you defile us?")

The similarity is there imo

[lean garden]

But like, theyre vague enough to not be quotes of the song, and just caca infested say anyway

[somber adder]

Might be Infested on-lyne who wrote the song, no?

[restive river]

Those are def generally about the infested as a whole
That song is basically an infested anthem

[tall echo]

On-lyne isn't infested

[lean garden]

Also like, Drifter states that ancient earth records were destroyed, meaning that only after that the whole 18 rad wars stuff happens

[restive river]

Their Coda clones are

[tall echo]

I was getting to that

[restive river]

And seem to be the ones who actually sing that song as its new since the Hex only got it in the hack iirc?

[restive river]

That specific lephantis was a weapon made for war likely named after lephantis the person.

[tall echo]

The song is new but on-lyne was going to sing it live so

[restive river]

Lotus: "Deep within this millennia-old Orokin-turned-Infested ship lurks a creature created to fight in the Old War. Make your way to its location and dispatch this monster."

[restive river]

Yes but those were the infested clones

At least that def seems to be the idea

[tall echo]

The clones aren't ready for live performance yet

[somber adder]

“We come alive moving under the neon glow” makes me think the clones are only alive when it’s time to perform

[restive river]

Are they not by 1999?

Like at the least them performing on new years would make sense especially if they debut the song that’s practically an infested anthem

[tall echo]

Not like it's important, what I'm saying is is that the clones aren't the ones writing the songs

[somber adder]

I believe both The Great Despair and Party of Your Lifetime are made post-cloning, as the boys show the same sign as Arlo does on the cover art

Either that or the Infestation thinks that hand sign is the key to beguiling masses

[tall echo]

In-universe coincidence

[restive river]

I’m not so sure about that
It’s clear the entertainment industry is resorting to using the techrot so if I had to guess the techrot is in fact writing the songs, especially if the boys aren’t being cooperative

[somber adder]

It’s the same disease, and in the same vector

A charming humanoid avatar, made to fool people

That then reveals its true colors

That uses the same hand sign

Doubt that’s a coincidence

[tall echo]

Except one was made by the infestation to assimilate, the other by people as a product

[somber adder]

They didn’t have control over it, it did break free

[restive river]

Its still the infestation either way

[somber adder]

Clones broke, turned fully infested

[restive river]

And the hand signal is def just the infestation doing what it does

[tall echo]

That's news to me

[restive river]

Same here

[somber adder]

I doubt tentacles are part of the performance

That was definitely not part of the design parameters

[restive river]

The tentacles seem to come later

[tall echo]

A few thousand years later

[somber adder]

Nobody can control the technocyte

[restive river]

Though we will also encounter their infested forms in 1999 ig?

[somber adder]

Yup

[restive river]

Helminth would like a word

[somber adder]

I doubt that can be controlled either

It’s probably waiting for a chance to break free

[restive river]

It’s a domesticated strain

[tall echo]

Helminth is very much controllable

[somber adder]

Not if it evolves not to be, which is what infested do best

[restive river]

It’s literally the only domesticated strain beyond our infested companions

[tall echo]

There's a whole frames based on that

[restive river]

Also the Warframes are literally infested and are literally being controlled

[somber adder]

Because they’re braindead lol

[restive river]

Why didn’t it do that while we napped for a thousand years?

[tall echo]

It has had at least 1000 years to do that

[restive river]

Still infested.

[somber adder]

Pretty sure it was in stasis, no?

[somber adder]

And still braindead

Helminth is sapient

[restive river]

It’s the human part thats braindead.

[tall echo]

You can't make a hivemind braindead

[restive river]

Specifically the conscious is suppressed if I’m not mistaken

[somber adder]

I’m not so sure warframes are connected to the hivemind

[restive river]

They had to suppress the human consciousness to avoid them going feral due to the infestation

[tall echo]

The hivemind regularly talks to the player through the frames

[somber adder]

Techrot motherboards and pustulant cognitive nodules imply hivemind communication requires specific organs, ones I doubt warframes have

[restive river]

Which shows that Helninth totally could go feral
But doesn’t

[somber adder]

When?

[tall echo]

Every time an infested boss talks

[restive river]

Lephantis
Helminth
Any time it ever talks to us ever.

[somber adder]

That’s telepathy or radio communication

It can talk to you in operator form too

[tall echo]

How would the infested have access to radio comms

[restive river]

It wouldn’t be that difficult

[lean garden]

well... ask konzu

[restive river]

That being said that’s not what’s happening.

[somber adder]

Considering their ancestral strain is techrot

I would say just by existing

[limber pulsar]

there are these convenient things called vocal chords that the infested have a lot of

[tall echo]

Their speech is also just gargled nonsense that gets translated in the message screen

[restive river]

Whether it’s telepathy or not it doesn’t really matter, it’s still the infested talking to the infested :p

[somber adder]

Except it specifically can talk to the operator

[restive river]

We rarely if ever hear it ever say actual words

[somber adder]

Who is immune to infestation

[restive river]

I have a feeling that could be due to the Operator and Drifter utilizing the Warframes enough that they can understand it

[somber adder]

Or because they have mind powers

[restive river]

As the radio communication idea doesn’t really work for them

We
Aren’t telepaths…

We do have transference but that’s not whats happening

[tall echo]

Transference isn't a void magic exclusive thing

[somber adder]

Transference allowing telepathy would not be weird at all

[restive river]

I think picking up on how the infestation speaks is more likely

[somber adder]

In fact it’s very likely it could do so

Also, Eleanor is proof that the Infestation is capable of telepathy, no?

[restive river]

Heck we don’t even know if it’s directly tied to the void and void-tech
Just that we got it at the same time as our powers and was discovered and replicated

[tall echo]

I'm giving up for the sake of my patience and sanity

[somber adder]

Transference can be performed without Tenno powers, but Tenno are the only ones who can do it without somatics

[tall echo]

ELEANOR IS MOSTLY TRANSFORMED INTI A MIND CONTROL FRAME

[restive river]

Her telepathic abilities are likely due to her being void attuned

[lean garden]

I mean, thats exclusively her nyx powers no? Like thats purpose bred by someone not the infested

[restive river]

Also cause Nyx

[lean garden]

(and being nyx)

[somber adder]

Nyx is a warframe

[restive river]

Ye
All warframe powers are powered by the void

[somber adder]

An infested organism

[tall echo]

Fffff

[restive river]

They’re all void attuned

[somber adder]

You could try chilling

[restive river]

Those abilities are more likely due to being void attuned as that’s how Warframe abilities even work at all

Like unless it’s physical the infestation has nothing to do with their abilities

[somber adder]

Pretty sure they’re attuned to the void because of their Helminth blood

[restive river]

They’re attuned to the void because they’re warframes.

[silk atlas]

The Helminth part doesn't really mean anything. They have Transference Bolts in them.

[restive river]

Because Warframes are void tech

[somber adder]

That’s the same as what I said

They’re warframes, which are created from infestation

[restive river]

Semantics

They have more than helminth blood.

[restive river]

You’re forgetting the rest of the infestation isn’t void attuned

Its just the warframes
The rest of the infestation dislikes the void.

[somber adder]

Helminth is a special strain, said so yourself

[restive river]

I
Know???

[silk atlas]

That doesn't mean it being Helminth itself is enough of a reason for it to be Void attuned.

[restive river]

I’m not sure what your point is

[somber adder]

Ain’t hard to believe the Helminth is to blame for their void powers

[restive river]

It isn’t

It’s because the warframes need to be void attuned, they need to be void tech to use their abilities at all

[tall echo]

You could try to be less infuriating to talk lore with

[restive river]

Helninth doesn’t have any more special void properties than any other strain has by default, not that we’re aware of at least
It’s only the Warframes

[somber adder]

This is solely a you issue, I’m just discussing things

[somber adder]

Where do they get the void powers then? Transference isn’t it, that’s just the act of transferring consciousness

(And teleportation)

[restive river]

They’re void tech
They get it from the Heart like every other piece of void tech.

I wish the heart of deimos quest was replayable lmao

[somber adder]

Amir transformed on the fly, he’s not fitted with any void stuff that I can see, so logically the injection gave him void attunement

[restive river]

???

Albrecht himself says they’re void attuned

[somber adder]

Duh

[restive river]

They’re still Warframes powered by the Heart of Deimos.

Warframes are void tech
Helminth is not void tech
This is not difficult.

[somber adder]

Yes but what I’m saying is, he is only a warframe powered by said heart because of the HELMINTH injection he received

That implies the helminth is CAPABLE of giving you void powers, and thus should be capable of giving itself at least an understanding of them

[restive river]

Not really?

Warframes are designed not just birthed by Helninth

Ballas and Albrecht went out of their way to design specific frames, that likely also involves attuning them to the void.

Nothing suggests Helminth has access to it by default, in fact it also specifically isn’t a fan of void things so why would it even involve itself?

[graceful swan]

“The true nature of the Warframes and their Tenno connection is a secret lost to the Old War. Together, they represent our best hope in turning the tide of the machine war. Warframes are unique from Dax and other Infantry, deploying dangerous and esoteric Void energy, and equipped with often mundane physical weapons – this is key to fighting an enemy that had turned our technology against us.”

[somber adder]

Operator isn’t a fan of the void either, doesn’t mean they don’t use their void powers tho

[lean garden]

(Side note: regardless of the helminths involvement of void attuned warframes, the general population of infestation, techrot, mutalist, grey etc, appear to be more naturally opposed to the void, even occasionally likened to fearing the void)

[restive river]

^

[somber adder]

Obviously

[graceful swan]

"(We fear nothing but the Void demon)"

[restive river]

You’re missing the fact that nothing beyond the Warframes themselves does anything suggest Helminth themself is void attuned or even has access.

[graceful swan]

Warframes are Void attuned not Helminth

[somber adder]

I’m saying that it isn’t outlandish to suggest the helminth is capable of telepathy

[restive river]

You’re making an assumption based on the fact that Warframes are void tech
But the infestation is not void tech
Helminth is not void tech, it’s just the metal shell that holds the void powered bits.

[lean garden]

Plus like, albrecht had a great hand in turning them into warframes, I think it would be somewhat reaching to assume that the Hex's void-attuned state is an unregulated (by engineers) property of the helminth'

[somber adder]

Because it’s capable of puking out an entire void-capable warframe, it’s not a stretch to suggest it can talk to you without speaking aloud

[lean garden]

I mean, it wouldnt be outlandish to suggest the helminth has the ability to speak in the heads of the infested/infested-adjacents, but it is quite... how to say, off that it has this mental property with those outside its network

[restive river]

But it isn’t, those frames are designed by people not by Helninth.

[restive river]

Exactly

[somber adder]

It is very objectively capable of puking out an entire warframe, as seen in The Hex

[restive river]

I do think it could speak through connecting to other devices it infects but not just into someone’s brain

[restive river]

What part of designed did you not read?
Excalibur is a designed Warframe, Helminth doesn’t do that on its own.

[somber adder]

It’s magical space flesh that can make televisions alive, birth void-tech from its mouth and create advanced weaponry, it being capable of telepathy is not outlandish

[graceful swan]

Orokin designed the frame Helminth is the resource that’s used as skin

[somber adder]

What part of “puked” did you elect to ignore so you could continue to argue? I know Ballas designed them

I’m saying the Helminth is capable of puking them out, because it is

[lean garden]

few things:

1. It puked out an excalibur yes, but it had no part in designing it
2. We still have yet to figure out how loid engineered something like that
3. The final product of a warframe still doesnt really necessitate the helminth being void-attuned as well, much like how you dont expect Car-Maker 9000 to be able to pair with your iphone in lieu of a missing aux cord

[restive river]

It absolutely is when there’s no precedent for it having that ability.
It’s not void attuned and has no connection to our tenno other than the frames.

[somber adder]

Telepathy doesn’t need it to be void-attuned

It already has hivemind functionality

[restive river]

Have we observed telepathy at all outside of void attuned individuals?

[graceful swan]

Helminth can’t just create frames it still needed the designer to make it work

[somber adder]

I hate this server’s profanity filter so much

It’s not a stretch to suggest that the flesh guy who can make all this super advanced stuff intrinsically, and has hivemind organs, could project a thought into someone’s head

That’s not as bizarre as you people think it is

[restive river]

I disagree from what we have seen.

[somber adder]

It is the magical flesh goo

[restive river]

It
Is not magic

The void is the closest thing to magic

[somber adder]

How is it a stretch to suggest the magical flesh goo can use telepathy when it already has inter-infested telepathy

[somber adder]

I did not mean that literally

[lean garden]

I think the point of contention is that you may have implicitly implied that their telepathy is because the helminth has space magic too, which only recently you've split away from that tangent

[graceful swan]

It’s not magic

[restive river]

It being able to communicate with other infested make sense
But not to a being who’s specifically immune.

[lean garden]

because up to this point, what you've presented linked the helminth's "telepathy" with nyx/eleanors, which more likely belong to the subset of engineered warframe powers powered by the void

[restive river]

Again, when have we observed telepathy outside of void attuned individuals?

[somber adder]

I still stand by the point that it’s not bizarre to suggest the helminth, which has access to void magic via warframes, could use some primitive form of transference-related telepathy

[graceful swan]

It doesn’t even need telepathy

[somber adder]

Operator has a brain. It can probably learn to interface its hivemind tech with a human brain just fine.

And if it can’t, well it could just use whatever part of a warframe blueprint gives it void magic to give itself transference

This is the game with void horse, void dragon and time travel with additional flesh time, flesh telepathy isn’t so absurd

[restive river]

I don’t think you can do transference on a conscious host without a bolt, we’ve seen how that goes even when they have a bolt.

[somber adder]

We have done that though

[restive river]

No?

[somber adder]

We have done partial transference on the Hex during the finale, which was essentially just telepathy

[restive river]

As far as we know the Hex have bolts and they’re conscious and can reject it.

The Tenno do not have a bolt

[somber adder]

Transference isn’t always active control of someone, it can be just telepathy

[somber adder]

The tenno have magical powers

Do not say to me it is unbelievable they could be transferred into without a bolt

[restive river]

You’re suggesting the helminth is doing transference on the operator.

[somber adder]

They do in fact have magical powers

[restive river]

It is.

Because that’s what we’ve observed

[somber adder]

No, I’m suggesting it might be using a transference-derived ability to speak via telepathy

Because that isn’t an unbelievable thought

[restive river]

I feel like you’re ignoring what could be a much simpler explanation just for the sake of telepathy

[restive river]

It is to me as it has not been observed.

[somber adder]

Your “operator can understand infested” theory is unsubstantiated

[somber adder]

Most of the stuff in this game hasn’t been observed

Lore is about as complete as a dinosaur bone

[restive river]

And yet my arguement is built on what’s observed
Minus the tenno understanding through mitosis of controlling the frame
Which I still think is possible because of the deep relationship they have and the infestation talking to the frames prior

[lean garden]

I still stand by the point that it’s not bizarre to suggest the helminth
Helminth having some form of telepathy might not be entirely unorthodox, we've seen other flesh-monster hive minds execute this function before (Looking at you gravemind)
which has access to void magic via warframes, could use some primitive form of transference-related telepathy
This on the other hand, is. It seems to me like affirming the consequent:

1: Helminth is involved in the creation of the warframes
2: The Warframes are armed with void magics

Conclusion: Since it is true that the warframes are armed with void magics, therefore the helminth, which is involved in the creation of the warframes, is also armed with void magics

[somber adder]

That isn’t what I’m saying

I’m saying it could have an understanding of what gives warframes void powers since it is what fabricates the majority of a warframe

[restive river]

It certainly sounds like it since you’re suggesting it uses some derivation of transference, which may or may not be some level of void magic.

[somber adder]

I’m suggesting it might be able to use such things

[restive river]

*It fabricates all Warframes

[somber adder]

Of A warframe

Read first, retort later

[restive river]

Armed with and using are the same thing?

[restive river]

Sorry, read fast :p

[somber adder]

What are you saying here

[restive river]

Too fast
My bad lol

[somber adder]

No worries

[lean garden]

but you are saying that it might have transference-derived telepathy, so either you are suggesting that the helminth reverse engineered some void-powers, or that the helminth engineered its own tech-based version of void-powers (akin to the kind ballas and silvana use)

[somber adder]

Yes

[lean garden]

so which one is it

[somber adder]

Either

[restive river]

I’m saying what’s the difference between those two?
Bau said you were suggesting it was armed with it, you’re saying no it just uses it
What’s the difference.

[somber adder]

I do not remember saying that

I remember saying it might be able to use it

[restive river]

Is that not what this is?

[lean garden]

but the first one runs into the affirming the antecedent no? since it relies on "if warframes have void powers, so does the helminth"

[somber adder]

I’m fairly sure both options are compatible with my argument

[restive river]

You can add might to it but it’s still what you’re suggesting it’s doing.

[somber adder]

I do not understand you

[lean garden]

Im saying the first option is logically invalid

[somber adder]

What are your words meaning

[restive river]

The feeling is mutual :p

[restive river]

I’m saying that’s still what you’ve suggested to be the case.

[somber adder]

I am still not understanding

[lean garden]

Like I have lesser (if not no) issues with the helminth having some form of telepathy, but I do have issues of it being transference derived

[graceful swan]

This discussion is going in circles

[somber adder]

Why? It can fabricate warframes, which have transference bolts

Shouldn’t be too hard for it to learn how that stuff works

[lean garden]

The car factory assembly line machine doesnt have the same functionalities as the car it makes no?

[restive river]

I don’t think you know how transference works

[somber adder]

Car factory is not sapient flesh man

Sapient flesh man is smarter than car factory

[restive river]

The bolts require either a user with innate transference (only the tenno) or somatics

[lean garden]

tell that to the Skynet that just laid off toothless bob from the factory

[somber adder]

The helminth is plugged into the void magic spaceship, maybe it has access to the somatic pod

[lean garden]

but also, does this not presume that the helminth is yknow, capable of learning what it takes engineers to produce in its strains?

[restive river]

If transference is void tech then helminth using void tech is likely a no go as it’s very obviously not a fan of the void.

[lean garden]

whats that quote again? The ability to speak doesnt confer intelligence?

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-jarjar-intelligent-insult-gif-10608176

[somber adder]

Sure, but the helminth very clearly is at least somewhat intelligence

Typo, but it’s funny so I’m keeping it

[restive river]

I do not believe its the pod itself that has the somatics, it likely acted more as an antenna for the tenno who wore somatics
Thats the metal bits on their face

[somber adder]

Fair enough

Pod is still related to the tech tho

[lean garden]

like me :D I am somewhat intelligence

[restive river]

Said metal bits would not be accessible to the Helninth

[somber adder]

I just think flesh guy is more smart than he is given credit for

Maybe flesh guy telepathy. That’s all

Thank you for amusing conversational

[restive river]

I think they’re smart enough to not mess with void tech

[lean garden]

anyways, the issue then is whenever the helminth is doing a poopoo, its at the commands of someone who knows how to make it poop

[somber adder]

I

What

[restive river]

We’re deteriorating fast

[lean garden]

So is flesh man smart? Or is flesh man only good at following orders

[restive river]

Bau how much sleep did you get

[somber adder]

Ooga booga poop rock

[restive river]

How much sleep did you get?

How much sleep did any of us get

[somber adder]

Some

[restive river]

Better than none

Brief reminder to drink water and be kind to yourself

[somber adder]

Real

[lean garden]

its 149am

[restive river]

Bau
How long have you been awake?

[blissful merlin]

I got 12 hours of sleep. I forgot to set an alarm 😅
Body needed it thou

[restive river]

Nice!

[lean garden]

yes

[restive river]

Drink some water and get some good rest please 😭

[feral cape]

Seems as though I missed something fun

[graceful swan]

You missed a conversation going in circles

[feral cape]

Circles are fun

[spiral orchid]

can someone explain this ? like how is he just there

[hexed oxide]

as i understand it, he moved to albrecht's labs along with his furniture and kids

[old dome]

hes invading the labs

[spiral orchid]

interesting

[restive river]

The man in the wall and the Indifference are one in the same
That includes the Murmur
He isn’t just up there, you’re standing on him.

He is invading the labs

Though his Murmur are specifically just a piece of him trying to pave a way for him
I like to see it like having control of skin cells and sending them to open a door for you

[woven coyote]

Thx i hate that mental image

[graceful swan]

You don't like standing on a wall man?

[spiral orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-laptop-duh-gif-8033838636860661307

when you put it like that it makes a little more sense

still dont under stand the whole strand of khra thing

[restive river]

They’re conceptually embodied timelines
That’s kinda all we got on it :p

We know the murmur boss(es) make them and that we stop them to cut the strand
We also know that so long as Wally is missing his finger he’s confined to only being on strands on khra

Which I think is more his whole being as the Murmur can obviously sneak in places

[feral cape]

What kind of rope does it take to restrain a human?

There's a specific answer and it's not about the material

[proper barn]

Cuz the Void leaking into the Labs is Albretchs domain line how duviri is its own and Parvos has his own.

[dusty grail]

But like fr tho why did Wally allow us to build duviri in his domain

Guy doesn’t accept his deal and then starts squatting in the void

[graceful swan]

He didn't really have a choice in the matter

[proper barn]

The Void isn't his domain

He doesn't controll all the Void.

[restive river]

I don’t control all of realspace but I do live there

Despite what Lettie will have you believe Wally isn’t a god
Just a very powerful void entity

[fluid vapor]

maybe this is a bit of a crazy take, but with the way this stories gone so far some characters really need to start dying off

and I feel like with how close were getting to wally, that's gonna happen after 1999

because if not then the games kinda running into the same issue as fairy tale the anime where. well there's "Stakes" but none of them matter or they all get resolved within a matter of a week

a theory me and a friend kinda tossed around is that were gonna lose the operator

the same way rell was kinda holding back the man in the wall were gonna have to make a choice to use the operator to sort of "seal" wally away

if not that then i have a feeling were gonna have our hand forced to put lotus down

[woven coyote]

doubt either operator or lotus will die

simply because both have cosmetics
it would be insulting to players who have invested into either to just kill the character off

[fluid vapor]

killing a character off in lore vs cosmetically is different

operator? yeah i can see, but lotus? she can die and still be a mission guide

[woven coyote]

nah never gonna happen

you think too lightly of how much players would be pissed off to have their cosmetics go to waste

this is a different matter to just killing a random character because of the potential financial investment players can have in them

imagine getting a skin for the lotus, carefully choosing your collor scheme and suddenly, lotus dead enjoy purple hologram lotus again

[fluid vapor]

wouldn't be going to waste with her still being a mission guide, but I mean lets x those two out. what steps can the story really take atp to add any sense of like stakes or "this matters" because it's been 11 years and I feel like we've gotten a whole lotta "Remember this it's gonna be important later" .....well its kinda later now. and as for the purple hologram, yeah i forgot they do that for charactes when they're dead/gone kinda backs them into a corner of inabillity to use that as a major plot point

but like......what are we even theorizing is gonna happen soon or in the future?

"wallys gonna do something" yeah he's been about to do something for years on years and kinda has done the equivalent of throwing a rock in a pond and giggling then walking away

my top point and middle point for that first paragraph are a bit confusing

basically, yeah you're right they probably cannot kill lotus due to that reason. even though there are some ways i could think up of her still being able to be used in the way she is now i doubt DE would do that

[woven coyote]

it has been quite a few years since the last time we had no idea what the next step would look like

[fluid vapor]

i feel like it's kinda making it hard to be excited for anything tbh

[woven coyote]

conversely it makes me excited for devstreams and tennocon

[fluid vapor]

I mean i can see that but after the amount of time i've played this game and watched dev streams just for the biggest like climax to be new war, and for that to not be as much of a dagger slam as I expected (not saying I didn't like it still love that quest to my heart and soul) just kinda left me there like "Well......what now?"

and dont get me wrong i love the newer updates as well

but they feel like they're kinda getting off track

[woven coyote]

how are they getting off track ? they are properly using what we learned in tnw and following the thread left by the end AKA wally appearing

we are just in the beggining of the arc

[fluid vapor]

maybe thats the thing for me, kinda just gotta wait out the build up of a new arc

and i hate to sound like some edge lord but like

some characters gotta die this time

we lost teshin and thats pretty much it

ballas and erra don't count really because they're villains

but like going through out catalogue of people that would matter to the tenno if they lost them i think we pretty much have everyone

[humble sierra]

The issue is that 90% of our allies have relevancy not just in story, but in gameplay.

[fluid vapor]

I feel like maybe i would've felt different if when "for narmer" happened a lot of the adults in fortuna died and the vent kids had to take over

[humble sierra]

We can't get rid of someone like Konzu, for example, without there needing to be a replacement for the Ostron bounties, so either they do all the work to have Saya replace him, or it's just a Ghost/Specter Konzu like we got with Teshin

[fluid vapor]

konzu dies onkko can replace him

it would advance their storyline

imagine that plot moving forward saya finding out who onkko actually is

[humble sierra]

It would be a lot of work for DE, having to get every possible Konzu line to be voiced by Onkko instead

[woven coyote]

not really onkko must remain hidden for both the future he wants for saya and for his job as a quill

[fluid vapor]

and must that thing 100% work out?

[woven coyote]

at least he wants it

[fluid vapor]

why does onkkos story line have to come to fruition?

the point of a characters struggles is somtimes they lose

[woven coyote]

you mean how he already lost a future with his wife just to make sure she is alive and happy ?

[fluid vapor]

yes

[humble sierra]

Onkko's barely a person by this point too, he's fully devoted to the will of the Unum

[fluid vapor]

and the unums will just either can't change or onkko cant possibly not be seeing 100% what she wants?

because once again that brings us to a point where i'm questioning, where do these characters have faults and flaws?

[humble sierra]

And it seems he was even before he faked his death, he had no work/life balance and that caused a lot of tension with him and Saya

[fluid vapor]

its almost like when we get a character we get all their exposition and then their character just flatlines

[woven coyote]

an element your arguments miss is that this is a live service game
there are limits to what they can do and sacrifice
also not all characters get fleshed out even in a book

not saying your ideas arent valid but live service games and their stories require a slightly different approach and care

[fluid vapor]

i understand that and thats why i've often offered the idea of certain characters being replacement, or i'd even be fine with characters that are dead still showing up in their area

[woven coyote]

one of DE's constant struggles through the years has been balancing out new content with keeping old content functional

and quite a few characters would cause more work for the devs than their deaths would offer lore wise

[normal mountain]

you mean like Vor

[fluid vapor]

to be fair

we as the tenno practically have "killed" no one

well other than grineer queen, and a few specific bosses

[lean garden]

And all their goons in between

[fluid vapor]

but for the most part of my understanding these guys are still alive and kicking in lore after we kick the crap out of them

like wasn't alad v still live in new war?

[lean garden]

Alad v has the special circumstance of being a little rat

[woven coyote]

that roach has a bad habit of not dying

he has been suspiciously silent since tnw tho

[fluid vapor]

i feel like hat perfectly describes a lot of warframe characters their just roaches

[lament stirrup]

Funniest possible direction they could take Alad V is revealing he's made himself into a protoframe.

[fluid vapor]

like how have the corpus not just nuked fortuna yet?

[lean garden]

Cheaper to just keep fortuna

[woven coyote]

infinite debt hack

[normal mountain]

Though the Orbs have been tempted on Occasion

[lament stirrup]

They don't know Eudico's a traitor. From the Corpus perspective the Tenno show up to wreak their usual chaos time to time unprovoked.

[fluid vapor]

yeah you know

i think i've realized my issue

[normal mountain]

Wonder if he would use Mesa or Valkyr again
Or maybe a new warframe...

[fluid vapor]

everything in this games story is kinda set up to have a cop out, the whole idea of the void itself kinda writes that point in

[lament stirrup]

Zanukaframe when?

[fluid vapor]

well, fun theorizing, time to go blast a level 200 grineers jet pack off with ivara again

[lean garden]

Sorry which part of the void writes in a cop out?

[normal mountain]

A Zanuka frame
Now that's an interesting idea

[lean garden]

How many more frames do you need to spin

[fluid vapor]

were immortal, the drifters immortal, eternalism

[lament stirrup]

Tbh I've been trying to design a Zanuka themed Tennogen helmet for Valkyr but textures are hard.

[lean garden]

Player character immortality is to be expected, but like we know that there's a way to kill us, just ask rell.

And also eternalism hasnt been utilitsed as cop out 9000, so youd be running into untouched hypotheticals

[normal mountain]

Well, as far as I know, only Inaros and Caliban actually spin
Grendel rolls, not sure if that counts
So, yes, I would like more spinning frames

[lean garden]

Rev spins, dont forget rev

[normal mountain]

Oh yeah, he does do that in Danse Macabre, doesn't he?
Always forget that ability

[normal mountain]

So that's 3 frames
Out of what, 60?

have we reached 60 yet?

[lean garden]

Fiddy nine

[normal mountain]

Ah, almost

[lament stirrup]

Would be incredibly funny if the 60th warframe was Fragmented One themed.

[normal mountain]

Been hoping for a Void Angel frame, honestly
don't ask me how that would work, I don't know yet
But a Fragmented frame would be intriguing

Oh wait 60 eyes
I get it now

wow, that took too long

[lament stirrup]

Their passive is making me wair ten minutes so I can die slowly and painfully trying to get an accolade glyph.

And a singular steel essence.

[smoky gyro]

Isn’t that technically what Valkyr is?

[lament stirrup]

Well, Valkyr was skinned to make Zanuka. So technically Zanuka is a Valkyrmoa.

[hasty flume]

is it known what kuva tastes like?

[lament stirrup]

" So I draw on the Red Vial, a vague metallic taste."
From Ordis' memory fragment

[normal mountain]

I mean, Kuva is blood right?
Probably tastes like blood
which tastes strongly of iron, btw

[smoky solstice]

I think it's a lot more complex than that, given that it's a void derived substance after all

But I guess based on the look and description of the taste, you may just be right that it's effectively blood lol

[feral cape]

Eternalism isn't a cop out and our immortality is conditional

If something or someone can crush our consciousness post mortem it's wraps

[smoky solstice]

Honestly I wish you could attempt the bosses over and over without having to repeat the mission. Like I love the apex tank fight in theory but when you make a couple mistakes and are brought back to your base to retry the whole mission over again, effectively like 3-5 minutes, it's so tedious to actually do attempts on. Idk why the DE devs haven't thought of this, maybe not enough people care to have expressed this.

I know it's much worse with 60 eyes but it's still tedious and makes me not want to do this really cool boss which you can't just cheese with abilities and have to actually learn.

[proper barn]

PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY ETERNALISM when it hasn't actually been used that way.

[smoky solstice]

Yeah, it's weird, especially since I don't even get how it can be used that way unless the writers are really being lazy

[proper barn]

It's never been used that way. people just wanna be pre-upset about something.

[smoky solstice]

Like what about the Warframe version of "multiple universes" screams some sort of loophole to get out of any situation?

I don't really see how it works, like if the Operator dies for instance, how is eternalism fixing that

Also, didn't the New War imply in a sense that all of the different operators kinda consolidated into one after the deal was made, with the exception of the drifter? Or did I misread that cutscene?

Because if so, it goes even harder against that idea, since like, now there aren't a million operators in different universes, there's just the one

[normal mountain]

No, that was just all the other branches that span out from that deal
Including the one that led to the Drifter

[proper barn]

it probably means all the different possiblies for us went to one

cuz it happens to baro too.

[proper barn]

no you are wrong.

[smoky solstice]

Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
Still though, the way I understand eternalism isn't just multiple universes, even if that's the easiest way to explain it, since the way I see it is that the multiple realities thing is heavily involved with the void. So there's reality, the universe, then there's the void where all of these different possibilities sort of take form.

[proper barn]

Probably isn't.

maybe.

[smoky solstice]

I mean it is kind of a head canon type of deal since it's not explained completely in detail, I could be way off base, I think I've seen Rebecca explain it as multiple universes in interviews but again, that's the easiest way to explain it to a broad audience, how is she just gonna go into all the nuances of that

[proper barn]

also like

[normal mountain]

Really?
Anything to back up that claim?
Because tagging someone just to say they're wrong is a little...

[proper barn]

If you see another possbililty is it just the void showing a unrealized possiblity?

[smoky solstice]

Oh unrealised is actually the perfect word here, like there's the reality where all the decisions are what they are and then there's all of the different things that could've happened that sort of exist in theory but don't actually exist in reality unless something happens to bring it there.

Like now that I think about it, it doesn't really make sense for the drifter to even be in the new war otherwise, like what, they just hopped universes? How? I mean the precise reason they're there I don't think is ever fully explained but it makes a lot of sense if the drifter is more of just something that could've happened that then got brought into reality rather than a character created by something that did happen who somehow just hopped over to our reality from theirs.

Anyway, as to your question, what exactly are you asking there? Like if you conceive of a different version of events, if it's just the void showing you what would've happened?

[proper barn]

okay that's fair. my proof is like how the baro deal worked and like the fact all the operators look the same and like basiclly come together.

[normal mountain]

Okay, I can see that
Not at all what occurred to me, but I admit I was a little distracted by being on the Zariman

[smoky solstice]

For me it's definitely the operators coming together visual that makes me partial to vinny's theory, since it seems like a weird visual to have otherwise, it seems to imply some sort of consolidation of the different versions, and it happens as soon as the deal is struck, which implies that that's either the reason or otherwise the point of said implied consolidation

[smoky solstice]

Anyway, just to finish my thought regarding this, I'm using reality here as if excluding the void, which is I think incorrect in the context of the Warframe universe. I'm just saying that it's sort of theoretical realities outside of the Void, there aren't necessarily all those universes co-existing, but they definitely exist inside of the Void.

And the reason I say this is that Eternalism is literally described as all of these branching realities having happened, I think it's simply referring to the fact that they all exist due to the fact that all of them are accounted for within the Void.

An alternative theory would be that it's a traditional multiple universes thing and the Void is simply how these universes can be entangled with one another, which would sorta explain how the Drifter got there, being effectively stuck in the Void. But I guess there's no way to know for sure which one it is, at least no way I'm aware of.

Lmao, don't know if I can post screenshots but as if on queue, I just saw a community post from dsiege saying he's gonna make a whole video about Eternalism, I guess I'll see if my mind gets changed, the timing couldn't be more insane though

[feral cape]

The end where we shake hands is more than likely the timeloop collapsing

[smoky solstice]

Timeloop?

[feral cape]

The scene in the zariman is a trap devised by ballas

Him being incapable of killing us opted to trap us in something that should be impossible to break out of

A timeloop placed within our own history

[smoky solstice]

Oh, but part of that history was the handshake, no?

[feral cape]

Yes

However when you shake hands it pans out to the Drifter who caused the loop to collapse

[smoky solstice]

So what was the loop originally, the scene up until the handshake when it loops?

[feral cape]

Somehow

I assume we shake hands and go to the start

[smoky solstice]

Interesting, I always saw it as a flashback but this makes a lot of sense too

[feral cape]

However we don't know we just know its a recursive timeloop

[smoky solstice]

Since I wasn't always clear on how Ballas kept us out of the Origin system exactly

I mean banishing us to the void obviously but what exactly happened to us there I wasn't always clear on, this makes a lot of sense though

[feral cape]

Timeloops

How did he make it no idea

My theory

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe he didn't have to

[feral cape]

A "genie"

[smoky solstice]

Genie?

[feral cape]

Dw bout it it's a silly joke that bau will get if I he opens this chat

He might also be asleep

[smoky solstice]

Alright, I'm thinking like the void like has a certain effect of causing people to loop like this, maybe it was enough to just put us there and let the void do the rest of the work

Of course, we often visit the void no problem in both gameplay and story so there's a hole in that theory but I don't think Ballas has any control over what happens there so it's weird

[feral cape]

I mean ballas planned for this happen

[smoky solstice]

The Indifference could've interfered to make it happen but the explanation for why they would do that I think becomes so convoluted as to basically rule that out for me

[smoky solstice]

Oh this does imply that it's Ballas that did this

[feral cape]

I mean

Yea

[smoky solstice]

Ok maybe it's a combo of void stuff and non-void stuff, like he made the veil tech, it works to manipulate people like this, maybe he employed some form of that combined with the void to get the desired result

[feral cape]

Drifter freed them

Through paradoxical outside intervention

[smoky solstice]

I just meant that it basically confirms that Ballas is the reason, rather than Ballas just doing something that he knew would result in us looping.

[feral cape]

I mean i feel like the thing opening with ballas knowing he can't kill us and then following up with ballases plan to take us out of the mix means he knew how to loop us

[smoky solstice]

I just don't believe that Ballas can manipulate the Void though, so I have to assume that the Operator got affected by whatever the veil tech is exactly, not by being veiled of course, and then that led to the looping inside the void

[smoky solstice]

Yeah, perhaps he doesn't have control of it but knows of the conditions that cause looping

Actually, he did like effectively kill the Lotus in front of us, at least that's a reasonable inference the Operator could've made, perhaps he knew that a severe emotional reaction to that would result in a Void loop.

That kinda makes sense, I mean it does seem like looping is associated with severe emotional reactions in some way

Well not in some way, the Void manifests those, the reason is clear there, I just mean that maybe that was the trigger that made us be stuck in the Void loop

And Ballas knew that it would cause this to happen

Oh also Teshin, can't forget Teshin

[sly pagoda]

I think its less the emotional reaction and the way a tenno momentarily dies in the setting. That bit where when killed in operator in a no frame sequence you float in the void for a moment and are back. The stab was not immediately lethal, So what happens if that death triggers while in the void. The whole system folds in on itself and stuff so weird happens even Scotty could not figure it out with a two part episode and tech support from Spock.

[obtuse vine]

man i wish they put all the arg lore in the game, kinda sucks tht most people wont even know it exists

[humble sierra]

Those Operator reports are in the game, at least

[hollow flare]

when albrecht said love was man in the walls weakness, I thought this better not turn into some power of friendship thing

it kinda makes sense now that I think about it

it's the indifference after all

[tall echo]

Yes

[digital grail]

His weakness men kissing

[hollow flare]

homophobic in the wall

[digital grail]

Our goal is for loid and albrecht to kiss and destroy tmiw

[slim thistle]

peak cinema

[analog knoll]

Y'know, I've been thinking about this

How does the drifter/operator even shower/use the toilet if they're stuck in the somatic link for 99% of the time?

There really isn't a bathroom on board the orbiter...

[hollow flare]

void

u poop into the void, and all the sweat and germs on ur skin get thrown in there too

that's y the man in the wall is so mad

[analog knoll]

Really? Wouldn't be surprised if the man in the wall's second agenda is to find the culprit who's using the void as a sewer

[graceful swan]

It's all off-screen

[analog knoll]

Ah, of course!

Oh god, I feel bad for some guy's operator/drifter holding it in for a 7 hour survival farm 😭

[graceful swan]

The real reason the Orbiter doesn't have one though is they didn't think of questions like this and it's the same reason movies don't show characters going to the toilet unless it's for a specific scene

On the bright side, the Mall has toilets

They are locked though

[lunar island]

They use a tube

plub to their...

[glossy gazelle]

Anyone know what this orokin writing means on the railjack?

[graceful swan]

Brihdj so Bridge

[glossy gazelle]

Thanks

[stiff fable]

Huh

Friend of mine had a great thought just now

What if the Unum is Wally's finger?

It'd explain all the weird time stuff, the multiverse stuff, and the temple kuva

[visual ermine]

Would be a funny idea. Ive always advocated for the idea of Wally’s aspects breaking loose and causing a civil war of 1

[woven coyote]

Sentient finger

[woven trench]

Whats up with the people of fortuna?

Where their heads at?

[spice spade]

can someone tell me the ivara lore

[woven coyote]

[woven trench]

What tah supposed to mean?

[woven coyote]

She was tested and was worthy 3 other frames died in the process

Oh and the thing she was hunting had a portable jade light
The end

[spice spade]

who tested her….

[proper barn]

The seven

[woven coyote]

The orokin who else would test warframes to see if they work?

[proper barn]

Mostly Ballas.

[woven coyote]

Yup

[spice spade]

oh so ivara needs to go jump him

that’s my head canon

[woven coyote]

Dont all frames ?

[spice spade]

yea

but ivara will mop

[woven coyote]

Spoilers or no spoilers?

[woven trench]

Spoilers I guess?

[spice spade]

also was it a man she was hunting

[woven coyote]

Their heads are in their chests

[spice spade]

and also what is a portable jade light

[woven trench]

...why?

[woven coyote]

Fortuna besides being a debt colony is also a body farm of sorts

Dont pay they take your body parts

Remember legs? In fortuna

[woven trench]

But they don't take the heads,they just...rearrange it?

[spice spade]

AHAT….

[woven coyote]

Who said its their original body

[woven trench]

Oh....OH

[spice spade]

they robot now

[woven trench]

OHHHHH,FUUUUUUUDGE

GEEEEZ

[spice spade]

but they’re still people imo

[woven trench]

Damn

[woven coyote]

Ticker's logs imply she even had to sell her parts to make enough money to buy back her lover body part by body part

[woven trench]

This...this is all kinds of messed up

[woven coyote]

Yup

The ultimate end is being brain shelved

Ill let your imagination run with that one

[woven trench]

Wait
So the vent kids...

[spice spade]

ticker is coming too

[spice spade]

they are fine

[woven coyote]

Thats why their heads are already neckless

They are primed for their future, or lack thereoff

[spice spade]

omg…

why is fortuna so dark

[woven trench]

Their heads...are the only ACTUAL body parts they have?

[spice spade]

how do they live with no heart

[woven coyote]

Unsure its not properly stated
What we can confirm is they have no necks

[woven trench]

So fortuna
Is a slave camp
And a organ farm

[woven coyote]

Yeeeeep

[spice spade]

why

[woven coyote]

Nef is well and trully a villain

[spice spade]

i thought they were normal because they hide in the vents

[woven trench]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-gif-27224532

[woven coyote]

Well yeah they hide in vents to avoid the repossession squads

But you can only fit in the vents for so long

[spice spade]

is that the people that cut ur limbs?

[woven coyote]

Yuuuup

[woven trench]

Aight
That's it

[woven coyote]

Thursby has a meeting with them before he becomes legs

[woven coyote]

Mid quest

[woven trench]

Corpus is no.1 enemy now
I won't ever side with them again,even when they'll give me orokin catylst from alerts

[woven coyote]

Reminder corpus arent monolythic

Theres likely a ton of bad people but not all belong to the same corp

Fortuna is owned by anyocorp for example

Btw grineer raze civilian colonies and are canibals

[tall echo]

There's a bunch of infighting among the corpus board of directors

[woven coyote]

Tho it isnt exactly clear how conscious they are of what goes into clone slurry

[woven trench]

OK
I'll just hate Nef Anyo then

[tall echo]

They all suck though so the only difference is how much they suck

[woven coyote]

Yup

[woven trench]

So
I haven't done Jade's Shadow
I know jade is pregnant
And she gave birth and stuff
So is that child like...what is that child?

[tall echo]

You have
-greedy coward
-greedy coward with loyalty issues
-greedy moron
-greedy genius

[tall echo]

Warframe

[woven coyote]

Same as warframes
Human infected with helminth

Since jade was pregnant before being turned

[woven trench]

So like
Warframe don't age
They don't eat

[tall echo]

Unknown

[spice spade]

will the child become a warframe

[tall echo]

Warframes are organic, it very much has the potential to grow

[woven coyote]

It is implied helminth feeds them in some way i think

And not ageing is different from not growing

But we will have to see where DE goes with this

[woven coyote]

In the sense it was a human infected with helminth yeah

But i would assume sirion doesnt have any other augmentation like the transference bolt

[spice spade]

where does helminth even come from??

like that’s confusing

[woven coyote]

Infestation strain

[woven trench]

Ballas made them

[spice spade]

there’s more??

[tall echo]

The helminth is just a domesticated strain of technocyte

[woven coyote]

There's several strains we know of yeah

Warframes are from helminth strain

[spice spade]

oh ok

[woven trench]

What are strains?

[spice spade]

so it’s a infection type thing

also how did he got on the ship

[tall echo]

It's part of the ship

[woven coyote]

In a way you could consider it how researchers talk about breeds of bacteria and viruses

But should probably look up the actual term

[lament stirrup]

Helminths dialogue post segment installation heavily implies there's a Helminth on every Tenno's ship by design, to heal warframes post combat.

[woven trench]

So the helminth is like,a subspecies of a specific super virus?

[woven coyote]

And maintain the ships life support functions

[tall echo]

The helminth takes care of all organic functions of the orbiter

[spice spade]

i can’t comprehend that

i’m still curious who put him in the room

[tall echo]

Pretty much

[woven coyote]

Technocyte/infestation yeah
Basically a techno plague that alters things on a molecular level and possesses a hive mind

[tall echo]

The orokin. When they made the orbiters.

[spice spade]

oh

[woven trench]

And helminth is a specific breed of them?

[spice spade]

so why did the orokin help us with helminth and ships tho?

[woven coyote]

Yup made to create warframes

[tall echo]

By the void

[woven coyote]

They created the warframes and used the tenno to control warframes

We used to be their weapon

[lament stirrup]

The Tenno got the Helminth and ships when they were still fighting the sentients and ostensibly loyal to the Orokin.

[tall echo]

Please do try to pay more attention to the story while playing

[spice spade]

ohhh i see

[spice spade]

it’s been like 2 months since i finished i won’t remember every detail

[woven trench]

So you're telling me,before heart of deimos dropped,we have a whole section of our ship infested with a virus,and we dint notice?

[tall echo]

The tenno were child soldiers in service to the orokin after their ability to control warframes was discovered

[spice spade]

omg so that’s why ppl live on zariman

[woven coyote]

We already had helminth since nidus and the glast gambit but it was only for the pimple and helminth charger yeah

[tall echo]

Lived

[spice spade]

how come no one lives there now

[lament stirrup]

Oh no, everyone (the players) noticed. The Operator was just fine with it and no one could figure out why until Heart of Deimos dropped. (We technically have had the Helminth since Glast Gambit, but there was no explanation for it and it didn't have a big mouth)

[woven trench]

They all went crazy

[tall echo]

They died

[spice spade]

Omg how???

[woven trench]

And yeah,then this

[tall echo]

Tenno happened

[lament stirrup]

Hey, no offense, have you ever actually played Warframe before?

[tall echo]

Self defense

[woven coyote]

Also it was intentional
Remember warframes are made from helminth

And helminth cares for the life support of the ship and warframe maintenance

[spice spade]

i thought the people on zariman are tenno

[lament stirrup]

The children on the Zariman were Tenno.

[tall echo]

The kids are tenno

[lament stirrup]

They became Tenno

[woven trench]

The void energy discord the adults mind,but kids are resistant to it,which grant them void powers,hence creating the tennos

[spice spade]

i’m so confused

[woven coyote]

Powers came from a deal with wally

[lament stirrup]

The Drifters dialogue in 1999 heavily implies that the Man In The Wall selectively protected the children specifically so they'd be emotionally vulnerable enough to make a deal with it.

[spice spade]

so they killed off the adults

[woven trench]

Ah right
Wally

[tall echo]

Not exactly but close enough

[spice spade]

so who do we play?? is the operator a child

[woven coyote]

Zariman 10-0
Ten oh
Tenno

We are tenno because we are survivors from the 10-0

[woven trench]

Guess so

[spice spade]

OMF……..

[tall echo]

Physically, yes

[spice spade]

my mind just blew

[feral cape]

The man in the wall did that

[tall echo]

Mentally, the tenno have gone through hell and a war

[woven coyote]

Yeah

[lament stirrup]

The Drifter has dialogue with Eleanor that confirms they're mentally still a child, with all the trauma that entails.

[spice spade]

wait so how is the drifter alive then after all those years

[feral cape]

We still are mentally a child teshin calls us out on that

[woven coyote]

Time loop within duviri

[lament stirrup]

They were in the void, which has a warped flow of time

[woven trench]

Ya know,sometimes I think most of warframes names and terminology are rich with lore and meanings,but I realised most of it is just clever punds

[feral cape]

In uhhhh war within i think

[spice spade]

Omg they must’ve gone crazy

[tall echo]

Apathetic

[feral cape]

Timeloop plus just people live longer in the future