lore-discussion

[hollow flare]

cuz entrati turned the hex into frames, also if viktor and scaldra are to be believed introduced techrot ie infestation

[proper barn]

The part isn't true

[restive river]

They aren’t to be believed.

[proper barn]

Also they dont say that.

[hollow flare]

so that would change a lot in our origin system, so it must be in another reality

[restive river]

Why would we believe them

[proper barn]

Also the hex also say thats not what happen

[restive river]

No…

[proper barn]

And the hex hate Albretch

[restive river]

Albrecht making the Hex doesn’t change anything

Additionally we help out in 1999 to ensure things aren’t changed further and that the possibilities of this time aren’t consumed by Wally.

[proper barn]

weren't they also a team before albretch?

He just turned them into protoframes

[restive river]

Ultimately the only things we do in 1999 from what we’ve been able to see that actually effect the origin system is making the infested liches.

[restive river]

Yes but they would’ve died without Albrecht

[hollow flare]

warframes were made post sentient rebellion, it was experimental and people didn't know much about them. so albrecht coming back with a way to make frames before the orokin have even risen to power yet or at least we are still stuck on earth

that changes the past significantly

[restive river]

No, it doesn’t.

[hollow flare]

not that I'm believing it straight up, but warframes come from the helminth, if entrati wants warframes he'd need the helminth somehow

[restive river]

Yes, he took a strain back with him

[proper barn]

He uses helmith from the normal system

[restive river]

Thats different from the techrot strain that was already there.

[proper barn]

To make them.

It's why I hate the term proto frames.

[restive river]

The protoframes existing don’t shake up the timeline as much as you’re thinking they do.

[hollow flare]

ye so techrot is just some mutation of the helminth leaking somehow or a completely new thing that just popped up?

[proper barn]

The Infestation

Goes back so so far

[restive river]

The infestation predates the Orokin

[proper barn]

Like it exists long before the old war

Also yeah predates the Orokin

[restive river]

It was already there before Albrecht got there.

[proper barn]

Yeah

[restive river]

The helminth strain he brought back wouldn’t do this much anyway, it’s the domesticated strain

[hollow flare]

ballas said "our far out colonies became gardens" or something like that during the sacrifice when discussing the helminth meaning they kinda became a problem later on

[tender topaz]

I thought the orokin made the infestation to counteract rogue warframes?

[restive river]

Furthermore it’s an altered one.

[proper barn]

No

[restive river]

No, that’s never been stated.

[proper barn]

They also use a bio Infested bomb later.

[proper barn]

Also no

[restive river]

The infestation was always a problem in some capacity.

[hollow flare]

no think infestation popped up on it's own they just tried to weaponize it

[restive river]

Deimos

[restive river]

We don’t know the true origin of the infestation, just that it predates the orokin and that they eventually used it

[tender topaz]

Okay so they did try to weaponize it?

Maybe that's where my confusion got

[restive river]

Yes, a lot

Lephantis
Warframes
Bio-bombs
The list goes on

[proper barn]

Yeah

[restive river]

But they didnt make the infestation originally

[hollow flare]

deimos is result, possibly eris seeing how much it exists there too

[restive river]

Just mastered it

[lean garden]

well yea, deimos is a result of that, in the sense that they detonated a bio-bomb on deimos to stop the sentient advance there

not that they weaponised deimos itself lololol

[tender topaz]

You can definitely tell eris got it hard by seeing the the planet itself be half consumed by nothing but infestation from the extraction zone

[hollow flare]

ok if the ifestation pops up on it's own pre-orokin era that solves a lot of confusion for me

[restive river]

Good!

I mean
Thats also just 1999

Since thats pre-orokin :D

[tender topaz]

So is 1999 not just an alt universe?

[hollow flare]

possibly just y2k, techrot could be the original big break out, the thing could've existed in small quatities always

[restive river]

Its not an alt universe

It’s the true past.

[tender topaz]

Sweet

[hollow flare]

I thought so too but someone here mentioned ur actions in 1999 giving rise to infested liches in the origin system so they must be the same

[tender topaz]

Fr?

[restive river]

Iirc the techrot dates back to ~1998 and likely before that as thats around when the coda clones started production iirc?

[hollow flare]

ye they showed u doing a hack that u mess up and now in the origin system the liches are out

[restive river]

^^^

[hollow flare]

they haven't been implemented just yet but that's how they work

[tender topaz]

I'm still dealing with a grineer lich atm, he won't spawn in so I can swipe my mods on him and make him retreat

[restive river]

We will see if any of our other actions effect the timeline too but so far its just the liches
which tbh makes sense since what we do in 1999 is relatively small compared to the larger scale of everything

[hollow flare]

I don't like that I'm in the same reality

in a way I give rise to ballas

[restive river]

Not really

He was gonna happen anyway

Whether the bomb went off or not

Nothing we do in 1999 gives rise to the Orokin empire as we aren’t involved in the Hollvanian government at all

[tender topaz]

Makes you wonder what timeline the origin system is in

[restive river]

Mostly just attacking Scaldra

[restive river]

Wdym

[hollow flare]

well we wiped out all but 2 during our time on the zariman

[restive river]

They were the same timeline before that though

[hollow flare]

think one is us: the one who took the offer, drifter: the one who didn't even get an offer

[stiff fable]

ah small correction, Ballas trapped the Operator in a timeloop. No timelines were destroyed in TNW.

[tender topaz]

From how far back we go, we go back to 1999 and we all we know is that orokin era is centuries in the future if I'm remembering correctly from the point of 1999

[restive river]

Imagine a line, now imagine it splits in two
That’s operator and drifter

[stiff fable]

which, LAME, but canon

[restive river]

It was a timeloop showing the events though, no?

[lean garden]

(otherwise where would the other 2 for crossplay come from?)

[restive river]

As it was literally our history

[hollow flare]

it's not flashback?

[lean garden]

Not a flashback

[stiff fable]

from the description on the computer it seems the Operator was living and reliving the Zariman accident

[restive river]

Its an undisclosed amount of time yes

[stiff fable]

Up to the handshake

[restive river]

Yes

[stiff fable]

And the Drifter was seeing that in their dreams

Until Lotus Biden eidolon blasted Drifter and broke the loop

[restive river]

The Tenno's personal timeline has been disrupted. Knowing he cannot kill the Tenno, Ballas has opted to imprison them within their own history. The Tenno will be unable to escape this loop without the paradoxical intervention of an outside force.

[tender topaz]

So the operator was at the zariman for an unknown amount of time before the void gave a deal to leave?

[lean garden]

no

[stiff fable]

Originally, yes. During New War, they're just reexperiencing the events, not actually there again.

[lean garden]

^

[restive river]

The tenno were trapped in a timeloop of their own history, events that already happened.

[hollow flare]

can't be over a day till the handshake

[restive river]

Its sometime after the jump

[stiff fable]

eh

There are a lot of missing kids in the classroom

[restive river]

We see that
Its probably no more than like an hour or two

[stiff fable]

It could have been as much as a week, though I really doubt that.

[hollow flare]

almost immediate even, we see the kids reacting to the void during the entry itself, they didn't even have time to leave the class

[restive river]

I really really doubt it

[stiff fable]

I'd guess it was several days, the Angels ARG implies that it took a while

[lean garden]

the operator is literally walking around in the loop, there was definitely enough time to leave

[restive river]

I mean
How long was Melica on for??

[lean garden]

very

[restive river]

Ah

[hollow flare]

maybe some people went crazy earlier, doesn't it work like that? 1 person folds and then the song lures the others?

[stiff fable]

The implication I got was that the kids had just re-barricaded themselves in the classroom

[restive river]

There’s also enough time that we went to see our parents, no?

[stiff fable]

Yeah

[restive river]

Like before they went fully crazy

[hollow flare]

oh so they fled back to there? can see that as the number of kids reduced

[tender topaz]

Possible

[stiff fable]

Yeah, and there were several groups who hid in different places

Melica namedrops Rell in one of her Zariman mission voicelines iirc

[restive river]

So the accident happens
We run to our parents
Uh oh they’re going crazy
That plays out how it does, likely us killing them or watching them die
Then run back to the classroom because it’s the safest location we can think of, which by that point many kids have left and we start barricading.

[stiff fable]

something like that

[tender topaz]

So we're counting the kids during the time loop vs after when they barricaded coming with a hypothetical they may have had time to see their parents before the ensued?

[hollow flare]

yes could be a lot of time, still under a week, maybe even less than half a week

[restive river]

Then once we do the deal and we all have powers we start blasting away at any adult we see, none of us thinking to check who is and isn’t crazy cause why would we? So many of us just saw our parents go feral.

[restive river]

Yeah, not that exactly ofc but something akin to it

[stiff fable]

Yeah it's the "and so I started blasting" meme

[hollow flare]

ye u don't see the full class in the barricaded scene

[stiff fable]

Like, there's enough time for all the Holdfast members to die in the various ways they do

[restive river]

We know we have enough time to see our parents, its just never shown unfortunately

[restive river]

Well Yonta’s is easy…

[stiff fable]

LOL right

[restive river]

Poor girl ):

[hollow flare]

the war within dialogue with ur parents is post jump too

[stiff fable]

But like, Cavalero gets deleted by angry kids

[restive river]

I named my Kuva Nukor after it

[stiff fable]

And... Hombask I think, got killed trying to protect some kids

[restive river]

Yes that’s the dialogue I’m kinda referring to

[tender topaz]

The idea that all of them didn't go insane is crazy to think since we possibly killed sane parents out of fear from the feral ones

[restive river]

Our father saying there’s something out there kiddo, watching us

[stiff fable]

also I really hope that the Operator's potential sib from the 1999 talks turns into a thing

[hollow flare]

skill issue, weapons expert gets got by some kids?

[restive river]

Which woulda been really cool to see in the quest but whatever-

[hollow flare]

prolly post void tbf

[restive river]

Kids with SUPER POWERS

[stiff fable]

oh the messed up part is that one of the AIM chats implies that Wally did it as a science experiment

To make two "sides" to fight and kill each other

[restive river]

It’s kinda suggested all the parents went crazy and all the non-parents didn’t, both dying from the Tenno tho

[feral cape]

I still think the whole debacle was just the most extreme way to make itself known

[restive river]

three if you believe he separated the parents from the non-parents for who turned feral

[feral cape]

And give itself more power that way

[restive river]

And by being known it exists
and by existing
it survives.

[tender topaz]

Yeah, out of pure curiosity, makes them go insane and gives kids to play with weapons to see if natural selection will kill the kids or if the kids survive

[hollow flare]

so entrati is the origin of the man in the wall right?

[restive river]

Ye pretty much

Without him going into the void this wouldn’t have happened

[feral cape]

So Maybe wally gains power from being known and that's how he went from what he was to being able to give us cool powers

[hollow flare]

he also somehow cuts of the finger of the big boi

[restive river]

Multiple things, including Albrecht basically tell us outright Wally is Albrecht’s creation, a void manifestation.

[feral cape]

By using the minute power it had to make itself known and using the power tithed from that to do more and more

[hollow flare]

and puts it into the railjack, maybe not the exact one

[feral cape]

And eventually cause the zariman incident

[stiff fable]

Well, Eleanor suggests that the Indifference would still exist, just not have an opening into physical reality

[restive river]

The door between the void and realspace was closed on his finger

[stiff fable]

The finger literally magically copies itself

[feral cape]

Guh

[restive river]

There’s multiple copies of the finger, we dont know where the original is

[stiff fable]

Which makes it super, duper ironic that the thing on the railjack is called a "void reliquary"

[restive river]

I think it would exist but like how the void existed, a nothing in a sea of nothing
It’s only with Albrecht that that changed

[hollow flare]

ye I thought so, there must be multiple because all the ships, even if we say there's only 1 sigma class railjack the zariman had access to void too

[stiff fable]

Catholic relics are typically pieces of the bodies of saints

[restive river]

We will likely see the original at some point during this arc tbh

[stiff fable]

One trait of a genuine relic, according to Catholic tradition, is that they can multiply on their own

[restive river]

Especially with Fib mentioning how Wally can’t get it or he is no longer tethered to conceptually embodied timelines

[restive river]

Interesting :o

[stiff fable]

The murmur are all little pieces of Wally is the fun bit

[restive river]

Ye

Me when I throw some skin cells to go do my bidding

[stiff fable]

Which is why Albrecht's prepping to blow the reactor

[restive river]

Ye

[stiff fable]

...And is probably correct to, before the Drifter shows up

[restive river]

I like to think his real plan was for us to want to save and ultimately love the Hex
Or at least that’s maybe what he changes it to

Since love is the poison to Wally’s plan

[hollow flare]

the more and more I think about how the void is used the more entrati starts sounding like some random scientist instead of the smartest guy, he kinda just uses these things without full understanding of how they function. used to think he found a way to 'extract' the void and use it as fuel or something, but it's the finger that he just happened to get while closing the door

[stiff fable]

but yeah, the murmur shows up, the Fragmented One shows up, and Wally has a beacon to reach into physical reality

Albrecht Entrati is Reed Richards

[tender topaz]

You noticed wally peering over the the land scape where the lotus is at if you look directly up

[stiff fable]

He's genuinely a genius, one of the smartest people alive.

But he's a theoretical physicist

[restive river]

He’s down in the dust too
And out in the skybox
And is the floor…

And the walls

[tender topaz]

Yep homie just watching lol, but you can see the form he took at the end of the new war when you directly look up compared to the sky box lol

[stiff fable]

He's cribbing from Ballas's notes, throwing the Cavia spaghetti at the (Man in the) wall to see what sticks, making up a bunch of stuff as he goes along

[hollow flare]

lotus got a big power buff post archon shards curious to see what all she can do now

[stiff fable]

Like he got his big ideas to fight Wally while on an acid trip with Loid

[stiff fable]

I want to know why Wally used the Lotus's hand for the shake during TNW

[fathom ridge]

I think it was either to use it against us emotionally or idk it's interesting why Wally used Lotus's hand for the shake

[humble sierra]

If I had to guess, that was a technical workaround. For whatever possible reason, the 'Operator' hand model looked weird in that position, so they had to try and find a similar looking hand to make it look natural. They already had the severed Lotus hand model because of the arm-chop scene.

[stiff fable]

I mean

[fathom ridge]

That reason is a lot more logical 😭

[stiff fable]

The Lotus's hand is also literally attached to Drifter during Duviri

like, their own right hand is split in half, it's absolutely disgusting

[tender topaz]

I did not put two and two together, that is gross

[fathom ridge]

With the fingers dangling

[humble sierra]

Actually I think lotus' hand is enveloping their hand.

[stiff fable]

I wish it was

[humble sierra]

The Drifter hand is overall fine, not mangled or deformed

There have been at least two debates about this on this very server, I think we came to that conclusion after looking at screenshots

[fathom ridge]

It's quite disturbing that drifter's wearing a person's hand as a glove. (I love it.)

[tender topaz]

I feel like that would be an awkward topic to blurt out to the hex-

"I wore someone's arm as a sleeve"

[fathom ridge]

They got tricks up their sleeves to say the least.

Either they're gonna accept the bizarreness of Drifter's story or being unable to sleep at night.

[stiff fable]

space trauma

Actually that reminds me of that Kakashi is hilarious series. "Drifter is primed to come down with space madness!"

[fathom ridge]

The whole Duviri thing reminds me of Alice in wonderland, but it's American McGee version and actually real for drifter.

[stiff fable]

One of the direct inspirations

I'l admit I'm a little bit sad they toned down the "space Western" idea they had originally

[fathom ridge]

....we could've been cowboys?

[stiff fable]

you ever see the original Duviri trailer?

It's basically the weird west

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DObN_3ha6M

[fathom ridge]

You're right though I didn't think about that when I played Duviri first and watch the trailer after lol

[stiff fable]

They mentioned that they reworked what Duviri was actually going to be several times

Back when they first came up with the idea? It was going to be the Jupiter open world

[fathom ridge]

I'm gonna pretend that it's a space west thing cause we do some cowboy stuff anyways

[fathom ridge]

DANG IT

[stiff fable]

The idea was that it'd be super foggy and take place in some kind of environmental bubble where actors(?), puppets(?), mind controlled people(?) and so on were acting out stories Westworld style

They'd already moved on from that idea by the time they released the first trailer in 2019

but yeah that's why all the trailers and prerelease materials have this wild west twang somewhere in the BGM

[tender topaz]

Still would be a great idea

[stiff fable]

Honestly yeah I still kinda wish they'd gone space western

[fathom ridge]

Crying because we could've had that but y'know what i'mma just play pretend anyways

[tender topaz]

Mesa gives everything the wild west feel anyways

[stiff fable]

There's still bits of it in Duviri. Kaithes. Sirocco. The cactus plant.

[fathom ridge]

But dang the puppet show would've been cool

[stiff fable]

Oh yeah, that's why Drifter uses Mesa in the release trailer, too.

[fathom ridge]

Mesa giving cowgirl vibe

[tender topaz]

She op as well

[chrome rivet]

So I wanna ask something about how we make Warframes according to lore

So the parts we build are just the skeletons in the foundry, and they are tossed into Helmith, to make the fleshy parts?

[tender topaz]

Interesting topic

Captain got all the lore

[stiff fable]

I don't remember the exact lore, but the Helminth is running the foundry

As well as the ship's air supply, waste recycling, Warframe repair, etc

[tender topaz]

All I know for sure is the warframes we have are copies of the original versions that have already died

[stiff fable]

I think originally the idea was that WF blueprints were both actual blueprints and had some parts in them that the foundry couldn't directly replicate

Hence in the Umbra quest we gather bits of Umbra to rebuild him

And via the Ship of Theseus the one we build has the consciousness of the original Umbra

[tender topaz]

Unfortunate to think we almost had the real umbra and not a copy

[stiff fable]

Well for all intents and purposes it is the original Umbra, through Continuity

Ordan Karis killed a BUNCH of Orokin but they were only mostly dead

https://tenor.com/view/princess-mostly-dead-slightly-alive-the-princess-bride-gif-15503255

[tender topaz]

Lmfao

To think Ordis was a bloody killer with only rage is crazy

[stiff fable]

I think it's messed up how he prefers being the way he is now.

[tender topaz]

Makes you feel almost uncomfortable to be around him in a sense

[fathom ridge]

To think that we have a cephalon that once slaughter a lot of orokins is wild.

[stiff fable]

Like, bruh

[tender topaz]

From the lore it said he killed for the orokin

[stiff fable]

Also that reminds me, DE we need NPC Tenno and cephalon pairs ASAP

[fathom ridge]

But I guess it's twinning cause tennos has been murdering a lot

[digital grail]

Idc if ordis is a sicho he's silly

[fathom ridge]

Ngl you're cooking with that statement

[stiff fable]

Yeah, he was a super mercenary, who got so famous for it that the Orokin invited him to join their club

But he was so sick of being himself that the idea of living forever disgusted him

[fathom ridge]

Like are we legit the only tenno awake holding all the responsibility on our shoulder?

[tender topaz]

Compared to us he's most likely nothing but it's messed up that he the facade he is now

[stiff fable]

I know, christ it's ridiculous

We know that other Tenno exist because of the Rhino that dropped Khal's Corinth Prime

[fathom ridge]

We're the real monsters compared to Ordis fr💀

[stiff fable]

if it makes you feel any better you technically only do each node once

[tender topaz]

Possible point but still-

[fathom ridge]

There are other dream pod things as well (don't know if most made it)

[fathom ridge]

That's still a lot ngl like damn a whole population

[stiff fable]

Technically every Warframe pod we defend in a defense mission is another Warframe/Tenno in cryosleep

[fathom ridge]

They should wake up smh/j

[stiff fable]

Just remember that Corpus and Grineer have control over the resources of entire planets

The tenno have space stations

And a colony ship that we still don't have full control over

[tender topaz]

Ntm grineer and corpus clone people for war so I guess in a way you have to return to nodes to maintain a semi control?

[stiff fable]

kinda yeah

[tender topaz]

Or at least for resources

The sabotages and assassinations don't make sense to do again since they would be destroyed

[stiff fable]

What we're doing is hitting bases that are both weak and important

Like, the difference between SP and normal?

Teshin calls ahead to let them know we're coming

[tender topaz]

The sabotage for Jupiter confuses me the most

[stiff fable]

Entire planets

We blow one station, it's replaced within a week at most

[tender topaz]

Unless that reactor is only for one building out of many others then the whole gas city would crumble after that reactor

[stiff fable]

It is!

[tender topaz]

I see

[stiff fable]

The gas city is ginormous

[fathom ridge]

That one cool line Teshin delivered about our weapon being music and the enemy calls for a song

[tender topaz]

Then it makes more sense why we can do it again

[stiff fable]

Like, Warframe tech level is cracked

The basic Grineer hatchet dudes have armor something like 15 or 25 times stronger than your average 40K space marine

[fathom ridge]

DANG

[stiff fable]

For emphasis: the weak, degraded, fugly, cannon fodder we slaughter by the millions, is capable of clearing a bunker full of Ultrasmurfs without much trouble

The difference is that the Warp is much safer than Void travel

[fathom ridge]

Who came up with the idea or void travel in the first place?

[stiff fable]

IRL?

[fathom ridge]

Eh sure

[stiff fable]

40K's been around for decades

[tender topaz]

Ayo? Fr?

[stiff fable]

I'd attribute it to Games Workshop, but I think DE would say that they were looking at the movie Event Horizon

[strange turtle]

Aren’t there also several others shown in parts of the skybox?

[stiff fable]

yeah I don't remember the exact number but it's ridiculous

[tender topaz]

So a warframe without mods could decimate a platoon of ultramarines?

[stiff fable]

One of my IRL friends hassles his online buddy by talking about how many space marines one Grineer lancer could kill

[stiff fable]

I wouldn't go that far because mods are why we can take down said grineer

But yeah totally

[tender topaz]

If a ultramine weaker than a butcher and a butcher is easy to kill with no mods then that's just wild

[fathom ridge]

We need those mods for.....staying on the ground.

Now it's a lot easier to comprehend ngl 💀

[tender topaz]

A dreadnought against a fully modded warframe..

https://tenor.com/view/taiyo-taiyo-asano-asano-taiyo-yozakura-yozakura-gif-8373093268411275375

[stiff fable]

I think primarchs can down Warframes but that's the level you have to get to

[strange turtle]

I think certain Space Marine characters could manage it but it’d also depend which one

[stiff fable]

The important thing to remember is that Warframes are stealth and tactics specialists

[digital grail]

cough nova cough anti matter

[stiff fable]

The Grineer and Corpus COULD actually crush the Tenno if they weren't fighting each other all the time

[raw stone]

Have you guys heard a warframe tho

[stiff fable]

Which is why the Tenno spend all their time making the Grineer and Corpus fight each other

[raw stone]

They are nigh silent.

Like this is biometal clanking and running around on likely ALSO METAL SHIPS and stuff. And nearly no sound.

[stiff fable]

My Octavia says otherwise :V

But yeah exactly. No mouths to speak, no mortal muscles to get tired.

[raw stone]

Like, we hear more sounds due to just how we're the warframe's pilot but to the enemies... we must be just... phantoms.

[tender topaz]

Depends on the warframe fighting the platoon as well

[stiff fable]

Valkyr

[fathom ridge]

Umbra screams a lot so yeah not silent

[tender topaz]

Valkyr go invincible and slows enemies with increased speed

She a brute force unit for sure

Rhino isn't quiet either

[raw stone]

Remove all your abilities.

[tender topaz]

The point of a warframe is the abilities though-

[stiff fable]

that reminds me, I need to pitch my tabula rasa Warframe to DE this year

[fathom ridge]

Yareli just skates in and do tricks

[raw stone]

Do you not think that a humanoid metal golem barely making sound isn't terrifying.

[stiff fable]

Imagine a warframe where you pick all four abilities from the Helminth

[tender topaz]

Nutz

[raw stone]

Did you guys not feel a rush doing your first spy - all three vaults cleared?

[tender topaz]

Idr tbh

[stiff fable]

I still kind of enjoy solo spy missions

Just, not on Lua

[tender topaz]

I only solo spy missions, I'm basic as well doing with ivara

[fathom ridge]

I slaughtered everyone during spy missions accidentally (there shall be no witnesses)/j

[raw stone]

I'd like a helminth frame. But tbh it can't pull too much from the actual pool of helminth stuff.

[tender topaz]

Lua is an.. odd one

[stiff fable]

and I admit I can't figure out how the hot and cold room in Jupiter spy works

[stiff fable]

I think it works as a capstone ability, like rank 16

[raw stone]

Oh. There's vents and stuff on the coolant room of jupiter.

[fathom ridge]

Lua spy mission? Haven't heard of that in a while

[tender topaz]

I don't either but I still get it done pretty easily

[stiff fable]

yeah I just use Ivara

[raw stone]

~# Pavlov pavlov pavlov

[stiff fable]

Infiltrator is god's gift to lazy people

[raw stone]

I use Loki so... idk

[tender topaz]

I literally named Ivara that too

[raw stone]

To be fair I do love Jupiter's City Spy tiles.

I always love that tile. Been my favprite since they reworked it.

[tender topaz]

The augment for Ivara to bypass lasers as well makes the spy missions extra brain dead in a sense

[stiff fable]

Anyway yeah Helminth focused frame. Two abilities would to be the Helminth-exclusive powers like Rebuild Shield or Expedite Suffering, and you can still only have one buff power (Roar, Xata's, Eclipse), but you'd otherwise have free reign to pick all its powers

[raw stone]

Yeah. To be fair though I don't remember the "alternate" routes or the intended sneaky routes as I think they're supposed to be

[stiff fable]

The problem good thing is that you don't see Lua spy in the sortie rotation

[raw stone]

grineer sealabsssss

[stiff fable]

so once you pass through the node you only ever go back if you need the one dual stat heat mod that's there

[tender topaz]

You're giving some devs possible ideas

[stiff fable]

iirc they took it out of rotation deliberately

[tender topaz]

Oh it use to be there?

[raw stone]

Yea

[stiff fable]

Pretty sure it was ages ago

[tender topaz]

Now that you say that

[raw stone]

And it was just... it is currently what Nira Spy is in Archon Hunts.

[tender topaz]

I believe I did see it at one point before I was doing sorties

[raw stone]

People are too haughty to equip a stealth frame

[stiff fable]

whu

WHY

[tender topaz]

I've been collecting frames so that I can use them for specific missions now-

[raw stone]

Idk. Ask The Saryn Who Refuses to Change Frames

Or the Revenant Who Refuses to Change Frames.

[tender topaz]

Yeah that's why solo is my way to go

[raw stone]

I would take a WUKONG. At least he's sometimes built for spy.

[tender topaz]

To avoid those

[stiff fable]

ugh
At least Wukongs could spy

But nah that's why you squad with friends.

After all, if anyone's tau pity goes off everyone gets the tau

[digital grail]

I never change my frame I just run through and if it's spy I use D

[tender topaz]

Funny you think I have friends who play the game still lol

[stiff fable]

spam them with 1999 clips

[tender topaz]

They all been gone for years bro

I got that meme of "last man standing" looking over bodies that say "4054 days ago"

[raw stone]

Anyway... hmn... lore. What do you think Lavos's lore was. I mean... we got it from Drusus but who came first. Lavos... or Lavos Prime

[stiff fable]

Probably base Lavos

I almost imagine that Lavos Prime's lore will be that he transmuted himself into a prime

[tender topaz]

What's crazy is, Trinity, Excalibur, Mag, Volt, Nyx, Cyte 09 are the oldest frames out there just from the 1999 lore in a sense

[stiff fable]

only in the paradoxical sense

[fathom ridge]

Their abilities match the old theme ngl

[stiff fable]

also lol yeah meanwhile Loki

[fathom ridge]

Other Warframes Drifter brings is a big whiplash at this point.

There's a whole Tumblr post dedicated to it

[raw stone]

Mirage is also old

And Octavia. Their anims aren't as extravagant despite the extravagant effects. That's how you know

[strange turtle]

The Hex watching the Drifter casually obliterate one of the biggest groups of Scaldra they’ve ever seen deployed using Dante:

[fathom ridge]

The hex watching the drifter causally open a small portal shooting sun beams at a tank using Wisp.

[tall echo]

Except all the protos are based on previously existing frames so not really

[graceful swan]

Protoframes weren’t first Albrecht brought Helminth into the past Warframes already existed

The only canonically first Warframe so far is Excalibur

[tender topaz]

Interestiiiiing

[scenic depot]

What is the net worth of parvos granum

[graceful swan]

Rich

[tender topaz]

Probably all of the corpus net worth

[strange turtle]

3 Billion Granum Crowns and a rubedo crystal

[north jolt]

Amir: "Why couldn't I be a wizard!"

[tender topaz]

You got a point

But would they also know what a sentient looks like? We explained how they do but there's always misinterpretation

And idk if the skins of the characters are cannon as to us pulling them out into the future

[lament stirrup]

"Hey Drifter, what are those robots made of bones that you keep using?"
"Sentients."
"How are you calling sentients?"
"My warframe is half sentient"
"Your warframe?"
"Yes."
"The warfrsme that channels void energy?"
"Yes."
"The void that poisons sentients and renders them infertile."
"Yes."
"How are they getting through the ceiling.?"
"Through the void."

[graceful swan]

We told them about many future stuff they can really see it how they want except Amir he sees the Orokin as misunderstood good people

[tender topaz]

Amir is special

[lament stirrup]

I
I don't think he does see them as good people.
He just thinks being a Cephalon has upsides.

[tender topaz]

He too kindhearted in a sense

[tender topaz]

Yeah I had to talk to him about it yesterday what ordis really is

[drifting mirage]

Amir sees cephalons as a way to fix his brain and it breaks my neurospicy heart.

[proper barn]

Hey amps are also made of sentients.

Cuz they are good Void conductors

[lament stirrup]

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that because its completely insane.

[proper barn]

Lmao

[proper barn]

THEY ARE GOOD CONDUCTORS Its why their so weak to it. It's like using tree monster for a torch.

Using a dead water elemental for your lighting spell type beat.

[north jolt]

Wait wut?

You mean we're just walking around with sentient guts strapped to our wrists?

[tender topaz]

LOL

[graceful swan]

And fish guts

Can’t forget the Fishing

[chilly iron]

I always thought they were more like bones, if that helps

But definitely fish guts are in there somewhere. Probably the straps.

[feral cape]

There is literally no way to actually determine this

Considering the grineers armor is made of a family of metals rather than any specific metal i can't tell you how powerful the armor is

40k suffers from being from long before time had a name and incredibly inconsistent powerscaling because of that

Also like depends in the marine chapter

Average of what chapter? Cause like some of them just use mind powers to block bullets

[lean garden]

Caiphus Cain has the most powerful armour in 40k: plot armour

CAI CAI CAIPHUS CAIN

[feral cape]

Just like batman

[feral cape]

Its not super impressive compared to other advanced science fictions like destiny 40k and i think mass effect has some insane stuff but I'd need a rain check

40k the necrons i belive have a map that just blows up stars

Because reasons

[lean garden]

or like those aliens from the last half of the third book of the Rememberance of Future Earth (the series which has the Three Body Problem)

[lean garden]

mass effect is only Reaper/Leviathan and Precursor tech

the rest is not excessively impressive

[silk atlas]

Warframe is like the Gojo of sci-fi video game power scaling, and that's not a complement.

[lean garden]

yowaimo

[feral cape]

What does this mean

[silk atlas]

People gas him up more than he deserves

[feral cape]

Probably

I mean limitless as an ability is cool the defense is out of this world

[lean garden]

but evidently not enough when you ahhpull

[silk atlas]

Lots of other people can ahhpull harder than Gojo without breaking a sweat

[feral cape]

Its probably in my top 10 favorite abilities in an anime and the other 9 are bleach

[chrome galleon]

whats the story order The Duviri paradox first or angels of the zariman first

[silk atlas]

Duviri Paradox happens during TNW timeline wise so just do it now.

[graceful swan]

Duviri connects with New War then Angels

[blissful merlin]

I’d do angels first personally. Same with new war. Do it before duviri. Stuff will connect a lot easier. It did for me when I did it like that lol

[proper barn]

Yes even the mote

[graceful swan]

Even the ones sold by LD?

[silk atlas]

Nothing about Angels talks about what's needed to understand Duviri though, just TNW

[graceful swan]

Duviri does namedrop Angels before AotZ

[slim mist]

Hey rq, don't remember if it got answered really even with the sacrifice quest showing that some warframes are sentient.

In terms of the Second Dream has your warframe moving on its own after being impaled actually been answered yet as to why it happened?

Part of me keeps thinking that if it hasn't been answered, that was possibly the first time we encounter Wally, him causing the warframe to move in order to save the operator so they can make good on the deal that was made.

[graceful swan]

Wally didn’t cause the frame to move on its own

It remains unanswered

[silk atlas]

Did it really?

Unless you mean the gamemode and not the quest

[slim mist]

Ye it did. In the new war drifter says something along the lines at some point of; "I should've stayed in Duviri..."

[chilly iron]

"If the Angels are allowed to break through, their Master will be freed"
I hear this in my sleep, Teshin

[slim mist]

But if it remains unanswered is it not possible that Wally intervened even a little bit? He is a creature of the void and possibly could have its own form of transference considering it has possessed people in the past. I'm not saying it is, but it could be possible.

[proper barn]

The orbs are made if Sentient bits so yes

[old kettle]

Transference itself was a crux of the void power we hone as Tenno. :]

||Before, we were stuck in transference and regained the ability to return to our bodies. 😉||

So from the beginning, think Matrix. xD

[silk atlas]

Wally has had no hand in influencing Warframes nor was he even so much as peeped about in that quest, so could is doing too much of the lifting there. It's just as likely that the Warframes have their own self preservation state.

[tall echo]

Wally was still being contained by rell at that time

[slim mist]

Wally was still contained by rell when we saw him first at the end of the War Within questline. And if Entrati's logs are to be believed he still had interactions with him during the start of the story to begin with.

[lean garden]

Entrati's logs would be predating rell's interactions with wally

[proper barn]

The logs on the Re-cap PC talk about rell

[lean garden]

And theres a major difference between us being momentarily possessed and a warframe

[proper barn]

Calls him "the sentinel"

[chrome galleon]

they's so many answers
one say to do the Duviri paradox first then angels of the zariman
The other say's to do angels of the zariman first then the Duviri paradox
so was the right answer

[lean garden]

Im talking about the entrati logs not the pom-2 logs

[proper barn]

Gotcha

[silk atlas]

Like I already said, Duviri then Angels. The stuff that gets mentioned in just the quest has nothing to do with AoTZ, so you're fine.

[slim mist]

That's the point of Duviri. It's a paradox.

There's no right answer for when to do it.

[silk atlas]

And if anything the question would be should you do Duviri or TNW first, since that was the point of Duviri's existence.

[old kettle]

I'm currently storywise on the Angels of the Zariman, at the void cascade, its kicking my butt though. Lots of running around and maintaining it. xD

[sudden cave]

new war first. 100% new war first. if you do duviri first it breaks the face reveal in tnw and turns it into nonsense

[old kettle]

If Duvari is the better choice to do first then Angels then Ill likely do that too. Wanted a break from that anyway.

[lament stirrup]

It doesnt break the face reveal, it recontextualizes it.

[sudden cave]

i mean in that you don't get your aged-up operator, afaik. you get the drifter as a completely separate character who doesn't necessarily resemble your operator at all. unless they changed that since moving it back?

besides, when in doubt go in release order

[silk atlas]

Oh that little gimmick. That's still the Drifter.

[chilly iron]

I did Duviri before anything, my enjoyment of the game and the story is still the same. Don't stress too much about it ^^

[silk atlas]

Just if you play Duviri first you have how your Drifter looks now, and so you're already familiar with the character before going into it, at the "cost" of wondering why the heck Teshin is in the cave.

[lament stirrup]

Did they change the second dream editor so thst the default operator is based off your Drifter?

[sudden cave]

yes, but you don't get that moment of "wait, what? it's me but older? how???"
you get "oh hey it's... that guy?"

[sudden cave]

don't think so

[lament stirrup]

I mean, you get a moment of "How did the Drifter get out of Duviri and why does Ordis think they're the Operator?"

[graceful swan]

The only difference between them is who’s this person vs oh it’s Drifter

[chilly iron]

I had a LOT of "who is this, is this the same person, who is THAT? What are they talking about" moments but it did eventually all click into place. Eventually.

[sudden cave]

personally i think the story is much stronger if the question is "wtf, i just saw my operator die but here's someone inexplicably alive and older and very clearly the same person" than if it's "i just saw my operator die and here's someone completely unrelated who looks totally different but ordis thinks they're the same person even though i know them from a different setting entirely"

also the table scene works much better with identical faces

[lament stirrup]

If you don't find "ordis thinks they're the same person even though I know them from a different setting" a compelling question then. Uh.
You may lack basic curiosity.

[sudden cave]

it's not that i don't find it a compelling question, it's that my first guess would be "ordis has something wrong with him/his memory, again" rather than "ordis thinks this is the operator, which is reasonable because they look exactly the same but older"

[graceful swan]

DE gave them the copy paste face as Operator and VA was the same but older so once they took the hood off you realised

[sudden cave]

and, again, it is supposed to be "the operator but older." that's why they did the aged-up-face thing-- yes

(tho actually i think the VAs are different but they're redoing the operator lines with the new VAs? idk, i don't follow that sort of thing)

[silk atlas]

Pretty sure they did revamp the Operator ones

[sudden cave]

personally i'd order it prelude -> new war -> duviri -> [angels + veilbreaker, either way] -> some narmer bounties -> whispers -> cavia syndicate -> lotus eaters -> hex

[restive river]

You forgot archon hunts

[sudden cave]

oh right

duviri -> bounties -> veilbreaker -> archon hunts -> angels -> whispers -> cavia -> netracells optionally -> lotus eaters -> hex, then

i forgot archon hunts because i don't do them, i got all my shards from netracells lol

i guess holdfasts after angels but they're kind of the weird one that doesn't quite fit anywhere yet

i still haven't ranked up with them tbh

[graceful swan]

They fit in with Angels

They actually used to be the easiest to rank up with until we got Cavia and then the Hex

[sudden cave]

yeah, but they don't really pay off with anything else, not like the cavia do for developing loid between whispers and hex, ykwim?

[lament stirrup]

The Holdfasts have character development at every rank up?
And Hombasks furniture store, the most important place in the game.

[sudden cave]

i mean i don't doubt they'll show up again in a future quest, they just haven't yet so it's harder to place them, narratively speaking

[graceful swan]

You literally cure them with each rank up lol

[lament stirrup]

Directly after the New War.
When the Zariman shows up.

[sudden cave]

you want a good balance between establishing characters and not letting the audience forget who you're talking about (coughTeshincough)

[chilly iron]

How do you forget Teshin???

[sudden cave]

because i never once did conclave so when the war within came out i was like "who???"

[chilly iron]

Grumpy Military Space Uncle
I don't pvp, I just thought he was someone Lotus got to train us XD

[sudden cave]

doing the quests as they came out, there were years in between my intro to teshin ("hey kid, wanna do some pvp?" "no" "k bye") and the next time he showed up in the story ("i am Very Disappointed in you" "you're not my real dad")

[graceful swan]

I just thought he was some random guy we hadn’t met yet when he first showed up in Natah

[sudden cave]

oh, i forgot he was in natah too

[silk atlas]

Yeah he's just some weirdo to anyone who hasn't done Conclave lol

[sudden cave]

i have a vivid memory of the moment in tww where he's got a sword under your chin and i was like "who are you and why do you think i care about your opinion"

or rather, "why do i care about your opinion" since the operator clearly does

y'ever think about how the operator lost their parents in a traumatic and violent way and therefore they try to cast any authority figure in a parental role and it makes them really easy to manipulate and psychologically vulnerable? cause i do

[chilly iron]

He showed up when Lotus went dark during the Hunhow thing so I vaguely remembered him

I dunno, it seemed like the Operator was a little snarky to Teshin. They adore their mother figure but Teshin not so much XD

[silk atlas]

Well they had Margulis before they had Lotus and Lotus didnt do anything actively bad until she was brainwashed so lucky them

[sudden cave]

yeah
good thing ballas wasn't very smart about people

then again if he was most of the plot wouldn't have happened

good thing ballas never pretended to care about the operator, i guess i should say

[chilly iron]

He tried to make us think he did, for a little bit there. It was creepy.

[woven coyote]

Some people actually bought into the veil lie which i find infinetely funny

[chilly iron]

Oh man, I have a bridge in Orb Vallis I could sell them X3

[woven coyote]

Sell them martian oasis jellyfish

[sly pagoda]

Ballas like the rest of the seven saw the Tenno/Operators merely as tools

then again that caste of the Orokin saw everybody not them merely as tools heh

[silk atlas]

I treat all of my subjects equally... poorly.

[sly pagoda]

Okay maybe not all were seen as mere tools, if you were exceptionally beautiful and their time was coming up they saw you as their future body.

Continuity will always remind me of the Spiritual Switchboard from a cheesy 1990s film called "Freejack".

[chilly iron]

Do you think identity theft was a thing in the Orokin Era? Like how do you really verify it is truly you?

[graceful swan]

They did more than Identify theft they literally had body markets

[silk atlas]

For the Orokin, there's a whole ceremony for Continuity so it's gonna be hard for someone who even just recently changed to be mistaken for someone else.

For the poor... eh, good luck.

[chilly iron]

But say you're a prominent whatever, mildly famous in your field. You get old, or bored, and get a new body. How do you verify with everyone that you're the new you?
Was it common for someone across the planet to be like "nah I'm totally John Orokin" and people would be like okay sure

[graceful swan]

They probably brought memory stuff with them to the new body

And the blue skin

Also it was only done in a ceremony so they would know

[chilly iron]

I guess I thought the ceremony was more a local thing so not everyone everywhere attended.
Not that anyone would have the brass to impersonate Ballas, but like a minor official. Go to some backwater (for the Orokin) pub and try and get some free drinks XD

[graceful swan]

Orokin probably never went anywhere near the locals for the most part

They would probably have a Dax with them if they were

So impersonation was probably harder than most would think

[chilly iron]

I would definitely the believe the punishment for something like that would be instant cephalon, no questions asked

[graceful swan]

Or Jade Light

[chilly iron]

Not something you would just risk, for sure

[graceful swan]

Most Orokin laws aren’t told to us we just know there’s 1000

[strange turtle]

Wait like the obvious hallucination from when the Drifter wore one?

[woven coyote]

Yup

I am talking players believing the "ballas always cared about us" lie the veil showed

[graceful swan]

Some even chose it willingly after it wasn’t the norm

[proper barn]

My idea I like is since orokin aren't like a race just a class and they look the way they do cuz they want to. I want like some conman or whatever to like pretend to a Orokin by just using their devices and stuff to look like them.

It would be so interesting.

[graceful swan]

Got you covered on that front

[proper barn]

Heheheheh

[restive river]

The guy from the styanax animation kinda reminds me of that ngl

The conman would def be a corpus in disguise since they already view themselves as the new orokin

[proper barn]

Sure

[graceful swan]

Parvos’s recent opinions and ideas sound pretty Orokin in nature

[proper barn]

RECENT?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

Sure there’s being a liar and stuff but I don’t think it was Orokin enough before

[limber pulsar]

his “i want to force the unworthy lower classes into eternal debt as they worship me” wasnt orokin enough for you?

[restive river]

lmao

[drifting mirage]

that sounds like capitalism.

[restive river]

So… the Corpus

[drifting mirage]

yes

[fathom ridge]

I have no context for anything, but I wish to know why this gorgeous individual possessed such ocean skin?

[broken perch]

When you max a Focus School, you can buy a colour palette item in the "represent" section that is otherwise locked.

Then you can paint your Operator as you will.

[restive river]

Refacia kit, you can get it from the representation shop after you complete a focus school.

You get a specific orokin skin palette

The feature was originally born from a bug where we could color our tenno any color we wanted, they patched it as it was unintentional and potentially problematic but the devs saw the community liked it conceptually and made it official though limited to a more canon palette

[feral cape]

Some measure of metaphysical detection ig

Also all the orokin make themselves blue and have long limbs probably hard to do as a regular fellow

[fathom ridge]

That's nice that we ended up getting more colour palettes after maxing out focus schools. It's like a little reward. Thanks for informing me!

[proper barn]

you can get it from any focus school being maxed out btw

doesn't need to be a specific one like the other represent rewards.

[native anvil]

When was the drifter shown wearing a veil?

[proper barn]

the new war?

you wear one for a little bit to get a ship.

[native anvil]

Yes but

Oh I don't remember that.

[proper barn]

like this happens at the fortuna bit

[native anvil]

Oh yeah I vaguely recall now I might need to replay it lol

[upbeat glacier]

You know Warframe is kinda like a school

The orokin are bullies

The tenno are bullied kids

When the bullied lash out against their bullies suddenly they're labeled as monsters

The more you know

[tall echo]

Who is calling the tenno monsters

[normal mountain]

The Sentients are the rival school...

[chrome rivet]

Can somebody remind me why did we go to 1999 and hunt down Albrect?

Trying to get answers about Wally since he was the one who made first contact?

[lean garden]

We went to 1999 to chase down albrecht

[chrome rivet]

Well yeah.
But why exactly?

[lean garden]

because we found his ahh in 1999 during whispers, and he told us we were late, so we resolved to go earlier to find out whats what

[chrome rivet]

That's it? I thought it's because he's the only person who got answers about Wally

[proper barn]

We also wanted to "complete the sequence"

What does that MEAN? IDK maybe making the vessels work

[lean garden]

Well, evidently we didnt go to find out more answers about wally because finding albrecht didnt even net us anything of the like

[proper barn]

That's seemingly what happens.

Is we complete the sequence.

[lean garden]

I'd argue its arming the chosen operator with the appropriate tools to fight wally

there's a reason why its named after his favourite kavat that he didnt sacrifice

[proper barn]

Sure the vessels weren't complete though.

Also kalymos has gotta talk there's no way.

Also the thing that actually helped us the most is kalymos.

[restive river]

We did find out some stuff about Wally but that was from Wally, not Albrecht :p

[quartz sky]

Because Albrecht wanted to make a time loop to stop Wally from following him

But for "the sequence to be complete" it needed to resolve into a separate timeline

My theory is that combining two separate versions (like drifter/operator) makes a very powerful singularity that can stand toe to toe with Wally and void powers

And he's trying to recreate what we did incidentally, but with multiple people. Using us as the third party to connect the versions of the hex that died and the ones that continued living

But if not just the hex, if the explosion happened before Albrechts intrusion, then that's a HUGE singularity to us against wally

[woeful nest]

Are there still Sentients waiting on Tau? One's still able to reproduce?

[lean garden]

most likely

[woeful nest]

...How many? Like, if you had to guess

[lean garden]

many

[woeful nest]

I don't know if I should be scared by that or excited

Wonder if they've tried to breed out their void weakness. 'Breed' in big, bright, shiny air quotes since I... don't understand how Sentients reproduce

Do they just build more like normal robots or... do they do it organically

[lean garden]

that was the amalgam project

[woeful nest]

...Ngl I kinda don't know anything about the amalgam project, what was it's purpose

And why'd they have Alad of all people lead it

[lean garden]

He got scammed into it

[lean garden]

to resolve sentient weakness

[woeful nest]

Ahh okay

[sudden cave]

they got drunk and threw darts at a book of mugshots

at this point there's no other possible explanation for why anyone would work with alad "i always pick the worst option and it always ends badly for me" v

[woeful nest]

Are we sure he isn't an Orokin?

Since he always chooses the E option on every A through D question-

[sudden cave]

although i think the real story is he was like "oooh i could play with sentient guts!" and the sentients were like "ha ha no, what do you think of this gun to your head"

amalgam alad v: who could possibly have predicted this!?
zanuka:
mesa:
the infested:
amalgam alad v: it's a complete mystery!

[lament stirrup]

I'm faintly convinced Lotus/Natah thought (correctly) he was the only person equal parts stupid and brilliant enough to think "Hybrid sentient-humans" was in any way a reasonable product strategy.

[normal mountain]

At least he had some sense of 'something is wrong' when the mimic impersonating his friend didn't hesitate in signing a horribly manipulative contract

[sly pagoda]

Alad-V like the Orokin suffers from IN-Gen or Umbrella Corp syndrome. "What could go wrong if we do this science with no guard rails?".

[quartz sky]

"...again!"

[woeful nest]

The Orokin just do it like that on purpose, not because of the plot needing them to lol

[viscid aspen]

Do we know when Loid went to sleep? Bc I was reading Dante's wiki page and this dialogue suggests Dante died during the Orokin era, which means Loid was already asleep, which means the opening of WITW with Albrecht travelling back to 1999 happens millenia ago which means Albrecht, from our point of view, has been in the past for centuries if not more

[proper barn]

yeah

did you not know that? i thought we knew that lmao.

[viscid aspen]

Idk but i just discovered that 😭

I thought Albrecht had gone to '99 like...recently

[restive river]

He went during the old war.

Like Loid even mentions that fact, though not by name ofc cause it wasn’t known as the old war when he was awake

Loid: "A Tenno? A deserter, presumably? Is it not aware there's a war going on? [pause, sigh] So. The war, too, is just a memory now."

[north ferry]

'it' ooh damn

[viscid aspen]

Ohhhhhhh damn youre right

I'd forgotten about that line

Now his "Tau is in sight" line makes more sense, hes still got that orokin mentality

[restive river]

Replaying quests, watching people replay quests and using the Orokin Archives helps a lot

I’ve had multiple friends catch up and I’ve been there for most of their playthroughs
It helps a lot

[viscid aspen]

I wish my friends liked Warframe

[restive river]

I bugged my friends for years about it and some of them finally cracked

It helps the game has been getting better and better ngl

[proper barn]

since like 2020

it's been on a GRANDOUS rise

[upbeat glacier]

Here's a question

Why did the sentients not invade Deimos

[glacial bough]

In New War or Old War

[upbeat glacier]

New war

[glacial bough]

Deimos wasn't in the system

[upbeat glacier]

Also I saw something interesting

So do you know the black mud stuff that appears in 1999 that you pull the hex out of

It's in the sentient warships

[proper barn]

DE re-uses assets often

So don't read too much into it.

[upbeat glacier]

I am wondering if the indifference is also fueling sentient aggression

[glacial bough]

No

[main crane]

I don't think so

[upbeat glacier]

I feel like besides asset reuse there's a lore reason

[main crane]

The Sentients have a different agenda

[misty roost]

Albrecht did mention Tau, and according to a KIM with Eleanor, bro actually wants to go to Tau. and we know Tau is full of Sentients...

[main crane]

It's his escape from the Indifference

[upbeat glacier]

Is it possible that the indifference is the reason sentients have their goal, because it instilled the fear?

[glacial bough]

No

[upbeat glacier]

Who's to say the sentients haven't encountered Wally themselves

[glacial bough]

The main fact they die in the Void

[upbeat glacier]

They went through it once

To get to Tau

[main crane]

Yeah. Their weakness is the void.

[glacial bough]

And the one and only time they would've been in it was long after the Old War had started

[upbeat glacier]

Honestly the indifference is beyond Eldritch

[main crane]

They had gone sterile because of the Void which prevented them from reproducing.

[glacial bough]

Lotus is the one exception due to getting captured and there's a lot of weird around that

[misty roost]

I don't think he can escape it, is he stupid?

[upbeat glacier]

Also Duviri is super confusing

Is it in the past???? Is it the future??? Or is it the afterlife?

Considering teshin and orokin are in Duviri

[main crane]

Ngl he's been doing all sorts of crap just to escape Wally. From creating the Vessels to creating a time-loop in Höllvania and the Indifference just keeps on messing up with him.

[main crane]

It's a storybook

Created by Conceptual Embodiment

[upbeat glacier]

Also the scary part about the indifference is it could snap it's fingers and take away our powers

But doesn't because it enjoys the game

[glacial bough]

Duviri is an entirely separate plane, timeline doesn't apply there

[main crane]

I believe it was Archimedean Euleria who wrote it, became the favorite book of the kids in the Zariman. In an alternate timeline, our Tenno refused Wally's hand, and became the Drifter. To escape the horrors of the Zariman, his emotions created Duviri within the void.

[glacial bough]

No, Drifter took the deal

The difference is he got tricked and left behind

[main crane]

Ohh. The wiki is sometimes confusing lol

[upbeat glacier]

One question me and my clan had once is

Can tenno have children

I say no because the void probably sterilized them

[misty roost]

they're split timelines. not only that, but the Zariman found in Duviri is connected to, but not the Zariman found in the star chart. Note how we can see its front in both versions. But we presumably go to one to get to the other.

[glacial bough]

Unknown, and will never have an answer

[upbeat glacier]

Also I'm still confused about the sheogorath mission

Was the ship we were chasing actually a ghost

Or was it stuck in a time loop

[misty roost]

Sheogorath is Skyrim

[lean garden]

No timeloops in call of the Tempestarii

[misty roost]

Sevagoth, however, to my knowledge was just chasing a ghost

[lean garden]

Youre just chasing a railjack thats been active for a very very very very very long time

[main crane]

Maybe he meant Sevagoth. He's referring to the Call of Tempestarii.

(Sorry my internet is bad)

[misty roost]

yeah I was just giving him a hard time lol
but the idea of a Skyrim crossover is funny

[upbeat glacier]

Sorry

But yeah is that ship a real ship, a ghost, or stuck in a time loop until it completes its mission

[main crane]

It's real

[upbeat glacier]

But why does it vanish after

[main crane]

It's just referred to as a "Ghost Ship" because it was once lost in the void for eons.

[main crane]

Every railjack can void jump

[upbeat glacier]

I know but where did it go, who's controlling it, etc

[main crane]

Wait... Haven't you finished it yet? Wouldn't this would be a spoiler for you?

[upbeat glacier]

I finished it

[main crane]

(Ok why is my English suddenly bad?)

[upbeat glacier]

I just did it a long time ago

[main crane]

Sevagoth's ghost pilots it. Its final mission is to find the missing body of Sevagoth himself.

[upbeat glacier]

And with the new quests I wonder if it's more changed to accommodate

[lean garden]

Nope, no changes in call of the tempestarii

[upbeat glacier]

Also I'm so glad void jumping isn't like hyperspace

Because otherwise I would have died slamming into a ship lol

[main crane]

Travelling in hyperspace won't do that to you because your ship is only bending time and space outside your ship. So you're basically travelling at normal speed while on the outside, you're travelling beyond light-speed. It's like void jump but without messing up with the Void and potentially summoning the Indifference to turn you into soup.

[upbeat glacier]

Oh

Also joking but that's cool

Also I realized there's a dragon in the void that gave me a minor heart attack lol

[main crane]

A what now? You mean an Orowyrm (I hope you get the reference)

[upbeat glacier]

I call them dragons

And yes

I had a heart attack when I first saw it because it jump scared me

[tall echo]

They always appear in the loading "screen" for void storms

[tall echo]

They aren't dragons

[main crane]

It's a KIM reference

I forgot who called them dragons but Drifter refered the Oriwyrms to be the dragons in Duviri

[fathom ridge]

I think either Aoi or Eleanor called them dragons.

[tall echo]

I don't think it is

[main crane]

It is. One of the Hex members stated asked the Drifter if he believes in dragons. Drifter refered to the Orowyrms he has slain as dragons. I think it was Aoi who asked him that.

[tall echo]

Didn't seem like musashi picked up on your reference

[humble sierra]

I mean, ultimately they are meant to be dragons in a fairy tale. Just like how Teshin is a wizard.

[fresh garnet]

Wait teshin is a wizard?

[lean garden]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-ben-kenobi-hello-there-hi-hello-gif-4968175

^ literally teshin

[fathom ridge]

He's totally a wizard in Duviri at this point.

[strange turtle]

He’s the cool gandalf type of wizard that can use a sword

[visual ermine]

It’s pretty clear-cut yeah. They’re called dragons within the context of Duviri narration itself. The name means “gold dragon”. Dragon myth is heavily built on figures like Fafnir who turned into a wyrm from his greed.

[arctic geyser]

Big can of orowyrms.

[devout verge]

Also, despite what some nerds say, outside of heraldry, terms like worm, wyrm, wyvern, drake, and dragon have been used largely interchangeable.

Like, look up some images of Saint George and the Dragon. They go from two wings + four legs all the way to "that just looks like a mean dog".

Anything can be a dragon, if it has the right publicity manager.

[visual ermine]

Aye, that's cultural synchronism for ya. Not really that differentiated from just "monster" if you go back far enough.

[old dome]

...how can operator/tenno sense whats going on in duviri?? also who are the emotions npcs exactly??

bc i was doing sythel's spiral & she screamed "WHY ARE YOUR EYES LIKE THAT?!" so im. hmmm

[hexed oxide]

the emotion npc's, the courtiers, im pretty sure are characters from the book just as dominus thrax is, the other question idk. my guess is drifter just knows it since it's their kingdom and they relay that info to operator

[chilly iron]

There are creepy children with black eyes and rictus grins in Duviri, I thought she might have been talking about them. The Man in the Wall has tried to break into Duviri before

[old dome]

the things the npcs during their respective spirals just make me go hm bc i feel like theres smth else going on than what the drifter knows or did...

[hexed oxide]

most likely, the man in the wall is trying to break into duviri hard

[old dome]

like the eyes voiceline, the fact that sythel clearly knows who wally is (unless she meant someone else w that "the undercroft portals are close to... to HIM" line),, theres probably other instances in the other spirals

[old dome]

but why tho...??

is it bc of the drifter??

[hexed oxide]

wouldn't you like to know ?

we don't know : )

that's the answer for most man in the wall related things

[chilly iron]

We would love to know its motives, but we don't x3

[old dome]

ok true

[graceful swan]

Well if you saw a Kingdom show up in your home wouldn’t you want a piece?

[old dome]

i would wanna know why & how it exists...

[silk atlas]

They ain't paying rent

[hexed oxide]

i think he's more than capable than making an entire continent by himself, or whatever the hell is going on in albrecht's labs

[chilly iron]

Well the why is Duviri was a defense mechanism made by the Drifters mind

[graceful swan]

Wally wasn’t paying rent either for our Orbiter

[silk atlas]

We already know the why and how, the entire explanation was Conceptual Embodiment. Drifter coped too hard on the Zariman and that plus Void energy slopped that monster out.

[old dome]

yeah but does wally know any of this??

[silk atlas]

So imagine just some moody man showing up in your basement and making it far larger and more luxurious than before without your knowledge lmao

[old dome]

...we dont know

[graceful swan]

Wally literally shows up in Duviri multiple times

[chilly iron]

It knows the nature of the Void better than we do, since it is an entity of the void. I'm sure it knows all about Duviri

It just can't wholly break in

[old dome]

he does?? huh... i need to do duviri more often then

[graceful swan]

Vagabond is Wally

[chilly iron]

We think. We're pretty sure.

[old dome]

btw i dont know any of the npcs other than sythel & the jester guy

[lament stirrup]

The Vagabond is bare minimum possessed by Wally, given the missing finger and maniacal laughter.

[graceful swan]

Plus in a class there was black eyed children and then there was the lighthouse incident

[restive river]

Nah its def him
The laugh
The disappearing
The missing finger
Even his eyes

[graceful swan]

The tablets

[restive river]

Vagabound do be Wally

[chilly iron]

Think of it like you growing up on Mother Goose stories. Then you're left all alone in a scary place as a child and to cope you make up a world where they all live and you live there too.
All the emotion characters in Duviri are parables to teach children how to regulate their emotions.

[graceful swan]

Vagabond placed all the tablets one of which mentions a deal

[restive river]

I think it’s notable that the Vagabound’s style of mask is also found in the netracell, though that could have also just been the type of mask Albrecht was given while he was there

[graceful swan]

Vagabond even goes over Albrechts grave

[restive river]

Wait really :?
where’s it stated he did that :O

[restive river]

Funny how that completely backfired lmao
Typical Orokin moment

[graceful swan]

You see Vagabond at many tablets

[restive river]

I think its more an assumption then, a reasonable one but an assumption none the less

[graceful swan]

This is the deal I mean
29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

Drifters deal

[chilly iron]

Well it saved little Drifter, so it kinda worked. But it is kinda sus that they knew the Void could do this and their best idea is to... teach children to not emotion too hard. Instead of, you know, NOT SENDING KIDS THROUGH THE VOID

[restive river]

Yeah the Orokin are dumb
And yes it did sorta save the Drifter to a point, Duviri is one of the safest places like. Ever, and that’s saying something :p

[graceful swan]

Considering Vagabod shows up at multiple tablets it’s probably the most likely scenario that Vagabond is the one placing them

[restive river]

Like it’s still dangerous but the Drifter was taken care of for a time

[hexed oxide]

me omw to have an orwellian tyrant and be executed 24/7

[restive river]

I agree
I’m just saying it is an assumption as there’s no confirmation, a good assumption but still just that

[chilly iron]

Well they used to be friends, Thrax got mean as Drifter grew up and stopped needing him

As children who can't grow up might do

[graceful swan]

I still think a lot of the dating dialogue isn’t full canon

[restive river]

Yeah, Duviri slowly stopped being a safer place for the Drifter

[restive river]

Dubiously canon

Though Thrax and Drifter being friends aligns with Duviri’s story

[chilly iron]

I think you're right and some details can just be player specific canon. Like the existence of a sibling.

[graceful swan]

Some stuff that’s said seems to be stuff Operator would know but is still stuff Drifter never even went through to know

[chilly iron]

I bet Ordis gave Drifter an over-detailed info dump

Nothing else to do between missions

[main crane]

Most probably since he also claimed that Ordis is his best friend

[graceful swan]

We could’ve had the info given like the Hunhow thing but no real answer to how

[restive river]

They were the same person up to a certain point

[tall echo]

And now they are again

[chilly iron]

Ordis is the only other person Drifter could hang out with, after leaving Duviri.
(Poor Drifter)
Until Kahl.

[hexed oxide]

ok but why's my drifter a woman and my operator's a guy ?

[restive river]

Yesn’t

[restive river]

Trans health care is free in Duviri

[chilly iron]

Cause you picked it. XD

[restive river]

Like the Drifter said
Gender is a construct

Also yeah you did decide that and ultimately the presentation of your Tenno is up to you

[tall echo]

Wibby wobbley timey wimey void magic bippity boppity boo

[chilly iron]

In an era where bodies are optional, gender is the least problematic thing anymore

[graceful swan]

Yeah but one message I can think of is the Moon he mentions like he was in Duviri the whole time that would’ve been going on

[main crane]

Eternalism. It's like a multiverse shenanigan. Either you grew up trans, or your parents gave birth to you as a male/female and grew up as the now person in either timelines.

[hexed oxide]

i already used the pair of lokis the TVA had to justify my drifter and operator

[main crane]

The multiverse exists in Warframe

[limber pulsar]

nothing to do with eternalism

[restive river]

Except the Drifter and Operator were literally the same person at one point in time, their history was the same up to a point.

[main crane]

Ok that makes sense

[chilly iron]

I don't know if I can strongly recommend reading the Wikipedia page on Eternalism, because it's still a hecking twisty concept, but it did help me.

[hexed oxide]

is it the same as the warframe theory ?

[chilly iron]

Oh yeah, Eternalism is Eternalism

[restive river]

Warframe’s has a slight twist to it iirc

[feral cape]

Its the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics and just eternalism

[restive river]

^

[chilly iron]

It's a real theory for how time works, but most scientists are like "no stop it, time is not a cube this is for science fiction" XD

[tall echo]

Warframe adds/prioritizes multiverse

[feral cape]

Eternalism isn't a cosmology model so de just mashed one in there for good luck

[limber pulsar]

eternalism is only used to explain how drifter and operator can coexist and little things like the baro crossplatform. people massively overstress its importance as a big multiversal thing when its really not

[feral cape]

That too

[main crane]

Warframe does have a multiverse as Onkko explains how Amps are different across the multiverse.

[graceful swan]

I heard DE got Eternalism wrong which is why it confuses people

[hexed oxide]

how does onkko work ?

[feral cape]

He sees the infinite poetry of cause and effect

[tall echo]

Yes, but regular eternalism does not

[tall echo]

He got time lord vision but more

All quills seem to

[graceful swan]

Doesn’t both Onkko and Unum see the future

[silk atlas]

And all possibilities

That's why he faked his death and the Quill operative in PT heist dies.

[graceful swan]

Would’ve been quite handy in TNW tbh lol

[tall echo]

They made a necessary sacrifice

[silk atlas]

LD mentions they're uptight with the idea and don't just share it willy nilly

[tall echo]

Their job is to make sure we follow the best possible timeline

[graceful swan]

Does she still think he’s dead?

[tall echo]

Yes

[chilly iron]

She does...

If I remember correctly, Onkko asks us not to tell her

[graceful swan]

I’m gonna tell her

[tall echo]

He also asks us not to ask him about the singular aspects of his life

[safe nebula]

"The best possible timeline" sounds like a very arbitrary and subjective thing lol..

[tall echo]

The quills don't see things subjectively

[safe nebula]

How do you objectively determine the best timeline tho :p

[graceful swan]

I wonder if Onkko knows about Duviri

[tall echo]

The two we encounter both made significant sacrifices because it's necessary

[tall echo]

By seeing all of time at once

[main crane]

Speaking of the Quills, I wonder what happened to Mitsuki.

[safe nebula]

It's still only the best timeline for something or someone

Making it intrinsicly subjective

[tall echo]

A perfect timeline doesn't exist

[safe nebula]

Never said it does lol

[chilly iron]

I have a side question that was bugging me last night and imma ask before I forget again.
Albrecht is obsessed with getting to Tau... why?
The other Sentients still live there right? They wouldn't exactly be happy about a single Orokin dude busting in.

[tall echo]

He's orokin

[graceful swan]

I wonder if Onkko knows about Duviri

[chilly iron]

Would it matter if he did?

[tall echo]

Going to tau was still the goal when albrecht went to 1999 permanently

[safe nebula]

The whole getting to the Tau system was the main focus of the entire Orokin scientific effort ever since they came to know you theoretically could

[graceful swan]

Yes

[chilly iron]

But Albrecht knows the Orokin are gone... right? What could he even accomplish?

[tall echo]

Definitely

[tall echo]

He left during the old war

[main crane]

Didn't he go to 1999 during the Old War?

[chilly iron]

Oh dude... so he really doesn't know everything he knew is gone except Loid and the Cavia...

[tall echo]

The quills sacrifice what is necessary to ensure the optimal timeline for the majority of the universe.

[safe nebula]

Then again, Big A is a scientist and getting to Tau would be a huge scientific achievement

[tall echo]

Including their own lives

[main crane]

I have a question actually. Does he go back and forth from 1999 to Old War Era since he used the Protoframe strains from Arthur and other Hex members to create the unfinished Vessels that were supposed to fight the Indifference?

[graceful swan]

Does Albrecht know there’s a Tenno and Drifter? or does he just see them as the same

[safe nebula]

Why would he go back and forth for it?

[main crane]

Maybe I am tripping

[tall echo]

He used to before the cutscene with loid smashing his time machine

[silk atlas]

He had a log about Drifter because Duviri, so he'd know there's the two. No clue about now that they merged.

[chilly iron]

His computer seems to know the difference, and Albrecht went to Duviri

[safe nebula]

As I understood it, he brought the strain with him

[limber pulsar]

mainfest destiny is a heck of a drug

[main crane]

Ok I'm not tripping

[tall echo]

He made the vessels using samples from the hex

[chilly iron]

Albrecht had a lab on an island in Duviri, but it's gone and the island disappeared

[main crane]

He brought Helminth strains to the past, combined it with the Techrot, gave it to the Hex and turned them into Protoframes, then collected the Protoframe strains back to the present to create the Vessels which were unfinished.

[safe nebula]

I have completely missed this vessel thing

Where was this explained?

[feral cape]

His notes

[chilly iron]

Albrecht Notes

[tall echo]

Fragments dropped by the optional bosses in the lab tileset

[chilly iron]

All this was still during the Old War, yes?

[main crane]

Yeah old war

[safe nebula]

Aaah, gotcha. Makes sense why I would've missed them lol

[main crane]

Not the actual present day

[tall echo]

Only combined it with rot through the hex

[main crane]

Oh

[chilly iron]

The Vessels have been sitting and collecting dust for a long time, and the Kalymos Sequence was waiting all that time.

[safe nebula]

So the Hex already had the rot and he slapped them with a dose of Helminth on top?

[chilly iron]

Damn

Yes

[tall echo]

And apparently he just knew how to cure people afflicted with techrot

[main crane]

Ok that makes more sense

[safe nebula]

Then extracted fancy Helminth rot juice from the poor people

[main crane]

Ahh yes. People doing things for science.

[chilly iron]

Well he said he could cure them. That may have been a cover. Lettie said they just spread it further

Their symptoms were suppressed but they continued to infect others

[safe nebula]

WF lore is dark enough to give 40k some competition lol

[main crane]

Isn't the Indifference weakened by love? What if we just defeat him with the power of friendship?

[tall echo]

Lettie doesn't know the truth and she'd be biased against albrecht

[main crane]

(I'm joking btw)

[chilly iron]

Valid

[tall echo]

That is the point of 1999

[chilly iron]

But she is a medic, i trusted her on that

[limber pulsar]

it was a ‘cure’ that really just left it mostly stable by having two seperate kinds of infestation inside instead of getting rid of the problem. to limited success as with eleanor

[main crane]

I mean technically yes. You just made me realize that.

[limber pulsar]

that was the point of witw too

[tall echo]

He cured people and offered to enhance volunteers

[main crane]

Yeah. When the Drifter used his Transference on a Vessel, he showed the same love Loid missed from Albrecht which stopped the Murmur from further invading the sanctum.

[chilly iron]

That was because Wall Man was using Loids angst as an emotional catalyst to break in, right?

[limber pulsar]

the two main story arcs of warframe are “confronting your abusive stepdad” and “embracing the horrors of the universe with love”

[safe nebula]

So here's a question... Since in the "good ending" for 1999 the nuke doesn't go off, why does the time loop persist? Or is the Drifter simply not in control of their loop power and so once activated, they remain activate perpetually

[chilly iron]

We're standing guard over the year to make sure Wall doesn't try anything

[lament stirrup]

They're using it to keep the Man In The Wall out.

[chilly iron]

and Drifter probably really likes spending time there

[main crane]

Tbh, our Drifter has been lonely for centuries. Not even lonely. Just heavily messed up in Duviri.

[restive river]

I mean they were lonely

[main crane]

Bro forgot all the emotions until the Lotus' hand fell to Duviri and changed the course of his story.

[restive river]

The duvirians don’t exactly make good company

[restive river]

Don’t forget about Teshin
He was a big help too

Space mom and space uncle helped our alt self feel again :>

[main crane]

Oh right yeah. Also in one dialogue line, Drifter said he still occasionally goes to Duviri because he didn't want to leave Teshin who's stuck in the Voud.

Void

[restive river]

Can you quote that exactly perchance :?

[main crane]

Wish I could but I chose to reset the timeline after New Year

[tall echo]

It's a KIM message

[restive river]

I mean I figured it was a KIM message

Unfortunately our computer doesn’t get to remember if we click forget 😔

[chilly iron]

The Orokin Archives are still getting 1999 on their site, aren't they? It looks kinda sparse post-Lotus-Eaters

[tall echo]

It's a lot of work

[restive river]

There’s over 17k words iirc

[chilly iron]

Oh no, I understand it's... mountains of text. I appreciate everything they do, I was just curious about the progress.

[graceful swan]

The dating thing has 140k+

[restive river]

We love Gray :)

[chilly iron]

Is there anything we can do to help? It's a valuable repository, but labors of love are still labor.

[graceful swan]

Being in his server is the best way to get info on new stuff

And yeah sending hex chats in his server helps

[restive river]

^^^

[chilly iron]

Gotcha, and thank you! I'll try and do my part XD

[lament stirrup]

No offense, but. Does Gray not know someone already datamined and dumped all the Hex chats on the Kimacrulum site?

[graceful swan]

He knows about the site

[lament stirrup]

V_V

[normal mountain]

Don't think they're all there
I found a dead end in one of the Kim chats on the site
Sadly, don't remember which one it was
But it was a very specific chat pathway

[feral cape]

He still has to hand type

And organize them

[iron pond]

I wonder if they will make christopher as a protoframe