lore-discussion

[north ferry]

Counter point, Kalymos. But oh yeah that 1999 spoiler bit is also confusing and hey maybe is suppose to be.

[smoky solstice]

he still pushes the same thing as he always did

it only changes at the very end when we push back

[north jolt]

Have we even seen Kalymos and Entrati post-bike crash in the same space together? like after the teleportation?

[smoky solstice]

so whether it's entrati or not, it seemed like pushing us to just nuke the place was always the plan to get us to push back

so I don't think a swap really makes a lot of sense, unless maybe the real entrati was doing this unintentionally?

[north ferry]

I don't think we see him and Kalymos together at all that quest.

[smoky solstice]

but that would just seem like dumb writing lol

[smoky solstice]

except in the tank hole, yeah

or maybe if you count entrati on the computer screen with kalymos chilling on the side

[north jolt]

I legitimately don't remember

[north ferry]

Lol

[hexed oxide]

Nah they weren't together as much as other appearances

[smoky solstice]

we don't see him and kalymos together even pre-bike crash to be clear, they're never together in the quest, except for the tank hole, where it seems unlikely that it's the actual entrati

[hexed oxide]

Though kalymos does try to help you find him or his clues

[north jolt]

Also Kalymos being smarter then she is letting on I think is a given at this point. But that thing she does during capture missions gives me void shennanigan vibes, not sure what to really make of that (and the 4th wall break during the end of the 1999 trailer/demo thing we play during Whispers)

[north ferry]

Also, I would like to know what 'manipulations' the man in the wall has actually done? Like he's a relatively direct actor as I cs recall.

[smoky solstice]

I mean he did manipulate us into making the deal with him

[north ferry]

Also the implication that Albercht did wonky things with her in Loid rank 5 Cavia lines.

[smoky solstice]

pretty big one there

[hexed oxide]

Wasn't kalymos experimented on/augmented by albrecht ? I know she was sick and albrecht did smth to heal her (or just made a clone when the og died)

[north jolt]

I dont think its ever explicitly stated but sorta implied he either experimented on her or did some straight up Pet Semetary stuff

[north ferry]

That's not exactly a manipulation, it's still pretty direct. But the things like all of Ballas' actions, Harrow quest, Zariman, Duviri, Whispers aren't really things we can say happened only because of manipulation.

[chilly iron]

He might have done whatever Loid did with the Cavia

[north jolt]

Exposed her to the void ?

[north ferry]

Stuff her full of murmurs

[north jolt]

Strike a deal with Wally to bring her back? /jkg

[north ferry]

Or indeed, Kalymos is Albercht and the body we see is like a projection.

Don't mind me, stupid ideas are fun.

[chilly iron]

That's way off the rails, keep cooking

[smoky solstice]

well, he put the kids in a position where they're forced to make the deal, keeping in mind that he is the void, he's the guy making all the adults crazy, he set in place the entire plot of warframe that way since it directly led to the end of the orokin empire

[chilly iron]

Is he the Void though... or just an entity in it

[smoky solstice]

I mean he, by giving the tenno those powers, ended an empire which he hated, that at least seems he's capable of using us for his own ends and is quite calculated

[north jolt]

I think its a "both" kind of situation.

[north ferry]

If that's the case I will say that's an incredible terrible narrative choice on par with Somehow Palpatine Returned.

[smoky solstice]

I mean he refers to the Orokin using the void as using his uh... forgot the exact line but you get the idea, essentially taking stuff from him

[north jolt]

Far as we can tell, I don't think he's quite as able or easily to use the Drifter for similar means (hence why it had to be the Drifter who went back to 1999)

[smoky solstice]

it seems like the void is an entity to some extent at least

[north ferry]

That's really hard to say he explicitly causes the Zariman incident specifically to have all the dominos occur. Removing any and all character agency through story we see and don't see.

[limber pulsar]

the orokin do specifically get most of their void tech with the literal severed fingers of wally, so its still unclear

[north jolt]

Tbh I think we've been seeing signs of Wally becoming more and more, at least emotionally and psychologically manipulative for a while now. He never straight up forces anyone to take a deal, technically speaking but knows how to manufacture the right circumstances for them to be most likely to do so

[chilly iron]

I do remember the stolen gifts vs ours "freely given"
But it was so cryptic I didn't want to ascribe it to any one particular thing.

[north jolt]

The kids on the Zarimen as an example, like he TECHNICALLY didn't force us to make a deal with him, but given the circumstances both physically and mentally we were under at that time, why wouldn't we accept the offer to save our own and other's lives?

What about convincing us to release Rell from Harrow, and consequentially him as well?

[chilly iron]

Wouldn't it just be beef with Albrecht if it was just the fingers? Does it mean something else, like Kuva, but how would they have stolen it?
I couldn't be sure so I decided to not pin it down to anything and let it float out there until it was more defined

[smoky solstice]

well I didn't say he caused the Zariman incident but I also feel like the whole adults going crazy and attacking the kids thing wasn't outside of his control to stop or at least help with, I just find it interesting he chose to help us by giving us vast power, which, after the Orokin did what the Orokin do, we then used to end the empire

seems to line up quite well with his goals

[north jolt]

Also gods do be pretty petty and spiteful sometimes

[smoky solstice]

well I think it implies just the general orokin utilization of the void for their own means

[glacial bough]

That was him forcing the situation to only one option, not a manipulation

[smoky solstice]

and I think kuva does go into that

[north jolt]

...Okay tbh I think thats just really pedantic

[limber pulsar]

all of the orokin were using the fingers

[north jolt]

Like if you manufactured a situation where someone you're targeting is likely to choose 1 outcome that you just happen to desire, I think that pretty much counts as some kind of manipulationn

[chilly iron]

They did yes, but why not just be mad at the person who took them in the first place

[north ferry]

Whatever

[smoky solstice]

nah it definitely does, and even if it doesn't, we can still say that if we get emotional and help the Hex and that lines up with some goal of the Indifference we're not aware of so far, it's the same thing

but I mean all of this is just speculation so far regardless

[north jolt]

Of course tbh, especially if we assume that the writers at DE actually read and pay attention to fan theories and speculations, depending how much they already planned ahead they could just be setting up to throw us for a total curveball

[smoky solstice]

it's just an interesting thing to think about

[north ferry]

My point is, reducing stuff to 'Wally made everything happen' really flattens the narrative.

[normal mountain]

Idk, I'd be pretty pissed off if a bunch of people took my severed digits and started playing with them like toys

[north jolt]

Incredibly rude, one could say

[smoky solstice]

yeah the only thing is that the ending was so nice for the hex quest, it's reaaally hard to pull this off in a way that doesn't feel like it spits on the face of the general fanbase, especially since I would guess most people playing through don't go too hard on the speculation and fan theories and therefore it might just feel completely out of left field

[normal mountain]

Exactly

[north ferry]

It's the Orokin, being pissed of at them is the natural state of being.

[smoky solstice]

it's very easy for a twist like that to just feel annoying due to the fact that you really like the pleasant ending of the hex quest

[normal mountain]

Even the Orokin were pissed off at the Orokin

[north ferry]

I absolutely assume, for all that I get really really annoyed at DE writing, is they're not going to turn around and pull the rug out like that.

[north jolt]

I already did this with the "Abrecht hiding in Kalymos's body" theory ages ago so where I go again throwing out another silly theory: We end up siding with Wally AND saving the Hex by throwing Albrecht under the bus because TBH what has he actually done for us (the tenno/drifter) so far in the story?

[chilly iron]

Valid, valid, I concede

[smoky solstice]

lmao I've seen the wally good guy theory and it definitely feels like it's not going there

[north ferry]

... that is a terrible theory lol

[north jolt]

Probably not, but Albrecht is kind of a jerk even with his desire to stop Wally

[north jolt]

I just said it was a silly theory, not that it was a good one 😛

[north ferry]

Albrecht is a jerk, but Wally is a monstrosity.

Man, I just want to deal with the simplicity of Sentients again.

[north jolt]

Also even Tagfur wants a chance at Albrecht. I doubt that will ever go anywhere in the story, but its a detail I figured Id bring up

[smoky solstice]

he's an orokin, it's only natural, but I mean while we don't know too much about wally and it does leave a lot of things open, everything seems to point in the complete opposite direction and it's really missing that aspect where it feels like some part of the game is pushing towards that direction, like where if it does end up going there, you can look back and think "oh yeah, the story's been building there all along actually if you think about it, that's cool"

most we have is the indifference monologue about the orokin screwing everything up but that's it

[north ferry]

Look, Loid loves the guy but even he isn't particularly positive on him.

[chilly iron]

I would absolutely hand Albrecht to Tagfer, it's only fair

[north jolt]

Yeah, silly theory aside I honestly don't know where exactly the game's narrative is actually pushing us right now. I'm not even sure if we'll truly stop Wally entirely because, how would that effect our void powers? would it effect our void powers?

[north ferry]

Honestly the whole Wally monologuing thing really felt so incredibly weak.

[north jolt]

Im excited to see where the story ultimately goes but like, other then not trusting certain things mentioned earlier Im not really confident in much of anything about where its heading, good or bad

[normal mountain]

Now I can see a bit of fanart with Tagfer and Lettie taking turns at him

[smoky solstice]

being a player since duviri, I kinda felt that way all the way up to and including whispers after the new war, since it veered completely into the void side of things immediately after and, that being a part of the lore I didn't care much for, ended up kinda soiling angels and whispers for me

but, after sitting with it for a while, I'm honestly enjoying this arc more and more, there's just a lot of great stuff to do with a concept like the void and DE has done well so far, like I really like how dark the story has gone due to all of this, and I'm wondering if they're willing to take it deeper

[north jolt]

If I still had a functional tablet

[north ferry]

Admittedly I was probably too annoyed to properly consider but I give Wally as much trust as Ballas... which is none.

[north jolt]

Oh absolutely finglutely not

I barely even trust Albrecht tbh

[feral cape]

He's literally the only other guy making sure wally doesn't do evil

[north ferry]

I love the concepts, don't like the execution. Ironically though the wishy washy execution is probably the best way to do the concepts.

[north jolt]

But he does this while also committing his own atrocities. Yeah Wally is definitely worse, but like the saying goes "The lesser of two evils is still evil"

[smoky solstice]

that's why I kinda like the idea of 1999 being the conceptual embodiment of 1999 and not actually going back in time. Like it seems debunked by the devs, but it would be like hella sad for the whole Hex thing to just be fake void people made to manipulate you into feeling love, a very dense emotion, for some end we're not aware of yet

[chilly iron]

I was going to say "I don't trust him at all"
But then we're going along with this plan so we must have a tiny amount

[north ferry]

That just reminds me of how Lotus is sidelined 😞

[feral cape]

Yea he's evil he's open about it

I will repair what I have broken, no more and no less. The scales must balance. And in such a monstrous penitence as this, I shall take no heed of the dust that may fall upon them on either side, the dust of petty lives.

The builders of old tempered their mortar with blood, to appease the most ancient of land-spirits. We should have been so wise. Yet it is not too late to learn.

The sands fall. The circuit completes. I return to the place of the beginning.

Let witless hordes bleat their disdain for every fervent plan;
The deal is done, the die is cast. I end as I began.

[north jolt]

I trust that Albrecht has a legitimate desire to stop Wally by any means necessary. That's about it

[feral cape]

The apparatus of logic would never yield an answer. Only resolute action remained. If I must be a demon, let me be an honest one. Let me prove my nature by what I do next.

Purpose. Let me leave such blazing footprints behind me as no unclean thing would dare to walk in.

[normal mountain]

Ever wonder how things might have turned out if Albrecht hadn't been so bloody terrified of the Void the day he went in it?
How much different Wally might have turned out if he was created from something other than fear?
Say, curiosity?

[north jolt]

Far as what lines Albrecht is or isn't willing to cross himself in order to accomplish that? tbh doesn't seem like very many

[feral cape]

He won't sacrifice kalymos or loid

[north jolt]

Definitely not, but beyond that?

[chilly iron]

Is that more or less sad than a group of people we come to love and maybe fall in love with, trapped in a cycle of one year? They can't leave, and we keep them in the loop. They're stuck, they can't go home, they can't grow...

[north ferry]

To be fair, conceptual embodiment isn't fake. Holdfasts and Duviri for example.

[feral cape]

He won't sacrifice kalymos or loid

Beyond that he does not care about the dust of petty lives

He literally says that

[feral cape]

Albrecht says this

[smoky solstice]

I mean I felt that way too, I think the first quest being Angels was just a bit of a mistake, I mean it's not like it doesn't introduce you to the void, but rather than creating a bit of a throughline after the New War so you could kinda get adjusted to it, it just throws you straight into it and therefore, you kinda miss a lot of the nuance that makes the void interesting.

I mean the environments, the implications, all of that I just didn't care for coming right out of the new war, so at first I felt the same way, it took a while for me to appreciate a lot of this. Especially like spending more time in the Zariman environments just looking around and noticing stuff, it's made it much cooler for me.

[north jolt]

"Many of you will die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"

[smoky solstice]

no I meant in regard to 1999, conceptual embodiment is obviously a real thing yeah

[north ferry]

To be fair, I don't think anyone could not be terrified of your sense of self is erroded and breached.

[north jolt]

Also this, was gonna mention earlier. It would take a very very "special" individual to go through what Albrecht did and not be terrified, even a little bit

[upbeat glacier]

Wally is imo a chaos god

[smoky solstice]

sorta but a big theme of the KIM messaging is about "at least we have each other" and despite the whole cycle thing, it's nice to have people with you. On top of that, it's a group of people for the Drifter to finally be able to call a family, keeping in mind that aside from this, the Drifter had literally no one. All of this being just a creation of the indifference would feel like a painful stab.

[north ferry]

Yeah that's kinda how I feel with even the New War but especially with everything after it, zariman, whispers. Particularly Jade Shadows and Lotus Eater oh god, which is why I really don't like Hex quest.

[smoky solstice]

idk, I specifically like delved a lot more into the lore after a lot of the 1999 reveals to get myself a lot more excited about it

and I think that helped a lot

[north ferry]

There are so many thematic correlations between WF and WH in general so close enough.

[chilly iron]

It definitely would, it just doesn't seem very likely. If you're right it'll be a huuuuge upset

[upbeat glacier]

What I'm getting at is he/she/whatever is not evil in our definition

Wally likes the chaos

Essentially joker

[north ferry]

Makes sense for sure, I'm just spiteful.

[north jolt]

I still think aspects of WF still fit in to the "grimdark" category with the greatest overall hope being that we give DE enough money to keep the game going

[feral cape]

Nope he is evil by our definition

Fun fact the senseless murder of an entire ship of people is evil

[north ferry]

Indifference is a good name for them.

[upbeat glacier]

Wally is like a dog chasing a car Wally would have no clue what he would do if he caught one

[north jolt]

I think at the earliest point he was introduced I would of bought this. But now, not so much

[feral cape]

That doesn't make him not evil

[north ferry]

I mean, Zariman shows what normal people going through a similar experience do.

[upbeat glacier]

What I'm saying is Wally's in it for the thrill

[feral cape]

Nope that was explicitly wally

[upbeat glacier]

Wally has no grand scheme

It's just chaos

[feral cape]

Maybe

He very clearly has a goal

He wants his finger back

[upbeat glacier]

Also

Rell imo is the strongest tenno considering he held Wally back for centuries

[north jolt]

Maybe also to screw over Albrecht in the process

[smoky solstice]

especially since I think 1999 was the first quest where I was able to like digest everything quite easily. I mean it does seem a lot more digestable in general, even aside from getting more into the lore, but I didn't have problems understanding everything about the narrative and all of the emotional beats, which with other quests tended to be a bit of a problem, since a lot of things would hit after the fact lmao

I mean this was my first big main quest release, technically started playing pre-whispers but I wasn't even close to current content when whispers came out, so it was also the first time I could get theories going and get excited about a big quest before its release

[feral cape]

Rell is the only other tenno so we have literally no way to tell

[upbeat glacier]

Compared to us?

Rell would stomp us

[lament stirrup]

Strictly speaking, the only person who's claimed Wally is the embodiment of Albrecht's fear is Sythel... who is the embidiment of the Drifter's fear. Wally's proven to have more complex motives than making people afraid.

[north ferry]

I feel like it's not a conceptualization of Indifference, but one of Albercht, the culmination of his research.

In fact I feel like the Indifference has the trope of 'can't create new things', with the murmur being... murmuring and assorted body parts and angels being the crew of the the zariman.

[smoky solstice]

oh yeah, you're right

[north ferry]

Where is this shown?

[smoky solstice]

I think conceptual embodiment is more just taking a person's emotions rather than the indifference creating it, which would be based on Albrecht

I think that was the theory actually

[lament stirrup]

The Drifter confirms it in the Kim Chat.

But I mean, its fairly obviously implied in Angels of the Zariman, and comparing Wally's history with the Orokin before the Zariman incident.

[north ferry]

Drifter spent kinda the same amount of time in Duviri and while the void was snatching away parts of Duviri it was still there.

[north ferry]

Damn it Warframe lore, so damn infuriating.

[smoky solstice]

I mean I understand your frustration with this but I also like the way DE has done this in regard to 1999

like the side content is not really necessary to feel the main emotional beats, it's just details to further your knowledge

so like the ARG or the KIM stuff is pretty much how you should do bonus after-quest lore content imo

and the lore computers across the mall too

(technically the ARG was pre-quest but you get the idea)

[north jolt]

Vauban lore is the worse tbh ||/jkg||

[upbeat glacier]

Does anyone else think the other countries of 1999 are going to get involved when Warframes are seen more often

[smoky solstice]

I mean maybe when the infested starts spreading outside of hollvania

[upbeat glacier]

Like when another nation sees Warframes murdering scaldra with ease they'll want a slice of the pie

[smoky solstice]

but I don't think it would be associated with warframes

[north ferry]

Oh for sure I get what they're going for in 1999, but it's vibes, not substance and that really annoys me because I'm an absolute idiot. I like substance. But I do feel like the balance is off between the two that massively undercuts my enjoyment of the story telling.

[glacial bough]

No, Hollavania has been written off

[upbeat glacier]

You don't think?

[smoky solstice]

well, at the same time, governments are already using the infested in 1999 (hollvania mainly seemingly)

so maybe

[north ferry]

Pretty sure there probably not going to be expansion on that stuff...

[lament stirrup]

The Scaldra's been keeping a tight grip on communication in and out and I imagine the warframe equivalent of the UN wouldn't be feeling particularly supportive of a military dictatorship who's civillian relations MO is "pour acid everywhere"
Plus the time loop of the year prevents informstion from building up.

[glacial bough]

For the Watsonian reason. Doylist, there'd be no point to DE doing that

[upbeat glacier]

So they wouldn't find out/be interested in Warframes

[north ferry]

Damn it 1999 has so much concept in it and has so little of the iceberg.

[glacial bough]

Cause most of that kind of stuff doesn't matter

[north ferry]

The only examples in setting is the Hex, who were victims of a mad scientist and absolutely related to the horror of Techrot. Even if they were interested. They don't have a lot to work with.

[lament stirrup]

They'd probably be interested if it were possible for them to learn of it, but the information would be filtered through the Scaldra, who view warframes as particularly dangerous forms of techrot rather than a political body that can be negotiated with.

[north ferry]

I know this 😦

[north jolt]

I just had the mental image of the Scaldra trying to negotiate with the warframes/protoframes with bundles of forma and potatoes

[lament stirrup]

"How in Sol's name did they get this and where can I get some?"

[feral cape]

There's literally no way to gauge his power in comparison

He is literally the only other tenno we ever meet

Hell we don't even know what defines power to a tenno is

[north ferry]

Also, the whole, lore accurate vs gameplay accuracy.

[feral cape]

Do we insit upon treating something inherently unscientific with scientific measures in an attempt to creating arbitrary rankings amongst tenno power

[upbeat glacier]

I do believe the scaldra do wanna get a Warframe

[glacial bough]

They woundn't, frames are infested monsters to purge

[north ferry]

I mean, that's probably just a terrible metric anyway when it comes to child soldiers and horrific monstrosities.

[upbeat glacier]

Viktor seemed extremely curious about us during the tank battle

[lament stirrup]

Does he?

[north jolt]

I forgot, WHY was Wally so interested in Rell anyways? or was it the other way around?

[lament stirrup]

Rell noticed Wally sooner than the other Tenno, possibly because of his classes in emotional regulation? And Rell presumably realised Wally was the cause of the chaos on the Zariman, which led to him founding the Red Veil to fight it.

[north jolt]

Ahh

Least Rell knows how to pick a cool name too

[upbeat glacier]

The last part

It's hideous and so strong and We live and learn

Idk that came off as curious

[lament stirrup]

He's talking about the tank and not the frames. But it is heavily implied that the Scaldra occasionally experiment with ways to control techrot between shooting it and civillians.

[upbeat glacier]

Oh

Ok I thought he was referring to us beating his precious tonk

[north jolt]

When I bring Rhino or Revenant to the fight and show him what a real "tank" looks like

[upbeat glacier]

The only strangeness about the tank fight is that the techrot took it over after it's ammo cooked off

[north ferry]

Becaue Reasons

[lament stirrup]

I'm faintly convinced the Techrot somehow got in before the fight even started. My personal theory is that the tank is running on an automated targetting system that someone used Techrot infected programming on.

[upbeat glacier]

Yes but still

When a tanks ammo cooks off the electronics are usually destroyed

*coughs in former tanker)

[north jolt]

That might explain what he wanted the revolver for

"Whoever thought it was a good idea to do this to my baby is going to get discharged with a terminal case of lead poisoning"

Also gun nerd rant

I'm not complaining because I don't think it's cool, but it is a cool skin/gun, but why in the year of 1999 is the most modern revolver they seemingly have a Webley break action?

[north ferry]

I mean, he is just an awful dictator, he probably is just killing them because their tank failed.

[lament stirrup]

All of the Protokol secondary skins are based on Hayden Tenno's weapons in Dark Sector.

I have no idea if that explains it because I don't understand gun history.

[north jolt]

I think we need more revolver skins. Maybe something modeled after the Mateba Unica

[north jolt]

The protokol revolver skin is based on the Webley break action revolver (not sure which exact variant) which was a design that by 1999, would of been around in some form or capacity for over a century. Least based on OUR timeline and history, which technologically seems to fall behind the 1999 timeline somewhat

It's a very cool, but very very old design

[lament stirrup]

Did a small bit of research and Dark Sector is set during the days of the Soviet union (between 1922 and 1991)
I'm not enough of a history buff to estimate its most likely year, but that might explain why Haydens weapons are so archaic by 1999 standards.

[north jolt]

In Dark Sector he has a mix of old and more modern (relatively speaking) weapons right? And primarily sourced from black markets ?

[lament stirrup]

Yeah the games vendor is a black market dealer. Any midern military grade weapons in the game can only be temporarily used due to a gene lock detecting his infection.

Unrelated, Dark Sector's Technocyte has a way cooler aesthetic than the Infestation and I'm deeply saddened we don't get more of it beyond the Hayden and Nemesis skins.

[north jolt]

And a common misconception about arms black markets is that you can always find "ANYTHING" you want, even even black markets are subject to similar forces of supply, demand and scarcity as any other market. The added criminal element sometimes making certain weapons even more scarce depending on how difficult they are to hide and traffic

So having a mix of old crappy surplus guns and some more modern weapons makes a bit of sense in a certain context

Also I just remembered one of the protokol skins also basically looks like a sawed off shotgun, which besides being extremely funny depending on what gun you use it on, IS also something you could potentially see often on black markets for being cheap, easy to hide/conceal and very deadly at close ranges. Also full auto double barrel shotgun never gets old

Protokol Tekna is basically a HK MK23, which in both Dark Sector and Warframe 1999 would actually be a pretty modern handgun

Veskek skin kinda reminds me of a mix of a Tec-9 and M-3 smg or "grease gun"

[lament stirrup]

I don't know a non insane way to explain this, but I've unironically added these to my notes on demons for a pathfinder game.

[north jolt]

Demons named after modern guns? demons with modern guns?

[lament stirrup]

Demons with modern(ish) guns.
The full explanation is lengthy and wildly off topic.

[north jolt]

Fair. Thinking about it I do find it kind of funny how the Hex of this mismash of futuristic Orokin weapons given to them by Entrati, paired with more typical milsurp and outdated guns even for te time, they likely just already had available to them

"Here you go Letti a nice shiny Latron, some finely crafted and honed Kamas and...a dusty old British revolver"

(Webley's are still cool though)

[graceful swan]

RPG in non 1999 missions when?

[north jolt]

Hopefully Echoes or some other update adds a bunch of new Scaldra weapons

I want the RPG launcher and those drum mag slime gun things Decadants use tha kinda remind me of those autoshotguns from the first Matrix movie

These incase anyone is unfamiliar. First thing the Decandant's guns reminded me of

Especially the fact that they are dual wielded

[sly pagoda]

If we ever get a lever action shotgun protokol skin, the reload better be spinning it like arnie in Terminator 2.

[gloomy anchor]

Ok no this ain't right

You're using transference before you even get to the second dream

What is this

Deimos has the lore all messed up

Whose idea was this

[lament stirrup]

The Tenno is using transference every time they switch warframes.

[gloomy anchor]

You aren't aware of what transference is before you know that though

It's literally essentially a gameplay mechanic

Not addressed in the story

[graceful swan]

You can actually see Transference at the start of the game

[lament stirrup]

Yeah, the family comments that the Tenno might not be ready for their signal to be rerouted to the necramech if you haven't done second dream yet.

[gloomy anchor]

But you have to do it to do second dream now

Heart of Deimos is a ceres junction requirement

It feels out of place

[gloomy anchor]

That's all we get as an excuse lol

[humble sierra]

Tbf it makes sense if you don’t know what transference is

[gloomy anchor]

I will agree

It seems awkward because I know

That's actually something I should have thought about that's glaringly simple now. Sorry and thank you

[raw stone]

Settle for weapon skins imo. Especially that Ferrocite RPG

[north ferry]

I can't remember, do we have a reason why the Drifter started to decide to leave?

[humble sierra]

Leave Duviri? They had to in order to save Operator and the Origin system

Teshin told them about the narmer threat

[north ferry]

That's not why they decided to get out. They decided that before they met Teshin if I recall.

[woven coyote]

he talks about it in one of the kim chats

[humble sierra]

Oh if you’re talking about that, it’s because they grew older

[north ferry]

I guess, not really helpful for what I'm thinking about. Trying to figure out a narrative character arc.

Ah well

[humble sierra]

They went into Duviri as a kid, and it was fun being friends with Thrax, the king

[north ferry]

Yeah, I suppose I'm making assumptions about Duviri being static but that's not really true, the spiral and even then.
Hmm, now I'm wondering what determines the reset point of the spiral 🤔

[lament stirrup]

As far as I can tell, Thrax's whims.

[restive river]

Why they wanted to leave Duviri..??
The place where they were constantly executed??
The place that sucked all emotion out of them to the point they were entirely apathetic??
I’d wanna leave hell too lmao

[restive river]

Yes, it was up to Thrax

It was groundhog day but Thrax decided what got to stay changed, like deaths for some of the duvirians

Like death largely doesn’t mean anything because the reset unless Thrax says otherwise

[north ferry]

They weren't getting executed until they tried to leave. If they were apathetic, why did they even start trying? The motivation to throw away everything doesn't exactly come naturally from apathy.

[lament stirrup]

According to the KIM convo's nothing ever changed in Duviri, people included.

Keep in mind that thr six highest authority figures in Duviri (Thrax and the orowyrms) are all completely insane.

[restive river]

They were being executed cause they weren’t being Thrax’s pal anymore
They still wanted to leave cause it was hell, that apathy came over time from constant executions, from every day being the same

[restive river]

The graves kinda contradict that then
Like if Thrax wills it it will be changed, its just that individual things can’t change on their own
Like there was more islands but Thrax dropped them into the void

[lament stirrup]

Plus, I'm pretty sure Thrax still torments and kills his citizens independant of his grudge against the Drifter. I can't imagine a teenager discovering empathy would be able to stomach that forever, timeloop or not.

[restive river]

Thrax decides who stays dead

Only he decides concrete changes, of which there isn’t many beyond changes to the landscape or specific deaths

[north ferry]

Wouldn't the Drifter stay dead then? Also the loop kicks you back to the start of the Paradox sequence, after getting the hand, when the Drifter dies. And is presented as an internal loop, not a gameplay conceit.

[lament stirrup]

Tje Drifter wouldn't stay dead because Thrax is obsessed with them.

Thrax would never allow a loop where he loses his favorite toy.

[restive river]

exactly

[north ferry]

Yeah, that's valid.

[restive river]

That’s
What happens

[north ferry]

I do remember that part now.

[lament stirrup]

I think on some level Thrax is aware the Drifter is the only "person" in Duviri that's fully capable of change and growth unbound from the story's narratives.

[restive river]

Also probably the only person capable of controlling Duviri

[north ferry]

I think the populace of the islands are subject to change, due to not being the main characters of the story.

[restive river]

They aren’t really

They go on and on about how nothing changes, how they barely feel anything, how even an itch is excited

They’re as stagnant as the rest of Duviri, until Thrax says otherwise

We do know there has been times in the past where they stood up to Thrax to a degree, the lost Island of Lorn comes to mind
But largely they just do the same thing every day

[north ferry]

The fact they are aware that there is a loop and their place in it I think is relevant.

[restive river]

It is

Its groundhog day but everyone is aware

And the only one who can actually change anything is Thrax and the Drifter

It’s also clear other strong emotions can influence Duviri, it is a product of conceptual embodiment after all

See Kullervo’s Hold

[lament stirrup]

I have a personal theory that a citizen of Duviri, Thrax included, would be capable of changing their nature if they left Duviri. But there's nothing to substantiate that beyond me speculating what DE could do with it next.

[restive river]

Cause that def was not in the book :p

[north ferry]

Tbh, I don't think Thrax can either, I mean they kinds can but they only do so as an extension of the Drifter. And the islands are affected by outside forces, Kullervo's Hold, the Island of Chains.

[restive river]

Character arc for the Kaithe when

[lament stirrup]

"I want to steal."

[restive river]

Let the horse steal

[north ferry]

Achris is as far as I can tell, relatively independent, and she does show up out of Duiviri and is aware and records the changes that happen.

[restive river]

Kullervo’s Hold is a product of conceptual embodiment
The chains and such are a product of Wally attacking Duviri

[restive river]

That is just a hologram iirc, a way she communicates with us

Its also on the border between reality and Duviri, the Zariman

We know other things from Duviri have escaped though
The Thrax enemies on the Zariman and Lua come to mind

[north ferry]

I'm pretty sure that island was linked to Rell, considering the whole vibes thing.

Somehow I forgot about the Thrax .... 🤦‍♂️

[lament stirrup]

The island's destruction was linked to Rell, its not clear if the island itself was.

[restive river]

The ones on the Zariman being directly from Duviri and the Lua ones being a consequence of Lua being in the void and thus so “close” to Duviri

[restive river]

Pretty sure it was linked to Wally more than Rell
Rell has no actual connection to Duviri

No Tenno but the Drifter does

There’s theories about Rell and Duviri but thats all it is :p
nothing proven
In fact, Drifter’s Rell should’ve gone down the same route as they would have been saved

[north ferry]

Lua isn't in the void anymore though. but yeah it was so.

[restive river]

Yes, the Lua Thrax are a consequence of it being in the void for so long.

Lotus tells us as much

[north ferry]

Yes, I know that

[lament stirrup]

The Rain of Chains has fascinating time-space implications given that you can discover the fragments for it before doing Chains of Harrow.

[north ferry]

Man I am dumb.

[restive river]

Especially since technically that event happened long before chains of harrow

[north ferry]

I still think the ability to loop is entirely Drifters, it's just that they subconsciously gave it up to Thrax but it's still theirs, thus why Thrax can't just undo everything once progress was made during the Paradox quest and why it carries over to 1999... anyway.

[lament stirrup]

Thrax presumably still has a degree of the power since spirals progress eithout player interaction, but yeah. Definitly.

The Drifter's power over time is particularly noteworthy since it was developed independant of Wally's patronage.

[restive river]

Thrax def still has power, the Drifter gave up the power over Duviri because

1. They never wanted to rule
2. They wanted to save Teshin and to do that they had to loop the day

[lament stirrup]

If we ever get an official transcription of the Tales of Duviri I would be deeply interested to see if the timeloop was something Eularia explicitly wrote.

[restive river]

True

DE
Let us read our vandalized book

[lament stirrup]

Since that would mean she indirectly fostered the Drifter's power over time and thus sabotaged the man in the wall's plans in the long term.

[silk atlas]

I wish Duviri had the whole stuff fleshed out that they had in their first peeks at it with the stageplay stuff.

[restive river]

I kinda wish the terraforming tech lore was still accurate to some degree
That being said, I love conceptual embodiment

[north ferry]

So, Thrax controls the loop and there was indeed loops prior to the Drifter's attempted escapes. We only know that it fostered warning against extremes of the characters and their emotions.
Sorry I'm thinking of writing fanficton and if I'm going to break the lore I figure I should at least know some of it XD

[restive river]

[high bay]

Hand to hand combat power scaling, who wins, Rhino Prime or an Ultramarine Astartes Space Marine?

[rustic gull]

Rhino Prime curbstomps, Warframe as a universe is incredibly tall, Rhino Prime can literally slow time by stomping

[proper barn]

Ducky do kaithes exist in non duviri and what do they look like?

this is my favorite question.

[limber pulsar]

dagath sure makes it sound like kaithes also existed outside of duviri and look the same

[proper barn]

no she summons a ghost horse

of her "horse" never says kaithe.

[chrome rivet]

I wonder. Does the Red Kuva itselft cause the horrific nightmares that kill off the consumer, or does the Orokin itself has to actively create it?

[limber pulsar]

might want to reread it then

[proper barn]

also do they look like Duviri kaithes or more normal cuz we fight "dax" in duviri and that's not what dax looks like.

[proper barn]

the nightmare things we had? was the Queen actively like scrapping us out of it. Teshin just helped us with his mind-kung-fu

[chrome rivet]

Oh so the Red Kuva just switches the body rather than causing nightmares as well

[limber pulsar]

theyre more ghostly looking, but very clearly modeled after kaithes instead of normal horses

[humble sierra]

“Many gifts they gave her. Fine armor. Rubedo rings. And a horse of her own, on the condition that she never, ever named it.”

“The horse had to go. An accidental impalement was arranged. But fate played a cruel trick, and both rider and horse were impaled. Corphel and Irilia hastened to her side. Ignoring the dying horse, they fretted over their lover as she coughed blood.”

“She reached deep into despair and memory, and summoned up a ghost-horse to run alongside her on the night winds.”

[proper barn]

but like when have our animals in Warframe ever looked normal?

[humble sierra]

All instances say horse

[proper barn]

Like kubrows are dogs and don't look like dogs.

So are we thinking of like a horse with horns?

[humble sierra]

If I had to guess Horses are more like horses and Kaithes are more like Pegasi

Plus the Duviri doll aesthetic

[proper barn]

the ghost horse she summons are kaiths though.

Cuz that's her 4.

[proper barn]

But like Dax look kinda like the Duviri dax.

also why would a warframe horse just look like a horse?

[limber pulsar]

the story told by grandmother just says horses, but dagaths 4 ability description specifically says kaithes and thats what they visually look like

[proper barn]

BUT WHAT DO HORSES LOOK LIKE

THEY CANT LOOK LIKE A NORMAL HORSE

[limber pulsar]

normal horses probably existed on earth at some point, but the orokin also made kaithes for whatever reason. same with kubrows and kavats

[restive river]

Yea
Dagath
The fact we can summon them
The fact that there’s stickers of them on the Zariman, though that could be in reference to the book ofc

[restive river]

Judging by what we’ve seen I disagree they’d be “normal”, likely some alt earth variant, very similar ofc

[limber pulsar]

they would at least have some kind of equine animal that actually resembels a horse instead of the weird bundles of glowing floating metal that are kaithes

[restive river]

Oh for sure, I’m just saying I doubt they’d be a 1:1 with our version of a horse

Like the changes seem to not be too major
Like maybe it’d have a different type of tail or ears or a slightly different face, we can probably look to Kaithes to some extent for differences
Like the body type would largely be the same and it’d still be an equine

[limber pulsar]

it is strange that kaithes have that distinct artifical aesthetic of duviri, but also apparently existed outside of it. wouldnt be surprised if kaithes actually did originate as just creatures in the storybook but some bored orokin decided to make some

[restive river]

Could easily be they were bioengineered sometime between the Zariman’s disappearance and the Tenno returning
Since Dagath exists

I do think they probably existed beforehand tho

[proper barn]

You say that like all the duviri enemies aren't called dax

[limber pulsar]

… how is it strange that the storybook world from the orokin empire includes the soldier of the orokin empire?

[humble sierra]

It’s definitely interesting that “horses” are just called horses, with Kaithe being the Duviri equivalent.

You have

• Dogs

• Kubrows

• Krubies

• Cats

• Kavats

• Kexats

• Horses

• Horses

• Kaithes

[limber pulsar]

makes sense when you think of it as “cat”, “dog”, and “horse” all just being broad categories that include both their natural earth equivalents similar to irl and the weirder offshoots that the orokin would eventually make

[proper barn]

The queen says "dog" amd stuff

[quartz sky]

I was explaining what cephalons were to a friend tonight and he jokingly asked if the cephalons got freaky. But are any of the cephalons romantically involved?

[proper barn]

Not that we know. We don't got any down bad though. Closest we get is the Suda Simaris tension.

I think some of the conclave capture the flag cephalons are werid like "oh capture me tenno" that's all you get.

[quartz sky]

Thank you lol

[zinc bronze]

I finished the sacrifice and I just have one question

Why does umbra follow me

[dire mountain]

Thats his gimmick

[zinc bronze]

Ah

[north ferry]

Because he's intelligent, but yes that is the frames passive.

[strange turtle]

8 legs

They’re all sleipnir

[humble sierra]

@zinc bronze There's an augment mod that stops him from following you around. Gives an Ability Strength boost. Also means you won't lose any active modifiers when you transfer

[proper barn]

that isn't a thing that happens really anymore but yeah you can do that

if you want.

[orchid lichen]

Okay now I'll give us all a hard one.
Is Caliban a FATHER-MOTHER or simply a COMMANDER?
The question stand because of his 3rd summoning ability. Reason why is connected to his own body and the sentents' that he calls upon.
Outside of the gameplay reasons, the fellas are immune to the void influence, which just gives them a sentient version of cancer apparently. They inherit his color pallets, depend on his own stats and overall named [CALIBAN's xxx], which is veeeeery suspicious.
I personaly have 2 possible explanations:

1. They're stacked somewhere on the sentient ship and just launch to calibans call. Specificaly modified to alter him and be resistant to void shenanigans. This is least probably, because why would sentients waste their cancer-cure method on a warframe instead of their entire fleet?
2. Yes, he is a father-mother. Why father-mother? Well the gender roles of sentients are a bit confusing, because Hunhow is a man, yet he has a womb and gave birth to Natah (i think? yes I know there's a literal ship she calls 'Mother', idk how that works). So anyway, how can Caliban be a parent? Well, there's a thing called parthogenesis - giving birth by 'ripping' yourself apart. And it's actually backed up in warframe. Said Hunhow has his sentient buddies because or taking his body into small pieces - he himself calls them 'fragments'. Well, I suppose these fellas are not exactly sentients, they do not posses a full mind on their own, but nontheless they are sentients. And this brings us to Caliban. Parthogenesis in his case explanes all what I brought out. Void resistance is due to sharing his own flesh, which is transference-positive, name's thing is due to being his child, color pallets are self-explanatory. Hell, when they die or you recast the ability, previous fellas explode into particles, and we know they're almost extinct, so it's wise for Caliban to reuse their materials rather than spend already low amounts or surviving sentients, exp after New War

[north ferry]

I'm sure the specifics there are a little besides the point, considering Nekros creating spirits of the dead and all the wild other summoning stuff the others do.

Ultimately thought, I cannot see it in anyway being a 'summon from elsewhere' ability that's less more believable than a 'summon from nothing' even.

[proper barn]

Purgasa was Hunhows wife. The sentients we fight are fragments of bigger ones. Like the mimics we fought in sacrifice fragments of natah and most of the other oejd we fight fragments of erra or hunhow.

[wraith coral]

I wonders .. the existence of a sevagoth prime, this emplies that the sevagoth was actually a class?

Like the main unity on most of railjacks

Like the tempestarii sevagoth was for rescue

[vital cargo]

no, other frames that should be one of one still have primes, like inaros, or revenant, or gara

[wraith coral]

But it could br interesting is a sorta of way

To understand how the orokin army work

[feral cape]

No frame should be 1 of 1

They all had blueprints taken of them

[hexed oxide]

with exceptions though right ?

[wraith coral]

Like caliban

[feral cape]

Like rev prime shouldn't exist in a closed universe but outside intervention made it so

[wraith coral]

Be cant have a prime since he was the only of its kind

[hexed oxide]

weren't both revenants made by the unum ?

[feral cape]

I can still take a blueprint from caliban he's still tech

[wraith coral]

Like everything we got

[feral cape]

Base rev was made when the warden consigned himself to the lake and absorbed eidolon energy

Rev prime we don't have any idea

He just showed up because

[wraith coral]

Actually it feels terryfing imagine fighting with a squad of calibans

[feral cape]

He can still have a prime he has a helmet that says he was active during the old war

[hexed oxide]

but ballas' monologue in his trailer does say where he came from, or at least implies

[wraith coral]

Oh god thx for not putting caliban on new war

Also

Lavos prime is one that dont need a prime

[feral cape]

Base rev
Warden falls into lake ->absorbed a bunch of Eidolon energy-> boom rev
Prime rev
Uhhh uhhhhhhh-> uh uhhhhhh uh-> prime rev

He showed up don't know why

[wraith coral]

Revenant suffered on the hands of a fashionist bc his old clothes was wacky

[distant narwhal]

I'm curious. Does anyone think we might be able to get alternate universe versions of the Corpus and Grineer? Something where Vor was able to successfully capture the tenno and use their blood to cure clone rot?

[lean garden]

likelihood of that happening is extremely slim

[frail rose]

I hope not, alternate universe stories can easily be kind of a nothingburguer, and I really hope we don't dwelve in multiverse stuff

[distant narwhal]

We technically have extra-dimensional travel already with 1999 and Duviri, so, even if it's a slim chance DE would do the story, would it not still be possible?

[frail rose]

I mean is it a discussion of possibility, or a desire to see it?

[distant narwhal]

Both

[lean garden]

extra-dimensional travel
Duviri is in the void and 1999 is our actual past

[frail rose]

Then no, and I really hope not either tbqh

[distant narwhal]

Drifter is an alternate universe version of the operator, though

[lean garden]

we dont have any real method to cross over into such kinds of "alternative realities"

[lean garden]

drifter was manifested into our reality, he didnt hop over

furthermore, drifter didnt exist until the deal was made

[frail rose]

The most alternate universe about the Drifter is it's existence, and it's treated mostly like a living paradox, we don't really dwell on the Origin System the drifter "left" behind

[distant narwhal]

The paradox is them inhabiting the same universe, though. Not the drifter's very existence

[frail rose]

I mean that's why it's the paradox, the same people inhabiting the same universe lmao

But yeah, imo not really likely, but I can't really speak of the game's future

[distant narwhal]

But you literally just said the drifter's very existence is treated as a living paradox

[frail rose]

Okay. Let me elaborate then.

[distant narwhal]

I just think the scaldra are a good example of what the grineer could be without clone rot, and I think it would be an interesting path to follow and show how they could dominate the origin system without their disease

[lean garden]

why are the scaldra a good example of that?

[distant narwhal]

Because they're an elite force with weapons the grineer can't even manage hundreds of years into the future

[frail rose]

The Drifter is a paradox because functionally they are the same person as the Operator, which already exists. The Origin System as we know is the one that Wally yeeted us off of the Zarimann with the rest of the Tenno and stuff goes as usual. The Drifter is the other us left behind on the Zariman, which eventually led to the Drifter creating Duviri; The whole shebang about both Operator and Drifter co-existing is the nature of the void as a nexus between materialized possibilities and unmaterialized.

The Paradox fundamentally is that the Drifter and the Operator exist on the same universe technically, since the Operator is there, but the Drifter is also there due to the nature of the void being a nexus. The Drifter can't really "access" their original universe however, neither has a desire to so that's fundamentally a dead end regarding any alternate universe timeline shenanigans.

[lean garden]

the same scaldra that can barely hold their own against 7 goobers, who only have control in a single city state because they legally are allowed to?

[frail rose]

The Paradox is from both persons existing at the same time because of void shenanigans and that's why normally one has to be in the void for the other to do their thing in the Origin System

Also Scaldra is not an elite force they're a gloried warlord army led by an utter incompetent lunatic with techrot infested tanks

[agile spindle]

Tempestarii prime was stolen from us😔

Need me a rail jack prime

[graceful swan]

Yours isn’t?

[feral cape]

I also believe a Kim conversation implies all that's left or existed of Drifters reality is the zariman

[old dome]

since all the frames were made w helminth strains do yall think theres some sort of a hivemind connection?? even w the tenno piloting them...??

[raw stone]

The scaldra arent even orokin, they're humans

They're so distantly related that the Orokin are their own species from Humans.

[north jolt]

Something I keep forgetting to ask about. Is the murmur (specifically the actual fragments of Wally) being weak to radiation something significant lore wise, or a detail we should at least keep in mind for possible future revelations?

[lean garden]

we dont actually know why theyre weak to rad, but they are so there

[graceful swan]

DE just found a random thing for them to be weak to so they actually had one

[digital grail]

Drop a nuke on the murmur and BAM all gone

[north jolt]

Probably, BUT what if were goign the direction of nuking eldritch gods?

Horrors beyond comprehension vs. Hydrogen bomb

[graceful swan]

It would explain why he didn’t want the bomb to go off

But seriously I doubt they thought that much into it

[north jolt]

HOLD UP, I just thought of something

If Albrecht can go back as far as freaking 1999 (assuming current WF setting is thousands and thousands of years into the future) why didn't he just go back to his expriment that caused this whole mess and warned himself "Hey dummy, don't go into the freakin void or you're going to unleash unspeakable horrors upon the system!"

[digital grail]

Bc then he can't go back and stop himself bc it never happens

[graceful swan]

Wally existing already would make that plan pointless

[digital grail]

Yeah

[north jolt]

I mean Daughter is already listening to a boyband that hasn't existed for thousands of years as if that's just a normal thing. Not sure how time paradoxes actually work in this game

[lament stirrup]

There's a nonzero chance the infestation preserved Onlynes music. Especially since every Coda canonically survives to the origin system before the player kills them (assuming thr devs don't change that)

Incidentally, being the favorite band of a nano-zombie hivemind is the best way to be remembered.

[spice spade]

what boss name on themisto jupiter again ?

[feral cape]

The ropalyst?

[spice spade]

no, the one that give valkyr bp

[feral cape]

Alad v and his zanuka

[spice spade]

yes, on alad v cinematic he showing 2 frame. what is the first one before valkyr ?

[feral cape]

Could you send an ss

[spice spade]

i need youtube then, or could be protea idk

[feral cape]

Its definitely not protea

[lament stirrup]

Excalbur, then mag.

The Excalibur is sold for parts and the mag is rescued during the bidding.

[feral cape]

Completely unrelated but like yesterday and today I've got liken 5 different tik tok posts about how nidus prime is the strongest frame in lore which is like really funny to me because the lore is his prime trailer and that's it

[spice spade]

yeah exca but with different skin

[lament stirrup]

Don't ask why I have this information memorized.
I an unwell.

[lament stirrup]

Immortal skin, pendragon helmet.

[feral cape]

I see similar stuff like this happen alot not just with warframe but other media and I want to know the psychology behind it

[lament stirrup]

Its called "lack of reading compregension"

[feral cape]

Compregension

[lament stirrup]

Chat.
Chat I can explain.

[feral cape]

But like it can't be a reading comprehension issue because it's not a lack of understanding in what they read

Its just like a mass hallucination of stuff the character can do despite there being no proof

[woven coyote]

Mass hallucination
The classic source of information for media

[lament stirrup]

Nidus could canonically beat Praghasa in arm wrestling. Just warch his prime trailer.

[lean garden]

I think its also a matter of group think, and a touch of favouritism

[feral cape]

Source? god told me

[vagrant bone]

i gosa beeg lore question/ confirmation?

[lean garden]

shoot

[vagrant bone]

no idea if its already been said.. theres a LOT of words up there.. but the relationship between thrax and the drifter... theres stuff that suggests thrax and drifter are siblings. the fact that thrax has a human arm and such.. the memories you see of a kid left out of a photo with the family, teshin says they are thraxs memories (not 100% sure if he knows whats up fr) and in 99
1999 spoilers for a chat convo:
|| the drifter has the choice of saying they had a sibling before, and stuff about that, plus the duviri lore blerbs||
so i gotta ask, thrax is the drifters younger brother right?
cuz in the memories we see a kid afraid and alone on the zeriman as an angel is forming yeah? and we know the drifter is the operator but without the wally deal and we played that bit, they were in a classroom not isolated so like? its thrax right?

[lean garden]

Ok so thrax is not human

[lament stirrup]

Thrax is a character from the book.

[feral cape]

No thrax is the drifters emotions

[lean garden]

thrax is a character from the Duviri Book, made real via strong emotions from drifter, a thing called Conceptual Embodiment

[lament stirrup]

He has more autonomy by virtue of being the deurotagonist of the book and the Drifter's favorite, but there's no indication he was a person before Duviri's manifestation.

[feral cape]

It might be especially with stuff with just no lore like nidus and any post I see talking about a "lore accurate" tenno despite tenno abilities not having lore and the only other guy being rell

[vagrant bone]

the memories dont line up though

[lean garden]

the memories you see of a kid left out of a photo with the family
Thats the drifter

[lean garden]

the big reveal of duviri is that those memories are the drifter's memories

[feral cape]

That and we made thrax

[spice spade]

let me ask this, so basicly every tenno has their own frame rigt before. so what our frame before goes to sleep ?

[feral cape]

Whatever u want it to be

[lean garden]

the one you choose in the opening mission

[woven coyote]

The big thing that denies thrax being human is the simple fact we see him being created in the last diorama in duviri paradox

[vagrant bone]

i mean i know "Dominus Thrax" is the book character but

[woven coyote]

The arm in that scene has thrax's elbow nub

[lament stirrup]

Excalibur, volt, or mag.
There were mass produced frames even during the old war, you can see prime copies during Erra's intro cutscene.

Arguably, Qorvex is the MC Tenno's personal frame.

[feral cape]

Also the implication is that drifter was given a different interpretation of "saving all of them" where wally just teleported the kids out of the zariman other than the Drifter

Because "all of them" isn't you

[slow phoenix]

Meanwhile me, having never used qorvex

[spice spade]

i dont follow qorvex story, can you explain ?

[feral cape]

Albrecht made it for the chosen tenno

Which is us

[slow phoenix]

Except we didn't become the chosen tenno till after chains of harrow

[spice spade]

ah so some frame is basicly exclusive some is mass production

[feral cape]

Nobody was the chosen before us

[spice spade]

i know that some frame is indeed selling like peanut 😂

[lament stirrup]

Yeah, but Qrovex was meant for whoever the chosen Operator turned out to be. The PC Tenno got their first, so its their frame.

[slow phoenix]

When we first got woken up from cryo we were a candidate, then we moved up to the chosen operator

[feral cape]

Yes and nobody was the chosen before us so it's our personal frame

[lament stirrup]

Rell was arguably closest to being Chosen Operator before the player character Tenno.

[slow phoenix]

All our frames are our "personal frames"

[lament stirrup]

Personal in the sense that Qorvex was made for us.

[feral cape]

I'm talking about the model not the individual

[spice spade]

i mean, all our frame is basicly copy right.

[feral cape]

That is like the worst argument of semantics I've seen

[feral cape]

Yes

[lament stirrup]

As far as I can tell there was never an "original" sentient Qorvex.

[slow phoenix]

The market page for qorvex says "to protect a chosen operator", it doesn't actually say THE chosen operator

Maybe there can be multiple

[feral cape]

There was never an original sentient of most frames we use generation 2 warframes were never sentient

Just generation 1

[slow phoenix]

We don't know enough about the origin of warframes for that

The only sentient one we know is umbra

[lament stirrup]

Well, "Chosen Operator" is a term Albrecht came up with, not a formal title. So technically if multiple Tenno fulfilled the requirements there could be multiple Chosen Operators. Arguably, the Drifter and Operator are both Albrecht's Chosen.

[feral cape]

There's nothing other than gameplay shenanigans suggesting there's more than 1 chosen

[lament stirrup]

And Kullervo.

[feral cape]

Dante kullevero and generation 1 rhino

And dagath if we're taking maybe

[lament stirrup]

Arguably Gara since the Unum appears to be an adult and therefore wouldn't be in a relationship with a Tenno.

Crazy how Gara sacrificed herself twice over...

[slow phoenix]

By our standards, who knows what sentient orokin towers do tho

[lament stirrup]

I don't think DE would make an explicitly good aligned character a pdfile.

[feral cape]

Yea it's not a shonen manga

Or some green lantern comics

[slow phoenix]

Yet

[feral cape]

The uhhhh guy gardener ones i think?

[strange turtle]

“It was revealed to me in a nestawood vision”

[lament stirrup]

We also know Mirage was laughing maniacally during her conversion process and during her quest Lotus is clearly mourning Mirage and not the Tenno controlling her.

[woven coyote]

Mirage quest does predate second dream by quite a bit tho

[feral cape]

It could also be during the second dream death of a frame results in the death of a tenno if the transference stream isn't cut

[slow phoenix]

Yeah its most likely just non changed dialogue

[feral cape]

Remember our immortality is consciousness based

[lament stirrup]

We also know Khora is conciously responsible for deciding who gets her parts from an update note (Khora's remains were synthesized by Simaris)

[feral cape]

What

[lean garden]

the issue with this is that theres no real indication that the mirage that lotus was "mourning" is the original

better yet, the lotus only existed after the tenno were incorporated into the warframe project

[feral cape]

I mean second dream the actual like thing and not the quest

Also being suspended into a dreamlike state to better control our power is something oddly familiar

[lean garden]

which means that an autonomous mirage most likely would not have been deployed during that time

[lament stirrup]

Checked the update notes and I appear to have made that up in my head.

[feral cape]

Also all non tenno frames were killed

[lean garden]

*almost all

[slow phoenix]

I assumed that if a tenno dies all the way we just get yoinked by ordis (he can yoink "dropped loot") and repaired by the helminth

[feral cape]

Kullevero ran away and Dante was harbored by the entrati

[lean garden]

except for those who escaped into places the orokin would never look (with entrati/void related nonsense)

[lament stirrup]

Oh yeah, Jade was also sentient. And lulled her own Operator to sleep.

[feral cape]

And generation 1 rhino was likely scheduled to be executed eventually after all the information they could glean from it

[feral cape]

Or were just more powerful than the police

Its like maxtec trying to hunt v

[slow phoenix]

I keep wondering what happened to that operator

[feral cape]

Its really hard to apprehend a criminal who is a physical anomaly of unrivaled strength and power

And can just kill or out run the police

[lament stirrup]

Ballas' monologue emphasizes that the Tenno could control the warframes because they were the only ones who actually cared about their suffering, so presumably there was a decent stock of sentient warframes before the mass produced versions.

[feral cape]

There were

And then they were killed after the warframe insurrection

[lament stirrup]

The Orokin tried to kill them.

[feral cape]

A separate event that apparently happened pre zariman return

[lament stirrup]

They didn't necessarily suceed.

[feral cape]

Yes and the only ones we know that survived were Dante and kully

[lament stirrup]

True.

[feral cape]

Dante because the gay couple needed a nerd and kully because he's stronger and faster than the police and they couldn't jump him or something

[lament stirrup]

I mean, Kullervo's a melee frame and the Dax only use melee weapons. They were screwed from the start against him.

[proper barn]

also the sibiling is a sister they mention so not thrax.

[lean garden]

sure, but then it would also mean that the orokin wouldnt be deploying them

[lament stirrup]

👁️👁️
Source?

[proper barn]

they use She i remember it

I would have to find it

[feral cape]

Also you can have the option of the sibling not existing

[vagrant bone]

mine said brother

is your drifter male?

[proper barn]

masc but yeah

[vagrant bone]

right, so mine is fem so likely it swaps ok

[proper barn]

the drifter actually talks about how Gender isnt' real for them in a Quincy convo

very fun.

[lament stirrup]

Minor fun fact, the defualt body type for the Operator is always the opposite of the frame you use during second dream.

[vagrant bone]

body type swaps sibling gender?

[proper barn]

maybe?

or we have 2 but probably.

[vagrant bone]

would seem so

[main crane]

wait what

[proper barn]

that's just funny

[lament stirrup]

Imagine being so jealous of your sibling that your genderfluid but only swap to the gender they aren't.

[proper barn]

also Like i said even Drifter says "gender isn't real nerd"

[vagrant bone]

based

[silk atlas]

How does that work with Xaku lol

[proper barn]

do you have any other questions?

[feral cape]

Shhhhhhh

[proper barn]

i mean Xaku PROVES ITS UBER NOT REAL

owned

owned owned owned

[feral cape]

Xaku isn't a gender thing they are venom

[proper barn]

sHHHH

[feral cape]

Its 3 dudes in a tenchcoat

[proper barn]

THEY CAN BE 2 THINGS

[vagrant bone]

no, im upset thrax isnt the lil bro tbh..

[lament stirrup]

Actually, Nidus' is venom.

Because I want to have his children.

[proper barn]

do we get Nidus Yuri with helminth?

[feral cape]

Nidus is not multiple people in 1 body

[proper barn]

only then is it truely Venom.

[lament stirrup]

Yes, how do you think we got the Charger?

[feral cape]

Vox what?

[proper barn]

that is pretty normal tbh

Have you heard venom?

[lament stirrup]

What wasn't clear? I desire that Thang carnally and romantically.

[feral cape]

Why

[lament stirrup]

I like men.

[feral cape]

Yea me too

[proper barn]

I mean they are a thing that can be whatever you want them to be and they are in your mind all the time.

[hexed oxide]

region chat right here

[proper barn]

so like what's not to love?

[feral cape]

Disease

[proper barn]

also they are on your body all the time.

[lament stirrup]

Nidus is sterile! Mostly.

[vagrant bone]

like (lil bro take shape of character in book, saves older sibling, goes crazy with void stuffs and whatnot when drifter wants to leave and they both work out emotions together and stuff) i thought it woulda been really cool and theres just enough empty space that like.. AGH

[feral cape]

I don't care about vox being attracted to venom I'm confused on nidus

[proper barn]

I mean

[lament stirrup]

I mean, the Drifter took the place of a character in Duviri(also named the Drifter) so its not impossible to headcanon.

[proper barn]

Infested with tendrils

not my thing

[feral cape]

You're all freaks

[proper barn]

but i get it.

[vagrant bone]

its my thing

[proper barn]

thank you sir

[lament stirrup]

If Nidus is sterile.enough to walk around Cetus, he's sterile enough to walk on top of me.

[hexed oxide]

you are too vanilla

[feral cape]

I'm off to have my own weird thing where I coincidentally have only found siblings OF OTHER PEOPLE attractive its happened twice

[proper barn]

SIBLINGS OF PEOPLE

[feral cape]

Yes

[proper barn]

not your own lmao

[feral cape]

I should've specified

[lament stirrup]

Like me @ Arthur and Eleanor.

[proper barn]

yeah

[hexed oxide]

like, in between them ?

[feral cape]

I've found mara and crow from destiny attractive
Elsie bray and Anna bray attractive
And arthur and Eleanor

[proper barn]

that is what medicore said but i don't think so NIKO

[lament stirrup]

Not at the same time, but-

[proper barn]

Mediocre isn't that intresting

[feral cape]

And all I need is 30 minutes in a locked with any of the pairs

Elsie bray is also a robot

[proper barn]

anyway LORE

[feral cape]

Human consciousness in robot

LORE yea

[hexed oxide]

how long is eleanor's tongue ? according to the lore ?

[feral cape]

Uhhh did you know there's a void rift which if it collapses will consume the entire physical universe

[proper barn]

I think the like "I was always alone and i don't have a home or family" is also really really intresting tbh.

[lament stirrup]

Longer than her entire body.

[feral cape]

Long enough

[vagrant bone]

i suppose, talkin to the hex and finding out i had a sibling made me real interested in all that jazz

[proper barn]

yee

[lament stirrup]

To be fair, the Drifter spent most of their life in Duviri, not on the Zariman.

Well, the parts thry can remember anyway.

[proper barn]

Yeah

[hexed oxide]

ok now im actually interested how her tongue works, wrapped around her skull like that one bird ? or it compresses like a chameleon ?

[vagrant bone]

cuz thats never been mentioned except for 1 memory in duviri, and we have the pic of the parents holding a baby, which i would think since its in our room would be us? but our sibling looks a decent size taller in the memory implying we are the younger one?

its weird

[proper barn]

it wouldn't be suprising to me to learn we had many.

or at least 2.

[lament stirrup]

Strictly speaking its not confirmed who the other children in the memories are. They could be friends, adopted, etc.

[vagrant bone]

probably weird infested extra organ style thing it coils up in, but it also probably stretches too

[lament stirrup]

Ngl, I've been imagining it extending down her digestive tract.

[vagrant bone]

ayo.. in the bad way

[hexed oxide]

yeah this seems sci-fi enough, this is how her tongue works

[vagrant bone]

oooooohhhh biology

[lament stirrup]

Well no. When I imagine it in the bad way, its extending down my digestive tract.

[hexed oxide]

actually she can't talk so she may actually have something like this in her throat instead of vocal chords also yeah same vox

[vagrant bone]

thats the good way

whatwhosaidthatwhat

[hexed oxide]

spoiler just in case

[vagrant bone]

^///^ straight to ○//////○

Cant wait for that new years kiss

[north jolt]

Limbo? Dante? (Ignore he doesn't have a prime yet), Nekros? Atlas? There's like a bajillion frames that lore wise are probably stronger (physically or ability wise) then Nidus

[lament stirrup]

Ngl, I'm gping to miss out on the new years kiss solely because I couldn't decide on just one Hex member to romance.

[vagrant bone]

amir is easy to fluster if you try hard you might be able to squeek it out

[hexed oxide]

quincy has been incredibly flirty but i haven't even tried with him :/

[north jolt]

I don't even know how to get the kiss scene

[lament stirrup]

It turns out its the Winter reset and not Autumn. At least I think thats what DE said?

So, the start of next weeks schedule.

[north jolt]

So you gott romance someone before the year ends ?

[sharp acorn]

You get the kiss on new year's eve if you're dating one of the hex

[north jolt]

Ahh

[lament stirrup]

Its a testament to DE's writing skill that we're all this desperate to figure out how to get a kiss.

[woven coyote]

Yep

[sharp acorn]

Is anyone here trying to date Eleanor?

[woven coyote]

The writing team and the VAs were quite the match

[lament stirrup]

(Almost) Everyone is, as it turns out.

[sharp acorn]

I'm going for Aoi, I don't want a strange tentacle going down my throat even if I'm a void entity

[lament stirrup]

Is it insane that I find Aoi the least compelling because she seems the most mentally healthy?

[sharp acorn]

She kind of has to be, I'm pretty sure she's the one that keeps everyone together and is the team mechanic

[lament stirrup]

Like, all the KIM convo's with Aoi are normal chats friends have, meanwhile Arthur is losing his mind at the prospect of an eternal timeloop, Quincy is trying to integrate the concept of genuine kindness from a stranger into his extremely damaged world view, Amir is coping with killing dozens to hundreds of people every day, and Lettie is a medic in a warzone who's friend/crush could turn into a ravening monster if she slips up in her treatment.

Aoi just like.
Has to deal with mysogyny sometimes.

Which, don't get me wrong, is bad. Its just comparatively small.

[sharp acorn]

And all of them are pretty small compared to what our drifter has been through

[graceful swan]

Just stop expecting people on TikTok of all places to understand Warframe lore

[lament stirrup]

I don't think people on TikTok understand anything that isn't a conspiracy theory.

Which would make you think they'd understand Warframe's plot better than anyone, now that I consider it.

[silk atlas]

You'd think

[woven coyote]

Big mistake on tik tok

[sharp acorn]

I'm pretty sure our drifter has had to deal with everything the hex is currently going through (except maybe Aoi) and thus knows how all of them feels and is still sane

[lament stirrup]

If they can insist dropshipping is viable and that we're all fifth dimensional spirits that have descended to expeirence a pre determined mortal life, the minor nuances of Nidus' paragraphs worth of lore should be easy.

[lean garden]

they said earliest was 12 jan so its the next reset no?

[fathom elbow]

is the grey strain originating from deimos or 1999
listening to albrecht's sanctum notes confused me

[past pumice]

grey strain is from deimos

albrecht combines grey strain with techrot samples and the helminth strain to make the protoframes

[lament stirrup]

I don't believe he used Gray strain on the protoframes, just the vessels. Thats why they're huge.

[past pumice]

oh yeah, u right

protoframes are... techrot plus helminth?

[lament stirrup]

Most likely. Albrecht doesn't specify what he used, but a modified version of the Helminth is the most rrasonable possibility and the Techrot consider Eleanor kindred so the protframe strain has most likely been crossbred with techrot.

[fathom elbow]

so albrecht yoinked the ballas strain and combined it with the techrot to make the protos
then yoinked that and combined it with the grey strain to make the vessels?

[lament stirrup]

Yes.

[woven coyote]

Albrecht mentioned they were already primed
That probably means techrot i guess

[lament stirrup]

In hindsight, the Vessels being made with the Hex's genetic material might explain why we can Transfer to them using the Vessels.

Which. still doesn't explain how Loid got an Excalibur into the past.

Like, a single throw away line about that would be nice, DE.

[slow phoenix]

I assumed that someone (either us, albrecht, or loid) made that techrot helminth make a fresh excalibur for us to use as an anchor into 1999, then we went into Arthur to get there fully

[lament stirrup]

Yeah but like. Of all Warframe's implied details a perfectly modern excalibur showing up feels likes it owed at least a single sentence of explanation.

[north jolt]

Kaiju frame when

[north jolt]

I don't know how the time travel works at all :d

[zinc bronze]

Are there any fun facts anyone knows about the stalker?

[jade fog]

Anyone else get that ping just now?

[proper barn]

Why say this?

It's so like "my trauma is way more important than their trauma" also the drifter deals with their trauma in 1999 by talking about it.

[elfin flax]

Idk if fun but I was watching a lore video yesterday and long story short if you encounter stalker as Jade in a mission he won’t fight he’ll just leave

[lean garden]

they got a kid

[zinc bronze]

I did see a clip of him blocking a mini gun turret thing just to protect the kid bro needs father of the century

[zinc bronze]

I guess he doesn't want to sleep on the couch

[elfin flax]

Yeah and Jade is the mother of the century literally she gave everything to create that child and even in her death she powered Stalker through that fight with baby

They’re both so goated

[sharp acorn]

He was talking about how Aoi's having to deal with misogyny is small compared to what the other hex had to deal with to which I said that our drifter had to deal with everything the hex are dealing with besides maybe Aoi in his own time where he had absolutely no one until he escaped duviri and even then was thrown into a galactic war on top of everything else. I wasn't doing it to sound rude to the hex I was saying it as a counter to what he said

[proper barn]

Oh gotcha.

Then I agree

[lament stirrup]

Well, if you're playing a femme drifter you can toss mysogyny onto the pile.
You know.
For funsies.

[sharp acorn]

Technically you can be misogynist to any gender it's just more talked about with women

[glacial bough]

Not techinically since that term is specific to woman

[lament stirrup]

Well its misandry if you do it to a man. The word mysogyny is derived from the "gyn" suffix, refers to women.

[sharp acorn]

Then call it sexism or whatever it's still proves my point

You can be a girl and be sexist towards a guy and vice versa

[limber pulsar]

only if you ignore the entirety of human history

[strange turtle]

I think it’s meant to be like a personal choice for your character, rather than defined Drifter lore? Like how with the parent’s, there’s multiple choices on how they ||were killed||

[sharp acorn]

What do you mean ignoring the entity of human history, are you trying to tell me that no woman ever, in the history of all human kind has been in some shape or form sexist to a man. Because I can u guarantee it has happened at least once and the guy felt that he couldn't talk about it because he felt people would think of him as weak or insecure

We only talk about it in the context of men being sexist to women because women are more open to sharing that kind of stuff then men

And just because we men don't talk about that stuff doesn't mean it doesn't happen or doesn't effect us, society just makes us feel like we have to keep up our strong image and if we come out about something like that then we aren't truly men

[gloomy anchor]

Did they change the way hunhow looks in the Natah quests or is my memory bad

My memory is bad nvm, it always looked like a corrupted lotus

[main crane]

Yeah he always looked the same

[gloomy anchor]

Not the full sentient look you see later after we meet hunhow

I popped open a old Warframe lore video to check lol

Mynameisbyf

[north jolt]

Or the helminth chair

[north jolt]

Lotus that's been left in the oven for too long

[lament stirrup]

Why does Hunhow have a burnt Lotus avatar when he's at the bottom of an ocean?

[sharp acorn]

Probably as foreshadowing but also because he could see through the lotus and anything she was currently thinking about in that moment

He couldn't sift through her memories but when she started thinking about the reservoir hunhow immediately knew it's location

[lament stirrup]

That makes a surprising amount of sense.

[old dome]

...idt this topic is fitting for warframe lore...... but thats not how sexism works. its a systematic oppression towards women that heavily benefits men, so no. women cant be sexist towards men, men cant experience it bc they benefit from the system.

...very much what lotus & margulis went through at the hands of ballas, actually.

[lament stirrup]

Strictly speaking, you're describing patriarchy. Sexism occurs on an individual level.

[old dome]

sexism is part of the patriarchy... from my understanding anyway.

[normal mountain]

That's a very one-sided view of things, pal

[old dome]

ive said what i said so anyway moving on.

idt i got an answer to my question earlier,,, do yall think warframes have a hivemind mentality/link due to the infestation strain theyre all made of??

[graceful swan]

It started from it but times have changed since then and now it can happen with both

[polar bobcat]

Technically they all are an individual in some form, all having their own individuality like their stances and abilities
But I could also argue that the tenno is sort of like a hive mind cause they all are united by lotus/ control multiple warframes at their disposal

[graceful swan]

Helminth is a strain so it has a hivemind that’s all we really can know certain Infestation do know Warframes are Infested and mention it

[lament stirrup]

Having the same adoptove Mom doesn't make you a hivemind?

[zinc bronze]

True

[wraith coral]

They stole prime railjack and concept art voruna.

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[feral cape]

This is confusing individualistic and systematic both exist just ones worse

[feral cape]

Any form of bigotry can occur on a systematic or individualistic level

[north ferry]

Hive Minds tend to be presented weird, for most science fiction they seem either a coalesced mind or dominant mind. There's no real idea of what specific kind of hivemind Infested is as I can say.

[north jolt]

Infestation isn't much simplier. You got the main infestation that we fight and kill on the regular, you got the helminth strain that basically works for us, but is still infestation. Then you got the gray strain on Deimos seperate from both main and helminth and if the worms are any indication, even fights itself on the regular

The techrot is pretty similar to main and mutualist strains but being in 1999 is not physically connected to the main's hivemind far as Im aware

[upbeat glacier]

So I'm confused

There's a quote when your talking with the hex about no aliens existing

Isn't the infested alien?

[latent moon]

Nope. Man made

Only humans could make something so efficient at killing themselves

Question of my own, the Heart of Deimos powers the Warframe's powers, yeah? If not, what does it do?

[upbeat glacier]

Makes everyone confused lol

[lament stirrup]

The Heart functions as a conduit for void energy, powering all void based technology in the system. Including warframes.

[latent moon]

Aight that makes sense. It only ever said "your power" or something similar in the quest, very unclear xD

[graceful swan]

It's what makes you special, you know that, right? All thanks to my father. It pumps the arteries of 'the here' and the Void. The Entrati family maintained it for an age. But it's breaking down, and the only idiot that knows how to fix it... the man I used to call my husband.

MOTHER IN RESPONSE TO THE HEART?

[latent moon]

Ye that

I think it was written before Mara Lohk were an idea xD

[lament stirrup]

Actually, the heart is attached to the Wall of Lohk.

[latent moon]

Anyways, time to go do 44 Extractors. siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

[upbeat glacier]

What are the chances of getting more irl themed guns?

Considering we have the Glock, AK, Nagant M1895 , the MP 69, and the uzi

[lament stirrup]

We might get lucky in exhoes of 1999? Otherwise its up in the air how much more 1999 centric content we'll get.

[upbeat glacier]

Hear me out

[lament stirrup]

I like the way you think.

[upbeat glacier]

Of course I really want a Warframe version of the Browning 50 cal

[feral cape]

What

[proper barn]

Helminth specificly doesn't have a hive mind. @old dome

[proper barn]

oh i was trying to reply to you as well lmao.

[graceful swan]

lol

[north jolt]

*HK MK23
*Webley break top revolver
not sure where's even a Uzi or MPi 69?

[north jolt]

What if it has a hive mind with other helminths? and some of them talk trash about their operator's builds?

[proper barn]

lul lmao no the way helminth works i'm pretty sure is it is a infestation raised specifcilly to be obiendent and outside of the greater hive mind.

[north jolt]

I know :p but its funny to imagine them all talking to each other about their own master's arsenals

"uhhhg, here they go with another Nourish build 🙄"

[normal mountain]

Helminth chatting with other Helminth via KIM

[topaz dune]

Alright, ive been wondering how the drifter "works" and after poorly googling it ive decided to come to ask the help of the lore masters.

So i get that itd been thousands of years since the orokin were killed and the tenno went to the big farm in the night sky, so they still look like children, but if the drifter is doing loops, is this drifter just a normal person who hasnt died in this loop till this point? Or is time still normally affecting them and they age better than a hot dog in resin?

Second, how does the immortality of the drifter work? Doing the kim messages ive sorta figured that the other members of hex at least KNOW he's immortal and have seen it so it cant be that the drifter reverts time to not take an apex tank shell to the face, but like, how does it work? Like if they say, shot themselves in the head, what happens? A sudden disappearing act followed by them rematerialzing from thin air? Or does the wound just... heal?

Or is this all wrong and everytime the drifter dies they restart at duviri as a child have do it all over again?

[proper barn]

Okay The Drifter Is very interesting. Cus they are the ones that made duviri. They originally like just played in duviri normally no death just like actually using it as a play ground. At some point they started to resent it and that's when like Thrax took over and started killing them every day. Also the Void is werid time stuff so that explains the age and not dying. But the void can just stop you from dying if it wants or bring you back. As seen by the holdfasts.

[feral cape]

How are the tenno immortal

A Tenno possesses a degree of immortality via their Oro, a manifestation of their consciousness:

In the Conclave, Teshin tells us how our Oro is "the binding force for an enemy who, like the Tenno, can survive death." This enemy is the Sentients.

Eleanor, who can see all our memories, tells us she doesn't think we can die—at least, not permanently.

Albrecht Entrati mentions Oro, claiming "It was not necessary to explore queasy debates about the Oro; animal minds simply lacked the full distinction of a singular persona," meaning Oro is a quality possessed by any being with a "singular persona."

This aligns with real-world arguments about animal consciousness, suggesting that Oro is likely a form of consciousness itself.

The Sentients can persist after death by separating their consciousness, or Oro, into fragments, making the death of one fragment not affect the whole.

Eleanor compares the Void to a realm of souls. The Void is also the source of the Tenno's power, which allows them to do "impossible things."

The Drifter, in his conversation with Eleanor, states that "Tenno existence doesn't end when the physical body is destroyed," implying the Tenno utilize a metaphysical aspect to persist after death"

Tenno can separate their Oro from their body, allowing them to persist after death and, presumably, rebuild or reform a body via unknown means, likely involving Void energy.

Killing a Tenno would require the ability to crush their consciousness after death.

[limber pulsar]

from my understanding, drifter aged normally in duviri until as an adult thrax took control and locked them into an endless execution loop that had them continuing to mentally age for thousands of years but couldnt age physically. after leaving duviri they should go back to aging normally, but after getting their void powers in the new war theyre basically unkillable

[topaz dune]

So the body just sorta stays there after say, a clean head shot from a sniper? And a new one forms somewhere nearby? Like, im more trying to understand what happens when the drifter "dies" could we fill the streets with drifter bodies? Make choke points with them?

[proper barn]

No? Cuz they like void disintegrate

We see it happen to Teshin.

[feral cape]

It could also just be like a guardian depending on how destroyed the body is you either make a new one or heal the old one

[proper barn]

Also Teshin literally dies in the quest and is fine in the next loop.

So like WHO KNOWS

[feral cape]

Vinny I think campingcarl was responding to me

[limber pulsar]

you see what happens when you die in game as drifter. no convuluted regrowing bodies, just turning into void energy plain and simple

[proper barn]

Ballas also says we can't die it's why he throws us into the void so we are like "trapped" cuz he can't kill us.

[proper barn]

I mean sure? I had to answer though.

[charred patio]

as far as I know, acolytes dont have any restriction like stalker with jade, right?

so does stalker like, berate them for fighting his wife?

[humble sierra]

Acolyte lore is weird

[proper barn]

OH GOD Not the ACOLYTES

We need lore on them.

[topaz dune]

So the drifter has to "regrow" their body in a nearby warframe?

[proper barn]

We don't really have any.

[limber pulsar]

nothing is regrown

[proper barn]

Not during duviri. The day just resets after they die and they are alive again. Like teshin in the quest.

[topaz dune]

Well there is a period where the drifter cant come out to play after dying

[charred patio]

acolytes cant win

if they win the fight, that means they beat up the boss' wife, which mean they gonna lose their job
if they lose the fight, that means they got beaten up by the boss' wife

[topaz dune]

But in 1999, the time period is a year, does the hex have to wait a year for thebdrifter to come back?

[proper barn]

No cuz at that point

[topaz dune]

There are times its better to let the bosses wife win

[proper barn]

He has the same power as the operator.

[limber pulsar]

1999 isnt duviri

[proper barn]

Yeah.

The Drifter gets like the operator/tenno powers in new war kinda but also in duviri with lotus' hand.

[limber pulsar]

drifter immortality from time loop resets and drifter immortality from void magic transference are unrelated

[topaz dune]

Yea i get that. Im just wondering what happens to the drifter when he dies. So far, i get his body becomes space dust, and his consciousness is like... around, but the whole new body thing is what i dont get. Cause in game, it clearly takes time to die as a drifter, and then use the drifter again. What happens during that time. Is the drifter just in the nearest warframe doing what they do best?

[limber pulsar]

after getting their full powers in the new war, drifter doesnt die. simple as that

[topaz dune]

Ok, so when my drifter eats a apex tank shell and disappears, whats happening there?

[limber pulsar]

transference static. the void magic no worky so good for a bit

[charred patio]

boss wife got angry cause boss never help her with taking care of the baby
so boss wife used the poor employees as punching bags

[topaz dune]

I hate that in this game we can commit war crimes but i cant say naughty words in the discord....

[topaz dune]

As i understood it, in the origin system it was like a force ghost thing that we projected from the frame, it dies and for a bit we loss that connection. But in 1999 its pretty clear that the drifter is right there with everyone. I mean, theres no magic toliet they can sit on and control a warframe

[limber pulsar]

youre not a force ghost in the origin system either. operator/drifter can basically teleport to the warframe theyre piloting

[topaz dune]

Huh, ok. I guess that checks out. I just always figured we were hot glued to the seat

[proper barn]

They are in the mirror

Somehow anyway.

[proper barn]

We are kinda before the war within.

[restive river]

Prior to the war within the operator just chills in the chair like how they used to chill in the cryopod

[topaz dune]

I figured that was a more "this is what you are" kinda thing

[limber pulsar]

the chair is just a comfy place to sit now

[proper barn]

Nah we see void and stuff through mirrors and things in diemos

[topaz dune]

Really? Cause it looks TERRIBLE

[restive river]

The chair was how we could do transference but it’s innate now so we’re chillin’

[proper barn]

So Like mirrors can be "other worlds" kinda. We see that in a few things.

Like Diemos and stuff.

[restive river]

Void mirrors

Just show like
The void

Though it does seem the void relative to the mirror’s position in realspace

Unfortunately the example of that has been bugged for a while

[limber pulsar]

its more like a magic mirror that shows the drifter “inside” the warframe than a literal mirror dimension the drifter goes to or whatever

[topaz dune]

Plus 90% of the time i use my drifter to walk around the backrooms

[restive river]

I assume you’re talking about the backroom mirror
I dont think that’s really like. Explained

[proper barn]

Yeah

[restive river]

If I had to guess it shows the Drifter because its the analogue to the chair

[topaz dune]

I feel like its just a reflection of who are on the inside. Or just a way for you to customize the drifter in 1999

[restive river]

Like
From a gameplay standpoint not lore lol

[proper barn]

Yeah

[topaz dune]

Oh for sure.

[restive river]

You can say its whatever cause we have no lore on it
Tis just a funky mirror

[topaz dune]

From ikea

[restive river]

Albrecht got a cool mirror from ikea

Thats the lore mhm

[topaz dune]

Though he could have brough the furniture with him. There are some chairs from the sanctum there

[restive river]

He likely brought it or made it tbh

Everything thats the entrati style is likely something he brought or made

We dont have the details on how exactly he could bring things but he does have a foundry so in theory he would mostly just need that

[limber pulsar]

whens the secret lore on the mannequin with amirs glasses

[topaz dune]

Though the thought of him sitting on the floor with paper instructions and assembling the chairs and what not is pretty funny

[topaz dune]

I thoughg for sure that was going to be a big version of those articulas or what ever theyre called, like on the second floor. So sad i couldnt change it in the decorations

[restive river]

I can’t tell which idea I like more
Kalymos helping or stealing pieces and making the process more difficult

[topaz dune]

Why do you think he left her behind?

[restive river]

She had to help us ig

[limber pulsar]

“loid. i need you to send some ikea packages to 1999 with me. i promise this is instrumental in defeating the indifference”

[topaz dune]

No no, cause she kept taking a leg or something

[topaz dune]

Also, the large tube tv ever made

[north jolt]

"Loid I need you to also make a few lunches for me to take back to 1999, and make sure you include those little cheeze snacks you know I like. Thnx wuv u <3"

[upbeat glacier]

Name one good thing ballas has done

[north ferry]

Died

[latent moon]

I mean you're not wrong

I find it odd that the Stalker comes after us for killing the Phorid

Well, I suppose he just uses assassinations as an excuse to attack us, so... xD

[north ferry]

Pretty much. I mean, gameplay mechanics and all.

[upbeat glacier]

Gotta pay the bills

He's a single father

[latent moon]

Oh so that's why he still attacks us xD

I always thought it was cause he was like "Hey remember those times I tried to kill you? Let's do it again for old times sake, buddy!"

[upbeat glacier]

I always say that he's still on hunhow payroll

[tall echo]

He made warframes

[north ferry]

Did he or did he just take control of the project and built on someone else's work.

[glacial bough]

He did

[north ferry]

I'm pretty sure it was actually Hatsune Miku

[upbeat glacier]

Crap

I just realized ballas has the greatest comeback

Whenever we say anything ballas can counter with

He fricked our mom

[hexed oxide]

did he ?

[main crane]

Margulis was his former lover

[tall echo]

Adoptive mom

[cosmic ridge]

"You may have fricked our mother, but she chose us over you."

[hexed oxide]

didn't she choose dying over him ?

[storm cedar]

lol... ok this is quite ridiculous... But i have an answer to this... And i wrote it down yesterday already...

Suggesting: What if the Stalker and the Helminth had some sort of exchange? I'm not going to say more than this. 😉

[latent moon]

Another odd thing is that Albrecht created both Inter-galaxy travel AND time travel, and yet Orokin society had reverted back to Alchemy. They discovered TIME TRAVEL before they rediscovered the Periodic Table.

[storm cedar]

The Orokin lost a LOT of knowledge during the Orokin Slaughter probably

which caused them unable to finish some of their past works, I suppose

[lean garden]

The kind of alchemy that the orokin jailed a dude for isnt the hocus pocus of the medieval ages

[glacial bough]

They didn't revert to Alchemy at all though? Orokin society was entirely based on their supreme tech and science advantage

[latent moon]

But have you seen a periodic table in warframe? I rest my case.

(I'm joking btw, in case that wasn't clear xD)

[hexed oxide]

what about javi's scribbles ?

[latent moon]

Who in the what?

[hexed oxide]

lavos' master ? the guy he was made to torture then execute before betraying the orokin ?

[latent moon]

Ooooooh

I didn't know his name

Wait did Javi rediscover the periodic table? xD

That'd be funny xD

[hexed oxide]

idk but he was good enough at alchemy that the orokin thought he could survive the jade light. if he was that good he must have known an element or two

[latent moon]

God that is a funny headcanon xD

[hexed oxide]

nvm this doesn't convey scientifical knowledge as much as philosophy :/

nvm he did know science

[wraith coral]

Its weird to imagine lavos concept art was supposed to be cyte-09

I wonders if their synergy is rlly good like gauss and grendel

[hexed oxide]

lore wise i don't think so, lavos was just a prison warden and cyte a top tier spy/assassin

[woeful nest]

So... I'm still unsure of what Albrecht's main goal during 1999 was

Was he really only ||trying to get to Tau, in an effort to physically get away from the Man in The Wall? Even though I... don't think distance matters to him?||

[old dome]

nope. she was tossed to the 7 orokin by ballas... who was also one of the 7.

[old dome]

idt alby realizes that.

for all his intelligence i really dont think he realizes any of that.

[woeful nest]

...Smartest man in the universe, everyone

Who am I kidding, he's an Orokin still. If there was set of A through D choices on a test, they'd pick E every time

[woven coyote]

As loid explained
Albrecht likes being cryptic about his clues, doubt it's as simple as that

[quartz sky]

There's a quote used famously in sci-fi fantasy that the only difference between science and magic is that magic is just science we don't understand yet

[lean garden]

Yes, but modern "alchemy" and orokin alchemy are two different things

For one, the orokin one worked

[quartz sky]

But I think about the scribbles left around the entrance to the backrooms a lot.

Lol yeah

I think they designed a lot of the orokin technology to be similar to historical alchemy to distance it from what we know technology looks like to really emphasize how advanced they got

There are references to elemental alchemy and different words borrowed here and there.

I just woke up but I can go digging today

So perhaps it can be interpreted as orokin science (with references to alchemy), and orokin alchemy as two separate things

[lament stirrup]

Without the Drifter, the plan was to gather data he could use to make the vessels (and other potential bio weapons) and prevent thr Man In The Wall from accessing 1999 with a nuclear reactor's worth of radioactive fallout (worth noting this most likely happened in the original timeline.)
When the Drifter arrived, he shifted focus to using their timepowers and friendship with the hex as a repellant instead of the reactor's meltdown (albeit while simeltanously keeping the nuclear meltdown as a backup).
Mind you, since he's an Orokin, his idea of fosterring empathy is bringing the Drifter to the moment of their deaths and personally murdering Amir and then them.

I'm autistic and gay so I basically know Albrecht's every move before he makes them /j

I don't think he ever needed to detonate the city to leave it. He just didn't want the Man In The Wall.to be able to access the past. Which, despite the absolute insanity that comes with nuking a city, is a smart decision.

[quartz sky]

After playing through 1999 I think Albrecht actually was pretending to personally kill Amir. Since his heart explodes.

I think he did it to be dramatic and create a villain in that moment to foster camaraderie

[quartz sky]

Also same lmao, love the WF community

[lament stirrup]

Honestly, with the hindsight of the finale, I intepreted it as Albrecht being impatient for him to die so the Drifter would leave faster. That or Albrecht's disturbed idea of a mercy killing.

[quartz sky]

Tbh that's probably more accurate

He is historically a d*ck

Stop having a panic attack and die already lmao

[lament stirrup]

What's crazy about Albrecht is thst he makes such a concious effort to be a good person in his notes and then you get to the heat the moment and he's like "Drifter, shoot this possessed and maybe innocent woman to keep the Man In The Wall out of this time period (that I'm already nuking a city to keep out). Drifter, they gave their lives for you (and definitly not to stop me from blowing up a city) we have to go to Tau now. Drifter, I miss my husband."

[dire mountain]

I think part of it was goading drifter into the time loop shenanigans

[quartz sky]

He does tend to be pretty manipulative at times

He does miss his husband though lmao

[graceful swan]

Not enough to return to him

[lament stirrup]

I mean, in Albrecht's defense (can't believe I said that) there's sort of an eldritch terror with a penchant for destroying relationships pursuing him.

The Drifter explicitly notes that the parents on the Zariman went insane first and thinks its because the Man In The Wall goes out of its way to target people with something to lose. And to ensure their children would be emotionally vulnerable enough to make a deal. (Incidentally, called it)

[quartz sky]

Once again, I'm a gay autistic nerd, but I was watching designs with 3d printed patterns onto fabric and they look extremely similar to that hexagon pattern we see in a lot of the orokin stuff

[jolly briar]

Quick question to settle a debate, is teshin dead?

[lament stirrup]

Define "dead".

Its a negotiable term in warframe.