lore-discussion

[north ferry]

Yes I am probably wrong but so what.

[restive river]

Thats not what incarnons are

Incarnons are the result of Cav’s conceptual embodiment on how to improve a weapon

[north ferry]

Yes.

Well I think my idea is cooler XD

[restive river]

Well, in my extensive downtime, I've been having thoughts about weapons. How I could upgrade 'em. Give 'em a sprinkle of Void magic. And guess what? The Void did what the Void does. Took my ideas and made them real. How about that.

[north ferry]

Never encountered that. Neat.

[restive river]

I don’t think the tenno would go for that tbh

Its the incarnon genesis inbox message

Incarnon Geneses

When the Tenno obtains their first Incarnon Genesis, Cavalero will send them an inbox message with information on how they work.

Inbox message:
Incarnon Genesis

Hey.

Heard you been grubbing around in the Zariman's backyard. That little tinpot 'kingdom'.

Well, in my extensive downtime, I've been having thoughts about weapons. How I could upgrade 'em. Give 'em a sprinkle of Void magic. And guess what? The Void did what the Void does. Took my ideas and made them real. How about that.

So if you've picked up a… let's call it an Incarnon Genesis, why not? An Incarnon Genesis, bring it to me and I'll get it installed for ya.

Slaughter awaits,
Cavalero

PS: Yonta says I need to say this very clearly: I cannot adapt a weapon you do not own. I will need both the Incarnon Genesis AND the weapon it applies to. Understood? I am not running a charity here.

[proper barn]

it's GUN AUTISM

weaponized.

[lament stirrup]

Actually, that's Harrow.

[proper barn]

That's normal autism and it's Rell not harrow.

[lament stirrup]

No like.
Harrow is a gunplay based frame. And Rell is his Operator. So.
Gun autism.

[proper barn]

Shhhhhhhhhh

He's a preacher frame

The gun is just his way of dealing out his virtue

[tall echo]

None of harrow's abilities are gun-exclusive

[somber obsidian]

Ohhhhh @lean garden

What primes shouldn’t exist again.

[glacial bough]

only Revenant

[feral cape]

Only rev

And maybe quincy actually depends how they handle it

Not quincy ctye

Ah no not ctye

I reread the email

[glacial bough]

Nothing should be stopping Cyte

[feral cape]

Albrecht can prime it

[brittle siren]

grain of salt: does anyone think Xaku Prime is the improved version of normal Xaku, but instead making a new fresh one, Entrati just edit the base one?

[proper barn]

Maybe

[brittle siren]

because most frame isnt hollow like Xaku

(obvious reason)

unless Albrecht know how to make human body become pure void energy (and sustain it) and slap some gold armor on, I don't think Xaku Prime can be make from scratch due to how unique they are

[glacial bough]

You absolutely could, them just being bones doesn't really mean much

[brittle siren]

the thing is, Xaku Prime has no bone, it all gold parts and a pure void energy skeleton

[limber pulsar]

i dont think any warframe really has bones in the traditional sense. theyre all weird masses of infestation and metal. a void energy skeleton is barely even a step up from that

[brittle siren]

it kinda is, og Xaku has physical skeleton, while the Prime does not, it just all void energy inside

It basically Mordekaiser in LoL

[jolly briar]

Nidus technically

And caliban

[brittle siren]

So my theory is Al did sth to make all the physical bone to become void energy but still kinda solid

[brittle siren]

Nah Nidus not "shouldn't exist"

Tbh he could be the prototype of all frame

[limber pulsar]

absolutely 0 reason why nidus prime or caliban prime couldnt exist

[jolly briar]

I'd think that caliban falls in the same category as rev (prime wise)

[proper barn]

Not true

[proper barn]

Caliban was made in the old war

So he could.

[limber pulsar]

caliban was made during the old war, theres plenty of opportunites for there to be a prime version, either from ballas or even erra

[proper barn]

This is not true. This is a old theory that was immediately disproven.

[glacial bough]

Revenant is the only one that explicitly shouldn't exist

All other frames were around duing the Old War and have reasonable explanations for a prime

[jolly briar]

Fair, ig there's no reason erra cant If they can do the whole- archon thing

[limber pulsar]

nidus is just a warframe that has the infestationn more outwardly visible than normal, nothing else special about him

[proper barn]

Yeah the prime was left on diemos for a long time.

That's his lore.

[normal mountain]

I'd say Dagath Prime shouldn't exist
But it's possible that Ballas manufactured a copy of Dagath and made improvements

[proper barn]

I want dagath prime to have a ghost face

Like her glyphs do

[normal mountain]

I believe you've told me that before

[proper barn]

Probably

You even see her face on the walls

Like Ballas gave her a smile and that unnerved the couple also the fact at that point she was basically furniture.

As interesting as having a relationship with a couch. Also it wasn't forbidden anymore.

[normal mountain]

Until she wasn't
And made the Orokin couple just as faceless as they made her

That's part of the reason that I think Dagath technically shouldn't have a Prime
Her powers came from that very specific betrayal

[proper barn]

Ehhh

[lament stirrup]

Almost every warframe's powers are specirically tied to their background or personality.
Doesn't stop the player from making copies or Ballas from making primes. (Assuming they weren't primes to start with)

[normal mountain]

Huh
Dagath could have been Primed from the beginning
Why didn't I think of that, the Orokin couple were very high-ranking and influential

They could have easily paid for Prime treatment

[lament stirrup]

It would ne incredibly funny if they wasted the extra resources making the unicorn they were never gonna send into combat a prime.

[normal mountain]

That would be funny

[fathom elbow]

Is there more than one zariman?

[proper barn]

UHHHHHHHHHHHHH

GOOD QUESTION.

[lament stirrup]

Well,
you see
Eternalism.

From the ambient dialogue and New War implications, I think the Zariman we run missions on is actually every Zariman from every alternate dimension merged into one.
Which is by far the most insane explanation for the changing tileset I have

[proper barn]

i dont KNOw DUDE

[normal mountain]

Pretty sure that's confirmed to be exactly what's going on

[proper barn]

that is not confirmed.

this is like asking "where is ablretch and is the albretch we have seen even real?" LIKE IDK MAN

[lament stirrup]

I don't think any character flat out says it. But its one of those warframe things where its implied so heavily that it would be weird if it wasn't true.

[proper barn]

why does Only Kalymos like is the one helping us the mosty directly IDK EITHER. is Kalymos like somehow more important or something IDK

[lament stirrup]

Cats can just do that, actually.

[proper barn]

what is our over under

on Kalymos actually being able to talk all along?

[lament stirrup]

I assume she'd have done it by now.

I have trouble belieiving a cat wouldn't say swear words given the opportunity.

[proper barn]

idk ZAISH

[lament stirrup]

She's a cat with heterophobia in her eyes. She definitly spends her free time thinking of slurs for straight people.

[proper barn]

You think the drifter is straight?

you think any of the hex are straight? lmao.

[glacial bough]

I mean, they most likely are without the overlay of the game

[proper barn]

no

[glacial bough]

Well, most of them. Ain't no way Eleanor isn't somwhere there

[tall echo]

Sexuality undefined

[lament stirrup]

They're videogame characters. They don't ecist without the overlay of a videogame?
Quincy canonically has flings with both men and women.

[proper barn]

You can't look at me straight in the face and tell me Arthur or Quincy isn't Bi.

Quincy mainly.

[lament stirrup]

And the Drifter is meant to be a blank slate (albeit not a self insert)

[proper barn]

Arthur is more of vibe.

I mean Drifter like even says in the conversations that like gender and stuff ain't real it's so funny.

i love it.

[glacial bough]

I can easily see Amir. Quincy...wouldn't be opposed, yeah

[proper barn]

Just levels of abstration man

[north jolt]

Valkyr is still kinda convolute to me, but I also remember what Darzia says in one of her dialogue lines about how not all frames got the "prime treatment" at first. Granted on it's own honestly doesn't clarify much and kinda requires filling in some holes with your own headcanon on which frimes started out primed and which ones got primed later on. But it's something to keep in mind at least

However it is funny how even in his prime trailer Ballas had no idea wtf Revenant's deal was

[normal mountain]

That will never get old for me
NEVER

[north jolt]

Its basically DE giving up on trying to make Revenant make any sense by turning is his-lack-of-sensemaking into a fundamental part of his lore

I have my own idea on what probably happened with him, but its purely headcanon

But the pet-theory I currently entertain is that we just don't know what the "original" Revenant" (primed or otherwise) was actually like. Somehow, at some point he got corrupted by the eidolon, but as opposed to dying fused with part of it and turned into the thing we now call "Revenant". The Orokin saw this and thought "hey that's pretty neato!" and decided to replicate him via prime treatment

[lament stirrup]

Ballas: "We should create void channeling warriors to combat the sentients. :)"
The sentients, now consuming and adapting to one of said warriors:

[north jolt]

Technically wouldn't be either the first or last time, depending on the timeline

But like I said, strictly headcanon and not even the only one I have. Less convoluted theory is that original Revenant was always meant to be part eidolon, fight fire with fire and all, but "died" at some point and his prime just got pooped out by the void through eternalism shenanigans sometime afterwards and the Orokin just went along with it

[lament stirrup]

How did Erra cure Caliban's void allergy?

[north jolt]

Gained natural immunity to it by being a warframe hybrid maybe?

[lament stirrup]

would be a logical conclusion to grafting sentient heads to warframe bodies. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[north jolt]

But far as convoluted lore goes, and this might be a dumb question but Im still confused by it: WTF was even the point of Alad V's experiments onValkyr in regards to her lore? like if she was just always the angry screamy beserker, what did getting flayed and picked apart actually change?

[lament stirrup]

If the Gersemi skin is canon, it removed her skin.

Like, her actual skin, not the cosmetic

[north jolt]

That's the thing, the Gersemi skin afaik is suppose to be her base form before being cut up like a ribeye, BUT did her base form come before her primed form?

[lament stirrup]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[north jolt]

Was she already just angry and violent before the experiments?

How long has Alad V be experimenting on her before we even came around?

[lament stirrup]

I mean, if Umbra is any indication, all the original warframes were horrifically tortured and violently insane.

[north jolt]

True but least as I understand, her being experimented on by Alad was framed as being pretty relevant to her lore and character but, I don't WTF the point of any of it was now

[lament stirrup]

Assuming the real world timeline is accurate to the in game timeline, and that Alad nabbed her at the earliest possible date, a few days.
Which almost definitly wasn't the writers intention, but is incredibly funny in a morbid way.

[north jolt]

I've thought about like, what if somehow Alad V greased some blue palms and got a hold of Valkyr, a sort of "betrayal from her POV but both Alad and the Orokin getting something they wanted from the exchange. But, timeline wise that makes basically no sense, as cool of a backstory I think it would be

And then her prime could just be explained by the Orokin being slimy sleazy bastards they are, tried to frame it as a "unintentional" loss and created the prime to honor her legacy

But again, doesn't really match up with the known timeline at all

[lament stirrup]

It would be entirely in character for Alad V to invent time travel just for a business deal that immediatly blew up in his face, if the Amalgams and Infested Mutslists are any indication.

[lean garden]

The issue with this is that revenant emerged in the present day，so no orokin around to do that

A possible hc you can explore is what if someone who can see timelines were to have made rev p and is semi-aligned with the orokin

[north jolt]

Well yes, but no. If you're talking about the quest that's a undead version of him we get to see on the plains. But he existed prior to that and was specifically created to combat the eidolons until he kinda just disappeared one night, which afterwards is when Gara stepped up to fill his role, presumably

No wait other way around. Gara killed it first THEN Revenant came around to keep the Eidolon dead every night

[lament stirrup]

He tried communicating with an Eidolon and it responded by using him as an anchor to escape. Revenant prevented it from escaping by jumping into the lake, which presumably delayed its escape? We still see the Teralyst wandering around, so presumably it got out eventually anyway.

[north jolt]

I think Mask of the Revenant is what initially introduces us to Eidolons isn't it?

[lean garden]

Warden and revenant may be of the same "stock" but rev p is definitely not warden p

[lament stirrup]

The Eidolons came with the Plains of Eidolon update.

Mask of the lost one, along with the other two eidolons, were a later update.

[north jolt]

But dont you have to complete the quest before you can actually do eidolon hunts?

[lament stirrup]

No, you actually have to two enough eidolon hunts to reach rank 2 with the quills before you can do Revenants quest.

[north jolt]

And yeah, I think "Warden" is long gone forever, assuming he was any different from the Revenant we currently know

[lament stirrup]

Plus the Teralyst is a set piece during Saya's Vigil.

[north jolt]

Ahh, been ages since I played those quests

[lean garden]

Which goes back to the point: its hard to hc that the orokin thought that rev is cool and made a prime given that the first time rev is seen is when theyre all dead

[north jolt]

Well he would of had to of been created sooner then that cause, who's created NEW frames after the fall of the Orokin?

We only have one example of someone non-Orokin creating a warframe (the sentients with Caliban) and even that was likely done at some point during the old war

[glacial bough]

No one has. There have been no brand new frames made as the only person besides us who could is Albrecht

[lament stirrup]

We know the Warden was made pre fall, he didn't become Revenant until he was drenched in the Eidolon lake for a few centuries.

And the timeline would imply Lotus sent him to guard the plains, since she was the one who gave the Tenno evacuation orders during Gara's backstory.

[north jolt]

I get that, but do we know how different the two actually were in the first place? besides Revenant technically being undead. Like do we know if the Warden actually had different powers and maybe even a different appearance?

[lament stirrup]

I assume the Warden had different powers, since Revenants 1, 3, and 4 are explicitly sentient based.

[north jolt]

Then "Warden" is basically gone forever

[glacial bough]

Yes, Warden has at least 2 different powers from Revenant, his 2 and 4

His 1 and 3 still fall in with other themes (namely the development theme of Vampire)

[lament stirrup]

His 1 summons dissassembled vomvalysts over his thralls and his 3 is explicitlt described as a wall of sentient energy. So presumably they're at least altered from the originals.

[lean garden]

Like I said, pick someone who can see into the future

[glacial bough]

They're certainly altered by the Eidolon energy, those can just exist without Eidolon influence

[north jolt]

Well the Unum was involved in all of this too

[upbeat glacier]

Would you all label tenno as walking apocalypses?

[lament stirrup]

The Orokin certainly would.

[lean garden]

Thats who the writers have off the record, identified as the creator of rev p

[upbeat glacier]

Like honestly I feel like lore wise if we wanted to we could bring everyone to their knees

[north jolt]

Considering they tend to bring war crimes and eldritch horrors wherever they go, yes

[lean garden]

Now if only the two dinguses who had the narrative team tell them that get a damn recording we could enshrine that as a word of God

[feral cape]

Guh?

[lament stirrup]

I mean, the continued existence of the grineer and corpus suggests otherwise.

[upbeat glacier]

Like no cap I believe if lotus commanded it, we could probably revert the galaxy back to the stone age

[feral cape]

We do not have the power to do that

[north jolt]

I mean lore wise, Gara was able to nuke whatever the Eidolon was before it got nuked, sooooo

[glacial bough]

We're quality over quanity, but our enemies quantity beats us in the end

[feral cape]

No

Unum made the bomb

[lament stirrup]

Gara blew herself up in the process. Using a bomb someone else made.

[feral cape]

Also if we do decide to try and glass sol I do not think the unum would let it happen

[lament stirrup]

Being the Unum must suck, imagine knowing you made the bomb thats going to kill your lover, who's going to die for your sake.

[north jolt]

TBF the Unum is also a biomechanical sentient being and not even designed for combat, technically speaking

[feral cape]

Considering she can see the future it's really hard to beat her unless she wants to lose

[upbeat glacier]

I mean necros could technically make us an army

[feral cape]

Unums origin is likely not even of the orokin

Considering she is unique for an orokin tower cause she's alive

[upbeat glacier]

And is benevolent

[feral cape]

Nobody designed her she is as she is because she could be no other way

[upbeat glacier]

She's a homie

[proper barn]

I mean i think the orokin might have made her as one of their like first experiments.

[lean garden]

Two separate individuals out of tennocon got two different members of the narrative team to tell them that the unum made rev p, but all we have is their word and not a recording

[lament stirrup]

Nekros' soldiers decay in minutes at best.

[proper barn]

Many warframes where just around her during hte old war and she is full of old Orokin Artifacts.

[feral cape]

I'm not buying it

[lament stirrup]

There were multiple flesh towers in the old war, its just that the Sentient thatnwould become the three Eidolons killed most of them.

[lean garden]

Tbf the only proof they have is that they got selfies with said members

[feral cape]

You're right

There were alot of flesh towers however the eidolon specifically names unum as unique

[proper barn]

We can even still see the fleshy bits in Fortuna @lament stirrup

[upbeat glacier]

Soo uhhh

The flesh they harvest

Do they eat it

[lament stirrup]

Yes.

[feral cape]

Yes

[proper barn]

Yes

they even sell it.

[upbeat glacier]

Is it bad I low-key want to know what Warframe cuisine tastes like?

[north jolt]

Wrong reply

[lean garden]

If one said unum and the other said hunhow, it would be easy to dismiss, but both said unum, so we just need a trustable 3rd person that we all know personally to go and find out

[north jolt]

Nekros: creates a undead hoard at his command
Saryn: Walking plague
Nova: Literal miniature nuke
Ember: Fire
Granted warframes vary in power, obviously, but just off the top of my head those are the first ones I can think of that could with relative easy (going purely by the lore) take on forces hundreds strong

[proper barn]

I mean the unum made him probably just cuz they opened a possiblity

[north jolt]

Disparity between lore and gameplay

[proper barn]

it wouldn't be that werid.

[lament stirrup]

Theres nothing in the lore that indicates that gameplay is inaccurate, when it comes to Nekros' henchmen.

[upbeat glacier]

I wanna know what Warframe food tastes like

[proper barn]

sure

[feral cape]

The lore very much suggests we arnt powerful enough to take on both corpus and grineer and win

[north jolt]

The decay rate of Nekro's summons is a balance thing, we don't really know within the actual lore how long his summons truly last for

[proper barn]

the Unum meat is very oily @upbeat glacier So probably like bubbler.

whale most likely.

[lament stirrup]

Hpw
How do you know that.

Vinny what have you been eating.

[proper barn]

they say that don

't they the oily part.

and it looks like whale bubbler.

[north jolt]

I mean considering we won a rebellion against our very creators, people who compared to either the Grineer or Corpus were virtual gods, only brought down by their own arrogance and folly

[feral cape]

Thats ignoring alot of context

[glacial bough]

We won by jumping the leadership by surprise

And then immediately screwed off

[feral cape]

And because an entire war happened that demolished most of there tech

[north jolt]

Lack of numbers is the only real weakness I see the tenno and warframes having

[feral cape]

Yea

We do lack numbers that's the issue

[lament stirrup]

I think the biggest argument against the Tenno being able to single handedly conquer the origin system is the fact that they haven't done it already.

[upbeat glacier]

Objection

That one trailer shows 3 frames taking on an entire army and winning

[feral cape]

And cordy implies we cant

[upbeat glacier]

https://youtu.be/MsbL8lFHrZI?si=JiC-6lpAiUdw4wjk

[feral cape]

An incredibly minute fraction of the grineer forces

This is the same thing as vex no matter how many i kill beyond there irrational depths there's more there infinite
While grineer arnt infinite they functionally are considering cloning

[upbeat glacier]

I mean aren't dax considered the best of the best

And we smoked them

[feral cape]

Again quality vs quantity

We are very high quality

Very few of us

[lament stirrup]

Assuming warframe armies are comparable to real world armies, thats a relatively small battalion's worth of troops. Which, given that the Grineer were literally mass produced, isn't much.

[north jolt]

But even with our relatively small numbers we have:
Destroyed Femorian fleets
Destroyed the Zenuka project
Slayed multiple infested monstrosities
Punched astroids (only in Atlas lore but always worth bringing up)
ALMOST pushed back against invading sentient forces a second time before being betrayed by Ballas
Have killed or at least humiliated the top ranks of the Grineer military
Regularly screw over Nef Anyo
Killed giant robot spiders

[lament stirrup]

There's still Fomorians and Zanuka modules running around.

Albeit rarely.

[feral cape]

Small potatoes to multi planetary empires

[north jolt]

In game events that exist for farming purposes =/= canon strictly speaking

[upbeat glacier]

So if the way you make it seem

Why don't the corpus and Grineer wipe us out

[feral cape]

Also yea zanukas pop back up

[feral cape]

Because they also can't

They have to fight eachother aswell

[glacial bough]

Because they're 75 percent focused on each other

[lament stirrup]

Because the Tenno don't have a centeralized base of operations and have personalized stealth ships to hide out on.

[north jolt]

Oh and we pilot railjacks with at best, like 5 man crews and manage to destroy fleets probably hundreds if not thousands of individuals strong

[feral cape]

Small potatoes to multi planetary empires

[glacial bough]

Railjacks very much aren't destroying fleets

[lament stirrup]

Isn't the average skirmish mission like 50 guys?

[upbeat glacier]

Aren't relays tenno owned

Or am I confused

[feral cape]

Tenno (faction) owned

[lament stirrup]

The relays are tenno friendly, but its mostly non-tenno allies running things. Also they have been destroyed in the past.

[north jolt]

Depends but that's also assuming each individual ship you destroy (including crew ships) are piloted by literally one guy, which yeah some of them likely are but it also varies

[glacial bough]

A railjack takes on a single capital ship most times and needs set up to even destroy one like that

[north jolt]

Just friendly, and technically guarded when the Fomorian fleets first showed up in game

[upbeat glacier]

To be fair we destroy warships from the inside

So wouldn't be effective

In a large scale battle

Also we do ambush the warships when they're alone and not in a formation

[north jolt]

Tbh you're going to have a hard time moving me from the position that the Tenno/warframes in terms of our raw capabilities, are basically superior to any other faction out there EXCEPT for maybe the sentients (canonically they have given us the most problems so far) and the murmer (being parts of Wally basically)

[lament stirrup]

They're superior in capabilities, not numbers.

[feral cape]

On an individual scale pound for pound nothing is matching a tenno

[north jolt]

But Lore wise, there are definitely frames that can compensate for the numbers if REALLY needed

[upbeat glacier]

Imo I feel like tenno are being held back to a degree that's detrimental to everyone

[lament stirrup]

There aren't enough Tenno to simeltanously wage open war against the Grineer and Corpus, while keeping the colonies safe.

[upbeat glacier]

Ahem like Letting corpus terrorize innocent people same with grineer

[feral cape]

And ensuring that both sides are wiped out at the same time

[north jolt]

TBF we did have a opportunity to kill both of the grineer queens (admittedly after they almost got one over on us too) but we kinda just didn't?

We only killed the one I mean

[feral cape]

Because you know if we don't do that one side gains solar superiority and takes over all of sol

[glacial bough]

We do kill one, the other queens bounces before the fight

[lament stirrup]

The Worm ran whilw the Tenno was busy fighting the Elder.

[feral cape]

Killing both causes a power vacuum

[upbeat glacier]

I doubt groups like perin and steel meridian would help because they want to change the factions from within

[tall echo]

Worm left before things got dangerous

[north jolt]

And when has that ever stopped us before! :p

[lament stirrup]

By the time the fight with the Elder is over, the Tenno has no way of pin pointing the Worms location.

[glacial bough]

Perrin could, but Merdian are straight up rebels

[feral cape]

It is stopping us now

[tall echo]

Twice. With the grineer and the corpus.

[north jolt]

Oh yeah, regularly invading the kuva fortress and stealing their cherry koolaid, add that to the list

[glacial bough]

their entire thing is fighting back against the Grineer wherever

[tall echo]

The last time we created a power vacuum it caused the current state of the system

[upbeat glacier]

I'm saying is they probably wouldn't be crazy with us going murder hobo on their people

[north jolt]

Clearly we just need to continue reducing the number of hostile factions then

[glacial bough]

neither would care that much

[tall echo]

That is a pretty much impossible solution

[north jolt]

I would argue for wiping out the Grineer first since they are the least likely to surrender and negotiate under any circumstances

[upbeat glacier]

Ok at the very least we might be able to force the corpus to treat the Solaris better with the threat of destroying their riches

[feral cape]

Clear a beach a grain of sand at a time and get back to us

[tall echo]

And the corpus will use the opportunity to take over

[lament stirrup]

Thats. Already what happens in the Solaris intro quest.

[north jolt]

Legitimately speaking, the only reason I think we HAVEN'T been more proactively trying to wipe out the grineer is because that would severely limit possible future content and story lines

[upbeat glacier]

So I wonder if lotus meets with faction leaders to make demands or treaty terms

[feral cape]

Clear a beach a grain of sand at a time and get back to us

[north jolt]

Invasions exist so, probably yeah

[tall echo]

The lotus rarely communicates with non-tenno

[lament stirrup]

The Grineer have literal planets worth of soldiers and cloning factories if Ceres and Uranus are any indiciation.

[glacial bough]

Never, they have nothing to negotiate with the Lotus like that

Plus the Grineer have avenues of countering us with Liches and Tokars

[upbeat glacier]

Plus we don't know where anyone's capital is

[feral cape]

Corpus capital city is on pluto

[north jolt]

Well we know where the Kuva fortress is which is probably the closest thing the Grineer has to a capitol.

[glacial bough]

We entirely know where the Queens are, there's just no way to get her

[tall echo]

Well the worm is in the fortress, which is their main station

[upbeat glacier]

I've always considered that more of a mobile command center then a capital

[lament stirrup]

I mean, if its where your queen lives its the capital in every way thst counts for warfare.

[north jolt]

BUT they likely don't have a "capitol" in the traditional sense of the word like we know it

[tall echo]

The queens are exclusively in the fortress because it's almost impossible to detect and locate

[north jolt]

Plus having your "capitol" be constantly moving and difficult to detect by your enemies is strategically speaking, very smert

[lament stirrup]

You know, if the Elder hadn't been impatient enough to order Teshin to kidnap the Tenno while they were in the room with him, we may have very well never discovered the Kuva Fortress' existence.

[upbeat glacier]

I wish de did more in depth universe lore

Like what do citizens of the respective factions do daily

Food

Clothes

Entertainment? (Index for corpus I'm assuming)

[north jolt]

Grineer have Rathuum for entertainment

[lament stirrup]

If Worm and the Meridian cremates dialogue is any indication, the Grineer use each other for food.

[tall echo]

DE isn't tolkien, there will never be such in-depth unnecessary extra lore

[upbeat glacier]

But I like the extra lore 🥺

[north ferry]

Pfftt

[tall echo]

Aside from random missable mentions

[north jolt]

I mean Tolkein only had the 1 made up language, DE has like 3-4 made up languages?

Really making Tolkein look like a lazy hack tbh

[upbeat glacier]

Like I want to know what a corpus city is like

[lament stirrup]

We do actually have a decent bit of info o Corpus fashion: its horrendous.

[tall echo]

He made up at least 3 but ok

[north jolt]

Jukebox looking ahh mf

[upbeat glacier]

I'm referring to the average joe

[lament stirrup]

The warframe langusges are all simple ciphers of english, comapred to Tolkien who made two seperste langusges with their own alphabets and grammer.

[north ferry]

In-depth lore? I mean, it needs any depth lore outside of the missible scraps.

[polar bobcat]

God everytime i see nef anyo's lame little leggings i die 💀

[north ferry]

Yeah the guy's language comment was bait.

[north jolt]

Okay so just to clarify, I was only calling Tolkein a lazy hack as a joke :p

[upbeat glacier]

Like is it bad I wish we could visit the corpus capital in a peaceful situation like maybe a truce or ceasefire

[lament stirrup]

I can't help rhst I'm a nerdy little freak

[upbeat glacier]

I wanna see what it's like

[tall echo]

2.5-3, there's two elven ones iirc and the dwarven one

[north ferry]

Implying the Corpus has a capital. Which is uncertain.

[lament stirrup]

I don't think the Corpus have a "capital" since they're technically a business.

I imagine each board member keeps to their own planet.

[north jolt]

Also tbh I only know of the Elven language anyways. Not familiar with the other languages that exist (and are explained in detail) in the Tolkeinverse

[upbeat glacier]

Would you say orokin society was like cyberpunk

[north ferry]

I mean the point of Tolkien's world building is that it was multiple dialects of elven.

[tall echo]

The dwarves have an entire language that never appears anywhere aside from rare names because they want to keep it secret

[north ferry]

Cyberpunk... yeah actually kinda. It has a lot of the thematic concepts.

[north jolt]

I mean of the two primary hostile factions, the corpus are the ones that at least a uneasy peace is the most likely with. There would still be tensions for obvious reasons by aside from some noteable individuals, they can be reasoned and bargained with, usually

[upbeat glacier]

Minus nef

[north jolt]

I don't count Alad either cause he always just ends up backstabbing everyone anyways

[north ferry]

Peace with the hyper capitalists.... uhhhh

[upbeat glacier]

And alad I wouldn't trust him to hold a pencil

[tall echo]

Closer to wannabe romans with advanced technology

[north ferry]

Probably not profitable.

[north jolt]

Parvos, probably not a big fan of us at this point but at least he's not literally insane

[lament stirrup]

I'd say biopunk, given their proclivity for putting meat inside all their technology.

[upbeat glacier]

There's so much lore I wish we could know

Is seeing tenno rare or common for a civilian

Or is it like a space marine in Warhammer

[glacial bough]

Civilians never see the Tenno

[north jolt]

To most people the warframes basically ARE the tenno, so its like a "yes/no" kind of thing

[tall echo]

At least he understands that it's a good idea to help tenno sometimes

[lament stirrup]

One of the devs confirmed that the civillians are far away from Tenno conflict, with the obvious exceptions of civillians already in war zones like the Ostrons.

[glacial bough]

If they see a Tenno, they're in an active combat zone

[north jolt]

And the people in the Hollivanian mall now I guess

[north ferry]

Honestly, it has the concepts of Cyberpunk, power disparity and inherent class conflict, the advancement of technology in use of expression and control as part of this disparity. The separation between the power granted by technology blurring the lins of people.

[lament stirrup]

The game sets up its tone for civillian interaction when you go to an asteroid colony in the tutorial and discover everyone's been murdered by the Grineer.

[upbeat glacier]

I'm saying civilians in war zones

Is it common to see Warframes/tenno

Or is it like a terrifying sight like a space marine from Warhammer

[north ferry]

That's a combat zone soo

[north jolt]

Yes?

[glacial bough]

Civilians in combat zones will most likely see a Tenno if they don't die quick

[north ferry]

They're probably comparable to Space Marines in familiarity, distrubution and even perspective.

[lament stirrup]

For the Scaldra, the dividing line between a combat and non-combat zone is whether or not the place has been drowned in Efervon yet.

[north jolt]

Technically so is the Ostron village considering the Grineer are right outside their door, which is why I brought it up

[upbeat glacier]

Also can we the tenno talk while in our Warframes?

Or is it telepathic

[north ferry]

It's more in relation to this comment.

[lament stirrup]

The Tenno talks in their warframe during the War Within, and is implied to be doing so when talking to open world vendors and maroo.

[tall echo]

Replay war within

[north jolt]

Probably a mix of telepathy with other Tenno and basic body language when dealing with anyone else

[north ferry]

Uhh, yes. Not that I can remember of seeing it but absolutely Stalker can.

[upbeat glacier]

I meant to people outside

[north ferry]

Lotus talks enough for us.

[glacial bough]

Most communication is handled by the Lotus

[upbeat glacier]

Like when we go up to cozo can he hear us

Or is it telepathic

[lament stirrup]

Teshin's a Dax, not a Tenno, so presumably that wasn't telepathic?

[glacial bough]

If the Tenno Operator is awake, they'll just talk themselves

[tall echo]

We straight up talk to teshin during war within

[north ferry]

She yap

[tall echo]

Who is cozo

[upbeat glacier]

The ostron guy

[north jolt]

"Late dinner for Cozo"

[upbeat glacier]

I'm tired and misspelling

[tall echo]

Konzu?

[upbeat glacier]

Yeah

[north ferry]

Again, it's simply not presented in game so it's up to us to persume how the Operator communicates habititually.

[tall echo]

Premature meal for cozo

[lament stirrup]

Scheduled breakfast for Corno

[north jolt]

I like to think that, especially prior to second dream, we just kinda give all non-tenno the Doom-Slayer treatment for interraction

[upbeat glacier]

Also I always thought Warframes were tall

But they're pretty much average adult size ironically XD

[north jolt]

I mean Rhino is kinda beefy tho

[tall echo]

Warframes are short, ostron are shorter

[north jolt]

Atlas might be above average height?

[lament stirrup]

Because of the games modelling limitations, all of the warframes (and the drifter) are roughly the same height. they just have different postures.

[north jolt]

The real dystopia is everyone is below 5'7"

[north ferry]

Star Day Date at Costcos

[tall echo]

There's not much height difference between frames exluding large helmets and floating

[north jolt]

Atlas just looks particularly tall to me

[lament stirrup]

Its because he keeps his back straight and has a pillar for a head.

[tall echo]

I'm probably taller than every frame

[north jolt]

And enough shoulder width to stretch a canvas on

[north ferry]

Yeah also, all the Warframes are based off people so it probably wouldn't be too dissimilar form people heights.

[upbeat glacier]

Also NGL I wonder how the orbiter feels inside

Hot, cold?

Etc

[north jolt]

Probably room temprature

[lament stirrup]

If the Helminth is any indication, its uncomfortably warm and has a heartbeat.

[north jolt]

Maybe only the helminth room itself is warm

[north ferry]

I imagine the orbiter being on the colder side.

[upbeat glacier]

Also since drifter is an adult can the drifter have a child with a hex member or is our biological functions destroyed

[lament stirrup]

Now we're asking the real questions.

[upbeat glacier]

Ugh

So many questions

[north jolt]

Well if a warframe can get pregnant...

[upbeat glacier]

And no answers

[upbeat glacier]

She was turned while pregnant

[lament stirrup]

Technically she was pregnant before she became a warframe.

[north jolt]

I know :p

[lament stirrup]

And then because Ballas is the worst person in existence, he put the baby into a fish bowl.

[upbeat glacier]

I'm referring to can our tenno/drifter have a child with a hex member

Or

Did the void make us sterile

[hexed oxide]

if anything it would be the hex who can't do it, i don't think void exposure is like radiation

[tall echo]

I mean. Theirs probably are.

[north ferry]

Uhhg

[hexed oxide]

also quincy's dialogue implies they still can perform

not dialogue, his KIM chats

[north ferry]

Truly the gutter has been unleashed by this update XD.

[upbeat glacier]

Another great question

Where's the bathrooms in our orbiter lol

[north ferry]

The suit

[upbeat glacier]

Dear god

[lament stirrup]

KIM chats with Lettie and Amir confirm they can very much perform. No indication they're still fertile.

[north jolt]

That actually reminds me of one of the stories from Necronomicon: Book Of The Dead

[lament stirrup]

Helminth has a name, you know.

[tall echo]

The helminth takes care of biological functions

[north jolt]

I named mine Jimbo

[upbeat glacier]

Now do tenno /drifters bathe?

Do we just not sweat?

[tall echo]

.

[north ferry]

Uhhh... the suit?

We take a stop at a relay maybe

[hexed oxide]

of the ship, helminth takes care of the ship's biological functions according to ordis' dialogue

[upbeat glacier]

Dear god does that mean it bathes us too

[north jolt]

To me that probably means like maintaining and repairing our warframes and such

[lament stirrup]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upSOjCpr3vA

[north ferry]

Left up to imagination.

[north jolt]

||voreframe strikes again||

[upbeat glacier]

So your telling me

[hexed oxide]

i think it just means doing maintenance on the frames and whatever else biological components the ship has

[upbeat glacier]

We probably let that thing swallow us to bathe

[glacial bough]

No

[upbeat glacier]

We just walk up and use it's tongue as a sponge bath

[lament stirrup]

The Helminth confirms that it takes care of warframes, but Ordis says "biological functions" instead of "warframe maintenence". So presumably the Orbiter has nuerons and veins attached to that thing.

[hexed oxide]

that's what i mean

[north jolt]

Helminth probably just takes care of the warframes for us

[hexed oxide]

the somatic fibers or whatever are the things behind the operator's chair in that room

[lament stirrup]

The arboriform ☝️🤓

[upbeat glacier]

I low-key wanna know what the daily life of a tenno/drifter us

Is

[tall echo]

Play the game. That's the daily life.

[hexed oxide]

found it

[north jolt]

Kill
Murder
Loot
Kill
Play komi

[proper barn]

They all are this its just funny

[north jolt]

Work on our fashion

[upbeat glacier]

I still wanna know if we are normal human in bodily function

Or the void messed us up

[north jolt]

He may still have a gun, but is it fully loaded or just for show?

[proper barn]

Probably not

[proper barn]

Lmao

[lament stirrup]

I feel like theres a philosophical debste to be asked if the average rescue mission is morally sound, given thst you kill roughly fifty people to save one.

||(They are morally sound. The grineer and corpus shoot civillians)||

[upbeat glacier]

Is it bad 1999 update has made me ask a lot of questions about our tennos biological functions

[hexed oxide]

i think everyone was left with questions after reading the hex

eleanor has to trim her tongue, which probably means she can "shape" it or give it different textures

[lament stirrup]

Not gonna lie, I didn't even consider that they need to eat until the New War showed the Tenno having lunch while trying and failing to comprehend the games plot.

[upbeat glacier]

She mentions when people see her with a knife going to the bathroom everyone runs

[hexed oxide]

just thought about that, even while being trapped inside the zariman, inside the void and probably duviri too, the drifter still had to it, so it's safe to assume normal bodily functions are not altered that much by the void

[north jolt]

My question is, where TF is Entrati right now? cause tbh I don't trust the "Entrati" we see after that vanishing scene to really be him

[lament stirrup]

Tau? Somewhere bothering Sentients at least.

[north jolt]

How would he of gotten to Tau?

[lament stirrup]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[north jolt]

He couldn't even escape the time loop without us, and maybe still hasnt

[lament stirrup]

He definitly left the loop, otherwise he'd still be there giving cryptic prophecies and being wildly unhelpful.

[north jolt]

Tbh Im not really sure about that

[lament stirrup]

"Oh no, Amir's dying of a heart attack."

Bang
"The heart attack is no longer whats killing him."

[upbeat glacier]

Also low-key wonder what kuva tastes like

[hexed oxide]

o_o

isn't kuva like blood ? i'd assume it'd taste extremely iron-ish

[upbeat glacier]

I realized my hungry rear would probably get sick a lot

[north jolt]

An oily viscous blood like substance

[hexed oxide]

then like a thick, iron tasting pudding probably

[north jolt]

Imagine olive oil, now add some blood to that olive oil

[upbeat glacier]

Me on my way to eat the fish on earth

[lament stirrup]

Ordis' memory fragments describe it as an "iron taste" so presumably at least a bit like blood.

[hexed oxide]

like, even ostron brewed drinks are described by ordis as hazardous

[north jolt]

I always believed it to be the blood of Wally or some kind of eldritch being

[upbeat glacier]

That's why I said my hungry rear would be vomiting a lot

Rip Ordis sanity as he has to clean up after my hungry butt

[hexed oxide]

smth smth try this ostron dish but "you don't posses the hydraulic force required to unstick your tongue from the roof of your mouth the following day

[lament stirrup]

Cetus, where the locals tell you to eat termite crap or die.

[upbeat glacier]

Ordis hearing strange noises from my room would know I ate something

[north jolt]

The comments about the Orokin "taking his flesh" (and by extension the Grineer now too) has only reaffirmed this assumption for me.

[hexed oxide]

"cetus living is tough living, let the grineer learn that"

[lament stirrup]

But also I want one of Koumei's gift baskets for lumch.

Warframe cooking minigame.when?

[upbeat glacier]

Warframe cookbook when

[hexed oxide]

isn't there a youtube tutorial for arthur's cube spaghetti ?

[north jolt]

Yes

[upbeat glacier]

Also I am surprised that we don't get incredibly sick in 1999 considering we wouldn't be exposed to the illnesses then and vice versa

[north jolt]

Squbegetti

[hexed oxide]

yeah, im not touching that even with wukong's stick

[lament stirrup]

One of Eleanor's dialogues has her pointing out the Drifter is almost definitly immune to infestation. Thst presumably applies to mundane diseases too.

[upbeat glacier]

Dang

My plan to have Eleanor giving sick drifter attention out the window

[lament stirrup]

I also discovered she rage quits the dialogue if you insist you aren't. Which, in hindsight, is fair, given that you can literally wear infested growths for fun and not suffer for it.

I just realised I can put the tentacle Syndana on my Drifter...

[upbeat glacier]

I wanna know what/where techrot came from

/infested

[hexed oxide]

entrati

[lament stirrup]

capitalism.

[hexed oxide]

and ballas respectively

[upbeat glacier]

I thought they encountered it not made it

[humble sierra]

Nah 1999 was considered a plague year before Entrati went there

[lament stirrup]

The Infestation predates the Orokin empire, so it couldn't have been Ballas.

[upbeat glacier]

So who or what made it

[humble sierra]

The Helminth strain was cultivated by Ballas, which is what you might be thinking of

[restive river]

Unknown

[humble sierra]

Right now it’s looking like the people behind the Technocyte Coda did it somehow

[hexed oxide]

thought the infestation was lab grown ? like ballas talks about growing strains and things, also lephantis is described as a bio engineered weapon

[upbeat glacier]

Didn't Eleanor try to read it's mind and almost died or am I thinking of something else

[lament stirrup]

In Dark Sector it came from the deoths of the ocean. Which explains nothing and terfifies me greatly.

[humble sierra]

Ancient lore that might’ve been retconned

[lament stirrup]

Iirc, that was Rusalka while she was possessed by Wallace.

[humble sierra]

Never call him that again

[lament stirrup]

Walliam?

[restive river]

The infestation predate the Orokin but the Orokin still utilized it as a weapon

[lament stirrup]

Wahlia, perhaps?

[glacial bough]

There was never a given origin for the Infestation. The Orokin certainly used it

[upbeat glacier]

Wally for me

Also can we all acknowledge Ballas was wearing crocs

[lament stirrup]

What

[hexed oxide]

from the komi part during the sacrifice

idk if those are crocs

[upbeat glacier]

NVM

BROS GOT JORDANS!?

[lament stirrup]

He actually skinned the last known crocodile alive to make them /j

[restive river]

Lame aah shoes

[upbeat glacier]

NGL would be pretty in character

[hexed oxide]

bro probably can grow a crocodile each time he wants new shoes

[lament stirrup]

The Corpus would definitly sell the licensing rights to cloning the last crocodile in existence.

[hexed oxide]

the grineer struggling to clone a proper crocodile

[humble sierra]

There’s a terminal near Aoi that implies two parties (OnLyne’s manager and some other group) to create virtual copies of OnLyne to fill in during interviews and recordings (basically, AI chatbots), and then they got greedy and wanted to make clones to replace them during live performances— the biology of which probably got out of hand, creating the Techrot

[hexed oxide]

they are literally online then

[river tangle]

[redacted] boy band manager named gregory v

dude single handedly caused the outbreak

[upbeat glacier]

I wonder what they all looked like before becoming protos

[lament stirrup]

Iirc the techrot existed in some capacity before then to inspire Gregory's cloning plans.

[river tangle]

now to kinda wonder where the oof did that other group get that infested culture thing

[upbeat glacier]

Imma sleep

[lament stirrup]

Its actually super easy to make Techrot, just add this line of coding to the HTML.
If:Meat, Then:Become evil,

(Every programmer in chat now wants to strangle me for calling an if-than statment html)

[hexed oxide]

💀

[river tangle]

pfft :v

[proper barn]

@mossy moss You had a question?

about LOOOOOOOOORRRE

[mossy moss]

Yeahh i asked around and it seemed like i might spoil some who havent played 1999 by asking here

[proper barn]

i mean you can talk spoilers here in lore

[mossy moss]

Since this chat can be for ppl asking abt lore leading up to it but not played

[proper barn]

cuz it's been out for a while

[mossy moss]

Fair

[proper barn]

like when the finale wasn't actually reachable you couldn't talk about it here

But now you can.

[glacial bough]

You could also just go to spoiler chat if you want

[mossy moss]

Ill repeat the question then as i asked elsewhere

[proper barn]

also yeah you can ask it where ever.

[mossy moss]

The story of the indifference, drifter and entrati does not end at the hex finale right?

[proper barn]

oh yeah no.

it ends on a cliff hanger even.

[mossy moss]

Iono if giving a peace sign to loid is a cliff hanger but yeah somewhat roundabout

[glacial bough]

It's not quite a cliffhanger, but the end is very clear set up for the future

[proper barn]

i mean why wouldn't it be? like those things are to PUNCH the indifference.

also it ends with "THE SEQUENCE IS COMPLETE" which means we can probably actually fight wally now.

[mossy moss]

Oh wait i forgot abt that ur totally right

[mossy moss]

Didnt entrati tell us to find him after the sequence was completed?

During witw computer vids

Which we also have yet to do

[proper barn]

no?

also Ruskla and Albretch disappeared in like a flash or something

so SHRUG but yeah we probably still got a FEW STORY quests in this arch if i had to guess.

[mossy moss]

"Complete the kalymos sequence, repair, rebuild" (and then right after) "when the time is right, find me"

Or is that "find me" part referring to 1999 in which case i mixed it up

[humble sierra]

This arc is called “The Void War”, so people are expecting a proper conclusion. MITW ain’t done yet.

KIM messages (with Lettie) I believe indicate the future: ||chasing Albrecht to Tau||.

[proper barn]

MAYBE? IDK

[lament stirrup]

The devs confirmed the void wars been planned out to roughly 2029.

[humble sierra]

Wowzers

[proper barn]

i think PARVOS is gonna be a wally puppet big time like the sisters where a big part of the war within.

[mossy moss]

This is the first time ive heard the arc called so and man it sounds banger even if its a repeated name pattern

[proper barn]

but shhhhhhhhhhhh

[lament stirrup]

I believe they said its been written to play out over four years, but I don't remember how close it was to 2025 when they said it.

[proper barn]

i think we get like infested updates for 2025 and then like third orb

and then story big quest.

[mossy moss]

Third orb?

[proper barn]

and that will be 2025

Third orb on fortuna Narmer has brain washed it

and it's gonna be a fight we get at some point.

[mossy moss]

Im sorry i think im missing some context

[humble sierra]

Yeah right now there’s just a massive “Narmer Orb” sitting in a lake in the Vallis

[mossy moss]

Wdym third orb on fortuna?

[humble sierra]

It hasn’t had anything to do yet

[proper barn]

okay

the first 2 orbs are profit taker and Exploiter

their has been a third orb in a lake there since launch

recently DE added a narmer drone near it

[mossy moss]

OHHH those big insect robots are called orbs

[proper barn]

yeah

[humble sierra]

Yeah the boss fights at Rank 5

[proper barn]

partly sentient orbs

but yeah.

[humble sierra]

Exploiter and Profit-Taker

[mossy moss]

I never got to fortuna r5 and im doin it really slowly

[humble sierra]

I think you can do Exploiter earlier

[proper barn]

also I'm reminded that amps are made of sentients cuz they are great void energy like conduits

[humble sierra]

You just have to get one of the keys (diluted thermia) and head to the place to start it

[mossy moss]

Were the first 2 orbs available at launch of orb vallis or were it added later on, hence a pattern of release for a "3rd" one?

[proper barn]

you can start a expoliter bounty now

i think.

[humble sierra]

One dropped on release with Fortuna I think, and the second one definitely with Hildryn

[proper barn]

the orbs where always on the map in fortuna just we couldn't fight them till later

But yeah the second one came out with Hildryn

PT came out like a little while after fortuna released.

[mossy moss]

Ahhh okay so that then explains the anticipation of a 3rd one, gotchs gotcha

[proper barn]

i mean

[lament stirrup]

The 3rd orb is already on the map, it just hasn't left its coolant lake since release.

[proper barn]

ITS ON THE MAP YOU CAN SEE IT

[humble sierra]

Yep rank 5 Fortuna lets you get the exploiter orb bounty but I think you can fight it without needing the bounty

[proper barn]

ITS BEEN THERE SINCE FORTUNA CAME OUT

now it jsut also has a narmer drone near it.

so it will probably be a narmer fight.

[proper barn]

Related to whatever Pazuul is doing with all the energy and resources he's been gathering.

i think he is trying to rebuild this side of the solar rail to tau

[humble sierra]

Yeah that seems like the case

[mossy moss]

Oh yeah wait so how does the story of pazuul go? Back when i finished new war i just got archon hunts available but i feel like i missed some type of story sequence on why pazuul is therr

[proper barn]

Pazuul is the body of erra

[mossy moss]

Like where did bro come from

[proper barn]

and the head of the ram.

Oh the ram was the last beast lord that erra didn't turn into a archon. Seemingly cuz the Ram was Crazy.

[humble sierra]

Other Archons rebuilt themselves(?) and used his body as a vessel for another Archon (?) who may or may not have already been existing?

[mossy moss]

Is that through codex lore or voice lines or some kinda side quest u find out

[humble sierra]

Veilbreaker

[mossy moss]

Like i swear to god im having gaps in lore gameplay

[proper barn]

it's what Khal says and stuff.

pazuul brought back the archons @humble sierra is thhe lore explaintion for that

[mossy moss]

Ong i never paid attention to khal (im so sorry kahl)

[proper barn]

BAKE HIM AWAY TOYS

[humble sierra]

It’s also more discussed in the Archon Hunts after veilbreaker

[mossy moss]

Ahh alright

[proper barn]

also yeah

Lotus talks about it in the hunts too.

but i was gonna say we learnt about the solar rail destruction in the old war by hunhow from Erra.

or pazuul.

not erra lmao.

[mossy moss]

Out of topic but is there any proper name for the otherside when it comes to the sky/atmosphere texture in witw?

Like not just "indifference"

[proper barn]

what do you mean?

witw? or second dream?

[mossy moss]

You know when you gaze outside the windows and peer into that weird abyss in sanctum anatomica

With gaping maws, lighting and upsidd down pillars

[proper barn]

Oh the void

OH WAIT

you mean the void that is wallys domain.

[lament stirrup]

I think thats the man in the walls "body".

[mossy moss]

BODY?

[proper barn]

ehhh more his realm

like how Duviri is a realm in void

like how Parvos has his own realm in the void.

[mossy moss]

Is wallys realm different from the absence of existence "the void"

[proper barn]

no

Cuz the void isn't absence.

[lament stirrup]

I mean, the angry faces and hands growing out of the stone would suggest they're a tiny bit alive.

[proper barn]

Otherwise things like duviri and Parvo's thing i forget the name it has the name.

[mossy moss]

Wasnt it absence until entrati entered/gazed it?

[proper barn]

probably not? they just thought it was. BUT kuva existed before that

[lament stirrup]

We don't actually know the nature of the void before Albrecht entered it.

[proper barn]

and kuva is of the void.

[mossy moss]

Okay thats true

[proper barn]

seeminly conituity like is more likely to work if you are in places of "void conjuctions"

[strange turtle]

IIRC the Orokin thought it was empty and there was nothing there back when they believed in Duality?

[strange turtle]

But there was no actual evidence behind it that we know of

[proper barn]

They didn't believe in duality then duality is really old regilion that 1999 has.

anyway kuva is way older than void travel

[strange turtle]

I could’ve sworn Duality got mentioned in the quiz section

[proper barn]

and it existed and was used by the orokin.

[lament stirrup]

The Orokin conciously used the void for continuity rituals on Lua, so theu were at least partially aware of its properites. Albrechts notes imply he was the only one that thought it was a place that could be entered, though.

[strange plinth]

iirc they were still using it for power n such long before albrecht was able to enter it

[mossy moss]

Oh yeah so, this probably cant be guessed with help of facts or lore cuz its impossible to predict but, do yall think we will continue with this "sub modern" style for another mainline patch or two? Yk how like witw was basically first to show near modern day human clothes with albrecht and then just now we literally go back to 1999

[proper barn]

I mean we will have echoes

[mossy moss]

Echoes?

[strange turtle]

Echoes of 1999

The next update

[mossy moss]

Oh

Ngl sounds like a start of y2k story

[lament stirrup]

Echoes is the name for all updates tying back to major updates. I.E. Echoes of the Zariman, Echoes of the New War.
Other things(???)

[mossy moss]

I wasnt there at those times, did they further introduce mainline or were those faction things?

[proper barn]

I SWEAR ITS MOVING AND MAKING WAY MORE NOISES THAN NORMAL

[mossy moss]

Or uh idk, gameplay not specifically story things?

[strange turtle]

Wally got to Vinny 😔

[proper barn]

IT IS MOVING WAY MORE GO SEE IT

[mossy moss]

And here we have a warframe player, frantically looking for its next prey (in david attenborough voice)

[proper barn]

lul

[lean garden]

Dont think thats accurate given that albrecht was mocked for thinking that the Void was anything but a void

[proper barn]

I think it's gonna how they re-introduce "trials" (raids) EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE BETTER RAIDS IN EDA

[lean garden]

No form no energy nothing

[mossy moss]

I remember raids, i got taxi'd so hard

[proper barn]

raids where bad

play eDA for a better experince and more rewards.

[glacial bough]

Also, the example of them using the Void in continuity happens long after they opened the way

[proper barn]

also EDA was added in a echoes update so was Dantes whole story and mode @mossy moss

[lament stirrup]

Albrecht mentions he's ceasing continuity after his first void expedition, which implicitly means it had to havr existed before then.

[proper barn]

anyway trails where bad.

i hope trails 2.0 are better and actually fun.

[strange plinth]

wasn't super confident in that, happy to be corrected if so

[river tangle]

echoes of the zariman, echoes of 1999…

[ionic ibex]

Do we have spoiler tag stuff about the new war?

[lean garden]

No

[ionic ibex]

Then question about the new war, when we are first sent to the void, how long have narmer been in control before the drifter showed up?

5-10yrs?

[north ferry]

Undetermined. As someone else put it, it's possible we're supposed to persume that operator has grown up which does put 5+ or so years, but also that isn't the case so it's uncertain. I personally like the idea of it being 3 or so.

[graceful swan]

The only answer is some time

[ionic ibex]

I see

Do we know how long drifter was stuck in duvri?

[graceful swan]

1000 years+

[hexed oxide]

what

how are they still sane ?

unless that includes the time they were monarch ? or when they lost their memory

[graceful swan]

That's the neat part the quest is all about them being apathetic

[hexed oxide]

reading through drifter's lore, what does the last sentence mean ?

[graceful swan]

Basically, they wont have the powers Duviri gave

[main crane]

He still has his time-looping powers though.

[hexed oxide]

yeah, didn't end up that way i guess

[lean garden]

I mean theres this whole critical bit where the Drifter doesnt have his powers during TNW

[hexed oxide]

ordis saying smth about "why do you not use your powers ?" "i don't...have them yet"

[stray herald]

https://youtu.be/aqtsrZsCmj0?si=vo-YSIrUbO0v5vYe

dudes I just heard wally as the cello at the end of this piece

the cello mimics what he said during the new war

[hexed oxide]

time mark ?

[lean garden]

4:15

[hexed oxide]

idk if it's because im looking out for it but i hear it too. don' trust me though because im as tone deaf as an artillery operator

[lean garden]

nah it literally is taking the same progression, might even be the same pitch, which I would know if I was any good at aural stuff (Im not)

[steel creek]

is there a way we can play the duviri paradox again? that shi was fire and i wanna replay the quest

(begin again!)

[vale rivet]

steal aoi from Arther

[tall echo]

They're not in a relationship anymore during/after the quest

[tall echo]

Make another account

[graceful swan]

Watch someone jump into Eternalism to find a Universe where they are still together to be broken up by us

[raw stone]

Could've also been that, when the tutorial side of duviri was advertised to new players as an alternative... This meant you would not see drifter upon Second Dream from beginning with Duviri, but instead Operator.

They no longer advert Duviri as such anymore. It's at minimum a Neptune-unlock quest like Second Dream. I think

[hexed oxide]

idk what they were thinking making duviri for new players. i understand they want to make new content also available for new players but i don't think they've been good on that side

[raw stone]

To me, duviri only had a tu-- no wait, Undercroft had some mini tutorial during the quest. But most of what I internalized with the quest was the Duviri combat.

[steel creek]

real

[old dome]

tbh i think circuit should be the only thing unlocked for new players bc they can farm frames they dont have from there... but everything else? tnw requirement.

[tall echo]

That doesn't really make sense

[frail rose]

I kind of get it because Duviri by principle has a strong beginner hook and a character creation

But there's too much context in it to like...work like that

also nothing outside duviri works like duviri except circuit so it's a bad tutorial to begin with

[chilly iron]

So, that's when I started playing XD
I did Duviri first because it seemed like a tutorial.
It did a good job of teaching me how certain objectives work, like defense missions. But you don't see a Void flood until the Zariman, which was a looooong way away from my baby Tenno butt.
I loved it though; the story, the aesthetic, the orowyrms... I was hooked. Great chapter of warframe, but not a good tutorial.

I very very very very much appreciated the Circuit as a newbie though. I got to try frames and guns in a known and fairly safe environment, and see what I liked. And every week I got a new frame, that was awesome!

[hexed oxide]

story wise, they are literally taking you to the epilogue of the first story arc (ballas as an antagonist, now we have the man in the wall). but from a gameplay standpoint it's the best thing for new players to try frames they may want

[chilly iron]

It did feel like "here's a chapter to keep in the back of your head. Half of these mechanics you won't see again for a long time but don't worry about it"
But thankfully it doesn't mention much of anything in the Origin system, so I didn't hear about Ballas until the right time.
The Zariman tablets I didn't understand until later though.

I don't know where Neptune is along the MSQ because it's all a big blur now. Is that where they put Duviri now?

[hexed oxide]

think so, someone said that earlier

[chilly iron]

Where would you put it in the storyline, if you got to pick? Right after New War?

[hexed oxide]

speaking from a practical viewpoint yes, since it'd be simplest and like i said, epilogue. ideally, i'd have it happen at the same time as new war

right after ||ballas stabs operator and cuts off lotus' hand|| i'd jump straight to drifter about to be executed instead of earth

maybe im biased bc i want to know how drifter got out ||and how teshin got in||

[chilly iron]

Aaah, that would be a good place for it. Not just a little after the system takeover sequence? Let Narmer/Ballas win then pop over?
Either way that would have helped explain to me that that was Lotus' hand. I didn't realize that until someone said it here.

I thought Teshin got yeeted into the void and ended up in Duviri that way?

[hexed oxide]

no idea, ||after failing to veil him, erra crushes his helmet like he did with varzia|| then it cuts away from that

[strong ginkgo]

So I'm slightly confused on the bigger picture of 1999 particulaly if ||Hollvania is actually in the past of the origin system or a simulation by Albrecht. For one, Author calls the sun 'sol', and second just how origin system writing is on posters and the general language everywhere.|| Maybe it is just because ||it's in a separate timeline to our own?||

[hexed oxide]

no, i think everyone ||calls the sun "sol" and the moon "lua"|| and that's everywhere i think, just treat them like gods

eternalism also doesn't make it as easy as past/future or our/their timeline, but im pretty sure it's our past

[lean garden]

its our past

[hexed oxide]

another thing, i think someone made a translation for some posters but it wasn't origin system's alphabet

[lean garden]

the strongest evidence for it being how we've been shown the coda system to work

[chilly iron]

I'm really interested in this Sol and Lua religion that seems to be around in 1999, I would love to know more about it.
But us, it's our straight past. No twists, nothing fancy, just backwards in time.

The language is very close to orokin, I think? Which makes sense, language and writing evolves over time. See "ye" and the interrobang irl

[proper barn]

yeah Elanor talks about it.

[chilly iron]

(I really just want the interrobang to be in more common use, come on humanity)

[chilly iron]

Do we get any good stories? Was there a relationship between the two? Are there services, temples? Myths? I love a good godly myth

[proper barn]

nuns apparently and a "Wedding/War" between Sol and Lua which is what komi is representing apparently.

[chilly iron]

Oh! Well damn that's cool. I never got that conversation.
Too bad I'm AWFUL at komi XD

[olive cloak]

what's the lore about stalker not wanting to stalk me like bro he even appears to jade at least for couple of seconds

[indigo glen]

||Drifter or Operator? Which One?||

[chilly iron]

You just gotta talk crap about bosses until Ol Stalky gets really really really angry.
He likes to turn up during Spy missions for me -_-
In the middle of my Metal Gear reenactments

[proper barn]

for new war?

[indigo glen]

Yes

[proper barn]

pick whatever one you want.

you can change later.

I like drifter more.

[dark mist]

Driftor, gun.

[lament stirrup]

You can actually equip the Drifters gun in the amp screen after you oick the Operator.

[proper barn]

it's actually pretty fine as a weapon.

Like the mote is worse like WAY worse.

[slow phoenix]

yeah the sirocco amp is good until you manage to get a quills/vox solaris amp, those are a lot better than both the mote and the sirocco

[frail rose]

Sirocco gets the job done until you reach a point where you really need an amp

god knows how long it takes to get one if you're starting from point 0

[indigo glen]

I choose Lotus in the end.

[lean garden]

enjoy Lotus Prime

[indigo glen]

I’ll buy her Margulis Skin and match the colors tone to that of Radiant Lotus.

[frail rose]

Respectable

I chose Natah because you're a grown woman why am I picking your name

[chilly iron]

I struggled with that one, and decided Lotus was the most current "her" and the truest to who she had chosen to be?
But also Natah is terrifying

[frail rose]

For me is functionally

Margulis I didn't even consider, that's a dead woman and Ballas tulpa of her needs to stay dead and in the past like the man himself.
Lotus has been an identity borne out of a genuine desire, but also from the layers of manipulation and genuine mess that Natah went through the years. She exists, but she doesn't exist either. I feel there's an argument to be made that it makes her own it back, and I agree and disagree.

Ultimately I chose Natah because I feel the Lotus lived a lie for most of her existence, and uncomfortable as it is, it is who she was, and I rather her be herself than an idealization of a woman long dead (Margulis), or the convenient face of a lie (Lotus)

Arguably, I kinda wanted to like, throw Hunhow a freebie too, since he gave me a nuke bow and all that

[chilly iron]

XD Hunhow is still a jerk, but we're cool. For now.
You do have a point, Natah is her original self and The Lotus was created from manipulation and deception. That's why the choice is so hard!

I felt like Natah was a younger self, and I personally would not like to be defined again by my younger self... but that's absolutely just me and I probably projected some of my own process onto hers.

I'd love to hear from someone who chose Margulus, since to me that would be the more selfish choice of the child that misses their mother.

[lean garden]

"booba"

[north jolt]

Maybe Hunhow can help us against Wally if we ask really really nicely and pull him out of the ocean :p /jkg

"Fine, Tenno/drifter. Just let me make another weapon literally out of my own a..."

[frail rose]

I feel the only objective wrong choice is Margulis, Lotus and Natah come very much to your personal view and that's what makes it great

[north jolt]

I went with Natah for basically similar reasons

Like I'm more bothered by her going out for milk or smokes every other week then I am by her being a sentient

[lean garden]

the thing that Fetti likely agrees and disagrees with is the idea that Lotus indeed owns it back, as the mother figure. If we take her own teachings, that we dream not of what we are, but who we want to be, then Lotus is the dream of Natah as the mother. It may have been born of ballas's lies, but it is a lie that is made true by Natah in Lotus. Fetti's own reasoning for Natah is a valid one, and is the common interpretation for natah choosers that I have seen

but if you ask me why I chose lotus

-# its because I want to keep my sun and moon wheel neutral

[frail rose]

I'm sun until the sun picks started kinda sucking

what do you mean kidnapping the kid and forcing the cure is the sun option

wym just telling the grieving kid to get over their crazed mother is the sun option

[lean garden]

because its the emotional and rash option

[glacial bough]

It's the emotionally driven "moral" choice

[frail rose]

Yeeee

[chilly iron]

Oh gods, I hope I didn't come off saying their choice was invalid, I'm sorry if I did! I don't think there's a "right" answer. I like to know what other people think is all!

[lean garden]

its a dance between "a person who doesnt think" and "a person who thinks too much"

[frail rose]

You didn't dw!

[lean garden]

que?

No no, Im saying that fetti's choice is a very valid reasoning, not because you said anything about it

[chilly iron]

Oh phew... OK then, I'm just being careful ^^
I didn't actually pay attention to that wheel, I just picked what I liked. Does... did the wheel matter!?

[lean garden]

margulis has a tougher time, only because the only way it can remotely work is that you are honouring the memory of a dead woman, whose compassion had indeed shaped the future more than she could ever imagine

but like
-# you dont need someone to wear her face to honour that now do you

well technically youre letting her live again, and it wont come at the cost of the other two, since they all share the same body
-# but still did you need her to be expressed for that to matter tho? She still lives in Natalotulis

[mental tartan]

I've somehow managed to stay like 80% moon

[chilly iron]

I'm calling her Natalotulis from now on, I love it x3

[mental tartan]

God, the aneurism I had reading that the first time😂😂😂

[chilly iron]

Does that sun/balance/moon have any real bearing on things? Or is it just flavor?

[normal mountain]

So far just flavor

[feral cape]

It reflects your choices other than that I think it affect some helminth lines

[normal mountain]

Yeah, if you take your operator into the Helminth room (which is a trick and a half, btw), it'll comment on your alignment

That's about it as of now

[chilly iron]

I never even thought to get the Operator in there XD

[graceful swan]

Me who has done 1999 and can just walk in without tricks

[mental tartan]

I was gonna say, after a point tricks aren't needed, but without 1999 or the segments, you gotta hold the door open with nidus or a frame with a mature cyst iirc

[graceful swan]

I enjoy parking my frame downstairs and going around the ||Backroom|| as Drifter

[normal mountain]

I have segments, and still need to hold the door open

I also awakened my Helminth with Nidus and not the segment, so idk if that had anything to do with that

[graceful swan]

We aren't talking about Orbiter

[normal mountain]

Figured. Backrooms Helminth doesn't have a door

[normal mountain]

But I was talking about the Orbiter

[normal mountain]

Plus, they said you need segments to go in without holding the door open
I was pointing out that I still need to hold it open even with segments

[upbeat glacier]

So I'm dumb

Did Lois like entrati or was I being dumb with the statues

[north ferry]

Lois? Loid? And Entrati as in the family or Albercht?

[upbeat glacier]

Albercht

The assistant

And lois

Loid

[north ferry]

Yes, Albercht and Loid are absolutely in love. Of course, emotions get complicated.

[upbeat glacier]

Did Loid like albercht or am I misreading the statue scene

[upbeat glacier]

Oh ok I was worried my life of gacha games made me unsure lol

https://youtu.be/BB3JoKY4Afw?si=L60u8dMjnC7pyomg

[chilly iron]

They are absolutely in love!
Albrecht is just really bad at it

[mental tartan]

I couldn't tell ya, because I awakened it with nidus and installed both normal helminth and invig segments and haven't had to hold the door open since.

[north ferry]

The statue scene is literally the power of love against the power of indifference.

[upbeat glacier]

Imma be honest, not sure if this chat is where I can say this

But

Why can't more Western game studios learn from Warframe when it comes to romances and stuff, this quest wasn't forced at all, it felt natural and extremely beautiful

[normal mountain]

I don't have invigoration yet
Maybe that's it

[mental tartan]

Ah, yea that might be it, I don't actually know lol

[normal mountain]

Fair lol

[north ferry]

Tbf, depending on the gacha games you play I see why uncertainty is around character chemistry, they get value from being vague and noncommittal.

Just like 1999

[upbeat glacier]

Yes lol

But Warframe is the best game that's come out of a west game studio in a long time

It doesn't feel preachy it tells a story and it nails it

Like 10/10 want to reunite Loid and albercht

[north ferry]

Tbh, I don't know what the hell kind of western games you've played, since I don't think that is the case.

[glacial bough]

It's very much an opinion of all time

[north ferry]

However, Warframe is very vibes based so it does land differently. It's probably absolutely up there is the more progressive content of games.

[smoky solstice]

have y'all seen dsiege's new theory video

[chilly iron]

Loid and Albrecht benefit from minimal screen time. You haven't seen a lot of them.
There's lots of great games out there.

[smoky solstice]

because it kinda made me reconsider everything

I mean I'm not sure I fully buy it but it's a scary enough thought to make me think

and it's totally a direction DE could go down

[north ferry]

Tbh, feeling any way positive about their relationship despite wanting to much better for Loid means it did good vibes.

[sharp acorn]

I just enjoy that it's a truly free to play game where everything is obtainable through farming and not spending money doesn't affect progression to much

[smoky solstice]

to make this whole 1999 thing even darker, and it would make sense because having explored the ARG (as much as is possible at this point as it's no longer completable), it seems really weird for the quest not to have some sinister implication

[upbeat glacier]

Maybe I'm just easily pleased

[chilly iron]

It was also a beautiful hecking scene, you're allowed to be moved ^^

[north ferry]

i'm don't watch warframe lore videos. What's the premise of this theory?

[north jolt]

I have and now I am properly noided

[smoky solstice]

basically, the 1999 we visit isn't us going back in time, it's basically another duviri-type area, conceptual embodiment of 1999, all of it forged by the indifference, not really clear on the motive there but he thinks the indifference may actually want to bait you into expressing emotion, rather than trying to make you veer away from it

essentially, the indifference played us, nothing is as it seems, none of the hex are real, none of anything in the 1999 quests was real (or at least none of it happened in the same reality as the rest of the game, it wasn't us going back in time), all of it is just duviri once again, another void reality the drifter entered

at least that's what I took from it, he goes into more ofc

[north ferry]

Eh

[upbeat glacier]

Alright here's a. Example of a game I played

I was given a game called dust born and essentially I didn't like it because I felt like it was preaching to me/treating me the player like I'm a dumb dumb

Vs

Warframe that shows beautiful scenes and metaphors that doesn't feel preachy or dumming everything down

[smoky solstice]

a lot of it is based on the ARG, and honestly the ARG doesn't really make much sense if all of it is just as it seems

[north jolt]

Far as 1999 being a conceptual embodiment thing like Duviri, I'm not entirely sure about that. I can pretty easily buy us being manipulated by Wally to become too empathetic towards the Hex to enact Entrati's actual plan (the nuclear meltdown one) though

[north ferry]

I mean that's my interpretation of it without some random dudes silly YouTube... but that's a delicately miserable take.

[chilly iron]

But Albrecht went to 1999 because it was supposed to be a safe place (and it's an anchor point for the vessels)

[glacial bough]

The theory is already bust. Reb said beforehand that 1999 isn't like Duviri, it's actual time travel

[north ferry]

I hate Warframes lore so much.

[upbeat glacier]

NGL I really really want sun and moon

But I really really hate Duvuri lol

[smoky solstice]

I think you should watch the video, I mean he says himself that a lot of it may be wrong and it's all just theory but really if it is as it seems, you literally just have to throw out the ARG

which doesn't make much sense to me

[north jolt]

I guess there's always the possibility that she just lied in order to keep up the mystery, but like I said I'm still not sure I buy it anyways

[smoky solstice]

huh, do you have a clip? or like a written source or something else, I've never seen that

[north jolt]

The 1999 being like Duviri part anyways. Us being manipulated by Wally as a way to foil the real Entrati's plan however, sounds scarily plausible to me

[smoky solstice]

kinda curious now

[upbeat glacier]

I don't like Duviri I spent it confused/frustrated with the gameplay/ annoyed I couldn't get to use my horse outside 1 area

[smoky solstice]

yeah I mean it's a stretch but it also makes a large amount of sense given what the ARG set up, and I'm honestly not sure how to interpret the ARG

[north jolt]

D's theory could be half right

[smoky solstice]

you can use the horse outside of duviri, you just need to level intrinsics

[upbeat glacier]

Huh?!

[north jolt]

1999 could be real but Wally could be setting us up through failure by making us become empathetic towards the Hex

[smoky solstice]

I think it's rank 9 or 10 on whatever the travel intrinsic is called

[north ferry]

The whole being manipulated by the man in the wall stuff is just kinda lame. It's miserable for the sake of misery, and 1999 stuff already does that badly.

It also makes no sense.

[upbeat glacier]

That involves playing Duviri

Agonized wails

[smoky solstice]

it gets better with time. I honestly never really liked the melee combat but you can literally just use the sirroco and it turns into a shooter, with enough decrees, you start one shotting dax, it's not that bad

[north jolt]

I mean we've already more or less have been manipulated by him at different points now up until whispers where we (as the operator) openly defied him

[smoky solstice]

and intrinsics give you MR, should get it done eventually anyway @upbeat glacier

[glacial bough]

Thee's nothing to really interpret with it. The ultimate result of it was letting Wally into 1999

[smoky solstice]

yeah but the eye man

the eye is everywhere in game

[north ferry]

The last thing the indifference wants is emotional attachment. Also, which manipulations exactly?

[glacial bough]

Yeah, it's a big symbol for Entrati

[upbeat glacier]

I just don't like Duviri because idk if my operator sucks but I spend most of Duviri getting clapped

[north jolt]

I know Warframe isn't typically labeled as such, and while not quite as bleak as something like 40K, I think a lot of aspects about Warframe can fit pretty comfortably in so called "grim-dark"

[upbeat glacier]

I disagree

Grim dark means there's no hope

Warframe has hope

[north jolt]

But why though?

[north ferry]

Screw the arg and and the comic, please leave the lore in the game.

[smoky solstice]

yeah but we don't technically know that, I mean I think it's an interesting theory if you look at the video, although I think it's fair if you don't agree with it, I mean even dsiege thinks it's probably not the direction the game will take lol

[hexed oxide]

man, a warframe's creation is enough to classify it as a grim dark imo. comparing it to games like dark souls i see few happy endings in wf too

[north jolt]

Like let's assume Entrati's plan was actually to let the reactor blow up and use the energy generated from that to do whatever. If that's the case then it would make sense for Wally to want us to get close to the Hex so that we would be less likely to allow that to happen

[smoky solstice]

honestly I didn't know about the arg but having looked at it post-quest, it's really cool! like I'm not a huge arg guy but the website is still up (well, most of it, the "end" portion is greyed out completely), and I really liked just going through the notes

honestly the email chain between the supposed DE HR rep and Sam Paige was really grim

[glacial bough]

Except that doesn't help Wally in any way. He wants the emotional imbalance

[north ferry]

Warframe has Grim dark aspects in that for all that's done in the story the overall situation doesn't change and we are always struggling and fighting for survival against overwhelming forces.
However it really doesn't lean on those aspects, because thinks can be done.

[upbeat glacier]

Entrati is a fool imo I believe he's playing into the indifferences game

[smoky solstice]

loved it

[glacial bough]

The interview in question

https://youtu.be/raXAWBCRYQA

[upbeat glacier]

I personally believe the indifference is fueled by hopelessness and despair

[chilly iron]

Our connection to the Hex lets us pilot the Vessel, which was made to fight The Indifference. Why would Wally want that?

[glacial bough]

The more emotional imbalance there is, the stronger a presence Wally can have

That's the entire crux of Whispers

[north jolt]

If Wally doesn't want the reactor explosion to be stopped, then the emotional imbalance is not as helpful

[smoky solstice]

well one thing is that we just assume the indifference thrives on indifference but, as the video points out, it doesn't really seem that indifferent in the quest, it seems quite emotional actually, there's something there

[hexed oxide]

wait a sec, ||if drifter duviri resets hollvania, how come the hex don't remember ?||

[north jolt]

He could basically be weaponizing our own love and compassion against us in order to make us less willing to due what is ultimately necessary to stop him

[glacial bough]

They do remember

[north jolt]

Well they are aware they are in a time loop and remember the first time they failed

[smoky solstice]

do you have a timestamp btw? having a bit of a hard time finding it

[north jolt]

Also, it would also be consistent for Entrati's (a orokin elite) plan to once again, fail and backfire on him like it seemingly does for all orokin

[hexed oxide]

huh ? last time i had KIM dialogue related to that i had the option to ask "you don't remember ?" when a hex alluded to the reactor exploding

[chilly iron]

The problem with assuming the man in the wall wants/doesn't want the big nuke to go off is that we don't know it's end goal. We have no clue.

[north jolt]

True, I want to make it clear Im just speculating based on someone else's theory, but like I said it seems extremely plausible to me

[smoky solstice]

well I'm under the idea that they do remember somewhat. I think since they do the same thing they did the first time on the repeat, only stopped from the same conclusion due to the drifter's interference, they don't really remember details, but they vaguely remembered some aspects. This is confirmed by Arthur saying that "what happened, or what's going to happen in the reactor is beyond [him]", which shows that he kinda knows but also doesn't really know the details

[north ferry]

Pretty sure it's Albercht's plan to use the nuke to make the drifter form an emotional attachment, which is what he needs.

[chilly iron]

Arthur remembers when you talk to him in the back room. He says "I saw them die. I know we won but the grief is still there" (paraphrasing)

[glacial bough]

I mean, he kind of does and doesn't. It halts him in 1999 but he still feeds on the imbalance of the Hex

Letting us build a connection to the Hex does literally nothing Wally wants

[limber pulsar]

they very explicitly remember everything

[north jolt]

There's some other things too that just don't really add up to me personally. Like Im not sure where exactly he is now, but the "Entrati" we see at the end of the quest, I don't think that's the real him tbh. Wherever he is, I think he's gone for now after he, us and Wally disappeared after that bike crash with Rasalka

[north ferry]

And this is the inevitable result of Warframes vibe approach to stoy telling.

[north jolt]

I mean, I already explained pretty simply why I think that MAYBE might not be the case, so 🤷

[north ferry]

We're not given enough solid information to form actual conclusions, just kinda conclusions, which causes issues later on when later things don't fit with kinda conclusions.

[glacial bough]

Albrecht has moved on, yes. But's it's definitely him at the end of the quest

[north jolt]

We basically got nothing but speculation so far

[smoky solstice]

oh nvm I found it, she does seem to confirm that yeah

[north jolt]

Moved on from where? and how? did Wally just let him go after he spirited him and us away from that crash?

[smoky solstice]

then why do they repeat the same exact mistakes the second time around?

like they literally do everything the same, not even trying to change things up

they know exactly what happened, yet they just do the same thing for... reasons?

[north ferry]

Hex is a lame quest tbh, even though the rest of 1999 is great.

[smoky solstice]

hard disagree

[north jolt]

If Entrati just ditched Hollivania entirely without even trying to oversee our progress in becoming closer to the Hex, that's honestly kinda anticlimatic and I would argue not really in character for someone as meticulous as I think he is

Also how did he even get healed up from his torture and beatings that quickly?

[smoky solstice]

I think this is kinda weak evidence of anything since he did get TP'd by the indifference, which could've caused all kinds of things

[north jolt]

Like one minute we see him still bruised and bloodied from what Rasalka and her boywife did to him, and the next time we see him he's just, fine and uninjured?

[smoky solstice]

like at that point we could ask how albrecht and the drifter got in the reactor

[north jolt]

Its still a bit sus to me. Could mean nothing but only time will tell

[north ferry]

Causality is unnecessary.

[smoky solstice]

I just don't think it's evidence of anything is all

I think it could be that that's not the real albrecht but then I think you need to say that it's never the real albrecht since there's no change in behavior or anything

I think it's either always albrecht or never albrecht

[north jolt]

Assuming the darker theory is correct, it could of started out as the real Albrecht, the one actually asking us to let the nuke go off. But then after the crash and teleportation he got swapped out for a double ganger, which we know Wally can create seemingly easily and we even see a Albrecht double ganger at the end of Whispers

Maybe that was foreshadowing?

[smoky solstice]

well yeah but then he doesn't really say anything different