lore-discussion

[limber pulsar]

theres even that bolt from way back in vor’s prize, but dont know how well it would work after second dream

[manic horizon]

What did the ascaris even do

[feral cape]

A parasite

That would overtake the warframe

[graceful swan]

Didn't it also become a bomb

[north ferry]

The fact of the matter is. There's kinda millions, if not billions or even trillions of individuals in those factions. And tenno are not really anywhere close to that number, I imagine it's easily possible to never encounter a Tenno.

I believe so.

[feral cape]

Its easy to encounter a tenno we are the only ones who fight them really

[chilly iron]

The people on Cetus regularly push back against the Grineer, I imagine

As do the ones on Fortuna against the Corpus

[north ferry]

Corpus, Narmer, Infested, Meridian and all the other syndicates, the greater Tenno faction and support structures and presumably countless other minor factions that aren't specifically covered by the game.
Origin is a big, big place.

[graceful swan]

Morec0 Asks: I'm certain that the Colonists have attempted, and likely continue to attempt, self-defence against the Grineer or Corpus throughout their history. What sort of weapons have they used or even made to defend themselves?

Even well-prepared Colonists likely do not have an appropriate defense that could withstand a premeditated Grineer or Corpus invasion, but there have been reports of some colonies surviving such attacks through unconventional means.

The most frequent come from Colonists that have enlisted the help of freelance mercenaries or Syndicates such as Steel Meridian. These deadly firefights still see causalities, but raids are expected on settlements unfortunate enough to catch the attention of the Grineer Empire. Corpus engagements can often be negotiated before coming to violence, but these contracts are rarely mutually beneficial for both parties.

A rare exception is the reported instance of a Corpus Hostile Investigation Unit that was held back by a single juvenile colonist. Description of the incident from HIU informants is unclear, but the core of the report focuses around several hand-made booby-traps that caused serious injuries preventing the team from performing a full sweep of the area.

[upbeat glacier]

So here's a question

Is there a canon tenno who's going on all these adventures and we're just character tenno

[north ferry]

Uhhh

Eternalism!

Seriously though, it doesn't make a 100% sense either way and really depends on how you want to interpret stuff but tend towards a yes

[graceful swan]

For each quest you are the Chosen Operator but other Tenno exist doing other things

[upbeat glacier]

Also am I the only one extremely dissatisfied with the new war

Like it was a good quest but they marketed it as the final battle yet honestly all we did was postpone the war because the sentients are in Tau still

Like we killed erra and hunhow is just chilling

But Natah mother is still out there and the sentients are still in Tau

[woven coyote]

i dont think you understood what the new war was about

[upbeat glacier]

Probably not but I still want to go on the offensive lol

[candid elm]

Idk I mean either albrechts comment about tau we might? If anything after this void arc they'll pick back up narmer and make tau/the sentients take the spotlight

[restive river]

Praghasa is dead
Erra still lives through Pazuul
And Hunhow is chill because he can’t really do much else, plus we saved his daughter and helped Stalker

[woven coyote]

yeah but the new war wasnt about the sentients, much less the ones left in tau and that by now probably have nothing to do with the differences that sparked the old war

[upbeat glacier]

Other sentients don't know that

[candid elm]

Maybe smth with the corpus might be a side story to hold us off since they've been a larger focus what with jade shadows/dante

[restive river]

Parvos is a potential large threat

[upbeat glacier]

What I'm getting at is that the indifference still has a lot of chess pieces

[candid elm]

Maybe hunhow hears narmer trying to go to tau to convert or do whatever the hell to tau and so it's up to you to stop then since the lotus obviously would have a connection to tau and would want you to stop narmer

[restive river]

It’s possible we will go to Tau sometime in the next 2-3 years
Big doubt it’d be this year

[candid elm]

Oh no way

But I can see it in the future as the next huge big giant expansion like zarimen was

[restive river]

Considering what Albrecht said and the convos I’ve had with the Hex (cause I swear we talked about Tau) we will go eventually

[restive river]

You mean like the Zariman, Labs and 1999 :?

[candid elm]

Yeah

[restive river]

Cause I’d expect Tau to be bigger than a hub with a large explorable tileset ngl

[upbeat glacier]

What I'm also getting at is the fact that the sentients and narmer are still on the board so the chances of conflict with either is still there alongside the man in the wall

[restive river]

We’re actively fighting Narmer

And we don’t know what’s up with Tau

[north ferry]

There's a whole solar system full of content and conflict already. There are still sentinents to fight in system and probably will always be at the behest of the archons.

[woven coyote]

@candid elm the point i'm making isn't about what happens from now on, it's about this
the new war ended because it wasn't about the sentients, it was about balla's huge ego, sure it's consequences fed into wally's increased activity but the new war is over and the point of it was never to genocide all sentients

[candid elm]

Maybe...they'll do an open world? Could be fun to see what sentient civilian stuff would look like, as well as just non combat sentients in general

[restive river]

Aside from Albrecht mentioning Tau we have no reason to go to Tau, the sentients aren’t our enemies anymore

They haven’t really been our enemy since the old war ended

[north ferry]

Half the time the questions is, we don't know what is even going on with them.

[restive river]

They got their home, let them have it

[north ferry]

Tbf the Sentients have always been kinda... not a cohesive enemy faction.

[candid elm]

That's what I'm saying, we go there to save then from narmer, we know they want to go to tau why I don't know but I doubt it'll be for good reasons

[restive river]

If they do another open world I’d def rather it be for Tau than anything else ngl
We already have open worlds for the main factions + the void

[upbeat glacier]

I get that but the sentients will try again and again

All I'm saying is we go to tau and make it clear we can easily invade them and maybe then peace could happen

[restive river]

Try what again and again?

[north ferry]

... yes that is indeed how peace works

[upbeat glacier]

I'm sure hunhow would probably help

[candid elm]

They are peaceful with us

Well the ones not with narmer

[upbeat glacier]

Invasion

[restive river]

What you’re suggesting would just start another war lmao

[restive river]

No, they haven’t since they won.

[graceful swan]

New New War?

[upbeat glacier]

New war 2 electric boogaloo

[woven coyote]

if they were going to try again they would've by now

[restive river]

^^^

[north ferry]

We know nothing about what's going on in Tau, and considering the Tenno are hardly holding the various forces in Origin in check, we probably couldn't.

We didn't even beat them either time.

[woven coyote]

you make it sound like sentients think like the orokin but even hunhow who was in the old war doesnt feel like fighting anymore

[restive river]

We are peaceful with Tau, we are not their enemy since we genocided their enemy.

[graceful swan]

Didn't those Sentients purposefully stay out of the War?

[candid elm]

Would they even be able too? They can't go through the void and rhe mother blew up and hunhow probably doesn't have the strength to be space bound

[proper barn]

I DONT THINK WE COULD EASILY INVADE IT. WE HAVE ONLY BEEN FIGHTING like damaged by the void fragments of hunhow.

we have HAVENT FOUGHT ANYONE ELSE

[restive river]

They can go the long way

[proper barn]

just Hunhow Fragments and his kids fragments

[north ferry]

Oh, well old war I suppose they were but that was the unified Orokin empire against a half feigned defeat.

[upbeat glacier]

So the sentients either

Assume ballas and friends just stomped us

Or

They said heck no when we won and just decided to stay away

[proper barn]

AND HE IS BASICLLY DEAD

[restive river]

But they would’ve arrived by now if that was the case

[restive river]

The second one.

[proper barn]

I think it would go REALLY REALLY REALLY bad if we tried to invade Tau

[candid elm]

That would take an untold amount of time, like more then from the old war to current

[north ferry]

Or... the sentients in Origin are a completely different group to those in Tau and perhaps have no actual connection or communication.

[proper barn]

like MULTIPLE WARFRAMES TRIED IT in the mag prime codex

[graceful swan]

Didn't Hunhow destroy the rail?

[restive river]

The only fast way to Tau was destroyed
The Sentients can chill in Tau
We are peaceful with them since neither side has any reason to attack

[upbeat glacier]

That's what I'm getting at

[restive river]

Hunhow only attacked cause he was racist :p

[proper barn]

and we just GOT BODIED cuz THEY ARE LIKE WAY MORE THERE AND NOT VOID DAMAGED AND NOT JUST HUNHOW

[restive river]

They are a different group, its just the Lotus’ family :p

[proper barn]

WHY WOULD THIS BE A GOOD IDEA

[upbeat glacier]

And ballas was a sad man child

[north ferry]

It's a terrible idea in all aspects.

[restive river]

No?

[woven coyote]

except they wouldnt even know wether we won or not
contact was cut
and their whole thing was about preventing the orokin from ruining tau
if the way for the orokin to reach tau was cut
and they had no news of the orokin for eons
they literally have no reason to "try again"

[normal mountain]

Maybe Hunhow was just one of THOSE extremists?

[candid elm]

Again I'm saying we don't invade them, we save them from narmer

[north ferry]

Yes, we hate Ballas.

[restive river]

I mean
He likely was lol
He saw all humans as Orokin

[candid elm]

I don't think you realize just how big space is, how empty it is

[proper barn]

I THINK THEY WOULD JUST SQUISH ANYTHING

[upbeat glacier]

Seriously I do wish we could have given ballas a bigger beating

He got off easy 😤

[candid elm]

The vast expanse of what is in the simplest of terms

Nothing

[proper barn]

Like i can't imagine they aren't super strong they literally no-diffed a whole invasion FORCE

[woven coyote]

again sentients are not the orokin their objective is met as long as orokin dont reach and ruin tau

[graceful swan]

No Narmer are in Tau

[north ferry]

What makes you think Narmer controls them? Narmer is specifically a faction in Origin and is now controlled by Pazuul and Archons, in Origin.

[candid elm]

Yes but narmer wants to go to tau

[proper barn]

also Tau literally was winning. they basiclly won like Hunhow was in the Origin system and everything.

[restive river]

I do, I don’t think you realize that in the time the Zariman disappeared and reappeared the Orokin made the sentients, sent them to Tau, they terraformed Tau, a war started, the warframes were made and canned due to going feral
We also don’t know just how fast they travel, just that it isn’t ftl due to lack of void travel.

[proper barn]

YES they do seeminlgy wanna rebuild the Solar rail. i think that's what the 3rd orb fight is gonna be us stopping them rebuilding them.

[north ferry]

Stop saying Tau was winning like the whole solar system of Tau is some unified existence.

[upbeat glacier]

Let's not forget they didn't want to because they'll get sterilized

[restive river]

If the Tau sentients wanted to start something they would have.

[restive river]

That’s why I included the lack of void travel.

[proper barn]

the sentients had basiclly won. also I mean it seemed to be unifed in the mag prime codex lmao.

[woven coyote]

^^

[proper barn]

YEAH WE ARE FIGHTING SENTIENTS THAT HAVE DONE THAT

and only 1 of them

[north ferry]

Or, there are plans with and we are currently scrambling to sort it out and we dont know Hence Archon hunts.

[proper barn]

Archon hunts is narmer

not tau.

[upbeat glacier]

Also imma be honest 1999 still confuses me as well

The whole multiverse of Warframe basically made my brain deflate

[north ferry]

Yes I know. But again, they talk a lot about things like pazuul's lines the Lords of Tau and implications there's something going on. We don't know where it starts or where it ends. We don't know what we don't know.

[north ferry]

That's perfectly normal tbh

[upbeat glacier]

I mean there could be tenno from a universe where narmer is still in control

[restive river]

1999 isnt part of multiverse stuff

Its just normal time travel

[proper barn]

yeah i think we think about like multiverse stuff

when we don't actually have any really.

[north ferry]

Pretty sure it's close enough to both.

[proper barn]

it's werid.

[upbeat glacier]

Operator and drifter

[restive river]

No eternalism here
1999 is just the actual past

[upbeat glacier]

I don't know considering 1999 has the one guy running around who made protoforms

[north ferry]

Not sure about that, I get the impression it's kinda both.

[restive river]

We even know that the changes we make in 1999 effect the future due to the Coda Liches

[upbeat glacier]

Wouldn't messing with the past make another future

[restive river]

Still not multiverse?

[north ferry]

Although probably easier to conclude it's just time travel.

[restive river]

Thats just Albrecht going back in time and making the protos

Which doesn’t actually effect anything on the larger scale

[restive river]

Clearly not in this case

Since again, the coda liches

Also the whole reason we keep looping 1999 is to retain the changes we make to the timeline

[north ferry]

Am I the only one that persumes that the labs kinda pocket universes?

[upbeat glacier]

When it comes to time travel or multiverse shenanigans I get easily confused lol

[restive river]

We know 1999 is the actual past and that alternate futures aren’t being created.

[north ferry]

How do we know?

[restive river]

Less pocket universe and more the void, specifically Wally is spilling into it

[north ferry]

I've missed something again.

[restive river]

Coda Liches.

[chilly iron]

We're also preserving the future from any Wallace changes, like Ducky mentioned

[upbeat glacier]

Also I really really get confused why the scaldra and hex are enemies besides being protos when they have pretty similar goals

[restive river]

We know that our actions in the past effect the future, no alternate timelines

[upbeat glacier]

Also the scaldra are the actual military

[proper barn]

yes

Of a small nation state

that is very religous it seems.

[restive river]

Scaldra attack civilians and perceive the Hex as techrot
The Hex are against them attacking civilians

[north ferry]

Where is this information?

[upbeat glacier]

Hans are we the baddies

[restive river]

Its all on the Scaldra side of things

[proper barn]

literally no

[upbeat glacier]

I mean aren't they trying to contain a outbreak essentially?

[restive river]

Observed from the 1999 demo from tennocon where they literally show us the creation of a lich and a “meanwhile in the origin system” screen where we then fight those liches

[north ferry]

Yeah that's because DE did a terrible job with communicating anything in that story.

[proper barn]

The Scralda are literally the ones killing civilians and the hEx are there as a like aid.

[sly ibex]

Same reasons we fight against the Corpus, Grineer, and Infested. Civilians mean nothing to any of them.

[woven coyote]

if only they stopped at that

[proper barn]

no? they are trying to kill all the civialians.

[restive river]

If this was alternate timelines then the coda liches wouldn’t be in the origin system, they’d be in another version of the future.

[restive river]

They are but are also actively harming civilians to further their own goals

[sly ibex]

They really didn't. They spelled it out pretty clearly as the world's 1999, as opposed to an Eternalism one.

[proper barn]

ALSO @upbeat glacier 1/2 of the hex leadership had Wally in her.

[upbeat glacier]

I always thought the scaldra are like Fedra from the last of us

While cold and pragmatic they have no choice

[proper barn]

no they have a choice.

[restive river]

Scaldra is using their fight against the techrot to take Hollvania for themselves.

[chilly iron]

The Scaldra are using the techrot as an excuse to set up their own... whatever it is they want it to be
Yeah that

[proper barn]

literally untrue. Also The hex even talk about it.

and how like they at first worked with the Scaldra but later stopped cuz they where killing so many civiallians

[woven coyote]

that much is told in the exterminate missions with victor spouting propaganda and aoi being outraged

[proper barn]

and they wanted to help people not kill them.

[upbeat glacier]

Ok ok so assuming 1999 is on our earth

Where is the UN and stuff

[proper barn]

THAT'S WHAT THE HEX ARE PART OF

[north ferry]

They are the UN

[restive river]

Exactly

[woven coyote]

literally who sent the hex lol

[north ferry]

Or formerly at least.

[proper barn]

they are part of the "peace keeping force" or something

[restive river]

Its specifically an alternate version of Earth

[sly ibex]

No, on Warframe's Earth. It's not really the real world Earth.

[restive river]

Also this

[upbeat glacier]

Oh

[restive river]

There is no USA
Instead its the USL for example :p

[proper barn]

It's who sent the hex originally. they weren't Proto frames then

Like in the comic it even says that.

[sly ibex]

And Canata instead of Canada. XD

[restive river]

Minus Eleanor and Amir

[proper barn]

yee

[woven coyote]

before albrecht flipped on them the hex were a scout team sent by the UN equivalent

[restive river]

Rebb wasn’t lying when she said no Canada

[sly ibex]

[restive river]

She did lie about Tau to some extent tho

[lament stirrup]

The Hex were sent by the ICR ( a peace keeping force), except Eleanor who was doing journalism on the techrot and Amir who just had a job in the nuclesr plant.
They left the ICR after discovering peace keeping involves shooting civillians.

[sly ibex]

?

[proper barn]

"no canada here." "Suspicously canada Shaped Canata"

Albretch mentions tau

[upbeat glacier]

What I'm getting at it's just them not like more troopers fighting the scaldra

[restive river]

She said there was no plans for Tau
But now it looks like Tau is a potential future stop for the void war

[upbeat glacier]

Like where's the rest of the ICR

[chilly iron]

Hollvania is locked down and quarantined, likely other countries are going "man I hope that stays in there, they can deal with their own mess"

[restive river]

If I had to guess
They did
Or they sent a speciality squad since they didnt know the full situation

[upbeat glacier]

Off to lunch?

[proper barn]

yeah Cuz they where originally working with the goverment of this and kinda working with the scalrda they are not anymore.

[sly ibex]

I think she said no plans for the near future, right? Not necessarily none ever.

[proper barn]

YEAH

lmao

[sharp acorn]

Tech rot probably got them

[proper barn]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-technically-correct-technically-correct-best-kind-gif-1003665987735080676

[restive river]

Yeah I believe so
Just find it interesting that she said that and now Tau seems like it’s somewhere on the horizon

[upbeat glacier]

Arthur mentions hes from brittania which I'm assuming is just Britain

[proper barn]

yeah

[restive river]

Like I doubt its in 2025

[proper barn]

Quincy also talks about racism. i can't believe warframe added racsim to 1999/s

[sly ibex]

We will see when we get it. 😄 Should be cool, whenever that is!

[woven coyote]

i think i remember a character mentioning that hollvania has probably been written off by now

[north ferry]

Brittanic I believe is the name.

[restive river]

During the devshort it sounded like tennocon would be big this year

[woven coyote]

yup

[upbeat glacier]

Oof

Can you imagine having to fight

Scaldra

Icr soldiers

Brittania soldiers

And whoever

[sly ibex]

2 day TennoCon is so cool. 😄

[upbeat glacier]

We'd be a surprise to a modern army lol

[restive river]

[sharp acorn]

We could take them

[lament stirrup]

I imagine ICR and Brittania solders would be torturously.mundane compared to the acid/steroid fascists and angry teleprompters.

[upbeat glacier]

Considering we can solo tanks

[sharp acorn]

We've done a lot more then just solo tanks

[sly ibex]

What I want to know is how any Scaldra are left after just one or two days of fighting us.

[proper barn]

@upbeat glacier BTW for proof

[upbeat glacier]

I'm saying we could solo anything in their arsenal

But not nukes

[north ferry]

Such a loss for narrative opertunity, there's so much awesome stuff that can be done with the entirety of the 1999 premise and so little there is.

[upbeat glacier]

I wasn't doubting I'm just curious

[proper barn]

Yee

I didn't think you where

[upbeat glacier]

Actually wait

Could a Warframe tank a nuke

[proper barn]

https://www.warframe.com/media/comics/warframe1999

also no they can't.

[glacial bough]

No, not straight up

[proper barn]

Critine couldn't.

[lament stirrup]

They explicitly don't in the Hex quest.

[glacial bough]

Wasn't really a nuke in that case

[sly ibex]

Limbo could, sort of. Just by being in the Rift. XD

[upbeat glacier]

I'm referring to our Warframes not the protos

[proper barn]

That's why I said Citrine

[north ferry]

I mean the whole 1999 warframe throws any sense of scale, power, lore/gameplay differences out of whack.

[proper barn]

But yeah we can't.

[glacial bough]

It really doesn't

[north ferry]

Just shield gate the nuke, smh.

[upbeat glacier]

Grendal might be able to eat it XD

[glacial bough]

Like, we know nothing in 1999 is as strong at what we have

[lament stirrup]

I don't think theres a major defensive difference between warframes and protos. Like, the protoframes suffer chronic illness as a result of the proto-frame strain but in gameplay they handle bullets as fine as any other frame.

[glacial bough]

Protos are fully not as durable

[sly ibex]

Chronic illness?

[upbeat glacier]

I believe they're weaker

Considering aoi got stuck under a truck that we lifted easily

[north ferry]

Plot excuses.

[glacial bough]

Just getting shanked nearly put Arthur in a T-shirt

[lament stirrup]

It takes the Drifter a decent amount of effort to lift that truck.

[glacial bough]

I wouldn't say a decent amount

[north ferry]

Aoi has a whole mental issue with capacity and stuff. She skipped her potato diet.

[lament stirrup]

Eleanor's on constant bedrest outside of combat, plus whatever else they had going on before the timeloop halted their infection.

[sly ibex]

If Operator went back, I feel like we could have wrapped things up in one go. 😛

[north ferry]

I mean... not really

[restive river]

Helminth halted their infection by making them more infected :p

[restive river]

I think Drifter had to go due to their experience with time loops

Also cause the romance system but thats not really a lore reason :p

[upbeat glacier]

Ok real idea

Can you imagine us getting a mission where to protect the hex we tear apart a aircraft carrier solo to prevent it bombing the area

Just me?

[lament stirrup]

That's unironically how theoretical Retrovirus gene therapy would work.

[chilly iron]

And because no one wants a child on a battlefield, nor would they listen to one

[lament stirrup]

I have terrible news about the entire history of the Tenno

[north ferry]

Drifter had to go because they weren't 'owned' by the Indifference and wouldn't have cracked 1999 wide open for Wally.

[restive river]

The Orokin:

[glacial bough]

It's Drifter because Wally doesn't want anyone from them

[restive river]

That too yeah

[sly ibex]

[chilly iron]

I mean yes but 1999 humans, people like us

[graceful swan]

Infected + Ultra

[upbeat glacier]

Grineer:

[restive river]

Yeah I know, just pointing out the Orokin used children and suck

[chilly iron]

The Hex would absolutely send a kid packing and tell them to go home

[restive river]

The Grineer don’t use children
Unless you count clones as children

[lament stirrup]

I mean, the 1999 humans aren't like us, but fair point.

[restive river]

1999 humans have funky hair colors

[upbeat glacier]

Accelerated aging soo they are technically children

[graceful swan]

Queens using a child

[upbeat glacier]

Oh god

Assuming the grineer are like clones from Star wars

We slaughter the entire orphanages daily

[restive river]

Attempted theft of the body of a child isnt the same as using children for war

[proper barn]

they are sending like 3 year olds to war

[upbeat glacier]

[lament stirrup]

^ The Queens lawyer explaining why they shouldn't be tried for war crimes.

[restive river]

Real

[proper barn]

lmao

[sly ibex]

I just want to see how conversations would go with the Hex and Operator, honestly. My curiosity on how it would all go, especially with Operator speaking and acting so differently from Drifter, is definitely piqued.

[restive river]

Same

[upbeat glacier]

Okay but seriously all the grineer we kill are probably only a couple months or a year old

[graceful swan]

Imagine a what if the Orokin were charged for their crimes

[lament stirrup]

Headcanon that the drifter hates pizza because its round food in a square container.
Tantamount to eating animal feed on a silver platter /j

[upbeat glacier]

At that point the Geneva convention is a checklist

[sly ibex]

We already passed that sentence. 😛

[restive river]

Still wish we could relive the night of the naga drums

[upbeat glacier]

Also lore wise we probably order 66 the orokin

[silk atlas]

Pretty sure the Warframes themselves rattle off every single thing in the book

[restive river]

We literally genocide them on the night of the naga drums lmao

[sly ibex]

Also a fun fact, no Geneva ever existed in Warframe, so they may never have had a Geneva Conventions equivalent. XD

[lament stirrup]

Less genocide and more french revolution.

[graceful swan]

Nihil got such a kind ending he didn’t deserve it

[restive river]

Def genocide, minus the entrati, ballas and nihil we killed them all.

[lament stirrup]

They were a social class, not an ethnicity.

[restive river]

His mind may be broken so idk bout that

[silk atlas]

Name something the Geneva Conventions wouldn't be broken by with Warframes

[upbeat glacier]

Actually do you think the tenno suffer any guilt or trauma from slaughtering men women and probably children

Would make a interesting quest

[north ferry]

Guns

[restive river]

I headcanon the fact he says the same lines over and over again to be because we beat him so hard we fractured his cephalized mind

[sly ibex]

And the Queens, until the one recently. There may also be some more, but clearly not enough to regain their lost power and society

[north ferry]

Yes, yes they absolutely do.

[restive river]

They were kids outcasted by the Orokin, so idk if we would have gone after them ngl

[graceful swan]

TWW was literally about our trauma

[restive river]

That was more so about the trauma sealed away by Margulis and relates to the Zariman Incident related trauma

[lament stirrup]

The Tenno don't shoot civillians? They've got that going for them.

[restive river]

I dont think we felt any remorse for what we did to the Orokin

[upbeat glacier]

Yeah

[restive river]

They’re the reason we lost our family and why there is so much pain

[upbeat glacier]

The orokin

[restive river]

They literally put us to war lmao

[restive river]

Not civilians

[proper barn]

to be fair we killed all the leadership. (mostly) lmao

[lament stirrup]

I think you lose civillian status if you maintain your youth by torturing children and stealing their bodies.

[graceful swan]

We kill people aiming guns at us and attacking us

[upbeat glacier]

I'm referring to the non leader orokin

[restive river]

Ballas got away but we helped our mom kill him in the end

[proper barn]

yep

[sly ibex]

Orokin did use them to control civilians, so probably did. That's likely a huge part of what led to VIVA LA REVOLUTION

[lament stirrup]

The Orokin were all leaders. They were the ruling class.

[upbeat glacier]

Idk how the average joe orokin was

[restive river]

We (as in the Tenno) killed Son’s fiancé

[proper barn]

NOT AT ALL

CUZ THEY ARE THE RUILING ROYAL CLASS

[upbeat glacier]

If that's the case

[proper barn]

"oh those french noblity where some Average joes"

[upbeat glacier]

Why haven't we killed the father, sister, mother and grandmother

[silk atlas]

"Orokin" usually is used to refer to the top brass, any joe schmoe would be considered part of the "Orokin Empire"

[upbeat glacier]

If we are gonna be technical

[north ferry]

We didn't go for the Average Joe orokin. There's Orokin the class and Orokin the society structured around that class.

[lament stirrup]

Because they aren't torturing anyone except each other.

[proper barn]

Cuz they are nice to us and kinda hate the greater orokin.

[graceful swan]

And the Grandfather

[proper barn]

But also we did Kill Son's Fiance. @upbeat glacier

[sly ibex]

Yes and no. The Executors were the true rulers, even among the Orokin.

[chilly iron]

They're safeguarding the source of Tenno power

(And they like us)

[proper barn]

Also they dislike other orokin.

[upbeat glacier]

Because NGL if we ever had to kill them

I would not like it at all

Especially the grandma

She's a real one

[proper barn]

Like mother literally says "Ballas lap dog" or something

doesn't she?

[graceful swan]

We need them to make sure the Heart is maintained

[north ferry]

Probably would have if the situation had been different, but it wasn't. Exceptions existed, like normal.

[sly ibex]

And they aren't like they may have been before. Heck, Son saying that "we (the Orokin) deserved it," was an incredibly humble thing from him.

[proper barn]

yeah

[north ferry]

Oh god I forgot the Heart existed as a lore thing.

[proper barn]

Like i said we killed his Fiance

[north ferry]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[chilly iron]

He likely doesn't remember that

[upbeat glacier]

Regret

[graceful swan]

Did he ever forgive us for that

[sly ibex]

And Teshin's love. 😦

[chilly iron]

They don't remember a lot of things cause infestation

[proper barn]

Critine and 2 Scienctists where the ones to do the infestation bomb.

[upbeat glacier]

Extreme regret

[proper barn]

To stop the sentients from destorying the heart.

[graceful swan]

Son just let it inside the house

[lament stirrup]

Its not clear if he did that on purpose.

[chilly iron]

Accidentally! Kinda... maybe...

[upbeat glacier]

I thought he let an infected animal inside because he wanted to study it

[lament stirrup]

Especially since his Cryptilex dialogue implies the infestation was a gradual process rather than throwing the doors open and getting wormed.

[proper barn]

Yeah grandmother like cooked the things

lmao..

[lament stirrup]

And I would let her cook.

[sly ibex]

Except Grandmother, who has a suspiciously long memory (not in a bad way). I want to know more of what she knows. XD

[upbeat glacier]

I do wish we could cure em

[proper barn]

I MEAN they might be able to be

but idk if they want that.

[lament stirrup]

I'm pretty sure Continuity is the only cure left for them. And its suspect if theres enough Kuva for that, much less if the Tenno are willing.

[upbeat glacier]

Also one thing that always irritates me about the tenno

We preach about justice

Yet we don't beat nefs face in and free the Solaris

[graceful swan]

If they were wouldn’t it be dangerous for them to be in the house

[proper barn]

yeah Grandma talks about how like "they think they will just continituy into new bodies at some point"

[lament stirrup]

Becuase Nef is outside the Tenno's reach. They're not all powerful.

[sly ibex]

There's plenty of Kuva for that, now that it's been getting gathered en masse again. We could always do clone bodies for them, too. Ones without their own minds, or something.

[lament stirrup]

Thats why they pay off Solaris debts and run sabotage for Eudico.

[proper barn]

Cuz he could turn on the other solaris Worse. Like There's a reason Eudico is in a postion of power so she can help more.

[graceful swan]

How did Albrecht go back to Deimos without being noticed?

[chilly iron]

One punched face does not a liberated people make

[lament stirrup]

I mean, if the Elder Queen still hasn't been resurrected there must be something wrong with modern Kuva

[proper barn]

I think he has teleporters.

[graceful swan]

Void portals?

[upbeat glacier]

Idk after the vent kid and index quest

I've wanted to slam my galantine through his face

[sly ibex]

You can't continuity someone who is dead-dead.

[proper barn]

maybe

[sly ibex]

Which ties into my belief that the Ordan story involved Blue Kuva, since the Orokin were back just fine.

[graceful swan]

Tell her sister that

[proper barn]

I think we might see her at some point.

[lament stirrup]

The Worm Queen keeps insisiting she can, and she clearly isn't using the Kuva herself.

[sly ibex]

She is, just not on herself. That's where all the Liches are coming from.

[lament stirrup]

Well yeah, but the Liches don't seem to be using continuity either, except possibly the first time when they transition from Larva to 7 foot tall wrestlers.

[graceful swan]

The Kuva keeps them alive

[north ferry]

Also I mean, that's even if the Worm Queen wants to revive her. Or indeed the limits to Kuva.

[upbeat glacier]

What about the sisters

They're immortality is confusing

[sly ibex]

Specter Particles, for them.

[lament stirrup]

They appear to be using specter technology/ void energy.
Somehow?

[sly ibex]

I don't quite get what they have going on, but something related to that.

[proper barn]

i think Kuva just makes peopel powerful when they use it in general. like Voruna uses it to fuse hEr REAL dogs and their souls into her warframe self

[lament stirrup]

Which does not explain the extra three feet of height.

[north ferry]

Time travel juice huh, didn't know that. Not done a sister yet.

Space magic

[upbeat glacier]

I don't mind them being tall 😏

[graceful swan]

Will Infested Liches use weapons?

[lament stirrup]

Kuva is explicitly meant to transfer minds between bodies, so its not wholly implausible thst it could Bind Voruna's wolves to her body. Admittedly there may be some warframe technology/ tenno void magic going on there.

[proper barn]

Like we have Kuva Grinner as like a subtype of grinner.

Like are they like dipping them in it or something?

[lament stirrup]

I'm pretty sure Kuva Grineer are just Grineer kitted out with better gear.

[upbeat glacier]

So the younger queen of the grineer seems to be more

Ehem

Reasonable then her older sister

[sly ibex]

?

[graceful swan]

She’s not younger they’re twins lol

[lament stirrup]

One of her lines involves encouraging loyal workers to blow them selves up, so. Debateable definition of reasonable.

[feral cape]

Because they arnt evil

[proper barn]

Probably but it's funnier to imagine them hydro dipping Kuva grinner in like a vat of Kuva.

[upbeat glacier]

I'm referring to the fact that she probably gave the ok to ally with us and the corpus during new war

[sly ibex]

And turning others into slurry for her to eat.

[upbeat glacier]

Something the other sister didn't do

[lament stirrup]

You know, fair point.

[sly ibex]

She's not there anymore to ally with us or anyone.

She has been dead since The War Within.

[lament stirrup]

Is there any closer alliance than hollowing out someones skin and wearing it like a suit?

[upbeat glacier]

I'm saying had she been alive I doubt the grineer would have allied with us

[graceful swan]

Why didn’t we kill both

[lament stirrup]

The Worm Queen ran while the Elder attacked.

[sly ibex]

I actually think she would have still allied with us, honestly.

[upbeat glacier]

Avoid a power vacuum I guess

[sly ibex]

The Queens have been around since before the Sentient invasion, so I doubt either would want the Sentients to win.

[upbeat glacier]

If both queens died the grineer would probably have a civil war

[graceful swan]

Sounds fun

[upbeat glacier]

Between

Vay hek

Vor

Uhhh the doctor dude I forget his name

And the girl at that arena

[lament stirrup]

A void cult of Grineer led by Vor would be so much fun actually.

[graceful swan]

As long as it doesn’t affect me I’m fine with them killing each other

[chilly iron]

Except Kahl

[graceful swan]

Kahl won’t be affected

[lament stirrup]

Kahl isn't Grineer anymore.

At least, not politically. He's still a clone obviously.

[chilly iron]

That's true, it's not his problem. But I would protect Kahl and his brothers from everything, they're precious

[upbeat glacier]

We need to cure kahl

[restive river]

Tengus?

[upbeat glacier]

Yeah him

[restive river]

Isnt he dead :?

[upbeat glacier]

Nooo????

[restive river]

I mean so is Vor kinda but

I thought Tengus died off screen :?

[upbeat glacier]

Idk

[chilly iron]

I totally forgot about him XD

[north ferry]

Who's even Tengus?

[upbeat glacier]

Considering we've canonically killed alad V 10 times or more

I doubt anyone stays dead lol

[lament stirrup]

Tengus survived after releasing the infested on mercury.

[north ferry]

Lore and gameplay inconsistencies.

[restive river]

The tubemen guy is dead

Technically Tyana Pass happens before he died

[upbeat glacier]

If alad V can survive his hundreds of deaths

I'm sure tube dude can too

[restive river]

Alad got lucky many many times

[north ferry]

But yeah turns out when you're at the top of the ladder in the far future, you've got a lot of resources to avoid being murdered.

[restive river]

Also gameplay does not always equal lore lol

[upbeat glacier]

Seriously alad V is like that mosquito that won't die

[restive river]

He’s maybe dead after the new war but we shall see

[upbeat glacier]

I doubt he's dead

[restive river]

He may or may not have been on that ship

[upbeat glacier]

He's a coward so he probably had a escape pod, teleporter at the resdy

[north ferry]

We haven't seen him since really.

[lament stirrup]

He's definitly not dead. Even putting aside Alad's absurd durability, Corpus ships explicitly have an ejection feature for the bridge.

[upbeat glacier]

And he's infamous for switching allegiances more times then I've made toast

[north ferry]

But he's the kinda character, like pretty much most of the rest, that would have gone to ground alongside all other major figures one Narmer starts veiling.

[upbeat glacier]

He probably would have joined ballas honestly

[north ferry]

Hmm, honestly, with how he's kinda jumped every faction, new Narmer boss Alad would be funny.

[upbeat glacier]

Honestly idk what he is anymore

Sociopath?

Narcissist?

Ego maniac?

[restive river]

Salad

[lament stirrup]

Hold on, I have a meme for this.

[candid elm]

A shame they never did anything else with veso

[north ferry]

I honestly don't think he's any of those. He's just slime

[candid elm]

I get it he died but I don't think it'd been a stretch to say parvos did some granum void stuff and rescued veso or whatever

[upbeat glacier]

God I hope that one corpus captain in jade shadow wasn't punished

[north ferry]

We have enough stretching, we don't need more.

[upbeat glacier]

She is the most sensible person

[candid elm]

He certainly has more of the original values then any other corpus

[north ferry]

She probably was but yeah, give us a new vendor.

[normal mountain]

Had funny thought
Have Alad get a small chance to appear veiled in Kahl missions

[candid elm]

Nah

[lament stirrup]

Parvos is clearly interested in Jade's Remnants, so I imagine Xeto recieved some form of compesation instead of promotion.

[upbeat glacier]

Also is parvos good or bad

He has some good points

[candid elm]

That'd prevent them from really ever using him again

[lament stirrup]

Parvos is a bad guy who's very good at running a cult.

[upbeat glacier]

I mean he's the complete opposite of nef

[candid elm]

I think he's good he just does things that are against what we do? Idk

[north ferry]

He's bad. He's just bad

[normal mountain]

Just that what he does isn't very nice

[upbeat glacier]

He believes in self reliance and hard work

[north ferry]

He ..

[upbeat glacier]

Pretty commendable

[north ferry]

No, no he does not.

[upbeat glacier]

Unlike nef

[lament stirrup]

Yeah uh. Every cult leader says they're in favor of good values. While they screw everyone over in the name of personal profit.

[upbeat glacier]

https://youtu.be/NjKa1sHuIFg?si=9xG7EJXhzzOnbtF6

[lament stirrup]

He's just smart enough to pay people who are good at their jobs instead of draining them for all their worth.

[normal mountain]

Wait, hold on, I misread that
Darn, that ruined the joke

[candid elm]

I'm kinda sad they made parvos a bad guy, I would've liked to join forces with him to restore the corpus to its original values

[lament stirrup]

The original values were built on a predatory lending MLM.

[candid elm]

I see

[graceful swan]

Then his lying is working on you

[candid elm]

Nvm then

[upbeat glacier]

Idk I'm bad at reading him

[candid elm]

It's not that he doesn't have good points, it's that they're misguided

[upbeat glacier]

He comes off as bad and good

[graceful swan]

He literally took advantage of a depressed Cephalon

[lament stirrup]

I mean hey, you're not dogmatically insisting he's a better person than the Tenno so you're already smarter than 90% of players who think Parvos Granum is a good guy.

[limber pulsar]

his philosophy is pretty much just “pull yourself up by the bootstraps and maybe i wont trap you in lifetime debt”

[normal mountain]

Just a couple decades of debt

[candid elm]

I mean...it's better then the current corpus, lesser of two evils right?

[limber pulsar]

not really

[lament stirrup]

Its really not hard to be better than the current corpus

Alad V makes his employees into bombs and he's still somehow the most intelligent person on the board.

[graceful swan]

Parvos isn’t any better than current Corpus

[candid elm]

Wonder how parvos would handle the solaris if he somehow got control of the corpus

[upbeat glacier]

Never said that we are probably the best at least we give people freedom

[graceful swan]

He was kicked off the Board

[normal mountain]

Current Corpus is like the cast of a island survival reality show
Backstabbing and taking advantage of each other left and right

[limber pulsar]

by putting them in even more debt probably

[upbeat glacier]

I love and hate complex villains

[lament stirrup]

The thing about Parvos is that he doesn't reward hard work, he rewards successful work.

[upbeat glacier]

Also tenno factions are also not great

The new Lokia are

Questionable

[lament stirrup]

The New Loka aren't Tenno

They're just a faction allied to the Tenno.

[candid elm]

Nah space nazi

That's the new loka to me

[limber pulsar]

you know its bad when your main weapon effect is called “Purity”

[lament stirrup]

They drop the genetic purity angle post silver grove.
Although, they're still annoying about spiritual purity.

[upbeat glacier]

I am not gonna like

The only reason I like steel meridian is because their leader is kinda hot

Lie*

[graceful swan]

Based

[candid elm]

Nothing came from it though

[north ferry]

Current Corpus is a direct result of him and it's still here.

[limber pulsar]

they say theyll change to get better after silver grove, but they havent really gotten any new content since then so theyre still in that same limbo

[candid elm]

Also, why haven't we gotten quests for the other factions? I wanna learn more about what the deal with the Arbiters of hexis is, or smth with steel

[upbeat glacier]

So I'm kinda confused how the grineer being pro queen works when it feels like a lot of grineer leave the grineer like even super loyal ones like vor

[lament stirrup]

The Steel Meridian got a lore drop with the Rathuum update and the Hexis have the Arbitrations. I think DE decided thst wad enough?

[limber pulsar]

arbiters of hexis are just tenno fanboys tring to uncover their mysteries, so they were kinda made redundant when second dream just told us the truth of the tenno

[north ferry]

Yeah, like so many other parts of warframe, Syndicate get less attention once the game moves past them.

[candid elm]

So some grineer are born without the gene that makes them loyal to the queens, so they run away

[upbeat glacier]

Cephelon suda after you save her and do her quest is funny when you have low -5 with her lol

Suda: you saved me... But your still a perfect specimen of wasted life

[lament stirrup]

Vor actually is still loyal to the Grineer post corruptipn according to the Codex.

[upbeat glacier]

Also waisted opportunity for kahl and Clem to be friends

[north ferry]

The factions aren't monoliths, they can have infighting and individually while still being part of the whole greater group, or loyal to the leaders.

[candid elm]

Oh clem talks about his dates with khal, he's just shy about it

[candid elm]

Probably, but could maybe change them up? Make them into some kinda post orokin tenno training faction?

[upbeat glacier]

I'm saying it be fun if kahl if you don't use the drifter hideout is with Clem in his fort

[north ferry]

I mean, the Tenno are still far beyond the normal people of Origin, and the fact they're operators, which still might not exactly be common knowledge just means there's more to learn.

[upbeat glacier]

https://youtu.be/6pWP1yETu9w?si=_7nY1wziUVHmPdfl

I love him

[sharp acorn]

It would be funny to see someone looking at our kid Tenno outside of the warframe and be like "how in lua is this child taking out these armies of grineer foot soldiers by themselves."

[sly pagoda]

Operator or Drifter could walk by you and if in normal clothes probably not even stand out.

[sharp acorn]

Yeah but as it stands the most "normal" clothes we have are from 1999 and we live thousands of years in the future

Also the fact that our Tenno and Drifter refuse to show any kind of skin besides their head, like they don't even let us see their hands

I understand not wanting to have any kind of revealing clothing even for the drifter so the game can be marketed for all ages but sometimes I just want to see their hands at least because I feel like they are hiding something under their clothes

[north ferry]

Pretty sure you see Drifter's hands.

[sharp acorn]

Nope

[north ferry]

It's probably more a simplicity and stylistic choice.

[sharp acorn]

They always wear gloves

I know but what if they have some kind of cool void marks on their bodies like what you can do with your Tenno's face

That could be a really cool customization feature

[silk atlas]

<@&778745217037238293>

[dull laurel]

You know what, I'm going to make a wild claim, the drifter and operator's mom is the mother from Deimos, why? She narrates duviri to our drifter that's the only reason I see why she could be our actual mother, and because being related to the entrati would be cool.
Also ignore the fact that the reason for her narrating duviri might be because she is our teacher or something

[north ferry]

Uhhh

[quartz sky]

That would mean she was on the spaceship and tried to kill them, but that's not the case

[north ferry]

There's lots of reasons why not but, I think they know that.

So, during New War, where theoretically could the Rail hide, would the Dojos still be hidden since they need keys and such to access.

[lean garden]

And ignore that you watched your parents die

[proper barn]

She is the narrator cuz she was the one that wrote the book. also we know who our parents are.

[dull laurel]

But it would be cool

[proper barn]

Also she is a orokin and orokin can't be with people not of the same class seemingly.

[north ferry]

Again, when you step out of the realm of lore you can kinda just go wild with what you like.

[proper barn]

Also she only had Kids with father.

also you get a parents photo

from the zariman.

[dull laurel]

Yeah

[humble sierra]

And it would mean Albrecht is your grandpa

[proper barn]

for anyone that doesn't know

Grandama is fathers Mom.

[dull laurel]

The biggest problem with that would be that getting with daughter would be a big No-no

[north ferry]

O.o

Did Kira have a partner that went Angel before she did? For some reason I have vague idea of that. Or at least mention of other Holdfasts before her?

[restive river]

The biggest problem is it doesn’t make sense

We have a photo of our parents and the duviri book was given to all the children

Like it’d be a cool headcanon maybe but in terms of actual canon it’s a claim with no evidence behind it other than “it’s neat”

[proper barn]

yeah

[normal mountain]

I think I remember reading on the wiki that she had a husband who died
But I could be mixing that with Mathila's page

[scarlet locust]

I keep forgetting lore how bad of a person is entrati really it's easy to forget when you did quests ages ago

[sly ibex]

At first he didn't seem so bad, but as of the last several updates... I want to erase him lol

[woven coyote]

"genius" scientist trying to undo his mistakes no matter the cost or colateral damage

genius is in quotes because he decided throwing animals into the void was a great idea

and he arrived at such a decision while under the influence of drugs

[scarlet locust]

What kinda drugs do you remember?

[woven coyote]

fictional stuff not irl drugs

[scarlet locust]

I mean ideally animals are better than humans to test from a scientific standpoint? Less sentimental loss

[woven coyote]

that wasnt the basis

the basis was throw animals into void to make void dumb like animal

then he went to throw unique animals because thats better bait

[scarlet locust]

Given the circumstances that actually sounds like a good idea to me since it copied his mind but maybe because it was his mind he was damned from the start

[woven coyote]

he literally decided to end an endangered species based on a drug trip

[scarlet locust]

Kinda screwed

[woven coyote]

the why he is trying so hard may be noble

but the how has a certain precedent for sacrificing too much and still failing

[scarlet locust]

Now I want to know what made seriglass so special as to be the conduit to make a portal to the wrong side of the universe

I get it better now that you explained it

[woven coyote]

pretty sure seriglass wasnt the portal but the diving bell

[proper barn]

He was throwing like so many into the void. Also seemingly Wally did what he did to the ones that suviried to all the other ones where he like makes them Sentient and then kills them.

The cavia only survived cuz of Fib

Even If that decision killed tagfers wife by accident.

[feral cape]

Okay but did you consider that he was right

[feral cape]

He laid it out pretty well he does suck but he's honest about how much he sucks

The apparatus of logic would never yield an answer. Only resolute action remained. If I must be a demon, let me be an honest one. Let me prove my nature by what I do next.

Purpose. Let me leave such blazing footprints behind me as no unclean thing would dare to walk in.

I will repair what I have broken, no more and no less. The scales must balance. And in such a monstrous penitence as this, I shall take no heed of the dust that may fall upon them on either side, the dust of petty lives.

The builders of old tempered their mortar with blood, to appease the most ancient of land-spirits. We should have been so wise. Yet it is not too late to learn.

The sands fall. The circuit completes. I return to the place of the beginning.

Let witless hordes bleat their disdain for every fervent plan;
The deal is done, the die is cast. I end as I began.

God I love how albretch writes he's soooooo cool

[jolly briar]

so im looking at the wiki's page on void tongue, specifically VOULL NE XATA VOK, MARA LOHK from wally

The ne part keeps catching my eyes, i cant help but suspect that it is a negating word?

mara is internally operator, so void demon for mara lohk?

so it comes together at the moment, assuming ne is negating, as

voull NO TRUTH vok, CHILD (of) VOID

just wanted to see if that thought kinda makes sense

[silk atlas]

No way of knowing until DE says so. Your guess is as good as any

[jolly briar]

fair, wasnt sure if someone had spent a lot of time looking at it so just wanted to see

[strange plinth]

other big 'translation' i've seen is something like
"do you know the truth, child of the void?"
given Oull is infinite possibilities, Voull could be indicating a question
beyond that, i'm not sure how they got to that
search the phrase in the discord, you'll find a few discussions about it

[eternal ether]

A thought i've always had regarding the grineer asteroid ships, and Cetus is, If Cetus really is as high priority as the grineer claims it is, why haven't they just physically dropped a ship from orbit onto cetus? like the tower can only reduce their machinery to "useless slag" but thousands of tonnes of "useless slag" raining down from the sky would probably do a lotta damage.

[woven coyote]

Probably the effect of trading with the corpus

[old dome]

...you want them to ruin the planet theyre trying to capture?? whats the point of capturing it then, if the planets gets all kinds of messed up bc they decided to drop nuclear bombs on it???

grineer are stupid but not THAT stupid as to waste the resources on the planet.

[dire mountain]

She's not.

She IS however our third adoptive mother (margulis, lotus, gomaitru)

[tall echo]

That is not what arctica suggested

[north ferry]

I mean, how effective is that really? It's not difficult to think anything force large enough is probably overly destructive to the surroundings or whatever they don't want destroyed.

[old kettle]

Finally doing Jade Shadows. It's great so far.

[digital grail]

||Stalker dad lore||

[old kettle]

Absolute CINEMA! XD

Canonically it's Orion. :p one of several unique stars in the Origin system.

[graceful swan]

Both names are canon

[upbeat glacier]

Ok I'm glad stalker went a different route because the warning before I was worried we would find out he was angsty with mom issues

Instead we get emotional damage

[digital grail]

No instead he's trying not to give his kid daddy issues

[old dome]

& good on him for that!!

even we still get him as an npc that hunts tenno...

[digital grail]

Well he needs to make money somehow

[hybrid citrus]

Can someone tell me some xaku lore

[tall echo]

They're made of three frames that were lost to the void

[hybrid citrus]

Cool

Aren't warframes Dax

[tall echo]

Some were

[hybrid citrus]

What frames were lost into the void

[tall echo]

They're lost

[hybrid citrus]

Ohhh

So no one knows

[tall echo]

Well a surviving old orokin might but uh... we kill the last one that could know

[grand hazel]

And the other with any idea did a back to the future

[tall echo]

The entrati are fighting to keep what they have left of their memories, nihil would never tell us anything, albrecht might know

[hybrid citrus]

Who was the last orokin that knew what frames

[tall echo]

Ballas, the guy in charge of making frames

[hybrid citrus]

Ok that was also my guess

I hope Albrecht knows

[tall echo]

They were lost in void expeditions, which is albrecht's field

[hybrid citrus]

Maybe that will be the next few frames

[grand hazel]

Imagine those were what Albrecht used to create the protoframes. Sort of reverse engineer em leading to the techrot etc. Pure speculation but still

[hybrid citrus]

good theory

[chilly iron]

Albrecht created the Hex protoframes with helminth strains of already existing warframes. He knew which frame each was getting.

[dire mountain]

Are you trying to speculate about albrecht creating the techrot

[grand hazel]

I mean in the quest its mentioned he did create it. But whetevr thats true or wally messing around I have no idea

[dire mountain]

You're not supposed to trust scaldra

They are not a very good source of truthful information

He didn't create it though

[graceful swan]

1999 is just the Plague Year

[chilly iron]

Albrecht showed up in 1999 claiming to be a doctor who could cure it, I'm pretty sure it was already there.

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[sharp acorn]

Albrecht brought the helminth strain of the infestation which is a much much more advanced version of the techrot

[digital grail]

So he could make protos

[sharp acorn]

If he wanted to create a plague to let lose in 1999 he could have let the helminth strain break out

[graceful swan]

He infected already infected people calling it a cure

[sharp acorn]

I know I'm just saying that if Albrecht were the one to make the Techrot it would be way more advanced then the one we're dealing with

[graceful swan]

True

[tall echo]

No, he actually did cure people, the helminthing was another thing he offered for volunteers

[graceful swan]

You sound like an Albrecht propagandist lol

[quartz sky]

He didn't provide all of the information for proper consent for a lot of his experiments. His ethics are questionable at best, even with good long term intentions. That's the whole thing with the orokin

[feral cape]

Well with other orokin there arnt good long term intentions

The intention is what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine

[stray herald]

so how much does albrecht actually care about his loved ones

cuz he has been putting science and combating the indifference first

his orokin nature of the lack of empathy seems to be what is at the forefront, plus the added theatricals

[glacial bough]

Everything he's doing is because he cares too much about his people

[feral cape]

The apparatus of logic would never yield an answer. Only resolute action remained. If I must be a demon, let me be an honest one. Let me prove my nature by what I do next.

Purpose. Let me leave such blazing footprints behind me as no unclean thing would dare to walk in.

I will repair what I have broken, no more and no less. The scales must balance. And in such a monstrous penitence as this, I shall take no heed of the dust that may fall upon them on either side, the dust of petty lives.

The builders of old tempered their mortar with blood, to appease the most ancient of land-spirits. We should have been so wise. Yet it is not too late to learn.

The sands fall. The circuit completes. I return to the place of the beginning.

Let witless hordes bleat their disdain for every fervent plan;
The deal is done, the die is cast. I end as I began.
Take of this what you will

[glacial bough]

Albrecht is willing to take the brunt of being the bad guy to ensure everything else can survive. He's very likely not going to make it to the end of the arc.

[graceful swan]

“If I must be a demon let me be an honest one let me prove my nature by what I do next”

[stray herald]

so he cut all ties with humanity in order to focus on his work to defeat the indifference, no matter how atrocious they are

i feel like this is a farewell to his life as he knew it, a requiem for albrecht

:)

[lean garden]

*cue bad guy by billie eillish

[chilly iron]

He's making himself a nuisance, is what he's doing. I have a feeling that for all this posturing, he's not going to be able to do it himself. And then it will fall to us to do it in the hardest way possible because he had to do it HIS melodramatic way

[stray herald]

i think he realised at some point, due to his hardening of his heart, that someone else must be the one to combat wally. he is not pure, but the drifter is

[glacial bough]

Albrecht always knew it wouldn't be him, or just him by himself

There's the point of the Kalymos Sequence

[chilly iron]

It killed me at the end that the whole thing, everything we did and the connections we made... we "stopped" Albrecht...
And just did exactly what he wanted the whole time

Freaking Xanatos Gambited

[silk atlas]

Albrecht learned from the best of the male manipulators (the Orokin)

[stray herald]

where was the purpose of the sequence mentioned

was it in cavia?

[chilly iron]

I don't think anywhere straight out says "this is what the Kalymos Sequence is for"
But basically the end end purpose was to get an operator for the Vessel.
And also save Albrechts old arse from The Man in the Wall in 1999

Vessels? Is there more than one?

[graceful swan]

Yes

All 6 Hex correlate to a Vessel and you fight a Vessel with a Vessel in Whispers

[quartz sky]

By getting rid of all of his body mods, in a way he became MORE human

[stray herald]

i mean the essence of humanity, like empathy, morals and the like

like he abandoned his loved ones

[normal mountain]

Wait, if the Vessels correlate to each of the Hex, then who did Wally possess in Whispers?

[stray herald]

and used the cavia as experiments and discarded them

and look at how depressed they are

animal cruelty

[stray herald]

never specified

[normal mountain]

Alright
Any theories?

[stray herald]

only candidates are quincy and amir

[chilly iron]

There's lots of them in development still, since Albrecht wanted to make an army. I thought Wally was just using an empty one itself

[normal mountain]

Really?
I suspected Eleanor

[brittle siren]

If he don't Wally will use them as tool to torture him and his family

[stray herald]

there are women vessels

[normal mountain]

Right

[normal mountain]

That might make more sense, actually

[stray herald]

but love became the weapon against wally, rendering his initial attempts moot

[brittle siren]

Love from him won't be enough

[stray herald]

but isnt it better to impart that knowledge to his families

[brittle siren]

He literally need "love" from all the Hex towards the Drifter (more like trust)

[stray herald]

the operator used love against the vessel

[brittle siren]

What they gonna do? Sleep more? They literally unable to do anything beside eating and talking

[brittle siren]

That not the point here. Albrecht do have "love" but it powerless against a Void Entity like Wally

[normal mountain]

Not technically
Father and I think Son were able to leave the Necralisk
I remember we had to find Father outside during Heart of Deimos

[quartz sky]

I was highlighting the juxtaposition of his physical appearance and wack behavior

[brittle siren]

They can "leave" but not entirely capable to do much beside simple crafting

[stray herald]

thats bc al stole wally's finger, wally is rightfully pissed

[brittle siren]

Mother and Grandmother can too lmao

[quartz sky]

They can leave, the kids are just crazy and can't be trusted

Remember the brother was missing for ages

They're grounded lol

Father got in trouble too I think

[normal mountain]

Honestly, none of them can really be trusted

[brittle siren]

Beside daughter

[quartz sky]

She commits sins against science lol

[brittle siren]

What sins

[normal mountain]

That's not saying much for an Orokin lol

[quartz sky]

I'd have to go through the page, but she's obsessed with cutting into fish and living organisms

[brittle siren]

That still not the point. You said he shouldn't left all of them, while Wally actively using them against Al, clearly it doesn't work with Al "love", it has to be someone else that can toe to toe with Wally. And that when Drifter join in

[brittle siren]

So the Cetus ppl and irl scientists doesn't do that already lmao

She not even doing mass Genocide or anything

[normal mountain]

I think Albrecht is too full of regret and other negative emotions for his love to do much against Wally
Aside from mild burning

[brittle siren]

Isn't he said he grow new skin, so he doesn't really have any burned mark anymore though

[quartz sky]

Mass fishicide

[normal mountain]

Burning Wally, not himself

[brittle siren]

Human irl do that all the time, and most Orokin do it on human, fish is the least thing that considered "sins"

[normal mountain]

In the Hex quest, Wally reacted with pain to Albrecht's love for Loid
But it didn't do much to him

[quartz sky]

With licenses and seasons though

[brittle siren]

Beside fish literally birth a LOT, like she couldn't dissect all 100 fish at once lmao

[normal mountain]

Aside from annoy him

[quartz sky]

But rare protected species?

Again, I don't know why she's grounded, I can't access the wiki rn

[brittle siren]

Who care about that when human is in decline already

[stray herald]

thats bc al has no room for love. after all he is acting on fear. both wally and al affected each other in al's trespassing into the void and accidentally severing wally's finger, trapping him in the strands of khra.
his love will never be enough bc he has wronged wally, but if al told others about what this entity is, through community effort, wally can be dispelled or some sort of plan to make wally satisfied can be made.
instead, al didnt look back far enough to know who and what wally is and the forces he has tampered with. With love being the weapon against wally, his domestic cruelty to everyone he has ever cared for is for nothing and has done more damage than the good he is trying to do

[brittle siren]

Like literally Cetus is the only place on earth that could be considered human city (for now until DE make more)

[quartz sky]

Ecosystem stuff, which humanity is a part of

Also they need the fish to live

Hence all the gathering quests

[brittle siren]

Did you even count how many planet on the solar system

[stray herald]

typical orokin behavior

[brittle siren]

Imagine the amount of irl fishes that ever exist in our irl world, multiply into all other habitable planet

Yeah no the fish is not the problem here

[quartz sky]

You know I said multiple times I can't get to the wiki rn because I'm at work. Rather than get heated about fish you could just play in the imagination space with me or go to the site and find out why she's grounded. All of this is conjecture. And it's fish in a videogame.

[brittle siren]

3 Orokin skinned the Ostron and not having any kind of trial beside being forever swapped body accidentally. Sure some INFESTED fishes experiments is somehow more extreme than those 3 Orokin did

Also Isnt the Mother grounded them because she want to protect them?

[glacial bough]

Not particularly. More people knowing about Wally isn't a better defense, more people creates more points of failure for Wally to use. Like, the rest of the Entrati would not have helped given how much of a dysfunctional mess they are

[brittle siren]

She literally don't want her children to become fully infested lmao

[quartz sky]

Thanks for pulling for me, I knew I remembered there was dialogue

[chilly iron]

She and Brother were probably fighting loudly for the umpteenth millionth time and Mother got sick of it and they were grounded.
Source: have a sibling and a parent

[brittle siren]

Grounded because of experiments on fishes
Sureeeeeeee

[quartz sky]

I understood it that her scientific urges made the mom worried she'd start doing them on things more than fishes

Like people, like the other orokin

[stray herald]

maybe a farewell letter and a failsafe plan would be appropriate if al is still to work alone. only if the plan stipulated his definite absence

[quartz sky]

It's not the fact that it's experiments on fish, it's how and why she was doing them. At least that's my interpretation

[brittle siren]

That just reach lmao

You making thing up at this point

[quartz sky]

Listen, if your kid was obsessed with cutting and dissecting animals wouldn't you be concerned?

Especially with the orokin history

[chilly iron]

She really does have trouble seeing others as people

[brittle siren]

He not working alone, he literally make the Sequence that have Cavia and Loid and us to join. He planned all ahead

[normal mountain]

Just looked on the wiki, couldn't find anything about Daughter being grounded

[quartz sky]

"grounded" as in we don't see her outside of the necralisk like the others

[normal mountain]

If anything, I'd suspect Mother found out about Kahl

[quartz sky]

Lol

[chilly iron]

XD oh she did, it's on the radio

[quartz sky]

Kahl tried to show up at the necralisk lmao

[chilly iron]

Kahl tried to set up camp out there and she got mad

[brittle siren]

Ballas literally make human into unemotional puppet and never been questioned. You think, a girl that only dissect fish, which let me remind you, both the vendor on earth and venus also do that, is worse than Ballas doing?

[quartz sky]

Wasn't ballas taken down and is seen generally unfavorably

[brittle siren]

Who taking him down? His mom?

[quartz sky]

Us?

[brittle siren]

And is "us" his parents

Or the law

Oh wait, he the law

[quartz sky]

And the law has never done anything wrong ever in history lmao

[brittle siren]

So does the Daughter

In term of both the Orokin law and irl law, she just a scientist experiments on FISHES that has been INFESTED by a hive mucking mind

She
Do
Nothing
Wrong

Beside slight racist

[quartz sky]

In a culture that has a history of unethical experimentation on living organisms...

Slippery slope, I think mother agrees hence the "mad urges" line

That's my opinion dude

[brittle siren]

Again, fish, especially INFESTED FISHES, is the least you need to concern

[normal mountain]

Actually, Daughter did attack Father with a claw weapon
Maybe that's why she's grounded

[brittle siren]

But you make it sound like it a fact

[normal mountain]

Took his arm off

[quartz sky]

That'll do it lol

[brittle siren]

He like it though and the Mother slash him a lot

I mean he like it because he proud of her not he has a kink

[quartz sky]

Sorry if I have that impression. I did pull some info to support my interpretation but again, it's an interpretation

[brittle siren]

And the Mother has done worse to him

[quartz sky]

But I think it comes down to our own personal value of fish lmao

[brittle siren]

Then stop saying it like it's a literal fact

[quartz sky]

I'll do my best to express it differently in the future

[brittle siren]

At this point even your theories is not even right. Her brother and her father done worse and yet still free

[quartz sky]

They're also not though?

[normal mountain]

More like they just don't care

[brittle siren]

You literally said only the Daughter inside but not the other 2

[quartz sky]

Where?

[brittle siren]

.

[quartz sky]

Referencing the mother and grandmother, who we do see outside

Should have clarified but we were talking about the mother and grandmother during that

[brittle siren]

And father also outside in the quest

[quartz sky]

Once

[brittle siren]

Once doesn't mean he CANT do it more than that

[chilly iron]

And brother, once, so Daughter really is the only one we haven't seen outside

[quartz sky]

^

[brittle siren]

Also "haven't seen" is not really valid point

Deimos was left there for hundreds of years

[normal mountain]

Just means she hasn't gone outside
Not that she can't

[quartz sky]

Again, I was bringing it up repeatedly saying I can't access the wiki or side to see if she has

And repeatedly saying it's a moot point

If she has

[brittle siren]

Again, Mother grounded them because she don't want the Grey Strain to infected them further more

[quartz sky]

That's your interpretation of her line, I have mine

[graceful swan]

All of the Entrati living on Deimos can go outside there its not limited to 1 or 2 of them

[brittle siren]

???????????

[quartz sky]

It's dialogue dude

[brittle siren]

I can't argued with this anymore

[quartz sky]

Lmao thank you

[normal mountain]

Daughter mentions at one point going out to fish whenever she can't stand her family

[graceful swan]

All of them can go outside on Deimos

[normal mountain]

I can go back and find where that line occurs, if you want

[brittle siren]

At this point you keep making assumptions and using "interpretation" as excuse

When the meaning is literally there in the dialogue

It not that deep

Your value of "fish" means NOTHING in the mind of Orokin

[normal mountain]

Think it's in Heart of Deimos
During the fishing portion

[brittle siren]

Even normal human they are meaningless life

[quartz sky]

Whatever dude, that's what I've been saying.

You're the one negating everything I'm saying and getting heated. I come here for fun back and forths and sharing ideas and sharing lore pages from the game

[brittle siren]

we eating them everyday for f sake

[graceful swan]

Just go find it on Orokin Archives if you can't get on wiki lol

[quartz sky]

I can't go to the site because I'm at work

Like I've been saying

[brittle siren]

Yet you have time to chat

[strange plinth]

"getting heated" is an appropriate response to restating the same thing over and over and not accepting any other answer

[graceful swan]

How can you talk here but not get on wiki

[quartz sky]

Because of how my works wifi works

Also lunch break

[graceful swan]

Oh so it bans all Wiki stuff but allows discord?

[normal mountain]

And we have an explanation

[quartz sky]

It bans browser pages

[normal mountain]

Let's leave it at that

[quartz sky]

Thanks

[brittle siren]

I don't actually know if you are being sarcasm or not

Just curious not actually wanting to have any further heated conversation

[strange plinth]

no sarcasm
i was just half-watching this unfold, figured i'd throw something in

regardless of if the 'getting heated' bit was true, usually that happens when its just the same points without change

[brittle siren]

Btw just searching back the dialogue

1. Daughter is trying to help slow down the infestation process
2. It's the Son who have strict "grounded"

[normal mountain]

Lol
We were looking at the wrong kid

[quartz sky]

Thank you for pulling the dialogue 🙏🏼

I had it wrong, I apologize

[graceful swan]

Charge your phone

[gloomy anchor]

What's the reason for little ducks Warframe hate?

[graceful swan]

She's a Quill rep so she wants the real you before she agrees to do anything for you

[woven coyote]

She's working as a quills liaison iirc
And they require the whole tenno confirmation

At least i always chalked it up to that

[graceful swan]

Her job is making amps it's the same reason Onkko doesn't let the frame through the door in Cetus

[gloomy anchor]

Ahh I have neglected cetus and my amp building so i forgot that

Aren't all the warframes controlled by tenno now though

Why do they need confirmation

[chilly iron]

It's kind of a trust thing as well I would bet. Doing business with a faceless puppet as opposed to the real person

[lean garden]

I'd say its the difference between a goober who knows what he really is (and thus has the literal power needed to overcome sentient smart shielding) and a goober who's special skill is thumping rocks

and maybe the trust thing

[chilly iron]

And who knows, maybe an infested frame makes its way around again, you can't be too careful.

[gloomy anchor]

That's fair. It's stuff I did the first bits of when I started and totally neglected so my memory is sketchy. I remember more of the vox stuff because of video lore I've watched and the nef anyo quest line was fun

My memory of cetus and those quests is really bad

I remember something about onnkos wife

Part of me wants to roll a new account just to get refreshed

Because I know I could go back to some of those beginning quests

The other part of me is so invested in my main

[graceful swan]

I think you can actually replay the early quests on Cetus

[gloomy anchor]

Ok so I did just end up making a second account to see the new player experience now, and one thing I noticed- Vor said you killed his sons, was that something that the tenno did before waking or is he referring to the clones as his children

[lament stirrup]

Its the clones.

The Grineer seem to consider each other family. Which would be touching if it weren't visibly a deliberate indoctrination tactic by the Queens to get them to dehumanize the enemy.

[chilly iron]

Well, I mean if you're all clones then technically you are family XD

They all come from the same base diseased slurry, let them have their bonds. It's the Queen Fanatacism that's the dangerous part.

[gloomy anchor]

I figured because khal refers to his test tube mates as his brothers

I don't enjoy the khal gameplay but he is an inspiration as a character imo

[chilly iron]

He's so good
His gameplay is a neat departure from the normal warframe power fantasy, which I appreciate.
That said, I am grateful that I don't HAVE to do a lot of it like players used to. It was before my time, I'm actually very new ^^;

Just very very very invested

[gloomy anchor]

That's such a good point though about that the queens don't care about them but they see each other as brothers. So the grineer are actually a really sad story when you think of it. Created as cannon fodder by beings who won't let go of their continued existence, the grineer strain worsening with age and impurity

But there are good souls to be found among them

[chilly iron]

The Steel Meridian wishes they had such good PR XD
I do feel bad about killing them... sometimes...
But Khal understands

[gloomy anchor]

NGL going back through this old stuff makes me really nostalgic for when I started

Everything has become about meta builds and just grinding farm

Experiencing the second dream and the war within for the first time was so good

[chilly iron]

I'm trying to pump the brakes on my rush to get everything, because I see the end and I'm gonna be sad about it ^^
But 1999 really captured that spark, so I trust we can always look forward to the next chapter

[gloomy anchor]

After a certain point you aren't doing story anymore and it's just about finding missions with things you need

Stuff like 1999 was a breath of fresh air tbh it threw me right back in

I even went back and started clearing out stuff I skipped

[gloomy anchor]

Trying to conceptualize that as I'm playing this my character rn doesn't even know he's not the machine suit he's controlling

Seems so weird now

[woven coyote]

Warframe took the "your brain is just piloting a meat and bone mecha" meme too far

[gloomy anchor]

https://youtu.be/T6JFTmQCFHg?si=l4gOadtwTz3JwRv4 relevant

[north ferry]

You are the warframe

Not just piloting

[woven coyote]

How sweet to be so innocent

[strange plinth]

meh, it isn't super wrong
the whole 'adopting stances and habits' thing that drifter mentions in KIM messages
like yeah we're still piloting the body, but its still leaving a little imprint on what we're doing with it

[gloomy anchor]

That's not how that works

You're literally using transference unaware of your own body

Until you wake from the second dream

[woven coyote]

It isnt uncommon in sci fi to have a type of neural interface leave remnants of it behind after you disconect, based on things like hardware or conection

[gloomy anchor]

You're even confused when natah speaks to you as you wake

[north ferry]

Oh I know

[gloomy anchor]

It's just weird to think about the state they're in, where they don't get that

Before you wake

You're pretty much convinced that's you

[strange plinth]

yeah
tbh its cool that we finally got an explanation for the animation sets
eh, not "finally"
wasn't a big thing

[north ferry]

As they said about the KIM and all the other things. It's not so difficult to understand how it's like that

Sure swapping warframes is a little weird but in the same way we accept it as just 'part of the game' if you're kinda unaware to even think about a seperate person.

[gloomy anchor]

Yeah it's different on replay when you KNOW, compared to the first time.

Especially if you aren't aware of operators, like I was the first time because they were so new

[north ferry]

My point is there is not real distinction in the 'self', specially after uhhh.... whatever the kuva quest is.

[gloomy anchor]

War within

It's your mind projected into the frames. It is you, but you don't know who you actually are till you wake from the dream

I find that fascinating

[woven coyote]

Yeah it pretty cool

[gloomy anchor]

I can't remember, have they said we feel pain while piloting the warframes with transference? Do they register pain?

[woven coyote]

Hmmmm i dont remember

[north ferry]

Pretty sure the frames stagger around and respond when in cutscenes as if they do to some degree.

[gloomy anchor]

Honestly as horrible as it sounds you think it'd be tactically better to be able to feel

For a sense of threat and self preservation

And also interaction with your environment without tactile feel would be weird

[strange plinth]

the mirage that lotus remembers during hidden messages was implied to be exhausted, i think?
though idk about pain

[woven coyote]

I'd say it's likely controlled

Maybe can be switched on and off or even as a "dial"

[gloomy anchor]

We hint at feeling echoes of the frames in KIM messages

[woven coyote]

Actually the dial makes even more sense when you think of the orokin

[gloomy anchor]

Not direct like memories but fragments and flashes

Echoes from the original frames, since ours are only copies

Umbra only frame we got the whole thing from

Because of his connection to ballas

[woven coyote]

Good old custom transference bolt

[gloomy anchor]

And even that was just bursts of his last days

[strange plinth]

umbra isn't the "original" either though tbf
not made from the mass-produced blueprints either though

[gloomy anchor]

No he was special replication. That's kind of story breaking a bit

Because canonically it wouldn't make sense for every tenno to have an umbra

That's where that line between 'we are the main character' and 'we exist among others' blends

Same with us all being the hero of the new war and such

Of course with eternalism everything is and isnt

Or there's a version of everything where we are all in our own story as the main character

So in my little piece Im the main character but you also are in yours and these don't conflict because of eternalism

[strange plinth]

yeah, that's pretty much my understanding
its definitely eternalism on a huge scale, unlike the other big example of operator/drifter

[blissful merlin]

Tenno!

You will hardly believe the scope of my achievements. Even I am a little giddy, I confess.

As a result of my little arrangement, the realms are not merely aligned. They have connected. And the walls between them have come tumbling down.

You may now, if you choose, socialise, sojourn, and sally forth with Tenno from other dimensions of existence!

Cross freely. Come together as never before.

What a magnificent bargain I, Baro Ki'Teer, have struck. I do hope that charming stranger passes my way again.

I fancy I can hear opportunity rap-tap-tapping at my door, even now!

—Baro Ki'Teer

[north ferry]

Oh... now I think about it. Our guns are possessed

[restive river]

Whuh

[north ferry]

Incarnons, souls of the Zariman damned stuffed into our guns.

[restive river]

What