lore-discussion

[steel creek]

i see so wait albrecht is on his way to fight wally in tau rn?

[restive river]

We literally rewrite history

[frosty meadow]

1. Both were trapped in a paradox (umbra trapped reliving bad memories, Arthur reliving the new years incident)
2. Both have actively tried to fight the alternate versions of the tenno (Umbra with operator, Arthur with Drifter)
3. The facial features. Both have white-out left eyes and Arthur's face has scars that are shaped exactly like the broken part of Umbra's mask, let alone in the same position.

[restive river]

I guess so yeah, it’s kinda vague but yes

[frosty meadow]

im not saying it is him, im just saying its a direct parallel that could be the result of a paradox of some sort

[steel creek]

the duviri paradox?

[humble sierra]

Umbra’s memory thing wasn’t a paradox, it was basically him watching a video on loop

[steel creek]

question is why the hell did the drifter kill himself a lot in duviri?

[humble sierra]

Thrax had free will, and grew bitter because Drifter aged and wanted to leave Duviri

[restive river]

1. Reliving memories isn’t a time paradox.
2. That’s just a parallel not evidence.
3. That’s such a stretch, the timeline doesn’t work for that at all.
   Arthur dies in 1999 without our help, he cannot and never was Umbra nor can he be, nobody from 1999 can survive to the Old War.

You’re looking for evidence that isn’t there.

[restive river]

It isn’t.

You literally said you have “definitive proof”
None of that is definitive or proof.

Sure there’s parallels
Thats it
Nothing more

[steel creek]

didnt it ever hit the drifter that he could have left duviri cuz he created the place?

[restive river]

They specifically were trapped in Duviri

Couldn’t leave anyway, no way out until Lotus and Teshin come around

[humble sierra]

He was in Duviri for so long, and all the looping made him lose his memories and that there was even anything that existed outside of Duviri

[steel creek]

oh yeah how did the drifter even find the lotus after the duviri paradox quest?

[humble sierra]

The Guiding Hand is all the Drifter found

[restive river]

They regrew her from her hand

[humble sierra]

Drifter created Duviri as a child, and Thrax was basically their imaginary best friend, but Drifter grew up while Thrax remained the same, so while Drifter wanted to leave, Thrax couldn’t let him go

[restive river]

mfw I make an imaginary friend from my funny book and an imaginary world but oops it isn’t imaginary anymore cause the void does its silly little thing

[steel creek]

who got it worse? the operator or the drifter?

[restive river]

I think it’s unfair to compare trauma

Trauma is trauma

[feral cape]

They also fundamentally can't be the first

[restive river]

One got a hell of their own design
The other got war
Both watched their parents and sibling(?) die

[feral cape]

Warframe uses a causality based omniscient perspective of time meaning the hex to an outside viewer come after warframes

[restive river]

The protos can not exist without the warframes being made by Ballas

No bootstrap paradoxes here either

[feral cape]

The only bootstrap we've got is duviri

[restive river]

Remind me :?

[feral cape]

Because the Drifter can only be free after the tenno help him but the tenno can only help him because drifter freed them

[restive river]

OH
ye

[feral cape]

Drifter saved us from our own history

[steel creek]

arent they the same?

[feral cape]

Ontologically no

[restive river]

Yesn’t

[humble sierra]

Yeah prior to any proper info I thought Cyte-09 was actually Quincy who festered for so long he became the fully Warframed Cyte-09, who Albrecht then looked at and based Quincy on that Warframe who was actually Quincy

But that’s not at all what happened, Cyte-09 is just a Warframe who had his history erased

[feral cape]

There 2 fundamentally separate existences

[steel creek]

yeah cuz my operator is a female and the drifter is a male

[feral cape]

After act 3 of tnw we merged in someway

Not fully but a little

[steel creek]

how is that even possible?

[restive river]

Gender is but a construct and transitioning is free in the origin system

[feral cape]

Cntrl alt delete the file

[restive river]

It’s not, Cyte is just a lost Warframe

[steel creek]

????????????

[feral cape]

Its not hard to just say the frame didn't exist when I control history

[humble sierra]

History as in “lore archives”, not actual time history

[feral cape]

We arnt voging anyone yet

I wouldn't be surprised if when unsealed wally has that kind of power

[humble sierra]

Voging?

[restive river]

Gender is a societal construct and the ability to change our gender is just a thing we can do, either due to it being a gameplay mechanic or because transitioning is simple for someone in our position

[feral cape]

The vault of glass it's a "weapon" in destiny anyone killed by it is literally erased from history

[steel creek]

"im the real villain all along" ahh message

[feral cape]

As in never existed

[restive river]

The Orokin didn’t like keeping history

[feral cape]

Can't even be a who is John because there never was a John

[restive river]

Can’t let the people know you’re not actually gods

[feral cape]

Ans gods never make mistakes kinda the whole reason there gods

[restive river]

False gods

[feral cape]

Except like mythologies where the gods act as the people do

[restive river]

Glad they’re dead

[feral cape]

Those gods suck usually

[restive river]

The best mythologies

[feral cape]

Like Greek and roman ones

Except my goat hades

He only cheated on his wife once

[restive river]

Yeah Zeus is a horrible person
But at least its comparatively realistic :p

[feral cape]

Which when comparing to other dietys makes him seem like a saint

Sometimes he kidnapped his wife other times she just got lost in the underworld

[humble sierra]

Disney making Zeus seem like a decent person had irreparable consequences

[feral cape]

Depends on the story really

[feral cape]

And they made my goat hades evil

[feral cape]

Also it's like the coolest thing ever and the way they describe it makes it just seem like they want to make the enemy seem even cooler

"The oracle sing to the stars and decide you are not real"

I remember someone tried to argue that jade light did that

[feral cape]

Me using the unmatched power of a 5th dimensional god to give myself the greatest rack mankind will ever see

I wish Android was here i want to revist something with him

[proper barn]

hmmmmm?

[mortal ermine]

Are the orb mothers considered spiders or crabs? Because they’re called raknoids and there are also the coolant raknoids which are referred to as spiders but the orb mothers look more like crabs imo

[graceful swan]

It’s a mini change on the word Arachnid

[mortal ermine]

Oh that’s so cool what

Ty :D

[near anvil]

I wonder if Teshin can leave duvri

[graceful swan]

It’s the only thing keeping him alive

[near anvil]

Rip

[digital grail]

Yeah well we can always visit him

[fleet quiver]

Hello, can someone please suggest youtube videos which explain the story lore of the game? The quests themselves were super confusing

[digital grail]

DE has some in #warframe-news-feed

I'd assume they are the best ones but I'm probably wrong

[graceful swan]

https://youtube.com/@orokinarchives?si=dBUODSQP29fg5PM_

https://www.orokinarchives.com/

[sly ibex]

What? I don't remember anything like that being said.

[graceful swan]

Minion he literally fell in dying rescued by luck if he could leave he would

[sly ibex]

He said himself he doesn't know if he was dead or alive when he fell in, but that's irrelevant to whether or not he can leave. There has been no indication that he can't.

[graceful swan]

There’s been no indication he can

If anyone could get him out he would be out by now

He got very hurt falling in too

[sly ibex]

"In all the ages of Thrax's reign, only two strangers have ever known to come to Duviri. One was the monk, Teshin, who fell from the sky into the lake on the island we now call Hermit's Landing. Seemingly lifeless, he was dragged ashore by Mathila who nursed his return to health. I have never known a constitution to match his; yet unlike us, he has... deteriorated... with the passing of time." - Acrithis

We have no reason to believe he can't leave, other than simply not having the means to on his own.

[graceful swan]

He definitely can’t leave on his own

He’d need Drifter to do it

[digital grail]

Drifter said teshin can't leave in a pom 2 dialogue I'm sure

[graceful swan]

But he can leave

[digital grail]

Can he?

[digital grail]

I meant teshin

[graceful swan]

Drifter said Teshin can’t leave?

[digital grail]

Yeah drifter said in a pom 2 chat that teshin can't leave duviri

I might be wrong as I can't actually check

[graceful swan]

Makes sense considering he doesn’t have portal power

Plus with his injuries walking is probably harder

[digital grail]

It's probably easier for him to stay in duviri

And safer

[graceful swan]

I never got the chance to see that conversation

[digital grail]

I might have had it I'd have to check though

[visual ermine]

That was the implication I got too about Teshin.

Also kind of a bleak confirmation about how Duviri isn’t a place that can actually change in that sequence of conversations, it seemed to me

[glossy mountain]

Finally just finished the Silver Grove quest, love Titana and Oberon

Also absolutely love the Oberon Fey skin but why in the world are his feet tiny 😂

[visual ermine]

He’s the goat

[old dome]

he got hurt before he fell in & the fall just made his injuries worse... poor guy.

also who's valeria?? does he ever talk abt her in duviri???

[graceful swan]

All he says is
“WHY? NO! NO! VALERIA!”

No info past that

[old dome]

:// man. i wanna know who she is...

[visual ermine]

It’s kind of funny that they include options to establish your drifter as much of a psychopath as you might possibly want in the messenger. At the end of the day you can still just grind out the affection.

[sly ibex]

I believe she was another Dax he was in love with. One of the ones we killed.

[restive river]

Wdym psychopath-

[tall echo]

Elaborate

[visual ermine]

You can choose to be a complete a-hole, poke at all of their deepest traumas, completely shut down every meaningful conversation

There’s dialogue like where Arthur asks you how you deal with all the death and you can be like, “it’s all just video games to me bro!”

Basically as soon as you get into the deeper conversations there’s always a “f you” option

[raw stone]

Goat boy.

Personally I like ahem shipping Quincy and my Drifter with Oberon as the chosen Metal Puppet of his affections. Symbolically ironic.

Back to the thing at hand... Teshin, Valeria, Drifter, Pom2, I notice I'm missing some stuff, did anyone perchance not fungle their Sibiling chat with Arthur?

What info came of a finished chat on that topic. I wanna know.

[glossy mountain]

@raw stone I do love that skin just wish his legs weren't pencil thin 🤣

[woven coyote]

Meanwhile 2nd ember deluxe with the knife legs

[glossy mountain]

Not seen that one will have to have a look 😂

Ah just seen 🤣

[lean willow]

Right, So a question, has anyone figured the meaning of Mara Lohk?

Seems like the meaning is not for a child and there's and Easter egg that does not seem to be a coincidence

[graceful swan]

Only theories so far with Child and Demon being the most common one

[lean willow]

I think their real intention goes to actualy the Demon theory

I'll explain why, One of Eleanor's voice lines when you shift INTO the Warframe and i quote; "Ah. Void demon take the wheel." And i highly doubt it is some sort of a coincidence

Strange but it brought me back straight into the Mara Lohk theory

[old dome]

just that the drifter hates wally for a reason & their sibling... died? i think...

[visual ermine]

There’s a lot of different versions of the drifter’s background depending on your choice

[graceful swan]

I don’t think I bothered with the sibling thing or said it jokingly and never brought it up again

[raw stone]

I was moreso interested in it

But I fumbled it trying to be mr tall dark and brooding like Arthur

[visual ermine]

If you say you have a sibling, implication is that they died during the event I think

[raw stone]

I should've stuck to being "She was a fairy 🎵🧚🎶 🎵"

Yeah. I got the implication of that from the following response tree after saying "I had a sibiling[...]" or something.

Chickened out

[visual ermine]

They don’t go into it in any detail if i recall. Think it’s safe to assume the whole adults vs kids fray was pretty grisly on both sides

[proper barn]

They say "she" for the sibling

It's very HMMMMMNGGGGG

[visual ermine]

These messenger flow charts are awful to read on mobile I give up for now

[humble pawn]

i didnt understand ANYTHING from this quest, can someone explain the story to me please? without spoilers to future quests

[tall echo]

90% of it is just tutorials for the new game modes, there's not much lore to understand

[proper barn]

You went to rhe Zariman. Your home. The holdfasts are old crew people that where remade by the Void when they "go crazy" they turn into void angels.

[humble pawn]

crazy

[proper barn]

You can learn more about them if you rank them up smile.

Also Molt augmented is there one of the best arcanes I the game.

[humble pawn]

i dont like how youre just thrown into the quest and supposed to defend or something without any explanation to whats going on

[proper barn]

Oh cavlero also has incarcnon weapons.

Also your defending the ship from Grinner/Coprus cuz like if they take it over it would he drastic.

[tall echo]

Explanation is in dialogue

[visual ermine]

Basically its been floating about the void after you were rescued , got stuck halfway now you’re trying to keep the void plugged up there

[humble pawn]

crazy

thanks yall

[humble pawn]

only if youre in sp right

[raw stone]

Technically no

[raw stone]

That's Steel Path, Duviri Circuit. And those are Incarnon Genesis.

Incarnon weapons operate under the same pretense but they're hard coded for it.

[proper barn]

No

That's for Duviri incarnons

These are the original ones the Zariman incarnonss.

[humble pawn]

ok ty

[proper barn]

Original doesn't mean worse btw

These are still some of the best weapons in the game.

[graceful swan]

Laetum my beloved

[raw stone]

I gotta get funky with the incarnons. Dmg was cool and all but status laetum

[proper barn]

Isn't that

What people normally use?

Also the felarx incarnon is good now btw

[raw stone]

Nah. First it was the raw dmg laetum, then crit.

Now I want to prime with Laetum

[proper barn]

I feel like people saw someone say the felarx incarnon was bad week 1 and then just never checked again

The incarnon form for jt is really good now.

[raw stone]

Mhmn. I gotta redo all my incarnon weapons tho. They don't feel competitive to the incarnon genesis weapons tbh

[feral cape]

Orokin era ship with Orokin era tech bad guys with the tech is bad news

[proper barn]

untrue.

they are still very competivte.

specificly the latuem Innodem and felarx.

[raw stone]

I mean my builds on my incarnons

[proper barn]

OH gotcha.

do you want a innodem build?

[cloud carbon]

Here's some deep thoughts with the deep for you. How old is Eleanor? By going off of the actress, Amelia Tyler's age, she's 43 years old (1981). So if we do 1999 - 1981, Eleanor is 18. However, if we're going off of that Eleanor is Amelia's age, then she would've been born in 1956. Which is more logical?

[proper barn]

don't the dossiers have age?

[silk atlas]

no

[humble pawn]

the 1999 portion where you play as a dude named arthur in the Whispers in the walls mission is so cool, if only they made a quest based on 1999 alone

[proper barn]

IF ONLY

I WONDER WHO WOULD DO THAT

[humble pawn]

if only

[cloud carbon]

Still, what do we think? How old would Eleanor be?

[restive river]

20+

[humble sierra]

The characters wouldn’t be born the same time as the actors. If an actor born in 1997 was in a movie released in 2020 but set in 1896, that wouldn’t mean the character is negative101. The character would likely be 23.

However this is voice acting in a sci-fantasy game, so if they wanted, a 40 year old woman could convincingly play a 14 year old boy.

The characters themselves don’t look or act much older than 30, max.

[knotty birch]

Why did Albrecht create the hex just to kill them off on new years eve?

[glossy gazelle]

If I recall right, and I can be wrong, it was intended to make a timeloop that would help hold back the man in the wall.
I'll double check that

[knotty birch]

So he killed them to get us to make a timeloop?

[glossy gazelle]

So checked the wiki, got this summary here from Loid:
Loid at one point suggested the idea of using the Grey Strain abundant all over Deimos, whose growth property are known to have reached monstrous dimensions. It was then that Albrecht had came up with the idea of developing The Vessels, combining the humanity of Arthur, the anatomical works of Ballas, and the monstrous growth of the Grey Strain; an equivalent to a Warframe on a titanic scale.

[knotty birch]

I know what the hex are yes

I just don't get why he'd go through the trouble of making protoframes just to kill them off insisting their existence brings in the void

[humble sierra]

Have you done the finale?

[knotty birch]

Yes

Did the first ending just get rewritten to not happen?

[humble sierra]

It’s implied he only killed the Hex so that way the chosen operator would fight to save them, and that would create enough “love” to fight back the Indifference

[glossy gazelle]

Well yes, that's where we had our Duviri interjection

[knotty birch]

So he did literally kill the hex just to get us to make a time loop

[glossy gazelle]

Don't you just love how time travel screwed up the reasoning behind everything?

[knotty birch]

It made sense before duviri

[glossy gazelle]

What did Duviri get you lost with?

[knotty birch]

Mostly just the fact it doesn't seem to follow the passage of time

[glossy gazelle]

Well that's because Duviri isn't a real physical place...it's a dream of sorts

[silk atlas]

Duviri Paradox just happens along side the "main" timeline all the way up to act 2 of TNW

[knotty birch]

Yes

[glossy gazelle]

It's made from the Void itself, taking on a life unto itself.

[silk atlas]

Wrong, it is, in fact, a place you can just go to.

Teshin did it accidentally and Albrecht (apparently) has a whole lab set up in there.

[glossy gazelle]

Not sure I'd classify it as a real place such as how Earth and Fortuna are real places.
Because it's just an emotional state story given form by the Void.

[normal mountain]

The Void is weird
Think it's best to just leave it at that
for the most part

[knotty birch]

The paradox is the fact that the drifter was able to influence things at different times due to the lack of normal passage of time

And influence ends up working both directions

[silk atlas]

It's real, just that it's inside of the Void.

It's exactly as real as Earth and Fortuna, that's the whole point of Conceptual Embodiment.

[knotty birch]

I found a comment on reddit that sums it up nicely

The Drifter escapes Duviri to help the Operator during New War. In return, the Operator sends warframes and weapons into the past so the Drifter can escape Duviri.

[glossy gazelle]

Unlike something like a planet though, it's maintained by the Void. It's a shadow of a story the Drifter knew as a child given form by the Void.
Unlike Earth and Fortuna for example, where you have dynamic characters, Duviri is a story...and then I remembered that there is lore indicating that Duviri does change over events...so yea ok I recant. You're right.

[humble sierra]

I think the Paradox of Duviri was that in order to help the Operator, Drifter needed the Operator’s help

[knotty birch]

Yes

[glossy gazelle]

Wasn't it Lotus's hand that made the difference?

[knotty birch]

Lotus' hand was from when it was cut off in TNW

[glossy gazelle]

However that was the catalyst that prompted the Drifter's journey out of apathy was it not?

[knotty birch]

I think so

[silk atlas]

Wish I remembered which stream this was from but the "Paradox" is nothing fancy

[knotty birch]

I don't understand how that's related to the twin paradox. Is it saying that the drifter is older because they didn't get void powers and subsequently stuck in a cryo pod?

Would they even have aged in divuri if it was looping?

[feral cape]

To make us love someone(s) to hold back wally

[feral cape]

No albretch can loop time whenever he wants he needed us to love the hex because love is the great indifferences weakness

[feral cape]

It hasn't

[glossy gazelle]

Isn't that love because the first one to encounter the indifference was malicious and cut his finger off? (Aka Entrati) Like I'd be annoyed off too if the first guy I meet in forever takes a meat cleaver and cuts my finger off.

[feral cape]

Don't stick your hands in peoples doorways

[glossy gazelle]

Maybe don't open doorways to other people's homes?

[feral cape]

He doesn't own the void hell the void didn't exist in any physical capacity before albretch entered it

There is literally nothing to call home

Also why love counters we don't know probably because the opposite of indifference is love

[glossy gazelle]

From a legal perspective the man in the wall does have some legit grievances.
Here he is minding his own businesses, vibing, then some arrogant guy barges in and when he tries to catch the intruder, he loses a finger for his troubles.

[feral cape]

He also steals all of the intruders memories copy's his appearance and taunts him with a childhood nickname

Also albretch gave the void physical form

[glossy gazelle]

When all you know is nothing, how can you learn to be something? You learn from what you experience.

[normal mountain]

He didn't steal Albrecht's memories
He borrowed, read, and returned them
Like a library book

[feral cape]

So wally wasn't minding his own business vibing because business didn't exist and neither did wally before albretch showed up

[humble sierra]

Albrecht likely even created the MITW because he was so scared of something terrifying in the Void, and the Void created something to be terrified of

[normal mountain]

Also, how the heck was he supposed to know that was wrong?
He didn't exist before then

[glossy gazelle]

Not to mention the Orokin went up and were like "Hey man we're gonna drive through your house to get somewhere else. Don't mind us."
Of course he's gonna mind, hence Zariman

[feral cape]

Right so he drives the adults specifically mad arms the children in return for something unknown and forces them to either die or kill there parents

If he was upset about people being there just blow up the ship problem solved

[glossy gazelle]

Adults, something he's already encountered. Arrogant, small minded, aggressive, violent. Amplified what they were.
Children, new odd. Gives them a defense but in the way an Orokin would because that's all Wally knows for now.

[normal mountain]

After the Orokin experimented on his severed digit
I'd be pissed too if someone dissected my missing body parts

[feral cape]

The only adult he's encountered was brilliant arrogant and terrified of him

[glossy gazelle]

Not to mention quantum phased it so it can be on board multiple ships all over the place...considering it still is part of the Void that may imply he still feels it.

[normal mountain]

And I think I'd want to inflict as much pain as I could

[feral cape]

Not aggressive and violent

Also drifter says wally did it because he was bored

[glossy gazelle]

Ok I'll drop the aggressive and violent, but still amping up what they already are would definitely result in very dangerous adults

[feral cape]

Also why does wally get to own the entire void

[normal mountain]

Why not?

[glossy gazelle]

Drifter isn't exactly a god to tell us what's going on with Wally.

[feral cape]

Its rather large

[glossy gazelle]

Far as we know Wally owns the Void cause there's no one else there. He's the first manifestation, thus he's got dibs

[normal mountain]

Mansions are rather large
Castles are rather large
They're still owned by individual people

[feral cape]

I think it's ridiculous to own an entire dimension

[feral cape]

And those are very small in comparison to an entire dimension that might be infinite spatially

[glossy gazelle]

And we have no indications of any further entities being created, aside from Wally.

This implies Wally is unique and singular. Bar minimum he owns the Void surrounding the Origin system.

[normal mountain]

For a presumably formless being, I don't think space is relevant here

[feral cape]

Also everything wally did in Duviri was to actually just harass the inhabitants

[feral cape]

He's formfull now that's kind of his issue

[lean garden]

I dont know if presence equates to owning

[glossy gazelle]

Idk, if you give kids a storybook land to play in as long as they want, reflecting their own personalities, yea you're gonna get Duviri. He didn't need to do anything, the Drifter's own fears trapped him there

[feral cape]

Which is why he replaced an entire school with himself?

[normal mountain]

That's how he manifests here, in the Origin System
Doesn't mean that's how he always is

[glossy gazelle]

In theory that may be because of the finger still floating around

[feral cape]

No he has form now because albretch gave it to him bird 3 outlines this issue well

[glossy gazelle]

Sometimes he manifests as our operator, sometimes as the full Wally figure

[feral cape]

Wally used to be nothing and when he's nothing there's nothing he can't be now he's something so he can't be anything

[glossy gazelle]

Elaborate please

[lean garden]

Theres some parallel we can draw to first nation people and if they believed they owned the land they lived on before certain folks came around

[normal mountain]

That was a Duviri fragment

I don't remember the exact story, but at one point he replaced the children in a school or classroom with void copies that were horribly rambunctious and giggled whenever the Void was mentioned

[glossy gazelle]

The Caves of Academe?

[feral cape]

And then, not long after the Rain of Chains, the first of the Hollow Children appeared.

They joined the others for class, sitting at the back, silent and attentive. Their eyes were a deep and lustrous black, their mouths fixed in a constant grin. None of the sages saw them enter or leave.

The Hollow Children did not speak, nor did they participate in class in any way, except to giggle unnervingly when the subject of the Void was mentioned.

When adults came to collect their children, they noticed an additional oddity. Among the Hollow Children were exact duplicates of themselves when they were younger. Each day there were more of them.

[normal mountain]

Think so

[feral cape]

He's actually just messing with the inhabitants because he's bored

[normal mountain]

Yeah, that's it

[feral cape]

We turned on our heel and made for the Palace, where I gave Dominus Thrax the best account I could of what I had seen. On hearing that a single monstrous finger had burst up through the green sward, Thrax took terrible fright.

Despite my entreaties, he sacrificed the entire island before any more of the entity could emerge.
Also he did this

[glossy gazelle]

As said before, Duviri is based on a story, but also influenced by the emotions and memories of the Drifter

Sounds like the Drifter's own fears manifested into Thrax

[lean garden]

but this clearly not part of the story

[feral cape]

That peace was shattered one morning as I drove my carriage there. I witnessed a vast form break up from the ground and clumsily probe the area around it.

I took the thing for a gigantic worm or slug, until one of my escorting Dax pointed out the colossal fingernail on its 'head'.
He mightve also done this

[normal mountain]

he also allegedly traumatized Sythel

[glossy gazelle]

Indeed, more so memory and influence from the drifter

[lean garden]

why is the assumption that this is a CE from the Drifter and not Wally's doing

[feral cape]

Right because the guys whos mo is being doppelganger isn't responsible for the doppelgangering

[lean garden]

how then will you explain the chain event

Void Storms were not unknown in Duviri, but the storm I shall speak of was unlike others. It hung in a red veil across the sky. There was a great sound like tearing metal, and all at once a pelting rain fell. Not water, but broken metal chains, in lengths and coils and great rattling whipstrands.

The falling chains shattered roofs and windows, slashed through screaming livestock, and maimed the fools who had not come in from the streets.

I found Garmi's log in the toppled ruin of the lighthouse. With admirable presence of mind, he describes a form steadily approaching out of the Void. A monstrous hand, possessed of only three fingers and a thumb.

[glossy gazelle]

At the moment we don't have anything to correlate to the events aside from the chains breaking from Rell.
Which either means the classroom and or finger may be from the Drifter's fears. Or they could alternatively be Wally trying to dissolve some of his safe harbor.

[feral cape]

Why would stuff thats wallys mo be drifter

Especially when we know wally is in Duviri as the vagabond

[lean garden]

which means that if we take the leaning from the chain event, it would be extremely safe to view all these anomalous events to be wally's doing

[normal mountain]

insert 'why not both' meme here

[lean garden]

Hell, we have the whole vagabond running about duviri

[glossy gazelle]

Because the classroom is something akin to a memory, so that one is leaning more towards the Drifter's history. But the finger from the ground is leaning more towards Wally's mo

[feral cape]

Doppelgangering is literally wallys primary thing

[lean garden]

Regardless we've established that Wally has performed disruptive acts onto Duviri

[glossy gazelle]

Yes, this is agreed upon

[feral cape]

Also like wally has failed to in any capacity communicate with anyone to resolve his issues

[glossy gazelle]

Wally has no reference to communicate his feels

His primary reference was an Orokin

[feral cape]

Albrecht knows how to communicate feelings

[lean garden]

Albeit in some fancy poetic speak

might be where wally learnt how to yap like that

[silk atlas]

Decided that the first thing he did when just trying to talk to random people in the system (Zariman) was to make children kill their parents. So that's nice of him.

[glossy gazelle]

Gave them a fighting chance as opposed to letting them get slaughtered by their own parents

[feral cape]

He leaves a note very accurately describing how he feels regarding wallys action his fault in them and how he feels about deeling them

[feral cape]

Why were the parents gonna kill the kids again

[normal mountain]

They went mad

[feral cape]

And why did they go mad

[normal mountain]

No real reason besides that

[lean garden]

Somethings watching us kiddo

[feral cape]

Wally made the parents go mad

[glossy gazelle]

Multiple potential reasons:

1. Revenge for encrouching on the Void
2. Unable to cope with the Void itself
3. Amplified state of being from Wally
4. Being trapped and unable to proceed (Sailor's have had bouts of madness from the doldrums for example)

[feral cape]

Rell implies this and Drifter outright states it

[feral cape]

Wally trapped them

[glossy gazelle]

Rell implies because he doesn't know for sure.
Drifter states it because he's become jaded and assumes.

But reality is we don't know everything

[normal mountain]

Not necessarily
The Zariman had a fatal error

That's all we really know

Unless the Holdfasts say something else

[glossy gazelle]

I wonder if that fatal error might be because they didn't send the whole finger...like how all railjacks have one.
So in theory the Zariman might have stalled out...

[normal mountain]

That's an interesting thought

[feral cape]

Which is that it hit something in the void a vast emptiness of the void and they somehow just so happened to hit something

[silk atlas]

Yeah.
In the Void.
Which Wally is very connected to.

[feral cape]

On the same ship where wally drove the parents mad and made a vague deal with a child

[lean garden]

Revenge for encroaching on the Void
Which still is causing the problem to be solved here
Unable to cope with the Void itself
Unlikely given the context of CoH, Rell's Webcomic and Drifter's KIM messages
Amplified state of being from Wally
Relies on the assumption of an aggressive and violent state of nature of almost every single adult, which already isnt even that likely.
Being trapped and unable to proceed (Sailor's have had bouts of madness from the doldrums for example)
Almost every adult had this, but not the children? Awfully targeted

[normal mountain]

How do you know the Zariman hit something?

[feral cape]

Because the rell comic said they do

[normal mountain]

Okay, I'll give you that
I haven't read that comic

[glossy gazelle]

Don't forget children are more adaptive than adults who are already set in their ways

[normal mountain]

But how do you know that what they hit was Wally?

[feral cape]

Oh rell also identitfies his mom as not his mom anymore before shooting her

[normal mountain]

The Granum Void has rocks in it
How do you know the Void doesn't have more?

[lean garden]

and yet none of the children went mad like the adults, adaptive or not, the fact of the matter is that whatever happened to the adults never happened to the children. Them critters are malleable yes, but it means theyre also malleable to become worse bastards.

And also this still assumes that the "ways" the adults are set in are of violence and aggression

[glossy gazelle]

Yea kids will describe people as not being who they are if they go mad...doesn't change where the madness comes from

[lean garden]

to be clear they dont actually say it, they do this instead:

[normal mountain]

Yep
Drugs, alcohol, Void-exposure

[glossy gazelle]

Have you seen humans? But philosophy aside kids were still new to Wally

[feral cape]

Certainly doesn't look like rocks

[lean garden]

and yet the comic demonstrates it as part of the thinking process to uncover wally

[lean garden]

and so were the adults. They were new to wally too

[lean garden]

And also, this still runs the assumption of the aggressive and violent default state of nature of adults only

Hobbes is rejoicing somewhere

[feral cape]

Kids are mean

[glossy gazelle]

Kids can be downwrite evil, so not wrong

However I'd still say adults are more prone to cabin fever than kids who are grouped together.

[normal mountain]

Oh great, him again

[lean garden]

The narrative slant of CoH was that sometimes "void exposure" is just a cheeky bastard warping minds

because there was the whole bit of lotus going "ah Rell's just got void exposure, no biggie" and then palladino goes "the hell it aint" and you check and you go "oh caca it really aint just void exposure theres a whole goober in here"

[lucid dagger]

I hate when my doc says its just void exposure but its really a whole goober

[feral cape]

Also why would rell have to hold wally back if wally isn't trying to force himself into places wally shouldn't be

[glossy gazelle]

Because Rell is an Autistic kid who thinks he's doing it to help the others, and maybe Wally just wants his finger back

[feral cape]

Cause if wally is just grumpy about people entering the void then why try and shove yourself into the other place

[glossy gazelle]

As an Autistic myself, I know I can be selfish, selfless, and selfcentered at the same time, with no explanation

[normal mountain]

And also revenge on those who kept it from him for so long

[feral cape]

Or maybe because wally has been nothing but violent and vindictive to literally everyone except baro

[glossy gazelle]

Would be ironic if it wasn't Wally but just that they couldn't reach Tao, with a giant Sentient ship in the way

[feral cape]

A giant sentient ship in the void?

[glossy gazelle]

No like at the other end

[feral cape]

What's next a human body blocking my path in lava

[lean garden]

Given that wally derives pleasure from crushing normal folk, I'm not certain that he "just" wants a finger

[feral cape]

Also like given everything he's done i doubt wally is going to get his finger back and then go home

[lean garden]

I mean, given that the Zariman likely predates Sentients, there wouldnt be a fat sentient goober on the receiving end

[feral cape]

Wherss that outdated list from the cryptarchy

[lucid dagger]

Wally definitely doesn't "just" want his finger because he was trying to reach for Entrati when he lost the finger

[glossy gazelle]

Just saying that the Rell comic doesn't indicate one way or another if they were traversing the Void or if they got stopped before going in.
So that big ol' crack could be them running into a Sentient ship at the other end. As another option

[lean garden]

Good thing we have the War Within and the Chains of Harrow Quest

[glossy gazelle]

Weren't sentients before the Zariman to prepare for them?

[lean garden]

where we know that they were mid jump

CoH has rell tell his mom that theyre moving at impossible speed, meaning theyre already jumping

[glossy gazelle]

In which case they already made it into the Void, so it's either a problem in the Void or at the other end

[feral cape]

his current crimes include:
The crashing of the first ever interstellar colony ship, then causing a bulk of the adults to go insane and then arming their children with space magic to kill/capture their parents
The death of and torture of an autistic space magic child who was the only one who knew about him and thus contained him for millennia until you the player character is able to take over.
The destruction of multiple landmasses and physical and mental damage to the inhabitants of a land created from the mind of a child who was victim of the previously mentioned crash, except without the arming with magic

Wow that's outdated

[lean garden]

These children were passengers on the Zariman Ten-Zero, the colony ship bound for Tau and lost to the Void.
Theres this from the POM-2, so this isnt likely to be a "they ran into issues on the other end"

[lucid dagger]

wait are we talking about why did stuff go wrong in the Zariman? We already know why

[lean garden]

The sentients were supposed to have built a extra-solar rail on the way to Tau, there is no reason for the zariman to jump by itself if there was a whole rail

[lucid dagger]

that was the whole point of the Duviri storybook. It's actually a story about how to control your emotions and it was given to all the children so they would be able to control themselves in the void or else their emotions could cause anything to happen

thus when the Zariman suffered some kind of accident, they didn't just fix it and keep moving because everyone's emotions started running wild

and then the adults lost control and got all twisted and became Angels

[lean garden]

I mean theres also the whole "wally made the adults go cray cray and then armed the kids with space magic"

[lean garden]

they have to die first to become angels

[lucid dagger]

do they? Kira didn't die did she?

oh wait no duh they were all dead at that point

[lean garden]

Like the only conceptual embodiment that resulted from the whole incident was duviri

[lucid dagger]

but yeah wally gave the kids space magic but only after everything started going wrong tbf

like even without the void-magic kids the Zariman was still doomed

[lean garden]

a solution to the problem he made

[feral cape]

If I break your leg and then splint it am I a good person

[lucid dagger]

the angels are themselves conceptual embodiments

all of the holdfasts are

[glossy gazelle]

Depends why you broke the leg

[feral cape]

This is literally the same problem the hives logic has
Things that suffer shouldn't exist
I am suffering because your killing me

[lean garden]

yknow, fair, let me re-clarify: conceptual embodiments from the children

[lucid dagger]

oh yeah fair but the kids didn't have time like Drifter did

Drifter had all that nice alone time to cook

[lean garden]

yes, which is why this isnt part of what went wrong in the incident

[lean garden]

I dont think having a "justification" for breaking someone's leg can always make you a "good" person

at a basic level "justified" does not necesarily translate into "good"

[lucid dagger]

I can't remember what the actual original problem even was that set everything off

I'm sure its probably in the Kira logs or one of the Zariman ones

[lean garden]

wait wait let me do some JJBA levels of "quotations"

[glossy gazelle]

If I have to break your leg to stop a bunch of nanites from shutting your brain down to make repairs and thus reset you to 0, am I good or bad?

[lean garden]

at a basic level "justified" does not necessarily translate into "good"

[feral cape]

I broke your leg because I felt like it

[normal mountain]

Could
If they broke their leg because they ran into you and fell down, might qualify

[glossy gazelle]

Context matters, then that was malicious

[feral cape]

Like wally drove the adults mad because he either felt like it or wanted to force the children of the ship into making a deal

[lean garden]

If they ran into me, I grab their leg, and shatter it

[feral cape]

So its either I'm bored time to cause people to die or aizen level opportunity assessment

[glossy gazelle]

Anyways, I looked into the sentients, no indication on the wiki when they were made. Just that they were terraforming robots with a weakness to the Void itself.

[feral cape]

They were made after multiple failed attempts to reach tau

[glossy gazelle]

Source? Cause my only time frame indication currently is that Ballas was there...but that means nothing considering the Orokin play musical chairs with bodies

[lean garden]

the Sentients were supposed to build an extra-solar rail on the way to Tau, this rail we know was completed because it was used and destroyed in the Old War. The existence of this rail makes the zariman's reliquary drive (and the use of it) extremely redundant

[feral cape]

Tuvul interrupted, "Our laws are sacred but do not forget The Plan, Ballas." His visage turned down to me. "Countless other ventures have failed The Plan; how will this machine fulfil its design?

[glossy gazelle]

Depends how fast a solar rail is, the distance between stars is vast and if it can't go beyond light speed it ain't gonna be a reasonable time

[feral cape]

https://www.orokinarchives.com/detron-crewman/

A solar rail is

A solar rail is a predetermined jump drive

Its the difference between a train and a plane

In functionality not speed

[lean garden]

I watched the ships one-by-one bending and gone. Each crammed with zero-tech soldiers sucking stale air, white knuckling their percussion rifles. Each filled with a desperation that comes from extinction. Our ship would be the last to cross the gap. Our ship had special cargo.

The punch came - and our windows became blinding. When we could see again our ship was somewhere else, shattered and dead in an instant.

My lungs were flattened, eyes full of death. Ship debris glittered like a night snow. The alien blue star was dark and blinding beyond us

Fast enough

[glossy gazelle]

Oh well, so much for the fat sentient theory.

Funny while it lasted.

Wait...the sentients arrived during the New War...that implies they rebuilt the solar rail...

[feral cape]

No

[lucid dagger]

I thought they just took the long way

[feral cape]

The sentients were already here just in the outer terminus

[proper barn]

it's HYPER SPACE JUMPING. it's as fast as the RJs are for Ships that don't have finger drives.

[lean garden]

Its the same sentients from the Old War

[normal mountain]

Lying in wait...
That's horribly ominous

[glossy gazelle]

Sadness, we need them to rebuild that so we can explore Tau

[proper barn]

no

They are the old sentients that where here

[feral cape]

Yea ask the last team that tried that

[proper barn]

when the old war ended. they are literally all fragments of Hunhow.

every sentient we fight is a fragment of Hunhow or one of his kids.

[glossy gazelle]

And Hunhow is lazily sleeping in the ocean right now...

[proper barn]

EXCEPT the eidolons which are fragments of a dead sentient.

[feral cape]

Having a planet dropped on you is kinds hard to get up from

[proper barn]

BUT IMAGINE THAT the only sentients we have fought is the RENAMTS of a sentient that was forever scarred by the Void.

[glossy gazelle]

The Revenant Mains: Pathetic

Most other people who don't rely on immortality itself: Should've moved

[proper barn]

imagine whole solar system full of Full power undamaged sentients.

[lean garden]

Gotta be beggin that the Sentients on Tau only stayed because they didnt want to fight

[proper barn]

I think it's cuz they didn't care

it's been 1000+ years

And they haven't had to deal with us they probably think everyones dead.

[feral cape]

I have a mirage build with revenant levels of survability it's great

[proper barn]

which all the orokin are dead so their plan worked.

[glossy gazelle]

Yea that would not stop my Chroma at all...or most warframes that are built properly.

[proper barn]

it would.

Also chroma is a warframe that needs the most help.

he has 1 good ability that is outclassed by most things.

[lean garden]

wait till you see my arcane battery QT chroma

[glossy gazelle]

Yes...I'm awaiting when Pablo does Chroma's rework...
I'm theorizing make Chroma the eximus frame...give a good explanation then where they come from and make it a different elemental than Lavos

[proper barn]

he's not a good warframe

he has a single good ability.

[lucid dagger]

As long as we can't reach Tau, the big fear they had is we'd go there and overpopulate and ruin things just like Origin system

[proper barn]

When he is good the game is not in ta good place.

[lucid dagger]

Entrati still seems to want to get to Tau

[glossy gazelle]

He use to have two with his ward...but then they "patched" it

[proper barn]

i mean we can go to Tau. We have been to tau before.

[proper barn]

The only half of the solar rail that is broken is the orogin system half

[lean garden]

and then they got clapped

[proper barn]

I think pazuul is actually trying to rebuild that half of the solar rail.

[glossy gazelle]

I don't remember that, war event?

[proper barn]

Old war.

Mag prime codex.

[lean garden]

^ this one

[proper barn]

don't be one of these people.

[glossy gazelle]

I appreciate the source point

[lucid dagger]

at which point we'd get immediately clapped like anyone else who goes there and isn't a sentient

[glossy gazelle]

It was a funny secondary way to wipe the floor without relying on vex armor

[proper barn]

you can use a real warframe

[glossy gazelle]

So we send Calliban first to make friends

[proper barn]

with 3-4 good abilites instead.

Like Cyte-09.

i actually really like how Cyte-09 is made and i like his 4.

[glossy gazelle]

Cyte-09 a sniper frame without a default silenced sniper...

[proper barn]

so?

you have a invise ability.

[glossy gazelle]

Just saying missed

Unfortunately I have the accuracy of a blind newt, so Cyte-09 doesn't work well for me.

[proper barn]

his 3 and 1 and 2 work with any weapon.

his 3 even works with melee which is funny.

[lean garden]

I do too, but Cyte's 1 makes it even easier because the glow is massive

[lucid dagger]

I've been using Cyte with Dual Toxocyst and its hilariously broken, its like slightly higher effort Mesa that doesn't require LOS

[proper barn]

I mean

[glossy gazelle]

I know where to aim, doesn't mean I can hit it

[proper barn]

I just like the Sniper more tbh.

it's very fun to use.

[lean garden]

what are you a stormtrooper?

[lucid dagger]

oh the sniper's fantastic too its just harder to hit things with than Dual Tox and DT Incarnon has the same ability to spread headshots

[proper barn]

Boooooooo

Boring boooo

[glossy gazelle]

No I'm a Chroma main that uses an Exodia Zaw to vaporize anything that's in the way

[lucid dagger]

I use the sniper for big targets when I need more damage

but DT Incarnon to max out stealth and clear packs

I hope we get some good Cyte-09 lore, bro was apparently an assassin?

[blissful merlin]

Oh same but cyte is a blast to use even for me who sucks at sniping in general.

[glossy gazelle]

Only thing holding my Chroma back is that he has only one good ability to work with.
But boy do I milk that as much as I can

[proper barn]

I like playing a warframe that does abilties that do something.

[normal mountain]

I mainly used Chroma for the primary element Nightwave challenges
'Kill x enemies with Toxin damage' and soforth

[glossy gazelle]

Someday Chroma will have his rework...I would've thought it'd be during the year of the dragon...but you know can't have everything

[proper barn]

Chroma to me is like

a warframe i hate on the level of like Vauban.

anyway LORE

[normal mountain]

You hate Vauban?

[proper barn]

yes

[normal mountain]

Why?

I love him

[lucid dagger]

Balls is too close to Ballas, I get it

[glossy gazelle]

He's the vaccuum frame

[humble sierra]

Chroma’s 4 doubles money nearby

[proper barn]

you have vacuum on every pet and it never goes away.

[proper barn]

that does not count.

[normal mountain]

Alright, I hate it when people spam Vortexes with Vauban, but that's about it

[proper barn]

It being a Credit doubler sometimes doesn't make it good.

[glossy gazelle]

Not very useful except for the Profit taker

[humble sierra]

You’re right, it’s extremely niche but when you consider the 1999 biosafe cache things give you 100k each…

I opened the vault, got 100k. I used Chroma, Effigy worked with me (200k). I bought a booster, it worked too (400k). Even the “First Mission of the Day” booster worked. (800k). Then I was lucky enough for my Loyal/Resourceful Retriever mod to kick in and double the initial, effigy’d Pickup (now 1.6M). If there was a Credit Booster weekend, and I was lucky enough to have all those other factors… 3.2M.

Oh, and i think you can get partial credit boosters from Relay Blessings too, which I believe stack with other credit boosters? I’m not good enough at math to figure out how much that could add.

If 1999 ever became an Omnia fissure area, the Legacyte Capture mission— and the Hellscrub missions— is “infinite”. After a couple of Relics, you get +25% Credit Booster. Just keep her going for a while, imagine how much that would be

[proper barn]

all his abilties are slow and like he has like only 1 good ability that is his best 2 old abilities.

[lucid dagger]

imagine being that tired of Index and Profit Taker

[proper barn]

oh yeah they don't have fissures yet.

[glossy gazelle]

At least he wasn't as poor as Hyroid pre-rework

[proper barn]

Also i hate all the arenas. They just aren't fun when i don't get energy from killing enemies.

[proper barn]

sure.

[glossy gazelle]

Hydroid did not deserve that pirate hat

[proper barn]

he does now though.

[lucid dagger]

neither do Albrecht Labs, I'm not sure they ever will tbh they're not part of the normal solar map and take a long time to access so it would lock out players

[glossy gazelle]

Yep, he's redeemed and fits his lore as a warframe now

[normal mountain]

I've heard of Undertow
I'm very glad they removed that
It sounds niche and nearly useless

[lucid dagger]

plus there needs to be something to keep pulling people back to origin system missions

[proper barn]

is that his puddle?

his puddle didn't work correcntly btw.

never did.

People talk about wanting the puddle back BUT THEY DIDNT PLAY HIM OR USE IT.

[glossy gazelle]

It's for the memes, that's it

[proper barn]

IT WASNT EVEN MEMEY

[normal mountain]

Nostalgia
That's it

[glossy gazelle]

The most useless ability that's slow, pathetically weak, does horrible damage, and doesn't even match its own tooltip lore...

[proper barn]

i am now just thinking about all the people that talk about wanting "trials" (raids) back when no one played them. They where bad. like EDA is just raids but more intresting and good rewards.

[glossy gazelle]

To me it was a meme, hydroid was just a sad puddle.
Now he's a true pirate

Anyways, we should get back to Lore as previously pointed out by Vinny

[proper barn]

yes

[normal mountain]

...do we have any Hydroid lore?

[proper barn]

LORE

we have like The Prime trailer?

[normal mountain]

Aside from the prime trailer

[glossy gazelle]

Sadly not much of a Codex on him

[normal mountain]

Though trailer is nice
Better than Garuda's situation

[glossy gazelle]

Fear... is the greatest of faith. While our immortal vines have left us distant from our baser selves, consider our subjects:

Those who gaze upon our cloud-swept towers with simmering, violent envy, they hold still the old fears.

Depth and darkness... The windless embrace...

We will give to fear a form and yet none; a vague hydra, a lode monstrosity, surging from the unfathomable ...reminding them who their gods are. Hydroid.
~Ballas

Far as I can tell, Hydroid was designed for fear then

[lucid dagger]

be abyssal water frame
have zone in game literally called "The Abyssal Zone"
you get the horse frame from it
pirate frame is from random dude on Earth

[normal mountain]

Another fear frame
Nekros wasn't enough, huh?

[glossy gazelle]

Orokin did not seem to be against ruling through fear

[normal mountain]

Point taken, but don't diss Dagath
She suffered enough

[glossy gazelle]

Or perhaps using it to raise moral "Hey look at this guy, he's not fighting you, but your enemies!"

[normal mountain]

I guess so
Sort of a backhanded 'be glad he's on our side'

[lucid dagger]

I mean there's multiple stories of Orokin using frames on citizens

[glossy gazelle]

Better than Chroma's...Chroma's only got two lines from Lotus:
"This is Chroma, an ancient legend, master of the elements.

When all the land is in ruins, Tenno, only Chroma will remain."

Hahaha...master of elements. Right, this was before Lavos...and sure I'd love for Chroma to have immortality but sadly Chroma does not.

[lucid dagger]

it wasn't only "be glad he's on our side" but sometimes "obey or we'll send in this guy"

[glossy gazelle]

Yep, and no one wants to be [redacted] by Hydroid....

[lucid dagger]

I'd splash around in Hydroid's puddle any day

[glossy gazelle]

But regular people probably do not

[normal mountain]

Chroma doesn't have a Prime Trailer?

[humble sierra]

Albrecht labs have Omnia fissures, I’ve seen Survival and Alchemy consistently have them whenever Lua Conjunction survivals aren’t there

[glossy gazelle]

Don't think he does...let me double check that

Yep he does not have an official one

[normal mountain]

BOOOOO

[glossy gazelle]

Maybe if they do a rework?

[blissful merlin]

I need sevagoth and xaku prime trailers….hope they get one eventually

[normal mountain]

I think Garuda deserves it before them
She has literally nothing to her name for lore

[blissful merlin]

forget Garuda like DE has, I want trailers for those specifically… 😈😈

[normal mountain]

I don't want to forget Garuda

[worn trout]

Why wally starts showing up in the orbiter as our operator right after chains of harrow? And whats the relation between wally and rell? I thought it was rell al this time the one to do that, also i thought it was rell the one sitting on top of wally at the end of tnw

[quartz sky]

Besides Rell being on the zariman and a Tenno, I think the story put them side by side to hint at Wally's struggle to understand humanity

[lean garden]

That was your own wally doppleganger on top of wally's vitruvian wall

[quartz sky]

Also from the wiki

Interestingly, according to Albrecht Entrati's notes, it was noted that The Indifference seemed to be the most interested with unique individuals.

[worn basalt]

okay so that's what i waited months for? that hardly 30 minute quest? I am so confused

the protos died, i got shot, the quest ends, but they are still there in hollovania

[silk atlas]

1. Re-read the mail you just got.
2. You didn't finish the "quest" (there's a second part after you get "Liked" with all 6 members with their Chemistry mechanic.)

((Requires Rank 3 with the Hex Syndicate))

[worn basalt]

oh so how long is that part?

[lean garden]

also quite surprised you managed to clear it in 30 minutes

[silk atlas]

idr

[worn basalt]

cuz i was lowkey expecting a new war esque quest, massive lore dump, etc

[silk atlas]

Yeah never expect something like that again. That was a super special case because it was the end of that specific arc.

[worn basalt]

30m to 1h but around 30m for sure

[lean garden]

almost all playthroughs that are publicly available show that it takes around an hour (to an hour and a half) to complete

to do it in half the time is a feat

[silk atlas]

TNW was in development for like 5 years and even then it was rushed out and gutted due to COVID

[worn basalt]

ah so im stuck in an infinite loop from the beginning of the quest?

[lean garden]

you have played for 30 minutes at least for sure, but from the looks of it the quest is closer to an hour than it is to 30 minutes

[worn basalt]

new war was peak fiction, it made me fall in love with warframe a second time, i came back after 4 years hiatus around 7 months ago, replayed the story from the very beginning and absoulutely adored that quest

then now we're going after entrati, the protos, 1999 i was expecting something massive

[worn basalt]

i see what you mean, maybe im just too cracked

[lean garden]

or perhaps your estimations are slightly off

[worn basalt]

could entirely be the case yeah

even if that is entirely the case, i would say 45 minutes tops

[silk atlas]

You'll definitely want to temper them going forward.

[lean garden]

tnw was designed to be roughly 2hr30mins ish of playtime
reb stated that The Hex is about half that

[lean garden]

if you want lore drops then you should be doing the dating system

tons of lore drops

some which is explicit confirmation of what we knew

others more insight into albrecht and wally

[worn basalt]

for real? tnw felt way longer than that, 4 to 6 hours at least

god that was such a good quest

[lean garden]

well, it was anywhere from 2hr30 to 6, depending on your affinity for stealth sections

some people have months and counting to tnw playtime

because they cant do the stealth section

[charred patio]

wait a minute, the hex bomb goes off at new year eve, right?

[worn basalt]

im sorry i dont mean to be rude but is that for real

[lean garden]

I was joking about what makes the difference between 2hrs30 and 6, but there legitmately was a guy who complained about the stealth section once, touted he had stopped playing warframe because everytime he logs on he was stuck on the stealth section. This was for months

it might even be a year now

[worn basalt]

that's wild 😭

[normal mountain]

I believe it
I was stuck for a good three days on that part

I have since come to hate Narmer Deacons with extreme passion
Killing them in Archon Hunts gives me great satisfaction

[rugged bone]

massive?

[charred patio]

we have a jaeger-sized warframe
thats pretty massive if you ask me

[analog tinsel]

I still feel the ending of 1999 is too obvious for what comes next

and DE is just saving it for a tenno-con reveal

so for anyone lamenting not getting something a la New War, good news I guess

[old dome]

i mean... tnw took like, what? the entirety of the 2nd arc's quests to set up?? 1999 is still relatively new.

[restive river]

I thought it was known that 1999 wasn’t gonna be like the new war
no way it tied up the arc that just started last year lmao

[analog tinsel]

Whisper in the walls was like.........us BARELY getting started

if anything I kinda think 1999 is analogous to the sacrifice

[restive river]

It was technically the start to the arc

[analog tinsel]

I do kinda think the next arc will probably just be the void war itself tbh

[restive river]

In my eyes it’s an analogue to like. The war within
With whispers as the second dream

[restive river]

The void war arc is the current arc

We’re just as the start of it

[analog tinsel]

right, but like the "void war" quest

is probably coming

[restive river]

We’ve already been facing off against Wally and now we have his poison

[analog tinsel]

like the actual event itself

[restive river]

Who knows what will happen in Tau and what needs to be done prior to that

[analog tinsel]

kinda the only way I can interpret the post credit scene atm for 1999 tbh

[restive river]

Like to go to Tau we need to safely remove the Zariman
I’m sure there’s some Narmer stuff involved if Tau is gonna be important, and it is
And Duviri still exists as a bastion against Wally

[analog tinsel]

the giants albrecht built were more or less built for war, and now that the Kalymos sequence is complete, it might just be time for actual........war

[restive river]

Yes, iirc the vessels are for fighting Wally

Our main issue rn is gonna be actually getting to Tau

Also there’s finding out where the original finger is

And what we owe Wally

[analog tinsel]

I don't think we're going to Tau anytime soon, (Rebecca has even shot it down in interviews), but I think Tau might be the next arc, and we might have to go there as a consequence of this arc's ending

[restive river]

Albrecht is literally going to Tau and the Hex mention Tau being our next location

Rebb lied :p

[analog tinsel]

does Rebb usually Lie

because like, that interview is 2ish years old

[restive river]

Like I doubt we’re going this year, there’s prep to be done

We have no idea how big Tau will be or what we’ll be facing

[analog tinsel]

but yeah, like my general point is just that, the previous arc was called the New War arc (iirc), and it obviously ended with a quest, literally of the New War itself

[restive river]

In this instance she def was lying just so nothing was spoiled lol

[analog tinsel]

we're definitely building up to a war, after the arc's namesake, but who knows if it'll be after 1999 or if there's one more quest beat

maybe a couple more

[restive river]

Again, there’s prep to be done

We don’t have any methods to go to Tau atm

Best we got is Yonta knows how to make the jump if we could do it again

Big problem being you can’t just unplug the Zariman

[analog tinsel]

if we actually are going to Tau, then yeah we definitely have a few more steps before then

[restive river]

We are going to Tau

[analog tinsel]

I'm just........not quite convinced yet, although when Albrecht mentioned Tau I lost it

[restive river]

Albrecht mentions Tau
The Hex mention us going to Tau
We’re going to Tau lol

I literally had a convo with Lettie about how ill have to go to Tau without her :p

That’s our next big stop for sure

[analog tinsel]

I do also think, there's an element to 1999 where, the Driftor has done his part, and it's kinda "mission complete" on his end, and now it's the operator's turn

I still kind of find it a shame that they didn't do much with Lotus in 1999

[restive river]

The Drifter will be going too though

They seem instrumental to fighting Wally

[analog tinsel]

oh he definitely will, but I imagine the next major plot beat will focus on the operator

[restive river]

Wally seems to not be able to copy the Drifter for whatever reason

[lean garden]

or or or we finally hook back to pazuul

[graceful swan]

Watch Albrecht go to Tau and get killed instantly

[restive river]

Or that yes, another enemy of my enemy is my friend situation perhaps

Though Pazuul is far crazier than Hunhow

[lean garden]

DE hire me I can help with writing a nice narrative hook to link back to pazuul and then go to tau

[lean garden]

nah thats old, lets gaslight pazuul

[analog tinsel]

re this, I kind of find it a shame that even though it wouldn't have made sense for Lotus to be in 1999 proper, that there isn't anything post quest pertaining to her

it would be sick to go to albrecht's lab post 1999 and she's just........not there anymore

or has some new dialogue

[restive river]

I’m still sad there’s nothing new on the lore PC

But also some of that may be added with echoes

[analog tinsel]

a friend of mine thinks the technorot liches are "the missing link" rn story wise

[graceful swan]

Doubt it considering the Echoes to Whispers had nothing new

[restive river]

I can dream ):

[restive river]

Iirc the devs said they’re not story relevant, at least not for the actual 1999 quest hence why they could be delayed

[graceful swan]

I think it was only made to keep you up to date with events before the arc not stuff afterwards

[analog tinsel]

my friend is referring to that bit in the 1999 tennocon demo, where you are in the railjack and it's like "meanwhile in the origin system"

[restive river]

Yes, thats how we go end our lich

[graceful swan]

I wish the Backrooms PC had the notes too

[restive river]

Same as any other lich :p

Same!

[analog tinsel]

I vaguely remember mention of like how things from 1999 are manifesting in the origin system, but yeah it could just be referring to the liche

[restive river]

Yeah but there’s a section on the kalymos sequence, I’d like it to say it was completed at least 😔

[restive river]

I think that’s just the liches and that’s due to us making a change to the timeline by creating that lich

[analog tinsel]

I assume whatever story quest we get as a follow up to 1999, will be Christmas of next year, so I'm gonna just sit back and hope we get a follow up to Jade Shadows

[restive river]

We will

The child is important, we just don’t know how yet

[analog tinsel]

we definitely will but hopefully sooner than later

[restive river]

Hopefully

[analog tinsel]

like this year sooner

plz

[restive river]

I really doubt Tau is this year so that’d be nice
Though we also need whatever prep for Tau
Which may include what happened in Jade Shadows, who knows

[analog tinsel]

the baby will get us to Tau

[graceful swan]

Everyone thinking we are going to Tau this update forget Albrecht could easily just be planning to go not actually going yet

[restive river]

:p

[restive river]

We’re def not going for a while

Not in 2025, I really doubt that

[analog tinsel]

I do think it would be awesome if Tau is.......more then just a tileset, I want it to be like a second origin system, with new planets, and eventually railjack incorporated in

so they can take their time on Tau

[graceful swan]

Albrecht only said it’s in sight not it’s coming next update

[restive river]

Also we need to somehow get Loid and Albrecht back together so they can kiss

[restive river]

Yes, its def not the next big thing

I think anyone who thinks Tau is literally next is fooling themselves
There’s no way it is

[analog tinsel]

Warframe Tau update tag-line: "now in sight"

[limber pulsar]

even if going to tau is the next major story quest (probably not) it wont happen for a couple years, these kinds of updates take long to make, they were hyping up 1999 for like a year and a half

[analog tinsel]

yeah :/

[graceful swan]

Albrecht is just DE giving us a reason to actually go to Tau

[analog tinsel]

Rebecca: "Tau now in sight, releases when it's ready"

"leave us alone plz"

but yeah, it's just a weird spot we're in atm, obviously it's january so we're gonna get info soon, but, this might be the most in the dark warframe's immediate future has been?

[graceful swan]

Imagine Albrecht lands in Tau and just gets shot on sight

[restive river]

Like I’ve been saying, there’s a lot of in-universe prep for Tau too

[analog tinsel]

like in 2023, they announced whispers and simultaneously teased 1999

but post 1999 is ????

[restive river]

Tau
At some point

[analog tinsel]

aside from the in story beat of Tau, it's weird to genuinely have no idea what's dropping for warframe content this year lol.

[graceful swan]

1999 isn’t even over yet

[analog tinsel]

like we're getting technorot liches since they were delayed........there are rumors of what's potentially coming

and then operator rework being thought about

meanwhile: I just want rhino heirloom

[analog tinsel]

yeah we're definitely gettingn an echoes update that includes the stuff that was delayed + probably new stuff

[limber pulsar]

echoes of 1999 gonna be pretty big if it has the cut liches + a full update of its own that was originally planned

[analog tinsel]

there are rumors/leaks about what that full update that was originally planned could be, but I'm gonna assume we aren't allowed to talk about them in here lol

I imagine we're going to find out soon either way

we know they've already confirmed to expect one new protoframe in 2025 iirc.

I believe Rebecca confirmed that in an interview

[graceful swan]

We can’t talk about leaks here or the Unofficial server

[analog tinsel]

figured

but yeah, re the new protoframe, I kinda hope they do what they did with Quincy/Cyte-09 again

protoframe ------> new warframe

[raw stone]

So the protoframe became the warframe? Yeah... but then... is Cyte a Paradox?

[analog tinsel]

yeah

as for the latter bit, no idea lol

I really love how they did the initital 1999 protoframes, and how they picked out the warframes that they did for the protoframes

[raw stone]

I mean... yeah, between like the 8, you gotta do Excal, Volt, and Mag obvs. But then Nyx, Trin, and Cyte... Cyte obvs. The new frame.

[analog tinsel]

but with the next protoframe, I kinda want them to just go the protoframe becomes a warframe route again, just because imho, it would be a lot more interesting

[raw stone]

I haven't seen anything on the post new year's stuff...everything's speculation

[analog tinsel]

it is but I definitely recall Reb saying there would be a new protoframe in 2025

think she mentioned it in a video interview iirc

so I'm expecting that much at least

[restive river]

No.

Cyte is not a paradox

There is no bootstrap in 1999

[glossy mountain]

As much as I like the Protoframe is feels weird to play as them

[restive river]

There will be new protos yes

Rebb and Megan have mentioned them

[analog tinsel]

hypothetically if he was a paradox, I feel like the implication is that all of the warframes with protoframes are also a paradox

lol

[restive river]

We don’t know how many frames have protos and none of them should be paradoxes anyway

[glossy mountain]

Wish there was a way to mix our Drifter with a frame to make our own Protoframe

[limber pulsar]

protoframes never literally become the original frame

[analog tinsel]

I'd love a world where they just contineously update 1999 with new protoframes

[restive river]

The timeline is
Ballas makes the Warframes
Albrecht uses that info and improves on it to make the Protos

[restive river]

We will get new ones, probably not a lot but def new ones will come

[analog tinsel]

I'm expecting just one more tbh

[restive river]

Only problem being we’re immune to the infestation

[restive river]

We could see at least two more

[glossy mountain]

Hmm true

[restive river]

I imagine they’ll treat them similarly to deluxe and heirloom skins, more so heirloom
That being a special skin they do on occasion

[analog tinsel]

I just really love the "vibes" of 1999, and I'd love for it to get updated as part of the main game

[restive river]

The protos need a lot more time and effort as each one has an established personality and requires more writing and voice acting

[analog tinsel]

give it an open world or don't

[restive river]

I don’t think 1999 needs an open world

[analog tinsel]

I would like to at least see more modes incorporated into the tileset tbh

[restive river]

I’m glad they’ve moved away from that in favor of the hub and larger more explorable tilesets

[analog tinsel]

disrupted in 1999 when

[limber pulsar]

warframe really doesnt need any more open worlds

[restive river]

I’d def love more 1999 gamemodes

[restive river]

We have 4
3 for the main factions and Duviri being a special case
We’re chilling

[analog tinsel]

if it's for any of the other planets, I think I'm good, but I'd make an exception for 1999, just because the city is so cool

[restive river]

If we ever get a new open world it should be Tau
But thats about it tbh

[analog tinsel]

but I'm very much fatigued of the open world stuff, so fair

[limber pulsar]

just hoping echoes gives us a fun weekly grind like necracells

[restive river]

That’d be nice

[analog tinsel]

no idea what DE is envisioning Tau as, but I'd be so down for a completely new system, with new planets

[restive river]

I can see them updating 1999 further tbh, maybe expanding on the precursor Orokin, more on Hollvania and alt Earth

[restive river]

I’m expecting at most 1 new planet and for the Vessels to be involved somehow

[river verge]

guys, i have an idea what if theres a new planet in warframe and its the black hole (i mean its not a planet but yeah) what do u guys think? wouldnt it be sick????

[restive river]

How would that work

You can’t stand on a black hole
You just fall in forever

[river verge]

iii dont know exactly but we are space ninjass what cant we do right

[restive river]

Also a black hole would disrupt the entire system :p

We’d need a lore explanation for how we can survive a black hole

[river verge]

yeah i havent thought about that

THAT WOULD BE COOL

[restive river]

It’d be cool
But not really feasible

[river verge]

tag the devs

[restive river]

Do not

[river verge]

HAHAHAA I MEAN NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE IN A GAME RIGHT

[graceful swan]

Railjack casually shooting one not affecting the universe

[restive river]

If the devs set limitations then yes some things are impossible

[restive river]

That’s a void hole :p

[graceful swan]

Even worse

[restive river]

I’d much prefer a black hole themed frame rather than an actual black hole

[feral cape]

Vauban uses a singularity

[restive river]

I’d also assume the void hole and a potential black hole frame are utilizing void tech to stabilize it

[river verge]

or maybe like a new universe? like similar planets but with differences?

[restive river]

What

[river verge]

like the planet that is very similar to earth (forgot the name)

[restive river]

Do you mean another star system?

[graceful swan]

I have heard people say Grendel can eat a universe

[restive river]

Cause that’d be Tau

[river verge]

yeah i guess

[restive river]

He can not

[river verge]

oh whats that idk btw im a returning player (stopped in 2018) sooo i might not know a lot of stuff

[feral cape]

There's also the option of a black hole cosmology system

[restive river]

Tau is the potential next big location and the home of the sentients

[feral cape]

Black holes ar portals to other universes

[restive river]

Theoretically

[river verge]

ohhh btw i only reached the sacrfice main quest wise

[restive river]

You should play through the rest of the game lol

[river verge]

so i dont know anything about the end game stuffs

[river verge]

im trying

[tall echo]

Black holes would be hard to implement as a location or frame

[restive river]

Goodluck and have fun

[limber pulsar]

tau is based on a real life thing. a solar system with planets similar enough to earth we could probably live there with minimal teraforming, about 12 light years away

[restive river]

Exactly, they’re too disruptive

[river verge]

that is so cool

[tall echo]

There's not enough to build an entire frame around

[feral cape]

You could build a frame around mass

Have the ultimate move be a black hole

[restive river]

Funny thing is I think there’s actually a closer earth-like planet
Thing is with Tau is the Orokin wanted to terraform it, not just find an Earth-like planet

[river verge]

hmm what about an earth like planet but its a hollow planet

u guys ever heard about the hollow earth stuff

[restive river]

That’s

Not real

[tall echo]

Eris

[river verge]

yeahh its not but what if warframe has that

[tall echo]

Basically hollow in a way

[river verge]

oh dang ok

[restive river]

Deimos is kinda that judging by how big the labs are

[tall echo]

Eris is a completely infested... moon?

[restive river]

Eris is a moon yes

[tall echo]

Well those are just underground structures and void

[restive river]

True yeah

[tall echo]

Probably a lot of void magic involved to make it take up less space

[restive river]

Mayhaps

Albrecht casually becoming the Doctor :p

[limber pulsar]

it is funny how big a deal they make out of tau when they already terraformed more inhospitable places like mars or the moon, but the idea that they do it not because its practical but out of a sort of manifest destiny is what makes it interesting

[tall echo]

Doctor... whooo??
(Read in dalek voice)

[tall echo]

The special thing wasn't terraforming an inhospitable place, it was the fact that it's a different system

And it was for a practical reason, they were running out of resources

[restive river]

Ye

[graceful swan]

I was the Scientist I became the Doctor now I become the Explorer -Albrecht Entrati

[raw stone]

Deimos.

Nah I'm kidding... that's an infested nest.

[stiff fable]

....except on the inside, where it's literally the Void

Huh you know Albrecht reached Duviri from Deimos. Guess there IS a Hollow Earth in Warframe.

[raw stone]

That's your only hallows.

[feral cape]

They were running out of resources in sol so tau needed to be terraformed

[hybrid marlin]

Look at them. They come to this place when they know they are not pure. Tenno use the keys, but they are mere trespassers. Only I, Vor, know the true power of the Void. I was cut in half, destroyed, but through it's Janus Key, the Void called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn. We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false prophet, an impostor who knows not the secrets of the Void. Behold the Tenno, come to scavenge and desecrate this sacred realm. My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment? Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the Janus Key. Forever bound to the Void. Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my Janus key. It is time. I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my Janus key. They will learn it's simple truth. The Tenno are lost, and they will resist. But I, Vor, will cleanse this place of their impurity.

[zinc bronze]

Can someone fill me in on the lore of Excalibur umbra

[proper barn]

did you play the sacrifice?

[zinc bronze]

not even close

[proper barn]

then no

get to the sacrifice.

[zinc bronze]

Ok

[proper barn]

it literally is a lore quest about him.

Why do you ask?

[zinc bronze]

I'm just trying to get him and I want to so lore about him before I main umbra

[proper barn]

THE QUEST IS LORE ALL ABOUT HIM

I think you'll be pleased.

if you have any questions come back after.

[zinc bronze]

Ok

[proper barn]

how closer or far away are you from the sacrifice?

[zinc bronze]

I'm on Natah

[proper barn]

OH that isn't actually that far from the sacifice

but you haven't even done second dream.

Do second dream.

[zinc bronze]

Ok I will do that I just got to get to Neptune

Let my suffering continue again

[frigid path]

He a little sad

[woven coyote]

Its gonna be worth it to wait until after the quests to get some explanations

[gloomy anchor]

So it's been a minute since I did Dante stuff, what was the connection between parvos and the levarian/dante

[zinc bronze]

Understood

[woven coyote]

Blackmailing drusus the curator of the leverian through his debt

Think drusus needed to get relics to pay his debt so off we went to the labs
I think with some aid from loid who knew drusus and dante

[gloomy anchor]

Hmm so he was always a warframe

It doesn't really have an origin beyond that

From what I can find

It doesn't have the story of how Dante became a Warframe just that he wasn't one of the mad ones.

[raw stone]

Dante was likely a soul warframe. A term I'm keeping for frames with displayed sentience and autonomy. Jade for example is the most recent.

Soul Warframes being likely the original person as the warframe. Not an infested copy

Dante actually... doesn't have powers, I think. All his power manipulations directly stem from Noctua, the Void Book. So we have... never seen him use his warframe powers itself.

What we consider his "Warframe powers" is all the book.

I' GETTING SIDETRACKED. Anyway The whole Parvos/Dante/Drusus Thruple is that... Dante's Prex says it.

[graceful swan]

You saying infested copy makes it sound like the original was never infested

[raw stone]

Infested copy as in like... terminator-style.

The mindless copies, please.

Anyway, Dante visited the long-gone Entrati libraries presumably after Entrati sailed off to 1999, and when Loid was asleep. But likely... Dante used to visit as he is so tied to Loid and has a dedicated tile for him. Anyway, he visited the senile sanctum, encountered the enemies we encounter, heard voidtongue and got so stuck in the pot with its curling words. He yearned for knowledge and it gave him that promised desire. Noctua, the Void Book.

[feral cape]

He was gen 1

[raw stone]

It is... unsaid if he went mad actually, got destroyed, or something else, but Drusus laments that he didn't help Dante. Parvos also knows Voidtongue apparently.

[feral cape]

Jade and umbra are special cases

[raw stone]

mad as in insane, btw. Not legit hateful

Hmn. Well... darn.

[feral cape]

But the other frames that operate without a tenno are generation 1 frames Dante kullevero gen 1 rhino

[raw stone]

I dtill mean y'know. The original progenitor frame. Or something.

Anyway, find that Dante Prex in the Leverian exhibition for Dante.

[vital heath]

why exactly did Albrecht choose 1999 out of every possible year he could’ve gone to

assuming he could choose

[graceful swan]

Well it was the year of the beginning which Wally couldn't easily follow to

[vital heath]

the beginning of what

like Y2K or

[north ferry]

I thought there's an implication he had a fascination with the era? Like the computers around his labs.

Which doesn't make sense but hey, someone else probably knows better

[vital heath]

Honestly I thought that was the reverse with 1999 leaking into the anatomica after he went back in time

[graceful swan]

All is in readiness. Loid will do as he is bid, though his eyes silently plead with me to choose another path.

As I await my final crossing to the past, I ponder what role a scientist may play in so spiritual a matter as 'absolution'. How in the alchemy of the soul, even repentance must necessarily be a calculated task.

I will repair what I have broken, no more and no less. The scales must balance. And in such a monstrous penitence as this, I shall take no heed of the dust that may fall upon them on either side, the dust of petty lives.

The builders of old tempered their mortar with blood, to appease the most ancient of land-spirits. We should have been so wise. Yet it is not too late to learn.

The sands fall. The circuit completes. I return to the place of the beginning.

Let witless hordes bleat their disdain for every fervent plan;
The deal is done, the die is cast. I end as I began.

[vital heath]

what’s the beginning exactly

like the infestation with the grey strain??

[woven coyote]

No idea

Maybe we will clear it up as the arc continues

[north ferry]

Warframe vagueness? It may not be detailed enough yet in game and dangling our imagination as bait.

[vital heath]

More to ponder while I work

[north ferry]

Potentially it's the first place he went back in time?

Multiverse and timetravel weirdness.

Hmm, so when exactly does the Zariman return to the system? Is it in response to the void portal thingy that the operator and lotus' hand went into at he start of the new war? Wouldn't Ballas have torn the thing apart for loot if that was the case?
I'm trying to figure our the steps in the Drifter's path.

[vital heath]

Return when

Like when it ended its original journey?

[lament stirrup]

I believe the Zariman's re-emergence was triggered by Ballas trying to open a void portal by draining the sun.

[north ferry]

It's not on the Star Map until after New War, unless somehow my memory is really screwy.

[vital heath]

Or when it re-appears in the system in the Albrecht membrane

[vital heath]

I might be losing it I thought it was around Duviri

[north ferry]

I'm probably losing it.

[hexed oxide]

zariman appears after new war after angels of the zariman, did it too long ago to remember why it came back though

[vital heath]

We’re all losing it

[hexed oxide]

we are warframe players what do you expect

[vital heath]

born to destiny forced to warframe

[limber pulsar]

zariman reappeared cause the angels started being more active cause wally started being more active cause of ballas trying to open a portal

[north ferry]

The issue is the visit to the Zariman in New War as compared to the introduction of the Zariman in Angels gets confusing.

[graceful swan]

One was a loop thing the other wasn't

[limber pulsar]

you only go to the zariman in the new war as a memory

[north ferry]

Unless it's specifically the og Zariman being visited? The one that the tenno were from just in the void.
Except as I understand the Drifter entered Origin through the Zariman because it was stuck in the membrane.

[graceful swan]

The Zariman in TNW was loop stuff
Angels, we learn its actually been in the Void plugging a hole

[vital heath]

The drifter entered the origin because of the timeline divergence

[limber pulsar]

zariman has nothing to do with drifter leaving duviri

[proper barn]

WELLLLLLL

[vital heath]

I don’t know how j got here im just here to hang

bang.

[proper barn]

no

they enter cuz they get out of duviri.

[lament stirrup]

I'm pretty sure the Zarimans emergence is why the Drifter is in the Origin system and not their own tjmeline.

[vital heath]

send help I don’t remember anything

[proper barn]

also They have lotus's hand that we regrow her from @vital heath

[vital heath]

wait what

[proper barn]

Like the drifter litearlly has Lotus's hand and then in the new war you SEE that hand.

WE REGROW HER FROM A HAND

[graceful swan]

Why are you here to hang Bang Husky?

[north ferry]

God it's hard to figure out this swear word

[vital heath]

starts with A and ends with gale

[vital heath]

I thought she just like, manifested again after the events of Nathan

[proper barn]

Arthur and Elanor Nightingale?

[vital heath]

Natah

[proper barn]

what?

[vital heath]

natah not Nathan

[proper barn]

Natah is like before the second dream.

[vital heath]

my autocorrect is on steroids

[proper barn]

why would Natah be how she gets back in the new war.

We see her get cut and then thrown into the void.