lore-discussion

[proper barn]

Warframe is Dynasty Warriors if you want like dark souls or something

That's a different game bud.

[restive river]

Warframe is literally a power fantasy game?

That being said it can be that and still have difficulty to it
Which it does have

[restive harbor]

Is there a canon quest order that’s current? The one on the website isn’t.

[graceful swan]

Yes the one in codex

[restive river]

^

[restive harbor]

Where does Duviri Paradox get placed?

Mine has some unfinished stuff

[restive river]

Technically at any point but the Drifter gets stabbed the same time the Operator does at the end of Act 1 in the New War
So then

[graceful swan]

Duviri is canonically around New War but DE decided to place it in a random place due to Paradox stuff

[restive harbor]

So… Wait. Should I do it before New War then?

[restive river]

Or after

[graceful swan]

You’d probably understand it more if you did it after

[restive river]

It doesn’t really matter since you can’t do it at the same time as the new war
So either before or after

I’ve had people do it before and after
I did it after
After is probably better but it can be done before

It is now a prerequisite for the Hex quest so you’ll have to do it anyway

[proper barn]

Yeah we have a certain difficulty I agree but I feel like Razvan wants a difficulty we don't have and might not have.

[restive river]

Wdym?

Cause power fantasy doesn’t mean no difficulty

[restive harbor]

I guess that makes sense

[proper barn]

Sure. Dynasty warriors has hard levels and difficulties but there is always gonna be some level of fodder.

also reading back what Rav said they where actually going "lets not fight tanks" which is also like just let us fight fun bosses which rhe tank is lmao.

[restive river]

I haven’t played dynasty warriors but from what I’ve seen it’s easier than Warframe

Like just cause Warframe is a power fantasy does not mean we won’t be challenged
It absolutely falls into power fantasy that we can, if we want to, single handedly take on a tank

[graceful swan]

I wish we got an RPG outside 1999

[restive river]

Like we literally grab the tank’s gun and make it shoot itself

[proper barn]

Depends like big enemies and stuff in that game are what's hard not jobbers which is the same for warframe exmius and high value characters.

[restive river]

And then proceed to destroy an even more powerful version of said tank

Like yes its difficult, yes thats still a power fantasy

[proper barn]

I think we agree.

[restive river]

Ye

[proper barn]

Yee

[restive river]

Easy =/= power fantasy

[graceful swan]

I still want an RPG outside of 1999

[restive river]

Ogris?

But also I agree, gimme the funny rpg that does damage cap

[graceful swan]

I bet DE would nerf it outside of 1999

[slow phoenix]

grendel didnt eat a planet, but he could if he wanted too

[restive river]

Idk bout that

Grendel’s powerful
Idk if he’s eating a planet in one bite powerful

[graceful swan]

Nothing has suggested Grendel can eat a planet who in the world gave you that impression?

[restive river]

If i had to guess
A loretuber

[brittle siren]

It's funny, for some reason "love" is always the "anti" element for most "Void" conceptual being in many fiction, like Marvel and now Warframe

[graceful swan]

I’m gonna feed Loretubers to Grendel

[brittle siren]

And tiktok/youtube comment

[restive river]

Now those he can eat

[slow phoenix]

pretty sure i've heard about it from somewhere else

[restive river]

Its less love is the anti to void for warframe more more love is the anti to indifference

[restive river]

If it wasn’t an in-game source I wouldn’t trust it.

[graceful swan]

Grendel eating Void when?

[restive river]

Put void instead of love
Tad tired sorry 😶

[brittle siren]

Also Albrect drop Tau in the quest highly suggest we will go there next after Void War

(I have too much copium)

[restive river]

Or that’s part of the void war

[brittle siren]

Even better

[restive river]

Which yes we are going to Tau next

It has been essentially confirmed by Drifter in Hex chats that Tau is what’s next

[brittle siren]

Also for some reason Albrecht believe Tau is his next destination

[restive river]

Why?
Idk
But yay for Tau!

[graceful swan]

I love to chant when I go to the Wally Void thing: Walking over the Great Indifference like it is my own domain Murmur giving chase as if they had a chance to play

[brittle siren]

Ah I forgot 1 thing
So Wally unable to actually touch anything (beside his "Murmur") physically, because he keep using other ppl to do that

I wonder if it because he missing a finger that cause this?

[graceful swan]

Blame Albrecht

[restive river]

Wdym unable to touch anything physically??

[brittle siren]

Is is Albrecht the one that give the idea to use the finger, or the other Orokin made him to invent stuff with that finger

[brittle siren]

I mean we never see him touch literally anyone

Beside when OP is in the Void

[restive river]

I mean I guess yeah but that’s cause we’re largely just seeing a manifestation

[lean garden]

not touching something =/= cant touch something

[graceful swan]

The finger dropped and he studied it

[brittle siren]

I came to that conclusion because until this day he always making deal and "use" someone body to do the job for him. Beside when he shaking our hand and Baro (and maybe Parvos), I never see he doing that outside the Void

[lean garden]

do you suppose he's just floating when he sits on your desk in the orbitor

[graceful swan]

Don’t certain things call us Void touched

[brittle siren]

Maybe? Ghost in fiction can touch object so maybe this is the same

[lean garden]

so he can touch things

[brittle siren]

Yeah but I mean touch and interact

[graceful swan]

Wally can interact with people

[brittle siren]

Like he can't just steal the Grimoire paper or type keyboard

[graceful swan]

Wally can also shake hands

[brittle siren]

Only 2 instances, us and Baro and both is in the Void

Idk Parvos have any deal but he did in the Void once

[graceful swan]

They never actually said where Baro was did they

[brittle siren]

He did, he said when he travel to the void

"As it happens, during my last foray into the Void, a dashing stranger presented me with the opportunity to refine all my selves into a single perfect individual. Of course, I shook hands on the deal immediately."

[graceful swan]

Baro really likes himself so much

[brittle siren]

Also unrelated but Drifter confirmed that Wally making out parent crazy

Before we thought it just void side effect

[graceful swan]

I wish we could get more chats

[brittle siren]

If everyone like the system they will add more perhaps

As far as I see a lot of us like it

Only those who don't care, or hate dating sims... hate it

Like bruh it's optional

[graceful swan]

They haven’t ran out of chats there’s 140k words worth of dialogue

[brittle siren]

It not gonna give you 1k plat

[brittle siren]

Not counting the dating chat in the backroom, and when you use emote with your date

[restive river]

I’m very tempted to reset chemistry when we get the chance just so I can experience more ngl

[graceful swan]

They added so much but at BF/Lover it just stops which I really think wastes the potential of it

[brittle siren]

DE please add a toggle (and some extra dialogue) that we can actually make the Hex hate you and reduce chemistry

[brittle siren]

I mean they just started making this

So ofc flaw is understandable

But even these is already packing

Coda lich is coming up and maybe DE still has things in store

[graceful swan]

Yeah but if I made it I’d make it not give chemistry at max but still allow chatting

[brittle siren]

Wait max chemistry stop chatting?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[brittle siren]

Yeah that kinda suck tbh

[restive river]

Why?
Be patient and wait for the reset lol

They designed the system so you can reset it later

[graceful swan]

DE really shouldn’t of blocked off chat at max

[brittle siren]

Ah no, I'm not wanting reset to zero
I want them to be able to hate me like in some dating sim game

Reduce the chemistry and have special dialogue like Quincy swear at me or Lettie ignore me etc

[restive river]

I don’t think DE wanted you to be able to reduce chemistry that way
So wait til next time and select options they won’t like if thats what you want to do

They already wrote out so much dialogue as is anyway

They clearly put a lot of thought into this

[brittle siren]

I mean yeah there is dialogue that make them angry
But it not like they hate me forever
What I want is like a "hardcore" KIM chat when if you make them mad too much they reduce chemistry and you can only wait for reset

I do understand the limitations

It just I want more spicy stuff

Drama

Also it's funny whenever you break up with someone they still saying the "goodbye friend" dialogue after leaving

[sly pagoda]

They probably didn’t want something where someone could lose chemistry by accident. Especially when leveling up Hex and the final mission good ending are behind “Liked”.

[brittle siren]

That's why I said the "toggle" part lmao

[old dome]

honestly?? i second this. i also want the drama of connecting to ppl & failing simply bc of how different everyone is.

lettie is allowed to be wary or even straight up hate eleanor for smth out of that woman's control but. the hex cant hate the mc? i get the whole point of this arc is love & empathy = empowerment against eldritch horrors but cmon... lets make the relationships more complex!!

gimme more miscommunications!!

[visual ermine]

That’s what we have Albrecht for.

King of miscommunication and toxic yaoi

[feral cape]

Good bot

[true bobcat]

Ordis is pleased to help the Operator!

[feral cape]

I didn't know he did that

[graceful swan]

Huh

[feral cape]

A guy sent a scam link bot deleted it

I said good bot and ordis said that

[graceful swan]

Lol

[glacial bough]

A very good bot

[glossy gazelle]

Indeed Ordis proving himself useful

[feral cape]

I came to this channel earlier with an actual thing to say and completely got side tracked by ordis

And I don't remember

[glossy gazelle]

Classic ordis

[graceful swan]

Ordis killer of memory

[twilit sand]

Did DE stop using this letter for some reason? (I'm not entirely sure if lore is the right channel for this question)

[restive river]

What letter is that?

[twilit sand]

th

[north jolt]

That's two letters

[restive river]

They mean the “th” sound

[twilit sand]

it's a single letter representing th

[restive river]

Since the orokin alphabet is phonetic

[north jolt]

So is it T or is it H? :v

[restive river]

Its the “th” sound.

[twilit sand]

the reason I ask is because a lot of things in the mall use "dh" for like "the"

[restive river]

I dont know if there’s an exact reason for why they’d use “dh” instead of “th”

[twilit sand]

fair enough. I just started learning the letters and wanted to use it in an art project, I just didn't want to be misinformed

[restive river]

I think you’d be fine using “th” tbh, but if its observed they use “dh” instead then maybe thats just how they write it?

[twilit sand]

yeah Idk loll

[copper mountain]

So this one’s a fun phonetics exercise! That letter, the “hard th” appears occasionally in all forms of Orokin script but nowhere near as frequently as the “soft th” character which you noted is used for things like “the” above.

This is because in English, we pronounce “th” in two ways, which means that for any phonetic analog language (like both types of Orokin) we would need two separate glyphs to represent those two sounds.

The “hard th” character is the “th” sound from words like “north” and “thick”. It is a hiss made without using your vocal chords.

The “soft th” or “dh” character is the “th” sound in words like “the” and “there”. It is like the “hard th” but you also use your vocal chords to add a little body to the sound.

My one note is that translating the “soft th” as “dh” is a decision many translation guides make that I would categorize as misleading; this is why I always write it as “dth” instead to indicate it’s status as a “th” sound. Hope that helps!

A quick way to test which character you should use is to see if saying the words requires you to use your vocal chords. It’s also far more common for the leading “th” to be a “dth” just because it sounds nicer.

[twilit sand]

yeah that does a lot... I was racking my brain as to when I would use "dh" regularly when writing. Like you could just use "d" at that point

that clears it up immensely

thank you very much

[low girder]

yo is there lore on how the orbiter flys?

[graceful swan]

No, but Ordis controlls it and is the reason enemies can't see it

It doesn't fly much btw

If ever

That's what the landing craft is for

[restive river]

Doesn’t it go where we go?
We wouldn’t get different skyboxes when we return If it didn’t move at all

[graceful swan]

Yeah maybe it goes in a general area afterwards

It is usually floating in orbit hence its name

[restive river]

Yeah thats what I mean

Its called the orbiter for a reason lol

[pseudo edge]

Guys since you're smarter than me
What's the relationship between the infestation and the murmur/Wally?

Through OnLyne's songs, it makes me think they're not very friendly towards each other

[restive river]

The infestation seems to be afraid of it from what we’ve seen

[graceful swan]

Infestatation fear anything void touched/related

[low girder]

isnt the landing craft the orbiter?

[restive river]

No

[pseudo edge]

"I fear nothing but the void demon"

[pseudo edge]

It's part of it
The thing you play with on the loading screen

[restive river]

The orbiter houses our arsenal
The landing craft is the smaller ship we can customize

[graceful swan]

Landing craft is the ship you fly to missions Orbiter is the thing with Navigation codex and the like

[restive river]

The landing craft is actually the part up the ramp with the orbiter being everything below, including the ramp

You can see the separation the best in the drifter camp

[pseudo edge]

I just wonder how the Skaut fit

[restive river]

Carefully

[pseudo edge]

Fair enough

[graceful swan]

Isn't that only due to Orbiter being submerged not how it actually is

[restive river]

I’m pretty sure thats just how it actually is

Cause while we do have concept art that is what we actually see in-game

[twilit sand]

now... the railjack...

[restive river]

What about it?

[twilit sand]

nothing in particular, I was just joking

[restive river]

Oh lol

[humble sierra]

The landing craft has the navigation, codex, market, communication, etc.

Everything below the ramp is the Orbiter

[restive river]

Exactly

Literally just look at the drifter camp lol

[old dome]

yeah but thats w him & his own family + he isnt all friends w the drifter so... idk. all im saying is that relationships w others arent smooth sailing all the time!!!

[sage moat]

What are the quills. Like. Are they robots. What's going on there.

[restive river]

Not robots

Secretive and respected, the Quills are the Unum's closest adherents. Strange and reserved, their bond to her and each other makes for a strange relationship with causality.

[sage moat]

I see, thank you

Also didn't know the unum used she/her. Good for her

[restive river]

Ye

She also used to be in a relationship with Gara

Canonical lesbian tower

[sage moat]

Ah yes, the 3 open world syndicates:
Lesbian Meat Tower Worship
Headless Space Union
Nerd Family

I would make a joke about the duviri syndicate...

[restive river]

Yeah :D

[sage moat]

https://tenor.com/view/if-i-had-one-angry-yelling-fairly-odd-parents-mr-turner-gif-16322274

[restive river]

if we had one

LOL

We also got
Trauma ghosts
Proto-furries
Hexycule

[sage moat]

Idk why people call those "pseudo open worlds"

[restive river]

They arent lol

[sage moat]

5 big but self contained maps isn't an open world its just a banger update

[restive river]

They are made to be explored though

Tbh I kinda prefer them over the open world formula, feels more tied to the rest of Warframe

[sage moat]

I disagree on reason of duviri

Open worlds can go hard if they have cool side objectives like duviri

But to make PoE, OV, and CD good they'd have to completely Rework them and their syndicates

[restive river]

Oh Duviri changes the formula enough, I love it

Dont get me wrong, I love the open worlds
I just think its good they changed the formula

I love Duviri the most tho

[sage moat]

I think the solution is to give short term rewards to conservation, fishing, and mining and k drive races. Maybe repurpose the decree system or give temporary stat boosts for the mission when you do it. Idk. I like the idea of the open worlds more than the "big maps" of the latest 3 updates. I just want there to be actual things to do in them 😭

[sly pagoda]

they might be solidified trauma void ghosts but if they add romance to other syndicates in the future, I have a smooch reserved for Yonta.

[dawn citrus]

Ticker.

[proper barn]

She is a great choice.

[restive river]

Same here

[sly pagoda]

you know I wonder if Amir will remember ||his hacker spike after the drifter used transference in the good reactor ending||

[proper barn]

Idk amir does but a few of the do mention that stuff. Also the rank 4 conversation with everyone mentions the finale.

[hushed parcel]

why did Wally say this

he didnt give Drifter the powers though?

[glacial bough]

He's talking about the Op there

Drifter is piggybacking off of Op powers

[hushed parcel]

yea but telling that to Drifter tho

[glacial bough]

It's still relevant to them

[left oyster]

When the hell did this happen?

[restive river]

New info

We had a sibling
Sounds like they died

[proper barn]

yeah

this is what i was talking about.

[alpine swallow]

I assume it could be related to the parents going mad and slaughtering everyone, but there's a part of me that wonders if that bit of trivia is shared between Operator and Drifter, or if Drifter is possibly just referring to the deal that left them stranded in duviri.

[lean garden]

All the events up to the deal itself are shared between drifter and operator

[tall echo]

It's called a parazon

[slow phoenix]

the circled bit is the landing craft

[sly pagoda]

the orbiter is pretty big

unsure how much habitable space it has vs what we see in game. It could have more and since its not needed for gameplay we just never see it

[peak ether]

Wow the concept looks nothing like the one in the drifter camp

[sly pagoda]

the one in the camp is only part of it

Ordis mentions something like "Reintegration complete" near the end of TNW.

which says to me maybe all of the habitable unit of the orbiter can disconnect from the star drive section.

[lean garden]

actually everything but the bit circled in red can be seen in drifter's camp

[peak ether]

Interesting

[raw stone]

The rest is probably just the fuel exhausts

We do also see part of that chin part which holds the landing craft

[humble sierra]

You can also go underneath the map and see almost all of it

[slow phoenix]

they should let us see the orbiter while we're in the railjack like how we can see the railjack from the orbiter

[graceful swan]

One-sided window maybe

[frosty latch]

Why does stalker hate the tenno so much?

[slow phoenix]

Because we killed the orokin and he served them

He doesn't hate us as much now though

[graceful swan]

Literally in the Second Dream intro lol

Hunhow: "Who destroyed the Orokin? Your way of life? Who do you hunt Shadow, to cleanse your despair in their blood?"

Stalker: "Tenno."

[cunning tapir]

if I had to describe the relationship status between the stalker and the tenno. it would have to be the most platonic form of "it's complicated"

[dawn citrus]

Frenemies

[unique sorrel]

WOAH, TIL

[fathom elbow]

Ok so just to make sure
Alad v isnt orokin
Hunhow was like someone who just woke up from a 2 day nap and had no idea who anyone was

[graceful swan]

Bit of Hunhow advice he sees anyone who isn't with him or a Sentient as Orokin

[fathom elbow]

He did call his son a dax
So i get it

I know it wasnt but i like thinking hunhow called erra a slur

Nothing was edited here dont worry about it

[tall echo]

He called him a servant of the enemy

[fathom elbow]

Just head canon
Nothing more

[old dome]

just old man things yk?

grandpa behavior

[fathom elbow]

Ah yes
The centuries old grandpa old war tales after drinking too much kuva during tennobaum

[frosty latch]

But, we saved his child, no?

[lean garden]

thats like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after

[silk atlas]

And that totally makes up for us destroying his entire way of life :)

[lean garden]

we didnt save nothin for stalker for quite a very long while

[graceful swan]

1000+ years after his grudge started, yeah

[north jolt]

Jade's Shadow spoilers: ||Okay so something mentioned Jade's baby and how it might have a VERY slow and gradual growth, in the 1999 chat and that got me thinking. If that ends up being true, what if the baby, once grown up, ends up replacing Stalker who might die in some way on or off screen, and we (tenno/drifter) end up meeting an adult version of them at some point in the future?||

[dawn citrus]

||Adult Sorren Jr would be super cool, personally I think it would be cool if the baby grew into a usable Warframe.||

[old dome]

^^^^

when & how & why did umbra start suspecting ballas and investigating him?? ik he found out abt ballas' defection but like. how did that come to be?

why? as a dax he practically had no reason to suspect ballas... and yet.

[dawn citrus]

As a Dax he watched Ballas be evil and awful for a thousand years

[limber pulsar]

ballas was never exactly subtle

[proper barn]

Umbra found the Orokin Ipad

That we find in his cell.

[tough ether]

i'm kinda confused is proto frames body flesh mixed with steel?

[graceful swan]

Imagine a Warframe that takes off their helmet and can talk that’s a protoframe

[tough ether]

i'm just so confused cuz just had conversation with Eleanor if she and quincy slept. And now confused HOW

[proper barn]

So are warframes.

they just don''t have heads you can see and they are like wiped of memeroies and things.

[proper barn]

Quincy says he is "packing still". We don't know how we probably won't.

[tough ether]

i didn't know i find out this way

[proper barn]

lmao

[tough ether]

Thanks tho!

[proper barn]

Anyway Yeah

warframes are flesh turned Steel that is a qoute

from the sacirifce which you haft to had played.

“We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became Infested……but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command.”

[tough ether]

i see, i kinda geeked into game lore after 800 hours and wondering is duvuri exist purely out of drifter emotions?

[proper barn]

Yes.

it's based on a book but yes it is made by the drifter and their emotions.

[tough ether]

Thats so cool tho

[proper barn]

skin turned into sword steel is said.

smile.

[tough ether]

is infested caused warframes?

[proper barn]

You have the helminth

what

[tough ether]

like nidus

[proper barn]

Okay the orokin made the warframes by taking a specific strain of infested and basiclly domesticizing it.

That is the helminth that we have in our orbiter

and even in 1999s backrooms.

Wait have you gotten the helminth Segment?

[proper barn]

Nidus is still a person made into a warframe it's just more a pronouced outward ifnestation.

[tough ether]

OHH

[graceful swan]

All frames are human

[tough ether]

yes yes

[tough ether]

Kullervo and Xaku too?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[proper barn]

okay the helminth is the strain/thing that makes the warframe out of people. or did we aren't stealing people now.

ALSO KULLERVO WE KNOW WAS A PERSON.

Like he was one of the 1st gen warframes.

before they where made into less sentient things.

[graceful swan]

Xaku is a combination of 3 humans that were turned into frames

[tough ether]

How he end up in duvuri tho

[proper barn]

Ballas stabbed him and threw him in.

[tough ether]

IS THAT WHY THEIR PRONOUCE THEY THEM

[graceful swan]

Yes

[proper barn]

That's what his crimes says.

[tough ether]

OHHH

[proper barn]

No don't have that

reaction stop.

[graceful swan]

Didnt he blow himself into Duviri

[proper barn]

Singular people are also they/them. the drifter and operator it's said in 1999 that like gender isn't a real thing for them.

[tough ether]

I see that cool of DE

[proper barn]

no?

[graceful swan]

How does a person arrive as a ball of fire if it wasn’t an explosion

[proper barn]

"As the Empire burned, you found the one Executor you coveted and despised most. You presumed to raise your foul hand against him. One of the Seven. But he did not die so readily as you had hoped. Thus I lay upon your wretched head your ultimate crime: Attempted Regicide. And with it your punishment, and the Executor's eternal vengeance." I just assumed since this was attemped

Ballas like threw him into the void or something.

[proper barn]

OH A EXPLOSION maybe?

[graceful swan]

Maybe Ballas blew him up

[proper barn]

I mean Lotus also comes into Duviri

in a ball of fire to be fair.

[graceful swan]

Was that a ball of fire

We didn’t see it did we

[proper barn]

it left a crater

i feel like that is a ball of fire.

[tough ether]

im so lost is lotus 3 diffrent people?

[graceful swan]

No

[proper barn]

no

yeah. She is a mimic.

with 3 distinc personalities.

[tough ether]

A MIMIC

[graceful swan]

3 names is different than being 3 people

[proper barn]

WE KNEW THIS SHE IS A MIMIC QUEEN. YOU FIGHT THE MIMICS IN THE SACRIFICE.

i'm tackling you

[graceful swan]

A person can be given 3 names but still be 1 person

[proper barn]

i'm not actually upset or anything

that just was funny to say.

[graceful swan]

Just disappointed?

[tough ether]

giggles yall got me geeking

[proper barn]

no

[tough ether]

also why teshin like dead but not dead?

[proper barn]

they care about the lore.

[graceful swan]

He didn’t die

[proper barn]

cuz he fell into the void.

Like that teshin that falls into the void in the new war is that teshin in duviri.

[tough ether]

NOO HE GOT OLD

[proper barn]

the lotus hand in duviri is like what we regrow Lotus from in the new war.

he talks about it even.

[graceful swan]

Dunno why everyone thinks there’s 2 Teshin when nothing suggests it

[proper barn]

he goes "oh i had on this viel and then i fell intot he void"

he shows us the Narmer veil and flag and everything.

[tough ether]

then what the dark teshin in relay's?

[proper barn]

just a hologram

[tough ether]

ohh explains

[proper barn]

cuz we don't have normal teshin in the relays.

[tough ether]

BTW ABOUT RELAYS

[graceful swan]

Wally and Baro caused that

[proper barn]

oh balors used to destory relays.

[tough ether]

Wally is men in the walls?

[proper barn]

They don't anymore.

Yes.

Wally man in the wall the Indifference.

[tough ether]

how come baro survive in the void bringing goodies

[proper barn]

Inaros prime helps him.

you can even do it if you have a Inaros prime.

[graceful swan]

Because he isn’t bothering Wally he’s getting things to sell to Wallys favourite children

[proper barn]

it's actually what i said.

[tough ether]

hehehe

[tough ether]

so wally just let that slide

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[tough ether]

wally chill dayum

[graceful swan]

Wally and Baro even made a deal

[copper mountain]

Also remember that Baro canonically has a deal with Wally; it’s how the PlayStation and Xbox versions of him got deleted

[tough ether]

the one letting console players trade with pc one?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[tough ether]

i love de sm

[graceful swan]

Thats also why some relays blew up

[tough ether]

they just did?

[graceful swan]

When Crossplay launched

The relays blew up

[tough ether]

hmm

i'm curious what void is

and why zariman only half in it

[proper barn]

no it just changed

which one where blew on on console and PC.

Cuz each platform had the same amount of exploded relays

they where just in different places.

[tough ether]

my ps4 used to blow up cuz of warframe

[proper barn]

lmao

[tough ether]

do we even know who is a wally?

[proper barn]

it's the indifference.

it's the man in the wall. first seen by Albretch when he first went to the void.

WRONG DISCORD

[tough ether]

I SAW

[proper barn]

my bad.

I mean you can

it doesn't matter i just didn't think it was here.

But it is has a lot of cool lore in it that we didn't know.

[tough ether]

i like reading em messages

Arthur mad at me for romancing aoi :(

bro telling me go back to future

[old dome]

?????? wasnt he stabbed in the chest????

[graceful swan]

You’re asking that yet you witnessed 3 other characters get stabbed and not die

[slow phoenix]

||were they drifter, operator and ballas?||

[graceful swan]

Drifter Operator and Lotus hand

The hand being part of Lotus

Surprisingly survived

Eventually rebuilding the actual character

[slow phoenix]

i mean, i dont think lotus was stabbed until the end on new war

[graceful swan]

Lotus still got stabbed

And didn’t die

[slow phoenix]

i dont think it counts if they're robots

unless sentients like lotus have vital stuff in their torso

[graceful swan]

It still counts

[tough ether]

3RD PERSON ALIVE???

[graceful swan]

She got stabbed with the Sentient killer

So it definitely counts

[slow phoenix]

if you mean ||ballas he survived getting stabbed by us and umbra in the sacrifice, but got sentient'd or something and lived||

[tough ether]

WHAT

[slow phoenix]

where are you in the story

[tough ether]

i did all quests

[slow phoenix]

then why are you shocked at that?

[limber pulsar]

well ballas survived being stabbed in the sacrifice (with a makeover) but hes dead for good with the new war

[slow phoenix]

yeah lotus sucked out his soul

pretty much

[old dome]

...well. true. i just never really thought abt how teshin got into duviri—in my brain he just did, somehow.

[slow phoenix]

to be fair, teshin has his skull crushed, he wasnt stabbed

[graceful swan]

He was thrown in

[tough ether]

ooh i thought he is like

DEAD DEAD

[slow phoenix]

he is

[old dome]

the same way lotus' hand got thrown into the void & to duviri... somehow.

[slow phoenix]

ballas is no more, good riddance

[graceful swan]

Went with her

[limber pulsar]

warframe characters come back from the dead all the time but he had such a big thematic conclusion i dont see them ever actually bringing him back

[slow phoenix]

when we (the operator) were thrown into the void, we went into the zariman to relive the incident, and teshin and the lotus' hand went into duviri

also after new war i'm PRETTY SURE ballas somehow got to duviri too, as kullervo's warden

[limber pulsar]

nope, thats just a duviri void manifestation recreation, still technically alive, but not the ballas we knew

[slow phoenix]

ok good i dont have to go to duviri to stab him again

[graceful swan]

Conceptual Embodiment

[proper barn]

lotus did "died"

sentient death is different than normal humand death.

[slow phoenix]

yeah lotus died but drifter brought her back with archon shards

[proper barn]

from a hand.

But yeah. also all the archons are deadwarframes and sentients combined.

[slow phoenix]

are they prime warframes or normal ones?

[proper barn]

prime

loki rhino mag

[slow phoenix]

imagine if one was excalibur prime, and there was a 0.1 percent chance of getting an excalibur prime blueprint from them

[graceful swan]

She also did get stabbed and survive

In the final fight

[slow phoenix]

she sucked out ballas' ability to survive getting stabbed

[graceful swan]

It’s not about the how it’s the fact she actually didn’t die straight after getting stabbed

[tall echo]

Well ballas barely survived it, the sentients had to amalgamate him to keep him alive

[proper barn]

SHE DID THOUGH

HUNHOW SAYS SHE DIED she is a Eidolon for WHILE

[tall echo]

She didn't die to the stab at the end of tnw.

Eidolons aren't immortal you know

[graceful swan]

I’m not saying she didn’t die at all

[proper barn]

eidolons are dead

The eidolons on cetus are basiclly zombies.

[graceful swan]

I’m saying she is 1 of 3 characters that got stabbed and didn’t instantly die in Duviri and New War timeframe

[tall echo]

Eidolons are undead, but they can still be killed

Vomvalysts

[graceful swan]

Her hand did also survive getting stabbed

[quiet narwhal]

@dawn citrus since you mentioned him trying to badly fix his mess in gen chat,

Albrecht like a majority of other Orokin, is a bad person. He is at least trying to keep the universe alive but literally only so he can find Tau like the other Golden Lords even he somewhat idolized. Hence "Tau is in sight" near the end of 1999

He's doing everything for pretty selfish reasons, at least his actions seem that way with how he's trying to fix it

[dawn citrus]

yeh hes pretty average Orokin. lets just say i dont fault the tenno for their past.

this is my clan message. (our name is Defiance)
it adequatly describes my feelings

[quiet narwhal]

I mean, you can't blame the tenno, they wanted to survive a traumatic experience, and the drifter was stuck in a void memory of a story that got realized by them facing endless death

[proper barn]

it didn't turn into endless death till later

also duviri was a prison made by the Drifter themselves.

[quiet narwhal]

Yeah, memories mixed with the void

Of the story of Duviri

[dawn citrus]

Prison, way to stay alive/saneish... same diff lol

[proper barn]

not memories

just emotion and what they wanted.

But The drifter talks about this in the messages in 1999

[quiet narwhal]

The drifter themselves mentions in KIM that it's a mix of memories and emotions

[proper barn]

and how like it's kind their fault

that Duviri like is the way it is

and it's their fault duviri killed them over and over.

[dawn citrus]

yeh, its trauma manifesting.

the desire for Duviri to end manifested as attempts to escape and endless death

[quiet narwhal]

Yeah, and I thought that was because of their memory of the story manifesting in the void, them taking it literally leading to the endless death alongside being worsened by their traumatic emotions they felt on the Zariman

At least that was my impression

[proper barn]

To talk about this Albretch didn't actually like any other orokin. We don't know why he wants to go to tau. we still don't realy know why Albretch went to 1999. Also He might be being taken over by wally maybe IT'S VERY CONFUSING also yeah all the hex hate him for a reason he's kinda terrible in his own way.

Like

it really makes sense why they all hate him and why Tagfer hates him.

[quiet narwhal]

Oh he didn't like other Orokin? I probably misremembered a few lore tablets

I should stop reading them late at night

[proper barn]

Yeah he was pretty otricised

[dawn citrus]

Going to Tau was the end goal for the orokin nobles as a society

[proper barn]

HMMMMMMMMM kinda.

[dawn citrus]

they sent the Sentients there as scouts and terraformers iirc

[proper barn]

Yeah and the zariman was before that

[dawn citrus]

Just expansion of their empire then?

there was societal effort put in it seems is my point

[proper barn]

well they want to get out of the normal solar system

cuz the sun will explode maybe

So they wanna have somewhere to go.

[quiet narwhal]

And with continuity, even billions of years can feel short when you live essentially forever. But with Albrecht swearing off continuity, it makes me thinks there's another, more important reason to go to Tau

[proper barn]

I mean

maybe but we don't know.

It might have some way to beat wally idk.

[dawn citrus]

my thoery is... Albrecht discovered the Tenno couldnt die, and wants to REPLACE continuity

[proper barn]

No.

He isn't the queens.

[woven coyote]

Really not much of a theory

[proper barn]

also we have no edvince of that.

[woven coyote]

Really dont think albrecht was literally wanting to go to tau

I think he either wanted to appear as a villain to unite us and the hex against a common foe

Or it is a hint

[proper barn]

also that

[quiet narwhal]

Then what did he mean when he said "Tau is in sight." to the Drifter?

[proper barn]

it might be idk.

could be anything.

[woven coyote]

Loid's line about albrechts cryptic instructions really makes me not wanna take things word for word

I think there might be more to that reactor than just average nuclear reactor

[dawn citrus]

Doesnt Albrecht mention he just needs a high energy source and the bomb is the only thing in 1999 with enough enrgy or something similar?

[quiet narwhal]

Yeah, especially considering only when it was about to blow, the Murmur showed up, but that could be Wally being Wally. It's hard to define the motives of what's essentially an Eldritch being for Warframe

[dawn citrus]

You and Lettie agree on this

[woven coyote]

Like a lot of people think entropy means chaos but its closer to a state with many possibilities

The line about tau
The line about the reactor having a rare energy in the time
And the archon shards description about anti entropic energy make me really skeptical about the idea that , albrecht just wants to travel to tau

[quiet narwhal]

Whar

[woven coyote]

Not high
Rare

[dawn citrus]

in her chats she says something like "You cant know the motivations of a god"

[proper barn]

lettie likens Wally to a eldich evil god.

[quiet narwhal]

Huh, didn't get that chatlog

[woven coyote]

Void having the property of many possibilites

Archon shards being opposed to that
The reactor line, the tau line, and shard description

Now what does that sound like to you?

[quiet narwhal]

Sounds like nothing, my brain is not very smart

[proper barn]

yeah just tell me what you mean

[woven coyote]

The recator probably has anti entropic energy instead of just being your good old nuclear reactor

Is what i think that was all about

[dawn citrus]

antientropic could juts means it resist thermal/energetic decay too

[woven coyote]

Instead of just "lol lets go to tau"

[woven coyote]

High thermal energy means highly excited atoms
Which means the material has many possibilities for its state because the attoms are buzzing around

It is still the same meaning just different levels of technicality on the explanation

[dawn citrus]

could also mean the shards could "gain order" over time rather than the system becoming more chaotic, gaining energy in a localized system rather than losing it.

trying to word that in a way that makes sens was hard and made it worse it hink

also could just mean they never lose energy and stay at a single state forever

[quiet narwhal]

Well, realistically, the more energy there is, the more chaotic the atoms move, wouldn't that lead to less control?

[dawn citrus]

it would make entropic reactions happen faster yes

but im trying to visualize "anti-entropy"

whatever the hell that measn lol

[quiet narwhal]

Yeah, I'm probably not the best to talk about this because I know next to nothing about how it'd work

[dawn citrus]

this one is probably it

immortality crystal basically lol

[north jolt]

Afaik its never really explained how Umbra actually uncovered Ballas's scheme. Only that he did, and then Ballas found out he got found out by Umbra

[north jolt]

Maybe, but I thought all the Kullervo stuff in Duviri was ALSO based on the Drifter's memories? cause I wouldn't be surprised if Kullervo's imprisonment and execution was highly publicized at the time to "set an example"

[proper barn]

the zariman was YEARS before the warframes where made @north jolt

[north jolt]

Oh right

[north jolt]

I recall 1999 being chosen specifically because it was the furthest point into the pass he could reliably travel too. Anything further back being "unstable", whatever that means.

[sage moat]

Amir calls the parazon the "wacky hacky 9000"

This is crucial to understanding the lore

[proper barn]

true

[lean garden]

But can you back this up?

[north jolt]

Maybe? I'll have to find the specific dialogue where he mentions it but I forgot which audiolog it was specifically

[craggy girder]

How does duviri weather work

Is it a actual person with their moods controlling the weather

[humble sierra]

Yeah, the mood spirals are based on Thrax’s moods or perhaps the Drifter’s

[tall echo]

Thrax

[north jolt]

Well there are several characters (they're names escape me right now) who's moods also correlate with the cycle. The angry dude, the paranoid chick, the happy girl, the envious guy etc

Dominus Thrax himself least during the quest seems more, apathetic then anything. Maybe a bit contemptuous and sadistic towards you

[high bay]

Power scaling krestion: who’s more edgy, Hunhow or AM from I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream?

[north jolt]

AM

Hunhow actually ends up chilling a tiny bit as the story goes on and even helps you during New War. AM was never the least bit helpful or merciful like that

[humble sierra]

They’re not in control of Duviri, they’re the ones affecting Thrax’s emotion, or at least representing the emotional shift.

[north jolt]

Yes

[high bay]

Okay, give both a relatively person sized form befitting them, who’s winning a fist fight?

[north jolt]

I mean technically Hunhow has more actual war experience where AM more like a sadistic torturer, but has never actually had to go up against someone posing even a mild threat to him so

Its like comparing a veteran to a school ground bully IMO

[high bay]

AM killed all of humanity except for five people. AM was built from the ground up to wage war

But yeah I see your point of how Hunhow would absolutely bully and humble AM

[north jolt]

Yeah but AM also had control over entire nuclear arsenals. He never REALLY waged war (least not after the fusion) but more so just committed genocide against the human race. Which Hunhow has also tried to do TBF, but has spent more time actually fighting in wars too against his most powerful adversaries, the tenno

Like warframe/tenno vs. sentient (even Hunhow) is a WAY more fair fight then the surviving humans vs AM

Also only semi-related to lore, but WHERE or HOW do I actually find Entrati's notes about his experiments in the sanctum anatomica?

[sage moat]

I'd just like to note that archon shards are time travel gems

[tall echo]

By killing the whispers

[north jolt]

Wait really? well I already killed a bunch of them so, then what?

[tall echo]

They drop the fragments

That's it

[sage moat]

"Anti-entropic"
They reverse entropy. As in, they could reverse most quantum actions and chemical actions. Not only could they create an endless motion machine they could probably make a time machine as well- but.
Anti-entropic could just mean they themselves aren't subject to entropy so they could be Eternal Rocks (not to be confused with Eternalism Rock, the orokin equivalent of Christian rock)

[north jolt]

But how do I actually read the fragments? do I have to go to my codex?

[tall echo]

fragments

[sage moat]

Yes

[north jolt]

Thank you

[north jolt]

Also makes sense, you think they are what powers the time travel itself?

I mean like the devices or machines used for time travel

[sage moat]

Given that you get archon shards from albrechts labs, I wouldn't be surprised if he had somehow discovered them in the origin system and used them to power his time machine. Though I could also see that being a game play contrivance and "anti-entropic radiation" just being some funky science words DE slapped together to sound impressive

[limber pulsar]

technobabble is the oldest and most important sci fi tradition

[north jolt]

That is true. Though breaking it down entomologically (I can use big words too!) the implication is that somehow these shards generate more energy then they lose or decays, which would explain how they also make our warframes (and sentients) more powerful. I don't think there's a lot of lore on where the shards actually come from though is there?

[sage moat]

I believe it's stated they originated in Tau

They can heal sentients, they're from tau, they can empower... whatever, it seems like

Archons, sentients, warframes. We've covered every box there of "robot", "literally a person", and "robot person"

[sage moat]

Etymologically*

Entomology is bugs 🐛

[north jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

[feral cape]

Am

[feral cape]

I mean am might just be a more sophisticated ai unless your name is Kratos it's really hard to hit a guy who can see every possible move you could take

In terms of sentient ai the sentients might be the least smart of them compared to alot of other media

Them or maybe like the halo ai im not sure what they do since apparently there's books and comics for halo

[feral cape]

Or de thought the word looked cool and didn't put much thought into it

[sage moat]

Scroll down

[feral cape]

There's the fact that the railjack uses anti entropic radiation

And some other funky thing I forgor

A hypothetically material

Orgone

[slim epoch]

So since some 1999 lines mention orokin/entrati tech being "real gold" we can reasonably assume that the rest of the orokin tech follows suit. Which means that likely the Orokin have perfected Particle Accelerators or some other method of combining particles to get more gold than naturally exists in the universe... Just for Lua's rings.

Tryna be vague on the 1999 thing

[feral cape]

They have transmutation

[feral cape]

Oh hey this stuff is anti entropic

Good on de for the consistency

[sage moat]

That is cool yeah. I also appreciate the realistic accuracy of scientists being bad at naming things

Namely, "Orgone"
We already have Argon. WY name something Orgone. Do you want to confuse people

[feral cape]

I mean it's because orgone is a real hypothetical thing

And argon is just a real thing

[chrome rivet]

So according to one KIM chat with Lettie, there could be more Protoframes out there????

[restive river]

Makes sense there were more than 6 batches

Plus we know more are coming

Do you have a pic of the chat tho :O

[chrome rivet]

It was on reddit. Someone posted it.

Its basically about Lettie telling how she ended up meeting Entrati and becoming a Protoframe

Supposedly, the Doc was giving vaccines for the Techrot

But said vaccines were actually the formula to turn people into Protoframes

[lean garden]

Damnit readit, can they just learn to read???

The vaccines arent the things that turned people into protoframes

Thats literally in the next sentence lettie had

Entrati gave the group of them something extra after the vaccine

[chrome rivet]

Well, I haven't gotten the actual chat

But I look forward to reading it

[sterile ore]

Funnily enough the Legacytes can have skills from…

Styanax, Yareli, Saryn, Ash, Chroma and Garuda

Oh and two Nidus abilities

So I think you could take from that that those batches of frames had already been introduced to the Techrot strain

[proper barn]

No in the mission it says the infested learn from us just being there.

[sterile ore]

Oooo I’d need to 👀 it again

[dire mountain]

Why are you breaking it down with bugs

Its etymology not entomology 😭

Damn someone beat me to it

[old dome]

ETERNALISM ROCKBCKSNXNSNNFS ngl i'd listen to that. octavia covering flyleaf's songs when??

[old dome]

i mean... albrecht is an orokin through & through. it stands to reasonable assumptions that he'd pull a ballas & make more than 6 to go fight an eldritch horror beyond human comprehension.

[north jolt]

Because Warframe is all about bugs

[sage moat]

Around 1/5 of all warframes are bugs according to my very loose standards

[graceful swan]

I wonder if the ideas for a frame was ever made due to bugs

[median shell]

why was a cephalon made of loid? and how come there are 2 personalities to the cephalon versionm

[silk atlas]

Otak was a seperate one before Infested got to him and needed to be transplanted into Loid.

[graceful swan]

Loid was the original Necraloid was made after to help around the house

And something else you might not have yet

[craggy girder]

||is the drifter stuck in 1999||

[graceful swan]

Nope they can leave whenever they want

[craggy girder]

Oh nice

[raw stone]

Wait fr

Oh is this because they now control the timeloop?

[graceful swan]

They solved the trapping pretty much

[raw stone]

Ah

[graceful swan]

Stopping them dying let them be free

Why though may still be a mystery

[raw stone]

Hmn. I just thought ||the end of the hex quest with the duviri fist as I call it, meant they controlled it.|| if not, then I'd like to know. But I haven't even heard a sniff, a sneef, or a snoff about any lore bits dropped in the update's contents.

Outside of the information laid out for the quest itself

Maybe I missed some info because I really didn't grill my time out from the hex.

[graceful swan]

Arthur asks why we still stay when we can leave whenever we want also think Eleanor can ask it too

Maybe next update we leave and it gives the proper exploration why we can

[inner halo]

||Drifter can also canonically bring the Hex to the future for short periods of time through transference (presumably as an in lore nod to the Gemini skins).||

I assume it works ||the same way as it does as always. Only the operator or the drifter can be in Reality at one time, so the other gets sent to the Zariman/Duviri/1999.||

[lusty drift]

so is the hex like the finale of the story?

[graceful swan]

No, Warframe is a live service game

[proper barn]

Did you play the finale In 1999? Cuz it ends on a cliffhanger.

[lusty drift]

i did and i played the good ending too

[proper barn]

Thats the good ending

[lusty drift]

ah then yes i did

[stiff fable]

DE has mentioned that they have plans for the next five years of Warframe. The Hex Finale is the last currently available story quest, but we'll see where the story is going to go next at Tennocon.

[woven coyote]

Really curious what sorta stuff we will get in between

[stiff fable]

Yeah same. Probably looking at another prime and one new frame

[woven coyote]

Hopefully new gamemode

Ohhhh maybe a 1999 operation

[restive river]

I’d love a 1999 operation

I’ve seen the idea of an infested carnival thrown around which would be cool

[stiff fable]

1999 is missing traditional defense/mobile defense missions

[silk atlas]

Good.

[sage moat]

Oberon players in shambles

[silk atlas]

Good.

[sage moat]

Someone in region chat, for once, brought up a decent point

Did entrati's plan require/account for rell holding back the indifference for like. A long time

[old dome]

GOOD. I WANNA MOVE!!! i dont wanna afk w koumei any more than i already do 😭😭

[old dome]

idt so,,, i dont think anyone knew rell was even doing that,, outside of the red veil

[proper barn]

Oberon is always in shambles

He's the worst support.

[sage moat]

Oberon Rework 2025 I believe

[proper barn]

Also frost is like good now.

Like his globe is also not annoying now.

So he's like one of the best frames again. Oberon needs something.

[proper barn]

I feel like we just tweak some numbers and he's okay he's just really old.

Like frost is really old he just got a face lift.

Oberon isn't like chroma or something where he will never be good/needs a full rework.

Oberon just needs some number buffs and tweaks.

[sage moat]

True.
I could say some drastic like "make reckoning full armor strip at 100% instead of 200%" or "remove the need for the carpet" but I won't
I'll just imply it

[proper barn]

Lul

[tall echo]

Tbf endless capture is basically mobile defense but worse

[frigid sparrow]

this really is familiar

[frigid sparrow]

"Back to his laboratory outside of the Void, he sensed his flesh lacerated by the broken glass. No longer having his voice or sight, he cut his hand with a broken seriglass shard, and with his own blood wrote for his daughter to close the wall, as he sensed the other was there, reaching out. His daughter complied, deactivating the gate while severing one or multiple of the Void entity's fingers in the process" entrati's page on the warframe wiki

[old dome]

or multiple... interesting

[proper barn]

You can speed up kalaymos

[molten rune]

So I was researching some lore regarding the infestation, and came across operation: tubemen of regor. supposedly, tyl regor created a cure for the infestation, and with the help of the tenno, alad v, who was infested at the time, took it, causing his infestation to recede, and become pretty much unnoticeable.

this made me wonder about something specifc regarding this "cure."

if you were to get this cure and use it on the entrati, would it cause their infestation to recede, and allow them more freedom? i think this would be complicated as its a different strain, and also a lot more progressed than what alad v had. however, the cure might just work on the techrot and the hex members, specifically with eleanor and her tongue, allowing her to speak normally again without having to tear out her tongue every single time. how much it would cure is unknown, but it might be a huge help towards allowing the hex members to have more comfort in their situation, especially quincy, who openly talks about his fears of being fully consumed by the infestation, and becoming just like one of the warframes the drifter/operator uses. of course using a mass produced cure to safely stop the techrot would just cause another break in the timeline, but it means that in at least one world, humans would no longer need to worry about techrot. maybe, with the threat no longer there, they could advance even more than they did in the regular timeline, and MAYBE reach tau.

the only issue with getting this cure is getting tyl regor to agree to letting the tenno have the formula. this is where i propose a new operation.

Operation: Gene Splice (name not finalized)

essentially, in exchange for the formula for the cure to the infestation, tyl regor requires that we help him in return. what he wants is a genetic material for stronger molds. we help him and get the cure, but unbeknownst to him, we edit the genes in such a way that the grineer come out more often with a defective obedience gene.

we get the formula, and by the time tyl regor figures out what we did, it is too late.

[glacial bough]

Tyl only had a cure for Clone Rot. We don't know how Alad could use it to cure his infestation, and there's little reason it would would on the entirely different strains that are in the Entrati or in Helminth

Helminth even more so given it's been radically neutered

[molten rune]

again, operation tubemen of regor had a cure for the infestation found in tyl regor's ocean labs

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Operation:_Tubemen_of_Regor

[glacial bough]

As I started, there was no cure for the Infestation. Tubemen was about stopping Tyl from figuring out a away around Clone Rot.

[molten rune]

no, it wasnt

it was about either helping alad find the cure, or helping nef destroy it

[glacial bough]

It was. What Tyl had was a way around Clone Rot, that's the entire point of the Tubemen project

Alad had some way to use it to cure his infestation

There was no geneal cure, it was a partiular thing for Alad

[molten rune]

are you even listening to what im trying to say or is it just going in one ear and out the other?

[glacial bough]

Am I. That's why I'm saying it's not right

[molten rune]

"stealing the cure for his infestation" implies that there was a cure

[glacial bough]

Yes, Alad could use his research to cure himself. I'm pointing out that's not a geneal cure for Infestation

[molten rune]

so you admit that there is a potential cure?

[glacial bough]

No, not really

Not for what the Entrati have or Helminth

What Alad did was a one time use for him and him only

[molten rune]

i said the entrati is a different situation, but the techrot and 1999 helminth are heavily devolved versions of what alad had, meaning the cure could potentially work on them.

[glacial bough]

I wouldn't say. The Helminth is the exact same Helminth we use

[molten rune]

do you just like arguing despite there being clear evidence on the wiki?

[glacial bough]

It's not really the kind of evidence you think it is

[molten rune]

and your claims are?

show me some sources you have

[glacial bough]

That whatever Alad did for himself wouldn't apply to anyone else because he was working with an entirely different strain and is almost certainly tailor made for him

[molten rune]

the mutalist strain is STILL an evolved form of techrot

and if it could be "talor made" for him, that suggests that it can be tailor made to fit other forms

[normal mountain]

Just my two cents:
Unless they make operations replayable and not time-gated, I'd rather this be a quest than an operation

[molten rune]

yeah curing the infestiation would be better as a quest, given story implications

[normal mountain]

Still salty about missing fairly crucial lore and content just because I wasn't playing at the time

[glacial bough]

That would entirely depend on what he did. The research we steal doesn't pertain to the infestation, just Tyl's gene research.

[molten rune]

and it still went to CURING THE INFESTATION

[normal mountain]

Curing Alad's infestation

[glacial bough]

For Alad, in a particular method only he knew and effective for only him

[molten rune]

yes, it cured alad's infestation, but thats how all cures begin. once you have viable proof of a potential cure, you start testing it and tweaking it until you reach the desired result. alad's cure is already a huge step in the right direction, and with a few tweaks, it could cure other forms

the entrati have their own treatments that can slow the infestation and repair things, but it can not stop or cure it. perhaps by using some entrati remedies and studying how they work alongside the cure that alad used, it could potentially make a cure for more major strains

[lean garden]

alad's cure is already a huge step in the right direction, and with a few tweaks, it could cure other forms
While alad did successfully cure himself (although he still has massive scarring from that), "few tweaks" is something I find rather optimistic (and somewhat not likely)

[molten rune]

im saying it like that because i didnt want to have to write out another paragraph

obviously no it would take a lot longer, but it is still possible

[lean garden]

I've read your above, its still very optimistic

[molten rune]

optimism is good.

but hope, hope will get you killed

[lean garden]

Working with two different strains means that what works for one doesnt necessarily work for the other

[normal mountain]

Been hanging around Son, I see

[lean garden]

the strains evidently work differently since transmission vectors and symptoms are wildly apart

[molten rune]

obviously they evolved in different ways, but using the eternalism paradox if you were to eradicate the infestation there would still be a reality in which it failed. however, they all originated from the same strain. maybe if albrechts lab is still intact, extra information about the first strains of infestation could be gathered there.

the plot of a cure is more for a way potentially more content could be put in the game

we cant really tell what the true answer is unless a de staff member anwers

[molten rune]

and yes i have.

need to get those tokens somehow

[lean garden]

several things:

however, they all originated from the same strain. maybe if albrechts lab is still intact, extra information about the first strains of infestation could be gathered there.
Sure, this might provide some insights, but the issue is that the evolution of those strains result in a cure becoming more difficult. For a low stakes example, this is why we have regular flu shots, because those bastards keep changing, and we need to change to match. This means, like I've been saying, what works for one, doesnt necessarily work for another
but using the eternalism paradox if you were to eradicate the infestation there would still be a reality in which it failed.
Eternalism isnt a paradox. If we eradicate the techrot we're just dealing with your normal bootstrap paradox. Eternalism is just a theory of time. Furthermore, even if there was another reality where we failed to eradicate the techrot (and thus all infestation) it doesnt matter, all that matters is our own timeline

[molten rune]

didnt mean to put paradox there but yes, the cure would be more difficult, but still possible, and also, the one where we didnt eradicate the infested is our current timeline, but if you went back to 1999 and eradicated the techrot, it would do the same thing as saving the hex did, and just create a new timeline, but that means that at least one world can exist and advance without the infestation

[glacial bough]

Getting rid of the Techrot doesn't change anything in the timeline

[molten rune]

now if you really want to go into weird stuff relating to that, eleanor stated in a chat that she travelled through the void and found the eternalism counterpart where she became a monk. if you put that into perspective, she could travel to the timeline where the techrot was eradicated, find the drifer there, and just ask for the formula.

[molten rune]

it would do the same thing as saving the hex did, and just create a new timeline, but that means that at least one world can exist and advance without the infestation

i know you are going to keep arguing the same point but you will not change what i believe is possible

[lean garden]

we uh, arent creating a new timeline, we're changing our own

[restive river]

^^^^

[lean garden]

thats why we have the Coda in modern times

[glacial bough]

The Infestation would still exist. Getting rid of the Techrot doesn't change that, the Infestation continues on with or without it

[lean garden]

because we didnt send hollvania skyhigh

[restive river]

We are specifically changing history

[lean garden]

nah we'd get bootstrapped

[restive river]

The game tells us as such

[molten rune]

the game literally states you created a new timelyne

[restive river]

No, it doesn’t.

[molten rune]

did you not play 1999?

[restive river]

It specifically states we changed history

[lean garden]

does it now? shouldnt be too hard for you to cite it then

[restive river]

Did you?

[glacial bough]

The end of the quest certainly says we changed the outcome for the Hex, but it's still the same timeline

[glacial bough]

Oh, is there a KIM chat for that?

[restive river]

It specifically states history follows a new course and we know our changes effect the origin system with the Coda
It isn’t an alternate timeline, we are altering history

[lean garden]

no like since this is our timeline, and the techrot is likely to have been a hollvania original before albrechts canoodling, if we wipe the techrot we lose the information we have in the future that we'd use to wipe the techrot

[molten rune]

Eternalism - the theory that the future and past are as real as the present; and can theoretically be accessed by "changing the frame" (of reference)[1]. Since making a choice cannot change a pre-existing future, it follows that all possible choice/chance events are simultaneously real in separate realities.[2] (It differs from the real world theory of Eternalism, which does not require a multiverse and is simply deterministic in its usual singular-timeline form; choice and chance are concepts that don't necessarily have to exist. That definition of Eternalism just states that the past and the future exist now and so the present is not special. )

taken from the warframe wiki

, it follows that all possible choice/chance events are simultaneously real in separate realities.

[glacial bough]

Then my point rais should still stand given we know there would be still be other sources for Infestation breakout. Techrot gone but Infestation still existing as a whole

[molten rune]

this means that all you do is create a separate reality

[restive river]

Except we know with 1999 we aren’t doing that.

[glacial bough]

Yes, and we also explcitly know you can change events within your reality

[lean garden]

The assumption of the thingamabob is total irradication of infested in the past, so this doesnt really play here

[molten rune]

how about you cite YOUR sources for once?

[glacial bough]

A shadow of them still exist, but you can change events

[molten rune]

im sitting here doing all the work getting sources and all you guys do is sit here aguing over them

[restive river]

I already did :|

[molten rune]

reply to it so i can see where you linked it

[restive river]

End of the quest and the evidence of changes via the Coda
We aren’t making alternate histories, we’re changing our own.

[molten rune]

amir states that they are not the original, however

given the original timeline is the one where they died

[glacial bough]

yeah, and we changed the timeline

[lean garden]

1. The "Since making a choice cannot change a pre-existing future," is entirely unsourced by the wiki. This statement is unfounded and actually bears 0 relevance to how eternalism functions for "all time is real"
   1.5) This is part of why the wiki alone is an unreliable source
2. As shown by the very fact that the coda exist in present day, our changes to the past very much changed our future

What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime?

A. Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist (correct)

B. Everything that exists could, at any point, be erased

[molten rune]

the fact that the origin system remains unchanged suggests that the events of the loop now reside in a different timeline

[lean garden]

the coda

[molten rune]

just as duviri does

[lean garden]

Duviri isnt a different timeline, its just a place in the void in our side of time

[restive river]

But it doesn’t.

We know through the coda that our changes affect the origin system.

[glacial bough]

Not really. 1999 is far enough in the past that events (can) still play the same no matter what for the grand scale

[lean garden]

The Zariman vessel, adrift for an unknown time within the Void, now acts as a containment field for unrealized possibilities.

One such possibility is an alternate version of the TENNO. This individual escaped into the Void on their own initiative, rather than being rescued and taken into the Origin System as the Tenno were. Within the Void they established a realm, ‘Duviri’, in which to live.

This individual, the DRIFTER, has now entered the Origin System.

[molten rune]

wait until they are actually released before speculating

[lean garden]

we... we see the raijack fight???

[restive river]

:|

[lean garden]

Like they've already demo'd the railjack fight

[glacial bough]

DE showed how you make them

[restive river]

Yeah, we already know this is how it works lmao

[lean garden]

Hell, it was in the trailer in 1999

[restive river]

We are altering history, not creating a new timeline.

[glacial bough]

We even got a bit of the snake minigame in the quest

[lean garden]

that was the point of the funky 100, 1000, 10000, eons??? time bit in the trailer

[restive river]

^^^

I’m not even sure how they could change it to fit your alternate timeline theory

We know this is how the Coda work
We know we’re changing the past.

[molten rune]

then if we are altering history, eradicating the infestation would change the origin system, but if you are in a place outside what is being changed, you shouldnt be affected

[frigid sparrow]

yall forget that the infested/techrot was already nearly erradicated once already

i think

[restive river]

I don’t recall that ever happening :?

[molten rune]

@frigid sparrow read this

well wait they do have a point

[frigid sparrow]

yeah i did

im talking before the events of the game

[molten rune]

remember that one quest near the beginning of the game with the infested outbreak on mercury?

[frigid sparrow]

that quest was a reintroduction to the infested on a major galactic scale

[lean garden]

nearly, just aint the same as "totally" thats how them critters gets ya

just like the flood

[glacial bough]

Yes, the infestation was made dormant for a while

[molten rune]

nearly still means that its possible to go the full 100%

[glacial bough]

Not eradicated given Deimos would still be the same and would eventaully phase back into the system

[restive river]

Not a galactic scale, Warframe isnt on a galactic scale.

[lean garden]

^ the system had a whole deimos chilling with a nice truckload of infested

[molten rune]

just burn deimos at this point

[restive river]

The Heart

[molten rune]

oh yeah

[frigid sparrow]

sorry, but the point stands

[molten rune]

the heart

[restive river]

?
I’m correcting you, Warframe isnt on a galactic scale.

[frigid sparrow]

system wide scale is more accurate yeah lol

[molten rune]

i wonder if we are ever going to get an infested restyling of eris

[frigid sparrow]

yeah but im saying that while i was incorrect on the scale i was correct onit being warframe's scale

so the point stands

commas are important lol

[restive river]

Yeah I wasn’t saying your point didnt stand, I was correcting you on the scale lol

[molten rune]

now if we are going the eternalism route, there is a reality where the zariman made it to tau

[restive river]

Nowhere did I say your point was mute because you got the scale wrong lol

[restive river]

I disagree purely because of Wally’s involvement and his access to eternalism
He collapsed us into two possibilities

[molten rune]

but that also means no void powers

[frigid sparrow]

yeah i know. words are hard

https://tenor.com/view/mmmkay-mr-mackey-south-park-alright-okay-gif-19580399

[molten rune]

oh yeah i forgot the collapsing

[lean garden]

Eh, these days I dont favour the collapsing, prefer the end of looping interpretation instead

[molten rune]

but would the collapsing only reference the events after tha catastrophe?

[restive river]

Elaborate :o

[molten rune]

what would happen to all the realities prior to it

[lean garden]

Given that we know that the zariman sequence was a loop, the bit where all those ops "die" is actually the loop resetting

So sayeth that interpretation

[restive river]

Interesting

[lean garden]

Theres ofc the whole baro thing, but baro wasnt in a time loop

[restive river]

Baro proves Wally can collapse possibilities

Which is def where that idea came from for the Zariman

[frigid sparrow]

the fate of the zaraman is fixed in the void. in every possible timeline. it fails to make it to tau, either as a result of wally medling or something else entirely. it will always fail. though ther esi only 2 timelines thanks to wally where the kids survive and get powers (or WE specifically get powers idk)

think of it as a nexus point

[molten rune]

you could technically call the different platforms eternalism and they collapsed into one as shown with the message sent from baro when crossplay was added

[lean garden]

That is a fair interpretation of it imo

[molten rune]

he does state he felt multiple realities of himself merge into one

[lean garden]

Yes, but that was before it was confirmed to be a loop, and so the end loop interpretation came about

[molten rune]

but these realities were nearly similar, with only minor things being changed, like what relays are destroyed.

[frigid sparrow]

what you mean its a loop?

[molten rune]

if two vastly differenttimelines were to meet the same fate, who knows what would happen

[frigid sparrow]

like where does that get confirmed?

[molten rune]

hold on good thing i save all of my inbox messages

[lean garden]

The zariman sequence in the new war is a time loop, as confirmed in the Pom-2 in the sanctum

[molten rune]

ok nvm the baro message is either on my xbox instance or was sent to oblivion when i merged

[molten rune]

either way i dont want to pull out my xbox rn

holy crap what am i doing here i need to go back to farming prime parts for ducats

[frigid sparrow]

like the one where we give wally our flashlight? or the one where we meet ourselves?

[lean garden]

The flashlight bit

[frigid sparrow]

how is that a loop?

[lean garden]

Once interacted with the drifter the operator is freed

[lean garden]

Just because we only saw one run of the loop doesnt mean we saw all the runs

[frigid sparrow]

no like where is the reset point

it doesnt make sense to me because idk the set and reset points

[lean garden]

Reset point looks to be the handshake

The start seems to be where we start

[frigid sparrow]

ok

[humble sierra]

Yeah they’re meant to look like flashbacks because they were trying to lead you into thinking Drifter was just an injured, aged Operator

[feral cape]

Also I'd dislike it if I had to replay the same bit a couple times

[fathom elbow]

how did the drifter not know about ballas' during the new war zariman scene
didnt he spend sometime fighting him

[lean garden]

He was in duviri the whole time

[fathom elbow]

that makes sense in a way that i cant put into words if someone asked me what happened

tied in a rubber room TIME IS A CUBE IS TIME IS A CUBE IS TIME

[feral cape]

I thought drifter fought the archons before the zariman scene

[lean garden]

Drifter doesnt know ballas as much as operator, only as much as him being part of his ruling class

[lean garden]

He did, but he didnt have like 1.5/2 quests with ballas

[fathom elbow]

so he just knew him as narmer?

[lean garden]

Yes, and however much you would know the leader of your nation

[sage moat]

I find it interesting that duviri let the drifter age but only a little bit

Or actually, I guess the loop is prolly what de-aged them every time they died

Stuck being however old they are cause they reset whenever they die and they die a lot

[old dome]

if the hex romance is anything to go by, i dont think its "only a little bit"...

as in, the fact that they can romance adults.

[sage moat]

In the face of the hundreds, maybe thousands of years the drifter was in duviri, aging 10-20 years really ain't much

If I aged 10-20x slower minimum I'd be pretty happy

though they're not aging slower the aging is just being reset constantly

[unique cove]

I have a question regarding the world of 1999.

Since the Tenno is running around in Hollvania, should the world right now know the existence of the Tenno? Information and existence of the Tenno is censored and kept classified by the Hollvanian Government? If so, surely the Hollvanian survivors would record the Tenno and post it into the Internet. Imagine other nations get involved and we could have new factions to fight in 1999.

[tall echo]

With what would the survivors record the tenno?

[sly pagoda]

Assuming the 1999 we are in is not just another Duviri situation(ie a construct in the void) and is the actual 1999. Odds are they would not be able to tell the Drifter and their warframe from the rest of the Hex. Additionally 1999 is presumably so far from whatever year our primary time is that any of that would be lost to history.

I would imagine where we usually play is tens of thousands into the future. Lots of that history likely never survived in fine detail.

[unique cove]

Forgive my short sightedness, don't they have phones? They could use cameras. From their phones or security cameras.

[sly pagoda]

its 1999 so it would depend on the VHS tapes from security cameras surviving or being archived and transferred over time to new storage mediums or still photographs being similarly protected. phones didn't have cameras back then.

[unique cove]

Oh okay, my apologies. I have forgotten about VHS tapes, it has been some time remembering them... Damn.

Followup question, would the Hollvanian Government or Scaldra keep any intel regarding both the Hex and Tenno?

[tall echo]

Scaldra definitely would

[restive river]

The Drifter is just one person and not well known to begin with
They aren’t a public figure, just another member of the Hex

[unique cove]

I see.

[restive river]

There isnt enough information on the Tenno

[tall echo]

I don't think the höllvanian government is really doing much during 1999

[restive river]

Surviving so they can become the Orokin :p

[sly pagoda]

Scaldra probably do not even know what a drifter is, I would imagine they just think this new arrival is the Hex managed to find another one of Entrati's creations and recruit them.

[restive river]

Like if there’s a time where the Tenno are more widespread it’d be the origin system and they aren’t there because again, the Tenno are just not a well known thing
Its largely a secret and just not known, why would it be? We don’t advertise our presence

[restive river]

Exactly, they’d have no actual info on the Tenno

Russalka doesn’t even know who the Drifter is and that’s while she was connected to Wally :p

[sly pagoda]

Even during the prime of the empire the Tenno were a secret, the Orokin kept them as myth/legend/bogeyman .

[restive river]

^^

[unique cove]

Do you believe other nations could get involved in Hollvania's current situation it's in?

[restive river]

I kinda doubt it beyond the Hex

They’re an isolated problem as is

Same with the techrot
Though that may change, not like anyone could do anything against it

[sly pagoda]

Other nations might be involved in containment but not direct engagement. UNIT The UN's ICR clearly wrote off the operations there, Probably moved to quarantine of the whole citystate.

[lean garden]

If we draw inspiration from how other governments handle global pandemics, getting far away is the usual MO

[unique cove]

I could see the potential if the Tectrot could breach containment and start spreading into other nations. A big if.

[graceful swan]

Take down the giant walls maybe other places could help but so far nothing will get them down

[restive river]

Again, not like they can do anything against it

[unique cove]

I see.

[restive river]

Hollvania has the best weapon against it (funny green goo) and its not going too well :L

[sly pagoda]

If there was risk of breach of containment you would be more likely to see a saturation nuclear strike from one of the global powers.

[restive river]

There’s just too much of it

[graceful swan]

Hollvania is trying to contain the Infestation not spread it to other places

Like Scaldra aren't exactly the bad guys in this situation they are just doing bad things on the side that put us at odds with each other

[sly pagoda]

I mean it does seem like Viktor wants to use the Scaldra to totally take control of the place afterwards.

Honestly we still do not even know how it got out, Accident or deliberate. Because from the emails on Aoi's PC in the music store surrounding the Coda, It sounds like Hollvania did not exactly have a strict regulatory culture on R&D.

So an accident is not out of the question, Whatever department of the government was doing research on Technocyte had the safety record of Umbrella Corp.

[graceful swan]

I'd say it could've spread to Hollvania from another location then Scaldra decided to take over and deal with it by locking it in

[unique cove]

Spoilers

Within the KIM, I had found out Amir is from the U.S.L. (Alternative America) and worked for the O.R.O as an internship (In his words) "to-hire-program". I don't know if the O.R.O is Hollvanian or U.S.L organisation however they claimed Amir is a traitor to the national security, therefore sending the Scaldra after him for giving Dr E "specs", assuming information on a reactor he was working at.

[restive river]

It def sounds like ORO is part of Hollvania

[unique cove]

Is it the same organisation that was working on the Coda project or another Hollvanian Government branch?

[sly pagoda]

Might have just been the power company, I cannot see an intern in a high security program but some countries even IRL are a bit wary of someone handing out detail specs of even civilian reactors.

[sage moat]

I didn't know this but tagfer mentions archon shards being in the netracells

Meaning, at least to me, it's not a game play thing. Albrecht canonically had archon shards

So uh. How.

[sly pagoda]

A source of anti-entropic radiation ideal for empowering synthetic lifeforms, most notably Archons and Warframes.

This says to me that they as a "technology" likely predated the archons and are an orokin invention.

probably even predate the Warframes

[graceful swan]

Inbox message:
Pursuant to the study of Archon Shards

Tenno,

As I adjust to the era in which I have awakened, I note with alarm the reappearance of 'Archons', a foe we have not seen since the Sentient War.

Several Archon Shards were retrieved from the battlefields. The Orokin demanded Albrecht Entrati explore the potential inherent in them, a task he immediately delegated to me.

The Necraloid has shown me some examples of Kermerros' work with Shards. Impressive. I believe I can improve upon it, however.

You may acquire the relevant Segment from the Cavia at your convenience.

—Loid

[restive river]

They’re a sentient invention

[sage moat]

Oh I did forget that loid and albrecht were active during the old war. That makes sense

[inner halo]

Yeah! Loid assumes the Operator is a deserter when he first meets them, because he doesn't even realize the war is over and the orokin fell yet

[sage moat]

Which makes a really interesting timeframe of when albrecht went back in time

After the old war started but before the zariman came back

[inner halo]

It's after the Zariman came back, or at least Loid went to sleep after the Zariman came back, because Loid is still aware of what a tenno is, he just didn't know they had betrayed and destroyed the orokin yet

[graceful swan]

I would've said Deserter? Nah just the resident executioner

[tribal matrix]

Okey I just came back after quite some time, last time I completed whispers in the wall and then I was off. What's going on where to start?

[graceful swan]

Lotus Eaters and 1999

[tribal matrix]

Whats the Jade thingy> is it side quest>

[graceful swan]

No

That's a main quest

[tribal matrix]

Then whats lotus eaters? two main quests?

[graceful swan]

Lotus Eaters and 1999 follow on from Whispers

[tribal matrix]

so two main quests?

[graceful swan]

Yeah

[tribal matrix]

Just wanted to confirm, I started Lotus Eaters, it ended in minute with following Kalymos and that's all drifter went and came back in a minute. Is it supposed to happen or I skipped something?

Lore is very important to me, I love lore of warframe and been keeping track of everything

[graceful swan]

It was a prologue quest

It was meant to explain why Drifter was going to 1999 instead of Operator story wise