lore-discussion

[stiff fable]

fwiw Eleanor says she met the Indifference in 1999, before Albrecht entered the void

[timber kestrel]

?

[past halo]

There's a computer in Aoi's room that has the lore for them

[lean garden]

I would argue thats not the case, and thats because the loops begun, and neci is the breach for wally

[stiff fable]

Wally's interference in the timeline's over though, as evidenced by Rusalka's disappearance

[lean garden]

yes, but eleanor only met the indifference through neci

[quick terrace]

So are the warframes seperate from the tenno?

did they make the warframes?

[lean garden]

yes

[lean garden]

their bosses did, and then the tenno made essentially perfect replicas from blueprints

[sly pagoda]

basically a totally obedient band of perfect little money makers. I bet real record excutives wish they could have done that during the boy band era, And I am sure the companies that own/manage the K-Pop groups would leap at the opportunity. Fortunately nobody has tried to make Technocyte for real. Naturally the record executive asked if science could and not if it should.

[humble sierra]

The Orokin made Warframes as a weapon, but the Warframes were too berserk. Then they discovered the Tenno were capable of calming them.

Play the Second Dream, the War Within, and the Sacrifice quests for a better understanding.

[timber kestrel]

can you elaborate?

[timber kestrel]

also i just read it

did managment had a secret "intership" with a scientist to replicate the boys but be more obedient using technocyte?

[sly pagoda]

Yep N 17 0951 would be your serial for those wanting context of that number. Usually it is somewhere on that part of a gun because its the part that makes it go bang. I mean normally id expect it on the actual receiver and not the slide but im not going to fault DE for that minor of a thing. Warframe is not a game trying to be hyper realism.

[timber kestrel]

holy moly..

[sly pagoda]

Not internship they were working out a contract with whatever science group in Hollvania was developing or working on Technocyte. Clearly they did something wrong and things went full Umbrella Corp.

[timber kestrel]

sorry i meant contract

mb with choice of word

who is gregory v tho..

i wonder if it's a reference to something

[sly pagoda]

what makes things almost worse is this sounds very much like an official on record contract and not disgruntled programmer with shaving cream and Grand Theft Dinosaur.

[timber kestrel]

it's disturbing indeed

[sly pagoda]

Gregory V must be the manager at the record company

or some high ranking executive, they clearly have the permission to cut checks big enough to pay for tech virus clones to be designed.

[timber kestrel]

so i guess this confirms they are not the real on-lyne we're going to face

they are "replicas"

[sly pagoda]

maybe we shelter them at the mall at some point. Though we might need a prybar to get Aoi off Zeke in that case =p

[timber kestrel]

haha

[tawdry lintel]

i think eleanor has a line about em: "Aoi. I can guarantee that On-lyne remain safe and well, despite appearances."

either she's talking about them being infested, or about the state of Hollavania and the techrot outbreak

[sly pagoda]

maybe they are secured away somewhere. Or maybe its only the infested ones in the citystate. And the actual band is elsewhere. Given that Reb tweeted there is a lot more 1999 to come including the N'Fested liches I suspect we may find out.

[timber kestrel]

she said we have more of 1999 other than coda coming?

[tawdry lintel]

maybe some new weapons?

[timber kestrel]

i meant as in lore

[tawdry lintel]

idk i kinda hopin for the Dedicant goo launcher

[timber kestrel]

as in more than technocyte coda

[tawdry lintel]

Speaking of which, there's some explanation as to how the drifter gets to 1999 (helminth, Vessels, transference, or whatever) but how would the Coda travel to the future?

maybe they'll explain that?

[normal mountain]

I suspect hibernation

[sly pagoda]

-And More. So I figure we have at least one or two more immediately in setting patches.

[tawdry lintel]

so no travel, just "they've kinda been there all this time, and are just now waking up"?

what do they mean by secrets? the Coda stuff by aoi?

[normal mountain]

Prolly

dunno

[sly pagoda]

||It is looking like we possibly did not travel time at all and 1999 is actually more like a Duviri built by Albrecht to try and trap Wally in the loop, Would explain why the Drifter can reset the loop. If they had the power to do a limited regional Groundhog Day Loop on a real space region that would have interesting implications||

[arctic radish]

Questionne
What was the need/urgency for Drifter to go to 1999 again?

[tawdry lintel]

find albrecht and complete the kalymos sequence

also to stop wally

[arctic radish]

What was the sequence again?

[tawdry lintel]

kinda vague, but that pretty much it

[arctic radish]

Oh this is messed up.

[sly pagoda]

||once you get liked with The Hex members and do the reactor succesfully a computer screen in the back room says "Sequence Complete"||

[tawdry lintel]

i don't know if each step was explicitly stated, but imma try to remeber

[tawdry lintel]

so instead of traveling to the past, Albrecht instead made a time loop based on the past outside of time?

[sly pagoda]

||that is how it looks, Unless we find out otherwise. The otherwise being we really did shift times and the time in Duviri plus gaining Tenno powers made them some kind of time warping being in real space||

[tawdry lintel]

kinda wonder how the loop in 1999 was created

with the other one in Duviri, since its in the Void, its makes sense to do something like that, since the Void is outside of time or something

[restive river]

@copper mountain do you know what this error says?

[tawdry lintel]

seen in around a few times

it was also in the arg page

nothing special, just some error text

[restive river]

it popped up when I clicked the ad

wasnt sure if it was different cause of that

[ruby dawn]

So did 1999 pretty much retcon the Infested from being created by the Orokin to existing way before the empire was even formed?

[glacial bough]

There was no retcon to begin with

The Infested being created by the Orokin was just the most popular theory

[ruby dawn]

I see

[lean garden]

my take is that drifter has the power to reset time loops, but only time loops

and so we did travel to 1999, but there was a time loop in place

[tawdry lintel]

cant create, just reset?

[lean garden]

well he only created duviri, but thats because of the void, not some innate power of the drifter

[sly pagoda]

I guess the question then is, did ||completing the Kalymos Sequence with the good reactor ending end the loop or is it still looping, As when you go to grab the pizzas after the good completion of the mission a computer screen says Sequence Complete. After getting to "Liked" by all members in chemistry you redo the final and win||

[lean garden]

still looping

this is told to you afterwards

because you need to keep the good ending

[tawdry lintel]

so the good ending is to keep the reactor from going off

what was the reactor's explosion used for again?

[stiff fable]

Killing the Murmur which were invading. It's weak to radiation.

[lean garden]

albrecht says it provides the power to escape (the language he uses is intentionally vague, I suspect it was tongue in cheek for you to learn to use your empathy powers)

[tawdry lintel]

to me, he meant he was using it to escape the loop

like harnessing the energy of the explosion to travel out of the loop

[stiff fable]

that too

[humble sierra]

Albrecht's goal seemed to be teaching you about the power of love and its effectiveness against the Indifference. Makes sense why he'd name the Kalymos sequence after his cat

[sly pagoda]

or maybe trying to harness the power of the reactor but doing so would make it overload so to get back to the future he needed it to stay working because it seems he and the cat are gone after we keep it from going Chernobyl.

[tawdry lintel]

i thought he was just a cat person

[stiff fable]

He revived that cat the same way ||Loid does the Cavia|| at r5

[sly pagoda]

I mean hes from the Orokin era, other than Loid. The cat is the most loyal companion he can trust.

[lean garden]

not confirmed that its that, but its highly implied

[tawdry lintel]

i guess him saying a "rare spark of energy" means theres no radioactive elements left in the future?

idk now that i think about its, theres a lot of radioactive stuff

[humble sierra]

His phrasing was along the lines of "rare in this time"

[tawdry lintel]

what was the exact quote again?

[humble sierra]

Our only means of escape... our only hope to contain this horror I have created... will require a spark of energy rare in this timeline. You know what this means

[stiff fable]

Yeah it's the other way around, they need radiologicals that don't exist before the Radiation War(s)

[lean garden]

The fun part is that its probably also a double entendre to refer to your powers of transference

which dont exist at all in 1999

[tawdry lintel]

ah, ok thats make sense

[sly pagoda]

that makes sense, getting to liked makes the members of the hex just at ease enough with you to jump into them and give them that extra push. Like how the tenno put the minds of the original warframes at ease.

[humble sierra]

The Drifter did for the Hex what the Operators did for the Warframes

[sly pagoda]

the Drifter had to learn this, Because they did not grow up in a place with empathy.

The operators had Margulis and Lotus as well as just plain being kids that I assume were raised right.

[stiff fable]

I dunno if it's that since there's some kind of memory bleed between Drifter and Operator.

[limber pulsar]

drifter has the same relatively normal childhood before the zariman

[sly pagoda]

There is knowing how it works and being able to do it though.

[stiff fable]

I think it's almost more like respecting the Hex as people? Not just empathizing with what they're going through, but as individuals

Radical empathy, heh

[humble sierra]

There's a line of dialogue in the chat messages that MASSIVE SPOILERS ||SERIOUSLY DON'T READ THIS UNLESS YOU'VE SEEN IT|| ||OR IF YOU DON'T CARE|| ||OR DO I GUESS, I'M NOT YOUR DAD|| that reveals Drifter, at least, if not Operator ||had a sibling||

[stiff fable]

yeah wild

I bet that will never ever become relevant whatsoever

Ever.

EVER.

[humble sierra]

Yeah prolly not

[stiff fable]

rap tap tap

[humble sierra]

Unless they were ||referring to Operator as the Drifter's sibling||

[limber pulsar]

||theres also an option to say you dont have a sibling. its just roleplay that can go either way||

[humble sierra]

I myself haven't seen the dialogue nor its various interactions so I can't say for sure

[humble sierra]

Ah

Well through Eternalism ||The Drifter has a sibling. The Drifter does not have a sibling.||

[copper mountain]

Sorry for the delay; I was arguing with someone online (very productive)

The error text is the same as the one from the Pom-2 computer in the Sanctum Anatomica. It reads:
"The operating system could not complete the requested action. Try again later."

[humble sierra]

arguing with someone online
real

[silk atlas]

no, online.

[sly pagoda]

I know the manager did not like arguing On-Lyne so he had bio-nanotech clones made because what could go wrong.

[restive river]

Ah tysm!
I hope you won the silly argument

[feral cape]

Omg so real bestie

I spent like 20 minutes explaining to 2 people that countablly and uncountablly infinite are real things

[sly pagoda]

uncountablly infinite sounds like the reason why the void drives cephalons to be a little off when exposed to it. It has no definable scale, direction or flow of time, Their sensors see nothing but they know something is there.

every scale reads zero, every scale reads infinity, no scale reads inbetween.

[feral cape]

Hey filan quick question does your scale have decimal points

If it does your scale operates on the set of all uncountablly infinite numbers

Granted it obviously can't withstand the amount of force required but like scales operate on the set of all real numbers

[sly pagoda]

is that like the science game of you always have some bit of distance between yourself and an object, You just keep adding a zero between the right of the decimal point and the bigger number?

I think its off to wikipedia

or scihub

[candid lagoon]

alright no wonder we can take and use multiple stance animation in warframe cosmetic

[sly pagoda]

I guess I have never looked at infinite in mathmatical terms, but wow that was a read.

I was thinking of it and semi tangible terms like distance.

[feral cape]

Thats infinitesimal

Countablly infinite or aleph null is the set of all natural numbers
1 2 3 4 5... so on
Uncountablly infinite or aleph 1 is the set of all real numbers
1 1.000....1 1.000...2 so on

Imagine the decimal two-point-one repeating. Its precise value is incalculably infinite, and yet you know that beyond its irrational depths waits two-point-two. Two-point-three. Two-point-four…

[sly pagoda]

yeah had a mind blow reading that but it makes sense. When you include the decimal spaces to the right you will never reach 12 because 11.xxx can just keep adding spaces.

[bold nexus]

Wait so I don't fully understand, how in the world is 1999 connected to the walking metalic war crime enjoyer?

[feral cape]

What

[sly pagoda]

its explained in Whispers

Albrecht is pulling the attention of the indifference there to keep it from trying to break into the origin system.

or well more accurately from successfully breaking in

in full strength

[sly pagoda]

for any translation purposes did we have any of these back during Tennocon? the center frame posters. one of those looks kind of like a partially built Orokin tower.

[fresh quarry]

wtf is that tower

[chrome rivet]

Lore wise, how would you guys differentiate Revenant and Nyx's mind control?

[dawn glade]

One is mental and the other one is like latching onto the soul ID say

[sly pagoda]

have some zoo signage as well for any tranlators out there.

[halcyon cypress]

@full plinth
As far as I'm aware, the main difference between the tenno and drifter is that one got rescued from the void while the other didnt.

Correct me on this but I believe the tenno eventually did indeed escape the void after many years and the orokin took them back. This is when they made these operators to operate the Warframes as the void helped them.
Later during the downfall of the orokin they got put in cryopods on lua which was hidden in the void by lotus. We discover that later in the quest.

Drifter on the other hand, got rescued from the zariman when it went into the void. As for duviri, I'm not sure if it's a manifestation or a separate entity. I've read something about it being a book and the void manifested it into reality so maybe that's how he was 'rescued'. All in all we aren't really given much info on that

[full plinth]

Bau I s2g go to bed

You literally showed up immediately 🤣

[halcyon cypress]

I tried to type fast

[lean garden]

Correct me on this but I believe the tenno eventually did indeed escape the void after many years and the orokin took them back
Zariman popped out and kiddos were saved.
This is when they made these operators to operate the Warframes as the void helped them.
This took some time, Margulis had to invent transference tech and then she had to be killed and only then did the kids get weaponised to pilot warframes
Drifter on the other hand, got rescued from the zariman when it went into the void
The shtick is that they never got rescued from the zariman, unlike the operator
As for duviri, I'm not sure if it's a manifestation or a separate entity. I've read something about it being a book and the void manifested it into reality so maybe that's how he was 'rescued'. All in all we aren't really given much info on that
Drifter conceptually manifested duviri, and retreated to that, still not rescured from the zariman

[lean garden]

its only 530pm

[halcyon cypress]

Thanks lmao

[full plinth]

So Bau, are you telling me Drifter was basically in isolation in the void seeing things and being driven mad while also trying not to be driven mad?

[lean garden]

in essence, uh, yea

but not so much "seeing things"

[full plinth]

So how did they have Ordis and the landing craft when we started New War?

[lean garden]

more like "living things"

[lean garden]

thats the operator's

drifter used operator's stuff

[full plinth]

No no when drifter shows up in New War, we see Ordis and the landing craft and stuff destroyed

That's why it's called drifters camp

[lean garden]

not destroyed, it's parked

its still the operator's stuff

[full plinth]

So explain why we got flicky lights and pieces missing?

[lean garden]

thats why drifter keeps telling ordis that theyre not the operator

[lean garden]

pieces missing?

[full plinth]

So why is Ordis an owl in New War?

[full plinth]

Yea around the ship, you see sparks from wires and stuff

[lean garden]

the owl's actually been there since sacrifice

[full plinth]

Ordis has not been an owl this entire time, that's a lie!

He got owl form in new war

[lean garden]

you can actually see it in the background of his vitruvian ordis transmission image

[full plinth]

So Ordis just lied to me this entire time

[halcyon cypress]

Replay quests, it'll help

[full plinth]

I see how it is Ordis, I'm never laughing at your jokes again!

[lean garden]

wires I see, but thats not a destroyed look

its like when you park your car and you lift the bonnet

[lean garden]

Ordis: "I know someone that—?! Wait. Operator, you can't be serious!"

Drifter: "I told you. Don't call me that."

separately theres a steve sinclair original short story from Ordis POV when Drifter arrives

[halcyon cypress]

Warframe lore is so confusing but cool at the same time

[dire mountain]

Oh my god you're right

Even from before the new war came out

[tawdry lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-face-roblox-fa-dave-dave-face-gif-8440680257893749703

[fathom elbow]

what did that bit in the finale mean

[digital grail]

Drifter saying that they being chill

[graceful swan]

✌️

Victory

[fathom elbow]

You know
Part of me knew this
But i thought "that sure is a stupid theory i bet there is a deeper meaning to it"

[digital grail]

It's just drifter

[tawdry lintel]

any of you guys heard of testudo syndrome in the lore?

someone added in to the Techrot's wiki page, and i'm just wondering what it means

[lean garden]

its from the hexchat with eleanor

infected folks started growing hard patches of skin, much like how warframes have armoured skin

the patches looked like a turtles shell, hence testudo

[vapid yew]

Guys
If the hex need to go do a number 1 or 2, how do they do that?

Cause they can't just.. take the frames off can they?

[peak ether]

They still have their reproductive organs inside the suit stated by Quincy / Lettie. Eleanor has also said that she has felt every other members biological urges (to pee) and her body thought that it was hers making her think she had some sort of bladder infection

[graceful swan]

That’s honestly so creepy

[vapid yew]

So they still feel the need to go but they can't and Eleanor has to suffer with it
Wow

[peak ether]

Yeah… I guess we can only infer that:
They cut open their warframe exterior for their biological processes
They can “open” the exterior to do their business but it seals back up after they’re done

[vapid yew]

That just sucks
As if dealing with everything else wasn't enough

[peak ether]

Some people did theorise that they might not produce any waste at all because of the warframe body requiring as much energy as possible but the fact that Eleanor mentioned feeling everyones biological urges means that they do produce waste

[tulip kettle]

Im sad

I realized i did the duviri quest out of order

[chrome rivet]

So. The Entratis move around via burrowing underground like moles?

[tulip kettle]

I did it wayyy earlier than i was supposed to

[graceful swan]

You did it before TSD didn’t you

[tulip kettle]

…….. no comment

[nova beacon]

I did and I'm not afraid to admit it

[old dome]

...isnt the entrati familiar similar or the same as this??

[old dome]

yeeeeah this is why it should be locked behind the new war quest. it shouldnt be available that soon to anyone regardless of the reason why it exists (as a new starting point for players & was released after everyone actually did new war back then)...

[spice spade]

Wait, in one of the chats with some member of the hex the drifter said that the operator was asleep a BILLION years, so... when are we gonna learn how long the op was asleep? Never?

[manic rover]

"Testudo, Deimos".. is the Netracells...

[graceful swan]

It’s actually 1000+

Not billion

[tulip kettle]

It did make me go “YOOOO HES IN THIS?!” In the new war so it was a welcome surprise

[old dome]

??? who, the drifter???

[tulip kettle]

Yeah

[humble sierra]

I think the Circuit should be seperated from it because the Circuit is undeniably useful to new players

And the quest itself should be locked after New War for spoilers' sake

[spice spade]

I did duviri before nw and it didn't change much since I did not understand anything lmfao

[tulip kettle]

Im sorry but after seeing switch on your username, i imagine playing warframe on switch is a fate worse than death

[spice spade]

Bruh it ain't that bad ||it's mediocre at best||

Don't worry, gonna get pc soon

[manic rover]

mobile gonna have it harder

[tulip kettle]

Nevermind, mobile is a fate worse than immortality

Living forever is a curse, buuut playing warframe on a phone or ipad is just too far

[tall echo]

Compared to pc it's hell

[graceful swan]

Scrap weren’t you a switch user that got a steam thing?

[tall echo]

Yes

[near anvil]

I feel like more than just Tenno should be weaponising vampire kavats

[graceful swan]

They are only visible if you attack them though which might make them harder to weaponise

[tall echo]

Deimos kavats aren't vampire kavats

[graceful swan]

Scrap Amir told me I should sympathise with the Orokin should I?

[tall echo]

No. If he says that to me I'll divide nihil in half again

[graceful swan]

It was actually in relation to his Cephalon question

[tall echo]

He's already split across space and time

[near anvil]

Not talking about those

[tall echo]

Wasn't a reply to you

[near anvil]

An my bad

Sorry

[tall echo]

Based on the support packs kalymos is a unique vasca

[graceful swan]

Scrap Amir thinks Cephalonization isn’t that bad

[tall echo]

So at least albrecht has vampcat

[near anvil]

It’s horrific

[tall echo]

Yeah I noticed, he seems to just tune out some major details about it

[graceful swan]

Our last 2 conversations were bad

1st one he had a mental breakdown second he thinks we should sympathise with the Orokin

[near anvil]

Celphalonizon is a form of execution

That involves disintegration, how is that not bad

[manic rover]

typical amir stuff

[near anvil]

Orikan as a whole can’t be sympathised with, individuals maybe but the empire that body snatched? Not so much

[graceful swan]

Did he even know Albrecht was Orokin

[near anvil]

One thing that’s been bugging me, what’s the difference between orokin and human?

[graceful swan]

They’re blue and use other humans to change body they were still human

[candid elm]

Nothing really, it's more a position if class and power, think the difference between ceo and wage slave its pretty much the same

They get access to body snatching and what have you

[sharp acorn]

Orokin are just humans who use kuva to stay alive forever and went through body modification but they are still human

[near anvil]

Ah okay, that’s what I though WP but wasn’t sure as the long creepy arm and blue skin threw me off a bit

[sharp acorn]

That's just the Orokin's sense of "fashion."

[candid elm]

The body's they used were as far as I can tell a fashion statement of some sort, for that generation of orokin body's they had the big arms

Who knows maybe in another they were all furrys

[tall echo]

Different execution

[tall echo]

I do not want to be associated with the orokin more than I already am due to being human

[sharp acorn]

I mean, the Orokin did create the Cepholon's soo...

[candid elm]

What wrong with furrys?

[sharp acorn]

Read his bio, he himself is a furry

[candid elm]

I didn't really understand what he was saying

[naive frigate]

Are the animals we encounter alien or are their origins from the orokin?

[limber pulsar]

there arent any true aliens in all of warframe

[graceful swan]

Animals are just animals but I did hear somewhere the Orokin created them using their mastery of biology but I don’t have confirmation on that

[north jolt]

I think the Orokin ARE human. They just modified their bodies into the long armed blue people we're familiar with, for whatever reasons

[old dome]

i feel like he has this tendency to just. not realize how messed up everything going around him is... or to other people—& its not that he doesnt sympathize as much as its just. a general disconnection to reality... i wonder if its him or the infestation/albrecht's experimentation on the hex that scrambled his brains...

[tall echo]

English not your first language or smth?

[old dome]

"do you ever walk into a room & think of how many human skulls there are? isnt that weird?" no, amir,, i dont.

[glacial bough]

It's a punishment, not execution. You could still be put back into your body

[north jolt]

I think his brain was probably scrambled long before even going back to 1999. In his mind he's literally fighting a existential threat to not just him and humanity but the universe in general, so what's a few lives or even a few planets compared to the entirety of existence?

I don't know if "sociopathic" would be a accurate term to describe him? But I think it's safe to say that least in his mind, considering what he's up against there's almost no price too big to pay (except for his own family and loved ones)

[brittle siren]

Why I feel like the Techrot origin sound like those thing in Resident Evil 7 and 8

[north jolt]

Actually that just made me realize something. Was the techrot already in 1999 before Albrecht was screwing around with stuff, or did he introduce it? And if the latter then what was the "original" (before Albrecht's meddling) cause of the meltdown?

[lean garden]

signs point to techrot being present in 1998

[sage moat]

Ok so I think something is wrong with my understanding of the drifter.
I think:
The deal fused every version of You into 2 versions, all the possibilities where you're saved and every possibility where you're not. Thus resulting in 2 beings.
But that doesn't feel right. Is that accurate?

[lean garden]

not exactly

the deal resulted in a split, one you where you got saved, one you where you didnt

not much fusing there really

[sage moat]

Did the drifter take the deal?

[lean garden]

yes

[graceful swan]

Yes

[sage moat]

Shouldn't there be a million drifters across a million duviris then, since there would be multiple ways that the drifter wasn't saved, many worlds theory and all that?

Or is the idea that because the split happened in the void, they aren't in a different timeline?

[limber pulsar]

warframe doesnt use that kind of multiverse. not eveything needs to be the mcu

[lean garden]

the question I have for you is are you sure that all these will be manifested?

[sage moat]

I mean I guess it's possible that there is only one possible way that the drifter isn't saved

[lean garden]

thats not what I asked tho, Im asking is that are you sure that all these "possibilities" are going to be manifested?

[sage moat]

Manifested how?

[graceful swan]

Wally murdered most if not all the possibilities of other Tenno and Drifters

[lean garden]

like you say "millions ...." how does this look like

[sage moat]

Oh I think I see what you're getting at?

[lean garden]

uhuh uhuh

[sage moat]

Just because it could happen doesn't mean it does in eternalism? Not every decision makes a new reality?

[lean garden]

Closer! Just because there is a new reality doesnt mean that we'll see it spawn right before our very eyes!

[graceful swan]

They can only theoretically be accessed which in most cases probably won’t happen

[lean garden]

Infact, drifter (and technically his side of the zariman) is the only thing that comes from his timeline, but as a manifested version of it on our timeline

[sage moat]

So the drifter exists in this reality because?
Void magic?

[graceful swan]

Eternalism

Literally

[sage moat]

They're a paradox because they come from a different face of the eternalism cube but landed here because they traveled through the void?

[sage moat]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around how eternalism explains two versioms in the same reality

[lean garden]

eternalism and void magic

[graceful swan]

They’re a Paradox because Operator exists if what Steve said is accurate

[sage moat]

Ok I think I got it

[lean garden]

recall the eternalism question in tnw, how does the question work out?

[sage moat]

Her parents are alive, her parents are dead

[lean garden]

mhmm, now what was the trigger for both events?

[sage moat]

The girl choosing which parent to free, right?

The choice was the trigger

[lean garden]

mhmm

now what choice did we make with wally?

[sage moat]

To make the deal
But yall said the drifter also made the deal

[lean garden]

yes, because the timeline hadnt split

drifter made the deal because we made the deal

and then it split from there

[graceful swan]

29. You wouldn't welch on a deal, would you?

A. CORRUPT FILE DETECTED

B. I saved them. All of them. Never said I'd save you. (correct)

[sage moat]

Ok. And then the split between saved and not saved happened? Specifically because of wally's choice of whether "all of them" includes the drifter?

Then the drifter made duviri, eventually escaped, and through the void, landed in the same reality as their other version?

[graceful swan]

They basically swapped places

Drifter was in the Void Operator wasn’t

Operator was in the Void Drifter wasn’t

[sage moat]

OH that explains how they escaped then

[graceful swan]

Then they meet

[sage moat]

They meet on the zariman, the only place they can coexist since it's halfway between void and reality?

[graceful swan]

Even then time was catching up

But yeah

[sage moat]

Right, so it takes some time to catch up and pull the switcheroo

[graceful swan]

In Lotus Eaters that was also the same concept kinda

[sage moat]

Was just gonna ask that, ok

So while the drifter is in 1999, where's the operator? In the Not-Sand in albrechts labs, on the other side of the zariman, or something else?

Or, really. Where's the operator whenever the drifter isn't in the void

[graceful swan]

Albrechts labs and Deimos in general is also extremely close to the Void and the area in general was you standing on a Void entity

Quinn can answer that

[sage moat]

Is it in a rank up line?

[graceful swan]

I think

[sage moat]

Ok. Thank you all for explaining this to me, I appreciate it.

[graceful swan]

Basically it comes down to after the Zariman talk you share 2 Void Silhouettes

[sage moat]

what

[lean garden]

Hulk banner situation really

1 physical body, two "silhouettes"

[sage moat]

But one body is an adult?

[lean garden]

whichever is being expressed in the moment

[sage moat]

Ok I think I get it

[graceful swan]

Bau do they actually share the same memories

[sage moat]

DID but the void is the headspace

Whenever one is piloting the body, the other has to just be in the headspace. They could coexist in the headspace but someone has to be piloting the body.
This still doesn't answer where the operator is. Just. Hanging out in the void? Or is the operator functionally asleep while the drifter pilots since the operator doesn't have anywhere to be, whereas the drifter has duviri

[graceful swan]

They occupy the same space just one has control

So Operator is still there

[lean garden]

up to like, the split, after that its their own tracks

at least thats what I think

[sage moat]

Then how was the drifter in duviri while the operator was also active?

[lean garden]

drifter in duviri hadnt linked up with operator yet

[sage moat]

And that merging of bodies happend in TNW?

[graceful swan]

Yes

[sage moat]

What a confusing set of story beats 😭 thank you again for the explanations. I think I don't have any more questions

[pearl rose]

Uhm... I have a question... Is Tau a solar system or a planet? Because that line in 1999 is confusing me

[digital grail]

It's meant to be a system not a planet DE why

[pearl rose]

That's what I thought

[graceful swan]

Unreliable narrator moment?

[pearl rose]

I'll ask Juice she's connected

[graceful swan]

Is this on wiki or in the dating system

[pearl rose]

Dating

It's what the Drifter says, so what also the Operator could say

[graceful swan]

Juice wouldn’t know because they aren’t on the writing team

[pearl rose]

Yeah, too late x)
At least someone from DE will be aware of that and might share it maybe

[chilly iron]

Could be both
Sol is in the Solar System, although that's the sun not a planet. Still applies though.

[tall echo]

Solar systems are usually named after their primary star

At least in fiction idk about irl

[pliant snow]

also the sentients feed off the sun, so they could feed off tau ceti star, and could just be floating around it on platforms (dyson sphere style)
so still not really a planet, but drifter said they didnt pay much attention in class (KIM option), and it was many many years ago (all the duviri loops), so sounds like bad memory/unreliable narrator

[pearl rose]

Then why Tau would be a planet it it's after the star x)

[pearl rose]

IRL too, I believe

[restive river]

Afaik that was just praghasa, she was specifically designed to consume any matter to create troops and with the sun it was to make a void portal to Tau

[chilly iron]

The archon missions often have Lotus talking about "creatures from Tau", so I always thought Tau was a planet

I figured they could name it whatever they wanted, I just want to visit

[tall echo]

Tau is a solar system based on the real life tau ceti

[lean garden]

Both

[sterile lotus]

Can Teshin become a warframe cause he’s a Dex?

[restive river]

Any human can become a Warframe, it wasn’t exclusive to Dax

But Dax didn’t just turn into Warframes

Its a whole process

[sterile lotus]

It’s a virus that’s injected into your system

[restive river]

It’s the infestation yes

Anyone can be infected with the Helninth strain

[graceful swan]

Tenno can’t become Warframes

[sterile lotus]

I’m watching so much lore so my mind is going crazy over this

[restive river]

Careful with loretubers, sometimes they get their theories mixed up with whats true and whats not

[restive river]

Well yeah, nobody’s gonna infest him and he’s a primary NPC :p

[sterile lotus]

That’s why I ask on here

[graceful swan]

Best info you’ll get is https://www.orokinarchives.com/

[sterile lotus]

W I’m MR 28 but I feel like I know like %75 percent of the lore then a new update comes in boom I don’t know anything about warframe lol

[restive river]

Yeahh, there’s a lot lol

I will say that the new content explains a lot of lore, old and new

[sterile lotus]

That’s definitely something I noticed too

[restive river]

1999 exceeded my exceptions

And it isn’t even over yet!

We still have more content to get to with the update and echoes sometime early next year

[sterile lotus]

I’m loving 1999 I wish they made Proto frames for everyone

[restive river]

That’d be an insane amount of work and woulda taken way too long lol
But we will get at least one new proto sometime in the future

Possibly based on community feedback

[sterile lotus]

The original 8

Would be easy they already have 5

[stiff fable]

Imagine if they did Loki and he came with a rework

[sterile lotus]

I don’t mind each update they can do one like a prime

[stiff fable]

But they could also do Frost and have it be nothing but Batman jokes

[restive river]

That woulda been cool yeah

I do think if they do frost they should do Ember too

Imagine the dynamics they could have

[sterile lotus]

I just need a Ash and Banshee

[restive river]

Banshee proto with a rework

[sterile lotus]

Each proto skin comes with a full back story

[upper swift]

Just out of interest, at the end of the hex finale, ||what was the vessel doing?||

[sly pagoda]

who said that in the chat though? the screen grab cuts off all but that phrase.

[graceful swan]

The victory emote

[restive river]

We totally need that peace sign as an emote

[graceful swan]

✌️

Best I can offer

[restive river]

Drifter says it, if I had to guess Tau is both the system and a planet, Tau maybe being the primary capital of the sentients

[restive river]

I meant in game but ty

[graceful swan]

We do need it in game

Come on DE you made it a whole cutscene

[sterile lotus]

So Tau is a solar system like our solar system

[graceful swan]

Echoes of 1999 the Tales of the Victory emote

[sly pagoda]

yeah I figured maybe they called it Tau because the planet had yet to be named. Then again maybe Tau has always meant the planet, There is an actual star called Tau Ceti.

[restive river]

Yes, it’s a real life star system

[sly pagoda]

Tau Ceti might be orbited by two planets in its habitable zone so

[restive river]

The parallax skins descriptions have always suggested to me that it’s multiple planets but thats just me

[sly pagoda]

12Ly away.

[sterile lotus]

So this can be a future update

[sly pagoda]

so its right in the neighborhood in space terms

[restive river]

Currently they have no plans for Tau and in-universe we have zero reason to go there but that doesn’t mean we’ll never have a reason, just that there isn’t one for now

I kinda hope they pick up the Narmer plotline and that leads into Tau

I’d have to check but I think Albrecht mentions Tau in the hex quest near the end?
I just don’t remember the context of it

[sly pagoda]

we would need a way to get there, The interstellar solar rail is gone which would mean having some plot point that lets us extract the Zariman and seal the rift its plugging. Since afain only the 10-0 has a reliquary drive rated for that long of a jump.

we cannot just pull it out because right now the ship is the flex tape on a leak of bad.

[restive river]

Don’t forget that it also has Yonta who literally knows how to make the jump possible now that she’s had the time to really figure that out if we had the chance

[sterile lotus]

Flex tape got a leak in the void use 10-0

[sly pagoda]

they put in Tau, add Holdouts to romance system, Dinner and dancing with Yonta... 😉

[graceful swan]

She only thinks she knows though unfortunately

[restive river]

Its the best we got right now

[sly pagoda]

I trust she knows at this point, last time she was rushed by the Orokin.

[restive river]

I’d say back off but she has two hands

[sly pagoda]

Eternalism says there is plenty of Yonta to go around 😉

[graceful swan]

Her hands were tied so she had none

[restive river]

Har har

[graceful swan]

Didn’t Yonta say she doesn’t like other Yonta’s

[sly pagoda]

My take on the disaster from reading between the lines is Tuvul wanted to move up the timetable so they never did all the calculations and tests they needed. Basically like how executives at modern Boeing function.

[restive river]

I need more knives to stick into him

[graceful swan]

Is there even a Tuvul portrait to stick knives in?

[sterile lotus]

Was Rell in the classroom during New war?

[graceful swan]

I do love me some Ballas knife action

[restive river]

Ours? I’m not sure actually

[graceful swan]

Yes Melica mentions it

[restive river]

I think he may have been in one of our classes

He def wasn’t at the time of the incident

[graceful swan]

Ducky earlier Amir told me I should sympathise with the Orokin

[restive river]

Oop

[wary vault]

Bruh since when Tau is a planet and not a system??

[restive river]

Welp
Looks like the Hex is gonna become the Pent…

[restive river]

We believe it’s both, there’s the system itself and the planet

I imagine Tau the planet is the Sentient capital

It’d be like if the Origin System was called the Lua System

[graceful swan]

DE aren’t the best at remembering their own lore it’s probably just a mistake

Multiple teams probably write different things

[sly pagoda]

Also possible the planet is Tau and the star is in fact Tau Ceti.

of course the Orokin might just call it all Tau.

[restive river]

Do we know if its specifically been refereed to as Tau Ceti anywhere in the game :?
first thing that comes to mind is the whip from the preludes to war events maybe?

This is not the channel for that

[sly pagoda]

ive never seen Tau Ceti mentioned by name I think its just assumed because afaik its the only system with tau in the name that is in the local area.

the flaw is the Mag Prime storybit sounds like they went there via solar rail during the old war and it calls it an alien blue star, If that is Tau than its not Tau Ceti which is a G type yellow similar to our own. I would want to say I doubt the sentients could alter a star but we do have Pragusa which can nom one and well the Orokin era is full of science that takes physics as we know it out behind the wood shed.

[feral cape]

Could also just be like de taking artistic liberties

[native heron]

Yall are we racist? Like aside from the whole racist mods,think about it like 1 we're orokin 2 we literally commit ethnic cleansing just for fun 3 we literally went back in time just to be more racist

[graceful swan]

We aren’t racist lol

[north jolt]

I would argue that it's not ethnic cleansing it's deposing of tyrants and literal vermin (infestation)

[sly pagoda]

I mean the scaldra sound like they are running a military dictatorship, with cleansing the techrot as planting the roots for such.

[brazen scroll]

Well let's take a look at one of the sentient weapons from orphix venom (sentient event) https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ceti_Lacera

Or scarlet spear I guess

[restive river]

Yeah that’s the one

[native heron]

Ik i said let's put the mods aside but i feel like "cleanse grineer" is a lil hint

[chilly iron]

We're friends with a number of Grineer

Also they are in fact all physically sick and diseased

[agile cedar]

the Corspus are what? modified humans? robots? another humanoid race like humans?

[silk atlas]

Every single human-looking thing in this game are humans. Yes, even the Grineer. That's what the sci-fi equivalent of inbreeding will do to a people.

[tall echo]

Humans

There are no aliens in warframe, only humans, human-made machines and eldritch horrors

[agile cedar]

orokin are like human evolve, right?

i think them all are aliens

[silk atlas]

They're not.

[agile cedar]

cool

[tall echo]

Orokin are modified humans

[silk atlas]

They're all humans.

People mutilating their own body in the name of fashion isn't a new concept either.

[tall echo]

Oversized smurfs with a collective god complex

[agile cedar]

modified by the void? couse the warframe are machine and infested,right?

[silk atlas]

No Void involved. Warframes aren't machines, they're made from a human body.

[tall echo]

Modified by technology

[north jolt]

Merchants/Pirates

With robots

[tall echo]

Surgical technology

[graceful swan]

Infested humans

[agile cedar]

kinda crazy to turn this around

[north jolt]

Well the warframes are, not sure how the Orokin themselves actually changed their skin color, arm sizes etc

[tall echo]

Modern medicine

[north jolt]

Probably vague wibbly wobbley scifi stuff

[silk atlas]

The Refleca or whatever from the Represent store implies it's a tattoo-esque procedure.

[graceful swan]

Refacia kits exists and there’s actually surgery to become taller irl by breaking bones

[tall echo]

There appears to be gold implanted into their arms to extend them based on the way the entrati's look

[agile cedar]

so the infested are orokin? or randon humans like corpus and grinner?

[tall echo]

Infested are infested

[north jolt]

Hold on gotta look up a new word now

oh that

[restive river]

Warframe doesn’t have aliens.

It’s all humans or human-made things

[agile cedar]

so, if dont have aliens, only humans modified, wtf is hunhow?

[silk atlas]

Sentient.

[agile cedar]

o right

[restive river]

Artificial Intelligence, a highly advanced robot capable of adaptation, a sentient.

Closest thing to aliens would actually be the void manifestations but even those are born from humans by technicality of their origin
Those origins being conceptual embodiment

[agile cedar]

so natah(lotus) is a sentient? she is doughter of hunhow

[restive river]

Yes

[zinc bloom]

i like how every human adjacent thing is the result of orokin hubris

[graceful swan]

Warframe does have ghosts

[restive river]

We can kinda blame them for everything lmao

[tall echo]

Ghosts usually originate from humans

[zinc bloom]

is it blaming if its really their fault? lol

[restive river]

I mean human ghosts yes
Which Warframe does have

[agile cedar]

Since in WF 1999 there was no orokin or anything like that, roughly what year does the game take place? Or do we have no idea about it?

[restive river]

Well Hollvania seems to be the birth place of the Orokin judging by the 1999 comic
We can also extrapolate that the Orokin Empire lasted for about 10k years, add an additional 1k for our big nap and you get… far in the future
We have no exact date and we likely never will

[somber adder]

1999 has completely changed my interpretation of the lore

These bizarre animals are things I would have explained as Orokin creations, but here they are at a zoo which seemingly houses naturally evolved creatures

[restive river]

THATS WHAT THE GORILLA LOOKS LIKE??

[restive river]

Yup, alternate Earth is wild!

[somber adder]

Notice that the bird is the same species as Bird 3

[restive river]

They got tagfers and bird 3 relatives :D

[restive river]

Similar, not the same

They’re absolutely distant relatives

[somber adder]

But what’s so weird about this is that there are mentions of real-world animals in dialogue

[restive river]

They’re called Ooks!

[tall echo]

Same shape

[restive river]

I think its a case of some things differing but not everything

[somber adder]

Wouldn’t be very distant, ten thousand years or so doesn’t get you much speciation

[restive river]

Like how we still have phones and headphones and cars
but the cars have too many lights for no reason

[proper barn]

I mean in the lore it says that the orokin got like old species and remade them again.

[restive river]

It’d be less than that tbh if that 10k includes their fall

[proper barn]

Also the murgoo is on one of the pictures.

[tall echo]

Interesting

[proper barn]

I am 99% sure

[somber adder]

Yes but these pictures are from 1999

[sage moat]

Ok so a kavat is a strange alien cat but Pugorilla is a totally normal animal

[proper barn]

That like The business talks about how the Orokin like brought back ancient speices

Which would make sense.

[restive river]

Not alien, Warframe doesn’t have aliens

[tall echo]

Just a genetically enhanced cat

[restive river]

Can’t believe we still have to specify Warframe doesn’t have aliens

[somber adder]

There are Mergoo-like birds depicted and seen in 1999 so yeah, apparently hexapodal life exists

[somber adder]

Idk man the Murmur isn’t exactly very human

[sage moat]

I know I'm talking like, from the perspective of the hex/ppl in 1999

[glossy marsh]

One of those silhouettes looks an awful lot like a predasite

[somber adder]

Exactly my thought too

[restive river]

Except it’s born from a human, everything in Warframe is either a human or comes from humans

[somber adder]

Looks like a pre-infestation predasite

[tall echo]

The eldritch is not alien

[sage moat]

Dw I'm fully aware warframe doesn't have aliens (no matter how ugly Darvo is a-har-har-har)

[restive river]

I mean it is just not in the UFO kinda way

[glossy marsh]

Technically speaking it is still human made as the void is shaped by emotions

[somber adder]

We don’t exactly know the Murmur was created from a human, I don’t think it’s entirely proven Albrecht caused the Indifference

[sage moat]

And I mean
In some theories, wally and the Murmur were directly created from albrecht. So.

[restive river]

Albrecht literally tells us he created it lol

[somber adder]

When tho

[restive river]

In 1999

[humble sierra]

Regardless of whether or not Albrecht created it (which almost all evidence suggests he did), the Murmur is explicitly trying to mock a human form

[restive river]

We’ve already had things alluding to it, now it’s confirmed by the man himself

[tall echo]

While alien by definition, the word is generally only used for extraterrestial life within a universe

[somber adder]

He could be referring to the fact that he brought its attention to the world

[humble sierra]

Sythel’s dialogue also suggests he made it

[stiff fable]

Albrecht is the type who WOULD take credit for creating the thing he's fighting tho'

[sage moat]

He might not be saying he created the indifference but rather that he created this horror, as in the issue of wally being here.
Personally I believe he did create it But gotta account for everything.

[somber adder]

Obviously, but mimicry doesn’t equate to relation

[humble sierra]

The reports in the Sanctum also discuss it

[sage moat]

I fully believe the void is essentially a Magic Emotion Mirror

[somber adder]

It’s implied to be

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment:

[somber adder]

I dislike that I can hear the Indifference through the mall’s radioes

I am creeped out

[restive river]

Regardless the vast majority of things in Warframe are born from or just are humans
Wally wouldn’t exist or be here without humans either so I’d argue that’s close enough if nothing else

[tall echo]

Rap tap tapping on the hex's door

[restive river]

Though I still stand by him being a void manifestation formed by Albrecht’s feelings about himself when he first stepped into the void

[sage moat]

I love how warframe does make everything originate from humans

[restive river]

He saw himself as a void
And the void made just that

[restive river]

Same!

[somber adder]

Something interesting about the Mergoo: it is not possible in our world for a bird to have six limbs like the Mergoo

[restive river]

Alt Earth moment

[tall echo]

And then he got afraid and it took on that aspect in a backwards way

[somber adder]

To have additional limbs, a tetrapod would need a hox gene mutation, which is unlikely to occur but possible

Without one it would never occur

And usually mutations in the hox genes cause the removal of body parts

[restive river]

Warframe’s just turning into speculative zoology and I love it

[somber adder]

So if we apply real world biology to Warframe, the Mergoo isn’t even a tetrapod

It’s an entirely different type of vertebrate and not a bird at all

[restive river]

Ven, thank you for your knowledge
I’m loving this

[somber adder]

Evolved separately from tetrapods, from a fish that used six fins to crawl onto the land

[tall echo]

Isn't the mergoo described as reptilian somewhere?

[somber adder]

Which is very interesting in my opinion

[restive river]

I think?

[sage moat]

Well birds are reptiles

[restive river]

Birds are dinosaurs

[somber adder]

It does have scales

[restive river]

Omg I wanna know what Warframe dinosaurs looked like!

[somber adder]

The existence of the Mergoo also implies there could have been six-limbed dinosaurs

[sage moat]

How did dogs evolve back into laying eggs via kubrow

[restive river]

That was the Orokin for sure

[somber adder]

Perhaps six-limbedness is the ancestral condition of birds in warframe’s earth, and creatures such as the Condroc and Bird 3 lost them or have vestigial third limb sets somewhere, hidden like a kiwi’s wings

Bird 3 could have little nubs on his tail that once were wings

[sage moat]

I wanna know the entomology of warframe. How are ants doing on deimos. Imagine the crazy stuff wasps have done

[somber adder]

I could imagine them actually not being infestation-prone

They might be too small for the nanites to really do much

[somber adder]

They could have never stopped doing it

[restive river]

Wait that reminds me

[somber adder]

Mammals originally laid eggs, and certain species now (echidna and platypus) retain this feature

[restive river]

Do y’all remember the void key beetle from the cetus intro?

[somber adder]

Not at all but it sounds awesome

[restive river]

I’ll grab a pic for ya :D

[sage moat]

1999 implies cats are normal so I assume dogs are too.
But also
Do we have any confirmation that kubrows did evolve from dogs? Like that was the thought but is that ever stated

[somber adder]

Not explicitly

They have frog feet and not paws, which may imply they aren’t even mammalian

[glacial bough]

They'd have to, Kubrows are some form of canine

[somber adder]

Ooooh interesting

[restive river]

I’ve always assumed kubrows evolved from bats ngl

Just cause the noses

[restive river]

My guess is Orokin bioengineering is at work with this beetle but it would be neat if it predated the void keys

[sage moat]

I love this

[restive river]

I highly recommend looking up the cetus intor

Actually I’ll just grab it for ya too lol

[somber adder]

Maybe it evolved to resemble a void key (evolution occurs fast in bugs) so travelers would take it to Orokin towers where it maybe would lay eggs? Or eat the wall meat

[restive river]

https://youtu.be/h5DkvxbL9M4?si=_fGGt4kroJCtRfV8

[tall echo]

Tasty wall meat

[somber adder]

Or perhaps the Orokin made the keys to resemble the buge

[restive river]

I like this idea the most, just cause the concept of them really liking this bug is cool to me

I love when tech mimics nature

Actually idk if thats a beetle

It makes cicada sounds I think?

[somber adder]

Its wings flap like a bird but it looks like a bug

[restive river]

Also it has some level of bioluminescence it looks like

[somber adder]

Maybe it’s a really messed up bird lol

[tall echo]

Bug is bug

[restive river]

DE, where’s the void key bug bird lore???

[somber adder]

On the notion of the keys being designed after the Bug, it’s quite plausible

The Egyptians revered beetles as scarabs, and the Orokin share some similarities with the ancient Egyptians

Additionally Inaros uses scarabs in his attacks

[tall echo]

Then there's the narmer thing

[somber adder]

Narmer, if my memory serves me dutifully, was the name of a Pharaoh

[tall echo]

Yes

One who united egypt based on what I've read here

[somber adder]

Looked it up and it says king, so maybe not a Pharaoh exactly

[tall echo]

Would be quite thenarmertically fitting if true

I can not type

[somber adder]

He was still an Egyptian ruler and considered by many Archaeologists to be the same person as Menes, who is considered a Pharaoh

So the connection stands

[somber adder]

Original Kuaka?

[restive river]

Wonder what the translates to

[agile cedar]

Returning to the discussion, if there are no aliens in WF, there are entities, right? the man in the wall is some kind of very powerful entity, damn the railjack and zariman are powered by his FINGER

[chrome rivet]

I don't get one thing about the Grineer.

If they have problems due to genetic regression for their clone army, can't they just find and kidnap someone who doesn't have a genetic disease and use their DNA to make a new clone template?

Or is their something special about Grineer DNA that cannot be found anywhere else?

[normal mountain]

I imagine the Grineer don't want to risk picking up a weak template

[chrome rivet]

I don't think anyone at this point can be weaker than a bunch of walking rotten geriatrics

Kahl is practically the same age as my grandpa, and yet he's probably 10 years old

[somber adder]

From what I remember, Grineer believe their genes are superior

I think this is because they’re clones of someone who killed a Sentient with just a shovel

[stone pier]

Ha! Eleanor likes dad jokes!
-Hey, Drifter. I'm sad.
-Hey, sad. I'm Drifter.
-THERE ARE DAD JOKES IN THE FUTURE!
-Now I'm happy. Thanks.

[chrome rivet]

Woah what???

[somber adder]

Yes

Lancer synthesis imprint is the source

[proper barn]

@chrome rivet @somber adder Not someone a grinner

the soilder grinner of clones of a Grinner worker who killed a sentinet

the grinner where already a big clone workforce they just weren't turned into soliders until that happened.

also even current grinner take like bodies and genetags and stuff of grinner that died and use that to improve future grinner batches.

[candid lagoon]

i want to ask - is protoframe wear a suit or n*de rn cuz seeing lettie design felt like it ?

[stiff fable]

Not a suit

[peak ether]

It kind of is but isn’t, Lettie and Quincy can mention that they still have their reproductive organs inside the warframe body

it’s probably closer to a suit than our warframes

[lean garden]

I would argue that it doesnt mean that its a suit, it just means that the rep organs are not yet vestigial in the protoframes

[peak ether]

The fact that there’s a distinction between their organs and the warframe exterior doesn’t that sort of indicate it’s kind of like a suit?

[lean garden]

not really, umbra had a vestigial eye, but the eye structure nonetheless, does that make him a suit?

[peak ether]

good point

[lean garden]

May your appendix be vestigial

[mental widget]

As long as i can remember Grineer having a hard time to keep their existed DNA intact Because they dont have Proper way to keep it sustain. in the old times The facility was owned by the orokin and now the orokin has perish , since there is no hope for that, they makes 3 General plan to survive : 1.Augmeneted body parts (vay Hek -Sargas Ruk) , 2.Studying warframe (Cpt.Vor) , 3.Augmentation DNA using Kuva (The profesor i forget his name - The Queen)

[north jolt]

Showed this in the 1999 group but figured it was more approrpiate to go more into it here. I find these lines interesting because it's always been weird to me how the warframes, despite seemingly just being "infested meatpuppets" always displayed their own kind of "personalities" for lack of a better term, while being piloted by the Tenno, especially where their idle animations are concerned. I always suspected that despite mostly being inert or unconscious there's still SOMETHING in there, even outside of Umbra or Stalker or Jade, like all of the frames

[candid lagoon]

that explain why all the warframe have it unique agile animation

[north jolt]

Yeah that's basically what Im getting at. But I wonder, how does this extend to copies of the frames ?

Is there like some kind of ancestral memory thing going on? can bits and pieces of a person's mind be copied and passed on too during warframe manufacturing?

[peak ether]

Their blueprints probably have their mannerisms ingrained in them

[north jolt]

Probably yeah, which could at least partly explain the mess that is Valkyr's lore. Maybe

[limber pulsar]

one of the blueprint parts you use are neuroptics for a reason

[candid lagoon]

if u dont know wf we using rn is 3rd gen
1st gen is setient wf who have their mind intact - well some of it
2nd gen is umbra
3rd gen is where we get their blueprint and make "copy"

[north jolt]

Tbh I thought that was just for like sight and vision stuff. Never really thought about it like that

[peak ether]

Isn’t umbra just an exception?

[candid lagoon]

since this is copy the bp should come w the wf personality and stuff since we can use their skill

[lean garden]

Thats inaccurate, umbra is not 2nd gen, umbra is the same generation as our post-tenno frames

[candid lagoon]

ah right not umbra - he was 1.5 something

[peak ether]

Yeah thats what I’m thinking

[lean garden]

there is no real generational split between the warframes made from humans and the warframes we replicate from blueprints

[peak ether]

3rd Gen would be Orion / (can’t remember the other name)

[lean garden]

sirius

now that is a unique generation

[peak ether]

And probably the only frame of its generation

[lean garden]

literally one of a kind

[limber pulsar]

mainly yea, but it wouldnt be a stretch to think warframes have something resembling a brain. just in an effectively vegetative state that only has minor effects like the anination sets

[peak ether]

Until Jade Prime is released and ballas decided to design a baby warframe inside

[north jolt]

Which I could be wrong, but I think even those are made from "humans" or at least cloned human bodies used as a foundation

[lean garden]

nah, you would be wrong thanks to the wonders of the dating system

lemme see if I can find the appropriate screenshots

[peak ether]

Yeah the KIM messages have dropped so much lore outside of the main story

[limber pulsar]

cant wait for orokin archive to have everything transcribed

[lean garden]

Here we go

ethically sourced meatsuits

[north jolt]

TBF, it would be very in character for the Orokin to just literally mass manufacture blank-slate human bodies to turn into Warframes, cause what are ethics?

[peak ether]

My only worry about the Lore in those KIM messages is that they could change depending on your choice of dialogue when the Hex members ask for your opinion about stuff

[north jolt]

Oh yeah I actually already had this convo with him. I thought it just meant they weren't using LIVE humans anymore, but like "lab grown" human bodies I guess you could say? for building warframes

[lean garden]

I think generally the main concepts are identical, just the way you describe them changes

[peak ether]

Fair, we’ll just have to wait for the whole system to be recorded

[limber pulsar]

if that was the case we wouldnt need so many materials to build frames

[north jolt]

I mean its not JUST meat tho, there's a bunch of cybernetic stuff attached to the meat suits too

[peak ether]

My take is that we’re creating the body inside for the base and building the frame around it so no humans were forced to turn into wfs but they contain the same base

[limber pulsar]

warframes are all made of metallic infestation flesh. theres no difference between the metal and the cybernetics

[north jolt]

Yeah that's more or less what I think (not sure if I got that across well)

[candid lagoon]

we use infested flesh to create wf in foundry

since we got helminth in the ship already

[north jolt]

Also I have a bit of headcanon that's just silly and funny to me, so don't take it seriously

But I like to think that the reason Cyte-09 "disappeared" without a trace was because Albrecht yoinked him to take him back to 1999 :p

"You're coming with me"

[stiff fable]

I figured all the people who had Cyte Warframes just used that skill set to go to ground early on

[manic horizon]

What exactly are the blue droplets with eyes?

[stiff fable]

hahaha. So, Microsoft Word had a mascot in the 90s and 2000s called Clippy.

It was very annoying and also everywhere.

Warframe 1999 is our 1999 with the serial numbers filed off. So their version of Clippy is instead "Drippy".

[candid lagoon]

damn i old af

[stiff fable]

don't remind me

[humble sierra]

I think this puts a nail in the coffin of the difference between Operator and Drifter. ||Both took the deal, only Operator got Void Powers and Drifter didn’t.||

[silk atlas]

Zariman tablet in Duviri rolling in its grave rn

[humble sierra]

Zariman tablet had pretty much the same information, except people kept saying it was somehow too vague

[sick ingot]

Drifter had a brother??

[silk atlas]

If you want Drifter to have a sibling, sure

[humble sierra]

The Drifter has a sibling. The Drifter does not have a sibling. Through Eternalism, both are true.

[lean garden]

Copium was too addictive

[restive river]

Sibling, its not specified afaik

[restive river]

Are we sure that’s how that works?
The dialogue exists either way as an option we can tell the Hex, we’re not choosing which is true and which is false

[lean garden]

I've seen a dialogue option where its either "yea I had one" or "well, its more like us zariman kids were raised close"

[restive river]

Interesting
I mean both of those can be true

[silk atlas]

It's not about it being true/false, it's you picking the other option leaving it in the air that Drifter being an only child isn't not false. (Lord I hate double negatives)

[restive river]

I guess, I perceive the options as what our Drifter is thinking about saying

[woven coyote]

I remember clippy

[woven coyote]

Go watch duviri paradox again
All flashbacks had two children

[restive river]

The anger one didnt

Nor did the envy one, though it did have other kids

[woven coyote]

It didnt? I swear i remember it having them

[restive river]

I just watched a friend play through Duviri

I def need to check again but the ones that have other kids it seems to just be other general Zariman kids

I think they’re different each time but I’m not as sure on that cause I missed the joy cutscene

[stiff fable]

Yeah it's supposed to be Drifter as the "main" one and then generic Zariman kids

but there's nothing saying that one of the others can't be a sib

[silk atlas]

Happiness just had everyone at a party and Envy was the one kid with the two adults and Drifter malding at the end of the stage or whatever.

[restive river]

Ye

There wasn’t any hint of a sibling tbh

Which is why the thrax is our sibling theory seems so outlandish

[stiff fable]

I also figured the sib would have been much younger or older because the family photo is just the parents iirc

uh? Thrax is the toy tho'

[restive river]

Though maybe not so much now

[restive river]

Oh yeah no he def is

Doesnt thrax have a story about siblings

[stiff fable]

yeah but there's three siblings

[restive river]

Cause I could see Thrax being a combination of the story character and our siblings conceptually embodied as one

Oh
Nevermind then lol

[stiff fable]

and it's about the nature of betrayal and expectations

if anything it's about Wally screwing over the Drifter with the deal

[woven coyote]

I guess i was overly impressed by the family motiff in joy and envy

Completely remade that diorama in my memory

[restive river]

You conceptually embodied it to be different lol

[woven coyote]

Lol yeah

[restive river]

I do hope we get more on our sibling

Maybe they’re younger actually!

Since they arent in the photo

[woven coyote]

Still its pretty interesting to see drifter tell more of their past in the chats

[woven coyote]

That reminds me of the zariman family photo where the father and mother are holding a baby

[restive river]

Yeah thats the one I’m talking about

Cause the baby is us

I wonder if the Operator remembers their siblings
Or
If their sibling is still alive

If they were a lot younger maybe they didnt

The way Cav talks about the kids it sounds like not all of them survived

[woven coyote]

Yeah

[stiff fable]

a huge chunk were dead by the time Operator was holed up in the classroom

[woven coyote]

Ugh i know DE keeps these things open so they dont write themselves into a corner but i really wish we got some more closure on those things

[restive river]

They love their locked doors

[woven coyote]

Cue players locking themselves out of their dormizones

[restive river]

[silk atlas]

Key word "had" in one of the KIM convos I had with Eleanor talking about the whole sibling issue with her

[restive river]

Still so funny we can do that

[restive river]

I was talking about the Operator not the Drifter

[silk atlas]

Same deal until the deal, no?

[restive river]

I mean
Maybe?

What are the facts we know about our sibling?

[silk atlas]

They existed (if we're going in the Drifter had a sibling route).
Guess that's it.

[restive river]

So who knows on the Operator’s end

It’s possible they died prior to the deal taking place in which case both versions of us lost the same sibling

[woven coyote]

Emphasis on past tense too

[silk atlas]

I would expect Operator to remember them better since they've been in stasis in a comparatively short time after the incident.

[restive river]

If they died it could be another thing Margulis shut out from us

[woven coyote]

But then we have the second dream and the mess that made of our memories

[restive river]

Perhaps its something thats still locked away

A deeper trauma, losing someone even closer to us
Our parents are one thing, but our sibling

[silver tapir]

I get the feeling that the countessa comic is a reference to the vampirella comic...

[restive river]

I think so yeah

Which is funny cause I named my vampire kavat that ages ago lmao

[stiff fable]

oh huh I was thinking Red Sonja

[silver tapir]

Now I have the urge to read vampirella ...

[humble sierra]

Yep family photo with two parents and a baby— the faces are all covered by dark but the picture actually changes color depending on your cosmetics (including the suit)

[river tangle]

those hacked emails regarding on lyne...

that looks like kinda reminded me of something

[fresh quarry]

what about them

Lol i just realized that in one of the hacked chat messages doktor entrati is called doktor friday

and in 1999 december 31st was a friday

[humble sierra]

And the update came out on Friday December the 13th

[stiff fable]

ahem
2024-12-13 = 1999

[timber kestrel]

curious if the hand sign is supposed to indicate anything other than "we're cool now" towards loid

[stiff fable]

just that I think. Maybe that the Vessels are back under Albrecht's control?

[digital grail]

No it's drifter using transference albrechts off to f about more

[fresh quarry]

alright lore update since hex are able to have intimate relations with the drifter and eluding to the use of reproductive organs then that means protoframes and possibly protoframes byt extension are able to do intimate acts edit:I MEAN WARFRAMES BY EXTENSION

thank you for coming to my ted talk

[river tangle]

not too related but it sounds like some sort of dem shady, dark secrets of a boyband manager named lou pearlman

[lean garden]

Protoframes and protoframes by extension

[fresh quarry]

AUGH

[untold kernel]

What did hunhow mean by "Raise the dead?"
With reference to new war
He was saying archons want to raise the dead

[fresh quarry]

well he does seem to be able to reanimate dead sentients

[untold kernel]

Archons can do that?

[fresh quarry]

so maybe archons can do it as well

[untold kernel]

But he says "only they have rhe power to do it"

[fresh quarry]

Oh wait i forgot they wanted to revitalize their entire civilization

eat the sun power up the dead mother sentitent and then use it?

[graceful swan]

The Archons want to find Natah and bring her back to life which they can do but Drifter can’t

[tall trout]

ok so i hope im not missing something here, but is major rusalka just wally?

as in did major rusalka exist as a person at all, or was it one of wally's personalities all along?

[humble sierra]

She exists and Wally is possessing her and using her as a gateway to 1999

[sage moat]

Did rusalka just wake up one day able to shapeshift?

[graceful swan]

No that was Wally

[sage moat]

Oh so does rusalka just black out sometimes

She walks into the room to interrogate entrati then wakes up outside the room like "well that was strange!"

[humble sierra]

She’s likely entirely possessed, up until we confront her and Albrecht tells us to kill her— at this moment she doesn’t appear to know who we are

She was likely possessed some time after the comic though

[sage moat]

Do you think Stalker has an umbra transference bolt and that's why he can move around or is he just Like That

[untold kernel]

Oh okay thanks

Hey need a bit of help
So I'm being made to chose between drifter and tenno
If I choose tenno, will I be able to use my Warframes? And if I chose drifter I won't be able to do so?

[graceful swan]

Both get to use frames

[lean garden]

Possible, but its possible hes just mad enough

[untold kernel]

Is the change permanent?

[sage moat]

Just for TNW

[untold kernel]

Alright thanks guys

[sage moat]

Np

[dark saddle]

I dont understand warframe’s story at all. We keep junping into a whole different timeline every new quest

[digital grail]

No we don't there's plenty of lore guides too

[humble sierra]

Yeah the story gets crazy but it’s not like there’s no rhyme or reason for it

[untold kernel]

Guess what, new war is over

[digital grail]

New war has been over

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-albrecht-entrati-you-are-late-whispers-in-the-walls-gif-14925983810522853958

[untold kernel]

It's ait never too late

[brisk imp]

I've got a problem with understanding duviri. In the dating app it's clearly stated that Drifter was alone in there and that it's a place created from his memory alone, yet we've got teshin there and traces left by Entrati

[lean garden]

Drifter didnt have anybody he actually knew in there until the events of the duviri paradox

[limber pulsar]

entrati only went there eithout ever meeting the drifter driectly and teshin only met them at the start of the duviri paradix quest, which was after hundreds or thousands of years of being in there alone

[graceful swan]

Teshin didn’t meet Drifter until New War happened and he was thrown into the Void and with Albrecht it is 100% possible for a person to live in a place without meeting every single person that lives there

[feral cape]

Also temporal acausality does make some events hard to pin down like wether drifter would know kullevero or not

[candid elm]

Not to mention that they probably weren't allowed to explore meaning they wouldn't get to meet albrecht or most anyone else save for the executioner and dominus

[sly pagoda]

you know now I am wondering if the lyrics of the two On-Lyne songs are less about becoming infested and more about being replaced by their infested doppelgangers.

[candid elm]

That's what I'm thinking

Also having played the quest, party of your lifetime pretty much spells everything out

Makes me wonder how Involved in everything they are

[sly pagoda]

Sounds like the boys themselves are not involved in the creation of the coda. The manager from the record company wants perfectly controllable little money makers.

[chilly iron]

Where do you think they're keeping them? Locked up in a basement somewheres? Barricaded in their dressing room?

The OG boys, not the coda I mean

[sly pagoda]

Based on the last email the coda was not quite ready for being seen so maybe still touring

[quartz parrot]

So r we friends with the stalker now

[graceful swan]

(greeting the Tenno) "Ordis hopes the Stalker will give up his vendetta one day, just as Ordis did. Perhaps he too will grow weary of— CLEANING UP BLOOD."

[sterile lotus]

We are on the Orokin solar system? what solar system are we on?

[chilly iron]

Sol, we're in the Sol System :D

[hearty cosmos]

found out some interesting stuff on a pc by Aoi, and Amir definitely has tech skills, pc on the counter to her right.

one thing's for sure, the on lyne crew became outdated when the tech rot arrived

[tall echo]

Origin, not orokin

[north jolt]

Kalymos is a huge kitty

[restive river]

Love that it’s not that the boys were infested but that their DNA was used to make their infested replacements

[mental flume]

So do we know why the protoframes look like already built warframes I thought the technocyte virus formed the warframe based on the person

[silk atlas]

1. The Hex members are pretty on the nose when it comes to the frame their based on so idk what you mean.
2. Not a hard and fast "rule." Gara was just because Ballas thought it'd be funny to mess with Nihil

[chilly iron]

I believe it's also implied that Albrecht brought the specific strains of helminth with him to give the hex members

Since they are links to the big Vessel

[north jolt]

Something I noticed like with Lettie is that some of the members only look partially transformed even below the neck. Like Lettie you can still see somewhat normalish looking legs below the knees on her

[restive river]

Albrecht used specific samples from the Warframes, it sounds like there may have been different batches too

He took the Excalibur strain and injected it into Arthur for example

He wasn’t making new Warframes, just altering the process for his purposes

[mental flume]

That makes a lot of sense tbf

[silk atlas]

That... would've been a cleaner answer yeah

[north jolt]

Also are the proto frames in some way reliant on void energy to power their abilities or nah?

[restive river]

Yes, they are void attuned

[mental flume]

Considering that the drifter can use transference with them I’d say yeah

[restive river]

I recall a discussion with one of the members about the heart though I don’t recall specifics

[restive river]

Void energy is not needed for transference

[north jolt]

I just asked cause I had a theory in mind but I wanted to make sure I actually understood how the proto's powers worked first

[restive river]

The protos most likely have transference bolts though

[restive river]

They’re void attuned and possibly are somehow powered by the heart of deimos in the future

It doesn’t sound like Albrecht made a second heart

[sage moat]

Bad news, DE actually are winning a Grammy
PART OF YOUR LIFETIME is a triple entendre. It references the coda, its a generic boyband song, and it can be read as an overview of 1999's plot
"Something big is coming, but it's just the beginning"
"Now that you're invested, we're turning up the heat"
"Once we hit the scene there's no turning back" (loop reference?)

[restive river]

Wait why is that bad news what

[mental flume]

I thought that was something added with the later blueprints of warframes

[sage moat]

It was a joke its actually great news that they wrote this song so well

[restive river]

It’s never said specifically but that’s def what I theorize to be the case
Technically we don’t know that much about transference bolts ngl

We can extrapolate info from Umbra’s since his works in reverse but thats kinda it

If I had to guess Albrecht affixed the members with transference bolts so transference would even be possible with the Hex

[north jolt]

Y'all should just play it at random around friends and family and see who actually buys it just being a typical boy band song

[restive river]

Drifter suggests it could be so they’d have Warframes in 1999 but ofc we don’t know Albrecht’s exact intentions
It is probably that though

[restive river]

Oh
I wish they would win a grammy for it its so good

[north jolt]

Right cause didn't he say something before in one of his journals or whatever about not being able to bring fully crafted warframes back in time, but he was able to bring the technocyte and other Orokin tech with him?

[restive river]

What?

I dont remember that first part

[north jolt]

I'm asking cause I don't know if I'm remembering it right

[restive river]

He also would have no use for full warframes

[restive river]

I don’t think thats right

The Hex double as a unit for Albrecht and as our Warframes in 1999

He modifies the bikes for them for example

[north jolt]

I didn't even know the bikes were modified

[restive river]

Yeah, he modified them with void energy

Or he mentions it at least

I think he def did since they exhibit the void effect when you spawn them and their base energy color is void colored

[sage moat]

Albrecht basically did exactly what Ballas was trying to do, which is neat

[restive river]

Eh, Ballas wanted to make warframes

Albrecht only designed one new Warframe

[north jolt]

I mean if he was able to bring fully built frames with him back to the past, why not do that? Instead of what he did with the Hex?

[restive river]

He modified Ballas’ design for the protos

[restive river]

They’d be inert and useless
Or feral monsters
Either way, useless

Also like
Its really obvious love is integral to fighting Wally

By infesting the Hex and pushing us and them together we can grow closer and have a fighting chance

By having the Hex they can act individually and now there’s a team alongside us
If it was just normal warframes then thats not much of a team

[north jolt]

Maybe but if he suspected the Tenno might have a need for them once they're in the past couldn't he of just stashed a couple away somewhere and be like "oh hey btw if you need a frame once you arrive find one hidden at XYZ location" ?

[restive river]

Why do that though?
We clearly can bring our own frames later on
And again, our closeness to the Hex is integral to his plan

[north jolt]

True

[restive river]

Its not just about having our frames

Its about having friends

[limber pulsar]

he also just wanted to experiment with combining technocyte with the helminth, which ended up making the vessels

[restive river]

The vessels also somehow being integral

I mean the vessels are somehow related to our link to 1999 so that helps too

And it seems like they’re gonna be used to fight Wally more directly at some point
I mean
We kinda already did in Whispers

[cinder cliff]

On that note, the rest of my clan came up with a list of RP reasons the Hex would hate my character and told me not to play anymore, out of respect for their headcanon where I get kicked out, fail to bond with them, and their characters get to date Aoi and Eleanor instead.

just...sharing that.

[restive river]

We know this is cause they’re connected to their respective hex members ofc, I’m more curious about the exact details of it

[restive river]

Huh??
You need a new clan that sounds toxic

[cinder cliff]

Probably. I embarrassed my sister when she made me come to deep archimedia last night so I had it coming

I swear I thought it was netracells

[restive river]

Uh

That doesn’t sound good

I would leave that clan ngl

[cinder cliff]

Difficult. The leader is my IRL sister, I didn't mean a sister of parvos

but uh, this is the lore channel, sorry, I'll stop. If you want to tell me to join another clan we can pick it up in another channel?

[restive river]

Like it sounds like you made a mistake so they made a list of reasons the Hex would hate your character and told you not to play anymore

[restive river]

Yeah no I got that

It sounds like a toxic situation from my third party perspective I won’t lie

[cinder cliff]

Okay. Sorry.

[restive river]

Don’t apologize, you didnt do anything wrong

It sounds like they’re the ones at fault, what they did clearly bothered you and that’s not okay

They told you to stop playing cause you made a mistake??
That’s horrible

[fresh quarry]

thats like the worst kinds of warframe players

no offense

[cinder cliff]

That part was a joke, I just can't do 1999 content with them

I shouldn't make jokes when I'm upset, they always sound real.

[restive river]

You’re okay, you’re clearly upset about this and what they did clearly is not okay

[fresh quarry]

jesus they need to understand its just a game

[north jolt]

I guess what Im getting at is there was a misunderstanding on my part cause I thought you was implying that Albrecht intended for the Hex to eventually become meat puppets for US, anticipating we would end up in 1999 mostly unarmed (obviously that wasn't the case though his plans were a lot deeper then that)

[restive river]

It sounds like a tough situation cause your actual sibling is involved but what they did wasn’t right at all as it clearly has upset you

[restive river]

Yeah, I doubt he ever intended for the Hex to become just meat puppets for us to use as our connection is vital for this war

[north jolt]

Also minor question but still wonder: During the quest when Amir is going down, what's actually happening to him? is it a stroke, a heart attack?

[restive river]

Panic/anxiety attack

We help calm him down

His was my favorite ngl just because of how well they did it

[north jolt]

Also I don't see why the radiation flooding was a big deal all it does is just enable friendly fire

[restive river]

Har har

The Hex are still human so it def is more damaging to them than a typical Warframe

[north jolt]

But for real, the first time didn't Amir get shot by Entrati?

[graceful swan]

Friendly fire is a bad thing in Warframe

[restive river]

Yes

[north jolt]

Okay so the second time he has the panic attack

[restive river]

Second time he had a panic/anxiety attack because there wasn’t enough time