#Want your input on weak units for testing.🧪

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tiny spoke
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Hey people! Hope you doing well!

Requesting the community to give me a list of weak units that need testing to see how they can be improved.

  • Wanting your *input * 🔌 on a specific unit with a general idea of what you want tested on said unit
  • If a post about a unit intrigues me I'll use this emote = 🤔
  • Eventually get around to modifying the stats of the unit (IRL Time constraints will cause delay)
  • If intrigued I might reply to said user's suggestion with a video showcasing the test with said modified stats

Heads up: Still relatively new to lua coding, mostly modify lua scripts of units.
Personal request: This is a hobby to me. Not a job. Please don't make it feel like one for me.

Purpose of this as well is to have a place for the community to discuss weak units and ideas on how to improve them. Good for data collection!

One the main goals from this post is help Seth's community patches but also bring awareness on weak units that are forgotten. Also to consider on units the community haven't figured out how to improve said units yet.

Hoping this thread will cause active discussion on weak units that need balancing. Personally enjoy going through the process and discussion on units that need attention and ideas.🧪

Again, doing this for fun in my free time (which is very limited currently)

(Will most likely be actively editing this list.)

balance-l-1883928356.jpg
desert cape
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Suggestion: Give the Sprinter a second Weapon with EMP damage

Description:

Add a secondary EMP weapon to the Sprinter. This would give the unit more utility, make it feel unique compared to the Pawn, and reward skilled play.

Reasoning:

  • Increases Micro Potential: Players can choose when to use the EMP, adding strategic depth.
  • Differentiates from Other Units: The EMP effect makes the Sprinter stand out in its role.

As far as I know this idea was already mentioned in another thread but never tested.

tiny spoke
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Want your input on weak units for testing.🧪

tiny spoke
tiny spoke
dapper lark
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for how expensive and time consuming it is to do a cortex commando run, they have such little health in my opinion

unreal pineBOT
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Commando (`cormando`)

Stealthy Paratrooper Bot

Faction: cortex Cortex
Health: 1'560 hp
Cost: 1'200 M / 15'500 E / 24'000 B
Speed: 75 / 362 accel / 193° per sec turning
Vision: 600 / 900 (air)
Radar: 900
Jamming: 150
Energy made: 10 E/sec
E store: 20 E

Builder

Build power: 200
Range: 275

Weapons

CommandoBlaster
DPS: 200 (100 dmg, 0.50s reload)
Range: 300 (70 splash)
Can hit: Boats, Ground

Model by: FireStorm | generated in 7ms | updated every 4 hours
onyx sky
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Legion:
Satyr. More specifically fighting plasmas from other factions and centurions.

Arquebus (t2 spider railgun sniper).

Praetorian (devs alrd mentioned shotgun needs a small buff)

Martyr suicide drone (hard to trade for value)

Telchine

Cortex
Juggernaut (compared to titans theyre kinda meh)

Armada Banshee, Turtle

versed citrus
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Suggestion: make sumo 4 units faster, range 100 longer and revert the hp buff.

Reasoning: the sumo isnt directly a bad unit but its not particularly good at any of its intended functions, The sumos purpose is to defend against spam, tank damage to push Into fortified areas, and be a defensive wall.

Its only kind of good at the last one under the circumstance of your enemy is just moving directly into you with 0 micro. Its awful range and speed make it generally underwhelming as anti spam, both because it struggles to catch spam, but its also not actually very hard to overwhelm a handfull of sumos when you combine the bad range with their single shot percison weapon type.

They aren't a very good defensive wall because they are simply to easy to kite, and against a non brain dead opponent will never have any opportunity for retaliation. Even against shorter ranged combat units like tigers.

They aren't absolutely terrible for pushing into fortified areas, but their speed makes it very difficult for sumos to have any impactful map presence especially on bigger maps or even medium ones.

They are not a bad unit nor all that problematic but they are lacking in pretty much every intended use case, the 10%hp buff was disappointing and a lazy way to sweep sumo under the rug, and It would be so much more fun to have a real Trifecta between sumo, fiend, and Sheldon instead of making mostly just sheldon and fiend and then eventually skipping to mammoth most games

plain bridge
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Sumo needs range to be usable

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Sumo has a very high DPS, however its pitiful range and speed make the rest of its stats useless as it just gets kited forever, even by frontline units like mace, recluse, ect

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sumo can be good at defending your artillery from enemy charges, but there are plenty of other units which do that so much more cost effectively and with higher speed

desert cape
versed citrus
plain bridge
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yeah the per shot cost is also a lot more significant than other units

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sumo just has stacked disadvantages making it near useless relative to other unitas

versed citrus
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I dont know what range would be appropriate, but i think they should atleast at bare minimum be 375

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Even the short range units like tigers can infinitly kite, I think the last time I got sumo value was spamming them on mass in early t2 on forged

plain bridge
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1 sumo costs 1.5 sheldon which is not even close to an equal in usefulness

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pounder beats sumo for artillery protection and costs so much less

versed citrus
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Most of them time i just use twitchers to build twin guards as i advance over making sumos

tiny spoke
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I have considered lately to give sumos slow moving burst rockets or even grenades.

The laser on them seems not that interesting or fitting.

worn sinew
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If you gave it a second weapon in the unitslua, you can change that to fireweapon 2 and it should shoot it, but then it wont use its original gun.

versed citrus
# tiny spoke I have considered lately to give sumos slow moving burst rockets or even grenade...

They need something, im not against more experimental changes but i really think they should get a 4 speed increase and 100 range increase just to see how it plays out, I personally think the Lazer makes sense, them having percise high single target dps makes sense to me both for 1 tapping spam and for bursting down things quickly that get to close, I dont like the idea of them potentionally killing your own units when they are primarily a defensive unit

tiny spoke
tiny spoke
worn sinew
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Nope.... peperip (Well not if you want both to be able to fire)

tiny spoke
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I want both to fire from sprinters gun

worn sinew
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Then you have to create an animation for it in the COB file. I don't know how hard that may or may not be tbh, Id imagine if you know some basic blender its doable

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and I may not be 100% correct on this, its just what Ive been learning and being told as I have been trying to sort through what all we can really do in this area.

tiny spoke
worn sinew
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I think so.... I can't get a clear answer and lack general knowledge about animations but that is what I have gathered froma sking in the dev channels and looking into it.

tiny spoke
versed citrus
tiny spoke
versed citrus
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Really dont need any fancy solutions imo just give it like 4 more speed and atleast 100 range and just see how it plays, prolly revert the hp buff tho

plain bridge
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imo it can keep current speed and hp but really should get the range buff

tiny spoke
plain bridge
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I think sumo could get 435 range to match LLT range, its a significant increase but it would give the unit an identify of a mobile LLT albeit at high cost

tiny spoke
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Neat concept

plain bridge
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might need lower dps then as 344 is a bit high, especially on a laser weapon which doesnt miss, even when considering it does less damage at max range

still though, it absolutely needs as much range as we can reasonably give it to make it usable

versed citrus
tiny spoke
plain bridge
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See, Mammoth has range and is therefore actually a decent unit and sees use in higher levels of play

whereas sumo is never built, ever

versed citrus
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I like your idea a lot because it still has an exploitable weakness of being slow but it becomes a real, actually threatening assault bot like it should be

plain bridge
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yeah

honestly, next up on the list should be welder, which isn't in as awful a spot because it has speed and costs less and has multi attack from lightning but still deserves a bit more range as well, not as much as sumo, since welder has more speed, but something

versed citrus
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I dont think welder is a problem its pretty good at its 1 intended function of killing spam

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If there's any armada bot that needs love its gunslinger, but there's a whole thread on that

tiny spoke
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Can you gentlemen give me a bulleted list of changes to apply to sumo?

Ill most likely be able to change and showcase the sumo changes no problem.

versed citrus
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Id say

  • range from 275 to 435
  • speed from 38 to 40
  • potentially lower the dps if too strong
  • revert the 10%hp buff
tiny spoke
plain bridge
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yea a 10% hp buff would bring 5400 to 5940

tiny spoke
plain bridge
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756m in pawn vs 560 in sumo eh

i'd agree it can keep the health, ideally it'd do a bit better than that

tiny spoke
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Kinda curious if it needs slightly faster reload speed as well.

plain bridge
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flanking pawns attacking all grouped up then circling is a very ideal situation for the pawns

whereas the sumo is static and isnt kiting backwards

i understand the limits given you can only control 1 set of units at a time

generally stacking pawns in such a ball on the frontline isnt advisable as they'll eat shots from other units like maybe a fatboy or tsar or even just hounds

i still think keeping the 10% hp buff is fair, just also saying that i dont expect sumo to win under this testing scenario

tiny spoke
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Sumo seem they thrive when there's a formation holding the line.

plain bridge
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yeah

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unlike pawn sumo doesnt die to AOE, which is a big advantage, being put against grunt ball really puts sumo in the worst case scenario

in the given scenario I think sumo being able to win against an equal metal cost in grunts just barely is fair

versed citrus
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Kinda curious how they face off between a row of tigers and a row of sumo

versed citrus
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If this buff went through on main I'd be so excited, sick of sumo being a noob trap unit as a core bots enjoyer

tiny spoke
versed citrus
tiny spoke
tiny spoke
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Think it would be fun to rename the sumo to "(Barely) mobile turret" or "Mobile turret"

desert cape
tiny spoke
tiny spoke
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If the sumo is getting a range increase, his reload speed might need to get a nerfed by like 0.1 - 0.2 maybe.

worn sinew
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Are you checking the range increase vs walk time of units to see which ones you are actualy effecting by giuving the Sumo an additional shot or not? The DPS on a range increase might be essentially 0 in alot of cases

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If you give a range buff but decrease reload, you are essentially nerfing the units real performance for an opportunity cost buff

tiny spoke
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Tbh I haven't thought that far ahead. Just started on this sumo changes since yesterday.

worn sinew
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SO if you want to make them more effective vs spam - give them a range buff, then you need to ensure that the addtional range actualy trasnlates to an addtional shot, and see if the intial shot range increase is signficant DPS to a scout HP pool

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If you just hand them more range and say- thats good - then what happens when the first shot is now max range for like nearly 0 damage, and the reload time is longer -- so now the enemy unit gets closer and gets more hits in before the second reload kills them; Now you have buffed the range but nerfed its real world use case

tiny spoke
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Yeah that's fair point. Remembered that same scenario with my turtle testing. Better dps with faster reload and range. Not to mention the kiting of a unit as well.

worn sinew
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Every unit in BaR that is hit scan, with range, and HP has historicaly been an issue.

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Think Centurion, Decurion, RazorBack -- so if you want to give the sumo range and movement, you need to be hitting its HP pool rather than its reload most likely. The other big inhibitor of power is LoS and range.

tiny spoke
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Yeah alot of things to consider. We'll just see how people to respond to this version first. #1467038144128880732 message

pliant nova
tiny spoke
pliant nova
tiny spoke
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Laser duration Im not sure either.

pliant nova
tiny spoke
pliant nova
tiny spoke
pliant nova
# tiny spoke

tyyyy ❤️ i feel the laser last help a bit and range still balanced

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i'll use it for the next cbp this one too late to get enough vote prbly

tiny spoke
versed citrus
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I think some form of speed increase is needed specifics im not sure

pliant nova
versed citrus
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D gun still out ranges

tiny spoke
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I want to combine both your suggestions. I think Todd's and cookie your idea could meld well together.

versed citrus
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What do you mean exactly, like faster speed and longer beam time?