#Easy Sharing Tax modoption - feedback/discussion

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

torn cloud
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But maybe lab/con if twitcher gaming being fed by someone else who already has a lab... Is OP?

digital anchor
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Yeah lab is also a bad idea. Then the best strategy would be to go T2, reclaim lab and build fiends/persecutor with twitcher.

torn cloud
digital anchor
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I guess hmm. Well I suppose someone could try a modoption like that. It's essentially same as all the other "you need to build this building to enable sharing" proposals that have been made, just with some tax added for flavour.

torn cloud
prime solar
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🤔 I like it

torn cloud
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I just hate all these 'we need tax, but not tax on this, stun it, but don't stun that, exceptions on exceptions.'

prime solar
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It's classic human.

All things I do is moral. All things I do not do are immoral

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People who share more than me are filthy commie who ruin the game.

People who share less are fucking noobs who doesn't cooperate and losing us the game

open scaffold
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People still don't understand why commie ruins competitive integrity... I don't care if you share to dead player. It's about opening 20 winds before T1 lab, gaming...

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it would be same as if you could give your HP to your best fragger in CS go so they can survive AK 47 headshot, they can just play ruthless totally stepping over normal boundaries, and people would call it teamwork

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Just cause something requires multiple amount of players does not mean it's teamwork or good for the game

open scaffold
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Here we go again. Sharing unboosted tzar for somebody to micro does almost no harm to powerspike. Having tzar at 3:45 is totally different issue...

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having t2 mex or t2 unit early totally changes gamepace and requires enemy team to do the same (sacrafice 1 players agency). Thats just lose situation for competitive pubs and most people don't want to play this and in end nobody does (lobby dies).

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sharing few grunts to ally in early game does no harm why would you need building for that? Your team still has normal tech tempo just that somebody else controls 3 grunts...

lethal vine
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You provide these suggestions with no argument. No justification for how these things improve the game or even their intent. Besides that they’re not good ideas

torn cloud
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It stops things people don't like. I keeps things people do like. It's just an idea.

open scaffold
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we are having a blast 4v4 op lobby with easy tax, haven't had this much fun in bar since i started

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Lobby fills every day

lethal cove
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same small team with easytax is peak fun

slate rover
sterile adder
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The stun lock after sharing is stupid and ruins the flow of the gameplay. Need option for tax without stun.

or maybe add stun if same unit/building is shared back and forth more than once

idle fox
weak quail
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really would like the game to offer some feedback when you cant share a constructing thing because of easytax, because there have existed other bugged "can't share" bugs

long valley
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I really like the new non-stun version. While I still don't mind vanilla no tax it makes it not so painful to have tax enabled.

Now if only we could find a way to share things under construction, that's the last major qol style issue that still bugs me.

fading quail
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Sharing in-progress builds is doable but might be weirder than not

weak quail
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i dont really have an opinion on if it should be done or not, just it silently failing to share is confusing. was in a supreme lobby earlier and i didnt realize that that was part of the easy tax restrictions, so i paused because i thought there was a bug where i couldnt share trans to my seas from air spot.

i've played a lot with easy tax on rotato but this sort of thing never came up for me there. since supreme lobbies don't tend to have easy tax on

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anyway my point is that when you try to share it should say something, and play a sound effect instead of just acting like when the game has actual sharing bugs, which do happen in other circumstances

outer badger
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Sharing half built solars is potential way to bypass tax

idle fox
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you shouldn't be able to share half built anything

bitter patrol
# outer badger Sharing half built solars is potential way to bypass tax

Doesnt seem gamewinning strat, but i might be wrong. I always try to remember that the idea isnt that commie should be obliterated but competitive.

Does sharing half built solar to slowly trickle some metal really breaks this? Because as i see it, the gain is low and since you put in your BP for it, it's a cost already.

still onyx
# bitter patrol Doesnt seem gamewinning strat, but i might be wrong. I always try to remember th...

So maybe part of the problem is there probably exists some very precise building and sharing of solars that hit very specific income targets such that the bp cost of solar (which is low) doesnt matter, and the metal trickles into the cooped players supply at the right rate so that they arent stalling.

And designing a system that encourages this hyper sweaty optimization isnt ideal. There would be probably at least one pre-made of hyper sweats who master this to bully lobbies, and it would probably skew tournament play.

Or to your point, the bp cost and slow income would be enough to work as effectively as a 30% penarly when you consider the "time value of metal".

Hard to say.

true yarrow
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nah i really doubt that sharing almost built solars as a form of metal boost is in any way better than sharing completed ones for e boost and waiting 30 sec

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metal boosting very early on into the game when ppl are still spending the starting banks just generally does not make much sense and even if it did the trickle income nature of decaying buildings is a form of time tax by itself

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sharing an almost built solar is also probably much worse than sharing a mex

bitter patrol
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yeah i think it's a nonissue.

idle fox
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Unfinished blueprints should.not be shareable period

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Otherwise I can build half a fusion/rattle/tzar then give it to someone else to boost sequentially

long valley
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idc about building blueprints honestly just units from labs

bitter patrol
true yarrow
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no he is saying 2 players could split the cost of building a fus and avoid tax

bitter patrol
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ok makes sense

open scaffold
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glitters tourney killed 4v4 😢

true yarrow
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glitters tourney needs tax

signal flower
true yarrow
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yeah rip

lethal vine
idle fox
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its a mex leave map not much you can do

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but looking at the scrims you can see, coop becomes less and less fun when there's not enough things to do, and coordination becomes a bottleneck for how much the microers get to play the game
the driver is too busy? too bad you don't get units for 3 minutes
glitter full coop 8v8 seems like one of the least fun versions of the game

lethal vine
idle fox
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sad thing is it killed small teams 4v4
basically it's pick one: op ffa, op rotato, op small teams, or w/e tourney crims

rain pivot
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This honestly feels like a perfect system as it is, and I really hope nothing gets changed. Even though I have never really used a commie strategy before, this setup has actually helped me a ton in making things feel more balanced and playable. Please don’t tweak it further in ways that might make it more effective as its already super good, this version already hits the right balance.

lethal cove
idle fox
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how can you know it's balanced if you never commied?

idle fox
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i get free energy and at least 500m reclaim (I didn't ask for boost lol)

idle fox
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basically the equivalent of getting tax free shared 2 mexes and 2 solars for the first few minutes

bitter patrol
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Its just good teamplay.

weak quail
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about easy tax and ui/ux:
imo it'd be a big improvement if the bottom right share-to-player icon button, as well as the clickable text "share unit" command button on the bottom left, as well as the cursor for share unit command would alter based on the selected unit for the following states:

  • can't share (because under construction or whatever other reason)
  • can share but will be stunned
  • can share but bp will be reduced
  • can share with no restrictions

it'd also be nice if there was an audio cue for trying to share a unit that can't be shared

lethal vine
solemn anvil
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After reading the "commie" strategy, IMO sharing should just be optionally disabled for the first N minutes. And/or maybe only allow sharing a maximum of X% unit at a time (with a cooldown)

lethal vine
bitter patrol
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If the timer is 10min, it does fix stuff. You have to actually play

still onyx
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Even if the timer is like 7 minutes, maybe even 5. Isthmus pond would be totally fixed.

If you listed all strategies dependent on communism, the time they occur, and if they are disliked, youd find a strong clustering around the opening minutes. These are the strategies with little counterplay because they are high tempo and blind. You cant react or adapt.

After 10-15 minutes, very few communism strats bother people. Giving winds and bp to help a teammate recover for example. Or even sending metal to other players to deploy.

So a simple time gate has the benefit of generally blocking things disliked, while allowing many things that are liked.

true yarrow
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nah yall wrong, commied t3 would become meta eventually with time delayed sharing

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its even less risky than other commie strats due to map control already being established and dealing with 13 min t3 is an order of magnitude more difficult than dealing with solo 18min t3

idle fox
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post 10 min there are still good commie t2/t3 pushes, flagship coop being much stronger than solo flagship, feeding sea reclaim into instant mass t3 without sea player needing to scale e/bp

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coop timer has to go to 10 min at least, ideally up to 15 min

lethal vine
true yarrow
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it also opens options for all sorts of bs like communal afus building

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a single nano stack in techers base has room for the whole teams worth of afuses for a good while

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and once you have 2-3 finished continued production is trivial with metal only donations

still onyx
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Fair enough.

solemn anvil
warm cave
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You can % units restrict, then you just send the 1 fatboy or shiva

still onyx
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Nobody cares about combat unit sharing. This is just a good feature in the game. Units have travel time and micro requirements. Instant metal transmission violates this by having no map presence and the ability to leverage less team bp for better results.

warm cave
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no combat unit sharing means apm downgrade to the performance of commie strategies, and it also means player agency
but you do you

idle fox
long valley
# idle fox but it does. If i'm eco player I have no incentive not to sacrifice you for more...

Whether or not sharing is a thing I think that would happen. In 1v1 when you're in split map scenario and opponent pushes one angle, if you're stronger somewhere else and it doesn't look like it makes sense to divert forces to hold that push it may make sense to give up some ground to gain an advantage somewhere else. (pushing other side of map or making a transition to the next tier or prepping bombers etc)

Unfortunately in 8v8 giving up some ground could often mean someone's base. At least with unit sharing that person could still contribute somehow rather than just straight resign.

warm cave
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[archon mode]

chrome ravine
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archon mode would be so bad in any pub 8v8

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Someone would accidentally select all of some unit and now everyone else is fighting each other trying to fix the first mistake

gusty plume
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archon mode in pubs is just called coop