Why are Demons not fireproof?

[woven tiger]

Demons should be fireproof
-logically it would make sense to make a fireproof machine if the machines only job is to spit fire
-extra level of strategy : demons would no longer be able to kill other demons (friendly or enemy)

Game wise it feels bad if you make 2 demons (end game real t3 unit) and they just roast each other trying to kill a building

[shrewd knot]

why are bedbugs not explosion proof
why are catapults not rocket proof
why are thugs not plasma proof

[tender radish]

Why are Fiends not fireproof?
-logically it would make sense to make a fireproof machine if the machines only job is to spit fire
-extra level of strategy : fiends would no longer be able to kill other fiends (friendly or enemy)

I will use this opportunity to ask for demon self D special damage again, like the fiend has, would be the buff the need IMO and fits the theme.

[near cloak]

Do they at least have some kind of resistance to get less damage? Demons should make a fire tornado when they self-d.

[hoary pond]

Well, you usually make the part of a machine which is close to the fire fireproof, not the whole machine, as it would be way more expensive.
In this case, the end of the flamethrowers

[woven tiger]

it's a t3 melee unit...

of course it should be better than fiends/bedbugs/thugs/etc

[desert cypress]

behemoth should be immune to dgun, it’s the main weapon with 360 front (this is a joke please dont do it and I am sorry )

[hoary pond]

commanders should be immune to getting killed, because they have the strongest gun that is meant to kill anything /j

[woven tiger]

how else do we justify a giant mech unit that can't walk through water

[pine bone]

Bad game: fire units not fireproof

Good game: 20% damage reduction vs fire, shown in a tooltip somewhere

[near cloak]

Yea, some kind of resistance to have some reduction would be good enough and actually make sense. It also would make fights between demons more interesting.

[pine bone]

It definitely would be a small modifier so you're not overly punished for not knowing it. And then I do think it becomes more BAR trivia. But it wouldn't be wrong to do things that way.

[hoary pond]

flamethrowers get wet

(btw, i'm not arguing against it, i think the idea is good)

[rigid pond]

Welders and jags are actually (chain) lightning proof so there is precedent....

[woven tiger]

i did not know this. interesting

[trim plinth]

Why are fighters not AA/enemy fig proof? They shoot the same weapons as all the other AA

[warm sky]

I don't notice it as much with Fiends, but using a bunch of Demons and seeing them friendly-fire 🔥 each other with flames feels bad. Makes me not want to use them as much, even though it is a cool, flamey unit.

[near cloak]

Maybe demons should actually get HP back if they get hit by fire.

[pine bone]

No magic powers

[desert moth]

I like that BAR doesn't have damage types/armor types. It keeps things simple

[native kraken]

Flameink when Legion introduces all the crazy shit:

https://tenor.com/view/scream-scared-spongebob-afraid-gif-14366037

[pine bone]

I have other, also meme opinions, like: Walls, subs, and Behemoths should be fire immune because how are you going to bake them

[near cloak]

It would make the game more interesting if something like that were in the game

[pine bone]

I don't think it meets the qualifications for "interesting". It encourages mono-comps, and that's probably its only gameplay effect.

[near cloak]

So it would be the same as now? Atm you always see the same units at the same timings, nothing special. Demon with some resistance could actually change things up. Of course more like that would be needed.

[frozen sluice]

Let’s add random numbers and multipliers to every unit

[near cloak]

Nobody is speaking about random stuff. It can make sense. Like demon having some kind of fire resistance. It doesn't have to be 100%, but like 30-60% would already be nice to have.

[marble cosmos]

How is flamethrower AoE implemented, actually? Is it an AoE cone? Multiple circle AoEs in a row? Projectiles in a cone, shotgun-style? Something else?

I'm asking because intuitively, it would make sense that Demons are protected against some AoE "bleed" at the edges, but should be still vulnerable if they are targeted directly. So maybe their incoming damage calculation could simply use a higher range fall-off it it's fire damage?

[pine bone]

idk if we have an explainer anywhere for flamethrowers but we should

[hot escarp]

If demons had 100% fire proof then if the other team had 4 demons defending a base I would just make 1 and run on by as they rage since their demons can’t hurt mine

[near cloak]

I wouldn't go for 100%. But still 100% could be fun.

[hot escarp]

For a little yea, but I understand maybe all flamethrowers should get a little bit like 30% reduction of dmg from fire

[near cloak]

People would have to think more about units they make. Atm there isn't a lot of thinking involved. Its just like I need the dps, I just go for demon. And in general in the game at certain timings you see always the same units. There is like no real scouting and reacting.

[hot escarp]

Well there’s thinking about unit comp and other stuff but ig maybe not for you, like I only make demons as quicker and also anti spam

[near cloak]

It depends on the time in the game. Super late game is just behe spam and vanguards. And in t2 at certain timings you always see the same units. I don't see like really smart compositions or whatever.

[hot escarp]

2 units getting a small dmg reduction won’t change the main plays for most people

[near cloak]

Yea, other units would have to change as well so the game can be more fun, but the thread is only about demons.

[hot escarp]

Yea true either way my honest opinion is demons and fiends should get fire dmg reduction probably should be a bit more for the demon like 15 percent for fiend and like 30 for demons since they cost a lot more and man do they really dmg each other

Issue is cor is already strong so maybe this would throw the balance even more in cors favor

[fossil quarry]

Wait, WHAT ?
Jags/welders can't be touch by lightning 2x overshoot ?

[tribal briar]

What we need is for the fiend to put away their flamethrower and whip out a sidearm to fight other fiends

I think the BattleTech series had a really good in universe explanation.
Just like in real life, heat == bad for machinery. Cooks wires, expands joint seizing them up, softens metals, desolders circuitry.
In a real-time strategy game, abstracting overheating to HP is a good design concession for simplicity's sake.
What makes organic life forms less fire resistant is The Dinner Effect. Even the outermost layers of organic things is made of Dinner. No robots are made of Dinner and therefore not so flammable.

A case could be made that flamethrower units could be resistant to fire, however. But I'm not a big fan of BuT sOmEtImEs mechanics. It would need to be a more broadly applied rule rather than weird exception.

[green garnet]

I mean there are already some "BuT sOmEtImEs", skuttle for example can not climb hills but is a spider? atleast the icon is

Demons are already pretty strong, arguebly the best frontline t3 until titans come out

[rigid pond]

Yup, test it out, fire a Thor at 7 salamanders, lots of splash damage. Fire a Thor at 7 jags, one gets blasted but the rest are fine.

[green garnet]

a bigger self d like fiends would be fun tho

[green garnet]

thats crazy I have never noticed that

[iron apex]

Commanders 100% damage reduction to dguns is a thing too, apparently.
Can even serve as a shield to llts.

[wintry sand]

I actually tested this interaction:

Demons are immune to fire damage (including from fiends) AFTER it hits its target.

However, if the demon is in between the source and the target of the flames than it will take damage like normal.

[jade urchin]

Im pretty sure that's just because the projectiles which are being used for fire are being used up on the unit in between despite the vfx indicating potentially otherwise.

Unless it's changed recently fire is just fast plasma under the hood.

[wintry sand]

Other units take damage so that can't be it

[rigid pond]

Flames are not (particularly) aoe, so that's expected.

[heavy owl]

flame are actually shotgun but with visual of fire. no aoe

[wintry sand]

I recreated the experiment and captured it. Clearly there's a zone in the fire where demons are immune but the kargonath isn't

You can't see it here but I had the demons target fire the ground. Past the target the demon is immune, but before it they aren't

[hoary pond]

Same for the kargeneth. It only takes damage after the demon is gone from the cone

[iron apex]

Yeah you might still have some projectiles that go beyond but most are stopped at the first unit, applying damages to that first unit only. I don't think there is a hidden invulnerability with such rules; at least damage stats and the lack of a gadget that suggests this kind of behaviours make me thing it's mostly a matter of projectile being caught by the first unit.
That would enable the damages to match the vfx, but maintaining the damages stats would be painful as the amount of damages would depends not only on said stat but also the number of hit frames, which is likely to depend on target size... an balance nightmare unless you're aiming for an insta kill like dgun.

[tribal briar]

flame projectiles are anomolous. They're collision coordinates - points that when they hit deal their damage and are destroyed. The flames are deceptive. They also are tracking, so they don't miss their intended target. I would betcha most of them flame projectiles die before the very end of the cone of flames, but continue making big special effects a while longer