indigo forge
For example: Armada planes are very sensitive to any kind of damage, it is not easy to maintain the "fleet" clean.
Without an autonomous repair pad where units can direct itself to repair at will, the game will be even more dis balanced between planes from armada and cortex. Or there is another way to repair the ones who patrol without having to "fish" them from air?
potent tapir
You aware "bp turret" already auto repair any units in their range, air units included ?
Or put some rezzers in "repair circle" with "repeat on"
indigo forge
You aware "bp turret" already auto repair any units in their range, air units in...
Nope, didn't know that. But is pretty counterintuitive, and that is another problem in the matter.
Did you know that probably 90% of the people playing this game in the future (steam) will NOT be experts on it?
That probably, cavedog created the air repair pads to not make anonying maintaining air units working and focus on the game?
arctic wren
Cavedog created the air repair pads
TA had repair pads?
exotic jungle
> Cavedog created the air repair pads
TA had repair pads?
Yes. However it wouldn't make air units retreat automaticially. Just made them land and healed them if nearby and under some %hp.
indigo forge
Yes. However it wouldn't make air units retreat automaticially. Just made them l...
Thats the thing... It is easy to understand when it is available to create one and why. Everyone saying NO here are experienced players, probably even cortex players.
What im defending here is pure logical, for new and with some experience playes. The important thing is that, bsiedes logical it worked pretty well when units where on its radius.
exotic jungle
To be honest I think it's better to leave out. Construction turrets do a better job, don't actually need the plane to land, and personally the retreat function was more annoying than useful.
Though I've heard the retreat thing was quite useful for people who play PvE, against raptors and things like that, huge epic battles.
indigo forge
Though I've heard the retreat thing was quite useful for people who play PvE, ag...
Exactly!
fierce hedge
It was usefull for dragon and liche in normal games too
exotic jungle
But wouldn't you usually be microing them anyway? I guess it makes the micro a bit easier to look away from
fierce hedge
it was very niche but the repair speed on it was insane
it's not the same as using build power from nanos
but it's probably the least important thing the devs removed anyways so it's not big deal
paper mica
yeah it's mostly a QoL thing
on land it's simple enough to set up a rezbot on repeat and repair area
for air it's a lot more annoying
that said, is there an explicit "land" command?
i.e. instead of land/fly toggle, make it an "touch down here"
arctic wren
it was very niche but the repair speed on it was insane
it's not the same as using build power from nanos
You just mentioned one of (many) reasons it's gone
not nearly the main reason though
hearty orchid
I feel like this thing really only worked for scav units because of T3 air
arctic wren
That too
vast echo
My preferred dragon strategy is shot without air repair pads. - I set dragons to 50% damage they then return for repair . the air pads redirect the fixed dragons to the drop off point for new dragons set behind enemy AA range. I then manually select a batch based on which area next im going to engage. i've tried repair turrets and it sucks in comparison. Surely i can't be the only one to actively rely on the retreat to repair functionallity. Also that way over time they gain more XP
so bring back air repair pads!
unkempt fox
what about a flying repair fortress? (carrier-esque)
umbral reef
fallen pewter
Lol they got rid of the cool aircraft carriers for fishing trawlers with anti nukes... pretty much any fishing boat in the south china sea lol... but that was because we had air pads....having an airpad is definitely not as cool as having an aircraft carrier...even if u never ever actually ever saw a plane land on one... still aircraft carrier. then we get sea air pads...cool ill just keep all these aircraft I'll become personally attached to around long enough to use one ... nope... Ain't nobody got time fo dat. cool. Attack Command other side of the map, look away, build more aircraft. Secretly wishing some would return so I can land them on a sea air pad in the back line... Or they could've just landed out there with my navy... If ur a flying fish maybe u can land on my fishing charter. Why did we lose a cool ship for a less cool boat with less operational functionality... Same with hound... Who knows.
Anyways I digress . . Is boaty mcboatface cooler than the nimititz.. Nope.. Devs like " I can't understand why all the aircraft where we keep on the frontlines never use the air pad no one thinks about.. If only we something mobile that floated in a relatively safe place near the front line . bin the airpads, no one crys, a cool but then we lost a carrier for nothing... and thats worth being a bit sad about.
Also I'm fairly sure that whole paragraph makes no sense. I can't even be sure I used punctuation 😂
So i say bring back the aircraft carriers.
stark zinc
I'm gunna chime in here, since while I have a special place in my heart for the Air Repair Pad, I also have been able to talk with GDT directly about this unit.
The main struggle with this unit is mainly in how it was implemented. The retreat toggle functionality was buried in an already massive command panel, and the way it was implemented meant that aircraft would always override user input in favor of "retreating".
Generally speaking, the GDT currently leans towards refining and potentially reducing the number of unique commands a player has to utilize. Note the removal of Hound Gauss toggle.
Other problems the air pad had was its cost, size, and how it interacts with current aircraft design. It was roughly 450 metal and tons of energy to build 4 dedicated repair stations. Granted, the way that aircraft were repaired on the air pad was far more powerful compared to construction turrets. However in a design space where most air units die in two to three shots, it only made sense to build it in ultra late game scenarios for the giant airships like Dragons.
A potential avenue of re-implementation would need to make sure the UI/UX is flawless, that it makes sense to build these over other build power sources, and that it's usable in many more stages of the game.
fallen pewter
But with the aircraft carrier you got the advantage of an early repair pad, a mini fusion and its more relevant posisitioning for aircraft ( if the map had design and water that satisfied this need). Also the removal of the gauss cannon from the hound and then the subsequent nerfs to the unit made it a very unpopular build ... so it was a double death blow. And as dragons are also core units, it is again another game design decision that only benefits on faction
marble parcel
But with the aircraft carrier you got the advantage of an early repair pad, a mi...
What do hounds have to do with the balance of air units? The overall strength of a faction doesn't really matter in this context on air pads.
more relevant posisitioning for aircraft
Most aircraft die on the first engagement, or don't take any damage.
Fighters don't need repairing, so this doesn't really affect how one would position their aircraft.
-# And bombers and offensive gunships nearly always engage in suicide runs
fierce hedge
the devs hate buttons and want to remove as many as possible
gusty portal
What do hounds have to do with the balance of air units? The overall strength of...
Most aircraft die on the first engagement
That's often not true. For example the last game I spectated a ~60 OS player lost a bunch of T2 fighters because they were flying above Demons. A repair pad with the retreat thing would have saved thousand of metal worth of fighters for him.
I think it's just harder to notice if air units are in trouble since they fly around, not like when we accidentally leave ground units in range of an LLT. Maybe the damage alerts work differently for air units too, I don't know.
stark zinc
What do hounds have to do with the balance of air units? The overall strength of...
the relation of the hound in recent conversation is as an example of GDT's current design direction
indigo forge
It is kinda painful dealing with air units as it is, they are very fragile (armada) In the patrol path they are easily destroyed, so you can't just leave it there and worry on new problemas and strategies. Not to mention a direct attack called here as suicide (and i agree). Then you have to build all of it AGAIN and again.
Air units are very cool, but it use to have more balance (like in TA). Hope devs look at this because it gets lazy to play with them in the current setup.
stiff trout
I'm gunna chime in here, since while I have a special place in my heart for the ...
True, though I enjoyed finding it, not knowing what it did and discovering the air pad. This was actually after it was removed but was still accessible via seaplane arm cons only. I thought I'd found some forbidden teq to get this seaplane only building that wasn't t1 or t2 or land accessible.
stiff trout
that said, is there an explicit "land" command?
i.e. instead of land/fly toggle,...
perhaps a "attack if target sighted" basically a repeated attack command akin to patrol, but while they unit is stationed elsewhere. So landed planes will take off if a target is seen etc, then come back and land (next to BP) when inactive.
Also tbf to the devs, the repair pad was the only HP reliant instruction in the game. There is no inbuilt retreat injured units, or even a select injured units (though you can manually add a hotkey for it)
fallen pewter
the relation of the hound in recent conversation is as an example of GDT's curre...
Thats why i didn't even respond to that. I thought to myself " it fine Naut will get it 😂"
marble parcel
the relation of the hound in recent conversation is as an example of GDT's curre...
Yes, but hounds were brought up in the context of faction balance
Which was what I was criticizing
stark zinc
personally, I'd like to see air repair pads return as generalized repair pads
ruby shuttle
personally, I'd like to see air repair pads return as generalized repair pads
The current meta of 100 resbots on repair circle as medbays is kinda odd to be fair, an actual medbay would be good
fallen pewter
If you make them build fast and cheap, and perhaps even with a light ground repair nano with a tight radius, you could potentially see them pop up everywhere, becoming important strategic staging areas or high value targets. This could also potentially encourage more conscientious air control .
You could even give them a light AA weapon system like a thistle...or alternatively you could crank up the cost and equip them with a chainsaw type vibe.... but they need to be multirole functional buildings that increase the AOE's strategic advantage... this is how they will become popular.
....but also aircraft carrier...helpful for arm litch and commorant staging posts to counter heavy riptide presence...
stoic sentinel
If you make them build fast and cheap, and perhaps even with a light ground repa...
They were already quite cheap, and repaired way faster than con turrets. They were still not used much, because of the jank that the retreat brought
fallen pewter
They were already quite cheap, and repaired way faster than con turrets. They we...
I know that, repair pads have boss repair skills...for air. I specifically suggested giving it the ability to repair ground units... but only a light repair strength and with a quite a tight radius of reach.. This would encourage units and players to stage units around the structure... It could become a front line support structure.... offering advantages to fighter screens patrolling the perimeter or for bomber and other heavy aircraft retreat stages. Make it functional...Build it and they will come.
indigo forge
I know that, repair pads have boss repair skills...for air. I specifically sugge...
Sounds good! Again, is "painful" to play making air units always disposable, and having to factory them everytime. At least the patrolling ones should land and repair. Bedsides that, it is logical to have a logistical support (like a air repair pad) for air frames always on use.
It is a mechanism that make the game more smooth, and the player have more attention to pay to other issues.
If Total Annihilation and even modern wafare brings these concepts, why the hell we are the ones to think that, suddenly, it dont make strategical sense anymore?!
paper mica
It's not about strategic sense
It's about behavior being absolute dogshit
It's a single unit that requires special janky behavior in a dozen units. That's basically why it got deleted.
stoic sentinel
I know that, repair pads have boss repair skills...for air. I specifically sugge...
The reason why it was not used much was not because it was not strong enough. It was already very strong if you compare cost vs repair power. Just very janky
fallen pewter
I dont give a shit about air repair pads. I think ive built one, like years ago. I just resent that the aircraft carrier was substituted for them. And for what. And even if the AC airpads were probably just as unused and useless, i did actually try get my litches on there sometimes, and at least it was more a more fitting war vessel than a fishing boat, gas ship thing.
But im not advocating for air repair pads, im just providing a reasonable avenue for giving them actual purpose. BARS scope of strategic application shouldnt be limited by your unwillingness to see the potential in anything it has to offer. Air repair pad or not
spice merlin
Pads were usefull, just had to set state prefs to where cheaper air units stayed and didnt retreat, while what i wanted to preserve did. Was very handy at keeping things like stiletos flying
stiff trout
Sounds good! Again, is "painful" to play making air units always disposable, and...
There would need to be a gameplay shift, like a hyper long range harrassing turret, that did build tower levels of damage, or less. Slowly dismantling enemy air such that they have to go land etc.
stiff trout
Pads were usefull, just had to set state prefs to where cheaper air units stayed...
They said they want less UI elements ideally, hence the removal, plus it didn't really fit many of the units, nuke bombers, stilletto & dragons being all thats really benefitting but they benefit MASSIVELY
green nymph
what about a flying repair fortress? (carrier-esque)
I would settle for that but like the pads.
green nymph
But with the aircraft carrier you got the advantage of an early repair pad, a mi...
Legion exists, or is very close to fully existing now. So it would benefit both Legion and Cortex, though Arm Liche can also benefit.
urban sonnet
Tbh it doesn't benefit anyone.... the repair pads need the unit to land, have very limited BP and most of the air units are not capable of using it in a meaningful way. In nearly all cases it is far more efficient to just use a stack of nanos as it saves massive amounts of time and has far better repair to cost ratios -- they were cool in some very niche cases to be fair but with them being a general nuisance to many people and the limited ability to get any value from repairs for most units it needs an overhaul
green nymph
Wat? The repair rate was stupid fast for repair pads compared to nanos.
I like the retreat feature, but it should really be "off" by default, and auto-match any user's settings when transfered.
I wholeheartedly agree that any return would require a lot more polish than existed. The overriding behavior was rough.
I like the idea of opportunistically being near a pad, having no enemies in sight, and below a threshold triggering automatic repair.
What about just requiring manual triggering? ..that is, you select the batch, and hit a 'repair' button that only has effect if below a set percentage?
I recognize that some people don't like air pads, but it's far from unanimous -- and I think the biggest issue was implementation.
urban sonnet
From what I recall of the parts of the conversation I saw the - What about just requiring manual triggering? ..that is, you select the batch, and hit a 'repair' button that only has effect if below a set percentage? part is one of the major arguments for removing them as creating manual retreat rally points over nanos would essentialy be better in all cases.
I think the idea was to have those kinds of retreat points so both ground and air units could use them -- no idea on the specifics though.
green nymph
Hrm.. ..I could live with that. Would be nice to have multiple points settable, though, and go to the nearest one. Also, might be nice to have a setting to use (or not) allied rally posts.
I do think a building is cooler, though, than generic nano usage. ..not to mention the aircraft carrier. I like the concept of Repair Facilities as a battle objective -- breaking through an enemy line and taking out their Repair Facility, or whatnot. ..and units undergoing repair are useless until repair is ended -- radar/jammer units don't provide radar/jamming, attack units can't attack, etc.
fallen pewter
Lol... U could redesign it so instead of a nanite spray, it would be more of a long range beemer lazer... Like a long range concentrated beam of nano repair lazer. And it could have 4 or 5 of these. And a large radius of reach and effect. Then when aircraft flew in the area the Beamer nanite lazers would track the aircraft and repair is super fast.... Then when night mode gets implemented and you have everyone had several repair pads around, the whole front line would look like tomorrowland and the Commanders could do their dance to a dope lazer show 🧠🕺💃🪩😂