#Mace / Thug should move faster compared to Aggrevator / Rocketeer.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wind isle
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Otherwise its endless kiting and kinda defeats the purpose of rocket bots are being anti structures. Currently rocket bots are anti-everything and thugs or maces only has unique use cases such as killing coms in 1v1 or ffa. At early game pawns and grunts becomes non viable very early so t1 fights become "who will make more rockos faster" . Rocket bots also counter all kinds on vehicles on t1 so its nearly impossible to counter them without mass spam or t2 units. Making thugs and maces faster than them will create a push with thugs/maces kill towers with rocket bots kinda dynamic which in my opinion would be more natural for the game.

This problem can be clearly seen on Supreme Isthmus front (everyone plays rocket bots like no other t1 units exist in the game) and other maps consisting narrower fronts. These 2 types of units should be more situational like mace/thug for pushing rocko for defending/killing structures/countering vehicles. A little speed tweak can fix this dynamic so chasing rocket bots with plasma bots can be viable and we would get more intense and fun t1 fights in the game. It can be like 40 speed for rocket bots 45 for plasma ones so it would not be easy to catch up to rocket bots but could act as a strategical decision.

hidden osprey
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rocket bot is the king of laning but is a lot worse on open maps (you still can make a few to kill llts effeciently)

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it's true thug suffers a lot on larger maps but ATM it also has absurd repair stats. It would have to be rebalanced carefully if you were to give it some speed.

Janus vs rocket bot is an example where the kiting unit has less speed. Rocket bot should win vs janus but it requires considerable levels of micro. The interaction doesn't feel bad. With thugs are you just looking to press forward super aggressively while repair microing. You either bulldoze them or die slowly.

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One reason why rocket bot is so powerful is it's low cost in general, including E and BP. It's insanely spammable for a unit that has multiple purposes.

Rocketeer: 120/1000/2010
Shellshocker: 135/2200/3000

west bolt
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Rocket bots are good at defending chokepoints because there's no room to dodge the rockets, so if you only play on chokepoint maps rocket bots are surely very powerful. On more open maps they could take ages to kill dodging enemies.
If you think rocket bots are the problem then maybe suggest to nerf them instead of buffing the plasma bots which opens a whole other can of worms.

versed stump
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Buffing Plasma bots speed right now is a really dubios idea. Half the games population is playing Thugmaxx it seems. Rocket bots did have thier speed increased in 2024, along with the plasma Bot's HP buffs

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I believe there also was a previous speed adjustment made before between rockets/plasma like this suggestion already but I have not found it yet.

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I will 100% still maintain that a Rocket bot dominated meta is the healthiest one for the games diversity.

wind isle
wind isle
versed stump
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Part of the reason rocket bots where given more speed was to help them avoid arty, and make them a smidge better at long range vs whistlers...removing that doesn't buff plasma bots, it returns us to a vehicle dominated meta

wind isle
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There is no diversity in t1 unit battles right now i think thats kinda lame. Its a race to who will mass more rocket bots. I don't think its healthy. Plasma bots can't counter any type of vehicle too. Speed will make them more viable and more fun to micro.

versed stump
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I have seen quite a few metas over the last few years... and there has never been a time where plasma bots where king. When ever rocket bots get de-throned, vehicles step into take its place.

wind isle
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Avoiding arty is also not that important because you can push against them and they will get away. For whistlers yes its logical to create a counter to it. Then maybe a damage boost could be useful. It might be more rewarding to commit to hit enemies important units maybe?

versed stump
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Some kind of damage boost to plasma might be ok, the big issue right now is there really are tons of players just jamming plasma bots right now. Give them more speed and it strengths the snowball, give them more range and you have elevation bonus range issues. More actual alpha damage and now they are just removing low tier commanders off the map.

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if we had "skills" to use like a short speed boost would be great for them.

wind isle
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that would be crazy btw good idea 😄

versed stump
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They could probably get Satyr range... and it would be ok but I dont think it would be enough to really shift thier current situation

wind isle
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T1 fights need better diversification and i think the balancing should be considered on the performance on the popular maps (supreme and glitters) because the %90 of the games are being played on those maps.

with the speed buff the fire rate might increase and damage can decrease to keep the fights more under control feeling wise (overall dps might be decreased by doing this to take away the buff effect).

versed stump
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Well, that's going to be where you might meet alot of reistence. ATG and Supreme dominating the game is a newer phenomenom than alot of people might realize, and as a whole balancing directly to a single map or mode is avoided

wind isle
golden trellis
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i'd prefer rocket bots be slower than speeding up the thug/maces

don't like the idea of balancing around atg and supreme inherently

but I see rocket bots on pretty much every map, lol

golden trellis
wind isle
versed stump
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Well I think its worth showing this as it seems pretty representative of lower tier lobbies these days. Most of the front line is full on mono plasma bot, with some being rocket bot users. To me this is actually suggesting good balance of the units...lower tier players favor the ease of use and durability of plasma bots while the more experienced players value being able to remove and control a front. You can see how the Plasma bot players are pushing aggressively versus the rocket bot players holding.

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wind isle