Make Boss Kickban a vote and address Boss abuse

[steady otter]

ok here u go fully correct analogy:
a player plays normal soccer but exceeds the running speed of 20km/h, referee cant imagine that someone is faster than him but cant give him red card. but according to bar coc he can give red card after 90min.

[wispy light]

It was a good fix

[raw locust]

still can afaik

[wispy light]

Then I think that’s a change that could deff get implemented

If it’s ranked that is

[raw locust]

again, a red card implies wrongdoing. A boss can kick you because they don't like to play with you, there's no wrongdoing on the player's part

[steady otter]

red card is just kickban

if boss dont red card u for doing nothing this thread wouldnt exist

[raw locust]

your analogies are worse than Rippsy's

[steady otter]

omg u are paid referee confirmed

ai rated my analogy 9.5/10

and the ai read entire 1000 messages here

[wispy light]

lol it would seem this thread is defeated, perhaps it is time to lock it

[chrome harbor]

Why trolls always want to shut threads

[fervent cove]

Main issue is this video game uses 20+ years old system and gamers expectations and behaviors have changed a lot over the years
Obsolete systems causes issues and matchmaking won't change anything since it's not even aimed at 8v8 and devs refuse to improve anything on the current client coz too old

[raw locust]

anyway, fact is, the boss can kick you for any or no reson. If you want to change that, focus on how you'd like that changed, not how the current situation translates into football

[wispy light]

Why are you always implying something bad about me? First it was boss abusing, then it was trolling.. I don’t understand?

[steady otter]

the reason why u dont understand anything i say is because i argue from moral standpoint u argue from coc is correct standpoint

[chrome harbor]

All you do is insult and ask to shut down thread

[steady otter]

that kickbanning under coc is allowed is true. but that it is unsportsmanlike and abusive can also be true

[chrome harbor]

Oh i mixed you and blossom up rip

[wispy light]

Then you have ready nothing I have typed. And there isn’t much left to say to you. I haven’t insulted anyone not once in this thread

[chrome harbor]

Naw I mixed you and the other commie guy up

[wispy light]

Oh rip my b

[raw locust]

coc is correct, by definition. You can't argue against it, but you can change it, or change the game mechanics around it.

CoC is wrong ->

Let's change CoC to something else ->

The end result of a CoC is wrong argument is to ignore the CoC, and that's not happening

[steady otter]

very simple explained:
a player plays normal soccer but exceeds the running speed of 20km/h - a player plays bar but builds 10 afus

referee cant imagine that someone is faster - boss sees that he has more afus than him

but cant give him red card - boss cant kickban (for any reason)

but according to bar coc he can give red card after 90 min. - boss can now kickban the player after game ended (for any reason)

[raw locust]

A referee is not a player, a red card is not a kickban, stop it

[steady otter]

so while bar coc agrees that some kickbans are morally wrong and unsportsmanlike. when the people get kickbanned after game for what they did in game. suddenly its irrelevant to bar coc that peopel get morally wrong and unsportsmanlike kickbanned

[raw locust]

the CoC does not aim at upholding the higest standard of virtue among players based on anyone's morals

plain rudeness is allowed and that's not nice no matter how you look at it

[steady otter]

ofc it does. respect for all members is mandatory

[raw locust]

imagine you're being respectfully asked to vacate the field

[steady otter]

ok and now?

[raw locust]

and now it's respectful and there's no problem?

where are you going with this?

[steady otter]

i probably dont get this phrase.

[raw locust]

we don't moderate everyone and anyone for mere disrespect

[steady otter]

so you are saying the coc is partially optional?

[raw locust]

Do you have a suggestion on how to word A1 better?

[steady otter]

well what is this A1 supposed to achieve

if people can just ignore it why it exist

[glossy grove]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-principal-skinner-skinner-children-out-of-touch-gif-4463952

[raw locust]

Taken an a whole, you can see the list of things you're not supposed to do under that rule

If you want us to action people for nothing more than disrespecting each other, I'd have to throw every participant of this thread out of the discord. That's not a very realistic standard

[glossy grove]

This is this thread. High level players have very few places to play in an environment that is competitve. That means as the high os community we need to treat these spaces with respect. For each other, and for the competitive environment.

I'm tired of these continued posts where some player is acting rudely towards others, asked to stop, and when met with consequences for their actions, they come and make a post about how they're being bullied because others just dont understand their genious.

If someone told me, game after game after game, that what i'm doing is ruining their experience, i introspect and change. There are a lot of people who could use similar introspection in this thread

[raw locust]

that message is in itself disrespectful

[glossy grove]

this entire thread is disrespectful

[steady otter]

sure i understand that its realistically not doable. but if no one every gets moderated for disrespect the rule serves no purpose in the coc

[glossy grove]

you want someone to have broken the rules so you feel better about yourself for being asked to leave by your peers?

[steady otter]

u could add A1 to the list of behavior suggestions

[raw locust]

That's a separate topic, you're free to raise it and rewrite the CoC

[prisma anchor]

If you've lost people's respect don't be surprised if they don't respect you

[glossy grove]

Xfactor is embarassing himself in this thread and so is everyone who defends this kinda of brigading behavior

xfactor is such a good player and could be a massive pillar of the community

[steady otter]

next mafia member appeared to shit talk woo hoo

all sitting in vc laughing waa

[raw locust]

and now, aside from being disrespectful, it has nothing to do with the thread so I'm asking you to stop

[prisma anchor]

How is jagomu mafia lol

[glossy grove]

instead he opens threads like this and calls in all his friends to share made up stories about the times they felt bullied for getting voted off the island

i dont call it mafia. i call it friendship that i have cultivated over years of positive interaction, constructive improvement, and shared positive expeirence, along with offline conflict resolution

why would i come running to mods to ban people instead of working out problems like an adult?

[chrome harbor]

Wdym vote? This is about boss abuse

[steady otter]

exactly why kickban people instead of working it out like adults

[chrome harbor]

He wants vote

[magic wolf]

⚠ Warned thegoekemunch

[glossy grove]

this is not the first time this thread has happened. it doesn't matter. you can call a vote and still get moderated even though its not against coc. i've been moderated for calling a vote and people voting in favor of that vote

[glossy grove]

can you explain the warning?

[steady otter]

i want vote to minimize boss abuse as well as coc change or unranked for boss lobbies to remove boss absue from ranked lobbies

[chrome harbor]

I will never vote to kick someone who is playing the game and trying. Except maybe 1 game months ago xf usually is trying. At least his plays make sense

He is just not playing for t2 like I think voncomet said

[glossy grove]

People not wanting to play with xfactor isn't against CoC. Should we update coc to say you HAVE to play with xfactor?

[steady otter]

like realistically speaking why should some glitter friends group be able to decide if I can play bar as a game just because they camp lobby with boss 24/7 and abuse the way how things are --> no 2 high os same lobbies for map exist at same time ever

[chrome harbor]

I mean idk this guy was #1 maybe you should have to play against him

If you wanna be high rank

[steady otter]

ofc there is opponents in ranked in every game that u dont want to play against or with. but thats the spirit of ranked

[wispy light]

If more than only 3 people had this problem they are more than welcome to create their own lobby to host that doesn’t have a boss. But if 80% of the high is glitters players like the way someone hosts a high is lobby then perhaps you need to look more at yourself and less at bar moderation

[steady otter]

if u could cherry pick all games ranked would make no sense

[glass ember]

And i belive 80% high skilled players actually dont like your approuch about coop/commie hunting, thats why these players are starting to talk more and more.

Both datas provided are assumptions.

[steady otter]

there is only 3 people who complained about my gameplay the rest is just yapping to support friends without knowing any shit at all

of that 3 they dont even know what happened actually too lmao

[chrome harbor]

My b I thought you were replying to other guy

[wispy light]

Explain coop commie hunting I don’t understand this part

[chrome harbor]

I’ve watched most of the replay this guy didn’t do anything wrong. He just played greedy

[steady otter]

i give my replays to 10 random people. good chance is 8-9 will say i carry games hard

but glitter mafia "trolling"

[glass ember]

its not only glitter mafia, right now its also isthmus, they work together

[steady otter]

nah most strait players in vc are correct people

much more performance oriented and less copium

[mighty pier]

im just here for the lols

Everyone take a breath.

[wispy light]

Currently and for the last 2 weeks I’ve been hosting most of the isthmus op lobby, and I’ve come up with a trick I use to keep most of the players happy, I let them vote on the lobby name to allow commie or kickban commie. Whichever way the vote goes the lobby runs that way. That way people can enjoy a high is lobby the way the majority wants. If for example 80% of the players don’t want the commie, and then you give your entire base to your geo player at 4 mins, yes you will be kickbanned. Because you are ruining the experience for everyone else in that lobby that doesn’t want to deal with it

And keep in mind when I say op lobby, I refer to a lobby I created for my and my friends. That usually ends up being the highest os supreme lobby available

[glass ember]

Which is a valid point i dont deny it.

[steady otter]

when everyone knows what they are in to that is peak. but when u go in lobby with seemingly no special rules and then get constantly harassed for .. well.. doing something different, then thats bs. even more especially when u get excluded for essentially playing the game normally.

[wispy light]

I don’t disagree with that. But disabling or restring boss puts a huge damper on those that want to host a lobby for their friends. I just don’t think it’s a good solution to the problem

[chrome harbor]

Idk why this thread devolved into commie thing. This is more about kicking for plays you don’t agree with I think

[wispy light]

Because it always devolves into a commie discussion lol

[steady otter]

think about it. would anything change for u if u had to vote for kickbanning instead instantly. and that you could not kickban people for playing suboptimal or different, while upholding ur lobby rules.

[chrome harbor]

This thread has nothing to do with commie. It’s about him getting kicked from glitters for making afus

[wispy light]

You can still vote for kickbans and I do quite often you just type !cv kickban ——- and it’s a great solution

[wispy light]

Not to mention a huge gift of having a boss is not having to vote on every little thing that results in lobby sim. Having someone oversee ringing and speccing and kick banning people who are creating issues for people has huge convenience benefits

[steady otter]

u still keep most boss powers just moderation critical ones get nerfed

[vagrant thistle]

The thread is about the whole boss/kickban situation and the reasons why certain boss behavior/abuse is problematic, also how part of the community is abusing it against people they have a dislike for because they don't align with their preferred style of gameplay which is where coop talk comes in (also a lot of the current 'tension' and boss abuse is centered around coop stuff)

But I agree in general it's about boss needing a change or not, where is the line, I prefer the majority of the lobby just voting on votes that the boss can make, because proper boss usage the votes will be voted on in favor by the majority anyway

[wispy light]

Have you thought about how it would impact noob lobbies as well? When half the time they have no idea what they are voting on?

[chrome harbor]

Just make kick a vote everything else boss can keep

[steady otter]

ye u can do all instantly, just kick is voted

[vagrant thistle]

may as well add spec to that list as well then, because they'll just replace kicking with constant speccing

[chrome harbor]

Yeah might have to add spec

[wispy light]

And I disagree with that. Because if someone is hosting a lobby and a party of 3-4 joins and votes no on everything because they are in discord what can. A boss do? Abandon a lobby he created?

[chrome harbor]

Idk because it can hold up lobby a lot tho voting spec

[vagrant thistle]

3-4 is not the majority in a lobby of 16 people

[steady otter]

they only thing to vote no is kickban and kick

everything else dont need to vote as boss just like now

[wispy light]

You don’t need majority. Only about 12 out of the 16 people ever vote on a given thing. So you only need 3-4 players to deny vote going thru

[vagrant thistle]

If the lobby truly wants someone out, they will vote on it

[raw locust]

spec

[fluid star]

makes sense to me and proves the person is really not wanted in the lobby

[steady otter]

anyways kickban in general should be more hard to get through. if only 30% of lobby vote yes it is quite controversial already...

[wispy light]

In a perfect world sure. But even I myself will sit in a lobby ready’d up watching tv while I wait for all the bs votes to go until my screenchanges and shows I’m in a game. Many are the same way because lobby’s take way to long. Hence the need for the boss

[steady otter]

nothing would change is lobby setup speed at alll

[chrome harbor]

The only thing that would change is kick votes

[steady otter]

u still have instant change for all settings

[chrome harbor]

Which should be rare anyway

[vagrant thistle]

^ exactly this

[chrome harbor]

Rarely do I ever see a player so disruptive they rly need to be kicked

[wispy light]

There just isn’t a need for the restriction on boss. If you don’t like the way a lobby is run. Then go create your own lobby and invite your friends. And run it the way you like idk what else there is to say

[glossy grove]

we dont know each other in real life, but met in bar. we became friends because we treated each other nicely 😦 you can be a friend too!

[chrome harbor]

We just want to play bar dude

[steady otter]

despite recent drama in this chat the kickban issue is extremely big. it affects so much people getting kicked for no reason. many have quit game

[vagrant thistle]

Have you read what is being said? I really can't think of someone arguing against this unless they want to keep boss abuse alive

[chrome harbor]

Not play politics to be allowed to play in the only lobby

[glossy grove]

do you have evidence to support this claim?

[fluid star]

og's getting banned left and right is just sus

[steady otter]

start of thread for example

many people shared how they very often see people get kickbanned for wrong/no reason

[wispy light]

Not for no reason generally. If it truly is for no reason then people wouldn’t join those lobby’s. So I recommend you go find the reason. There is always a reason

[glass ember]

even i created similar thread week ago

[steady otter]

people join highest os stacked lobby of map. if that is under 5 clown bosses they still do

[vagrant thistle]

@wispy light no response?

[wispy light]

I’ll get to you syphos jsut wait ur turn friend

[glossy grove]

ok let me be more specific. i see that there are a number of individuals who share the experience that "i was kickbanned and i felt that that was unfair". that is not evidence of a systemic problem or that all of thsoe people were kickbanned for the same reason.

@foggy cloud kickbanning someone for being a noob is different than
banning @foggy cloud because he was making wind everywhere

[wispy light]

Then make your own high is lobby. Invite your high is friends. And run it the way you like

[steady otter]

so then u compete already vs full high os lobby that other group camp 24/7. who gonna join lmao? 2 chevrons?

[wispy light]

That’s because you got kicked 2 days ago by someone who was mad at you because you were being an ass. Not to mention you had kickbanned them earlier. Unless you talking about 3 days ago when ariah kicked you for commie when it was a no commie lobby. I’m not super up to date on the specifics. But I believe that’s why you want a vote to kickban.

[steady otter]

like when no high os lobby exist, ok ez no problem. but when there is already one up. 0 chance to create alternative one

[glossy grove]

there are only 100 "top 100" players

[vagrant thistle]

Being an ass? do you have any evidence for this? also it's not an answer to the question at all

I just call the abusers out every now and then, on their abuse

[glossy grove]

both sides are ssaying the other is being the jerk without much evidence in this thread, myself included at times, but part of that is also cause its all been said before and everyone is out of words

[vagrant thistle]

I'm getting no response to the actual question, I'm not here to argue who is an ass

[steady otter]

to put moderation into salty political players is not the way to grow bar lmao

[vagrant thistle]

Why, take the side of trying to keep boss abuse alive, when the proposed solution doesn't change anything, aside from removing unwarranted kickbans

[steady otter]

boss abuser want to keep boss abuse xdd

[wispy light]

I have read what’s being said. And if you can’t think of a reason think harder maybe ? Idk what to tell you. There are many people in this thread that are in disagreement. Does that answer your question better?

[glossy grove]

the opposite of this argument isn't "keep boss abuse alive", its "i'm not sure it actually exists the way these players are describing it". Xfactor's situation as I've reviewed the tapes is not an abuse

[chrome harbor]

What’s problem with vote. I don’t see any issue with it

[steady otter]

tapes are usually rigged when from friends

[vagrant thistle]

No it doesn't answer anything, what is your reason, for wanting to keep it as is (which allows for boss abuse) when there is a simple solution

[glossy grove]

spiderman pointing at spiderman

[wispy light]

I have never boss abused. Hell you can even ask syphos when have I ever boss abused. I even came up with solution to the commie issue on isthmus which was to vote on a lobby name change to allow commie or not.

[steady otter]

thing with those friend groups is always, that one could rob a bank bring it up in vc and everyone would like not even care

[wispy light]

I have explained the reason several times and even explained how it isn’t a volition to the problem. Scroll up and read plz

[vagrant thistle]

That was already answered, the other settings can still be insta changed by the boss, aside from kickban

so why is it an issue, if kickbans need actual majority votes

[steady otter]

talking about others

[vagrant thistle]

I don't even care for if I get kickbanned on not, I'm just viewing this as objectively as possible for what would be a good solution

[wispy light]

I explained why it was an issue, please scroll up. You were even a part of the conversation at the time

[chrome harbor]

Ensures majority of bar members in the game agree. Seems too perfect

[steady otter]

like why is glitter mafia here if not to stop us from limiting boss abuse

if they dont do anything wrong dont need to worry

[wispy light]

Who here is glitter mafia I wanna know. I don’t really play much glitters

[vagrant thistle]

Just point me to the message you are referring to then because I must've missed it or similar

[glass ember]

its like i said day ago

[chrome harbor]

It’s all the other guys typing

Whose names you don’t know

[wispy light]

Here is one example lemme find the other

[wispy light]

Here another I think there one more

[wispy light]

Here another, there’s another one further up but i don’t wanna scroll that far tbh

[vagrant thistle]

On this there was also a response, 3-4 is not a majority, the 12/16 vote doesn't ring true in situations where people actually want to get rid of someone

[chrome harbor]

We already addressed those

[wispy light]

In a perfect world sure. But even I myself will sit in a lobby ready’d up watching tv while I wait for all the bs votes to go until my screenchanges and shows I’m in a game. Many are the same way because lobby’s take way to long. Hence the need for the boss

[chrome harbor]

Sunshine’s are you reading dawg

[wispy light]

And here is the answer

[chrome harbor]

We’re saying leave that’ stuff only change kick vote

[vagrant thistle]

what bs votes, there's a boss and the only BS votes that could take longer in that situation is actual kickban votes because the rest is still insta changed by boss

[wispy light]

Yes I’m aware but there isn’t a need to change the kickban ability of a boss

[vagrant thistle]

Because?

[chrome harbor]

I’m just telling u we already dismantled your flimsy arguments

All I was saying

[wispy light]

Because there are already a plethora of solutions

[vagrant thistle]

Name some

[wispy light]

Yes I’m aware but syphos asked me for the msgs

[vagrant thistle]

name some, that prevents boss abuse as well, would be the better question

[steady otter]

like shouldnt in theory all changes that limit boss abuse without disrupting game be implemented?

[wispy light]

Happily.

1. Go to a lobby with no boss.

2. If you want to go into a lobby with a boss and they set ground rules aka no commie or free commie. Fit within those guidelines

3. Create your own lobby where you can create your own lobby

Rules*

[chrome harbor]

There’s not enough lobbies. Your brain is like stuck on this

[vagrant thistle]

So, a very roundabout way that doesn't prevent the possibilities of boss abuse

[steady otter]

4. wait 10 hours as no one joins as they play in other stacked lobby

[vagrant thistle]

and as others have pointed out, lobby issues

[steady otter]

5. concede and farm 2 chevrons

[chrome harbor]

And there won’t be any more lobbies because eventually people are fed up with this shit and just go play something else

[flint thunder]

If really so many people have problems with boss, then it should be easy to get another lobby going.

[wispy light]

If that is the case then why are people creating such a bad reputation that they are getting kickbanned from lobby’s.

[steady otter]

from my experience people dont give a shit if someone gets kickbanned

[wispy light]

We all have to play together. It’s a small community

[chrome harbor]

What reputation? This xfactor was #1 gamer in bar

[vagrant thistle]

Btw you saying '2. If you want to go into a lobby with a boss and they set ground rules aka no commie or free commie. Fit within those guidelines' that doesn't ensure boss abuse won't happen at all

[steady otter]

in rotato even. some guy troll kickbans reputable member for fun. all people say is lmao and continue play

[flint thunder]

If they think its funny, wouldn't a vote have the same result?

[glossy grove]

we had trouble with that at some point in glitter lobby and we talked about and decided joke votes are just never cool and we try to avoid them. it sucked, we talked about it, and we stopped doing it

[chrome harbor]

No

[wispy light]

Because those bosses are trying to create an atmosphere of entertainment for them and their friends. And if you insist on ruining the game for them then yes. Kickban.

[glossy grove]

especially when people vote kick ban for funny and it goes through accidentally

[vagrant thistle]

Dude, you obviously can't read or are refusing to see the point being made

[chrome harbor]

This game is cooked if this is the way it’s going

[steady otter]

nah they dont want to kickban that person. it just happened by boss abuse. but no one care about making new lobby or something so lmao

[flint thunder]

I was more often kicked out of non boss lobbies than of lobbies with boss. People just like to press the yes button.

[vagrant thistle]

Here, @wispy light;
'2. If you want to go into a lobby with a boss and they set ground rules aka no commie or free commie. Fit within those guidelines'

• that doesn't ensure boss abuse won't happen at all

And you reply ; Because those bosses are trying to create an atmosphere of entertainment for them and their friends. And if you insist on ruining the game for them then yes. Kickban.

[steady otter]

well its multiple issues wcy say

[vagrant thistle]

you see how that doesn't say anything about the point I made?

[wispy light]

I’m aware of the point. But the fact is if there was a large amount of boss abusing people wouldn’t join those lobby’s. Hell me and my friends that usually play the supreme lobby have actually left a lobby that had a shitty boss and created our own because he was boss abusing. Do you know what happened? People followed up because that guy was an ass.

We didn’t fit in the guidelines that guy wanted for his lobby. So we left

[vagrant thistle]

So one positive instance somehow makes up for all the issues?

[burnt ember]

The problem with boss and with !kickban by mafia is that basically they are becoming the judges and enforcers of the CoC.. This is supposedly to help moderate bad actors without needing the moderation team. The problem is every joe schmoe's interpretation of the CoC is apparently different. For example the first rule in the CoC is "Be nice to other players, just as you would like to be treated by others."
I feel like much of this discussion is not in the vain of being nice at all, sorry to say.

[vagrant thistle]

I am just wondering, why argue against majority votes being the solution

[chrome harbor]

They want to control who can play

[flint thunder]

It just shows that you can actually make a own lobby especially if you have multiple people.

[glossy grove]

so youre saying that people should treat others nicely and if they dont they should expect consequences?

[wispy light]

Not at all. There are plenty of other times I have joined a no commie lobby with a boss. And I didn’t commie. And thus I didn’t get kickbanned. Because i fit within the game he was trying to host. Seems real fuckin simple to me

[raw locust]

This is incorrect, players can kickban other players who haven't broken the CoC, as long as it's in the lobby. You can argue to change that, but that's now how it is currently

[vagrant thistle]

I don't disagree, but the average person isn't going to wait in a new lobby or pull on players to follow them (also it's harder to have people follow u if u just got kickbanned for no reason)

[steady otter]

you can even kickban people for having black skin

[wispy light]

Not at all. It’s called message. Or join a discord. Or have people on your friends list

[plucky bramble]

na discrimination would be under coc

[glossy grove]

slippery slope

[raw locust]

not if you admit to it

[plucky bramble]

you can kickban for almost anything

[vagrant thistle]

Your somehow trying to make this seem like kickbans are always justified, when we are talking about how they are not and you know yourself from experience that it gets abused

[steady otter]

coc also says all kickban are allowed

coc is overlapping and contradicting with itself

[chrome harbor]

Coc is not wrong. We established that earlier. Ergo

[plucky bramble]

Section B2 discrimination

[vagrant thistle]

'If you adhere to the lobby rules, you won't get kickbanned' which is false which is why it's boss abuse in the first place

if you kickban me for a rule in a lobby I don't follow, I have 0 issue with that

[glossy grove]

if you disagree about what the rules are (like what constitutes being nice to others) then getting kickbanned is going to feel like an injustice

[wispy light]

And quite frankly I think taking power from a boss is just not a positive solution. If I want to host a small game with some of my nooish friends so I set up a lobby the way they like it and someone comes in and starts harassing them during a game or after a game. I want to be able to kickban them right away and give newer player a better experience. Instead of having to vote on every little thing

[vagrant thistle]

If a player is doing that I'm 99% sure that in most cases the lobby would just insta agree with you and get the player out

[steady otter]

oh actually with reworked coc it doesnt say anymore u can kick for any reason?

[buoyant delta]

I agree with this, removing boss perms to kickban out right is not a solution tbh.

[glossy grove]

and then we'll have another thread about someone feeling bullied by "the mafia". xfactor was the player this time, wcyd

[wispy light]

I think a better question to the problem Is how to implement a way for the high is ranked lobby’s to not have a boss.

[vagrant thistle]

If you get voted out by the majority, it most likely is justified

in comparison to a single person deciding if it is justified or not

[buoyant delta]

Make boss an icon on the server list. So you know before you even join whether it is a bossed server or not. Just don't join bosses servers I guess

[vagrant thistle]

Not hard, play the game and don't make personal preferences on what should be and shouldn't be allowed

[wispy light]

I think that’s a great idea

[flint thunder]

As long as no clan joins and takes over the lobby.

A boss is also a security against lobby takeovers

[steady otter]

no one can take over with proposed changes

unless.... they kickban u for having boss...

and for some reason all agree...

[burnt ember]

It's too far upthread to find.. I think having ranked lobbies with limited changeable settings and no boss, 9/16 votes to kickban, and alternately having unranked lobbies with bosses and whatever they want. So you can choose rated (play with whoever is your teammate) or unrated (play however you want) depending on your preference.

[glossy grove]

i like this idea a lot and i've talked about it before in these threads. without matchmaking, there should be one "always up" lobby that has some kind of rules to make sure its as high of os as possible (like prioirity queu or some such)

[plucky bramble]

the priority queue doesn't really matter with current player base size
it won't do much

[burnt ember]

ranked lobbies would have voteable min/max OS/chev, maps, team size, an so on

[vagrant thistle]

Fine with this as well, I'm just done with the constistent boss abuse (not talking specifically about myself, I see it used against a ton of players in a toxic manner)

[wispy light]

I think that’s not a terrible idea. The top os lobby’s shouldn’t have a boss tbh

[flint thunder]

A lot of high os lobbies start "low". For example after some games the min chev level is changed, min rating and so on. That is also why a boss is nice to actually be able to do that.

[fervent cove]

When some lobby system rework to remove all the OS abuse that break the entire OS system

[steady otter]

there is also trend of noob lobbies having max rating. so if u get kicked from only lobby due to personal bias of what gameplay is troll or not. then essentially just because u have personal issues with someone u get banned from playing bar as a game

[burnt ember]

If people troll in ranked lobbies you report them via the normal means, it's really not necessary to have a mod in such a situation

[wispy light]

There are always all welcome lobby’s and plenty of lobby’s on different maps.

[steady otter]

now luckily for my personal case. i play strait glitter rotato so im not banned from playing but many others are

[glossy grove]

i would say it would, difference between min 25 and 35

[wispy light]

Then perhaps they should learn to get along with the people they play their map with or learn another map?

[steady otter]

what os are u? idk but lets say u are 35 imagine relatively to u basically playing in lobby with 15 people max 15 os. that is not fun

[vagrant thistle]

I think this is a nasty take, if people don't get along with you (because they dislike your playstyle or whatever, because let's be real that's what it mostly comes down to) that doesn't mean you haven't tried to get along with them, there's not much u can do when someone holds a 1000 year grudge against you, just because you hurt them in a match with something good/strong (even non coop stuff) like t1 bomb runs etc.

[wispy light]

I 100% agree. But I also strive to get along with almost everyone I can. And thus don’t get kickbanned. In fact many people vote me in as boss when I join lobby’s because they like the way I run them.

[burnt ember]

ranked lobbies would have some unchangeable settings, like widgets off, no legion, spawn order rank, map selection pool, starting boxes, runs on stable version, no tweaks.. then some votable options, team size, min/max OS/chev, current map

[steady otter]

exactly and now lets imagine lobby are controlled by the worst of people (it is not rn). should u now stay on their good grace by ignoring their wrong doings or speak out and get banned

[wispy light]

Neither. Create a better environment. Invite the people you like to play with. Invite the high os. Create a better more entertaining environment

[raw locust]

I don't think a ranked system is within the scope of this thread

[burnt ember]

Why not, it's another proposal to the presented complaint

[flint thunder]

Tweaks can sometimes be really useful. For example no commander transport.

[steady otter]

but now the opposing party has bigger criminal forces. u and ur friends cant get a high os lobby going despite most effort. bar is now not fun. do u now uninstall bar?

[plucky bramble]

the most revelant part is what are kickban rights in said ranked lobby

[wispy light]

Then make more friends. Find others who are having issues with boss abuse. Thats what I did. And the op lobby seems to follow me around just fine

[vagrant thistle]

The only reason your not getting kickbanned is because you align with some of the boss abusers takes about coop/cheese etc. 🤣 otherwise, I bet you wouldn't have the same view as you have right now, because some of them are trying to get rid off anyone who is PRO-everything BAR has to offer

[burnt ember]

ranked should be done on the currently official versino of the game, not whatever random people decide it should be. it leads to OS being pretty meaningless to use a variety of settings

[raw locust]

Eliminating boss kickbans is a relatively simple and immediately actionable suggestion. "Let's develop a ranked system" is not realistically actionable currently

[wispy light]

Not at all syphos. You have seen how I run lobby’s.

I believe people like me on my own merits.

[burnt ember]

says who? all the infrastructure is in place to create lobies with restricted settings

[steady otter]

so you are saying that to play bar i should go out of my way. networking with probably 100+ people to consistantly run a lobby that has maybe the potential to outdo the network of the criminal group?

[vagrant thistle]

I have, I'm not talking about how you run lobby's, I'm just saying that if you had a different stance on something like coop you'd probably get kickbanned just for being in favor of a certain game mechanic, regardless if u use it or not

[plucky bramble]

just focus on the kickban rights for now

[vagrant thistle]

I think you run lobbies really well

[glossy grove]

thread

[flint thunder]

The problem is that unranked games are useless. After some time if someone always plays unranked, the game would get really unbalanced. The skill changes, but the OS doesn't represent it. That is also probably why nearly no one plays unranked. It would be kinda like removing tweaks from the game ( as long as it isn't coop)

[raw locust]

getting to agree on what ranked looks like is an ordeal in itself, and I strongly doubt the infrastructure is actually there

[wispy light]

No, that’s just one of the solutions. And the solution that I opted for. But there are a plethora of solutions to choose from

[steady otter]

i can assure u most players just login. either see a high os lobby and join or logout immediately

[plucky bramble]

na people who intentionally keep abusing full commie in lobby that obviously hates it deserve what they get

there's times they commie, ruin lobby and don't even get kicked
full front commie? gets kicked. surprised pikachu

[vagrant thistle]

Thank you for showing the issue with boss abuse so clearly

[plucky bramble]

"i barely do it" yes but you do it whenever it suits you

[steady otter]

well if u run only high os lobby u need to communicate no coop. not get surprise pikacku face when something op appears

[raw locust]

meanwhile

[foggy cloud]

Jesus is Xfactor here crying for being banned? i told you 10 times before you are banned not for playing badly or too good. You are banned because you are a Karen and an asshole

[plucky bramble]

yes it's starting to happen

[steady otter]

hoorah next mafia member attack

[vagrant thistle]

Because if you play a game for enjoyment and fun, you do whatever you feel is fun at whatever time, sometimes that is commie and mind you I don't commie when the lobby clearly states no commie

[flint thunder]

Also there are better ways to manipulate OS then by strange settings. For example doing coop with low os player, dodging games to gain OS or throwing games or play sub optimal strategies if you want to lose OS.

[limber lodge]

You mean new players get removed from the op lobby? Sounds horrible

[vagrant thistle]

All of my kickbans have been by players disliking the fact that I sometimes do commie, when the lobbie wasn't stating anything about commie OR even when I don't commie and then still just get removed, because of the dislike they have for me as a player/my stance on mechanics

[steady otter]

wait he just admitted i didnt get ban for afus but for personal reasons xdd

best part is i didnt even talk to him during those games

its peak 💯

[vagrant thistle]

X person likes something I don't like and doesn't align with how I think BAR should be played > Let's make them out to be an ass and justify my boss abuse behavior, classic BAR experience

🤷‍♂️

[fervent cove]

when?

[steady otter]

despite ur hate against me i was winning lane for u for team work dont forget that

[foggy cloud]

I dont hate you

[burnt ember]

probably never because no one seems to agree with me that this is a good idea.

[foggy cloud]

i dont like you, There is a massive diffirence

[steady otter]

well whatever it is it does not make me feel better when u talk to me

[foggy cloud]

I am sure you are a wonderfull person with a good job, working well. Maybe a family etc.. etc.. but you are still an ass

[raw locust]

Didn't we have a team for this that no one could come up with a name for. Talking to them would probably get you further than in this mess of a thread

[steady otter]

i am very direct person. if u do some shit i say u do some shit. some people appreciate it some hate it

ima take shower break then we can overtake coop thread with messages

[chrome harbor]

They just announce coop nerf coming. Maybe if we keep typing they change this too

[fervent cove]

yea it's weird the lack of common sense, especially when they want to push for steam release but don't care about all the easily stuff devs could fix that would greatly improve the experience.

[chrome harbor]

It’s a good idea

[burnt ember]

I'm not really inclined to spend my time turning the wheels when I've brought it up like 3-4x now and generally people just ignore it to continue arguing with each other.

[limber lodge]

no, but it's why half the people in here are whining that they get kickbanned

[chrome harbor]

Yeah I didn’t realize they were on about the supreme weird house rules until half way into thread. I don’t rly care about that

[spring cloud]

this is the 4th occasion ive seen xfactor get into a multi hour discord argument

[limber lodge]

the issue is it's currently forcing players in the op straights lobby to give their entire base away and sit the game out at ~5 mins if they want a shot at winning

[fervent cove]

well many players been asking for having a improved ranked system experience and not some half assed monstrosity the game currently has
god bless maybe one day
it's one of the main reason high os leave the game other than the catastrophic balance changes

[chrome harbor]

We’re only weeks away from corners on glitters doing the same thing I think lol

[limber lodge]

your messages above say otherwise

[limber lodge]

it's been like ~6 people. I'd hardly call that many

[steady otter]

always with same peopl wcyd

[steady otter]

pretty sure more than 6. and even then this is insane if u consider how people do not check this channel and obviously that many victims dont even play the game anymore.

[slender bane]

My unwarranted opinions: an unban command is necessary

Also til there's an atg mafia

[glossy grove]

"victim"

[slender bane]

I have mixed feelings about a vote for boss kickban though (what's the point of bossmode if it needs a vote?)

That's all I have to say

[steady otter]

these days it does seem that people only boss to kickban people they dont like. but initially people were bossing themselves to change maps or lobby settings more easily

most boss features would be unchanged, nearly abuse would be mitigated

by me opening this thread for example I expect many many boss abuse retaliation by said mafia. they will suddenly detect trolling everywhere.

[slender bane]

Sorry for derailing thread but who is this mafia?

-# I like reading drama

[burnt ember]

just scroll up and start from beginning then

[steady otter]

its typically glitter elite who organize to control high os lobby with boss 24/7. i will not put names out

[burnt ember]

don't ask these poor people to waste their time with it again xd

[limber lodge]

because it's slow and half the lobby goes afk between games and doesn't vote-making it impossible to get a majority for the vote to go through

[raw locust]

don't you think they'd be a little pissed about you calling them mafia?

[glossy grove]

is that a self fulfilling prophesy?

[steady otter]

ye they will be but sadly they are by definition mafia

[glossy grove]

definition is a strong accusation

[slender bane]

I think a separate suggestion thread for an unkickban command is warranted

[limber lodge]

they are normally justified. If they aren't, I see people speak out against them 90% of the time

[vagrant thistle]

When thinking about solutions and the propositions a couple of us in here brought forward, those were not subjective, they are rooted in objectivity (ex; if the majority of the lobby would need to agree on a kickban, that removes boss abuse (in 99% of the cases, aside from maybe and ultra rare majority boss lobby?) this is not a subjective take)

[glossy grove]

Ma·fi·a
/ˈmäfēə/
noun
noun: Mafia; noun: the Mafia

an organized international body of criminals, operating originally in Sicily and now especially in Italy and the US and having a complex and ruthless behavioral code.
    any organized group using extortion and other criminal methods.
    noun: mafia; plural noun: mafias
    "the rise of criminal mafias"
    a closed group of people in a particular field, having a controlling influence.
    noun: mafia
    "the top tennis mafia"

i didn't know bosses were using extortion to kickban you xfactor?

[steady otter]

omg thats exactly u (pl)

[glossy grove]

second definition is "closed" and the group isnt closed

[limber lodge]

well, that's why you are getting kicked recently-unless you want to prove otherwise?

[slender bane]

Technically if they're from atleast 2 countries it's a mafia

[glossy grove]

invites are open to ape and smile discord, please reach out to me on dms and you can be part of the community that helps decide how the glitters lobby should be run

[slender bane]

Buuuut this is a thread about vote boss kick, not mafia

[glossy grove]

he needs to insult us to feel better

[raw locust]

well, apparently mafia no longer refers to the actual mafia, so what do i know. Carry on

[steady otter]

lol no we just need a name to address ur group more easily

[slender bane]

This is mudslinging territory, both of you pls stop, jagomu and xfactor

[glossy grove]

its not mudslinging to say hes insulting me, and misrepresenting my community and the members of that community. we are not by definition a mafia.

we are an open community striving to learn, get better at the game, and coordinating games and the high os glitter lobby

[vagrant thistle]

Really? you saying this is just going to make me ignore you now I guess, pls go look at the times I got banned and the reasoning for it being justified, because there are none, everytime the lobby clearly states something like no commie, I won't coop, even if it says commie I often* don't coop.
I get banned in matches I played on air, for supposed commie (when there is none AND when the lobby didn't state anything about it)

[slender bane]

Passive aggressiveness is though

[steady otter]

iif u try to get better at game why u kickban player who play better kek

[slender bane]

Whatever you're typing out now, stop

Xfactor and jagomu

[burnt ember]

I'm confused how other discords lay claim to running atg lobbies like they are the owners of said lobbies, that part feels a bit weird to me

[glossy grove]

passive aggressiveness might be frowned upon, but it is not mudslinging. i'm not making baseless accusations against xfactor as he is doing to everyone he disagrees with

[limber lodge]

CoC says to find players that like your plausible. if you join a bossed lobby, and the boss/people in the lobby don't like your playstyle, they have CoC justification for kicking you, and you should find somewhere that likes how you play, or create your own space

[steady otter]

pls remind me what was ur first msg in this thread

[raw locust]

ok, now enough for real

[steady otter]

ok

[slender bane]

I give up, continue fighting if you wish

Don't say I didn't warn you when mods lock the thread though

[glossy grove]

i will continue to assert that it is xfactor making accusations and me defending myself and my community. i wont have him continue to lie about what is going on in ape and smile discord about glitters. its an open community

[limber lodge]

the issue here is that you understand that a majority of players do not like your playstyle and would not join you lobby, so you complain about boss abuse to force your way into a lobby that doesn't want you

[vagrant thistle]

Being pro boss abuse must feel good I guess, guess why the majority of us don't boss? because we don't feel the need to use boss to enforce anything on the playerbase, unlike the ones that are trying to do so

[raw locust]

we've been over this many times over many threads, that's not true, inertia is a thing

[steady otter]

to say something nice i guess partially:
I said glitter elite, not ur glitter servers

[vagrant thistle]

Majority =/= a single person deciding if they don't like your playstyle or have a grudge against you specifically because they got butthurt about something at some point

[sonic ember]

Man you guys literally talking about commie not even talking about the most obvious kickban abuse is "damn this guy is a noob get him the fuck out of here" and then guy is thrown out like scum.

Noobs are completely and utterly annihilated by kickban its so toxic there are threads everywhere on reddit for it

[vagrant thistle]

very true

[slender bane]

Well the point of boss is they can kick for whatever reason, I'm not saying it's a good reason to kick, but still....

[glossy grove]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-pam-beesly-theyre-the-same-picture-the-same-picture-they-are-the-same-picture-gif-20830121

[fading burrow]

Now that i have seen a bit of ngl

[chrome harbor]

There’s literally a guy today in main complaining about this

[fading burrow]

Its been a issue for at least 3 months

[chrome harbor]

Op new user experience insta banned from server

[fading burrow]

Thats the last time i played

[prisma anchor]

Maybe they should make it so you can only join noob lobbies as a noob so that this doesn't happen to noobs

[fading burrow]

The good old this guy is underperforming in the lobby kick him so we all don’t have to suffer or stm

[sonic ember]

I have seen at least 5 people in the last 2 days get completely unfair kickbanned in straights lobby just for being a new player, its not right that this is the mentality we have. BAR used to be a welcoming place for new players, you would force spec before any kind of kickban behavior

[vagrant thistle]

I would love it if I could get some timestamps on when I got kickbanned, the lobby name and chat during lobby, just to pull them up and show how full of shit some of the comments here have been but alas

[steady otter]

u see this thread was made to improve as a bar community for all players. it was never supposed to be about me personally...

[fading burrow]

I sadly have to agree

[steady otter]

restricting boss abuse can only help the game

[fading burrow]

Its just where we are atm ig 😢

[prisma anchor]

I do agree but I also don't think people should be forced to play with your troll strats

[slender bane]

Hmm, I'm onboard with vote for boss kickban now

[prisma anchor]

So I'm not sure what a good solution is

[chrome harbor]

You should give X factor contributor badge for saving bar with his thread

[raw locust]

maybe I haven't been here long enough but I don't remember a time when people didn't kickban each other all over the place

[chrome harbor]

Thank god the mods didn’t lock

[steady otter]

i do agree too that people who dont want to play with someone can do it in their own private unranked lobby. but when its about rank u cant have ur own ranked circles

[prisma anchor]

Mods btw this is a bunch of xfactora friends being the loud minority in this thread

[limber lodge]

sho proof - I and those I speak with have only kickbanned you when the title says no commie or you agree to no commie and then you do, in fact, commie

[chrome harbor]

I’m not friends with X factor. I genuinely don’t know this guy

[steady otter]

no disrespect to my "friends" but i dont even know them xd

[chrome harbor]

We’re not on friends list nothing

[raw locust]

everyone in this thread is both loud and a minority

[burnt ember]

I'm not xfactor's friend but i do agree this community has a problem with !kickban abuse

[sonic ember]

talking about playstyle enforcing is just an issue with a few people that dont like coop, which by comparison to the amount of kickbanning noobs for their playstyle being inexperienced and new to the game is like a whole separate magnitude of players

[vagrant thistle]

False and sadly I can't get that data otherwise I would actually show u how full of shit this comment is

[fading burrow]

Tbh i did say it once before
The whole purpose of kickban in the first place vote or boss is to kick people actively breaking the rules it had never started as a tool to kick players for performance or preference issues

[chrome harbor]

I just agree with him. I only faced abuse 1 time rly and it’s shit

[sonic ember]

and a lot of those noobs that get kickbanned dont complain about it on the forums because they just quit

[prisma anchor]

I think a good solution is to make it so if the boss does a kickban the lobby has the opportunity to vote against it and if not enough people vote no they get kickbanned, I think that is a great solution

[chrome harbor]

Thanks. Yes.

[vagrant thistle]

Just this week alone I got kickbanned like 3 times, without me doing anything coop or w/e + there being no rules in the lobby at the specific time, it is just out of sad grudges

[steady otter]

nah boss abuse is not minority issue. already months ago when raghna asked me how to improve game the best. i told him how the bar new player experience is extremely bad. especially new players getting kickbanned and abused on repeat.

[raw locust]

anyway, can you come to some kind of point? I'd be interested in what actually comes of it, but if you don't rein in the thread, nobody's going to read over 9k messages

[prisma anchor]

Xfactor would you be happy with this solution?

[chrome harbor]

He made his point already

[prisma anchor]

I am for my suggestion

[fading burrow]

That is his point xd

[prisma anchor]

I think it makes everyone happy

[fading burrow]

Look at the title 🤣

[chrome harbor]

Shephard came here to disagree for 4 hours just to suggest the original idea

[steady otter]

i suggested vote but i dont like that u get kickbanned just because everyone too lazy to hit no

[vagrant thistle]

And we are vouching to try and make it fulfill it's original intended purpose, by allowing bosses to put up kickban/spec votes but still needing majority of voters to go through while retaining all their other 'powers' like changing settings without the need of a vote

[steady otter]

people in bar are very lazy to vote.

[prisma anchor]

What he has suggested is different, he has suggested making it so the boss cannot kickban people, I am saying they should be able to but if not enough people vote against it his kickban goes through rather than making it so they don't get kicked if enough people vote

[sonic ember]

I think kickban should require a supermajority and bosses shouldnt be able to unilaterally decalre it. Also the abstain should default no honestly, not yes.

[burnt ember]

It's not really a solution though.. BAR pvp community needs to be forced to grow up and play together even if they don't like each other. it's a mark of sportsmanship and maturity

[steady otter]

well depends on lobby. sometimes they all just spam yes xd

[chrome harbor]

Yes. Grow up and game.

[prisma anchor]

I think my solution is a good midway point to appease all sides

[steady otter]

well what is the other side??? " i want to boss abuse" ?

[fervent cove]

That's how it is in rotato but those newer players have different culture of pvp

[vagrant thistle]

Good luck with that, I can guarantee you some players are not going to grow up and play together, for whatever their reasoning may be (change in preference of playstyle or whatsoever)

people hold grudges for the smallest things, forever

[prisma anchor]

No that people should be allowed to say I don't want to play with that guy in their own lobby

[sonic ember]

thats why force spectator exists

[prisma anchor]

I think in cases where you want to remove boss powers they should be replaced for votes against the bosses power not for the bosses power

[fading burrow]

Tbh if mod team had more man power i would push for it to be swapped back to a rule in coc

[prisma anchor]

Like an antivote rather than a vote

[steady otter]

the moment u can exclude playing top 1-10 player by banning them and get top 1 urself its when u realise it should be unranked if u have boss

[prisma anchor]

Xfactor you are the only high os player being banned from glitter games not all the other ones are too

[steady otter]

lol no

u guys ban like all rotato people who make afus

[vagrant thistle]

most of the players that have no issues with other players (like myself, sure I dislike the way some players behave or boss abuse but I don't hate anyone) will not bother bossing lobbies, because we are ok with pretty much everything, it's the ones that are not ok with specific things or have a dislike towards certain players in the playerbase, that consistently try to be in charge to enforce things / keep players out

[steady otter]

im the only one who speaks out loudly so u doing now perma ban

[sonic ember]

you shouldnt be allowed to curate gameplay and also have it be a ranked game, thats just wild. you cant create your own competitive sphere and ignore parts of the game imo.

[prisma anchor]

Just for clarification I do not ban anyone

[steady otter]

well sorry its too hard to reference all individuals cleanly

[glossy grove]

I also only call votes when i'm boss. other than someone saying something racist or offensive (like n-word level) then i'm not going to use direct kickban

[sonic ember]

but i think 10x bigger issue is just kicking new players because their "playstyle" is bad when they are just new and inexperienced

[prisma anchor]

Xfactor do you think my solution is better than how it is now? I would support my solution as it prevents boss abuse more than the current system while still preserving some boss power

I would vote no against you getting kicked if it was a vote and I don't even like you

[steady otter]

look from my perspective anything that reduces the chance of boss abuse is better. but if that change means that bigger changes dont happen then i might rather fight for bigger change

[prisma anchor]

But I don't think they will remove boss powers with the game being free with a small mod team it's just not feasible, this way is a solution to help the problem to some degree that is alot easier to fight for

[fading burrow]

Something like maliciously abusing or using kickban just to remove players that are underperforming is not a valid reason to use kickban

[prisma anchor]

It is allowed with the current COC

[steady otter]

like personally speaking. no matter what we decide here said glitter group gonna kickban me somehow anyway. so im just fighting basically for everyone else or unless said group decides to change their mind then also for myself

[prisma anchor]

It is currently a valid reason

[raw locust]

I'm not getting paid enough for that

[fading burrow]

It syncs perfectly with rule A2.2
Harassment includes flaming players for using strategies which may seem subjectively suboptimal (high-risk tactics like commander-drops and such) or just low skill plays.

[fading burrow]

Thats why i said if we had more manpower xd

[prisma anchor]

Flaming is not the same as kickban

[vagrant thistle]

Same, I'm here fighting for the people that get cherry picked / removed without proper reasoning

[median fern]

Is that truly such a common occurance?

[raw locust]

Even if we did it's a bad idea, but there's no universe where we have enough time for this, so why even bring it up

[prisma anchor]

What do you think of my proposed solution? I think it solves the majority of the problem

[chrome harbor]

Yes i said this before. They are flaming him for his playstyle.

[vagrant thistle]

Once you get on the list of disliked players with a small group of recurring boss abusers, your going to have an amazing time

[raw locust]

Too clunky imo, not worth it, but my opinion isn't worth much here

[fervent cove]

Then why do some mods promote and say Boss can do whatever he wants in a lobby as long as it's not ingame
that's just telling trolls they can do whatever they wish and creating issues

[sonic ember]

noobs get annihilated as justification for losses everyday homie

[prisma anchor]

Clunky how?

[chrome harbor]

It’s very common

[prisma anchor]

It's the same as a vote just if not enough people vote it goes through

[raw locust]

Takes long to kick someone, can't kick several people in a row

[chrome harbor]

Votes don’t go through as easy as boss abuse

[median fern]

Only ever happened to me once, and i have noobed a lot.

[chrome harbor]

Also depends some ppl are just nasty as boss and they kick randomly. Not fun

[median fern]

Why not simply make kick-ban always a vote?

[chrome harbor]

That’s the idea actually

[prisma anchor]

But their proposed solution is to make it all votes atleast my idea they get to keep some boss power

[median fern]

Sounds sensible and implementable.

[chrome harbor]

Bar is a game for everyone. If it’s not private lobby. Especially ranked. It should be available to all non trolls

[burnt ember]

because there are also groups of players who rubber stamp kickbans to act as a defacto boss of the lobby

it's actually just abuse of !kickban, not really boss

[prisma anchor]

But a large group of op glitters player consider xfactor to be trolling

Surely they are in the right to consider someone a troll if they think they are trolling?

[burnt ember]

if he is trolling they should report him to mod team

[median fern]

Sure, but the game has a lobby system and not a q. I think it's fair to let players have a degree of control over whom they want to play with.

[chrome harbor]

Maybe they’re all wrong and he’s right

[inland steeple]

I mean I've said it already in this thread but it 100% makes sense for someone who creates a lobby to be able to manage who joins said lobby.

But if that includes kicking people who meet the min requirements then game should just be unranked.

[glossy grove]

what if we just added "Force" as a keyword on boss commands.

!start calls a vote to start. !force start just starts
!kickban calls a vote to kickban. !force kickban overrides the vote

make it very clear when boss is "overriding the will of the lobby"

[burnt ember]

It's fair to do this but it shouldn't be for ranked games. you don't get to choose who is excluded in ranked or it is another way to manipulate OS

[glossy grove]

reduce any investigation of abuse to that command instead of general kickban votes

[median fern]

Like, i've had some bad experience with 4+ chev OS 0 players actively sabotaging games. Which they would have needed to be doing for a while to reach that OS.

[chrome harbor]

It doesn’t make sense for High os who can only play in one of 1/2/3 lobby

[prisma anchor]

I really like this idea

[fervent cove]

yea doesn't it only applies to live games?

[median fern]

Sensible argument, wouldn't restricting ban and force spec in ranked lobbies be a possible solution?

[glossy grove]

signal boost the idea. its going to get burried very quickly

[prisma anchor]

Cookie man no offence but it seems that you don't know the rules properly

[glossy grove]

i discussed this with other frequent bosses and this has been a liked idea

[burnt ember]

yes it's been suggested multiple times but the discussion goes on

[glossy grove]

prevents accidentally using powers if you dont know if you're boss. when i'm not boss and call kickban it calls a vote, when i'm boss, it doesn't

[prisma anchor]

I like jagomus idea as that way boss abuse can be alot more easily defined

[glossy grove]

everything in the lobby should default to a vote (not just kickban) unless the boss specifically overrides the vote

[chrome harbor]

We are not worried so much about accidents by boss but boss abuse

[glossy grove]

boss can do this with "!ev"

[prisma anchor]

Yeah for sure, then maybe force votes can be reported

[steady otter]

these "large group of high os players" who say i troll, should download like my last 5 glitter replays and then explain how I am not performing at 50 OS

[limber lodge]

I think this is a really great idea

[chrome harbor]

Anyway they already nerfed boss I think. Maybe this is the next step to a more welcoming game

[prisma anchor]

5 games is not a good determining timeframe for you trolling or not

[steady otter]

well the more the better for my case

[prisma anchor]

If you drop from 70-50os and play suboptimally most people would consider you trolling

[median fern]

Is it that they don't like your playstyle or has there been some, uh, personal problems too?

[steady otter]

to drop from 70 to 50 u just need to play normal and u drop

[burnt ember]

Just out of curiosity is there a thread lock message limit or something? I'll be honest, this discussion is now running in circles racking up responses

[raw locust]

This is incorrect, the recent changes have not touched the boss abuse rules and kickbanning players from the lobby is not boss abuse.

[steady otter]

if u only do 1v4 u will drop from 70 to 50 because u are not doing 1v8 anymore

[burnt ember]

even the mods can't agree about what's in the CoC xD

[glossy grove]

os has an ability to make players think that their experience playing the game is worth more than other peoples

[inland steeple]

I completely understand the issue, I play alot less lately when only min rating lobbies are 8v8 glitters and strait, I understand the issue.

If kicking people for doing thing that are normal game mechanics makes the game unranked it would be a pretty large incentive to not do that in the upper level lobbies.

But there's plenty of valid uses for letting people manage lobbies however they want, those game should just not be ranked. (same as autobalance off/extra units on/etc. Imo these should never be ranked games)

[steady otter]

last year i was doing coop and they didnt like it. then there was personal issues as they dont like it when i call their gameplay suboptimal or even bad

[fervent cove]

Bro thought i don't have a master in BAR CoC 😄

[glossy grove]

have you broken every subsection yet? i want to know when your pokedex is finished

[median fern]

Hmm

[prisma anchor]

@raw locust these are the proposed solutions if you could pin or something as so much stuff getting drowned:

1. Remove boss powers for kickban and potentially spec
2. Make it so the boss can overwrite a vote but all commands are by default votes from the boss rather than force commands, this would help determine if a boss is abusing/going against the lobby's will.
3. Make it so kickbans from boss call a vote and if not enough people vote the bosses command goes through

[chrome harbor]

Yes our problem is it manipulates the competitive playing field

[steady otter]

they reference me as "ass" because i dont sugarcoat their gameplay strength

[glossy grove]

you reference us as "mafia" cause you think everyone is out to get you

[steady otter]

well u are xdd

[fading burrow]

Mb i forgot to read line 3 🤡

[raw locust]

@steady otter are you ok with those getting pinned or do you have amendments?

[median fern]

You could hide player names in Ranked lobbies. That would cut down on target banning a lot. Apparently it really helpe in LoL with manipulative behaviour.

[prisma anchor]

Referring to this

[burnt ember]

You're missing ranked lobbies with static settings and no bosses as one of the options

[fading burrow]

I have successfully become a source of misinformation

[steady otter]

why does 2. make all commands a vote... this hinders lobby setup

[glossy grove]

id say delete this and lets have a mod put up and pin the poll once the options are fleshed out

[inland steeple]

Yep I think we're in agreement on the problem, I just don't think removing the ability for boss to kick altogether in their lobby is a good solution.

Even for high level scrims having the ability to kick ppl who constantly join after being told not to is important or for when gru gang strikes (it's been a while thankfully)

But once you start doing that those games should 100% be unranked only.

[glossy grove]

2 was my ideea. everything is a vote but boss can use !force to override any vote and just push command through

[prisma anchor]

Boss can force through any commands

[sonic ember]

the issue is kickban not all the other random commmands that exist

[prisma anchor]

Okay just make it so those 2 commands are by default a vote then

As currently you can only call votes for bosses as boss

[steady otter]

from my/our side proposed suggestions been

1. boss has to vote for kick, kickban and spec. everything else no vote.
2. boss makes lobbies unranked by default
3. coc changed to apply its rules to pre-game lobby too
4. make kickbans and kick require 9/16 majority to pass
5. have current boss and 2nd mini boss with less permissions

[inland steeple]

I still think a quasi boss level that can change map and adjust min rating only would be a good solution too.

Full boss = unranked
Partial boss = can be ranked but limited powers

[fading burrow]

I don’t think 2 is necessary

[prisma anchor]

So we add Mine and jagomus proposed solutions and then we have a list of all proposed solutions rather than constant pointless noise

Then calla vote and lock thread

[fading burrow]

I don’t see a issue with lobbies being ranked and having a boss if 1 works out

[steady otter]

tho u need to consider that votes really make low sense when its only people in this conversation voting.

u would need to bring vote to average player to have good results

[prisma anchor]

How can we determine what the most wanted solution is?

Maybe can post it in main discord?

[fading burrow]

Where do you think you are typing in rn

[sonic ember]

kickbans should require a supermajority imo that would solve a lot of issues

[prisma anchor]

The main chat obviously

[fading burrow]

Ah

Well it well get drowned all the same prob

[steady otter]

main chat wipes data away too fast

[prisma anchor]

I think there should be a good way to gather data on this sort of problem could help the game alot

[raw locust]

The vote is not deciding anything no matter where you post it, at best it gives a vague idea of how contested the topic is

[steady otter]

we need community poll channel

[prisma anchor]

Maybe a vote page in the game on the right

[fading burrow]

Time to open another thread

[prisma anchor]

Yes agree

[fading burrow]

How do you think https://discord.com/channels/549281623154229250/1357007941563191392 came to be a thing

[prisma anchor]

Fuck being a mod for this game so much work unpaid lol

Well done to you guys

I think they just need to hurry up with matchmaking and steam release will solve so many problems like this

[steady otter]

i also think many issues been just ignored because "mm and new lobby coming" but then we sit for years on those problems because nothing is coming

[dreamy horizon]

One day we gonna miss these old school lobby sims. Feels like setting up lan tournament in school

20 years ago

[prisma anchor]

Yeah

[halcyon tide]

I agree with u.... 👉👈😳

[steady otter]

someone can pin this tho. will be op for referencing

[dreamy horizon]

I would also expand on some if the game settings being turned on by default 😄

Like set target on attack

Thanx youtube @candid basin

[prisma anchor]

pin my suggestions too as only fair since i dont like his solutions

[dreamy horizon]

I bet ton if newbs in front have hard time just because they dont have set target on attack on setting

[fading burrow]

Well i wouldn’t say nth is coming

We just got better lighting tdy

We are slowly ticking the boxes

[steady otter]

well that is not lobby or mm is it xdd

[fading burrow]

Well

#🏛️｜new-client

[steady otter]

i know that bar devs do a lot

just mm and lobby is a bit... away

[limber lodge]

And from my side we have

1. do nothing

[fervent cove]

That Xlive guy always brings huge advancements to the BAR ecosystem, whereas it is in gameplay or otherwise, such an outstanding individual pushing things forward

[glossy grove]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-interrogation-one-of-these-lives-has-a-future-choice-gif-24397451

[fading burrow]

Is @glossy grove a reaction bot he has said nothing besides clicking on everyone reactions

And ofc he sends a gif while i am typing that

[glossy grove]

XD

[glossy grove]

Tell me that gif isn’t perfect though

[fading burrow]

Taking that as a confession time to ban (jk)

[fading burrow]

I am not gonna pin Graceful’s
“1. do nothing.”

[raw locust]

https://discord.com/channels/549281623154229250/1309904457382887455

[halcyon tide]

This is why I react bot too. Some good ish I don't want drowned. You know, this post could be a react instead.

[fading burrow]

I said that as a half joke half serious because he was reacting 💯 and 💀 to the same message suggesting he was for it and against it

[limber lodge]

I made a picture to grab attention 😁

[fading burrow]

[halcyon tide]

well skull emoji is a complicated one. It could mean 'laughed so hard that I'm dead'

[limber lodge]

that is, indeed, what it means

[burnt ember]

pinned messages still missing having ranked lobbies with no boss, static settings, etc., and unranked lobbies where bosses can do whatever

[glossy grove]

wasnt the original post sarcasm? so both are applicable

[steady otter]

its my 2.

[burnt ember]

ah i see, but it doesn't also address !kickban abuse which seems important.. i think 9/16 in a ranked lobby just to make sure it's not small mafias, but that's kinda a detail

[steady otter]

i can add under 4.

[plucky bramble]

i'm in favour of votable tweaks on ranked games. reality is balance team take a while to fix broken stuff, so imagine playing glitters with rag or SI with unnerfed flag. OS is far from competitive at the moment due to dodge, partying, low os battery. tweaks testing adds data points

when matchmaking eventually rolls in and os can actually be competitive then disable tweaks sure

also emphasizing splitting ranked/unranked can lead to population problem. op lobby is prolly just going to have one or the other, not both at the same time

[flint thunder]

Also unranked would need to have a hidden OS or something like that, otherwise games would be unbalanced when players stay the same OS but get better.

[lilac cliff]

That's just ranked with hidden os bro. My game os gonna be 20os, but I game unranked and become 50os hidden os and now I go play regular where I'm 20 again? The game knows I'm 50 already.

[spring cloud]

League has hidden normals mmr

[lilac cliff]

We have a single OS system now that doesn't work that great as a 30os all welcome player is different from 30os op lobby player, 30os rotato/glitters/isthmus different from each other etc. I can't really see a good way to fragment this into a matchmaking OS and hidden/normal OS that are separate and this improving the system.

[spring cloud]

You just listed issues stemming from no match making. What that have to do with ranked and normals

[lilac cliff]

Are they even going to add proper matchmaking for 8v8, I thought it would just be for 1v1/2v2?

Can't see how 8v8 matchmaking for e.g. isthmus would work when there's 1-2 thousand activate players at peak times outside of the 0-20os range. Anything above the 20os range would probably suffer the same OS spread issues that current lobbies see.

[old yoke]

I don't think we've set in stone how large they're going for matchmaking.

I'm pretty confident it will at least have small team matchmaking.

Why aren't we including "no change" on the pinned posts for voting?

[candid basin]

got you homie 👊

also

[steady otter]

because this are not votes xd

we tried to setup voting but would probably need to do externally

[dreamy horizon]

I just gotta start loving sea and front

[limber lodge]

idk it should be

[rare flare]

Making kickban a vote-only won't solve any problems imo, there is always "i see green button i press green button" thing

[mighty pier]

Cabal is an appropriate term for the use case ur applying it to

[pearl bear]

Replacing KB by 15min forced spec would solve half the problem, which is unable to watch OP lobby games out of spite of boss

[sonic ember]

great idea

[limber lodge]

with this there will need to be some method of muting the player as well...

[sonic ember]

there should definitely be a force mute

[pearl bear]

i dont think mute is crucial, if they speak BS or spam, it's reportable

[limber lodge]

but then you have someone you cant remove who sits there spamming the lobby from spec

[pearl bear]

sure but does this even happen? there might be talk about why spec, but this is positive IMO, since a person can realize why it happened, even if its a slim chance

[limber lodge]

yes, it happens

[chrome harbor]

Honestly how is the reaction of some people to this thread not harassment of x factor. The dude just wants to play the game and like 5-10 ppl descend on his thread to insult and tell him and he can’t play unless he joins a discord and is friends with them. It’s fucked

Just leave the guy alone and let him play like everyone else. Dude literally won the tournament on this map (glitters). It’s farcical to kick him because his play isn’t good enough

Also this https://youtu.be/8ZWKP9jIUF8?si=PCmQsJFSjsyG1WPc

[sonic ember]

xfactor is op anyone that pretends he isnt is cope af

[chrome harbor]

You people are constantly kicking ppl and it’s ruining the game.

If you wanna be kings of a game you and only your friends play fine but it’s shit for the game. Have fun

And if mods allow this it’s on them

Then they come here with threats in effect.

[candid basin]

OP ending

[carmine river]

sometimes the reasons are beyond the game, mainly attitude..

like for example I know jane kicks conquer because he said he'll rape her, I'm pretty sure he meant beat her in game but regardless she didn't like it and now kickbans him on sight

[sonic ember]

< be me
< tell my cousin to play all the time, urge them bar is a fun game
< she finally says she downloaded game and played against AI and loves the sounds
< come over to her house one weekend ask her about bar
< she told me she got kicked everytime she joined multiplayer because shes new so she uninstalled

[chrome harbor]

I don’t know anything about that. That’s disgusting . It doesn’t apply to x factor as far as I know

[carmine river]

prob not, I'm not up to date with the glitters kickban lore if im being honest

but for me the last time I was kickbanning someone on sight was after they dgunned my base 30s into the game

[chrome harbor]

No reputable gamer should be getting kicked from the highest rating lobbies

[carmine river]

I kickbanned them on sight for a bout a week

[chrome harbor]

That’s different

Of course active griefers can be kicked

But there’s no regular of high os games who does that really

[pastel isle]

can I dgun your base pls

[carmine river]

you can dgun 1 wind turbine

[chrome harbor]

Can I dgun 2 if I give you 2 solar just to see how it feels

[carmine river]

im also gonna say the kb treatment isnt the most fair..

for example im pretty sure bigallman would be getting kickbanned for all the wind/blueprints he builds in other ppl's bases if he wasn't [APE] or friends with glitter fellas.

that's as much as im gonna get involved in this drama though

[fresh schooner]

he sucks

[chrome harbor]

that guy kb me as soon as i joined his lobby i dont think i ever played with him even

[fresh schooner]

u also?

[cerulean mantle]

this is what we should change in the CoC:

"Examples of boss abuse include: kickbanning rule-abiding players after a match has begun."

Allowing anyone to kickban midgame without vote because of their narrow-minded interpretation of the CoC is a just enabling abuse in the first place.

Otherwise you get people like xthrawn who weaponize the CoC to cope with their tilt.

[raw locust]

what's the point of having a command you can't use

and will be moderated for using

[fossil parcel]

Markonorth abuses the boss system by kickbanning anybody that beats him and he's still only 11 OS

when his lobby dies my parties will vote unboss him before he can !ev and then we vote kickban him

[cerulean mantle]

well thats how it should be, if we didn't have that command by default and someone tried to suggest it, it would be shutdown really fast

imagine someone making that suggestion in any other competitive pvp game. "I should be able to kickban my opponent or ally without them being able to do anything about it mid match"

[raw locust]

then ask for that instead, not to change the CoC to outlaw using an accessible command under all circumstances

it's backwards and people keep doing it

[cerulean mantle]

well the command can still exist in the pregame lobby, and from my other thread I was under the impression that it would be difficult to implement that change, so changing the coc is the next best solution

[raw locust]

well it's certainly easier on a technical level, but having a command you're forbidden to use, because disabling that command was too much work, is ridiculous

[cerulean mantle]

thats what I think too. But there's also no reason to allow kickban mid game until a volunteer dev implements the change to fix the root of the problem and disallow the command.

[raw locust]

everyone is a volunteer dev if you care enough

[mighty pier]

This is so good. 😂

[mighty pier]

I once Dgunned Fans whole base by accident. I was aiming for a tick that was going for the t2 converters and i may have, just kinda, just a teeny little bit...skimmed the Afus. Well...that was the end of that. XD. I couldnt stop laughing so i think i just tapped out and gifted my base XD. Still cracks me up.

[hard topaz]

Name drop. As the most experienced supreme player my word does have weight: We have had many tourney winners or good players who don't have any interest in winning the game. If they do it many games in row making games 2 hour long just becouse they can or instantly dying doing a meme. Don't act like angels. You are not victims... If you fuck around enought you gonna find out. Not every kickban falls out of the bluesky.... Atm I know the games will be shit when PLAYER X shows up whit slaves or no intention of fighting a lane/winning game. Ppl are regularly given a chance to prove they not here to grief op supreme. The community will use kick tools you if you grief or break lobby rules. I think real boss abuse issue would be fixed once we get one click matchmaking going whitout any social tools/player power... like aoe4 or many other rts matchmaking.

[mighty pier]

Yeah absolutely, consistent behaviour should be recognised and appropriately mitigated if possible. Its the only way to teach a lesson or to learn one. The issue lies when the punishment takes on a personal vendetta or identity. Then its ceases to be effective and then just gets weaponised. Which is what I think this whole thread is trying to determine the best course of action to veer clear of. How to deweaponise Boss Mode whilst at the same time preserving its effectiveness.

Maybe all kick bans should just be resolved with $Roll 100 . Let the Dice of Destiny decide your fate 😂 💯

[pastel isle]

what if xfactors just a bad player and hes been getting carried in BPL by his teammates

[mighty pier]

Honestly the best solution for this as previously stated several times is to give boss the power to call the vote but not enact it. And a proper majority is required. Thats the cleanest and fairest way to solve this.

[gloomy vector]

Ok but the boss made his own lobby, and if he doesn't want to play with someone he can kick them. I dont see why would they even be forced to justify their actions in that case, just make your own lobby if u get kicked then lmao. Thats what boss is for anyway - managing ur own lobby.

[cerulean mantle]

but we want the pros of having a boss, like settings and specing afk, without the cons like midgame kickban

[mighty pier]

Hence the conundrum. 🤷‍♂️

[bleak sun]

what is the duration to rejoin a bkicked lobby?

[deft lava]

I think there already is a mute vote, just people know about and/or use it

[wild blaze]

had same issue in pve community where there used to be only 1 main lobby unless its evening/weekend. the issue kinda solved itself After i gitgud so no need for salt anymore After it became more popular and the lobby count increased to 3-6 lobbies up usually, so solution 1 is for everyone to stop sucking and git gud so that more OP lobbies can be opened simultaniously

solution 2 is adding a toggle setting to stop any type of sharing coop even t2 cons everything, or figuring out something smart to draw a line between full and half coop

cause its totally bs to expect competitive ranked players to not abuse a LEGAL strategy to the max

eighter have to ban it completely or allow it completely

[fluid star]

Nah man its mandatory to sit in the 20 man quene that could be another lobby...rules are rules bro

and anyway if you only spec you can never get suffer games

[wild blaze]

also someone mentioned putting labels on kickban votes i.e. when you vote kickban you have to select a reason, this is a pretty underrated idea i think. if you have to put a specific kick reason people cant morally vote yes on it anymore(for other reasons) it at least mitigates it a tiny bit, sounds like a smart idea

[prisma anchor]

Reading this thread is so mind numbing and so many brainless comments

[lilac cliff]

There's not enough people to keep 2 high os lobbies at the same time. Even a single lobby can only last 2-3 matches with minrating 30 before it falls apart and that's on some specific days of the week.

I'm personally fine with there being a change so that some mallcop version of a boss exists that can change lobby settings and min/max ratings. I've seen lobbies struggle to up minchev/minrating when 10 people in the lobby 5+ chev and 20+ os but there a few low chev low os people that for some reason want to insta die to a 50os/6chev. This mallcop can't kickban tho or spec anyone that readied up and not ZZZ.

[wild blaze]

2 different tiers of boss idea is pretty smart i think, where the normal tier can manage settings but require a votekick but the 2nd tier(good for private lobbies etc) can kick without vote

[lilac cliff]

Then you know if you joined mallcop or boss lobby. Mallcops can't abuse kick, and if you join a boss lobby then you just gotta deal with it if you get kicked.

[wild blaze]

ye im down with that

alltho we need to figure out a better name for mallcop lmao

[cerulean mantle]

I went with big boss but apparently thats not popular either

[fluid star]

a way to get around afk players that have to be removed is to have auto match start timer that triggers when lobby is filled and after timer is done non readied players are autospecced

i think that anything that can be automated should be

[cursive ore]

Coop played with noobs all the time, if someone had problems there it was usually because of constant griefing, lies and toxicity...

[wild blaze]

maybe "host"(cannot kick/spec, only start votes like the rest) and "boss"(can kick but cannot play ranked) right click player options becomes "vote for host" and "make boss"(but boss is only available when starting up the lobby or passing it on)

[cerulean mantle]

we need a min chev / rating setting for threads

[mighty pier]

Or something like only 8v8 lobby bosses require a kickban vote

[wild blaze]

its not really an 8v8 thing, its in a lot modes

[prisma anchor]

Yeah lol

[flint thunder]

Dictator and Dictator Lite would be nice.

[cursive ore]

Let's make a hypothetical example. Let's say that BAR is celebrating a big event. Maybe 1 millionth player, or 50 years anniversary or whatever. So BAR team organises a big game night. 70v10 player huge games, with some specific rules like norush timer, no offencive juno etc. With tens of thousands of people looking at live streams. Something like that have already happened in the past, in smaller scale, so why not. Let's say BAR team chooses a trusted streamer to host this event as a boss.

And now let's say that game starts, and one player starts attacking enemys before norush time has passed, and junoing bases etc. Screaming that he is the best and most important player in world, and it is most optimal thing to do. And others dont know how to play. Now let's imagine that above propositions in this thread have passed, and boss can no longer kickban... The trusted boss tries to make a vote, but half the players are noobs that never vote yes to a kickban, and other half, some are "friends" of the guy not respecting rules and some players just dont vote. So there is no way to get rid of the guy, and even if BAR team makes another game, he can just join it again and ruin it again. With all the specatators and publicity involved...

Seems like a bad idea for me to remove bosses powers.

[deft lava]

Restricting boss powers from players, is not restricting it from admins

[wild blaze]

ptaq would have probably already spawned 2 king penguins on his base to silence him in that scenario😁

[cursive ore]

So only admins can play/ make different lobbys?

[deft lava]

That is a different question - I was merely pointing out how your hypothetical is not a comparison of equivalents

[cursive ore]

My hypothetical is to underline that some people sometimes want to make different lobbys and games, and it is a good thing.

Even if they are not admins.

[raw locust]

Maybe I'm still not gud or satly, but there's never a good lobby still. However, if I make one, it fills 10x as fast as it used to, so hurray

[wild blaze]

depends on timezone i feel like, around the EU evening its often packed with pve lobbies, better chance to find good one, but even at downtimes theres at least 2-3(albeit probably evocom 10x buildrange 10xmetal bs XD)

[mighty pier]

Maybe we should make a BAR Coffee Table Book filled with all of discords longest threads XD

[bleak sun]

I kick banned alot of people today

[slender bane]

Maybe create a new mode similar to boss called "quick settings" where you get the benefits of bossmode but anything that removes players (eg: kickban) requires a vote

@steady otter ^

[vagrant thistle]

Basically what we suggested however I don't think it'll do anything for the issue, as the ones who tend to abuse will just put themselves in boss mode and not 'quick settings' mode regardless

[slender bane]

Then boycott the people who use bossmode instead of quick settings when it's unnecessary

[vagrant thistle]

won't happen

boss abuse players usually target some specific players, not the entire lobby, so a lot of players couldn't care less if 1 or 2 or 3 people get removed unjustly

[slender bane]

I see, that's bad

Anyways this doesn't affect me at all since I'll never be good enough for op lobby so I'll go back to lurking lol

[lilac cliff]

It does something for the issue, it gives more choice. Right now there's no middle ground between managing minrating/chev effectively and being able to boss abuse. If boss abuse is such a big issue, then bossed lobbies shouldnt be able to survive long compared to these quick settings lobbies.

[cursive ore]

You cant say that all people boss abuse. There are choice between nonbossed lobbys and good bosses, or maybe eventually some abusive bosses too. Everybody can choose good boss or host his own lobby. And that is what people are doing every day until now. Thats why about 99% of kickbans I have seen were justified. And I dont have problem with the 1% too, because I just refuse to play with those bosses, like most players. If boss abuse would be a big thing, long time ago people would have stopped playing with those bad bosses.

It is lie to say that BAR has only handful of high rated players and 1-2 ranked players, and noone to play with. BAR has lots of players in between. Supposedly +10000 daily players. And most players play in mixed lobbys. High rated players can do it too. You can argue that balance works bad outside the high rated, but that is totally different subject to adress.

[slender bane]

Pros don't want to play outside of op lobbies because they would steamroll everyone else

It wouldn't be fun for them

[cursive ore]

Then there is a balance problem, fix it.

[slender bane]

In what way is it a balance problem?

[cursive ore]

Rating does not represent correctly players ratings and does not allow for balanced matches. If it is true what you say....

[slender bane]

I think you have a reading comprehension problem

[steady otter]

It's not even about stomping but also the opposite u get 7 team members who struggle at everything they do and get rolled every lane. It's overall not fun in any case

[slender bane]

What do you think of this solution xfactor?

[cursive ore]

So it is not true that they would steamroll everybody? 🙂

[slender bane]

Rating does correctly represent. Noobs have low rating and pros have high rating. So pros don't play in low os lobbies. How is this a balance issue?

[steady otter]

Not always. Sometimes playing as high os in nub lobby is unwinnable

8 competent in enemy team only u in urs

[cursive ore]

So @slender bane is wrong...

[steady otter]

@slender bane Also ur idea I don't understand what's the difference to boss having full powers and just kick kickban tools are vote

[steady otter]

One does not exclude the other

[slender bane]

Ok fine, I was wrong about pros steamrolling everyone else, but my point about them not wanting to play low os lobbies still stands

[cursive ore]

They are always steamrolling everybody always or not, so it is exclusive.

[deft lava]

Is being steamrolled fun?

[steady otter]

Ima dodge this conversation for now

[flint thunder]

You can join a noob lobby, steamroll 2-3 players and still lose the game because your whole team is afk and losing.

[cursive ore]

Steamrolling 2-3 players is not the same as steamrolling everybody, but this gets totally pointless as discussion 🙂

[slender bane]

Sometimes boss kickban is necessary, so my approach allows for the existence of both boss's insta kickban and a vote kickban if you want the benefits of bossmode without the pseudo fascism

[slender bane]

You are fixating on the steamrolling point without addressing the root issue

[cursive ore]

One person pretends that they always steamroll, meanng balance does not work, if it is not case than those games can be pretty fun.

[slender bane]

Well clearly it's not fun for them if they're not playing noob lobbies

[deft lava]

That in no way answers my question

[cursive ore]

Yes, but seems now that it is actually not a steamrolling everybody... So the question lost its interest kind of.

[slender bane]

...

[flint thunder]

I like the idea that you can have 2 types of boss. This would make it easier as boss to give other players the right to change the lobby or spec people without giving them permission to kickban people.

Not everyone is trustworthy enough to give them boss, so the option to have another role would be nice.

[steady otter]

ye 2 boss could be good, maybe even restrict to 1 main boss otherwise people just will give main boss anyway. so like 1 main boss and then the others hosts or whatever name u come up with with less power

if no boss in lobby. hosts or lobby can vote for new boss

[fossil parcel]

Here's my schizo take: I honestly don't believe OS even matters unless you're consistently in the top 100 leaderboards, there's so many 30+ OS players that get blown up and lose front 8 trying to push canyon on glitters and they'll immediately flame front 4 and 7 and be toxic the rest of the game for their mistake for losing their lane

There's also just a large abundant of "high" OS players that don't do any productive actions per minute as well as having low actions per minute, low stats on the team in a front position, and they're usually relatively toxic but want to kickban others

Imo, the game is becoming even more extremely toxic as of lately and almost every match I play in these lobbies there's somebody quite literally not playing the game and just flaming others, also there's just a lot of people practically just afk'ing in base not playing the game (not making units, sometimes greeding, no productive actions on their lane) I think we need to address the people issue more than anything and honestly boss powers gives a lot of these people's unchecked ego's and they believe this behavior is okay because they're not been punished for it and others are enabling it

That's my two cents on this whole thread tbh, some form of a host that can't outright ban players without a vote but can manage match settings without a vote sounds good to me, and I think it would mellow out a handful of issues mentioned in this thread, the game feels absolutely miserable to play right now because of the players but I'm too addicted to bar at this moment to do anything more positively beneficial to my life, hands down though, this game is absolutely horrendous to play BECAUSE of the community

Here's my recommendation: Ranked Game 1 Bosses cannot kickban without votes, they can spec unreadied players and adjust game settings

Ranked Game 0 bosses have full control of their lobby, since it's unranked 🤷 if you want to echo chamber your matches, who you play with/against , etc, then play unranked
(Edit: Perhaps lobbies should be locked to Ranked Game 1/0 based on a choice picked before creating the lobby, that way a boss doesn't switch to Ranked Game 0, ban players, then switch back)

This should at least mitigate majority of the problems IMO

[steady otter]

That's probably the cleanest solution

[fossil parcel]

I forgot to mention Ranked Game switching^ I edited my comment

[raw locust]

So you're ok if they spec you, or does it become a minigame of if you can ready faster?

[fossil parcel]

Perhaps the spec action gives a window for them to ready up, 5 seconds?

[raw locust]

Setting aside the question of if it's desirable, that solution is very far from clean

[fossil parcel]

I think it'd be worth a shot tbh

Force spec command once passed gives 5 seconds for a ready up, otherwise it specs them

[raw locust]

2k messages in and we're still proposing things that fall apart if you think about them for 3 seconds

[fossil parcel]

I think some experimental action is better than no action, perhaps keep the regular lobby system, then do a seperate system for what many here agree on mutually, see which system works not only better but contains less incidents

I mean the biggest problem is that it's not going to stop until either the players stop enabling it or they lose their power

[slender bane]

2000!?!?

[fossil parcel]

It'll be another 2000 if we shoot down ideas than try to innovate imo, maybe lobbies/players should have a timer before they can be force spec'd upon getting a player slot, there's many angles to tackle it

Part of me also just says for ranked games let's just remove boss and give nobody power, so if those who want it cry and complain they can (hopefully) realize that they ruined those privileges

[slender bane]

I'm against any form of removing boss completely because there still needs to be a way to kick players if you're just playing with friends

[fossil parcel]

Well for that just do ranked game 0

Then my original plan above would work

[slender bane]

What if you want a ranked game with friends

[fossil parcel]

Idk theres a weird barrier there imo, imagine if in league of legends you could just custom game ranked with friends, you'd all be challenger

That's not something I personally would agree with

[slender bane]

Currently that's only possible in ffa

3 players playing each other gain infinite os

[fossil parcel]

Yea my duel OS is 28 because I beat my cousin 8/9 games

It's not ideal but that's just me, I do not think private matches should have ranked

[slender bane]

But still, you beat him fairly so the rating increase was deserved

hopefully

[fossil parcel]

I mean I guess but the same could be said if he stood still and I just walked my com over and placed a guard and farmed him

[raw locust]

we need a primer for people on what ranked games are in bar

[fossil parcel]

That's why its too dodgy imo

[raw locust]

that you have to read and answer a short quiz on before you comment in suggestions

[fading burrow]

New clan ?

[raw locust]

I know this is a yapping thread but that's too far

[slender bane]

No, renamed clan

Btw xfactor if you're reading this, I'm still waiting for you to join

[fading burrow]

To ?

[slender bane]

Beyond All Cortex

[fading burrow]

Wait no this is offtopic

Go to #⭐｜main

[fading burrow]

Mb i shall remove our stains

Nvm

Bots don’t work in threads oh well

[slender bane]

Leave it, I need xfactor to see

[livid aurora]

And if, by default kick & spec vote from boss involve vote of all players, and you need to prefixe !force to instant apply the vote. Like reverse the logic of !cv, that would add a step. Idk it is just an idea, it add one step to think about the command, maybe help some emotional kb

[median fern]

Maybe limiting ranked mode to a certain skill bracket and with limited boss powers would be a solution?

[bleak sun]

wow this shit still going on?

ladies calm down if you can't fill a lobby of your own and is trash/trolling don't expect to still have a place in lobbies like op glitters. Simple as that.

Don't come bragging why you got kicked when your performance is dog shit simple as that.

[median fern]

I mean the games with an OS differential of over 20 are hardly accurate for skill gauging anyhow.

[fossil parcel]

^

[slender bane]

Xfactor and dogshit should not be in the same paragraph let alone the same sentence

[bleak sun]

There's a point on when you are a team player and when you aren't the recent games I've watched him play he was trolling hard

[median fern]

How about you either contribute to the discussion or go back to kick-banning peeps in your lobby 😛

[bleak sun]

making 20 afuses when your team is dying and complaining why they died is not ideal.

[bleak sun]

How about you stop complaining and go fill your own shit lobby

This is absoutly waste of time to have this convo and Idk how the fuck its still going on.

[slender bane]

Ok both of you zip it, this is mudslinging territory

[median fern]

Then don't be here.

[bleak sun]

You're part of a team play like one. otherwise get kick banned.

[median fern]

Also this tone is not acceptable.

[fossil parcel]

I don't get kicked from these lobbies but I watch many others get kicked and I disagree with a lot of them, it's usually toxic behavior from both parties OR the boss itself being toxic, somebody contests their ego, then they kickban

To support that behavoir is WHY we are here

[median fern]

We support that?

[bleak sun]

Supporting or not supporting I've seen you play in our lobbies you tend to not troll = you get to stick around cannot be said to everyone else it's that simple

[fluid star]

bro master of looking away anytime ridicilous kb's happen

[fossil parcel]

You missed the point of the comment though, I see a lot more kickbans based on emotion/arguments rather than a players perfomance

[median fern]

That sounds entirely believable.

[fossil parcel]

"Don't pass the vibe check or personality check?" "You're gone pal"

[bleak sun]

Even toxic arugments are another thing it's usually caused by the players who troll

[median fern]

I did get kick-banned once for being shit at navy ;D

[bleak sun]

Yeah so go deal with it be better

[fossil parcel]

I see the bosses being more toxic typically, usually because nobody can do anything about it

[bleak sun]

nothing else to say really.

[rare flare]

nothing wrong with it

[bleak sun]

it's their lobby you don't just poke 10 bosses all gamers who want to enjoy a simple glitters you either join the fun don't be toxic no horrible performance and done

[median fern]

<@&549291872192036874> is this normal here?

[sleek stream]

leonchervez
Please remember that the <@&549291872192036874> and support teams consist entirely of volunteers, with lives, families, jobs and all that. As much as we'd like to be able to consistently stay on top of things for BAR, real life takes priority - we will get to it as soon as we can.

[bleak sun]

Why should it not be normal? sorry but if you hide behind mods for your performance then there's nothing else to say

[raw locust]

telling someone to go deal with it is definitely not the worst I've seen in this thread

[slender bane]

It's not their lobby, it's op lobby. Every pro should be welcome

[bleak sun]

This is absoutly absurd.

[fossil parcel]

Well I'll have to agree to disagree because I don't see it that way, I find them to impact the lobbies more negatively than positively, IMO 🤷

[bleak sun]

Close this thread it's a waste of time really

[median fern]

And you cultivate such behaviour here?

[slender bane]

Maybe for you, I for one see some good suggestions here. If you don't like the discussion, just leave the thread

[rare flare]

the what?

[raw locust]

Deal with it

[fossil parcel]

It's not that bad he just supports the behavoir nothing against CoC

[median fern]

Okay

[fossil parcel]

Just an attitude issue 🤷 arguing with him doesn't give us any positive grounds to stand on

[bleak sun]

listenn I tend to be in these everyday it's always the same deal.

some bad player loses lane causes the whole team to lose, or an op player who trolls. You don't have to join that's your own free will

[raw locust]

(sorry, it had to be said)

[median fern]

Guess i'm out, no wonder you guys have lobby problems, if this type of interaction is the norm.

[old yoke]

I'm feeling like this is a kettle calling the pot black kinda situation

[bleak sun]

The problem isnt the mods it's the players like you that's the issue

[rare flare]

guess we'll need to deal with it

[median fern]

I didn't start my input to the convo with "you guys are wrong and need to close the thread".

Anyhow, it's been fun if short 🙂

[raw locust]

But yes, ideally we'd close it

but now that I've accepted that nothing will ever come of it, maybe it's safe to leave as a yapping thread

[bleak sun]

all for activities sake i like it

[old yoke]

I still don't understand why OP players are so obsessed with forcing themselves into other players/lobbies, instead of developing social skills.

[bleak sun]

anyways I hope my statements reached to people because it's really absurd either you comply play like a team don't troll or you get the boot

Cio!

[fluid star]

duxi

was the player that failed to gift 30 pawns to rainbow at the start of the game kicked fairly?

that same player solo held rainbow todays vs 67os

these standards that you are describing as being enforced are fictional

its whatever the fuck boss feels like at the moment

[fossil parcel]

Nah I already talk with Notyouraveragepawn (my little pookiebear) daily about how we absolutely love this game and (some) people but it's going to flop when it hits steam due to the horrible community and lobby issues, nobody new will be able to learn because they get kicked instead of guided

[livid aurora]

We have some data on the correlation between high OS on BAR and high spectrum of autism, and autistic people are not humans with best social skills.. I also think playing a lot video game make some "acquired temporary autism" by the level of concentration it required, but it is just some empirical though from me, nothing with strong scientific proof, just imo

[cerulean mantle]

what

[fossil parcel]

If they refuse to learn then sure, maybe escalate, but if you go hey don't spam advanced solar at 15 minutes, make wind brother, someday they could be 30 os, instead of banishing them

[fossil parcel]

I'm autistic and I'm chilling usually

I think there's a line between lacking social skills vs being a miserable unbearable human being in an echo chamber

[old yoke]

A theme of these boss threads/reports is that players made themselves unwelcome in some way, then expect dev/mod team to force them into a room together, instead of dealing with the issue themselves.

Because totally nothing can go wrong by putting two angst filled internet warriors in an echo chamber together.

[cerulean mantle]

yea there isnt multiple lobbies up that exist for us

its like a thing theres only ever 1 lobby up that is remotely playable for us. sometime not even 1

[flint thunder]

It could be good entertainment for 1. April

[slender bane]

How about from now on BAC hosts op lobbies but doesn't play in them unless the members are high enough os

[cerulean mantle]

its not even os

you ever watch those high os players who have got high os with dodge meta / party abuse, boss abuse, mono spam map, meta slaving when you remove all these tools to them

[fossil parcel]

Oh god so many of them would tank OS LOL

[bleak sun]

You need to reprehase that our lobbies the ones people are complaining about right now are always 4-5chevs + 20-30 os minimum

These "new players" don't exist here for a specific reason

[cerulean mantle]

they do tank os, and then people interpret them going from 70 to 50os in their lobby as them "trolling" instead of just not abusing the same tools they used to prior

[fossil parcel]

A 3 chev 20 os is new enough to me, they still don't even know how to carpet bomb, most of these lobbies are min chev 3 that I personally join, they may up the chev level to 4 here and there but not really, so I personally Will not be rephrasing

[bleak sun]

These are not new players eagle.

also even then 3 chevs aren't allowed

[fervent cove]

Idk 1 mod didn't even know the CoC and another don't even know high os players are forced to play on the same lobby coz there isn't even enough players to have 1 lobby stacked with good players

[slender bane]

Well the problem is that smile and ape are hosting these lobbies right?

[bleak sun]

amen but without the mod part.

[fossil parcel]

Sorry man I simply disagree and this won't go anywhere positive

[bleak sun]

you need to rethink what "new players are" dont spread missinformation please

[cerulean mantle]

he doesnt mean new player cooki he mean inexperienced player obviously

[raw locust]

Any volunteers to do the work instead?
And I'm pretty sure Pooman understands the op lobby situation, but is nonetheless unsympathetic.

[fossil parcel]

He's got very strong opinions but I just don't agree 🤷

[cerulean mantle]

like I was 40 os without having made a single navy unit or knew how to use most T2 and T3 units, I wasnt a new player and I wasnt a noob but I was very inexperienced

[opaque swift]

Im sorry not a huge fan of this assertion. Autism doesn't make you an asshole to other people. Some people might claim to use it as an excuse (whether or not they are actually diagnosed), but it really isn't. People who are not on the spectrum are just as likely to be assholes (or in my subjective experience probably more likely)

[bleak sun]

this is not a guide lobby this is a lobby for gamers.

[fading burrow]

Ok man i am taking that personally and will now hold a grudge for eternity

Jk

[bleak sun]

if you want a guide lobby @fossil parcel go play with low os players if you may

if you want to teach them do that elsewhere also

[fluid star]

I think we have a trend of any OP lobby eventually getting "captured" by "mafia" because these people just care more about the social dynamics and networking than they do about being op at the game

[bleak sun]

I am not here to teach people how to play the game I am here to enjoy the games with my friends who don't troll.

[cerulean mantle]

networking is op some people reach 60 os by doing that

[slender bane]

Then make op lobbies without mafia involvement

[fluid star]

thats cool, we just dont want you to be able to decide who is trolling and who is not based on a whim

who even made you trolling comissar? 🙂

[fossil parcel]

You're taking my general statement a too far beyond the reach man, it was a general statement not specific to new players and blending that with my other view of the "OP lobbies", you're coming at me too head on without chilling

[bleak sun]

voncomet you have claimed boss mutliple times and you're involved in this don't claim otherwise.

[opaque swift]

I think there is a natural human tendency for people to make "in groups" so its a bit inevitable unless there are systematic ways of preventing it

[fluid star]

me getting bossed on occasion does not mean shit and is a non argument

[bleak sun]

because you're spreading missinformation moment you stop that I'll let you loose

[subtle nimbus]

I would personally agree that the amount of kickbanning and increasing amount is a worrying trend, that's definitely something that I've personally noted and has been expressed in this thread. But I haven't seen any good solutions that both allow people to curate their lobbies, keep moderators uninvolved from lobby politics, and have a reasonably intuitive ux.

[raw locust]

is it actually increasing? Do we have any metrics on that?

[subtle nimbus]

Well it's definitely increased over the time I've been playing

[raw locust]

it can't be as bad as during the block drama, surely

[opaque swift]

I kinda like the full boss power => unranked idea

[fossil parcel]

Lol no man, you're too emotional and looking for confrontation, I disagree and that's simply it, 3 chevs 20 os is still new to me, and I still come across many 4 chevs who still lack a ton of understanding, I personally consider that new and we won't see eye to eye

[slender bane]

@subtle nimbus

[bleak sun]

stats always increase when more and more players join this game

[fading burrow]

Definitely

[bleak sun]

It's not me being "too emotional" it's like I told you. False news. I don't wanna hear your shit that makes no sense

[old yoke]

I'm feeling like it's a similar flavor of boss blocks, but now we see kicks instead of people being blocked from joining.

[fossil parcel]

Well we're not getting anywhere here so 🤷 I don't know what to tell you

[fading burrow]

When i first started people got pissed cos i played bad sure but still it was giving tips not giving kickbans

[bleak sun]

yeah what os/chev were you at that point?

[fading burrow]

1

[subtle nimbus]

that was the joke lmao
but anyway, having a boss-mode-that's-not-quite-the-same-as-other-boss mode isn't a good solution, too confusing about what type of lobby it is and what settings are allowed and what type of boss and stuff

[bleak sun]

and what kind of lobby did you join at that given time?

[fading burrow]

Xd

[bleak sun]

This makes no asboulte sense nightmare bro. These players above are complaining why we often kick ban players when our min chev is often 20-30 and chev min 4-5

lobby recuirements are there for a reason.

when you tell me you didnt get kick banned when you were 1 chev I would believe you since the lobby you were in is noobs only.

[deft lava]

Pretty sure the data is in theory available, that was one of my first questions in this thread 🙂

[fading burrow]

Meh when i started op rotato and stuff it was the same

I was prob 4 or early 5 chev

Playing roles i never had before

[raw locust]

In theory.

[flint thunder]

Also sometimes people are told that they should rather join noob lobby or spectate the game and not play in OP lobby. Its not like everyone gets kicked immediately after the game because of bad performance.

[opaque swift]

Id argue there are far more confusing parts of the ui. But you could just make kickban commands votes instead of instant if ranked is enabled

[fossil parcel]

I agree and was in a similar boat in summer of 2023

[bleak sun]

does this lobby tell you:

COme here and learn or play with us to win

There has to be logic.

[raw locust]

this is telling me to go look up the logs on who named it that

[deft lava]

Yes, very much in theory 🙂

[bleak sun]

LOL

[fading burrow]

Hell i was on that round map duo sea with kcorp while i was over here with basically 0 sea experience and he was giving me tips and i think we lost sea cos of a sub ambush or stm but it definitely did not get me kickbanned before next match

[fluid star]

why are you pretending this is about kicking new players who cant play the game from op lobby

nobody was talking about that at all

[fading burrow]

Go do it xd

[bleak sun]

because that's why people get kicked out most time its because of the performance in the game itself and then the trolls like we had the situation with xfactor

that game was absoultely dog shit he trolled for 40min straight. ofc he will get kick banned

[fluid star]

go read the thread seriously

[slender bane]

Xfactor said this wasn't the first time

[bleak sun]

also just saying xfactor only made this thread to get you peasents to agree with him when he was kick banned from alot of 8v8 games simply because he was trolling himself.

[slender bane]

Also I would suggest you to leave the thread if you don't intend on having constructive convos duxii

[bleak sun]

it's funny really

[fluid star]

bro we are all in the lobbies we all know what is going on

[rare flare]

Play stupid games - win stupid prizes

[fluid star]

people are getting banned left and right every day for non reasons

[slender bane]

I'd never play an op lobby but I still support xfactors pov