All That Smolders Feedback

[chrome yew]

looks like u can afu on the new one maybe

[lavish rampart]

Well Simmer is my new favorite version right now lol.... but Im much more of a raid style gameplay fan of the original and generally don't enjoy the 10-20 titan stack battles I have been having on smolders.

Having those little ponds into and out of canyon on the map edge makes for some interesting plays

Being able to mix in tigers/salamnders/banishers and peel off the Salamanders mid skirmish to raid down river is great

Definatly seems to have a canyon issue but with 2 juicy geo's that often kill both nearby bases on detonation, why wouldn't you all in right there most every time?

Absolutely love the width addition and having the back corners given an actual lane.

[chrome yew]

I dont think I saw 2 titan games on high os smolders yet

90% ended fast

[rare vector]

This last render looks absolutely stunning

[lavish rampart]

Yeah, personally I lost interest in smolders when I had 15 titans and 20 draongs and didnt even break past the enemy frontline.... Im more like a 4 afus kind of guy not 40

[rare vector]

How do u setup a glittato rotato?

[lavish rampart]

Seems like the rear hill might remove any and all value to push into canyon and use the water edge. You're already forced to come out of the water to cross deepr into the lane, but having it be forced into a choke and to go around the hill seems like it just turns off any potential reason to even try to slip by.

Love all the others, Island getting that hill mid lane to protect it will be a big help imo.

[rare vector]

isnt crossing just land? i know it's actually water, but crossable by anything

i dont think map has to somehow forcibly change to make the niche amphib play possible. there's possibility of amphib assault through front canyon into geos already

[lavish rampart]

The map currently has water down the map edge into a land bridge. There are deeper portions that you can tuck into to avoid alot of damage. Its not like it makes amphib super OP, but having the option to duck into water to avoid damage, and push another area with other units and force a choice was interesting

You still had to come out of the water to keep pushing to get any value and a com alone can counter most amphib trying to camp in the deeper water.

with the rock there now its just gunna be pointless to even try. I was able to get a few pelicans into the water on that edge and trim a lot of figs; I camped 3 salamanders in the deep water and then pushed towards island with tigers which was a really cool option to have, was interesting.

The rock that sits protecting island from canyon lane is a good addition imo as it stops you from getting so easily punished due to canyon breaking

the existing 1.0 setup of water into land bridge into water + that new island mountain gives rear canyon a secondary line of control anyway

adding another hill on map edge removes more than it adds imo

The new hills at canyon entry already put the advantage of amphib squarely on canyons side as well, they get access to a potential water runby right out of the choke instead of having to get past it first..

So there is already alot of added advantage without adding in that mid canyon map edge hill, which allows you to preserve some unique aspects of this version but still get the canyon vibe.

[rare vector]

but those rocks are pretty af

[lavish rampart]

facts

[wispy needle]

Pretty, also feels quite glittery with the pseudo canyon

[humble stirrup]

Only played a single round but I quite enjoyed the flatter terrain+water VS hilly canyon. It made me like the map alot more VS the other two.

I think it'd be a shame to add hills back to the "canyon" spot imo.

[lavish rampart]

I quietly agree tbh.... but if that's whats gunna happen Im at least hoping we can preserve some of the uniqueness.

I've had my fill of gauntlet gaming tbh lol

[cursive sierra]

merged version 1.1

[wanton grail]

damn this is such a good looking map

[cursive sierra]

all but ticks

[rare vector]

Rovers can cross?

[cursive sierra]

havent check but i think yes

[glacial wing]

Shouldn't this thread be renamed xD

[loud oasis]

all that rotato

[cursive sierra]

probably i should make it back 12*20

will think about it

[loud oasis]

If I squint hard enough, all that simmers is supreme in disguise

[lavish rampart]

Wouldn't blame you but I think the added lanes for corners is OP fun times, its causing some total mental break downs though. I'll just patiently wait for your take on PD

[hybrid fractal]

gotta remove the double geo, make it a single

carry spot shouldn't be right next to it also

let it for canyon so it's wasted on a low eco dude and not used to turbo boost starlight

it skips entire early t2 units

rezzers into ageo build is like playing speed metal but for energy only

[wispy needle]

Maybe 2nd geo could be placed in the plains behind front

Somewhere close to the x's

Or maybe just remove altogether dunno

[candid helm]

!rotationtype map;AllThatRotates

[cursive sierra]

but single boom is boring

[steel jay]

did you not see all the disgusting straights builds with rezzer into ageo?

not sure if there's enough trees on glitters but xD

[cursive sierra]

rezzers nerfed almost twice in 1.1

[steel jay]

yeah they are still the most broken unit in the game

it depends on how many trees there are tho

[cursive sierra]

well... i agree that rezzers into ageo could be op

but i dont wont to break double geo

[steel jay]

esp on a map that has considerably worse wind than straights

well you can let people play with it and have fun first xD

mb you could sparsen the trees a lot close to the geo

you can also put the ageo at max range such that cortex ageo still chains each other

so that it's super explosive and harder to cover 2 ageos vs air and other threats

and blowing up literally deletes everything in a big area

[cursive sierra]

i will look into it later

[hybrid fractal]

well then maybe go the Scylla way, where the geos are hard to get to and not close to bases so people can't use the same nanos as the one in base, currently it's just too convenient to do.

2.2 ageo was in a place that could get killed on t1 and far away from techer/carry, so it made it risky to take it to make t2 units.
If canyon died you lost the entire game if you were building ageo there to make starlight, right now it's just super ez

[rare vector]

Could also make trees slowreclaim

[cloud trench]

The 2 geos are really fun, but I don't think they make for a good map long term. The current geo spot is just absurd how much of a carry potential it has - it feels like people almost avoid it because of it. An 8v8 shouldn't be decided mostly as a 1v1 techer war on mid.

[astral basin]

that could make it so the perfect strat becomes to commie the geo by everyone gifting one rezzer to rainbow.🧌

what if one geo was reachable asap while the other is reachable only by water/amphib cons? that would enable them to still be one big kaboom but could delay the second geo to a later timing due to required air/amphib con

And having a dedicated air player build one of geos might encourage them to guard it a bit more attentively :-P

[lime apex]

yeah please keep the size format

it's the main selling point

[novel helm]

@cursive sierra Would u consider making the mexes area just a tiny bit smaller so area mex dont collide with proximity queue'd mexes? I have double mex every game with an ally or myself now lol

it would only need to be reduced ever so slightly

Also, many places we cant place T3 labs. I think u should fix that

[cursive sierra]

if i move it farther from start it will open spots for op cerby, while explosions wont do much damage to the bases.

my entire point was to make mini forge layout, where two greedybases can be blown up with bombers or some raid

[cursive sierra]

yea thats fair, i think i just forgot to change it.

[cursive sierra]

thats probably on the hill sides, i think i can lower entire mid section then

[cursive sierra]

already did in 1.1

[hybrid fractal]

i see then it all makes sense

[chrome yew]

I like the little boost u get from being able to place far away mexes

[cloud trench]

One problem for current south team double geo position is that it's geos barely have any ground north of them before the water becomes deep. I've rushed skuttle today and sent it through water pretty early and blew up the ageos. A similar situation is for a hover rush, since south again has way less space to build any walls, defenses, or place some ground units they might have in the area to try and stop the enemy hover attack.

[novel helm]

U can still do that. It just needs to be nerfed by 1 or 2 micro tile

[rugged elbow]

rip I shouldn't have mentioned that asymmetry I wanted to keep com walking ppl through the wata

[cursive sierra]

great, i worried that south is too strong and requires some terrain changes

good to know there are pros and cons for each side

and again as a "assymetry fetishist" i can say having slightly different sides makes games more diverse and harder to master since you need builds for each side even if you're playing the same position

its harder to balance from my side, but id love to keep assymetry

probably i need to balance a bit the classic glitters btw, iirc theres one side has like 8% more winrate..
something like giving one extra mex or light mex move to this side can do the job i guess without and meta change or somethjng

[lime apex]

uhm pay me no attention, but I feel like the previous version of simmers was slightly better (felt like gameplay on steroroids)

[cursive sierra]

yes but it was not glitters gameplay. games were way too fast.
afaik glitters enjoyers like to play to T3 each game

[lime apex]

aight aight; I just wanted to woof out a bit

[cursive sierra]

thats why i personally dont like to play glitters or isthmus.
im more rosetta/koom/dsd enjoyer

funny enough these three maps all not mine

[lime apex]

dark magic

[cursive sierra]

though rosetta and koom also often goes to t3

[chrome yew]

I think its a bit pointless to try and estimate average game lenght on the new maps because there is way too much chaos, safe and stable playstyle always needs time to evolve

because it needs to account for all the bad stuff that could happen to distrupt it

[lime apex]

I think Nikuksis is like an old/ ancient sentient of BAR; he prolly smells by default what will cause quicker games and what not

Grandpa Nik

[astral basin]

the ATS tidal noob trap is certainly working. But.. from my POV that's less a map issue than a UI issue. As a new player you automatically, at first, expect that tidal and wind numbers would be directly comparable as indicators for the respective efficiency. Maps where wind average < tidal < 2x wind average thus turn into noob traps.

[chrome yew]

i think that even with the new rocks geo spot is still risky

[novel helm]

its not a noob trap, its good

15 tidal make them 1-2% worse than Asolars scaling wise cost for E. But they pay off instantly, while asolars does not

They are way better than normal solars - but ofcourse wind and fusions still beat tidal

Of course, I wouldnt make that many. Max 10-15, imo - then wind and an E storage

[astral basin]

The more you learn 🙈

[candid helm]

What are the pre conditions to setup the gliterrato ? I tried !rotationtype map;[AllThatRotates] on preset "team" and the map "all that smolder" but i got this :
[01:35] Host[EU6][023] * Value "map;[AllThatRotates]" for global setting "rotationType" is not allowed in current preset or map

[heavy bison]

pretty sure it shouldn't have brackets, like !rotationtype map;popular16p

[candid helm]

op, i forgot to remove the brackets, noob mistake with copy paste from github

[novel helm]

Pog

This happens quite a lot in my games, probably cus im one of the few that is a area mex enjoyer. So whenever an ally uses normal mex placements, this happens

Or I just do it to myself if I shift between them with 2 different cons/com

If the area was just reduced by 1-2 micro tiles, area mexes (which are centered) wouldnt colide with side mexes, and it wouldnt happen

[cursive sierra]

too big mex radius

can fix it but need new version then

added new version 1.1.1 with fixed mexes - will be same as other glitters

[trail oak]

Hey what was your idea behind the two geos?

[rare vector]

big pop

[novel helm]

before u make it live theres 1 more change I think u should add

Its very hard to fit a t3 lab anywhere atm. I found myself having to look for a place for like 30 seconds

And I couldnt use my massive BP area in the middle

T3 lab in ur main base/corner just isnt realistic

Its too far back

for example, all of this is literally impossible to find a spot

here there is not a single spot for it

All blocked

Its a very good map, though. By far the best All That yet🌟 . Just a few minor things

I also think the 2 geos take away from the game. Maybe put 1 underwater?

Its way too strong

[chrome yew]

doesent being underwater make it way stronger?

than you have 1 really hard to kill ageo there every game powering shiva allins

[novel helm]

Does it? I dont know. It could still chain react with the main geo, and isnt underwater geos harder to get up? Dont u need a t2 water con?

[chrome yew]

less stuff can target it

I think it would depend on how deep it is

[novel helm]

I mean atm u just have 2 Ageos for free, which is a huge problem

The power spike is too much. Sure, its fun if u play it, but...

[chrome yew]

I think maybe meta will turn into giving air a geo most games

cuz it benefits the most from geo

and counters enemy geo the best

[novel helm]

Its 2 instant fusions at almost no BP cost and like half the price of a fusion

If 1 is under water, what are the ways u can upgrade it? (I genuenly dont know)

[chrome yew]

t2 aircon

[novel helm]

Only that? or boats too

[chrome yew]

u can make a boat but why

[novel helm]

dunno

I like it

At least you would require air to make a t2 con to upgrade it

[chrome yew]

its expensive to make the boat only to up 1 geo

[novel helm]

What about the t1 geo? U need a beaver or t1 aircon to make it?

[chrome yew]

yeah

bots cant unless they reach from shore

[novel helm]

So put 1 underwater for air, the tech/fronttech cant stack geos and steamroll players with commu/double Ageo as easily

Now we just need to decide where to put it. In range of cons/Con turrets or not

[meager osprey]

Idk I feel like the mex advantage vs geo equals both positions

There's no need to put one under water

[novel helm]

the mexes are the same for those positions

[meager osprey]

Pretty sure anti canyon still has more if you can even call it that

[novel helm]

Thats a different lane

The geos are for middle players usually, not canyon playeurs

Whatever lane doesnt feed tech the double Ageo gets steamrolled by the team that does - if executed okay ish

Thats why I think the double Ageo timing is too good

Putting it under water gate keeps it a bit, and gives air a reason to take it

[meager osprey]

Idk I always took mine otherwise I'd be in a bad spot without it

You can play the map in different styles Ive seen eco builds from that position aswell

[chrome yew]

i have yet to see a double t1 geo timing that seems very strong

u cant use that much e on anything so you end up converting it

which is just slow and bad

[novel helm]

Chevrolet has done it a couple times

starlights and overflowing to team

[chrome yew]

he just does well cuz hes so good

he makes the oplights at like 8-9 min

before I made fatboy from normal tech spot at 5:40

[novel helm]

Dunno. I just think double fusions at the cost of half a fusion and less bp, both in range of your con turrets (As north) and 1 in range (south) is too good of a timing for a lane (rainbow) that also has lots of mexes

[chrome yew]

like if you take a geo and than convert that energy its several minutes before it pays off

t1 geo is 500m

[novel helm]

its still 2x the efficiency of winds

[chrome yew]

yeah but overbuilding e is just bad in general

[novel helm]

So its free 500 metal once its up. And u use rezzbots to fund the E

[chrome yew]

just build as much e as you need and its the fastest

[novel helm]

well u just make less winds and solars/what not to compensate

its not good cus u get so much E, its good cus u get the E much cheaper

[chrome yew]

yeah but crux is...you need those winds/rezbots to build the geo in the first place

cuz it drains more e per second than t2 lab

[novel helm]

yeah rezbots. wind no

u can easily get up the first t1 geo with a few rezbots

[chrome yew]

so u just inevitably end up with too much e

[novel helm]

No such thing as too much E. Team just makes less inefficient E

They are the most cost effective E in the game by 2x.

[chrome yew]

its a problem for u as techer cuz u lose timing on units to have impact

[novel helm]

So in ur opi, who takes the 2 geos?

If not front techeur

[chrome yew]

i think 1 for frontliner to be able to sync up pawn spam with techer t2 units

and 2nd for air to keep u alive

cuz like if oyu wanna make 4 con turret pawn spam early on

u need a shitload of e, more than for something like t2 arty

so the person that is rich on metal (techer cuz he wastes nothing on frontlining and gets paid) makes t2 units

and person rich on energy makes the spam

I think this will hit the enemy with most potency

[cursive sierra]

i want to keep it

[cursive sierra]

this requires the new render. i will make the map more flat later, also 12x20 pending.

[novel helm]

noo

u turning it into 12x20?

[cursive sierra]

i'd recommend using F2 view with selected lab, this could help placing it. but i agree that it a map issue, will fix it later

[cursive sierra]

not yet, just thinking about it

[novel helm]

Yeah, its a very small issue. u dont need to change much. I think ppl like the elevations

Other than that I think the map is perfect, dont need to change more on it imo

[cursive sierra]

well theres few solutions to this, either making all mid secting lower and more flat, OR make elevations more steep (and short) like it is in the air spot. probably even bot-only passable to make bots more viable, currently they are outsiders i guess

[novel helm]

bots are very good atm because of the trees

I open them most games then try to switch into veh

[cursive sierra]

yeah bots opener, but not T2 bots

[novel helm]

t2 bots is a balance issue, not map issue

[cursive sierra]

bots/vehs can be balanced map side

[novel helm]

unless u turn it into a hilly map

[cursive sierra]

with terrain like this

[novel helm]

But then it wont be all that genre anymore, will it?

[cursive sierra]

as i said, i can make mid elevation steeper, so there will be clear ramp and flat areas

like it is currently at the air spot

this also should help with placing issue

but im tend to just make the overall mid a bit lower, its way easier to do for me and will keep the map flat

[novel helm]

Seems a very small adjustment is all thats needed to fit a t3 lab. its only like 4-10 small red tiles that blocks it

But I dont even know why it cant fit

the areas are almost COMPLETELY flat already

[novel helm]

I also think the new meta with this map that allows for 5 front players to play as front (The corner behind AC is no longer corner but a front player, playing as a front) allows for a 14x20 format.

I think its good giving 1 more player on each team a lane rather than just being support/boost t2 labs/watch the game

[chrome yew]

steeper ramps lead to more annoyance

and things popping in and out of vision, targeting issues etc

i'm also not in favour of narrowing it, love it as is

[novel helm]

as I said, dont touch it

Map is good

[half linden]

Omg Kellar want a wide map? Give it 3 months and anything but flats is big enough

[lavish rampart]

Gotta agree, by far my favorite version. The added walls were enough imo. A little variety in play lines across 3 sister maps is a really good thing imo.

[hallow temple]

Agreed, this different glitter flavors make me actually want to play glitters too and that's OP

[meager osprey]

@chrome yew is eco position from geos in swimmers actuallty viable seems like my shit gets bombed all the time very risky

[chrome yew]

I dont know there are mixed opinions on how to play that spot

[rugged elbow]

can we get purple crystal themed all that map(like factions/pools/prismatic) that is solar focused next?

[lavish rampart]

If Glitters carry lane is front anti canyon ( arguably rainbow but unless its the top OS lobby I feel like rainbow is more of a speed bump lane for most players) Smolders carry is rainbow lane with anti canyon front speed bumping (you could agrue others I guess??) Simmer carry lane Im not as sure on as I have not played top tier simmers yet but I feel like Rear anti-canyon has the most flexibility and plenty of eco to carry (it is at least where I have been trying to win from), with island lane speed bumping. What would you want to see as far advantageous positions/alteration in gameplay for another version?

[dusty plume]

what is the command so every after game it changes automatically to glitters/smolders/simmers?

[candid helm]

!rotationEndGame random
!rotationtype map;AllThatRotates

[novel helm]

Dunno if this is intended, but north spot, rainbow can easily reach both geos + lab with nanos, while south u can only reach 1

[trail oak]

i think it was. The map creator is a pervert like that 😛

[candid helm]

"asymmetry fetichism"

[cursive sierra]

how about this spot?

[misty karma]

When you look at the red player, he can reach the bot lab and the 2 geos with the 3 nanos

[novel helm]

Thats canyon

On the top rainbow can reach both

And canyon can also reach both spots on the top, while on bottom only canyon can

I dont think its really that relevant for canyon for 2 reasons. 1: Its a noob spot because it has less metal and its harder to carry. 2: A t2 lab there is less valuable than in rainbow because from rainbow you can reach your entire team faster.

I still think putting one of the geos underwater in the back would be good for map balance. The other geo should probably be in range of both canyon and rainbow with a nano on both sides.

[rugged elbow]

Op this my 2nd stream yap I see ending up here.

Ill summarize:

• the blue geos are closer to deep water making them more vulnerable

• you can only hit both geos with awkward Nanos that force you to walk sideways or even backwards

• those nanos won't be able to also hit a mex unlike on red side

-you also barely get any building space out of those nanos(unless you take geos as canyon which isn't ideal)

-if you want the nanos to be able to hit your lab you're going to have to walk a little more with your commander before placing the lab.

Normally it's not that big of a deal for 2 spots to be slightly different as long as there's something else on that side of the map balancing it out, but the geo spot is arguably the most important one & is key for the team to win and all of those small disadvantages are harsh on blue side.

The only thing I can think of that compensates for this is blue side island being a Lil harder to push into with a tighter choke and more ideal cliffs for rattle/gauntlet positions

[chrome yew]

there is an even worse issue

ships can pass across all the north ponds but cant pass south

https://i.imgur.com/IXAxSBN.jpeg

area where they cant pass

not even smaller boats

[glacial wing]

Pls just make it symmetrical

[meager osprey]

#wedontlikesymmetry

[novel helm]

Just put double canyon on one side and double ac on other

[rare vector]

I'm against more changes rn. First off, many gamers say this is their fav All That map, and secondly, this map plays different to what we played in glitt so it needs time to develop gameplay wise. Some say double geo is OP, but conversely, most frequent win is by killing those geos. Meta will develop and it might be different to what is now, it needs Time

Its not smart to change map to tailor it to previous map experience

[real rampart]

Aye, very wise words

[chrome yew]

I only ask for the channel to be dredged slightly with minimal harm to natural life

[astral basin]

The defensible chokepoint for island feels like a noob trap because it cedes so much metal spots that in terms of distance belongs to the island players if you fortify there asap.

It does, however, help if you lose your actual frontline and the map plays quite nicely as-is

[misty karma]

@cursive sierra Can you change the circle names on simmers?
There is a lot of confusion because of the current circle names at the start of the game.

[rare vector]

it should say Air/Tech for both air and tech roles

different team strategies require different position for air and tech and players are just confused, as someone has a strat in mind but others dont, and they are told to place here, while previous game they placed there

[meager osprey]

I dont think thats the issue the thing is people still experimenting with what spot is air and tech

[misty karma]

So far, in every game (high os) I saw, the current tech spot was actually the air spot.

[meager osprey]

Yeah I know

[rare vector]

yes because the geo adjacent player wants to benefit from 2 geos and his backliner needs to take the lane

but there is a strat where you push through mid. less used but used

[astral basin]

I saw "air"-spot frontline for a starlight-rushing geospot. That looked pretty strong in theory, we did beat it, though due to lackluster incisor/pounder-micro

[cursive sierra]

i can change

but need to decide how

[cursive sierra]

this probably

[novel helm]

this is actually the 2 ways to play it

This is how we play it in higher os lobbies

In lower os lobbies, front tech can be complicated, so thats why they do backline techeur. So up to you how you wanna do it. Like picture 1 or picture 2

Or keep it as it is

[rare vector]

Yes i agree with kellar

I think pic1 is best

[lavish rampart]

THe only issue with pic 1, is that its going to potentialy cause alot of drama in low tier lobbies, with people bickering over air and then just going air anyway "cause map spawn says" having 2 potential air spots will likely melt alot of peoples brains sadly

I also dont see a better alternative tbh so....

[rugged elbow]

2 air op anyway everyone knows

[cursive sierra]

i think higher OS lobbies wont have such problem as confusion by start pos text 😄

I can just make no text, or add like Player 1, Player 2, Player 3...etc

so team decide who is who in game

[misty karma]

Interesting in my opinion regardless of front tech or not, air should always be backline middle

[novel helm]

I disagree. Air benefits more from taking a geo than anyone else besides tech

[meager osprey]

I feel like the best would be techer in the back

Air is perfect in that spot however

Also it wont confuse noobs so much either

[novel helm]

geos in range of nanos is OP though for techeur. Especially on top spot

[chrome yew]

that is kinna moot given how cheap transports are

[astral basin]

is geofront the main eco in these lobbies or does the techer pivot into frontlining after dispersing the t2s, leaving the heavier scaling to their safer-placed backline-early-frontliner who is further away from these pesky ageos?

[novel helm]

Theres no eco in these games

everybody plays front, but one guy teches and makes t2 units and mixes in t2 in between

if u just open 8 t2 cons, ur team dies very fast to a techer who opens t2 units

[dusty plume]

Nah, lane with the geo shouldn't tech/front. Yes you have a geo but a dedicated backline player who can rush power units(Tzar, fatboys, quakers/mausers) is better. The lane with the geo then have enough lee way to get the two geo's to adv geo really easily and then starlight push from there or any kind of push.

[real rampart]

Am I the only one who thinks labeling the circles doesn't really make that much sense? Why throw a mix of players onto the game. Wouldn't it be cooler if the meta figured itself out?

I don't really understand why you have to figure everything out as the mapmaker and "throw it" onto others. Sure you might say it's a suggestion but I've had people ban me (in noob lobbies mind you) just because I felt like trying to play a different position that was in that bloody circle as if it was the only way you could play

[rare vector]

The bigger question here is Was you creative position also shit or a huge risk to the team? And an extention to this: could you, a new player, have judged it yourself that it was a bad spot?

[real rampart]

It was a position that I won games with a few times already. Just playing canyon but with less focus on front and more focus on walling up and rushing T2. I had like 40h at that point so it's not like I was new

And besides, why not let people figure things out even if they're new? Or just have someone else tell them what would make sense to do

[rare vector]

When it impacts time of 7 other teammates, its not only you anymore, but "us". Team wont let you learn sometimes and it is what it is. Very much dependant on who you play with. Also 40 hours is giganew in this game, fresh like morning dew

[real rampart]

Team won't let you learn
Join noob lobby

This is how you lose new players, you know?

It's amazing how good players are at optimizing the fun out of things

[night marsh]

It's amazing how individuals value their time/enjoyment as more important than 15 other people.

I'm meh about labeling roles as part of map creation, but I appreciate creators who make their intended spawn locations be obvious for players.

Communication and consent is an important part of team games.

If you feel like that makes you not want to play team games, then they might not be a good fit for you.

[real rampart]

Lol. And this is how you will end up with a game that noone except the biggest tryhards will play. Especially that I don't have a problem with accepting criticism from other players and I'm welcome to be a part of the team and work together

AND your advice is for me to not play the bloody game just because I critique an aspect of it that I think makes new players possibly feel unwelcome SPECIFICALLY in noob lobbies? I understand the map maker signalizing intent on how he feels the positions should be but here the map maker isn't sure what it should be then why force it onto the game instead of letting the meta develop on it's own?

I may have 40 hours in BAR but I've spent my life playing WC3, C&C, AoE, SC, TA, Stronghold and obviously Supreme Commander. I may not be an expert at this game but I sure know my way around RTSs as such

[night marsh]

If that's how you want to take me telling you to communicate and get consent. Sure

[regal harness]

They do this so noobs don’t spawn on 1 mex that’s actually your mex not their mex

[rugged elbow]

These circles are the "meta that figured itself out"

[misty karma]

especially frontline air players are OP

[trail oak]

all i know is that the average glitter lobby looks like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1s3Iekns9k

[real rampart]

You can place circles but why label them then?

[real rampart]

See but the thing is that here the map author doesn't have it figured out and that's why I think it's not necessary then

[rugged elbow]

if you mean simmers specifically sure

[sour loom]

i just notice the map being assymetrical where the blue is place

[chrome yew]

boats are becoming more and more common on simmers, which is cool but would be much cooler if they were also viable in south ponds

[heavy bison]

Spawn Indicators are a relatively new thing, they didn't exist when I started BAR. They were added because the roles/positions are socially enforced regardless. And having the roles visually displayed for new players was superior to having them get yelled at, or take a position and not know what is expected of them. This is doubly difficult in cross language situations. At higher levels most players have it turned off, and everything is much more flexible. But for players just learning, it's nice to have some rails to learn on.

The starting locations are updated with the meta. ATG used to have teaching corners, which now play front instead.

[novel helm]

Or in neither 😈

[real rampart]

I see, that's cool then

[candid helm]

Fern and mushroom are not reclaimed with area reclaim by lazarus, is this normal ?

[sour loom]

any news on the balance of the ponds?

[novel helm]

Atm the top spawn is better in every way -

1: Your defensive position in regards to geo is better for 2 reasons - Boats such as destroyers cant get through, and skuttles cant swim their way there.
2: Both geos are in nano turret range from shore, which is actually quit a big deal and simplifies double geo gameplay.
3: All the corresponding mexes are quite a bit closer to your spawn than enemy side on both sides. Compare top canyon 3.2 vs bottom canyon 3.2 vs the middle line (left side is top)

[meager osprey]

this is the dream

[novel helm]

wtf is this, 40x20 glitturs?

[meager osprey]

idk lol @tranquil spruce sent it

[tranquil spruce]

yh

do !map glitters

[molten hamlet]

Yo @cursive sierra Nikuksis, thank you for giving us GLITTERS EXTENDED!!!!!

FAVOURITE MAP SO FAR, SO MUch FUN!!!!!!

[cursive sierra]

LOL

its event map tho, uploaded for predownload mostly

Im thinking on making this map for real, will need to fix few things and planning on making it east vs west and redistribute metal this way

[hazy stream]

we played it wrong enough that you flipped the intended directions

[misty karma]

A giant simmers could also be interesting.

[cursive sierra]

yeah will see after event

[mighty laurel]

Nik you have been pumping out maps XD

[cursive sierra]

not as much as i did at best days

[main sparrow]

if you ever feel like doing an isthmus spin off again i would like to suggest a swamp version with overgrown parts in the water that debuff boat speed but not hovers

kind of like tar but in the water

[rare vector]

Amazing idea

[hybrid fractal]

i join the glitter lobby and they playing a lane map version of it now
amazing

the change made in the last 3 weeks might save bar fr fr

[rare vector]

nikuksis goated

[rare vector]

wide glitters unironically goated btw

no reason to commie hard on this map

should be chrono's dream map

[meager osprey]

Lmao

Actually I am waiting for the day we get 5.0 spawn mexes.

[burnt skiff]

What do yal use to design the maps?

Could be cool to try it as a side project

[rare vector]

World machine software. It generates a map via a heightmap you make (you can make height map in any software). But the main issue is that world machine software licence costs 100€, and free use is limited to very small resolution which isnt usable for BAR mapping

[burnt skiff]

Sad

[fierce turret]

Theres another way

the dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural

[rare vector]

this .... elusive way .... intrigues me

[main sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/robbie-rotten-stefan-karl-lazy-town-pirate-parrot-gif-12378184

[rare vector]

ah yes, the balkan way of getting ANY software. thought it's something more elusive tbh xd

[cursive sierra]

I see Simmers is not get played anymore

any major problems with it?

ok wait, i checked now, its basically equal smolders/simmers currently. Probably i looked wrong last time i check.

[long frost]

It has a slower gain in popularity. Tend to see noob legion lobbies playing it more. Smolders and Glitters are more popular overall it seems.

[cursive sierra]

im okay with that

[rare vector]

i'm super sad glitters enjoyers can't get out of glitters mindset. at first, glitters had rotation of all 3 maps, but later on, glitters enjoyers figured out that other 2 maps don't play like glitters but somewhere between rotato maps and glitters, so they abandoned other 2. those of us who like rotato maps too would love to see GLITTATO ROTATO back, but it's only possible in medium-low lobbies nowdays

i think both maps are great, regardless

[long frost]

Its also a slight issue since lobbies cant setup a easy rotate between the 4 glitter maps automatically. (And calling it all that rotato confuses some people)

[chrome yew]

no the op glitter doodz legit leave if you change to the new glitter maps xD

[novel helm]

We told u the reasons its unplayable in high os lobbies

Top team has heaps of adventages and no disadventages vs bottom in all lnaes

[chrome yew]

i honestly dont think its that

the only issue is that its diffirent

and maybe the 2 geos make the games a bit too unstable

[wanton grail]

I haven't actually played simmers, but those two geos close together on a cramped map just scream for a coop t2 arm botlab rush while utilizing geos, and the team who loses them would probably be at a huge disadvantage

[cursive sierra]

make prude 🙂

or protect it better. Thats the whole point, to make greed punishable

[novel helm]

If the 2 geos were more spaced out (and maybe one under water in the back so u cant just rush 2 ageos up easily, and the map unbalances (currently top can make and upg both geos with con turrets and hit his lab + mainbase with the same turrets, bottom team cant) and fix some other ridiculous imbalances (top team has all mexes way closer including their 3.2 than bottom team, especially canyon side) then it would be more playable in op lobbies.

Also, bottom ageo is reachable from water with skuttles, top isnt. This is massive too.

Atm it only works well in low rooms cus of things like that.

[spark hill]

we should make more All That maps

🙂

[chrome yew]

i dont see a reason atm because glitters crowd only plays on the old one and rotato crowd still skips smolder and simmer for being too similar to glitters

so now nobody is playing them really it seem like

[spark hill]

I'm sure if we get to like 8 of them people will start playing again

[long frost]

there is still a consistent group that plays smolders it is slowly declining though

I think that is mainly down to the inability to help plateau/rainbow as easily if you are on the wrong side of the cliff

[wooden apex]

Simmers and smolders are excellent variations to glitters and are popular. Awesome job by the map author.

[candid helm]

💪 Nikuk maps on podium

[wise ivy]

I aint play smoldering sinners enough but the canyon entrances for glitters should be the same size

[chrome yew]

canyon is very op lane on both new maps

[wanton grail]

Isn't Supreme a map from Nikuksis as well?

[candid helm]

Oh, supreme is also nikuk map, gg, nikuk monopolized most game played on the game. ( but supreme is tuto map with meme winds, it don't count for a real map)

[novel helm]

Is it bar if windmills isnt the most OP eco building in the game?

[heavy bison]

Not on Moon maps

[plush copper]

Not all spawns are equal, several spawns have obnoxious mountains you have to build around that arent present on both sides. Tech air mex arent equally spaced between teams ect

[lost hedge]

title says smolders, picture is of glitters 🤔 ?

honestly fucking hate smolders. hill is way too annoying to displace compared to canyon.

simmers > glitters > > > > > >> smolders imo

for glit and smolders it'd be nice to put something into the map that made it more obvious where the corner players are supposed to go. really common noobtrap

[lavish rampart]

A big circle that says FRONT inside it maybe? 😅

[spark hill]

https://tenor.com/view/reading-sign-cant-stop-me-no-one-can-stop-me-gif-13921932

[lost hedge]

not obvious enough evidently, and it also doesnt specify which part of the front they are supposed to go to at all

[lavish rampart]

On some maps there is a little circle and an arrow showing where to go 0---> Do you think that would help for that location, or do you think it needs to be more than that.

[lost hedge]

i think that'd help for sure. might look weird on glitters/smolders though since the arrow would have to be pretty long

[wise ivy]

The arrow for corner will need to be multi branch cause they flex for entire map but initially 1 arrow.branch. but honestly why are maps asymm so dumb

[lavish rampart]

Tbh, I feel like we could get away with a short --> arrow pointing forward to just kinda hammer in that you need to go forward not just afk in corner. The idea is to just minimize the noobs sitting there in max zoom racing the tech player to t2.

[misty karma]

I think the noobs who need an arrow do not flex anyways. You can already be happy if they go to the front.

[steep viper]

Hear me out, is there any way you could add some elevation to the rainbow lane? I feel like even half the canyon's current elevation or scrap canyon evbeblation and giving the rainbow lane that increase in defensive possibilities would balance the map more and make for more interesting games

Hell even turn the rocks around rainbow in to mini volcanoes to avoid the t3 arty stacking on top

I am gonna see if I can get these edits done and get back to you 😄

[steep viper]

I think this actually works better....

I call it All that Burns and I will be testing it soon! 😄

[steep viper]

It works awesome! 😄

[meager osprey]

give me

[weary rain]

inverted 40 water

[wanton grail]

canyon gonna die to gauntlet on top within minutes

[misty karma]

I think it could be good if canyon were just flat, so it doesn't just die to artillery. Instead of hills having just holes with lava, could be very interesting.

[steep viper]

Canyon fills with Lava every 3 minutes for 6 minutes

[steep viper]

Is mine but how I share u a preset?

[steep viper]

There is no Canyon position!

Players should go front anti canyon and get a 3 minute window to attempt an attack if they so choose

otherwise the single back canyon player is able to scale and provide units to rainbow

[steep viper]

If canyon was flat it wouldn't be a canyon 😉

[steep viper]

Hey cookie dealer! I would like to share with you the debug for the lava version I came up with ❤️

I worked pretty hard on it, albeit not as hard as map making seems to be but there is so much potential here! I'm doing everything I can to try and get contributor xD
I will DM you 🙂

[meager osprey]

OP

[spark hill]

All That Flickers (is not Flame)

[steep viper]

All that Lava...that Rises xD

[astral basin]

I prefer my inverted smolders with actual water in the canyons. So each team gets a somewhat safe sea.

[wanton grail]

@cursive sierra Hey, sorry to bother you, but would it be feasible for you to increase the deformativness of the sand on Glitters? Currently when a nuke hits the sand floor there's almost no crater at all. I was told (see #1421816786344738888 message ) that it's possible to setup how much some parts of a map deform, so it would be really cool if the sandy parts deformed a bit more :D

[marsh peak]

They were having issues of people putting sharpshooters in fatboy craters and the sharpshooters would be near impossible to hit (bannable offense btw)

[cursive sierra]

yea i set the hardness of my maps a bit higher since i don't like how it looks most of times 😄
don't hit my map with nukes please!

especially having different hardness in the same place could result in unpassable terrain due to crater difference
assuming its not obvious that its deformed could lead in frustating behavior on maps

[wanton grail]

yeah i completely get the impassability problem, but it's a bit lame that the core nuke leaves the sandy terrain almost flat :(

[cursive sierra]

tbh i'm not very fan of terraforming in game, at its current state looks a bit too "cheap"

[fierce turret]

Is it possible to have different hardnesses for different types of ground ?

Like to make some areas very malleable and some very hard

but like, somewhat seamlessly

[wanton grail]

as far as I know it should be possible (from what others told me)

[weary rain]

you are able to make reclaim only wreck and stuff right? i wonder if there is a way to make interraction like those sc2 formable debris field blocker

i know using test command if you wreck a unit its only reclaimable

[cursive sierra]

what? wrecks are already reclaimable

[misty karma]

@cursive sierra

Destroy able rocks like in sc2 would be cool to be able to attack rocks on the side that then fall down and block a path (and the rocks blocking the path have HP and therefore can be destroyed).

Even things like a huge "reclaim" or something that is blocking a path, but can be attacked or reclaimed, could be really cool. So you can't use the path in early game but in middle/late game when you have enough attackpower or reclaim power.

I don't know if something like that is possible in BAR.

[wanton grail]

Imo you could make some rocks with huge BP requirement

[limber sonnet]

I guess, reclaim only as in, no resurrection

[limber sonnet]

You can make them reclaim only, I learned the hard way when i tried to test resurrection xD

[cursive sierra]

only if they are features on maps
could be non-rezzable