#Auto Unit Replace

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

waxen hearth
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Causes selected units to be automatically replaced when destroyed.

For example a spotter plane could be given a patrol route and then an auto replace command given (Ctrl-U). If the spotter is destroyed then a build order for a new spotter will be added to the appropriate factory.

When the replacement unit leaves the factory it will be reinstated with its original orders as at the time Ctrl-U was pressed.

Works with multiple units and orders allowing new tactics to be devised such as automatically replaced spy-bots or fighter screens.

I've been using this for playing against the AI for about a year and have been meaning to publish it for a while.

https://gist.github.com/simg/0721002725682bd263f2de2a458e9e5c

Gist
Beyond All Reason - Unit Auto Replacer widget

Beyond All Reason - Unit Auto Replacer widget. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

crimson sparrow
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Oooooo me like this widget.

rancid raven
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Seems a lot like quotas...
Great idea though!

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Ofc this would replace a singe unit instead of any unit of the same type

crimson sparrow
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This is more specialized I feel

rancid aurora
# rancid raven Seems a lot like quotas... Great idea though!

I guess it could be somewhat mashed together:

  • make a quota of scouts
  • you want to always scout specific places, so you mark few scouts with Ctrl-U
  • quota makes the marked ones first (and they get their orders back) and then produces the rest as usual

that'd be pretty cool but kinda complicated

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anyways, that's a great widget emozstonks

open mural
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How is this not the type of automation that is not allowed?

This provides a significant advantage vs. a player not using it.

crimson sparrow
open mural
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i understand but this is a real time strategy game where part of the challenge is having to actually do things in the game like replace units rather than relying on a script that you wrote ahead of time or bought or received from a friend

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My understanding is automating some unit actions is not allowed but just hasn't been hardcoded into the game. I don't know if automated unit replacement falls under that though

rancid aurora
frail kelp
# open mural My understanding is automating some unit actions is not allowed but just hasn't ...

Some settings in the base game already makes it easier/gives advantage to whoever uses them, widgets are similar to a setting especially when widgets can eventually end up merging with the base game, I get your point that an external help which may not be available to everyone is being used by one team and not the other however there is no guarantee who uses what in any lobby (unless an anti-cheat catches them for example or disable local widgets or specific commands in widgets etc)

Furthermore there is no other way to showcase good features that may end up in the base game

open mural
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It's literally doing actions for you that players without the widget don't get

open mural
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in any event unless I understand things wrong I thought they're banning automation widgets anyway

frail kelp
# open mural TBH I don't know if I want to play a game where my opponent could be running a c...

Sure, by that logic you wouldn't want to play any multiplayer game since people can make cheats for those and you never know which lobby/game session will be infested with these people; if I'm being honest, widgets are a safe haven, if they completely ban modding/automation/widgets you will see some absurd horrendous cheats appearing, so as long as widgets are moderated and maintained, people wouldn't start making crazy cheats. It is similar to wanting something you can't have as opposed to having everything permitted already just choosing, tho banning widgets or at least making sure people have an even playing field is nice too, one way they can achieve it is by displaying the widgets used by any player in the lobby which I know is theorized but still need implementation (this method worked in payday 2)

Or introducing a server side check to disable local widgets (+ anti cheat since online game after all)

All in good time 👍🏻

open mural
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It's cheating dude

#1113852208098844746 message

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You can call it whatever you want if the computer is clicking buttons for you, that's cheating in RTS

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No one is advocating banning all widgets

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Automation is the problem

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and unless rules changed it's not really allowed

frail kelp
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Can we establish that "cheating" by definition is unfair advantage? So if both included parties have that automation would it still be cheating?

open mural
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That's not the case here.

You can make or buy a custom widget only you have. Seriously what are you talking about?

frail kelp
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Just establishing basics

open mural
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So yes you can make custom cheats and use them as widgets

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That's part of the reason why automation widgets are a problem

The other part is that we want to play RTS, not script vs script

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You understand there's literally widgets that micro units for you right?

frail kelp
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Yeah I get that, and some of them are built in game too; easiest one I can point is default factory guard

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So it really depends on how players want to play, no?

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Recent change of low/high trajectory removes some micro so that the game does it for you, as mentioned before this is similar to widgets the only difference being the availability of it to all players

open mural
frail kelp
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So in the end and to summarize

  • cheating can occur in any multiplayer game
  • less micro counts as cheating or not depending on availability to players (local widget or a setting)
  • widgets which are available in this officially managed server, for the game, in the category named widgets, are mostly to showcase cool features that can be added to the game for everyone; or downloaded and used as is. Depending on the second option it is cheating as it gives unfair advantage not accessed easily to others (point 2)

Edit: was typing when you sent the last message srry;

it's a game feature not a widget

So funnily enough it STARTED as a widget.... so what do you propose? Ban automation from widgets? Even tho they get enrolled into the game cuz it does count as a feature.

In fact some "features" are so hidden in the settings that you need to manually enable them from the widget menu (f11) and they may or may not provide you with aid whether significant or not is a different matter entirely.

open mural
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I suggest a different method for testing automation than widgets

Unless I'm wrong automation widgets are a rule break - I could be wrong there - it seems clear they intend to patch the game to not allow them

rancid raven
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With factory quotas, you can say “I want to have 6 sumos on the battlefield at all times”

open mural
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That is not what this automation widget does

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as I understand it this automation processes that a unit has died and responds by taking the action of making a unit for you

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If that's a feature in the base game let me know

rancid aurora
open mural
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I know that

That is not the functionality that this widget has

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it's literally called auto unit replace

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if that's not an automation widget what is?

rancid aurora
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Yes, this goes 1 step ahead because it replaces and reissues commands

open mural
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yeah it plays the game for you

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by taking actions in response to what's happening on your behalf

rancid aurora
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There are a lot of automation widgets

open mural
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they're cheating

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A lot of people like to cheat it’s not news to me

rancid aurora
# open mural they're cheating

It's not cheating if it's not against CoC, no? If you use widget you have to link it here so other can also use it and maybe work will be done to make it impossible to use. This issue was discussed 100 times, so not gonna get into it again.

For example
https://discord.com/channels/549281623154229250/1299513647302705276
https://discord.com/channels/549281623154229250/1282399185500377270

I'm short, widgets will be somehow controlled in the future, widget won't be banned because they evolve into in-game features (I guess most of the QoL features which BAR is praised for, was a widget at some point)

open mural
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Read what I linked. Devs apparently stated automation is / going to be not allowed

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Regardless of the current CoC imo it’s cheating in rts to use scripts to execute actions. Equivalent to aim bot in fps

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Can you not just insert your own widget? Does it actually have to get approved to use it?

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Also if this game is going to be 50% about meta game of which scripts to use to micro your units and build for you - that’s bad

frail kelp
# open mural I suggest a different method for testing automation than widgets Unless I'm wro...

Ok lemme put it in more simpler terms;
The thing that BREAKS the rules is unfair advantage, not the creation of a widget in itself (hence the category inside the official server and the use of it in game to be merged as a feature)

The creation of a widget is simply showcasing so arguing whether or not it is cheating HERE makes no difference or sense, as anyone and I mean anyone can make their own cheats and not provide it here; at least widgets with automation are propositions to enhance the experience, therefore let's look at it this way PROVIDING/CREATING a widget isn't cheating while using it intentionally to gain an unfair advantage and making you go from OS 1 to 60 (exaggeration) IS cheating

Last I heard studying how to make a nuke is not illegal while making it at home.... kinda is (at least in my knowledge in my country dunno bout others 🤷)

By extension to end this discussion wether or not people use the widget from the widget channels is one thing different from actually creating it, we accomplish nothing by arguing in this thread.

TL;DR: people cheat in online games.

Widget category won't solve this problem and creating them isn't directly the biggest possible issue (even if it significantly helps, the intention of cheating still exists in the player; when there's a will there's a way)

open mural
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Whatever I'm just going to wait until they hardcode in the ban on automation hacks. Until then I won't play against that in 1v1 at least and hopefully small teams if I can avoid it. I don't even want to use them myself I don't want any part of it - not fun

crimson sparrow
frail kelp
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Was bout to say lul

crimson sparrow
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lol

waxen hearth
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just coming back to this after a while.

I certainly didn't intend for this to be cheat. it's worth mentioning that I think the default game setting is to disallow user widgets, so if you're playing online PvP games you don't have to worry about widgets like this being in play.

all that said, I'm personally not really interested in playing PvP BAR. I'm more interested in the Strategy aspect of the game and would happily automate away a lot if not all of the micro-management. in fact, a lot of the fun is in developing widgets to create more intelligent behaviours.

I'd be very happy to play a version of BAR where essentially my widgets fight your widgets. some of those widgets might be open source, but some would be private to give a competitive advantage.

this isn't for everyone of course, but that's OK.

open mural
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Yeah if it's for singleplayer who cares. I always make people turn off their client side cheats before we play anyway now

rancid raven
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private widgets aren’t allowed

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I also don’t think that this is a cheat since it’s so close to quotas, which are in the base game.

open mural
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Yeah it is a cheat 100%

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This is why I make gamers “turn off cheats “ before we game

rancid raven
open mural
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Oh I misread what you said

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Commanding bldgs or units automated to me that's cheating - it goes into automation widget territory

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which as I understand it isn't allowed

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it gives you more options than the other gamers. that's not very fair