#Wind turbines should not be suggested above 5/6

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

obsidian plank
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Maybe I'm too much of a noob, but even on maps with an average of 14, wind turbines are not a very good choice:

  1. Even with a lot of them you will still run out of energy when the wind is 2 or so.
  2. You need energy storage (which needs more energy to build).
  3. Solar collectors don't need energy to build
  4. Vulnerable: they explode in a chain reaction

The game suggested building them so I did. It didn't work out. Had a lot of them and still ran out of energy really quick and then the enemy threw a single bomb on them and everything blew up

What do you guys think?

elfin kindle
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disagree, arm wind beats solars in efficiency at around 5 wind speed, 6 for cor

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you compensate for wind drops by building energy storages

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in terms of metal spent per energy generated efficiency you start beating afus around 15 wind speed

fallen dome
# elfin kindle in terms of metal spent per energy generated efficiency you start beating afus a...

Less than that for Cortex winds. Don't know the numbers for Armada, but 13.5 average wind is equivalent to Cortex afusions, 10.8 to match regular fusions. You could add a little to that to account for storage. In either case they're much more efficient than solars on most maps, but yes, they have some risk and downsides to their use in their variability and fragility. That's a decision you have to make as a player which you should go for, but generally if the map has decent wind, you'll tend to come out ahead building winds.

Also, you can avoid windmills chain reacting by building them in a less dense fashion (like building them in a 2 wide row/column and they'll be safer).

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Not sure if it will catch on, but I adjusted my starting build on Isthmus in the pond position (high wind map) to build solars first and then build winds after and eat the solars when metal is low, as I think it may be more effective.

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And for reference, Cortex solars are equivalent to wind of about 6.3, so average wind doesn't have to be that high to beat solars by cost efficiency.

hoary musk
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wind takes way more bp

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and the variability is a high cost

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you need at least 8 wind to make wind

fallen dome
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Although if the suggestion is to build winds at 6 average, I'd actually go with solars in that case, as I think it needs to be slightly above 6 to beat solars.

elfin kindle
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its normal to build wind on maps with 5-10 speed tho

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some ppl pick solar some wind

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u see alot of both on koom

elfin kindle
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u only need 100 banked e to make wind

fallen dome
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175 e cost on cortex windmills, which with a commander will drain around 30e/sec and the commander itself produces most of that, so you only need one. That's how I used to start my build on pond spot, build one windmill for myself and then build windmills to boost other people and that's generally enough unless the wind tanks super low

hoary musk
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even tho metal wise it may be cheaper, you will get e gains slower

elfin kindle
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yeah its around 30sec on average for a turbine to pay off

hoary musk
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not only that, solar has applications in it's short term gain

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no i mean the actual build power cost

elfin kindle
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yes its less bp efficient than solar

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but you need to consider you will have to reclaim the solar

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which is more bp that you need to add up

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you will keep the wind so you dont need to apply bp to it twice

hoary musk
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you don't always reclaim solar

elfin kindle
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if its a good wind map you really wanna reclaim the soalr imo

hoary musk
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the benefit of reclaiming solar is that it gives you all the metal back

elfin kindle
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the sooner the better

hoary musk
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reclaiming is an option, building the solar itself doesn't take double the bp

elfin kindle
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I dont know of any builds that will not metal stall after a 2 solar open

hoary musk
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on an 8 wind map try doing a start with solar and wind, the solar one will be way faster

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yeah it depends on what metal you have

elfin kindle
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solar star is always a faster start but the m stall hits u too hard and u cant dodge it

hoary musk
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if wind sucks there's no point to reclaim solar to make wind

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takes far too much bp

elfin kindle
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but if wind sucks ur playing a solar map xD

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but if you mean if wind is low on an otherwise good wind map than I agree solar is the way to open

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but I would still replace it with wind

hoary musk
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usually you suck them when you need metal for units or a lab

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i mean if wind is ~8

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if you have the bp to reclaim solar and make such borderline crappy winds you should just make less bp
and build e with the saved metal

fallen dome
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wind probably needs to be 12+ to beat solars on raw scaling of E production

elfin kindle
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what...no

hoary musk
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11.5 ish

fallen dome
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(not factoring in metal cost)

hoary musk
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but solars still have an application on higher wind map because they don't cost any e

elfin kindle
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solars on high wind maps are a mere correction tool

hoary musk
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so they are ahead in short term for stalls and very important unit like laz

fallen dome
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yeah, when I'm E stalling and have some spare metal I just spam some solars

elfin kindle
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u will by no means scale e faster with solars tho

fallen dome
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(do this on the geo spot to get the geo up faster, as you tend to run out of e getting those up)

elfin kindle
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i build winds even on geo

fallen dome
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I do too, but I build solars as well

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and eat them

elfin kindle
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anyway on supreme nothing beats rezbots

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in terms of efficiency, only reason you have to build the geo is because you run out of reclaim

fallen dome
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until you run out of trees, at which point you eat those too

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or use them up front

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yeah, more rezbots works well there, but the more people do that the faster all those trees go

hybrid halo
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i dont think winds are being suggested are they? there is only a message telling you not to use wind but no message telling you not to use solars

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its mostly maps like isthmus with 19 max wind where people tell you to use winds

elfin kindle
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yeah u see the occasional person try to make winds on rosetta

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its a really bad idea there, but speed is 0-10

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which is alot worse than 5-10

fallen dome
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He's talking about the tip message that shows on the loading screen

hybrid halo
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nah i mean the nice lady telling you not to build winds below a certain value

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she doeant tell you not to build solars on windmaps, so its never really in your face suggested that you should make winds

fallen dome
river sun
hoary musk
obsidian plank
fiery rune
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Metal is harder to get and more valuable than energy. The m cost of solar is huge for only +20e. You can sometimes need a lot of wind turbines, more than new players expect, but they're still more efficient than solar, and in some cases, more efficient than any other form of energy production (except geos).

Though, I do agree it's a weird recommendation because people under build wind and/or see it drop so low that their energy production tanks, or don't know when to add 1 or 2 solar on instead. So I do agree, it's a bit nebulous for the new player.

hollow swift
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It gets especially tricky when new players play anything besides 8v8 where you end up with way more metal and energy is your limiting factor early on.

On bigger maps small team/1v1 even if you want to be scaling wind ideally for metal efficiency early/mid game solar can be the right choice to prevent stall.

Maybe the tip would be best if updated to say wind is more metal efficient instead of just more efficient as it's still very good information but "more efficient" with no qualifier implies it's a no brainer decision anytime wind is above that level.