#Make bombers leave debris

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

jade bronze
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As many of you know air is a popular option to attack economy, one criticism is that they are lower risk because they don't leave wreck unlike t2 or t3 attacks.

t1 bombers, and also seaplane/t2 bombers are extremely strong units on larger maps, let them remain strong but drop some reclaim to compensate.
This also adds a bit of skill in self d. T2 fighters and chainsaw will kill so quickly so often they won't leave debris, but t1 figs and lighter aa will.

ember basalt
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Great idea IMO. I participate in lots of balance threads and a LOT of them devolve into "players will just go air instead", which isnt even wrong. Going air when things stabilize is smart, exactly because how efficient bombing runs are.

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Like, does any non-air player know that Hailstorm, the scary t2 cortex strategic bomber, costs 310 metal? Yeah air is wild. Wrecks would compensate a bit

clear fractal
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From a technical perpective, why don't they?

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This smells like something that would produce silly bugs and bad visuals from flat terrein debits sticking out at horizontal angles on slopes or spawning inside of structures or other wrecks.

olive meadow
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Idk just a personal opinion I dont really mind having or not having extra metal scraps

fleet wind
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aircraft in FAF left wrecks which was nice

odd wing
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Not a bad idea in principle, a start point can be testing a reasonable percentage of metal for debris, actually a full wreckage has about 80% of the original units, if my memory does not make me a joke.
I suggest to start an eventually test on a wreckage that have something like 50% of the metal of the original units.
I give my personal +1 to this idea, and i add reason:
It's not the first game that I watch where a dead bomber ruins on a nanofield and destroys all the BP; how "nothing" can do damage?

jade bronze
clear merlin
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it might make performance even worse for massive air spam

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but i think air needs some kind of performance increase anyway, either prevent massive air swarms from being viable or add more dense units to the airlabs that you need to make in the endgame

jade bronze
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mean usually you don't make more than a few hundred bombers even in 1h long game

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we already have debris fields of 100's of t1 units

clear merlin
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yeah but usually lots of planes dying causes lag for everyone, if the game then has to spawn debris the lagg would be more intense

ember basalt
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No debris for planes plz, too much clutter

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Only bombeurs

pulsar lichen
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in faf you had these enormous air battles and it would be gg whoever got the wrecks since it was always like 30k in air superiority fighter wrecks. Really bad snowballing imo

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but if the overkill is enough to destroy most of the wrecks maybe not so bad

ember basalt
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If its just bombers, this issue is almost completely mitigated

jade bronze
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for consistency you could make gunships also leave debris but that would require non-seaplane gunships to be buffed to be a lot better than they are now imo (at least by 8v8 standards)

odd wing
clear fractal
unborn goblet
coarse heart
# clear fractal This smells like something that would produce silly bugs and bad visuals from fl...

flat terrain
I believe this can be disabled
spawning inside of structures
I'd need to see what we're working with but i reckon we could probably limit it to only spawning a wreck if it collides with ground
horizontal angles on slopes
If we can get landing position we can get ground normal and probably artificially slide it down or not spawn wrecks

that checked for open space
If I recall correctly, a: it didn't account for large structures as i used getting all units instead of checking the ground
algorithm to move the structures
The positions were fixed and it would skip to the next one if unavailable

hidden iris
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I think it's fine that they don't leave metal. They just have (and I think they are) to be balanced accordingly cost-wise. If you think bombers/planes are too strong, then increase their costs.

jade bronze
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debris makes you think a bit about throwing them away and gives the t1 defender something in reward. if bombers (and maybe guships) drop wreck but are stronger it may give an incentive for using air pad to repair

clear fractal
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In a narrow vote, the Game Design Team decided against having aircraft leave behind wrecks when they crash. It's a deliberate design that certain units don't leave behind wrecks when they die (like pyro) allowing for raids leaving behind no benefit for the enemy.

ember basalt
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Argument makes sense, but in light of other lab raids leaving wrecks, kind of strange. Not sure WHY exactly this applies to planes only

jade bronze
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certain raiders not leaving wreck makes sense

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but it has to be recognized that leaving rezzable wrecks/debris is a big weakness to overcome

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if air doesn't leave anything while being the most mobile, hovers/raiders/t3 need to be strong to overcome that risk/downside

wooden mountain
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I voted no to aircraft wrecks because:

  • The wrecks would end up in awkward places like cliffs and your rezbots would chase them there when area reclaiming.
  • I dislike mechanics where 1 player in an 8 player team does 1 big risky move that decides the fate of the entire team in a coinflip manner. Eg. comdrops are like this. If a bombing run either completely destroys the enemy backline or ends up donating 1000 metal to the enemy techer, then bombing runs also become this kind of a coinflip move where 1 player takes a huge risk for the entire team and the actions of the rest of the players in that team matter much less as a result.
pulsar lichen
jade bronze
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fighter wrecks would be too messy

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in t2 most bombers get oblitterated too fast to leave wreck, this is more for t1 killing

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honestly it's not a problem if airplanes leave no wreck if raiders like turtle/hover/termite are improved
and t3 attackers too

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imo there are many other all in attacks that involve wrecks (doom drop, proxy t2 lab, commited navy pushes, most land raiders, etc.)

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raiding / bombing is coinflip if you have no scouting info on either side

hidden iris
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bombers leaving wrecks but fighters not would be totally random

sinful mural
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personally this is asking for trouble
wrecks going slightly out of bounds then being teleported back into bounds does not look good

ember basalt
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What if wrecks, landing on nonwalkable terrain, just dont spawn?

clear fractal
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Reason c