Tick rebalance- change laser to a low powered emp

[proud flare]

Ticks have too much speed, damage (when factoring in flanking bonus and the sheer difficulty of cleaning all of them up) and don't leave wrecks. Something must be done.

If the engine can support scrap being combined then a giant tick ball could leave something worth killing them. The sheer amount of overkill from killing ticks means nothing is left for a defender to salvage.

They have great vision too, which fits being a scout unit- but makes them a bit too effective when paired with their unparalleled speed.

[rain lava]

So should Ticks be nerfed? Is there a consensus somewhere? Needs to be some clarity for an action to be taken

[proud flare]

They're a bit of a catch-all. Spam them for offencive vision, trickle them in for run-bys and force a disproportionate response to keep them from tickling mexs to death, ball them up to overrun defences that lack AOE to kill them fast enough before they rush past. When micro'd they can contest many t2 and t3 units so they work extremely well on defence as well.

They just do too much

[rain lava]

Hm ye u can compare them to the rascal/rovers

[proud flare]

My thought is that if they did a small amount of emp damage instead they'd still retain all their usefulness as a scout, but require additional units to actually murder what they're attacking. If the emp damage is scaled low enough then it wouldn't be too oppressive I'd hope.

[rain lava]

Well first Id say should establish what makes them stand out so much, to make clear why nerf should happen

[proud flare]

The barrier of entry is one thing, they're so incredibly cheap that you can get them out faster than anything else. And because they're so fast they can be on top of cons and mexs faster than defences can be deployed- or just skitter off elsewhere. With infinite micro and a couple ticks you could singlehandidly end most games. That potential is only possible because of their sheer speed, but their cost is a factor in that.

They have slightly better dps per cost than pawns, which have many other tradeoffs vs them. The only gating factor for ticks is their non-existent health pool, which isn't always relevant when they're spammed en masse.

[potent cove]

People always talk about how op ticks are yet cortex is the top pick in 1v1.

[proud flare]

They're not mutually exclusive. Ticks versatility is often expressed in XvX not necessarily in 1v1.

I have to confess a personal dislike for units like ticks because it forces high APM to use or counter them and my old hands aren't what they used to be

[polar wedge]

i dont think they are really an issue earlygame but in the period of 8v8 when t2 units start coming online they kinnda are

[proud flare]

Because of their speed they can be anywhere you want them on the map, which is more relevant on larger maps

[polar wedge]

Los is huge and ticks give by far the best most reliable los while also dealing a ton of dmg on their own AND friendly fire dmg

its a bit much in combination

[proud flare]

The additional friendly fire damage is huge

If anything maybe their speed is the biggest sin

[polar wedge]

its the fact they are bots and highly microable

they fit through any gap that most units cant really cleanly

they are like a starcraft unit

in a world of clunky bar units

if it was just speed rovers and rascals would also own

[proud flare]

I want an exterminator unit added that specializes in killing ticks, spiders and crawlers

But that's just my personal yearning

[polar wedge]

I would look at ways to make tick pathing a little worse or some kind of acceleration nerf but keep their stats for the sake of 1v1

[proud flare]

Sensible, but I would rather see ticks become less versatile on a whole, I'm not sure that would be enough

[polar wedge]

maybe also los reduction since I think that is their biggest +

[proud flare]

it definitely combos with their speed- with high los a skilled gameur can avoid threats before it touches their precious ticks

[polar wedge]

it would also make barbai feel less bullshit xD

[potent cove]

Note that balance team want to implement accurate lasers. And once that's implemented there will be likely no need to nerf ticks more.

[proud flare]

My brother, I wish to beat ticks into the dirt where they belong

[polar wedge]

laser weapons are never gonna be ideal vs ticks anyway because you want splash so its not gonna change that much

[proud flare]

Sing it loud

It'll certainly have an effect but it won't stop the tick from doing much more than it has any right to

[sly ice]

As jauggy said, #1263560364747133090 message the balance team wants to do accurate lasers first. Until that happens we won't know if the tick is going to need to be rebalanced.

I vaguely remember the idea being floated internally about converting the weapon into EMP for the tick in a balanced discussion. Only the non-balanced team member who proposed it liked it. I think the general sentiment will be that we don't want to drastically alter the purpose and functionality of the tick.

That being said, although this repurposing of a tick is kind of a tangentially balance related suggestion, we won't know if it'll be needed until accurate lasers is implemented. Also, the last tick balancing thread was closed less than a month ago.

All tick balancing threads will be closed until february, or until after accurately lasers are a thing. Whichever happens first.

[proud flare]

Alas

Thanks for the update