All That Glitters TOURNAMENT

[bronze mountain]

Gauging interest for an ATG tournament - please add a comment if you have ideas or feedback, or leave an emote if this is something you'd be interested in.

Options include: 8v8, 6v6, 5v5, 3v3

5v5 seems the obvious choice to entice a large number of teams while balancing the type of gameplay ATG is known for.. on the other hand 8v8 is méthode traditionnelle.

Timing would be based on registration/interest but a late-December or January tournament would make sense.

Thoughts?

[restive granite]

I think such a tournament would be wildly polarized if it's not played with the no coop setting.

Perhaps best if it incorporates an exception for the T2 constructor sharing so that it best mimicks the average glitter experience

edit: nevermind I live in an echo chamber, lets go coop

[forest fulcrum]

If a teammate doesn't have at least one afus at the end of the game, your team automatically loses

[bronze mountain]

Does that thought sit in the camp of: things that would make the tournament more popular, or things that would make the tournament more fun at the highest level (or both) ?

Because it seems like you're suggesting that would have broader appeal (which it very well may), but I'm not sure that most people are familiar with the setting

[restive granite]

I find myself in the minority that enjoy extreme coop abuse, I think it would sit in both camp despite my personal feelings.

[bronze mountain]

I'm also in favor of a single elimination tournament to keep things spicy

[sour basalt]

Make it late January so my unban times perfectly

[sleek dirge]

I would cum back to play it regularly (if it was not one time thing)

• would be interesting to see something similar and "regular" for strait as well tho

5vs5/ 6vs6 sounds best
No need for any "other" rules.

---

Could act as a "quality" lobby - which many want to see

[hollow ore]

If it was with no co op setting I would be very interested personally to participate. We could also judge which style of tournament is more fun for general public (players and viewers).

[bronze mountain]

there hasn't been a no-coop tournament yet, this could be a good test (if popular opinion wants it)

[red nest]

no-coop = what exactly? and Is it enforced by in-game settings or just disqualificatiom if noticed?

[bronze mountain]

its a setting i think it means u can't share units and you can't share resources. somehow t2 cons would be an exception to that through coding.

dunno what happens if u overflow resources though, i suppose it's just lost

[red nest]

Hmm, I don't think I'm a fan of that. Just making communism disqualifiable would be enough

[bronze mountain]

that's an extremely grey area

if your neigbor dies does that mean u can't rebuild their mexes for them?

what about metal and energy sliders?

what if you are building porc and your con dies, but your teammate has a con nearby

is your neigbor allowed to build solars in your base for you to reclaim?

if you make figs can you give them to your air player?

[red nest]

Communism = one player controls two bases and the second one microes units the first player is making

[bronze mountain]

I see. so you don't want unit sharing?

who decides whose mexes are whose?

[red nest]

uhh, what? I didn't say unit sharing in general. I meant exactly what I said, where two players play in a way where one controls two bases and scales, has all the mexes of both people, and the second guy is only Microing units on the frontline

[bronze mountain]

that's not an 'absolute' thing though, it's subjective

so extremely difficult to put clear and unbiased rules around

if i give 1 mex to my neigbor and he gives me 5 thugs have we broken the rules?

[red nest]

yes, it would be up to the mods/orgs to decide that.

You probably know the APE clan, and their play style is exactly what I mean.

[bronze mountain]

you are talking to him

[red nest]

that's not even remotely the same thing

[crisp depot]

Isn’t there already a anti coop setting that taxes sharing

[red nest]

you're HELO clan. APEs are Cheetah, ILikeAsians, Jagomu, Splendidish

[bronze mountain]

im the tournament organizer

[red nest]

nice

[bronze mountain]

so this discussion is something i'm interested in lol

[red nest]

I'll just find a replay of the gameplay I'm describing, that will be easier

[bronze mountain]

I know what having zero mexes and 12 hounds looks like

but how is that different from 2 mexes and 10 thugs?

what i'm really trying to get out of this conversation is whether a clear line exists between what is and isn't communism, beyond simply saying any form of unit or resource sharing is communism

[crisp depot]

Communism part of the game tho

[bronze mountain]

another example - suppose one player on your team makes a t3 gantry and you are overflowing metal. is it communism to give him metal for units?

should that be allowed?

[red nest]

yes I know, omega was one big commie party and it was fun to watch. g0af wants to ban resource and unit sharing alltogether. That's why I said just banning communism ala Apes would be better.

[red nest]

that's not communism

according to me at least. Once again, communism = ape gameplay

[bronze mountain]

I don't have an opinion yet on whether communism should be allowed or not and i don't want my opinion to be a deciding factor. i'd rather let popular opinion decide

[crisp depot]

If you want many teams to play in the tourney you should just let people communism

[sleek dirge]

No additional rules; Keep communism on.

[pulsar solstice]

I agree

[sleek dirge]

Just test the "Glitter" regular tournament format

we first need to know if ppl are interested

[pulsar solstice]

Smile and APE are interested for sure

We just need some streamers to spread the voice

[sleek dirge]

I am more like talking to those 500-1000 other dogs addicted to glitters

[pulsar solstice]

Yes ik

Thats why i said we need streamers

[restive granite]

roger I'll pull up my stream later and broadcast it to my 5 viewers

[pulsar solstice]

Op kuchy

[crisp depot]

Op my only viewer my mom

When do u stream @restive granite So I can watch op gameplay

[restive granite]

no good gameplay to watch until my mouse is delivered I've been playing without mouse wheel for a month now

but usually in the morning if I ever do, like maybe in 30m

[crisp depot]

What kinda mouse u get

Logitech gpro super light 2 the only right answer

[crisp depot]

For sure I’ll be ur most supportive watcher

[fringe blade]

if i may suggest disabling tremor

[devout timber]

if communism disabled somehow tremor not as op anymore

[restive granite]

VGN VXE Dragonfly R1 pro

sorry for the wrong answer

also, tremor must be enabled or this will be a dull game

[woeful pebble]

Me too

However I think communism and coop is most disruptive when one team has access to players who are familiar playing with that style. But if everyone is playing this way (like we see in the omega) then it’s not “coop” it’s just teamwork

But I also am trying not to feel personally attacked by “glitters tournament no communism”

[woeful pebble]

🥹

Allowing is also a lot easier than trying to police or code any workaround

Regardless of drama about communism I would like to throw my vote in the brainstorm for a league style format with smaller team size. 8 players can lower the quality of individual teams, make them harder to field, and significantly more difficult to coordinate.

And having everyone available all day on a particular day is also very challenging

League lets teams coordinate on their own time and replays can always be cast later

[woeful pebble]

if anyone is interested in geeking out of tournament specifics id be happy to brainstorm

[pulsar solstice]

10% bonus for me

[woeful pebble]

lots of options, I've organized and run tournaments for many different games in the past

[small canopy]

To make this tournament good we would need a captains draft mode where the 8 (orso) best players who signup are team captains of their team, and they would pick players in a snake draft orso.

[woeful pebble]

Well presumably you’re going to be working together enough to compete that you can pick start locations yeah?

I’ve enjoyed 5v5 every time I’ve seen it but 6v6 seems like another logical option (as both corners are the obvious spots to get absorbed by neighbors)

5v5 has the bonus of being overlap with omega

[small canopy]

Just add energy cost per shot

50-100 or smh

[woeful pebble]

This would motivate faster testing of a candidate tremor Nerf before the tournament if we felt that a Nerf was necessary for participation and viewership

[red nest]

I say just ban tremor for enemy team, problem solved

[woeful pebble]

If the first iteration of the tournament goes through without a Nerf, though, this might generate the competitive data that’s necessary to motivate a Nerf in the future. If the problem is as bad as people perceive, then we should see tremors dominating the tournament in an obvious way.

[small canopy]

If we nerf it we might also see it not being used

[woeful pebble]

Correct

[jaunty nymph]

I feel like it's mostly about early game because extreme sharing early on has the most impact (basically doubling the eco/apm of one guy to rush something). Later on it doesn't matter that much

[hallow egret]

My 0.02c is that communism disabled in tourneys would be a shame.

I can see how communism in random lobby games can be annoying if one team is coordinated and doing it VS a team with no coordination since it gives a huge benefit that is hard to counter.

In tournaments though where all teams should be communicating (and scouting) it allows for a ton more options both in the open and throughout the game and allows some really cool plays to be put together.

[jaunty nymph]

good point tbh

[bronze mountain]

You shouldn't feel atacked at all 😃 ! I think it's mostly a view informed by the Omega tournament

And part of the reason for my thoughts that 5v5 is a far easier format was InDaClub's experience organizing the 8v8 sumpreme strait tournament - he told me that he would never organize an 8v8 tournament again. Scheduling was just too difficult

[woeful pebble]

Yeah logistically more than 5 is reasonably a nightmare and worth sacrificing “realism”

[hybrid flax]

Do it before choice gets unbanned or he’ll win

[hallow egret]

+1 on the 5 man teams too. Even with two subs + 5 main players our team ended up not being able to sign up/play in the most recent omega because people got busy/dropped. 8 man teams would make it even more difficult.

[sour basalt]

Real

[hybrid flax]

im jk u r noob

[sour basalt]

January come pubs I keel u

[hybrid flax]

pubs aren’t real

[agile bough]

5v5 or 6v6 its a totally different meta, aka not our arrakis, wich i think ita what we are looking for

So i would prefer a lower number of team, but better quality of games/more similar to our usual experience

We could discuss nerfing comunism, banning lrpc

And nerfing tremors, like giving them a 30E cost per shot

[bronze mountain]

Maybe start practicing 5v5 arrakis just in case, because 8v8 is close to impossible to organize

they didn't even play one semifinal of the supreme strait 8v8 tourament because of timezone scheduling issues

[sour basalt]

8v8 won't be a thing that's just timezone nightmare unless ur the German team

I remember 8v8 strait tourney I was in glass's team and the time scheduling was so fucking unreal we just disbanded bcz it was 24/7 someone at work or sleep

Also if u do 8v8s with 2 subs that's just 10 people in 1 team how u gonna get good amount of competition with that

It's just gonna be 3 playable teams and everyone else just pleb bystanders

Maybe the idea is that ATG has higher playerbase so despite 8v8 u get more number of teams but I don't see that happening I barely see 1 ATG team of 10 players happening

[woeful pebble]

Apes could probably field two teams for 5v5

Cheetah frozt Asian jag Mino splendid afer ljon klapa and near out of retirement

[bronze mountain]

@sleek dirge can u send me a good picture that would work as a thumbnail for what will be the tournament discord?

Something Arrakis related ideally

[woeful pebble]

We actually haven’t talked about rag yet

Arrakis has had rag off for some time now

And people seem to be enjoying it myself included

The question is does rag off contribute to

1. more players wanting to play
2. more competitive games for players
3. better viewing for spectators

[warm wyvern]

you still need rag or else games are even more unplayable
around 3x rag price and it delays it by 5-8 mins when it's rushed

[pulsar solstice]

Rag in 5vs5?

[warm wyvern]

8v8 is better for glitters i think

[pulsar solstice]

For sure but i don't think we Have enough players for 8vs8

Also u need to have at least 2 subs per team

10 players per team is too much

[warm wyvern]

i don't mind if tourney is 2 or 4 teams

[hybrid flax]

last time we had 8v8 didn't one of the finals teams forfeit

[warm wyvern]

yea to play a troll 6v6 but with prize

[sour basalt]

8 PPL not feasible u have to think abt scrims n shit nobody will be able to get 8 PPL

5v5 itself is hard to Wrangle the cunts into practicing

[bronze mountain]

there were too many abandoned matches in the strait tourney - the final was forfit, there were a couple of late stage elimination matches that were forfit too like semis and quarters

[peak quarry]

maybe ypu could stretch it out over a long period and give teams like a month to finish their matches

more of a glitters legue than tourney I guess

have teams organize matches themselves and submit the replays

[fair cradle]

No

[sour basalt]

Last 8v8 tourney was stretched out to 2 months everybody kept forgetting it existed and every team had to communicate with each other for 2 months on when the fuck the next game is

Club prolly has PTSD from that tourney he shudnt be arranging another 10 man team tourney

It's just not possible unless u have such a big player pool that half the teams not being able to show up doesn't matter

[warm wyvern]

rip 5v5 glitters is boring, not even worth watching 😦

[sour basalt]

Well maybe it was managing issue on last tourney bcz the scheduling was ever-shifting

[hybrid flax]

yeah i think 8v8 would be most fun but prob wont work out

[woeful pebble]

https://images.app.goo.gl/gQZKzkfPxtGMo5pg7

[bronze mountain]

Do you think we could get 8 actual 8v8 teams?

I think it’s possible

[pulsar solstice]

Mmm

Not sure

[sleek dirge]

pls don't go crazy

5vs5-6vs6 is a great start for something uncertain

[obsidian rock]

No

[bronze mountain]

Just checking

Everyone who has posted seems to agree though that 8v8 would be nice but is not rly feasible

What about 5v5 versus 6v6?

[warm wyvern]

we just had 5v5 on glitters tourney

it's just pointless

BO5 8v8 versus 2 teams would be far better to watch

[bronze mountain]

That might indeed be the more interesting watch but one of the goals of the tournament is to encourage new players to try a tournament for the first time

And that feels more achievable with smaller teams

[viscid ermine]

atg is pretty cool, but I have to agree with Raikoh, the pace of ATG in 5v5 was rather slow, the map just has way too many mexes and both early game expanding & t2 mex upgrades makes the it a snoozefest & the single geo timing usually determines who wins.

i felt multiple times, that you can already clearly see who's going to win by having advantage but game takes extra 10-15 minutes to close out, and that was with rather experienced players.

if for players themselves might be fine, but I think 8v8 on ATG would be better watch than 5v5.

[lapis lion]

U know that the 3 extra players of 8v8 would anyway just be battery players with almost 95% certainty.

[bronze mountain]

Yeah for the winning team, probably, but I'm more interested in the format that encourages the most # of teams to enter as well as the most number of people who haven't played tournaments before

[lapis lion]

Im just stating that more players may not really result in more playing. Also whether 8v8 will field more overall team and players compared to a lower format might be also questionable due to organisation hurdles or simply the fact that most people might not have a group of 8 friends.

Then again I do want to point out that in my previous game war selection I was able with the help of the developers and some friends ofc to organize a 8v8 tournament with 24 playing teams including their substitutes. The prize was no actual money but barely ingame items. The game itself has a comparable playerbase to bar. Also featured 8v8 as main mode just like bar. So i believe if the organizers really put the effort in and use a bit more than basic advertisement then this tourney could be the biggest bar ever seen in terms of players.

[sleek dirge]

and old dogs to return tbh

[warm wyvern]

Yea would be coop meta non sense anyways you are right

[fair cradle]

no

[bronze mountain]

Thank you dujs, very cool

[pulsar solstice]

Lol

[fair cradle]

😄

Idk why cant you guys do tournaments on other maps that arent as played mush thats just it

[pulsar solstice]

Mmm

Do ur own tournament

[bronze mountain]

Well that’s not a bad question at all - there has been a Supreme strait tournament, there have been several Nation Wars tournaments and other small team format tournaments like the most recent Omega tournament that use a wide range of maps including from the 8v8 map pool, there has been at least one 2v2 tournament, there have been many many 1v1 tournaments - I actually think Glitters stands out, for all of its popularity there has never been a Glitters tournament

The original idea behind this tournament was an observation that the past tournaments have not appealed enough to the regular players of probably the most popular map in the game - what better reason to host a tournament than the specific reason that it should appeal to that pretty large group of playeurs?

It also has the potential to be especially exciting because of the existing Clans that play glitters, who I’m very hopeful will participate - rivalries add a compelling new angle to the whole format

[woeful pebble]

https://images.app.goo.gl/gQZKzkfPxtGMo5pg7

Just gonna keep posting this

[woeful pebble]

There is merit in mention this as a show match between best teams might be viable from a viewership perspective and result in higher quality games but I don’t think it’s competing for space. A show match and a tournament are separate things

[hallow egret]

Maybe this would be best in a nation wars type format where the initial games are played whenever the teams want within a week with replays casted on YouTube after? And then only the finals are a set time.

Would make it easier to field teams probably.

[fair cradle]

Idk if I wanna watch a tourney it should not be a map where everyone knows what to do

I'd rather want to play/watch something different we have like 300 maps

[hallow egret]

This thread is to specifically discuss a glitters tourney though? And I doubt the gameplay will be anything like normal 8v8 glitters you see at least for the higher level matches.

[red nest]

you already have every other tourney for that

[bronze mountain]

The supreme strait tournament showed that nobody who played supreme strait regularly actually had any idea what to do

The teams of people who spammed that map were eliminated early

[red nest]

I honestly wonder why

Were it "noob" teams or op teams?

[bronze mountain]

both and they lost to co op

[fair cradle]

good no one wants to see same strats used in the map everyone knows how to play thats why though

atleast istimus offers more strats due to its sheer size

[red nest]

you're literally here just to shittalk ATG lol

[fair cradle]

well isn't this point of what a suggestion is there are sides some will like others disagree

[red nest]

no need for that. Keep this thread clean for the tourney discussions pls

[fair cradle]

No need for what? I am here to say my reasons why this is bad due to everyone already knowing how glitters will end

[red nest]

this is a thread about how an ATG tourney could be organized, and you come here saying that ATG is bad and boring and that Straits would be better....

[fair cradle]

he brought up straits and I commented on why there were tournies on them

[fair cradle]

use your eyes my guy

[red nest]

well, all I'm saying is that it's kinda useless to do so because the people here want the tourney 😄 they won't change their minds and make it a straits tourney out of nowhere

[fair cradle]

sure they can be responsible for putting funds in then I watch some tournies myself but wouldn't really watch glitters one. And it's really unprofesinial trying to silence me for bringing my feedback. I've seen this happen alot recently I am allowed to bring up my ideas I dont give a shit about originizing a thread it always goes off topic

simply like this: how is this related to the topic? #1308725208567250995 message

another thing to keep in mind: #1308725208567250995 message

[red nest]

#1308725208567250995 message
#1308725208567250995 message

These two messages are NOT constructive feedback and are just shittalking glitters. I merely told you that it's useless to do that here because most participants are ATG mains and we think the same about Straits as you do about ATG. You're just derailing the thread needlessly.

[fair cradle]

It is though it states what the issues with glitters is. it only goes one way canyon losing

[red nest]

#1308725208567250995 message

Not a glitters only tourney and it's 5v5 format. Irrelevant.

[fair cradle]

ok why did you not bring it up to him? instead you unleach your silly moderating acts for no reason on someone giving feedback on this topic

[red nest]

Once again, this is NOT the thread to discuss how bad you think ATG is. And you clearly haven't played high level ATG if you think it only ends with canyon losing.

[fair cradle]

I've stated my points I dont got time for you today sorry

[red nest]

maybe cause I'm not active 24/7 and don't read everything?

I'm not even moderating you, I'm merely saying that talking shit about glitters is useless in this thread. If you want a straits tourney you can organize another one.

[red nest]

Have a nice day, sorry we disagree

[bronze mountain]

Dujs your points; that you think a supreme strait tournament would be interesting because it's a large map, and that you think that glitters has a pre-determined outcome around canyon losing which makes it uninteresting for tournaments are both noted.

[hybrid flax]

iirc tournament meta for strait is pretty well defined already

ignore sea and all in mid t2 and have one person com walk in mid for reclaim and its like what all the top teams did

[bronze mountain]

yeah, 4-6 coms start on the front 3 spots and one in the backline

[ember crag]

not true, we got third

[bronze mountain]

I stand corrected mb

[woeful pebble]

You say that like there is only one viable strategy on glitters. Maybe top players will surprise You with their creativity

[woeful pebble]

Why would you come in here actively trying to shit on something someone else is excited about. Nothing that is being discussed here is “instead” of any anything else. Let people enjoy things and if you don’t like them you don’t have to participate. No one is forcing you to watch or play

On topic though, I would be actively happy if games were played asynchronously based on team availability to be casted later. I’m a dad and anything that helps me stay flexible to balance my family life makes me more likely to join as a prospective player

[woeful pebble]

Replying to this specifically . Last on topic post

I’m doing some research in some other esports to look for inspiration as to how other systems have tackled previous problems. I was looking into LOL because that’s a scene I’m not familiar with found https://lolesports.com/en-SG/news/league-of-legends-championship-pacific-format-update

Notably the season is broken down into regional competition and then qualifying fewer teams for international event. This seems like a potential solution to the time zone coordination problem, to intentionally group teams by time zones to focus on playing games between teams that are easier to coordinate and go down to a smaller number when scheduling gets harder

Perhaps identifying a few availability windows (like 0000-0800, 0800-1600, 1600-2400 GMT) and letting teams apply to each of these sub leagues

A US league, Europe league, and Asia league, and anyone can join any as long as they can guarantee availability in that window

Like I don’t want to disqualify the us team that has one person from the Philippines (or visa versa) as long as they can coordinate

[bronze mountain]

There’s likely to be round robin weekends stretching from Friday evening Europe time till Sunday US time, with pre-set kickoff times for matches i.e. 8am PT. A designated team leader from each team will agree on when their games are played within the window of pre-set kickoff times for that weekend

[woeful pebble]

I mean that’s one implementation sure, “no judgement in brainstorming” I always say

I do volunteer to help coordinate so long as it doesn’t provide a conflict of interest and I can still play if needed

[bronze mountain]

Well any good ideas people come up with will definitely be implemented

And yes 🙌🏻 I could use a co coordinator

[bronze mountain]

There is a fair bit of tournament organization happening behind the scenes at the moment, but the latest update is that team sign-ups are expected to commence in the next 3 weeks and will remain open for 4 weeks before the tournament begins.

On Current trajectory we’re looking at a mid-January tournament

There will be plenty of updates to come - including a tournament discord containing all the specifics around rules and relevant info

[bronze mountain]

Tournament Registration

We're opening registration today for the 6v6 All That Glitters Tournament ('ATG Tournament').

You are encouraged to form teams of 8 made up of 6 players and 2 substitutes. Substitutes are not mandatory however you will require 6 players available for every game to avoid a disqualification loss.

Registrations are open until <t:1735707660:f>, i.e. closing <t:1735707660:R>.

Please use the Google form to register teams. For any issues, contact either myself or @woeful pebble via DM on Discord.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdhqxQ5GmVmZEqDZm2d7yBQPsuKVkl07mnwGScluMh8IUEAtA/viewform

[bronze mountain]

Update: Glitters tournament has been set for Feb 2025. We will likely extend the signup window until till the end of January, although you are free to register sooner.

[fringe blade]

How about set up a new registration form for individuals who don't have 7 friends and shuffle them to make a team?

[bronze mountain]

Ya good idea. There’s a looking for team / looking for player channel on the official tournament discord that will help with this at first and we can add that too

The discord hasn’t been opened yet - soon ᵀᴹ

[wintry kite]

@minor sundial these gigachads organized their own tournament. It's evolved beyond the confines of suggestions. Can it get some official recognition?

[minor sundial]

It's already recognised 🙂

[wintry kite]

Would you like to setup chat elsewhere before I lock this up for not being a suggestion no more?

[bronze mountain]

You can go ahead and lock, thank you for the heads up