#Glitters discussion

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

brisk fossil
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50 os plajer, died in 10 mins in a 1v1 in canyon vs another 50 os player

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Had half the metal half the army

compact oasis
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yes eventually you will, but that's the point - the position is supposed to be weaker. But the original problem you listed was that noobs die too quickly in t1. Unless canyon fucks up, it's possible to hold at least until t2/3

brisk fossil
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No

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Thats not what i was saying at all

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I was saying that the original problem is that canyon is usually left out as other frontline spots are prefered in general for high os players, leaving the map in an unbalance od high vs weak spot on both sides.

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Adding 1 or 2 mexes fixes this while kewping anti canyon slightly superior overall imo

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Noobs will be noobs and die in any spot vs good players.

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U cant fix that, never will

dawn radish
compact oasis
brisk fossil
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U still dont get it

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Atm id say the balance is 80% noobs vs good players. If u buff canyon it will still not be 50/50 but it will be closer as more players will prefer canyon - but not over half most likely

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I dont get why u guys are so against this. Its a positive change in all ways

dawn radish
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1 Mex is good

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2 idk

brisk fossil
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Something in between. 2.4 metal maybe

dawn radish
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Ye

brisk fossil
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#makecanyongreatagain

zinc mango
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Lol, you talk of [smile]SpookieDookie ? Well, he play only air on ATG and is the second players with the more games played aha

frozen raven
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I only got a user_id in data, no name. The os matches lmao

exotic flare
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No, there is another.... file, you can cross reference player names from another parquet file, I forgot what it's called but you can ask around.

frozen raven
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I will have infinite power

stone swallow
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Everyone focusing on canyon when the lane beside it is the most crucial one as when that frontline stabilized it can help canyon which rarely ever happens as the back canyon is always gonna be poo poo too

crisp turtle
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#1298281706947608667 message

exotic flare
chrome vigil
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makes it harder to lose but also makes it harder to win

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winning fast>losing slow

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I dont think its good

stone swallow
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say that become the meta the mirror is gonna be the anti canyon spot and the lane next to it would have to deal 4v2 @exotic flare

chrome vigil
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you are putting more power on the canyon side of the map where terrain is not as favourable to breakouts

chrome vigil
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also a side note: according to logic of some posts here support classes in moba games cant really get the same kills as ad carry, so the only reasonable course of action is to buff them?

vernal gazelle
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thats a good analogy

chrome vigil
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ppl are ok with air if all they do is prevent u getting bombed, but arent ok with canyon that only has to stay alive for as long as possible

chrome vigil
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different definitions of what constitutes success are kinnda cool imo, lots of campaign missions rely on having you stay alive vs impossible odds

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I think its cool to have that diversity on glitters

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I would define a successful canyon as one that stayed alive longer than enemy canyon

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in this case his contribution to winning the game is about as valuable as that of the other teammates

vernal gazelle
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that's actually the right way to thing about winning / losing in general - it's not whether you're beating your lane opponent or not, it's about whether you are more or less progressed than the person in your mirror position

arctic finch
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I'm not glitters expert but from my experience canyon feels better the higher the min of the lobby is because there ends up being more teamplay the higher the lobby gets. You're more likely to get a trans from your air player to help shuttle units/abuse cliffs, you're more likely to get help if needed, you'll likely get a t2 con pretty early to really make use of your geo and get t2 porc up, there's a good chance you get a couple early t2 units gifted to help hold porc and scale.

It feels rougher the more mixed the lobby as you might not get transports/decent t2 timing even if you ask and it gets much more difficult to hold once anti-canyon gets those things and you don't.

The position I think is balanced for balanced teams that know what they're doing but I think it invokes alot of negative feelings from players who are 20 OS below the lobby average and end up getting stuck there because they're lowest OS and don't know how to utilize the tools at their disposal + are less likely to even get the tools when they ask for them.

frozen raven
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Make another widget like the starting position widget that tells you how to abuse certain positions and what you need for that

exotic flare
forest dagger
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ciscanyon lol. Canyon-binary. Im sorry

wild pebble
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Canyon is definitely very hard to push out of or to help other lanes. If canyon isn't dying, it's the lane next to it because canyon is all locked up or invested in porc and anti-canyon can easily spill over to gangbang knowing canyon can't very well retaliate.

Not dying isn't a win condition. Canyon usually dependant on other side of the map to actually win the game. Since the win condition heavily favors anti-canyon side, noobs will keep getting stuffed in the canyon.

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Whether or not that's a bad thing, idk. It's just how the map plays.

I still think some of the antisymmetry makes the map unbalanced, tho.

exotic flare
compact oasis
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that's a completely wrong sum up

wild pebble
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and feelsbadman when you're the noob dying in canyon before 10 minutes

solemn girder
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Think for a moment how comfy yall would be with poops on ATG mid

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Probably sweat fest

exotic flare
compact oasis
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first of all, canyon rarely gets gangbanged in the t1 phase, oftentimes it's rainbow lane fighting 1v2 of 1v3. Secondly canyon is not expected to lose, it's expected to hold, and holding it 1v1 is very much possible and doable. Getting gangbanged is a gameplay move, and as such it shouldn't be considered a "balance issue" - your teammates should help you if you're getting gangbanged because their opponent is on you.

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I'll say it again, complaining that noobs lose vs 35+ guys is completely worthless because what other outcome would you expect. Yes I know you're complaining that it's always the best guy vs the worst guy, but That's something that would happen regardless of how good canyon is - a noob vs a 35+os will lose regardless of lane.

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just don't play in lobbies with no max rating. I know that's restrictive, but there's more maxrating lobbies than minrating lobbies. And if you're in an all welcome lobby, you don't have a right to complain

exotic flare
# compact oasis first of all, canyon rarely gets gangbanged in the t1 phase, oftentimes it's rai...

All logically correct, but the big issue is that front canyon is the most common new player experience, so is giving new players an unduly harsh experience of the game, possibly leading to many quitting.

Also logically correct about the max rating lobbies, and this would be fine with a large player base, but with only so many players in the lobby, you have to set max MR to 25 or so, and even a 25OS player (90th percentile) or MR16 (50th percentile) is going to stomp a noob who starts with half as much metal as them.

Solution might be to continue with the current map for pros/rotato, and create a fork with more forgiving terrain. IIRC, there was just such a map that was played a while back? I saw it in a youtube video but don't recall the details.

crisp turtle
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its literally not humanly possible to get better terrain than canyon

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its so insanely unpushable if u see some good playeur mirror matchup there it wont be moving and canyon will be slightly winning if u just tunnel vision n see that lane

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if ur getting stomped in canyon then the truth is ur gonna get stomped in any position any map any game mode

solemn girder
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Gigaagree with choice here, i dont want poops on mid, its a death sentence. Canyon is only position resembling staying alive for new players

obtuse roost
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ban glitters its a trash map that ruins the game for new players. they wind up in canyon and get fucked. its honestly 10x worse than front on SB

compact oasis
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replace "glitters" with "straits" and it's perfect

stone swallow
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Just spam esker map

  • No canyon
  • Pretty balanced mirrored map
  • More braindead than glitters
  • You can actually use t3
  • No one can make rag/calamity at 25 mins
  • Communism would be practically gone as everyone is frontline
wild pebble
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Not always, but usually

exotic flare
crisp turtle
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It never will exist

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Game will become insanely shit if u remove strait n glitters they're good tutorial maps

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Wcyd some people get perma stuck on beginner maps and don't branch out

vernal gazelle
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noobs don't insta die on Talus

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so little metal and large map with chokes