Rockethovers missiles do not have burnblow and thus can have epic overshoot

[echo cave]

Game: https://www.beyondallreason.info/replays?gameId=7faa0f67482ae415fc79bc61e1ae8f4d

Rockethovers shooting at a radarwobble'd dot go quite long 😄

Burnblow=true needed I guess?

[ocean crest]

yes burnblow will help put a hard stop on it, maybe setting weapontimer so the rocket runs out of fuel and fall might be more desired if possible

[echo cave]

weapontimer seems more fun in that case

[ocean crest]

....except for starburst weapon... weapontimer is the time it travels up vertically before moving towards target :/

[echo cave]

how about flightTime?

[ocean crest]

flightTime

yes

[echo cave]

i might have a fiddle with some tweaks and see if i can repro and have a graceful fix

[ocean crest]

current hover rl flighttime = 10

[odd lantern]

lmao

[ocean crest]

@echo cave you could also do this for armsptk

[echo cave]

So in scope are:
1: cormh
2: armmh
3: armsptk

[ocean crest]

... unless if you find more, cause i didnt search for it

[echo cave]

Gives me enough to start with

[echo cave]

Tl;dr Rockethovers probably don't need changing, or if so only a tiny tweak with flighttime down from 10 to 8

the long

• When flighttime is lower than weapontime their missiles never complete their vertical trajectory and just fly off the stratosphere
• burnblow does not work for these weapons at all, with it true or false once flighttime is reached the missiles will run out of fuel and fall to the ground rather than explode in the air as expected
• Anything less than 8 seconds means the Rockethovers cannot reliably hit in-range targets in extreme geography scenarios e.g. firing up or down substantial cliffs

So slightly tweaking the flighttime value down to reduce fly-past situations is possible but it was very rare to even get rockethovers into the situation above requires:

1. Specific geography
2. Hover positioning
3. Defensive unit radar wobble to be in particular positions

[terse gyro]

epic!

[echo cave]

armsptk's missiles oddly seem to curve up gently after they pass their target, they can still over-range; but without adding a ballistic trajectory which and with burnblow not functioning we're a bit stuck

[wanton robin]

Is hover player targeting air to do that?..

What kind of cheat is that, I want to have some units target space above ground too.

[echo cave]

Radar dots wobble in 3D; in this case it was about maximum wobble on the Commander who was standing on the cliff, so it targeted the dot, missed the unit and flew down the hill 🙂

[cloud siren]

yeah I can easily fix this with a modification of the leash gadget I wrote for torpedo bombers

I think I can get really good performance by doing some math to predict when the rocket should be at the edge of its range and then start checking every other frame for when it is beyond its max range. Then kill it

all gadget stuff. should have something within a week or two

[wanton robin]

Only for missiles? No more peaks target tech then. However the effect of missiles (those that aren't tracking, obviously) running out of juice and slowly flopping down on ground will be lost to that hard limit, won't it? Unless it's just an extra line to be given or unchecked for selected units?

[minor quest]

Lower flighttime

[cloud siren]

Read

[cloud siren]

gadget in the works

basically created another more customizable version of burnblow in a gadget

[cloud siren]

The gadget and unit implementation has been merged. This kind of behavior can now 100% be a thing of the past

[terse gyro]

How to use widget? Do you just enable parameters in the unit's weapon def?

[cloud siren]

Gadget, not widget. It's always enabled. Opt-in behavior by adding the customparams detailed here: https://github.com/beyond-all-reason/Beyond-All-Reason/blob/65181cf192212f3f00b242d8598571d482754b1e/luarules/gadgets/unit_projectile_overrange.lua#L13

[faint urchin]

the overrange compensation might be a bit too aggressive on the arbiter (also it can't shoot to the edge of the circle but that probably a seperate issue)

[cloud siren]

context?

was there a terrein differential?

[faint urchin]

the arbiter was on a large mountain shooting down

[cloud siren]

what map

[faint urchin]

a jank one I made but I can replicate it on an offical one real quick

[cloud siren]

this is actually weapondef.flighttime at work. Not my gadget.

\ vcb

v mmnm

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['=][ mn -b = =] +mm n, myinup0lkoijpi/20154kikk

6827301

godang babyd

[faint urchin]

even greather spread between hit and aim thats on ascendancy v2.2

[cloud siren]

flightime expiring gives the visual indication that the flames coming out the back cease

my gadet lets the flames continue but forces it to nosedive

[faint urchin]

ah good to know

[cloud siren]

set flighttime to a higher value such that it no longer triggers, this is the result

[faint urchin]

if I read right that setting only affects missiles, there is a similar thing with legion tanks, maybe too offtopic for this thread tough

[cloud siren]

not quite

overrange works on anything that's technically a projectile but currently its only been added to rocket/missile units for performance reasons and also because it looks really goofy when cannon shots are forced to nosedive

what specific units are being silly on the legion side?

[faint urchin]

a lot actually I think all the rail tanks and the ones with the golden beam all have trouble shooting down from hills, either they can't target the ground below them at all or the proj times out before it hits

[cloud siren]

https://springrts.com/wiki/Gamedev:WeaponDefs#cylinderTargeting likely deliberate for the heatrays. A ray is a ray and isn't affected by gravity

@indigo geode do you like how railguns fail to hit targets at large terrein differentials?

[faint urchin]

yeah that makes sense but then the targeting circle should reflect that

[cloud siren]

https://github.com/beyond-all-reason/Beyond-All-Reason/pull/4441 there ya go
This fix can be used for any other naughty missile/rocket unit that has the customparam.overrange whatever it's called

[faint urchin]

this is arquebus / legsrail

[indigo geode]

Is this caused by railguns using the lasercannon weapon type? If it has a cyllinder range to target/attack, but lasercannons have a built-in spherical range because the projectile exists for a certain number of frames, then a large elevation could cause areas where it targets but can't hit.

Is it possible to force the weapon to use the spherical range?

[faint urchin]

leginc also doesn't hit the gound and has a weird angle also doesn't want to attack at all if aimed further away

[indigo geode]

leginc has a normal laser in its unit file, so it should be showing a spherical range

[faint urchin]

it might actually be spherical yes maybe something different? sol invictus(can't check internal name widget crashes) also has this as well as legbastion

[indigo geode]

Can you check if normal laser units have this as well?

[faint urchin]

sure whats one with a lot of range...

[indigo geode]

could try armhlt or armanni

[faint urchin]

armhit doesn't even want to attack down the hill at all and armanni has weirdly short range it does show a smaller faint circle but that doesn't match its range either

[indigo geode]

When issuing an attack command I see 2 range rings, so the incinerator is acting as it should and only firing in the smaller ring. I think the range gadget that normally displays doesn't do any elevation calculations while the one that shows up when you select units does.

I don't know what is causing this, my guess is that the heading/pitch calculation gets messed up at extreme elevation differences

[faint urchin]

incinerator does fire slightly farther then it can hit though

[indigo geode]

Either that or having the unit at weird tilts confuses it

[faint urchin]

I noticed it happening on more even ground too against a turret, it was just stuck firing but not doing damage until I moved it a litle closer

looks like its aim gets wonky sometimes

sol invictus lasers also seem to do this

for the bastion it looks like only the start of the beam is hitting at long range and the rest isn't, maybe a clue?

whats up with the guns twitching like that

[indigo geode]

For the arms its a known glitch with the acceleration aiming script, but it shouldn't be affecting the heatray

[faint urchin]

mh I set the unit to hold fire and it started shooting the ground normally with the right beam

it does continuous damage even though its twitching like that

it does do the tiniest amount of damage at the end of the beam could this have to do with damage falloff going to 0 at the last bit of the beam?