#More T1 units?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

silk juniper
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So basically I feel that T1 gameplay can get pretty boring over time, as there are so few units that every T1 game is basically the same. Particularly bots. I play a lot of 1v1 and this is especially true. I feel like adding more niche units, that you wouldn't want to mass but would be good for very specific tasks, would help to add dynamics and therefore more enjoyment/variety. For example, Armada bots has 2 additional units that have no counterpart, Centurion and Tick. Centurion is one of those units that isn't that great tbh, BUT it can be very useful/powerful in certain situations.

I know that T1 is supposed to be more simple and T2 increases the amount of complexity to combat. I am just brainstorming because I think that more units = more interesting games, less of the same. I would also like more T2 units lol.

sturdy fjord
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I think this is a popular topic.
It usually ends up homogenising all of the units. "hey; we've got a rocket t2 for core so armada can have a.."
or it suggestings puting abilities; albeit slightly less powerful; which should be on a t2 unit on t1 in some way.

wicked island
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IMO the issue isn't that T1 hasn't enough units, it's that duels and small team games don't go long enough to reach T2.

candid field
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Imo the issue is large games t1 phase lasts 5 min

wicked island
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no that's not true, on the frontline the T1 stage is 10-15 min depending on the map. You get a T2 con around 8-10 min yes, but you don't produce T2 units. But in duel T1 stage is more like 25 min.

candid field
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But thw guy who sells also sents t2 and t1 becomes obsolete

ruby minnow
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The real problem you actually see all across the game is that the factions are too siimilar and dont really have a identity or playstyle suited to them. T1 especialy has this problem because everything is mirrored witht the exception of 4 units
2 of those units dont have a mirror and are just in armada for some reason, Tiick and centurion

and janus and Pounder
Both of which also dont technically belong there if we're bein consistent with bar design

Honestly Legion is the fix for this, its becoming so unique that theyve already stated that armada and cortex will get a overhaul after its done

languid wave
# wicked island IMO the issue isn't that T1 hasn't enough units, it's that duels and small team ...

very close I think, it's that they effectively -can't-, the relative investment is usually such that by the time you can T2, you could already have won with T1 tech, or should have. IMO there's a few possible solutions, but I think the best is that mexes slowly level up overtime, and produce more metal. That way A: map control matters more than turtling, and in teamgames, frontliners are thus less reliant on eco & tech to save the day, and B: all things being equal, econ will scale up to allow T2 to 'unlock' without having to take a huge risk

languid wave
wicked island
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it is very map dependent indeed, if you have low metal mexes on a wide open map, it forces confrontation early. Put mountains and 5.0 mexes near spawn points, and you got a turtling dream.

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that 1v1 tournament on 8v8 maps was very interesting for example

silk juniper
ruby minnow
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even t2 needs a bit more factoin uniqueness. Especially when it comes to defenses, eco, and gameplay styles. but itss mostly t1

silk juniper
silk juniper
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But yeah the defenses are all literally the same thing with the exception of, once again, Armada with the Starlight. Which TECHNICALLY is Bulwurk but, so different that it's just better.

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Sorry, not Starlight. Pulsar.

wicked island
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people don't even build thugs and maces anymore. They start with ticks/pawns and grunts, just to scout a bit, harass, then they know their frontline has to be rocket bots or they're fucked

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I haven't seen Baron or LDM open vehicles in weeks...

candid field
wicked island
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depends how easy it is to fix it

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coz if you nerf too much, then it's back to whistler janus meta

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I think people need to ask themselves : what do I want ?

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personally I would want bot and vehicles to be used equally. Not on the same map, coz flat terrain should always favor vehicles, but overall, over the various maps played

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before the rocket bot buff, vehicles was the way to go, so much so that you would transition from bots to vehicles. Nowadays, you don't, you just go straight to T2.

candid field
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Maybe thugs should become more competitive agains veh, an accuracy and movespeed buff could be a good start

vivid ember
# languid wave very close I think, it's that they effectively -can't-, the relative investment ...

This... Is really an interesting idea. Mexes getting better over time.

Right now this could be done with TweakDefs even with the unit_evolution gadget.

Can mexes gain xp?

Perhaps a gadget allowing mexes to gain XP per second alive based on how much metal they extract. This allows a compounding effect (which may be desirable)

The gadget that does T1>T2 upgrades would need to be edited to transfer XP.

Unit_evolution.lua already transfers XP and can arbitrarily level up the mex at 10 minutes or some such.

languid wave
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it's one of my long term ideas, it should be possible

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I just don't have enough time and god knows there's too much stuff I'm already working on & meeting excessive resistance over

candid field
wicked island
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it would make turtling more viable because there would be less need to expand

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you hold, you hold, and then you can build mass pulsars

candid field
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Yeah but if your opponent manages to porc more mexes then the already uphill battle will be impossible to overcome, in game where the only antisnowball mechanisms are d gun and spybots

wicked island
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I think you need less metal to porc that to break porc though

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plus what you kill trying to break the porc you can reclaim

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if you send a jug at me, 4-5 pulsars will kill it, and then that's a 29k metal donation, enough to build 8 more pulsars