#Change tachyon weapon overkill

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

humble stratus
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The beam has a charge build and a duration, why would it stop firing.
Generally speaking I'm thinking that starlight is probably a tiny bit OP (mostly because it's very tough in terms of HP, too tough in my opinion).

Remember that each shot costs the equivalent of 15 or so metal, which adds up.

sharp hawk
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When normal weapons overkill, alot of dmg is lost, when tachyon weapons overkill this is not necessarily the case. It's the strongest and longest range singletarget weapon and it's also too good vs spam, that's my problem

boreal rapids
scenic furnace
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I've been thinking the tachyon should do the same damage per shot but over less time, when units are fast or clumped the arm t2 single target sniper can get 2 to 4 units at a time from units walking into the beam
A little bit of this is probably OK and would encourage micro but rn the beam lasts so long its like splash dmg

nova sapphire
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Just don't walk all your units into a giant laser beam in a straight line

humble stratus
nova sapphire
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I know. Spam are units that can receive orders after they're made still.

You can set their path in the lab too to just not run straight into the porc that's killing them.

scenic furnace
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Of course there are workarounds, but the issue seems to be that the tachs are a little too good against their supposed hard counter

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Tachyons with no micro trade too well against spam with no micro

nova sapphire
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If the tachyon shoots the spam, that's what you want right? If it kills 2 or 3 grunts instead of 1, that's still okay imo.

Just go kill the tachyon that's busy shooting spam with the units you didn't want it shooting at.

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If you want the spam to kill the tachyon, you need enough of it to not get blown up by tachyon. And probably come at it from a different angle.

scenic furnace
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Yes you can improve the efficiency either way with control

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But the tachyon is a little too good at the exact opposite of its intended role

nova sapphire
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The counter to porc is micro though.

That's the downside of building porc. You generally can't micro it.

scenic furnace
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And the downside of tachyons is supposed to be inability to target multiple units

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So like I said if I was gonna suggest a change I would just have it do all its damage over shorter time so it still excels vs single targets and gets less free splash damage

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(I'm using tachyon to refer to the weapon used by the vehicle and the static defense, I'm at work and forgot the in game names)

nova sapphire
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I think one of the bar game design goals is to not have super hard counters.

So the fact that these big lasers can cut down multiple small units if the small units all line up like dominos (remember, these tachyon weapons can't retarget after shooting, the targets have to line up perfectly), that's good.

Otherwise if 200 metal worth of spam could blow up expensive t2 units that require dedicated energy infrastructure to even shoot, that'd be super imbalanced.

I always thought of spam countering these weapons as the spam buys time for something else to kill the snipers/tachyons.

scenic furnace
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Yeah and the tachyons are just a little bit too good at killing a little bit too much spam, in my experience once they hit a critical mass they chew through your spam too fast to cover for other units

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I'm suggesting small tinkers to reduce the frequency of multi kills, not make them impossible

sharp hawk
nova sapphire
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I mean, is there a problem with your spam losing to their spam while guarded by expensive long range units? I thought that would be expected.

Don't get me wrong, it's a difficult position to take when there's a bunch of snipers/tachyon weapons with a proper spam trickle coming in. And decent compositin of combined arms is going to take a similarly mixed response.

I main cortex pretty much exclusively so I'm on the receiving end of that combo a lot. If I have the eco, I've had decent success with grunt spam and tigers moving. You need something to take the hits and something to close the distance quickly. Grunts + tigers are great at that. I've never noticed or cared that a starlight can technically kill multiple grunts with a single shot. I'm usually just happy the grunts got hit instead of the units I need to kill the long range jerks.

A better option that brute force is usually the T2 long range missile units. Static defenses just lose, the starlights are usually very easy to hit as well.

Snipers are annoying, but they don't have the laser beam weapon this thread is about (and they do less damage so tigers alone do a bit better rushing in)

sharp hawk
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Snipers dont matter, the problem is that starlights will kill both the spam killing units (llt, sumo mammoth) and grunts, if i make arbiters they just die becouse i cant deal w the spam and starlights oneshot them + they can just dodge, as i've said before my issue is with them being decent at killing spam while being excellent at killing everything else, most units dont get to do both at such long range (sniper, arbiter, art, sheldon etc)

silver thistle
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Spam is very effective against tachyons, only slightly less effective than it is against everything thats not lightning. This seems like a very strange thing to complain about. Starlights dies to like 100 metal of ticks or grunts, and you think this isnt good enough?

Also, why on earth would you want to buff spam? It's strong enough already.

sharp hawk
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i just want arm vehicle players to suffer when they dont micro their units as i suffer when i dont micro my units

silver thistle
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they do, and for exactly the same reasons

nova sapphire
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Build the long range missile truck, have them manually target the starlights.

If the arm player isn't microing them (or rather, the units around them) they will suffer plenty