Make "other" maps more appealing for general public

[junior sparrow]

Let's start a discussion - how to make maps other than Glitters and Supreme more approachable and appealing for players playing only aformentioned maps?

As a new player, it's difficult for me to even know what the starting spots are, let alone some basic strats on less popular maps (even Rosetta, etc.). How to improve this?

[grand flint]

Player count for maps listed in map selector. I think it could lead to people not being scared of trying different maps, when they can be sure that one was designed for their wanted play. But last time I asked about that, it was hindered for technical reasons I believe

[pale skiff]

What are good start spots and strategies varies so much depending on team coordination and skill level, it's hard to know what to recommend

As one plays more different maps and game types, it gets easier to evaluate how to play a new map. For newbies who only got experience of 8v8 on those maps, not sure what'd make the jump to new stuff easier. New players also often have unreasonably rigid beliefs on what's the proper way to play AtG/Straits, putting some formal guidelines on how to play, could further stifle outside the box thinking.

Losing rating points if you play something unfamiliar is probably also a big factor for how much ppl are willing to try new things, but per-map OS wouldn't be good either, then you'd just get super unreliable ratings on most maps

Would unranked games make ppl more comfortable with trying new maps?

[balmy bane]

You can use map browser on the website. It's much more capable, and once picked map there, select in game.

There is proposed widget to show startpos, but startpos data is broken for a bunch of maps without easy way to deploy fix, so this needs more work.

[main forge]

I think having suggestions here isn't bad, especially for maps like Rosetta. I often find two minutes before the game starts isn't enough to convince people that taking a spawn with 14 metal income is better than taking one with 7 metal income that also gimps your techer by stealing his stuff.

[dusk gyro]

I started working on that, it is possible to do

[fringe pebble]

Learning the game on a single map is the easiest way to quickly learn the game but then you get stuck on a map coz changing maps won't make you play at ur TS value anymore and some players don't want to go through learning the game outside one map.
Giving new players some sort of temporary "help" and rewards for changing maps very early when they start learning the game could make it so they don't fall into the trap of playing only one map or 2.

A "tutorial" widget that is turned on by default, showing the starting position, ranking difficulty of the spawns / roles and the immediate mexes belonging to the start position.
Doesn't need to be on every maps only the most popular ones.

A pool of 10 most popular maps that people can see are the "recommended" beginner maps with a tutorial widget available.

[golden pawn]

Or Koom. I have spent an absurd amount of time explaining that Koom only has 2 backline spots

[crimson wind]

First time seeing this topic

[pale skiff]

Idk about that, you may get better eco starting only 1 guy in the middle and just flying in comms from back to the center

Whether that's exactly right or wrong, there's more ways to play that may or may not depend on decent team cooperation to work.

It's kinda hard to say what kind of advice should be given generally, is it more fun to teach new ppl the meta of how the game is typically played, or a more holistic view

[fringe pebble]

yeah just show them how it's typically played, it's the easiest way for them to get into the game, once they know that they can learn the others ways

[junior sparrow]

Well it does seem like the game needs a more streamlined new player experience. A new beginner friendly map pool would definitely fit in - maps that have more straight forward roles/strategies.

Even the OP lobby could use a map pool feature

[fading dome]

a way of doing some map pool stuff now could be via tags - like the current 1v1, teams, water etc. tags

[pale skiff]

8 lane maps are the most straightforward in roles, yet they aren't what newbies stereotypically like to play.

Supreme and atg don't have a clear cut way you should optimally start / play, how it's usually done is most of all reliant on convention. Most of all they're liked because they easily allow games to progress to lategame.

Or what would be other keys to a newb friendly map? And is it more about map design, or about lack of guidance for how to play a given map?
In other words, would a better solution be better (for a given specification) maps, or better/more accessible instructions for existing maps?

Or some lobby change, how would a newbie friendly map pool work compared to just playing on current map rotation host?

[dusk gyro]

map meta is largely a reflection of avoiding certain gameplay, eg grunt jockeying and glassium econ. people want safer maps where they can econ a bit rather than have to knife fight it

[junior sparrow]

There could be a map rotation comitee, or public vote

[fading dome]

so, are we talking about blocking maps from being played?

so that people actually play the maps in the pool

[junior sparrow]

How does !nextmap work currently?

[fading dome]

I think @balmy bane made the current implementation. Afaik !nextmap picks the next map at random from a list of maps that would fit the current player numbers.

[fringe pebble]

i think we could try having a smaller map rotation that removes all the "troll" maps for OP lobby, the list could change month to month by removing a few and adding new ones to keep the game fresh.
Could take some time and energy to get that tho coz lobby changes are hard to get

[balmy bane]

server side implementation is some old plugin, not me, the generation of config, selection of maps to categories was implemented by RebelNode, and currently it's purely based on number of configured players for each map with some filtering out of things like pve maps, metal maps etc

AFAIK current server side plugin doesn't support selecting some named map rotation, and staying with it regardless of how many players are in the room etc, it just dynamicaly picks the map rotation based on number of players, that's it.

Also whoever wants to improve that is welcome to do so but note, that plugin is writen in Perl.

[junior sparrow]

pretty straightforward ^^