#Jet Pack Bots?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

quiet drum
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Could we have Jet Pack Bots for 1 of the factions? They could have a short 3 second jet pack burst where they can fly over units, onto mountains, and then the recharge would be say 10 seconds and require X energy. I would imagine them to have green lasers and be Core so to spice up the Core unit roster for T2. They would move at a speed slower than a Fiend, but their jet pack ability enables some interesting combat moves.

Why?
Special forces surgical strike unit
A versatile unit that could outflank the enemy and not be obstructed by walls/terrain
Surprise attacks on hard to reach hills/rocks/mountains etc
Excellent for gaining flanking damage bonus
Intelligence gathering with potential build options

Considerations
Can be targeted by AA and fighters whilst in the air
Can fire laser whilst in the air
Energy consumption for recharding jet pack.
Perhaps is able to build simple structures like radar, radar jammers and perimeter cameras
Relatively lightly armoured for T2. Possibly stealth option.
Possible Name?
Meteor

olive locust
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Supreme commander had jumping bots and, uhh, there's a reason my friends typically don't want to play strategy games with me

quiet drum
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I am not sure what that means?!

rocky trail
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terrain-ignoring fast units frequently cause opponents to rage quit strategy games, is what that means

lean mist
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In all honesty even with new mechanics for units being implemented, there can definitely be room to add in units such as these that they could be a fun to use. I could even see these as a T2 bot that’s a counterpart to the stealth tank that the Armada faction has, so Cortex have another cool insertion unit. They don’t need much health either honestly, just give them some lower health if it really bothers people and llts can bring them down easily enough. Arm them with something like a small laser arm or some pike like Zero-K had for the Scythe units.

rocky trail
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this sounds like a termite but with extra steps

quiet drum
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tbh if people are going to rage quite because they are out microed in combat, let them! You are always going to get that in games. I dont think it should be a reason to put a in a unit that is a bit more specialist but could be quite powerful played well.

rocky trail
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My only question is how this would avoid ending up as as something that doesn't have the exact same use cases as termite

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I guess crossing small bodies of deep water made for amphib units before functioning as an all-terrain bot? I'm not sure how many maps that's even relevant on

lean mist
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Maybe a short ranged navigation would be good, or give them full flight ability or a toggle function while sucking up energy, make them weak to aa and land units but with the option to traverse over places fighters would be more useful early game

Just spewing ideas here, since it would obviously just be a prototype in theory craft

bronze kindle
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it sounds like a unit potentially so broken that it forces maps to be designed around it, thereby making maps generic and the unit mostly useless anyway. See also, reapers, colussus.

quiet drum
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I dont think maps need to be designed around this type of unit. It would be a more situational unit, but that is similar to quite a few units in BAR which are less effective on some maps. I like it playing a map and thinking 'what unit is going to play to its strength here?' That is a strength of BAR's wide unit roster.

How is it different to the Termite? It would be quicker going up slopes so more a surprise/fast recon attack. It could jetpack over lakes/small bodies of water. It's ability to jet pack over and around an attacking force to gain flank multipliers. As I suggested having build options to build radar on mountain tops which would otherwise need a construction aircraft.
It would need more microing to most other units, but I suppose in that, there is fun and strategic gain that other units perhaps couldn't offer.
Tbh I think it could be a fun and versatile unit, but on some maps it would be useless. I think the jet pack timing would need testing (3 seconds may not be enough) so that is sufficiently useful for most mountain jet pack jumps. Also it would need a useful UI for the player to understand where the jet pack could get them to.
Anyway, its just an idea! Appreciate the feedback and ideas 👍

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I would also see that Termites and Recluse are specific 'All Terrain' capable and are able to hide on the sides of cliffs and traverse the sides of cliffs which can very sitautional on some maps but also very good for surprise flank attacks. This unit wouldnt have that ability. Its about short jump bursts that allow out manuevering or reconing. This unit would be more versatile by jumping over walls, small bodies of water, steep cliffs and hills, small bases etc

lean mist
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Yeah maybe the idea of just doing a single jump with a recharge meter needed to perform another jump would be good. Give it maybe as far as it can see, then you won’t have to worry about it being able to get longer OP range while also having more options for maneuvering

quiet drum
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Given that Core have a less diverse T1 Bot roster, possibly it could a be a lightly armoured but more costly T1 bot, Could even be like Spec Ops Grunt. Therefore whilst Arm have a heavily armoured Centurion as pushing robot, Core could have this Jet Pack bot. This would need balancing as Kiting is often a complaint of bots, but if the recharge and energy use were balanced they would be vulnerable when not able to jet pack.

rocky trail
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Time for cor to have marines and reapers?

quiet drum
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I dont know what the Reaper is?

lean mist
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Iirc he’s either referring to a unit in Total Annihilation, or it’s the reference to a unit that’s in Zero-K, but I think he meant the Scythe and not Reaper

dawn moon
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it's a SC2 unit

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https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Reaper_(Legacy_of_the_Void) this thing, though admittedly the thread got me thinking of https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Jump_jet_infantry_(Tiberian_Sun) 😄

Liquipedia StarCraft 2 Wiki
Reaper (Legacy of the Void) - Liquipedia - The StarCraft II Encyclo...

This article covers the unit. For the American Zerg player, see Reaper (American player).
This article covers the current multiplayer version of this unit. For other versions see Reaper (Heart of the Swarm), Reaper (Wings of Liberty) and Reaper (Wings of Liberty Campaign).

Command & Conquer Wiki
Jump jet infantry (Tiberian Sun)

Jump jet infantry are airborne GDI soldiers used during the Second Tiberium War and the Firestorm Conflict. They are equipped with a back mounted jetpack unit with an integrated chaingun (though...

lean mist
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Oh neat. Never played it

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I actually think of Zone Troopers from Tiberium Wars 3

quiet drum
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I was looking at the unit roster for Core and tbh hadn't really realised the role of the 'Commando' as never used it. This performs a jump out of a transport plane and paratrooper role to go behind enemy lines etc. So i think if a Jet Pack Bot is a thing ( and it doesnt have to be Core) it probably would better suit being T1 as a light infantry recon unit that has some limited build options. This would make the Cre T1 more interesting and versatile, without duplicating some of the all terrain and paratrooper bot roles.

lean mist
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Ah, and I figured this a modified combat unit specifically. I'll admit that I'm having a harder time thinking what forms of stuff it should be able to build, and even more so as to how much build and firepower it should have. If it's a T1 scout version of the Commando then perhaps it wouldn't have much thought for weapons, but perhaps some units instead?

quiet drum
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I was thinking it could build T1: Radar Tower, Peritmeter Camera, Radar Jammer, Light Mine

lean mist
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Hmm, the Commando can build the jammers though

supple yacht
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Give it a minesweaping attack like the minelayers but smaller

rocky trail
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All i can really say is that a t1 unit with this many features awill need a very high price tag, or very low stats

supple yacht
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It should literally have no weapon other than minesweaping
It is a bot version of the minelayer

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At best it can lay down light mines next to undefended structures to blow them up

quiet drum
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tbh maybe the commando should just be upgraded to have a jet pack? It kinda builds one with the transport plane. I hadn't realised how close my idea was to this unit (as I havent really used it) So either Arm get a Jet Pack bot alternative to the commando or the commando could get a Jet pack?

lean mist
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It’s not exactly the same concept since jump pack units in general don’t exclusively mean a cloak interception. I had originally thought of making them a full combat unit but have the ability to traverse difficult terrain or shoots distances they can’t access normally

quiet drum
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yes agreed

dense delta
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Just give this game zero k lobsters

wanton falcon
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All I can think of are 40k Assault Marines

rocky trail
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...or any of the other factions' equivalents on DoW?

wind hedge
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Starcraft 2 Terran infantry unit, reapers, had a heavy presence unit partially nerfed and players had to build to counter it every game or just lose. I’m not sure who it would be safely balanced

lean mist
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Personally I’d provide it requirements of the same energy it takes in similar need to use the ability in the same way the commander needs to move while cloaking. Make it heavy enough only a few can do it at a time. Not too much though to have an energy crash

lean mist
# rocky trail ...or any of the other factions' equivalents on DoW?

Considering that DoW has a bunch more variety in factions and that the units themselves operate on a different scaling compared to BAR I can’t say that any are actually close. Perhaps some of the modded from Apocalypse like the Adeptus Mechanicus or the Inquisitors but that’s still a stretch.

rocky trail
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I was mostly just thinking of DoW because it's an rts that has assault marines, but it also made me think of the fact that in that game it's a standard unittype.

SC2 is just what makes me primarily concerned about a t1 unit with a jetpack and a weapon, because both games have quite vulnerable eco, and despite a reaper effectively being 1 overpriced BAR grunt which can jump up and down ledges, building 1 at the beginning of every match and using it to make your opponent miserable has been the terran meta for the better part of the last 15 years

lean mist
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Considering that units aren’t exactly built with jump jets in mind, why not also make their movement slower while using them? Then they aren’t as high speed altitude assault raiders that have more flexibility and have more opportunity to be countered.

rocky trail
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since people start building ranged combat units generally before even an enemy tick can get to their base (excluding 1 mex openers), it likely wouldn't be as much of a pain point as in sc2, it's just an issue of how to make the unit both worth making on more than a small subset of maps with abusable terrain without making them impossible to play against on that subset of maps

wise coyote
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more zone trooper, less reaper?

rocky trail
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which aspects of zone trooper?

wise coyote
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being slow when not using the jetpack
long recharge and very short use
so its skirmishing capabilities are weaker in exchange for being able to skip across certain terrain
i suppose that would make it a little micro heavy for something as silly as moving at an optimal speed

void lagoon
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TL;DR, but did anyone mention all-terrain bots? How would these differ in function (except lava)?

rocky trail
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By maybe being t1, mostly. also by being able to cross small bodies of water.

wanton falcon
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Burst of mobility, can go over water.

quiet drum
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Essentially I was thinking a T1 Jet Pack Grunt or Grunt Recon. They would have perhaps a bit more armour and perhaps slightly longer range, but be slower moving when not using jet pack. Jet Pack would have a energy recharge so couldn't repeatedly be used.
I also suggested they have some build options unlike Termite etc. I would see them Jet Packing up to a mountain top to build a radar for recon to give a player better visibility, then recharging and moving off somewhere else. I would see them as mainly light assualt using their ability to navigate difficult terrain quickly as the main strength. This does make them more situationally specific to some maps, but there are plenty of maps with mountains, small bodies of water and lava that would make them a interesting unit to employ. I think they would also be slower than Grunts so that in normal skirmish without using their jet pack they can be countered by other T1. The energy usage would need balancing as obv early game a player doesnt have stacks of energy, but a player could choose to build energy storage and enough energy production that they are not hampered by energy shortfall. Again all ideas!

lean mist
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Honestly I think it’d be neat to have new smaller factories that produce specific units that don’t fit into the norm, like one specifically designed for making ones revolving around these concepts so there’s more units

quiet drum
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hmm not sure, there already quite a lot of Factory options, people tend to have to specialise down 1 route, Bot, Vehicle or Air and then go T2. Ideally a player has the diversity to have a Bot, Air and Vehicle Factory so they have a more well rounded army, but this isnt really sensible from an economy pov as factories cost a lot. If you had in a another factory, does that have T2 factory as well? It gives more tech routes, but I am not in favour of pushing players down one route. Ideally within the existing factories their is diversity of units. You could for example add 'drones' to Air factories, or you could add in a 'Drone Factory'

Getting back to Jet Pack troops, they are a more niche troop and tbh think is what is needed for T1. There are a lot more options at T2, the Core T1 is really dull.

dense delta
quiet drum
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Hmm say 75?

torpid saddle
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This is an idea I have had for a long time. make it so they have a limited jump range of like say 1000? My thoughts were to have them be ARM only since core get the commando. Call them I Icarus and either give them a close range gauss cannon or laser.

dense delta
torpid saddle
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I think it would be cool if they had a close range tachyon beam weapon. like a shotgun tachyon

shut condor
quiet drum
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I think the unit would better fit the ARM doctrine approach, but I first recommended for CORE because they lack diversity at T1 and generally players prefer ARM. CORE need some more interesting units. BUT having said that, the commando is kinda like a Jet Pack bot albeit it uses a transport plane to achieve this. Commando is rarely seen in MP, possibly because it is quite a micro intense unit to use well. Again, I hope over time players do use more strategies and the diversity of units. I think T1 does need spicing up and Jet Pack bots could do that well.

wanton falcon
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It would probably have to be active point-click landing location, instead of some duration--unless it could handle landing in water when time runs out.

dense delta
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Commando is mostly used in 8v8 to kill afuses because backline never builds turrets or units

torpid saddle
torpid saddle
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T1 Jetpack bots would be too good imo. It would have to be T2.

small dagger
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A jetpack bot does certainly sound fun.
I'd see it as a light assault bot. T2 factory but only T1.5 in combat power. Short range so that it is countered by turrets is mainly about exploiting it's mobility.
I'm not so sure about giving it build options though. I'd probably say to keep it as a combat unit.
Although if you wanted a spicy option for it, you could perhaps allow the Commando to build them.
Which would give a Commando that got behind enemy lines, the option to sit and build some raiding buddies if he can remain undetected for a few minutes.

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So if considering this guy as a counterpart to the Arm stealth tank, the thematic aspect of it would be that...
Arm - Sneaks in slowly and carefully to hit something important.
Core - Jumps through your window and tries to dash to the target before you can stop it.

AA would be able to target whilst jumping, to defend against trying to leap over static defences.

wanton falcon
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Jetpack Grunts with chainsaw arms, but the chainsaw blades shoot short range lasers

frosty rose
torpid valve
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I mean, give more units the "paratrooper" ability and this kinda would be the same without giving one unit a special cool down skill. The metal investment is much larger of course, but that's what your air player is for and helps balance a little.
But now I have an image in my head of grunts being flung by transports at the enemy, and it's beautiful.
Though paratrooper centurions would be much more useful and terrifying.

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Getting away is definitely the difficult part in this case, so it is fairly different thinking about it

wanton falcon