#Add more information about how Pinpointers work?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

shrewd salmon
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There doesn't seem to be much information at all about how they work. Website says:

"The Pinpointer enhances the accuracy of your radar towers for the entire team. You only need to build 3 facilities on each map.
Use them to improve the targeting of your artillery."

Does having more than 3 make them better with diminishing returns? What's the difference between 1 2 and 3 pinpoints exactly?

Does this ONLY apply to artillery? What kind of artillery? Buildings? Or any units with artillery-like weapons too?

Would love if the website or game has more detail on how this works. I think it would also help a lot of players understand what they do and therefore build them. It's rare to see players build them.

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Add more information about how Pinpointers work?

warm geyser
upbeat fractal
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Oh yeah, we should probably link that guide from the pinpointer page, or even better, extract the pinpointer snippet into its own miniguide and link that from the pinpointer page.

So it's not that the information isn't there, it's that it isn't easy to find.

warm geyser
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so:

Does having more than 3 make them better with diminishing returns? What's the difference between 1 2 and 3 pinpoints exactly?

  • diminishing returns
  • does it matter? at the point in the game where pinpointers are useful, you would always build 3 anyway

Does this ONLY apply to artillery? What kind of artillery? Buildings? Or any units with artillery-like weapons too?

  • it stops wobbling of radar dots, so it's not something that applies (or not) to any units. Any time you shoot at radar dots with anything, you benefit from it.
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as for this:

It's rare to see players build them.
there's a good reason, and it's not because of lack of information. It's because they're not actually very useful:

  • Shooting at radar is imprecise and generally inefficient, instead they will always try to get proper LoS on targets, with scout units / spies / high LoS units (mobile radars).
  • Radars are easily countered by jammers, whereas LoS cannot be countered.

Combining these 2 bits, IMO the only use of pinpointers is targeting long-range radar dots unprotected by jammers (because typically jammers are the front to protect your stuff from mortars / arty, not on stuff outside of front range), which essentially means shooting at stuff with T2 arty defenses or LRPCs. And when you reach the point where you build LRPCs to surprise buttsex the enemy's eco, you have enough eco to afford 3 pinpointers

thick harbor
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Except it also does nothing much for long range plasma, as it doesn't change the inherent inaccuracy, just the radar imprecision.

warm geyser
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What's the difference between 1 2 and 3 pinpoints exactly?
despite my answer above, I checked the values in engine because I had nothing to do. The magic is in https://github.com/beyond-all-reason/spring/blob/BAR105/rts/Sim/Misc/LosHandler.h

So:

  • 1 pinpointer = wobble is halved (48)
  • 2 pinpointers = wobble is halved again (24)
  • 3 pinpointers = wobble is halved again (12)

I suspect going down to 6 or lower makes no sense because at 12 you have already no wobble

warm geyser
thick harbor
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What's the hit box on a warden laser? Thats about the only think I can think of that might need more than 3

warm geyser
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I don't see any world where pinpointers are useful for HLTs, you don't make T1.5 defenses at T2 stage and HLT have 50% laser damage falloff at max range anyway

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also enemy lines shouldn't be in range of HLT anyways :p

thick harbor
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By 'need' I mean 'would have any noticeable impact on the performance of'

warm geyser
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it has a noticeable impact on T2 arty / morty pushes, if you are pushing on radar and enemy does not have jammers

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but again, good players will just give LoS for this, because it's not only cheaper, it's more efficient

shrewd salmon
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thanks for the info guys

warm geyser
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I guess one good use is when you have 2 heavily porced front lines facing each other, and you want your T2 arty defenses to wreck enemy lines when you juno them. but even then giving LoS would be better, so it's usually better to make spybots, which double as EMP bombs, so it's only if you can't send spybots because they have heavy anti-spybot spam...

thick harbor
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The pinpointed are also very non-micro intensive I guess. Easy to slap a few at the back, no harm does to late game eco.

warm geyser
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actually there IS one good use for pinpointers, even if you have access to LoS in general: shooting at cloaked commanders which are not under a jammer

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sniping a cloaked commander who suddenly lost its jammer with high damage units like sharpshooters is tremendously easier with pinpointers