Allow commander placements before lobby starts

[polar flower]

Allow players to place their commanders on the map before the game starts so there is no first to load backline meta something like this example scuffed photo I made
I have a shit pc and am forced to place wherever is left T_T

[near vessel]

Won't that shift things to a "first to enter lobby backline" meta?

How should it interact with constant team flips due to autobalance?

[polar flower]

could be as simple as once the lobby is locked in they choose where to start before the game starts

[quiet fractal]

somebodys gonna be first in any case

install linux for faster loading!

[near vessel]

linux backline meta

I use arch btw, so I'll go air

[polar flower]

💀

[maiden stirrup]

I agree it's not fair atm, idk the best solution though

you could only allow players to place once everybody has loaded in, 3 second countdown -> everybody gets to place

it's still a race but at least it's a fair race instead of being based on hardware

[quiet fractal]

getting games to start smoothly and asap is more important than fairness in spot selection

theres room to improve in that too though, if somebody has a better system

but just adding extra delays isnt good

[maiden stirrup]

you could allow players to place client-side, and then once everybody has loaded in, 3 sec countdown and then it broadcasts them. if players overlap then it prioritises at random who gets the spot, still feels hacky though

or turn based picking, but then that's even more delay

or ... fixed positions 💀

[polar flower]

just get linux

[wary minnow]

Just make a random priority placement once everyone loads in so people have to place down com in random order

This encourages teamwork and coordination as well as teams can agree ahead of time who does what

Only 1 player on each team can place down com at a time

[near vessel]

In fact there's a rational argument to make that ordering not random, just sorted by OS - but I won't defend that argument from a moral standpoint

[analog falcon]

It's a feature not a bug. Buy a modern SSD

[coral marsh]

Going to be real a ssd is such a low cost even for a 1tb drive. I’ve seen 500gb drives for like $30. Still doesn’t solve the issue of people loading in and yoinking spots but is it really a issue?

Also I’d be pissed if the entire lobby had to wait 1-3 minutes because some guy had the slowest hdd in the world

Let me choose my spot, place my starting eco, then chill and I’m cool waiting. I don’t want to wait to even choose a spot

[polar flower]

I have an ssd but I dont think "buy a better pc" is fair

everyone still has to wait for me regardless

[rigid swan]

We could also only allow placements once everyone is loaded

just saying

but that won't change the fact that it's gonna be "who clicks first"

there's no solution to this other than communicating with your team

And also now you can change your start position after readying up, it really is all about communication now.

If you or your teammate ignores the rest of the team then that's a skill issue.

[coral marsh]

I mean yea I wont say buy a new or better pc thats absurd especially a free niche game, however the ssd argument I think is fair. HDD drives are losing purpose as main C drives and are easily replacable with a low cost. I think people also need to understand that if im trash at front line or the low ts player is, dont be upset when their lane dies

[quiet fractal]

that would have ppl hovering over their preferred spot waiting for the last guy to load, trying to be the first to click there

which probably would result in more drama if anything, and would delay games actually starting

[wary minnow]

That's why I suggested that their should be an order in which people place their coms

[coral marsh]

Highest TS to lowest? But wont that mean some low ts could be in a position to throw the entire game lol

[nimble sage]

i have ssd and linux and i still load one of the last, probably because my cpu and ram are rather bad

random placements aren't good because some maps have some cheesy positions to start on

i like it being sorted by os though, can be so bad when your whole back is afk noobs and enemy back isn't

another funny suggestion: make highest os pick everyone else's positions, like captain mode

[wary minnow]

My suggestion is random order

[tight ember]

can placing be in queue? so players can 1 by (chosen randomly selected) select their spots
(just noticed was literally suggested above)

[unkempt holly]

What, FreeBSD people just instantly start building the Gantry then?

[near vessel]

Excuse me, it's actually GNU/Gantry

[faint wadi]

possibly make it work like in dota? Make lobby minimap drawable but the position would not be carried over into the game. but that sucks because game can be rebalanced before start and you'd give the enemy information about your position.

[nimble sage]

making it like dota sounds pretty useless

[dull rivet]

I feel like that will be more drama than it is now as it's basically a rat race.

[thorn crest]

I agree with the intent of this thread, but it cant be done in game room cause placement of comm wont be precise enough; so it can be only done once in game; to solve this problem I propose random pre-placement of each commander once game match loads for them, but they cant change this position UNTIL all players are placed (so all people game loaded); this way changing your random location is only possible through negotiation with other players (if all positions are taken); this I think is the most fair approach that also makes it very flexible

right now on supreme straits the "lazy/eco" positions in corner are almost always taken by first joiners - so the people with fastest computers; this is pretty annoying cause I wanna get lazy too once in a while 😄

[thorn crest]

the only fair thing is random placement + optional negotiation 🙂 it doesn't need to be race at all!

if my proposition is implemented personally I wouldn't even try to negotiate to change my pos probably ever - I would just settle with my random pos cause it's generally interesting to play various positions if u play single map often (like I do with supreme strait)

[maiden stirrup]

I think I like that solution

definitely the best idea so far

[thorn crest]

thanks, is this hard to implement?

[maiden stirrup]

not sure, I don't imagine it would be too difficult

[thorn crest]

who could do it then? 😄

[maiden stirrup]

many people, I don't wanna nominate people though 😛

@scarlet locust is usually the person that does this kinda stuff

[dry steeple]

People usually go for the style of play they enjoy the most, if you force players to tech when they hate teching or play front when they want to play air or even worse with sea spawn, it will make the games a lot less skilled, people will get mad a lot more and the games will be a lot less enjoyable i think.

[errant shoal]

Make it like dota 2 where its purely cosmetic

You can just place a marker on the map and it's enough to get a vague idea

No change when game loads

[sage turret]

this would need all the start positions to be defined, which imo is a good thing overall

[polar flower]

@thorn crest forlog spitting facts let this man cook 👨‍🍳🔥💯

[versed canyon]

I don't like taking away placement choice and replacing with random placement. There could be a priority order for placement, each player gets 5 seconds in order to choose.

Similar to DOTA2 choosing hero.

The priority order itself could be random, or based on TS.

I personally will choose naval starts as a last resort. Eco/support/frontline I prefer all of them to naval. Some people love naval.

[tight ember]

not taking away completely but pre placing people on random spots you can move after that

[noble crow]

Do the placing randomly—the fairest solution in the current scenario.

[stuck solar]

how much faster is it with arch

i was considering dual booting for a while but i cant play no games unless i use windows so i ended up never using the dual and just wiped it for more space later

[near vessel]

I would have to install windows for a proper comparison. But for me sc2 ran a fair bit faster back when I dual booted

[faint wadi]

or just delay placement until half of the team loaded?

[polar flower]

This whole post was based on this sad story

[unkempt holly]

Now load Cyberpunk 😄

[faint wadi]

Maybe add server option (for public servers) that orders position selection based on TS? Every 5 sec next player in TS order is allowed to choose a position (ingame, not pre)

[hexed flax]

I like the random placement option - but with one tweak -> Ensure there's a geospatial skill distribution across the map. Dont put all the pro's on one side of the map and the newbies on the other side of the map initially. Sure, if the later find out that's how they want to play it, cool... But the initial placement should be somewhat ordered in terms of skill.

[tight mountain]

Going to necro this a touch. Would suggest ordering not based on skill, but on Rank. Touch of OS, touch of fresh join 17 not getting to play wherever.

Can just make a default setting and add a server option to turn it off, or make it random based.

and also: after everyone loads in. I don't think doing it in lobby screen works unless we take away freeform commander placement and lock everyone into specific starting locations

which personally I don't think would really impact much but I'm pretty neutral on the topic anyway

[swift ledge]

You could do a lottery between two players who click on a single zone. 50/50. Then lock the zone, so nobody else can take it from the winner unless that person moves far away. There are many ways to fine tune this mechanic, imho.

You could also wait till the game is loaded for everyone, then do lotteries for everybody who wants to play a particular zone, then lock said zone. Repeat until everyone has picked a position.

That means including a command for disabling the regular lottery, with the setting being independently managed for each team. That way a premade team or a lobster bunch doing a random artistic interpretation can do a more fine grained placement.

A contrived example of how the lottery system could work:
Each zone is defined as a radius around a commander, so they don't depend on the map. It should be enough to secure the initial metal spots.

1. Players A, B, C, D and E load into the game, so there are 5 zones, one around each com: m, n, o, p, and q.
2. Players A, B and C want spot m, so they all lock there. Players D and E lock in n and o, respectively. Because nobody disputed their spawns, they're good to go.
3. Player A wins the lottery for zone m, and B and C get unlocked. They must pick another spawn.
4. Players B and C dispute p, and once both of them lock, B wins. Now C can spawn anywhere but the locked zones.
   Everybody was given a fair chance at getting a spot. Nobody got retroactively disputed, because once you lock in a zone without overlapping contesters and the round is over, the zone's yours.

This may be nightmarish to implement, but is the most fair system I could think of.

It also deals with people not locking by not letting them participate in the lottery, with a time limit.

[gilded plank]

The don’t spawn too close mechanic was introduced to prevent trolling. However an option to deactivate it in higher lobbies might further new meta development.

Lottery sounds fair

[small gulch]

Would maybe be nice to give everyone the option to select their most favorite spot to start (1) up to least (8) before match starts, then if there was no contest for your (1) spot you will get in, if it is contested it'll get randomly alotted to any of the contestors and they will move on to (2) desired spot, if that is contested, randomly lottery again up until all spots are filled.