#Mauser OP compared to Quaker

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fair spear
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mauser both cheaper, better dps and range and of course more HP; so 4 key features all better than its core counterpart

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@scenic stone tell me its not OP 😄 "BAR has non-linear balance?" ? 😄

mortal cape
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Not pertaining to this particular balance issue, conceptually, I think it's fine for one faction's unit to dominate the counterpart. Both sides have different advantages over the other.

I do think mausers dominate quakers but I don't see it as an issue.

fair spear
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also lower reload time which is better to aim and not waste shots !

scenic stone
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The unit have always been balanced that way, not really sure why. I think it has to do with cor having access to banishers and tremors, so they didn't need the light artillery as much, but that might not apply still

fair spear
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1 thing quaker has going for it is 64aoe vs 60 for mauser, but its tiny

scenic stone
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I could look into reworking the unit so that it has different strengths than the arm version to add some more faction asymmetry

fair spear
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yes please do

mortal cape
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Imo, it's not like the dolphin Vs supporter matchup that was recently addressed because in that case, those were the core units that were used to fight head-on in that part of the game.

cursive plover
charred thistle
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While the stats of mauser are better than quaker, it's not a very big difference, quaker still does its job well

rocky dawn
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Core has sheldons, so arm vehicle arty being better makes sense

charred thistle
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Sheldons aren't even that good once you know how to deal with them

hasty snow
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I disagree, sheldons very strong.

charred thistle
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Practically anything in the vehicle labs of either faction counters sheldons

hasty snow
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so does hounds? so ?

charred thistle
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Also hounds are cheaper and do more dps

hasty snow
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Ok, so whats your solution to it? making sheldons stronger will just increas sheldon spam

charred thistle
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I didn't say anything about making sheldons stronger

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Just pointing out that sheldons existing doesn't justify weaker t2 vehicle arty

hasty snow
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oh ok. yeah sure i can agree with that

charred thistle
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But even then, cor t2 vehicle arty is only marginally weaker

hasty snow
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i think what needs to be changed is core t2 veh lab be more useful.

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at this point its pretty much tiger lab

charred thistle
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I would say the only thing that could be done is either raise its dps and lower its speed so it's effectively "bigger gun" which is in flavor for cortex, or make it cheaper so it's "more gun"

dusk oriole
hasty snow
plain raptor
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As a cortex main, cortex vehicles make me sad.

charred thistle
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for general purpose banisher is way stronger

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also seeking missiles, the ability to hit air, and a large AoE

hasty snow
charred thistle
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cor vehicle lab is carried by tigers and banishers, they're the only things that are objectively strong, with the quaker being decent

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and the AA is really good, while the stealthy missile truck is just the same as arm's as far as i'm concerned

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but no consul, jaguar, or starlight hurts

plain raptor
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Biggest problem with cortex vehicles is the incisor, imo. That one unit is the biggest reason to never start cortex vehicles.

tall lintel
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Cor vehicles are kind of a meme but you can win a lot of games by rushing a tsar and walking it into the enemy base with grunt and aa support

hasty snow
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tbh, i heard about this legendary tsar push since i start playing this game few months ago. never saw it working tho

charred thistle
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you only make 1 tzar

tall lintel
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I actually do it reasonably often, with generally pretty good success. The big thing is that tzar absolutely destroys hounds and porc

charred thistle
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and you need to be a techer that's going t2 cor vehicles, rush out 1 tzar, then reclaim the lab

charred thistle
tall lintel
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tzar has much larger aoe, much higher rate of fire, and i think same range

hasty snow
charred thistle
tall lintel
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yea, as a front player, before getting t2 mexes even (requires very high metal maps)

hasty snow
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gib replay i want to see it

charred thistle
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ok, fatboy only has 50 more range

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and tzar has the advantage of being like 30% faster

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but i think the fatboy turret turn rate is better than the tzars but don't quote me on that

tall lintel
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tsars are like, infinitely better than fatboys

tall lintel
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But seriously, it is very very hard to stop an early, supported tsar. Tsars are actually good, unlike fatboys

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^that was where i learned tsar basically cannot be stopped by hounds

hasty snow
tall lintel
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i was the one who gave him the tsar tho

hasty snow
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i know you did, but that player in front of panda had no idea how to play xdddd

tall lintel
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tru

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tbh i wasnt really paying attention in the other one either, its entirely possible that it was just glass abusing a new player too lmao

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i only paid attention when i had to try to fight the tsars

hasty snow
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just looking at 6 min mark yeah glass will abuse the new player

tall lintel
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and regardless of the skill of the players, the point i was trying to make is that it is very hard to stop a tsar without fusion eco armies, which i think is demonstrated in the replays even if it is not all high skill gameplay

hasty snow
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well the oponent team is struggling to stop glass 1 vs 3 atm, 12 min mark

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i think its important to take into consideration the ability of the oponents

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glass rekt 2 players by 12 min mark solo, and was stopped when 4th player joined and now is doing t2 lab

tall lintel
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I mean a good player will beat a bad player always, but i guess what I'm trying to say is that there's a reason a good player may choose to use a tsar to push their advantage rather than something else

hasty snow
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well, as a counter argument he could built tremor and finished them off too xd
they lost before tsar were on the field tbh

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yeah but i can agree they look decent vs hounds

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i just dont know why would you built it when you can built bot lab that has more useful units, and just spam few sheldons which will be safe until t2 arma veh comes out or snipers and u can munch away at their frontline constantly. tzar just looks like ez dgun material to me

tall lintel
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i mean price of tsar is just what, 4 sheldons. Tsar does way more damage than 4 sheldons

plain raptor
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I imagine that a tzar won’t miss a cloaked comm.

tall lintel
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But sheldons have much more range obviously. But you may want to build tsar when you have a clear early advantage, because tsar will be able to push much harder and faster early

hasty snow
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i disagree, early sheldon push would be as deadly tbh

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and you dont have engineers that can help built your mexes, like iin botlab

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so you built your econ slower

plain raptor
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Depends what the other guy is using. A tzar is gonna wipe out mass thugs or rockets real quick.

tall lintel
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med tank armies too. Med tank armies can threaten sheldons quite well

hasty snow
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how good is vs bulls ?

charred thistle
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not that good i'd say

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bulls can flank and have good damage

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there's also not that many of them so the tzar can't take advantage of AoE

tall lintel
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idk, never tried. if I had to choose 1 tsar vs 2 bulls (as in if I were making an army) I'd pick the tsar, but in masses bulls probably better

hasty snow
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well i still feel not having engineers in the lab just gimps your econ too hard

tall lintel
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yea its definitely a very big downside of core veh

hasty snow
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if you have to go backward to your base and built all your mexes you are pretty fucked

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so yeah we are back to square one, core veh is gimped and needs a major rework.

plain raptor
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It’s not quite that bad, incisor needs a general buff, quaker needs a range buff, and they need a vehicle engineer.

hasty snow
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tremor needs rework

charred thistle
hasty snow
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isnt the new corforge fixing that?

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with flame?

tall lintel
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yeah imo tsar is kind of a great example of what core veh is good for, pushing early advantages. banishers are so op before 20 mins in the game, tsar rush same. like core t2 veh is best lab in the game between 10 and 20 mins. But it really hurts if you dont win in those 10 mins

hasty snow
plain raptor
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That wasn’t supposed to be a reply

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A rezzer that can actually take a few hits would be a heck of a unit

hasty snow
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what veh needs is anti spam, like jaguars in armada, otherwise your tanks die to constant spam of ticks

plain raptor
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Change the tiger’s gun to a laser perhaps?

charred thistle
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cor in general has a weak late t2 / early t3

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the only time their early t3 is strong is if they're the first to get t3

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and catapults

plain raptor
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Or heck, give the tiger or tzar an anti-infantry gun of some sort. A tzar with an light laser so tickspam doesn’t work.

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Or buff the pounder somehow so it doesn’t instantly die on a T2 battlefield.

hasty snow
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dunno but i think we derailed the mauser vs quaker suggestion, sorry OP

dusk oriole
plain raptor
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Banishers oneshot a lot of units, so that’s not nothing.

charred thistle
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banisher is a good generalist unit, it's got decent movement speed, good damage, it's gun can rotate like 270°

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it's not paper on wheels

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good AoE, can target air

cursive plover
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starlight has slower turning turret and is very dependant on energy production to work

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for AA the banisher works rather well
the star light struggles in far more ways there

lunar girder
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banisher is a very good unit, people are sleeping on it if they think only the tiger is good from the cortex T2 vehs

plain raptor
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I’d much rather use tanks+arty if I could, but quakers just don’t have enough range to fight snipers.

cursive plover
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quakers are dirt cheap compared to snipers
they only need to get 2 or 3 shots off for there to be meaninful damage done to snipers

lunar girder
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mauser and quaker are very similar, yes the mauser is very slightly better but both of them do the same job and you can consider them interchangeable mostly. Vs snipers it can go either way depending on positioning, jammers, terrain, numbers...

plain raptor
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Or I could go arm and have artillery that actually do significantly out range snipers.

cursive plover
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your only talking about a range difference of 25
which is very un meaningful

charred thistle
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mausers only have 25 range on quakers

cursive plover
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thats smaller than the width of the LLT

lunar girder
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there are minor differences in strength between mirrored units like Thug > Mace by actually 11% more HP which matters far more than the tiny range difference on quaker/mauser

dusk oriole
lunar girder
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yes the banisher is quite good as AA as well

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good range, damage, AOE, very effective generalist unit, more of a skirmisher than the Tiger

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you want to fire and then disengage during reload and then when ready, get in range and fire again, rinse and repeat