unreal prism
Moving this from #🔩｜dev-main to here to avoid clutter.
@stable plover @fast mauve
It isn't the first shot that actually bothers me it's the 2nd and 3rd.
The trajectory on the first photo shows it may go over the head of the first pawn, but pawns 2 and 3 should probably be dead. At least from the point of view from the last screenshot, which was my current player view, the dgun just whiffed.
I will mark the start of the third screenshots w a ping
(more screenshots momentarily)
Especially that one that is literally eating the barrel of the dgun, that should hit.
https://bar-rts.com/replays/8f855d647fe60fd7b14c75a6c27ccb9d
This is the replay for people curious.
You mentioned I should aim better, particularly at the ground - I clearly was not aiming at the sky, maybe the mountain messed up the shot by having it fire higher than it should've, but I purposefully aimed between the grunts to try and hit all three, because the dgun hitbox normally works like that.
Saying yourself "the bloom is very strong" bloom isn't turned on here, that's all the dgun's own effects - unless you are specifying it's effects in particular.
There isn't anything wrong with the hitboxes if you want them to be that insanely precise, but imo either the effect needs to be scaled back to represent the hitbox, or the dgun hitbox needs to be bigger.
fast mauve
needed info
the models themselves are not hitboxes as they can be defined in a number of ways
the projectile for the dun can easily go over a ton of units normally this occurs with flash(blitz)
there is always some amount of bloom applied to the dgun projectile regardless
the dgun projectile is roughly 4 elmos sphere
unreal prism
I am aware that it can go over units, particularly blitz, I've heard about that happening.
This is an incredibly misleading effect. This pawn in particularly, like I said, is absolutely getting soaked by this blast, from many different angles.
You seem incredibly defensive about this, other people in dev-main mentioned it seems a bit sketchy and players I've shown it to also think it's a bit jank that this missed.
I like that there is height, physics, etc. I like that hitboxes are finely tuned. I like that I can miss here - but the fx is clearly showing these as hits, as well as the player angle, I don't really think it's unreasonable to raise some concern about this and talk to your other peers that mentioned it seems a bit off about possibly changing it instead of stonewalling me and others.
stable plover
needed info
the models themselves are not hitboxes as they can be defined in a n...
There's a possible issue related to the commander rework affecting dgun
I'm not saying that's the case, but something to check
cc @ember dragon @vast saffron
vast saffron
There is 100% definitely an issue if the comupdate modoption is enabled (the "Commander Update option in the experimental tab), but if the option is off, this problem shouldn't be present
stable plover
Ok, thank you for clarification
unreal prism
I am pretty sure it was off on this game, it wasn't my lobby but I usually notice if these things are on.
I don't know if you can check that in the replay or not.
stable plover
Yeah
vast saffron
Yep, that's the one, and it's definitely off
ember dragon
phew, didn't break anything
unreal prism
So to clarify does that mean there is or is not a problem 😂
stable plover
I really don't know then. Only way to be really sure is to draw the projectile volume and the hitboxes, looks from a certain angle and ascertain their intersection
ember dragon
afaik drivver did and found everything to be OK
stable plover
If you feel there is a bug, you should be able to reproduce it locally. do /cheat /give 10 armpw and reproduce the case
unreal prism
Well it seems like Drivver did do this, there is a screenshot in the thread, I'm thinking that the effects here and the normal angle people play it make it feel a bit misleading when you miss shots like this.
fast mauve
i dont see any changes in commits about any changes from me
for the hitbox here
if this was an issue it would of been known a long time ago\
stable plover
I'll defer the analysis of the issue to the people that know better than me, just wanted to be sure this comupdate thing was looked at. Again, if you feel there's something wrong you can reproduce with the steps above
If you're adamant there's an issue the better way to have visibility is to create a github issue
fast mauve
i didnt see anything mechanically wrong
stable plover
Cool, thank you
fast mauve
the only thing possibly considering is to make the dgun projectile bigger than 4 elmos
unreal prism
Not saying there is something mechanically wrong here I'm just trying to convey that to the average player the effect and not necessarily the hitbox makes these appear to be kills, the hit boxes didn't intersect which is totally cool - there is precision at work here. The animation/particle/fx/whatever you want to call it is touching the pawns, I think a bit too much for it to feel like it should miss.
I also think that the reticle for the dgun itself would probably intersect with the pawns, especially with how how everything is in motion. You lead your shot so that, presumably, as the pawns move they will walk into the dgun hitbox.
stable plover
Not saying there is something mechanically wrong here I'm just trying to convey ...
dgun has always been finicky, depending on where you target ground it will fire with elevation, same shit depending on commander elevation etc
unreal prism
Other than it possibly going over these should all be kills - firing directly at my feet did kill them.
I am going to atg to try and recreate it there.
unreal prism
On atg if I aim at the side of the mountain in pretty much the same configuration it goes over - for both shots.
Okay, different proposition then - afaik, there isn't an indicator whether or not something will actually be hit by the dgun other than this reticle.
Making those units flash or something would be good - as well as providing a better indication of height (Like maybe the higher it is aimed, the reticle changes from red-yellow, or a much more contrasting color like blue?)
That would help, at least for me, alleviate some of the gripes I have with how this turned out.
There is a bit of a skill issue on my end - but I think that it's a lot more intensive to be aiming at the base of the commander than it is to be aiming further away from him, since changes in firing path will be more drastic the closer you are to the center of the circle. I'd feel less mislead if there was more clear indication of whether or not a shot will go over it's target or not, those mountains robbed me of winning that engagement and possibly the game :P
stable plover
If the dgun projectile is not a semi-infinite plane as the indication above would tell, but instead a cylinder it should draw a cylinder
You can request a feature for that and discuss the pros and cons
vast saffron
With the Commander Update enabled, DGun projectiles will now hug the ground once they've hit the ground, so units can't hide in a valley
Not that this affects the DGun weapon type, so includes Behemoths
But as mentioned earlier, the Commander Update breaks the projectile volume, so with it enabled a shot one molecule off will completely miss
Giving the projectile a cylindrical volume downwards so it can't go over units' heads would be one way of dealing with this, but it would have... interesting... effects when targeting an aircraft
stable plover
putting a straightjacket on to not engage in commander role/weapon discussions
unreal prism
Giving the projectile a cylindrical volume downwards so it can't go over units' ...
I am fine with the projectile - I just want the UI to better reflect what will or will not be hit. So an indication of height as well as units within the aiming reticle flashing to indicate they are being targeted would alleviate some of this.
Also; presuming that the Comupdate gets fixed - will that be implemented as a core feature or remain toggleable?
stable plover
tl;dr: everything is a mess, but people still derive fun from the current design/behavior, you can accept it for what it is and attempt to request a small quality of life improvement (like the indicator). Or you can engage in endless commander redesign discussions
vast saffron
The Commander Update will be integrated as the core game after testing and working out the bugs
unreal prism
tl;dr: everything is a mess, but people still derive fun from the current design...
I chose the latter. (jk)
unreal prism
The Commander Update will be integrated as the core game after testing and worki...
Okay, will dgun have any verticality afterwards or will it only be able to target ground units?
Also @fast mauve ya'll are working hard, I apologize if I seemed very accusatory or aggro.
fast mauve
all good
i only care about mechincal correctness btw
i dont touch graphics at al
unreal prism
That is valid 🫡
Also let me rephrase that - I apologize for being accusatory and aggro because I was tbh.
