#Combomb shouldnt blow up other coms that are at 100% HP

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

thorn aurora
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Crucial information missing: the maximum HP of your commander.

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I would also recommend to give a different Anti-Air weapon.

thorn aurora
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100% kill

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After D-gunning:

violet flint
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it had xp of 11.99 with additional 231% health

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congratz!

thorn aurora
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And?

violet flint
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Chad!

thorn aurora
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It was my last Commander.

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This is why you should not mislead those poor newbies.

violet flint
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oh

thorn aurora
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Had this happened in a PvP, I bet my opponent would have been raging.

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And rightfully so.

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After so much misinformation.

cosmic juniper
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be honest, have you ever seen a comduel after a com dguns a t3?

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this mechanic is super rare

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ok I understand that dgunning t3 isnt the only way to get exp

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but have you ever seen a high exp level com dgun another com?

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it just doesnt happen

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so yes, in theory it can happen

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however, if you try to tell new players of every single possible situation and the mechanic for it, you will lose their interest 99% of the time

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like if I played League of Legends and I asked how a certain champion's ultimate worked, I would probably be disinterested from learning the rest of the game if they sent me a long wall of text describing their ability's use and what interesting things you can make them do when around a tower, by one enemy, by 5 enemies, in the bush, and so on.

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its just too much

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and the chance that I am ever in a situation where I need to advance on this enemy then they pull off some weird glitch looking maneuver that can only be pulled off under super precise circumstances is very low

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so I will learn it when I have played the game a bit more

stuck fable
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Com bombing hasn't been an issue for decades. Still isn't. Dgunning a com on the other hand might be interesting if it did 20% of max hp or reduced their hp to 20%. Or, offered a crowd control if hitting a commander. Like a 2 second root/snare.

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Adding tactical mechanics rather than removing them, and streamlining this concept into easily understandable and practical applications, is ideal in an rts. Units provide a function, and this function is soft capped. There are dozens of units at any given tech level with several applications of their niche, each. Making the commander have 19 special functions seems a little over complicated, as goopy said.

tepid glacier
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dgun doing a small amount of damage doesnt feel right

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either it should do lethal damage or nothing

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comm duels being a spam of who dguns more would be weird

stuck fable
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It instant kills the player who dguns the opposing com. This is a self elimination in 1v1. Adjusting this for com vs com seems reasonable.

keen bane
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supcoms limitations are, if i recall correctly: higher cost in energy to dgun, reduced but still accentuated damage against commander units, commander explosion doing less damage than theoretical max undamaged commander health, cooldown on dgun use. now I'm not saying any of those or all of them are the universal answer, but they're examples of mechanics that happen in other games with VERY similar mechanics to stop instant com on com dgun assassination

thorn aurora
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It is as simple as this:
Generally: if you destroy a enemy Commander, it explodes violently, and the explosion deals a certain amount of damage, depending on the distance. (Commanders receive different damage.)

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And then you explain the special scripted events.

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But back to the topic.

stuck fable
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When the mechanic has three different outcomes under special circumstances which may not be repeatable by anyone under the best players, consistently... let alone considered in an actual game during a face-off between the Frontline... I dunno, I think goofy is right. I bet most people aren't even aware there are rules to these situations, right now. Under a less complicated system.

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Sorry. I'll shhh

thorn aurora
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When the mechanic has three different outcomes under special circumstances
What mechanic?

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Exactly.

stuck fable
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Com dying at range not killing another com due to damage mitigation/falloff.

Dgun

Self d

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Those mechanics.

thorn aurora
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Exactly, those are 2 different mechanics.

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You have to explain each separately.

stuck fable
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And most don't understand those three different scenarios of the com explosion, right now.

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Or rather, aren't aware of them. To your point... they could also be explained.

thorn aurora
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Because the crappy explanations everyone made so far. Everyone seems to believe that they are connected.

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Blame Floris.

stuck fable
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Lol damn you Floris!!!!

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Anyway I'll shh

thorn aurora
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So. Back to topic.
To those who say reducing commanderexplosion damage against other commanders "removes complexity from the game":

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You are just afraid that it, in fact, makes the game, and the strategic decisions more complex.

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Currently keeping a commander alive (with the exception of the last one of the team, of course) has minimal value.

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Just look at the situation, that the OP posted.

stuck fable
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Sorry, but I disagree. In 2v2 3v3 and 4v4, a commander is huge. It's a Frontliner with high dps and anti air. It repairs, builds a fallback line, reclaims... and has an hp pool that is solid for the first 12 minutes of the game. It's literally the best unit you have, outside of an 8v8.

thorn aurora
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I was going to suggest to further increase its combat potential.

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And to replace D-gun with something else. (a not "instant-kill everything" weapon)

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If you check SupCom games, even casual PvP players always push with their commanders, despite the greater consequences of losing it.

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On land maps, that is.

thorn aurora
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If 1-1 Commanders are destroyed on each side in the engagement, reclaiming both wrecks may be is even more worthwhile than having the Commander alive.

stuck fable
thorn aurora
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And when I watch[...]
I rarely spectate.

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However, you have brought up an unrelated topic.

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There are other (and better) ways to secure the wrecks, especially if you have not forgotten to bring some constructors along.

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What do you do if another enemy Commander shows up to contest?

stuck fable
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Make turrets, poke with my commander laser, commander+any unit reinforcing, etc. I don't think it's unrelated, because these are the actions leading up to a combomb. Events in this game aren't black and white. There are circumstances which lead to these outcomes that vary between skill levels of players and game size. That said, these changes if in the event they go through(which it looks like they will) will ALSO change the interaction between player decisions and the outcomes they're intended to serve. This happens to be one of those cases. What might be intended to be a balance for a com explosion in an 8v8 isn't exactly an issue in any game mode outside of that. You won't see many, if any, com sac's for metal in a 2v2, unless it's on the frontline, and it's due to combat scenarios that have a winner and a loser.
Buffing the commanders HP to address the idea that coms are too weak or die too easy to a combomb is a solid option. But reducing the effect of a nearly 30 year old mechanic that is arguably THE unique footprint of this game that most think about when they remember when they had fun in this game(and it's sister/parent game)... Is most likely the commander. Now small changes like explosion radius damage falloff i don't think ruins this. And it may even be healthy enough a change to implement. I haven't tested it, so I don't know, and I trust my peers with more skill will make a good decision. So I suppose I'm just voicing concerns that we don't over complicate, and/or remove tactics. Complexity and strategy are not the same thing. Adding strategy adds to the overall complexity. Adding hidden mechanics is not strategy. Especially if those hidden factors make the most important unit you have, more expendable.

thorn aurora
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But reducing the effect of a nearly 30 year old mechanic
I didn't know BAR is alredy 30 years old... I thought it is about 7.5.
And it is alredy reduced to 0 under certain circumstances.

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Make turrets, poke with my commander laser, commander+any unit reinforcing, etc. I don't think it's unrelated, because these are the actions leading up to a combomb. Events in this game aren't black and white.
To put it simply: you combomb, or you get combombed.

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See 1st post. If you ever get in laser range, your commander is doomed, unless your opponent makes a mistake, or it has enough XP.

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Adding hidden mechanics is not strategy.
Such as mo_preventcombomb?

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Buffing the commanders HP to address the idea that coms are too weak or die too easy to a combomb is a solid option
That has a similar effect as reducing commanderexplosion damage vs commanders...

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I don't think it's unrelated
Unrelated to: #1072638250268770414 message
As getting the reclaim makes the loss of the Commander negligible. From that metal I could easily replace all the functions the Commander itself had (buildpower, firepower).
I did not say the Commander has no functions at all.

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It seems to me that you just want to conform to both sides in this argument. (Reduce combomb damage vs. Do not reduce combomb damage)

stuck fable
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Yes. Balancing and changing things has impact on the positive and negative side of things. I'm not conforming, I'm citing examples and anecdotes where one result is beneficial and others it may not be. As I've stated what I think many times, i don't feel i need to, anymore. for the sake of not getting into word by word breakdowns with you, draining my life, on the nitpicking.

I'll say, though, that it does seem like we're reducing strategic options, not adding to them. Which the game certainly doesn't need, and if you feel it's not confusing, while also suggesting i'm contradicting myself, not understanding the argument and everything I'm saying is wrong, then, I suppose you're pointing out just how unintuitive this change is. And I suppose there's a nuance here that requires a sort of back and forth to sus out the overall value of the most important unit in the game. After all, we're not talking about a grunt. We're talking about the unit that represents us on the battlefield. There is a back and forth I'm weighing in my mind, on this. Persuasive discussion will change my mind. Komposer (and others) actually suggested the best changes, I think, which would work as far as I'd consider any changes.. Which is, 4500 hp, 1800m wreck and 10% reduced radius on self D, 5% increase on combat related deaths. And a Dgun change that gives a commander a bodyblock, where there is no passthrough. This is a near idea I'd love to see. Dodgeball is a decent sport.

thorn aurora
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Just say what do you want, then.

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Reduce, or not reduce

stuck fable
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I did. cheers

thorn aurora
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We're talking about the unit that represents us on the battlefield.
#1072638250268770414 message

stuck fable
# thorn aurora Just say what do you want, then.

PRO_AlKoHoLiK — Yesterday at 12:59 PM
Having read most of this, I thought I'd suggest, maybe if a commander is revived, the resource generation is removed. Blowing com making an impact on early economy, being a choice that benefits early, but if revived reduces the long term resource gain. May also lower game durations as a result, in terms of the victory condition of resurrecting simply to have it sit cloaked, and still benefit on a metal trickle.

I think increasing the HP is ultimately the best bang-for-buck change, along side dgun not killing another commander. Reducing HP to 20% instead of 20% damage dealt, could also be something to consider.

In TA for example, game ends(for player) was by default. I wonder if instead of a player continuing to play without their commander, in a 'continues' setting, for teams... What if the commander dying to enemy fire auto transfers the remaining base to the next player down the list, or closest proximity player(s), or even random distribution. Something to maybe explore? Possibly even making it so reviving a commander brings that player back into the game, offering an alert to teammates to revive the commander to bring your ally back into control. That said, you'd maybe need an opt-out prompt for players who have died to click to distribute their base to allies, or wait for revive. This would be a cool interaction, I think.

That said, I think incentives for forward commander usage is much better than anything else. Especially the build power increase over time, idea. goopy for example, plays his commander close to the front line, and it's more entertaining. A forward commander risks itself, but with an HP buff, we'd certainly see more players using them up front. And this may also result in more com deaths, which I'd think helps progress the game along faster, as a biproduct.

PRO_AlKoHoLiK — Today at 1:50 AM
Com bombing hasn't been an issue for decades. Still isn't.

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Anyway... o7

thorn aurora
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Since it is in the title of the topic, I though ~~ we~~ the two of us mainly talk about commanderexplosion vs Commanders...

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You can see, commanderexplosion has 2 different damage values.

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Deliberate combombs against normal units only are rarer, and I don't see much issue with that either...

mortal gate
stuck fable
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Smoove. Follow suit.

radiant summit
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Ta com explosion was like the whole screen if I recall

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miss TA's dgun sound vs. BAR's nerfed version 😛

thorn aurora
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too.

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Your argument is invalid.