Warden love: Melee Warden

[marsh mirage]

I feel like the stack system on Warden is generally fine as it is. It’s a bit clunky at times, and more often than not I find myself sitting at 5 stacks, just waiting for my spells to come off cooldown so I can actually spend them. That’s part of why I’ve really enjoyed playing melee 1H Warden, there’s something satisfying about watching the melee swings land while waiting for my abilities.

That said, I do think Ancestor's Rage could benefit from a cooldown reduction, ideally down to 7 seconds. This would help mitigate overcapping on stacks, and more importantly, it would let us fit two casts into the 14-second buff window of Torrent of Spirits. Ancestor’s Rage is easily our hardest-hitting ability, but compared to what most DPS classes are putting out, it still doesn’t feel like a ton of damage.

Still, I think that’s okay. Warden shines in 5-man content, and it doesn’t necessarily need top-tier burst to feel impactful in that environment.

My opener is down below, along with a video to help illustrate it. It might not be the most damage-efficient opener out there, but it works wonders on high-level targets where sustain and timing matter more than pure burst. There may be some weapon clipping issues in the rotation, still smoothing those out; but overall the warden fantasy feels great.

Also, keep in mind that I’m still missing several key pieces of gear that would help maximize damage output, including the level 40 set from BoC and a DLP weapons. So this isn’t the full potential of the build, just using what i have right now.

@acoustic knoll

[acoustic knoll]

Do you usually hold casting your Shock for when you have at least three stacks?

[marsh mirage]

Ideally yes, but when i do long grinds, i switch between the two, because monkey brain

Cleanse spirit gives a stack, not sure if its intended tho

So I use it in my opener and when i'm missing stacks

[acoustic knoll]

I find myself often waiting for Spirit Strike to come off cooldown when I am waiting for other shit to come off of cooldown; and sometimes it happens because I'm not at enough stacks to get full damage out of Shock.

I feel like the Spirit Strike proc idea i pushed earlier would give it just enough "Oo, glowy button!" Dopamine, and help smooth out the stacks.

I usually use the heal in my opener. Typically if I need it it's by the end of its cooldown, so entering the fight by using that and the mana tap, followed immediately by Shock and Rage while I'm running up, hits hard. Then I can start the melee rotation, and that's usually where I find myself waiting.

[marsh mirage]

using rage right away is a dps loss i think

[acoustic knoll]

I don't like waiting, tbh. I hate not having buttons to push. Using Cleanse Spirit for the stack is a good idea, I don't do that. Though if it's unintended, idk.

[marsh mirage]

because of 10% stat boost of torrent of spirits

[acoustic knoll]

I typed that wrong, I use Blast first

Admittedly I rarely use Torrent.

[marsh mirage]

Blast>torrent>rage

[marsh mirage]

Big mistake imo xD

[acoustic knoll]

10% stats is nice, but the this is where I start to run into stack issues.

Flowing through those three abilities in that priority order feels sooooo much worse than the same 3 spender priority with Crusader.

Because Warden gets fewer stacks. I think the thing I'm missing here, is allies. I have been an Iron this whole time and only play solo. You can cheese it a teeny bit with a pet, but that positioning aspect is annoying when the pet moves or the ability decides to fire off in the wrong direction. I've gotten better at managing that, and it's been improved, but it still happens.

[marsh mirage]

Are you using a pet?

Pet gives you stacks on lifeburst, if it hits said pet

[acoustic knoll]

I know. See above.

[marsh mirage]

Oh sorry, I have monkey brain 🐒

[acoustic knoll]

Lol all good. I didn't specifically call out the ability name. But it's what I meant.

[marsh mirage]

Idk, i'm having too much stacks all the time

In parties it's even worse, but in solo? Still overcapping

[acoustic knoll]

Yeah that's a different experience than what I've been having. Do you use Cleanse Spirit off cooldown?

[marsh mirage]

Most of the times yes

[acoustic knoll]

Okay. So that's definitely the biggest difference.

My damage experience would be better if I changed my spender priority. But that wouldn't affect my stacks.

[marsh mirage]

Unless the monster have a debuff that i'd want to cleanse

[acoustic knoll]

It is also definitely intended that it gives a stack, it's in the description.

[marsh mirage]

I meaaaaaan

Most spells are lying to us

for an example

torrent says its a 8 sec buff

it's a 14

spirit shocks don't tell us it silences the target if used at 3 stacks

[acoustic knoll]

Tbh having my purge be a mandatory part of my rotation feels kinda bad; I want it to be there to use when I need it. I guess the cooldown is short enough that it might not matter. I'll have to try that when I have time to play.

Side note. I still think my proc idea would give the class extra fun, help bridge the damage to other dps classes a little without breaking the hybrid line entirely. It would also resolve my issue with the Purge.

If the intention is to use Cleanse Spirit off cooldown as a core part of the experience to have stacks to reach intended flow with the stacks and spenders, then fine. I just don't necessarily like it lol

[acoustic knoll]

Yeah, like half the tooltips are wrong for most classes. The damage increase on Shock isn't 100% either.

Even if the proposed Spirit Strike proc didn't make it grant extra stacks; maybe it's just a damage increase. Biggus Bonkus.

[marsh mirage]

I like your take on warden too. There is a bit of a difference on how we like our wardens it seems like, but eh? Can have both?

I'm leaning into enhance shaman with 1-handers, while you like 2h

[acoustic knoll]

I want vanilla Enhance with 2handers

Nothing feels better than a 2 handed Stormstrike proccing into a big ass Windfury chain

I would love it if augments for Warden leaned into specializing them to dual wield or two handed. Like. Let us pick. Maybe with an elemental change for each set. Air for dw, lightning for 2h.

[marsh mirage]

I do think resetting rage would be easier for the player overall, given it don't break the melee swingers meanwhile spirit strike does

[acoustic knoll]

Por que no los dos?

Attacks with weapon have chance to reset Spirit Strike. Spirit Strike is briefly enhanced (damage or extra stack), and when you use Enhanced Spirit Strike it has a high-ish chance to reset CD on Ancestral Rage.

If the proc enhancement to Spirit Strike were a damage increase, it wouldn't feel bad to pause your AA to use it.

[marsh mirage]

True actually

[acoustic knoll]

Call the enhancement Building Rage

[marsh mirage]

The problem right now, in it's current state of the game, a 2h wisdom dlp weapon don't have the dopamine proc like a 2h str weapon does

I'm hoping they'll add more wisdom 1h and 2h alike

With warden is mind

[acoustic knoll]

Using all strength gear is also hurting me on Warden

And not having leveled my cooking to be able to make good Wis food.

I've been debating switching to medium armor. And honestly just using a Staff as a 2h weapon at melee range didn't feel terrible.

[marsh mirage]

medium is better in my opinion

[obtuse osprey]

I know an excellent chef who could make you a stack The fact that warden str build is a thing feels a bit weird to me

[marsh mirage]

I can show you my build rn in terms of items after reset

[acoustic knoll]

My Spirit Strike on a high roll hits harder than Ancestral Rage on a medium or lower roll in all Strength everything.

[marsh mirage]

Should never be the case

[acoustic knoll]

I'm officially being reborn as a new man with more brittle bones today. No more Iron for me. I'll be anemic like the rest of you.

[marsh mirage]

I should test it out on a 2h str weapon

[marsh mirage]

Because if this is true, it's bonkers

[acoustic knoll]

I'm in Tier 6 Heavy Armor with strength enchantments using a strength 6.5 2h for reference.

My strength is much higher than my wisdom on Warden. Spirit Strike scales off of both.

Ancestral Rage only scales off Wisdom.

So AA and Spirit Strike are the greatest part of my damage.

[marsh mirage]

More tests are required

[acoustic knoll]

I want this strength build to be a thing tbh. It's what inspired my Spirit Strike proc idea lol. I'll be testing some rotational changes later, with Cleansing Spirit and such. And I think it's time I catch my LW up to my Smithing.

[marsh mirage]

I feel like if spirit strike hits for as much as my rage, it'll be total bonkers o.O

So it'll be fun to see

[acoustic knoll]

But in my set up, your Rage will hit for way less

That's the thing.

[marsh mirage]

Yeah but spirit strike has lower cooldown

[acoustic knoll]

You'll have much less wisdom and Rages damage is significantly lower. Spirit Strike gains a good bit of damage, but I think you'll find it worse than your wisdom leather set up.

That's my semi-educated guess.

I'm sad I'm stuck at work lol

[marsh mirage]

I will test it out in a bit, might even record it too

I do feel like something with rage in it's name should also scale off str too :x

[acoustic knoll]

Let me know what you find. I'd love to be able to keep using heavy armor and a 2hander but admittedly your set up looks like it flows way smoother, and faster.

[marsh mirage]

Using the opener i did with heavy is less dmg

[acoustic knoll]

Unsurprised lol

[marsh mirage]

It's a tad bit better with 2h weapon, with med gear

[acoustic knoll]

Because of how Angered Spirits affects weapon damage scaling, and how it doesn't buff your offhand, two hand should do better damage in general.

But I get dual wield auto attacks feeling better.

Unsurprisingly having more Wisdom is better...I'll miss my Grove Paladin lol

[marsh mirage]

full str build

medium with 2h str weapon

Plus wearing heavy as a warden in content such as BoC gimps you on the last boss

It won't allow you to survive a mechanic, unless you put on things with extra con on them

Because of warden's lack of a defensive

[marsh mirage]

Having rage scale off str might do the trick....?

I'd need 3 prisms to study this more. Need 2h str dlp weapon and one more 1h

[acoustic knoll]

I still stand by the proc for Spirit Weapon tbh. I don't think making the classes main nuke scale off of Strength instead of its main stat would be ideal, and making it scale off both would probably be op. Idk. Maybe that could be balanced.

[marsh mirage]

I don't think it would be op, would have to see the numbers

Because rn wardens dmg is not really good

[acoustic knoll]

Honestly if they were gonna do that, all of Wardens abilities should have hybrid scaling.

[dusty vale]

yeah warden damage is poop

[marsh mirage]

Yeah that's low-key what I was thinking

[dusty vale]

its sustain is alright

but most classes have enough sustain whit just bt

[acoustic knoll]

The sustain is great but it doesn't beat out the poor damage in most cases.

You don't win the war of attrition with it

[dusty vale]

Yeah and you never need that much

Any other class has alot of sustain because bt and high damage

[marsh mirage]

Mhm, hence why i think my suggestion would allow warden to burst a little bit more, while not changing a lot

because rn, our biggest hitter goes around 1.8 to 2k dmg with my gear. On a 18 sec cooldown

To compare to the extreme, my paladin hits for 6k and it has a 5 sec cooldown

[acoustic knoll]

There's a reason I stopped using Warden except for where I needed the crazy sustain 😅 even at lower level gear tiers, these issues are still present. If not worse.

[marsh mirage]

It's the reason why i keep playing warden ngl

I see the potential it has, and hoping i can provide info that'll it gets its fair share of love

[acoustic knoll]

I see it shining in group content which before today I haven't been able to do. And the sustain combined with some clever kiting let's you pull some shit when soloing. But it just feels worse to play than other options I have because of the damage.

Once I force the changes in my rotation I suspect my stack issues will be resolved. Then the damage would be my biggest complaint.

I always keep it and my 2h switch on me though, because I like it that much. I just usually default back to Crusader or Guardian.

[dusty vale]

I group content suffers from the same issues

Why ever have a warden

If you got a healer and tank you just need dps

Warden isnt a healer, tank or dps

Its just bad

[acoustic knoll]

I see the main benefit being for short-manning content, but given that I am only very recently able to do group content, I don't know admittedly.

[marsh mirage]

With a lil dps bump it can work wonders in group content, just need that bump

😫

[dusty vale]

probaly still gonna be outclassed by actualy good dps options: brawler, ass, shadowblade and ele

[marsh mirage]

Mhm, think so too, just trying to think of a way where it can contribute somehow. Perhaps add 15% int and wisdom to it's buff x.x

[acoustic knoll]

@marsh mirage Even in heavy armor still (Medium is way behind Heavy), just incorporating Cleanse Spirit into my active rotation made a world of difference. Man this mofo is thirsty though.

[marsh mirage]

because lack of wisdom :x

But yeah, its a thing easy to look over ngl

[acoustic knoll]

Yup, that would do it. I'm kinda working on my LW. I just want 30 Heavy Armor before I switch to mostly playing Warden again, and Medium.

[marsh mirage]

Will you go stick or 2x 1handers?

[acoustic knoll]

Definitely 2h for Warden.

[marsh mirage]

I think i have a spare dragons embrace if you want it, you aren't ironman anymore right?

[acoustic knoll]

There's no real mechanical benefit to the dual wielders since faster attack speed has zero benefit

Correct. What is that?

[marsh mirage]

level 30 magic staff

drops from LoE

[acoustic knoll]

Do you think a staff would be better than a strength 2h? Doesn't your Spirit Strike hit piddly with no strength? I, admittedly, keep getting conflicted info about how exactly Warden scales stat wise, so I honestly don't know lmao

I did experiment with a staff for a while, leveled my Magic skill up a bit. How much would you want for it? I'd love to try it, and it'd give me motivation to level the skill.

[marsh mirage]

Honestly I don't know, i suck at math

[acoustic knoll]

I just need the raw numbers lmao

[marsh mirage]

But I do think that wisdom feels way better

Or a mix of em

[acoustic knoll]

Greener linked me this level 35 scythe that uses magic instead of melee a while back

That staff would be an excellent stepping stone, because that'd be the goal if I'm gonna rock 2h

[marsh mirage]

Oh yeah, i have that

[acoustic knoll]

It requires Magic for the skill req, but doesn't it still use Strength? But with Wisdom and casting speed n shit?

Because that should be, math wise, like...the perfect weapon for Warden.

[marsh mirage]

you mean the lifeblood something, something right?

[acoustic knoll]

Lifeblood Reaper?

Sound right?

[marsh mirage]

This you mean?

[acoustic knoll]

YES. That's so god damn good.

[marsh mirage]

Yes and no

It's good for it's level

[acoustic knoll]

Expound

[marsh mirage]

But

[acoustic knoll]

Well, I expect once I can swing it, I'll be at that level tier for a long while haha

[marsh mirage]

It's still no dlp weapon

[marsh mirage]

Yeah it'll last a while

[acoustic knoll]

Goals

Is DLP a group or solo grind activity

[marsh mirage]

Solo

[acoustic knoll]

I know it's late game, I'm ages off. Okay, cool.

It wasn't on the effective Ironman-excluded list, so I assumed so

[marsh mirage]

If you were ironman and tried to get a dlp weapon, it would most likely be your last stop, because gosh you need crafters at 40

[acoustic knoll]

Well, that would be the goal as an IM longterm haha

I already feel fantastic about the choice to de-iron honestly. Opecla and I ran a few dungeons I hadn't been able to solo, we did Rag and Kresh with a group earlier.

Fantastic.

Hell, glorious, even.

[marsh mirage]

[marsh mirage]

Lies :x

it looks cool, so it has 100% dmg increase

(this is a joke)

[acoustic knoll]

If our imbuement gave stacks on autos like Crusader, it definitely would be better haha. I love those chunky green numbers though

I do agree that dw looks hype. I always carry both my full switch for Sader and Warden with me. It's just looking like I'll be adding armor to that...also need to decide whether I should be using a melee staff for Warden, for long term planning.

I kinda want to stick with a 2h melee weapon since I prefer melee classes in general. Less skill level gap issues.

[marsh mirage]

Honestly staff is fun

It gives me a sheppard kind of vibe when you rock light armor

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-is-my-shepherd-gif-5499790

[acoustic knoll]

See, but I really want Oath of Ancients Paladin for my Warden haha

Let me smite in Nature's name

I think medium wis armor and a 2h melee will get me the best balance

[marsh mirage]

Yeah sadly warden can't rock heavy in BoC

I mean you caaaaaan but

[acoustic knoll]

Is Medium fine?

[marsh mirage]

I had to equip 3 tank items

[acoustic knoll]

I can live with Medium. I like Brawler a lot anyway.

[marsh mirage]

yes, it's the way to go

[acoustic knoll]

At least it'll share a skill with another class I enjoy haha

[marsh mirage]

problem was a debuff that deals magic dmg, dealt 5.2k dmg... 💀

[acoustic knoll]

Oof.

Any damage shield or negatement trinkets for shit like that?

[marsh mirage]

There are, but i haven't tried it yet

loe tank trinket ignores magic dmg for 3 seconds

[acoustic knoll]

Noted. Do you think my medium armor with 2h melee plan will be fine?

[marsh mirage]

100%

[acoustic knoll]

Beautiful. You've been exceedingly helpful. Thank you, my friend.

[marsh mirage]

[dusty vale]

Huh

Which 1 you talking about

[thin tendon]

blood burst on last boss i witnessed it happen in real time

[dusty vale]

Shouldnt be stacking lol then it doesnt happen

[marsh mirage]

@acoustic knoll

[acoustic knoll]

That's from LoE right? I got the Int version last night. I'm a ways off from being able to use it admittedly 😅 Magic is 21 since I've been using Melee pretty exclusively.

100 wisdom on proc is bonkers

[acoustic knoll]

@marsh mirage Hey yo, how much do you want for that staff?

[acoustic knoll]

Nvm, just got one from LoE lmao

[marsh mirage]

Oh! Grats

[marsh mirage]

I do have a decent-ish weapon for magic 18 that could last you till 30 if you want it

[acoustic knoll]

I think I'm okay, thank you though. I appreciate it. I've got my T6 Mana Ash staff with Vamp on it, which should be beautiful until I can use that Embrace.

[marsh mirage]

[acoustic knoll]

@marsh mirage I had an idea just now I'd love your thoughts on.

What do you think about the idea of merging the buffs given by Torrent of Spirits and Spirit Blast? They have similar effects, give +% stat to you and allied near you.

What if it were unified into a single buff, where Torrent of Spirits and Spirit Blast give a stack toward the buff. Each stack would refresh duration and increase intensity. Say, capped at 5 stacks and each one gives +4% to all stats. Have Spirit Blast give 1 stack and Torrent give 2.

Or maybe buff one of the buff effects a lil bit and make the other one do something different so we can bring a bit more to the table to better suit the true hybrid support class design.

[marsh mirage]

That could work. At 5 stacks that would increase stats to 20% but would that then be 20% for all stats or the 15str & 15 dex one?

[acoustic knoll]

All stats was the idea. Make it a universally desirable buff for everyone that could be in the party to make up for the fact that both our damage and our healing isn't quite up to par. A stronger buff to bring feels like the solution if hybrid support is the goal.

[marsh mirage]

Asking because (i'm bad at math) but right now we have 15/15 str & dex buff and a 10% one, would 20% make up for the 15% we would miss if we are getting rid of one?

[acoustic knoll]

So if both are active we would give 25% to Str and Dex, and 10% to Wis, Con, and Int. My suggestion is 20% to All as a balanced middle ground.

[marsh mirage]

[acoustic knoll]

STR and dex lose 5% from the buffs, everything else gains 10%, and it makes it more intuitive with proper rotation to ensure the buff is up at all times.

Slight ramp up, but that isn't bad.

[marsh mirage]

That would be a good idea honestly, would get rid of the str/dex meta too tbh

because if you play with someone who don't benefit from str or dex, warden is even worse

[acoustic knoll]

I also really want at least Ancestral Rage to scale both with Strength as well as Wisdom. Not fully, but like .45, .55. Would raise its damage a little bit and give Wardens a bit more benefit out of Strength.

And I kinda hate that it's just a slightly anticlimactic nuke. With the shortened CD I don't want to ask for too much, but it feels like it should invoke a Primal Frenzy or something. Give you and everyone else a short-mid duration attack/cast speed buff. (5-7s? Less than Crusaders personal attack speed buff, that's like their thing)

[marsh mirage]

If done right, it would also raise the skill ceiling on the class, having two things to track instead of one as it is right now

I think attack/cast speed buff is not the best idea, i do like giving it a short buff to spice things up but cultist has this and it would clash, so would have to think of something else I think

(Windfury? Please Ryan )

[acoustic knoll]

I haven't played Cultist so fair enough. I think a short, meaningful buff added to it would be cool. Make it so the buff makes the buff holder's next three attacks do extra Nature Damage.

(Windfury? Please Ryan 🙏 )

[marsh mirage]

[marsh mirage]

holder's as in everyone who gets hit by the buff?

[acoustic knoll]

Yee

[marsh mirage]

I love that idea ngl

[acoustic knoll]

Boom. Better buffs make better Warden without overtuning its hybrid damage and healing.

[marsh mirage]

I do think this could work. Would just need to do math things which I'm not good at. But the idea is great honestly. Thinking of classes that then see 3 green numbers and they'll wonder where it came from sounds amazing

[acoustic knoll]

Given our current tuning and your testing at current endgame, do you think this would make Warden overtuned?

[marsh mirage]

Depends on how much the 3 hits would deal in terms of dmg

But seeing current warden dmg wise, it probably wouldn't make it overtuned

Thinking again, it COULD be overtuned if groups play around it

[acoustic knoll]

Devs can handle the tuning, it adds multiplicative damage with larger group sizes. I think the damage would have to be balanced around an intended group size receiving the buff.

5 people get extra nature damage on their next 3 attacks; that adds a lot of damage to an encounter. Each hit can be a relatively small addition, but when added together it would be a solid and worthwhile button to press. That would be my goal.

[marsh mirage]

But I do think it could be a start to test things. the 3 hits could be like 50% of a melee swing or something

or just 50% of whatever spell or thing someone does

[acoustic knoll]

No that would be bonkers

Crusader presses their Nuke with that buff, my green text would be 760ish damage

And I get two more triggers lmao. It would have to be scaled off of base weapon damage, so some % of an AA.

Otherwise it gets crazy lmao

[marsh mirage]

It would be crazy yes

[acoustic knoll]

I like crazy, but I want Oath to treat it seriously lmao

[marsh mirage]

100%

[acoustic knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/roz-monsters-inc-gif-21427129

Devs right now...I hope

[marsh mirage]

I need to do new tests soon, got my dlp weapon on warden, but last time i checked, it's around 700-1k dps behind berserker, so that small thing might just push it up into viability

[acoustic knoll]

What does the DLP weapon for Warden look like? Any idea on 2h options? I believe you had previously told me there isn't one presently...

But I can't remember

[marsh mirage]

it's a 1 hander, void/light mace kind of thing. As of right now I don't think there is a 2hander outside of using a stafff

[acoustic knoll]

The Wisdom staff options I'm assuming have a healing proc?

[marsh mirage]

From what I understand, yeah only healing procs

[acoustic knoll]

My Warden healing is enough for Opecla and I to duo LoE, which is...fun? It pulls its weight when you're shortmanning, that's for sure.

[marsh mirage]

I do this with Veera

I even healed the level 44 world boss as warden, no healers, just tank and some dps

[acoustic knoll]

So a healing staff wouldn't break my heart, but man, I'd love a sequel to the Lifeblood Reaper. Nature themed Scythe from DLP with Wisdom stats and a dps proc.

That gives me hope

[marsh mirage]

Same. I want this too. Both 1handers & 2 handers, so we have a choice

[acoustic knoll]

Choices are good.

If the intention is for Warden to dual wield, then I'll start dual wielding at DLP. Fine. I just wish I had that choice lol

[marsh mirage]

Right now you aren't forced to do it I think. Need to do more dlp to see with staffs if its better

[acoustic knoll]

At that level I'm operating on 2nd hand information and speculation haha. I just hate thematically that if I want to use a 2h on Warden, I am mostly forced to use a stick for best effect.

[acoustic knoll]

Do we have any idea what the direct value comparison is between main stat and damage? Using Warden as the subject in this case.

I have a Band of Envy, which gives +28 Damage; for the sake of damage, am I going to be better off with that? Or a 21 Wisdom crafted ring?

[marsh mirage]

I'm not sure about this honestly, but it's worth checking. I do think Warden don't benefit much from it, but that's me never trying it so I could be wrong

[dusty vale]

wisdom

it gives damage to all your abilties as well

and gives more mana

[acoustic knoll]

Fair enough. Sometimes raw damage is better than main stat; pretty game dependent. %damage in Ethyrial seems desired, so I wasn't sure how flat additive damage stacks up.

I may do some dps tests to see if there's a major difference. I figured for group content the wisdom would be better because of Wis boosting healing, but if I was trying to push more damage when solo I wasn't sure. I should have specified the context originally.

[dusty vale]

Flat dps is better when you are very low lvl because stat Arnt really that high yet

The higher you go the worse flat damage becomes

[acoustic knoll]

Makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[acoustic knoll]

@marsh mirage Did you do much testing with that Dawn's Light? I got my hands on 2x of them, did a little myself...and I have questions.

Why is Dawn's Light a Wisdom Melee Weapon? Legit the first one I've seen. Even Lifeblood Reaper still says Stength Melee Weapon...my brain needs clarification.

[marsh mirage]

I did some testing yeah, and honestly not sure

[safe escarp]

kinda like a healing mace in wow

[marsh mirage]

So in theory a wisdom melee weapon would do less dmg than a strength melee weapon?

for melee i mean

[acoustic knoll]

Well, if that means that its AA damage is based off of Wisdom instead of Str, not necessarily. But how does that then interact with Warden's Angered Spirits?

[safe escarp]

hmm, i wouldn't say that

the autos scale off str, the main value is gonna be the extra wis

if you take a str weapon with str your autos will do more dam

if you take a str weapon with wis, your spells will do more dam

[marsh mirage]

[acoustic knoll]

Is there any mechanical difference between the two examples I provided in how the damage is calculated? They're both weapons that would typically require Melee, but instead require Magic; they both have Wisdom caster stats. But the Mace says Wisdom, and Reaper says Strength.

[marsh mirage]

One thing I found out about it tho, which might look obvious, but having a melee 1hander and the weapon levels both magic & melee, kind of neat ngl

[acoustic knoll]

Like specifically the tooltip under the durability.

[acoustic knoll]

That is interesting and I didn't think of that. That could be useful.

[marsh mirage]

Also

It's not a big dps loss if you use it in the offhand

So it's a neat weapon to use to level magic

[acoustic knoll]

I think I need to go bonk a target dummy because I still feel like my question is not answered.

[marsh mirage]

Think its due to reaper being a bonk stick

Which is why it says str

[acoustic knoll]

But...Dawn's Light is still a melee weapon. By definition also a bonk stick

[marsh mirage]

Yes but it's also an odd one out, not many melee weapons require magic i think :x

[acoustic knoll]

These are 2 of the only ones I've seen, and it's driving my poor brain bonkers that they have structural differences in their tooltips lmao

I want to use a 2hander with Warden anyway, but since it sounds like there isn't a Wisdom dps 2hander from DLP I'm trying to adjust my expectations lol

[marsh mirage]

I do think they calc the same, would have to check it tho

[acoustic knoll]

I have an idea how to test it

I have a T30 purple for my Sader set up; just going to let myself AA the dummy with zero ability input with each, with and without weapon imbue, and see what numbers it turns out after a minute or two of each

They are the same tier and same dps, other one is a regular strength weapon compared to Dawn's Light. That way rotational accuracy isn't a factor, because I'm sometimes bad

[marsh mirage]

Record it if you can and put it here

[acoustic knoll]

I don't usually capture video but I'll see what I can do.

Gonna finish this Satyr task once server is back up and probably go do that.

[marsh mirage]

Or leave notes here xD

[acoustic knoll]

I'll at minimum leave notes haha

[marsh mirage]

I had this mace 😭

On my paladin

[acoustic knoll]

Ulduar, right?

[marsh mirage]

Yup

[acoustic knoll]

The warrior plate tier set out of that raid is still one of my favorites to date

[acoustic knoll]

Soft confirmation of theory: Dawn's Light auto attacks do indeed scale with Wisdom. With no weapon imbues, and significantly higher Wisdom than Strength, my staff of the same tier was doing 50-70 damage less per swing than the main hand mace.

So Pro strat seems to be Dawn's Light in off hand like you said >.>

[acoustic knoll]

@safe escarp Can this please be changed to be a "Wisdom Melee Weapon" instead of a Strength one, so that its auto attacks scale with Wisdom, like Dawn's Light? Pretty please? It would be a meaningful but still overall significant damage buff for Warden at end game. I think. I did a lil math.

[safe escarp]

dawn's light shouldn't really scale with wis

[acoustic knoll]

I can think of no other reason it would be doing close to 50% more damage than a "Strength" 2h weapon of the same tier.

So if that's a bug, then fine lol

[safe escarp]

[acoustic knoll]

Maybe check the math and update the tooltip hahaha. God damn it, I was excited, but if it's fixed to be consistent idc. Do you want me to submit proof in a bug report somewhere?

I love finding weird shit like this

I'll put my stick back on for now, Reaper here we come 🤘 Though, a dps proc 2handed wisdom weapon in DLP if there isn't one, would be splendid.

[marsh mirage]

It would be sick to have it scale with wisdom yeah