Torch Regression

[barren ember]

If this is the intent, then I absolutely take it back.

To me it feels like the release version had made the torches even less balanced. The chest mounted torch is a spotlight with 3x the diameter of the hand torch and at least twice the range.

The hand torch feels like it's at the end of its battery life and can barely output any illumination.

To me, the hand torch should be a friggin spotlight. It takes a hand to hold, it's a huge torch, it should have great range and a big diameter. The chest light should be the second worst, with only the head torch being less powerful. It, and the head torch, both have relatively small size and therefore smaller battery capacity, plus they do not take a hand to hold. The head torch is by far the most convenient so it should have the least strength.

Having this dynamic would also work against the trope of 'higher security level gear is default just better'. It would help to ensure meaningful choices when it comes to taking your loadout as opposed to just defaulting to taking the head torch and chest lamp. At the moment, I will never carry a hand torch, especially as you start the game being give a chest lamp in the tutorial.

Frankly, in the current build, the hand torch is a waste of polygons and junk taking up processing power as well as space in the loot pool.

To clarify the picture. Chest lamp is on the left. The hand torch is basically not visible on the right.

Side by side of the chest torch and the hand torch.

To clarify. Chest lamp is on the left. Hand torch is basically not visible on the right.

[rough ruin]

Cant be sure but the pocket lamp suddenly has perhaps even more range than the railed light lol

I think it's at least comparable

[slim echo]

could this be a new flashlight added?
me and a friend noticed the flashlight we found was called "old flashlight" or something like that. very weak and not worth using

[wooden gazelle]

The flashlights need to be improved across the board. This is what I'm seeing with the chest flashlight.

Here's a better Image with more to see but I have always had to fight mimics by aiming at a muzzle flash.

[granite bluff]

Chest lamp has always been terrible, throughout both games. I think it's intentional

The headlamp needs work most definitely,but I think the chest lamp is shitty because it's a starter

[wooden gazelle]

I can understand that decision. the chest lamp has a square emitter and a plastic cap to scatter the light so it should actually look like the light on the pad and be used to see what your doing indoors or at short range. My point is more that a light this bad would not be issued to me by a military organization to travers the most hostile place on the planet.

[granite bluff]

I get where you're coming from,but if we follow that logic,why would different items be behind "security levels". I think it's just a shitty light given to us so we at least have something that can be used while mounted,but isn't very powerful out of the gate

[barren ember]

See my picture above. Chest lamp is on the left. Hand torch is barely visible on the right.

For the release build the starting lamp is the most powerful one in the game, and you get a starting weapon torch.

[wooden gazelle]

They don't get better though, this is a literal weapon flashlight which reaches 300 meters in real life. It is actually worse with slightly less range and sharper edges that in effect reduce the width as well.

[wooden gazelle]

I have acquired a hand troch and op is right. Holy, how very visible of this game.

[iron trout]

I must be one of the only people who like it then lol makes going out at night actually dangerous. I feel like the night itself is a kind of 'light eating' anomaly, similar to how tunnels are described as in the metro series

[barren ember]

My primary issue isn’t with torches not being amazing and night being dark.
It’s that the biggest torch in the game has the weakest light, and the starting torches have the strongest light. It means there is never a case where you would choose to carry a hand torch as it takes up a hand to use and is super weak. Personally I believe better game design would be for the torches to have trade offs, with the hand torch being the strongest because it’s the least practical and the head torch being the weakest as it points where you look without needed to be held.

If overall the torches were still weak and didn’t do a great job at night, I think I would be ok with that. It would be in keeping with the theme.

[iron trout]

hand torch is the weakest, its literally free? or do you mean the chest lamp

it makes sense a torch you just find in the radius woudl be rubbish, vs unpsc issue gear

its an ancient soviet torch with old crappy bulb in, vs unpsc modern stuff

[barren ember]

If that’s the logic then why even bother having it in the game.

The only other ‘weaker because it’s free and ancient’ things we find in the game are guns, but they are still usable and compete with the shop guns due to ergonomics, they aren’t a complete downgrade in every way and some are unique.

I’ll put it another way, it’s not like we find ancient body armour and helmets in the radius that is just weaker because it’s old Soviet stuff. It would be redundant and a waste of processing resources to render things the player will never pick up or use.

So at this point, why both having the hand torch in the game. It’s nonsensical.

[iron trout]

having said all that, it could do with a slight buff though

from day one, I've only ever used it as a looting aid placed in my pack. since you get the chest lamp from the start there has never been any real need for them

but they stopped that with the recent update, so now i wont use them ever

in a nutshell seems like the 'darker night' anomaly was applied everywhere but the torches are all still the same, intended or not. In my opinion the hand torch should still be the weakest in the game, same as all the stashed weapons are mostly inferior to the shop bought stuff. but I agree with your point that it is a little too weak, now with the much darker nights

buuuut, I still like the fact that night is a real issue for explorers, with you having to either gear up or really think hard if you want to go out at night. perhaps a compromise would be to revert peninsula back to the earlier darkness levels, or perhaps have the night get progressively darker on each map further along the story

[barren ember]

Not once you get to sec 3. The night vision is totally unrealistic in this game with no washout or contrast. I haven’t got it on the release build but the beta night vision was just a green filter that let you see as if it were daylight.

[granite bluff]

That's how vr night vision is

Like no joke

No VR game has got night vision right and I'm starting to think it's impossible

Not even h3vr

[barren ember]

We will have to agree to disagree. I think if the hand torch is in the game, it should be useful and balanced so that using it is a choice between power (hand torch) and convenience (clip/ head torch).

Stashed weapons are useful and balanced because they are free, only minorly worse than shop weapons and some have better ergonomics than shop weapons.

They are a stepping stone that can get you a weapon in the security level above you, and that can be modified.

You can pick up a stashed weapon at any point and choose to take it, without it making you significantly worse. The damage difference is like 2-5 points. When you’re dealing 45 per shot, 5 points more on a shop weapon isn’t significant.

[iron trout]

yeah 'only minorly worse' is the key here. the hand torch is 'masively worse' lol

[barren ember]

VTOL VR does a perfectly adequate job of night vision. It has all the realistic stuff you would expect like contrast, lens flare, light curtaining etc.

[iron trout]

at the end of the day we can only express our opinion, respect others and respectfully discus. then the devs decide. then modders over-ride those descisions lol

[granite bluff]

Waiting for modders to add a atv or some shit like they did itr1

[iron trout]

I totally agree the hand torch is just, useless. I cant even use it for the only purpose I used it for in the past

so if the torch was buffed to be better but not quite as good as the chest lamp, fine by me. if it got made betterer, then whatever, still fine by me lol

[granite bluff]

It would've been amazing if it could've been mounted onto your shoulder

Like in between the jaw and shoulder

[iron trout]

just my personal oppinion is I think it should be the worst in game as its a radius only thing. but definetly not as bad as it is now

to fix that, all you need to do is have item slots placable on top of the sholders, and in fact that would be cool as you coudl then make and equip some of these bad boys:

surely, this is something we can all agree on

[barren ember]

But then why spawn it at all?
You start with a chest lamp and a gun lamp.
If it’s the worst torch, you’re still never gonna pick it up so it’s just wasting processing resources rending it.

It’s like wishing for soviet body armour that doesn’t protect you and can’t have pouches mounted on it. You’ll never pick it up.

[late bronze]

I think the main issue with the chest lamp isn't related to the power but the width. The chest lamp is meant to give you contextual light in a close area, and right now it doesn't do that. It should make looting something on the floor easy, no allow you to see an enemy from far away. Luckily there's an easy solution because the light attached to the pad is already like this. If the chest lamp simply used the same style light source, I think it would be fixed. Short range, but wide angle.

[iron trout]

I never picked it up antyway, its always been rubbish. I will have 1 on my pack for looting

its only there becasue us early testwers asked

going back to the dawn of (itr) time, I've never used them except in dire need. as soon as I get a chest lamp, they just get stuck on the shelf

but, liek I said, it does need a buff, thats for sure. its just way too poor. probably buff the chest lamp while youre there

so hand torch is as bright as chest lamp is now, and chest lamp is a little bit brighter. the chest lamp is still pretty poor, as the placement is often covered by your arms when you're trhign to shoot at night lol

but we have made our oppinions known, the devs will decide (and modders can and will over-ride)

[barren ember]

Chest lamp is already buffed into a search light in the release build. (It’s too bright)

The goal of lighting shouldn’t be to make night time the same as day time.

[iron trout]

I'm glad we agree on that last point anyway lol

I dont find the chest lamp all that bright at all, often i have to take it off and toggle it to seer if the damn thing is even on

[late bronze]

I feel like Headlamp should be very directional, but shortish range. If hand torch is balanced relative to everything else from a gameplay perspective, it should probably be the best light source in the game. However, thematically I feel like it's meant to be bad? Like an old, almost dead light from the 80s you've just found on the ground

[barren ember]

I agree with Steve- chest lamp should be a soft, wide light that is short range. Good in buildings for looting but next to useless in big open spaces.

The hand torch should shine (get it) in big open spaces.

[iron trout]

so you'rte talking more range

[barren ember]

If we use that logic, thematically all food in the radius should be rotten.

[iron trout]

chest lamp wider beam, hand torch narrower and longer

[late bronze]

Haha is it not? I always found that kind funny

[barren ember]

Yeah. Personally I also think the head torch should be weak. Weaker than the chest lamp because it fills the same role but is more convenient.

[late bronze]

Oh yeah beef chunk from the ground! -Devours-

[iron trout]

dont take away my ash coated pineapple

[late bronze]

Hahaha

[barren ember]

Plus they could then have a shorter detection range on the chest and head lamp.

[iron trout]

yeah I think that would make more sense though, each torch has a role. early game you woudl want the hand torch for shooting at night with its extra range. chestlamp is wider (way wider, im so fed up of not beign able to see things 0.0005mm below the centre of my eyeballs) head torch similar idf not the same, but as its on your face its more convenient

[barren ember]

Basically I want the lighting system to be a genuine choice when building my loadout. At the moment it’s just and auto take of head torch and clip torch and never touch the hand torch.

[iron trout]

does the dicklamp strat still work or do they turn off in the pouch

[barren ember]

Yep, I feel like night vision is what should replace the hand torch / make it irrelevant once you unlock it.
It fills the same role of far sight at night.

[barren ember]

Still works.

[iron trout]

my torch strat in itr1 was always dicklamp -> chest lamp -> head torch

but since you get a chestlamp good old dicklamp no longer needed

[barren ember]

Yeah I don’t think we should start the game with a chest lamp and weapon lamp. At least move them to being an early mission reward.

[iron trout]

the idea is probably on first game start you woudl be buggered

what woudl be cool is if in the first transition laurie points to a hand torch and says something like 'the unpsc is too tight to even give you a light source'

or like, you start in the peninsula at night, cant see shit

but theres a dead explorer just in the distance lit up with torch

[late bronze]

When I started a new game this time, the first assignment to blow yourself up was at full night, was it the same for you guys? It was interesting because at that point they hadn't given any light sources so it was really hard to see anything which was actually kind of interesting.

[iron trout]

yeah exactly

you were just too scared to go anywhere else. i wonder how far you can go in that part actually

[late bronze]

Good point, I wonder what even spawns in at that time

[rough ruin]

Tbf starting with a weapon light isnt so OP considering how worthless said weapon light is

The big light is somewhat okay, it shouldn't be anywhere NEAR sec 4 though