#New Magazine Mechanics Suck B***s

162 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

native kite
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Using quest controllers, the mechanic of reloading a pistol just causes you to smash your hands together, striking the controllers together. You can kinda jimmy it, by bringing the controller off centre once the magazine is inserted, then lifting it so your hands finish next to each other, but it sucks.

It feels like pistols were not play tested before release. A hotfix where the magazine is offset above where your real hand is would solve the issue for pistols until the mechanic is refined more.

A number of other weapons are now significantly more difficult to reload when mag palming due to the angle of the magazines when holding two. Again, feels like it was not play tested. Not sure how to fix it for them, other than reverting the system, as its an angle issue, not a distance issue.

solemn copper
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The AK mags feel awful too. They feel so robotic to put into the magwell. Hope we get an option to go either way.

crude vault
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It is really rough on the PM with Index controllers aswell😓 probably rough on other guns i just havent tried yet

solemn copper
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Jeez. The index should be what it's best with. I wonder what controllers the team were using where they didn't catch this

crude vault
robust oyster
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Just needs an option to toggle this or the previous behaviour, I like it despite the difficulty but I'd like some more wiggle room around where the mag needs to be to lock in place

pine knot
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agree it's almost impossible to insert pm mag without merging my two controllers into a single controller (anomaly controller)

eager mulch
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I've found a workaround for quest 2/3. When inserting a mag into a pistol, in one fluid motion, angle your hand outwards while you insert it, and touch the bottom of your main controller to the base of the palm of your reloading hand. I can try and get a video for more clarity but my quests being screwy about recording right now.

native kite
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It feels like they didnt bother to play test it for pistols.

The work around for Quest (and likely others) is to inset the tip of the magazine, then bring your hand sideways as it comes up. The tip of the mag being in the well, will keep it in there as you bring your hand up next to your other hand. Janky as fuck, I know

sharp mural
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All they need to do is have a little assist once you get to about 75% inserted where it finishes the process for you

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But removing a magazine also kinda bumps your weapon a bit

vivid dove
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yoo family, my take on this is guys u made a nice way to inser mags now really immersive but just make that conection area smaller, i still wanna miss reload, and like somone said its way to robotic now but i like the adition overall

sharp mural
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But i really fucking love the new mechanic it just needs some tuning

vivid dove
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oh and the pistols since its a game i understand the limitations but there should be atleast 2 positions of the hand both normal hold and magplaming imo atleast

silver matrix
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Same on pico 4, new reload is suck. Saiga's reloading feels like drawing half of the circle

vale raft
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I found it janky when you're moving though, the magazine teleports around the grip of the pistol when you're sprinting, pretty sure it's because of janky physics, but other than that, I love the new mag mechanic

crisp bison
sharp mural
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yea the bizon is straight up unusable now

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everything else i like, maybe make it a bit more forgiving all round

vale raft
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The radius is never forgiving, my friend

sharp mural
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true, true

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mag palming at least with the saiga is wrist breaking now

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you have to bend so far lol

vale raft
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I didn't get to that point though, I'll be honnest

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I just got security level 3 and I upgraded all my gear and took a better pistol, so I haven't used any rifles yet.

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But with the pistol, I found that some of them are harder to reload than others, maybe it's just me getting used to them, but I found the glock easier to reload than the PM, for instance.

eager mulch
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I find that in the heat of things my hand flies up past the gun while inserting, rather than doing so methodically, which in turn sort of negates the jankiness of insertion.

serene olive
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Mp9 and s a chore to reload due to the length of the magazine

sharp mural
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The fort17 seems to be fine with the controller bumping issue

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I imagine the pm was kinda rocky because it's so smol

eager mulch
sharp mural
eager mulch
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Weird. I'll see if it reoccurs on my next session

sharp mural
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I really like the mechanic in theory

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I think it's become the industry standard at this point

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It just needs some tweaking, OP was a touch harsh about it I feel

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They didnt introduce this in the beta though which i think would have helped fine tune it more for release

eager mulch
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I do think they lack a proper QA team, hence why things come out half baked. I feel if the beta were a little delayed (along with release) to include more of these mechanics it would have been better for polish in the long run.

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However, people are very harsh. I find that especially in the VR community, entitlement and verbally abusing devs is all too common.

crisp bison
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Aren't we effectively their QA team

native kite
# sharp mural It just needs some tweaking, OP was a touch harsh about it I feel

The reason why I believe harsh criticism is justified is that it is the release version of the game.

I will give a lot of grace for a Beta, but as soon as you release a game, it needs to have been play tested. It is the market product that is being sold.

To introduce new mechanics that were not in the Beta is fine, if they did in house testing. It’s not even hard to you have one person doing 10x reloads on each gun. But I don’t think there is a single person saying that the pistol reloads function well. Everyone is reporting having trouble and has a work around. This says to me that limited, if any at all was done which is the frustrating thing.

crisp bison
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Playing an early access game is an implied agreement to help test the game, anyway, yeah?

native kite
crisp bison
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In any case, I'm gonna play around and find out soon

atomic latch
main silo
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Yeah I think this should have been part of the Beta.

I honestly think it look better than what we had but it's a bit jumpy and wonky, some guns work better than others. The 2 worst I tried so far where the AKs (in general) and the 1911.

Glock was the one that work best in my experience. with both long and regular mag. It'll just take time to adjust to it.

Issue with the 1911 is how far I have to push the mag in to get it to seat right. I literally have to go elbow deep almost, makes it look weird cos my hand jump past the magwell after I'm done loading.
The player character holds the mag closer to how you would IRL but it just doesn't function as well as what we had before.

AK just feels weird in so many ways, I honestly don't know where to start.

I'm gonna say it... this feels like Tabor reload and I'm not a fan... Sorry.

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It replaced the visual ''jank'' of having the mag jumping out of your hand to having your hand move on their own to accomodate the visual. I feel like the object turning in my hand rather than my hand turning to adjust would be way less jarring to see.

I think this could have been great but definitely needed more testing IMO.

main silo
native kite
# main silo

When one member of the community does more testing than the people designing and implementing the mechanic…. 😂

main silo
# native kite When one member of the community does more testing than the people designing and...

NGL, I think you went a little to hard with the tittle, doesn't necessarily invite discussion. Have to admit though, I agree with most your points, sadly.

I'm a bit disappointed how big of a change it is to the original mechanic.
It was a bit stiff and could have looked better but it filled it's intended role perfectly. Very easy to grasp for new player and ITR1 veteran alike. I don't think the same can be said about what we have now.

native kite
crisp bison
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I had a chance to try this out and the only egregiously broken one is the Bizon, I think

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It's possible to work around the rest, but I get that a 75% auto snap would help

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For pistols, I push my hand forward and up to prevent the controller from banging into the other, and that works pretty well

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Magazines in general still collide with the gun on removal, though, so there's still that clack noise

native kite
crisp bison
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Guess so, hence the 75% snap suggestion

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Or the inward offset

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Dunno which I would like better

native kite
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I feel like the simple solution is to add a toggle or hotfix it back to what it was in the Beta whilst they work on improving it.

Personally an offset would be annoying and undermines the VR experience.

Isn’t 75% snap pretty much what it was before?

crisp bison
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It was an immediate snap

eager mulch
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Yeah, you just brought it near the magwell and it clicked in.

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Was most noticeable with the Fort 17 in my experience

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The new system needs a lot of work. I've noticed reloading while moving causes pistol mags to clip through the gun.

harsh veldt
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I get the feeling nobody playtested this with Index controllers. Moving my hand way past the PM to reaload it is way less immersive than the snap. Also reloading the Bizon is such a pain in the butt now holy

main silo
# crisp bison It was an immediate snap

It was an imediate complete reload is the right way to put it.

The mag do snap, they snap from a further distance than before, you just need to finish the motion on your own and there's a lot of disparity between the movement you are trying to do and what you are actually doing IRL to achieve it.

Yes it was snappy and stiff but your hand where in the right place.
I much rather do the right motion IRL and have it look off in game than have it look good in game but having to do it ''wrong'' IRL to achieve essentially the exact same result.

main silo
untold sentinel
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Quest 3 player here playing ITR2 with Virtual Desktop, I am also having the same issue. (Btw @main silo thanks again for your save file)

I kept on having difficulties with reloading the handguns where I have to literally get my controllers near with each other in order to fully load in the mag into the gun itself, and even in dire situations and when needed to reload quick, I'd get screwed over by the mimics till I fully reload the pistol.

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and second, why didnt they introduce this in the beta?? What kind of decisions are they doing when they try to implement the "Ghost Of Tabor-esque" reloads in 1.0, not in the beta???

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I am sorry devs but Im not a fan of the new whole reload thing

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and we need more QoL stuff, like for one, having to change a way of holding buckshots, because pressing the "hold" the button down, I would accidentally hold the buck, not the handguard. I want to be able to have the decision to change the way on how to hold the buckshot with trigger button instead of the hold button

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Please, whenever you want to introduce a new mechanic or some QoL updates, talk to your community first and/or put it in betas first.

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this just went from 11/10 to 9/10.

sharp mural
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I think they should probably have called this update 0.15 and saved the 1.0 for when the game is complete

untold sentinel
sharp mural
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it's kindof an odd choice to say it's been fully released when there're gaps in the feature list

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but i mean that seems to be how games are made these days, couldn't think of a single example of a game being released in a complete state in the last like 10 years

main silo
# sharp mural I think they should probably have called this update 0.15 and saved the 1.0 for ...

It makes me feel like the modern gaming industry is getting so bad... I don't think CM is ill intent but like at what point are you surrounded by so many bad business practice that it become normal to fully release incomplete products...

I much rather support an proudly assumed incomplete quality product than a ''finished'' half baked one.

I was really hyped for 1.0 this does bum me out quite a bit NGL.

sharp mural
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but yeah they really should have done more testing

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i feel like this new mechanic should definitely have been in the beta cos it's so vital to the player experience and they neeedd to get it right

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ITR2 has been full of control jank since ea launch, it's gotten better but only through iteration and feedback, so this was never going to be perfect the first time

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so i think having a beta 5 with the rest of the new stuff that requires testing would have been a good shout

main silo
sharp mural
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and the bizon is broken lol

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actually that being said some of the magazine positioning when mag palming too is a bit suspect

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but im thrilled lol this was what I'd wanted since the game was announced lol i'd completely lost hope

ocean obsidian
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just to say my piece, using Quest 3 controllers, I didn't find too much jank. I've reloaded the GSH and Fort-17 and I find it extremely satisfying, I will say the PM reloads are in fact very close to the base of the controllers and if anything, those should indeed be fixed

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I haven't reloaded primaries besides the bizon yet

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the bizon is fun but the angle which you insert the magazine is based on moving it left and right instead of in the up and down angle, my guess is cus it copies the same pathing as the AK platform

ocean obsidian
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bizon's insertion angle needs to be placed on the hinge near the muzzle

wicked breach
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I think its cool, just needs a very slight tweak like maybe mags lock in 5-10mm earlier to take into account bulky controllers. I've got the hang of pistol reloads now after the initial insert give it a flick of the wrist upwards and it'll slap in nice. not tried anythign else mind you

vale raft
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Yesterday I got to use the AK with the new mag system.

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It doesn't work when you're sprinting

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The magazine just places itself back into the gun when you sprint forward

wicked breach
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to be fair, this has always been kind of an issue, lots of grip points become awkward as hell when sprinting

vale raft
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The physics are pretty janky, but it's just unreal engine's physics that suck.

vale raft
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I genuinely would not mind if sprint became a bit slower.

wicked breach
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I'd prefer an option where there is no click, you just have sprint at full forward on the stick, though it might not have enough sensitivity...

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so you can have variable sprint speed to slow walk

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probably woudl be a pain to code with havign stanima drain variable based on sprint speed

sharp mural
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Im sorry lost composure for a sec there

vale raft
sharp mural
sharp mural
vale raft
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Sometimes, but I'm not an expert with the engine

sharp mural
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Hmm

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Oh well

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Tbf irl you'd have a very difficult time reloading mid sprint lol

crisp bison
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Even when standing still, everybody thinks they can reload...until they get shot

vale raft
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That's just you, mate.

native kite
sharp mural
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Suppose that means a different thing these days

wicked breach
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yeah its the general tone of games these days

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but in a way, thats good sicne we still have active development from here

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in the past 1.0 would be 'done' thats it, maybe some bug fixes if you're lucky for a while

sharp mural
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Exactly yea

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Im not too bothered by it, until they tell us dev has stopped, it's not finished

versed edge
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Contractors Showdown has a similar magazine insertion involving sliding the mag to the very end. In this game I didn't had any issue and it felt natural.

But here, it feels very awkward and it collide my Quest Touch Plus controllers eachother.

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What baffles me is the fact this was not tested in the 1.0 beta

sharp mural
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Showdown should be held as the industry standard

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Rest of the game is ass and full of sweats but specifically the reloading

versed edge
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It's fine but the fact it was PVP only was not enjoyable for me.

But now they just added a new PVE mode, I will get another shot on this game.

wicked breach
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its a simple fix, the engaged point just needs to be a little further down. I've taken to angling my off hand slightly and just moving it up fast to slap it in. hard to explain but works well

crisp bison
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Yeah that's what I do

atomic latch
crude vault
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we are saved! thank you lovely devs

image.png
stiff anchor
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I'm not sure if it's still a thing on the hotfix, but I was playing earlier and I was encountering a lot of crashing when reloading while on the move

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the two times it happened it was when I'm sprinting and reloading an AKM

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will probably post this in bugs forum if it still occurs when i play later

vast lotus
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And as far as the mag loading thing goes I feel like it could be good with some more refinement tbh. Needs to be more lenient with where you can move your controller, and some guns like the bizon just need another look in general

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When it works it feels good, but currently if you get the angle wrong it feels really jank instead

native kite
# vast lotus Yeah I feel like they'd have gotten a lot less negative feedback if they just ca...

I agree about the 0.15 - but this game has been in early access for two years which is a long time.

Personally I feel like they should have had a roadmap with a better glide path - 2024- 2025 Pre Alpha, 2025- Alpha, 2026 - Beta, then run through a couple of iterations of the final game in Beta versions.

As soon as you put the 1.0 on the game, that means it is in a publishing, market ready state. Even if you intend to develop it to 1.94, 1.0 is a massive marker and a statement of ending the base game development.

sharp mural
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Well they seem to have added a toggle so problem solved

atomic latch
native kite
atomic latch
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it'd make things worse

native kite
# atomic latch it'd make things worse

I disagree. Good project management includes keeping a glide path up to date and clarity on reasons for change. A good community manager would be able to massage delays with transparency. It's basic stakeholder management.

atomic latch
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this isn't a "I don't wanna eat vegetables" situation, this is a "I don't wanna eat lead" situation

atomic latch
native kite
atomic latch
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having no roadmap makes you more flexible

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you can have plans

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but you don't need a roadmap

native kite
# atomic latch having no roadmap makes you more flexible

And less accountable. It's a two way street. A road map builds good will and trust with the community. It makes you look professional and is an opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, an overly optimistic road map can be a bad thing, but having a conservative road map can be the opposite, building good will by delivering early.

Again, I'm not saying you have to have a road map. But a good project manager will have one because the benefits it can bring for a good project manager far outweighs the negatives from delays.

Plus it's easy to just publish a road map with +1 month on every timeline date, then walk into the community with a 'Good news everybody, the update is coming early'

sharp mural
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Honestly not that deep really. Cmi have always been very transparent with a lot of important things and I think they deserve our good will despite the occasional setback like a slightly buggy mechanic or the lauri incident of 2026 which they addressed and took steps to solve

native kite
# sharp mural Honestly not that deep really. Cmi have always been very transparent with a lot ...

The comment about the road map is in the context of a 2 year development timeline as a part of the conversation being had, not specifically Lauri or the reload mechanics. I'm not saying they don't deserve our goodwill because of it, I am highlighting that there would be more goodwill if they had used one and I would like to think they would have release the game as a 0.8 build as opposed to a 1.0.

untold heart
native kite
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This thread can be locked with the new hotfix to the reloading toggle.