#I love you CMI but you have to lock in -Discreet

90 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

upper phoenix
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I want to know, who thought this was going to bit a hit among the youths. ITR is my favorite game franchise and CM is my favorite game company just to start. I say this for love, NOT hate for the devs and game.

ITR is a mood heavy game where you feel alone in a dead and uncanny world, not a game where you run around in a beautiful forest being talked at for 20 minutes straight, the vibe is completely ruined, that's why you shouldn't add NPCs to games like this. In ITR1 you had to actively seek dialogue, by playing tapes, reading notes, and breaking statues. The game never forced that onto you, as that would've ruined the mood of the game.

Forcing your players to listen to dialogue just ruins the pacing of the game, why on earth are we forced to listen to these people to progress? ITR1 never did that, why? Because that's horrible game practice. Again we had to go out of our way to experience dialogue, and even when we did, we could still do other stuff while they're "talking".

The writing in ITR1 was mysterious, it had nuance, and you had to actively seek it in order to understand it fully. It was NEVER handed to you, unless it was background information that could easily be told by the announcer guy in one sentence rather than 15 long dry paragraphs.

If you want to add such things to the game, then at least make them good. As they are right now, they're vibe and mood is completely off from what they're supposed to be (happy and silly rather than stoic and serious). They also talk way too much, where even if they tell you useful information, it's surrounded by so much clutter that it's just useless anyways, since you're not going to be paying attention to it.

You had 4 perfect mediums of story telling.

Statues (that you choose to listen to)
Notes (that you choose to read)
Tapes (that you choose to listen to)
Announcer (was forced but allowed you to do things freely instead of limiting you while talking, AND he barely talked )

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Now for ways to fix this mess

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The Announcer, all you have to do is make it so he talks a bit less, he is only irritating because the others around him irritate you to begin with

The Supervisor, make her calls optional to listen to, and make her more serious, she's way too goofy for this type of game

The Guide, make him a statue that you have to break to listen to in the transition points, make him say new things according to the story progression like he already does. Make his dialogue shorter and sweeter, make his word choice more ambiguous, so that he isn't just telling you the story, he's implying multiple stories to lead you on the right path. After all he's a ghost, not Fred from Scooby Doo

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Also, make the paths not require you to interact with him, make them the simple ropes we already have in itr1 and in some parts of itr2

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Like the ones where you're already at the transition point, and you don't have to shake his hand, you just walk through

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And this is if you keep these characters in the game

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Which I hope you do not

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I love you CMI but you have to lock in -Discreet

fleet shell
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Well put.

At this point, I'm seriously just begging them to push release. Those of us who love the series will play the game regardless, but others will simply not buy it or negatively rate it.

The story is trying to be a lighthearted thing, and then it becomes a horror survival game when you're alone. It just doesn't match at ALL.

They're about to make a big mistake if they release like this at the end of the month. 1.0 signals "done" - it's MUCH harder to gather sympathy with a 2.0 rework when you essentially signal to people that the game is finished now.

CM is betting big on the success of ITR2. Jobs are at stake here with them having restructured and attempting to expand into different IPs now. ITR2 has to be as successful as can be to keep the bills paid, I feel.

calm spoke
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I'm assuming this must get SO much worse cuz i just got to the forest and i really don't see what people are tripping out about so far.

upper phoenix
acoustic fossil
# upper phoenix https://tenor.com/view/squid-game-front-man-squid-game-2-happy-celebration-gif-1...

I wouldn't call this an absolute win. I really wanted the supervisor girl and the guide to be straight up removed. The guide could be fixed like you said, especially as a statue and not a poorly made NPC,
But this phoebe of a woman is just unforgiveable. Between the cringy voicelines, what looks to be an AI generated or metaverse-artstyle profile picture, and just being an interruption to fun as a concept.

dire jungle
# calm spoke I'm assuming this must get SO much worse cuz i just got to the forest and i real...

People just had a very specific idea on what they want the game to be 🤷‍♂️

CM games had other ideas, and people have very strong opinions on it.

Tbh with you, I don't get all the flag either. Some aspects could be improved, of course. However, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

What I do find a bit funny, though, is the fact that so many people are telling CM what their game is supposed to be, as if the developers have no idea on what they are building. As if the story and everything in the game right now is not intended 😂👌

"ItR iS sUpPoSeD tO bE a GaMe wHeRe YoU aRe AlOnE", when it's very clear that this is not what the developers intended with the sequel 🤷‍♂️

leaden frigate
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People have been telling CM what the game should be since the beginning of the beta. Everyone complained that the facility was too clean and orderly, the music on the store is too casual and relaxing, The mimics have too much detail, The mimic voice lines aren’t scary enough. The float away animation looks goofy. These are things I thought were fine but some people treated as if they were unforgivable, like goodness forbid the devs try something new and create contrast between the zone and the facility.

dire jungle
# leaden frigate People have been telling CM what the game should be since the beginning of the b...

I agree. Tbh, I bought the game because I saw the potential and the art direction of the first game wasn't for me.

But people just want ITR with an engine upgrade (why not just play the first one then).
They clearly wanted wanted a different direction with the sequel 🤷‍♂️

I mean the core loop is still there. The lore was expanded and they even expanded the customization a lot.
The game is in great sense a sequel.

gray flame
upper phoenix
upper phoenix
upper phoenix
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Now I want both of you to thank everyone for co-op, modular kits, revolvers in the first game, and mod support

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Because if we weren’t telling CM what to do, then they would’ve never succeeded like they did

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When making a game, you have to make sure you’re catering to your largest audience

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And they largest audience doesn’t like the NPCs

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So they MUST be changed

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If they wanted to make their own game, they wouldn’t have given us a single beta

upper phoenix
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Nobody holds that position

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What I do see

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Is that people (including me) want the game to look and feel more like itr1, to establish that is an evolution of it, and not a completely separate game that is unable to be compared to the first

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I don’t understand this whole thing about us telling them what to do

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And I say this respectfully

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Just look at what they were about to do

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That happens because of us NOT telling them what to do, because we never knew they were going to do that

dire jungle
# upper phoenix https://tenor.com/view/fallacy-detected-gif-3676326076616747944

First of... being vocal about something does not equate to biggest audience.

80% of the playerbase could be silent participants. While 20% where yelling in the forums 🤷‍♂️

I'm sorry, but stating that without you specifically telling them what to do, the process would render their game worthless is stupidly egocentric. Come down from your high horse... the game's success and development is by far a result of CM and not you... what a way to take credit for others achievement.

It's their vision, their game and their world.
We have been requesting things, and some requests were horrible, others were good. It's up to CM to filter what they think wouls fit their game.
CM are good ar listening to their community but they also know when to ignore us, which is a good trait to have as a developer.

Being all flashy and stuff in your responses won't make your arguments stronger, nor will it make me change my opinion 🤷‍♂️

CM have proved that they can make a good game. They have proved during the development of ITR2 that they are capable of doing it twice.

calm spoke
# dire jungle People just had a very specific idea on what they want the game to be 🤷‍♂️ CM ...

Yeah i'm hesitant to even comment on teh story as i'm still sec level 3 i think and from a writing standpoint i could TOTALLY imagine multiple scenarios for why these characters would behave the way they do and how it could be a total rug pull or misdirection.

Sorta like how in horror movies the victims meet the killer who seems almost TOO nice, too cheery in a way that's odd and doesn't fit.

I don't know if any of these things i can imagine are in the story or if it is a rug pull or misdirection like the first game but i can imagine scenarios where in hindsight it makes sense why Lauri was just a bit too friendly and trying a bit too hard to win you over.

But yeah i always genuinely assumed the main reason the narrative played out the way it did in the first game was just budgetary reasons. that if they had had the budget for katia she'd have been an animated character or something.

My main issue with the reaction is just the absolute level of unhinged i'ts been lol.

if this game has great gameplay and a forgettable story it will be like literally 99% of great games i've played lol.

like in resident evil 4, they send ONE GUY alone out to rural spain to rescue the presidents daughter and she's been kidnapped by this goofball cult and leons wisecracking and hamming it up the whole game like he hasn't killed 85,000 villagers and ashley's mostly concerned about you looking up her skirt when she's on a ladder 😂

Nobody's not playing re4 and nobody was demanding capcom delay it because ashley didn't act believable. It did what most game stories do, fill in a bullet point and tell the player why you're even there and people just played the game and had a blast.

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I prefer a good game story over a forgettable one but so few game stories are really that good. They're mostly just to establish a setting and let you know why you're out there shooting shit

upper phoenix
# dire jungle First of... being vocal about something does not equate to biggest audience. 80...

Yeah the ones yelling in the forums tend to be the most passionate about the game, which would mean their opinion should be held to a higher regard.

I have nothing to do with the games success, WE do. All of us, itr is itr because of CM AND the fans, and so is every other game that takes actual feedback from their players. I believe my horse is high, but nothing is stopping you from stepping up and joining me on my precious horse since it’s meant for all of US.

They do know when to ignore us, but they don’t. Because ignoring us means less of a fan base, less money, and failure. The devs want to listen to us, that is their biggest goal, we were the only reason for them doing things that they themselves didn’t want to do, but they do it for us, an guess what, it brought them success.

They have proven what they have proven, like the rest of us, their studio has weakness, that weakness is story. Also one more thing, I’m not being flashy, I’m just lightening the mood with my childness

upper phoenix
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I don’t really see a story, I like the theories and everything, but there’s nothing to base it off of, except for the stuff they just tell you

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I’ll wait to do that

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After 1.0

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It’s the way it was implemented

calm spoke
upper phoenix
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I’ll grant you that

calm spoke
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And yeah i'm not speculating either, it's why i've also not said a whole lot. it's not really affected my enjoyment of the game like at all.

upper phoenix
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I’ll still use them as different terms for clarification

upper phoenix
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As in everybody

calm spoke
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Well what i see is insane hyperbolic statements about how the game is ruined, needs to be delayed, how they don't want to play it, how they dont' even want to leave the base cuz lauri will wave at them and say hi, how they 40% of the play time is spent listening to lauri when it's probably more like 2%.

how one low key cringe character has utterly ruined everything.

Like i timed the last two times lauri talked to me. One was 30 seconds, one was about 40 seconds lol. that was sandwiched between over four hours of gameplay.

upper phoenix
# upper phoenix I’ll still use them as different terms for clarification

The way it was implemented was wrong. We didn’t get the “silent” lore, we got the “in your face” lore. For some games maybe it can work, but specifically for itr, it will NEVER work. The reason it will never work, is because the game is supposed to make you feel isolated and alone, even if the tone of itr2 is supposed to be lighter than itr1, this wasn’t just a lightening of the tone, it was a complete reversal. That doesn’t sit right with many people, because the freedom and the solitude of the first game is what defined it, whether you realized it or not.

upper phoenix
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Story is a small part of the delay

calm spoke
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I go on random videos on youtube of people playing this game and i see the same couple people from this discord going to EVERY SINGLE ONE and ranting about how much they hate lauri while like nobody else is even commenting abou tit, they're just either really impressed with the game or concerned how buggy the beta is.

upper phoenix
calm spoke
# upper phoenix It needs to be delayed for other reasons, not just the story

Yeah given how buggy the beta is i genuinely can't fathom how they could get it in a prime time space for the planned release.

If they wanted to delay it six months to add another location and a couple more entities and fix all these bugs in it i'd be thrilled. Thoose are my primary concerns, that theres just less of a game than itr1 here.

if they wanted to rework lauri to something more like how i'd write him to be i'd be fine with that too but it's the least of my concerns

upper phoenix
calm spoke
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but of course i doon't know who lauri even IS currently so i don't want to speculate.

My current assumption is that he's not a real guy and he's not a good guy

upper phoenix
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The vibe is what takes casual players and hooks them through their soul and drags them into loving the game I feel

calm spoke
upper phoenix
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It’s important to get it right early, and then add onto it later

upper phoenix
calm spoke
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Yeah i've said for repeat playthroughs ALL of this needs to be skippable

upper phoenix
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Yeah

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I just think it shouldn’t be forced onto you in the first place

calm spoke
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Which is pretty standard for most games.

Though a lot more of it is than people think lol

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but currently in some areas you do get softlocked if you just walk past lauri

upper phoenix
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The first game taught you a tiny bit to read notes and tapes, and break statues, it could’ve done it a lot better, but it was a step in the right direction

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With Laurie being a statue now, they’ll have to get us to break him

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Same thing they did with Katya, making her the statue that stood out, placing her in places connected to her memories

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She was a good medium of story telling

upper phoenix
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Pretty fortunate that hasn’t happened to me

calm spoke
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Still find that sortof a weird complaint, it's like INSANELY common in games to have npcs talking to the main character.

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as a vehicle of the story.

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like were people giga triggered here when they played half life 2 and you gotta talk to kleiner and barney and alyx etc etc?

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like i was more annoyed by it in metro exodus than i was in this. Holy god nobody ever shuts the fuck up in that game 😂

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To me the bes tsolution would be to let the player just walk past lauri into wharever you're supposed to go and then his voice switches to a radio.

There's a button proompt that says "Skip" and you can lsiten to him or not listen to him.

That way you don't miss any instructions if you don't want to and you can skip the interaction if you want.

For eva just a button on the screen that says "hang up" like it's a discord call

acoustic fossil
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Wait, you can turn them off?

warm whale
# calm spoke Well what i see is insane hyperbolic statements about how the game is ruined, ne...

Obviously its up to cmi to make the game they want to make, but they do want to make a successful game right? Cmi created this discord to get feedback, so when the overwhelming feedback on an aspect of the game is negative, it only makes sense for them to listen. This is done for movies, breakfast cereals, you name it because ultimately companies want to deliver a product people like.
I get that the pc gamer crowd can be a bunch of overly critical types that just complain about everything, but i don't think that applies here. They/we/I just want itr2 to be great and an undeniable success.
If the npc's had stayed the same, it wouldn't have ruined the game for me, but i live in California and I'm used to a lot cringe😜
I think it would have hurt sales, reviews, and the possibility for more content. I'm glad they changed course 👏

upper phoenix
upper phoenix
calm spoke
# acoustic fossil Wait, you can turn them off?

No, i was saying that you can just walk past lauri a lot of the time and go and do other things in the base while eva speaks or even leave often.

With lauri though during tthe lamp thing and before the compass mission it will soft lock you if you just walk past him and don't listen to his dialogue, same with the thing where he puts a message on your tablet iirc.

reef stone
# calm spoke No, i was saying that you can just walk past lauri a lot of the time and go and ...

The reason those softlocks with the NPCs are so common in the game I think is because something is out of order in their script.

I'm not a dev but I've been gaming for longer than many been alive, I noticed that in most games, a good practice when interacting with NPCs for quest rewards, that internal trigger usually happen as you enter dialogue with them rather than at the end.

Like, when you receive the call at the end of a mission in GTA or cyberpunk, you see the money hit your account or get the notification for your new items as the conversation start.

It's a small thing but it help prevent a lot of those issue.

Even if your NPC is god tier acted and animated, some people just wanna get to the shooting. If your game can break by just skipping a dialogue, something need to be adjusted.

warm whale
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I don't want to just get to shooting. I would love to see more science type missions.
I really hope they can get the mission bugs fixed before release. No pressure guys... but you really got to get that fixed💣

calm spoke
acoustic fossil
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Another hate for the awful ass writing, the guide calls the girl both alice and eva.

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Simple mistake in there but still.