paleontology

[scenic flame]

If they're both skeletally mature that completely reasonable is it not?

The only 2 reasons I can think of for it to be different proportionally is due to ontogeny or individual variation.

The holotype is elderly iirc so it can't be ontogeny, and individual variation is something we'd only know with proper osteology.

[grizzled pagoda]

Exactly, that image is one of the only images that shows a comparison of estimates of MMCH-PV 79 with the current Giganotosaurus, so, since we don't know much about MMCH-PV 79, we have to wait or use the most accepted version of the estimate.

[fossil ingot]

We don't even have the Proportions of That Specimen
Idk how that Specimen is even relevant to this Convo

Mf is just this

[coral forge]

52% size increase isnt enough to drastically effect skull proportions

[undone rapids]

It is younger than type, which is cool

[stiff osprey]

And the most accepted version of the estimate is a 127 cm skull for a 126 cm femur. You can read the paper, that is what it says. Giganotosaurus has a 163 cm skull for a 136.5cm femur, and is therefore larger headed both absolutely and proportionately. I can't make this any simpler

[fossil ingot]

Again
Doesn't Dans Meraxes HOLOTYPE have a 141cm skull vs the 127cm that is described with?

If you use that skeletal for this
Its Head will turn out huge

[grizzled pagoda]

Holotype? Nah

[scenic flame]

My understanding of the crux of Yukira's argument is: "The bigger specimen must have a proportionally larger head because it's bigger."

[fossil ingot]

The Holotype has a 127cm skull yes
The Skeletal you are using
Which is Dans
Has a about 141cm Skull at about 10.9m along the centra iirc

[queen oar]

@scenic flame you should make Styracosaurus appear in a Documentary.

[grizzled pagoda]

It is very strange that a dinosaur measuring 13.1 meters in length and 4.1-4.2 meters in height would have the same cranial dimensions as a dinosaur measuring 11 meters in length and 3 meters in height.

[undone rapids]

I mean, we have Rex holotype and 5027 which have different head:body proportions

[fossil ingot]

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THE PROPORTIONS OF THIS THING

[queen oar]

yup. They also the same or similar size too, btw.

[grizzled pagoda]

Okay, those cranial estimates for the holotype are really exaggerated; I was referring to the estimated specimen.

[scenic flame]

Why? Do we have a precedence for larger individual Theropods always or near always having proportionally larger skulls to smaller specimens even if both are skeletally mature?

[undone rapids]

Is it? I thought the type was a bit larger

[fossil ingot]

Size is also rather determined by weight
Doubt a Giga of the same length is lighter than Meraxes

[grizzled pagoda]

We are referring to carcharodontosaurids, which are known for their broad and tall skulls, especially the Apexes or sub-apexes

[queen oar]

problem here would be that most Allosaurs that we know great samples of cranial remains, have shown that despite size differences, they have pretty consistent proportions... ( Unless Epanterias and the " Monster " are just individual variation )

[grizzled pagoda]

Does skull width determine bite force or pressure generated?

[scenic flame]

Right, so is this a concretely established trend for Carcharodontosauria then? What is the evidence to suggest that individuals larger by individual variation always have proportionally larger skulls?

[warped peak]

What does being an apex predator have to do with skull morphology lmao

[queen oar]

Problem here would be something like the Giganotosaurus holotype dentary, and the paratype dentary, those two are, although claimed to be roughly the same size, proportionally different, and therefore imply a certain degree of proportional inconsistency.

[grizzled pagoda]

We don't need evidence, unless you want to delve deeper into the subject, which isn't really necessary to solve this question; simply comparing the cranial proportions of carcharodontosaurids with dinosaurs from other families, such as megaraptors or megalosaurids, is enough.

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[warped peak]

You do realize that cranial dimensions vary by individual level

There's not nearly enough of a dataset to make these claims for Carcharodonts as they're allergic to preservation

[undone rapids]

There's no carch with a sample size large enough to know proportional changes through growth/size, except like a few mapus which are their own headache cuz bonebed

[outer tusk]

what did I miss

[grizzled pagoda]

Just look and compare and you'll see that carcharodontosaurids are known for their broad, generic skulls.

[scenic flame]

also why are you using the term "apex" and more importantly "sub apex" here?

[warped peak]

that's not really true. Almost all Carnosaur skulls are shaped like that

And a huge portion of Coelurosaurs tbh, and Ceratosaurs

[grizzled pagoda]

Apex: the largest dinosaurs in the family. Sub-Apex: medium-to-large-sized dinosaurs in the family.

[queen oar]

But Wes, Spinosaurs are Carnosaurs.

[warped peak]

That's not what those terms mean

Apex means the top predator in an environment, the highest trophic level. This is almost universally achieved by a tendency to feed on other predators.

[scenic flame]

The previous statement has literally no bearing on the question I'm asking though, you are stating that Carcharodontosaurs have the unique trait that Individuals who are larger purely from an individual variation standpoint ALWAYS have a proportionally larger skull than a smaller individual of the same species.

This statement is just made up on the spot and not an actual term used by anyone.

[opal kite]

eg in a garden a cat is an apex

[grizzled pagoda]

There is a very big difference between the skull of carnosaurs and the skull of carcharodontosaurids; I can tell them apart from afar.

[undone rapids]

Carchs are carnosaurs, along with megalos, spinos, metris, allosaurus, piats

[warped peak]

Carcharodonts are carnosaurs silly

[outer tusk]

theropods are theropods ah

[queen oar]

Well, aren't Birds Theropods?

[fossil ingot]

Lol

[warped peak]

For example

[grizzled pagoda]

They are distant, but yes. And I've already said that it's easy to differentiate the skull of a carnosaur from that of a carcharodontosaurid.

[queen oar]

Ah of course, the ugly f$ck Neovenator.

[fossil ingot]

Neovenator mogs all

[warped peak]

No? They are not distant

Carcharodonts are derived Allosauroid carnosaurs. And not by a large margin

[sullen cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/why-what-in-the-hell-oh-god-pizza-house-on-fire-gif-15536410

[scenic flame]

No, Carcharodontosaurs ARE Carnosaurs, you cannot evolve out of a clade.
You may be confusing CarnoSAUR with CarnoTAURus.

[true juniper]

No theyre sharks lol

[undone rapids]

Carnosaurs is a large clade that ussually has Megalosauroids(megalosaurids and Spinosaurids) and Allosauroids(Allosaurids, Metriacanthosaurids, Piats and Carchs)

[outer tusk]

NO THEY'RE ANIMALS

[hybrid saddle]

Yes

[queen oar]

Biggest Sh#tpost Carcharodontosaur ever.

[fossil ingot]

ANIMALS ARE ANIMALS

[grizzled pagoda]

Oh yes, I confused carnosaurus with carnotaurus, sorry.

[outer tusk]

the animal that started it all

[undone rapids]

Carchs are very different from Carnotaurus, because carnotaurus is extremely Unique and distant

[true juniper]

Anyone else see that one new piatnitzkysaurus skeletal and how its head is eeny teeny itsy bitsy

[grizzled pagoda]

Is this elephant's cousin?

[queen oar]

@kind bane you becoming famous.

[fossil ingot]

Majunga mogs

[undone rapids]

Yeah, its great.

[true juniper]

Piatnitzkysaurus only need one popcon

[grizzled pagoda]

Whether its skull was larger or smaller in proportion, Meraxes will always be my favorite dinosaur for several reasons

[queen oar]

Can only rely on Justice and Beagliam reconstructing Carnosaurs. It's peak material.

[true juniper]

This is the real meraxes giganotosaurus proportion head length or whatever you guys have been arguing about

Btw i feel like Piatnitzkysaurids have a very different feeding style and ecology when i look at how tiny this ones skull is

[fossil ingot]

The True Peak

[undone rapids]

Those Plates Are great

[kind bane]

Thotes plates are in fact peaked

[queen oar]

@kind bane also, do you plan to go back into Dakotaraptor again, or " Hell naw! " ?

[grizzled pagoda]

@stiff osprey Let me ask you something: does having a wider skull mean that Giganotosaurus also possesses the strongest proportional bite force within its family?

[kind bane]

Here is the figure of the plate used

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/soldier-bucket-running-away-expiration-date-inhuman-thoughts-gif-21691393

[kind bane]

I will wait on more research that may or may not be done on Dakotaraptor in the future so we can actually tell what is and is not Dakotataptor

Winded way of saying that until more eyes get on the specimen I plan on not touching it

[queen oar]

Would you vote to destroy or preserve the Dakotaraptor taxonomic name?

[stiff osprey]

It's possible, although we don't have up to date studies on the bite force of carcharodontosaurs other than Acrocanthosaurus

[kind bane]

I have no opinion on whether it stays or is sunk into obscurity.

[true juniper]

Dakotaraptor was something before it got fossilized
Only Confirmed fact abt it
It lived before it died

[queen oar]

smh imagine not having a stance on such a unimportant matter!!!

[outer tusk]

k,z

[true juniper]

Thank you for your riveting comment on this Matter

[kind bane]

I think Dakotaraptor is a perfectly fine name and generally I err on the side of wanting the name preserved, unless the material the name is anchored to is objectively sunken into another name (Example: Becklespinax as a name can die) or is a junior synonym of another animal (Example Creosaurus atrox)

It just depends on what other people looking at the material think and decide to go with.

[grizzled pagoda]

In fact, skull width and height matter, but not as much as other factors, such as cranial depth, muscle insertion area, mandibular robustness, cervical musculature, biomechanical leverage of the mandible, structural resistance of the skull, etc. That is, just because the Giganotosaurus has a larger skull doesn't automatically mean it will have greater bite force/bite pressure, because bite force doesn't depend solely on dimensions. As an example, we have the jaguar and the lion or tiger, which, although the lion or tiger has larger and wider skulls, the jaguar possesses a proportionally greater bite force.

[stiff osprey]

Like I said, we would need an in depth study of the skulls to be able to tell

[mental cloak]

No need for that
Just trust

[queen oar]

Let's say, WE gave you the rights give a new name to the material, what would you choose?

[grizzled pagoda]

I believe that the Meraxes has great potential for proportional bite force; I'm continuing to study this to find out more.

[kind bane]

I dunno, I haven't thought of what I'd want the material to be named

[queen oar]

damn.

[sullen cairn]

sudakotaraptor

[undone rapids]

Tyrantraptor ofcourse, it stole from the three tyrants it lived with

[kind bane]

Maybe name it after one of the underworld rivers in greek mythology, except Phlegethon because that has an awful mouthfeel, I'unno I'll leave it to people who'd actually be looking at the material

[queen oar]

Tyrannoraptor? Dynamoraptor? Gigaraptor?

[waxen jewel]

I would name it brontoraptor because I think “thunder thief” is epic and is wasted being a nomen nudum

[queen oar]

You still struggling with that

[waxen jewel]

I’ll never be happy

[queen oar]

You are Paleo's own " Sisyphus "

[waxen jewel]

Truly

[kind bane]

Brontoraptor is an objectively great name

[waxen jewel]

Tbh tyrannoraptor is baller too I can’t lie

[kind bane]

Also a really nice specimen, great bone quality and roughly like 30-40% complete

[runic heart]

I believe it could still be called dakotaraptor

[paper parcel]

Hyrax moment, the most mammal mammal of all time

[kind bane]

Unless the name is anchored on a specific bone and that bone is sunk into another animal, then I agree. I'd need to look at the description again though

The name Dakotaraptor is anchored to the entire specimen, no specific bone

[runic heart]

Holtz had a comment on this, I’m trying to find it.

[kind bane]

Here is what the Holotype is explained as

[finite estuary]

ur probably Diogenes

[paper parcel]

So someone speculated that if the kto never happened megatheropods would just keep getting bigger and keep shrinknig their arms

[coral forge]

well thats definetly too big for an obligate biped but I do feel like tyrannosaurids would have just kept getting bigger heads and smaller arms until they become bobbleheads with abelisaur arms

[undone rapids]

Abelisaurs already got pretty close to it, the universe knew they were getting too close to Perfection and had to Meteor them

[outer tusk]

I gonan find it but some did do some pretty soild armless theropods

[warped peak]

Its funny to me that the legs most closely resemble Spinosaurus

[loud pine]

Okay back now and time for the changes and to make sure I understood the responses correctly:

• Giganotosaurus: becomes a forest dwelling ambush predator that utilizes forest edges before bolting out to attack prey
• Meraxes: the smaller sauropod prey specialists that also prey on ground sloths and roam a more generalized range including forests and grasslands.
• Tyannotitan: becomes the other large prey specialist of a similar standing as Giganotosaurus but dwelling in more wetland and riparian areas

[stiff osprey]

seems good

[loud pine]

Oh thats the Gourmand from The New Dinosaurs by Dougal Dixon. Heres the original piece and a remake by Mark Witton.
The Gourmand went full scavenger

[balmy oyster]

“Went full scavenger”

Okay gsp

[velvet burrow]

I really love this damn thing man, i need me more of Piatnitzkysaurus instead of that f*ckass yankee chud Marshosaurus

[loud pine]

Whats a gsp

[velvet burrow]

A GSP also known as a Gregory S. Paul is a particular type of amateur "paleontologist" and serial taxonomical vandal

Also the one that says full scavenger is the other guy, not GSP

[balmy oyster]

It’s worse because he’s not an “amateur” and has been in the field for decades

He’a degraded as of this decade, not fully sure why

[loud pine]

Ah.

I like the Cutlasstooth from it. It was very unique

[velvet burrow]

He's a functional amateur

[balmy oyster]

Number 1 rex hater

[velvet burrow]

That'd be the one reasonable thing about him

Wait isn't the other guy the rex hater?

[loud pine]

The book was released in 1988 and had some interesting speculation. Funny enough one of the first to speculate feathers on ornithopods

[velvet burrow]

What the f-
That's funny

[loud pine]

Do like the Tree Ammonite

[balmy oyster]

Gsp is

[queen oar]

@frigid delta https://www.deviantart.com/bloodievan/art/Carnivores-Rex-1336176753

[loud pine]

Also also I would be doing a disservice speaking of Dougal Dixon and not showing his most historic piece.
-# Context these are 2 human species evolved into a predator and prey

[charred hearth]

who's the biggest industry plant dinosaur

[mental cloak]

I though u were goin to say "obligate scavenger"..i had visions of war in my mind

[ashen wedge]

Question, can we have turtosaur?

[loud pine]

The Gourmand is described as effectively just a scavenger it is incredibly massive and bulky and has a snake like jaw. It spends most of its time sleeping using itd back armor to deter predators and only gets up to gorge on carrion

[mental cloak]

Sorry i was thinking about T-Rex there

[loud pine]

Also it did get a manga adaptation so enjoy a turtosaur fighting cutlasstooths and a Gourmand eating one

[mental cloak]

These type of evo spec books are very apressiated by japan

[loud pine]

Yeah Dougal Dixon got 2 Mangas in Japan and a stop motion video

[ashen wedge]

Now…. What would one tase like?

[loud pine]

The Kraken was cool. It was a massive man o'war like ammonite

Also funny enough it had a filter feeding pliosaur the Whulk before the idea was popularized

[runic heart]

Where is Acrocanthosaurus placed currently along carcharodontosaurids? It always seemed to me like it should probably be closer to allosaurus.

[outer tusk]

but it's not

[queen oar]

Acrocanthosaurus.

[mortal musk]

Dino

[ashen wedge]

It’s placed where it’s placed

[balmy oyster]

Before the carcharodontosaurus leaning stuff but after the neovenator & lusovenator leaning stuff

[runic heart]

Oh I see

[queen oar]

D i n o s a u r i

[paper parcel]

Turtosaur is literally just a more extreme version of ampelosaurus/alamosaurus lol

[loud pine]

Saltasaurus true peak

[paper parcel]

Cotylorhynchus reaction

[loud pine]

Wait just realized Ampelosaurus wouldn't be discovered for a year after Turtosaurus

[mortal musk]

https://tenor.com/view/dino-chromedino-dinodark-dinodarkmode-dinosaur-gif-15516113461433781510

[runic aspen]

So... Edmarka rex hmm

[paper parcel]

can't wait for them to find the blue whale sized icythosaur, that actually filterfeeds like a whale

[violet crater]

Bring back my boi from extinction. 🥹 ✌️

[charred hearth]

do you guys think cavemen were telling horror stories about mammoths decaiptating other cavemen like how modern elephants do?

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/GaelCasart/status/2058394789607854385/photo/1

Gael casas (@GaelCasart)

Salt glands yay

X · May 24, 2026, 3:48 AM

[stable sun]

How? No Carcharodontosaurid can be closer to Allosaurus, if this was true it wouldn't be a Carcharodontosaurid at all

[severe field]

I think he just means its more basal when compared to the later, very big ones

[outer tusk]

very big ones? as if acro isn't also the big one

[dusk lotus]

Would certain dinosaurs / plesiosaurs be able to live in/near saltwater, like saltwater crocodiles?

[steep atlas]

plesiosaurs were by and large marine reptiles

this new paper indicates spinosaurines had adaptations for dealing with saltwater

[outer tusk]

I don't think it does moreso just adds to the fact this thing had possible salt grands

[steep atlas]

animals develop salt glands as a response to inhabiting salty environments, most notably the ocean

seen in various birds and reptiles

[runic heart]

Where does the huge indeterminate saltasaurid come from?

[undone rapids]

Kenya, Lapurr Sandstone

[runic heart]

Ah so with titanovenator

What has larger specimens, brachiosaurus or sauroposeidon?

[outer tusk]

brachiosaurus

[novel trellis]

:

[ionic linden]

:

[queen oar]

https://x.com/i/status/2058526316752785904

Nova Stein (@Berlography)

Kinda want to model a non-morrison animal for practise. Which one should it be?

X · May 24, 2026, 12:31 PM

[true juniper]

Guys what's the current consensus on the classification of Silesaurids

[warped peak]

Basal Dinosaurs IIRC

[steep atlas]

silesauridae are basal ornithischians iirc and i think a lot of traditional "silesaurids" are a grade of dinosaurs/ornithischians

[true juniper]

How sure are we about this?

[hardy sentinel]

Did not see that coming

[steep atlas]

not super. it's still sorta debated

[glacial trail]

Is it true that Carno couldnt really ram with how skinny hes skull on the top was cus i heard something about it

[undone rapids]

It can't ram while running at 40 kph, cuz that would break its neck. But slower pushes and shoves like rhinos seem doable

[true juniper]

Maybe that’s why it had such a strong caudofemoralis longus muscle

[undone rapids]

Yeah, though that's some almost all South American abelisaurs have.

[true juniper]

I know this seems weird but is there a dinosaur that ate Insects and fish and small animals n stuff

[full lagoon]

Lots of them did and still do

[undone rapids]

alverasaurids might be insectivores iirc

[mental cloak]

Is there any big prehistoric catfish?

[cloud breach]

Some small theropod like compys or microraptor

[light osprey]

Qarmoutus hitanensis from the Late Eocene of Egypt

[mental cloak]

Thats cool

[charred hearth]

what do you feel happier when you hear

1 - new discovery about rex

2 - new discovery about spinosaurus

[coral forge]

T. rex because anything new about spinosaurus means listening to the fanboys talking about buffs and nerfs for 17 years

[queen oar]

Spino.

[ancient crystal]

The only spino discovery that would make be happy is if the genus got invalidated

[charred hearth]

damn

[queen oar]

I would be happy if T. rex turned into a Wastebasket taxa, and was teared apart.

[ancient crystal]

Torn

[undone rapids]

Spino, there's not gonna be that much new stuff on rex that isn't just "it had more muscles or was older or was biting harder than the older paper calculated, etc", meanwhile for spino we're still learning about its proportions, various adaptations, display sturctures, etc

[queen oar]

torned into pieces, sent into synonymous hell, dipped into a tub of sulfuric acid, whatever.

[ancient crystal]

Actually no, the only spino discovery that would make me happy is if somehow the spine specifically was determined to not be part of the animal

That would cause significantly more despair than it being invalidated

[queen oar]

tbf, it would be funny, if it's similar to Dilophosaurus' " crest ", where the animal had a crest, but water damage caused it to be stretched further, making it difficult to actually identify the extent of the actual crest.

[coral forge]

then there would be multiple giant hell creek theropods which would make it cooler

[ancient crystal]

Spinelesssaurus aegyptiacus

[queen oar]

Admittedly, yeah

@coral forge it would be cool if there was actually two Tyrannosaurus species, where they may be limited by range or environment conditions, assumingly similar to how prior Tyrannosaurs functioned. But hey, with Voris and Carr around, we can't get that luxury.

[ancient crystal]

mcraeensis

[queen oar]

" Actually, it is within the ' range of variation ' of T. rex "

[coral forge]

mcraeensis

[balmy oyster]

Pretty sure anyone sensible agrees mcraeensis is a separate species

[queen oar]

" Also, ' Thanatotheristes ' is a completely valid taxa. Not dubious,whatsoever "

[full lagoon]

Holy crap the rivalry is even worse than I thought

[ancient crystal]

Obviously we already have a whole bunch of Tyrannosaurus

We have T. rex, T. mcraeensis, T. horridus, T. porsus...

See, the joke is I'm being disingenuous

[arctic crane]

Peleofans long for T. rex, T. regina and T. imperator

[balmy oyster]

Tbf its not unlikely that there can be a second species of Tyrannosaurus from the HC, mainly since we know Triceratops speciated multiple times within the timeframe of the HC, so it happening for taxa like Tyrannosaurus and Edmontosaurus is very probable

[worn jasper]

T. tanneri, my favorate Late Cretaceous tyrannosaur

[ancient crystal]

Too bad longrich ruined that

GSP*

I got my paleo-hacks mixed up

[undone rapids]

wdym, Carr already said there are multiple Tyrannosaurus species, like Tyrannosaurus bataar!!!

[ancient crystal]

Wait, which T. rex are we talking about?

T. rex or T. rex?

See, the joke is I'm still being disingenuous

[balmy oyster]

“Eem, trex? Wait that’ the beetle lolz!!”

See the joke here is I’m repeating the same joke over and over for comedic effect

[ancient crystal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-yes-nodding-11ZAUfeJHojWlW

[queen oar]

Well, we at least have " T. " degrootorum

See the Joke is that... I don't know how to add to the joke, and I fumbled

[ancient crystal]

I sentence you to being unfunny

[queen oar]

Had worst.

[balmy oyster]

Well we have Allosaurud

See the joke is…uh, uhh…20 allosaurus species to be sent via cargo unloading over your house

[arctic crane]

I'm gonna Michael Crichton. All because he didn't wanna type out tyrannosaurus rex every other page

[charred hearth]

thoughts? https://x.com/Dexerto/status/2058520403731968249

Dexerto (@Dexerto)

Scientists have successfully hatched chicken chicks from 3D-printed eggs as part of an effort to eventually revive the extinct giant moa bird

X · May 24, 2026, 12:08 PM

[ancient crystal]

Tbf, he mispelled the word "animal" in the first chapter

[queen oar]

Careful! You might start saying: Climate Change isn't real.

[ancient crystal]

Science denial in MY sci-fi writer?

Its more likely than you think

[arctic crane]

He's also the reason every video about velociraptor had to dedicate 15 minutes to it being smaller than people think
All because he thought deinonychus wasn't as cool of a name

[balmy oyster]

Yayyyyyy oversized ostriches because the entirety of paleognatha is equally related to one another yahoooioiioo

[queen oar]

Tbh, I will never blame Crichton or Spielberg for that, when the root of the problem was Greg. S. Paul

Oh yeah, sure, he found out about Giraffatitan... But also, if he kept his mouth shut and didn't publish his lumping bs, " Velociraptor " antirrhopus wouldn't have happened!

[balmy oyster]

It is but it’s because of weather con

Climate change is real. Car gas and cow fart. Pollute environment. Pay no attention to celebrity private jet. Dont think. Consume more product. Beep boop.

[charred hearth]

thoughts on this logic?

[arctic crane]

I mean they died out in like the 13th century. But why chickens also can modern new Zealand still support a population of them especially since their main predator also went extinct.

[ancient crystal]

Jurassic Park is such a funny piece of writing for me

We of course all recognize the ficticious-ness of bringing dinosaurs back using mosquito blood and frog DNA. But, when it comes to the dinosaurs in the otherwise blatant sci-fi novel, suddenly people were taking every word on the page as gospel for actual paleontology. It would be like if someone read a DC comic and thought Martian Manhunter was based off a real martian from Mars.

[coral forge]

dont forget T. rex

[balmy oyster]

Wait, you mean…you mean the books and films about bringing back dinosaurs from the dead…using frog dna and blood from mosquitoes…is not fully accurate??? Whaaaaa???

[ancient crystal]

"Have we learned nothing from Jurassic Park" is said exclusively by people who did not learn anything from Jurassic Park

[lavish frigate]

I feel like they have way less wiggle room with appearance here than with the “Dire Wolves”, Moa dont have a common pop culture appearance that can overshadow the real science like Dire Wolves do with GoT and Ark

[arctic crane]

Also the book was released in 1990. Even if Crichton was an actual expert it would still be outdated now

[coral forge]

We can blame Jack Horn(y)er for the damage caused by Jurassic Park since he was the advisor

[lavish frigate]

I feel like people don’t realize the message of Jurassic Park isn’t “never ever clone things”

[queen oar]

Legit, I think I hate the fact that a lot of people want to suggest that JP was somehow " Accurate " to the time, and for instance they'll mention like Henry Wu's quote of the times being so accurate to their real counterparts, when legit anyone could interpretate this as Henry Wu trying to sell the Park's methods of reviving dinosaurs as " Effective ", rather than mention the actual visible issues with those methods.

[ancient crystal]

Y must you do this?

[arctic crane]

Speaking of Jurassic Park we really aren't going to use this technology to help currently endangered extent animals are we

[coral forge]

I feel like it's more about how you shouldn't play god with nature and that greed has consequences

[balmy oyster]

No its clearly about how rexy sucked at everything and spinosaurus was super ultra awesome

[ancient crystal]

What do you mean Henry Wu, the shady corner-cutting scientist that was said explicitly to have no idea what he was creating, isn't a reliable narrator?

[coral forge]

Jack Horner propaganda

[arctic crane]

The novel spells out the message pretty clearly
KILL ALL ENGINEERS

[stiff osprey]

michael crichton: the greed and overconfidence of billionaires literally kills people
elon musk fans on twitter: woah.... cloned extinct animals WILL escape and eat us all

[queen oar]

the film? Certainly. I just think it's funny that Crichton would've never have wroten Jurassic Park, if Gregory S. Paul haven't published any books spreading his ideas. And I do genuinely believe those were Crichton's primary sources, as he never had any interest on paleontology or have said to have read any publications.

[ancient crystal]

Jurassic park is a good example of media iliteracy as a uniquely modern problem being a myth

[lavish frigate]

The message of Jurassic park being boiled down to “wow cloning anything ever will result in hecking evil monsters that wanna kill us” is sad

[balmy oyster]

JP versus JW

[arctic crane]

The novel was playing around with people's fear of genetic engineering at the time, but obviously the message isn't cloning bad
People miss the part in the novel when Hammond has a big rant about using his bioengineering company to actually help sick people not making enough money while eating ice cream

[ancient crystal]

Instead of leopards eating faces, its velociraptors eating legs

[outer tusk]

elon musk fans ah that's new

[coral forge]

jurassic franchise really went from a story about the consequences of greed and humanity's feeling of superiority to glupsh*tto hybrid number 674000 gets beaten up by T. rex and whatever other megatheropod they decided to throw in there

[ancient crystal]

You have that backwards

A tyrannosaurus hasn't had a clear cut victory against anything since the original film

[queen oar]

I think we kinda have to come into terms that Jurassic Park doesn't mean anything, and Crichton was just using the current Hysteria of the time, where everybody was afraid of " Genetically-Modified " products.

[balmy oyster]

In the last two movies it was about locusts for some reason and whatever the drex was supposed yo be (for like 3 minutes of screentime)

[coral forge]

which is why it always has to team up with some other things and use the power of friendship to kill the big bad evil thing that sometimes isnt even evil and is just being a normal animal

[ancient crystal]

Well yeah, he was a light-horror/sci-fi author, of course he was going to use modern anxieties to elevate his writing

Jurassic Park means something in so far as any novel written for its time means something

[balmy oyster]

Ember killed a para seemingly which makes it the largest solo killed thing by a rex in the franchise I believe

[arctic crane]

Hot take: I like that the real dinosaurs always beat up the ugly made up movie monsters

Cold take: Those movies are absolute dogwater and I refuse to watch them

[lavish frigate]

Wrong, the Juvenile rex had victory over Ludlow

[queen oar]

and then wrote a book about Giraffe-raptors.

[stiff osprey]

the novel has a chapter where Wu tells Hammond they should make the dinosaurs more tame and stupid to fit the public's expectations and Hammond says ''absolutely not. I want them to be real''

cut to every jurassic world movie making the dinosaurs uglier and more aggressive to fit the public's expectations

[balmy oyster]

As someone who’s seen all of them, just see the first world. Then fanfic they shut the island down from there and nothing ever happened afterwards and don’t watch dominion please.

[ancient crystal]

As one does; that is the perfectly normal next step

[charred hearth]

what had the better message, jurassic park or primeval war

[ancient crystal]

Hot take: World wasn't that bad a film

Sure it lacks any narrative depth, but in the context of an otherwise modern world with Jurassic Park as part of its history, its a perfectly fine capstone for a franchise entirely out of steam

[arctic crane]

We could probably complain all day about how the JW movies are bad, ugly, miss the point of both the original film and the novels, and are borderline unacceptable for anyone that has even a small interest in modern paleontology

[queen oar]

I didn't read Primeval War, so I know nothing about it.

[balmy oyster]

No yea world was a pretty solid film, and if it was just a standalone movie then there would be no further issues

[ancient crystal]

Its about a war that's primeval

Probably

[stiff osprey]

the message of primitive war is wouldn't it be messed up if there were dinosaurs in a war

[balmy oyster]

Something about vietnam and suchomimus and oh wowwwwww edgy super evil raptors how original

[arctic crane]

I feel the same way about the first JW film as I do about the first Star wars sequel. I thought it was ok when it first came up, but now I see it as pretty boring and paint by numbers

[ancient crystal]

The trees are speaking suchomimese

[queen oar]

they miss the point, because they aren't meant to reflect on that point and are exploring different themes. Then, enters Jurassic World Rebirth, and that's simply a " Jurassic Park " story

First Movie: Creation of a Hybrid that reflects the death of the concept of the park as a educational tool for the public, focusing on entertainment
Second Movie: We need to leave the Islands or we can't expand the lore of this franchise in any significant way, so we do that
Third Movie: Literally analogy to real companies creating problems and then profiting off them, by creating solutions only them can sell

Rebirth: " Hey, guys! Do you remember the themes of ' Man playing as God '?! Do you remember ' Ingen ' ?! Oh! As a precaution... We are going back to ANOTHER stupid island!!! "

[ancient crystal]

At some point the world map of the JP universe is going to just be islands

[queen oar]

LMFAO. Like the World Map is just dots everywhere in the Sea

[arctic crane]

I'm glad you were able to take those messages from those movies. I was only able to see them as pointless corpo cash grabs
Admittedly I'm pretty clinical when it comes to movies though

[ancient crystal]

When are we going to see a T. rex/Mosasaur hybrid called Tylosaurus rampanging around all the fake islands china keeps building?

[queen oar]

You know how in Saudi Arabia they have these like, artificial islands? Yeah, Ingen probably had asked to build 1 billion of those everwhere in the world.

[still prairie]

All the more to make poor buisness decisions...

[queen oar]

" You know what they say, John! Mistakes are only Mistakes! You gotta keep trying!!! "

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, we need a new JP movie where a baryonyx terrorizes a new fake island, call it the British Isles or something. Yeah, something blatantly fake that no one could confuse with a real place.

[stiff osprey]

Jurassic World and One Piece are set in the same universe

They even went to one of ingen's islands in the little garden arc

[queen oar]

@ancient crystal Hey what do you think of Spinosaurus? Man, I LOOOVE Spinosaurus.

[sullen swallow]

Hi chat! A reminder that this channel is for discussing palaeontology, rather than films, books or other media related to dinosaurs, thank you for understanding!
You can read our pinned messages for more info

[ancient crystal]

I think Alderon Wombat could beat one in a fight

[charred hearth]

remember when rex was the smallest out of the big 3? ( Ie giga, rex and spino )

[queen oar]

Could they?

[ancient crystal]

I remember a brief period in the early 2000s when a lot of very stupid people somehow became influential in the field and published a bunch of garbage papers with garbage methodology that have all since been thrown out

Estimating tyrannosaurus to be 3 tons at most is the same as calculating and choosing the blatant joke multiple choice answer on a math test

[queen oar]

@ancient crystal would you eat fried chicken?

[ancient crystal]

No, but I'd eat a chicken fried

[queen oar]

https://www.deviantart.com/getawaytrike/art/Rhabdodonts-1336792288

[ancient crystal]

The glupshittosaurus to end all glupshittosauruses

[queen oar]

@ancient crystal by Astrapionte

[ancient crystal]

What a cool fish

[runic rover]

World was actually very good... Until the final fight. Then it just became anime

[random zealot]

Could Yutyrannus survive in a tropical climate?

[runic rover]

Not even a hot take, only really the extremely edgy "there are only two movies" fans disagree on World being bad, but the community agreed World is a good movie.

Fk was decent enough (tho indoraptor makes no sense at all), Dominion actually made me angry, and Re-borth is just "ok time to pretend the last 10 years didn't happen"

[queen oar]

@runic rover https://www.deviantart.com/astrapionte/art/BIG-BIRDZZ-1114078037

[ancient crystal]

The real question is if a tropical climate could survive yutyrannus

[runic heart]

What’s more accurate for spinosaurus/spinosaurid neck posture? Does it curve up, or stick out more?

[ancient crystal]

It collapses in on itself into a non-geometric shape that the human eye can't make sense of

[light osprey]

Who’s the community, like collective humanity the community?

[paper parcel]

I hate jps slopasaurus dinos(indom, "velos", and distortus rex"

[ancient crystal]

Hot take, the hate for JP's "velociraptors" is overdone and derivative

[mental cloak]

It turns into a blackhole

[ancient crystal]

In his house at R'lyeh, dead Spinosaurus waits dreaming.

[mental cloak]

I like to think they r utahraptors
The Jw ones at least

[mental cloak]

Tbh i kinda like indominus and indoraptor in some level
The other ones are just sloppy to say the least

[runic heart]

Indoraptor’s sloppy. I like how it builds on the intentions of the indominus in Jurassic world; “imagine that thing, a fraction of the size”; but other than that, it’s kinda meh. Indominus is peak of fictional dinosaurs.

[mental cloak]

I still like indoraptor even with it's flaws

[ancient crystal]

The indoraptor is the worst thing that could possible have happened to the community

[queen oar]

@ancient crystal If you were a Lion, what do you think would be your favorite food?

[rich vessel]

Were they raised as one or suddenly became one?

[queen oar]

open to interpretation.

[rich vessel]

Ah gotcha

[ancient crystal]

Probably meat

[queen oar]

but what kind?

[ancient crystal]

Well obviously not of any herbivores, as they'll all easily kill me with their musth powers

or something

[queen oar]

There's Farm Animals, optionally. But then you might be hunted.

[mental cloak]

Then i can starve to death

[rich vessel]

What bout humans?

[ancient crystal]

Probably small penguins that inexplicably know martial arts

[queen oar]

Allegedly, Humans might not meet the nutritional values of a lot of carnivores, which would therefore, make them: a unreliable source of nutrition. There are those two Tsavo Lions, but a lot about that story could be probably exaggerated

Plus, hunting people is going to get you killed by a hunter/poacher.

[rich vessel]

Fair enough

[ancient crystal]

Who'd of thought the animals that consistently suffer dietary issues and fail to meet their own nutritional demands despite having an entire planet's worth of food at their disposal would themselves be unnutritious

[runic heart]

See, this is what I’m saying.

Morrison formation game, but it’s only sauropod combat, for territory or food or whatever other reason.

[ashen wedge]

Apatosaurus vs Brontosaurus battle each other over the right for being the King of Sauropods in Pop-culture made by humans

[velvet burrow]

An Argentinosaurus arrives at a creek and starts punting the rebbachisaurids that don't get out of the way in time

[ancient crystal]

It steps on an amargasaurus and explodes

[ashen wedge]

Parasaurolophus VS Horse

My money is on Parasaurolophus cause it survived the Reality Warp that occurred

[paper parcel]

Average dinosaur "fight". we have, the largest land carnivore to ever live and able to bite through car doors, vs big feesh eater that may or may not walk on 4 legs

[charred hearth]

who do you like more:

1 - apatosaurus

2 - brontosaurus

[steep atlas]

bronto wins

[charred hearth]

@austere viper " meg should hbe the size of tylo or mosa for the game " now thats not even megalodon, also, for the most part, PoT does have accurate sizing

not everything is titan/eo oversized

[velvet burrow]

On an Astigmasaura

[ancient crystal]

Hey I have that in my left eye

[ashen wedge]

Apatosaurus because it was the original dinosaur that was “Brontosaurus” before Brontosaurus became its own species

[ancient crystal]

I think reading that gave me a brain bleed

[ashen wedge]

To make it simple, for a long time due to a misplaced different sauropod skull, it lead to Apatosaurus being called “Brontosaurus” and was the animal that was based on for the public perception of the animal, as it was rather recent within the last decade when Brontosaurus was described as a proper species and not being from the skull mishap of Apatosaurus

[icy lagoon]

@hallow spear

[hallow spear]

Indeed I’ve seen videos x photos of the rally road mount

[icy lagoon]

Has it been described yet? I had randomdinos make a skeletal I wonder how much this will change how we see stego

Idk if it’s just me but the legs look really long on it just like the apex mount 👀

[fallow mulch]

New Stego specimen?

[outer tusk]

no

[ancient crystal]

Old stego specimen?

[icy lagoon]

its new i guess

[tough parcel]

@hallow spear Give us a summarized history of the Rally Road specimen NOW

[ancient crystal]

StegoGPT

[hallow spear]

It does basically have longer legs , but in different ways. It’s longer proportionately because the tibia is shorter relative to the femur unlike the Stenops holotype.
It also has 5 thagomizers preserved hence the 3 pairs

It’s not described yet, that’s pretty much all that’s pubic about it

[ancient crystal]

StegoGPT, can you generate a comprehensive workflow to make it easier for the scientists to desciribe the specimen?

(Typing this took years off my life)

[icy lagoon]

i think stegogpt went offline bro

[ancient crystal]

Man we must've already used up all the daily memory of the current model

[mental cloak]

Bronto

[mental cloak]

U dried out the Thetys sea using it

[ancient crystal]

Skill issue for the Thetys sea

[thorn grove]

I like Pareiasaurs

[misty scarab]

brontosaurus my beloved

[thorn grove]

apato

bronto has a better name tho

[hazy basalt]

How sound is my theory that Plesiosaurs were using their necks to suction feed similar to Mata-mata turtles?

1. sneak up on fish
2. slurp in water filling the neck with water
3. this pulls the fish towards the mouth
4. mouth snaps close on the fish
5. while holding the fish the Plesiosaur expels the water through it’s partially open mouth
6. fish is swallowed

[mental cloak]

Huh
Interesting theory tho

[stiff seal]

i thought the first part said speak up at fish😭

[paper parcel]

"I love dinosaurs" The dinosaur:

[mental cloak]

The plesiosaur asks politely to the fish to enter it's mouth

[queen oar]

The Plesiosaur:

[stiff seal]

😭 lmaooo

[loud pine]

Bit odd comment to share here but hard to find many venn diagrams that share this with dinosaurs and such but...

Mentioning again that D&D dinosaur stuff I was trying to make the deity thag would be effectively Spinosaurus Poseidon (bit of context being skipped for ease of things but long and short). And before getting any artwork made I was trying to make an idea board for the ocean deep sea storm spinosaurus god and wanted to ask if it seems a good idea or something is wrong.

Won't ask this for all the deities I'll go back to utilizing the channel for the ecology questions but just wanted feedback for the first one

[mental cloak]

I think that's a peak idea and u should stick with it

[loud pine]

Thanks

[mental cloak]

How would cotylorhinchus like
Sleep
Like
Their neck where pretty short and stubby
How would they rest their head?

[zenith blaze]

maybe they crossed their arms and rested their heads on their forearms if they couldn't reach all the way to the ground with their neck

like this

dunno if their shoulder mobility would allow for it though, but it doesn't seem impossible.

They could also potentially lay down on their side maybe? I'm just shooting from the hip, I don't actually know.

[warm saddle]

Anybody got a tanycolagreus skeletal

[warm saddle]

Thank thank you lambeo man

[ancient crystal]

Do you think lambeo man dresses up as a lambeosaurus and fights crime under the cover of night in Alberta?

[coral forge]

I will once I move for college, trust

[ancient crystal]

How many sects of monks did you train under in your youth?

[coral forge]

1.3

[ancient crystal]

Oof, I fear that's not enough.

Hopefully you don't get your back broken by Edmusthosaurus in Lambeoman #497

[coral forge]

I would never
Edmusthosaurus has nothing on Lambeosaurus laticaudus

[ashen wedge]

Excuse me kind fish, would you mind getting into my mouth for a wonderful journey of adventure?

[loud pine]

Very glad we have a Freiren for scale

[ancient crystal]

Now we just need a Freiren skeletal for more context

[loud pine]

Gotta find that artist that uses like, Giovanni Giorno

[muted vector]

Spinosaurus had salt glands?
https://youtube.com/shorts/FuiIVWLrn0M?si=HLpL5XQboqZnoUYK

[loud pine]

Found them it was Gunnar Bivens

[outer tusk]

here's one in a 'netural pose'

[warm saddle]

Is that marine from hololive

[loud pine]

Yes

[warm saddle]

Mumei,kiara,and amelia

[mental cloak]

Thats cute ngl

[outer tusk]

here's the newer one

[loud pine]

...yeah I have no idea who that is

[outer tusk]

that's Gunnar Bivens

[mental cloak]

Feeling bonita

[ancient crystal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/foxtv-family-guy-peter-griffin-1hAVZ7dBaGigDg4NYl

[mental cloak]

Yes

[ancient crystal]

Or did salt glands have spinosaurus?

[coral forge]

Using yourself as a scale is lowk peak. I only know like 4 people that do it though

[ancient crystal]

This is because paleontologists are short and weird

[mental cloak]

Theres to much spinosaurus in my salt glands

[coral forge]

the average person is like 5'4

[ancient crystal]

My glands are too salty and my spinosaurus to spiny

[mental cloak]

They r goblins?

[ancient crystal]

This is why they dig holes, covet bones, and are usually found in camps in the middle of nowhere with low tier loot (a reference to them not making any money)

[coral forge]

Cope is lowk a chad though

[mental cloak]

That was a funny one,shark man

[loud pine]

Literally all I think of seeing that genus name

[mental cloak]

Whats the smallest dino?(birds included)

[ancient crystal]

Bee hummingbird

[mental cloak]

Omg they r so cute:3

[loud pine]

Can't see much beating them out in the fossil record

[mental cloak]

Hairy hand

[ancient crystal]

Don't worry, we'll find a bone shard (that's totally not a piece of shale or something) that is totally from a smaller non avian

[loud pine]

https://youtu.be/BL7hEPguCx0
The things I'd do to see the Tyrantrum fossil in person...

[ancient crystal]

The big problem is you have to go to Chicago for it

[mental cloak]

We gonna find a baby non avian and call it a whole new species

[loud pine]

...hmm

[ancient crystal]

Chicago is a midwestern backwater cosplaying as a major port city

[loud pine]

Well one of my close friends is driving distance to Chicago so maybe I can ask them to go for me

[ancient crystal]

Yes... as a sacrifice to keep the chicagoans at bay

[charred hearth]

who do you like better time

1 - utahraptor

2 - achillobator

3 - dakotaraptor

[ancient crystal]

🎵 One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is a turtle 🎵

[coral forge]

A turtle, unenlagiid, and a tyrannosaur

[charred hearth]

which turtle do you like better

1 - therizinosaurus

2 - dakotaraptor

[ancient crystal]

Thalassodromeus obviously

[runic heart]

Is dakotaraptor actually more likely unenlagiid?

[coral forge]

the maniraptoran parts are generally agreed to be unenlagiidae indet afaik

[runic heart]

Hmm ok. It’s not extremely large either, is it?

[outer tusk]

it a big ass raptor

[ancient crystal]

Like a 6 foot turkey?

[coral forge]

230kg

[runic heart]

Ok so it’s still a very big dromaeosaurid

[light osprey]

The Lori Matrix gets this result based on the listed characters of DePalma (which includes many more elements that don’t belong to a Dromaeosaur) but this is no consensus among a field

[mental cloak]

Achillobator
I like achillo

I think we should revisited more of those old old fossil we have in storage to see what's up with them

[stiff seal]

utahraptor

[ionic linden]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-park-really-velociraptor-gif-11547897

[snow python]

Which one was larger: A. Europaeus or Jimmadseni?

[balmy oyster]

Jimmy

[snow python]

9m?

[polar rain]

Id there anything contradicting spinosaurus hunting like this

[lavish frigate]

What do y’all think the odds of ever finding a post Cretaceous non avian dinosaur is? In fossils I mean, ofc it’d be dead lol

I don’t see it as too impossible, especially for small birdlike stuff

[little mauve]

well most of the small birdlike stuff got wiped out too, only a handful of Aves lineages survived. Odds seem very low to me

even among mammals, the obligate herbivores and carnivores were pretty much wiped out

[paper parcel]

Nanocoelophysis

[small geyser]

Got a question: are both species of Nanotyrannus close in height to Alioramus?

[stiff osprey]

Both are decently taller than Alio. However Alio is only known from immature animals so perhaps the adult could be as tall as nano

[small geyser]

Thanks. I just had a thought about a 4th sub for Alio being inspired by either Nano species and figured I'd ask about the height here.

[charred hearth]

who had the greater comeback story, bronto or nano?

[tough parcel]

Nanotyrannus because Bronto jumps between being on death row and saved depending on the person

[outer tusk]

[stiff osprey]

Me when i lie

[polar rain]

Cus I have people completely disagreeing with this

[coral forge]

Djadochta tyrannosaur is adult alioramus, trust

[undone rapids]

Nano, Alio and Qianzhou

[polar rain]

Nanotyrannus is taller than alioramus??

[tough parcel]

There is really no explicit contradictions

[runic heart]

Alioramus?!

[tough parcel]

It's a tooth scaling based off am unpublished skull

[undone rapids]

Alio type is a much smaller, immature animal

[outer tusk]

we still got him, trust

[stiff osprey]

Iirc the morphology of the nanxiong tooth is more like Bistahieversor than Alioramus

[polar rain]

Here's their points

"It has legs smaller than a theropod thats a quarter of its size i really dont think it would be a wader"

"deep water wouldn't be so clear, which is why every seabird that hunts at sea actually goes underwater to hunt its prey"

[outer tusk]

CONNOR just can't stop making heat

[stiff osprey]

There is nothing to say Spinosaurus couldn't hunt by wading, but the reduced legs and many lines of evidence of aquatic habits mean that wading was not its only/primary hunting mode

[tough parcel]

That second point is obliterated by the fact it isn't hunting via sight, it's hunting through touch like crocodiles (pressure sensors on the snout)

[polar rain]

Thank you twins 🥹

[polar rain]

That first one with a bit of blue would go so hard

[paper parcel]

Reduced legs= four legged spinosaurus real?

[stiff osprey]

Based on living aquatic dinosaurs, spino being unable to walk and just crawling around is more likely than quadrupedal spino

[warped peak]

penguin spino

[stiff osprey]

I think it could walk bipedally, just slowly

[paper parcel]

That's just spinofaarus lol

[charred hearth]

mammoth cube son or spinofaarus daughter

[runic heart]

Did the neck of spinosaurus/spinosaurids curve upwards like a bird, or stick outwards more like other theropods?

[stiff osprey]

In neutral posture it is strongly S curved, both in Spinosaurus and baryonyx

[runic heart]

Alright

Its posture would be more like the left than the right here?

[ashen wedge]

So how’s the validity for it going?

[polar rain]

Still faster than an ankylosaurus right

Ankylosaurus walked like 6 miles per hour I think, basically jogging speed

[stiff osprey]

Left one is closer to neutral neck pose, however we have no indication of tail dragging so right one is better in that regard (and a better skeletal overall(

[runic heart]

Did Lancian ever do the spino skeletal with all the bones filled in? And is the length of the tail spines often exagerated?

[outer tusk]

yes he did do a prior spinosaurus with all the bones filled in as you do with a composite skeletal

[runic heart]

Wonder what happened between these two.

[outer tusk]

it updated

[runic heart]

Ig so

Hmm…

[outer tusk]

ah yes the spinosaurus model based on the orginal material of said taxon

[runic heart]

Yes

But nah, I was noting the posture and proportional similarities. Longer torso, thicker neck.

[full lagoon]

Speaking of Spinosaurus: https://youtu.be/Fz52y5LaQhM?si=xfPN8B1D0V2zXuf5

Just found this guy today and it's like a hidden gem

[ashen wedge]

So Spino became shorter?

[stiff seal]

i wanna know why spinos legs look so stupidly tiny

[queen oar]

Probably for balance.

[runic heart]

Was looking at this deadsound thing for Dinocon, and I’m wondering, do some hadrosaurs have neural spine-looking structures running down their backs like this? If not, why are many so often depicted like this?

[stiff seal]

i would think the opposite like its front body is huge and very long the back legs look like chicken legs lol

[queen oar]

those are ornamental scales, although similar to elongated scales, they are different in terms of structure. And yes, there's a Brachylophosaurus specimen who has those preserved.

[runic heart]

Oh interesting

[stiff seal]

imo i think it prob walked on all fours seeing how abnormal its body length is i just dont see those tiny legs keeping its body up

[runic heart]

We’ll know more about the arms when that Brazilian spino is described.

[stiff seal]

i hope so cus rn i think the idea of it being a biped is just wrong, or they have its posture wrong

[fossil ingot]

Evolution

[fossil ingot]

No Spinosaur seems to show any kind of evolution to walk on all 4 and Spinos center of Gravity is for a bipedal animal, and the Arms of the Brazilian Spinosaur simply indicates Robusts arms that are proportionally longer than some of the family but don't seem long enough to be bipedal based on what has been leaked, since the animal is still shown bipedal

[stiff seal]

i hope one day we get a actually complete and still in tact skeleton of spino

[queen oar]

So, realistically, Spino doesn't have short legs. If you remove the sail, you'll notice the legs have a consistent proportions to those of other theropods, even closely related theropods like Megalosaurs, other Spinosaurs, etc

but to explain it, I don't know if any studies have touched on the fact that Spinosaurus is very front-heavy, but that fact is necessary for this. Essentially, having " longer legs " is not beneficial for Spinosaurus, due to the fact most of their weight is concentrated in one region of their body, if that region is more distant to the surface, that means the animal will only fall due to it's own weight, or will cause a significant amount of drag. If it's legs are " Shorter ", making the Animal's Torso closer to the floor, there is less pull caused by the Torso's weight towards the floor

Something related to gravity, maybe it's stupid, but essentially, closer to the floor there are more atoms and molecules in that section of the atmosphere, less closer to the floor, there are less and less atoms and molecules, which often tend to cause heavier objects to fall ( at least in the context of our Atmosphere. )

[fossil ingot]

Spino Legs are small
But they seem to still have evolved to be just strong enough to Support its weight and move around if needed
Just not been fast or anything

[undone rapids]

Long front body with short legs isn't too unusual, majungasaurus is a decent example and more older theropods

[coral forge]

This is an example of why you should view things at multiple angles. Just because they look thin from the side doesnt mean they aren't wide

[fossil ingot]

2.5m hip Height for a 14.7m Animal is pretty short tbf

[queen oar]

Wouldn't say so.

[stiff seal]

if i had to imagine spino i think of it more as moving like a croc, lazy movement on land and far better at moving in water

[fossil ingot]

Even Stuff like Torvo gets over 2.5m at like +11m
Megalo is a similsr case to Torvo
Theres very few who are that close to Spino Leg wise that aren't some possibly other Spinosaurinaes and even those are few tbh

[undone rapids]

Fun fact : The spinosaurus Neotype(a 11ish meter animal) has the same femur length as the largest Utahraptor(a 5ish meter animal)

[fossil ingot]

The Goat

[queen oar]

I think it is just a matter of visual illusion really. Cuz Spinosaurus are big on other dimensional aspects, at least, in height and length, those aspects are prioritized in our observation. Otherwise, if those aspects weren't present, Spinosaurus really has average legs, if anything they do not differ from other theropods.

[fossil ingot]

Also we kinda have an idea how long the Brazilian Spinosaur Arms
Spinosaurus Mirabilis arms are 90% based on that since they even compare its Tibia with it
So they 100% know about the specimen Material, and the Arms Posture and size matches that of the skeletal leaked of the brazilian guy

[stiff seal]

they arent even really wide imo

[runic heart]

I believe its legs are also longer.

[undone rapids]

Well yeah, the legs would be average if they were on an average theropod. But for its length they're pretty short

[fossil ingot]

Spino still has Proportionally shorter legs than even Megalosaurus and other Close relatives
Thats a Fact

[queen oar]

Wouldn't say so. I would say it's consistent really.

[coral forge]

theyre wide enough

[fossil ingot]

Ehh
Based on the skeletal leaked which I do have it
Leg Proportions seems similar enough to aegyp

[coral forge]

and a 15 meter spinosaurus is shorter at the hip than a 6? meter nanotyrannus

[stiff seal]

im sticking with my idea of how spino stood and moved i just think biped is sillie and just not possible for a creature with such a long frontal area plus how heavy it would have been,

i do not think it could move on 2 legs without falling lmao

[fossil ingot]

Nano is also disgustingly tall lol
But Megalosaurus is taller at the Hip than Spinosaurus, so is Suchomimus, Baryonyx, Whatever Spinosaurus B is

[undone rapids]

It is possible? It'd just nead to rear up a bit more. Just because something looks silly, doesn't mean it wasn't real

[fossil ingot]

The thing is
Its very possible and the animal anatomy suggests its Bipedal
We don't have any argument that is quad other than "legs are to small"

[stiff seal]

the legs are small and its front body is super long and heavy

[queen oar]

@fossil ingot btw, you mention the " Brazilian Spinosaur " sometimes, but I gotta ask, is it that one that has like a Tyrannosauroidea claw or something like that?

[fossil ingot]

The Legs are Wide and Strong enough for it to walk
Just not run or be fast,
And Agnes already explained why despite legs been "short" doesn't make it incapable of Walking Bipedal
Again
Nothing suggests its Quad
Like nothing on its Material ir Close relatives
Hell every close relative just keeps showing this guys just stood bipedal despite the short legs

[stiff seal]

and i do not see a world where its tail is gonna balance out the front heacy body,

only way i see it being a biped is if its stance is changed to be more upwards

[runic heart]

I feel like it makes sense that spinosaurus was so large and weirdly aquatic. It had to tackle some of the largest freshwater fish ever.

[queen oar]

Diagonal?

[fossil ingot]

Don't think so?
I am talking about the guy we saw on the Mirabilis Supplementary Paper, this Guy also Got a Skeletal Leaked some months ago
Maybe even 1 year ago, so we know what most of the material it has including big parts of its arms
Tho don't sure the leaked skeletal shows how the claws are
Would have to double check

[queen oar]

pretty sure that skeletal was just a copy and paste Spinosaurus skeletal, no? But yeah, it's a different specimen then.

[fossil ingot]

Yes, but different arms and Posture
Mirabilis Paper Skeletal uses the same Posture
Its a Sereno's Spino but modified with different arm posture to match the proportions of this guys arms
But yeah Don't think claws are different than normal
Ofc I am.not gonna show thw whole thing

[queen oar]

That would be the first or second digit?

[fossil ingot]

Lowkey ehh
Think its a Foot claw?
Like from the middle?

Really hard to tell from the picture we have
But is the only "claw" there

[queen oar]

No, it's probably from the hand, I'd say. It looks like a second digit, at least to me. The problem here it's mostly that it definetly does not look like a Spinosaur claw, and something more like what a Coelurosaur of sorts would have, but then again I don't know the conditions of this specimen.

[fossil ingot]

Arm

[queen oar]

Probably would fit with what I had planned for Spinosaurus, but the image's quality is ahh.

[fossil ingot]

Yeah

[queen oar]

Although, given how it's reconstructed, with what seems to be more close to a Baryonyx or Suchomimus arm, I'm gonna say it's probably related to Irritator and Angaturama, rather than Oxalaia, Spino, and mirabilis.

[fossil ingot]

All we really have is the Screenshot that was shared and then deleted
And I have real no idea if the quality can be increased LOL

[queen oar]

don't think that's possible.

[fossil ingot]

The Guy is included here

[fossil ingot]

The Quality of the 1dt Pic decided to explode I see
Anyways all this is from the Mirabilis Supplementary Paper so not hard to find

[queen oar]

Still wouldn't say it's related to those guys, but admittedly, I have my own Hypothesis for Spinosaurinis. So, not something that I can use to argue.

[runic heart]

Would titanosaurs, and other sauropods, have had their necks sticking out diagonally, or S curved upwards?

[balmy oyster]

Like the right image

[runic heart]

Alright

[queen oar]

@warped peak https://x.com/Beagliam/status/2058978297338380306?s=20

Liam Power (@Beagliam)

Castoroides dilophidus skeletal, realizing I never posted this. This gigantic beaver from Florida is incredibly bobbleheaded. While it may not have built dams like its modern cousin, it is still incredibly cool in its own right. Also, it likely didn’t have a paddled tail.

X · May 25, 2026, 6:27 PM

[stiff osprey]

Safe to say any sauropod will have an S curved neck unless it is physically impossible for the vertebrae to do that (ie brachytrachelopan)

[queen oar]

tbh, Alamosaurus had thicker ligaments. So maybe, it was for that reason?

[stiff osprey]

he's trying

[runic heart]

So then for brachiosaurs, it would also be more like the right?

[mental cloak]

Be nice to him

[scenic flame]

the left isn't brachi, also giraffa is in more for a reference position rather than a natural one

[runic heart]

Ik

[scenic flame]

oh wait I misread that lol mb

[queen oar]

it's " Brachiosaurus " brancai, trust

[outer tusk]

updated brick's brachi

[mental cloak]

Giraffatitan*

[outer tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227097371767472249/1497464066283929631/attachment.gif

[dire stag]

which sauropods used their tails offensively as whips?

[stiff osprey]

most of them, probably

[mental cloak]

Prolly many of them
Like apato and diplo those bein the most famous ones in that regard

But like due to most sauropods bein huge af i think they used their size as a offensive weapon in general me thinks

[balmy oyster]

Rugocaudia

[lofty creek]

why thalassomedon so fat

twice the weight of its fellow huge elasmos

even heavier than aristo

anything special about this animal that made it so heavy?
it seems that it's not notably larger

[little mauve]

I think we only have one pathological sauropod tail that might indicate its use as a weapon, I think the evidence for the whip tail hypothesis is somewhat lacking compared to how confidently it's stated

[runic heart]

Wait, why is it so fat

[granite thicket]

Thalassomedon is bulkier than ones like styxo but idk how it outweighs aristonectes lol

[queen oar]

I think it's funny how Eusauropods developed clubs, and then no other sauropod group tried to do this again.

Makes you question the benefits and non-benefits of that feature.

[wind prairie]

wait yeah what

[lofty creek]

oh
nvm
SGO PV 597 was not the largest specimen and likely a subadult

but still

how thalassomedon got twice the weight while having the very similar size to its fellows

[queen oar]

What do we know about Plesiosaur ontogeny? Because, if there isn't much changes from Subadult to Adult, then yeah, that is quite the " Overestimation. "

[lofty creek]

so a better way is just directly enlarge that specimen to 12 metres in length

and only heavier than thalassomedon by like 1 ton
bro wth
why thalassomedon so chunky

[charred hearth]

whos your favorite morisson sauropod?

1 - apato ( and bronto )

2 - brachi

3 - diplodocus

4 - camarasaurus

[lavish frigate]

Saurophaganax fr

[balmy oyster]

Apato and bronto are very different from one another!!!

But also I like Apato

[queen oar]

Thalassomedon has any complete sister-taxa? Specifically with complete ontogeny

[wind prairie]

aren't they getting lumped again soon or something

[dire stag]

nice

[queen oar]

Dyslocosaurus.

[balmy oyster]

Excelsus is, parvus should be fine

Not sure where yahhnapin is headed

[queen oar]

I thought B. excelsus had enough material to differentiate from A. ajax, no?

[balmy oyster]

ajax? ajax is its own mess, I was referring to “Apatosaurus” louisae

Plus excelsus’s holotype was described after it had plaster and whatnot mingled in apparently, which may make it undiagnostic.

[queen oar]

material being undiagnostic isn't really a argument that allows to lump that material into a different species nor genera. Otherwise the identity of AMNH 5116 would've been settled decades ago.

[balmy oyster]

Ok but it was described after Plaster was used

Otherwise the identity of AMNH 5116 would’ve been settled decades ago.

I like your hopeful thinking

[queen oar]

Yes, but then the argument should be IF the material had feats that made it diagnostic to " A. " louisae, not " It's undiagnostic, so we are going to put into a different genera and species, despite knowing it's undiagnostic "

[balmy oyster]

See the reason why AMNH 5116 hasn’t been resolved is because nobody cares. Which is different to the excelsus type because at least people cared to go back and look at it again

[balmy oyster]

excelsus type had plaster on it while being described, and from the looks of it some parts of that plaster were described as diagnostic features, which is troublesome

[queen oar]

Not really. AMNH 5116 was described by Leidy, and unlike every Triceratopsini from the Lance Formation for instance, it doesn't have unreliable information. The thing is that quite simply, details about how it looked when it was found, and prior to being plastered, are simply not present anywhere. Yet, again, it's why people are so divided on it being a Torosaurus or Triceratops, and Horner even took the opportunity to add to it's " Torosaurus = Triceratops " hypothesis, despite the fact that it changed nothing about the specimen as a whole.

[runic heart]

Supersaurus is underrated

[queen oar]

right, but how it would be " A. " louisae? I guess I'm not fully understanding that.

[balmy oyster]

Ion know, guess we’ll figure it out when the material is presumably scanned to understand what is and isn’t plaster

It’s entirely possible it’s still diagnostic as its own thing or even still brontosaurus, but the plaster just needs to be excluded first

[queen oar]

Okay, did someone actually confirm that is going to be the case? Like, it IS going to get scanned?

[balmy oyster]

Wouldn’t it be the only way to fully determine between real fossil and plaster? Unless there’s other good methods to do so

[queen oar]

No, fishy. Listen, I'm asking you, was that actually confirmed? Because otherwise, I don't see any hope.

[balmy oyster]

Good question. Let me see if there’s any mention of it anywhere on discord

Nope can’t see it anywhere. It’s joever

I did ask the question tho so I’ll wait and see for a response

[queen oar]

Nothing ever happens.

[icy lagoon]

Saurophaganax

[hallow spear]

Old message but we have evidence stegosaurs did eat cycad seeds, so yuh

[charred hearth]

are you saying that because its actually your favorite or just " haha large therapod was actually a sauropod "

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/blue-color-gif-26141026

[queen oar]

yeah Isaberrysaura

[runic heart]

Brachiosaurus prob

[charred hearth]

in a realistic scenario where they did somehow co-exist, is the pachy escaping or would the pynco be able to catch up in time?

[outer tusk]

the depends on the scenario

[charred hearth]

its the scenario happening in the picture

[queen oar]

escaping.

[charred hearth]

do we have any speed estimates for pachy? i never really though about that actually

[mental cloak]

Depends
I think if the pycno do a ambush. Pachy might not have a succecifull escape

[outer tusk]

it surly is possible

[balmy oyster]

It isn’t because abelisaurs are blacklisted from the North American continent

[hardy sentinel]

https://youtu.be/DfsPNZlRA_Y?si=tCULU1glzI13zI0w

Okay guys, this is peak (tho the chicken does seem a bit uncomfortable with the tail)

[stiff osprey]

I stopped trying to watch after the sixth ad oh my god

it's not even a ten minute video

[queen oar]

YouTube moment.

[hardy sentinel]

basically, he gives the chicken a tail and has furries help make it

Absolute Youtube

[undone rapids]

Still holding out hope for some to have made it to like Mexico by the very end

[queen oar]

also just get a adblocker, Random.

[hardy sentinel]

yo guys I found my old spinosaurus depiction

[queen oar]

Although a Abelisaur in places like Ojo Alamo, Javelina and other places would be cool, it would be incredible to find a Hell Creek Abelisaur.

[thorn grove]

Canadian Abelisaur

[velvet burrow]

Inawentu

[velvet burrow]

I'm gonna throw up if that happens

[queen oar]

You know you doomed yourself by typing that, yeah?

[velvet burrow]

No don't tell me that

[queen oar]

" Very poor choice of words "

[velvet burrow]

Are there remains?

Nice

[queen oar]

@outer tusk I have an idea for you. More like a Challenge, really.

[stiff seal]

apato all day

[outer tusk]

k

[queen oar]

I forgor.

[paper parcel]

peak

[stiff seal]

oh yeah i saw this peak

[mental cloak]

I don't like this video that much

[balmy oyster]

Duality

[mental cloak]

I mean nothing agaisn't the guy but idk i don't like his videos in general

[light osprey]

Luckily it’s on the list of things that will never happen

[charred hearth]

can someone explain to me the origins of apatos neck bumps / spikes?

[queen oar]

It's cuz the cervical ribs of Apatosaurs have these stranges bumps on their surface, unlike other Sauropods

[charred hearth]

and are these accurate repersentations of how it would look?

[queen oar]

idk really.

[stiff seal]

lmao

[mental cloak]

I personaly like it even tho i preffer it not bein all the way up the head

[mental cloak]

Also what r those cubby bois at the third image

[charred hearth]

BoB apato

[mental cloak]

Very chubby
Very powerfull

[rich forum]

I know Bahariasaurus is very unclear to ehat it is classified under, but is there a "more agreed upon" clade it belongs to right now?

[balmy oyster]

Diffused between noasaur wrong and megaraptoran based on discord et al correct

[rich forum]

Gotcha. I have an opportunity to 3D print a bahariasaurus that is based on a noasaurid. But I didnt know if say the megaraptoran route was the most "up to date" or not

[granite thicket]

Either noasaurid or megaraptoran

[balmy oyster]

I recommend coelurosaur leaning, this skeletal is a good representation of it

[granite thicket]

Personally I lean more towards noasaurid cause I don't think there's an african megaraptoran rn

[rich forum]

Fair enough. I love megaraptorans, however a massive noasaur absolutely grabs my attention

[balmy oyster]

It doesn’t help that the second largest “noasaur” deltadromeus may potentially not be one either and end up being a ornithomimosaur, which means the two previous largest noasaurs are both coelurosaurs

[granite thicket]

Also, rly scrappy material as well

[stiff osprey]

that has to be the worst theropod neck silhouette i've ever seen

[thorn grove]

the head and neck have just fused into one entity

[warped peak]

Baharia is the most unhelpful dinosaur known

• Fragmentary
• Possibly chimeric
• The traits are a hellish mishmash
• Potential closest relative is also a horrific mishmash of uncertain affinity
• Got blown up

[thorn grove]

lack of cranial material certainly doesnt help either

[kind bane]

You can get a diagnostic skeleton without cranial material

[thorn grove]

yea but it doesnt help

[kind bane]

I mean, yes it doesn’t help, but there is no real point on fixating on the lack of a skull when there are plenty of other issues with it as a taxon

[thorn grove]

i was just tacking it onto an existing list :(

[kind bane]

Sorry I may have misunderstood the point of mentioning it.

I’ve often seen folks completely disregard specimens and taxonomy because of a lack of cranial material so I probably jumped to conclusions. My bad

[queen oar]

Fishy genuine question, if this is a megaraptor, wouldn't it be weird for animal that would mostly utilize it's arms to have such a short and thin shoulder?

Especially when other large megaraptors ( who at least have their scapula preserved ) show the opposite?

[balmy oyster]

1. we already have very little megaraptoran material to begin with, and even then the ones that do have limb bones show varying proportions

2. this would be a basal ancestor to later Cretaceous relatives, and it’s out of the ordinary for basal relatives to not have as extensive features compared to derived ones

Like how basal tyrannosaurs had longer and larger arms (nano) to things as rex and tarbo

[queen oar]

That is barely similar.

[queen oar]

Okay, but are you saying that it wouldn't be like a typical megaraptor then? Like, I think that's kinda the point about them, they are pretty derived by default.

[coral forge]

That doesnt mean there can never be one. They are known from Albian and Cenomanian Brazil, which was pretty much just a clone of north africa at that time, so it's not exactly unreasonable to assume they cant be in Africa

[queen oar]

Only Issue: Most ( confirmed ) megaraptors from South America are geologically younger than the Cenomanian. With most ( confirmed ) older genera being found mostly in Asia.

Of course, we could be broad and mention potential " megaraptors. "

[coral forge]

There are confirmed megaraptors from the lower albian of eastern brazil, which is pretty close stratigraphically to the formations where Bahariasaurus is known from. Also your point about them originating in Asia brings up the topic of how they even got to South America. There are no megaraptor fossils in north america and there was no land bridge, so the only reasonable way for them to have even reached South America in the first place was to travel through north Africa.

[queen oar]

Confirmed how exactly?

[coral forge]

Identified as belonging to megaraptora...?

[queen oar]

Yes, but how? What method was used to identify it as such?

[river plinth]

How they get all that from 3 good bones 💀

[queen oar]

Is it a 2018 paper?

[coral forge]

Its been recovered as a megaraptor in pretty much every phylogeny its ever been added to based on the morphplogy of its vertebrae.
iirc it was initially referred to megaraptora in Rolando et al., 2017

[queen oar]

It uses two different modified matrixes, a Non-Tyrannosaur Coelurosaur one and a Carnosaur one. In both SMNS 58023 are found to be a megaraptor

[coral forge]

I know

[queen oar]

I wouldn't exactly bet on fragmentary sacrals and caudals to represent a basal megaraptor. Not judging tho.

[coral forge]

bro doesn't know the average megaraptor material

[balmy oyster]

Tbf if someone is deadset on thinking something, there’s little you can do to convince otherwise unless you spend a lot of time picking out every minute detail ever

Vertebrae can also be pretty diagnostic too

I would argue for baharia’s placement more deeper than “look source trust” but I’m more invested in things like Allosaurids and ceratopsians n whatnot, while megaraptorans are a mess and have no staple specimens

Best solution is to go excavating for more bahariasaurus specimens but that’s never going to happen!

Then again I’m not entirely closed against the idea of noasaur baharia, I just have not heard of any convincing argument that doesn’t just result in “look at a single bone that’s superficially similar to deltadromeus while ignoring the rest of the specimen(s)!”

[queen oar]

I would only argue that it's weird to use a specimen who shares more traits with derived megaraptors, nothing with other basal megaraptors, has similarities to Neovenator ( somehow ) and who only relatives that are as " Equal " in terms of traits are other potential " megaraptors "

[balmy oyster]

Well if you read that blog I kept yapping on about it also talks about things like aoniraptor & indeterminate megaraptora applicable specimens & matrix’s, otherwise this just feels like a cycles argument where nobody gets anywhere cause no reading is done

Though if you really want to talk with mr. baharia himself just talk with ThePaleoFreak I think they’re in this server

I wonder where my drive has gone

I wonder what the bahariasaurus thinks of people arguing about whatever its remains had it look like

[queen oar]

Fishy, to no offense, but I am still dumbfounded that I asked you how that blogpost showed any potential of Baharia being a megaraptor, and you couldn't cite anything from memory. While understandably this is demanding too much, you're expecting me to be convinced as much as you, which is why I've opted to ask your perspective on that blogpost, to effectively understand what convinced you.

[balmy oyster]

I would explain but in full seriousness maybe I just don’t care enough about this topic as I thought I did. I mean sure I provided my reasonings why but like…this isn’t a hill I’m very bothered to die on.

[queen oar]

I don't think you really think it's a megaraptor. That's my opinion.

[balmy oyster]

I was convinced because there was effort put into the matrix and looking into the material that wasn’t half baked like cau’s weird description paper, and comparing the vertebrae to something like gualicho (which is currently noasaur) and both baharia and other megaraptors dont sit next to it and yadda yadda

[balmy oyster]

No I’m convinced it is megaraptoran. I just don’t want to debate over an animal that has capability of good research but no person in the science field bothers to genuinely look at it aside from kids on discord.

What a weird science field this is. I feel like a partial amount of notable discussions just come from random small discords instead of genuine peer reviewed papers. (Course most does come from people who are genuinely experts in the field but I find it funny how a random teen can come up with a better mockup osteology than actual official paleontologists)

Frankly I don’t blame you for being convinced it is noasaur. Majority of papers around it only assign it as noasaur because it’s convenient and the status quo, and to any casual reader or researcher the descriptions provided are “good enough” for an animal that’s been blown to smithereens, like tameryraptor and holotype spino

[queen oar]

That's 90% of extinct taxa. Not really something unique to it, i'd say. You kinda will notice every taxa have " gaps " in terms of research. Except... You know? T. rex

[balmy oyster]

Sadly you are mostly right (I’m certain some non dinosaur taxa get trex amounts of love out there by more smaller subfields and whatnot) and even then there’s more to be argued for rex but it’s not happened because there haven’t been any sort of true deeper re-evaluations that isn’t just gsp making stuff up for the fun of it.

[queen oar]

More as a Berthasaur, honestly. I did originally suggest a Deinocheiridae identity for it, but Berthasaur seems to be better in my opinion.

[balmy oyster]

I do wonder how well it would compare to basal deinocheirids. Now that is a paper, forget the “ermmm abelisaur premax 246% larger than trex totally guys” papers it’s time for history!!!!

[coral forge]

praying for more bahariasaurus material with iguidensis description

[queen oar]

I kinda shared the opinion, basically similar to: Kill Tyrannosaurus. But I genuinely think that people need to let go of their grasp on Tyrannosaurus, more so: Giving less attention to it.

Not to say " There are more important taxa" or " Our priorities should be focused somewhere else ", cuz reality is that sorta of mindset kinda created the issue. Cuz Tyrannosaurus is always important, and it always should have priority

And this is justified, not to offend anyone who've used this kinda of reasoning, by stating how well-preserved it is, how much of a expanded range of samples we have, when these reasons are kinda, only " Selfish " ?

This is kinda implying that Tyrannosaurus is only important and given such priority because it has good material, in any other reality, where it was poorly sampled and fragmentary, it would've been the " Spinosaurus-Equivalent " of that world

This also just is kinda rude to anyone who ultimately decided to study other mesozoic taxa, cuz really " Why would you research something that is seen as a literal ' non-priority ' ? "

Of course, this doesn't stop anyone from being dedicated on Abelisaurs, for instance. But I don't think that person would feel very motivated, when their topic will always be " Not as important. "

[steep atlas]

i think tyrannosaurus deserves attention because it is the best theropod

[mental cloak]

More than it already gets?

[steep atlas]

Totally

[loud pine]

So with the whole multi time period ecosystem I was making was gonna ask if the role of Carnotaurus makes sense.
Current idea is a cheetah analog that preys on Macrauchenia, and wild horses

[silk radish]

They were definitely a all-time Animal group

[runic heart]

Are there ANY huge barosaurus specimens left, or is it all just supersaurus?

[stiff osprey]

Unknown, baro and super material looks very similar in isolation

[finite estuary]

😤

[runic heart]

Is it possible they could be the same genus? Or at least just very similar?

[stiff osprey]

I think they have been placed as sister taxa before but common opinion is that super is more basal afaik

[runic heart]

Oh interesting

[little mauve]

Tschopp et al 2015 suggested a close affinity with Australodocus and Dinheirosaurus with possible synonymization with the latter

[left shell]

baurusuchus?

[outer tusk]

yes

[velvet burrow]

I would like to know how abelisaurid legs work instead of having some non-paleontologist moron get funded to say T-Rex had a baboon big brain and could craft tools

[runic heart]

I think it’s another carch.

[balmy oyster]

I just want the edmontosaurus type to get described fully and properly 😭 as well as other complete and well preserved specimens

It’s completely do-able but nobody wants to do anything with edmonto and it’s why we can’t figure out what is and isn’t an annectens

[little mauve]

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.25532 here's a paper reconstructing the pelvic and hindlimb musculature of Skorpiovenator

[velvet burrow]

Sweet

[balmy oyster]

There’s also the Kelsey horridus specimen, which is irritating because it’s been scanned, mounted, and thoroughly researched yet no information on further public research has been stated otherwise. Amazing specimen, and it would fully kill the “erm no anatomical differences between horridus and prorsus aside from skulls!!!” argument but lo and behold, nothing

I’m confident I could be wrong and there is an apparent ongoing description of this specimen, though I have not heard of anything from anywhere

[loud pine]

If paleontologists somehow dug up an Indominus rex skeleton what do you think they'd be classify as?
(Assuming the prognated wrists would be fixed as the only change)

[paper parcel]

Giganotosaurus/carcharodontosaurus

[loud pine]

As in within the clade? I mean it would be a very oddly giant armed Giganotosaurus

[paper parcel]

Or just a really fat carch/megaraptor. On another note, you could solve the invasive python problem in the Florida everglades with a sarcosuchus/anteosaurus

[loud pine]

...wouldn't they start eating the alligators?

[ashen wedge]

Maybe a Megaraptorian?

[ionic linden]

allosaurid maybe

[paper parcel]

I mean they would also eat the pythons but pythons are longer then crocs

[outer tusk]

something akin to a basal carcharodontosaurian

[balmy oyster]

Abelisaur

[runic heart]

The skull is just so abelisaurid

[balmy oyster]

Well no, it’s got too many basal features so likely basal ceratosaur somewhete

[misty scarab]

probably

[outer tusk]

OH YEAH I keep forgetting its not only made up of many abelisaur but Hesti made a abelisaur one (mostly something akin to eoabelisaurus)

[loud pine]

...I'm assuming that is satire

[balmy oyster]

It does look abelisaur though? Obviously not 1:1 cus it’s got a Rex jaw but it doesn’t really look like anything else

[ashen wedge]

I call saddling it and riding it as a horse

[lavish frigate]

Honestly I really like the design for the indominus, looks like an animal in ways the other hybrids just haven’t

[loud pine]

I mean i don't see it

[tough parcel]

Have you tried eyedrops?

[outer tusk]

again its not just 2 but other abelisaurs like spectrovenator,eoabelisuarus and adjscent animals like eoabelisaurus

[lavish frigate]

It’s like if an Abelisaur made eye contact with a tyrannosaur for a few minutes before laying eggs

That is the weirdest crap I’ve ever said

[balmy oyster]

The lower jaw is really similar to carno’s but just not bent

[loud pine]

Suppose i can see it on Eoabel

And now for the extreme end: classification for Anjanath

[outer tusk]

"tyrannosaur"

[loud pine]

I'm voting Raisuchian

[outer tusk]

Youngosuchus is kind of close

[loud pine]

I'd argue its certainly belonging to archosaur since its got a similar hip structure and seems to have a protofeather filament but its also got the collapsible thermal windows and closest i can think of are anoles dewlaps

...nose weirdly seems believable ngl since hooded seals do weirder and it makes sense biologically for internal cooling and probably display

[queen oar]

Probably a Bird Wyvern, I'd say. Convergent to Brute Wyverns, due to the lack of them in that insular ecosystem

[loud pine]

Oh I meant irl taxonomy.
Anjanath's already classed as a brute wyvern.

[ionic crescent]

Basal Ceratosauria due to fingers

Not abelisauria, cause long arms, different skull shape overall

Not Allosauria, cause lack of extra fingers

etc etc

The most likely option is it being a new family but closely related to ceratosauria, or at least within Averostra

If i had to say, obv

[ionic crescent]

Idk, indominus is extremely messed up xd

[thorn grove]

beyond T. rex specifically, I feel an excessive proportion of attention is given to understanding macropredators relative to their importance in a given ecosystem

I understand that they're cool, but that should affect science communication more than science itself, but it often affects both

[river plinth]

Had to be in Lotta pain with arms like that

[loud pine]

I still totally believe that Henry Wu put his dna in that dino

[balmy oyster]

It has spikes coming from between its vertebrae it likely was in pain 24/7

[balmy oyster]

I think he tried with skorpiovenator but afterwards decided that would be a bad idea

[true juniper]

Skorpiovenator looks kinda weird compared to other abelisaurs
It has like a weirdly small head and a Big round body
But ive heard that its not described properly so idk

[balmy oyster]

It’s cus the paper skeletal is bad (surprise) but if you shift the skeletal/material to align with the usual abelisaur bodyplan then it just ends up as a tiny abelisaur

Also iirc it’s immature which may lend to the small size

[outer tusk]

small used realtively

[balmy oyster]

Wait I mistook it for spectrovenator @true juniper lol nvm

[outer tusk]

btw you meant scorpius rex

[undone rapids]

Eh, skorpio's paper skeletal is also bad so it works

[finite estuary]

Kelsey CT post cranial scans exist but it's Embargo

[balmy oyster]

Dunno why there’s little talked about it publicly

[sullen cairn]

how much prorsus postcrania even is there to compare with beyond brevicornis

and ig willard as well but yknow

[paper parcel]

Could ichthyosaurus survive the modern seas or cenozoic seas

[charred hearth]

factoring or not factoring humans

[finite estuary]

Theres LACM, the one with the split frill, trik?

[paper parcel]

Perhaps

[sullen cairn]

oh right trik

[stiff seal]

would hatz be able to survive in the modern world? for this im gonna just say humans arent real XD

[inland orbit]

i think it for sure could survive then. there is plenty of prey in the same size and niches as hatz prey alive today, and the primary threats to large flighted animals today are man-made pollutants and habitat loss

---

On a tangent note, would i be wrong to interpret these koolasuchus teeth as conical in paleoart?

Just making sure it is what I think it is before i make it.

[finite estuary]

I've done brevi dorsal but surprisingly I've seen trik in person only the skull

[keen citrus]

Haven’t been on path of Titans for quite some time, any new updates for Spino? Heard that he has salt glands

[warped peak]

Temnospondyl teeth are, for the most part conical, with a slight recurve towards the throat

They are also lightly bladed, with a carina usually. I can grab refs if you want

[inland orbit]

that would be helpful. working on a koolasuchus model and haven't figured out the dentition yet

[warped peak]

I'm gonna be honest man. Temnospondyl dentition is going to cause you inconceivable amounts of pain. If you choose to commit to this, I will gather the right references for you, but be warned; Priono's teeth are the hardest modeling challenge I have ever faced

bruh I found the paper but download isn't workinh

[inland orbit]

not going for hyper detailed maws. not that kind of art. I just want to get roughly the right amount in roughly the right shape, number, and positions.

Already gave myself a headache with troodon's teeth.

Protoceratops i decided to save topology and not go that detailed on their grinders.

[warped peak]

I sent an image dump in DMs but you're looking at well over 100 teeth, before the denticles lining the roof of the mouth

[inland orbit]

I'm aware that it is going to be troodon all over again but worse

g-damn comb teeth

[warped peak]

Denticles my beloathed. The entire roof of the mouth is teeth basically.

[finite estuary]

Didn't had much problem drawing em.

But this is a cakewalk for me.

Gotta rearitculate the nasal and lacrimal just a bit for this even if this is a somewhat distorted skull

[inland orbit]

little more of a headache placing hundreds of teeth in 3d space and trying to get the sizes and positions accurate. Even if I save half on the mirror

[finite estuary]

Yup, plus the teeth shape is a complex, for 3d model you want it to make it right than just feels tiled and copy and pasted
I think the toughest for 3d models is to get the mouth articulation right?

[inland orbit]

There's a reason the big silly goose has the lowest tri count at under 8k

koola is the last tetrapod on my list at least

protoceratops was the biggest pain.

It's the only non-feathered one, so no liberties with "feather bulk." They have extra toes in the back and have REALLY weird feet in the front, teeth AND beak, and really specific skull shapes while also having very non-standardized skulls thanks to changes with age and sex?

[inland orbit]

mouth too yeah, spent a lot of time trying to make sure they line up when they open and close. The beaks did not make that easy because hard keratin does not deform much.

[keen citrus]

SONorasaurus😭😭

[mental cloak]

Omg the lizard's face

[inland orbit]

you think they noticed the 2nd big boi

[mental cloak]

"Dinosaurs are not reptiles they r archosaurs"

[trail badger]

Yo guys I dont understand it now so in jurassic world the velociraptors were big and in real life They are small and people say that the Raptors from jw are deinonynchus but he is also small

[coral forge]

oversized to be cooler and scarier

[keen citrus]

The velociraptor took a lot of inspiration from deinonychus and Michael Crichton decided to make it as large as utahraptor.

[trail badger]

Huh

[coral forge]

Utahraptor was discovered 3 years after the book was written and the same year the movie released. Its pure coincidence that they look the same size

[keen citrus]

The velociraptor from Jurassic park was mostly based on deinonychus but scaled larger to utahraptor. Michael crichton knew that velociraptors were not as large as utahraptor and gave the jp velociraptor the name “velociraptor” because he thought it would look cooler

[trail badger]

Ohhhhhh understand it now

[coral forge]

the jp raptors are smaller than utahraptor

[outer tusk]

their size and inspiration was based on deinonychus even GSP initially thought Deinonychus was a velociraptor species though ofc that was inpendent from either Jurassic Park canon

[mental cloak]

Btw i saw some bts and scrapped stuff and i saw that the raptors would have lizard tongues in the movie and they also would be animated in stop-motion
And thats interesting
We almost got lizard raptors

Also does anyone knows if sauropods in general would have horizontal or round pupils?

[outer tusk]

now basically most fossil lack a eye ring

[still prairie]

From what I remember anyway most sauropods were also recovered as cathemeral?

[outer tusk]

based on what

[last stump]

Anddd yess ladiess anddd gentleeemeeeennnnnn, WE HAVE FOUND TYRANNOSAURUS REX ALIVE

[orchid lynx]

What if we had an egyptian plover like Animal in the cretaceous?

[mental cloak]

Possible

[sudden wind]

wdym by that

[orchid lynx]

would make lips obsolete or even devolve especially from rex

[mental cloak]

No
Egyptians plovers only do that to crocodiles
Which again,don't have lips becuz they spend most of their time in water

[sudden wind]

I know you're rage baiting but perhaps you may just not be educated about Egyptian plover: the legend that they pick food between crocodile teeth is fake. It was only mentioned by Herodotus and Aristotle some thousand of years ago and yet it has never been observed since by researchers. Either they made it up, the behavior was lost or another species that did that went extinct.

[mental cloak]

I have seen some smaller birds doin the same to crocodiles before
But even then the lip thing doesn't matter to this "argument"

[sudden wind]

Which species? Where? Did you actually see such behaviors? As for now, it's never been reported. So, as I take it right now, you're either lying, or did not correctly see the behaviors you observed, or you've seen AI TikTok videos.

[mental cloak]

No
I've seen those in documentaries
On tv
Hold on lemme show u

[sudden wind]

Probably fake. I know some documentaries did it for the thrill of it but there are a lot of fake stuffs that were done back then.

Such as: https://youtu.be/DcnNeSlOxfk?si=TGzQw69_9ybF4Bio

[mental cloak]

That's weird
Why would they do that anyway

[sudden wind]

Sensationalism. Make nature more wonderful because it is never enough.

[mental cloak]

Bruh,nature is already so awesome
Anyway
The lip thing on trex
U see
Their teeth r very alined and in the right place
Unlike crocodile's terth with r all spread out and interlock
If u see a komodo dragon's teeth they r pretty much the same thing
And they r also covered in gums to protect them even more

Why would a terrestrial predator had their teeth all exposed to the evirioment at the first place?
That would make his teeth dry and break all the time

[halcyon cobalt]

That’s true

[finite estuary]

He is not wrong if you keep thinking about it right now 🤔

If non-avian dinosaurs were in this society, Nobody would refer them as reptiles, nor birds as birds but dinosaurs, avemetatarsalians or archosaurs if we feel generous for crocodillians.

[keen citrus]

They would be classified as reptiles, since non avian dinosaurs are also closely related to avian dinosaurs, you can categorize both birds and dinosaurs in reptiles

And he is still partially wrong if you think like this. Person calls dinosaur not reptiles but calls them birds. Dinosaurs are reptiles and so are birds, only avian dinosaurs are birds

[torn scarab]

https://www.nationalgeographic.it/scoperto-t-rex-dei-mari-predatore-gigante-80-milioni-anni-fa

So National Geographic Italy wrote about the new Tylosaurus Rex and used an image from the game in the article ✨

[mental cloak]

Yeah i think every article about the new species used the model in the paper
Becuz they made a collab ans stuff

[coral forge]

its because the people who wrote the paper advised alderon while making Tylosaurus so it's currently the most accurate model of one

[icy lagoon]

So I was right to say pot’s tylo was accurate when it came out 🥹 I hope they get the same from apex when making the stego remodel

[light osprey]

If there ever were such a bird to do this behaviour there are many crocodylians around the world during this time period, I doubt one single bird and its feeding behaviour would spur the major change of oral integument.

[mental cloak]

This!

[runic heart]

Would an allosaur actually have been able to latch onto a sauropod as is sometimes depicted? Or is that completely out of the realm of possibility?

[undone rapids]

One of the smaller side, maybe. How small idk.

[jagged trellis]

idr anything for arm stress holding on but at bare smaller-normal sized allos could jump

[mental cloak]

Could they jump at all?

[jagged trellis]

the known weight limit for jumping is like 4-4.5 tons and iirc nothing stating stress for hops on theropods so

[mental cloak]

Huh..curious
Maybe allo could jump a lil bit

[queen oar]

@mental cloak https://www.deviantart.com/nogain98/art/Brachiosaurus-and-Allosaurus-1337518666

[dusk glade]

Whats yalls favorite t rex?
Mines the beetle

[stiff osprey]

Big fan of the lizard

I like the dinosaur too though

[finite estuary]

Yeah we're fish too
Also referred what currently right now cuz you know non avian dinosaurs are all ☠️

[charred hearth]

thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lF-orASjc-o

[ashen wedge]

Are we serious? The answer is yes, haven’t y’all seen Jurassic Park?

[rich vessel]

How’d that turn out again lol?

[ashen wedge]

Last I checked the T-Rex still lived

[rich vessel]

true, but the park was left in ruins

[stiff osprey]

T.rex can be kept in any zoo that understands how natural barriers and enrichment works

[ashen wedge]

Then again, Hurricane and Company sabotage and poor employee management

[stiff osprey]

Doesn't matter how mad your T.rex is, if it's in a 30ft deep hole it'll never have a hope of hurting anyone

[rich vessel]

Also true

[ashen wedge]

Wait until it uses the skills it learned from the goats

[rich vessel]

How smart was T. Rex thought to have been again? Last I remember is something like a baboon.

[ashen wedge]

It’ll escape like the Orangutans, cause we all know the Orangutans are just gingers that went to the jungle to avoid human taxes

[stiff osprey]

Baboon intelligence rex was based on a misinterpretation of the braincase that made its brain way too big, in reality most dinosaurs have proportional brain sizes between crocodilians and ostriches

[little mauve]

I'd say crocodilian proportions are the mid-upper range for dinosaurs, many fall below that. Sauropods, ceratopsids, thyreophorans

[compact leaf]

saying x animal is as smart as y is fraught as it is too especially when they don’t even have the same brain anatomy

[rich vessel]

Ah gotcha

[craggy trench]

Cuttles favorite

[charred hearth]

what is considered culture in animals?

[runic rover]

The water one

[charred hearth]

from wikipedia

"Animal culture can be defined as the ability of non-human animals to learn and transmit behaviors through processes of social or cultural learning.[1][2][3][4] Culture is increasingly seen as a process, involving the social transmittance of behavior among peers and between generations. It can involve the transmission of novel behaviors[5] or regional variations that are independent of genetic or ecological factors.[6]"

do anyone have any examples of reptiles or birds having culture?

[undone rapids]

Would like cats in istanbul and some other places being extremely friendly with humans count?

[little mauve]

Mammals are primed to develop culture because most mammalian behavior is taught from parent to offspring. Culture is novel applications of this teaching, so orcas or dolphins using a particular technique to forage thats unique to a given population is an example. Reptiles don't work this way, they're born with most of their behaviors hard wired. Birds are somewhere in between, with cognitively advanced species showing elements of cultural development

[keen citrus]

Are you trying to state that avian dinosaurs themselves are non avian and that birds cannot be classified as a reptile?

[mental cloak]

What if dinosaurs

[paper parcel]

Nah, Suminia

[mental cloak]

I like this lil fella

[paper parcel]

It's basically a non mammalian primate, also imagine if they renamed Tyrannosaurs, to pseudodinocephalians, anteosaurus came before trex and was a dinocephalian

[jolly spade]

What if Triassic dinosaurs?

[mental cloak]

Hmmm yes yes

[paper parcel]

Trex stole his head shape smh

[mental cloak]

What if
Monospondylus Gigas?

[paper parcel]

Salamanders are peak

[grim beacon]

Chat a new study was just published, apparently new dating techniques has revealed that the KT-mass extinction event that killed the dinosaurs occurred 67 million years ago

[balmy oyster]

My source is i made it up

[queen oar]

@balmy oyster got confirmation on the Bronto type being scanned?

@tough parcel are you a Alectrosaurus?

[tough parcel]

My phylogenetic relations are uncertain at this time, more studies required

[queen oar]

He didn't get it... 😔

Poor Falcon...

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/they-got-him-ted-ted-show-gif-4342699035732514153

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-theres-nothing-thank-you-son-chris-griffin-peter-griffin-gif-16308152171798273645

[queen oar]

Nothing ever happens.

[lavish frigate]

My hypothesis is that you’re a mutated strain of Hay bacillus but that’s just a hunch

[prime fjord]

So I heard about the salt glands in Spinosaurus being found, so like- how exactly did they discover that there were salt glands in the skull?