paleontology

[ancient crystal]

Looks more like level 40 labyrinthodontia

[tough parcel]

I haven't played the game in years so I said the first amphibian that came to mind that I knew was in-game

[ancient crystal]

That's the difference between you and I, I'm a complete and utter loser

[charred hearth]

neovenator cries itself to sleep iktr

[full lagoon]

I've seen people go as far as saying it's a really weird, amphibian-like secodontosaurus, but it's probably just made up.

[winter marsh]

labyrhyntodontia maybe idk

[winter marsh]

iguanodon absorbed ll of Neovenator's weight and size

[wind prairie]

"he hates spinosaurid lips" that's too bad 🥀

[wind prairie]

Neovenator: Yeah, I feel pretty sorry for the next guy who looks at me funny-
Baryonyx: Hmmm... what about that guy? points to the fattest iguanodon you've ever fathomed

[opaque kayak]

peak
Imagine if it was ichthyoritan

[plush fossil]

That's one tyrant lizard, a king even

[winter marsh]

silence brother

no other fathom shall escape from the deepest trenches residing inside your oral cavity

[paper parcel]

The og Trex, anteosaurus from the permian, a relative of the dimetrodon

[outer tusk]

Anteosaurus is not a relative of dimetrodon ~~here's Fabio's Anteosaurus in HQ

[paper parcel]

I forgot this group even existed, literally called terrible headed(dinocephalian)

[outer tusk]

they're barely even in the same clade unless you count synaspids

[paper parcel]

synapsids are based

[fluid inlet]

how accurate is my torvo billy bop

[paper parcel]

based group

[plush fossil]

? im a little confused as to why you're replying to my message with this😭

[paper parcel]

I love the permian, I love the paleozoic, and I love synapsids

[plush fossil]

still not sure how that relates to my message but you do you

[fluid inlet]

love the og rex

[lucid gyro]

so while rex possessed special sound softeners on its feet, did other theropods outside of the tyrannosaurid family have any way of masking sound made when walking?

[hardy sentinel]

ikr they got latinas

[charred hearth]

latina's??

[paper parcel]

we have latina they have argentino(saurus)

[halcyon cobalt]

afaik the padding is less to mask sound, and its primary purpose was to distribute and cushion the weight of their feet on the ground

[gleaming talon]

Technically it is

Also we are all forgetting the ultimate life form

Erythrosuchus africanus

[zealous ravine]

That reconstruction isn't quite accurate, but its still weird

[gleaming talon]

Idc its still goofy af

And also it’s more accurate then 99% of spinosaurus reconstructions

[zealous ravine]

Fair. It mostly just makes the skull too tall

[grizzled depot]

@wise saddle

[paper parcel]

Finally, quadruped giganotosaurus

[fluid inlet]

Idc it’s still goofy

[keen citrus]

What do yall know abt the charcarodontosaurids

[charred hearth]

all gigantosaurini's look copy and pasted

[velvet burrow]

No need to change what's already peak

[wind prairie]

isn't that just because we don't have material from most of them and just reconstruct exactly like giganotosaurus's head

[charred hearth]

is this true...

[queen oar]

2 Dollar

@hallow spear What if I drew Larry the Giant Stegosaurus?

the first one is valid. Everything else, your friend is just weird.

[runic rover]

This message over here, sir. He needs a medal.

[gritty hatch]

Most if not all predators on earth evolved to have padded feet to help them ambush prey 👍

[balmy oyster]

Yes

[halcyon cobalt]

even crabs

[queen oar]

I would say it's mostly because Carcharodontosaurinae skulls are pretty consistent in terms of shape and dimensions. You can literally make Giganotosaurus' postorbital fit into Tyrannotitan's jugal ( in theory, since it's only using a Drawing Software, and not really much in practice )

[rancid dove]

@vast breach he spammed in pretty much all the chat rooms

[vast breach]

Thank you for the ping

[tawdry lintel]

Any good actual documentaries featuring Tyrannotitans?

[tulip dove]

Afaik, no dino documentary so far has featured Tyrannotitan

[tawdry lintel]

[glossy oracle]

Guys, do you know if there is any server where growth happens without doing the quests? Similar to the island for example?

[fluid inlet]

Such missed potential

[native kindle]

the paleontology channel wouldn't be able to help you

[runic heart]

Php season 5 maybe 🙏

[outer tusk]

Season 5? I guess we skipped 4 already

[halcyon cobalt]

season 4 is already out bro tfym

[winter marsh]

What universe do you live gng

[runic heart]

4 is Pleistocene again. All but confirmed by Darren Naish.

[outer tusk]

Aware just would be shocked if we get a S5

[runic heart]

Fair point actually

[runic heart]

Though Naish also said in some Q&A forum that he pitched Jurassic seasons and other stuff to the executives and seemed optimistic about it. However, he did say we probably wouldn’t be getting Cenozoic stuff outside the Pleistocene since the executives don’t like that idea for some reason.

Cliche or die I guess idk

[paper parcel]

Permian would be peak

[hallow spear]

who is larry i wanna meet him

[runic heart]

Prehistoric Planet: Apocalypse

[jagged trellis]

ok but a season detailing the world slowly dying with no remorse or power but ending with life rebounding and seeing the post permian explosions of life would be a peak season for php

[queen oar]

I made it up

@hallow spear Hey Stego, what if I drew giant Stegosauruses? ( all of the Stegosaurus species )

[velvet burrow]

No, you get Tyrannosaurus, Tyrannosaurus and uh, more Tyrannosaurus

And things that look like Tyrannosaurus so they can be compared to Tyrannosaurus
Or things that lived with Tyrannosaurus
Or things that look like things that lived with Tyrannosaurus

[ancient crystal]

But ironically there's hardly any good documentaries about tyrannosaurus

[velvet burrow]

If you make a paleo documentary about something like an elasmarian or a noasaurid that can't be somehow traced back to Tyrannosaurus big paleo sends armed hitmen to threaten you

[queen oar]

And then OmegaFreeLancer is going to quote tweet your comment and respond with something " Erm, if you want more representation of other genera, make it yourself! "

[velvet burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-hank-scorpio-why-didn’t-i-think-of-that-gif-16665717301005834823

Btw does the idea of perching Manidens still stand? iirc it recently got an osteology paper

[queen oar]

Oh, for that, you just: " ...avoid the dumb areas "

Can't remember who gave me that advice.

[velvet burrow]

Wait what does that mean?

[queen oar]

For the quote, it's just what it says, literally. I guess?

[hallow spear]

Sure

[runic heart]

This isn’t actually how ventral scales would look on the stomach, is it?

[polar rain]

Xenomorph sauropod

[stiff osprey]

I don't think we have evidence of ventral scales on sauropods. This is how they look like on theropods tho

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/2015774530325606441

Nature is Amazing ☘️ (@AMAZlNGNATURE)

Webcam captures elephant using a gentle backheel to the hind legs to persuade an impala to leave the waterhole

X · Jan 26, 2026, 1:11 PM

[rancid glade]

https://youtu.be/8g5XG5o2CtI?si=Wm6576uQ66pO1LJY

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable could please explain this for me because I understand Pete Larson is a respected paleontologist who's helped find many famous T.rex specimens

But the argument points made in this video for why Tyrannosaurus Rex doesn't have lips I'm unsure on if this is some serious umm argument point that might dispell it OR if this is some video dispelling lips because they were not keen on the idea?

[green helm]

say that again google?

[ionic linden]

...

[charred hearth]

so are spinosaurus and tyrannosaurus twinning in not having lips?

[queen oar]

" -Twice as heavy as the largest Tyrannosaurus... "

The 3-3.5 ton Tyrannosaurus:

[runic heart]

If tyrannosaurus doesn’t have lips, no theropod has lips

[charred hearth]

thats not how that works but okay

[green helm]

my guy please feed him🙏 ITS A BOBBLEHEAD

[thorn grove]

"Twice as heavy as the largest Tyrannosaurs of its time"

[queen oar]

It's an intentional design, you see... Because then it can have feathers.

[green helm]

goliath only 3 tons confirmed?!

[thorn grove]

Tyrannosaurs not Tyrannosaurus

of its time so ostensibly Campanian Tyrannosaurs in North America

[jagged trellis]

not at all
from what i remember the argument is that rexes teeth were closer to tusks which
uh
i think you can gather real fast how not smart that is

[green helm]

damn hes fluffy

[charred hearth]

so the video is just misinformation?

[jagged trellis]

the original argument just flat out is yeah
i do not know if they have changed said argument but like
p safe to say the land animal with teeth not jutting out
had lips lmao

[queen oar]

yeah, but i'm gonna continue on the joke, because it's funny

[paper parcel]

They are way smarter then people credit them for, who knows they might be the next civilization

[green helm]

mhm yes i can imagine trex accidentally having blood all over its lips looking like a makeover

[queen oar]

tbh, it would look radical

[queen oar]

but closer in what sense, do you remember that?

[jagged trellis]

as in standing out and not needing covering to remain healthy
which is just them grasping at straws seeing
its teeth
on a land animal
with literally nothing showing for holding un m o i s t

[queen oar]

so the original analogy with tusks and, depending on who you ask, Sabertooth Canines, is that both tusks and Canines in Machairodontines lack the enamel layer over the teeth, now I don't know if there is anything that discuss why the lack of this layer is relevant or why the layer is not present, but essentially there was word that apparently Theropods also lacked the Enamel Layer or had a thin enamel layer, something that wouldn't age well on the Lip paper, where IF I'm not mistaken, theropod teeth ( Noted, was only done on Daspletosaurus and Daspletosaurus' teeth only ) showed a relatively thick enamel layer.

[little mauve]

Theropods and dinosaurs did have a very thin enamel layer relative to crocodiles or mammals, not sure of the source of the Daspletosaurus claim

[frosty cedar]

Wait, so essentially the whole idea of theropods having lips stems from this daspletosaurus paper?

[rancid glade]

I wasn't sure with that video above I watched if it was some new side of the argument that changed our understanding somehow or if it was just Pete Larson and that other individual in the video wanting to bash on lips because they don't like the idea personally?

[tough parcel]

Lipless camp doesn’t want you to know this but dinosaurs were always depicted as having lips until after Jurassic Park

Curious…

[frosty cedar]

Weren't theropods lipless in the 80s too?

[tough parcel]

Not to my knowledge

[fluid inlet]

Yes they were

[thorn grove]

iirc the rex in jp was supposed to have lips but it was difficult to get them to work on the animatronic at that size

[serene sedge]

As far as most scientists are concerned theropod “lips” are the norm for these animals. Theropods that lacked lips either had a beak or had some extreme adaptations not seen in other theropods. The foramina and bone scars on the skull indicate that they would be there in life, this was to protect the teeth from wear.

[frosty cedar]

Also Spielberg thought it would be scarrier. That's why the head shape is also different.
But no, people still say they were mostly going for accuracy.

[jagged trellis]

ik this is slightly unrelated but it makes the 84 goji animatronic all the more impressive
even if its derpy as sin

[tough parcel]

Which ones?

[balmy oyster]

I didn’t realize this…the ultimate defense

[charred hearth]

whos side are you on

[serene sedge]

None of the dinosaurs in the original JP movie were accurate for the time, they were all effectively stylized movie monsters.

[tough parcel]

Well-stylized*

[balmy oyster]

Why is utah always depicted as being a pidgeon in terms of feathering that doesn’t make any sense (unless the region it was found in was known to be rather frigid)

[thorn grove]

It may have happened occasionally prior to JP when they were reevaluated as closer to crocodilians but I don't think it was ever the norm

[charred hearth]

ask falcon

[frosty cedar]

Also, as far as I know, there is not a single reptile today without lips except crocodilians that let water moisturize them. Or birds that have beaks.

[thorn grove]

also crocodilians have a completely different formina layout than other reptiles including Dinosaurs

[tough parcel]

Because people don’t realize why birds are rotund silhouette (they need a streamlined shape to cut through the air) so they just throw it on terrestrial raptors as another example of overcorrection for JP

[balmy oyster]

True.

[queen oar]

tbh my memory is fuzzy because like the debate is so boring.

[jagged trellis]

crocodilians in general have extremely different mouths to tetrapods regardless
its a really weird thing to use it as a example from em
or tusks
genuinely why tusks dawg

[serene sedge]

True, even reptiles with exceptionally long teeth had lips.

[tough parcel]

What if we just destroyed all dinosaur bones

I think that would stop all discourse

[queen oar]

no, it's not a paper on Daspletosaurus, it's the Lip paper, you know? Where Witton's art is even included

[serene sedge]

It’s not even really a debate anymore, it is a one sided discussion.

[charred hearth]

me when amargasaurus

[undone rapids]

That worked so well for bahariasaurus

[frosty cedar]

A lot more accurate than other depictions at the time, but still:
movies prioritize creativity over real science, and on top of this the theme is that animals were genetically engineered with gap filling.

[queen oar]

nah. It's a boring debate. It's really just repeating the same arguments until one side eventually just tires out.

[tough parcel]

I think the funniest thing is before Jurassic Park, we had people like GSP already attempting a varanid-type of lip (hidden teeth)

How curious…

[frosty cedar]

Oh, ok. Never really knew where the lip idea started.

[queen oar]

I mean, it always has been subjective.

[serene sedge]

Tbh the only theropods I could see with less oral tissue are spinosaurs and even that is a questionable idea.

[jagged trellis]

i gotta ask how seeing they would quite literally be the only outliers in this regard
on the subjective bit for lips

[tough parcel]

It rlly hasn’t

@frosty cedar The Daspleto paper from Carr(?) started/introduced a lot of the talking points used as proof for liplesssness

Witton’s paper sort of did the same for lipped animals but the difference is you need to do less hula hoops for a theropod to be lipped

[queen oar]

Like you have the goat Knight, showing teeth exposed on Tyrannosaurus, and then on Allosaurus it clearly has lips.

[tough parcel]

The problem with this example is that the Tyrannosaurus clearly have their mouths open + seems more of a sketch than the refined painting of the Allosaurus

If we looked at other painted T.rex from Knight, that would be a better comparison

[queen oar]

so pretty subjective, even more so if you want to account that maybe... Just maybe, it's being selective to show one particular dinosaur as more " Scary "

[queen oar]

Your honor, hit this man with a Jerboadiver, and the Morning Tyrannosaurus art done by also Charles R. Knight ( The mouth is closed and the teeth are still exposed )

[frosty cedar]

Oh, interesting.

[tough parcel]

Why is that painting attributed to Michael Kerbow

Wait, it is from Knight by Google lists it as coming from Kerbow’s site tf 💔

[queen oar]

Now, I shall drink a Celebratory Fanta!

[frosty cedar]

Also, rexes here kinda look like they would have proper lips with no teeth sticking out if they close the mouth.

[tough parcel]

Society is confused

Anyways, the point still remains that the exception does not prove a rule because I’d like to know what caused Knight to reconstruct this one painting different from his others

[queen oar]

I mean yeah, I'd agree, but at the same time it's like, I think the point still stands where it's subjective before Jurassic Park became mainstream. Like, majority of these artists aren't around anymore and there's not really many ways we can find why they made some decisions

[frosty cedar]

Probably artistic vision. Even though most of his paintings are goated, just to look at and portraying dinosaurs like they could actually exist looking like this.

[queen oar]

Also, Burian ( The Other Goat ) also depicts his Tyrannosauruses with no lips, or a seemingly lack of extensive oral tissues around the margins of the jaws.

The texture around the margins are pretty evident what the intentions were.

@tough parcel Hey Gualicho, what if we drew Giant Stegosauruses? What do you think of that? Instead of a silly conversation about silly lips? hmmmmm?

[craggy trench]

ah yes cause poking at Gualicho when he was having a normal conversation
that makes sense

[tough parcel]

Actually thank you for the reminder, I need to draw a Stellasaurus

[queen oar]

See? I am a useful tool for the team! LMFAO

[balmy oyster]

Speaking of

New giant morrison stegosaur doesn’t appear to be stegosaurus, so something cool can be done with that

[craggy trench]

watch it become apart of allo anax
he consumes all

[tough parcel]

Morrison needs a look-at in general so I am hesitant to say the large stegosaur is definitively not Stegosaurus unless I’m forgetting diagnostic traits already listed

Such is the problem with a formation that was a large part of the Bone Wars

[queen oar]

I think I'll do Giant Stegosauruses. I know the possibility of it being a Dacentrurinae, but like they aren't THAT present on North America, as much as Europe ( At least for now, to avoid any potential " Foreshadowing is a important tool in writing- " moment )

So yeah, I'm leaning towards Stegosaurinae, potentially Stegosaurus.

[craggy trench]

destroys your fossil and then names another fossil to get more species named than you

[balmy oyster]

I mean there’s alcovo so they definitely were there + the morphology of the bones apparently points to it being dacentrurine, so making it a stegosaurus wouldn’t make sense

[tough parcel]

What if I made it into an early tyrannosaur, what would you do then?

[queen oar]

unless " Stegosaurus " sulcatus 😏

[craggy trench]

its a large species of Nano trust

[queen oar]

actually, Thomas Carr had to correct your statement... You see, it's actually " Tyrannosaurus " morrisonensis

[hardy sentinel]

This is my favorite picture of a school of fish, it reminds me of a Pachyrhinosaurus school

(Guys it's funny because all vertebrates are fish, and a group of fish is called a school)

[thorn grove]

hahahahahahahahahaha

[ancient crystal]

This might be splitting hairs a little, but I don't think a geological institute's arguements against lips has as much weight behind it as the plethora of arguements made by biologists in favor of lips.

[rancid glade]

Alright I was just confused about Pete Larson who's a respected paleontologist seeming to push that side of it that's all

[ancient crystal]

Jack Horner was a respected paleontologist once upon a time as well.

Sometimes people just don't want to change with the times for one reason or another and they're willing to put their credibility on the line to go against the grain.

[tender vapor]

Is hp recovery for tt the most paleo accurate sub species looks wise ?

[ancient crystal]

Big paleo got to him

[rancid glade]

Hmm good point regarding Jack Horner. I was just wanting a second opinion by asking but thank you for giving my your input here I appreciate it

So basically there's not been some fundamental change in our understanding of lips on theropods including T.rex that I somehow missed

[ancient crystal]

No, there hasn't.

In fact, this guy's been against lips for a long while, at least since the idea became mainstream.

[jagged trellis]

he's been against the idea of lips since rexy dropped that goat leg decades ago

[balmy oyster]

Matter of fact, the guy is against tyrannosaurus as a whole lol.

[craggy trench]

man has gone on record saying he doesnt like trex
and you watch and see his rex takes and its like
gee i couldnt tell

[ancient crystal]

Ah yes, rexy, the famously lipped rex design

[tough parcel]

Tyrannosaur tuah

[jagged trellis]

thats
the entire reverse of the joke

[charred hearth]

jack horner?

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-horner-smile-gif-27453489

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-horner-smile-gif-27453489

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[balmy oyster]

Great minds think alike

[craggy trench]

yes

[tawdry lintel]

What is the best documentary featuring Charcharodontosaurids ?

[frosty cedar]

Slightly related to the previous conversation, but I wanted to share some picks from a museum I went to yesterday, and it got me thinking: why mosasaurs had lips allegedly even tho they were fully aquatic?

[craggy trench]

well mosa and friends come from monitors and friends who do have lips

[small glen]

bro i want to go see real life dino bones in museum but there arent any museums with them near my area

[frosty cedar]

I live in Saint Petersburg, and this is literally the only good paleo museum in the city lmao. It's a private museum called Paleohunters.

You can also buy everything in there. Some things only if you are insanely rich, of course. Prognatodon skull costs so much you need to make a bid to agree on the price.

[small glen]

broo

imagine having dino skull in your house

[frosty cedar]

I bought this shark tooth, for example.

[frosty cedar]

Someone actually bought the full skeleton of this small mosa. I asked one of the workers, it will leave the museum sometime later.

[small glen]

now thats peak house decor

[frosty cedar]

Yeah, it's going to some office building.

[frosty cedar]

I thought it was something more complex. Makes sense, since dolphins also have lips. Crocs are very unique in this sense then.

[lavish frigate]

I’m getting lipless dinosaur propaganda in my algorithm, it’s Dinover 😔

[ancient crystal]

Someone should go fight them in the comments section

[small glen]

honetly trex with lips is scarier and looks better imo

[frosty cedar]

It's the new T-rex evolved into chicken brainrot.

[ancient crystal]

I like how the thumbnail looks like a bad lip reading thumbnail, like I'm expecting an upsettingly catchy song about why the Tyrannosaurus was lipless, but no its just a strikingly grumpy old man and his poor intern

[small glen]

btw wasnt it proven that trex had lip something to do with teeth if I remeber guy in vid explaining

[ancient crystal]

It's a "debate"

That is to say, every good paleontologist agrees Tyrannosaurus was lipped. But every paleontologist who'se really a geologist that audited their biology courses in college are mad that their rocks are marginally less cool and say it was lipless.

[small glen]

bro honetly whats cool about rocks they were mostly the same thru history they only changed thru geologic eras and were shaped either by wind, water or humans

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/sheldon-geology-science-geology-isnt-a-real-science-gif-21675319

[charred hearth]

is livy the largest prehestoric whale we have?

[ancient crystal]

No

[charred hearth]

then who is

[bright veldt]

Perucetus at least is still larger.

[ancient crystal]

I'm fairly certain–yea, perucetus even with the downsize is larger

[charred hearth]

i swear there was another one but i forgot its name

[stiff osprey]

Megabalaena and the other physeteroid from last year are both p big

[ancient crystal]

I love paleo names

Mega baleen, what a wonderful name

[wind prairie]

blue whale since they evolved in a prehistoric time

[charred hearth]

anyone willing to do a size comparison>

[ancient crystal]

Also, if you want to go that route, there are multiple extant whales larger than livy by a decent margin

[tawdry lintel]

I thought Perucetus was much smaller than previously thought, it still is massive ?

[charred hearth]

including the goat, the sperm whale

[stiff osprey]

Minimum estimate for Perucetus is 35t

[tawdry lintel]

Phew

[charred hearth]

did the real anomalocaris sing this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzHnQN8u6zs

[ancient crystal]

I love the warning, more YT videos need that

[charred hearth]

are we making it out of the shallow end with this

[orchid lynx]

ehm noo

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-disappointed-disgusting-disgusted-looking-gif-6561690286467128067

[brave nova]

Accuracy always is best

[ancient crystal]

Wow, two wrong takes back to back

[charred hearth]

amargasaurus is the best sauropod

[paper parcel]

Wrong, alamosaurus

[dim rune]

Nuh uh, Dreadnoughtus is

[paper parcel]

@ionic linden Armored titan alamosaurus

[dim rune]

Alamo is pretty cool too

[paper parcel]

I love all american sauropods very based, also why didn't hell creek have any?

[dim rune]

American sauropods are very epic

[paper parcel]

Honestly though, armored sauropods are just cool in general, nothing more terifying then a walking castle with spikes.(ampelosaurus)

[ancient crystal]

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE #path-of-titans

[quick tide]

Brasil alguém

[dim rune]

ha, thats like the rex was only a scavenger guy

[paper parcel]

Ah yes, the theropod so fat and strong it became the biggest, like my dad/jk

[tribal trail]

#português

[snow terrace]

Oohhh that's the design db amp seems to be based on..

[charred hearth]

maiasaurus has been rejected from every jp film and jurassic world

[ancient crystal]

Despite being in the second book (and maybe the first one I don't remember)

[charred hearth]

oh it was in the books? i thought maia's only involment in the franchise was due to the push of john horner

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, second book it plays a pretty important role so far as background dinosaurs go iirc

[balmy oyster]

Looks cool. Shame it didn’t really look like this

[charred hearth]

what do you mean the island got bombed in the first novel

[ancient crystal]

Sorna

[charred hearth]

were they both bombed?

[ancient crystal]

No, there was a second book, its called The Lost World, it is on my shelf and in the book the island is notably not bombed

[fluid inlet]

Please don’t spread rumors

[fossil ingot]

Yeah close enough
Deino been 4.7-5.4t vs Torosus 3.4t and Pete III 3.8t

[charred hearth]

do we have a 4 ton dasp? i swear we did

[fossil ingot]

Old Pete III

When Pete III was thought tp be +10m up to even 11m sometimes...

[charred hearth]

do you think tarbo cries now that tyrannosaurus no longer pays it attention now that zhuecheng becamse so much larger and closer to its size

[ancient crystal]

No, because a grand total of like 10 people know that zhucheng even exists

[fossil ingot]

Tarbo is crying cause of its "Big undescribed Skulls" that Always get lost
Tarbo is like Sucho
The Holotype is the Current Largest

[fossil ingot]

Sadly
They know Shant but don't know Zucheng lived with it

[ancient crystal]

Because shant is the super awesome untouchable carnivore destroyer

[sullen cairn]

save us cm 9401

[paper parcel]

Like this?

[undone rapids]

Shant is cool for having a bunch of mid sauropod sized individuals. Zucheng is just another big tyranno from what we know

[ancient crystal]

I was always under the impression we had a grand total of 1 shant specimen

[fossil ingot]

What was cm 9401 again

[charred hearth]

shant is what edmonto wishes it was

[thorn grove]

we have like 100 although they're disarticulated and weirdly the size distribution is not identical in each of the three quarries (actually not that weird cuz the same could be said of Edmonto and some other Hadrosaurs)

[ancient crystal]

So shant is essentially in the same boat as edmonto?

[sullen cairn]

tyrannosaurus judithrivernextodeinosuchusensis

[fossil ingot]

Ohh THAT guy yeah

[thorn grove]

edmonto has a ton of disarticulated bone bed material and exquisitely preserved articulated specimens and mummies

shant is just disarticulated slop but it's very clearly huge slop

[ancient crystal]

Oh so it is but also not really because its still massive by comparison

[sullen cairn]

also notable for being one specimen alleged to derive from like five separate formations across multiple states

[thorn grove]

85% of Shant femora measure over 135 cm

1 Edmonto femur can say the same (~142 cm max from Hanson Ranch)

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/jontron-what-excuse-me-confused-gif-15932709

[ancient crystal]

Yes, all I'm saying is that both have one or two (relatively) massive specimens compared to the averages

The difference being that shant's average is as large as edmonto's largest

[thorn grove]

also worth noting that the 'outlier' 180.5 cm Shant femur comes from the Longgujian quarry where even the smallest material is like 7% bigger than the average in the Kogou quarry which comprises the majority of specimens in that chart

also there's a humerus from a different part of that quarry that scales to roughly the same size

[sullen cairn]

welcome to actually notably large edmontosaurus annectens, a genus and species with no diagnostic dentary or postcranial characters. we have partial dentary, partial dentary, tail, partial skull that actually looks like saurolophus, and femora associated via bonebed with actually diagnostic crania

[charred hearth]

i always wondered why edmonto is the only hadrosaur in hell creek

[ancient crystal]

Imagine being a T. rex coming across that in musth

Camera pans to a chin bone

[thorn grove]

giant edmontos were actually all just floating skull fragments and tails

[ancient crystal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/zwRO0LKbOtVhC

[thorn grove]

technically if you only use material from the Longgujian the average size is like 15 tons

[ancient crystal]

The actual dentary giga

[thorn grove]

real

[ancient crystal]

Clearly its because edmonto was so oppressive in its environment it occupied all the broad niches of other hadrosaurs throughout its lifespan and outcompeted them all

[charred hearth]

toro, trike, anky and denver all starve for its scraps

[sand thorn]

Alamosaurus must be starving too

[stiff osprey]

Just like the tyrannosaurus, which was the only tyrannosaur in the place due to how big and epic it was

[charred hearth]

alamo did not dare visit hell creek as it feared the edmonto hoard

the true apex and the only one who could take down edmonto was archeraptor.

[ancient crystal]

I need to know, did we actually believe that Tyrannosaurus was the only predator in its environment? Or was it like a tentative explanation for the then-lack of mesopredatory animal remains whilst knowing there were likely other predators in the environment?

[stiff osprey]

It was generally acknowledged that there would be mesopredators (i.e. Dakotaraptor), but they are extremely rare despite the good sampling of Hell Creek-aged rocks, which suggested rex was bullying them off the niche

Which in a way the assumption that rex was the mesopredator was correct... some of our "rex" specimens were the missing Hell creek mesopredators

[charred hearth]

NANOTYRANNUS THE GOAT

[thorn grove]

if you scale that 15.3 meter 18 ton estimate to Saurian's 17 meter Edmonto you get nearly 25 tons which is clearly the average skeletally mature size based on I made it up

[lucid gyro]

i thought dakotaraptor.. wasn’t valid..

[ancient crystal]

Don't you mean...

Gilmorelarsontyrannus

[lavish frigate]

Nanotyrannus is slowly beginning to grow on me and I dislike this

[charred hearth]

dakota isnt valid, but there IS a giant raptor in hell creek, correct?

[ionic linden]

aint it utahraptor?

[lucid gyro]

It’s me.

[ancient crystal]

Dakota is maybe-possibly-kinda-sorta a turtle PLUS a giant raptor

[ionic linden]

okay i get it im wrong 😔

[craggy trench]

It’s stuck in paleo purgatory
Since it’s in a private collection and can’t be studied he can’t officially be declared invalid

He’s get to stay valid for now based on a technicality

[lucid gyro]

i think what’s interesting about hell creek is the rarity of ankylosaurus specimens

[charred hearth]

do we know if the raptor material in dakota is either Unenlagiidae or dromeosauridae?

[stiff osprey]

the bones still exist

[charred hearth]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6626525/ here's the " dakota is a unenlagiidae " rabbithole if anyone wanna read about it

[lucid gyro]

right but we’re not sure who thy belong to right?

[stiff osprey]

one of them is a turtle, some are oviraptorosaur, some are dromaeosaur, and some may be Nano

[craggy trench]

he is the avatar of hell creek
mastering all the elements

[compact leaf]

the dreaded hell creek therizinosaur…

[ancient crystal]

I propose that the complete destruction of a species' known material be called second extinction and gets them declared invalid

No this isn't just away to put down oxalaia and bruhathakyosaurus why do you ask?

[craggy trench]

hey there cuttle

[stiff osprey]

I will join the fight against bruh but you'll have to go through me to kill Oxalaia

[charred hearth]

when its the great bone wars 2026 and i have to kill venator to stop a hell creek spinosaurid from being discovered

[ancient crystal]

A compromise shall be made wherein the destruction of a spinosaur's holotype, specifically by means of fire, be considered validation beyond a shadow of a doubt

This is because spinosaurs are cursed remains and spontaneous immolation is what confirms their placement as spinosaurs

[foggy river]

odd question but
what's the root of the popularity to refer to an animal in a group by the name of the group itself

EX

"Albertosaurus is a Tyrannosauridae"
VS
"Albertosaurus is a Tyrannosaurid" or "Albertosaurus is a member of Tyrannosauridae"

Is the former just as valid? It's kinda driving me nuts but maybe I am the crazy
I've seen this a lot in the last few years

[charred hearth]

im sorry for picking you to die venator , you was the first person i saw typing

[compact leaf]

the latter isn’t invalid it’s actually more proper in everything I’ve read, I don’t really know where the other way came from

[foggy river]

thats very weird but good news for me so it wont drive me nuts anymore lol

edit: no this jsut drives me nuts help

[ancient crystal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cbs-bob-hearts-abishola-bobheartsabishola-a-heros-death-PFAYl4y6yDI4VpZCNq

[lucid gyro]

honestly this is a good question , i’m not too informed but i usually just use id

[foggy river]

Honestly idc much if ppl use the 'wrong' one because i can still understand it, im more just very curiosu where it came from

[compact leaf]

to clarify since I bungled it the first time, saying “x is a tyrannosaurid” is correct

[charred hearth]

is hell creek the most well studied mesozoic formation?

[compact leaf]

probably yeah, morrison supplies a ton of fossil material and the environment is very well studied but a lot of the animals aren’t yet and the stratigraphy is a mess

[craggy trench]

whatttt stego and allo are peak study we know so much :3
not to mention all the sauropods

[balmy oyster]

Not even that

[ancient crystal]

Yes, negmet and morrison are up there as well but not quite hell creek if you ask me

[charred hearth]

which ampelosaurus mod is more accurate?

[compact leaf]

neither are great but db has better normal sauropod anatomy

[charred hearth]

what are the main inaccuracies in db?

[coral oyster]

I think TC’s is closer?

[ancient crystal]

Well for one its subs are made to resemble every individual sauropod family (I forget the correct taxonomic term so I'm using the first one in my head)

[charred hearth]

wouldnt ampleo have standard sauropod anatomy though?

[light osprey]

Hartman’s matrix gets a lot of wacky results for fragmentary wildcard taxa, not helped by the diagnosis of Dakotaraptor including bones of non-Dromaeosaurs

[woeful falcon]

This bugs me from time to time, especially when you account for plural lol. Tyrannosaurids

Or tyrannosauridaes

[foggy river]

Yeah
I don't wanna like, correct ppl on it tho, cause then i'll feel snooty LOL

[woeful falcon]

I also have a soft annoyance for when peeps refer to tribes with the subfamily suffix but that's an easy mistake to make and there is a level of nuance to it

Ie referring to something like Alioramins as Alioramines. I'm no stranger to making that mistake

[tough parcel]

Consider that alioramins looks dumb without the beautiful E

[zealous ravine]

Tbh I don't care whether its an unenlagiine because we already have an unenlagiine being described from HC that, as far as I know, is a pretty solid referral

[charred hearth]

oh we have one being described currently?

[compact leaf]

I don't see any e in your name falcon, curious...

[charred hearth]

there is a e in falcon, Falco berigora

[outer tusk]

define "standard" sauropod anatomy, Ampelosaurus would've looked more like that of it's relatives like Plaudititan,Nemegtosaurus, or Alamosaurus

[charred hearth]

not TC ampleo anatomy

[paper parcel]

cool, tc amp is half hadrosaur.

[outer tusk]

ngl we gonna leave Crisopurple in 2019

[charred hearth]

awe why?

[paper parcel]

idk, but this is the peak form for fighting.

[white matrix]

neither

[ashen wedge]

Isn’t it weird that Paleoloxodon has both the Biggest and smallest Elephant (not sure if that’s the correct term, but y’all get what I mean) to exist?

[fossil ingot]

What a Dark Fella

[gleaming talon]

Standard isnt the right term

[outer tusk]

clearly

[outer tusk]

here's the non-transparent one

[gleaming talon]

A member of macronaria is no less of a sauropod then a member of diplodocoidia

[paper parcel]

duality

[winter marsh]

you can say species cuz technically Paleoloxodon is a genus

[gleaming talon]

Wait the legendary subsubspecies

[ashen wedge]

Alright

[gleaming talon]

Also

Technically the blue whale is the largest fish

Thanks tiktaalik

[charred hearth]

live laugh love tiktaalik

[balmy oyster]

Die cry hate placoderms

[ancient crystal]

The bruhthakyosaurs wiki page is... interesting

[gleaming talon]

Hmmmm

[ancient crystal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/84BjZMVEX3aRG

[jade hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/victorian-victorian-child-dying-withering-away-i-am-dying-gif-14520903717911570406

[thorn grove]

Shant's 180.5 cm femur (left) is weird lookin

This wouldn't change the max size much because I learned of a 105 cm humerus that you can scale almost as big but I kinda question the reliability of this thing as a scaling element

[stiff osprey]

Looks like a botched restoration job

[scenic flame]

yeah? why aren't you called Gualicheo then?

[tough parcel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1090704653739626587/1293743598616969276/attachment.gif

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-soldier-tf2-tf2-demoman-tf2-soldier-gif-12634667699173833821

[charred hearth]

who's mosasaurus is more accurate, BoB's or saurians

[charred hearth]

also say hi to their cousin

[tender vapor]

Anyone know what the most accurate titan sub species is in game looks wise ?

[stiff osprey]

Default is most accurate, carolinii is too skinny and the third has a weird skull

[fluid inlet]

what would be a good sauropod to draw next to my torvosaurus , my beloved torvosaurus.

[paper parcel]

GET OU-

[plush fossil]

Actually I'm the largest fish

[paper parcel]

also, placoderms are extinct but I found this extremely weird looking catfish called the armored catfish, it has a flatmouth to suck up food and has a flat armored head.(basically a placoderm) Convergent evolution

[plush fossil]

? Sorry, what does this have to do with my message😭

[balmy oyster]

wrong reply probably

[balmy oyster]

Yes the Plecostomus, aka petsmart's own not so miniature gluttony

[charred hearth]

are saurolophine found on every continent?

[thorn grove]

not Australia or I think Africa

iirc the only African Hadrosaurs are Lambeosaurines so far (might be wrong tho)

[charred hearth]

isnt there only one african lambeosaurine?

[bright veldt]

I find it likely hadrosaurs reached Australia. We just don't have fossils from the time to properly verify.

[thorn grove]

I agree Australia has a pretty bad Mesozoic fossil record so not finding them there yet isn't really definitive

I'm just saying we haven't found it yet

[small glen]

Bro theet out looks silly

[small glen]

Yea but thats weired to me seeing how they have most diverse ecosystem of today

[thorn grove]

do they?

also fossil record quality doesn't have much correlation with actual biodiversity, it's affected by preservation factors

[charred hearth]

mutta?

[frail robin]

I don't think Mutta is a Hadrosaur

[charred hearth]

isnt it right outside like iggy?

[bright veldt]

It's either rhabdodont-adjacent or an elasmarian rn depending on who you ask. Niether are particularly close to hadrosaurs.

[charred hearth]

do you have any up to date reconstructions of it?

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/8g5XG5o2CtI?si=yK37CdU-qEHPf-85

[gleaming talon]

As an Australian i can confirm
The fossils were stolen by the spiders to use like toothpicks

[autumn pelican]

I’ve seen it and it has some arguments that are a bit strange
The biggest argument against lips and the one where I have to say that they’ve got a point is the part where the lower jaw goes inside the upper one
If they had lips it must have been a kind where the lower jaw had a big lip leaving room for the upper teeth cause I’m not sure but I think we gotta stop portraying Dino’s with a not fully closed jaw with Varanian lips and get it right

I still hope it had lips tho🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Maybe Some day we will find a good Mumie of a tyrannosaurus adolescent and then I can get inner peace again

[fluid inlet]

Ratiod

[runic rover]

Alternative solution, what's the position of teeths in birds with atavism?

[frosty cedar]

How do you live there lol? You get cooked when you go outside, you have incredibly venomous snakes, and now spiders steal your fossils.
No wonder Australia has a not so great fossil record.

[gleaming talon]

It’s simple
Don’t annoy the animals

Also because we have free health care

[queen oar]

" Australia is a Nightmare! " people, when they hear for the first time " Don't annoy the animals " :

[halcyon cobalt]

North American fauna is much more terrifying than anything we have

[queen oar]

So true, you can search what is the responsible behind the highest number of deaths in North America...

T h e C o w

It's terrifying howl is not to be mistaken as a cute sound... It's a declaration that it will murder you when you least expect.

[frosty cedar]

The humble grizzly bear:

[queen oar]

topics like these can only be disappointing, unfortunately.

[granite thicket]

I'd say africa is worse

[halcyon cobalt]

I brought up North America in my comment because I assume most people in this channel ( including the people talking about Australian fauna ) were from North America

[granite thicket]

Oh aussie fauna isnt as bad as people think since australia doesnt have many large animals
They do have terrible critters tho

[lucid gyro]

is it widely thought that most theropods were lipped or are these conversations mostly geared to trex given the fossil material we have

[ashen wedge]

So question, did Troodon get reinstated since I am confused on its status

[ionic crescent]

reptilian lips =/= monitor lips

[polar rain]

This video so stupid 🥹

[polar rain]

It did

[runic heart]

Oohhhhhh this must be the argument for lips on the upper jaw extending further out like the new Wwd T. rex.

[winter marsh]

These people wanna be special by trying to refute something that is very well stablished in the paleo community. Theyre like flatearthers

[autumn pelican]

I just realisier that T Rex couldn’t close its mouth completely so maybe 2 teeth stuck out but the rest was probably covered by soft tissue
I mean there were still the holes on the upper jaw but they were covered with soft tissue so in live these holes wouldn’t have been that high up so his argument makes even less sense now

I can kinda didn’t think and just accepted it because I was distracted about my view about Dino’s being destroyed

And the wwd Rex went for a different design and idk if I remember right but I think the upper libs didn’t extend I just think the lower lips didn’t exist

[runic heart]

Nah the lower lips did exist I think

[tough parcel]

What?

[frosty cedar]

Nah, flatearthers are faaaaar more insufferable.

[serene sedge]

Flat earthers are far more insufferable

[frosty cedar]

I remember one youtuber decided to gather all prominent flatearthers and bought a trip to Antarctica to see how the sun goes there. It moves at a certain trajectory that would only be possible if the planet was rounded. And one guy STILL WAS DEAD SET ON FLAT EARTH.

[autumn pelican]

Ewww what were they thinking then

[ancient crystal]

Pretty much every flat earth excursion to the arctic will result in the visitors conceding that the earth is round, only for them to be ignored by their own community no matter how much authority they may have had

[tawdry lintel]

Is there any good actual models comparing Tyrannotitan to other Carchas ?

[serene sedge]

Like 3d models or skeletals?

[autumn pelican]

Dont find any
The ones I find say that charcharodontosaurus is heavier which I debate heavily

[tawdry lintel]

Both would work

[undone rapids]

Here's random Tyranno with dan's Giga. Note we don't have tyrannotitan's legs so it possible it'd be shorter than here

Its 11.6 meters, so a bit shorter than the 12.4 meter Giga

There is a bit more tail material than highlighted here

Nah, its just the 3rd, 4th and parts of the 5th caudal should be white instead of grey. Maybe he made them grey since they aren't figured actually

[warped peak]

Isn't this the institute that is promoting Goliath as the largest theropod ever for sure

[stiff osprey]

i mean... they aren't lying

lipless rex is far worse though

[paper parcel]

Extremely invasive too and they eat fisheggs

[tawdry lintel]

Wow thanks yall, live all this info, I was kinda surprised because every other time I tried to search about this, Giga and Mapu both appear isanely bigger than Titan

[runic heart]

The argument that the lower jaw fits into the upper jaw is probably why the walking with dinosaurs T. rex looks the way it does, right? Even then, still has lips.

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, there's actually a lot of armored catfish, most of which are natively found in tropical freshwater systems

[woeful falcon]

This is the first time I'm seeing theropods having overbites being used as an argument against lips

If anything I would think it would argue the contrary. Their bottom jaws aren't just shoved up into their upper so like, what's there to cover all that open space

My buddy lips

[queen oar]

Hey Guys, we know giant stegosauruses from Morrison Formation, what about Giant Stegosaurs from other formations? Hmmmmmmm?

[ancient crystal]

It definitely seems like they're looking for evidence to support their conclusion that theropods lacked lips rather than coming to a conclusion based on the available evidence

[runic rover]

i'm sorry. horrible take. no. never cook again in your lifespan. challenging the "general consensus" is absolutely not a flat earther move. Nanotyrannus discovery was the best study of the decade because it DARED challenging "the consensus", "tyrannosaurus was fully feathered" was "the consensus" around 5 years ago. it is healthy to challenge it, it opens up more studies and can either deconfirm a new idea furtherly improving our understanding OR EVEN BETTER, it can surprise us. it can prove us all wrong and we would never know if some "rabid lunatic" didn't try.

[tough parcel]

Well no, it’s significantly different than any of your examples because, as Venator said, it’s coming from a place of “Evidence to fit the solution” rather than “Solution to fit the evidence”

[winter marsh]

Allat text

[woeful falcon]

That said, I wouldn't liken this to flatearthers either lol.

[queen oar]

But sir, Falcon, do we have Lips preserved on any dinosaurs? Wouldn't that also make lips a case of " Evidence to fit the solution? "? hmmm? hmmmm???

[tough parcel]

I’m biting my tongue rn so the mods don’t kill me

But no, the evidence suggests lips are the de facto mouth covering whereas you’d need good reason to lose them

[queen oar]

Well, you didn't say that we have them preserved on Dinosaurs. So therefore, it's the same thing. Sorry buddy, you made the rules, not me!

[ionic crescent]

Imma ping em anyway, you meanie

[woeful falcon]

Get clapped falcon

[ancient crystal]

Uh. No.

We didn't assume dinosaurs didn't have skin before we found skin impressions did we? Lips are a basal trait in amniotes, no extant fully terrestrial animal is lipless. The default assumption should be that theropods had lips even in the absence of evidence.

[undone rapids]

How do we know Beaks are not just, Harder lips

[queen oar]

Ah, but you see, friend. I'm not making those rules, i'm just following what you've said! So clearly we've been doing Paleontology all wrong!!!

[ionic crescent]

What if dino lips were softer beaks

[winter marsh]

Theyre just very modified teeth trust

[serene sedge]

Birds today have lips but they exist in the corners of the mouth, geese, birds of prey, and corvids have them.

[undone rapids]

Teeth are sharp... Beaks are sharp. It all Adds up.

[winter marsh]

Animals with tusks dont count as lipless do they

[ionic crescent]

Anyways regarding the video, wether you like or not, wether you support it or not, the author stated his points in a very respectable and formal way, that while if he's not right, or completely right (only time would tell, since that's how paleo works), doing comments such as "he's as X as flateathers" and such are kinda off and disrespectful

Like, he's not forcing his belief on anyone else, just saying what he thinks is correct for himself

(Saying this cause I saw very XD comments here)

[queen oar]

Also, flat earthers is such a bad comparison to this. Because it basically just shows you don't know how conspiracy schizos manage their ideas. Science basically works, " If a Concept is created, any new information, wether it debunks or just expands on what previous information state, only serves as a correction "

So Science does not by example " Change ", at least not in the way most people think, it only " Corrects " itself

Schizo Conspiracy Theorists, like Flat-Earthers, will never actually correct themselves, and will rather, if per say a new argument was made that debunked their theory, they'll simply just add another made-up argument and basically stock that up for any future occasions that argument is made.

[winter marsh]

Good lord

[serene sedge]

We need to take into account that tyrannosaurs (and most other theropods) had similar foramina and bone scarring that modern day lipped reptiles had.

[queen oar]

As far as I know, buddies. Both sides of the argument here, have been, in all fairness, just correcting themselves gradually.

[ionic crescent]

Honestly I wouldn't use monitors as example, they are way too derived to be a good choice

The most conservative way would be tuatara and iguanians

[queen oar]

Agree

[fossil ingot]

Random's is updating his Titan anyways
So this will change due to Changes on Posture, etc

[serene sedge]

Fair point and still a good reference for it, I used a crocodile monitor because it has similarly long teeth that many tyrannosaurs had.

[little mauve]

Sphenodon has pretty much the same arrangement of foramina

[ionic crescent]

The teeth on tyrannos would still be visible when opening mouth tho (conservative reconstruction)

Unlike the monitor which is just funny lol

[queen oar]

I mean, depends on how old the teeth on the mouth are on the current time of the animal, no? Considering slippage and all that stuff

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Giga is Larger than Titan
Mapu prob is as well but is not that Big of a dif since Mapu is kinda Skinny Giga

[queen oar]

What do you know? Maybe one day we will find a Adult Tyrannosaurus who lost all of it's old ass teeth, and then were replaced by teeny tiny baby teeth

[outer tusk]

This is the true Path Of Titan Paleo chat moment

[ionic crescent]

Nah, all monitors when opening mouth have no visible teeth unless you're making pressure

Meanwhile the most basal Lepidosaurs have visible teeth when opening mouth, regardless of teeth age

[queen oar]

d'awwww so no funny Tyrannosaurs with baby teeth?

[fossil ingot]

Maybe one day we actually Find more Carcha material rather than just having a Partial Skull...

[little mauve]

Tuatara skull, I'd argue that monitors (and theropods) despite being derived are basically preserving the ancestral foramina condition, which is the essence of the pro-lip argument

[outer tusk]

It's so chopped

[queen oar]

Just because of that, you get another Partial Skull!!!

[ionic crescent]

It would be as funny as seeing a baby goose with the teeth-tongue already formed

[fossil ingot]

Doomed to just been a Headswapped Giga

[winter marsh]

I wonder if lipless masiakasaurus was a possibility due to its lifestyle probably consisting of shore hunting (similar to spino which is also believed to be lipless

[queen oar]

Doomed to finding individual variation in Giganotosaurus but mistake it for a new genera or species, hindering any updates to our knowledge about this animal.

[winter marsh]

Why does it have an underbite

[hazy basalt]

The point in the video that got me thinking the most is when he started talking about how much of an overbite T.Rex had, did T.Rex really close its jaws that tightly? From what what(little) I’ve read the ectopterygoid of T.Rex was relatively fragile and acted more like a spring than as a shock absorber.

[queen oar]

They are Old.

[winter marsh]

Elder chopped

[queen oar]

Gerson Boom.

[ancient crystal]

Does anyone have a good diagram of a Tyrannosaurus skull with a dorsal and ventral view?

[runic rover]

this one was always a question i had myself... what are the odds Mapu/meraxes/Titan were just Giga variation? they look SO SIMILAR.

[queen oar]

Venator, you can find scans online

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, but I'm working on my own stuff rn and I think I've seen images posted here before so I thought I'd ask before I went and looked myself

[queen oar]

personally, do you want to hear my schizo conspiracy theory?

[scenic flame]

because most of them have very few or only one spedcimen which is usually very incomplete, so you have to fill in the gaps with relatives

[undone rapids]

They look similar since they were all based on the only one that had good material(Giga)

[balmy oyster]

Very little. Because it would be really weird for “individual variation” to include massively different body and limb proportions from a single species.

[outer tusk]

Meraxes is the least likely to be a "giganotosaurus variant"

Just like the others

[queen oar]

The Ew Skeletal makes another appearance!!! DAMN YOU!!! FOLKES!!!

[winter marsh]

Also, Tuataras are well established as lizards now, aint they? Because I remember Tuataras being their own messy slop of a family

[scenic flame]

or for a single genus/species to exist over 20 million years

[balmy oyster]

That as well

[lucid gyro]

i thought meraxes was more complete than giga, isn’t giga fragmentary

[outer tusk]

AND DIFFERENT ROCK LAYERS don't forget that

Please don't forget layers matter

[runic rover]

i'm not being too serious into this, but i could argue when someone proposed the same on Rex everyone freaked out so i had this kind of question in my head

[undone rapids]

Giga is extremely complete with 1 specimen, just not described much

[balmy oyster]

Giga is unironically the most complete carcharodontosaurid alongside comcavenator

[scenic flame]

would be nice if giga had a proper description though

[queen oar]

So, I personally think that Mapusaurus is just a product of multiple hybrid generations from Meraxes and Taurovenator, because they are pretty much from a similar or the same location, just separated by time, and with Meraxes and Taurovenator you have the formation having this dynamic where it supports two Carcharodontosaurines, but then Mapusaurus appears, and coincidentally, that dynamic also disappears.

[charred hearth]

what was mutta? was it biped, quad? facultative biped?

[scenic flame]

pretty sure most people are talking about monitor lips, not monitor gums

[bright veldt]

I mean I wouldn't count that as a crazy theory and more that it just something that can't really be proven.

[undone rapids]

This would be perfect if Mapu wasn't more closely related to Giga than both of those guys

[runic rover]

o-ok... not entirely sold on this but also fair point toward the end

[queen oar]

I mean, it's crazy, because it's like " Yeah, could be but like... There's nothing to support it or prove it ". So in the end, my idea just sounds like the ramblings of a Old Man

[little mauve]

they're lepidosaurs but not squamates, in a clade called rhynchocephalia

[bright veldt]

New species arising from hybridization happens all the time. Columbian Mammoths arose from a hybridization event between steppe and woolly mammoths.

[winter marsh]

So theyre technically their own thing

[charred hearth]

is facultative biped the correct word where a animal switches between biped and quad?

[queen oar]

True.

[bright veldt]

Generally yes, although its more specifically when they're normally quad but can go on two legs.

[little mauve]

yes, very diverse in the Mesozoic filling lizard niches

[charred hearth]

so do majority of hadrosaurs count as facultative biped?

[outer tusk]

I FORGOT THE COLUMBIAN MAMMOTH IS A HYBRID that's crazy

[scenic flame]

^
facultative biped = sometimes 2 legs, mostly 4

facultative quadruped = sometimes 4 legs, mostly 2

[bright veldt]

That really depends on how hadrosaurs and other ornithopods moved, which we're honestly still figuring out. I'm inclined to believe they're primarily quad just because of how their anatomy just seems built for that kind of thing. They have hooves on their hands.

[winter marsh]

NPC character

[charred hearth]

what would ouranosaurus and mutta be?

[winter marsh]

Both either fully biped or facultative quadruped

[patent mist]

mutta is probabaly 90% biped
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Muttaburrasaurus_mount.jpg

[scenic flame]

facultative quadruped or entirely biped

[outer tusk]

Ourano isn't full biped

[plush fossil]

Dinosaurs probably

[queen oar]

still wonder sometimes if this man will turn into a Ceratopsian someday

[patent mist]

probably not given it's an elasmarian and not a rhabdodont

[queen oar]

but it would be funny.

[charred hearth]

is this a correct ourano skeletal? because to me it looks like facultative biped

[winter marsh]

Paleontologists be like "oh I am gonna find so many cool new dinosaurs" just spend 80% of their life finding mesozoic lizards that fill the niche of a nowadays gecko (not saying theyre not important but its weird how a lot of people except to find important discoveries all the time)

[queen oar]

It's just a common phenomenon. We all suffer from some sort of Protagonist Syndrome.

[charred hearth]

or is this more accurate?

[tough parcel]

Ohh @stiff osprey your time to post (Idk if you finished your mockup and dont want to presume)

[undone rapids]

Heck, there's so many countries where finding dino bones in general is basically impossible since those rocks just aren't there

[queen oar]

Finland : (

[patent mist]

same arm bone length, different thickness (but not by much)

[winter marsh]

Antarctica somehow has a larger roster than a lot of countries

[charred hearth]

im gonna pretend i understand what that means

[ancient crystal]

All the mesozoic fossils in my state would've been more or less destroyed by a glacier thousands of years ago

[scenic flame]

like ireland

[queen oar]

" Hey Fred give me a formation with old rocks "
" Alright, Old rocks- "
" But hold the geology! "
" Hold the Geology...? "
" and hold the fossils! "
" Hold the fossils? "

" Hey Jimmy! Gimme a formation with nothin'! "
" Nothin'...? "

[undone rapids]

There's like 2 dino bones found there iirc, think it was some fragmentary stuff in an article some time ago

[scenic flame]

we have a long bone that's probably megalosaurus and what might be scelidosaurus teeth

[undone rapids]

Or there's a bunch of bones everywhere, but the location is just a wee bit dangerous...

[outer tusk]

The first one , btw the second specimen has some different proportions to the holotype

[winter marsh]

Does Iceland have any fossils

[queen oar]

Is it true that there are fossils in the swamps of North America that we can't physically get them because of the bacteria present in those waters usually?

[lucid gyro]

i’ll get em

[undone rapids]

idk, I know some of the bones of Saurophaganax were in radioactive rocks iirc. Sounds very fun

[tough parcel]

Gamma no, you’ll die

[charred hearth]

the bacteria in a 100 mile radius as soon as you step foot in that water:

[lucid gyro]

its ok ill diff

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/novabomb-don't-do-it-stop-its-over-man-of-steel-gif-3198993858304354112

[lucid gyro]

is it possible as technology advances we'd be capable to get those fossils? or is it a far reach

[balmy oyster]

It’s accurate, the whole bipedal ourano thing came from the arm being measured incorrectly so it would’ve been as quadropedal as every other related ornithopod

[crisp matrix]

Not just Saurophaganax—a lot of bones from the Morrison are radioactive.

[undone rapids]

This is Evidence that the Jurassic ended with a Nuclear War

[winter marsh]

Superman aura farms and doesnt do anything and watches his father die

[lucid gyro]

id love to actually discuss both my qualms and like of this movie but this isnt the place for it.

[winter marsh]

Discuss it as if Superman was Tyrannosaurus and the people were the rest of Hell Creek

[lucid gyro]

well i moreso had comments on zack snyders writing, so maybe i disguise him as evolution.

[winter marsh]

I dont think its a good idea

[lucid gyro]

also did anyone know that the carno fossil at walt disney is actually a carno skull put on a trex body?

[winter marsh]

I just said this because Tyrannosaurus absorbs in the girth and weight of the other animals of Hell Creek

[winter marsh]

Tbh their carno is huge, probably the only theropod that would fit

[foggy siren]

For those who don't know: Long before time
had a name, the First Spinjitzu Master
created Ninjago using the four elementa
weapons of Spinjitzu; The Scythe of Quakes
The Nunchaks of Lightning, The Shurikens
of Ice. and The Sword of Fire. The First
Spinjitzu Master had two sons, one named
Wu, the Master of Creation, and Garmadon
the Master of Destruction. There was an
underlying evil known as the Overlord, who
wished for Niniago to be under his
command and in his image. Him and the
First Spinjitzu Master fought for many days
and many nights, with no clear victor. In the
end. the Overlord was cast to the Dark
sland of Ninjago, never to be seen again for
hundreds of years

[fluid inlet]

Anyone got an idea of how tall the guy is

[velvet burrow]

I assume 1.70

[charred hearth]

due to being the largest, would sauropods typically have the loudest calls?

[balmy oyster]

No, it also depends on the vocal cords & range

Some of the loudest animals also tend to be on the smaller size, or at least have specific anatomical features that allow them to be “loud”

[paper parcel]

What would they actually sound like though?

[full lagoon]

Nobody could say for sure

[balmy oyster]

We can only presume for certain ankylosaurs & small basal ornithischians (& maybe some hadrosaurs by recreating their nasal chambers?) but anything else we have no clue

[full lagoon]

Even still we would never be able to figure out the specific patterns of vocalization, only guess.

[paper parcel]

Ai machine god to create time travel when? 😭

[balmy oyster]

Never because ai doesn’t work like that 🤓

[charred hearth]

archeraptor using its supersonic scream to disable a edmontosaurus in musth to take it down:

[lucid gyro]

does the large brain cavity of a tyrannosaurus yield anything particularly special or is it moreso a case of lots of brainpower for better hunting

[ancient crystal]

Overall brain size isn't all that well correlated to an increase in intelligence if that's what you're implying.

[paper parcel]

True, in the old book war of the worlds that's how they thought it worked and therefore the martians were just massive brains

[lucid gyro]

i just remember seeing talks of large brain cavity and tool use, or chimp like intellect idk if it really means anything

[balmy oyster]

I believe that paper was talking about how rex could be capable of similar intelligence and certain actions, but nothing extreme or human level

[charred hearth]

does Tiktaalik win...?

[ancient crystal]

I think tool use as a metric for intelligence has become increasingly questionable over the years in all honesty.

Plenty of animals use tools, or at least maniplute the surrounding environment and objects within to their benefit.

[paper parcel]

Technically all land creatures use the ground to their benefit by walking, so they are intelligent/jk

[ancient crystal]

Or at the very least, our human/primate centric definitions of intelligence are less useful than we once believed.

[balmy oyster]

That one cow that used a stick to itch its butt a few days back

[undone rapids]

Alot more animals probably would use tools if they had appendages appropriate for that like elephant trunks

[paper parcel]

Can't wait for planet of the cows lmao, not really related but domesticated animals are often dumber then wild ones due to not having to struggle.

[balmy oyster]

Also…not true

I don’t see any wolves pressing buttons to form coherent sentences or gorillas in the wild signaling grief with hand signals

[paper parcel]

Taught

[balmy oyster]

Then they’re neither dumber or smarter

[ancient crystal]

You joke, but in defining intelligence you either encounter an incredibly broad definition that lacks meaning or you limit the definition to a human-biased understanding of intelligence that doesn't achieve much either.

Ants farm, build structures, conduct warfare, pass the mirror test. Does that mean they are intelligent?

No? So how do you define tool use, and these other metrics I've listed? Do we say that tools must be manipulated in some form or another through space and time to achieve a function outside an animal's usual behavior? In that case cows are tool users.

Do we get even more specific and say tools must be fashioned into a form different to the raw material? In that case you've limited yourself to humans and their ancestors.

[paper parcel]

Tamed and domesticated are 2 different things btw, tamed is the process of basically familiarizing and making a wild animal tamer towards people(they are still wild animals) domestication takes generations and changes the animals behavior and shape for people

[balmy oyster]

wow really

[paper parcel]

Ants are alot like people tbh, they form kingdoms, have wars, have times where they overthrow the queen, and even have classes of people. Farms too, they just haven't invented the size advantage or advanced tools since they don't really need to.

[balmy oyster]

I have captured a ant queen and given her a lays chip to signify her process in becoming dumber and fatter.

[paper parcel]

Takes generations though, you would have to actively breed and sort the dumbest and fattest ants and sort the more wild ones out, which is why your more likely to get attacked by the relatively unchanged cats then a dog.(cats never really got changed that much and are more recent), currently your taming antqueen or trying to make it individually less aggressive.

[light oxide]

Comparing the intelligence of ants and mammals is like trying to compare a MMORPG game and a RTS game.

[paper parcel]

Not the intelligence the actions they take and emergent properties(tons of dumb animals doing smart things together) basically they are smart together dumb alone

[ancient crystal]

Yes, but by using tool use as a metric for intelligence that is what you end up doing.

The point is that tool use does not inherently equal intelligence unless you get so granular with your definition that you can't even really use it on non-hominids.

[paper parcel]

Some ants are actually the tools themselves, like some that blow up acidic abdomens when they get too old to work properly or to defend their colonies. Or the ants that function as doors)

[light oxide]

The point is that ants and mammals work in such different ways that comparing which is more intelligent is very complicated.

By insect standards, ants are the Einsteins of them all with what they can accomplish.

I do agree that tool use isn't the sole factor in determining intelligence — cetaceans come to mind.

[paper parcel]

Ants do well in massive colonies and can't do anything alone, humans do poorly in massive cities and can do better with small groups

[craggy trench]

humans do poorly in massive cities
looks at the thousands of cities across the world

[paper parcel]

Rat utopia experiments

[sharp canyon]

I often forget just how big Koolasuchus was

[paper parcel]

Yeah, btw salamanders or crocodile like prionosuchus aren't the only toothed amphibians, bullfrogs have teeth they bite things that approach their tadpoles(that they eat some of)

[sharp canyon]

Indeed, frogs with tusks aren't nearly talked about enough

[craggy trench]

ah yes the study done on rats
nevermind the many thousands of people who choose to live in cites and are happy about it

[wind prairie]

throw him back in the water

[wind prairie]

I wish I wasn't so scared of bugs because they're so cool

[little mauve]

Complexity =/= intelligence, acquisition of novel behaviors is a much stronger indicator. Most types of tool usage represent novel behaviors, they have to be learned or taught and is therefore a strong indicator of intelligence. Tool usage in cows seems to be highly novel, so theyre probably a lot smarter than we previously gave them credit for. Ant colonies are an emergent form of intelligence, complex but not novelty adopting

[lucid gyro]

what about the idea that animals have the potential to do things that we would consider intelligence markers, but they dont necessarily have the need to do said actions?

[fluid inlet]

The world is healing

[charred hearth]

because theres two

[balmy oyster]

If it was 1v1 rex clears

also that artwork isn’t even rex. It’s tarbo.

[fluid inlet]

1v1 mapu still clears, most people don’t know anything about dinosaurs.

[cloud breach]

Rex haters cant even get that right 🥀

[plush fossil]

It's got small arms and two fingers! It MUST be rex

[wind prairie]

I didn't see the 2 for a second and I cartoonishly shot steam out of my ears

[jagged trellis]

2 mapus absolutely dog a lone rex but like
yeah
1-1 it is just rex winning
( also why are we AvA when its basic numbers being turned into demeaning random animals)

[little mauve]

There's something to be said for that but at the end of the day neurological architecture is the best predictor for ranges of behaviors and whether they're stereotyped or novelty acquiring and where on the spectrum an animal lies

[fluid inlet]

Even sub adult mapu (2) negative mugs

[paper parcel]

Who would win in a fight, Anteosaurus?(original) or a trex of the same weight(copy)

[stiff osprey]

Anteosaurus, as the T.rex would freeze to death from being forcibly scaled to a much smaller size

[paper parcel]

age

[stiff osprey]

Anteosaurus probably beats a juvenile T.rex

[balmy oyster]

Nanotyrannus, on the other hand…

[ashen wedge]

Will still be beaten

[winter marsh]

pummeled to the ground and owned

[balmy oyster]

Nanotyrannus found shot and dead in the permian bronx

[ashen wedge]

Wasn’t my fault for that, I am in Permian Florida doing my Florida Man things

[silent scarab]

? So the Dino that’s known to take bites from other Rexes isn’t dying? Alright

[balmy oyster]

What?

[silent scarab]

T. rexes are known to have fought other T. rexes and have survived

[balmy oyster]

Ah

I mean we do have “wyrex” so if a rex can survive that situation it could do anything

[fluid inlet]

Para , stop it.

[thorn grove]

Parasaurolophus took bites from rexes

[fluid inlet]

Another Dino higher in the Cretaceous period rankings.

[paper parcel]

Nano has no chance(fluffy anteosaurus will destroy all)

[white matrix]

@silent scarab thank you for your service 🥹❤️💖🥰

[charred hearth]

what came first in stegosauria, plates or spikse?

[compact leaf]

probably spikes, both are osteoderm derived afaik but spikes are a lot simpler and already present in basal thyreophorans

[balmy oyster]

Spicomelus

[charred hearth]

was it mainly the larger stegosaurids that had plates as their size alone was enough?

[gleaming talon]

Oh god the wyrex

Also rex vs giga doesn’t have a good ending

Giga likely succumbs to the rex who later succumbs to its injurys

[fluid inlet]

Gomez victims

[charred hearth]

is this true?

[warped peak]

Sounds familiar to what I've heard

[balmy oyster]

don't really need them when you have a tail that does nearly 270* with 4 deadly giant spikes on the tip of it

[gleaming talon]

Once its no longer beneficial for survival it is lost

Infact they may have started to get in the way

[keen citrus]

Any interesting facts about the Deinocheirus??

[runic rover]

In the beginning only arms were discovered (hence the "horrible hands" name), it was thought to be a predator, some early depictions of it were of a colossal dromaeosaurid, later it was more accepted and depicted as a colossal ornithomimid, that was until they found an entire skeleton of it, and now it's a beautiful staple of many dinosaur medias. So proud of it, me & my girlfriend first met playing as it~

[queen oar]

What if it's Horrible hands, because it's horrible at anything? Drawng, Typing, Coding, Writing, cleaning the dishes, making food, etc.

[runic rover]

I can't really picture in my head a Deinocheirus using chopsticks 🥢 tbh, you may be up to something here...

[keen citrus]

I think it’s called “horrible hands” because the hands were quite large and most likely used it for slashing predators

[outer tusk]

Dino/deino refers to Terrible or "Horrible"

[halcyon cobalt]

dinokuitaran

[runic rover]

back then they thought Deinocheirus was THE predator, basically a massive megaraptor

[keen citrus]

So what you’re saying is that deinocheirus was mistaken as a megaraptorian back then?

[runic rover]

no, as a dromaeosaurid, I am doing the "megaraptor" thing because they did think it was a large dromaeosaurid with slashing hinder limbs

[gleaming talon]

I still that vasperosaurus is the weird one just look at its feet

[gleaming talon]

And never mix up the giganotosaurus and gigantosaurus

[cosmic minnow]

found on the beach. have asked everywhere and it seems to be concretion containing some fossils

[queen oar]

yeah, but it's only the feet, the rest of the skeleton is still undescribed... I believe?

[gleaming talon]

And still if they are right then its weird

[queen oar]

yah.

tbh, it's the same place where Caiuajara and Berthasaura came from, so it's a formation prone to having weird extinct taxa

[compact leaf]

I’ve heard this claim a lot but never seen anyone actually back it up, not saying it isn’t true I just don’t know where it came from

[plush fossil]

Cute! A part of it looks like a lil footprint to me but it could be something different, I'm not an expert XD

[ionic crescent]

Could be, could not be

Could be river bed shapes, like hummocky

[sudden wind]

I doubt it'd be footprints tbf. Still, this looks to be chalk so the rock itself made up by dead organisms so the whole thing is in some ways fossiliferous.

[cosmic minnow]

it does look like a footprint i guess we will never know lol unless i took it to a real professional

[plush fossil]

Still a very cool find tho

[ancient crystal]

Looks to me almost like a fish tail

[slow shell]

I can see two Rex’s fighting this way

[winter marsh]

Its horrible because he cant dap up people or else they get vaporized

[hallow spear]

They didnt actually

I would class derived stegosaurs as Neostegosaurians, which includes Kentrosaurus, Angustungai and Yingshanosaurus

[hallow spear]

Im also not entirely sure what yo umean otherwise id answer

[hallow spear]

with the knowledge we have on basal stegosaurs the answer is both

[green helm]

is purussarus eating dead megalodon corpses a myth

[ancient crystal]

I don't think there's a reason to doubt this, unless there isn't any temporal overlap (I can't be bothered to check the timespan of puru)

[bitter quest]

No they lived during the same time when otodus meg roamed in the oceans

So it's actually possible

Heck probably possible a purrusaurus ate a baby otodus megalodon

[tough parcel]

I thought this was labeled as a primitive alligator species

I remember seeing this art AGES ago

Oh nope, it is Purussaurus

I wonder which one I'm thinking of then

[green helm]

you sure you arent mistaking astogrosuchus arts?

[tough parcel]

Who?

[marble rain]

are we still on for our date tn?

[drowsy spade]

what are we taking this with

[tough parcel]

It's a hypothetical

It's cool but it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things 🥀 especially when it might not even be correct

All anyone should take from this is that dinosaurs were living animals with varying sizes

[charred hearth]

i was gonna say " the large stegosaurids like stego and wueh didnt have them " but then i remembered dace was the 2nd biggest

i had a brain fart and was like " oh, big stegosaurids didnt have spikes and had plates instead as their size alone was protection enough "

[drowsy spade]

pretty much i was checking it out its enormous

[balmy oyster]

Wrong should be 170 yons

[gleaming umbra]

are we still on for OUR date tonight

[marble rain]

yeeeeeees

[balmy oyster]

Dace is just kind of both at the same time

[paper parcel]

Dumb question but how realistic are fake sauropods?

[charred hearth]

is a extinction vortex a spiral on where once one animal is taken out of the ecosystem it collaspes?

[tough parcel]

In this case, it's moreso the island population of dingoes would explode due to genetic diversity dropping

[charred hearth]

why arent the island population of dingoes given the rights of a protected species but are being treated more like a fox or feral cat?

[balmy oyster]

Ah yes, the “wild animal attacked one of us so let’s make it go into a inbreeding spiral extinction!!” solution.

[paper parcel]

Clearly the true invasive species is humanity and they deserve to be extinct.

[little mauve]

the former isn't a sauropod it's a sauropod mimic ornithopod from the speculative dinosaur project, haven't seen it in years

[tough parcel]

Because dingoes are a very difficult area for the law to recognize as smth to protect

[ancient crystal]

This is actually something that Australia really struggles with, they also still do shark culls to protect beaches

[paper parcel]

Kinda what I meant by fake sauropod lmao Things that look like sauropods but aren't

[charred hearth]

are dingos still classified as invasive species?

[hallow spear]

Dace has no evidence of them either as it only preserves plates & one thagomizer

[balmy oyster]

What a lame answer

“Let’s all die first!!!!” ❌
“Let’s all cooperate and stand to protect what we still have, and strive to conserve and fight destructive laws and actions.” ✅

[charred hearth]

does mira have them?

[hallow spear]

Yes Mira has both

[paper parcel]

Nah im on my villain arc./jk

[little mauve]

oh gotcha, was just a blast from the past for me, a lot of smart people worked on spec. For the time it was a really well researched project, I don't think it's an unreasonable creature design at all

[charred hearth]

can i make the claim that large stegosaurids did not have the need for spikes due to their bigger size?

[hallow spear]

https://klipy.com/gifs/cat-smerk

[ancient crystal]

Pessimism is lame, actually

[green helm]

astogrosuchus

[paper parcel]

Not really a sauropod mimic but they share some similar traits like the long neck and pillar like legs

[tough parcel]

I've never seen their art so I doubt it

[charred hearth]

is there any way for a invasive species to turn into a native species? like, dingoes were invasive, but filled in the gaps that were missing in the ecosystem and settled in

[gleaming umbra]

brown anole

[ancient crystal]

Yes, they're called naturalized species iirc

[paper parcel]

Just gotta wait a long time I think, dingos basically filled the tasmanian tiger niche.

[fluid inlet]

Quinn u ask more questions than the fbi

[charred hearth]

whos quinn

[little mauve]

yeah good point- the idea IIRC was that it was converging on an extreme high browsing lifestyle, similar to sauropods or indricotheres, but they correctly predicted that the limitations of the ornithopod bodyplan relative to sauropods would make them more similar to the latter i.e. no air sacs to allow for truly massive extreme elongation

[charred hearth]

didnt they coexist with tasmanian tigers though?

[paper parcel]

Well umm, the latter kinda all died and dingos also have the ability to open their jaws extremely wide like tasmanian tigers.

[charred hearth]

yes, but even before they went extinct, didnt they co-exist?

[compact leaf]

dingoes made it to the australian mainland via humans while thylacine were still there yes

[paper parcel]

boats are wonderful thing arent they? Definitely one of the most common ways invasives seem to be introduced

[ancient crystal]

Boats without hitchhiking pests are a wonderful thing

Seriously, how do you let rats fester on a ship that's going to be out at sea for months on end?

[paper parcel]

British empire trying not to introduce feral hogs to america challenge(impossible) for sport

[charred hearth]

wait, the feral hogs in america are invasive???

[paper parcel]

THE BIGGEST IN FACT. and they are everywhere and eat everything, and everything in the soil

[charred hearth]

well hippos are bigger...

[ancient crystal]

You don't see any wild boar in the Americas, do you?

[ancient crystal]

And they're invasive in south america

[charred hearth]

actually, tyto ecology in the american desert ecosystem taught me about Collared Peccary

[paper parcel]

hippos are straight up prehistoric, like its a massive living land whale with a trex bite, and its incredibly hard to actually injure because of its thick hide.

[lucid gyro]

it’s so bad that there’s literal days where they go on helicopters and just shoot them in fields

[compact leaf]

peccary are pigs but not boar, wild boar are a whole different much larger thing

[jagged trellis]

peccary are little goobers rooting every now and then, barely missing the mega fauna line
wild boars will eat your first born and crops for the purpose of the pork empire

[charred hearth]

what are the main differences between boars and pigs?

[compact leaf]

well boar are a kind of pig they’re just a particular kind of pig, a very large and angry one

[balmy oyster]

Pigs also go through the human equivalent of escaping society and turning into bigfoot except its domesticated pig transforming into a wild hog in under a year

[charred hearth]

reject society, return to hog

[queen oar]

Me when Humans don't learn.

[balmy oyster]

Me when they do and generalizing certain individuals or smaller groups to the majority of the species gets you nowhere but self destruction

[queen oar]

Nope, they don't. I'm sorry, but if you don't generalize this kinda of thing, then yeah... You are just enabling that issue

Quite frankly, I sorta of am really tired of this idea that " Oh, you can criticize an issue, but don't generalize everyone- "

When, if you only do as wished, people will simply ignore that issue and let it slide until that persists for much longer than necessary. Do you wanna know how people will care about an issue? Complain about it so much, so loudly that they can't simply ignore it.

[balmy oyster]

Okay lol let me criticize native african tribes for being a “part of the problem” alongside the overconsumption and capitalistic nature of megacorporation-ran superpower nations 🤪

[queen oar]

I'm sorry, but if you want people to pay attention to bad behaviour and issues in our world. You have to be annoying about it

And also, so what? What's even your point there?

[plush fossil]

40-50 feral hogs

[paper parcel]

Alpha hog vs beta pig

[plush fossil]

Feral hogs look terrifying, I see videos of them being super aggressive to people
If that were me I'd cry

[balmy oyster]

I saw a video of hogs eating a puma alive

Next and upcoming true hell pig

[craggy trench]

Entelodontidae round 2 be like

[plush fossil]

For real??

[balmy oyster]

Yuh, it was a while ago though

[charred hearth]

i'll never understand this perspective im sorry.

i mean, not what your saying but the " to solve the problems human caused we all have to go extinct " perspective.

[craggy trench]

i think its best if we dont continue on that topic since it will just lead to yelling and doesnt have much to do with paleo

[charred hearth]

is this the largest EXTINCT baleen whale?

[queen oar]

How not? Paleo literally has to do with the study of extinct animals, and we learn from extinctions to prevent them from happening again in other organisms today?

[plush fossil]

Terrifying

[balmy oyster]

I believe so, anything larger is either a stem whale/basilosaurid or a toothed whale

[plush fossil]

Personally I am extinct so

[queen oar]

Also, apologies as this may not be allowed to continue, but that wasn't the point.

[charred hearth]

what was the point?

[queen oar]

That simply " Don't generalize everyone " behaviour often comes from a place of inaction that does or doesn't agree that there is an issue, but rather than collectively taking accountability for that issue persisting, prefers to not do any effort about it, and then utilizing a strawman like " Well, some people will always never learn ", as if that shouldn't be concerning at all.

[balmy oyster]

No one here said “some people will always never learn” so that point is null

[charred hearth]

wait thats lowkey deep, i should use this for my poetry class

[balmy oyster]

Anyone and everyone is capable of accountability and improving, sometimes it is just up to the person themselves whether they wish to or not

[queen oar]

Truly, this only applies if someone literally said that word by word, and it's not like that something with a similar meaning can be said in different ways. I do not feel like I have to explain.

[ancient crystal]

Not even feral hogs, wounded soldiers during the US civil war were eaten alive by domestic pigs that were let loose by farmers before a battle took place

[charred hearth]

i like how theres currently a battle of ideologies is taking place while we also discuss hogs / pigs eating people

[balmy oyster]

The feral hog takes all.

[lucid gyro]

woah i didnt know this

[ancient crystal]

Pig huting spears were barbed/winged to prevent the boars from running up the spear shaft and gutting the hunter

[polar rain]

What dude who deleted that I didn't do anything wrong it was on topic😭

[craggy trench]

who wins the feral hog takes all or the allosaurus takes what he wants

[balmy oyster]

The wonders of the internet

[lucid gyro]

im actually very afraid of feral hogs 😭 everything abou them is just insane. i dont think people even get how big they get

[ancient crystal]

If it was a gif, maybe automod deleted it for a word in the gif's name idk

[queen oar]

Alright, if you guys had to modify any of your genes, what traits would you add to yourself? Paleontology related, because someone might say " Well, I'll add this stuff from this dinosaur " kinda of quote.

[polar rain]

Dude it was a creepy edited image of ishowspeed 😭

[lucid gyro]

id add the genes that koreans have where they dont have BO

[charred hearth]

oh.

[queen oar]

Okay, Ishowspeed isn't allowed, everybody. Move on!

[lucid gyro]

can someone pls send me the speed picture its a legendary meme pull

[balmy oyster]

Vocal cords of the white bellbird.

Burgler broke into your house? Need to catch everyone’s attention in a loud rowdy area? Feeling a little, silly? Be able to scream so loud you implode everyone’s eardrums in a several dozen meter wide radius!

[tight kettle]

Please keep this channel on-topic with paleontology. Meme-related pictures that are Path of Titans-related can be posted to #pot-memes.

[lucid gyro]

dude i looked up pictures, what is that thing on its beak?

[balmy oyster]

Wattle
It is fancy for bird

[queen oar]

Personally, I kinda wished I had either type of Theropod legs, Classical Theropods or Avian Theropods, and all of the transitional forms inbetween

Like, dude, imagine how awesome would it be to run with those

[polar rain]

You know you can just walk like that right

[queen oar]

Yeah, but I'm tired of these plantigrade legs. Tired of this plantigrade anatomy.

[polar rain]

I walk like a digitigrade all the time for fun twin for you it might just take some practice dont worry twin 🥹

[queen oar]

No, I shall replace my humanity.

" From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh... That disgusted me " moment

[polar rain]

Make a scientifically accurate T. Rex cosplay and implode inside of it until the suit becomes your skin twin it's just that simplee

[queen oar]

I know that reference.

[polar rain]

Look at my hand-drawn pfp, Im a furry twin I know what I'm talking about

[queen oar]

Do you?

" Does he know? "

[charred hearth]

do synapsids count as furries?

[polar rain]

Furries are knowledgable about suits even if they're not fursuiters

[polar rain]

Since they're not bipedal or, from what we know, not capable of speech, no, but if they could talk they could be considered as feral furries

[queen oar]

Those are not the kinda of suits you were talking about. Does your individual know about Tokusatsu or nah?

[charred hearth]

i mean, if you made a anthro synapsid, would it count as a furry or scalie

[queen oar]

depends on integument. I think?

[polar rain]

I know what it is, I didn't know it was called that

[polar rain]

They'd be furries, a dolphin or a naked-mole-rat fursona specirs would be considered a furry

[queen oar]

Btw this is paleontology related, because you see, the conversation has to do with Phylogenetics of Anthropomorphs and Diagnostic Features

[polar rain]

Real

[polar rain]

Im pretty sure dimetrodon was confirmed to have scales on their bodies and be naked on their head or vice-versa, so that would be a scalie

[polar rain]

There are some cool quadrupedal/realistic fursuits tho

[ionic crescent]

scaled the a whole thing

[polar rain]

Yeah tbf they're usually covered in fluff anyway

[paper parcel]

Permian solos Mesozoic in terms of being metal, endless desert with not mammals around

[drowsy spade]

200 tons+

[polar rain]

Yeah but it didn't have incisivosaurus so who cares

Actually nah tbf the permian had even goofier animals

[paper parcel]

G R O K

[winter marsh]

20 feral boars vs 1 Torvosaurus who wins (theyre both on drugs whatever so no being scared of stuff)

[fluid inlet]

Torvo always wins don’t ask silly questions

[winter marsh]

its 20 feral boars tho

[charred hearth]

i know who can beat 20 feral boars

[fluid inlet]

And

[winter marsh]

and theyll just gore the torvo to death

[fluid inlet]

They won’t do a damn thing pony boy.

[winter marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-omni-man-are-you-sure-are-you-sure-invincible-gif-3935116808772397515

[fluid inlet]

Yeah my bank account vs yours

[winter marsh]

I dont have aka I win

[full lagoon]

Honestly the torvo might just be too tall to do any significant damage

[tender cedar]

hey guys, im currently working on a artpiece involving megaraptor. how much articulation did it have in its arm joints? specifically the shoulder, could it rotate its arm away from its body? wich twists are possible and wich arent?

[little mauve]

range of motion has been studied in megaraptorids, specificially Australovenator, it might be a good place to start https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0137709 but in general theropod arms are designed to move mostly at the elbow to create a pincer-like grasping manus rather than at the shoulder. A lot of people starting out drawing theropods or doing a more cartoony style get the arms wrong and too humanlike

[tender cedar]

thank you so much!

[paper parcel]

Yeah no they are all going to die

[charred hearth]

chop

[ashen jacinth]

Guys, Paleontologist is such a bad career, it barely pays only if your good

[ancient crystal]

That's almost all of science. Scientists do not do what they do for the money.

[ashen jacinth]

Btw czn i Dm you I have questions about this game, if you don’t mind?

[ancient crystal]

Sure?

[charred hearth]

venator gets scammed

[polar rain]

That friend I talked about that hates semi-oval sails on Spinosaurus says that spinosaurus could kill an ankylosaurus btw 🫩

[main panther]

What ☠️

[polar rain]

Ok im sick of arguing with him without help how fast was an ankylosaurus and what was its turning speed

[ancient crystal]

Please go back and double check they said ankylosaurus and not ankylosaurs

[polar rain]

Ankylosaurus, the animal, this has been a really long argument in the group

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-walter-white-falling-walter-white-sad-hank-death-breaking-bad-gif-11929995292147864802

[umbral socket]

What are some small sauropods? I'm looking for some that are smaller than Apato (if there are any)

[polar rain]

He says it's so slow you can just walk around it and I cant find anything about it

Like is there anything that contradicts that

[native kindle]

there's a grocery list of sauropods smaller than apatosaurus, could you slim that down to groupings? diplodocid, brachiossurid, earlier sauropods, titanosaurs, rebbachisaurs, etc.

[polar rain]

Nigersaurus

[main panther]

Really.

[ancient crystal]

Obligatory gentle reminder that Niger is a country in Africa

[polar rain]

There are raptor-sized sauropods too

[main panther]

Ik 👌

[balmy oyster]

No that’s way too small

[balmy oyster]

There are a ton that are smaller than apato in specific

One that lived with it but is significantly smaller is ardetosaurus, even smaller than most diplo’s

[umbral socket]

I'm mostly using Amarga as a size comparison for what small I'm looking for (sadly don't know many others) So I guess any that are apart of their family? Which should be the Dicraeosauridae family if I got that correct

[little mauve]

no, ankylosaurs were slow your friend is right about that. The forelimbs are designed for carrying weight and a lot of the hindlimb musculature went to swinging the tail. The tail is also going to affect the rotational inertia of the animal and make it much harder to spin its entire body in one motion. Speed is not part of how ankylosaurs defended themselves, which is clear from their body plan, so the point is kind of moot when matching it up against a large theropod

[fluid inlet]

Get paid less than McDonald’s

[ashen jacinth]

I know I wanted to be one younger, but learned the harsh reality.

[polar rain]

Spinosaurus isn't gonna kill an ankylosaurus tho right

[compact leaf]

there’s a ton of small titanosaurs too (saltasaurus, inawentu, bonitasaura, antarctosaurus, overosaurus, magyarosaurus)

[polar rain]

Cus every single argument we have against him he always has another dude 🫩

[little mauve]

🤷 who knows. Maybe spinosaurus was crazy aggressive and ankylosaurus was really passive and skittish, temperament can count for a lot in a fight and we don't know anything about that for dinosaurs. I'm not really a fan of ava. You can say pretty much for sure that Spinosaurus wasn't adapted for taking down large armored dinosaur prey, wouldn't have encountered it in the past and therefore would not know how to tackle it, that might be enough to resolve the argument

[polar rain]

Yeah im not a fan of powerscaling either i just want him to shut up

[lucid gyro]

dont we have lke a lack of ankylo skeletons? how complete are they

[fluid inlet]

I mean https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/R7MlaEQxvv7BPyoQGkx7SXbzA2s=/246x0:5131x3664/1200x900/media/img/mt/2017/08/Oblique_2/original.jpg

[lucid gyro]

ah ok. i just remember reading how we dont have alot of skeletons for them. but i guess the completion cvoers for it

[winter marsh]

why so rotund

[tough parcel]

Why not?

[lucid gyro]

wait is this an ankylosaurus or the boraepelta dino? i know i butchered the latter name but its how i remember the name

[stiff osprey]

it's borealopelta

[winter marsh]

too squishable

[outer tusk]

truly the ankylosaurus of all time

[tough parcel]

Oh my God someone repaired it?

Or well, updated it

[fluid inlet]

Ankylosaurid

[lucid gyro]

ya i was referring more to ankylosaurus itself, but i know borea is prob where we infer lot of info on the anky

[compact leaf]

nodosaurid, different family within ankylosauria

[fluid inlet]

You’re right

[ashen wedge]

I don’t think this is Anklyosaurus….

[paper parcel]

1 word, Consumerism

[paper parcel]

The original.

[vocal rover]

Cool AI design! What is your prompt!

[opaque kayak]

Bro looks like it's been designed by AI but it's wild how it actually looks like that (credit to og artist )

for some reason that image doesn't have a watermark

[ancient crystal]

Excuse me?

[paper parcel]

Most people think science just happens for free and are too busy buying, consuming, and working. Most people have grown addicted to the idea that if something isn't instantly useful it's not worth anything.

[ancient crystal]

I think most people view science as a waste of money. Either through sheer ignorance, or a certain hatred for academia and education.

I know I've encountered a couple people online that believe that grants are regular pay checks and that we're all secret millionaires.

[paper parcel]

Basically it's just idiocracy irl. Where everyone thinks it's just a easy job and only weak people do it

[lucid gyro]

my experience in research as an intern definitely brought me to the idea that scientific research is way more nuanced than i thought.

[paper parcel]

Not exactly related to paleontology but it still effects it, the rise of company paid "science" has also made people distrusting of it in general. And not just food science or medical science

[lucid gyro]

i think social issues also effect it, people are less interested in certain scientific topics because of the importance of other issues

[ancient crystal]

The opening pages of Jurassic Park talk about the shift in science from pure academic institutions to corporations, and how real scientists are those that remain in academia.

(And to be honest, I kinda agree)

[lucid gyro]

like i remember space race protests coming out of civil rights activism

[paper parcel]

It's basically just projected views about the elites onto science as a whole, and not just the people doing it, plus given how most colleges are basically only for the most rich wealthy people(not the average) it doesn't help

[ancient crystal]

Totally, but I think its also just apathy, plain and simple.

I think people gain a mindset pretty early on that nothing really matters.

Why should climate change, for instance, matter when nothing matters in the first place?

[lucid gyro]

i dont think its apathy as much as its people just considering things more important than other tbh, i completely get why people focus on certain issues esp socially over scientific endeavours. especially as someone who is passionate about both

[ancient crystal]

I'm not going to pretend the average joe working a nine to five being robbed by corporate America should care about the nuiances of shark tags, and the trophic ecology of sand tiger sharks.

But there's a difference between not having science constantly, or really ever, at the forefront of your mind in favor of more pressing matters, and deriding science in any form.

[lucid gyro]

100% agree

[ancient crystal]

And I'm not without my own biases.

When Mr. Average Joe says my field is a waste of his hard earned tax payer dollars, votes for politicians that pull funding and MY chance at a career, but then turns around and cheers for the extra half trillion added to the US annual defense budget. It gets hard for me to think kindly of Mr. Average Joe.

[lucid gyro]

i completely get that, and i think thats specifcally why science education is so important. i learned more abou that in my internship too, like the importance of communicating why you do effectively so people can care or at least be made aware of it

[thorn grove]

While I wish more people cared about knowledge for the sake of knowledge, it remains important to understand that:

1. We'll never know what knowledge is or isn't useful until we have that knowledge. Something can seem useless for decades or even centuries only to later turn out to be extremely important to a new field.
2. What we know and think about the world around us shapes how we think it "should" be. Our conception of what the past was like, for instance, be it viewed as a linear progression of 'better' forms or a more winding and complicated road, can heavily influence what kinds of ideologies people find convincing.

[fluid inlet]

Never realized all 3 toes are different 😭

[serene sedge]

I mean yeah

[thorn grove]

which differences are you highlighting

also whose foot is this

[fluid inlet]

Allosaurus but I notice the basically same pattern in Tyrannosaurus rex too

[lavish frigate]

It’s mine, that picture was private idk how it got out 😔

[fluid inlet]

Just wanted to practice some dinosaur feet reconstruction with no reference

[thorn grove]

I don't remember the exact mechanics of it right now but since each toe is at a different angle they are under slightly different stresses during locomotion

also they perform different functions in terms of propelling the animal which further changes their stresses

[queen oar]

broda ew

[fluid inlet]

I just find it interesting all 3 toes are different but from what I see it remains like that for all the other theropods I’m seeing as well , Tyrannosaurus rex , acrocanthosaurus , allosaurus.

Wasn’t a critique or anything, was just something I barely noticed.

[thorn grove]

also true of the beautiful baby boys

[queen oar]

Okay I'm not finding the image, give me a sec, let me check my bookmarks

[fluid inlet]

No reference just spray and pray

[thorn grove]

Not immediately related to I think what the main point you're getting at here but if you compare the metatarsals on Allosaurus and Daspletosaurus, for example, you can see that the Tyrannosaur has an increasingly compressed central metatarsal as you move towards the ankle while the Allosaur has a more uniform thickness

[queen oar]

https://x.com/999jung/status/2014291948111376593?s=20

이종족프린세스☁️ (@999jung)

그럴듯한 다리 그리기 (다리가 아래로 뻗는 동물 전반)

X · Jan 22, 2026, 10:59 AM

And I finally found this art again
https://x.com/999jung/status/2014016845922095236?s=20

이종족프린세스☁️ (@999jung)

파라오 스피노사우루스

X · Jan 21, 2026, 4:46 PM

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I’m seeing that now in the tweet Agnes sent , it’s interesting getting anatomy right.

[queen oar]

Depends on your method. If for example, to get the anatomy right you get too exhausted, then it certainly doesn't become THAT interesting.

[thorn grove]

how's my foot

[queen oar]

There was an effort.

[thorn grove]

yea I just did this cuz we were talking

also no the middle digit is longer than at least the one on the right kinda

[queen oar]

The only thing I did that had any perspective from a different angle, I guess

[fluid inlet]

Carcharodontosaurid?

[queen oar]

Fiction Retrosaur-like Tyrannosaur

[fluid inlet]

The arms were extra long so didn’t want to say Rex but that makes sense lol

[queen oar]

I mean yeah, I did use multiple Tyrannosaurs for reference. So, I probably did those after Daspletosaurus, although it's to note that part of the illusion that some theropods have short arms, it's also because they are pretty bent close to the chest, and also not hanging on the air.

[fluid inlet]

I shouldn’t said carcharodontosaurid anyways , 2 digits vs 3

[queen oar]

What do you know? Maybe there will be some foreshadowing, and we'll find out that some Giganotosaurinis were loosing their third digit gradually.

[fluid inlet]

lol

[thorn grove]

foot

[fluid inlet]

Foot off In the chat , winner gets mega theropod foot replica

[fluid inlet]

Not easy to draw tho huh lol I find the whole theropod leg past the thigh a challenge lol

[thorn grove]

tbf I'm not spending long on these but yea it's harder than I assumed ig

[queen oar]

you want a advice?

[thorn grove]

i always want for it is human nature to want

[queen oar]

Just draw some lines as if they are meant to be the bones. You can then control the angle of which the foot is being seen from and correct the length of each part from there.

[thorn grove]

this occurred to me within my enormous brain of course but I was too lazy at the time