paleontology

[charred hearth]

do you know where it originates from?

[burnt hare]

Not sure where the neck is from but the skull has always been unusually large, especially for a flying creature. Paleo artists may have done the thick neck to show just what was needed to support and keep such a large skull up.

[queen vortex]

Take your time to watch this pijon

[outer tusk]

there's almost never one exact origins for alot of paleoart like these but it usually comes from the idea of Hatz having a more "robust" build compared to other large pterosaurs based on referred materials

[charred hearth]

and im gonna assume thats just a misconception?

[balmy oyster]

Sort of

What we have of hatze btw

[charred hearth]

but yeah, would those two hatz even be able to fly efficently?

[runic heart]

No not even close

[burnt hare]

I believe the closest analogs would be the pelican and shoebill stork, though there are theories that the Azdarchids didn’t spend anywhere near as much time in the air as other pterosaurs, and even then the theory goes that they would depend more on gliding rather than powered flight.

[runic heart]

They couldn’t even walk bro

[charred hearth]

explain

[runic heart]

No need to, that head is literally too big for the body to hold up.

[charred hearth]

okay then just say that, not every one has the brain power to understand that and the iq needed to be smart and observate

[burnt hare]

Look up erythrosuchus, you’d be surprised at how big heads can get compared to bodies.

[runic heart]

Right but that’s not nearly as bad as THIS

[burnt hare]

True, but it’s the same principle. Just because we see no current examples of cranial gigantism doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And I think you’re overestimating the head there. The neck is making it look far bigger than it actually is. Cut the neck down about 50% and it’s a far more reasonable image

[runic heart]

I’m aware, but in this case, it’s a lightly built body for flying against a giant head with a really oversized and fat neck.

[outer tusk]

Erythrosuchus also suffers from this paleomeme it's head well still very big is not as bobblehead as one might think

[tough parcel]

(It was also the same artist that sparked the meme)

[warped peak]

Behold

[misty scarab]

Greatness

[plush fossil]

Most complete skeletal ever🥹 beautiful

[zealous ravine]

On the topic of complete skeletons, decided to use my Xiong as a base for a Timurlengia skel, currently scaled to the maxilla ZIN PH 676/16.

[lofty creek]

vro

this is holotype

not the all we have of hatz

the skull part of hatz already shows that hatzs had a unique wider skull with a lot of muscle attached on the large ridges on it, and theres a huge robust neck vertebrae(EME 315) assigned to H.sp

and I remember we also have a lower jaw of the thing, theres a strange bulge at the down side of the jaw

[charred hearth]

so would it have a neck larger then most azdarchids ? even if its not as exaggerated like in the art

[fossil ingot]

We also have a "Hatz" Refered Skull
But for Hatz itself is just the Holotype

[lofty creek]

the art is probably not quite exaggerated

the shape of the lower jaw shows that maybe there was some soft tissue connect the neck and the lower jaw so it could even looks bigger

I dunno how to call that part
gonna find a pic

ok not gonna find it then

but the skull frgament and the neck vertebrae already supports hatz having a quite robust head& neck

[charred hearth]

wait what?

[fossil ingot]

That Lower Jaw is not even Hatz anymore
Is not even assigned to anything but a close relative of Hatz

[charred hearth]

so, ignoring PoT's hatz posture, how accurate is hatz neck / head? and like size..and stuff

[warped peak]

We do not. The skeletal contains all the Hatzeg material assigned to the genus

[quasi token]

gotta love azhdarchids being like, 2 bones each outside of a handful lol

[charred hearth]

i dont know how the two fragments of hatz exactly show / support it having a robust neck and head

[fossil ingot]

This is Hatz with all the refered material it had with it
With the Material circle in red been what we actually have properly assigned to Hatz/The Holotype
The Rest is just refered material that is no longer even Assigned to Hatz

[lofty creek]

I believe at least that neck vertebrae has been assigned into the genus as H.sp

[fossil ingot]

Most of the old previous refered material however is still been placed as a Close relative of it
And yes this Includes the Neck which is not assigned to anything

[charred hearth]

can someone break this down for me in caveman language

[lofty creek]

Darren Naish and Mark Witton paper

[fossil ingot]

Hatz is Shitty

[charred hearth]

i remember a hatz holding me hostage in water as a baby and any time i tried to get out if clamped me and put me back in, watching as i slowly struggled to keep swimming and watching me slowly drown

[fossil ingot]

"Referable"
Literally what the vert has always been
Yet has no overlap and isn't even surely Hatz

Which is why just left as close relative of it in the Meantime

[charred hearth]

i dont quite understand mizu's other claim of the two things we have of hatz supporting a robust neck/head

[lofty creek]

azhdarchids now splitted into 2 main route, 1 is Quetz like including Thanatos, another is robust type including Cryo+Hatz

[outer tusk]

What is robust about Cryo 😭

[charred hearth]

oh okay, i guess that makes sense!

[outer tusk]

cryo doesn't look more robust?

[fossil ingot]

Life

[charred hearth]

so i just wanna know, what makes the hatz fragments show its head and neck are robust?

[fossil ingot]

From Hatz itself?
Nothing

However they are Robust Fragments nearby that show a Robust animal for the family

[lofty creek]

itself is not

the author put it as a middle one of the robust type, more robust than the quite primitive ones but less than hatz

[charred hearth]

oh okay i guess that makes sense

[fossil ingot]

Can you atleast put everything of the Pic?

[warped peak]

(Being assigned as Hatzeg specimen just means it was in the same area as Hatzeg and doesn't match another Pterosaur, not that it Hatzeg)

[fossil ingot]

I would take a Look at This if it wasn't Paid LOL
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14772019.2025.2569368

[lofty creek]

1. the skull fragment could be restored into a wider braincase than quetz or other some azhdarchids
2. large ridges and neural spines are large and robust, suggesting quite a lot amount of muscle was attached to the head

[outer tusk]

3. this is based on nothing confidently

[umbral socket]

How valid is Mira now? I found some stuff saying it was likely it could be Dacentrurus from a year ago and was wondering the validity of that

[lofty creek]

bro
wasnt is read as "Hatzegopteryx.sp"?

[fossil ingot]

You don't even show the full thing on why they claim that

[fossil ingot]

Atm iirc Mira is Valid
Got few things recently that made it different from Dacen

[umbral socket]

I see, thank you for responding :)

[fossil ingot]

https://repositorio.lneg.pt/entities/publication/97e1df73-0734-45d7-b75d-bf4cf012f252

I think this is it?

[lofty creek]

the holotype head(B) comparing with quetz(E)

[warped peak]

Yes. When there's no material overlap, it cannot be determined confidently as Hatzegopteryx

It is similar to what would be found in a large pterosaur, and since there are no other large pterosaurs in the area, that is why it is referred

[fossil ingot]

The Holotype for Hatz doesn't even have a Head

[lofty creek]

so u have any good evidence of another giant pterosaur in hateg?

thats not even necessarily to be discussed here

if u wanna argue against that conclusion, u shall bring some good evidence of a giant pterosaur there that is able to be seperated from hatz first, otherwise we shall just continue any hatz dscussion based on that only 1 giant pterosaur existing in the area

[fossil ingot]

Yeah this should be the Miragaia thing
It just doesn't load for me for some reason lol

[warped peak]

The reason it is "sp" is that the material has no shared attributed or anything comparable to refer it to, so the referral is tentative and not diagnostic

[umbral socket]

Its not loading for me either 😭

[fossil ingot]

I mean
The Material.has no Overlap with the Holotype
You can't confidently assigne it to the Genus, The Holotype is like 2 Pieces which doesn't show an Animal much more robust.
The Last Paper of the Family Talks About it and Places as a Close Relative and not even Hatz sp like it does with other Sp in the own chart
I even posted the Link of said Article, i just can't see it cause iits Paid
If you want to paid to look at it
Go on

[warped peak]

Its like how many Black Panther sightings in Ontario are written off

Regardless of what it actually is, theres nothing in the area that can actually be assigned. Whether or not there's actually a breeding population of melanistic Jaguars isn't the point. Unless diagnostic material is found, nothing can be stated with confidence. Even if there are hundreds of eye witness reports of them

Science doesnt work on "what else is there", it works on what we can probably know. Assuming that the black panther is a black puma because thats what should be there only causes issues, especially when never once has a Black Puma ever been documented sighted in the wild.

[lofty creek]

yes
and this paper still agree with that neck vertebrae as H.sp lol
in the comment of the part of "A clade containing Hatzegopteryx and other robust eastern European quetzalcoatlines"after the analysis

[fossil ingot]

Its Basically that new material from new specimen was founded and alot of anatomical differences were founded that the previous paper that Lumped Mira Skipped

[lofty creek]

they really did some analysis on those romanian materials and still put them all into the genus Hatzegopteryx, just cant make sure if they are H. thambema

I can email u a pdf of this paper if u need it

[fossil ingot]

So refered Material
Basically what they have always been
Refered Material lumped to a Species but isn't confidently in the same species
Basically nothing changes LOL

[lofty creek]

yes

basically I can still talk about that neck vertebrae as valid Hatzegopteryx material and u have no more reason to against me than support yourself LOL

unless u find a new hateg giant pterosaur now

[fossil ingot]

They make refer to them to Close relatives of Hatz because that kinda is the Only thing you can do with them
They suck so much you can't make a new species or genus
And nor are actually Confidently Hatz due to to Overlap
Which is why the own paper in the Family Tree places them as close relatives

[lofty creek]

better than 4047 or 11888 or some other bullsh into S. aegyptiacus discussion

if everyone could accept focus on 11888 when talking about the genus Spinosaurus, why cant we just accept this

[fossil ingot]

You can't say "H. Thambema" looks like this cause this Material isn't H. Thambema

What You CAN say is that possible Hatz Species Likely was more Robust than Any other Family Member
But we can't Confidently say H. Thambema was like that

[lofty creek]

wasnt we talking about what Hatzegopteryx looks like
instead of H.thambema

so its totally ok to talk about some H.sp here

also u couldnt throw this aside even if u wanna restore H.thambema itself

[fossil ingot]

Cause Sadly the Neotype of Spino is Actually Assigned to Spinosaurus Ageyptiacus(for now), unlike this
MSNM and NHMUK due suck, NHMUK slightly less due to actually been slightly overlapping with the Holotypes iirc

The Neotype been assigned to Aegyptiacus is a Whole Topic on its Own.

@lofty creek we only have a 1 Valid Hatz Species
Not what a Possible Hatz Species that is also likely not Hatz may look like

[lofty creek]

does ICZN themselves even know they assigned 11888 to Spinosaurus aegyptiacus as a neotype?😂

its officially a Spinosauridae indet till now

[fossil ingot]

I mean
It has no overloapping with thambema, you can Place it as a Close relative sure, but it is not thambema

Is the Neck Vert Possibly Hatz?
Yeah
Is it Thambems? No
Is it a New Species? Possibly
Is it a new Animal and not Hatz genus? Possibly as well lol

This happens why?
Cause it sucks

@lofty creek lord knows, and we still need to See what More Ibrahim does and what the new Schimitar Spinosaur does
Wether its a New Species of Spino or smth different

[fossil ingot]

If Only Hatz had a Small mainly complete skeletal like Lawsoni it would make things easier

[lofty creek]

yes

so, as no one is even try proving the fact that 11888 is S.aegyptiacus or not, it just remains as a Spinosauridae indet

that more sucks than the neck vertebrae

at least we can legally say neck vertebrae is a valid H. sp material now

[charred hearth]

would hatz have the strength to open a dead sauropod corspe

[lofty creek]

no

unless baby

still more likely to eat whole even its a baby

like 10kg, 20kg? thats likely the extreme thing it could eat

[fossil ingot]

Ibrahim calls the Neotype Spinosaurus, Hell
Sobek is basically the Neotype
We need to wait what Xraziness Ibrahim does

[lofty creek]

yes lets waiting for 1000k more ibrahim & sereno debating paper on if 11888 swims well or not

[charred hearth]

the virgin hatz must await for the chad Balaur to open up the magyarosaurus corspe

[fossil ingot]

Cause Peak wdym...

[lofty creek]

what if balaur is herbi

[charred hearth]

its a herbi?

[lofty creek]

also why cant hatz just waiting near a magyaro, waiting balaur to come and swallow balaur instead

[fossil ingot]

[lofty creek]

and

last thing I need to say

the pic that pantz posted is
uh
not quite extraggrated for anyone that have seen the PNSO Hatzgeopteryx( )

[charred hearth]

show a image of it rq

[lofty creek]

full muscle

vro didnt skip neck day

[fossil ingot]

Bro is a Gigantic Tucan

[charred hearth]

oh my god.

no way that can be anywhere near possible

[warped peak]

See now that is stupid

[queen vortex]

Now WHAT is that

[charred hearth]

would that even be able to fly

[jade laurel]

Halszkaraptor has just come to my attention 🦆 ❤

[queen vortex]

It looks adorable

Let’s show some love to psitaccosaurus

[charred hearth]

i love tacos

[jade laurel]

One of only a handful who we know is being depicted accurately-ish

[queen vortex]

That’s correct

[jade laurel]

Sinosauropteryx will remain my favorite until and unless someone cuter is discovered as well-preserved.
Panda Chicken ❤🤍🖤

[lofty creek]

stolen specimen btw

why it's always german researcher working on illegal materials

[hardy sentinel]

Nanotyrannus is distinct, and now Miragaia is too. Hell yeah

Did Troodontids and Dromaeosaurids come from tree dwelling flighted/gliding ancestors?

[stable sun]

Since when?

[stable sun]

Why is Bakonydraco circled

[cyan nest]

Guys I have important shark questions because I feel like chat gpt is wrong on this. Last I heard, megalodon was considered to be closer (physical appearance wise) to a mako has this changed again? Apart from this, have carcharodontids been redefined as descending from odontids instead of Isurus?

Nvm chat gpt is just stupid and wrong and I am right and smart.

[jade laurel]

There's a mod that allows you to play one in PoT, and yes, (as interpreted by the artist) they are adorable💗

[queen vortex]

Every Dino looks adorable

[jade laurel]

Takahe Borb 🫐🦤

[queen vortex]

Round is where the love is stored

[granite thicket]

Alberta and duck is just textures
Cera needs a prominent nasal horn

Btw has there been description of "dracula" yet?

[runic heart]

Where’s titanovenator at. We getting gta 6 before the proper titanovenator description.

[undone rapids]

Probably still a while away, the formation has a lot of animals and even an extremely large sauropod.

Africa after Turonian was probably filled with Giant abelisaurs we just don't have much of a record from that time period

[outer tusk]

there's apparently "spinosaur" material for their as well

[runic heart]

Dated to when?

[undone rapids]

That was already mentioned to be a croc

[runic heart]

Are abelisaurs usually generalists, or are there cases of them having their own unique niches in certain ecosystems?

[outer tusk]

I think they would be fine generalists especially large species

[outer tusk]

damn, well probably not described are there some measurments for the croc? (SOMEONE PLEASE REMOVE THIS BUM AH COOLDOWN)

[runic heart]

Cooldown is horrendous

[undone rapids]

Hard to say, they were doing something pretty different with how they're skulls and bodies are. Probably a bit of both depending on Abelisaur, they're extremely diverse

[undone rapids]

Don't think so, but Pretty sure its the one right under Kenyan abeli in the chart I sent

Here's a Vid from the Museum where most of the material of kenya is, with the main author of the paper describing everything there. Its where the chart I sent above comes from and he talks a good bit about all the animals they've found and what's unique about them : https://youtu.be/VrDqbvSaHB0?list=LL

[outer tusk]

I seriously need to watch videos liek these again am feel like am slacking on my actually GOOD paleo media

ngl 70s deinocherius does sounds pretty cool

[scenic solar]

Paleontology is so fire

Because I'm new I want to ask everyone's favourite dinosaur mine is the acrocanthosaurus

[runic heart]

That was my favorite for a while, until I realized that everything is equally as cool.

[native kindle]

Shunosaurus

[hardy sentinel]

Utahraptor if we're going off of named dinos, but for me I like ZIN PH 11/16 (Bissekty giant) because it's the largest Dromaeosaurid fossil discovered

[lavish frigate]

Tyrannosaurus rex because it’s really cool and that’s a valid reason to love a thing

looks judgmentally at the rex hater crowd

[outer tusk]

there's no reason to hate T.rex when Tristan Otto exist

[scenic solar]

Yeah I don't understand why some people hate the rex probably just because it was popular in a film

[scenic solar]

That's definitely one of the most interesting ones I've heard after looking into it

[scenic solar]

Sauropods are super cool and that one has like a club on its tail pretty awesome

[undone rapids]

The greatest animal that stepped upon this soil

[scenic solar]

Is that carnotauraus?

[undone rapids]

Yup, a very nice reconstruction by Mark Witton

[scenic solar]

I was just playing carno on pot

[undone rapids]

Vid also has this, I forgor.

[scenic solar]

This is all the bones we have of the acrocanthosaurus combined

[scenic solar]

Yeh

[charred hearth]

honest question

if edmontosaurus didnt live with rex, would it still be popular?

[stiff osprey]

back in the 1900s? yes. today? no

[charred hearth]

anky and trike are the largest of their species so i believe they'd still be popular without rex

[sudden wind]

Perhaps Edmonto would still be quite popular if it had the same preservation bias.

[river plinth]

Yes if edmontosaurus didn't live with rex I'd feel bad for any other carnivore that Isn't able to reach the same size or larger than a t rex 😅

[charred hearth]

zhu already lives with shant

[undone rapids]

Most Tyrannosaurs didn't dwarf their hadros, that was just a rex thingie it seems

[thorn grove]

Albertosaurus coexisted fine with E. regalis which is like the same average size as E. annectens

[nocturne ore]

Has anyone read Raptor Red By Robert Bakker?

[stiff osprey]

I have, great book

[compact leaf]

for sure

[charred hearth]

Isnt raptor red a youtuber

[tulip dove]

Red Raptor Writes?

[charred hearth]

yea

[light osprey]

For no other tyrannosaur has ever had to hunt a 4tonne hadrosaur

[outer tusk]

This has to be a joke right? am saying this scarily since we have literally regalis which was a species didn't ofc lived with T. rex

[balmy oyster]

If it still had the same amount of specimen preservation, I’d say yes

5 - 6t average NA hadrosaur would still be talked about a lot even if elsewhere on the continent

[charred hearth]

it would, but i feel like majority of people talk about edmontosaurus in tandom with rex

[night flare]

Is it possible for Mosasaurs to have had sonar like whales today? (I am not saying they're related)

[sudden wind]

No

[pulsar galleon]

No, they don’t have the same cranial structure to accommodate a melon organ like what cetaceans have

[night flare]

I see. Thanks for the info. 🤔

[zealous ravine]

Keep in mind Fran is probably something else, Acro is probably a bit of a wastebasket

[outer tusk]

wastebasket with one possible new genus?

[stiff osprey]

Yeah wastebasket would be overstating it, it's two species that are probably closely related

[jade laurel]

Yeah, toothed whales have very conspicuous indentations in their skulls which show you where the melon is.

[jade laurel]

Someone modded this cutie pie into PoT?!

[brave nova]

Db has yea

[runic heart]

Well I think we can all assume what the next creature/tlc update is.

[plush fossil]

Is this true at all?? I'm gonna assume it's not

[warped peak]

...no

[normal fable]

Nah that's 100% true

[plush fossil]

Thought so LOL
Never trust a YouTube comment XD

[runic heart]

Kaiwekia remake hopefully, and leedsichthys. Like, they released a whole aquatic map, it’d be weird if leedichthys isn’t soon.

[winter marsh]

dawg, a fricking deer has tusks that resemble the Smilodon more than cats do. It isnt even a correlation cuz like where tf do you even pull that from

[plush fossil]

Literally LOL

I was like ???

[winter marsh]

''the eagle is certainly a descendant of the Terror bird because of its hooked beak'' ahh

[runic heart]

This thing looks so good!!! 😭

[compact leaf]

stego would come before kai id think, it’s been waiting forever

[jade laurel]

I'm making one now❤

[runic heart]

Right, but regardless, Kai is happening around the same time as leedsichthys due to similar mechanics being added to both. As for leedsichthys, they just added an aquatic map for a reason.

[winter marsh]

is Kai confirmed to be getting filter feeding?

[runic heart]

Well uh.. hmm. Even google ai brings up pot in this debate. No, Kaiwhekea was not a filter feeder. Honestly, just replace it with morturneria or something at this point, it’d make for a more interesting playable.

[bright veldt]

??? Why would it not be?

It's an aristonectine like them, if less derived.

[runic heart]

I guess its smaller uniform teeth suggested it was better for catching fish, and more specifically small squid.

[bright veldt]

What evidence is there for this, is the thing. All suggestions for fish/squid eating happened when it wasn't thought to be an aristonectine.

[ionic crescent]

Make Kaiwhekea Herb playable tag once filter feeding becomes a thing with Leed 🗣️

[bright veldt]

Aristonectines have been compared in anatomical trends with filter feeding to baleen whales, and kaiwhekea wasn't excluded from this.

[runic heart]

Right but kaiwhekea’s teeth are different apparently

[bright veldt]

How?

[runic heart]

If a filter feeding plesiosaur is to be added, morturneria is probably the better option.

[bright veldt]

Kaiwhekea was less derived but I have yet to see anything that suggests it wasn't filter-feeding like it's relatives. Arguments for it being an outlier are almost purely on outdated information.

[charred hearth]

how much would its filter feeding differ from leeds?

[runic heart]

Apparently filter feeding is the outdated option

[bright veldt]

Source?

[ionic crescent]

Honestly, there is nothing confirmed about it

Tho they can just NOT add filter feeding and make Leed hunt fish (which would destroy my mood if was the case)

[winter marsh]

ATP just make it bottom comb and eat crustaceans like uhh idk

[runic heart]

Ok so there isn’t exactly a direct source about kaiwhekea being a filter feeder. The filter feeding hypothesis is mostly exclusive to aristonectes itself and closely related genera, due to their very unique dentition. Kaiwhekea is spared from the filter feeding idea, as it’s more basal and doesn’t have the teeth for filter feeding.

[runic heart]

This makes more sense to me.

[bright veldt]

Except that, as I stated before, there is a noted trend for aristonectines being filter feeders, there are 0 suggestions for non-filter feeding aristonectines, unless you can actually provide a source on this.

[runic heart]

Honestly, they should add gastroliths to its playstyle just to be funny and spice it up.

[runic heart]

I don’t need one, because there are also no sources stating that Kaiwhekea was a filter feeder. Try to find one for me, cause I couldn’t.

[river plinth]

And shant

[bright veldt]

Given this paper points to aristonectines being filter feeders, and kaiwhekea was included if not mentioned directly, what is the indication that it wouldn't be similar? The bulk of the article is behind a paywall unfortunately but that is where the image I shared before came from. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02724634.2017.1347570

[river plinth]

2-3 tons still a bit on the short end(montosarus) of 5 tons or a bit higher but I can see them picking off yong or weak individuals

[bright veldt]

Given that they're very closely related, being in the same subfamily, there's not really anything to suggest kaiwhekea wasn't doing the same thing they were doing. Unless non-filterfeeding aristonectines are known to exist but I don't believe that is the case.

[river plinth]

You mean 5 ton even then its still likely they can get much bigger unlike regalis💀

[compact leaf]

and I mean also, just look at its teeth and you can see it’s essentially the same arrangement as other aristonectines

[outer tusk]

I think Sarq you lost it when you used ai 😭

[charred hearth]

i meant like, irl

[bright veldt]

Leedsichthys was a ram filter feeder. Just swimming through the water column intaking free-floating plankton, like most baleen whales, basking sharks, and whale sharks. Aristonectines were benthic filter-feeders, taking in mouthfuls of sediment on the sea floor and filtering out the crustaceans, akin to gray whales.

[charred hearth]

gray whales do that? but their so big , im trying to picture a gray whale doing that and i cant

[compact leaf]

they sure do, benthic sift feeding

[charred hearth]

damn they really do that

[outer tusk]

Sand eater

[charred hearth]

is there any other type of filter feeding besides ram and benthic?

[bright veldt]

I mean I'm sure in terms of specifics there probably are but those are the two main ones. Benthic filter-feeding is less known but is the ancestral filter-feeding style in many vertebrates. It's known that baleen whales and the ancestors of basking sharks started out as benthic filter feeders before switching to food in the water column instead.

[granite thicket]

what type of fliter feeders do humpback and blue whales count as?

[bright veldt]

Basically all baleen whales minus the gray feed in the water column.

(note that I'm not suggesting with these two bits of info that gray whales stayed benthic filter feeders while the rest didn't, given what we know of rorqual evolution gray whale ancestors were probably also pelagic filter filters before switching to benthic)

Pelagic filter feeding is the right term btw that's my mistake. Ram is a mechanical method of feeding. Pelagic is in the open water column. Benthic is on the sea floor. Ram feeding is feeding by just moving forward with your mouth open (whale sharks and basking sharks). Most baleen whales that filter feed do what's called lunge feeding instead (gulping/enveloping food before filtering it out).

[charred hearth]

what was eurnihos hunting style / niche?

[warped peak]

yummy fish

[granite thicket]

prob similar to marlins

idk if their snouts were bladed like those of marlins tho

[charred hearth]

hell nah they werent

[granite thicket]

possibly used as sensory organs for precisely aiming their bites or smth then idk
they're prob marlin equivalents anyways

[winter marsh]

probably more used for thrusting

[bright veldt]

We don't really know what eurhino was doing with its nose.

[runic heart]

I seriously couldn’t find anything that mentioned Kaiwhekea. But what do you have to say about it?

[granite thicket]

one thing I find being super weird with eurhino is how the teeth extends all the way to the tip of the upper jaw

[runic heart]

Plus all the ai said was stuff about the Pot argument which wasn’t helpful

[ashen wedge]

What’s wrong with it?

[granite thicket]

just feels weird the it has teeth on part of the jaw that doesn't even come in contact with the lower jaw

[runic heart]

Doesn’t necessarily mean it was using those teeth for anything in particular, but yeah it’s pretty odd.

[bright veldt]

I mean eurhino is just weird. We don't really know what it was doing with the nose. Both modern analogues people bring up have flaws. Eurhino's teeth are downwards, rather than to the side like a sawfish's. Billfish don't exactly work either because their bills are actually rather broad when observed close up.

[runic heart]

I mean tbf the only other example of schnoz extension like this is in marlins and stuff which didn’t have teeth to begin with, so idk.

[granite thicket]

maybe it swung its snout downwards

[runic heart]

I can imagine a eurhinosaurus swimming around with stuff stuck on its snout though, cause anything it impales isn’t getting away, or being eaten easily.

[granite thicket]

like those swordfishes that stab divers

[bright veldt]

Billfish don't intend to stab but it sometimes just happens by accident.

[runic heart]

Yeah but like, the teeth wouldn’t let anything leave the bill.

[winter marsh]

maybe Eurhino used its snout as a lightning rod to attract lightning and use lightning to lightning the lightning onto a random Rex main

[granite thicket]

eurhino and xinpusaurus just look super stupid
xinpu's snout may have been used likethose of saw sharks I think
to sift through sand and work as a sensory organ

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ozai-zuko-gif-25749468

[ancient crystal]

I can maybe see eurhino doing something similar to billfish with either the same side to side motion or perhaps an up and down motion intending to use the teeth on their rostrum

However I say that with no knowledge of their skeleton and whether or not that's something they would have been capable of doing

[granite thicket]

I feel like up and down motion would be very inefficient tho
that's what bugs me
what if we're reconstructing them wrong and their teeth were facing sideways after all?
kinda liek the sabertooth salmon situation

[runic heart]

And again, anything that gets impaled isn’t coming off for a while.

[ashen wedge]

Have we considered that it could suck the prey in that is trapped on the teeth?

[runic heart]

I mean, whatever’s on could be far from the mouth. I guess all it has to do is thrash around until it’s ripped to pieces.

[ancient crystal]

It wriggled its top lip and its teeth would move across its face like a conveyor belt

[charred hearth]

first water type with lightning rod

[winter marsh]

nah, it used its upper half as an harpoon that it can launch and retrieve using a special muscle, like a frog tongue

[plush fossil]

Maybe it would've been for display? If that makes sense at all

Or sparring? Idk

[lofty furnace]

Found this bird in in the new map, anyone knows what It is?

[ancient crystal]

The lowpolyasaurus

[plush fossil]

-# this bird is in gondwa too

[lofty furnace]

Wait really? Never seen, i still think It's based on some irl bird, and i guess it's extinct because it has teeth

[lofty furnace]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go through the effort of making a whole highly polyshed model for a bird that does nothing and only appears on like 5 points of the map at a height barely anyone would go, but maybe he gets more polished if you get closer, idk really

[bleak rose]

It's toothed beak reminds me of a Pelagornis (though it doesn't really seem like it is one. Just throwing stuff at the wall)

[lofty furnace]

I think pelagornis is a bit too big to be this one, maybe It's Icthyornis, but the teeth seem too big to be it

[bleak rose]

Oh my, I had forgotten that icthyornis existed

Perhaps it is a species belonging to ichthyornithidae, i think you may be nailing it with that

[light osprey]

If it is supposed to be ichthyornis it’s not great

[bright veldt]

Yeah the beak reminds me more of pelagornithids if anything.

[charred hearth]

whats the earliest animal in the game? ( if we count critters )

[granite thicket]

diplocaulus?

[woeful falcon]

Yeah. So its probably just low poly pelagornis/generic pelagornithid

[charred hearth]

do y'all think leed would be able to be kept in captivity like whale sharks or would they be to big?

[hardy sentinel]

...

[topaz shell]

Lol I seen that
I mean they aren’t exactly THAT wrong (it’s still wrong)

[runic heart]

It’s the surprisingly not-cheap knockoff that the mammals made.

[ashen wedge]

That is a possibility

[runic rover]

Expensive knockoff*

[runic heart]

Is it possible that the color and melanin preserved in fossils is redish brown purely due to the nature of fossilization? Whether it’s the most common color to preserve, or the color is shifted that way due to fossilization processes, it seems weird that most dinosaurs we have the color of are redish brown. And yes, I’m suspicious of psittacosaurus and borealopelta as well.

[outer tusk]

idk how basilosaurus is a "knockoff" of mosasaurus even in a joking manner when both show differing niches

[honest cape]

They're both ten-ton torpedoes with nightmare teeth

[outer tusk]

Basilosaurus cetodies is a little bigger than 10 tonnes but I think it's not really a torpedoes if we're regarding speed

[tough parcel]

How would cells be affected by fossilization

Especially in a way they still matched modern-day cells

[plush fossil]

How was majungasaurus discovered to be a cannibal? If I'm thinking of the right dinosaur

[tough parcel]

Bite marks on the bones matched Majungasaurus dentition but it's not the only cannibal dinosaur nor is it abnormally cannibalistic

[runic heart]

Well in that case wouldn’t the redish melanosomes just fossilize easier somehow? And were redish melanosomes actually found on the borealopelta, or was the skin color just preserved?

[stiff osprey]

Melanosomes are always yellow to brown/red, and they do fossilize easier, that's why we haven't found dinosaurs in other colors

[runic heart]

So it’s probably safe to assume the other melanosomes in borealopelta that weren’t redish brown were degraded, yes?

[stiff osprey]

No, because melanosomes are always yellow to brown/red

It could have had other colors based on other kinds of pigment

[tough parcel]

Heh...oh Lancian!

[outer tusk]

lmao I get the reference

[runic heart]

But those pigments didn’t preserve, technically making the answer to my question yes?

[stiff osprey]

Calling them all melanosomes would imply that they all have equal chances of preserving, but assuming you meant pigments, then yes

There's also structural colors (mainly blue) that don't come from pigments. But those would probably be preserved if the melanosomes did as well

[runic heart]

Ooooh wait I see now. Melanosomes are one type of pigmenting. I guess I didn’t realize that.

[manic beacon]

Does anyone have specific information to the current phylogenetic placement of plesiosaurs?

[light osprey]

Melanosones produce eumelanin and pheomelanin pigmentation, that’s black/brown, and tan/rufous

[runic heart]

So what produces the rest

[stiff osprey]

you'd think that would be clear from the lipless T.rex

[craggy trench]

He isn’t lipless anymore but yeah they take some creative liberties

[runic heart]

I’ve said this before, but there’s too much “could be” and not enough “should be” in paleo media these days. Why can’t we have a cool piece of media, documentary or game, that actually tries to be 100% accurate.

[stiff osprey]

We did, it failed at being an entertaining game and then got scalped by its own devs

[astral junco]

Greetings people who know more about size accuracy than I do. How accurate is Tylo's size in-game? I hear people say they like it & other say it is not accurate & under sized

[stiff osprey]

I'm pretty sure it's longer than Sarco which is 12 meters, so close to maximum size for a tylosaur

[warped peak]

It looks about right, although not maximum for Tylo ye

The skinny-ness is accurate tho

[charred hearth]

do we know the exact specimen used for tylo?

[warped peak]

No, Tylo isn't really THAT distinct and has a million specimens

[charred hearth]

really? dont we know the exact specimen they used for the rex tlc?

[warped peak]

Tyrannosaurus has highly variable and distinct skulls

Tylo doesn't really

[charred hearth]

ooh okay

what specimen did they use for the rex tlc? i think it was scotty?

[native kindle]

i don't think its actually based on a specific specimen. which im thankful for personally

[runic heart]

Compared to this tylo, how thick would mosasaurus and prognathodon realistically have been?

[snow python]

How big is the biggest Tylo we have?

[warped peak]

About the same

Tylo hits about 12.5 - 13m IIRC

[runic heart]

Even then, sauria had its fair share of speculative reconstructions. I’d like to see something like it attempted again, obviously with modern info and a less scummy dev team. Imagine something like Ecos: La Brea but for hell creek or some other formation.

[runic heart]

Oh so they were all fairly slender?

[warped peak]

Yep

[runic heart]

Only big difference was the skull shape then?

[outer tusk]

well yeah

[charred hearth]

funfact, tylo is the third largest animal in game ( if you use irl weight )

[warped peak]

After Leedsichthys and Tyrannosaurus yep

[charred hearth]

whos 4th and 5th?

[runic heart]

Can’t imagine leedsichthys wouldn’t be the next playable, since they just added an aquatic map.

[warped peak]

I believe Spino, and either Tyrannotitan or Deinocheirus?

[stiff osprey]

How, exactly, is Saurian more speculative than Ecos

[charred hearth]

really? i'd expect 5th to be like, stego or bars

[ancient crystal]

It probably will be just by virtue of micro likely being a pain in the ass to make

[charred hearth]

does bars even get to 8 tons?

[outer tusk]

about 6-7 tonne maybe

[ancient crystal]

Metric tons are also called long tons right?

[stiff osprey]

long tons are a larger measurement iirc

[runic heart]

Well… I guess it’s not, just outdated I suppose. Still though, Ecos is pretty fun for what it is. A simple yet fun game would leave room for more work in terms of accuracy and visual appeal.

[charred hearth]

saurian if it was suscessful

[runic heart]

No complex growth system or anything, just playables to represent the fauna of the environment, and an unlock system to reflect creatures commonality within the ecosystem.

[ancient crystal]

Really? I thought the long and short labels would have been referring to the size difference between imperial and metric tons

[stiff osprey]

Yeah long tons are exactly 2240 lbs, which is an imperial measurement. Short tons are also imperial and are 2000 lbs. Metric tons are the normal one

[runic heart]

Now I’m wondering which Mesozoic formation would be the most interesting to make in this form. Hell creek, ignoring how often it’s used, is still probably the best option.

[opaque kayak]

Same, but they do need to down it with game mechanic accuracy. I got cancer seeing them not add alamosaurus even though they made everything for it bc it was "not accurate in hell creek"

[foggy river]

i made claims about ecos that were not necessarily true based on misinformation I obtained

Keeping the original context but I am misinformed of the full scope of the situation so pls do not regard it ❤️

[stiff osprey]

what on earth is a deleting allegation

[outer tusk]

those allegations are just out of context ss from almost 7+ years ago that has no backing bones to it besides haters being haters and if there was Ecos woudln't be where it is now

[tough parcel]

Noodle, may I speak with you

[outer tusk]

he's gonna slime you out, cratel style

[charred hearth]

ignoring the execution

is ceratosaurus the most mistreated dinosaur in paleomedia?

[outer tusk]

no

[full lagoon]

Nowhere near it

[runic heart]

Those are very old allegations, the devs were a lot younger and immature then.

[charred hearth]

i feel like jurassic fight club significantly boosts it mistreatment wise

[outer tusk]

Ah yes Jurassic Fight Club

[foggy river]

I’ve amended my comment

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/allosaurus-ceratosaurus-killing-biting-dinosaurs-gif-17288316

monsters resurrected son or jurassic fight club daughter

[charred hearth]

just delete the message

[foggy river]

Honestly I’d rather maintain accountability that I was wrong but I can adjust

[tough parcel]

It's fine, they understand the situation now

Don't press it

[foggy river]

Me fix

[hardy sentinel]

They're both amniotes that swim

[ancient crystal]

Surface level similarities surely mean similar ecology

[outer tusk]

if only that was the case fr fr

[hardy sentinel]

Basilosaurus has a cooler skull imo

[charred hearth]

livy solo's both

[hardy sentinel]

Ragebait

[ancient crystal]

I feel like 90% of the time Livy is mentioned in discussions like these, it's ragebait

[charred hearth]

is this not a cooler skull??

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/edp-i-mean-its-all-right-gif-26702511

[plucky basin]

ahem..

[hardy sentinel]

I prefer my aquatic apex carnivore skulls streamline and scary

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/tony-stark-iron-man-well-you-are-wrong-gif-20682152

[hardy sentinel]

Thought these were Tyrannosaurid skulls for a second

[runic heart]

Are these really both saurosuchus…?

[outer tusk]

uh yeah

[hardy sentinel]

Sexual dimorphism trust (totally not different growth stages)

[stiff osprey]

the left one seems to be reconstructed weirdly, if you take out the lump in front of the eyes and swap the missing braincase the 2 look a lot more similar

[leaden furnace]

Interactive Gondwa and Panjura Map made by Coco.N
Link: https://vulnona.com/game/map/

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-gif-1878760417600646737

[warped peak]

the pinnacle of aquatic skulls

[crimson depot]

What animal is that?

[charred hearth]

trex

[crimson depot]

No the bigger one also f cooldown

[charred hearth]

whale

[runic heart]

Yeah somebody get rid of this cooldown. Anybody willing to sacrifice themselves to ping a mod?

[charred hearth]

no

[hardy sentinel]

Whale

[balmy oyster]

It’s been like this since i could remember speaking here

[crimson depot]

Why is there even a cooldown?

[runic heart]

Cause they want to prevent a spamming event early I guess? Not ideal for us, but it lessens the severity of a cleanup of any kind for them.

[crimson depot]

Fair

[deft sigil]

Hello, as per #rules 14, Chat cooldowns are used by moderators to help moderate. Moderators will change the cooldown timer frequently based upon their moderation needs. If you have any further questions about that, feel free to DM @feral crane for further discussion!

[winter marsh]

alright

[charred hearth]

are sperm whales the only animals that orca's have been documented to avoid / not hunt at all? ( exlcuding humans )

[winter marsh]

iirc there is a very big pod of pilot whales (or another similar toothed whale) that harasses and scares off orca pods

[charred hearth]

well i would too be scared if i was getting jumped by over 100 pilot whales

have they always done that or is it recent behavior?

[stiff osprey]

Afaik pilot whales harass the fish eating orcas because they compete for fish. They don't try that with mammal eating orcas for
...obvious reasons

[charred hearth]

oh! but werent they recorded interfering with a orca hunt on a beaked whale?

[stiff osprey]

Thought that was humpbacks

[compact leaf]

it may very well have been both

[charred hearth]

i found the video but it has like, alot of blood in it so i wont send it

heres the tilte if you wanna see it though

[winter marsh]

also yeah humpback whale often harass orcas. A lot

[umbral socket]

Idk about Sperm whales but I do know that Adult Humpback whales are known to actively seek out orcas and fight them, since orcas often eat their young just for the tongue

[spice latch]

Livyatan I presume

[runic rover]

Just so happy I finished once again my collection~

[runic heart]

Kelmayisaurus:

[charred hearth]

whats the largest therapod of every continent?

[snow terrace]

coelephysis

[charred hearth]

i know the obvious ones

NA: rex

SA: giga or mapu

AFRICA: spino...?

[balmy oyster]

Yes

Asia is zhuchengtyrannus

India is…er, probably some sort of majungasaurine abelisaur

[charred hearth]

this implies india is its own continent and not apart of asia

[balmy oyster]

Oh…wait.

I swear school taught us it was a continent 💔

[compact leaf]

I mean in fairness it would’ve been its own continent at that point (or close enough)

[charred hearth]

the continents are

north america
south america
asia
europe
africa
australia
antartica
the other ice cap with polar bears
canada

[balmy oyster]

Sounds about right

[charred hearth]

whats tarbos size compared to zhuchengs?

[winter marsh]

tarbo is 10 meters, zhucheng is 11 iirc

[charred hearth]

whats the largest for europe and australia? im gonna assume antartica's is cryo's

[winter marsh]

NA: Rex SA: Giga or Oxalaia (if we had more bones)

[stiff osprey]

as an oxalaia fan trust me when i say it is nowhere close to giga size

[winter marsh]

only fossil known from it got crisped to smitherines smh

[stiff osprey]

true but that also happened to maraapunisaurus and no one's saying it could have been 3x bigger than currently estimated

or at least if they are i would like a sample of their weed

[winter marsh]

since when was oxalaia 4 meters long

[charred hearth]

whos is europes biggest?

[stiff osprey]

size is not length, oxalaia weighs about 3-4t, giga weighs 8-10

Europe's biggest is either Torvosaurus or the unnamed premaxilla that is nearly identical to torvo but earlier

[tough parcel]

Actually according to Dan Folkes newest blogpost, Giga is small

Please edit your comment accordingly

[winter marsh]

so its smaller than sucho and sigilmassa, so fun. Give Rex another 2 tons of mass

[balmy oyster]

Random which specimen did you scale your sigil to

[stiff osprey]

the biggest cervical vert, i think it ends in 118 but the skeletal has the number

[hardy sentinel]

NA: Rex
SA: Giga
Africa: Spinosaurus
Asia: Deinocheirus
Europe: Torvosaurus
Australia: Austrolovenator
Antarctica: Cryolophosaurus

[charred hearth]

NA: rex
SA: giga
AFRICA: spino
asia: zhu
europe: torvo
antartica: cryo
australia: austrolovenator

[winter marsh]

europe has Torvosaurus and oceania has Australovenator but there might be bigger ones (I think they have some undescribed carcha teeth)

[granite thicket]

zucheng might be bigger

[hardy sentinel]

Is there a goliath type of Zucheng fossil?

How complete is this supposedly larger than duck Zhucheng?

[charred hearth]

so whos larger, duck or zhu?

[granite thicket]

there's a dentary
plus a neck bone comparable in size to that of sue

[hardy sentinel]

so teeth and a vertebrae

Ion think that's enough to say it was the largest asian theropod

[granite thicket]

yes the actual decent material is similar is size to tarbo

[fossil ingot]

The Holotype of Zucheng is basically same size as Tarbo's if you use the 121cm Femur applied to Zucheng's Holotype
PIN 551-1/Tarbo is 10.9m
If you scale Zucheng Holotype of Tarbo you get like a 10m Zucheng, if you use the Femur abd more Rex proportion Zucheng you get like 11m Zucheng

[charred hearth]

so does duck win the largest asia therapod reward?

[hardy sentinel]

yup

[fossil ingot]

Suecheng, which Publicity is just a 28cm Wide D13
However Based on What Rommel Himself Said and the Small Material Vividen has Shared, Suecheng is BIG
We will learn more of this on the Paper coming on 2026

[granite thicket]

btw I tried scaling suecheng from tarbosaurus and you get size comparable to giga holotype
so I feel like it rly depends on if zucheng's proportions
if he was like tarbo or rex

[fossil ingot]

Zucheng just really depends how you scale it
Wether Based on Rex or Tarbo
Using Either Gets Suecheng Bigger than Deinoc who caps at 7.1-7.3t
I feel Rex might be better cause if the 121cm.Femur is Truly from the Holotype
It doesn't seem as Booblehead as Tarbo+Rex has some very Old Specimens
Tho Rommel Believes Tarbo might be better(for now)
We will have to wait and see on 2026

[granite thicket]

even if it isn't as bubblehead as tarbo I feel like it likely doesn't have as much girth as rex
since rex is an outlier even among tyrannosaurs

[hardy sentinel]

I love problematic Tyrannosaurs

[fossil ingot]

But Zucheng getting more love than Tarbo was not on my 2026 Book

[charred hearth]

shant and zhu is what ppl think edmonto and rex are like

[granite thicket]

I don't think there's any edmonto bigger than rex apart from X-rex

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Given the D13 is Basically Wider than 99% of Rexes D13 and only below that of Sue, plus iirc Rommel Mentioned Zucheng doesn't seem slimmer than Neither Rex and Tarbo
And Zucheng Lived with Shant, you had to be Heavy Built to deal with that
But yeah Rex is an Outlier but who are we to denied Zucheng might be too

[fossil ingot]

I think maybe Becky Giant but X-Rex is likely the biggest

[balmy oyster]

Tyrannosaurus, zhucheng, tarbo (probably), mcraeensis

Whole group’s just an outlier

[runic heart]

Leedsichthys probably wasn’t extremely slow, right? I mean, for balancing purposes in game it would have to be really slow, but how fast might it actually have been able to swim?

[scenic solar]

I just learnt in Australia paleontologists earn 125,000 aud on average which is like £68,000 a year

Thas a lot more money than what they earn in the UK which on average is like £38k a year

[umbral socket]

Yeah we likely have a Carch :3 they found fossils of Australia’s first Carch sometime in February this year. I’m excited to hear about it when they name it

[plain spade]

charcaro is larger then spino no?

[charred hearth]

is it?

[balmy oyster]

Maybe, maybe not

Hard to get a proper size estimate when you’re only a skull and your relatives move around their respective phylogeny on a yearly basis

[hardy sentinel]

lads hear me out

Fluffy baby sauropods

[charred hearth]

why

[balmy oyster]

funny

[hardy sentinel]

smol dinosaur that would prolly need feathers for heat retention

[brave nova]

NA- Rex

SA- giga possibly meraxes once big Mera gets described

Africa- seeming like spino atm

Europe- torvo

Asia- duck likely going to be Zhu once it gets described

Antarctica- cryo iirc

[charred hearth]

how large is duck? 7 tons?

[fluid inlet]

Idk ask it yourself

[charred hearth]

and how large is the large zhu expected to be?

[topaz shell]

Iirc like 8-9 tons? Smt like that I’m pretty sure

[brave nova]

There was a volumetric basing it off Rex’s with what we have which yielded 7.8t but it would be safe to say ~8t ig

[charred hearth]

tarbo never wins in life it seems

[fluid inlet]

It was an apex predator ? What ever you even talking about bud?

[charred hearth]

no one likes tarbo in its own formation, its sister rex dosent even hang out with it anymore, now her new bestie is zhu, tarbo is broke and homeless

[plain spade]

True

[green helm]

i heard that deinosuchus schwimmeri was found in columbus

[queen oar]

damn

[green helm]

is wikipedia realible?

[undone rapids]

If it has sources then yeah it can be pretty nice, though take size estimates with a pinch of salt

[green helm]

what was the averge size for edmonto do you know?

[undone rapids]

Acc to this Its around 5-6, which makes sense since there's only like 2 super huge edmontos and like a gazillion normal sized ones

[ashen wedge]

Question: how do they taste?

[green helm]

i accidentally mistook shantu for edmonto

so how would the 2 edmontosaurus reach that size

[tough parcel]

Growing probably

[true juniper]

Why do i sometimes see reconstructions of Edmonto skulls that are short and boxy then other ones that are low and cartoonishly long

[tough parcel]

Same reason T. rex has "high" variation

While the individual variation was real in life, reconstruction errors and fossil warping can create the illusion of a higher degree of it

Also that's two species of Edmontosaurus (though whether this is a difference is not known to me)

[sudden wind]

I was about to mention that these were seperate species.

However, I do wonder if their cranial morphologies had impacts on their paleobiology.

[undone rapids]

Dunno, though like falcon said, probably a combination of Deformation and different reconstruction methodologies from different people

[tough parcel]

Perhaps the robust skulls are post-musth individuals (they need a higher bite force to consume meat)

[undone rapids]

Considering musth is a periodic state, that implies the robust edmontos will return to slender long skulls once it has completely worn off

Maybe that's why we've only found 2 Super Big Edmontos too, they shrink back to normal size once musth wears off.

[tough parcel]

[outer tusk]

Yes yes this is so true

[winter marsh]

Nice. We at Brazil also have like 2 or 3 undescribed carchas, but we cant go any further because two of them is teeth and the other is a vertebrae iirc

[umbral socket]

Rip 😭

[winter marsh]

We also have the mighty combo of Jurassic ankylosaur (this is extremely rare due to we not having any described Jurassic dinosaurs and one described Ornithischian in our roster) but guess what, they footprints

Having few evidence sucks because you know something is there but you just cant prove it smh (you can, but like you cant speculate what it could be like due to the possibilities). Just look at Deltadromeus

[umbral socket]

I wish it were easier to figure out what was what 💔

[winter marsh]

Saurophaganax going from one of the largest theropods to an average sauropod 💔 (along with becoming another Allosaurus species that is large, but not as large as before)

[tough parcel]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ctsGNbMkVSM

[runic heart]

🔥 🔥 🔥

[ashen wedge]

Saurophaganax has betrayed us

[runic rover]

Basically how I expect "the mega rexes" to be like

[lavish frigate]

I hate nanotyrannus with an undying passion

But man this slaps

[stable sun]

Nomen dubium saurischian even

[ashen wedge]

I don’t hate Nano, it’s just that the evidence was iffy for it being its own genius till further research was done, so in a way, am glad that paleontology gets to progress

[last adder]

Why hate an entire genus for existing at one point?

[lavish frigate]

Because he owes me money

[ancient crystal]

Because it's a terrible genus name

Of course, GSP seems intent on presenting us with far worse alternatives, so I guess my criticisms are less valid now

[outer tusk]

Yeah, that's very illogical to think like that about any genera totally not me hating on Nanqusaurus

[last adder]

Why is the name so terrible in your opinion, and what would you rather call it?

[stable sun]

The name is good

[runic heart]

I actually quite like nanuqsaurus, despite the fact that there is almost no public material.

[tough parcel]

I think Venator's confused with the topic of conversation since they mention GSP

GSP's recent NanoT paper sucks

[runic heart]

Crouched vs correct posture; this accurate for all theropods?

I mean, I guess I can’t imagine a reason they’d walk crouched.

[outer tusk]

you can't imagine why they would walk crouched mhmm hunting is an option

[tough parcel]

As a standard locomotion strategy, it’d be best to walk like that

While not a 1-1 analogy, imagine the strain on your legs when you go about half-crouched

[outer tusk]

Hey Falcon did you watch Julian's (Sirblameson) stream, it really good

[runic heart]

Blame is pretty awesome. Cant wait to see him start his own projects, whenever that may happen.

[outer tusk]

I mean he has done his own projects before on roblox and has worked with paleoark currently but yeah would love to see more non-roblox related content

https://www.youtube.com/live/qgrVGRJqf34?si=cMGdWTNkIDeFaGpz

[runic heart]

Roblox or not, he’s really good at what he does and I can’t wait to see him continue.

[tacit pine]

Yikes dinosaur simulator 😬

[charred hearth]

whats wrong with dinosaur simulator

[balmy oyster]

It’s boring but that’s about it

[charred hearth]

btw, how accurate is their livyatan?

[balmy oyster]

As accurate as any livyatin can get

[hallow spear]

Not exactly, it’s too elongate as it’s based on an older reference

[runic heart]

Yeah it’s not great, but Blame’s work for the game is really cool.

[outer tusk]

Stego get back to making stats unc

OMG I FOUND PEAK

[charred hearth]

is The modded livy good?

[tacit pine]

Its not a good game and has many issues

[full lagoon]

That's true in several regards, but I'm still up to see it evolve

[tacit pine]

The work put into era of terror/prior extinction and pi games are ALOT more admirable and genuinely better games (not saying blames work is bad, its good for what he does ig)

[full lagoon]

Apparently big changes are coming to it in the future

[full lagoon]

Blame is one of the few DS developers that actually seems to have a passion for the things he models

[tough parcel]

EoT/PE are listed as good games

I think this tells us a lot more about how we should weigh their opinion

However, don't believe I'm defending DS, it sucks and it's like CoS but worse in various ways, just don't say PE/EoT are good

[tacit pine]

Yeah

[outer tusk]

look ONLY EOT orginal and legacy and PE retro are the good ones

[tacit pine]

I said there good/better as a comparison to DS. No roblox game is that good on its own

[full lagoon]

And yeah I wouldn't say any of those are particularly good either

[tough parcel]

The problem is they all are bad in various ways

They're all trying to be The Isle/PoT without understanding what the problems or strengths are with the genre and instead make up problems to compensate for such

[outer tusk]

eh

[tough parcel]

Anyways, paleontology before the moderators decide we're illegal

[outer tusk]

don't worry I got my papers

[lavish frigate]

My dumb ah brain read this as “Roblox dinosaur dating simulator”

[charred hearth]

whats the more accurate depiction of livy?

[outer tusk]

DS by a good margin for sure

oh yeah I was gonan ask but is the Kallamedu formation close to the Lameta formation?

[charred hearth]

really? dinosaur simulator over Arazoa?

[charred hearth]

too me it looks like the 1st image is better but maybe im blind

[compact leaf]

if we could just roll PoT the isle and BoB into one game we’d be good, but I think if the perfect dinosaur survival game comes out reality collapses

[tough parcel]

Honestly real af

[calm parrot]

honestly would it have a map or not , have climbing? have mutations? have a skill tree?? HAVE QUESTS??????

[runic heart]

I have yet to see some fun prehistoric creature shenanigans game where you just mess around, go on adventures, fight bosses and stuff like that.

[outer tusk]

I know this is A.I but it's just sad this is meant to be "education" yet it's the complete opposite

[full lagoon]

That's terrible bruh

[red quiver]

ai in paleoart spaces bothers me so much. there’s none of the meticulous care, the careful attention to detail and devotion to accuracy that you see in human-made art. it’s such a shame

[outer tusk]

Especially when you can see how much they take from ACTUAL paleoart 😭

[full lagoon]

Unfortunately it's getting harder to distinguish, at least from a glance

[red quiver]

exactly!! they steal from the effort of true artists

[outer tusk]

For me it's pretty EASY especially when animated

And off just very obvious visual things

[red quiver]

yeah animation is pretty easy to distinguish. the ai always makes everything move in this weird slow-motion style that is pretty obvious to me at least

[full lagoon]

Animated is definitely easier yeah, but at a glance it can be difficult. Luckily this dinosaur has obvious proportional issues.

[snow python]

Is Gojirasaurus valid?

[stable sun]

Who knows

[ancient crystal]

No, I very much hate the name "Nanotyrannus"

I think it's uninspired and bland, if not entirely misrepresentative of an animal the size of a polar bear.

[tough parcel]

Oh ok cause GSP had a thing where he renamed N. lathaeus to some stupid long name

[undone rapids]

Gilmorelarsontyrannus lathaeus

[full lagoon]

Bruh

[outer tusk]

Yk made GSP should just be in a retirement house

[ancient crystal]

Which I mentioned because, for all my misgiving over the current genus name, GSP demonstrates that it can be much worse

[red quiver]

who is GSP? is he like another david peters case?

[ancient crystal]

Worse in every metric

[outer tusk]

It's just so ass bruh 😭

[tough parcel]

LMAO honestly real 😭

[red quiver]

oh dear 💔

[charred hearth]

why does no bother to study and examine mammenchisaurus?

[ancient crystal]

"Broke the internet" = illiterate people misread the name of a country and made a racist inside joke that could hardly be classified as a meme

[outer tusk]

Famous paleoartist and the discover of many multiple dinosaur genera from the 90s unlike Peters but weirdly enough as time went on he just gotten worse

[red quiver]

it’s so weird when they just randomly go insane over time 😭 like what happened here

[outer tusk]

Like the Linkin Park song, Numb

[ancient crystal]

The major difference is that Peters isn't and has never been relevent to achademia, whereas GSP is and abuses that position to peddal his absurd brand of taxonomy

[red quiver]

that’s just disturbing

mis/disinformation spreads so easily. idk why people are so prone to pseudoscience

[outer tusk]

Because power when used incorrectly will = bad comedy

[calm parrot]

i hate the ai paleontologist wannabes

[ancient crystal]

A trend that seems increasingly common in paleontology

Very lovecraftian if you think about it. A group of niche scholars become obsessed with the remains of giant archaic beasts, one by one slowly going mad as they delve further into the unknowable past.

[red quiver]

honestly sounds like a sick movie/book. little less appealing in real life though

also has anyone else noticed that when peters does scaling he uses obama as a height reference??😭 for some reason

[sudden wind]

DS Livy has some soft tissues issues that are clearly marked because the person who did it has mostly worked on reptiles and not cetaceans.

The gum tissues, the sunken eye, the tail and forelim musculature, the caudal fin thickness

[charred hearth]

maybe its because im not a large like, i guess whale knower? but i cant notice what your talking about and its bugging me because i wanna be able to notice it too

[charred hearth]

would it be alright it you could show me a visual comparison?

[stable sun]

It's not large compared to other Tyrannosaurs though

[ancient crystal]

I would argue it still isn't small enough to be "nano"

[undone rapids]

Minityrannus

[charred hearth]

what would you rename nano too?

[undone rapids]

Though tbh, nanotyrannus is around 9 times smaller than Tyrannosaurus rex, so it fits.
If one assumes nano is around 1000 kg and rex is 9000 kg, give or take

[charred hearth]

so nano is 6 or 7 times smaller then rex?

[jagged trellis]

do not

[balmy oyster]

Great meme reset

[zealous ravine]

So turns out a lot of alvarezsaurs had spikes on their hands, cause they weren’t weird enough. This is from the new species Manipulonyx but at least Mononykus and most parvicursorines likely also had it

[scenic solar]

Do you guys think they'll find any other large theropods in Australia? because I personally think they will

[stable sun]

i mean obviously

[scenic solar]

I was meaning like in the next year

[sudden wind]

Oral tissues in cetaceans aren't the same as in reptiles: they still have mammalian like gum and lips. Sperm whales may be even weirded as they've lost lower lips and gum, so the lower jaw just incases into the upper lip.
The teeth are also very much not robust enough: Livyatan had the largest teeth of all known animals. They also were super robust and thick. The teeth orientation is also not very good as toothed whales have their front teeth projecting forward.

For the tail, the musculature is way too thick and so needless: cetaceans do vertical body undulation and so have very well developed upper and lower muscles as they are thunniform swimmers. Their caudal keel is is a 90° angle compared to fish which have horizontal body undulation. Cetaceans also have still quite developed shoulders as this is the only thing they can move in their arms.

[charred hearth]

wow!

[charred hearth]

im gonna assume aroza livy has none of these issue's?

[ashen wedge]

So what did I miss?

[outer tusk]

nothing

[charred hearth]

tarbosaurus had to go to rehab :/

[sudden wind]

It has those issues

[charred hearth]

oh.

[scenic solar]

Guh

[hardy sentinel]

@grok summarize please

[charred hearth]

how accurate is the size of prehestoric kingdoms titanaboa?

[scenic solar]

Dinobaur

[runic heart]

The beauty of titanoboa is that it’s hard to mess up, just make a giant boa with anaconda-like patterning.

[outer tusk]

regarding size the animal is estimated about ~12-14 meters long

[runic heart]

Vasuki is longer, yes? With titanoboa weighing more?

[warped peak]

Probably but theres nothing super concrete with either

[outer tusk]

^

[runic heart]

I mean titanoboa was aquatic, based on teeth for eating fish and a probable high weight.

[bright veldt]

Probably entirely aquatic given it gave birth to live young and studies on modern anacondas suggest that they're reaching the limits for how heavy a snake can be on land.

[charred hearth]

how do we know if they gave live birth?

[bright veldt]

It's a boa. That's what all boas do.

[charred hearth]

oh they do? i didnt know that

[fluid inlet]

Yes vasuki would be longer boa little heavier

[runic heart]

If anaconda’s are pushing the limit, then how could vasuki live on land?

[bright veldt]

maybe it didn't

[jagged trellis]

wheelchair

[runic heart]

@fluid inlet what…

[fluid inlet]

?

[runic heart]

What’s with the reaction? Cant you just explain why the question is stupid?

[fluid inlet]

I didn’t mean to laugh for some reason when u click a comment it gives a reaction now

[runic heart]

Ah

[sturdy oasis]

it is almost christmas yay

[runic heart]

Based on reality, how would leedsichthys play in PoT? I can’t imagine it’d be extremely slow, cause they haven’t added any large sauropods for the same reason that they’d be boring.

[charred hearth]

the reason they havent added large sauropods is due to size

[runic heart]

Well.. yeah I guess. They’d also be kinda boring cause they slow. I don’t dare touch the modded argent…

[runic heart]

I’m wondering if Leeds will be able to grab and bite stuff with its huge mouth.

[red quiver]

anyone else think zuniceratops has a weird tail? whats up with that

[balmy oyster]

Kind of just a thing neoceratopsians had going on

[red quiver]

that’s so funny 😭 their torsos were so short

[ashen wedge]

Question: Where is the original Ceratops?

[little mauve]

There's a leptoceratops specimen with 2 individuals piled on top of each other, one has a noticeabley higher and taller tail than the other. May be sexual dimorphism

CMN 8888 and CMN 8887

[hallow spear]

It’s also to note that a correct tail posture would make the “bump” much less visible

and @little mauve that’s because the tail of the one closest to us is not fully flat, it’s at an angle where as the one above it flattens quite soon and is disarticulated from the sacrum

[runic heart]

Would correct tail posture be hanging lower?

[hallow spear]

Yes, curved downwards

Something similar to this

[tough parcel]

Are you sure

[calm agate]

Unfortunately yes, Proto's verts just kind of fit together like that iirc

[hallow spear]

Yes, I’ll try find the paper, also you literally depicted art of this when the paper came out falcon 💔

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263677535_Structural_features_of_neural_spines_of_the_caudal_vertebrae_of_protoceratopoids_Ornithischia_Neoceratopsia

[winter marsh]

I would like to unsee this please

[hallow spear]

Nuh uh

[warped peak]

thanks I hate it

[hallow spear]

Yw I love spreading this amazing news

[winter marsh]

I want to immediately coat my eyes in bleach. Protobendatops cannot be real

[compact leaf]

this is a beast that scampers and I don’t like that

[hallow spear]

Proto is so odd because it has freakishly long hind legs, a weird tail and a freakishly short torso

[winter marsh]

I cant tell if its real or not because paleontology brings up so much bs you cant tell what is real or not

[jagged trellis]

wait this went through fully
it looks like its evolving to wear man diapers with that hunch bro

[hallow spear]

A bunch of ornithischians have something similar albeit not to the entirely same degree

[winter marsh]

downwards bendy tail ankylosaurus

[hallow spear]

Namely some Iguanodonts like Tenonto, Neoornithschians like Campto iirc

[jagged trellis]

i'm aware of the slight angling down
but man diapers in the workplace down
huh

[thorn grove]

:(

[hallow spear]

Does this make you sad

[thorn grove]

idk it's just weird looking lol

[runic heart]

It’s weird, cause this means some old Jurassic world toys got it right.

[charred hearth]

am i the only one who likes it

[outer tusk]

I love this guy

[light osprey]

No Exoparia?

[tough parcel]

I know, I just forget what the discussion was so I wanted to force you to give a source

[fluid inlet]

Orcas running from real apexes https://youtube.com/shorts/iIeSxfj3jrI?si=bp9AqKVX2NbtxNJU

[charred hearth]

orca's running so they dont get jumped by over 100 pilot whales

[full lagoon]

Looks a lot more natural than I expected. Honestly makes a lot of sense given the unique tail shape of those dinosaurs.

[charred hearth]

koreanceratops being semi aquatic gets spat on when its already dead

[wind prairie]

that's how they held their tails???

[runic heart]

Minus the tail fluke shape, is the thicker tylo species what a similarly accurate mosasaurus hoffmanni would look like?

[outer tusk]

uhm the default would be fine for mosasaurus as well minus of the tylosaurus parts

[tough parcel]

The Acrocanthus

[sudden wind]

I think the kansasensis would be better as for the body. Head is better with the big one tho

[compact leaf]

this looks sort of normal until you look at it’s actual torso

[bright veldt]

Jesus Christ that spine.

[balmy oyster]

Ironically more normal than making it completely vertical with no bend

[stiff osprey]

completely vertical 😰

[compact leaf]

how heavy is fran?

[tough parcel]

Disgusting

[runic heart]

Is mosasaurus really that skinny?

[stiff osprey]

i haven't done a GDI but presumably 6-7 tonnes

[outer tusk]

well "skinny" if you look back on Incin's mosasaurus multview

[runic heart]

So it’s all based on skeletal interpretation?

[lavish frigate]

The Acrocanthosaurus she tells you not to worry about

[hallow spear]

Wow he looks old

[charred hearth]

why is the image so low quality

[outer tusk]

well it's actually just based on new infomation that Tosha used that the ribs would now be sweep back rather than be something akin to most archosaurs

[outer tusk]

hey Random I was wondering did I cscale these 2 right since I wanted to see where did your edit of Franoys' acro would comapred to yours

[queen oar]

Carnivores-looking ass

[stiff osprey]

looks about right

[runic heart]

Well, they are squamates after all. So how much thinner would they have been compared to say the php version.

[outer tusk]

all of them besides some derived examples have the sweep back ribs, idk how much thinner but if you look at Scott Hartmann reconstruction then at Tosha that's how much it'll change. mainly due to the sternal ribs not being in perspective like Incin or PHP mosasaurus

[runic heart]

It’s weird cause the skeletal used for the php one had swept ribs, but they still puffed up the chest.

[outer tusk]

They are?

[waxen raptor]

Why is ts guy ginormous

[tough parcel]

Ate his veggies 💔

[waxen raptor]

If you laugh to get sent to the shadow realm

[runic heart]

Oh never mind

[worn jasper]

Lingula is no longer an eternal Cambrian-era perfect organism 😔

[fossil ingot]

Comically Tall Back

[compact leaf]

Manipulonyx’s extremely messed up hands from Atuchin

[ancient crystal]

Well he was born the same year the first godzilla film released so I would hope he'd look old

[wind prairie]

alvarezsaur hands are so gross now lol

[lavish frigate]

This causes nausea

I hate it so much

[charred hearth]

does anyone have a answer?

[hardy sentinel]

No

The light may have been bright but there's a difference between a thin flap of skin that doesn't block out bright light and tons of flesh

[zealous ravine]

Random forgot part of the lacrimal and uploaded a fixed version. Also I really hate that postorbital, it looks so cursed)

[runic heart]

He’s gonna get a T-shirt and a mug that say “welcome back!” Or somethin

[tough parcel]

No way

[lavish frigate]

Ain’t no way Saint Nick is putting that evil creature on the nice list

[zealous ravine]

Nano is the opposite of evil, its the best tyrannosaur

[lavish frigate]

Few statements ever uttered by mankind have been more morally abhorrent than this

[ashen wedge]

Wait does this imply that Santa visited Dinosaurs on prehistoric Christmas

[burnt hare]

I detect heresy.

[quasi path]

Bro was neglected for years as its own species, he deserves to be in the nice list

[zealous ravine]

Mhm, we mistreated him for too long, its high time he had his reward

[charred hearth]

is nano the most mistreated prehestoric animal?

[ashen wedge]

No

We won’t know that answer, cause we only know that we mistreated it cause we couldn’t understand, but I guess if you wanna make the point solely on humans, than yes…. But then again we also do mistreat sharks, crocodiles, and Humans (as they are all technically prehistoric creatures)

[charred hearth]

uhm...

[mighty willow]

Nano is the goat

[mighty willow]

True
Like it's been way too long
We've just been considering every small tyrannosaur from hell creek to be a trex

[true juniper]

Why do I hear that allosaurus went some 50 or 40 km/h but it doesn't seem that cursorial (to me)

[halcyon cobalt]

why doesn’t it seem that cursorial to you

[true juniper]

It doesnt seem to have legs that are notably long and it doesn't have an arctometatarsalian condition in it's metatarsals

[balmy oyster]

acro really be living up to its name now

somehow this ebay figurine predicted this.....

[green helm]

how big is suchomimus

[calm parrot]

technically it would be a spinosaurus without the fin on its back and smaller without looking too same if a toddler imagined it. but suchomimus is around 31-36 feet (9.5-10m long) and standing 12 feet tall at the hips (3.6 meters)

[green helm]

the weight is 4 tons right?

[calm parrot]

2.5 to 5 tons

[still prairie]

We used the word Deinocherius on the wrong animal good god

[brave nova]

Abit above 5t and about 12m long

[ashen wedge]

Wasn’t the holotype still growing?

[brave nova]

It wasn’t fully grown yes but there’s no guarantee it would’ve grown much more if at all

[ashen wedge]

I think it could have maybe grown to being in the low 6 ton range

[brave nova]

The scan is scaled to its adult size already. https://www.morphosource.org/concern/media/000486547

[granite thicket]

Btw ik that the dude who made this made spino as well
What weight estimate did je get for it?

[brave nova]

The guy who made this gdi didn’t make 1 for spino. Some have been done for spino tho.
The Neotype is 3-4t
Randomdinos NHMUK is 8.5t
Dan Folkes MNSN is 9.3t

[opaque kayak]

He did but he misscaled it https://x.com/SomniosusW/status/1746233331816005855/photo/1

Somniosus insomnus💤 (@SomniosusW)

Based on @Randomdinos01 's Spinosaurus cf. aegyptiacus skeletal reconstruction, quick modeled and analysed the volume. MSNM V 4047 is about 9000+ kg (NSG ≈ 0.97) in body mass.
Ah... Spinosaurus aegyptiacus complex...

X · Jan 13, 2024, 6:10 PM

[brave nova]

Ah never seen his one

[granite thicket]

This one
Dunno how accurate it is

[brave nova]

This fella is the most up to date 1

[granite thicket]

Yeah ik random and dan's skeletals are the most up to date one
(Until ibrahim releases his paper)

[brave nova]

Ibrahim’s working on a spino paper? First I heard of it

[granite thicket]

Yeah he's cooking one up atm
No one knows when it comes out tho

[brave nova]

Only knew of serenos on scrimitar. Well let’s hope he’s been hiding aegyptiacus material and reveals it

[runic rover]

It is definitively.

[plush fossil]

Would anyone know what specific species these would be from (if it's possible to tell)? I got them for Christmas but it doesn't tell me anything about what they could've been from apart from the location and the dates

[outer tusk]

Oh yeah this company makes some good mini figurines

[ancient crystal]

I wouldn't say being wrong about its validity is really mistreatment.

[runic rover]

Explain to me please, I really really want to know.

[coral forge]

well considering people got death threats for considering it to be valid, its safe to say it was hated a lot for no real reason

[runic rover]

A lot of people who were on the "wrong team" keep on saying this, but people were really rude about it.

Like you can look at "Mattel Nanotyrannus video" and look at all comments before 3 months ago and see everyone is just clowning Mattel for picking such a controversial dinosaur that "clearly is not its own thing".

This is all while Carr refused to even study it and kepth pushing his entire ideas in such an aggressive way while he himself did not have any clue of what he was doing.

I think the problem isn't even the paleontology or the science, I think it is generally how people tend to weaponize "being right", like some years ago when you could see a lot of people always overreacting of "unfeathered rex", someone "famous in the paleoart" even went a long way saying that unfeathered rex has the same value of "blackface".

Basically, if you're right about something paleontological, be humble about it, don't do the "🤓☝️uhm actually!" Just to prove you know better, educate and don't forget that every opinion in time can be wrong.

[outer tusk]

What Michael Jackon says? "It's just human nature"

[outer tusk]

OKAY WHO THE HELL EVEN CAME UP WITH THAT LAST ONE 😭 comparing unfeathered rex to blackface HAS...no... MUST be ragebait

[ancient crystal]

Right, but all that just feels to me like crappy human nature and the sort of thing that happens with any controversial subject in paleontology.

A mistreated animal in paleontology to me would be an animal that's deliberately misrepresented in media. Something like scavenger rex, or fodder herbivores for example.

[runic rover]

Thomas Carr refusing to check on dueling dinosaur seems pretty deliberate to me

[granite thicket]

Nano wasnt exactly mistreated I think
Those things are ought to happen when nano was considered juvie rex for over a decade
Just think of how bronto was treated and you'll see how it isnt different

[ancient crystal]

I just tried to edit my message to include that I do think that academia can play a role in mistreatment but then I undid the changes

Basically all I said is that Carr's behavior is mistreatment and I mentioned GSP's conduct and new proposed genus names

[stiff osprey]

Refusing to use privately owned specimens is not an uncommon practice or a bad one. Who knows what alterations private owners will make to fossils to increase resale value?

That said there was a lot of harassment towards pro-Nano people in both professional and casual spheres

[granite thicket]

Some smart people are stubborn since theyre smart tbf

[prisma hawk]

Which is crazy. Shouldn’t your default assumption be that there was more than one large or medium-sized predator in the Hell Creek? Considering, you know, like every other ecosystem

[stable sun]

Did Carr believe in Dakotaraptor?

[prisma hawk]

Good question, I’m not sure.

I think there was both a medium-sized tyrannosaur and a large dromeosaur, whether you call it Archeroraptor or Dakotaraptor doesn’t matter, in the HC

[fossil ingot]

Tmk somnuosus Sucho has the issue is likely been miscaled
Just go with Hartman's/Sereno's or Dan's Sucho

[fossil ingot]

Dan's MNSN been 9.3t feels so goofy, Before with previous GDI was about 7.8-8t and similar to Random's in Weight
I doubt ONLY adding some Extra Tail Caudals will make it Jump to 9.3t
But who knows

[tough parcel]

Your default assumption should be nothing because that's not how science works

[brave nova]

Tbh idk how the 7.7t came from cause dans is quite a decent bit bigger in almost every way

[fossil ingot]

The only thing that changed was the Tail Length
I
You are better off Comparing the Original Unedited Dan's Skeletal with Random's in order to see how much they actually compare next to eachother
Cauae I doubt a .5m longer Tail adds thar Much

[prisma hawk]

Yeah disagree. The fact that ecosystems generally have more than one large or medium-sized predator is important to consider.

[tough parcel]

So you conjure up a make-believe animal with no evidence for its existence based on modern ecosystems that are barely applicable to prehistoric ones?

[prisma hawk]

Not sure if you’re talking about Dakotaraptor or Nanotyrannus. But both modern ecosystems and Mesozoic ecosystems all seem to have more than one large predator in them. Often multiple. HC wouldve been the exception

[fossil ingot]

Theres also the Fact that Dan's MSNM is scaled different than how Random scaled his

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, that's the issue. You can infer that animals unknown to paleontologists existed in just about every prehistoric ecosystem.

But that's just an inference. You should only really make claims about those ecosystems based on what specimens and species are known.

[tough parcel]

I'm speaking from the perspective of before NanoT's validation or Draptor's discovery which is when Carr originates from

What Venator said too

[iron halo]

arguing about how we should have studied nano earlier might genuinely be worse than when we argued whether or not nano was valid🥀

[prisma hawk]

Right but when someone finds a specimen that comports with the inference, people shouldn’t jump down the throat of someone who says “hey this must be a new species of medium sized Tyrannosaur”.

[tough parcel]

You act as if there was no evidence given that suggested it may be a juvenile T. rex and everyone accepted it because it's small when that wasn't the truth at all

The problem laid in the fact ontogeny was poorly understood in dinosaurs especially because we were just discovering young dinosaurs at the time

[prisma hawk]

No I’m merely saying that the Nanotyrannus people were treated like fringe scientists and heretics when everyone should’ve realized their theory was probably correct

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Nano was so poorly studied that it been a Juvenile Rex wasn't THAT crazy

Ofc
We Finally got Bloody Mary to help us understand Nano ALOT better

[prisma hawk]

No it’s not crazy to suggest that. But the juvie T Rex people were the ones acting like the Nanotyrannus people were crazy

[iron halo]

this feels like a political debate lowkenuinely

[fossil ingot]

I mean
I wouldn't exaggerate like that, but atleast at THAT current Time it did seem crazy cause the Family was consistantly showing Juvenile and Younger Individuals to be Smaller, Slimmer and Slightly proportionally different from there parents(Looks at Tarbo)
And again, Nano was so poorly studied things just matched and indicated that
Now with Bloody Mary that Changed ofc

[tough parcel]

This whole conversation is a wonderful example of hindsight bias

[fossil ingot]

This is not even the Scientists Fault
Its more so Nano was so poorly Studied it didn't help its Situation

Thx good the Museum managed to get Bloody Mary in their Hands to Study it better
Otherwise things wouldn't had really change that much

[outer tusk]

CHAT NO FEAR, CRISTATUSAURUS WILL SAVE THE DAY

[prisma hawk]

Perhaps. But this argument ignores all the paleontologists who were right about Nanotyrannus since the 90s. Even if recent years people were saying all the same thing the 2025 paper did, just minus referencing the dueling dinos specimen

[fossil ingot]

Is not crazy for ppl to go towards smth that seems more likely and Consistant with the Family than base it off Smth like Nano was the only possibly mid sized theropod, there was also ppl thought Juveniles could fill a Slightly different Niche than Adults.

It didn't sounded that Crazy and due to Nano's Poor Studies, it just seemed the better option and the more likely until proper specimens appeared

[outer tusk]

I love how us humans will kill each other over dead rocks

[fossil ingot]

The Suchomimus Killer....

[prisma hawk]

When paleontology gets it wrong it’s also important to look back and see what was missed. And to defend the people who got it wrong and say no they did nothing wrong, that’s not super helpful imo

[iron halo]

i don’t get the whole “i was right you were wrong” standpoint people always try to have over a subject that will literally always change

[outer tusk]

literally an it be 2 grown ass adults like GROW THE HELL UP 😭

[prisma hawk]

It’s not really about who was right or wrong, it’s about what arguments were right and what were wrong

[fossil ingot]

I mean
They really did nothing wrong
Nano was so poor Studied it didn't even help the people on its Favor Lol
This is Paleontology
Ppl get wrong most of the time until proper Studies or Specimens appear

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, its very easy to point out all the obvious differences between nano and rex now

But a year ago, all those differences might as well have not existed for how poorly nano was researched

[tough parcel]

Can you provide these right arguments from decades ago that were listed in the Napoli paper?

[fossil ingot]

Exactly
This is not even the Paleontologists Fault
Just "Nano's Fault" for been Cheeks until Bloody Mary came to save us

[outer tusk]

chat WHAT IF there was a gaint anapsid like animal that was secretly the new largest predator in the Hell Creek formation /srs

[fossil ingot]

[outer tusk]

Look I get it's more complicated than that but my least favortie part about this community ngl is just the numerous pointless long,tediosu argument that do start up either due to lack of info or etc I know every sane person hates it but it's my personal paleo pet peeves

[iron halo]

good time to talk about bahariasaurus i think

[fossil ingot]

The Cooler Rex Family Member

[outer tusk]

dude ngl I remember doing a lineart of this guy and I still think it's one of my favorite works

[snow terrace]

the fact i recognize this...

[ancient crystal]

The last I'll say about Nano is that in science there's a burden of proof set on anyone making claims that go against the established hypothesis. In this situation the established hypothesis was that Nanotyrannus represented a juvenile Tyrannosaurus.

Reasoning that surely there must have been other predators in Hell Creek aside from Tyrannosaurus, no matter how reasonable a claim, is not enough evidence to overcome that burden of proof.

[outer tusk]

waiting for Gigaspinus to be described

[topaz shell]

VINERA?? (Specifically the DS version)

[outer tusk]

Omniphaga pulsatrix being it's spec evo name meaning "Eater of its strikes"

[prisma hawk]

That’s why it’s always important to think about who has the burden of proof in any argument

[prisma hawk]

Not to belabor the argument, but I was also one of the ppl who thought Nanotyrannus was clearly a juvenile Rex. But I’m watching this video from May 2024 from Nick Longrich, an apparently ppl like to dunk on him, but he was right here, and he’s literally saying everything the Napoli paper was saying. So obviously some people were able to figure it out pre-Bloody Mary

[runic rover]

Point being, they were always there. those differences, and nobody cared because you'd lose credibility for "trying to be on the wrong side", there was a literal social gatekeeping in even insinuating that the study was wrong, because seriously "X has no juvenile and Y has no adults, must be the same creature" without even taking a look at the fossil is clearly not how science works either.

[tough parcel]

This is because he stole research, it's well-known Longrich's 2024 paper was poached science or weak arguments that barely elaborated on anything new

Longrich in general is a horrible person

[outer tusk]

ew Longrich

[compact leaf]

they were always there but nobody had access to to or was able to publish on them

[prisma hawk]

Oh ok well that’s not good. But Bakker was also right in 1988, so like, obviously some people were able to figure it out

[outer tusk]

btw besides bs spec evo is this even remotely possible for a pterosaur to have

[runic rover]

yes they did. Carr was invited! but he would stubbornly refuse because they were privately owned, which is its own kind of weird talk

[stiff osprey]

while ignoring privately owned material is in no way weird, Jane was never privately owned to my knowledge

and neither was the holotype of Nano, which is the basis for that hyoid histology paper that came out a month or so after Zanno & Napoli. People just had never used that methodology on the specimen before as histology was usually done on limb and rib bones which Nano lacks

knowing that the Nano holotype is a mature animal would have killed any doubt towards it being rex pretty quick

[undone rapids]

Its nano holotype's fault for not preserving its legs when it died

[outer tusk]

idk why but I love this dude (btw what would the full name meaning of T. "vannus")

[runic rover]

Privately owned fossils are, in my opinion a necessary evil, because it is better to me that they found creatures nobody would ever think of seeing in their lives than nothing. with this in mind, i do think that there should be a law making even the most privately owned fossil public, like an obligation of making it open to everyone to study or obligation to make exibitions. besides, i think in EU we literally have rules about it. i'm unsure of it tho. i know it's a japanese mushroom take, i'm more of a mediator because privately owned fossils cost a lot to dig up and people almost went bankrupt with the dueling dinosaurs.

[bright veldt]

I find trying to insinuate this beyond basic paleomedia drama really something considering every person who works with dinosaurs insinuating this and going on a "I was already right" perade are either nutcases who just happened to be right or are buddy-buddy with private fossil investors who are making it a living hell for everyone else and are partly the reason for why nano has been such a pain in the first place due to the current lack of juvie rexes that they themselves own.

[stiff osprey]

I agree, it is unfortunate that fossils are often mishandled outside of public institutions but without private collectors much of what is in museums now would never have been found

(and it's not like museums can't mishandle them either lol)

[outer tusk]

I think to simpify this too like 4 words it's a "double edge sword" to a degree

[bright veldt]

Like I am saying this independently of what I personally think on the topic: if the private collectors won the Bloody Mary case, we would've never seen it again and nanotyrannus would still be dead.

[ancient crystal]

Well of course they were there. Just like there are a whole bunch of undiscovered species throughout even the best understood prehistoric environments.

But they hadn't been formally described, or if they were they remained poorly understood, and therefore didn't do much to prove Nano's validity before this most recent paper.

[runic rover]

there were forums already pointing out the fingers lenght ant teeth counts things more than 5+ years ago (it is how i learned of the whole ordeal of Thomas Carr refusing to study the dueling dinosaurs), and YEAH MAYBE PEOPLE WERE MOTIVATED BY "nano is my fav" Bias to "find the clue", but with them there was Larson and FREAKING BAKKER, the father of "feathered theropods" theory. they weren't exactly glomp shittos theirselves.

[outer tusk]

https://youtu.be/UUtM33xn64g?si=85FfppT0EWT4A56m chat I think I found the song that fits this convo

[full lagoon]

I look at this name and think TV

[bright veldt]

I mean there's a difference between a pair of respective individuals having their own opinions and this "I was alright right and was heavily discouraged from looking into further" narrative a lot of scumbags are using.

Napoli's paper I'd argue is just as significant for its clear-cut and decisive science as much as it making nanotyrannus valid. I have never seen another paper propose something to innately controversial but also have it as universally accepted as it is.

But to bad actors it's a pointing fingers game.

[ancient crystal]

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it Napoli & Zanno is the first legit formal paper to put all this together and make a real argument for Nanotyrannus.

Anything before amounts to, "just trust me bro."

[bright veldt]

It was a mix over the years, with the only "nanotyrannus is legit" paper in recent years before that being from also one of the worst paleontologists in recent memory.

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, that's why I said legit, seeing as Longrich is anything but

[runic rover]

You're literally narrating how Carr did with Nano.

[outer tusk]

Carr who?

[bright veldt]

It's not to say that the differences pointed out before didn't have merit or anything. They obviously did or suspicions about nano when the dueling dinosaurs were acquired wouldn't have surfaced if that wasn't the case. I'm just saying that the suggestion of there being a large-scale shunning of nanotyrannus-believers in the field is absolutely tone-deaf.

When most of the papers were either not well-made, lacked a larger picture, or referenced material that wasn't directly accessible, it's not a surprise nano was doubted for so long.

[ancient crystal]

I'd say there certainly may have been a poisoning of the well so to speak after the Longrich paper came out. With both sides of the debate perhaps being overly enthusiastic to prove their position

[magic jacinth]

I'm nowhere near being able to understand everything going on with Nano. But just a question if I may cause I have talked to you before about paleontology and you are quite knowledgeable! But from what i have read and seen about Nano, I dont understand how the extra teeth nano specimens had weren't the obvious give away it wasn't a T rex, from my understanding we dont know of theropods that lose overall number of tooth places/locations (from what I have read) why did so many researches assume that somehow young Rexs somehow lost tooth placing. Do we have evidence for that in any other creature? I dont get how that was just looked over.

[stable sun]

how are they necessary evil

[magic jacinth]

I believe the arm size thing sorta falls into this as well

[stable sun]

no, it was just assumed that T. rex lost teeth

we do actually have an example in the case of Limusaurus, however it doesn't actually lose alveoli. Regardless Carr just kinda assumed T. rex lost them unlike every theropod somehow.

[bright veldt]

It was something that would have certainly been unusual given no other species in fact doesn't really do that. There was some confusion, however, since there are actual Tyrannosaurus with different tooth counts, in hindsight seemingly due to pathology and/or preservation issues. Although it wasn't just the teeth either, since Napoli and co pointed out in the nano paper that it would also involve nano losing tooth sockets too, which just doesn't happen.

The arm thing is a Dueling Dinosaurs discovery. Before that we just didn't have nano arms.

[stable sun]

The arm thing wasn't known at the time.

[magic jacinth]

Hmm, im hardly one to take a stance due to my lack of education compared to someone with a degree but that seems sorta odd to assume

[tough parcel]

I think it should also be known that for a majority of Nano's existence, juvenile theropods (with known adults to compare to) didn't exist

[bright veldt]

That as well. Our understanding of trex ontogeny was kinda growing with theropod ontogeny in general.

[magic jacinth]

Ah ok so its just alot more nuanced then i thought. Appreciate that. Is this just pretty typical stuff that happens in new research or have some called Carr a bit quick handed when it came to this particular one.

[stable sun]

to be fair our undestanding of t rex ontogeny was growing in the wrong direction for a long time

[hardy sentinel]

Y'all what if baby Rex was just fat as hell like it's parents it's entire life

[bright veldt]

That's what I mean yes lol

[fossil ingot]

Who knows
We seemingly have some young Rexes so

[magic jacinth]

Im always so unsure in taking a stance in paleontology cause new research and the fact i know i dont know everything....but even I couldn't get over the tooth thing

[hardy sentinel]

So it seems baby Tyrannosaurus were herbivores (totally not the 50th teen rex herbivore joke)

[bright veldt]

I love this specimens just because of how it can show things are simultaneously very well preserved and very warped. The lower jaw is literally twisted in on itself and backwards.

[runic heart]

I play it by a sort of “head-canon”. I view every prehistoric creature a specific way until the understanding is changed.

[tough parcel]

Actually this is impossible because as you can see, the baby T. rex died upon plant consumption

[hardy sentinel]

Humans die upon air consumption

[magic jacinth]

Nothing wrong with that! I just wish i had more knowledge to take hard stances on things.

[hardy sentinel]

I like how during the good Nanotyrannus debate days people would dismiss the tooth positioning argument because Gorgosaurus or something

[magic jacinth]

Weren't they trying to say something like "gorgo loses many functional teeth and gains great tooth spacing so clearly nano can lose aveoli "

[hardy sentinel]

Sum like that

[magic jacinth]

Kinda wild tbh

[stiff osprey]

And they were correct to do so.

Until the juvenile gorgo got reclassified as daspletosaurus and killed that argument

[hardy sentinel]

Wait it was a Dasp all along ?

[stiff osprey]

Gorgo and dasp juveniles are apparently frequently confused

[magic jacinth]

Honestly but why, how does tooth spacing and functionality somehow relate to losing aveoli themselves. Isnt that a stretch to assume?

[hardy sentinel]

Who knew two gregarious similar sized tyrannosaurs that lived in the same area at the same time would be confused for each other when young

[stiff osprey]

The point is that (at the time) Gorgosaurus also lost alveoli as it grew, it didn't just change spacing

[magic jacinth]

Oh, ok, So at the time they thought gorgo lost aveoli or we still know/think that gorgo lost them. Im currently of the knowledge that it doesn't lose aveoli just spacing and certain other toothy things

[stiff osprey]

It changes tooth shape (a little bit) and tooth spacing but doesn't change number of alveoli

Some individuals can be born with more or less teeth than others, but only 1-2 more or less (this is known for T.rex too)

[magic jacinth]

Gotcha ok. But back then we truly thought they did lose aveoli due to confusion in species?

[outer tusk]

OH THESE

[stiff osprey]

yup

[magic jacinth]

Thanks for clearing that up. That actually is a pretty solid reason lol its so crazy how a past idea or thought can look so blatantly wrong but was actually the only answer at the time that made sense

[undone rapids]

There's also limusaurus which loses all of its teeth as it grows up

[outer tusk]

so what happens in tyrannosaur be considered for other similar theropods or no (or even other animal genera)

[magic jacinth]

Oooh fancy guy, wonder if thats the only noasaurid that did

[undone rapids]

So far, its the only one we have evidence for. Noasaur skulls aren't the most common thingies

[magic jacinth]

The poor small boys always getting deleted in the fossil record

[stiff osprey]

The fact we only know this about Limusaurus because they were all idiots that fell into sauropod footprints and died

[runic heart]

Same, which is why I’m constantly asking questions around here.

[stiff osprey]

the smallest Megisto specimen being bigger than a kodiak bear is wild

[magic jacinth]

No way can only imagine how deep a sauropod foot print would be in soft mud. why am i laughing

[jagged trellis]

clearly it was the sauropods setting ambushes for a school for the blind of limus

[magic jacinth]

Saurpods were literally murking plant and micro life

[fossil ingot]

Mammals been showing they built different

[umbral socket]

Can anyone confirm for me that Maiasaura did have a crest?

[stiff osprey]

ehh, it did have a crest but it was very small and barely stuck out from the skull

[runic heart]

I don’t believe it did

[undone rapids]

The 2nd abelisauroid killed by a sauropod!!

[stiff osprey]

it has a little bump in front of the eye

[restive crag]

Raw pose and angle

[outer tusk]

Idk why but I thought that was a snake 😭

[stiff osprey]

Spectro wasn't killed by a sauropod it just had a skill issue

[undone rapids]

It was found under one, no? Clearly a last ditch effort to destroy the dangerous predator

[stiff osprey]

just in the area

i mean it was physically under the sauropod yes but there is no damage to the skeleton consistent with a sauropod falling on it

[magic jacinth]

wonder how detailed they can get with timelines in that instance. Sure we could probably figure out if a couple million years later a sauropod died over top of another dinos fossil / different strata.

But how do we know if say something died then 5-10-50-100 years later something died in the same spot basically. Would be in the exact same strata

[restive crag]

What if it’s so damaged that we think there’s no signs of damage bc it’s all so damaged

[magic jacinth]

How they unwarp fossils and know what's what and not just damage i will never know lol

[tough parcel]

They give it a kiss and ask kindly

[restive crag]

Dinosaur’s spirit informs them kindly

[magic jacinth]

Wholesome research methods

[stiff osprey]

most of the time we don't. which is why it's hard to make inferences like xyz dinosaur lived in packs/herds just because we found multiple of them in the same place

Unless the bodies are literally tangled in each other, then we can be sure they died in a single event (like many of the ghost ranch Coelophysis)

[outer tusk]

OH SO THAT'S WHY this art exist spoiler: mild gore

[bright veldt]

Jesus

[magic jacinth]

Yea its a tough one. Specially in mass dying events if they aren't like you said basically tangled up. Theres definitely alot of examples of "mass dying" that might just be a water hole that was around for hundreds of years and was toxic.

[outer tusk]

Random is this your proudest piece?

[warped peak]

Megesustherium

[bright veldt]

When there was initial speculation about Sue being found with a group but then a paleontologist clarified that Sue's big butt blocked the river and the nano and juvie rex corpses piled on her.

[stiff osprey]

No lmao my proudest piece is probably the Spino skeletal

[magic jacinth]

Does it count as a mass dying event even if it wasn't all at once but same location and likely small timescale

[tough parcel]

Let's all go look at Random's DA to admire his old pencil art! Yay!

[undone rapids]

Dragon skeletals wen?

[outer tusk]

FR LIKE DUDE I THINK I USED ONE OF HIS ART IN MY OLD DRAWINGS

[stiff osprey]

I drew a dragon skeletal on paper once that was pretty cool

idk where that went though

[tough parcel]

Big Dragon doesn't want you to know...

[outer tusk]

I think I did a lazyily replica of this drawing which again was my favorite personally

[undone rapids]

Monhun devs do have dragon skeletals in their concept books iirc

[magic jacinth]

Random bro made this?

[stiff osprey]

Fictional creature skeletals would go crazy you don't need to worry about being accurate because it doesn't exist

[restive crag]

Until I fact check you with fictional cartilage and articulation papers

[magic jacinth]

I am taking the albertosaur specimen comparison with me to the royal Tyrell and trying to find as many specimens as i can

[undone rapids]

Unfactchecks you with magic articulation, the bones are articulated by mana

[stiff osprey]

Accuracy wise it's nice and I still like the motion effects but there is way too much blood coming from the animals lol

Or like
Unspecified black liquid

[tough parcel]

Have you ever been kneed in the throat by a sauropod...?

[charred hearth]

merry paleo christmas

[stiff osprey]

No but I knew a guy

[outer tusk]

yeah I was actually there

[tough parcel]

Oh my apologies

[plush fossil]

It was me

[undone rapids]

I was gonna say its pretty cool that there's a santa dino, but its actually the grinch

[magic jacinth]

Why he so tail

[restive crag]

I just got corrected by the bot for saying glupchitto but spelled correctly