paleontology

[tough parcel]

I really really hope you're aware this is from Primeval: New World

It's the Albertosaurus

[mellow prism]

yeah, I don’t think we should be estimating anything down to the centimeter, but at least with theropods (sauropods and others are probably trickier), if the track is well-preserved (or they just not completely screwed up, and I haven't seen many like that) you can clearly see where the digits start and end, and that lets you figure out the length of the acropodium. That already gives you a decent basis for roughly estimating the animal’s size

[charred hearth]

🙋‍♂️ 👀 📖 👇 🗨️

[scenic flame]

didn't concavenator show it at least had more extensive padding than most people tend to give them?

[queen oar]

Yah

The GOAT Concavenator still getting Ws

[mellow prism]

it doesn't change anything in this context

[tough parcel]

It changes a bit if observed animal tracks have been known to increase in size as erosion and other deformation processes take their toll

So now you have increased padding from what we're used to using + deformation increasing the size

[charred hearth]

thoughts on dromeosaurs Mainstream media ability of mimicing voices?

[queen oar]

Yup.

[charred hearth]

i swear theres other examples of dromeosaurids mimicing voices

[tough parcel]

It's not an unpopular idea but never within "mainstream" media

[compact leaf]

a track can show the actual anatomy of the foot very well and still be subject to size deformation, I see it all the time in the field

[queen oar]

y u p .

[charred hearth]

choose your dromeosaurid ability

1 - pack hunting
2 - hyper intelligence
3 - voice mimicing
4 - hand signals

[tough parcel]

Shrikes do something similar but moreso that it's a siren call instead of mimickry, it's quite cool

[mellow prism]

But still, my point is about a rough estimate, and the fact that the toes were a bit more fleshy doesn’t change anything. And again, “erosion and deformation processes” are things you evaluate based on the specific tracks, not just in theory.
What I mean is that a slightly thicker toes in Concavenator won’t change the fact that if a track shows a 90 cm long acropodium, it definitely wasn’t made by a 5m animal. You don’t need to argue whether it was 11.78 or 12.47 meters long, but I don’t see anything controversial about saying that such a track clearly belonged to a huge animal, thats it

[queen oar]

I dislike all of these options. I despise all of them

[charred hearth]

even packing hunting?

[tough parcel]

I think you should take a look at what Cuttlefish is saying, very informative stuff from someone actually in modern wildlife fields

[mellow prism]

idk maybe you should read what I wrote again

[tough parcel]

a track can show the actual anatomy of the foot very well and still be subject to size deformation, I see it all the time in the field
This is directly contradictory to the idea that it's going to help you in any basic form

[queen oar]

Generally, I hate all of these because they've become pretty generic and almost stereotypical with Dromaeosaurs. It's almost like people don't know what else they can use to make Dromaeosaurs sound efficiently scary in the role of a Horror Monster.

[tough parcel]

I do enjoy that Cuttlefish has experience with this occurring in real life

Maybe you should talk with them more @mellow prism or with people in the field who have experience with how trackways are warped instead of relying on paleontology

[fluid inlet]

Late reply but I think so.

[tough parcel]

LMAOOOO, what a great response from Paleo

Also @arctic crane we have a caudal and a metatarsal (potentially)

The claw is likely to be a NanoT

[queen oar]

Should probably tell a Mod to access the Server's history

[charred hearth]

hm, how about

dromeosaurid dropping from a tree onto prey like a jaguar/lepoard?

[jagged trellis]

i can also confirm on even fresh tracks warping potential yeah, its not too rare either

[charred hearth]

can someone inform me about the difference between a jaguar and a lepoard

[queen oar]

If it was Deinonychus, yeah sure, why not?

[charred hearth]

would utah have the anatomy to climb tree's effectively?

[queen oar]

If being the size of a Polar Bear and being the most heavy dromaeosaur should indicate...

Probably not

[mellow prism]

of course, footprints can be larger than a real foot, and there are deformations, etc., but I haven't questioned that anywhere. You simply don't understand that you can't jump from these facts to conclusion that for each footprint you have a range of the potential size of the author from 30 cm to 30 meters. It doesn't work that way

[arctic crane]

That's not very much. Maybe nano really did kill off Dakotas chance. How sure are we that the caudal is a dromaeosaur could there be any doubts?

[marsh tapir]

Let us please remain polite and respectful while interacting on this server. Do not provoke or antagonize other users.

Refer to our #rules.

[fluid inlet]

Cook 🧑🏽‍🍳

[tough parcel]

Using them for size estimations at all is very unwise as now two people have corroborated that trackways can inflate notably due to deformation

Obviously a Velociraptor-sized animal won't turn into a T. rex-sized footprint but a mid-sized megaraptorid turning into a large megaraptorid? Probably more possible

[tough parcel]

I mean it's definitely not a tyrannosaur

I don't have any images on me but from my recollection, it's pretty dromaeosaur in shape

[charred hearth]

how did this whole arguement start?

[mellow prism]

you're a bit like a wall, but talking

[queen oar]

Pretty sure it was due to basically a " Breviparopus 2.0 "

[fluid inlet]

Anyways regardless those footprints are impressive and without a doubt are from a very impressive sauropod.

[arctic crane]

So there is still a chance of a large one there ok. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Are there any smaller ones in hell creek?

[compact leaf]

as a reference I was working in a wetland earlier this fall and I wear a size 13 boot in the field, in that same wetland 2 weeks later my boot print was still perfect (super dry fall here) but it looks like an 8 foot tall clown was running around out there

[fluid inlet]

@marsh tapir

[tough parcel]

I've noticed, I've reported them already luckily

[compact leaf]

yes you can tell the footprint came from a large animal, but trying to say anything beyond that is just not wise

[queen oar]

@marsh tapir please is it possible to access the server's history and see messages that PaleoFreak deleted? I think it could be found they've committed two offenses.

[tough parcel]

Oh my God, that's actually a hilarious story 😭 also really interesting that it upsized to such a degree

[fluid inlet]

He did say it’s silly to try to make accurate measurements off footprints . So I’m unsure what’s actually the debate ?

[tough parcel]

The debate is they're trying to get a measurement period

[marsh tapir]

This is a final warning to, please, follow the server #rules.

Failing to comply will generate a mute in this server.

If we're unable to remain polite and respectful while discussing this topic, we'd recommend moving to a different one altogether.

[compact leaf]

the argument is about exactly how far off it can be, I’m not super invested just throwing my hat in the ring in terms of why we don’t estimate that way in my field

[charred hearth]

how good are footprints at speed scaling?

[tough parcel]

I think a recent paper on modern birds showed they're actually not very reliable I'd have to ask around for it though because I can't remember any key terms that would help find it

[sharp jackal]

Tell em bro

[fluid inlet]

I just know for sure it’s a big boy that’s the safe bet , exact numbers would be silly without any material and just circumstances too.

[compact leaf]

it’s a whole can of worms honestly

[tough parcel]

Cuttlefish is the expert on track deformation, as I've said

I would suggest reading their arguments and properly understanding their anecdote rather than focusing on me

I have no clue, but I'm gonna take my leave because it's movie night with my girlfriends so adios, take care

[fluid inlet]

Nothing about this was wrong btw

[queen oar]

Huh, I swear I've heard the wind...

Anyways, @tough parcel a suggestion: what do you think of putting quills or filaments on the arms of your Gallimimus? I think they could be neat

[opaque kayak]

I think it's now a bit smaller then the largest argen and bruh

[fluid inlet]

Which is huge regardless even if the case!

[tough parcel]

I actually did consider it but I wanted to try out different ideas of integument than usual

I'm not aware of Galli containing quill knobs so I thought it was a good subject to try it out on

[queen oar]

Pretty sure Ornithomimus has it, so... Not impossible to extrapolate Gallimimus had it, right?

[tough parcel]

Hence why my Ornithomimus has wings

It's not unreasonable to apply it to Gallimimus but on the flip side, it also means that naked arms is very possible too

[queen oar]

Idk. There are some winged birds who do not necessarily have visible quill knobs on their ulna... But, it's fair.

Well, all Birds are winged... So what I said is stupid.

[tough parcel]

Nah I getcha, that's why I'm not saying it's conclusive proof

Just that I have wiggle room

All quill knobs have quills

But not all quills have quill knobs

Or smth

[queen oar]

And then there's Concavenator

[tough parcel]

Concavenator is rlly weird because soft tissue impressions but no indications of feathering

But then again, I'd assume scaly skin is a bit harder to decompose than feathers or quills

[queen oar]

I think it had feathers or something close to them in shape. Simply because Concavenator is a Aerodynamic Freak

[winter marsh]

what the heck happened up there

[queen oar]

Someone being rude to Falcon. Simply.

[tough parcel]

I really like the idea that Concavenator was just dedicated to the dance

Like Spinosaurus but better at functioning

[arctic crane]

It's interesting that we do have two carcharodontids with weird talk spines

[charred hearth]

Who had the better sail game, carchs or spinosaurids

[wicked mountain]

I made a nanotyrannus jack-o-lantern

[tough parcel]

Spinosaurus for the size

Carchs and the other spinosaurs for still being able to function

[queen oar]

Nah. For me Conca is like the true theropod Cheetah, I tend to think it had wings or wing-like structures to change it's aerodynamic profile on the run, so never loosing too much energy, and being able to keep up with prey items like Garudumimus

[tough parcel]

To be fair, when attempting to lean into speed, theropods tended to just...lose their arms (see: noasaurs and abelisaurs)

Or they were freaks like ornithomimisaurs and didn't care

[charred hearth]

i dont wanna sound dumb but how do arms and speed relate? like, aerodynamic?

[queen oar]

Not really, that is pretty short term speed, and those clades didn't seem to be able to develop wings. There's a study on the musculature of the hindlimbs of Skorpiovenator, which seems to show they didn't had as much the same configurations of conjunctive tissues as birds, which we see in Tetanureans a lot, but more configurations akin to Crocodiles. For Abelisaurs, this seems to imply they are more ambush and burst predators in general rather than long term sprinting.

For Noasaurs... I really don't know, but i also don't know of their current phylogenetics.

[fluid inlet]

did they do any updated nanotyrannus skeletals for the paper ?

[queen oar]

Hol' up let me grab the paper...

[tough parcel]

Noasaurs are within Abelisauria

As for the musculature, that's not exactly what I'm leading into

It's obviously not a rule of thumb but assumedly arm reduction is weight reduction and/or aerodynamics

[queen oar]

It is. Not disagreeing with that, but that might be more indicative that the animals weren't able to find other alternatives to change their aerodynamic profile.

I cited the musculature, because it's relevant, usually the configuration of there being mostly tendons in Bird's feet, in Tetanureans allows for many theropods to afford sprinting long distances or being able to conserve energy efficiently by the long term ( by stalking, for example ). If Abelisaurs differ in that matter, that tends to indicate that they must be doing something different.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B4WnxQJJdOz5lO_ZEMneDbfUxdtxLmF4/view?usp=drivesdk

[tough parcel]

If only we had more abelisaurs with feet!!! If only they weren't bad at preserving their lower legs!!!!!!!!

[queen oar]

Skorpiovenator descends from the heavens

[tough parcel]

I lost the plot sorry

As I said, I'm watching The Nun w/ my gfs so I'm very focus-divided 😭

Uhh I agree that abelisaurs weren't exactly sprinting after prey for a decent amount of time, I prefer the idea they were more like pitbulls where they'd burst out of the brush with insane speed, grab a prey item, and shake it to death like a ragdoll

[queen oar]

For me the analogy is more Bipedal Land Croc/Shark, but I agree on the same idea

[queen oar]

We have any studies on the myology of Ceratosaurus?

[tough parcel]

Any studies on Ceratosaurus period 💔

Tmk no

[queen oar]

LMFAO

[fluid inlet]

what would be considered the best non adult specimen of tyrannosaurus rex now ?

[wind prairie]

see I would agree but a leopard is so so much more flexible than a dromaeosaur would've been

[tough parcel]

Thank you A. Parrot ❤️

Also @fluid inlet most likely Bucky or Cupcake, though I can't recall where either of them are held

[marsh tapir]

@sharp jackal This is a final warning to not provoke or antagonize other users in this server. We appreciate your cooperation and understanding on this one.

[fluid inlet]

Is there any reconstructions of them I just want to see a good an example for a drawing I’m doing

[tough parcel]

These work?

[fluid inlet]

adolescent is better than nothing i guess , thanks

[tough parcel]

Yeaa unfortunately, there's no more small small rex specimens 🥀

[fluid inlet]

This artwork is great but T. rex Adol and nano look so alike , the really clear difference is the little crest bumps and the skin colors obviously

[arctic crane]

I like that nano bullying baby rexes is just what they do. Jurassic fight club really set the standard lol

[sharp jackal]

Common username? Sorry for any confusion

[wind prairie]

https://tetzoo.com/blog/2025/10/29/the-amazing-giant-black-fossa btw this kinda got buried by all the nano stuff but uhhh the giant fossa may still be alive

[full lagoon]

"Oh, it's alive today? Boring. Let's just take it for granted like everything else alive today." My personal opinion on how we would treat extinct creatures if they weren't extinct.

[wind prairie]

idk about you but if I woke up and read that I might go nuts

[ashen wedge]

It kinda makes sense for them to look alike

[queen oar]

Alternatively, young Tyrannosaurus could had the lacrimals too, depending if you do it more based on Raptorex or Tarbosaurus

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/HatchlingShort/status/1984005388409458809

Nightfall - A Pine Ridge Anthology (@HatchlingShort)

Welcome back to Pine Ridge.

NIGHTFALL is now streaming on YouTube!

WATCH NOW: https://t.co/yDaKlxXWwC

X · Oct 30, 2025, 9:12 PM

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I’m having a hard time lol

[ashen wedge]

Don’t worry, I believe in you

[plush fossil]

I love this bird so much

I love whatever that is

I wish for that to be real

[paper parcel]

DAYUM

[queen vortex]

I found this image of a theropod dinosaur sleeping, is this a nanuqsaurus??

[empty socket]

the lion dosen’t concern himself with the validity of nanotyrannus

[fierce quarry]

Hi guys, I read somewhere that the Humboldt Squid has a bite force of 6.000 PSI, is that true ?

[queen vortex]

What pet dinosaur would you have

[true juniper]

Buitreraptor

[queen vortex]

Mononykus

[true juniper]

Let him eat bugs

[neat notch]

Ubirajara

[queen vortex]

My favourite dinosaur is rhamphoryncus

Spinosaurus easily defeats Trex, Mosa and every kaiju in monster verse

[tough parcel]

This is funny to me

[queen vortex]

I always thought sucho is the size of majunga

[tough parcel]

Nope it's a very big animal

[fierce quarry]

And Majunga won against it in Chaos Theory

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/does-he-know-gif-17552966235424643644

[ashen wedge]

I would have a pet Parasaurolophus so that way it can eat the evil pollen producing plants around my house and save me from spring pollen allergies

[queen vortex]

Joke btw

[nimble yacht]

Source: BBC
https://search.app/P33xM

[ashen wedge]

No!!! What happened to the Para?!

[queen vortex]

Blame Colossal, not me

Imagine if utahraptor could dunk

[runic rover]

Nature has always a "filter" that keeps apex predators in check. makes sense. it's already very unstoppable the way it was.

[fossil ingot]

Cause Majunga in the series is bigger than this while CT Sucho is smaller than this Sucho

[green helm]

how much does stegosaurus weight at max

[lavish frigate]

I assumed so I was just goofin around lol

[full lagoon]

Already have two

[runic rover]

can i ask however HOW ON EARTH did something that isn't a Tyrannosauridae be for so long gaslighted into being a juvenile tyrannosaurus?

[tough parcel]

Yarp

[runic rover]

peak avatar btw

[tough parcel]

We love to see it

[queen oar]

Alamotyrannus

[ashen wedge]

They didn’t, it was Nanotyrannus

[stiff osprey]

juvenile derived tyrannosaurs look similar to basal tyrannosaurs + there were no juvenile rexes to compare them to

[ashen wedge]

Mhm

[queen oar]

I mean, yeah, those are factors, but it also doesn't help when some are coming out and stating that for the longest time, some people were really too serious against Nanotyrannus
https://fxtwitter.com/MiloGaillard3/status/1984597460564787290?t=NZIF-_Z2JTvK-c_lAu-nnA&s=19

Milo Gaillard (@MiloGaillard3)

Wow. I knew that the anti-Nano crowd became toxic, but this is just appalling.

**💬 4 🔁 22 ❤️ 101 👁️ 2.5K **

FxTwitter · Nov 1, 2025, 12:24 PM

[stiff osprey]

there was also the fact that most of the nanotyrannus proponents were fossil salesmen, so even if they turned out to be correct, not many people trust them

[runic rover]

Yeah but the way it looks now seems like neither Carr nor Busatte even took a look at any Nano skeletons and went all "yeah sure makes sense we will make sure every try to make Nano real results in ridiculisation", like how on earth do you miss the longer arms thing?

I remember when someone would say "Nano" they would be made fun of. How does one ever stand up and decides they can fix this is beyond my understanding.

[stiff osprey]

the arms being bigger can easily be explained as the arms on Tyrannosaurus are nearly vestigial structures - you wouldn't classify a whale as a new species because it has a bigger pelvis than another, and the documentation of rex arms was very poor in the first place

idk who came up with the idea that the arms "had to shrink" from nano to rex. We have ONE Nano arm, some individuals can just be born with bigger arms than others

And yes, I know nano is valid for other reasons besides the arms

[undone rapids]

All the good nano and juvi rex specimens being private means there's not much evidence to use

[tough parcel]

What if the Nanotyrannus evolved to beat T. rex in an arm wrestle?

[warped peak]

Squirrels have a bite of 20 000 PSI so probably

PSI is a measurement of pressure, not force

[charred hearth]

how accurate is the isles camarasaurus?

[runic heart]

Imagine looking over at your fellow juvi in a hunt, and not knowing it’s a 30 year old man that just ate your buddy.

[hazy basalt]

I've been reading Carpenters original paper on theropod forelimb biomechanics and this bit near the end interested me and I would like to know more about it because of what it says about the movement of Deinonychus' forelimbs, particularly its unique capability to pronate which seems to go against everything we say about Dromaeosaur hand articulation today despite most citing this paper as the original source against it.

"Deinonychus also shows one adaptation not seen in the
other theropods, the capacity of pronating the manus. However,
it does so, not by rotating the radius, but by movements
between the radiale and semilunate, and between the radius
and
radiale (text-fig. 14 C-F). This movement is a precursor to
the avian wrist movements described by VAZQUEZ (1992)."

So whats up with that?

[charred hearth]

is this facts

[runic heart]

Imagine how many other species we have grouped together incorrectly.

[dusty sandal]

I’m trying to help yall but the quests should give you the coins to get Dino’s and other stuff so like people can have a better gaming experience with the game -BEEFY

[runic heart]

Wrong chat bro

[dusty sandal]

Oh lol mb

[undone rapids]

Here's the Lameta formation in India.

(some of these might end up being the same animal, but we'll care about that when it happens)

[full lagoon]

I wouldn't doubt that certain dinosaurs actually had some form of dexterity in their hands, even if it is different from ours. To me this seems like more evidence against making raptor arms look like copy pasted bird wings.

[last adder]

Even though making them like that wasn't justified or realistic to begin with.

[rancid dove]

I don't know if it's accurate

[last adder]

The figure seems realistic besides the lack of some facial soft tissue like lips and exoparia

[runic heart]

It’s all sauropods and abelisaurs 💀

[full lagoon]

Not 100% sure based on the angle but the face might be a bit too slim on the end? the fossil's snout seems slightly more boxy to me.

[rancid dove]

The first one with the face dates from 2022, and the following year Dan Flokes published Sinraptor Hepigensis for 2023, so there have been quite a few changes

[hazy basalt]

So there is potential for all the reconstructions of Dromaeosaurs (or at least Deinonychus) showing avian style hand folding being inaccurate? Isn't that kinda huge 💀

[last adder]

Avian style hand folding was always implausible to my knowledge because of how Dromaeosaur wrists work

[queen oar]

oh no it's right, i think the Premaxilla wasn't preserved in this Sinraptor species? ( So, that cast is like, really really bad )

[rancid dove]

Can you show me a new reference in 2025?

[last adder]

The arm structures while similar, are still a lot different than birds, it seems that most people just overlooked that in reconstructions

[full lagoon]

I'm not the most well versed on that species tbh, I was mainly looking at the material provided

[runic rover]

Also I can't understand how did Carr's opinion get more relevant and accepted than legendary paleontologist Bakker on the matter?

[wind prairie]

wait what

[last adder]

Sure they could fold their wings, just not like a bird because that'd break their arm anatomy.

[runic rover]

By the way, celebrating Nano by buying a Nano figure, Safari ltd or PNSO?

[full lagoon]

PNSO models are really neat

[queen oar]

tbh, i think everything on the figure is done very horribly. There's like... Way more efficient ways to get that sorta of look

[wind prairie]

then how could they do it-

[queen oar]

Yeah, same opinion as the guy above, PNSO for the win

[last adder]

They could still move their hands and arms, just not fold them so tightly and high against the body like birds do

[undone rapids]

Carr's paper iirc had Alligators losing teeth as they grow and the differences of a Daspletosaurus juvi from a daspleto adult as examples of extreme changes in Tyrannosaur growth and tooth loss during to ontogeny + the skull's weirder differences being due to deformation and such.

Dr. Napoli's paper from last year found gators didn't loose teeth as they grew and the daspletosaurus juvinile was recently found to be a gorgosaurus juvi, so that made the Nano=Rex argument weaker.

[wind prairie]

yes but what other default arm position would they take? I can't visualize this

[hazy basalt]

Finding out that Deinonychus couldn't fold its arms tightly and could (maybe?) pronate is news to me too. See my post above, I'm desperate for more info on this because nobody seems to be talking about this.

[full lagoon]

Raptor arms are too often passed off as modern bird wings with fingers it seems

[wind prairie]

I thought they basically were tbf

[queen oar]

You telling me the guy who confused Gorgosaurus with Albertosaurus couldn't tell a Gorgo juvi apart from a Daspleto juvi???

Shocking

( Yes, I'm gonna do this joke to death )

[last adder]

These two arms are not the same and are positioned so differently on the body

[full lagoon]

Basically what tyrant is saying is that they probably wouldn't be too much different than other theropod dinosaurs

[runic rover]

Nono I mean, how did Carr 's theory took traction and nobody for a second went "wait a minute, Bakker isn't exactly a glomp shitto, he must know his own stuffs"

[queen oar]

Non-Avian Theropods had pretty flexible arms, no?

[undone rapids]

Nano was still seen as a Juvi by most people, also no adult Nanotyrannus and no decent material juvi rex was also a big thing. If there's no Juvinile of the most populas predator in hell creek, this must be it

[full lagoon]

They couldn't pronate well if at all, but they definitely could swipe and slash

Possibly even grab things to a degree

[queen oar]

Give me a sec

[last adder]

At most more like this than tightly tucked against the body.

[full lagoon]

Otherwise probably held out to a degree like other dinosaurs

[queen oar]

https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0952836905006989
https://doi.org/10.26879/900
https://researchonline.ljmu.ac.uk/id/eprint/24278/1/20240801 Allosaurus_MS.pdf

Pretty sure, the hands of Deinonychus reminds me a bit of Carnosaur hands, but I could be wrong ( Maybe only I have that impression )

[last adder]

Yes, their hands were still more similar to that of other theropods than avian dinosaurs

[queen oar]

Oh yeah, I couldn't forget... Australovenator
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0137709

[last adder]

Basically what I've been trying to get across

[hazy basalt]

I know that Megaraptorids have more flexible wrists and could semi-pronate, I wonder if their wrists have any similarities with Deinonychus'.

[full lagoon]

Another important thing this article mentions is that just testing the limitations of the bare bones themselves is not completely reliable

[queen oar]

That is True. However, it's better than nothing and just trying to guess by theory only

[full lagoon]

For sure, but my point is that it's probably not best to put a solid limitation on something we don't have the whole picture of

[queen oar]

I don't think it's putting a limitation and more exploring how extensive the limitation could be. Realistically, it would be better if these studies didn't just experimented how much they could possibly articulate the forelimbs, but also supported by some theory of how the muscles could look, maybe create a personal model of their own, and run some tests with that.

[full lagoon]

Our studies of animal remains often underplay some aspects of their functionality, though, and that was more of my point

[queen oar]

Hell, here's a suggestion: Given how there is some advancements on the technology of prosthetics... What about we try to make a Prosthetic of a Non-Avian Theropod? What do you guys think of that idea?

Basically, it could be moved by command, and would be designed in a way to still give function to that Theropod, based on our best guess of how their forelimbs worked.

[full lagoon]

That would be pretty interesting but also a bit extreme

[queen oar]

Yes, but what i'm saying it's more trying to find some way to put in-practice our knowledge, essentially

[full lagoon]

I'm honestly curious about how the arms of ornithomimosaurs might have been distinct from other dinosaurs

[last adder]

They seem to have the most potential for object manipulation and grasping from what I know about them.

[charred hearth]

did they do this irl?

[full lagoon]

We may never know.

[warped peak]

Probably outside of the realm of their terrestrial capabilities

[plucky grail]

yall so im watching videos on condors and i find out theyre so big that they to fall from high places or need heavy wind to fly
now im wondering how something like a hatzegopteryx can fly can someone explain

[warped peak]

Because Hatzeg's wings are it's legs, so it can use them to propel itself

Condors can't use their wings to run

[last adder]

Take notice of the body structure of both animals, they fly and walk in different ways.

Hatze has four limbs on the ground to plant itself, and a very awkward but efficient body build that's good at driving it forwards.

[white matrix]

I want all my apologies for bullying me for saying nanotyrannus is valid last year

[hazy basalt]

You would agree that the strongest muscles in a birds body are its pectorals right? Now imagine if birds could use those muscles to jump. That's what all Pterosaurs do.

[fluid inlet]

Not all flyers are built the same

[charred hearth]

is this true?

[tough parcel]

Hearsay

[wind prairie]

I thought the lambeosaur material wasn't true, and I've never heard of any therizinosaur material

[queen oar]

I believe this is referring to another ( Alleged ) Lambeosaurinae material, that like only got cited once? I won't remember from where.

[stiff osprey]

infinite jump glitch

[arctic crane]

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet
https://youtu.be/IfKTibGkJCc?si=7Jv8rUkHqZEp6O5b

[little mauve]

There's a few specimens of Ornithomimus that seem to show winglike feathers developing through ontogeny, that's pretty interesting imo

[storm heron]

I was under the impression that there is no evidence of pronation in non-avian Dinosaurs, so this is news to me.

Which study is this?

[little mauve]

I believe it's https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225366451_Forelimb_biomechanics_of_nonavian_theropod_dinosaurs_in_predation

[charred hearth]

do you think we'll ever find a early paleogene non avian dinosaur?

[light osprey]

Wouldn’t bet on it

[little mauve]

Yeah me neither, everywhere we have a record of the K/T boundary shows a sudden and total extinction

[runic heart]

Ammonites survived another 500k years though

[balmy oyster]

nanotyrannus

[compact leaf]

your average farmer probably isn’t keeping up with the maintenance on an elephant sized animal, horses would probably be fine

[balmy oyster]

it'll be hard to manage unless you can mantain something like styra to gore everything

[sinful shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/Visceral9000/status/1984339409614094802

🦎Visceral🪶 (Tomistoma enjoyer🐊) (@Visceral9000)

In light of recent Nanotyrannus news, how do we feel about these representations of juvenile/baby Tyrannosaurus now?

**💬 15 🔁 37 ❤️ 448 👁️ 34.3K **

FxTwitter · Oct 31, 2025, 7:19 PM

[jagged trellis]

isn't tarbo the best one to base EXTREMELY young mega tyrannos now

[tranquil sandal]

Jack Horner watching as all the dinosaurs he made as just juvie stages being identified as unique species (Hell Creek isn't just rex, trike, pachy, anky, and edmonto) [No slander to Jack though, great paleontologist, just the whole "most of hell creek are the same 5 species" thing ws kinda stupid]

[balmy oyster]

"individual variation" fans when genuine anatomical differences with multiple specimens or skeletal features to defend being split

[charred hearth]

so was all of jack horners theorys wrong

[drifting condor]

Could dinosaurs vomit?

[balmy oyster]

birds and crocs can regurgitate with no issue, so I don't see why they couldn't

[merry jewel]

https://youtu.be/0VpPY0qGbdA?si=JYQpI8YWq_3x9lwo

Super interesting video

[drifting condor]

I could've been a lizard

[balmy oyster]

I mean jack horner is STILL pushing the "rex was a coward lol" narrative + has meddled with rex specimens before, so I don't think he's really that great of a paleontologist.

[tranquil sandal]

Ehh, yeah ur probably right

[frigid delta]

would Rex, if one happened to accidentally met us, ignore us or eat us?
are we even worth as their snack?

[stiff osprey]

Yeah we're worth it. An 80kg human would be a whole meal for a rex

Issue is whether they would instinctually attack humans, or avoid us because we are so weird to them

[hardy sentinel]

What do you guys think would be the biggest thing that makes Nanotyrannus invalid again

[frigid delta]

the real effect of never seen a primate in their entire life
also i think this was like candies, do u take things for free even if they're small?
ig Rex sees us as candies then

[hardy sentinel]

I mean, Rex would see us as tiny bipedal things that run instead of fight and stay in groups. They'd probably think we were odd looking Ornithomimosaurs

[charred hearth]

would you be more scared of a nanotyrannus or rex

[hardy sentinel]

Nanotyrannus because it could catch you faster but not kill you quicker

[stiff osprey]

even if you consider our bones and organs to be inedible (which is doubtful) rex would only need to eat ~4 humans to fill its daily food requirements, and just 1 or 2 if it ate the whole person

but yes nanotyrannus, nano is probably the most terrifying dinosaur

[charred hearth]

so like, do we know its speed? would it be anywhere compareable to a struthi?

[hardy sentinel]

Also if we go into a tiny area, a Nano can follow us into it

[charred hearth]

nanotyrannus core?

[hardy sentinel]

Obviously not a crawlspace, but things like heavy coverings of trees, caves, etc we can be followed

[stiff osprey]

it can also fit through a door

[frigid delta]

i have been evolved from Nano denier to Nano believer

[hardy sentinel]

Even the bigger species considering those weirdos can crouch

[charred hearth]

now, who would you fear more, a utah or a nano

[wind prairie]

bro bloody mary is an adult 💔 it's here to stay
you can argue about lethaeus if you want a little but the genus is definitively back

[hardy sentinel]

But deep down you were always a follower of the sciences

Hence why your opinion changed so wuickl

[frigid delta]

for once, media franchises was right to depict them always chasing us with unrelenting savagery until we are torn to shreds between the Rex's tooth-filled jaws

[hardy sentinel]

Chat how do we know the big Rexes aren't the babies

[stiff osprey]

30 year old skeletally mature baby

[hardy sentinel]

You should meet my old boss and you'll know those exist

[stiff osprey]

after 30 they just kept growing more soft tissue until they were godzilla sized slime balls

also lol

[charred hearth]

where would archeraptor, hell creek dromeosaur, nano and tyrannosaurus fall onto this?

[tranquil sandal]

2-3rd level consumers

[balmy oyster]

if we start running for a while likely no, but if we sit there and do nothing then yeah

[stiff osprey]

rex was basically eating exclusively large herbivores so ironically it would be a lower trophic level than like acheroraptor

[charred hearth]

wait whta?

[tranquil sandal]

That same rex with practically silent footsteps and the best eyesight of any terrestrial animal:

[charred hearth]

but isnt the highest level the apex??

[stiff osprey]

trophic level is how many steps between you and the bottom of the food chain

[balmy oyster]

"silent footsteps" are a myth, it's more like it makes the direction where the rex is coming from harder to figure out which I think's a little cooler

[charred hearth]

this is really sad to see/hear

[stiff osprey]

rex eats a trike -> trike eats plants

achero eats a lizard -> lizard eats bug -> bug eats plants

in this scenario rex is a secondary consumer and achero a tertiary consumer

[balmy oyster]

why was everyone so against nano again? people can be so stupidly stubborn for no good reason whatsoever.

[frigid delta]

talking abt Rex, is 11.6-12.4 meters & 7-10.4 tons is an accurate size for Rex?

[hardy sentinel]

Rex can outpace a human, and they can walk at like, 10 mph right?

We'd be cooked if a Rex knew how healthy we were for it's diet

[tranquil sandal]

mb gang, my brain just defaults to rex having silent footsteps

[balmy oyster]

honestly same lol

[charred hearth]

this is very sad to read

[hardy sentinel]

Send me the thread I gotta read ts

[tranquil sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-confused-jimmy-butler-confused-eye-squint-gif-12144635464811342257

[frigid delta]

who even is George Blasing dawg
NPC ass we don't even know who you are, get out from here

[bright veldt]

I kinda just roll my eyes at this. Obviously I'm not going to defend actual vitriole, that's unacceptable regardless, but Blasing has his own history of harassing people who disagree with him, ontop of it really just being another case of someone going "I was right all along" when the success of nano today was the science rather than personal opinion.

[tough parcel]

I swear to God, this convo just happened already

Did time go backwards or smth

[charred hearth]

he wrote peak fiction hop off

[frigid delta]

oh hell nah he's more pathetic than i ever imagined 💀

[stiff osprey]

Scanova replied to the george message but it was posted again immediately after so he deleted it and posted it again, thus causing a time paradox

[hardy sentinel]

I like how every community has a toxic group. For Paleontology it was SOME of the anti Nano fanboys

[bright veldt]

That's really a minor footnote compared to actual problematic people tbh.

[charred hearth]

this is really sad but i am so hungry rn

[frigid delta]

are you so hungry you could eat an Argentinosaurus?

[charred hearth]

pre nerf perecetus

[jagged trellis]

bro could go for the pando tree colony

[charred hearth]

why do they hate nano so much that they must harass someone over it?

[frigid delta]

their evolution to Nano believer is malfunctioned

DAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tranquil sandal]

baby nanotyrannus:

[hardy sentinel]

VALIDIFICATIONN!!!

[charred hearth]

damn.

[hardy sentinel]

DIVERSIFICATION!!!!

[frigid delta]

NANOTYRANNUS!!!

[frigid delta]

nobody:
Mapusaurus vs Argentinosaurus:
The Titan, of immeasurable power and ferocity. He strode upon the plain and faced the Earth Lizard and a mighty battle was fought on the desolate plains. The Titan fought with the fury of the countless that had fallen at the Earth Lizard's hand, but there fell the Titan, and in his defeat the dinosaur horde were routed.

[plucky basin]

holy bars

[proud prawn]

Pretty decent range yeah
If you go for known fully-grown adults they'd be 9-10+ tonnes, but we do have individuals of unknown ages that are in the 7-tonne range

[queen oar]

@frigid delta what dinosaur trophies do you currently have?

[frigid delta]

26

[queen oar]

Damn, it's full too. You even have the enigmatic Agathaumas.

What Carnivores mod would you recommend?

[frigid delta]

Legacy
Fallen Kings
Round Up
Dangergrounds
and many more i can't named all but worth the shots

[queen oar]

What do you think if there was a Carnivores game where the animals are based on Gregory S. Paul's reconstructions?

[arctic crane]

Ornithischians like pachycephalosaurus don't have anavian respiratory systems right? So theoretically they could run for as long as a theropod

[arctic crane]

I'm thinking about how an animal like nanotyrannus hunts. Its long legs and gracile build implies it could sprint pretty fast for an animal of its size, and being a theropod its respiratory system would give it a lot of stamina. So I imagine it would change its tactics depending on what it's hunting and how much it wants it. Ambushing prey an/or pursuit predation aren't really mutually exclusive.

But how would an animal like pachy deal with this? Could it out run a nano or could it out turn one? Would they have the stamina to outlast a hunting attempt? As for fighting back I could see it but in the modern day herbivores that have ram like weapons as opposed to sharp horns or antlers have a harder time fighting off predators and using rely on speed and agility or bulk in the case of must ox.

[winter marsh]

REINCARNATION!!!!!

[charred hearth]

do you have a nanotyrannus skeletal? i could help you with your issue

[arctic crane]

What do you mean?

[charred hearth]

just trust me, give me a skeletal

[arctic crane]

Like this? It's Jane so it should work

[charred hearth]

this is probably wrong since im using a different program

[arctic crane]

Thanks. Definitely dangerous prey then. If nano even targeted stuff that large peachy might have the bulk to defend itself even if its headbutt isn't as effective. Though the mechanics of pachys headbutt has to be weird too. We only have quadrupeds with weapons like that today so maybe pachys could swing around more effectively than a ram or musk ox could

[charred hearth]

again, this size is probably not accurate

[wind prairie]

those arms are prob too small

[arctic crane]

It's not my diagram. I know Jane is supposed to be the larger of the two nano species so I tried to find one that was of that. I didn't have one at hand

[arctic crane]

I could see a nano hunting some like that especially the young, sick or weak. I imagine if a nano was desperate enough to try its luck against an adult that large it would prefer to ambush it rather than try chasing one down and risking injury

[wind prairie]

what is this audio

[bright veldt]

Eh keep in mind pachy is 50% smaller to half the nano's size and the dome isn't exactly a great defense. I don't see it being a good time for it either way.

[wind prairie]

yeah this doesn't look right lol

[arctic crane]

Do you have a more accurate size comparison?

[tough parcel]

No because Pachycephalosaurus sucks in terms of having anything described

And also having anything to describe

[bright veldt]

I mean I think the size comparison is fine it's just eyeballing it vs taking the actual weight into account.

[arctic crane]

Am I right about ornithischians not having an avian respiratory system. I've heard that was the case but it feels wrong

[wind prairie]

when was that thing about pachycephalosaurs fighting on their tails like kangaroos coming out? Whatever happened with that?

[light osprey]

Hartman has just redone his Jane skeletal

[arctic crane]

Right that one of the things I was saying. Looking at the animals of hellcreek that I am guessing are in nano's size range (admittedly I am guessing) I could see how a lot of them avoid predation like some of the ornithomimids for example. But pachy confuses me. Couldn't it out run a nano? Out last one? Out fight one? That's what I'm trying to imagine

[little mauve]

That's right, we're not exactly sure what kind of system ornithiscians used but it may have been a "pelvic bellows" system similar to the hepatic piston in crocodylians

[arctic crane]

Maybe I'm missing something. Animals usually run, fight, and/or hide from predators. So many pachy actually just had crazy camouflage like the carnos in the second JP book lol

[little mauve]

https://elifesciences.org/articles/70947

A theropod like nanotyrannus would have had a much more efficient and powerful respiratory system

[lavish frigate]

It’s arms look so short but every nano depiction I’ve seen is giving them big boi arms, am I just a smol brain boi

[arctic crane]

Now that is interesting I'll have to read and look into this later. Thank you

Theropods respiratory system allowing the to utilize crazy stamina, is one of the reasons why I have the theory that so many? Ornithischians went so hard into the defenseve weapons and bulk. And gracile builds and speed seem to be how small theropods escaped predation. There are obviously exceptions to that

[full lagoon]

I could see one putting up a fight tbh, at least in certain occasions. We also have to take account of the size and potential other internal differences that could have atleast made it a bit more fair

[full lagoon]

But yeah I think the stamina aspect of theropods is heavily overlooked. Especially in terms of theoretical matchups against large mammals

[little mauve]

Respiration is definitely a big part of dinosaur diversification. Then you have sauropods using pneumatization to massively increase their bulk beyond any ornithiscian

[full lagoon]

It's probably one of the only reasons they could even exist at those sizes to begin with

[little mauve]

Oh yeah it absolutely is

[arctic crane]

Sauropods feel like a force onto themselves. They are so weird and interesting

How smaller less armed ornithischians avoid predation is some I think about often. I wonder what they did to survive their predators both theropods and others

[compact leaf]

early detection and fleeing is a safe bet

there’s a lot of habitat considerations that go into predator avoidance in modern animals that we tend to ignore in paleo for some reason

I work in a specific environment where eastern cottontail are pretty common and a lot of how they avoid predators is by having briar patches that they specifically use to run into and escape, we actually call it escape cover lol

[little mauve]

Yeah i could see a lot of small ornithiscians using cover, generally being elusive like most small animals are

[arctic crane]

Camouflage too. And being faster than your predator goes along way. A therapod might be able to run forever but it doesn't matter if you quickly Sprint away and disappear into the undergrowth

[compact leaf]

oh for sure

[little mauve]

Burrowing may have been common too

[compact leaf]

it certainly is in modern animals

[full lagoon]

Also general agility too

[light osprey]

The cavernous Edmontosaurus burrow

[arctic crane]

Yep out juking you predator is a useful skill

[little mauve]

Secret of their success

[full lagoon]

It's not like they would have been incompetent at all, especially given their supposed massive success worldwide

[arctic crane]

And obviously small theropods would use many of these same tactics. Smaller predators have predators of their own

[little mauve]

Yes with their avian or protoavian respiration leading to the evolution of hypercursorial theropods in multiple lineages

[light osprey]

Perhaps rapid growth rates as well

[arctic crane]

I get how smaller dino avoid predation and how the big and well weaponized one did it. Edmont is just so big that the very act of trying to kill it could hurt its predator let alone it kick or biting back

[full lagoon]

And they still probably weren't horrible at maintaining speed either

[little mauve]

They also moved in herds of potentially tens of thousands of individuals. Just penetrating that to pick out a target is difficult

[arctic crane]

This is a very cool conversation. But I'm still trying to think of what tactics a pachy would use to avoid predation from a nano

[little mauve]

Even taking in all the collection and preservation biases of the formation I think there's good reason to believe pachycephalosaurs were rare elements of the fauna. Which may mean numerically rare and likewise not a common prey item or they were somehow ecologically segregated from where we get good preservation in those rocks. They may have lived out of reach from many predators in uplands or arid basins where large predators are more rare

[full lagoon]

Also, isn't it pretty much proven that they could indeed use their heads for offense?

[light osprey]

Fascinating how isotopic analysis could tell us a lot about this, like a great many things which it has yet been applied to

[little mauve]

I know right they should be doing that stuff to everything

[arctic crane]

Do we have a reason to believe that nanotyrannus wasn't living in the rest of laramidia.or was at least rare?

[little mauve]

Just like today Laramidia would have been a mosaic of habitats and just like any animal nanotyrannus is not going to be evenly distributed across all habitats

[arctic crane]

Yes, but at least in modern animals, the ones that have bashing and bludgeoning weapons have a harder time using them to defend themselves from predators in ones with stabbing or grappling weapons

[light osprey]

Generally our westward sedimentary basins have been less productive

[little mauve]

And thats where a lot of the higher altitude and more arid conditions would have been preserved, no?

[full lagoon]

True, but they are at a nice height to target the legs I'd think

[light osprey]

Higher altitude only confidently in Sheep pass, however that is mostly breccia/conglomerate so fat chance any bones could survive there if they were present. Willow Creek fm is certainly more arid but preserves nothing particularly wacky/interesting, and Hall Lake is its own thing but still has worse quality fossils

[arctic crane]

That's true. There are a lot of animals in the modern day that are very widespread throughout entire continents or even multiple

[arctic crane]

One thing that pachy has over a ram or musk ox is that it's bipedal and that could allow it to swing its head laterally providing enough force for its bludgeoning weapon to be effective. Modern animals with weapons like that have to be at speed for them to do anything.

I just don't know if there are any studies that show that packy swing its head horizontally or diagonally like a warhammer

[full lagoon]

And we know that they could definitely take absurd forces too, I could definitely see one injuring a predator

[little mauve]

Yeah I'm just picturing the foothills of the young Rockies and the kind of stuff that may have been up there

[arctic crane]

I love when my passion for historical martial arts and paleontology overlap lol

[light osprey]

Although I think numerically rare is not off the table, I think it’s possible the groups present in HCF may have still preferred the depositional environment rather than somewhere off into the west

[little mauve]

Thats basically where I'm at with it, the faunas to the west could have been pretty different in composition depending on the environment

[arctic crane]

Do we have a wider view of laramidia's habitats during the latest cretaceous? I know hell creek was swampy and forested, And I think I read that the western coastline is vaguely similar to modern-day Californians don't know how true that is though.

[light osprey]

There’s not much to indicate aridity on the southern western coast. Much like today, the intermontane basins of Maastrichtian NA were vaguely similar to their modern basin and range counterparts. Though I’m not confident we’ve found radically different faunal composition further inland thus far.

[arctic crane]

I suppose a range map of animals that live to 66 million years ago is way too much to ask for lol

[light osprey]

In most paleontological contexts it’s just infeasible

[little mauve]

Yeah ask again in a few millenia

[runic heart]

Prince creek is mostly maastrichtian, yes? (Your description)

[light osprey]

It’s been redated as late Campanian, about 1mya before the Campanian/maastrichtian boundary

[runic heart]

Does that not mean it probably had the same fauna into the maastrichtian?

[charred hearth]

do we think nano would ever go after a fully grown trike/toro/edmonto?

[hardy sentinel]

While I do like the idea of Tyrannosaurus having multiple species, I also like the idea of it being so perfect that it wouldn't need to adapt enough to be considered a different species

[hardy sentinel]

The bigger species at fully grown probably would if the situation was right

[arctic crane]

Fully grown? I doubt it. Even a desperate one probably wouldn't. That would be like a leopard attacking a fully grown healthy elephant

[light osprey]

We have no idea

[arctic crane]

I could see a nano attacking one of the babies though if the situation was right

[charred hearth]

this is really sad https://x.com/domdyer70/status/1983462981229826217

dominic dyer (@domdyer70)

Scientists just found dolphins with Alzheimer’s. Yes, dolphins. The ocean’s geniuses are literally losing their memories.

In a shocking discovery, researchers studying stranded dolphins in Scotland found something terrifying. When they looked at the dolphins’ brains under a

X · Oct 29, 2025, 9:16 AM

[full lagoon]

It won't get any better at this rate either

[cloud dagger]

How’s that paleo related

[charred hearth]

soon they will be paleotology

[full lagoon]

So will we lol

[lavish frigate]

Pessimism is cringe and bad for you, stop being cringe and bad

[stiff osprey]

Chat is it pessimism to think we won't live forever

[hardy sentinel]

Define live

[stiff osprey]

true

[arctic crane]

Chat longs to be part of the fossil record

[thorn grove]

the children yearn for fossilization

[queen oar]

Yeah.

[stiff osprey]

How tho, we have yet to discover any person that can live forever

other than like walt disney's frozen head or something

[queen oar]

Random, no offense

But, I think I would be more sad if I used AI for any of my projects, rather than the fact that my life has a limit

I mean, the second one, that's something you just can get used to... The first one? Don't know if that's something you can overcome.

[stiff osprey]

what does an alligator have to do with human mortality or AI usage

like you are aware the stokes alligator is a real animal right

[hardy sentinel]

I deadass wanna be fossilized, all the bits of me

At the very least I want future paleontologists to find my healed broken arm and conclude that it took metal implants to heal (despite said metal implants not being present anymore)

[queen oar]

Life is limited, therefore you should seek to do what you want, regardless of how small or big it is, regardless of how easy or difficult it is...

Wanting to take a shortcut... Kinda of goes against that basic idea

Also, I think you would like to reconsider your statement, as yes, the Animal is pretty clearly real... But, it's pretty obvious that you took the 4.8 meters one from Gemini AI.

https://bioone.org/journals/southeastern-naturalist/volume-14/issue-3/058.014.0302/A-New-Record-for-the-Maximum-Length-of-the-American/10.1656/058.014.0302.short

[compact leaf]

the stokes alligator was a unit

[hardy sentinel]

There should be a fossilization program that lets you get buried in a random area in a good fossilization slurry and just buried without being disturbed

[compact leaf]

I’m not sure where you’re getting random taking that from Gemini, the stokes alligator measurements are independently verifiable

[stiff osprey]

a very funny accusation given that i made the chart in 2020 and gemini AI came out in 2023

i in fact took it from a 2017 news report that listed the length of the gator as 15 feet 9 inches (4.801 m)

[compact leaf]

what’s crazier to me is that alligators probably used to get to sizes like that more routinely (and there’s ones of that size that are just smart enough to avoid people) we must murked all the big ones

we as wildlife managers put size limits on fish for that exact reason (fish don’t technically count as wildlife but we’re gonna ignore that for a minute)

[queen oar]

Oh yes, your Croc chart has existed way before Gemini AI. However, I think it's pretty simple to understand that I'm more referring to the current version of it. Even, If you didn't. You decided to not search for any verifiable scientific sources and depend on a News report??? And to also, not update it?

[stiff osprey]

there are other reports of 15+ foot gators but i figured this one was more reliable since it was recent, guess I was wrong

but no, you do not get to call me out on failing to fact check when you accused me of using an AI that came out three years later based on your own inability to find other sources for the measurement

[queen oar]

So, correct me If i'm wrong, but Metasuchus was working on a Toyotamaphimeia skeletal in what year?

[stiff osprey]

2023-24 i think

[compact leaf]

there is verified 15+ foot gators some of which are alive (like 19 feet is the longest I think somehow) but the stokes alligator has the largest verified mass

[stiff osprey]

nevermind it was 2021 when armin made his

[queen oar]

Interesting. And fair, I guess. Clearly, I've been misinformed by someone, and I would like to apologize for my mistake... Would you like something as compensation for my trouble?

[stiff osprey]

oh wait armin and meta are different people i've no idea when Meta made his

and sure

[queen oar]

What would you particularly wish?

[arctic crane]

Black caimans also got that treatment

[stiff osprey]

oh nvm i thought you had like a new thing you were going to reveal

I mean i was still wrong about the size so i'm not mad about it

[queen oar]

No no no no! I made a very serious accusation, specially in a space where Artistic Skill is highly valued, so I believe it's only fair if I gave you something in return for my error.

[stiff osprey]

I'm struggling to think of anything i need that's discord related, maybe like send me pictures of monitor lizards or something i'm never opposed to that

[queen oar]

https://tenor.com/view/lizard-reptile-komodo-dragon-hug-gif-15488534

[stiff osprey]

excellent

[stiff osprey]

there are living ones?

I mean i guess at this point it's not paleo related but if there was a living 19ft gator i thought i'd have heard of it

[hardy sentinel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakinyantanka

Nanotyrannus?

[balmy oyster]

I really hope jane gets a good description in the future, so that we can compare with both lancensis & lethaeus

[undone rapids]

Carr is working on that iirc

[balmy oyster]

yay

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/IfKTibGkJCc?si=HIH77xqBF4UmvNgu

[compact leaf]

19ft is dead but on record, there’s live 16 footers out there but it’s rare

[humble anchor]

Latheuas and lancensus would be cool for Alio TLC

[scenic flame]

wouldn't make any sense tho, there's 2 irl alio species and their close relative Qianzhousaurus

[humble anchor]

Yeah that what I was thinking, although a nanotyrannus reference like that I think would be cool. They won’t do it anyway

[ember hatch]

yall i have just found my first ever fossils

its a pretty cool gastropod i found

[ashen wedge]

When will we get Troodon back as a valid species?

[sharp canyon]

Are there any theories or papers on the grooming behavior of pterosaurs?

[wind prairie]

I don't think we can really know but I've always imagined them just picking at themselves with their beaks

[sharp canyon]

Hence why I specified theories

[ashen wedge]

I guess pecking will be an option

[charred hearth]

why are nodasaurids / ankylosaurids usually potrayed as non social?

[ashen wedge]

Could be that they are more solitary than other dinosaurs, or at least will be like other dinosaurs when it comes to mating pairs and raising kids/family

[little mauve]

Stem-fleas show up in the fossil record in the Middle Jurassic of China so it's possible their evolution corresponds with the increased diversity of feathered dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and mammals. Even by the Early Cretaceous they are still quite a bit different than today's fleas, mostly being larger and less specialized. But pterosaurs still probably dealt with them the same way modern birds do: preening and dust baths

[charred hearth]

okay but where does this interpretation come from?

[queen oar]

Maybe vary it depending on the type of Pterosaur?

Pterosaur with teeth have more thick coats, so it's practical to use their jaws for brushing

Pterosaurs without teeth have more thin and tight coats, so it's more practical to use the tip of their beaks

Maybe make them use their claws or their bodies ( like scratching themselves against some object ) for areas they can't exactly reach with their jaws/beaks.

Although, considering how Birds kinda of have very variable methods, you could perhaps say the same happens for Pterosaurs? Idk

[little mauve]

interestingly enough allopreening is absent in paleognathae and likely was in dinosaurs and pterosaurs https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10442270/

[ashen wedge]

I’m just going off of speculation of behavior as seen in modern day birds and reptiles

[queen oar]

I would say that could be related to other factors. Not likely a good idea to generalize it to Dinosaurs and Pterosaurs. As relatives to Palaeognathes seem to have a preference for dry methods of cleaning, like Dust baths ( At least, from what I'm finding so far ).

It also has to be put into consideration, that the integument configurations in Palaeognathes, as the same it's not reflective of all configurations in Birds, it might also not be reflecting of all configurations in Dinosaurs and Pterosaurs ( Which, in many clear instances, like preserved integument or impressions of said integument, it clearly doesn't ).

[charred hearth]

can someone edit nano into this image?

[tough parcel]

Effort

[charred hearth]

i cant do it myself because ibis paint x has me ip banned for hacking into it so i dont have to pay for premium

[tough parcel]

TIL Ibis does that

[little mauve]

read the paper, it's about cognition not integument

[bright flint]

Thank you

[arctic crane]

Can't wait for next the paper to describe that the dueling dinos actually just washed up like that after a hurricane or something and didn't actually fight to a draw

[opaque kayak]

That's diabolical 😭

[full lagoon]

My guess is that it was something like both of those events, given the fact they fossilized anyways.

[umbral kite]

hey guys how many hadrosaur where a herd after breeding and mating season if you had to guess

[paper hollow]

[runic heart]

I don’t even know what to say here.

[lavish frigate]

I

What

No

Dont do this to me

[runic heart]

What do we think, chat?

[fierce quarry]

The first two are peak

[ancient crystal]

Hi, Marine Biologist here...

No.

Just no.

[fierce quarry]

I mean...the first two are possible, no ?

[runic heart]

That last one is not at all plausible, yes?

[ancient crystal]

Correct, especially the tail. Symmetrical tails like that are a relatively recent adaptation in fish, showing up in more advanced teleosts. There is no reason to think dunkleosteus - a placoderm - had something like that

[runic heart]

And the head?

[ancient crystal]

Also, being able to see the bony armor isn't the same as shrinkwrapping unless you reconstruct the plates as external really. Lots of armored fish have their armor at least partially visible.

As for the lips, they're pretty silly. There is no benefit to having them especially as fleshy as they are

It strikes me as another example of people going to far to try and separate themselves from shrinkwrapping and other old paleotropes

[runic heart]

Actually this makes me think, did lips evolve in fish before they went onto land, or after?

Cause I see tiktaalik portrayed with lips often.

[ancient crystal]

Probably before, but I guess it depends on what you consider lips

[runic heart]

Just coverings over teeth. My first question is, why would they have developed “lips” in the first place, and my second is why would an animal like a crocodile or a river dolphin loose their lips or have exposed teeth?

[queen oar]

I mean, most fish have it, no?

Noted, you don't need to do it like that, and you can do it more efficiently for Dunkleosteus:
https://x.com/mcdom787751/status/1830746776791589189
https://x.com/Evoincarnate/status/1869459300273586215
https://x.com/Evoincarnate/status/1921723552442523854

McMona (@mcdom787751)

Dunkleosteus terrelli

Muchas gracias a @MrFragilis por ayudarme con el color para este animal!!
Créditos del skeletal usado para reconstruir al dunki son para @Evoincarnate

X · Sep 2, 2024, 11:16 PM

‘EWA WAHINE’ONIUHINUI (she/they/it) 🦈 (@Evoincarnate)

MY OWN DUNKLEOSTEUS THREAD!!
there has been a decent amount of change to this animal and i feel i might explain how to reconstruct this animal and the reasons i reconstruct it the way i do!!

X · Dec 18, 2024, 7:06 PM

‘EWA WAHINE’ONIUHINUI (she/they/it) 🦈 (@Evoincarnate)

It’s still really weird to me that dunkleosteus’ didn’t have its lateral line on its body
Only the armor

X · May 12, 2025, 12:26 AM

[runic heart]

The first teeth developed weren’t exposed, so yeah…..

[queen oar]

They were a bit, but they also weren't per say... " Shrinkwrapped ", there still would be some oral tissue. Even if minimal...

[runic heart]

So the question isn’t why does an animal have covered teeth, it’s why doesn’t an animal have covered teeth.

[ancient crystal]

Well animals like crocodiles and river dolphins don't need lips because they have their own way to keep their teeth from drying out by virtue of their habitat. Lips have been gained and lost many times in vertebrate evolution across different groups.

As for coverings over teeth, lots of fish don't have those anyway and just have teeth sticking straight out of their jaws. Placoderms didn't have teeth so much as they had pieces of their skull modified for the same function as teeth, and early toothed fishes like sharks again just have them sticking straight out of their face and I wouldn't consider what little flesh they have around their jaws to really be lips.

[runic heart]

I’m just talking about anything that covers teeth when the mouth is closed. And how can we tell which extinct animals did and didn’t have something like that.

I’d imagine phytosaurs even had lip scales.

[queen oar]

It can be a bit subjective. Realistically, a lot of people tend to assume Lips or " Extra Oral Tissues " have to necessarily cover both jaws, but in the extant record, we have observed that might not entirely be the case, sometimes it's exclusive purely to the upper jaw of some animals, and it seems to be mostly correlated to the feeding mechanisms of those animals

In a extreme and totally hypothetical case, a animal could not have covered teeth IF it's necessary for their feeding to function

It's consistent to what we see with reptiles, how their oral configurations are shaped alongside the bones of their jaws, and it's consistent to how Mammals have lips potentially due to function of sucking in offsprings... Because, you know? They are " Mammals ", they have Mammary glands

For a lot of extinct animals though... This is where it becomes subjective to what we may find or test on them, respectively.

[charred hearth]

is this shrink wrapped

[ancient crystal]

That's hard to do but thankfully we have a lot of ancient fish lineages still in the oceans today to make inferences off of.

I'd wager a guess and say at least not all of dunkleosteus's gnathal plates (plating?) were covered by flesh and its probably better to look at sharks which have true teeth to look at how those structures evolved.

[charred hearth]

i didnt get to see 🙁

[paper parcel]

They can't keep getting away with this

[full lagoon]

Is the portrayal of a single lobed tail just out of the question or something

[ancient crystal]

Not to my knowledge, but also unlikely for dunkle's theorized niche

[full lagoon]

It's diabolical a modern fish tail is there instead of that though

[ancient crystal]

The symmetrical (homocercal) tail is out of the question though

[queen oar]

So, the Bot didn't like something I said

But I responded to this before, it's very fitting with what we imagine the tissues of a Mammuthus columbi would look like around the skeleton. It might be giving the impression the tissues are too tight around the head, because of the " Big Forehead " ( avoiding to use the term, because I think the bot didn't like it ) but it's speculative feat included in this model used for Primeval, inspired or based on those that Wooly Mammoths would have

And some Mammoth species can be hairless during summers.

[paper parcel]

Kinda wish they would bring back paleoloxodon namadicus

[full lagoon]

This niche being a more quickly moving predator? Vaugely like a shark or giant piranha id assume

[ancient crystal]

Something of that nature. Single lobbed tails are usually not something an animal with dunk's body shape develop unless they aren't moving fast very often or at all

[full lagoon]

Understandable given the modern examples that exist today

[prisma hawk]

Lol

[queen oar]

About Dunkleosteus, I would like to point out, that I'm not particularly informed on them. Fish simply aren't my main thing

However, a lot of feats included in modern Dunkleosteus reconstructions have been done so because it follows general trends to what we see in the extant and extinct record to some matter

I would like to advice you, that if you have any particular questions about it, you can ask this person:

https://x.com/Evoincarnate/status/1869459311082258793

They are more involved in Paleo-Circles surrounding extinct fishes, and they have more proper knowledge on the topic.

‘EWA WAHINE’ONIUHINUI (she/they/it) 🦈 (@Evoincarnate)

here is how i reconstruct the plates and face
as its unlikely dunkleosteus had lips ive "shrinkwrapped" the plates a bit but there is a thing as too much here
its subtle like how modern fish have bony plates and some are bony landmarks and some areas are covered in flesh

X · Dec 18, 2024, 7:06 PM

[full lagoon]

We don't need any extinct animals when modern ones are already struggling to eat or have enough space to sustain themselves

[scenic flame]

this isn't true, we absolutely do not have enough fossils of pterosaurs with feather impressions to say that.

[queen oar]

Well, I wasn't saying it was, I was more saying on the lines of it being hypothetical...

I think the usage of " Maybe " ,made that clear

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/TM9380/status/1984970280687607833

Taylor McCoy 🦖 (@TM9380)

While the concept of a Nanotyrannus harassing a juvenile T.rex like we see in Jurassic Fight Club isn’t unreasonable, the young T.rex specimen used for inspiration probably wouldn’t have much need to worry considering it was a 9 meter specimen, lol

X · Nov 2, 2025, 1:06 PM

[fading smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/lilo-and-stitch-disney-lilo-stitch-hiss-gif-3562813
Me every time nanotyrannus is resurrected:

[thorn grove]

I don’t think it’s going anywhere this time

[timid storm]

Whaat is that

[charred hearth]

read

[hardy sentinel]

This paleoart is my favorite because it shows that realistically, a Pachy's head would explode under pressure

[tough parcel]

I suspect many things would explode under sudden, substantial pressure

[craggy trench]

very festive pfp

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-the-voices-jolly-christmas-gif-5774532700081404887

[ancient crystal]

Its not even thanksgiving you monster

[wind prairie]

the voices are getting thankful

[tough parcel]

The Nanotyrannus would never wear a pilgrim hat

[paper parcel]

Anyone else think anurognathus might have looked like the potoo irl

[sly viper]

Dinosaur

[swift zodiac]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09801-6.epdf

ew sharing token what the hell is that

now it wont pet me see

ok wow it needs the sharing token to be able to see without paying

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09801-6.epdf?sharing_token=7qZ-lco9NT2Ow1zNoeJh49RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0MfdHYu1UI12EZ0FhzybHqhV7eJvdXGpWIQkzELhFze9ZyfuCrOB2N07zByTZSjiDR8UajG6mXTlyhG9RiPskMjh4dawelagVQDhwOnuftlOdbH6w-cq_oRBGW2aMoE8yMPsnUs_xiA8BxzKd0dSNqQC2hVD3ID_44cmK0MYTU7ZiXNjdNQNvBtkctoVUzaiSY%3D&tracking_referrer=abcnews.go.com

[full lagoon]

Was this ever a question?

[charred hearth]

whats the largest playable in PoT gondwa could actually support a large and stable population of?

[paper parcel]

eotriceratops, or if you count modded but still real animals apatosaurus and lisowicia

[charred hearth]

isnt PoT's map like, smaller then hateg

[iron halo]

it’s 8km by 8km IIRC
including the ocean

[stiff osprey]

that is really really small for real life

[charred hearth]

whats it compareable too irl?

[paper parcel]

Still, they both have high survivability, yeah overtime they might get smaller but they generally have the best chances, both because yknow, they have really good defenses like whiptails/herds, giant tusks/horns, and size. They also don't have to hunt for food constantly. or amarg. which already is small for a sauropod

[stiff osprey]

hateg is 80,000 km², this map is... less than 40km²

[paper parcel]

Map is also abundunt with edible plants and has no toxic vegetation, only thing that is toxic is the deathcaps and they literally exist in one area.

[charred hearth]

and whats stopping it from all being eaten in a month or so by a stable large herbi population

[stiff osprey]

apato or eotrike would starve to death within a year

now cumberland island is 150km² and apparently has a small horse population, so maybe campto or struth would survive

[charred hearth]

would the main predator be ..hatz?

[wind prairie]

wait how do we know how big hateg was

[stiff osprey]

idk it was said to be similar to hokkaido

by a benton et al 2011

[paper parcel]

hatz or some form of theropod like yuty or maip, dimetrodon milleris would be everyone since they are small enough to not require much food, same with some that are not mods yet, like diictodon or the rock hyrax.

[charred hearth]

i think yuty or maip would be wayyyyyyyyyy to big

[thorn grove]

if the herbivores would be maxing out at <1 ton I imagine the vast majority of pot playable carnis would be too large

[charred hearth]

the ones i think would live there are , laten, deinon, rhamp, thal , hatz and potentially concave, and spino as a visitor once and a while

[stiff osprey]

vagrant spinosaurus pulling up to gondwa after 5 million years

[charred hearth]

what makes something count as marine?

[wind prairie]

saltwater

[charred hearth]

like, lets say spino ocasionally visited the ocean, would that make it a marine dinosaur or no? like, do you gotta live in it full time??

[wind prairie]

spino is definitely not a marine dinosaur because its desired habitat was freshwater
hesperornis I would consider a marine dinosaur

[charred hearth]

i know , but the other question, what defines being a marine? living in saltwater full time?

[wind prairie]

I mean pinnipeds can go onto land but I wouldn't call them not marine

[charred hearth]

is this true?

[opaque kayak]

Do we know if the "dromeosaur" remains are even from hell creek and not just taken and faked from some other place by depalma knowing the guy?

[queen oar]

You know

it would be really cool, if Dakotaraptor got the Nanotyrannus treatment...

like, right now

[tough parcel]

Nah

[charred hearth]

i have no clue

[runic heart]

I love the possibility of spinosaurus crossing the sea between Africa and South America, because that implies it ran into….. Monquirasaurus…..

[queen oar]

Hope not.

[bitter quest]

Which is the better up to date skeletal for yuty?

[novel steppe]

just some pics of my Dino’s from a community server, not sure where else in here to post them haha

[ancient crystal]

Living predominantly within, and relying on marine environments in order to survive is how I would define it

[charred hearth]

so while hippos may venture out into the alantic ocean, because they dont rely on it, theyh wouldnt count?

[ancient crystal]

Yes

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/JMYizmGeM6Y?si=Fw-g1VxwE1A7AAr-

[random lance]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729752982396338276/1434746187612946593/caption.gif

[queen oar]

Personally, use GetAwayTrike for the body
https://www.deviantart.com/getawaytrike/art/Beautiful-feathered-tyrants-639050619

And only if you want, you can use Blame's skulls
https://x.com/SirBlameson/status/1876223119880593767?t=rkIFlz46C6xV8II2JSc3wQ&s=19

Julian P / Blame (@SirBlameson)

‼️ STOP USING BABY YUTYRANNUS SKULL FOR RECONS ‼️

There are distinctions between each of the specimens!!!

Left to Right -
ZCDM v5000, ZCDM v5001, ELDM v1001

X · Jan 6, 2025, 11:03 AM

[bitter quest]

Appreciate it

[paper parcel]

wonder why theropods never evolved to become fully aquatic like mammals, or any dinosaur for that matter.

[wind prairie]

I mean they've come fairly close
They've gotten about as aquatic as the most aquatic carnivoran mammals, that counts for something

[lofty creek]

deviantart died again lol

[paper parcel]

why aren't their any like, yknow, whale theropods or seal theropods, did they just use too much oxygen?

[wind prairie]

there are totally "seal theropods"

[paper parcel]

GET OU-

[wind prairie]

wdym they literally are lol

[coral forge]

those are seal food theropods not seal theropofs

[mental cloak]

Goes hard

[frail robin]

Where we sitting at?

[stiff osprey]

Dsungaripterid table

[paper parcel]

Anurognathidae my beloved

[sharp jackal]

Tapejaridae since iirc there's a lotta material

[hardy sentinel]

Would the broken jaw Allosaurus specimen promote the idea of Allosaurus group living since the jaw showed signs of healing over time?

[full lagoon]

Probably because marine reptiles got there first

[plush fossil]

Marine theropods or whatever would be a really interesting idea

[lost moon]

ctenochasmatids are goated

[stiff osprey]

More likely it's evidence of a croc style healing. The injury wasn't as devastating as depicted in the doc, it still had some functional teeth in the lower jaw

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/kosteusvaurio-gif-26428686

[sterile trail]

Tapejaridae

[valid sky]

Top middle

[frail robin]

Istiodactylidae?

[ashen wedge]

Pteranodontida Table for me

[paper parcel]

Would sauropod blood taste good irl

[tough parcel]

[paper parcel]

I wanna know

[tough parcel]

I...what's the criteria for "taste good"

[paper parcel]

Full of energy

[tough parcel]

I mean I don't think the blood is particularly special if that tells you anything

[hardy sentinel]

Call me basic but Azhdarkidae

[paper parcel]

Larger creatures have more nutrients in their blood or something according to a spec evo I watched, kinda why vampire bat populations exploded when they brought relatively massive farm animals

[ancient crystal]

I doubt that would make it taste much better, and I doubt humans which are not sanguivores would be able to actually get much from sauropod blood

[paper parcel]

Darn, guess I will have to evolve.

[tough parcel]

I mean

I also have to wonder if it's less the amount of nutrients in the blood but that there's more blood to go around in an animal 300x larger than a penguin (which iirc is the main "natural" food source for them)

[coral forge]

ngl dinosaur black pudding would be fire

[sudden wind]

Nyctosauridae or Pteranodontidae. If it is already taken, Tapejaridae or Ctenochasmatidae.

[green helm]

how heavy are teen and juviline argentinasaurus?

[last adder]

They forgot Thalassodromidae

[fossil ingot]

No idea
We only have 1 argent

[green helm]

anything about how fast giganotosaurus speed is?

[undone rapids]

Same as most other Giant Theropods that could just walk fast, within the 20-35 kph range depending on size probably

[runic heart]

https://x.com/Brontops_/status/1985294693953945727

Brontops (@Brontops_)

Like other Liaoning dinosaurs, Beipiaosaurus is known by a number of specimens, many in private hands. These specimens shows that it could have grown much larger than the holotype #theropoda #therizinosauria #beipiaosaurus source:douyin

X · Nov 3, 2025, 10:35 AM

How big exactly might beipi be?

[arctic crane]

How much argent material do we have?

[runic heart]

Not that much. Recent studies show it’s probably not as big as we thought. Idk how true this is, but Patagotitan is more likely to be larger.

[arctic crane]

Is it still the biggest known dinosaur or has some passed it? It sucks that these massive sauropods refused to fossilize well

[undone rapids]

Its probably still the biggest

[compact leaf]

Jim Kirkland has said that he’s seen an adult in the 6 meter long range

[runic heart]

I believe more estimates have it as smaller than we thought, which would make Patagotitan the largest based on reasonable material.

[runic heart]

Oh cool. Do they loose any feathers as they grow?

[compact leaf]

we have no clue, all of the adult specimens are undescribed or private

[arctic crane]

Wait we know some of the colors of edmontosaurus now that's so cool. Where did they find the blue pigment on the crest?

[runic heart]

Sucks. There’s got to be something done about private collections. People do have the right to a private collection imo, but there at least needs to be something that requires all private specimens to be publicly known or studied if requested.

[little mauve]

afaik nothings been done on pigmentation in edmontosaurus since melanin was detected in Dakota in 2015. The blue crest is just a meme

[arctic crane]

Damn lead ashtray again. Thanks though

[little mauve]

No problem, if this happens a lot always make sure to ask people for their sources

[tough parcel]

What? 💔 That's not happened at all lmao

@arctic crane it's still ~80t putting it at the largest known terrestrial animal

[runic heart]

Where’s Patagotitan at? Oh, and is maarapunisaurus still among the largest, even with one nonexistent vertebra?

[manic arch]

I wanted to ask, the dinosaur that acts like a weeping angel in tempus triad, what would it be? Ppl speculate it most likely is a herbivore, but its claws dont make sense to me as a defence mechanism

[manic arch]

Also I hate that becoming an acheoligisy, and palaeontologist you need to have the degree level of essentially a doctor, top marks, finish yr 12, bc wym i have to be great in school to be able to dig up dinos :(

[stiff osprey]

Looks like a therizino to me

[manic arch]

Yeah, im not sure how they say it is a herbivore though, those claws dont make sense as a defensive mechanism

[stiff osprey]

Well, it is slow moving, doesn't have any horns or spikes, has a small head and a gracile neck, it's basically defenseless except for the claws (and size)

[manic arch]

Oh wow okay, thats super cool

[stiff osprey]

Some paleontologists say the claws are too weak to be used for defense, but idk i'd rather get my claws broken than have a tyrannosaur eat my face

[manic arch]

I just never thought that a herbivore would have claws like a carni, i thought it would more have defensive spikes, id think itd be a take it not a 'i slap back'

[tough parcel]

Therizino evolved from carnivorous ancestors so it makes sense it'd keep some degree of "Slap back"

[manic arch]

Oh wow thats really fascinating, i wonder why they evolved to be herbivores instead of staying carnis

[tough parcel]

Don't need to chase a leaf down

[tulip dove]

And probably less competition

[tough parcel]

Evolution is the definition of "Take the easy way out"

[manic arch]

That is true ngl, but id rather hunt for food then be in constant fear of being mauled, but then again both herbs and carnis are just surviving haha, also, thoughts on the old ahh walking with dinosaurs movies? I watched them religiously as a kid whose special interest was dinos

[tough parcel]

The one where the dinosaurs talked?

Beautiful designs and cinematography

Horrible decision to make them talk

[balmy oyster]

Thankfully, there’s a version where the dinosaurs DON’T talk and, get this

It’s narrated by Benedict cumberbatch

[manic arch]

Nono, the old docco ones, they were amazing

[tough parcel]

Yea it's on YouTube

Unfortunately the IMAX editors didn't cut out the weird slow-mo scenes so it's kinda awkward at times

[balmy oyster]

There’s also I think yet another version where there isn’t even a narrator, but versions exist where the dinosaurs do not speak a single word and the movie is 100x better.

[stiff osprey]

these are the childhood of every dinosaur fan under 40, if you talk badly about them in any paleo community they instantly maul you

Luckily they are objectively really good

[tulip dove]

Despite being pretty outdated now, still one of the best dino docs out there

[manic arch]

They were my entire childhood, plus they went off actual facts at the time not just aesthetics of the dinos

[stiff osprey]

Falcon wtf is that reaction

[tough parcel]

Not entirely

Most of the time yea but there are some segments that, at the time, wasn't the best

[queen oar]

It's a Jerboadiver

[manic arch]

Yes that is true, but also not alot of information was available back them, so they had to imagine some things hahaha

[tough parcel]

Jerboadiver, please do not insult them as they are trying their best

[queen oar]

Strongest Allies of Super-Earth

[tough parcel]

Can't recall everything off the top of my head but one that stands out is that the Liopleurodon was too large even for then

Iirc their advisor insisted a sauropod vert was a Liopleurodon despite everyone else saying otherwise tho someone can Def correct me

[manic arch]

I have no clue honestly, but i def have to rewatch them haha, but i wanna get into dinos again

[tough parcel]

Nah that's valid, just wanted to mention it lol

Not tryna say you should never watch it

Speaking of, while not dinosaurs directly, Prehistoric Planet is releasing an Ice Age season on Nov. 26th if you are interested

[runic heart]

This is probably moa, yes? Titanis walks more on its toes I believe.

[manic arch]

Nono I understand hahaha, im always wanting to learn more about them in media!

[tough parcel]

It's a moa because no sickle claw and Aegyptornis/however you say it was leaked lol

[fierce quarry]

No Sicle claw either

[tough parcel]

Titanis and moa walk the same way

[fierce quarry]

I still hope for Titanis and/or Megalania do appear

[runic heart]

Still hope we get titanis. But so far we’ve got both elephant bird and moa confirmed.

Unless that info page got it wrong and it’s just moa.

[queen oar]

Me when the stupid bird that I hate ( not the Moa )

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-that-i-hate-bird-mario-gif-14971931919061508196

[charred hearth]

thoughts?

[zealous ravine]

Probably some of the best tyrannosaur phylogenies yet

Personally I find the right one more likely. It seems to mesh better with biogeography and stratigraphy

[runic heart]

Very interesting that bistahieversor is now albertosaurine

[little mauve]

Nanotyrannidae is a bad name, it should be dryptosauridae or nanotyrannosauridae

[fluid inlet]

Bro there are crocodile fans really claiming a purussaurs at 6 tons can take out a 10 ton trike on LAND

[winter marsh]

aegyptornis is elephant bird not moa

[tough parcel]

Same thing!

[winter marsh]

isnt moa dinornis (Giant Moa, idk about the others)

[runic heart]

They aren’t. Elephant birds lived in Madagascar, moa lived in New Zealand.

[tough parcel]

SAme thing because I said so

[winter marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/patrik-bottle-hat-gif-26508133

[winter marsh]

yeah bro and I can manhandle a bull

[thorn grove]

From what I recall it’s alligators that have good stamina

Crocs tend to build up lactic acid very quickly

Although Purussaurus was in Alligatoridae

[runic heart]

Is thoracosaurus the largest hell creek croc still? 9 meters for the absolute largest specimen?

[fossil ingot]

A Small Trike like a 5t Horridus
Possibly with an Ambush
But a Trike is a Trike

[tough parcel]

Saurian's mega-Thoraco is based on ??? because it's unreplicable if you actually reconstructed the animal

[runic heart]

Well does hell creek have any decently large sized crocs?

[balmy oyster]

Thoraco’s the only one
Borealo & the other one are sorta small

[dire zealot]

https://fxtwitter.com/jwescreenshots1/status/1985374584078504317?s=46&t=9Fi-DYYXsUFRZrPHX1qLKA

Such an icon in the franchise.
I was thinking if they ever portray it in a more scientifically accurate way they could had use quill feathers instead of a frill that raises up like a crest for communication and intimidation. And instead of venom they spit out bile like Fulmar birds do today

What you guys think of it speculative speaking?

JWEscreenshots (@JWEscreenshots1)

No wonder you’re extinct!

**💬 5 🔁 14 ❤️ 215 👁️ 3.0K **

▶ Play video

FxTwitter · Nov 3, 2025, 3:52 PM

[queen oar]

Pretty sure it's based on some big Thoracosaurus remains from Europe. But, from what i've tried to see... That's their only " support " to the size, as for remains in the actual Hell Creek:

Pretty much a load of nothing

[tough parcel]

The remains assigned to Thoraco in HC turn out an approximately 15 foot animal

Not small, but not 9 meters 😭

[queen oar]

Yup. Me when I'm the allegedly most scientifically-accurate dinosaur game ever ( A.K.A. I'm actually biased, like to cherry-pick and tend to lie a lot, because i'm bored )

Can we just comment that, If any other game tries to replicate the ecosystem and fauna of any mesozoic formation, no one is going to trust them because of Saurian?

[little mauve]

There are big maastrichtian thoracosaurs.... from NJ

[stiff osprey]

9 meters big, though?

[little mauve]

I doubt it but I'm not sure, never seen a good estimate but I know it has gotten mistaken for deinosuchus in the past. They're digging a lot right now at the Edelman Fossil Park in Mantua NJ so I expect there to be some new published material soon

[fluid inlet]

They do have good stamina , but against a Trike on Land they are not out stamina it and are getting out DPS

[bright veldt]

Crocodiles do not have good stamina, especially on land at large sizes.

[thorn grove]

Alligators have significantly better stamina than Crocodiles since they handle lactic acid buildup much better iirc

[scenic flame]

none compared to Homo.sapiens however

[queen oar]

Isn't there literally videos or cases where Alligators have been found pretty far from any body of water?

[fluid inlet]

That isn’t the topic ?

The topic is purussaurs being able to take a triceratops on land and the latter claimed purussaurs had great stamina, which I’m not sure about if or not but I’m pretty certain it would not have better stamina in combat on land vs a trike.

It’s a silly discussion either way tho.

[queen oar]

Who said that? Like, who made the claim first.

[thorn grove]

being an Alligatorid it's plausible it would have good stamina but idk enough about the phylogeny and whatever else to say

it beating a Triceratops is unrealistic, however

[charred hearth]

would emotional support arthopleura's be allowed in stores?

[jagged trellis]

i would hope so

[queen oar]

Yeah, no. Purussaurus beating a Triceratops is delusional.

[fluid inlet]

Echoes of extinction discord

[queen oar]

Tell them they are delusional.

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Beating a 5t Horridus with Ambush isn't THAT impossible

[warped peak]

In an ambush maybe but even then ehhhhh

Trike is pretty safe from a frontal ambush

[queen oar]

Nope, that is quite delusional. Plus, it's a scenario on land being implied, never that is going to happen

[warped peak]

I'd recommend avoiding the community there tbh, Islander isn't renowned for putting a lot of care into his stuff

[fluid inlet]

It’s just general chat , not the paleontology chat so I wouldn’t put no blame on islander.

Those guys were huge crocodilian fans , which I am too but I’m not delusional about my favorites.

[warped peak]

No I mean EOE in general

[fossil ingot]

I wouldb't say Ambushing a 5t Trike is delussional
Just very unlikely lol

[jagged trellis]

its not delu at all to say in an ambush puru could snag one, just not constant
on land is uh
another story
what is it genuinely gonna do there

[queen oar]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of Purussaurus brasiliensis is that it feeds on smaller genera and species of like Ground Sloths and maybe Proboscideans? Like, bro, that thing is not built to eat absurdly gigantic animals, regardless of what you might think.

[fluid inlet]

Yep, land was the debate which is indeed delusional.

How is it going to ambush Trike on land lol

[jagged trellis]

the mighty souls roll to cull the trike clearly

[queen oar]

Oh no, it's delusional, from the person who might think it, and the crocodile itself expecting any results Lol
Like, it's literally just this:

https://fxtwitter.com/silver_gold4/status/1953500670637519024

silver and gold (@silver_gold4)

New recording of a saltwater crocodile attacking a Bornean elephant bull

**💬 8 🔁 145 ❤️ 1.2K 👁️ 36.5K **

▶ Play video

FxTwitter · Aug 7, 2025, 4:57 PM

[warped peak]

Clearly it waits for sleep

[fossil ingot]

Nah
Game looks Cool and has Designs
Unless you mean another Echoes of Extinction
Which you prob do LOL

[fluid inlet]

Rare W srumis

[jagged trellis]

puru isn't 4x smaller than a 5 ton trike is the thing lmao
( that and puru is alr decently built)

[fossil ingot]

Given Saltie there is not even the same Size as the Elephant
While The Puru I am using to Ambush a 5t is the 6.6t Big one

[rancid dove]

💀

[balmy oyster]

Dang, is it that bad?

[fluid inlet]

I found the community and staff quite great tbh. Maybe it’s different from when you was first there but I got no complaints about either.

[fossil ingot]

Also
Pretty sure Niles or Salties are Recorded on Mortally Wonding Elephants lol
So is NOT impossible
Just again
Unlikely

[jagged trellis]

there is a joke in there somewhere
unlike the brain matter after that

[queen oar]

What would be the height and length of a 5 Ton Triceratops, approximately?

[thorn grove]

it's possible in the water but the scenario was a land battle in which case taking down a Triceratops (especially a large one) is less realistic

[fluid inlet]

The devs are really engaging and like furious is a 10/10 dev.

[fossil ingot]

Ehh
About the Size of Eo
So prob about 7m

[queen oar]

That is not happening

[fluid inlet]

It isn’t

[fossil ingot]

Obv
Max Prorsus and Horridus(taxing in Maximus)
Are Smaller Bigger than Puru

[warped peak]

Tbf. Nearly 7 ton. 10m+ Purru

[fossil ingot]

I mean
It Mortally Wounding the Trike is not off the question
Crocs have Mortally Wounded Elephants who are much bigger than said Croc
If the Ambush is well
Is not leaving off without injury, Trike is overall somewhat Safe thx to its Frill and Horns
But a Almost 7t Massive Caiman is no joke
On a Proper Land Battle Trikes wins tho yeah obviously

[warped peak]

The big thing is honestly the sheer size. If it wasn't a massive size discrepancy theres no chance

But there's like a 30% gap on a specialized ambush macropredator adapted to crush armored prey

[fluid inlet]

How much size reduction do we expect Puru to get anyways like is it staying 6.2 tons or whatever it is right now?

[warped peak]

This is basically the only animal outside of maybe Megalodon or Livy that has a chance to break a Triceratops skull

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind that if you want to get onto max sizes then trikes can get to 10+ tons, and crocodilians tend to fare poorly overall with land animals larger than themselves.

[warped peak]

Oh absolutely but I know 5 ton Trike was specified in all of this

If the Trike is even the same size theres no chance

[bright veldt]

Even then...eh. It can depend.

[fossil ingot]

Its size basically got bigger
From 6.4t to 6.6t
Without osteoderms

[fluid inlet]

No chance for the trike or for the Alligatorid ?

[fossil ingot]

This Pictures are so funny
Crocodile Flying goes brrr

[bright veldt]

A trike similar in size to itself is still alot, albeit it should also be said that ceratopsids probably didn't fare well in deep water. Their head orientation made it hard to stay above the water line if floating/submerged.

[balmy oyster]

I thought the argument was for on land

[fluid inlet]

It is

[bright veldt]

Oh on land then it's a complete joke yeah.

[charred hearth]

on the topic on crocodillians, would alamo still be able to raise its head / neck if a crocodilian was clamped onto it?

backstory given for the image
"A large Deinosuchus hatcheri is laying down on the bottom of a Late Cretaceous river 75 million years ago when he suddenly notices the sounds of an animal drinking. Haven't had anything to eat the past few days he decides to take the bait: without anything visible of him above the surface, the giant croc swims cautiously over the bottom of the river towards the source of sound. When he gets closer he sees the mouth of a not that large head breaking through the surface, probably that of a large hadrosaurid: perfect prey.
The Deinosuchus gets into position, prepares himself and then shoots towards his target, launching in the air and grabs it with the neck. To his own surprise the Deinosuchus doesn't return to the water but keeps gaining altitude...
To the the not that large head isn't a hadrosaurid attached but a giant Alamosaurus sanjuanensis. The sauropod scares and starts to raise his head with the predator still holding on to his neck. Time is now urging for the Deinosuchus to let go before the Alamosaurus goes into defense. A group of Gryposaurus notabilis in the shallow part of the river stare at the amazing spectacle but better pay some attention too for incoming danger."

[fossil ingot]

A Caiman with a Skull that is wide and about 145cm is no Joke.
Obv Trike wouldn't be prefer Fair.

On Land Trike Humbles bad yeah
I was Talking more so in an Ambush lol

[queen oar]

So, a reminder that, in both cases that we see Tyrannosaurus and Nanotyrannus interacting with Triceratops, both animals preferred to execute multiple bites on those animals before being able to take them down. This is generally implying that, these two carnivores having lived with Triceratops, and therefore having coexisted with the Triceratopsini enough to where these two species do know how to take it down effectively... Which seems to by exhausting it first, and likely feeding on animal while it was alive, or in the case of Tyrannosaurus, literally removing the head of the animal ( Although, how that seems to always happen after death, there's no way to know if Tyrannosaurus only did this to carcasses beginning their process of decomposition, and therefore there being less strain of the conjunctive tissues of the animal, making it easier to rip off the head, or if it did it right after the animal died )

This is not something a Caiman or Alligator ( only being mentioned as an example ) apply in the same fashion, and even if per say, Purussaurus had the advantage over the particular Triceratops individual... It probably would take more than one bite to actually kill it effectively, which after the first one... It probably won't even achieve a second

Maybe on the water, which I'm more towards agreeing, but on land... It's ridiculous

[bright veldt]

The puru bites the trike.....then what? It can't drag it to water. It's not tearing/crushing something that big.

[fluid inlet]

Holy paragraphs back to back lmao

[fossil ingot]

I mean
If its a 5t Trike
Is not Impossible to Mortally Wound it or maybe even Drag it a bit
Also, Doing Mortally Bite is def doing.
A Good Bite and some Thrasing will hurt alot

[fluid inlet]

The issue is the Purussaurus is going to take significant damage trying to accomplish that.

[fossil ingot]

We don't even know how Rex and Nano Fighted Trike
Ambush was Included Obviously
But saying "They exhausted trike first"
Is like
Based on Nothing LOL

[warped peak]

Depends on the size of the croc. I IMAGINE sauropods had strong necks

5 tons like big Deinosuchus is probably a bit much though. Maybe a 1 - 2 ton croc?

[charred hearth]

i know their not compareable but if a elephant can lift its trunk fully with a croc attatched, why not a large sauropod and its neck?

[bright veldt]

When it's that big no. It will hurt but like. 5 tons for a puru even that size is too much to properly manipulate. The second the trike gets away the puru is basically at its mercy. It can just walk away or decide to just get to its rear and start swinging. Again, crocodilians that big on land were probably pathetic in terms of any land athleticism.

[fossil ingot]

I am talking ambush wise
Puru isn't Ambush Forward Straight to its Horns Lol

[warped peak]

Elephant trunks are basically pure muscle, and their head is like a fifth of their body weight and already extremely awkward to maneuver. They also routinely haul and toss large things with their trunk and tusks, this is just a weird shaped log in practice

Sauropods presumably didn't

[fossil ingot]

I never said a Land Fight
Hell, I even said is not Fair on Land
Puru may have evolved to support is weight
But is not agile enough to fight a Trike on Land LOL
IF The Ambush was effective enough and the Trike gets injured alot( a 5t Trike)
It will likely just try get away rather than Continue to Engage and risk off more Injury

[queen oar]

So, we have Kelsey, and the Montana Dueling Dinosaurs with multiple theropod bites distributed on the body... And we don't know?

I mean, maybe if you can't imagine how that would occur in the context of a interaction between prey and predator, or you can't imagine it in the context of a " Fight "

I'm sorry, but as far as i know, the act itself of predating on something, implies in some matter trying to avoid potential injury to yourself, while at the same time assuring that injuries are being applied to your prey subject. In some cases, yes, it's more fast, but in Tyrannosaurs, it's definetly slow

[fluid inlet]

I just don’t see how it’s going to ambush it, even if triceratops is drinking water and puru tried to ambush it ain’t it going to triceratops strong points the horns

[warped peak]

In all seriousness, "how big a crocodile could Alamo lift" is genuinely an interesting question and would be a fun biomechanics paper

[fossil ingot]

That the Trike and Nanuq landed Fights doesn't mean
"I am going to Exhaust you"
Atleast not the way you are implying

[bright veldt]

I think it really depends from a water ambush. On one hand, a triceratops getting bit on the head isn't that signficiant, but at the same time a puru is biting the snout not the horns. The trike is probably still too big to be dragged but at the same time if it does get dragged a little or stumble into said water it might be in trouble for previously said reasons.

[balmy oyster]

Why are we talking about nanuq and tyrannosaurs wasn’t this a discussion if trike could kick a puru’s ahh on land

[bright veldt]

It reminds me of a video I saw of a large crocodile biting the head of an african buffalo, about its size, managed to drag it into the water, but after a struggle it let go and the buffalo survived, albeit injured and exhausted.

[fluid inlet]

Triceratops is not necessarily that close to the ground but I reckon its center of gravity is even more in trike favor as well ?

[warped peak]

Clearly Triceratops was hunting the Alamosaurus, because yknow, herbivores aren't afraid of a little meat 🫦

[balmy oyster]

All trike has to do is point its horn at puru and it’s gonna be fine

[fluid inlet]

When Alamosaurus is in musk and triceratops gets too close 💔

[fossil ingot]

The Tyrannogator Slams all obv

[warped peak]

Insert Hodari art here

[fossil ingot]

Puru when A Big Trike drags it to Land:

[fluid inlet]

I feel like I never see artworks of sauropods and ceratopsians in confrontation

And that’s unfortunate

[warped peak]

The word musth now triggers Hodari PTSD

[fossil ingot]

Cope Jumpscare

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-ready-dr-facilier-gif-17263154240560718946

[fluid inlet]

Is that the guy that recently did the mammoth thing?… lol

[fossil ingot]

Puru when a Sloth Big Spawns:

I wonder if Puru would had gotten Bigger had Massive Sloths like this live with it
Puru Already dwarfs its Ecosystem anyways
A Sloth the size of it would had been cool

[warped peak]

Puru when the 10 ton Eremo freak decides its pond is its new bathroom (we have evidence of a local extinction event caused by ground sloths defecating in a watering hole until it was polluted)

[rancid dove]

https://tenor.com/view/assassins-creed-what-sorcery-is-this-what-is-this-sorcery-magic-gif-25043858

[fossil ingot]

[jagged trellis]

ik that dw
unlike the poor tickle chickens

[fossil ingot]

My Fav 10t Eremo freak

[jagged trellis]

sorry on ping but do show me this( like paper and such) because that is
what

[warped peak]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=au4klKI9rG4

https://tarpits.org/stories/death-pooping

[jagged trellis]

a pbs eons i missed???
shame on me zamn
also thanks

[fossil ingot]

Lol
Weird way to go

[fluid inlet]

So they died like Bruce Lee

[warped peak]

What the hell happened to Bruce Lee

[fluid inlet]

Death by poop

[queen oar]

That's new

[warped peak]

Don't worry, my Zygolophodon will play similar to this!

[fossil ingot]

LMAO

[queen oar]

...what species?

[warped peak]

• Swamp Rot: While Wet, increases the Hunger and Thirst of unallied creatures nearby by 150%. Debuff is halved for creatures in combat.

Zygolophodon borsoni, the probable largest Proboscidean

[fluid inlet]

… holy hell….

[queen oar]

So, Borson's Mastodon. The Mystery Loot Box Mammutidae

[fossil ingot]

The Fatty..

[charred hearth]

how many terrestersial mammals made it past
10 tons
15 tons
20 tons

[warped peak]

The 17-18 ton Unit

[fluid inlet]

wtf is this

[fossil ingot]

Zygolophodon borsoni

[fluid inlet]

Those tusk are ridiculous.

[warped peak]

They are! They weigh several hundred kilograms.

[charred hearth]

how many birds could sit on them?

[jagged trellis]

atleast 4.37

[warped peak]

20 tons, none
15 Tons - Palaeoloxodon, Paraceratherium, Zygolophodon, Dzungariotherium

[queen oar]

Mammut is not a good reference for the body

[fossil ingot]

Parecer representing

[warped peak]

What do you mean mammut isnt a good reference for the body

The animal is very possibly Mammut directly. And if not is the direct ancestor to Mammut. The issue is the Genera are so similar we struggle to tell them apart

[trim rune]

Hi, I'm new.

[fluid inlet]

Hi new

[warped peak]

Hi new I'm Wes DAMNIT

[deft iron]

hi, im new too!

[trim rune]

Does anyone speak Portuguese? Brazil

[fluid inlet]

Obrigado , as far as I’m going.

[warped peak]

#português

[fossil ingot]

No idea
I only speak Spanish or english

[proud prawn]

why does this look familiar 👀

[trim rune]

?

[fossil ingot]

Mmm Yes why
Totally didn't stole it....
Yeah no, impossible....

[proud prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-impossible-marvel-shocked-gif-15104180

[queen oar]

So, the particular reason I said " Borson's Mastodon ", it's because it's not diagnostic with Zygolophodon, Mammut is exclusive to North America, not only because of fossil evidence, but because we know that genetically, they are exclusive to North America, since the only specimens who share similar genetic materail are only present there.

Borson's Mastodon can't be assigned to Mammut, because as far as it's known there's no genetic evidence found on it, like Mitochondrial DNA, and given how Mammut is exclusive to North America, that doesn't seem to be happening at any time. Mammut americanum and Mammut pacificum have pretty specific body anatomy, which is not good for. Borson's Mastodon also has longer forelimbs than Mammut americanum itself.

[tribal sandal]

For ease of moderation please keep this chat to English only, feel free to use #português #español

[warped peak]

Luckily, the reconstruction here is based off of Zygolophodon and Mastodon in tandem, which are incredibly well understood taxa still, and as such the overall anatomy of Borsoni isn't exactly a huge mystery beyond exact Phylogenetic placement

The musculature side view is built off Borsoni directly.

[queen oar]

Doesn't address anything. And I think my point still stands, it's not diagnostic with each with the two, it should at least look a bit unique, or reflect what we have found. Short forelimbs? Not it, chief.

If you plan to actually reflect it's appearance, consider this:

https://youtu.be/1qxmL7oGjmQ?t=36

Different specimen, not Borson's Mastodon, it's also from North America... But at least it's closer than M. americanum and Zygolophodon.

[warped peak]

which is exactly what the reference I presented did.

I've discussed this rigorously with experts, and I'm not the one who made these references.

[queen oar]

Fair enough, I thought it was shorter because of my impression purely. So, I believe it's only fair to give you my apologies.

[warped peak]

I respect that and I accept your apology.

Only the best for Borsoni

[compact leaf]

mastodon get way too slept on

[onyx pier]

Yesss it does 😭😭

It’s very unfortunate it’s such a cool prehistoric mammal

[charred hearth]

what would be the closest to 20?

[warped peak]

Paracer, followed by probably Zygo than Palaeolox, then Dzungario

[charred hearth]

oh btw, whatever happened to 20 ton paleo?

[warped peak]

It was lost a long time ago and measured in a defunct system that has no verifiable integrity

Like using "palms" basically

[bright veldt]

How big is namadicus now then? I know there's other individuals besides the potential big one.

[charred hearth]

isnt it like, 16 - 18 tons?

[queen oar]

P. antiquus is heavier than P. namadicus, right?

[warped peak]

Around 17 tons

[bright veldt]

y do all 3 biggest mammals max at that number

[charred hearth]

its a sign

[warped peak]

Because none of them have a lot of available info on their largest specimens really

Dzungariotherium potentially also is 17 - 18 tons but has pretty little info

[queen oar]

*land mammals

[queen oar]

how many remains we have of that guy?

[warped peak]

Not entirely sure

The estimate is unreliable moreso because it also dramatically reduces other Paraceratheres. IIRC the paper was like 14 Tons for Big Paracer but 21 tons for Dzungario?

[queen oar]

Weird, they wouldn't have essentially the same body plan?

[warped peak]

They would. One maybe being a bit heavier built, but there's been no other work on any of it since so shrug

[queen oar]

wdym? There's something?

[warped peak]

http://www.rhinoresourcecenter.com/pdf_files/165/1657655752.pdf

[plush fossil]

Why does pots kaiwhekea have lips? Did it have that in life? I see people saying it's innacurate

[queen oar]

Depends on who you ask. But Plesiosaurs seem to be ancestrally lipless

I wouldn't think so, myself.

[plush fossil]

I see, thanks!

[hazy basalt]

Because its relatives all have huge interlocking teeth, imagine trying to pucker a mouth like this.

[wind prairie]

is it??

[bright veldt]

There's no reason to suspect it. Plesiosaurs primarily feed through lateral strikes and often have very interlocked teeth, both traits that would actively hinder lips. Kaiwhekea is less dramatic in these regards, but aristonectines only appeared in the last ~10 million years of the Mesozoic and there's no reason to suspect they got super derived with reevolved lips super quickly or anything.

[compact leaf]

lips would also probably be an active detriment to the way aristonectines sift fed

[queen oar]

Realistically, a lot of ocean animals don't seem to be lipless, and seems to be something that occurs mostly on in-land water environments ( Like rivers, lakes, ponds, etc ). Even by these arguments, it's like, not really a lot of unique things, or would imply that Plesiosaurs were different in a few ways than most animals, rather than lipless. Which it isn't unusual either

I'd suspect that, given how a lot of marine animals have it, it might be related to how they design their hydrodynamic profile, having a lot of exposed teeth poking out at the front, doesn't tend to help with that a lot.

[compact leaf]

in plesiosaurs it’s by and large because they literally couldn’t fit their teeth inside of lips lol

[queen oar]

That just means they have different oral configurations, not...

Lipless Oral Configurations

[craggy trench]

Perhaps
Perhaps not

[bright veldt]

??? nothosaurus and plesiosaurs have a history of having gigantic interlocking teeth that make lips impractical ONTOP of a lateral striking-style feeding strategy, which lips would be actively detrimental in. This is likely why crocodilians are lipless for example.

[queen oar]

So, just so I can understand you, do you think that Kaiwhekea with it's really small teeth ( Probably the minimal size of them in Plesiosaurs ) would be lipless because of the argument you made?

[warped peak]

no

Pretty hard to sift sand when lips are in the way

[queen oar]

Hmmm... If only there was a Extant animal with lips who showcases similar behaviour... hmmm...

[bright veldt]

Not to mention, as of said before, even if there is no advantage I don't think there'd be a reason to suddenly evolve it back given Aristonectines were a recent and late evolution, ontop of kaiwhekea being a basal member of the clade anyway.

[craggy trench]

Are you referring to gray whales?

[queen oar]

So, are you advocating that marine animals, extinct or extant, with interlocking teeth from minimal ( miniscule ) to maximum ( gigantic ) proportions should be lipless?

Because, I can see a very bad way of using that sorta of argument. Not that I'm really interested on changing your current perspective

[bright veldt]

I have no idea what you're going on about because you are really generalizing things here.

This thing is not having lips.

They're so interlocked and facing very laterally.

[craggy trench]

Any benefits of lips in that scenario are not worth
Ouchie my gums
(Well not gums but yanno, meant for funny more than anything)

[bright veldt]

I'm not suggesting just interlocking means liplessness because that's not true.

[queen oar]

Kinda of the point really. Because I want to see how further you can go with the idea, without any context from anything else. Anyways, how would you reconstruct this animal?

Genuine curiosity, not in any way trying to imply anything, I think it's important to discuss it's potential life-appearance afterall...

[bright veldt]

There's a reason why I specified lateral feeding, because most cetaceans don't do that.

Some do that, which is probably why you see the extremely toothy south asian river dolphins, but it's not common.

[queen oar]

I mean, Sperm Whales do? And their mandible teeth, since really that's the only teeth they have now, aren't exactly all different from our Acrophyseter friend... Also to Zygophyseter... Livyatan...

But not the point, am I right? How would you reconstruct them?

[foggy river]

carefully

[bright veldt]

Sperm whales don't laterally strike at prey. They're suction feeders. They don't use their teeth in feeding at all.

[charred hearth]

isnt it mostly for grip on their prey?

[bright veldt]

I mean it probably helps if the prey is large but their teeth aren't used in feeding otherwise. Its most likely purpose is when raking other individuals, especially males.

[queen oar]

I was sure there was something about Sperm Whales eating Sharks somewhere, but it seems that I cannot find access to the original source of those claims, which means I have no argument...

I admit defeat

||( Even if I'm not convinced )||

[charred hearth]

do we have any remaining juvie trex specimens?

[craggy trench]

We do
Most are unpublished though iirc

[bright veldt]

I mean sperm whales eat a lot of things including sharks. But that's not a common part of their diet. They're squid specialists. Even with the macropredatory varieties they're hunting large prey, not laterally striking at fish.

[charred hearth]

one may specalize in kung-fu but also may participate in street fighting style, boxing and wrestling but does not detract or deminish the specality in said specialist

[queen oar]

What I'm finding hard to believe in your statement, primarily focusing on the aspect of lateral strikes, and your analogy to Crocodilians... Even if this was a necessity for a lot of mechanisms associated to the animal's jaws to function, it kinda of doesn't mean much for their in-life appearance. I think even being insistent on the Crocodile analogy, it's being a bit selective

This is not to say that your statement isn't true. But rather, what I'm referring to it's to what I've previously said: Most marine animals have some form of extra-oral tissue

Crocodilians and Plesiosaurs wouldn't share similar kinda of water environments. Ocean Environments are more variable, due to where that specific part of the ocean is located, what kinda of temperatures it reaches, the specific amount of contents found in the water, and other factors. This is true to Crocodilians too, but not only their water habitats are more limited in size, because simply: The Ocean is too big

But it's less likely they would had to face the same amount of variability, and if they did, by quantity that is, it would probably be very different from what Plesiosaurs would had to commonly face. This is more to say that I think how their Hydrodynamic profile is shaped wouldn't be reflective of what Plesiosaurs would have... And being lipless certainly also has a effect onto that.

[pseudo crane]

Has anyone’s known that Tyrannosaurus Rex 70% Bigger yes I’m not joking some suggest that most Trex Fossils were Adolecent and if this is true then Adults would be humongous

[charred hearth]

i think someone lied to you

[bright veldt]

Why do you keep bringing the environment up? This is nothing to do with anything. There's not many tetrapods that have the feeding style I'm refering to, hence why I'm bringing it up as likely significant because it's a trend we see in such lipless animals. No duh most marine animals have extra-oral tissue, most animals in general have extra-oral tissue.

[normal compass]

most rexes that you would encounter if you go 66 mil years wouldnt be near the size of the current fossils

[charred hearth]

why do i feel like none of this is right

[bright veldt]

It's because of study that basically asked "Ok, hypothetically, how big would a rex get biomechanically?". It has no actual merits in how big trex actually got.

[pseudo crane]

“If this is true” I do not also know

[queen oar]

Because it's still relevant? And I don't think you really gave a answer to what I said, no offense, of course.

[charred hearth]

d'arc you need to get this w because you've lost every debate today

[normal compass]

They could be smaller or bigger, but I am leaning into the smaller side since that size you brought would need an insane input of energy

[queen oar]

There's no shame on taking Ls. If you engage with other people on the expectation of winning... You already lost

[bright veldt]

I just don't understand. It's not relevant because you're kinda just brute-forcing correlation. No duh most marine animals have extraoral tissue because most animals in general do. Liplessness is more specific and turns out, hey, most of the examples of lipless animals are aquatic species that laterally strike at fast slippery prey like fish.

[charred hearth]

to loose is too win but winning is too loose

shaskepere shakes in his historically accurate maryjanes when he hears my poetry and philosophy

[queen oar]

So, let me try to put it simply... Why do you think that most marine animals have lips? Answer that, because I also don't know... I'm quite the Low IQ specimen

[bright veldt]

beause most animals do? It's the default condition?

[queen oar]

But why?

[bright veldt]

This is mostly in relation to tetrapods cause with fish their skull structures are weird and varied.

[charred hearth]

its a defualt you actively have to evolve not to have

[queen oar]

But if it became common in most animals... It would had to be developed at some place first... So, why?

[charred hearth]

are you asking why lips evolved??

[bright veldt]

He is and I don't know the answer to that.

[queen oar]

I mean, i was originally just asking why most Marine Mammals have it? Which then he said, most animals have it, so I had to ask why.

[normal compass]

When it comes to marine animals having lips it mostly serve essential functions related to feeding, sensation, and communication or like sound production

[queen oar]

Reasonable

[normal compass]

But It is not entirely accurate to say that most marine animals have lips in the way humans or land mammals do though

[queen oar]

I mean, I was thinking it may have to do with their hydrodynamic profile? Since most of marine animals, even those without lips, kinda of try to achive sorta of a " Smooth Body shape ", without extreme or sudden differences in shape on their body... But, that is not entirely true, when I think about it... Unfortunately for me.

[normal compass]

The presence and form of lips vary widely depending on the species and their evolutionary adaptations, so like I said it depends.

[cyan fable]

9.4 tons meraxes is real?

[zealous ravine]

Undescribed, so treat any estimate with a truckload of salt. It’s probably not that big

[cyan fable]

Oh thanks

[balmy oyster]

the person who measured this "9.4 ton meraxes" also oversized it as well

the larger specimen would've been smaller

[opaque kayak]

What's scary is that there is a 10 ton eremotherium, which probably means that by chance there was probably a eremotherium larger then any land animal alive right now 💔

Why is a sloth of all things bigger then every living land animal now 😔

[coral forge]

Most animals have legs therefore snakes have legs

Mosasaurs almost definitely had lips because most if not all squamates have lips and mosasaurs wouldn't have had enough of a reason to get rid of them
Plesiosaurs wouldn't really have a use for lips considering theyre mainly used for hydrating teeth and to help with chewing, which is useless when you are surrounded by water from the moment you are conceived to the moment you die and don't chew along with the fact that the tooth and jaw structure of many plesiosaurs simply dont support lips
Idk about ichthyosaurs tho

[scenic flame]

You just immediately contradicted your own line of logic with the next message

[stiff osprey]

well it was a dumb line of logic so that's good

[grizzled depot]

Is Campto oversized in this game

[stiff osprey]

No it gets bigger in real life

[outer tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/pinecones-sid-the-sloth-ice-age-pinecone-gif-11577077201370866719

[coral forge]

how?

[last adder]

Alright really really important question..

Which extinct animal (regardless of era or time period) had the biggest bum relative to body size?

Doesn't necessarily have to take soft tissue into account, either.

[queen oar]

The question of all times, truly