paleontology

[lofty creek]

or at least make the two sub based on S. dongi and Y.hepingensis

[undone rapids]

Next month is just the SVP conference for papers, it'll probably be published sometime after that

[runic heart]

Oh interesting. But let me ask you, what even is allosauridae. It’s just allosaurus, is it not?

[lofty creek]

I'm even worrying about if that could exist longer

[undone rapids]

sometimes asfaltovenator is allosauridae, but mostly yes its just allosaurus. If saurophaganax is again a thing then maybe it too

[runic heart]

So if allosaurus is its own thing, how might that relate to allosauroidea as a whole? Did asfaltovenator or something similar just split into metriacanthosauridae and allosaurus?

[undone rapids]

Merticanthosaurs are older than asfalto. They're the oldest carnosaur group we know off iirc

[runic heart]

Really… so metris branched off to allosaurus, and then later carchar’s? Neat.

[undone rapids]

I think allo ancestor and metri+carch ancestor probably split off earlier maybe around early jurrassic. Theres also other allosauroid groups like piatnitzkysaurids which are also pretty old iirc

[normal tendon]

Anyone that can help me with making a mod?

Just dm me if you can!

[plush fossil]

Cuz metri was paid for

[queen vortex]

Allo mentioned!?

[rancid dove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyA9ElRFrgk

[plush fossil]

Yeah I watched that one, was cool

[fossil ingot]

The Humble Fragilis been the largest Allo species

[runic heart]

Wait a minute. Are megalosauroids derived from early carnosaurs, or monolophosaurs?

[wind prairie]

which herbivores in hell creek would be most likely to go after water plants?

[tough parcel]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/30/science/nanotyrannus-tyrannosaurus-rex-fossil.html

FOOOOR SCI-COMM!

[runic heart]

ITS BAAACK!!!

[tough parcel]

For those w/o access

[wind prairie]

FULL PAPER IN 13 MINUTES
THIS IS NOT A DRILL
THE DWARF TYRANT RETURNS TO SCIENCE

[stray wren]

There's two of them now

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-for-sale-run-gif-10588693342246728045

[craggy trench]

Edmontosaurus be like

[tough parcel]

https://youtu.be/I7Ht53m757I?si

[craggy trench]

https://tenor.com/view/megamind-metroman-my-death-was-greatly-exaggerated-gif-19307347

[balmy oyster]

https://x.com/JGN_Paleo/status/1983927390503129370?t=sGOzJVfrnzmGfLVw205mQg&s=19
https://x.com/JGN_Paleo/status/1983927421503242478?t=sGOzJVfrnzmGfLVw205mQg&s=19
https://x.com/JGN_Paleo/status/1983927494026854525?t=sGOzJVfrnzmGfLVw205mQg&s=19

Dr. James G. Napoli (@JGN_Paleo)

And finally, the growth record. I'll keep it short and sweet - the Dueling Dinosaurs tyrannosaur was an adult when it died. And an accessory sinus in its palatine bone, shared only with the Nano type specimen, is the apomorphy we needed to identify it as an adult Nanotyrannus.

X · Oct 30, 2025, 4:02 PM

Dr. James G. Napoli (@JGN_Paleo)

But there was one more fun wrinkle. We found that the Nanotyrannus specimen "Jane" was different, in many ways, from the DD Nano and the Nano type specimen. We had trouble believing it at first, but the conclusion was inescapable - it was another species!

X · Oct 30, 2025, 4:02 PM

Dr. James G. Napoli (@JGN_Paleo)

We created a new phylogenetic data matrix to figure out the interrelationships of tyrannosaurs, and found that Nanotyrannus is a member of a very early-diverging group of tyrannosaurs.

X · Oct 30, 2025, 4:02 PM

Welcome back, nano. And welcome also, nano 2.

[undone rapids]

Twitter thread from Author for people with no Twitter accounts : https://twitter-thread.com/t/1983926921898660347

[vestal marlin]

https://allthatsinteresting.com/edmontosaurus-fossil

GUYS!!!!! SOME DINOSAURS HAD HOOVES! I know the devs are super busy but it would be so cool to see these details in game.

[ashen ether]

Didn’t they have spines too from what was mentioned

[lofty creek]

Vive la Nanotyrannus

[vestal marlin]

AND a fleshy crest

[ashen ether]

Lite I saw that from the Dino guy or Dino fax on YouTube talking about this

[ionic crescent]

Comb 🐔

[balmy oyster]

It’s more comparable to things like rhino’s but still hoove-like regardless

[runic rover]

THE NANOTYRANNUS IS REALL

[balmy oyster]

the “comb” on recent interpretations for annectens are entirely speculative, as the specimen does not preserve any head crest.

[ionic crescent]

ah nono, i don't mean from the cast i mean from the regalis we actually know of

Was just pointing that it was more comblike if anything

[vestal marlin]

Pretty sure it came up on my Google feed. But damn it was the best Google suggested click 😂

[vestal marlin]

Articles call them crests BUT we got fleshy bits and spines! It's just literally the coolest thing to see since I've loved dinosaurs from birth

[ionic crescent]

I'm aware, we are close to giant turkey 🦃

It has a chicken like comb, I do visualize it with caruncle on the face for display purposes and very very marked meaty bits on the neck that could pop and display flashy colors as cassowary do

[hardy sentinel]

WHAT?! WHAT HAPPENED

[runic rover]

It's much better if I just link

[ionic crescent]

is a dryptosaur now, in shorts

[runic rover]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/30/science/nanotyrannus-tyrannosaurus-rex-fossil.html

[vestal marlin]

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3536
Actual research paper for those interested!

[empty socket]

THE ONE PIECE IS RRREEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[ionic crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/turkey-gobble-gobble-gobble-bird-gif-7138627102098790530

[wind prairie]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/265428919006527499/1433486775656906905/image0.gif

[vestal marlin]

My mind is racing now, like which other herbivorous dinosaurs had tapir like hooves and spikes and crests. It's just so damn neat

[wind prairie]

well that's not confirmed

[fierce quarry]

I really hope to see either Megalania or a Terror Bird in Prehistoric Planet's new season

[ionic crescent]

i said in shorts lol

in shorts looks like one

With dryp and apa being close relatives

[fervent raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-satoru-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-8872922284431337007
how it feels to be a day 1 nano fan rn

[wind prairie]

that's just a theory right now- All we know is that it's not a close relative of t rex but it could be something else
I personally do believe it though

[stray saddle]

Nanotyranus is real

[trim bluff]

2 SPECIES?!

[lofty creek]

yes

[tough parcel]

Unstudied or private collection minus one (Teen Rex) who is currently being prepped

[undone rapids]

Baby Bob i think is one. Tinker is another, though it and Teen rex are decently big

[undone rapids]

Yeah that's teen rex, it also proves that Rexes were eating plants from time to time

[queen oar]

I have nothing to apologize

I always believed

[runic rover]

Rocky

[queen oar]

Was the Paper already published? And if it was, is it open access?

[fossil ingot]

Not yet

[runic rover]

Just the 2 main scientists against Nano said "ok it's real now"

[tardy dune]

So nano is a dryptasaurid?

[queen oar]

Who?

[undone rapids]

Thomas Carr

[undone rapids]

The family name is "Nanotyrannids", but yes

[prisma hawk]

All paleontologists are splitters now, every fossil is a new species

[tardy dune]

So nano came from east america as western interior seway shrunk

[trim bluff]

Splitters or quitters

[prisma hawk]

I haven’t read the paper so I’ll withhold judgement, I’ve just been noticing a pattern for, like the last decade+

[queen oar]

" Utter Splitting Nonsense! " ( i responded to the wrong comment, fu-%$ )

[hardy sentinel]

The hell creek has been going wild this month

First Edmontosaurus gets a makeover and now Nanotyrannus is valid?

[queen oar]

If only it could've been better

better than that. Technically Dakotaraptor already exists, it just has some bits that do not belong to it, and likely different appearance?

[prisma hawk]

I give it 6 months before Nanotyrannus is invalid again

[tardy dune]

We need more 10+ t toro spesimins trust

[queen oar]

Yeah, we need more Torosaurus specimens, tired of Triceratops getting all the highlights

[hardy sentinel]

The arms don't lie

[prisma hawk]

I’m 38 I’ve seen this show like 5 times already. Trust me some paper will invalidate it again.

[balmy oyster]

Granted we do have actual evidence for splitting now, and only GSP is doing it based on personal vibes.

[hardy sentinel]

Mfs when science sciences

[queen oar]

tbh, if the " Albertosaurus " libratus and " Tyrannosaurus " bataar guy just admitted defeat, yeaaaah... Not gonna happen, chief

[hardy sentinel]

Anyways, petition to revert Tyrannosaurus back to Manospondylus

[balmy oyster]

We have genuinely way too many things proving nano isn’t similar to tyrannosaurus, from proper osteology confirming maturity, hypothetical limb reduction if a juvenile proven impossible, different alveoli & tooth count to tyrannosaurus…the list just goes on.

[fossil ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJw1WUXIFG8&feature=youtu.be

[hardy sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/jalen-hurts-jalen-hurts-meek-mill-i-used-to-pray-for-times-like-this-gif-13709870523385828441

[balmy oyster]

Carr admitting to at least lancensis being valid…that’s how you know this is BIG.

[hardy sentinel]

Through confirmation bias and cherry picking studies, I am finally right

[balmy oyster]

Maybe you should do that first…? 😭 you definitely haven’t been “withholding judgement” lmao

[little mauve]

Very cool stuff, can't wait for the paper to dive into the possible Appalachian origins of Nanotyrannus

[prisma hawk]

I think skepticism should be the default position

[little mauve]

I'd say skepticism was the default position for most tyrannosaur experts like Holtz, Carr, etc. This is just a major major refutation of that position

[fossil ingot]

https://vxtwitter.com/Paleojim/status/1983942998019932522

Jim Kirkland (@Paleojim)

Lindsay Zanno's North Carolina Museum of Natural History's team under Napoli,s direction are in an ideal position to take over the Utahraptor Megablock Project! I'm hoping she is funded to cover the cost of moving the fossil to North Carolina. @JeremyBRoberts

QRT: JGN_Paleo
If it weren't for Lindsay's hard work, grit, and determination, the Dueling Dinosaurs may never have made it to a museum collection. Our field owes her, and everyone who worked with her to bring these specimens into the public trust, a debt of gratitude.

vxTwitter / fixvx · Oct 30, 2025, 5:04 PM

[balmy oyster]

Dude if you even only just skimmed through some of the things said on Twitter (ie snippets of the paper & palaeontologists discussing it in detail) you’d know that being skeptical about it can only get you so far

I can be a skeptical person too but there’s not just much reason to be skeptical about this anymore.

[versed karma]

so wait confirm something, nano was apart of hell creek right?

[little mauve]

Yes

[tough parcel]

Being skeptical for a good reason is smart

Being skeptical to be skeptical is not

[hardy sentinel]

The pattern being a mix of us not knowing what is a Nano and what is a baby Rex, now we got a good Nano skeleton

[prisma hawk]

Yeah I just said I haven’t read the paper yet and until I do I’ll remain skeptical

[balmy oyster]

Not just a “good” skeleton, but like…practically the BEST outcome we could’ve gotten EVER

[hardy sentinel]

The hell creek is firing nothing but gold rn with it's preservation

[versed karma]

damn that place is really living up to its name lol

[balmy oyster]

Oh wait right the paper isn’t out yet, I thought it was mb

[little mauve]

Imagine if we had the resources and interest to study every formation as much as the HC has

[hardy sentinel]

I hope we find a Rex mummy one day

[balmy oyster]

Hell creek is genuinely just the best formation ever 😭

ALSO the lance too since actually a lot of things like the new edmonto mummy & nanotyrannus specimens are known from the lance formation. Both these two formations are incredible

[runic rover]

Can I use this on Reddit?

[hardy sentinel]

You've heard the teeth lost as they grow argument, now wait until they argue they lose VERTEBRAE when they grow

[little mauve]

Two species of nanotyrannus is easily the most 🤨 detail released so far but underestimating diversity at the end of the Cretaceous seems to be a developing pattern

[queen oar]

a repeating pattern, tbh

[balmy oyster]

The paper will likely cover this more in-depth, since atm all we know is the skulls of holotype/Bloody Mary differ from the skull of Jane

[hardy sentinel]

Also Nanotyrannus having a hint of a vestigial third finger is prolly a good indication it isn't just a baby

[little mauve]

Yeah definitely want to dig into the paper for that too

[queen oar]

@balmy oyster You know what paper we need now?

[tough parcel]

Wow this paper is good, quite interesting

I cant believe the post credit tease of JP3 Spinosaurus

[balmy oyster]

We got edmonto mummy, nano confirmation

Now…it’s time…

MPM VP 6841 toro. It’s your time to shine.

[hardy sentinel]

Nanotriceratops

[queen oar]

" Agathaumas " paper

[hardy sentinel]

Y'all I'm genuinely so hyped about this. The hell creek officially has a small Tyrannosaur

[undone rapids]

Two of em

[runic rover]

Waiting for the colossal carcharodontosaurid from Brazil

[balmy oyster]

Kelsey is weird too we should look at that specimen again

even better is apparently the specimen must’ve clobbered a Nanotyrannus because reported nano teeth were found all around the specimen.

[ancient crystal]

Clearly tyrannosaurus was just the first known animal to do this

[hardy sentinel]

Do your thing Wikipedia

[mellow fjord]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Paleontology/comments/qul1lc/off_the_wall_hypothesis_dueling_dino_theropod_aka/

[little mauve]

There was a blog for a few years proposing the same thing

I think the author even published an abstract on it

[hardy sentinel]

Where do we think new Nano places now? It's got hints of a vestigial third finger

[little mauve]

I think that lends credence to the dryptosaur hypothesis

[hardy sentinel]

Jane is a confirmed Nanotyrannus too now. We've got 3 confirmed Nano specimens

[runic aspen]

Also the fact that the specimen from the "dueling dinosaurs" was apparently somewhere around 20 years old when it died.

[runic heart]

Seeming more and more likely….

[runic aspen]

Nanotyrannus came back with a vengeance.

[runic heart]

And better yet, it might be a dryptosaurid.

[runic aspen]

The only confirmed young Tyrannosaurus we have now is Chomper apparently. So we basically have no ideia how Tyrannosaurus ontogeny works anymore.

[undone rapids]

There's a few more like Baby bob and such. but too many are in private hands and can't be researched

[final stone]

why would they call the group that contains dryptosaurus “nanotyrannidae”, that makes me angry actually. Dryptosauridae is so much cooler.

[queen oar]

I would just call it Eutyrannosauria

[final stone]

eutyrannosauria is the clade that includes tyrannosauroids

[undone rapids]

Eutyrannosaurs are nanotyrannids+Tyrannosaurids

[queen oar]

yeah. But that's why

Like, Appalachiosaurus, Dryptosaurus and Bistahieversor, are already said to not have a lot too different than early Tyrannosaurids like Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus, so I don't know if they would have much unique feats to receive a family, or what is the requeriment of a family?

I admittely slept during that class

[undone rapids]

Bistah is an Albertosarine in the new paper, along with all other teratophinis

[queen oar]

That's new

[runic heart]

Really? That’s cool.

[wind prairie]

literally 100% complete

[queen oar]

Which means that one game made by Jaco, with a Bistahieversor is right about it's looks...

Uuuugh!!!

[wind prairie]

t rex has that too to be fair

[charred hearth]

so whats the weight and size of nanotyrannus?

[undone rapids]

Lancensis, the Smaller one is a bit bigger than a Utah Raptor(around 500-600 kg range). Lathaeus, the bigger one is around 1200 kg(Jane basically)

[runic heart]

Does that mean lythronax too or no?

[charred hearth]

wait, so i have a question, what's nano classified as ? daspletosaurini or something else?

[undone rapids]

https://twitter-thread.com/t/1983926921898660347

[undone rapids]

There's two versions of the Philogyny

[charred hearth]

the people on wikipedia already on that

[undone rapids]

From teh Author : https://youtu.be/Y5EB6zcrCOU

[charred hearth]

so does this give hell creek a secondary macropredator now?

[undone rapids]

and a Tertiary one too

[wind prairie]

well we don't know of lancensis and lethaeus coexisted

[hardy sentinel]

Is Nanotyrannus a non Tyrannosaurid Eutyrannosaur now?

[stray wren]

it's a Nanotyrannid (Nanotyrannidae is its own group now, basically the Appalachian tyrannosaurs (Dryptosaurus and Applachiosaurus)

[undone rapids]

Its a nanotyrannid

[charred hearth]

how old was the trike it was hunting?

[undone rapids]

We dunno, it hasn't been researched yet

[charred hearth]

so nano was hunting from what i can tell

• pachy
• struthi
• smaller trike and toro
• smaller edmontos?

[stray wren]

Not only is Nanotyrannus back, it became the single most complete and well described Theropod overnight

[jagged trellis]

rags to riches typa story for the mano nano it seems

[wind prairie]

https://x.com/TylerGreenfieId/status/1983974712591134756 d'oh

Tyler Greenfield (@TylerGreenfieId)

Now that the paper is out, I can unfortunately say that this doesn’t matter because Nanotyrannidae is a nomen nudum.

X · Oct 30, 2025, 7:10 PM

[charred hearth]

what does that mean

[fierce quarry]

"Nomen nudum is a Latin term meaning "naked name". It refers to a name in botanical or zoological nomenclature that is invalid because it lacks a proper description or diagnosis."

[mellow fjord]

nanotyrannus was actually a sauropod that evolved into a tyranosaur

[random lance]

https://tenor.com/view/me-when-i-lie-when-i-lie-i-lie-lie-dog-sunshine-gif-634915078327530593

[charred hearth]

caveman terms please

[runic heart]

I believe it also screws with T. rex growth rate

[charred hearth]

how?

[stiff osprey]

all of what we knew about rex's juvenile stage (under 14) was based on nano specimens

[charred hearth]

damn, so juvie - rex's filling a different niche from a adult is now up for debate?

[runic heart]

Yep

[stiff osprey]

They did fill a different niche from the adults, just the fact they're smaller will do that

But clearly rex didn't hog all the niches for itself as previously thought

[charred hearth]

so, now all we need is the large hell creek dromeosaur right?

[wind prairie]

they didn't really define what it means to be a "nanotyrannid"

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/yoofilos/status/1983977710490980377/photo/1

Yoofilos (@yoofilos)

X · Oct 30, 2025, 7:22 PM

[arctic crane]

Nanotyrannus being valid means that my crockpot theory that north America had an animal in the alioramini niche is supposed

[bitter quest]

More like the mid tier carnivore niche is filled, the missing link

[lean turtle]

Nano W

[sterile trail]

New Dicraeosaurid from the Morrison: Athenar bermani

[kindred night]

Except they did and Tyler is being disingenuous. It's any tyrannosaur that's more closely related to Nanotyrannus than Albertosaurus and Tyrannosaurus. Just because one tree recovers a close relationship with fragmentary Dryptosaurines does not invalidate the group's name.

[hardy sentinel]

So it's a non Tyrannosaurid Eutyrannosaur

[charred hearth]

whats its size?

[boreal vessel]

Hell yeah Nano's valid!

All I want now is for Smok to turn out to be a dinosaur (yes I know it's most likely a Rauisuchian but let me dream)

[white matrix]

The dueling dinosaur nanotyrannus was an adult this entire time?!?!

Yeah guys it might be time for us nanotyrannus deniers to pack it up lmao

[grizzled smelt]

wait, that makes dueling dinosaurs so much more interesting! a nano hunting a trike sounds so cool

[white matrix]

And to think it was in a private collection for a hot minute

Ts is why fossils should always go to museums, cuz some MONUMENTAL specimen like this could be hidden from paleotologists

[grizzled smelt]

exactly! there’s absolutely no reason to keep those things private, they could be the most revolutionary finds ever!

we would’ve never known that nanotyrannus is valid if dueling dinosaurs was kept in a private collection. that’s actually insane.

[white matrix]

Lmao i was going into the new videos and papers like

"Oh boy.. another pointless nanotyrannus paper"

Before they dropped that bombshell of information on my whimsical head

[grizzled smelt]

fr, I was so surprised when the growth ring analysis was brought up, that actually caught me so off guard

I love it tho, hell creek finally has a valid mesopredator, and it’s also a relative of Rex! we finally have another example of tyrannosaurids coexisting with one another, which is so friggin cool

[charred hearth]

do you think dakotaraptor is crying rn

[white matrix]

Holy moly Jane the nanotyrannus is a new species of nanotyrannus entirely too

Two species for nano popping up to existence in the same day IS wild

[runic rover]

cough Alio coexisted with Tarbo in the EXACT SAME FASHION

[white matrix]

Oh yes definitely.

[grizzled smelt]

don’t forget what was going on in Canada with gorgo and friends!

[plush fossil]

So nanotyrannus is valid now?
Cool : )

[white matrix]

For good it seems like

[queen oar]

Pretty much most Ecosystems with Tyrannosaurs included, did coexist with more than one Genera, right?

[sharp jackal]

It's over

I win

[white matrix]

tarbosaurus and alioramus, gorgosaurus and daspletosaurus..

[grizzled smelt]

and now Rex and Nanotyrannus!

[balmy oyster]

There’s so much evidence supporting it and destroying any arguments of it being a juvenile Rex 😭 Bloody Mary was a holy grail of a specimen lmao

[queen oar]

so, I went and looked at it, but I think only Lythronax is the sole Tyrannosaur of it's respective formation? Pretty sad if you ask me

[sharp jackal]

I told you all nano was valid

You laughed at me

I told you all the dueling dinos would prove everything

I was dismissed

For years I said that nano was a dryptosaurid

I was called mad

It. Is. Over.

Im a genius, and im here to collect my debt

[balmy oyster]

I believe Lythro might’ve lived with a undescribed thing but I need to check again

[queen oar]

nope, it's Teratophoneus with an indeterminate Tyrannosauridae, formation i forgot the name

[balmy oyster]

Dang

At least lythro the apex eh?

[queen oar]

Probably not, but we don't have any other confirmation to the otherwise... Yet

[balmy oyster]

Only a matter of time…

[queen oar]

It's no longer a matter of If , it's a matter of When

[charred hearth]

so...what now does a baby / juvie rex look like?

[queen oar]

Yeah, and we have, Tarbosaurus, Raptorex and " Shanshanosaurus "

[balmy oyster]

Tarbosaurus coming to the rescue

[charred hearth]

nano took all of juvies rex material right?

[queen oar]

We also have a pretty young Daspletosuarus, right?

[balmy oyster]

Not everything, but also almost everything.

[balmy oyster]

I think so, but tarbo is probably a better pick

[fluid inlet]

T. rex aka nano victim little Timmy

[runic heart]

So rex’s growth curve is screwed up.

[queen oar]

Technically speaking, Nanotyrannus becoming valid didn't make us loose any of our knowledge about Juvenile Tyrannosaurus, because they still would reflect their phylogenetic history, which kinda of means... Juvenile Tyrannosaurus would look pretty similar to Nanotyrannus, with the exception of the arm and any other distinguishable feats between the two.

[runic heart]

But it does change the growth curve.

[queen oar]

Not really. It changes the specimens associated with the growth curve, but not really. If anything, our knowledge it's still the same... We just don't have the same material anymore.

[balmy oyster]

They would be similar superficially, but every single baby tyrannosaurid would look similar superficially, it’s just a baby thing

[queen oar]

yeah, pretty much, you put it best, I think.

[balmy oyster]

For now, everything that has used nano lancensis & Jane is pretty much innaccurate

We gotta use tarbo now

[sharp jackal]

😭😭😭😭

[charred hearth]

is this true

[balmy oyster]

Oil comes from things like decomposed plant matter, long time before proper decomposition processes were a thing in swampy & peaty areas

[fluid inlet]

This artwork actually goes so hard it’s up there with the Torvosaurus artwork

[ancient crystal]

"Oil comes from the earth and is infinite"

Sometimes I forget how stupid people can be

[runic heart]

I’d assume Rex’s may have had to grow very quickly to avoid competition with nano.

[balmy oyster]

I don’t think nano would be this destructive, or else tyrannosaurus as a species wouldn’t have made it for very long.

[fluid inlet]

I could 1000% see nanotyrannus target young Rexes who venture too far from mama Rex , it’s all about opportunities

[mystic wren]

My friend was the author and blogger. Everyone criticized it and called it bad, looks like he was somewhat right

[fluid inlet]

Young Rexes wouldn’t be no exception, until they hit a certain point in life where the risk is just too much.

[queen oar]

Yeah, probably not. Let's not like treat Nanotyrannus as a invasive species, it's pretty clear it's kinda of a animal that have been there for a considerable amount of time, hell, it might even have been around since Tyrannosaurus potentially appeared in Campanian North America.

It's probably a reminder that, given how certain herbivores in these formations literally did not populate similar areas due to: Overall preference of particular habitats. It's pretty possible that Nanotyrannus and Tyrannosaurus didn't inhabit the same ranges, and if interaction was made, would've been pretty minimal.

Even so, both genera getting bigger later in the Cretaceous, it's kinda of implying that both didn't had much of a giant pressure over each other.

[little mauve]

Cool, I always thought it was an intriguing idea

[runic heart]

Nanotyrannus may have been less common too, yes?

[balmy oyster]

Well, no because it turns out we have quite a bit of them

[runic heart]

Oh, I also like the probability that nanotyrannus had some level of feathering cause it’s a dryptosaur.

[little mauve]

Possibly, HC does show a preservation bias towards large specimens as well. Not that nano is small but now we need to consider juveniles and subadults of that genus as well

[runic heart]

The amount of nanos we have still drastically changes the Rex growth curve, yes?

[fluid inlet]

Why would that be the case

[balmy oyster]

Well it would be if we didn’t have things like tarbo and gorgo to use as reference for how their growth looks like

Ironically now that nano’s its own thing, Rex’s growth curve is a lot more normal and easily replicable

[random lance]

Lack of knowledge concerning ontology moment

As a former juvi rex believer I started to have doubt in my previous belief for the past few weeks, and then the paper drops

[runic heart]

So how does it change then? Grows a bit faster?

[balmy oyster]

I used to be a nano denier due to lack of proper evidence but I was slowly educated on it and realized that we do HAVE the evidence, but it just needs to be properly described and there needs to be good reasons as to why it should be considered a separate specied

[random lance]

Same dude

It’s so cool that on top of that, we got a Dryptosaur/“Nanotyrannid” in Laramidia

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I was about to say it’s like 100% complete ain’t it lol

[random lance]

It’s indisputable, 100% complete fossil, Nano deniers eat your heart out

It also screwed up Rex’s growth rate in the process and I personally think it implies that there’s possibly large bodied tyrannosaurs in Appalachia

[wind prairie]

I knew you'd budge eventually

[random lance]

And even more news from that paper, apparently Moros is either a dryptosaur or something awfully close, and Teratophoneus, Jinbeisaurus, and Bistahieversor are albertosaurines or something very closely related?

[runic heart]

More teeth and fewer vertebrae should do the trick.

[balmy oyster]

I was already fully convinced before the fewer vertebrae was confirmed, but I seriously doubt anyone with a straight face could try defending nanorex anymore

[random lance]

If they do they are proudly fighting a lost debate

[balmy oyster]

Unless it turns out tyrannosaurus was the only amniotic animal ever to completely physically change body & skeleton proportions as it grew for literally no reason, not even its relatives doing the same

[random lance]

A juvenile Rex’s life was HELL I’ll say that

[fluid inlet]

Nanos keeping the population controlled

[balmy oyster]

What if it was really good and they were all friends

[random lance]

Not even just nanos, there’s cannibalism and a large dromaeosaur running around somewhere on top of likely highly aggressive herbivores and a stork from Hell

[sharp jackal]

If you listened to the Prophet Dibble you would've known about drypto nano 3 years ago

[balmy oyster]

Makes you wonder what else exist within laramidia

[white matrix]

probably giant mixpacks of smth

[random lance]

I often thought about some crazy speculation involving Nano being a brood parasite

[runic heart]

Makes you wonder what else is actually valid.

[fluid inlet]

This ain’t the land before time

[white matrix]

wait a minute.. does this mean jurrasic fight club was right this entire time?

[runic rover]

Nature's balancement.

[random lance]

Yes

[fluid inlet]

Which dromeosaur

[white matrix]

crap.. we need to get them to undo the papers.. can't have jfc to be right about smth..

[sharp jackal]

How is it only now that drypto nano has been published. It takes three seconds to see that drypto nano and nanuq all have the same shape of alveoli

[random lance]

Don’t know, but it’s not Dakotaraptor cough cough turtle

[runic rover]

aside from the part where a Nano attacked a full grown Rex, yeah.

[random lance]

Sewer slide-al Nano was dumb looking back

[balmy oyster]

This is gonna be fun

[random lance]

Hear me out… Manospondylus gigas

[queen oar]

Curious, but in any of the Nanotyrannus specimens do we have bite marks of Tyrannosaurus on them?

[sharp jackal]

Speaking of nanuq, does the paper say anything about him?

[balmy oyster]

Nothing

[random lance]

Not that I recall no (answering both questions)

[white matrix]

No that'd probably just incinerate it

[random lance]

A nano would just explode from a full grown Rex LMAO

[white matrix]

Like not even a trace of the thing would be left, it'd just be gone

[fluid inlet]

Dromeosaurs , nanons , T. rexes , trikes , toros , ankys , Edmonton’s

Doesn’t sound like it was fun for anything growing up

[random lance]

Not to mention the Western Interior Seaway being just around the corner

[white matrix]

Well they have it easy, we have to do homework while growing up.

[fluid inlet]

Mosa like easy snacks

[random lance]

And Pachy wanting to headbutt anything theropod shaped in sight that isn’t a big Rex (probably)

[queen oar]

Probably not. But... I'm having some crazy ideas, maybe.

Juvie Tyrannosaurus and Nanotyrannus symbiosis. Pretty similar body plans, they can do pretty similar results on prey item. Why not just hunt with each other?

[random lance]

Assuming they’d even get along

[white matrix]

Because the baby rexes are gonna grow up to be a menace to society and probably bite one or two of them and make them go kaboom

Can't let that happen yk?

[sharp jackal]

Speaking of nanuq, does the paper say anything about him?

[random lance]

Not that I recall no

[queen oar]

Don't think they would. There's more found negative interactions in Tyrannosaurus with itself, rather than Nanotyrannus.

[white matrix]

Eh tbf we have like a thousand rex fossils and only like 4 nano fossils atm so

But yeah symbiosis sounds fun

[queen oar]

I mean, yeah. But like, you would imagine that IF they were a big deal to Tyrannosaurus, that Tyrannosaurus would also eliminate them. But, doesn't seem so. To be clear, this is pretty consistent with other Tyrannosaurs, where pathologies seem to be caused by infraspecific interactions, rather than interspecific.

[runic heart]

The dromaeosaurid material in dakotaraptor can still technically be called dakotaraptor. Just wasn’t that big.

[runic rover]

That is, of course if a rex can even try to keep up with it.

[arctic crane]

So is tarbosaurus our best look at tyrannosaur growth now? Or should I say for now

[wind prairie]

you could even say a hell creek
What are we, some kind of hell creek??

[white matrix]

jokes on you nanotyrannus is extinct and therefore no longer a valid species

[sharp jackal]

:c

[tough parcel]

If you looked on anywhere else, you'd find almost anyone with an interest in tyrannosaurs has gone "Drypto NanoT" at least once in their life

Like it's stupid funny how common it was sometimes

[fluid inlet]

Artworks that go absolutely hard

[queen oar]

Realistically, interspecific elimination tends to always occur without warning, and even if Tyrannosaurus is not that fast ( Which I have my doubts, as I do not find Tyrannosaurus to be highly specialized ), characteristically, Tyrannosaurs have always stalked and exhausted their prey/targets primarily. This is majorly due to how their feet works, and how we think they should be reconstructed.

Additionally, even if we don't have Interspecific elimination behaviour found, the fact itself that Nanotyrannus isn't found to be a potential prey item to Tyrannosaurus, a animal that does not seem to be getting picky with it's food anytime soon, kinda of also says it didn't look at it that way.

[arctic crane]

Weird how just having nano makes the hell creek ecology fit so much better in my head. Like a piece of a puzzle I didn't know was missing

Do we have any evidence of a large dromaeosaur there?

[warped peak]

There's a moderate sized Dromaeosaur there based on a fragment of Dakotaraptor but not a large one

[fluid inlet]

Someone said so earlier that there is a big dromeosaur around

[runic heart]

Dakotaraptor still exists, it’s just very elusive and also not that big.

[warped peak]

Its just a different animals of a different size with a different name

[queen oar]

Dakotaraptor is... " Something "

What that would be, is: Up to your imagination✨ ✨

[runic heart]

The name dakotaraptor still applies.

[warped peak]

Only if the holotype material is actually the parts that were a Dromaeosaur and not any of the chimeric parts

[arctic crane]

So if we ever find a large-ish raptor in hell creek it just becomes dakotaraptor?

[runic heart]

Thomas Holtz just tweeted that is not true. It still gets the name dakotaraptor if the holotype has dromaeosaur material, which it does.

[tough parcel]

That's not what he said unless there's more than one tweet on Dakotaraptor from Holtz 💀

[warped peak]

I mean, this has happened before in paleontology and thats just not what happens

Look at Eocarcharia

[tough parcel]

https://x.com/TomHoltzPaleo/status/1983942894839804024
Do you mean this

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. 🦖💕 (he/him) (@TomHoltzPaleo)

@MichaelPerrr Only Dakotaraptor isn't dead. (Well, I mean it is: all non-avian dinos are...)

There is a large bodied eudromaeosaur in the upper Hell Creek. Some of the original holotype shows that.

X · Oct 30, 2025, 5:03 PM

[balmy oyster]

Okay this was a completely baller guess

Here’s one of mine

[queen oar]

Realistically, that always came by the choice of the Paleontologist themselves.

[balmy oyster]

Well paleontologists have said nano was a baby Rex but turns out we just needed Bloody Mary to solve everything

I think this nano paper has officially satiated me, the news alone has made me finally happy.

[sharp jackal]

Sensational 🥹

[runic heart]

I do

[queen oar]

More saying that, IF a Paleontologist thinks that a fragmentary or chimaeric taxa deserves to keep that name, has always came by choice. It realistically doesn't help that some Paleontologists do not exactly agree with the standards from the norms of nomenclature of the ICZN, when it comes to certain taxons, with those particular researchers.

If you do not think so...

" Syntarsus " is used in the 2020 Dilophosaurus paper, by just one example.

Most researchers are thinking on isolating the name Eeictus to only the original holotype of Kronosaurus queenslandicus, and the rest of the material associated to that name staying the same ( K. queenslandicus )

etc.

[sharp jackal]

😒 right.

[tough parcel]

Then you misunderstood completely

It's the idea of Dakotaraptor, a large Hell Creek raptor, that isn't dead

[arctic crane]

If we do find a large dromaeosaur in hell creek they should call it some cool like infernoraptor.

[sharp jackal]

Ah this explains things lmao

[balmy oyster]

Didn’t everyone collectively ignore that Krono paper, effectively keeping Kronosaurus unchanged

[prisma hawk]

Ok nvm I’m convinced

[queen oar]

I mean, yes. But... It kinda of doesn't change anything because it was published and also peer-reviewed. Effectively making something that... Even you ignore...

It cannot go away.

Which is why some researchers are thinking on only isolating that name with the original holotype of Kronosaurus queenslandicus only.

[queen oar]

@balmy oyster Guess what? " Tyrannosaurus " bataar guy is being himself again ( Man doesn't want to give up )

[white matrix]

well

that sure is funny

[runic rover]

I don't like Carr

[topaz shell]

Wait Nanotyrannus is real??

[runic heart]

Nanotyrannus literally has a 3rd vestigial finger.

[full lagoon]

Tyrannosaurus does too, it's just barely visible on the skeleton (not visible in life though)

[runic heart]

It is now.

[arctic crane]

I'm having my fun with the nano memes. But I didn't really have a dog in this fight either nanotyrannus was real or it wasn't. But now that the dust has finally settled why was the idea of a medium sized theropod in late Cretaceous north America that ridiculous? I mean we see that in Asia right?

[fossil ingot]

Nano deniers when we have a Skeletal showing its Peakness:

[runic heart]

Never asked yet, what’s the ceratopsian?

[topaz shell]

I think it’s just triceratops

[fossil ingot]

Trike, a Young one

[arctic crane]

So is that evidence that nanotyrannus would try it's luck at larger prey? Or is it just a coincidence that they died next to each other?

[runic rover]

From the look it could have been washed away in a flood given the position of the neck of the nano

[balmy oyster]

Neck position could just be muscles contracting after death

[lavish frigate]

My spite towards Tyrannosauridae has grown significantly

WE CANT HAVE TYRANNOSAURUS BATAAR BUT WE CAN HAVE NANO?! Who put JFC in charge of paleontology, this is an injustice

[runic rover]

Also can I just say how glad I am that (aside from a fav of mine being finally accepted) the stupid aah theory of Rexes using their juveniles as "pursuers" is garbage now? Like what animal ever does that IRL?

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Given how different Rex and Tarbo are
Tarbo Peak

[full lagoon]

What does this mean for our knowledge of juvenile tyrannosaurus?

[fossil ingot]

Nano also like
Revived existed thx to this mf here and more

[arctic crane]

It's probably going to need to be re-examined

[runic heart]

Wouldn’t mind another season of php going back to maastrichtian. We could see nanotyrannus, tylosaurus, cretoxyrhina, and a bunch of other stuff.

[prisma hawk]

Whether Tarbosaurus is a separate genus is kinda just personal taste tbh. Genera are pretty subjective

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/you-take-that-back-take-that-back-ross-geller-rachel-friends-gif-5982073129383985507

[balmy oyster]

I was scrolling through this channel and re-found this argument

I wonder what he thinks about the new paper

[lavish frigate]

In all seriousness what’s the nano news because I haven’t had time to see anything about it

[runic heart]

[fossil ingot]

[full lagoon]

I'm more so curious about how they would be distinctive, as it's claimed that the nanotyrannus had physical distinctions such as the teeth count & skull pathways

[prisma hawk]

It’s a separate genus and there’s two species of it

[fossil ingot]

Basically Valid
Its an Adult
"Jane" is likely a 2nd Nano species

[balmy oyster]

Bloody Mary confirmed to be a mature adult & referable to the Nanotyrannus holotype, solidifying the species

There is also “Jane” which has evidence for pointing a SECOND species of Nanotyrannus

[lavish frigate]

Wait so what does juvenile Tyrannosaurus look like now

[full lagoon]

Do we have any definitely juvenile rexes anyways?

[topaz shell]

Pretty sure they stayed the same

[arctic crane]

From what I've seen so far the differences are pretty substantial.
I know YouTube vids are not a great source but one of the authors of The nano paper made this one
https://youtu.be/Y5EB6zcrCOU?si=Y4OvHErXou6RQ19t

[charred hearth]

because tarbosaurus isnt tyrannosaurus?

[fossil ingot]

Nano kinda sucked most Juvie Rexes
But we do have this apparent Teen Rex and iirc a few more

[balmy oyster]

We don’t have much on it unfortunately, but there is a specimen nicknamed “baby Bob” that we’re all hoping ends up in a museum to be further studied that shows similarities to true Rex specimens despite being a juvenile

[lavish frigate]

Oh no I’ve accidentally drawn so many Nanotyrannus 😭 🙏

[runic rover]

We don't know, but Tarbosaurus "the goddamn peak" Bataar can give a hint toward it

[balmy oyster]

The nanotyrannus takes over all

[lavish frigate]

mumbles anti tarbo sentiments under my breath

Ah I see, what material do we have for baby tarbo

[full lagoon]

I'm aware of the differences, I'm more curious about a confirmed juvenile of a tyrannosaurus rex

[queen oar]

so, to clarify:

Thomas Carr in multiple interviews justifies his perspective of the usage of already existing genera, for other established taxa, like " Albertosaurus " libratus and " Tyrannosaurus " bataar

his justifications involves a personnal explanation of his own where: If a another taxa is sister to another taxa, this mean this taxa shares similar morphology, similar anatomy, similar behaviour, etc. With " Similar " actually just entailing... Identical. Even though, that's not how genera works. Genera exists to standardize a definition to material only associated with that particular taxa, usually defined by feats of a holotype.

So, by standard: Carr is saying that Tarbosaurus can be defined under the same feats as the holotype of Tyrannosaurus and AMNH 5027... Do I need to explore the big problem with that?

I don't think I do.

[balmy oyster]

Not too many, but we have a considerable amount of specimens enough to be able to see a general pattern in ontogeny that we can use for tyrannosaurus

[lost moon]

I was skeptical for a while after the Longrich paper but then more and more evidence made the case stronger for Nanotyrannus. I figured the dueling dinosaurs would more or less settle it but I wasn’t sure how - this research is really rad and I think it makes sense that there would be more than one large theropod at the time

[balmy oyster]

Nobody trusted longrich so this paper went

“Fine. I’ll do it myself.”

[lavish frigate]

Would they still be lanky boys or are they now stupid chunky little men

[prisma hawk]

I mean whether to create a new genus vs assign to an already existing genus is basically just the lumper vs splitter debate.

[arctic crane]

Also getting their money's worth since the museum has to buy that from its rich private owner lol

[queen oar]

I think you are not understanding the point. This is not a point where Tarbosaurus clearly resembles Tyrannosaurus...

It's just that Carr thinks Tyrannosaurus is cooler than Tarbosaurus

So he tries to mask biased preferences under a bullsh-$% explanation, that sounds *reasonable * if you don't know how taxonomy works...

But it's pretty stupid, if you know how Taxonomy works

[balmy oyster]

At the very least the guy was willing to sell it for future research, and very delightful that he did because Bloody Mary proved EXTREMELY useful.

Not many private owners are willing to do that, so for someone to allow this with one of the most sickest fossils ever is extraordinary

[compact leaf]

I don’t know why but Gorgosaurus lancinator is such a funny name

[balmy oyster]

All he did was change the name, meanwhile proportions are still tyrannosaurus 😭

[arctic crane]

Truly incredible

[fossil ingot]

[fierce quarry]

So Dryptosaurid are now called Nannotyrannisaurid ?

[runic rover]

Did you know Carr had access to a private collection with a Nano skeleton?

He COULD have settled the debate but his Dondi level of Ego went in the way. He just rubbed it off like "why would I do that? I know I'm right!"

I swear I'm having a crashout on BEING RIGHT because this goddamn guy .

[prisma hawk]

I don’t think it’s stupid. It’s personal preference. As long as a genus is monophyletic, the rest is pretty subjective

[queen oar]

He is so stubborn, frankly.

[balmy oyster]

I guess that’s fair

[queen oar]

Credits to him though, most of us definetly wished to have THAT determination

[prisma hawk]

I can’t imagine keeping fossils private. A crime against science

[arctic crane]

It's a very complicated issue

[runic heart]

Imagine keeping cool stuff in museum backlogs.

[prisma hawk]

I mean that’s just a funding issue really. Keeping cool stuff in a private collection is just because you’re a jerk

[queen oar]

What a day, huh?

[runic heart]

Yeah…. I’d like to have a cool private collection, but I’d at least let people see and study stuff.

[fluid inlet]

Between this and the Edmontosaurus mummies it’s been great paleontology lately

[arctic crane]

It's been a pretty good month for mesozoic paleontology

[queen oar]

You know what this means, right?

[balmy oyster]

this whole years has been pretty good ngl

[queen oar]

Good things can only happen at the expense of something bad happening next

[balmy oyster]

yeah this is why in return for cool dinosaurs the world is actively imploding in everything else

[fossil ingot]

If only Adam was finally described...

[arctic crane]

What do we and nanotyrannus have in common?

We're both #backinhell

[balmy oyster]

[fluid inlet]

Yeah this was the biggest news imo https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09271-w

[balmy oyster]

so many good new stuff

[arctic crane]

We really are in a second dino renaissance

[fluid inlet]

We just need to find a complete big azhdarchid skull and I’m chilling

[sharp jackal]

More receipts 🥱

@sinful valve come out, come out, wherever u iiiisss!

[tough parcel]

Were your differences "big arms" or smth 💔 💔 💔 💔

[little mauve]

Looks like lancensis potentially evolved into lethaeus

[sharp jackal]

Just sit in shame son. Ur lucky I haven't cooked u yet since u laughed at me 3 months ago. And the differences are in the alveoli shape. 🤫 It’s over. No more running. I win.

[tough parcel]

What are you talking about

[charred hearth]

someone has truama

[tough parcel]

Are you ok?

[arctic crane]

Naming it after the river lethe feels like a massive middle finger lol

[sharp jackal]

Anyone else? I don't need apologies. Just hold your heads in shame. I don't lose. 🐐

[balmy oyster]

annie are you okay
are you okay annie

[craggy trench]

dude this isnt very nice esp asking for "receipts"

[little mauve]

Middle finger to stygivenator heads certainly

[balmy oyster]

you've been hit by
you've been struck by

Nanotyrannus.

[tough parcel]

What are you proving here? This is the GSP paper, the paper no-one uses

You were still wrong for using it

[balmy oyster]

that would be kind of weird because Lethaeus lived earlier than lancensis

[little mauve]

Now I'm revisiting everything I can about the Cleveland skull and other nanotyrannus specimens. Interesting point from a study on endocasts:

"Orientation of the endosseous labyrinth reveals that alert head postures of T. rex and Gorgosaurus were somewhat depressed below the horizontal, but the Cleveland skull had a very strongly down-turned posture."

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.20983

[tough parcel]

I’ve always heard that, was cool but I dunno if that was addressed with the Riparovenator paper

As in using the inner ear as a diagnostic trait

[sharp jackal]

Do I need to pull up more screenshots? The only part i affirmed it that amniote appendages don't atrophy. Just take your L and move man. You're just another one of my victims here 🤣🤣🤣

[little mauve]

Looks like lancensis the from the lower and lethaeus is from the upper in this figure

[balmy oyster]

Oh Pluh I must’ve read it wrong, mb

[craggy trench]

no one is a victim
due to the published science at the time nano was invalid
going around and going im better cause i was right doest make you lool cool
just a jerk

[tough parcel]

Uh yea sure, if you’d like? Nothing I said there is wrong though so unfortunately, you’re still…at a net neutral? Idk what you’re on but maybe you need to take a computer break

[tough parcel]

See the thing is at the time, people were aware of Napoli’s Ontogeny Paper but no-one liked GSP’s paper because it isn’t as solid science as today’s or the ontogeny paper

Unfortunately, DD here really wants to use the GSP paper

[sharp jackal]

Yes because before today amniote appendages did atrophy and the alveoli of nanotyrannus were not similar to other dryptosaurids. Im just collecting my debt

[craggy trench]

there is no debt dude your just looking pathetic

[arctic crane]

Soooooo. How big was nano? This group usually gives good size competitions. Was it at least bigger than alio lol

[tough parcel]

It’s an odd hill to die on but teenage brains aren’t done forming so I ain’t taking it personally

I was annoying as a kid too lol y’know?

[balmy oyster]

Idk about lancensis, but Lathaeus seems to be

[little mauve]

What do you mean? They reconstructed alert head position in the same way, via inner ear orientation, in the ceratosuchops CT scan paper

[craggy trench]

at least one alio species, cant find a skeletal for the other

[tough parcel]

No that’s what I mean

I couldn’t remember if there was a possibility of change found in the Cerato-Riparo paper or in any rebuttal (if there was one?)

[little mauve]

Don't think so, not aware of any rebuttal either but there may be I'm not sure. It's a pretty standard method

[sharp jackal]

You can backread if you like. You dismissed all of the gsp paper because a lot of it is bad. But he still affirmed a bunch of things about nano that we have known for years. Its actually sad how hard u are fighting this L.

[tough parcel]

Just as an fyi, this is what Thomas Carr had to say on GSP’s paper
In the NYTimes article on the Paul et al. 2022 paper Carr said that the evidence in the paper was "vanishingly weak" (I kept the print copy) in a piece read by millions around the world

[tough parcel]

Yea I wasn’t aware of one either but I could’ve sworn I did hear mention that it wasn’t the most robust difference then again, it might’ve been that inner ears aren’t the most common fossil in European spinosaurs

[arctic crane]

Looks like hell creek is finally gonna dethrone nemegt as my favorite cretaceous formation

[sharp jackal]

"2022" so not the same paper i referenced. Amd yes the 2022 study is bad. And thomas carr is victim no. 1 today. I am feasting

[little mauve]

Overall their endocasts showed a conservative form relative to other theropods, i.e. they weren't neurologically specialized really. That could mean a lot of things and not necessarily apply to spinosaurs as a whole. Maybe thats what you're recalling

[tough parcel]

He's on Twitter if you want to talk to him, I'm sure he'd love to speak to someone like you

[tough parcel]

Ohhh actually that might be it thanks for the clarification

[little mauve]

No problemo

[charred hearth]

no i need to run my fade too

[tough parcel]

Sorry I kinda started ignoring him, what's up?

[little mauve]

But yeah if nanotyrannus did have a more tilted orientation to its alert head postures, could have interesting behavioral implications

[tough parcel]

Tbf I'd assume its prey is usually shorter than it

Probably not the case as to why it was like that but looking down doesn't seem too weird

[charred hearth]

seeing how we got nano back, do you think we'll finally get dakota / the hell creek raptor?

[sharp jackal]

Have we talked before?

[little mauve]

Yeah that seems likely, some kind of adaptation for smaller prey. I wonder if it would improve visual acuity and field of view too

[tough parcel]

Unfortunately, you'd need sclerotic rings from a few different critters to determine that

[craggy trench]

if he gets freed from fossil jail perhaps

[little mauve]

Hit em with the shoebill

[charred hearth]

does anyone have a image of how large the hell creek raptor is ? ( not archeraptor )

[tough parcel]

Also lemme just say you're a goat for not jumping into a NanoT discussion and immediately fueling the fire lol

[craggy trench]

I just want normal healty paleo talks :3

[arctic crane]

Hey is troodon still valid. If so are there any from hell creek?

[craggy trench]

troodon isnt valid but there might be a neotype on the horizon
and there is Troodontidae in hc
pectidon for example

[balmy oyster]

No and idk maybe (Gualicho would know)

[tough parcel]

On a technical level, it's valid

On a "Does it make sense" level, it's not because the body fossils are from a different area than the holotype

[charred hearth]

can i see the image 🐱

[sharp jackal]

Crucified for 3+ years here for this btw. It was only a matter of time before the revelation. Am I wrong for reciprocating it?

[tough parcel]

@sullen cairn is the world's foremost expert on why Troodon sucks so I'll let them spiral out of control here

[little mauve]

I understand feeling good about a hypothesis being vindicated but it's majorly bad science to indulge in that. Science isn't about belief, it's not about being proven right

[sharp jackal]

Nothing serious happened to me and nothing im saying is that serious either. Im just enjoying my investment. You're more than welcome to stay on your side of the fence. Im happy on mine 😌

[little mauve]

Hot take but even scavenger rex, as a hypothesis, served its purpose to be falsifiable. Without that hypothesis we probably wouldn't have nearly as many studies as we do proving that rex was a hunter. Thereby better understanding its ecology.

[marsh tapir]

Please remain polite and respectful while interacting on this server.

Do not provoke or antagonize other users.

Refer to our #rules

[sharp jackal]

Well said admin 👏

[sullen cairn]

can you remind me again in a few hours gracias

[tough parcel]

You've let me down...I'll never forget this...

[arctic crane]

Despite it all. I feel privileged it's such findings are happening during my lifetime. I can almost see the ecology of hell creek spring to life before my eyes

[compact leaf]

top 10 anime betrayal

[sullen cairn]

fine ill find like a screenshot

[tough parcel]

Thanks bbg

[lavish frigate]

Someone needs to have a conspiracy that connects the Neo robot drop with the Nanotyrannus paper

[arctic crane]

I assume they're going to have to sort through a lot of them now. But do we have any confirmed juvie rexes? I assume their growth is just closer to tarbo now

[sharp jackal]

Sleepin too good tonight 😌

[tough parcel]

There's a few in private collections but "Teen Rex" is a likely juvenile-sub adult rex

[sullen cairn]

so the neotype paper spends like half the discussion trying to establish that troodon has been tied to canadian material since like the 1940s which besides the fact i think they dont do a very good job arguing that point is also somewhat undermined by the fact the neotype they assign is not from canada but rather two medicine which from what i can tell is generally considered to represent a more arid and upland environment than dinosaur park/judith river which is to say the canadian stuff is more depositionally similar to the type locality than the neotype locality which you'd kinda not want for a neotype which is further compounded by the fact they pretty repeatedly note consistent cranial differences with laten to the point of including a character in the new diagnosis that verbatim cant include laten and also further bolster the distinctiveness of a pubis referred to laten relative to the two med material which isnt shocking because nobody's every disputed that the laten pubis isnt distinct relative to every other troodontid yet in spite of this they conclude there is no compelling evidence of a second troodon in the region which they use as there sole basis for making stenonychosaurus a synonym of troodon 2 seconds after saying its not diagnostic beyond being an indet troodontid and more generally i think the neotype diagnosis is questionable cause most of the characters (maxillary) cant be compared with any other NA taxa and the characters that can be compared either differ from laten but they ignore this entirely for some reason or are shared with laten which again deviates from the things diagnosis anyways and also they throw in leg proportions as diagnostic when im pretty sure only one specimen preserves those leg proportions and it doesnt share any actually diagnostic characters with any other specimen which is all to say i think the neotype is likely premature and barely resembles the popular conception of troodon morphologically and hit the word limit

[tough parcel]

Well uh @arctic crane if you were curious

[craggy trench]

table is wise in the troodons

[sharp jackal]

Honestly im not even convinced by this paper. Still think its just baby t rex

[sullen cairn]

there is much more that can be said but it takes too long to say all of it much less say it coherently

[sterile knoll]

Edmontosaurus had hooves, Nanotyranus is real. The world is healing.

[craggy trench]

now all we need is the unicorn spino paper

[sharp jackal]

Nano is not real. Have you never read carr? All those differences are just niche partitioning. Wake 👏 up 👏

[tough parcel]

No wonder you win everything, you swap sides based on vibes

[stiff osprey]

He plays all sides so that he can never lose

[sharp jackal]

@admin he thinks nano is valid, ban him

[little mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/im-playing-both-sides-both-sides-its-always-sunny-frank-retires-s10e09-gif-17913970

[thorn grove]

Nanotyrannus played the tuba

[ionic linden]

giant psittaco discovery when (at least the size of utah)

[tough parcel]

Tomorrow

[tiny holly]

I'm very glad to see paleochat is having a normal one about nano today

[sharp jackal]

Are u making fun of me? Lol! You do realize that all of the morphological differences are just coincidence. Carr said so y'know. Admin! Admin! There's a troll in my soup. No one actually thinks nano is valid!

[winter marsh]

HUGE psitacossaurus discovery PROVES that psitaco is, in fact, not made of tacos

[tiny holly]

imo one of the sickest parts of all of this to me is that the DD specimen specifically is nano. It's a really cool specimen in general, and its neat how instrumental it was in helping resurrect nano

[tough parcel]

No...no you're lying

[sharp jackal]

I give up! This is too hard. How did u guys do this for so many years? Whats the secret?

[winter marsh]

double life ahh

[fluid inlet]

Until someone puts out a paper for nano not being valid , I won’t entertain it, nano is valid and you will accept it.

[tiny holly]

I mean I doubt we'll see any (respectable) rebuttals. From what I've heard this proof is about as definitive as it gets

[winter marsh]

that rex is gonna have a field day if the nanos dont see em coming

[sharp jackal]

Im trying to learn the nano denier way. I think i got the argument down but my delivery's off. Tips?

[tough parcel]

Nah, Carr and Holtz are both on-board with its revival

I haven't heard of Holtz's opinion on the two species but Ik Carr is like "Ehh I dunno man"

[winter marsh]

think like a flat earther, aka dont

[sharp jackal]

So 99% of this chat (everyone but me lol) was like a flat eather before today? That's a bit rude

[tough parcel]

Don't engage with them, they're tryna confirmation bias their way to a mental high

It's kind of uncomfortable Ima be real

[fluid inlet]

I just want more siats material to be discovered

[winter marsh]

kinda, its like the ancient europe where everyone thought the earth was flat even tho greeks already discovered that the earth was round

[sharp jackal]

I always knew I was a Greek intellectual in my past life 🥹

[tough parcel]

What did I tell you

[winter marsh]

huh

[sharp jackal]

Don't engage with them. just gonna laugh at you

[winter marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/patrik-bottle-hat-gif-26508133

[fluid inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/george-foreman-foreman-george-foreman-stare-stare-intimidating-gif-3068987426677457732

[sharp jackal]

Cook 😭😭😭

Ay but next time quote me lol

[tough parcel]

When next time? You haven't said anything substantial 💔

[winter marsh]

nanotyrannus after dying for the trizillionth time and coming back for real (no one is surprised because some degenerate Jack Horner gen alpha fan is gonna ''debunk'' it [badly written paper with no basis at all])

[tough parcel]

I think Nano will be real forever because I said so

The professionals agreed with me

[winter marsh]

I hope so, and it suuuurely wont turn into some sort of weird pterosaur or other random dinosaur like Dakota and Saurophaganax (please dont discombobulate it into a shrew)

[sharp jackal]

Its a start i guess. Personally I think its valid because the evidence has been consistent for several years. Same with its classification in dryptosauridae. The professionals have good insight but aren't immune to bias.

[fluid inlet]

Darius Nau told me Nano is valid , it’s valid.

[arctic crane]

A side from just putting the debate to rest this is also quite a shake up on a lot of stuff.

[tiny holly]

behold, a shrew 😤

[winter marsh]

the most magnificent shrew ever

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/hodhodaa-gif-21833761

[arctic crane]

So what does this mean for the T-Rex hunting in groups theory? Now that some of those teenage Rex's are a completely different species I doubt they're chasing prey towards the "adults"

[winter marsh]

they probably just bullying a child

[queen oar]

Hello Epic @sullen cairn how are you? Nanotyrannus, blah blah blah, you know the news already.

[little mauve]

Still highly speculative, I think the idea goes back to Currie and his albertosaurs, this doesn't change that

[queen oar]

Yeah.

[sharp jackal]

Oct 30th is the greatest day in debt collection history 🤣🤣🤣

[tiny holly]

I think you could even make an argument that the existence of nano gives slightly more credence to parental care in tyrannosaurus, what with there being a whole other predator that would directly threaten unprotected juvenile rex. Could extrapolate that towards cooperative hunting between adutls and juveniles. Still speculative as a whole though

[tough parcel]

Tbf it's not exactly known for animals to bring their little babies on hunts before they split off

[fossil ingot]

I stole it from someone

[queen oar]

I'm putting all of my money in Juvie Tyrannosaurus and Nanotyrannus temporary symbiosis

That's right, baby!!! I'm gonna loose big time!!! But only 90% quit before winning big!!!

[arctic crane]

I'd put my money on parental care in Trex. I'm a little sceptical of packing hunting. At least anything greater than a mated pair

[balmy oyster]

I think some animals but do for relatively easier/helpless prey as a means of showing their young what they do, but I don’t have anything backing it & afaik it could just because babies are rowdy and followed the parent around anyways

[tough parcel]

Yea no, obviously but I mean normal hunts

[queen oar]

I just don't believe in Parental care in most theropods, sorry

[tiny holly]

There's no way it was universal but I'm sure it happened pretty often. Modern theropods aka birds aren't a perfect comparison because so many of them are altricial unlike most extinct theropods seemed to be. But parental care has a lot of benefits, particularly in the ecosystems these animals lived in

[arctic crane]

Why? Both ends of archosauria do it today why couldn't they then?

[tiny holly]

I mean reptiles in general honestly. Egg care is more common that people realise in squamates, and actual care for live offspring happens too, albeit more rarely

[little mauve]

Crocodile parental care and avian parental care are pretty different, I generally think theropods were more like the former than the latter

[tough parcel]

Actually, the T. rex was so bloodthirsty, it would KILL all babies...including its own...like the Dimetrodon...

[queen oar]

Like, the purpose of parental care, beyond the aspect of reassuring the survival of your offspring, it's to also, in some way, reassure that your culture as an animal still survives in some way. It's not intentionally, mind you, because I'm not insinuating that, but...

Generally speaking, from our evidence, most young theropods tend to eat different items than their parents. Except things like Oviraptosaurs, Ornithomimosaurs, Troodontids, Ceratosaurs, etc. This seems to be too coincidental, but those are also groups who have high potential where both genders have display structures, where for one individual to learn how to use these, they would require to be exposed to another member using it, likely their parents.

[arctic crane]

Sure they differ but Crocs still protect both the eggs and the young

[queen oar]

This is not to say that other Theropods don't have it, but it's very likely that they do not have those structures pretty early on in their life, and probably will only understand the usage of it, much later.

[little mauve]

Some do, some abandon them from the jump. Studies of alligators show high variability in the efforts of the mother, but sometimes even the dads help out. So it's highly variable

[queen oar]

Totally speculative, but I tend to imagine Younger Male Adults of Large Theropods, will likely consult or partner with Older Males, purely for the knowledge of potential display.

[tiny holly]

Parental care is kind of a spectrum though. On the most basic level it is simply "try and make sure a few babies get eaten as possible" and nothing more, along the lines of crocodilians. More involved parental care is also about the passing down of skills. I doubt the latter was very common, but even cases of different diets between juveniles and adults don't preclude the former

[arctic crane]

I've never seen a study of alligators abandoning there egg mounts with a reason. Could you provide a study?

[little mauve]

I think it's from the book The Biology and Evolution of Crocodylians by Grigg & Kirshner. I'll try to dig up my copy

[arctic crane]

You know they'll abandon them for certain stress factors like a hurricane, And that's generally crocs don't that feed very young just protect

[queen oar]

What I meant it's difficult to pass down your skills if hypothetically, your juvenile is doing something different than you. It's simply not practical, you can't exactly force it either, because it seems that there a clear distinction between the Juveniles and Adults, where the Juveniles are simply not able to do the same things as the adults. Or sometimes, they can, but they don't really need the assistance of the adults.

Where some of the other groups I mentioned, don't seem to have that much.

[tiny holly]

Yeah course, I just don't think that fact contradicts parental care in most theropod groups

[scenic flame]

the humble swan....

[scenic flame]

culture has only been observed in apes and cetaceans

[sharp jackal]

And that someone got it from me 🐐

[queen oar]

So, how do you assure that for example, your offspring acquires specific skills for that species? Realistically, we can't just imagine Tyrannosaurus individuals would be clueless forever, and they have to learn certain tricks with someone...

It's kinda of why I tend to a bit tolerate with the idea of Tyrannosaurs partnering up with other individuals. Because... For me, at least, it's probably how they learn things, when they get too big.

[arctic crane]

I don't think the majority of dinosaurs had the level of parental care of, say a crow or a mammal. But it's a pretty big sliding scale. Completely abandoning them like turtles carrying only for the eggs like kamodo dragons. Caring for both but not actually feeding them like crocs.

[queen oar]

So, simple question: What do you think culture entails?

[charred hearth]

dont elephants also have " culture "

[tiny holly]

Instincts can do a lot of heavy lifting, it's pretty incredible what animals can be capable of just through innate "knowledge" as it were. Skills can also be learnt through passive observation, even if you're not directly copying. A juvenile theropod with a different diet from it's parents can still benefit from seeing how it's parents go about life

[charred hearth]

what is culture when we talk abt animals?

[little mauve]

From a different paper but found someone citing the literature on site defense. Still looking for the book

[queen oar]

I mean, that's possible too. I'm just too skeptical, admittedly...

[sterile knoll]

Already made this my new screen savor lol

[arctic crane]

Interesting. Is this unique to American alligators or do caimans do it too?

[scenic flame]

Culture in animals is defined as a taught behaviour that is passed down through generations that is not inately known to the animal.

Parental care is not specifically for teaching skills, it's core aspect is to ensure that your offspring get the best start possible in life, this can involve teaching skills and that's not out of the question for some non-avian dinosaurs, but it can also be seen in examples such as:

• Parasatoid wasps
• Wasps that provision for their larva
• Eusocial wasps that communally raise their larva
• Bees (a type of wasp)
• Ants (a type of wasp also)
• Deer that keep their young close to protect them from smaller predators
• Dung beetles which lay a single egg and protect if for up to 4 months
• a very very large amount of animal kingdom in general

[tiny holly]

I mean that's kinda the cool thing about parental care imo, it's so insanely variable. Most forms of parental care imaginable likely existed in some way among dinosaurs, considering how many there were, how diverse they were and how long they existed for. Think about the sheer diversity in parental care you see today, in our tiny little snapshot in time

[scenic flame]

Yes, frankly speaking you are being too sceptical of widely accepted ideas in this field with all due respect

[charred hearth]

when viewing a dinosaurs parental care, would you look at birds or reptiles for refrence?

[arctic crane]

I'm a lot more suspicious of pack hunting in dinosaurs than I am of some kind of parental care

[stiff osprey]

both certainly were true of some dinosaurs. but pack hunting is much harder to prove

[tiny holly]

both, it likely varied

[queen oar]

So, I'm mostly insistence of parental care in Theropods being used to pass down skills and culture, because that's simply what you see in both ends of extant archosaurs...

Both birds and crocodilians rely on some form of display to reproduce, this can either be visual or/and auditory. However for this to occur, or even be stimulated in a species, it needs to first occur... Somehow.

I'm didn't disagree that other forms of parental care exists, or parental care can occur for different reasons, it's just that I'm particularly focused on Display, and skills associated to Display, because that's the closest thing you can imagine, by phylogeny and what we can observe on Dinosaurs. It doesn't help that almost every form of them, have feathers, crests or some other form of structure

Admittedly, you are not wrong. I am too skeptical, for playing safe for no reason. ( Which I, myself, do not really like )

[arctic crane]

I'm sure some did and I know pack hunting is also a sliding scale. I just find it strange that all dinosaurs in media now are portrayed like wolves or hyenas

[stiff osprey]

media dinosaur 'packs' are based on wolves and lions imo, hyenas are more unique in that they live in large clans but more often than not hunt alone or in small groups

[tiny holly]

courtship/display can be an instinctual thing though. Heaaaps of animals, from fish to birds, rely on displays. Plenty of them kinda just... know how to do it

[scenic flame]

a good general rule is to look at R selection - K selection spectrum, R being animals that focus on making as many offspring as possible, K being animals that only produce a few offspring

[charred hearth]

large sauropods would be closer to R while large therapods would be closer to k right?

[tiny holly]

How instincts arise in an animal in the first place is a whooole other complicated thing

[queen oar]

They can, it's possible. I really don't have a counter-argument, I just tend to imagine it being more beneficial by them acquiring experiences from practicing with other individuals, like Male Triceratopses just fighting for fun, for example.

[arctic crane]

Komodo dragons are an interesting one as well. We don't hunt in packs but they do sometimes mob large prey

[scenic flame]

I'm quite certain most are instinctual, culture is extremely, extremely rare in animals

[charred hearth]

the only animals i can think about having culture is, elephants, whales ( speficially orca's ) and apes

[little mauve]

It's a tendency across crocodylia that parental care is highly variable

[tiny holly]

its not unusual for it to be a bit of both. A young animal might understand the basic gist of how to perform courtship, but kinda suck at it until they observe more experienced individuals

[little mauve]

Animals can learn a lot independently too, an alligator has to teach itself how to tackle prey at different sizes with different modes of defense

[queen oar]

I mean, realistically, it's pretty hard to imagine that a species depending on Display for mating, will be just doing the same thing over and over. As it simply wouldn't incentivize any diversity within the species.

[charred hearth]

do orca's wearing salmon as hats count as culture?

[queen oar]

I should've included competition too, but i'm too slow, like a snail

[arctic crane]

It should

[tiny holly]

i mean, that's how a lot of animals do it lol. I'd argue most animals that do courtship just do the same thing each and every time. if it aint broke dont fix it

[fickle sparrow]

last i checked aren't animals often incapable of courtship if their needs aren't met?

[queen oar]

Yes, they do courtship, but I'm more saying that technically, as the more competitive it gets between individuals, there's technically a stimulus or incentive for individuals to essentially be more... Creative, somehow

Realistically, they can't just invent something, because that's their body we are talking about. But this can stimulate higher individual diversity, and it does tend to happen, in some ways.

[tiny holly]

But they do, otherwise how do new courtship behaviours arise in the many, many species that perform courtship instinctually?

I would argue that's most animals in fact, considering how common courtship displays are in fish and lizards. It's all instinctive behaviour. As animals evolve, instinctive behaviours evolve too

[fickle sparrow]

I feel like creativity in courtship only matters for species where that really becomes a factor
Humans and various birds come to mind -- but there's numerous species where individuals all do effectively the same thing, but the "winner" is the one who "does it better"

[tiny holly]

Yeah, that's kind of what drives a lot of courtship. Whichever animal is more appealing is the one that gets the bag. It's why peacock trains get more and more ridiculous. It has nothing to do with any sort of learnt behaviour from the males, it simply has to do with the females selecting for males with bigger and bigger trains

[queen oar]

I mean, I don't know. Maybe, I'm too doubtful, but like... If we are considering it being a Instinctual Behavior, and per say... a Individual of that particular species has something unique inherited from one of their parents somehow, or learned something that made it's display different from other individua...

Wouldn't that imply that in some way it went and done something different than what their instincts would usually guide them to do? ( Assuming Instinct work like that, because I don't know either )

[tiny holly]

There's a lot we still need to learn about how exactly instincts work and manifest in an animal's behaviours. They're kind of an enigma! So I'm weary to speak too confidently on it here. But generally you can assume instincts evolve in much the same way a physical trait evolves: a small mutation or change in an organism gives them a slight benefit in their environment and makes them more likely to pass on their genes. How instincts evolve and change I'm not exactly sure, but they clearly do because. Y'know. -gestures broadly at the sheer variety in instinctive behaviours-

[little mauve]

Instinct is any behavior that doesn't come from prior learning

[tiny holly]

An animal may be born with it's brain wired in such a way that makes it behave eeeever so slightly differently from the norm. And perhaps this gives them an advantage in some way

[queen oar]

We need observation

[little mauve]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-55894-1 can always count on cichlids for any study on evolution

"Here we show that the evolution of a courtship behavior in Malawi cichlid fish is associated with rapid, extensive, and specific diversification of orosensory, gustatory centers in the hindbrain."

[wind prairie]

quick reminder that lethaeus (an immature one at that) is like the size of allosaurus

[queen oar]

Should put Cichlids to play Ace Combat and see what that results into

[hardy sentinel]

Could Nanotyrannus theoretically jump

[arctic crane]

Horrifying. I wonder how fast those could run

[wind prairie]

I've seen 30+ mph thrown around, and "fastest non avian theropod besides ornithomimids"
so kind of horrifying

[white matrix]

Imagine being a 15 year old and your already considered an apex predator in most ecosystems

[hardy sentinel]

Wasn't Jane only 11?

[white matrix]

11-15

[bright veldt]

The newest paper gave a range of 8-14 I believe?

[arctic crane]

Common dinosaurian w

[balmy oyster]

Pretty fast, surprisingly

[bright veldt]

Probably the fastest ever dinosaurs known next to ornithomimids fast.

[runic heart]

That’s a pretty small allosaurus,

[white matrix]

unsurprisingly have you seen the legs on that Thang?

[arctic crane]

I'm going to be honest I'm not that surprised they got them big legs

[balmy oyster]

Taking into consideration of the theropod breathing system & internal chambering, thing was probably not only running fast but for a while.

[wind prairie]

"SHE WAS ONLY 14!!" has a new meaning

[white matrix]

And with that note it's time for me to go to bed

[hardy sentinel]

Wild that Jane was so much younger yet so much larger than the others (which were hunting Trikes)

Imagine a full grown Nanotyrannus lathaeus and what it probably hunted

[queen oar]

Not-funny🎵

Didn't-Laugh🎵

[wind prairie]

the painted dog of hell creek, if I had to make a comparison
lets just hope they didn't feed the same way-

[white matrix]

Probably was hunting fully grown alamosaurus in gangs of 2

[arctic crane]

How long can ostriches run again? Isn't it for some ridiculous time

[hardy sentinel]

Nanotyrannus is the honey badger of the hell creek confirmed

[balmy oyster]

I like to think they did.

The local edmonto would be horrified

[bright veldt]

Apparently ostriches can cruise at 30 mph. Mind you that's casual cruising speed. When they put on the gas they're the fastest things in Africa aside from the cheetah and some gazelles.

[wind prairie]

thank god reptiles don't have externally hanging genitals to grab onto-

[queen oar]

Did you really need to now?

[balmy oyster]

More evidence why dinosaurs were superior??

[arctic crane]

Really make some of the medium sized theropods more scary. Large enough to take down a human without much of a fight. Small enough to actually take interest in us as prey. Fast enough to run down and the endurance to track from miles

[queen oar]

You guys wanna know the funny too?

Between all Tyrannosaurs recently described, Nanotyrannus is the only who's the most complete so far.

[sharp jackal]

Gn guys. Today was fun

[hardy sentinel]

"are the majority of land vertebrates reptiles"

"No it's birds"

[tough parcel]

This is because AI

[queen oar]

Google AI is awful ( All kinds are, to be honest )

[arctic crane]

There were some sauropods in late Cretaceous laramidia right? But not in hell creek?

[balmy oyster]

Yes, and all known sauropod material is more down south

[arctic crane]

Thanks

[balmy oyster]

np

[hardy sentinel]

I wonder if there are any serious Nanotyrannus deniers out there that know of the paper

[balmy oyster]

I mean if nano denier no. 1 agrees with the assessment and research of the paper, then there should be no reason as to why you should try to find a way to ‘disprove’ it

[charred hearth]

how possible is it that there was a 3rd tyrannosaurid living in hell creek? that isnt nano or tyrannosaurus

[hardy sentinel]

There isn't even a second Tyrannosaurid in the hell creek, Nano isn't a Tyrannosaurid

But due to fossilization and it being a rare process, there's a possibility there were more than 2 Eutyrannosaurid genera in the hell creek

[bright veldt]

It is potentially the most universally agreed upon paper for how drastic of a shakeup it is I've ever seen in paleontology over the past decade at least.

[arctic crane]

They'd be the new pariahs lol. Jokes aside I do wonder if there will be an effort to claim that the name is non-viable and they'll have to call it something else. But I doubt it, nano is real. The evidence is way too strong

[hardy sentinel]

It's like when you're throwing multiple dice at once and they all land on sixes

[charred hearth]

on a scale 1 - 10, how massive would you guys say the nano paper was?

[hardy sentinel]

There's not a way for them to claim the name is non viable since the holotype for Nanotyrannus is an actual Nanotyrannus

Only wins for the Nanotyrannus fan base

[balmy oyster]

10

[charred hearth]

do you think the paper saying troodon is real will be just as massive?

[hardy sentinel]

10, it made the hell creek seem like an actual ecosystem instead of just being Rex slams everything

[arctic crane]

Was the nano hate anything more than memes though? I mean we were just following the science and the evidence changed. That's how it works. I'm just glad that the ecology of laramidia can finally make sense in my head lol

[hardy sentinel]

Isn't Cambridge trying to establish a neotype right now?

[balmy oyster]

Honestly I feel it won’t be AS massive, but it will still definitely make its rounds across the internet

Now what WOUKD be gargantuan is any more material assignable that proves it’s gigantic

[bright veldt]

No because unlike it nano has never actually been seriously real before this. Troodon's impact is barely anything by comparison when it's the only troodontid people know exist.

[thorn grove]

10 because it could have significant implications for our understanding of T. rex ontogeny afaik in addition to it being Nano existing again

[hardy sentinel]

Troodon had more impact on people than Nanotyrannus did. Nanotyrannus is the niche one here

[balmy oyster]

Some people genuinely hated the idea of a second tyrannosaurid species in the hell creek and dismissed everything as it just being a juvenile tyrannosaurus, even when provided with direct evidence and reasoning.

[hardy sentinel]

Tyrannosaurus fans finding out that Rex wasn't an apex predator at every stage of its life

[arctic crane]

That's crazy to me. It's not even that far fetched of an idea. I mean we see it in Mongolia

[charred hearth]

i feel like nano was only known as " the juvie rex " before this

[bright veldt]

yes

[wind prairie]

11
this doesn't just change hell creek or rex growth, this changes how we view tyrannosaurids as a whole. At the same time a lot of new albertosaurines are getting described soon

[charred hearth]

so...would juvie rex look like its previous depictions or no?

like, almost all of the juvie rex's are now nano, so do we now not know what it looks like?

[hardy sentinel]

I think it would be best to just look at baby Tarbosaurus depictions until we find more baby Rexes since we know what to look for now

[balmy oyster]

Likely to be similar to tarbosaurus

[hardy sentinel]

Nanotyrannus's official description is actually ground breaking because now an issue is out of the way and allows Rex fanboys to learn more about it

[charred hearth]

btw , how do we all feel about this ?

[undone rapids]

Pretty nice, dryptosaurs are cool and now we have one that's 100% complete

[charred hearth]

we do?

[hardy sentinel]

Works for me

[lofty creek]

who can explain to me that how Jinbeisaurus went into Albertasaurinae and remain there in every version

[undone rapids]

Dueling dinos tyrannosaur is a Nanotyrannus that's 100% complete

[charred hearth]

do you think any existing eutyrannosaur will get added to nanotyrannidae?

[hardy sentinel]

Why hasn't Wikipedia updated the type species 😭

[charred hearth]

i mean, do you wanna do it?

https://tenor.com/view/bighorn-sheep-katav-mountain-dew-combat-fight-gif-12410499907194562754

[fossil ingot]

Small Allo but does work for comparison
Jane is Leggy asf tho

[charred hearth]

would i survive if a pachy did this too me

[hardy sentinel]

Last time I edited something it got booted

I was editing the Chasmosaurinae page to show the two Torosaurus species as closest relatives of each other (just like it was with the Trikes) but that got rejected for no reason

So I'ma not update commonly used Wikipedia pages

[charred hearth]

why is titano in triceatopsini and not near penta?

[hardy sentinel]

The tree is wrong because it shows Torosaurus Utahensis to be as closely related to Nedoceratops as it is to Torosaurus Latus instead of being in its own branch like Triceratops p and h are

[charred hearth]

@balmy oyster you seem quite intellegant about ceratopsians, so could you enlighten me about titano's placement in the tree?

[hardy sentinel]

I dunno if the person who makes the Wikipedia page decides what gets changed or people who moderate Wikipedia in general but apparently they didn't like me correcting their phylogenetic tree

[hardy sentinel]

fixed it, lets hope it sticks

lemme know if I need to correct anything else

[severe yew]

you are all welcomed 😎

[balmy oyster]

It flip flops between either something close to penta (or even just penta itself) or basalmost in triceratopsini.

As of somewhere recently however, there was confirmation there would be a paper that explores its placement as a triceratopsin, considering that it has features not too far off from triceratopsin grade chasmosaurs + pentaceratopsian-like frill features in the past having been made with plaster which skews its penta justification (since the frill isn’t complete)

[wind prairie]

nanotyrannus got me feeling wholesome
I love you guys

[balmy oyster]

Nanotyrannus made my day feel better

[hardy sentinel]

This is the best week of my life

Nanotyrannus plus new Edmontosaurus mummies

[severe yew]

behold, i have arrived

[wind prairie]

unironically I've been like grinning all day and this morning when the paper first came out I was unironically giggling and throbbing around

[arctic crane]

How complete is the nano holotype? The new info seems pretty cut and dry to dusting nano from a juvie rex. That's just the benefit of hindsight I know but it's kinda wild

[wind prairie]

the nano holotype was just this skull iirc

[arctic crane]

Ahh that makes sense

[balmy oyster]

The Nanotyrannus lancensis of uncontrollable throbbing

[wind prairie]

what true joy feels like

[balmy oyster]

I finally feel something other than emptiness yay

[arctic crane]

It's been awhile since I've seen paleo paper drop with this much hype. I'm trying to think back to them last time and I think it might be spino's tail. Idk but can't wait for all the new info we'll get from this finding

[balmy oyster]

We still have schimitar spino but it keeps getting leaked lmao

Also I have a feeling it won’t really answer anything and instead try to push another narrative towards spino and how it was “more terrestrial than we thought you guys! It could not swim trust me bro”

At least it’s gonna be cool and I hope it preserves neural spines so we can figure out how it fits with robust and slender morph stuff

[queen oar]

tbh, yeah. That's pretty legit to how Spinosaurus papers have been going as of lately

[balmy oyster]

We finally reached a point where the only arguments about spino are if it can swim or not, and not if it looked like a seal or a b2 bomber for the 7th time a week

[arctic crane]

I'd be shocked if it turned out spino actually couldn't swim at all. Not saying it was an active fisher, but an animal that spent that much time in the water should probably be able to swim

[queen oar]

Can anyone publish a paper who just goes like " Spinosaurus is a semi-aquatic theropod of unknown affinities " and then we can put that to rest?

Like, legit, we don't even have a good idea of how active it was on land or water, so it's better to just put a stop to it until we find more material that we can use for those kinda of studies

By evidence I mean like, evidence of interspecific interaction, predator and prey relations, fish, dinosaurs, etc.

[balmy oyster]

And a paddle tail, and shorter limbs for less drag, and higher bone density, and piscivorous diet that wouldn’t be enough from tiny fry at the shore….

[arctic crane]

Plus evidence that it ate large bottom feeding fish. Those usually love to hang out in shallow waters exclusively

[thorn grove]

Spinosaurus didn't actually exist as a normal species they simply spawned in full size and then drowned trying to eat

[queen oar]

I mean, yeah, but that's because that's the only thing we have preserved showing that it did interact with Spinosaurus. But like, even then, it kinda of also shows that the interaction wasn't one sided? If you count that evidence of pathologies on a Sub-Adult Spinosaurus

[arctic crane]

The giant sawfish fighting back is cool, but does It support one hunting style over the other?

[balmy oyster]

Everyone knows the small car sized mawsonia loves to crawl on shore and die

[queen oar]

not really. It just would mean that Spinosaurus is not exactly extremely specialized, and more generalist. Which as far as I know, it's not too far-fetched, given the analogues to Spinosaurus' snout, crocodilians, aren't that picky either.

[arctic crane]

This is why the baryonychinae are superior. What less drama

[queen oar]

" Ah yes... Fragmentary subfamily number 445... You are so much better than everyone else "

Like, I get it that we have, Two more properly preserved taxa there...

but that's kinda of it, chief

[arctic crane]

Baryonyx and suchomimus are at least nice to me

[queen oar]

True, they are less rude.

Spinosaurus keeps throwing insults at everyone all the time.

[balmy oyster]

Only 2 well complete specimens, everything else is a tooth and a vert that looks like any rock you find at a river

[queen oar]

Talking about totally dubious fossils, what of Ostafrikasaurus? Does anyone know what is the current condition with that thing?

[arctic crane]

Lol. I don't actually have much skin in the spinosaurus game. I have no idea if it was an active Hunter, wader, or if it had an alligator snapping turtle thing going on idk. I personally just assume it could swim

[balmy oyster]

Ceratosaurid and for some reason there’s two species

[arctic crane]

Hey, two well preserved specimens from two different species is better than other dino groups lol

[queen oar]

If it was a Alligator Snapper it would had no legs at all.

Practically one of the differences between common snappers and alligator snappers are the legs, because of their lifestyle and methods of hunting Alligator snappers don't have any legs at all and have problems climbing different surfaces, while Common Snappers have longer legs, because they move more, tend to climb different surfaces a lot, and also have a longer neck.

Fun fact: If anyone got a Pet Alligator Snapper with long legs, uuuuh... You probably have a Hybrid of the two, which is a thing

[queen oar]

Also, when did that happen???

[arctic crane]

Yeah, I don't actually believe the alligator snapping turtle theory. I don't really believe the loon theory either

[opal acorn]

so is nanotyrannus confirmed? or not confirmed

idk if theyre just being silly and lying or actually telling the truth that they found a paper about it

[white matrix]

overwhelming evidence confirming nanotyrannus is its own genus

[opal acorn]

ah, thats good to hear. well what about this? i find it difficult to believe evidence can be effectively found on any dino social behaviour (unless i misread what they said)

[balmy oyster]

I propose a new (and seemingly crazy idea), what if…

||hippo.||

[arctic crane]

Horrifying. I like it

[green helm]

HAPPY HALLOWEEN

[runic rover]

Happy Halloween to Carr, man got the jumpscare of his life 🤭

Now I wait patiently for someone to study the NHM-PV R.2981(a) and find out DC2 Giga is real

[runic heart]

I like the idea that spinos could hop or trudge along the bottom of shallow rivers due to their dense bones.

I don’t think that’s how it works, but it sounds cool.

[runic heart]

Got some evidence of new giga material from the same site as the holotype. No clue when it’s being revealed. What we really need to rediscover is those phantom Tarbosaurus that went missing. One of which may or may not have had a dewlap.

And both of which had a ton of scale impressions. At this point, I’m willing to believe these specimens are/were in fact real.

[brave nova]

The big three

[runic heart]

You know what I’m thinking? Imposter nanotyrannus. Sneaks its eggs into a Rex nest to be raised by the Rex. Like some modern birds.

[steady smelt]

Similar to cuckoos?

[runic rover]

I was thinking the exact same thing

[bright veldt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/864787072739704832/1433781762143686820/IMG_4646.png?ex=6905f0d2&is=69049f52&hm=2ffdf50121f8ae3dc30cd8bcc1412ab5e92eeb197f2166172b9e435db49461e8&

[lavish frigate]

What does Jack Horner think of Nano? I don’t recall if I’ve heard him talk about it

[stiff osprey]

Horner was one of the first proponents of nano being a juvenile rex

[sharp jackal]

Was yesterday all a dream?

It has to all be too good to be true... right? There's no way that everything i said about nano was true... right?

[brave nova]

Yea. It’s actually a juvenile stegosaurus

[sharp jackal]

Thyreophorans haven't caught an L since ~10 ka when they went extinct 🥹

[lavish frigate]

Bro was predestined from the beginning of time to always be wrong about everything

Baby Rex looks so dumb now I hate him 😭 🙏

[celest kindle]

#nanotyrannussweep

also a new edmontosaurus mummy rewriting our understanding of their anatomy, what a week!

[bronze ibex]

Dinosaur bones were 3D printed

[proper fog]

Look at the skeleton of a platypus.... do yall really think scientists could accurately predict what that thing looks like based off its skeleton...

[random lance]

FR

Same goes for a hippo, imagine if we only had the skeletons

[crisp pelican]

Obviously not but then we go off impressions of fur, possible mummified then fossilized specimens, and related species and we can get a general idea of it ofc only going off of only bones doesn’t work

[fierce quarry]

They would get a pretty good idea yes

[still patrol]

Yall no fun fr, people in here never r

[random lance]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-krabs-smallest-violin-sponge-bob-square-pants-gif-10796371

[still patrol]

[bronze ibex]

If bones were real then how can boneless chicken wings exist. Check mate archeologists

[still patrol]

AHAAHAHAAA

[random lance]

If marine life is going extinct then why is crabfest back at Red Lobster’s?

[bronze ibex]

Spitting facts

[lavish frigate]

Edmontosaurus created dinosaur bones while it was in musth to trick paleontologists into thinking anything else lived with it

[sharp jackal]

My life is over. If i can't be the only person who knows nano is valid, then... then who am I? 🥺

[tough parcel]

Honestly this pumpkin carving is beautiful

[sharp jackal]

Fraudwatch 2025 🥹🥹🥹

[ancient crystal]

Honestly the only bad part about this piece is the baby rex

[lavish frigate]

Please tell me he didn’t look like that

[ancient crystal]

I will also stand by nanotyrannus being a terrible name for a dinosaur

"Oh, its just like this other dinosaur we found in this formation but... small "

[violet hill]

So does this mean we will get another carnivore in path of titans?

[ancient crystal]

It would've been so funny if the paper after being hyped up as proof of nano even before its release actually argued the triceratops specimen was actually a different species

[queen oar]

Nobody gets that benefit I believe.

[queen oar]

btw is this a Nanotyrannus now?

[stiff osprey]

looks like one

[sharp jackal]

Wdym now?

[tough parcel]

Honestly would love an Alio sub that gives a nod to NanoT

[queen oar]

I'm more asking because there's no catalogue number

[tough parcel]

Private specimen iirc

[queen oar]

Fuuuu-

[tough parcel]

Rule of thumb is that no catalogue number = private specimen

[stiff osprey]

second rule of thumb: if it looks like it could have solved the nanotyrannus debate earlier than 2025, it's a private specimen

[wind prairie]

I think it's really cool personally

[sharp jackal]

Im confused? Hasn't this debate been settled for like 5 years?

[tough parcel]

Scan, DMs before you do smth

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, I don't know I just think its a poor name personally

[tough parcel]

Valid but consider that the new species translates to "Tiny tyrant from the infernal region" and that goes kinda hard

Amen, we love a good capybara

[full lagoon]

Everyone must love capybara

[hoary trellis]

Nope.

[sharp jackal]

Wow 😲 this is the best costume I've seen all day 👏

[tough parcel]

Galli is such a huge chicken

Hoping I can get this done for Thanksgiving

[ancient crystal]

Oh, the species name is pretty cool, but I think with nano not even being all that tiny to begin with the genus name just doesn't do the animal justice

When I think of a "nanotyrannus" I don't think of an animal larger than a man

[remote shadow]

It does roll off of the tongue in a delightful way however

Certainly one up from whatever the giga crowd is trying to do with their naming schemes 😄

[sharp jackal]

I wouldn't say its necessarily a misnomer, but its definitely a bit lazy. They coulda been more creative

[tough parcel]

Tbh that’s fair but consider if you put NanoT against T.rex, it becomes very small very fast

Venator, check DMs btw, you might find it useful

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, but I think either way you have an issue.

Naming it after the already known tyrannosaurus is pretty lazy (and ignores that most tyrannosaurs are closer to nano in size than rex) and if it wasn't named with tyrannosaurus in mind, you're still calling an animal the size of a polar bear tiny

[wind prairie]

ok wtf
galli is big but I don't remember it being that big

[tough parcel]

Nah that’s fair, you’ve got good points

I’m just providing reasoning why Nano’s still a decent name. Maybe not the most amazing but that’s more subjective territory

[sharp jackal]

I mean theres plenty of taxa named relative to others. But yea I hear it relative to the entire superfam nano isn't uniquely small

[potent bobcat]

Would non-avian dinosaurs have yawned?

[compact leaf]

basically every animal group yawns so yeah

[potent bobcat]

Fair enough.

[queen oar]

Is it the Carr thing that I shared last night?

[blazing mural]

Hey, is it true that of resently that "nano tyranusaurs" is in discussion about being valid again?

[queen oar]

Not a discussion. They became valid. With 2 pretty complete specimens, and they identified two species now.

[blazing mural]

Really? I thought it was only one specimen that there were able to study resently.

[woeful falcon]

I think the best outcome could have come about for its naming lol, even if it is the size of a polar bear

On grand scheme of tyrannosaurs, the proper big ones dwarf it

[queen oar]

So, with Bloody Mary, they were able to identify Jane as also another Nanotyrannus specimen, alongside other specimens previously referred as younger Tyrannosauruses, with now only " Rocky The Tyrannosaurus " and i guess " Chomper the Tyrannosaurus " being valid younger Tyrannosauruses

[woeful falcon]

Would have been real silly for adult nanotyrannus to be among the 2+ ton boys

[eternal flax]

So uh

[stiff osprey]

''teen rex'' and ''dinotyrannus'' are also valid young rexes

[eternal flax]

The Nanotyrannus fiasco is all over the place again ladies and gentlemen

[queen oar]

Oh yeah, i forgot about those

[undone rapids]

Well.... jane hadn't stopped growing so its not impossible

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but even so it is no where near them and we have an idea of what adults were like now

[blazing mural]

Honestly that really cool. I only heard it was only one because the specimen was a younger look but it was 20 years old of its death. My stupid question in my head was, could it be a type of dwarfisum? But if it's more than one. Im glad I'm wrong. Love seeing stuff like happening. Learning new stuff from resent discovery.

[queen oar]

Genuine question, because I was doing a project of T. mcraeensis... But does the Nanotyrannus study talk about the Javelina Tyrannosaur? That one pretty small and random Maastricthian Tyrannosaurus maxilla

[undone rapids]

If it was a dwarf, it would have an adult t rex skull with a tiny body and legs, but yeah there are Big differences.

by LiterallyMiguel

[undone rapids]

Don't think so.

[queen oar]

Well then, I have no obligation to consider it's a potential southern Nanotyrannus

[ancient crystal]

Breaking news, in an incredible discovery, Tyrannosaurus has been identified as the first known amniote to develop new vertebrae as it grew /j

[blazing mural]

I appreciate the clarification.

[undone rapids]

It is thought to have been an adaptation it gained to replace old vertebrae that had been broken by other Rexes while fighting!!!

[ancient crystal]

No, no, tyrannosaurus developed the increased vertebral count in order to do the sliding godzilla kick

https://tenor.com/view/kick-dropkick-godzilla-fight-gif-14788399

[wind prairie]

seems like Jane could've been as a grown adult

[stiff osprey]

unlikely, they estimate her full grown size to be around 1200kg

[queen oar]

Me when the robust Tyrannosaur ( Shocking )

[wind prairie]

it was more speculative but yeah I doubt she got much bigger

[ashen wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-gif-13213745514253779481

[ashen wedge]

So….. is Nanotyrannus now recognized?

[wind prairie]

back and better than ever
there's also 2 species now

[ashen wedge]

I am glad that science is growing, and our understanding is growing as well

But then again, science and paleontology is confusing when new information is released and the paper came out early, so I think it will be important to wait for more information to clear it out

I’m just going for getting clarity from rushed out work, is all, as I like to see more of the paper and final thoughts from the authors and not rushing it out

[tough parcel]

They've not rushed it out, that can be guaranteed

As well as the fact that other researchers, such as Holtz and Carr, have already expressed explicit support for Nano's revival

[remote shadow]

In the grand scheme of mega therapods? Not really

Also points at MiCROraptor

[charred hearth]

so was nanotyrannus hunting trike / toro?

[undone rapids]

Maybe, we'll know more after they research the juvi trike with nano

[charred hearth]

so, what nano's most common prey wa

• pachy
• lepto
• struthi
• young trike, edmonto and toro

[ashen wedge]

Alright

[fierce quarry]

MEGAraptor

[steep sundial]

hey paleontology community how we feeling

[charred hearth]

how is Nanotyrannidae defined? what are the characteristics that get something put in there?

[queen oar]

I'm sorry, but when you say that, it reminds me of the...

" How do you do, Fellow Kids? " meme

lmfao

[wind prairie]

in my mind this thing is an ornithomimid's biggest fear
besides nano: who else could catch one?? Maybe a troodontid- but those might not be powerful enough to actually take one down

[charred hearth]

archeraptor

[wind prairie]

bro acheroraptor was not catching up to an ornithomimid if it didn't ambush

[charred hearth]

but nano was?

[wind prairie]

yes lmao do you see the legs on this thing??? (idk why the image is so small lol)
at least it has a much better chance than any dromaeosaur

[queen oar]

https://fxtwitter.com/ddinodan/status/1984103341136449667

dino dan (@ddinodan)

two nanos of the same tyrant
︀︀
︀︀#paleoart #sciart #slayleoart

**💬 8 🔁 168 ❤️ 795 👁️ 7.9K **

FxTwitter · Oct 31, 2025, 3:41 AM

[remote shadow]

So Jane is implied to be a full grown Nano then?

[fierce quarry]

A second Nano species

[wind prairie]

no no, Jane is a different species of nanotyrannus that is bigger than the fully grown lancensis specimen from the Dueling Dinosaurs, yet she is still immature

[queen oar]

Here's a real question: Even if she was immature by other factors, was she immature by size?

Per say, is there reason to believe the other species ( Nanotyrannus lethaeus ) would get larger?

[arctic crane]

Nano's skull next to one of the authors of the paper shows it's not exactly a small animal

Not so nano tyrannus

[green helm]

rather a medium sized carnivore to me

[remote shadow]

I believe it has to do with some markers that suggest she wasn’t full grown at time of death. Which at least according to the exhibit, unknown causes

I want to say it’s something in the skull and the hips but that’s half a forgotten memory

[runic heart]

So nanotyrannus did in fact get a bit bigger? How much bulkier realistically?

[karmic nexus]

we’re going back in time to get nanotyrannus off the menu. thats right. we’re going back in time to get nanotyrannus OFF the menu.

[queen oar]

I mean, yes, but It's not exactly unknown per say, finding Tyrannosaurs with seemingly adult-sizes but for example, skeletally immature. I could be wrong here, but even Sue had some bones that still weren't exactly fully mature yet, but they/them don't seem to be getting any larger any time soon.

[little mauve]

Thescelosaurus was probably the most common dinosaur herbivore below 1000kg according to microfossil surveys. Hard to tell how common ornithomimids were because theyre toothless and therefore don't show up as much in the microfossil record but we know for sure thescelosaurus was common

[fluid inlet]

This skull is big compared to the woman the size of Quinn

[bronze storm]

Obliterates a human being bro

[balmy oyster]

Why are they kinda pinheaded

“Why is there two nanotyrannus species?! That’s way too much!!”

Giraffes:

[charred hearth]

i forgot that existed

[coral forge]

The humble corvus
pretty sure anoles also have like 400 species

[runic heart]

Thescelosaurus were probably prime meat for nano.

[fluid inlet]

Honestly it reminds me a lot of alioararmius or however you say it

[queen oar]

You wanna know the difference between these species and species in Paleo ( Most of the times ) ?

[little mauve]

It has that effect on people hence the species name neglectus

Interesting animal though and possibly the most common large animal in hell creek

[arctic crane]

I think the skull of an animal that looks like it can swallow a grown woman whole is still pretty impressive. Sure it's smaller that Trex but that's a bit unfair there isn't much else on that level

[fluid inlet]

Yeah very true I find people that have to compare everything to Rex to be quite dull.

[bright veldt]

Part of this just comes from the fact that there’s quite the difference between sexually mature and proper skeletal maturity. Jane has evidence of breeding despite being on the younger side, and to my knowledge sauropod maturity is also hard to gauge with this.

[arctic crane]

I'm not sure what the point of comparing to Rex even is. Not like that's a good size comparison in my head. I've never seen a rex irl. I just make these animals at would be the largest land carnivorous around if they were alive today seem small

[queen oar]

yup.

[arctic crane]

As a fan of medium size theropods I'm having a pretty good time. #backinhell

[queen oar]

" Alamotyrannus "

[cursive gyro]

https://youtu.be/yJw1WUXIFG8?si=cWC-HwLiPfh_3vSj

[analog helm]

Just wait until Nanotyrannus gets the Saurophaganax treatment

[arctic crane]

Maybe. This does kinda look like a chimera if you close your eyes and imagine one there

[analog helm]

I was referring to that fact that Saurophaganax was determined to be atomically different enough from Allosaurus to be considered a new genus rather than a species of Allosaurus.

[queen oar]

Nobody tell them about the Sauropod paper

[analog helm]

I know about the Sauropod paper, but wasn't some of Saurophaganax's material referrable to Allosaurus? If not then I take back my reference of Nanotyrannus ending up like Sauro

[queen oar]

The point is that in general they found that, yes Saurophaganax had unique things, had some chimaeric nature to it, but mostly... They found that most of the material wasn't as distinguishable to Allosaurus sp.

[tough parcel]

Sauro is dead

It's either A. anax, Allosaurus sp. (bones are too poor in quality), or a sauropod of some kind

[queen oar]

Don't think so entirely. We don't get good things in this world.

[fluid inlet]

What the hell is this

[tough parcel]

Trackway scaling

Instant L

[arctic crane]

I'm confused? What are you thinking nano is going to be different than? There's already two species. Any they think it's pretty basel

[fluid inlet]

New trackway scaling 🔥🔥🔥🔥 W

[analog helm]

I am not saying Nanotyrannus isn't valid--just that people shouldn't be so willing to jump the wagon when things like Saurophaganax, Troodon, and Brontosaurus to an extent are so often referred to as invalid and valid at the same time. While the current research sees that Nano is now a completly different genus with its own species, paleontology is ever-evolving and shouldn't be treated under the lense of whatever some famous people said must be true

[fluid inlet]

Broome Giant aka Indian titan victimizer , argentinosaurus victimizer

But theoretically can a sauropod get that big ? 🤣

[arctic crane]

Normally I'd agree, but they'd have to provide some crazy evidence to disprove nano this time. Especially with 2 external well preserved skeletons attached to it

[balmy oyster]

Basically the holotype might represent a sauropod, while most referred material likely belongs to allosaurid dinosaurs of sortd

[mellow prism]

37m isnt so bad, but im pretty sure it is scaling issue. I mean, this huge track is actually two tracks overlapping and with that taken into account you get a giant, but not larger than Argentinosaurus and other largest sauropods iirc

[queen oar]

So, I think it's relatively important to note that: You are comparing the case of Nanotyrannus, with Taxa who had entirely different historical context

Saurophaganax became Allosaurus anax or Allosaurus sp. because it was found that it's composite was mostly chimaeric, with a Diplodocoidea involved in the middle of it all, but generally had few distinct and non-distinct feats to Allosaurus;

Troodon was a fu-#$%@! tooth

Brontosaurus is simply a case of animals who are pretty similar to other existing animals in it's formation, the difference was that we found cranial material that showed it was different to Apatosaurus...

Nanotyrannus only existed in the form of private specimens, and it was that for the longest time... Until it changed recently

[mellow prism]

unless it's a giant bolivian megaraptorid

[fluid inlet]

It’s a interesting conversation for sure , not sure how the foot prints scale to other huge sauropods. I’m not dismissive of it being a huge sauropod.

Like Mongolian Titan tho , material would be nice.

[arctic crane]

Why is it allosaurus anax? What happened to allosaurus maximus?

[tough parcel]

It's still an L 💔

[mellow prism]

...

[fluid inlet]

Ignore him he’s a troll

[ashen wedge]

Is this size possible for sauropods?

[fluid inlet]

That was my question as well.

[mellow prism]

it's probably a bit overscaled

[compact leaf]

footprints are also famously prone to deformation, estimating size off of a footprint is never going to be especially reliable unless you know the exact conditions and timing it’s made in

[arctic crane]

Is the claw the only evidence we have of a large dromaeosaur in hell creek?

[tough parcel]

If you can prove that megaraptorids are uniquely exempt from all footprint warping then I'll agree

But you can't because they're still animals 💔

[winter marsh]

maybe they had comically morphable feet

[mellow prism]

its not exactly like you can just say “the tracks are distorted” and leave it at that. Thats something you evaluate based on the actual tracks themselves. Besides, theropod feet are different from sauropod ones, they are not as fleshy. Sure, distortion and other factors matter, but the acropodium can still be estimated in many cases

[compact leaf]

there’s a reason we don’t use footprints for anything more than basic trace in modern wildlife science, it’s too variable to say anything specific about size

[fluid inlet]

Facts

[tough parcel]

Well Cuttlefish said it pretty nicely

We're not dismissing it but as a strict estimate for size, they're bad

[charred hearth]

thoughts?