paleontology

[bright veldt]

Ehh we dunno, the "mcreensis" one is from a formation whose time flip-flops

[stiff osprey]

possibly 75 mya if the judith river one is tyranno

[balmy oyster]

the judith river/two medicine one, I'd say so

[fossil ingot]

I choose to Believe...

[stiff osprey]

well, it is tyranno, i should say if it really is judith river

[bright veldt]

I am so confused on what you're even on about here. Dude was not saying that boxy megalo is correct.

[charred hearth]

when was the earliest rex itself? im gonna assume judith is mcreenis

[fossil ingot]

We never Argue for Torvo to have a Boxy Skull at all, none of the recons we shared have it
Torvo and Megalosaurus Skull haven't change in alot of time
The Issue Specifically here is the Elvis Mount Skull been Distorted and Slightly Crushed

[balmy oyster]

what...are you talking about? (this didn't reply for some reason but I hope I get my point across)

[fossil ingot]

I am Legit Confuse what you are trying to point out?

[balmy oyster]

that megalosaur skulls aren't that thin, and the posterior region wouldn't have become pinheaded for no reason w/ what we know of respective skull material.

[charred hearth]

are we discussing giant megalo or no?

[fluid inlet]

“Slightly crushed “ = worst reconstruction of all time

Some kid in paleontology chat

[compact leaf]

other megalosaurs have them like the ones posted above

[fossil ingot]

Never said it was the worst reconstruction
But its you saying that, expected smth more original tho

[balmy oyster]

hey that was my line 😠

[fluid inlet]

So what are you arguing bud

[compact leaf]

why would megalosaurus specifically be necessary?

[bright veldt]

Again I feel like we all agree on the end point but for some reason we're still debating.

[fossil ingot]

That the Mount Skull isn't New Material nor a Proper Look at the skull
Thats like saying we should reconstruct skeletal with distored skulls smh

[balmy oyster]

hopefully with the skulls we have compared to elvis, we can see the notable issue that the mount at least has & why people aim to reconstruct it being thicker than how it preserved.

[fossil ingot]

Not even WWD Skull Matches that of the Museum Mount

[bright veldt]

It feels like whether or not torvo's skull is a few inches shorter or longer is creating some kind of psychosis.

[fossil ingot]

This Totally means we should make the Skull like Rex

[compact leaf]

megalosaur hysteria

[fluid inlet]

I said the reconstruction was fine and that the skull might be slightly distorted but it’s not far off lol

So Idk why this conversation still going

[balmy oyster]

the issue was the mount clearly seemed slightly crushed, but some people argue that it looks fine like that & it doesn't need any corrections

[charred hearth]

whats the most underrated formation in y'alls opinion?

[fossil ingot]

I mean
The Mount and a Version with the Skull not distorted are noticiably different
But whatwvee

[bright veldt]

Here's the thing. There's THAT, and people in that club taking it as the "it's crushed" people are saying its super boxy den. Like no.

[balmy oyster]

I gave you proper reasoning but if you came to that conclusion, sadly I don't think you'll understand if further even if I lay it out on paper. 👍

[fossil ingot]

"Other than vibes"
Ahh Yes
Lets Ignore its a Museum Mount, Shows signs of been distorted and Crushed, doesn't match any of the relatives"
But nah
Dw
Its Based on Vibes

[bright veldt]

"slightly crushed" doesn't equal super boxy, no one ever said that. This is just a self-feeding pointless thing.

[balmy oyster]

I don't think anyone here is arguing for it being boxy.

[bright veldt]

Exactly, so why are some people trying to say that is what's being said? Half of the debate is just yelling at cloud.

[balmy oyster]

I have legit no clue since that was never what I was trying to argue for.

[charred hearth]

acting like you were contributing in it to begin with

[compact leaf]

you can see the inside of the naris erupting past the usual attachments, very telltale distortion

[balmy oyster]

personally I have to go with the Bayanshiree, there's a lot of interesting things there and it's got a lot of species variation

[charred hearth]

what i meant to say is that you all should be nicer to rumble as he is trying his best to help you guys out with understanding the true meaning behind what is being

[fossil ingot]

Does Puru's one count?

[bright veldt]

That formation (and it's neighbor Iren Dabasu) are pretty nuts.

[balmy oyster]

absolutely, size armsrace with a turtle is pretty funny

[bright veldt]

That's just alligator evolution in a nutshell I'll be real. It's so iconic deinosuchus copied it.

[marsh tapir]

Please remain polite and respectful while interacting on this server. Do not provoke or antagonize other users.

Refer to our #rules

[charred hearth]

is that a freshwater manatee or was the water brackish?

[wary fable]

My favorite spinosaurid carcharodontosaurus

[bright veldt]

Freshwater, so freshwater manatee ye.

[fossil ingot]

Except Deino copied it the wrong way, Became a Stem Crocodylian and Grandpa can no longer Stand

[balmy oyster]

as some people have said, Puru won by doing absolutely nothing. 🔥

[bright veldt]

Reminder that the no walking thing applies to basically every croc over a ton. Puru is just that guy.

[charred hearth]

im confused about something , are sarco and deino able to death roll or no?

[fossil ingot]

Issue comes
Puru has a More Robust Femur and Specific Adaptations it evolved to help it support its weight alot better than Deino

[fluid inlet]

No.

[bright veldt]

How does this refute what I said? What deinosuchus has going on is just normal for a croc at that size. Puru's exceptional due to said adaptations.

[balmy oyster]

What do you think tyrannosaurus V deinosuchus interactions were like

[runic heart]

So torvos skull is in fact thick, yes?

[charred hearth]

no offense , but it feels like the discussion we're having is getting nowhere as i just feel like we're talking to a wall rn

[stiff osprey]

No, it's small and lipless and has fake lacrimal crests

[fossil ingot]

I wouldn't say Thick
Just not to skinny/slim

Basically looks like a Megalosaurid

[bright veldt]

like basically every torvo reconstruction you've seen since Dinosaur Revolution in 2011

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/dinosaur-revolution-the-watering-hole-dinheirosaurus-supersaurus-lourinhanensis-woodstock-gif-8107309342438951137

[fossil ingot]

Deino seems to have worst walking Capabilities than even a Gator of the same size
Its Femur its surprisingly Gracile despite its size.

Deino is just weird

[bright veldt]

Is this actually true? I thought Random redacted that after looking further into it. Unless the walking paper mentioned this and I missed it.

[compact leaf]

be small and lipless and have fake lacrimal crests apparently

[charred hearth]

i have a question, how many broken bones would the sauropod has sustained from this fall?

[fossil ingot]

Like
Why are you build like this
Deino is so weird

[fluid inlet]

Not a fan of it

[bright veldt]

The paper on alligator/deinosuchus walking seemed to imply that the size constraint on giant crocs as a whole made walking extremely difficult to impossible, which makes sense given the biggest crocodiles today struggle anyway. (Puru discounted)

[charred hearth]

people say a sauropod is done for if it falls but i dont know if a small fall would kill a large one, whats y'alls thoughts on that?

[compact leaf]

none because it simply wouldn’t have been knocked over by an animal significantly smaller than it

[runic heart]

And it didn’t have crests?

[tough parcel]

The Torvosaurus used its knockback ability + call

[charred hearth]

i mean, i feel like the torvo used all its weight in shoving it while it was off balance

[fossil ingot]

Only ones that don't struggle are Gatord and to some extent
Niles who they also Highwalk(2nd Pic is a seemingly 5m Nile btw)
But yeah, most Struggle which makes sense

[stiff osprey]

elephants normally fall on their knees and elbows and are fine, the same was probably true of sauropods also. If they fall fully on their side, or from a height greater than their own, then there's a problem

[charred hearth]

i know giraffe's sometimes struggle getting up, would that be the same for sauropods if their on their sides?

[white matrix]

bottom is sarco?

[fluid inlet]

Don’t think this one is available but I really liked this Torvosaurus model

[fossil ingot]

Yes

[bright veldt]

Not as severe if we're just speaking porportions. Giraffes are basically on stilts and it makes them lowkey vulnerable to things that other prey animals their size don't. A falling giraffe in the presense of predators is basically doomed off the rip.

[white matrix]

lol whats up with the tibia on the purru

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-giraffe-trying-to-walk-cute-motherly-love-cant-walk-gif-3875298014788410519

[fossil ingot]

Random wanted to make it suffer I guess, bit dw
Thats why Grandpa can no longer stand

[white matrix]

read again

[fossil ingot]

Ohh
Thats Just Fabio's Style I would guess
I am still waiting for Random to make a Puru

[charred hearth]

would large sauropods have been capable of living in very arid enviorments? i know we find alot of their fossils in those enviorments but im gonna assume its just due to preservation bias

[white matrix]

looks like tiny sticks

[outer tusk]

He already did

[bright veldt]

It's suggested a lot of sauropods like open dryer spaces. It creates warm firm ground for egg laying, and while large animals require a lot of food, it also means they can last a long time without food as well given they've bulk-fed beforehand.

[fossil ingot]

A Actual Puru
Rather than just a Dorsal

[white matrix]

thats what i said but people are like "elephants live in arid places "

[stiff osprey]

preservation bias can't bring a 60t animal into a desert

[charred hearth]

so its more of a migrational thing like baleen whales?

[compact leaf]

big hindgut fermenters can also generally last longer on nutritionally poorer food

[white matrix]

it's also really hard to preserve a 60 ton animal in a swamp/wet area

[bright veldt]

Fun fact we don't really know why baleen whales migrate. There's not really an obvious single factor like resources in birds.

[fossil ingot]

Easy answer
3D Scans
I think, and Prob more

[charred hearth]

okay but like, explain more

[stiff osprey]

it's really not, compared to the rate of preservation of other animals. we have both wetland sauropods and desert sauropods

[white matrix]

im saying its harder than it would be for a smaller animal, more material needed to cover it up rapidly
mudslides that would completely cover something like a rex or campto wouldnt completely cover a argent

[stiff osprey]

oh my god are you the "it's not a desert if it rains" guy

[charred hearth]

if it rains in a desert, you will explode

[white matrix]

n-no....

[outer tusk]

random unless you don't have it I can't seem to find the skeletal with the 2 species of purussaurus

[fluid inlet]

He is

[charred hearth]

yes you are because i remember a pass discussion of when you said desert dwelling elephants dont live in the desert because it gets a certain amount of rainfall

[fossil ingot]

Did he ever had one?

[white matrix]

GUYS STOP DONT EXPOSE ME

[balmy oyster]

It snowed in the Sahara once or something what does that entail

[charred hearth]

wasnt Candeleros rather arid or am i misrembering?

[bright veldt]

It was

[white matrix]

ITS IN THE PAST SHHHH
the desert im currently in was flooded.

[stiff osprey]

i'm not sure what width of the jugal entails in lateral view but yeah the skull elements of TMM 43632-1 are all very deep
I even had to rotate the maxilla downward or else it would have a ridiculously deep snout

[charred hearth]

i think candeleros is one of the prime example of large sauropods living in quite arid area's , do you wish to comment on that insatiabilis?

[sullen cairn]

i would tread carefully when taking information about the dinosuchus from the random dino at face value

[bright veldt]

tmk it was arid for most of it then the sky bloody falls for like 1 month out of the year

[fossil ingot]

Funny what 3D Scans do to a Mf

[white matrix]

wait till apex and rally road stegosaurus are described

[outer tusk]

FINALLY

[charred hearth]

i remember someone telling me that due to how hell creek was, it wouldnt have been able to form caves like shown in prehestoric planet, is this true?

[fossil ingot]

Ahh yes
I love Ignoring the Scans of the Fossils

[stiff osprey]

it's possible i should have rotated it medially as I did with the maxilla, i didn't think it looked weird at the time

[tough parcel]

Who knows what else the Randomdinos is wrong about...

Perhaps Sue really is 15 tons...

[outer tusk]

why is the image upside down

[stiff osprey]

does he not know that i am the one paleoartist that chooses the size of animals (reddit et al. last week)?

[charred hearth]

maybe hes not even the real randomdino's...

[fossil ingot]

All that for his Newer Small Puru been a 7.5m mf

[sullen cairn]

i think we should all be more open to reinterpretations of body mass of animals due to new information from 3d scans as we approach svp 2025

[bright veldt]

To me it felt like major nitpicking. It's not like we know the exact details of every foot of Hell Creek 66 mya.

[tough parcel]

I think Random should make a Puru skeletal and prove his Brazilian bias but we don't get everything...

[charred hearth]

i do, i was a leptoceratops who lived there

[fossil ingot]

I mean
HOPEFULLY by November that may Happen
If Stego or Sergi don't do smth funny...

[outer tusk]

no no he should rename his deinosuchus and call it purussaurus (if you get the reference, you know)

[fluid inlet]

Brazilians really do be bias towards Purussaurus but it’s deserved, Purussaurus a beast.

[bright veldt]

oh god

[charred hearth]

oh i forgot, how good would Leptoceratopsidae and Protoceratopsidae have been at using their heads for headbutting?

[outer tusk]

prob

[fossil ingot]

Never thought I would say Sarco may look more normal than Deino

[stiff osprey]

i should mention that the paper that just released talking about deino's inability to walk on land puts it at like 1.5 tonnes smaller than mine

and 13t sue et al. have also called my deino too big

[charred hearth]

i know they'd mainly use their beaks but i feel like their heads would also be quite sturdy, no?

[outer tusk]

EW 13T SUE PLEASE SOMEONE SAVE ME

[fossil ingot]

Someone give Sarco some size

[charred hearth]

does every ceratopsian have the same body type just a different skull?

[outer tusk]

why the hell is Amphicotylus being used 😭

[bright veldt]

We don't know cause post-crania in ceratopsidae is less recovered/studied than the skulls.

[fossil ingot]

Wdym??
We are using Sarco's Closest relative
Not whatever you shared is

[outer tusk]

OH TEM I FORGOT I HAVE THAT ONE SAVED

[fossil ingot]

Did you just Forget this guy existed

[outer tusk]

I forgot I had it saved that all

[charred hearth]

is this what being french is like?

[outer tusk]

no I don't still have it but I remember having an edit of lambor sarcosuchus with it's leg posture up

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Its based on its closest relatives
If ONLY SERENO PROPERLY DESCRIBED SARCO'S POSTCRANIA
But No, we got a bad description and a Drawing that gets Sarco to like 11m lol
Only for it been later been scaled with its also rathee complete close relative and been like 9m lol.

[fossil ingot]

Lambor's is to Big, nd iirc isn't based on Terminonaris

The day we get Proper Sarco Description other than Skull we can live Happy
Same Applies for Puru
Deino already got enough

[outer tusk]

his is 10.13m and based on longirostrine regression

[fluid inlet]

What in the hell is this bud , bad reconstruction?

If not part ant eater part stegosaurid

[fossil ingot]

[outer tusk]

the skull is fine

[white matrix]

IS this legit? would love to model it

[outer tusk]

it mean it's eh given we have nothing good from it we can't count it out completely

[fluid inlet]

It’s legit , was unsure about the reconstruction but seems like it’s legit as well.

[white matrix]

found this

[charred hearth]

i miss old wuerherasaurus plates

[outer tusk]

depends on which species cause you can recon it like this

[charred hearth]

a angle's wig's was lost

[white matrix]

can you guys get me some good paleoart of this so i can model it?

anyways here's stego based off sophie so far

[white matrix]

is it fully mature?

[bright veldt]

We know what baby stegosaurs look like and their plates didn't start out like Spike from the Land Before Time.

[charred hearth]

is it true a stego's plates were kinda floppy as they had no joint? like swaying side to side when it walked

[white matrix]

gonna have to thicken up the skin to the red line

dempsey's with fixed hips

[outer tusk]

we don't know the histology

[balmy oyster]

Heard this wasn’t accurate anymore

[outer tusk]

Wuehrosaurus depiction is pretty lacking right now given the trouble being the 2 speices

[balmy oyster]

fair, gotta ask stego why a dacentrurine reconstruction can’t work

[charred hearth]

@hallow spear

[outer tusk]

has anyone colored a theropod based on this bird?

[hallow spear]

Because homheni does not clade near Dacentrurus/dacentrurine so using Dacentrurus for homheni is dumb

This does not apply to t
“W. Ordosensis” which is probably a dacentrurine and also probably not whuerhosayrus

[outer tusk]

damn I could've swore you said it was the other way around

[charred hearth]

stego do you have a least favorite stegosaurid

[hallow spear]

All of them suck

[outer tusk]

Should I delete all my stegosaurs then

[hallow spear]

Also, stegosaurid isn’t the same as stegosaur(ian)btw, stegosaur includes Huayangosaurus type critters, where as stegosaurid does not
And I assume you mean all stegosaurs so, it’d be more correct to say “what’s your least favourite stegosaur”

[balmy oyster]

He’s not fully wrong since stegosaur anatomy is still not fully well known, we are getting descriptions of more complete specimens down the line which seems like it may change stego up again

[hallow spear]

True

[outer tusk]

I wish this Tatanka was valid

[hallow spear]

We still have such large ghost lineages in stegosauria

[balmy oyster]

maybe… nanoceratops will be real

[hallow spear]

It isn’t, factually speaking.
It’s an objective fact that the majority of stegosaur descriptions are old and bad, with only a few recent ones being actually useful

[balmy oyster]

I think only stego would know the best since he’s got a lot of information on stegosaurus, including some upcoming material

[outer tusk]

I got it "stegosantasma"

[hallow spear]

Creativity doesn’t fix a broken clock, new parts do.

[balmy oyster]

Tbf time itself as a concept was kind of used with creativity

[outer tusk]

creativity only goes so far, like I love being creativity but when you're working with hot ass it's gonna being hot ass

[hallow spear]

You can’t work around something that has no work around, you cannot just say “stegosaurs don’t suck you’re just pessimistic” everyone, and I mean everyone, who has even a bit of knowledge on stegosaurs would agree with me that they are undersampled, understudied and not understood well.

[outer tusk]

also Stego do you prefer being called Stego or can I say Derpy.stego since I have your discord name under both for alot of my reference ( also no D'arc it does not )

[balmy oyster]

I think he should be fine with just stego

[hallow spear]

Idm do what you want

[tough parcel]

Green round baby man pfp

[outer tusk]

D'arc I don't think you're getting what stego is saying

[white matrix]

@hallow spear why does dacentrurus have the species name of armatus?

[hallow spear]

Not you, you need to call me SIR!

And @queen oar I’m aware that it doesn’t mean it will never be found, but currently it isn’t, and me saying it sucks was a joke, even though it is pretty much true when it comes to “are stegosaurs difficult to work with”

[hallow spear]

Why not? (It’s because it means “armed” in Latin which is in reference to what the original describes of O. Armatus thought it had spikes above the arm I think)

[white matrix]

oh I I thought it had something to do with stegosaurus armatus

[hallow spear]

I’m pretty sure o. Armatus predates S. armatus by 2 years

[charred hearth]

did any ankylosaurs and stegosaurids co-exist or was it too late for that?

[outer tusk]

no

[balmy oyster]

Fadeno’s skull is a little odd, might just be preference but I think GaT’s newest eotrike recon does it better

It & various trike skulls

[charred hearth]

whats y'alls thoughts on nedoceratops

[sullen cairn]

im joining the war on tatankaceratops and nedoceratops on the side of longrich

[tough parcel]

Curious...

[charred hearth]

what is tanakaceratops? a trike with dwarfism?

[balmy oyster]

I heard it had features only present on adult triceratops specimens, and it doesn’t match up at all with known immature triceratops individuals

[stiff osprey]

i was going to joke about that but i forgot which side longrich is on

[sullen cairn]

sadly legit the only commentary on tatankaceratops since its description is a paragraph from titanoceratops' description and everyone just cites that moves on because bhi or something

[outer tusk]

mhm longrich...

[balmy oyster]

Ironically my belief in Nedo has begun to dwindle, I hope we can find anything else properly referable to it in the future

I had no clue there was a assignable vert, do we have any else information to it?

[outer tusk]

hey fishy do you have any triceratops edits from paleo data base

[charred hearth]

so are only toro, trike and lepto the only valid ceratopsians of hell creek?

[balmy oyster]

I’ve seen a tweet saying they found more tatanka material from the lance

[sullen cairn]

i think most of the tatanka being mature stuff comes from the skull but iirc the neurocentral sutures are supposed to be obliterated

[balmy oyster]

Idk how legit it is, and idk if I can find it again unfortunately

That’s weird, all of ceratopsia focuses around skulls so why stop at the weird dwarf thing

[sullen cairn]

wdym

[outer tusk]

we have juveniles of torosaurus

[balmy oyster]

What if it’s something ENTIRELY different though…the TRUE baby prorsus….

Everything else is yoshiensis or something (and one i think is potentially referable to whatever yoshi is anyways)

[outer tusk]

truly

[sullen cairn]

question is do i realy want to read through which of these are horridus or not

[charred hearth]

did trike appear before or after tyrannosaurus? ( or the same time ?)

[balmy oyster]

I am always angry so probably triceratops

Toro seems chill

@charred hearth if we count earlier fragmentary NA material, then trike definitely came much later

[sullen cairn]

MOR 1110 seems to be from prorsus' unit

[charred hearth]

would you say your a ....raging triceratops?

[balmy oyster]

[sullen cairn]

looking at it again tbf longrich only really seems to consider it outside expected prorsus life cycle variation in either scenario

something something genera are arbitrary tatankaceratops stays winning

[charred hearth]

Thoughts? https://x.com/ReddCinema/status/1981571006591344870

Redd (@ReddCinema)

One of the rarest animal sightings in the world: chirodectes maculatus, only seen once before

X · Oct 24, 2025, 3:58 AM

[balmy oyster]

The problem is it sort of contradicts what we know about ceratopsian ontogeny, they usually don’t develop proportional large nasal horns (if they do have them) at such a early age, but then again we don’t have much immature ceratopsians and prorsus could just be as weird as edmonto is now

[outer tusk]

just to recap would it be fair to call Longrich a "reliable" source

[balmy oyster]

It varies depending on who you ask, I think his papers have been getting better?

[outer tusk]

"my brother" is wild work

[sullen cairn]

is there even a concrete referral for lowei at this point

[thorn grove]

Alle Menschen sind Brüder

[balmy oyster]

he’s trying

[thorn grove]

I have trouble getting into Ceratopsids cuz they're like all diagnosed by cranial characters based on skulls that all look like mashed potatoes

[balmy oyster]

It could also just be deformed

[sullen cairn]

wasnt half the point of tatanka the suture fusion

which to be fair is kinda meh historically but its at least in theory supposed to be fairly well understood in triceratops (ie horner and goodwin 2006)

but also this feels like a slippery slope to just ignoring any singleton taxon

[balmy oyster]

NEDOCERATOPS HATCHERI

[sullen cairn]

if we have an understood sutural fusion sequence for triceratops wouldnt it make most sense to compare with that regardless

[balmy oyster]

I more so am curious about that apparent tatanka vert we somehow have

[thorn grove]

the world would be a better place if more things were left as indet

[charred hearth]

be honest

Do you think we'll ever find a another lambeosaurine / saurolophine in hell creek besides edmonto?

[thorn grove]

arguably we already have so sure

[charred hearth]

we do?

[thorn grove]

we were discussing earlier how MOR 1609 has Saurolophini characters rather than Edmontosaurus plus there's some HC material that supposedly has Lambeosaurine affinities

[balmy oyster]

Aside from Becky’s giant there is fragmentary indeterminate material that could be potentially lambeosaur

[sullen cairn]

if tatankaceratops' validity is based on observable sutural sequences in triceratops that seems like a perfectly falsifiable hypothesis

that doesnt really seem like a bad thing

[balmy oyster]

late surviving regaliceratops descendant

I also think it’s a dwarf

[sullen cairn]

for reference this is from longrich and field 2012 (tatanka at bottom)

[balmy oyster]

YPM 1822 the most mature triceratops ever

[charred hearth]

" who's ready for their lessons in being invalid? "

nedoceratops shakes

dakotaraptor gulps

nanotyrannus sweats heavily

" YES ANNOTITAN " they all say in unison

[sullen cairn]

like at the very least i think it'd be better to leave tatanka as provisionally indeterminate pending someone looking at it again lest our understanding of triceratops ontogeny is severely weakened

[balmy oyster]

Nanotyrannus is failing the class

You are definitely onto something, yoshi’s trike does have skull features present in both horridus & prorsus but doesn’t confidently sit with either of them + there are referable specimens from I think the same stratigraphy

[charred hearth]

f for failure..

[sullen cairn]

this is actually because yoshi is ugrosaurus (=triceratops) olsoni (paul, 2025)
i am only partially joking here

[balmy oyster]

I was told ugro could’ve likely been horridus as well

[charred hearth]

what came first , horridus or porrous?

[sullen cairn]

on the contrary ugrosaurus is actually the oldest name for triceratops fowlerscanellapaulensis

[charred hearth]

did both trike's make it to the end? i forgot

[balmy oyster]

Does this mean it can be hypothetically named “triceratops olsoni” then if ugro can be assigned with yoshi

[sullen cairn]

unfortunately

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yes-sir-yayy-kataman-gif-12260883688244422951

[charred hearth]

would you rather have

tyrannosaurid autism

or

Ceratopsian autism

[balmy oyster]

Dinosaur spectrum

[sullen cairn]

if you think about what kind of return will nanotyrannus have if there's no tatankaceratops for it to go hand-in-hand with

[balmy oyster]

The nanoceratops Bloody Mary was fighting before they both died

How so? I feel we’re reaching a point in research where discussion on it is reaching its prime

[sullen cairn]

i will live and die by hyoid abstract et al

[stiff osprey]

joining the war on nanotyrannus on the side of the longrich

[balmy oyster]

The day longrich is proven right

Either that or trex juveniles were bizarre beasts against the laws of nature and decided they wanted different morphs at birth

[stiff osprey]

alioramus hellcreekensis would be alright as long as it keeps the jane build

[sullen cairn]

all of this and chasmosaurus priscus is still never gonna happen

[thorn grove]

it's an adult tyrannosaurus, they aged backwards

[balmy oyster]

Evil option: Jane represents yet another taxa and there’s two nanotyrannuses

[sullen cairn]

ngl if they actually accept the troodon neotype for whatever godforsaken reason there's like no reason this shouldnt happen

[stiff osprey]

nanotyrannus nanus (the 400kg mature type) and nanotyrannus giganteus (1000kg immature jane)

and dont forget nanotyrannus longsnoutus (dueling dinosaurs)

[balmy oyster]

Neotype of a specimen in an entirely different formation that may just represent something entirely different…

Close enough, welcome back carcharodontosaurus.

[balmy oyster]

Nanotyrannus stygiovenanensis

[sullen cairn]

plateosaurus got its neotype rejected and diplodocus got its transfer of type species rejected there is still hope for reasonable people

welcome back currie 1987

[balmy oyster]

We had a unofficial self proclaimed “paleo war” already but all it amounted to was discord drama

[sullen cairn]

ngl i think it'd just end up being me and crydrakon waving our fists at the clouds but potato potato

[sullen cairn]

ngl for being the only other person on the planet besides gsp with reasonable takes on troodontine systematic takes he really does have a questionable username

[balmy oyster]

It was involved, yes

The whwnaha the who

[stiff osprey]

i really just thought you were partnering with a pterosaur

[balmy oyster]

ah yea

Kestertank? Wait that doesn’t end with an i

[thorn grove]

I'm really struggle to think of what four letter word you mean

[balmy oyster]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh

[sullen cairn]

desperate measures

[balmy oyster]

Diplodocids as a whole are in a jumble because some have their names based on plaster and others just don’t fit into phylogeny too well

Behold, the great diplodocoidea indet. movement

[thorn grove]

I am on board with indet. movements

[stiff osprey]

even with the plaster diplodocidae is easily one of the most stable dinosaur families

this is largely because 50% of dinosaur families are monospecific/wastebaskets

[thorn grove]

relevant meme

[balmy oyster]

It’s cool and more valid than Kallamedu giant

[charred hearth]

did alamo ever make it to hell creek or no?

[thorn grove]

afaik we have no material from it no

[balmy oyster]

Likely not, all sauropod fossils we have of the end of the Cretaceous in NA were down south

[charred hearth]

i remeber saurian was gonna have it appear as a very rare event, did they just do that for no reason?

[balmy oyster]

No but I know who you’re talking about and I think he’s pretty cool

@charred hearth Saurian probably just did that cus it seemed cool

[charred hearth]

saurian alamosaurus will always be special to me

[stiff osprey]

well it is a giant sauropod and choosing not to have a giant sauropod in your game is a terrible idea

though it does clash with saurian not adding leptoceratops because it wasn't found in the specific 4x4km area the map is based on

[balmy oyster]

Isn’t is possible Alamo & friends moved from down south into NA which means there really were no sauropods in NA after about 90 million years ago and they all just died

[stiff osprey]

yes

[thorn grove]

Saurian devs were so weird, excessively and needlessly accurate on some details and completely willing to engage in ridiculous levels of speculation on others

[charred hearth]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[balmy oyster]

Who knew ceratopsians would be such ravenous sauropod predators

[thorn grove]

I did not remember that tbh but it sounds like them

[charred hearth]

how did bum ass denversaurus make it in but not my goat lepto?

[balmy oyster]

Thank goodness people started waking up to dinosaur diversity after they realized how stupid torosaurus being an adult triceratops was as a proper scientific concept

[charred hearth]

how did saurian get so many talented artist? the art is so good and then you look at the 3d graphics and...

[thorn grove]

I mostly just remember them unironically proposing that Edmontosaurus adults reliably got to 17 meters and they all just happened to die as conveniently sized subadults with size distributions otherwise indicative of adult populations

[balmy oyster]

Probably would’ve looked even better if it wasn’t for the incident

[charred hearth]

what was the incident?

[balmy oyster]

Saurian is the reason why edmusthosaurus exists. Dark day for paleontology…

This image caused wars online for years to come.

[balmy oyster]

One of the devs ran off with a ton of money and basically killed the development process, leaving the game dead in the water

[charred hearth]

dosent that happen to alot of dinosaur survival games

why is it always a dinosaur survival game thats happening too

[thorn grove]

The fact that they didn't even go with 14-15 meters from X-Rex/Becky but 17 because hypothetically adults would be twice the linear size of 8.5 meter subadults blows my mind

[charred hearth]

why was edmonto in that game even called anatosaurus

[balmy oyster]

It’s the (unofficial patent pending) “dinosaur survival game curse”, where even if everyone is kind hearted and innocent from the start, slowly start to either become deranged and disgusting, or get replaced by deranged and disgusting people (the owner always goes crazy too and either becomes extremely rude, racist, or has interest to younger people)

[thorn grove]

tbf game devs are just evil

[charred hearth]

that sounds like my highschool

[balmy oyster]

Denversaurus? Yea that’s been known for a real long time now, unless you mean yet another possible nodosaur…?

[balmy oyster]

Mostly because people who end up playing these games are the weird kids

We’re all desperate, all we want to do is play as a dinosaur and eat other dinosaurs 😭

[charred hearth]

do you think we'll ever see a triple AAA dinosaur survival game?

[sullen cairn]

thank you gsp

[balmy oyster]

Since when did we have priconodon 2.0

[thorn grove]

I've thought about an ecology based dino game where you design an environment and try to make it work based on the flora and fauna you choose, it'd kind of be like those zoo games but not a zoo. I thought it would be cool

aside from that I just like being a big dinosaur why do we gotta fight 24/7 in these games :(

[charred hearth]

tyto ecology my beloved

[thorn grove]

we can get 50 modern day mods but god forbid we get a single triassic playable

[charred hearth]

paleontology is uprising again, soon they will silence us once more

[balmy oyster]

For some inexplicable reason, at least only on Roblox, these games attract the most bottom-of-the-barrel cave dwelling clanners who make it their life’s mission to hyperfixiate on the game and doxx anyone they don’t like

[thorn grove]

ok tbf roblox is the 9th circle of hell I doubt it would be like that as an independent game

at least I hope not

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-prior-extinction-gif-27511813

[thorn grove]

idk how to make mods

sorry lol

[charred hearth]

la-brea is good though i wont lie

[thorn grove]

I think @white matrix is working on mods, but he might be busy with what he's already doing

[balmy oyster]

Wanna know something fun?

IT’S STILL BEING SHUT DOWN REGULARLY. IT’S BEEN ABOUT A WEEK.

[thorn grove]

I was considering learning how to make mods at one point but I basically got fed up with PoT and stopped playing a few months ago, basically the only reason I'm even in this server anymore is cuz I enjoy the paleo chat brain rot

[balmy oyster]

We got flight like 2 years after it was promised to release btw

Whatever the smallest one was

[thorn grove]

tbh I'd like a Rauisuchian playable but if I had to choose a Dinosaur Plateosaurus might be a decent pick plus it has multiple species already afaik

[green helm]

We all… we all can paleontology together coraaallll

[thorn grove]

Postosuchus would be good

Saurosuchus is my goat tho

Saurosuchus my beloved

maybe tenax for Fasolasuchus and chiniquensis for Prestosuchus itself

[balmy oyster]

Prestosuchus def

[thorn grove]

actually isn't Prestosuchus bigger than Saurosuchus (I still like sauro more)

@queen oar "However, Saurosuchus also had a weak bite for an animal of its size (1015–1885 N)" https://doi.org/10.1002/ar.25299

its skull was more lightly built than other Loricatans

comparable to gharials

jaguars are a bit under 900 N typically so Saurosuchus would still have a stronger bite even at the low end

Tbh I’m not familiar with lips/no lips for early Pseudosuchians

My intuition is that they have them and later lost them closer to modern Crocodilians but I genuinely don’t know

That works

[zealous ravine]

They should probably have them

Fair

[opaque kayak]

Nanotyrannus rex (FMNH PR 2081), Nanotyrannus imperator (BHI 6248), Nanotyrannus goliath (uncatalogued femur)

[balmy oyster]

incredible

[lofty creek]

R.I.P Rhabdodontidae
R.I.P Zalmoxes

guys we have freaking ceratopsian in f***ing upper Cretaceous EUROPE now

[green helm]

speaking of that astogrosuchus got downsized i cant defend it as much as with deinosuchus but rip asto

[green helm]

is that edmonto?

[lofty creek]

vro
I never thought i gonna see PoT in SVP abstracts

[open compass]

Yeah

[green helm]

since it looks smaller what is its weight exactly?

[open compass]

Probably 3t?

[green helm]

all the way to 3 ton?!

oh dayum

[open compass]

Well, edmos were built different

[green helm]

ohhh smaller species eh?

[coral forge]

theres a 3t annectens now?
I thought they only went to 3.4t I might have to update my chart 🥀
ngl I'll probably update it anyway because I don't like the font

[coral forge]

should I remake this in a cleaner style

I dont think my phone could handle an image of that size if I made it bigger for better quality
if I make it 3000px tall like I usually do the image would be 59,000px wide
I might just double the resolution and see if that's doable

[open compass]

I meant it looks around 3t, not an exact figure
Love your size charts btw

[ashen wedge]

I still believe that the first skeleton big of Deinosuchus could still be possible, considering how some modern day crocodilians are able to grow bigger than the recorded and accepted averages

[green helm]

im glad you arent afraid to say that nice

[ashen wedge]

I’m going off of Croc logic, that a bigger than normal sized croc is not out of the range of possibilities, granted it also depends on the species for it to nearly completely larger, but this would be an exception not the rule

[green helm]

its gonna include deinosuchus eating alot more then averge deinosuchus tbh

[ashen wedge]

That seems reasonable, considering how big some crocs get despite the typical average size we have measured for them in the modern era

[green helm]

mr bodybuilder deinosuchus

''YEAHHH BABY LIGHTWEIGHT''

[ashen wedge]

I am being serious, it is still possible and not out of the range of speculation of reality

[undone rapids]

Bigger deinos definitely existed like all animals we've found fossils of, but the proportions would be similar to the newer skeletal.
Huge Head, smaller body, etc

[ashen wedge]

I agree with that

[green helm]

huge head smaller body is something puru def will get i have a feeling

stomatosuchus has that atleast

[undone rapids]

Stomatosuchus was a Head that's now Ash*. I don't think we know its proportions exactly

[green helm]

well its rather a goofy one but it could look like a whale like crocodile in the image

wait no this!

[coral forge]

literally every bahariyan archosaur:

[fossil ingot]

[outer tusk]

you really think a 13-14 ton deinosuchus is possible when the current largest is about a clear half of that

[green helm]

oh here they come wellp gotta go

[outer tusk]

Also for dunk it's still very big ay 4.1 meters and 1,706kg (1.7 tonnes)

[fossil ingot]

We already have Smaller Adults Deinos than the possible 5.4t Deino, Doesn't Help Deino's Case mf wouldn't be able to Walk, it already can't do it, Imagine with Fadeno's Size
Fadeno's size is based on Nothing but Scale Bars and Bad Measurements

[outer tusk]

Deinosuchus wants to be Dakosaurus SO BADLY

[fossil ingot]

Issue is
Puru has Post Crania, Deino has Too
Puru been a Caiman also helps its Case
Deino is a Stem Crocodylian and Sarco a Pholidosauridae

[outer tusk]

sarcosuchus is the whole family apparently

[fossil ingot]

Sure, Puru's Cost Crania isn't exactly the Best Described
But is there and we know about it

[fossil ingot]

Nah, this Guy is there too

The 5.4t Deino(which is likely possibly not even that size)
Is the largest, we have 2 other specimens at 4.7t and the Paper making Deino not been able to walk seems to give an Adult for 3.7t which can be used for an average most likely.
Which is most likely for Males
Hell, The Biggest Deino and Puru are likely males

[fossil ingot]

Stomato is also a rather unique case

[fossil ingot]

Chunk

[coral forge]

why does it already look 1000x better

[fossil ingot]

Is that an Annectens with Crest?

[coral forge]

the crest is speculative

[fossil ingot]

Yeah I know

[coral forge]

are the colors easy enough to look at

the teal feels a little too bright idk

[runic heart]

https://x.com/paleobyliam/status/1981876570160574604

Liam Elward Paleoart 🇵🇸 (@paleobyliam)

To clear up any confusion wrt this viral pic, the end of the mummy's snout is a cast that Tyler Keillor made (and I painted) to help visitors, the press etc understand what they're looking at. Last pic shows what is actually preserved in the fossil

X · Oct 25, 2025, 12:12 AM

[runic heart]

Bros head was absolutely crushed.

[hardy sentinel]

"Do you have some ibuprofen? I have a headache"

[opaque kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/do-you-have-any-ibuprofen-i-have-a-headache-meme-ibuprofen-meme-anime-girl-meme-mood-gif-17693332636758375379

[coral forge]

you be profen all night huh?

[charred hearth]

this will be a weird question but would dinosaurs have dinosaur years like how dogs have dog years? like how 1 dog year is like 15 years for a human

[thorn grove]

different dinosaurs had different lifespans

also it would be kind of hard to map that to dog years because dogs mature faster than humans (even proportionate to their shorter lifespans) while many Dinosaurs seem to have spent a majority of their lifespan not fully grown

[charred hearth]

oh why?

[green helm]

deinosuchus bias

[thorn grove]

why to what

[green helm]

eh nvm it wasnt that bad its fine

[charred hearth]

why do majority ofdinosaurs not get fully grown?

[fossil ingot]

Help Grandpa to walk

[green helm]

deinosuchus bias make bones have muscles!!!🗣️

[undone rapids]

Not really Dinosaur thing, It varies but most in animal species the young die before reaching adulthood, Predation, starvation, etc.

A big part is reproductive strategies with r/K reproduction startegies
, Elephants have fewer babies and less often and those juvis are larger when born and with parental care and such are more likely to survive to adulthood compared to say a sauropod that lays 100 eggs at once then leaves and maybe 2 of them survive to adulthood while the rest probably died for one reason or another.

[green helm]

the 100 baby deinosuchues: d day ahh

[thorn grove]

This is part of it but a lot of Dinosaurs actually just senesced relatively quickly after reaching full size which combined with it taking a while to reach that size (even with many Dinosaurs growing very rapidly it simply took a very long time to become that massive) meant that even under ideal circumstances many Dinosaurs would have simply not spent a large portion of their life as fully grown adults

[charred hearth]

how long would you guys say it took megatherapods to get out of the nest and live on their own?

[stiff osprey]

At most 1-2 years, their parents had a short window to have new offspring and couldnt afford to care for them for multiple years

[green helm]

pterodactyls hunting them when the parent wasnt there would be common too eh?

[charred hearth]

you think any would be able to leave in like , a month or nah?

[queen oar]

Hartman has commented with me... But he says that likely Dinosaurs for example were able to survive the mass extinction of the Late Triassic due to their flexible growth ( Just look at Coelophysis )

[green helm]

guys would there be more warm blooded dinosaurs than cold blooded ones

[stiff osprey]

yes because the number of cold blooded dinosaurs was zero

[tough parcel]

Perhaps the Myotragus can tell us something...

[green helm]

so stegosaurus wasnt cold blooded either

[potent bobcat]

Was it possible for theropod dinosaurs to sort of «pseudo-pronate» their arms like with the claw attacks from Metri or Allo?

[undone rapids]

Its warm blooded, unless it was a Croc.... can never be sure

[green helm]

oh mah gad crocosarus!!!

[queen oar]

Suchomimus walks in

[hazy basalt]

What about mesothermic dinosaurs 🗿

[green helm]

spinosaurus🗣️ 🔥

https://tenor.com/view/spinosaurus-i-feel-like-a-monster-spino-spinosaur-spinosaurus-dance-gif-12634646729898467575

[stiff osprey]

some birds can leave the nest within minutes of birth. although they will still follow their parents for up to a few weeks

[queen oar]

I'd say they were independent from the moment they hatched... My personal bet

[coral forge]

Why do non-avian dinosaurs and pterosaurs have such little species compared to other reptiles and even most mammals?
Like the average number of species per genus of non avian theropods is 1.07, with the genus having the most species being archaeopteryx with 5. Meanwhile avian dinosaurs like corvus, falco and ardea have 50, 38 and 12 respectively.
Even pseudosuchians like deinosuchus, crocodylus, caiman and alligator have 4, 12, 8 and 10 species so why is it that non avian dinosaurs have so little. Is it simply just pure coincidence that some clades fossilise more often than others?

[tough parcel]

This is because fossilization

[stiff osprey]

imagine if the entire record we had of the last 10,000 years was a small stretch of land in northern england. you wouldn't have 50 species of falco then

[undone rapids]

Also due to Genus and Species differences not really mattering much, paleontologists prefer making new dinos their own genus usually which isn't the case for modern animals where they prefer making animals a species within an existing genus usually. You can make all Tyrannosaurids a Species of Tyrannosaurus and it wouldn't really matter much

[queen oar]

I mean, I think we had a conversation with TableSeating and Sir Oogma yesterday about that

Basically how we could be underestimating the potential diversity of Mesozoic Fauna? I don't remember everything now

[queen oar]

You have to also remember we are still using a outdated taxonomy methodology...

Because you know? We don't get to use Genetic Material

[undone rapids]

Tyrannosaurus Mcrensis was gonna be its own Genus, Publisher didn't like that so they made it a Tyrannosaurus species

[queen oar]

One day Alamotyrannus... One day...

[green helm]

we can all... we can all dinosaur together

[coral forge]

so saurophaganax IS an allosaurid

[queen oar]

Saurophaganax IS an annoyance

[green helm]

saurophaganx is no longer a sauropod?!?!

[undone rapids]

Unless the vert assigned to it ends up being a sauropod

[fluid inlet]

My favorite sauropod

[coral forge]

Is the sauropod actually called saurophaganax now or is it still unnamed

[queen oar]

I hate that radioactive motherfu-#@$ ( True Story btw )

[undone rapids]

Its just one vert that the authors were unsure if it was a Sauropod or Theropod. If its sauropod it might just end up as Diplodocus sp. I think another Team was scanning the material to get a better idea

[queen oar]

I think I said it to a Friend, but that's just Epanterias all over again?

If some don't know... Epanterias Vertebrae were so big that they first thought it was a Sauropod.

[coral forge]

damn how big would that theropod be or would it just have proportionally huge vertebrae

[queen oar]

second alternative

Comically Large Vertebrae

[green helm]

they def guessed of how big it is cause its only a few fossils ngl

[stiff osprey]

the larger verts are very clearly apatosaurine the 'saurophaganax' bits have been upscaled for this image

[potent bobcat]

Yeah, it’s just a regular sized Allo with a disproportionately thick back

[green helm]

so like acrocanthosaurus basically?

[queen oar]

At that point I'm just accepting anything that allows me to get rid of Saurophaganax

[coral forge]

I'm just torturing my phone for an edmont size chart rn
15,000px wide and ive only done 30/59 🥀

[coral forge]

why does sarco look starved

[queen oar]

They are on a Diet, don't judge them

[fossil ingot]

Its based on its closest relative(basically a Head Swap)

[coral forge]

the realism servers banned it from hunting anything larger than an arapima because it vaguely resembles a gharial

[queen oar]

How does Nigersaurus compare to these guys?

[potent bobcat]

Mattel Baryonyx for demonstration

[queen oar]

Damn. Also, I'm guessing you gonna have to put like 3 Spinosaurs there?

[fossil ingot]

This is from Randon's Chart before Eocarch been a Carch was Nuked and uses his Sarco rather than te newest edit

[coral forge]

sarcosuchus stolokrosuchus vs suchomimus

[potent bobcat]

Stolokro neg diffs

[queen oar]

Because of Cristatusaurus and Eocarcharia

[fossil ingot]

Ehh
Maybe
Add Eocharcharia(for now) and the Guy that was described earlier than Sucho

[coral forge]

sucho might be cristatu iirc

[queen oar]

yeeeah, but that's a nothing burger topic, frankly

[fossil ingot]

Maybe, but Cristatu material don't help it

[coral forge]

wouldn't it gain all of suchos material if they got merged

[fossil ingot]

Yes
But now thing us
Try Merging them smh

[queen oar]

Wouldn't say so, the sockets on the premaxilla are different than those of Suchomimus ( Although, i don't know how reliable a illustration is compared to a cast made after the actual fossil )

To say: Different sockets, Different Teeth, Different Diet, Different Specialization, Different Animal.

[coral forge]

sucho is actually cristatu and this is 2025 so anything i say is fact and if you disagree youre wrong + guilty of 14 hate crimes so like yeah

easy

[fossil ingot]

Sucho will forever Previal and Live

[runic heart]

Balaenoptera is the perfect example of this.

[queen oar]

Oh yeah, a little advice, but this is just another personal bet... Make Eocarcharia a Spinosaurinae, rather than a Baryonychinae

[coral forge]

erm actually humans have wildly different anatomy between individuals therefore dinosaurs did too therefore theyre the same and we cant disprove that because they arent alive - reddit etc al.,

[green helm]

sarcosuchus really needs to bulk gang

[fossil ingot]

Ehhh
Maybe, I see no reason for it to be a Spinosaurinae tho

[queen oar]

It's less about different anatomy, like shape of bones, and more so things related to the teeth. Which, it's kinda one of the things that distinguish a lot of Spinosaurs.

[fossil ingot]

They are just built like this
Their Family is weird

[green helm]

i mean a little bit of bulk cant hurt much (save my skinny boi🙏 )

[fossil ingot]

Maybe
But Family kinda built weirdly

[queen oar]

It's just an idea, you don't have to take it

It's more like " It would be awesome... It would be so cool! "

[green helm]

i still cant use gharials for them right?

[fossil ingot]

Iirc no

[green helm]

fair enough for the past years gharial was never related to it so yeah

[queen oar]

I'll be honest everytime I look at those legs, I remember how goofy the swim animation for Sarco is in-game

[fossil ingot]

Ppl Comparing Sarco to Gharial always hurt
Even a Orinoco Crocodile Skulls reminds me more of a Sarco than even a Tommistona/False Gharial Does

[green helm]

yeah its jaw is more bulky and isnt straight up pointy

[green helm]

i underestimated how thick there jaws actually are now

[fossil ingot]

They just look thin compared to the Monsters Puru abd Deino are

[fluid inlet]

Doesn’t look thin at all

[queen oar]

Yeah

@fossil ingot btw, do you know how Pseudosuchian Osteoderms would look like with soft tissues?

[fossil ingot]

Obv

[fluid inlet]

Yeah obviously

[fossil ingot]

Nop
Maybe Random or Miguel may know

[green helm]

big boy

[fossil ingot]

Wanna see a Wide Head?

[green helm]

deep inside all of them there contains a swamp puppy

[outer tusk]

who did the edit btw

[runic heart]

So could sarco death roll or nah?

Most studies show it probably couldn’t, but the jaws aren’t really that thin.

[green helm]

probably could deathroll small dinosaurs atleast

[fossil ingot]

Ehh forgot
Sm on the Paleo Server

[queen oar]

Probably not, honestly.

[green helm]

Depends on the size of the animal sarco catches tbh

[queen oar]

Wouldn't say so. It's not Gharial thin, and we have established it in this conversation... But the thing itself doesn't seem to be built for that

[green helm]

It was more of a fish eater i dont know the requirements for it to be able to deathroll

[charred hearth]

if im correct, has there ever been a chasmosaurine/centrosaurine thats been found in a arid enviorment?

[queen oar]

Nah, wouldn't say that either. It doesn't seem to be that heavy, and it's totally capable of moving on land ( based on relatives ). Reason I'm emphasizing this, usually if you are a fish eater purely, you tend to reflect that sorta of lifestyle in your general physic. Which Sarcosuchus doesn't seem to reflect that. I won't say it's more terrestrial, but more so Semi-Aquatic with depending the time of the day hunting on the ground

They are giving me Chinese Alligator vibes

[green helm]

Pretty sure sarco would use swamps tho to ambush its Prey i like to think that if they are that thin they can almost fit in small lakes but i don’t know the animals sarcosuchus hunted

[charred hearth]

do wetlands count as swamps?

[queen oar]

Not denying that possibility, but I also think that physic is due to a lifestyle where movement on land it's emphasized a lot, or the function of Moving on land it's important to the animal

[warped peak]

Sarcosuchus ate a lot of fish when young but slowly transitioned to larger prey animals

[green helm]

Do we agree its 50/50?

[queen oar]

not sure, frankly.

[green helm]

Debatable then

[queen oar]

Yeah

[warped peak]

Its a pretty solid skull, although i doubt its death rolling any large animals

[sullen cairn]

Iirc the study that concluded sarco couldn’t death roll was under the assumption gavialids couldn’t death roll

[fossil ingot]

Orinoco Crocodiles can Deathroll and is not like their Skull are THAT

No Idea of False Gharials do

[warped peak]

Whether something can or can't deathroll depends on the prey size

[green helm]

Exactly

[sullen cairn]

Which apparently they can in at least certain contexts so that wouldn’t really preclude sarcosuchus from doing so either

[warped peak]

See now PRIONO deathrolling

[fossil ingot]

Given how Sarco skull is
I would be surprised it didn't deathroll to some extent

[queen oar]

Idk...

[fossil ingot]

Orinoco Crocodile Skulls are also funny

@runic heart to some extent apparently yeah

[runic heart]

And they can, can they?

[green helm]

Btw wouldn’t sarcosuchus aim for the legs

[queen oar]

Gavialis is what again? I don't remember the popular name

[fossil ingot]

Normally yeah, tho if Had the Chance it would obviously go for the Neck

[fossil ingot]

I think Gharial?
But again
Gharials is a Horrible Example for Sarco

[warped peak]

False gharials have some nasty skulls

[green helm]

False gharials are more aggressive compared to gharialds

[fossil ingot]

I was about to share this
You win this race..

[queen oar]

They've been reported to feed on Mammals and other reptiles too, right?

[warped peak]

False gharials are also ancestrally durophagous apex predators so that makes sense. Prior to quite recently they reached Sarco sizes in several species

[green helm]

So would sarcosuchus also be aggressive

[fossil ingot]

Cool animal

[warped peak]

Realistically I doubt it. Not around Suchomimus for sure lol

[queen oar]

I guess it depends on individual and other pressures?

[fossil ingot]

Sarco likely just chilled unless was Hungry

[green helm]

Suchumimus would be the hippo for sarcosuchus

[queen oar]

Realistically, you need to ask if there's anything that would create the demand for a aggressive response from Sarcosuchus, or that would pressure it to have aggressive as the only standard response

[warped peak]

Suchomimus massively outsized Sarco and would likely not hesitate to act unpleased when the giant ambush predator approaches it

[runic heart]

Still one of my favorite suchomimus designs to date.

[warped peak]

Like lol

[green helm]

Thats why i said it would be the hippo for sarco

[charred hearth]

add nigersaurus NOW

[queen oar]

Tbh, I don't think Suchomimus would be that big of a deal. Yes, it's " Tall ", but that's kinda of it going on for it

[runic heart]

Arms

[green helm]

It got Sharp claws

[warped peak]

What would Sarco have in favor exactly lol

Sucho is twice the size, literally

[charred hearth]

the ability to fly like in PoT

[fossil ingot]

Its Heavier, Physically Stronger than the Croc and has more than enough ways to dmg it

[undone rapids]

Big Crocs can't really bite high up, I'd imagine most of em would prefer not getting closer larger theropods just due to size intimidation

[green helm]

It has range

[fossil ingot]

Dw
This are just decoration

[runic heart]

My favorite thing to bring up in spino vs T. rex arguments is the fact that rex just wouldn’t engage the walking wall.

[charred hearth]

is rex not the walking wall

[fossil ingot]

Yeah, Spino is only taller at the Sail when using Max size for Spino and like 2-3rd Largest Rex
Can prob be Taller if it rears up tho

[little mauve]

There's a big acrocanthosaurus with a crocodile tooth embedded in its skull https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/86515-cool-cast-skull-of-acrocanthosaurus/

[fossil ingot]

Realistically
Spino and Rex wouldn't risk injury obv
But like, the Wall Itself is Rex not Spino lol

[queen oar]

Not really sure at the moment, frankly

And about the Arms, I'm not particularly sure that having strong arms or forelimbs in general means you have the general advantage onto a hypothetical scenario where both animals are responding to each other's presence with aggressiveness. Different case: There's a report of a Civet killing a Leopard way bigger than it

Not comparative at all, I know. But it's more to say, a lot of these scenarios are kinda very subjective towards how they conclude. I particularly don't know either how " Tough " the integument and osteoderms of Sarcosuchus would be.

[undone rapids]

Yeah, its from a small croc iirc. Probably got it while it was drinking. I was speaking from more of a croc trying to steal carcass away from a theropod

[tough parcel]

This is because T. rex never hunted large megafaunal prey and only hunted juveniles so it would have no experience fighting others in its own weight class!

[fossil ingot]

Sarco's Osteoderms aren't even normal ones like those of your Average Crpc

[warped peak]

And we have no idea how much Plumage Suchomimus presented either

[queen oar]

Still important to make that question, I think

[charred hearth]

what was the 2nd largest hterapod that lived with sucho?

[fossil ingot]

This doesn't disprove the Fact Sucho is well basically 2x Sarco's Mass, its Physically Superior and Sarco likely didn't wanna mess with it as Much

[undone rapids]

Some type of Allosauroid/Carch

[fossil ingot]

Ehhh
Either Cristatu or Eocharcharia
The Carch SEEMS smaller than the 3 Spinosaurids LOL

[queen oar]

Again, it's kinda of what I've pointed out but... Interspecific confrontations aren't like... a Stat Card game?

" Oooh! My Creature has bigger number than yours, so I win! "

It's kinda why I made the " Conclusion of a lot of these are... Subjective at best "

[green helm]

Like how crocodiles gets scared when a human stands up

[tough parcel]

Sorry but when the animal is 2-3x bigger than the other, it's not subjective at all 🥀

[fossil ingot]

This literally doesn't take away the Fact that Sucho is the Bigger Animal and has the Intimidation Factor on its size, Size is still important for this LMAO

[undone rapids]

Sarco and Sucho actually all got Bullied by the real Hippo of Africa, Lurdusaurus

[fossil ingot]

Funny how Random's Sarco is Bulkiers than the newest Edit, Edit of Sarco based on Termi is like just about 3 tons tbh lol

[queen oar]

Well, apparently it is. Kinda of why I mentioned the report of a Leopard being killed by a Civet... Which you know? Not that big either? But I see this conversation won't go anywhere

[charred hearth]

the way shant is so iconic that its bigger then the resident sauropod in its formation

[fossil ingot]

Civet and Leopards is a Whole Different Issue
If you wanna bring that argument and not comparable at all
We can easily Bring Jaguars Killing Caimans Bigger than themselves😭

[tough parcel]

Do you have that report on you?

[runic heart]

I meant like, Spinosaurus is visually enormous. Rex would have no idea what to do.

[fossil ingot]

Which again
Even if you wanna ignore the bit over 2 tons Difference in weight.
Sarco isn't really that Built to deal with Sucho and Sucho still has the Intimidation Factor on its side

[undone rapids]

Bigger animals are usually stronger than smaller ones, that's why when a wolvarine kills a bear, its a pretty big deal since its very rare and not a normal/expected interaction.

[tough parcel]

And wolverines often get bodied by bears

I think the only recorded instance is with black bear(s)?

[charred hearth]

the wolverine that killed a polar bear somehow..in a zoo

[undone rapids]

Probably, I was just trying to say that those interactions are rare for a reason. Since most of the time a wolvarine isn't doing much to any bear

[queen oar]

Realistically, that last case doesn't happen because beyond the fact that Male Black Caimans have tougher integument than the other alternatives. Which is a pretty known fact for why Jaguars haven't been able to take down Male Black Caimans ever, but are able to take down Female Black Caimans, Broad-Snouted Caimans, etc

Btw, part of the reason why I thought it was important to ask how tough Sarcosuchus in general would be.

[green helm]

Pretty sure bears are more inexperienced in zoo

[outer tusk]

Are we saying suchomimus can go toe to toe with sarcosuchus

which it can't cause am biased

[undone rapids]

it can't, Sucho has 10 toes and Sarco has 20. Its Unwinnable

[charred hearth]

would you guys say nigersaurus made up majority of sarcos menu?

[undone rapids]

No, it was probably Fish that had that spot

[fossil ingot]

Rex feels visually Bigger
Taller at Head and Hips, Wider and you know
A Beast

[undone rapids]

I wonder if Spinos adopted even more upright postures when dealing with similar sized Predators

[fossil ingot]

We have a Report of a Jaguar likely Killing a 3.8m Melanosuchus, Jaguars have also Hunt Large Yacares that are bigger than the Jaguars Themselves, Don't think Broadies even Properly Interact with Jaguars.
The ones that do are Jacare and iirc Spec Caimans

[queen oar]

3.8 meters isn't a lot. Particularly the reason you don't find actual measurements of a Mature Male Black Caiman, but you tend to find estimates it's because they are absolutely large, they live most of the time in the water, they are territorial and, there's even videos of people slashing open the stomach of one and removing a whole Jaguar from their stomach contents...

That is not big

[lavish frigate]

There’s something about this design my brain keeps flagging as wrong but idk what it is, something with the head I think but i cant really tell

[fossil ingot]

Silveira et al. (2010) reporting the carcass of a 3.8 meter Black caiman killed by a Jaguar in Lago Mamirauá back in June 1999 and Silveira regarding the details of the interactions.

Translated message:

Hello dear friend. Apologies for the delay. I'm an occasional Facebook user. There were “combat” signs at the site. That's why we interpret that the açu was captured alive in a intense struggle! Merry Christmas

[stiff osprey]

historically they may have been larger but nowadays 3.8m is larger than the majority of adult black caiman

[fossil ingot]

3.8m is alot
Given the Largest Black Caiman was Alcino at 5m with a Unbroken Tail, The Average Black Caiman is not that Big
Individuals as Big as Pepe even who is like 4. Something meters is already Rare lol

[stiff osprey]

which granted the 3.8m is an outlier and there are no other reports of jaguars catching anything exceeding 3m

[sullen cairn]

maybe the real reason there are four obligate piscivores in the kem kem formation (eocarcharia, suchomimus, critatusaurus, and sarchosuchus) is because they were all forced into timid specialization out of fear of anhilation by ceratovenator

[fossil ingot]

The video of a Black Caiman having a "Jaguar Juvi" on its Stomatch is kinda ehhh
Also the Point and your Whole Point
Was "killing animals bigger than themselves"
Which kinda shows the Point

[runic heart]

Ah. I didn’t realize.

[stiff osprey]

kem kem eocarcharia (carcharodontosaurus), kem kem suchomimus (spinosaurus) and kem kem cristatusaurus (sigil)

[fossil ingot]

Real

[fossil ingot]

Yeah
Then again, Jaguar Prefered Caimans is Yacares (poor Fellas, they get bullied by both Black Caimans and Jaguars)

[runic heart]

Isn’t spino bulkier than this?

[sullen cairn]

wouldnt eocarcharia be sigil given both were thought to be carchs before being spinosaurids of very questionable synonymy with the most famous spinosaurid from the unit whose names starts with an S

[fossil ingot]

Wdym Bulkier?
Spino Torso isn't really deep
Its decently wide, just not deep

[sullen cairn]

its really too bad longrich took down the the ceratovenator post because i forgot everything he said there besides the picture

[fossil ingot]

He looks fine

[stiff osprey]

that's true although then cristatusaurus would have to be a secret third thing

[sullen cairn]

if you believe hard enough that one study that concluded cristatu was a non-spinosaurine non-baryonychine will come true

[fossil ingot]

My Fav Animals...

[compact leaf]

they feared the multitude of colossal herbivores in the formation

[charred hearth]

largest therapod in utah?

[runic heart]

I guess I’m just wondering if it COULD be bulkier. Because isn’t this skeletal based on sigil spino material?

[stiff osprey]

allosaurus or torvosaurus

@runic heart the only part that's based on sigil is the back half of the neck, body is all spino

[charred hearth]

really? not siats or the other therapod that lived in cedar?

[stiff osprey]

idk how heavy siats is

[charred hearth]

it was siats, utah and something else

[stiff osprey]

though if the siats type is indeed immature then i guess it would beat allosaurus

the other cedar mountain carch is small

[fossil ingot]

Wasn't your siats edit like 4.7-5.2t?

[stiff osprey]

that would put it tied with epanteriallo and edmarka

[charred hearth]

i always thought acro lived in utah but ig not

[fossil ingot]

Conc without sail

[stiff osprey]

Tyrannosaurus probably lived in utah seeing as it lived both north of utah and south of utah

but no fossils yet

[sullen cairn]

the humble north horn formation

[stiff osprey]

actually this formation housed the utetyrannus

[fossil ingot]

Like Random said
Body is all Spino,
Only tge back half of the neck is based on sigil.

[fossil ingot]

13m Siats is Real, source?
I choose to Believe

[queen oar]

Spinosaurs kinda of all just have the barrel-shaped body, unfortunately

[sullen cairn]

this was vaugely implied once by one of the nmmnh bulletin people years ago and and never once elaborated upon
although as we now know gsp lives and dies by questionable nmmnh bulletin people claims so perhaps there's a chance

[fossil ingot]

Watch Fadeno make a Siats, and we get a 7t mature Siats

[charred hearth]

what makes alamotyrannus different from rex

[tough parcel]

T. rex is valid while Alamotyrannus is made up

[runic heart]

T. rex exists

[tough parcel]

Me when I say the same joke but the same volume

[frosty cedar]

Me too. It's still enormous either way, and I'd definitely shart my pants either way if I saw one in real life.

[runic heart]

[charred hearth]

is this dasp oversized

[bright veldt]

Not really no. The largest das's got big compared to gorgo and alberta.

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Pete III is Big bur like
It shouldn't dwarf Gorgo like that

Alberto is the smallest of the 3, Largest Gorgo is so close with some Dasps of Size
And Pete III isn't really much larger than even the Torosus Holotype

[tough parcel]

What if I just made them all the same size

[sullen cairn]

11m dasp son or 12m tarbosaurus daughter

[fossil ingot]

Pete III isn't really noticiably bigger than the Dasp here
Dasp is Still Heavier, OBVIOUSLY
But in terms of Height they are about the same
Dasp is longer and heavier

[fossil ingot]

Would remind me of this

[tough parcel]

Factual information...

[fossil ingot]

12m Tarbo would be so funny looking given how Big the Mfs Head is already

[balmy oyster]

What if bighead tarbo is only a sub-adult condition and the head became proportionally more rexlike as it matured

[fossil ingot]

Would be weird
Given PIN 551-1 is an Adult
And Tarbo overall just shows to be Booblehead even when Baby/young

[charred hearth]

was there any between bodytype wise between Daspletosaurini and Tyrannosaurini?

[white matrix]

why does have like no muscle

[fossil ingot]

It does have
Theres also the version with the Skinnier tail

[queen oar]

12 meters Tarbosaurus daughter

[queen oar]

The head is not really that big. Even if it was, didn't this like already happen in Tyrannosaurus once too? Because MOR 008 is another Booblehead

[fossil ingot]

The Rex is Longer, and about 2 tons Heavier
With the same Skull Length

[queen oar]

doesn't really change anything about my point, does it?

[fossil ingot]

Rex isn't really Booblehead Proportionally
Not as Much as Tarbo is
Random here basically gives Tarbo in a Nutshell

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Tarbo Proportionally is "bobblehead" even for its Family
Its Head is big in proportions to its body when compared to the rest of its Family
I would need to looknfor a Reference for MOR 008

[queen oar]

so, i'm not talking about Tyrannosaurus in general, i'm talking about MOR 008, which is a Tyrannosaurus

[fossil ingot]

Custer isn't Tarbo's Lvl of Bobbehead

[queen oar]

Doesn't seem that Tarbosaurus isn't any level of bobblehead then, if that's the case.

[fossil ingot]

What?????

[balmy oyster]

MOR 008 is yet another Rex skull that seems to have been taphonomicly crushed

[tough parcel]

And/or strangely reconstructed

[fossil ingot]

Plus you can make Custer look
Overall normal even with said Skull

[charred hearth]

would a baby sauropods main goal be gettign to the larger adult herd or would they not want to be in that due to the possibility of getting crushed?

[tough parcel]

Trackways show adults and young didn't intermingle until the young were like...~50%(?) of the adult size so I'd say so

There's an exception or two but these are smaller sauropods

[ashen wedge]

I think they wouldn’t be around the adults

[fossil ingot]

I still love my boi Tarbo
Big Head, Proportionally shorter Arms than Rex, Cool Wide Head, Cool Teeth

[compact leaf]

yeah not much point getting to your parents if they’re likely to crush you by accident

[full lagoon]

Aren't they thought to have lived in more forested, dense areas to improve their survival odds?

[charred hearth]

would smaller sauropods like amarga, niger etc also be like that or no due to them being smaller?

[tough parcel]

There's an exception or two but these are smaller sauropods

[compact leaf]

prosauropods and europasaurus show evidence of their young actually requiring some degree of parental care, so yeah smaller sauropods like that may have kept young around earlier

[charred hearth]

not everyone can read okay? you dont know what its like to have both your eyes taken out by someone who sold them on ebay for 3 dollars to buy a sprite

would large hadrosaurs have had their young with them or no? like, shant is massive and could also accidentally trample its kids

[compact leaf]

there’s also a trackway of a sauropod (maybe brachiosaur) where it’s two smaller ones tailing a single adult, and we also have trackways of younger sauropods forming herds of their own age group

[full lagoon]

I would assume the behavior would vary as they got larger over time

[drifting bough]

That’s so cute! 🫶

[queen oar]

I won't continue after this question, but are you sure the cervical vertebrae don't seem a bit large compared to the skull, at least based on the previous Tyrannosaurus skeletal you shared early?

Probably it's my impression.

[sullen cairn]

isnt mor 008 just a skull and an atlas

as in i dont think we know its head/body proportions much at all

[queen oar]

It's fair, but also... I wouldn't imagine the skeleton would change much, would it? Unless it does, and then I'm completely wrong

[fossil ingot]

Yeah tmk just a Big Skull
Thats very likely distorted

[sullen cairn]

sizewise i'd kinda hope the skeleton is variable between individuals yeah

[tough parcel]

Perhaps that's why we've not found any baby T. rex

They hatch fully formed

[fossil ingot]

He Cool tho

[sullen cairn]

as in we cant comment on how bobbleheaded mor 008 is because we have barely any idea how big the body would've been in the first place (and by extension proportionally as well)

[stiff osprey]

given that every measured bone of mor 008 is similar in size to amnh 5027 i have to assume its skull was similar in size to amnh 5027

[sullen cairn]

this would make it pinheaded based on sue sized atlas et al

[stiff osprey]

damn we're atlas scaling now

[sullen cairn]

tragically we're working on the premise mor 008 can be decided as bobbleheaded or pinheaded for some reason so what can ya do

[stiff osprey]

who would win sue sized skull with amnh sized every bone or amnh sized skull with sue sized neck

actually mor 555 seemingly has the same neck length as sue despite being a meter shorter in the rest of the body so i think smallhead 008 wins

[fossil ingot]

Lol

[robust crane]

is life as an animal sucks

[stiff osprey]

not having a consistent food supply and being at risk of dying at any time sucks but on the other hand you don't have school, a job, or capitalism

[robust crane]

does being way more stupid matters?

[stiff osprey]

if you were stupid you wouldn't know you were stupid so i imagine it wouldn't matter

[thorn grove]

blissful ignorance

[charred hearth]

i have a question, what is each sense best for when hunting?

i know sight is best for seeing prey far away but what about hearing and smell?

[thorn grove]

hearing prey and smelling prey

[stiff osprey]

smell is almost always more useful for anything that can't fly, since you can smell prey behind a rock or tree or hill when you can't see it

[thorn grove]

sight functions better during the day and is probably the most important for coordinating body movements, hearing and smell take over more at night and help you when there isn't a direct line of sight to prey

[stiff osprey]

sight is usually necessary for pinpointing the exact location of prey and the distance to get there, although hearing can take over for nocturnal hunting

[charred hearth]

why would rex's sight need to be so good if what majority of what it hunted was large , herding creatures then? i feel like hearing would be better to hear them from far away, no?

[stiff osprey]

it already has the biggest (in absolute terms) olfactory lobe of any animal i don't think it particularly needs to hear things far away

[charred hearth]

what does that do, i have no clue what that is ToT

[thorn grove]

sight can be good for detecting weaknesses from a distance (I.E. a limp) plus a lot of precision attacks will require good visual information

[stiff osprey]

olfaction = smell

also rex having super good vision is a paleomeme, the range of estimates goes from a little worse than human vision to eagle vision

[charred hearth]

oh.

would azdarchids primarly rely on eyesight?

[stiff osprey]

idk don't think anyone's found a 3d azhdarchid brain

[tough parcel]

Perhaps in a few years, the T.rex will receive its first nerf and we will discover it was blind much like the future predator

[charred hearth]

the future predator was a fraud because how do you get beat up twice by creatures in the past

[thorn grove]

how could Tyranus get nerfed I thought it could go super saiyan and was currently in bed with your mom

[stiff osprey]

a grizzly bear will surely defeat a t.rex because of its mammalian cunning it lived further in the future than t.rex

[charred hearth]

was the future predator a mammal i forgot

[stiff osprey]

yeah it's a bat

[charred hearth]

how do you shrink wrap a elephant

[queen oar]

Not sure if that is shrinkwrapped

Different species, but I guess comparable?

[thorn grove]

You see humans are the most epic and op animals ever and we;re mammals therefore mammals are better than everything else

ergo a bear beats a t rex in a fight

[drifting condor]

Rex after hearing edmontosaurus glazers

[stiff osprey]

regalis could kill an albertosaurus with a single punch (wwd, 2025)

[thorn grove]

it's true

regalis was a force to be reckoned with no puny Tyrannosaur would dare challenge it

T. rex actually evolved to be so large specifically in response to E. regalis unfortunately the younger generations got lazy and couldn't keep up their fight

[queen oar]

Campanian T. rex

[thorn grove]

yes

actually no T. rex evolved directly from Albertosaurus because they got tired of being humiliated by the mighty regalis 24/7

Don't worry about them being in two completely different subfamilies

[queen oar]

No, actually, T. rex is a hybrid lol

[thorn grove]

T. rex is descended from Zhuchengtyrannus Jesus who walked on water across the entire Pacific

X-Rex is the Shant he brought with him as a packhorse to carry supplies

[lavish frigate]

This is true actually, I was there

|| if the mods knew enough paleo talk to tell we were joking we’d all be banned instantly for having fun 🙏 ||

[robust crane]

why is the front feet so much higher than the hind legs

[queen oar]

i think that's only an impression

[queen oar]

Do you guys have photos or any sources of the undescribed material of Ichthyovenator?

[coral forge]

This might have something to do with it but idk

[plush fossil]

I wonder why people get so mad about dinosaurs being 'nerfed' (especially spinosaurus)
Cuz hello?😭 You can't nerf something by making it look more closer to how it did in life, also spinosaurus looks way more cool now, rather than just being a generic theropod with a sail and a long mouth
Offtopic btw but I was thinking about this

[green helm]

probably because of animal vs animal debates

[plush fossil]

Yeah, which is dumb😭 cuz in what world is t.rex and spinosaurus brawling it out?

[green helm]

imagine it like death battle

[balmy oyster]

Jurassic park

[plush fossil]

APART from that : ' D

[green helm]

''its time for DEATHHH BATTLEEE''

[plush fossil]

Also how do we feel about the dilophosaurs in the new dinosauria animation? Personally I love them

[coral forge]

edmontosaurus too now ig

[astral spindle]

EdMUSTHosaurus

[green helm]

2 dinosaurs stretching their jaw muscles

[plush fossil]

Reminds me of that one game Markiplier played where you gotta bite your opponents face off or whatever

[tardy dune]

Question

Did edmont new feet hoovs make it better at weight bearing and potentialy faster pivoting n quick movements?

[plush fossil]

What's the difference between geosternbergia and pteranodon?

[fossil ingot]

Ahh yes
Ppl mad "Deinosuchus" got nerfed

[green helm]

be honest we havent seen anyone get mad

[green helm]

The main difference is the crest on the head: Geosternbergia had a large, upright crest that projected backward, while Pteranodon had a smaller, backward-curving crest according to google ai

[plush fossil]

I take everything ai says with a grain of salt, even if it's true
Maybe a mountain-load of salt actually

[tough parcel]

There (probably) is no difference considering some paleontologists say Geosternbergia = Pteranodon

[plush fossil]

Alright cool, thanks : ) was just wondering cuz I see them both being referred to as eachother (if that makes sense) and was confused

[tough parcel]

Yea, that makes sense, it's what I was saying

[fossil ingot]

Not here
But BOI Reddit was Chaos LOL
There was even a Reddit Poll of it

[green helm]

meh i dont have reddit anyways

[plush fossil]

Peak pfp btw

[green helm]

puru shall be next on the downsize list

[plush fossil]

I'm the 1st largest semi aquatic predator actually

[green helm]

do you believe in crocodilian bias

[plush fossil]

No clue

[charred hearth]

i think we're ignoring the elephant in the room

[proven hearth]

I feel like this lil guy could make for an interesting addition

Similar size to ano, trades defense and bonebreak for speed raw damage and bleed

[hardy sentinel]

Depending on who you ask, Geosternbergia is another species of Pteranodon that has an upright crest similar to lambeosaurus instead of the backwards facing crest you'd usually think of Pteranodon having

[plush fossil]

oooh i see, thanks : )

[hardy sentinel]

Also a fun fact about em, they have some of the strongest (supposed) sexual dimorphism in pterosaurs

[runic heart]

What’s the most up to date mapusaurus skeletal or reconstruction?

[drifting condor]

?

[astral spindle]

Not heard of the Edmusthosaurus?

[drifting condor]

Yes

[outer tusk]

original skeletal (Beagliam/Liam Power) and edit skeletal for (Randomdinos)

[full lagoon]

It's insane that one of these exists today and is typically overlooked

[outer tusk]

Brick can also work

[queen oar]

Just use Liam Power's work, it's better

[fossil ingot]

Liams is based on the more Recent Marexes based Mapu so should be better

I mean
Do we have Proof?
Not saying he didn't do it
But we would need actual Proof

[drifting condor]

Whats your favorite dinosaur mine is so Nettapus auritus

[charred hearth]

looking up and then procceeding to say a scicentific name does not make you special or unique

[coral forge]

everything other than corythosaurus

[drifting condor]

What

[coral forge]

geese are bottom 5 waterfowl ngl

[drifting condor]

Son😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[queen oar]

In general, he does Allosauroides just better.

[drifting condor]

Would ouranosaurus encounter charchardontosaurus

[coral forge]

no

[runic heart]

Nah they lived separately.

[green helm]

different time periods too right?

[ancient crystal]

This is probably not true but I could see it

[charred hearth]

gorilla steak sounds tasty

[ancient crystal]

No it does not

[runic heart]

Same place, different time.

[foggy river]

omg theyre so cute...

[balmy oyster]

Classic beast

[green helm]

ofcourse its twitter they will think of anything that can be negative

[balmy oyster]

You do know this is probably satire right

“Harhar mrbeast bad he eat gorilla!!!”

[fluid inlet]

Not paleontology @tight kettle

[paper parcel]

Mammalians and therapsids are far more serperior then any dinosaur or reptile, and I am tired of not saying it.

[wind prairie]

low level bait
all clades of animals are inherently cool

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/hehehe-gif-8803924313447176056

[balmy oyster]

it took a giant catastrophic space rock to make it so mammals could come on top and even then archosaurs were still becoming terrifying predatory equivalents

[paper parcel]

Ah yes. A space rock that was less of a mass extinction then, yknow the literal worst mass extinction to ever happen, the great dying

[balmy oyster]

what's your point? literally everything died in "the great dying", that's...kind of the point

[paper parcel]

Dinosaurs literally only exist because of it lmao, also mammals did survive the great dying along with dicynodonts, the not mammals kinda, and it took a second triassic jurassic extinction to kill them

[balmy oyster]

mammals too technically. a lot of modern day stuff or things prominent in the Mesozoic came to be because the entire planet decided it wanted to self combust.

archosaurs were all busy competing with one another until the end of the triassic, so even if dinosaurs didn't come on top another archosaur clade very likely would've taken the place

mammals only came out "superior" because they took niches in extremely small areas and low in trophic levels, which to their defense was a pretty smart idea since it lets them be able to bounce back from catastrophic events a lot easier.

nothing beats frogs though, which apparently had no significant decrease whatsoever from the Mesozoic extinction.

[paper parcel]

If the permian extinction event didn't happen it would probably not be that different from today, since alot of the therapsids do somewhat resemble modern animals

[balmy oyster]

you can say this about practically anything. if there was no land runoff events during before the carboniferous then we'd still probably have placoderms roaming around

idk if concluding things surviving extinction events to be more "superior" than something because it's just a really big web of luck and what is actually happening that leads to an extinction event

if we do, then frogs are clearly the most superior lifeforms.

[sullen cairn]

is pot chat really gonna make someone have to say birds are dinosaurs as a meaningful conversation point

[paper parcel]

Mammals are overall smarter, have a better chance of having their young not die, can also lay eggs, have higher biodiversity, and are bigger then dinosaurs, such as the sperm whale and blue whale, blue whales are also the biggest animals ever just not in land.

[balmy oyster]

"overall smarter" based on what
"have a better chance of having their young not die" based on what
"can also lay eggs" only like...two basal species
"have higher biodiversity" aren't there more bird species than mammals (but then again also bats, so maybe flying stuff just spread out and speciate easier)
"and are bigger then dinosaurs" whales are an exemption to this, ichthyosaurs did the same thing cus weight restrictions are vastly different then on land

4 baseless claims, and one technically true one but only for an extreme minority of basal outlier species...

[paper parcel]

Cetaceans, primates, elephants, even the hyrax is smart, alot of the bigger dinosaurs simply laid tons of eggs like sea turtles

[queen oar]

Can't win IRL, so they win in online arguments lmfao

[tough parcel]

This has to be bait guys...

[balmy oyster]

eh probably, good bait if true ngl

[undone rapids]

It caught a fish, so def a good bait

[paper parcel]

Gotta make it personal when the other person has a good argument.

[queen oar]

LMFAO

[balmy oyster]

there ARE fishing bats...

[balmy oyster]

you're right, I definitely did try to use knowledge I learnt from the past in this convo, thanks for the compliment

[paper parcel]

Now your trying to bait me I wasnt even referring to you lmao

[balmy oyster]

bruh why did the chat die 💔 this was starting to get funny

[sullen swallow]

A channel reminder to please be respectful when discussing topics in this server, even if you disagree with someone's opinion. Please keep in mind that antagonising, insulting or harassing other users will result in mutes being handed out, thank you for understanding!

[compact leaf]

mammals are the least diverse group of vertebrates yeah, we might just barely beat amphibians because like half of them have gone extinct in the last two centuries

[balmy oyster]

Forget dodo’s and mammoths let’s bring back the prionosuchus!!!

[paper parcel]

Lisowicia, and dimetrodon

[charred hearth]

those are both reptiles

[balmy oyster]

They’re synapsids 😭

[paper parcel]

No, or gorgonopsid, or doedicurous.

[fierce quarry]

What a cutie

[paper parcel]

Kind of weird how there wasn't any flying synapsids or protomammals, that we know of

[fierce quarry]

Maybe we'll discover one, one day

[paper parcel]

Giant flying bat pterosaur looking thing that eats people

But yeah, if only there was someway to revive every synapsid

[charred hearth]

why can you let me humble him like you

[balmy oyster]

Cus I wasn’t tryna ragebait

[charred hearth]

your built like a stellar sea cow

[balmy oyster]

How dare you call me a vegan…

[paper parcel]

You really can't lol, synapsids are closer to mammals then reptiles

[charred hearth]

so fat not even a orca can drown you

imagine jumping from stellar sea cow to stellar sea cow

[balmy oyster]

It would be like trampolines

[charred hearth]

would it count as animal abuse?

[balmy oyster]

Probably

[charred hearth]

what are you talking about

[tough parcel]

If you have 300 Allosaurus and 2 Torvosaurus, which animal is going to showcase more injuries?

[charred hearth]

???

[river plinth]

https://youtube.com/shorts/gDYABSTUjxA?si=wrNlymxc-L-quhJJ

[river plinth]

New edmontosaurus discovery dropped

[tough parcel]

Or we have more Allosaurus than any other theropod hence why there are more injuries than any other theropod? Like what I said earlier?

Dilophosaurus and Gorgosaurus already show nasty injuries despite having 5 specimens (Dilo) and...probably less than 15 for Gorgosaurus

[balmy oyster]

Also I don’t think framing allosaurus as a “UBER KILLER OF ULTRA DEATH” is very sensical reasoning

[charred hearth]

if it was such a killer why do we have so many dead? beat that liberal

[tough parcel]

The bottom part has wording that indicated you were still confused hence my second message

[balmy oyster]

“Greetings, m’fellow lady’s” ahh responses

[full lagoon]

What has this even digressed into lmao

[undone rapids]

Morrisson formation is very big, like goes from canada to mexico iirc and covers a very large period of time of the late jurrassic, so alot of late jurrassic fossils are found in NA

More fossils you find, more chance of finding stuff that was injured in some way or another

[full lagoon]

Technically, no class of animal is particularly superior over another, and it's rather unintelligent to believe so. All animal types have strengths and weaknesses, and the only thing that truly matters is finding a niche.

You can say you love mammals and synapsids without crapping on archosaurs.

[jagged trellis]

the same reason people glaze tigers yet don't glaze sunbears( not a perfect comp seeing niches but as in the: omg tiger scawy): because the amount seen is flawed by filters
allo wasn't exactly a roid mongoid
we just have 5 billion of em to have some
ah someone alr said that

[undone rapids]

Bonebeds? Yeah those are cool.

[charred hearth]

which fossils have worse injuries, allo's or rex's?

[undone rapids]

Allos prob, esp considering that one that got hit by a stego

[balmy oyster]

Don’t we have a rex specimen that had its entire tail ripped off

[full lagoon]

Wyrex, he's at my local museum

[stiff osprey]

two allos that got impaled to death vs t.rex that died from its entire tail disappearing

[full lagoon]

It survived a while afterwards surprisingly, enough to show significant healing

[stiff osprey]

Granted the whole idea that Wyrex's tail loss happened before death was disputed and it wasn't until like a few months ago that any healing was actually noted

[undone rapids]

Didn't cau say that its unlikely it was while the rex was alive, he had a post on it

[balmy oyster]

I wonder if we’ll ever find a fossil of a rex with its head impaled by a trike

[jagged trellis]

i imagine all 3 had some migraines with that

[full lagoon]

Interesting, so evidence of healing was baseless? Sheer bias to spice it up?

[stiff osprey]

No there does seem to be evidence of healing, but it's a one sentence writeoff in a paper and we don't really know what it means

[balmy oyster]

Rex has some really interesting specimens but they’re glossed over edmontosaurus mummies (which are also really cool tbf)

New edmonto mummy is awesome but WDYM THE REX IN FRONT OF IT HAD “traces of feathers” LET’S LOOK AT THAT

[undone rapids]

Probably, i don't think its 100% due to a stego. But its the most popular suggestion

[stiff osprey]

https://twitter.com/deak_michael/status/1756747506828866046?t=yUuKZwwLTOFaLjzwbrrzdg&s=19

Michael Deak (@deak_michael)

So, what actually happened to the tail of @hmns T.rex known as "Wyrex"? Anné et al. 2022 made some brief comments on the specimen The caudals exhibit "severe reactive bone growth", suggesting that the amputation occurred while Wyrex was alive, and not post-mortem.

X · Feb 11, 2024, 6:30 PM

[undone rapids]

Sereno already mentioned in a vid that it has no feathers.

[balmy oyster]

Ag okay

[jagged trellis]

i imagine alot of mammoths would be lovely canidates for most messed up remain starts
don't we have 1 that literally died upright w its body draining from a lake

[stiff osprey]

lmao they put "once feathered" in the poster just to bait people

[undone rapids]

Everyone must visit the Dungeon

[hallow spear]

I wonder if it lived this

[hallow spear]

Considering most of its Cfm is gone, and the fact it would be very severely unbalanced

[charred hearth]

whats the worst injury we know a rex survived?

[stiff osprey]

It may have lived for a month or 2 since it would take a while for a carnivore that big to starve to death

Assuming it didn't die immediately of blood loss, but if it had there wouldn't be any signs of bone healing at all

[hallow spear]

I imagine it wouldn’t have even been close to being able to reposition itself so that it’s COM would be above the feet

[undone rapids]

Maybe it assumed a retrosaur posture to survive....

[full lagoon]

Cartoon ass posture rex

[stiff osprey]

It would be able to stand fine as most of the mass of the tail is in the first 10 caudals. Walking would be a problem though

[hallow spear]

Perhaps the tail was fully broken off from the attached caudal but didn’t fully detach from the body due to the skin holding it on

[undone rapids]

Stans neck verts show signs of injury iirc.

[full lagoon]

It also does raise the question if they would bleed out in the same way as like, a large mammal

[stiff osprey]

I mean we know (assuming the paper isn't talking about something unrelated that ALSO happened to the tail) that it lived long enough for bone healing. Which takes weeks

[balmy oyster]

I mean it could’ve just sat around until it died while the tail slowly healed (what random said)

[undone rapids]

It prob bled out over the course of those few weeks

[full lagoon]

I would assume it would be slightly different for a reptile, right?

[stiff osprey]

Oh yeah no it would 100% starve eventually

@glaive i don't think anything takes weeks to bleed out

[tough parcel]

Perhaps the T. rex was a social animal

[full lagoon]

My assumption is that it did survive but the complications sealed it's fate

[balmy oyster]

It’s funnier to think of a rex running around like a goose after a small edmontosaur

[full lagoon]

Do you think it was possible for them to posture more like older depictions?

I know that the spinosaurus is oftentimes portrayed as standing more upright due to its unique proportions

[stiff osprey]

Any theropod can stand like that, it would just be hard to walk like that for long distances because of the limited rom of the femur

[tough parcel]

Or the Tyrannus was taken care of by a partner, perhaps this would explain extended healing...

[balmy oyster]

Or it sat in a really big hole that it dug out like a polar bear I saw on tv once

[stiff osprey]

The partner was not very good at it since it died anyway

[undone rapids]

Source? We should try it on a realism server!!!

[undone rapids]

A rex's partner? A regina, you could say

[tough parcel]

Tbf, it could just be the injury was worse than an animal can treat

Or the partner shotgunned it in the dome because it turned into a zombie

[stiff osprey]

i mean yeah i don't expect advanced surgery from a tyrannosaur (other than amputation)

But well, given the kind of injury gators can survive, it's easier to assume Wyrex did it on its own for a while

[tough parcel]

Clearly you have not seen Dinotopia season 3...

But my proposal is with the assumption hunting is hard, if not impossible, to sustain and heal an ~8 ton animal

I mean T. rex territorial battle

It's not like PoT where they were forbidden from killing or majorly wounding each other in battle

[stiff osprey]

Maybe it just had a full stomach when it got etailscerated idk

[undone rapids]

Very sharp tree

[stiff osprey]

Odds are it was a bigger rex. Wyrex isn't a particularly large specimen

[undone rapids]

What if died due to Nanotyrannus sprinkling salt on its wounds constantly.

[stiff osprey]

The pack hunting teeth of the Nanotyrannus eventually wore it down

[queen oar]

hey @hallow spear

[charred hearth]

does anyone have that size comparison between alamosaurus and rex?

[hallow spear]

Hi

[queen oar]

Wuerhosaurus

[hallow spear]

What about it

[queen oar]

nothing, i thought this would've been more funny in my mind

[tough parcel]

I mean it's either another T. rex or an undiscovered superpredator in the most well-sampled fossil formation ever

T. rex is not known from Point Pleasant, Virginia...