paleontology

[charred hearth]

jurassic world was open for 9 years and people already got sick and tired of them dinosaurs? 😭

[full lagoon]

(impossible)

[compact leaf]

it’s not so much that, we have sauropods coexisting with ornithopods for a long time, more so that almost every other sauropod group just disappears from most of the world

[thorn grove]

I'm not saying they were directly driven extinct by competition with Ornithopods, it was more of a general observation

[full lagoon]

I wonder what caused the shift and decline of those groups tbh

[balmy oyster]

Rise of ornithischians in North America and Asia made it harder for even titanosaurs to get their footing

The southern hemisphere was largely unaffected though, you got sauropods trying to cosplay as brachiosaurs and dicraeosaurs & carcha-like abelisaurs running around

[compact leaf]

anoxic event in the ocean, probably caused a cascade and big climate shift

[balmy oyster]

come to think of it, we only really ever find abelisaurs and abundance of sauropods in the southern hemisphere, while the northern was mainly ornithischian and tyrannosaur….

[full lagoon]

Interesting

[charred hearth]

shant after being asked if its gonna let its local sauropod be bigger then it:

[balmy oyster]

Didn’t it also squander out ichthyosaurs and Pliosaurs? Pretty notable extinction event

[compact leaf]

yeah it probably took them out in a more direct way, then terrestrial ecosystems started to feel it

[thorn grove]

tbh everything in Wangshi has ended up bigger than I thought so at this point I'm just half expecting a random 50+ t Zhuchengtitan upsize

[balmy oyster]

Barsboldia and saurolophus tried this but the mystery Mongolian footprint showed them who’s the largest

[compact leaf]

good old fashioned cascade (we’re about to get real familiar with that)

[charred hearth]

how plesiosaurids felt when all their opps died just to see monitor lizards starting to take diving courses off of ebay:

[full lagoon]

(Oh boy! )

[charred hearth]

whats bars/sauro's size compared to their local sauropods?

[balmy oyster]

Pliosaurs and plesiosaurs tried something interesting

Mosasaurs did nothing except break their tail and evolve flippers and called it a day

[jagged trellis]

that plot idea was always so stupid bro
dawg we still like elephants and zoos and big explosions
why would humanity magically get tired of dinosaurs
pug worthy dinosaurs sure seeing jw but dinosaurs still

[charred hearth]

wait...what evolved into itchyosaurs? we dont know what went into the water and became them??

[last adder]

Didn't Plesiosaurs specifically survive that event? I thought they made it to the end of the Cretaceous.

[full lagoon]

There's some basal itchyosaurs, actually

[balmy oyster]

Interestingly, I heard the ancestor to all of them…came around the end of the Permian. I need to check again, but if this is true it means ichthyosaurs (or at least their ancestors) were one of the only things to come out of the Permian into the Triassic

[charred hearth]

what were the others? synapsids?

[jagged trellis]

off topic but i forget your pfp is a fish sometimes and it just looks like a dude with a beard

[charred hearth]

also, how accurate is this apperance list

1 - itchyosaurs appeared first
2 - plesiosaurs appeared
3 - pliosaurs appeared shortly after
4 - moasaurids arrived very late to the party

[balmy oyster]

I have been referred to Michael Jordan before.

[thorn grove]

His pfp looks like a Puerto Rican guy in some really awful low budget animated show I watched one time

[jagged trellis]

and just like jordan i hope you're worth 4 billion dollars

[balmy oyster]

yay ty

[charred hearth]

Theverycutefishy irl

[thorn grove]

Sorry I meant Phillipines I got my P countries mixed up

[full lagoon]

Cartorynchus is one adorable example of this

[charred hearth]

philidephlia is a state.....

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/war-flashbacks-war-gif-15101623227599407239

how do you know this fish

[charred hearth]

bro got deeeep.io ptsd

[compact leaf]

that just gave me whiplash I forgot about that game

[balmy oyster]

I have war flashbacks…the great divide…

[jagged trellis]

anyways on a genuine note does anyone have some papers outside of wikipedias sourcing for 15-80k ya north and central america ecosystem wise
besides living stuff duh

[thorn grove]

the great divide was a pretty mid atla episode

[balmy oyster]

No but I think I know a server where I can ask

[jagged trellis]

do lemme know the results, just tryna think and better to have more source variance yknow
thank you regardless

[manic grail]

Call of duty has been releasing poopy games for the last couple years and millions still buy it

[coral forge]

what would happen to a hadrosaur that is being thrashed around by a tyrannosaur? Would it just die outright or would it take a bit longer

[manic grail]

Heavily depends on what part of the body is being attacked

[plush fossil]

Deeeep.io mentioned ❤️‍🩹

[ancient crystal]

If Philadelphia was a state I'd leave this country and never look back

[ashen wedge]

I’m pretty sure it ain’t a state

[coral forge]

forgot to specify the throat mb

[little mauve]

Depends on the tyrannosaur too, if it was a large adult with bone crushing teeth it might be quite a quick bite to the head or spine. An adolescent or a smaller genus with more ziphodont dentition might go for more slashing bites to the throat which takes a bit longer but is still fast. It's also possible that the killing bite happens after the prey is disabled from attacks to the thigh or caudofemoralis

[coral forge]

Any 2+ ton tyrannosaurid with their contemporary hadrosaurs

like lythro and brachy
Bista and para
Dasp and grypo
ect

like would it be

1. grab neck
2. thrash
3. dead hadrosaur

or

1. grab neck
2. thrash to disable
3. bite the head

[little mauve]

My point is that outside of alioramin all tyrannosaurine teeth become more incrassate through ontogeny, suggesting a change in prey and/or prey acquisition strategy. Considering the majority of a given population would not be full sized adults I think it's worth mentioning. Like I said full sized adults with thickened teeth and robust skulls would probably disable the animal with a crippling bite to the locomotor system, or possibly the spine, then finish it off with a bite to the head or neck. Puncture-and-pull is probably our best model for big tyrannosaur feeding, wherein the thrashing is to actually remove large chunks of flesh from the prey animal rather than thrashing to snap the neck like a dog or something

[coral forge]

So like immoblilse via bite to the leg or back then finish off with headshot for large adults like dasp and rex?
What about smaller ones like alioramins and young tyrannosaurines

https://youtube.com/shorts/eRou63Z2IQM?si=3x0nF6EcS6kvXP3W would this be an example of puncture pull feeding just replace the nigersaurus with a hadrosaur

[little mauve]

For very large prey I'd say that would be most likely yeah

[coral forge]

Alr
what about like a juve rex hunting an ornithomimus or an alioramus hunting a gallimimus
Just grab the neck while chasing or do the same as with hadrosaurs

[little mauve]

Puncture and pull is much more brutal than this. The bite occurs, the teeth go in, crush and grab flesh, then the head is whipped back with the chunk of flesh being severed in that motion causing massive wounds

[coral forge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/wq8BgDkKD8A?si=ngJcVl_penGXaJ65 like this? Jwe animations scale with size iirc so its more brutal with the larger carnivores

[little mauve]

Young tyrannosaurs or alioramins, stuff with more laterally compressed teeth, have weaker skulls but much faster bites. They would be more like a conventional theropod or komodo dragon with fast, slashing bites when taking on large prey. Smaller stuff could be snapped very quickly, like in a pursuit, then they'd probably go for the neck

[coral forge]

Is it literally just

1. Grab the thigh/base of the tail
2. Pull back with so much force the leg is dislocated/the tail is severed
3. Finish with bite to the head

[plush fossil]

Brutal, jeez

[tough parcel]

This implies it works exactly like that each and every time

Also I'm pretty sure "puncture-pull feeding" is only used during feeding, not hunting

[little mauve]

I wouldn't be that specific honestly, there's a lot of room for variation

I'd say it's more like (in a very general sense)

1. "grabbing bite"
2. "crippling bite"
3. "killing bite"

which may all be the same bite in some cases

[tough parcel]

The humble pitbull

[coral forge]

I know it wouldn't be exactly like that every single time but that's the ideal way of doing it right?

[little mauve]

the main difference being that pitbulls bite and hold, big tyrannosaurs would be using those serrations to cut flesh as they tear it away (hence puncture and pull)

[tough parcel]

I mean as I said, puncture and pull is a feeding method and not a hunting method

You don't need a quirky killing method when biting is gonna cause massive damage

[little mauve]

It's a method of flesh dismemberment, which applies equally to living or dead flesh, that's what is causing the massive damage of the bites. Overall this is a pretty simple hunting method

[plush fossil]

How accurate is arks Quetzalcoatlus? Not much I'm guessing?

[ancient crystal]

If it actually had that pose in game it would already be better than what it currently is

[lofty creek]

dinosaur full lips on both jaw and valid Nanotyrannus, which one is more pending or controversial in yall opinion?

(I'm asking this bcz i saw some people waiting for pnso to launch a full lipped trex. lol that isnt likely coming soon and they just dont know the attitude of pnso or the whole chinese paleo community on the lip thing)

[ancient crystal]

Lipped dinosaurs isn't controversial in the slightest

[compact leaf]

dinosaur lips isn’t actually controversial to anyone who isn’t a kook or misinformed at this point

[balmy oyster]

Aren’t archosaur lips already a widely accepted theory with proper reasoning backing it up over years now

[lofty creek]

do we
have a directly preserved lip or a print fossil on a dinosaur

[balmy oyster]

Tbf we don’t necessarily need any sort of preservation to provide reasoning for why some sort of skin covering for the mouth to aid protection from outside elements and keep some sort of moisture would be a good idea

Sure crocs & gators don’t have any lips (or soft tissue on their skulls as a whole) but some species are capable of being inactive for months as they hide away in burrows outside of the water (most are within environments that are usually always water-filled anyways)

Makes me wonder what you think about nanotyrannus tbh, since it’s still in need of further research and more specimens need to be studied

[ancient crystal]

Its unfortunate that all extanct archosaurs are the ones without lips, even though historically that was likely not the norm

[dry flower]

majestic dinosaur/giant bird!

[balmy oyster]

Everything nowadays is a bunch of freaks with toothless keratinized mouths or ultra shrinkwrapped skulls

[lofty creek]

ok but thats the problem, no direct fossil is found
I had to say the chinese paleo community didnt learned about the lip thing quite later than international community
yet, the whole community still remain a very cautious attitude on lips though years have passed by
(doesnt mean they hate lips, they just do not prefer a restoration with lip than a teeth exposed one so yall know the whole chinese market have no additional interest on lipped figures before a lip fossil is actually found)
as for PNSO, or Zhao Chuang himself as the artist, he simply hates lips
maybe yall guys know pnso once made a experimental trex head with full lip
they gave that up very soon after its shown publically since its just too ugly, "looks like a hippo"

i personally guess the problem wont be solved before a preserved lip or a print is actually found

[ancient crystal]

Nanotyrannus exists in some sort of liminal space between validated and invalidated and its only by further examination can you say for certain which it is.

In other words, Schrödinger's Tyrannosaur

[balmy oyster]

From my understanding, this just seems like a whole issue within a community revolves around model making & some guy’s personal bias because Chinese people didn’t like a fat faced Rex model that PNSO did

[lofty creek]

no
just lips thing
the whole community just doesnt like lips
the pnso tyrannosaurs actually have quite a good reputation except tarbo
also thats not just model making thing
once the whole community was laughing and criticizing a art of a full lipped trex on twitter for several days

wait a minute I had to found the art on X
maybe yall guys have seen that piece of art
the sneezing trex

[ancient crystal]

Why are they like this?

[lofty creek]

simply bcz no lip skin fossil or print is actually found so the whole community decided to be very cautious on this thing
the community is quite conservative, they dont like something with no directly fossil evidence sppported but only theory

and I reckon they will likely continue to behave in this style of cautious and conservative in the foreseeable future
if u are asking about pnso then its just the main artist and the boss zhao chuang hates full lip on both jaw like quite a bloody lot members in this community
(check pnso arts they posted on ins and yall can directly see that)

[queen oar]

how did the art look like?

[lofty creek]

a sneezing trex with full lip
im still trynna finding it

[compact leaf]

being conservative with lips is such a bizarre take, restoring a terrestrial animal without them is so much more of a leap

[queen oar]

damn... Just that made them all laugh??? Weird sense of humor, if you ask me

[lofty creek]

and a bulldog rex one iirc
bcz the community just classifies all rex restoration with thick full lip on both jaw as "hippo rex"
another example is the eofauna 2024 rex model

[queen oar]

that I can get behind lmao

[balmy oyster]

I’ve seen that model, I can understand why people wouldn’t like it but everyone immediately hating on the idea of it being lipped is kinda funny

[lofty creek]

only the ones with very thick lips would got strongly opposed tbh
some normal lipped ones like the newest yang or anax still sold very well
but the eofauna one was too impactive for them
they are not against lip itself
they just don't care it
like they dont consider a full lipped one as more realistic

[lost moon]

then the community is wrong - or at least, heavily biased. Calling fully lipped tyrannosaurus ‘hippo rex’ shows a very clear bias towards toothy dinosaurs. Wear patterns on teeth are a big factor here since they would be exposed to the elements, but we don’t really see that in the fossils. It’s not a lack of evidence for lips, it’s a lack of evidence for exposed teeth

[queen oar]

what if it was more lizard-based? Like, the thick lips, would they still laugh at it?

like this:

[lofty creek]

well they once had a argue on twitter for that iirc

[balmy oyster]

Probably not as thick tbh, archosaurs were pretty conservative with soft tissue from what we know & unlike monitor lizards have pretty large teeth that likely grew and were replaced fast

[charred hearth]

would marine reptiles have blubber ( or i guess the reptile equivelant? )

[queen oar]

I think Michael Deak ( I think it's his name? ) had showcased a comparison between Ceratosaurus nasicornis and Varanus salvadorii ( Crocodile Monitor ), and he didn't found Theropod teeth to be too large. And more so, in-line with the proportions seem in Monitor Lizards

[lofty creek]

can we send twitter link in this channel
i want to share a link of one of their paleo argument so yall can better understand what they are thinking about lip

[balmy oyster]

You should be able to

[lofty creek]

https://x.com/EdenBuster/status/1828864595060240539?t=h2oHlRDrXrfrbqTKTneg-A&s=19

超变EdenBuster (@EdenBuster)

@arvalis T-rex is different from lizards. The lower jaw teeth of T-rex can be completely nested into the upper jaw (the fossilized upper jaw has grooves for lower jaw teeth), in which case the excessively long upper jaw teeth may pierce the lips of the lower jaw

X · Aug 28, 2024, 6:37 PM

[queen oar]

I'll also take the opportunity to show the tweet in question...

https://x.com/deak_michael/status/1644361622574575616

Michael Deak (@deak_michael)

A little thought experiment for #FossilFriday. After using estimates from Madsen and Welles 2005 on the holotype of Ceratosaurus "magnicornis", and the data from Cullen et al. 2023, it turns out the supposedly long-toothed theropod is no more of an outlier than V.salvadorii.

X · Apr 7, 2023, 3:28 PM

[charred hearth]

thoughts? https://x.com/TMtheEQplusNerd/status/1980192723358622143

Tangmo Mopet (@TMtheEQplusNerd)

OH PLEASE DON'T GRIND DINOSAUR FOSSIL AS A PAINT FOR YOUR ART EVEN IF THE BONE IS FRAGMENTARY FFS

X · Oct 20, 2025, 8:41 AM

[warped peak]

I agree, they have a good point

It is remarkably stupid

[charred hearth]

a trilobite sacrificed itself to be someones paint

[queen oar]

yeah, it's idiotic

[balmy oyster]

you could use any other rock for this, using a fossil doesn't make you quirky

[queen oar]

foolish to assume they think they look quirky

[winter marsh]

imagine dying, fossilizing, becoming part of the earth itself and the history of our planet, be unearthed and becoming fricking paint for some john doe

[zealous ravine]

I think that’s less saying that the tooth size is that different from monitors and instead that Cerato isn’t that unusual compared to other theropods

[queen oar]

fair

[ionic crescent]

Worth noting thick lips varanids have won't allow dinosaurs to shed teeth as fast as they actually shed, something more basal like tuatara and iguanian like is way better

[queen oar]

Not sure. I've heard different arguments surrounding the matter...

If I'm not incorrect I believe a close friend has shared a blogpost from Theropoda, where it discusses the potential evidence of more extensive tissues surrounding the teeth of Theropods

Would you mind if I try to find that real quick?

[charred hearth]

whats general consesus on mosasaurids and venom?

[ionic crescent]

You are free to

But considering thick lips is a very very very derivative trait in lepidosaur family, so extrapolating it to whole archosaur family is from the beginning an incorrect take, you'd need to go the closest relative with or if not most basal ones from the other relatives, which in this case would be tuatara, then followed by iguanians

[queen oar]

Here. It is this one. Good Sir/Ma'am/Gentleperson

https://theropoda.blogspot.com/2025/10/il-piu-giovane-allosaurus-porta-nuove.html?m=1

[ionic crescent]

This one talks about gums mainly, and worth noting this correlates with crocodile relatives (reminder the "gnarly" look is basically their gums transformed)

Not lips per se

[tough parcel]

I think it’s worth noting when Feilong says “thick lips”, he means where the gums encase the teeth

When anyone else says “thick lips”, I have no clue what they mean but I assume not that considering the associated image does not picture that

[fossil ingot]

I love my Big Gorgo

[green helm]

Looks good

[fossil ingot]

Might as well be called
Tyrannosaur Formation

[ionic crescent]

Why do we keep talking about thick lips and people actually refers thick gums (the teeth coverer) ☠️

Is way too confusing

If the later, yes, is doable cause crocodiles, their closest relatives do

But worth noting crocodile and monitor one is pretty different, since monitor one makes shedding harder

Monitor covers almost the whole teeth, while crocodiles the base and then some

[ionic crescent]

I haven't had enough sleep yet, but in case it was a misunderstanding, we were talking about big drooly lips (lips, not gums)

You can have crocodile like gums and then normal tuatara like lips, which is basically the proper depiction until a mommified mouth is found

[manic grail]

How he so big

[winter marsh]

protobrachy has some long legs

[fossil ingot]

Who?
Alot of guys there are Big

[manic grail]

Gorgo

[fossil ingot]

Most likely a Femur based Guy

[undone rapids]

That's normal, Albertosaurines are just built like that

[manic grail]

its always them

[fossil ingot]

Yeah they tall

Alberto is very tall despite been only like
7.8m lol

[undone rapids]

Yeah, Its almost the same height, while being a good bit shorter in body length

[fossil ingot]

Alberto the Freak

[charred hearth]

thoughts on this transition species between ceratosauria and abelisaurids? https://x.com/heitoresco/status/1980308992162517486

Heitoresco (@heitoresco)

Indominus Rex as a Ceratosauria Dinosaur

X · Oct 20, 2025, 4:23 PM

[undone rapids]

Pretty cool

[balmy oyster]

welcome back, eoabelisaurus

[stiff osprey]

indominus canonically has the dna of like 5 different abelisaurs so it really should look like that

[fierce quarry]

It has so much different DNA...

[full lagoon]

Genetic modification isn't usually an even blend of traits anyways

[last adder]

More of choosing how traits would be expressed as well, just because for example, it has many abelisaurs in its genome, that doesn't mean abelisaur is the base or most prominent in it's body plan.

Hybridization (in terms of possessing a lot of genetic science and innovations like the Jurassic franchise) is often viewed as throwing animals into a blender and seeing what comes out, but realistically it'd be a lot more intricate and purposeful in design. The indom is actually a good example of that surprisingly.

To be entirely fair, that's already how people use genetic modification, but it's predominantly for developing food.

But that's an entirely different topic.

[neat notch]

How in tarnation does China have so many feathered fossils

Like fr half feather-having fossils in the world came from there?? Where the conditions on that place this good???

Or it was just bc of the sheer amount of fauna with this characteristics that dominated the region
Halp me

[neat notch]

Also, they never even ONCE utilized megaraptorian dna. If they did, Indom solos the mosa no diff
What a waste

[fluid inlet]

Someone give me a dinosaur skeletal to draw , I will use no reference of reconstruction

[little mauve]

They're practically all from one place, Liaoning, with exceptional preservation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehol_Biota

"The Yixian and Jiufotang Formations are considered Lagerstätte, meaning that they have exceptionally good conditions for fossil preservation. The fossils are numerous, but also very well preserved – often including articulated skeletons, soft tissues, colour patterns, stomach contents, and twigs with leaves and flowers still attached. Zhonghe Zhou et al.. (2003) deduced two things from this. The first is that the land animals and plants were washed into the lakes very gently, or were already in the lakes when they died. They do not show the damage seen in fossils formed by large floods. Secondly, volcanic ash is commonly inter-bedded with lake sediments, and ashfalls seem to have quickly buried the fossilized organisms, creating anoxic conditions around them and preventing scavenging."

[neat notch]

not a dino, but it's the only image I have downloaded in my phone @fluid inlet

Just pretend there's no flesh lol

[fluid inlet]

Ya this too easy because I already seen the body scales and everything lol

[charred hearth]

ik you can ride ostriches but that harms the animal, if you road a gallimimus would that harm the animal?

[ashen wedge]

Depends how big it is and how much you weigh, if you are a child, it won’t hurt nearly as much as a full grown adult

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/duck-angry-gif-23664491

WOOOHOOOO I love when irreplaceable pieces of science and history are written off as useless!!!

[tough parcel]

As a paleontologist once said

Still very unnecessary though ofc.```

[charred hearth]

what would've been the longest sauropods tail? like, i guess body to tail raito?

im gonna assume its either a diplodocid, dicreosaurus or rebbiachasaurus

[wind prairie]

I guess that is fair but, it's not like any more are just spawning in. Being reduced to paint just feels wrong but idk

[thorn grove]

I mean they're not literally "spawning in," but the number of fossils that we have access to naturally increases over time as land erodes and any fossils that aren't collected fairly quickly after exposure will be destroyed by natural processes anyway. I'd prefer they not be used for paint but it's not the most egregious thing of all time.

[lavish frigate]

Big paleo is making Copium Rex and Bruhathkayosaurus into paint to hide them from the public

[coral forge]

it also has t.rex (literally the base genome), deinosuchus, cuttlefish and pit viper DNA

10 of the animals used for it have small or no arms but only 3 animals (theri, velociraptor, tree frog) have large arms

[queen oar]

technically, which would've taken priority?

[coral forge]

yeah the base genome should take priority, and then the 6 abelisaurs, 1 stem crocodilian, 1 snake and 1 fish should be more than enough to give it tiny arms

[queen oar]

I was going to try and see what kinda of argument could've been made, but I guess, the only thing you could say it's that technically all of them would share something in common to Neotheropods? And then, Indominus has Neotheropoda arms instead of any of the derived arms. Since, none of them would've taken priority over the other, or wouldn't really be possible to combine.

I'm just guessing, just to clarify...

[coral forge]

I think the only real explanation is: It's a fictional animal that isn't supposed to be realistic and thats ok because its awesome

[queen oar]

that too... But it's also fun to speculate, no?

[frigid delta]

is Cardiodon valid?

[sudden wind]

For people interested into how do genes establish body plans, here is a cool video about it : https://youtu.be/5GghnmAGNZU?si=P9ABwzZSzWMLECOw

[thorn zinc]

Saw this nonsense on Facebook. Now I'll never get the idea out of my head.

[crystal dock]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-19549-8

[crystal dock]

This has to be the most normal Hodari spec Evo idea

[river plinth]

Thats the dumbest thing I seen what's even the point just use healthy bone at that point

[tough parcel]

@river plinth

[queen oar]

Nah ( ||It's not Hypnovenator|| )

[neat notch]

What a distinguished gentleman, he even lifts his tail to sit

[dim roost]

I actually quite like that idea, nature has done this quite a bit and even if its nonsense its still pretty cool

[hazy basalt]

How come everyone assumes Therizinosaurus couldn't use it's claws for digging, foraging, and self defense just because they were brittle? For comparison Smilodon is known for its notoriously brittle sabre teeth yet it still found way to use them to take down large prey.

[tough parcel]

Didn't Smilodon's teeth work well in every way except side-to-side movement which makes sense considering pulling a blade side-to-side after stabbing something isn't how it's supposed to work

[stiff osprey]

yeah, they are only brittle if pulled sideways

In vertical motions they are strong enough to pierce the skulls of other smilodon

[tough parcel]

Which is contrary to the Therizinus which just exploded when doing anything

[stiff osprey]

That's why the specimen we found has intact claws, it lived its entire life in a sealed vaccuum chamber

[tough parcel]

Innovation saved the species...

[undone rapids]

Theri was a Pacifist? It used Dialogue and Negotiation to Survive...

[queen oar]

tbh, I think this is sorta of underestimating how soft tissues can contribute to absorb certain stresses. Majority of these studies are more so analyzing the specific structures/organs just by what we have preserved... Which is not a lot, because it's just bone.

[manic grail]

hmm

[coral forge]

does anyone have a good alligator side view for a chart i cant find one for the life of me

[balmy oyster]

Because some people take stuff at face value and assume because a paper said theri’s claws weren’t made of solid steel they shattered on impact to a butterfly

[tough parcel]

Or these were the parameters tested in the paper...how curious

[balmy oyster]

Obviously the giant animal with giant claws would be able to stab things (and likely still be able to even if the claws break because a broken sword can still be dangerous if the breakage isn’t blunt)

[neat notch]

Were it's claws conical in shape or blade-like

[neat notch]

And they're telling us that shi ain't useful as weapons??

Paleontologists need to touch more grass and less rocks

[balmy oyster]

Theri’s claws really were useful, sure they exploded upon impact but explosions still hurt and would still be effective to a degree

[tough parcel]

This is why they used computer-generated models and not vibes-based reasoning

Unguals are scaled to the same surface area and illustrated in lateral view. This phylogeny is based on studies by Qin et al.7 and Zanno et al.

[neat notch]

Nerrrrrrrrrd

it's a jk don't smite me pls

[queen oar]

LMFAO

[neat notch]

Maybe even going to a farm to see a geese in person, not in manuscripts and tablets

[queen oar]

tbh, we should search for a different methodology and make our own paper on the usage of Therizinosaurus' claw in-life?

[neat notch]

It was just a 50 meter megaraptorian fr, they are dragons

[queen oar]

tbh tho, it's kinda of a bit stupid, when... I'm gonna bet alright? Literally " Let's go gambling " meme here... But if they used the same methods as that paper on... Ground Sloth claws they would also conclude something stupid like " Ground Sloths can't use their claws, because they are brittle ,you see ? ", and then somehow we would've to pretend that these giant herbivores who took idk how many years to develop their claws at that point, just evolved that for... No use.

[neat notch]

"But dragons don't exist, silly" not anymore, little Timmy. Don't forget to thank it later at bedtime

[tough parcel]

Actually the same paper did test ground sloths 😭
As previously hypothesised from functional simulation and track evidence12,44, the early-branching therizinosaurians with non-specialised unguals could be analogues of the giant ground sloths such as Megatherium. Our analyses support this hypothesis and further reveal a highly analogical function to unguals of the giant ground sloth Eremotherium. Also, like giant ground sloths, therizinosaurians were most likely herbivores, as their body forms do not support carnivorous ecology10, and their body size is far beyond the limits of insectivorous ecology13.

[sullen cairn]

tbf i think its a pretty reasonable assumption therizinosaurus was doing something relatively different to other theropods with its hands given the much worse ungual performance compared to like every other theropod
whether thats cause of some allometric thing that would've been negated with also overgrown keratin (which doesn't seem necessary for any taxon with smaller not super thin unguals) or they just generally did in fact have poor mechanical use idk

[neat notch]

On a more serious tone, they even have those little valleys that swords generally have to weight less while maintaining structural integrity

[tough parcel]

I mean so does every other animal

[sullen cairn]

but like i think the fact ground sloths exist (with pretty distinct ungual morphology from therizinosaurus) is kinda missing the point

[neat notch]

New word of power learned: Ungual

[queen oar]

Like idk, sometimes... You don't really need tests

Like, I was trying to search for this conversation, but I can't find the clip. But does anyone remember like... In " *The Truth about Killer Dinosaurs *", this one scene where they test if a Triceratops could charge, right? And they basically put a replica of a skull, and throw it against a Metal Wall, and when the skull obviously break they go " WOW! Triceratops couldn't charge! "

Like, it's the stupid thing similar to like... If you threw a Human Skeleton against a Car going 50 km/h and then when it blows into smitherings, you go " WOW! a Human can't survive from the impact of a Car! "

[sullen cairn]

is that really that similar to FEA though

[queen oar]

not really. It's a different method afterall, but it's kinda like... Similar levels of sillyness?

[neat notch]

Would a "crazy-proof" hospice room be effectively Trike-proof as well?

[queen oar]

Probably, who knows at this point?

[sullen cairn]

like the therizinosaurus thing was comparing relative mechanical performance relative to a bunch of other therizinosaurs/theropods thats not really the same was applying a set force/pressure like being chucked into a wall

[neat notch]

I bet it would love it. I mean, a bouncy floor? Zoomies inbound

[queen oar]

Bro is modifying their house to be Triceratops-friendly

[sullen cairn]

with the main point being that therizinosaurus unguals performed much worse relatively

[neat notch]

I need a industrial complex asap

[sullen cairn]

not to say FEA isn't without flaws but that's kinda unrelated to failing a single mechanical test with no point of comparison

[stiff osprey]

wait were the claws scaled to the same surface area for the test or just for the figures

[neat notch]

Gotta baby-proof their horns tho, it's a hazard by and for itself

[sullen cairn]

the tests were all to the same surface area

[stiff osprey]

oh then you could probably mitigate some of the weakness of theri's claws by the fact that they are larger in absolute terms

and also relative to the rest of the arm

[sullen cairn]

granted there'd presumably also be more force applied to the claws for the same reason

but from what very little I know about FEA i think models being scaled to the same surface area is whats supposed to be done for general comparison

[stiff osprey]

evidence that the therizinosaur moved in slow motion?

[queen oar]

I mean, I don't entirely disagree, but at the same time, it's kinda of those things that I feel it's only so experimenting that in theory. Not to say in practice takes priority, more so that... Sometimes, these are not considering additionals details or things that could've made the results particularly different... Not that it's bad, because that's the purpose of some of these tests. They are experimenting with whatever particular standards those respective authors have settled.

[sullen cairn]

isnt the triceratops thrown into the wall like the exact opposite in that case

[stiff osprey]

one of the main issues with FEA is you can't perfectly model the bone density and strength in different sections of the fossil as it would have been in life which understandably affects stress tests

but a physical model made of like plastic or steel or cow bones wouldn't be accurate either so in practice you just have the same problem

[sullen cairn]

this is why they should've used an actual triceratops fossil to smash into the wall

[neat notch]

NO-

[queen oar]

more so to say, both don't take priority over each other. Their results tell a partial truth, but it's also a matter of " What results would've been acquired if the conditions have been different? "

If per say, the Triceratops skull thrown in the wall, wasn't just a skull, but a Skull replica attached to the entire vertebrae of Triceratops, alongside reconstruction of the face and postcrania... Would've the results been different?

I'm just offering a hypothetical here because... Well, that's the only thing I can offer... Sorry.

[sullen cairn]

sure but for the sake of the therizinosaurus study it'd be like if every ceratopsid skull didnt explode on contact with the wall but the triceratops and then discussing why only triceratops exploded
like yeah sure maybe if they were actual fossils or had keratin it might not have exploded but i think there's still meaningful discussion to be had on the relative performance there

[queen oar]

I agree. Any discussion is useful.

[neat notch]

Don't forget soft tissues as well, bisons and rams make precious use of the muscles, cartilage, joints and fat to absorb the impact on their heads and spine

[queen oar]

It's what I meant with " Reconstruction of the face and postcrania... " I should've specified it more, so that's my bad! Sorry!

[neat notch]

Also, fossilized bones have VERY different density and tension from when it was live, actual bone

[sudden wind]

Omfg that discussion again

[queen oar]

The world is a Flat Therizinosaurus

[neat notch]

Don't be, just trying to add smt to the discussion

[zenith rose]

Heres a list of different animals from the Kayenta formation I’m drawing for a project!

Please correct any mistakes I may have so I can draw everything accurately! And please give me any animals I may have missed, (excluding crustaceans, shells, and fauna!)

1. Dilophosaurus Wetherilli
2. Coelophysis kayentakatoe
3. Eopneumatosuchus colberti
4. Kayentavenator elyside
5. Calsoyasuchus valliceps
6. Sarahsaurus aurifontanalis
7. Kayentasuchus Walkeri
8. Scelidosaurus harrisonii
9. Kayentachelys aprix
10. Ceratodus stewarti
11. Scutellosaurus lawleri
12. Lophionotus kanabensis
13. Potamoceratodus guentheri
14. Prosalirus bitis
15. Eocaecilia micropodia
16. Rhamphinion jenkinsi
17. Morganucodon oehleri
18. Navajosphenodon
19. Dinnebitodon amarali
20. Dinnetherium nezorum
21. Kayentatherium wellesi
22. Oligokyphus triserialis
23. Eopneumatosuchus colberti

Dinosaurs:

1. Dilophosaurus
2. Coelophysis
3. Kayentavenator
4. Scutellosaurus
5. Sarahsaurus
6. Scelidosaurus

Crocodiles:

1. Kayentasuchus
2. Eopneumatosuchus
3. Calsoyasuchus

Pterosaurs:

1. Rhamphinion

Turtles:

1. Kayentachelys

Amphibians:

1: Prosalirus (Frog)
2. Eocaecilia (Gymnophionan)

** Sphenodontid:**

1. Navajosphenodon

Fish:

1. Potamoceratodus
2. Lophionotus
3. Ceratodus

Mammals:

1. Morganucodon
2. Dinnetherium
3. Dinnebitodon
4. Kayentatherium
5. Oligokyphus

[charred hearth]

is this true?

[scenic flame]

tmk yes

[queen oar]

yah, pretty much traces over photos and renders of other people's works

[zenith rose]

That’s unfortunate :/

[queen oar]

Not really, 1 less AI Artist the community doesn't have to keep around

[zenith rose]

That’s true! Fortunate we found out so we no longer have to support him, but unfortunate we lost someone who we thought had some real talent

[fluid inlet]

Thoughts

[lavish frigate]

Thinking

[zenith rose]

Here are my thoughts of the environment in the Kayenta formation back in the Jurassic. Please share any thoughts.

I pretty much thought out the Kayenta to be dry for quite a bit, with hoodoos and rocky terrain, and throughout the year get gradually wetter and wetter into a sort of ..rocky wetland?

The soil gets less dense and accepts the water so little bits of greenery grow and the plants all come back, which is when all the amphibians, turtles and non 100% terrestrial crocs would come back into their heyday

I feel like there’d be a migration part of it for the larger herbivores. I also am curious to know what the largest herbivore in the area is (Sarahsaurus definitely wasn’t it) because the ecosystem 100% wouldn’t be functional if Dilophosaurus was the largest animal there

Usually an ecosystem does better if there’s larger herbivores, but Sarahsaurus definitely isn’t that. Some estimates bring it close to Dilophosaurus height while others keep it tiny tiny

[queen oar]

So, I was going to say there were footprints of potential large Prosauropods... But, I was confusing Kayenta with Elliot Formation

[zenith rose]

It would be pretty cool to find something a little larger. I know it’s out there but they haven’t found it yet

I know there are more track marks found of more prosauropods & theropods but they’re believed to also just be Dilophosaurus & sarahsaurus (which I’m speculative of, of course)

[queen oar]

Kayenta's dynamic is pretty much kinda like... I don't know any specific example i could cite here... But you know? Those ecosystems mainly composed of small animals and then there's like Birds of prey larger than them.

[zenith rose]

Yeah, I understand what you mean, it’s just so hard to believe that Dilophosaurus is really the dominant animal of the area. I just feel like it wouldn’t work given how large it is compared to literally everything!

It’s like taking the hippo away from the lion, nothing to keep it in line.

[lavish frigate]

I legit read that as the Kanye formation

[zenith rose]

lol

[queen oar]

Well, the size it's kinda debatable. Not so, the veracity of *Dilophosaurus' * size, but more so " Why did Dilophosaurus get big? ", because for example in the perspective of a carnivore, where you have a lot of small prey items, that mean you would had to deal with the struggle of sustaining yourself by likely acquiring more prey than necessary... But maybe you could make the argument that Kayenta had such a large population of animals available to Dilophosaurus, things like: They are able to produce large number of individuals, have a shorter time requirement to grow, etc. Where Dilophosaurus having a higher demand to sustain itself wouldn't affect the population of those respective animals

The other alternative would be that " Dilophosaurus got big because of something else ", and while it may sound likely... The issue is: What would it be? Technically, this alternative is a lot more speculative than the first one, because even speculating the identity of a potential larger carnivore requires one to make a lot of shortcuts to even manage explaining it's potential ( and potential only! ) existence, and even then the trend of Carnivores pressured by larger carnivores ( or other carnivores in general ), it's usually getting smaller because it means they don't have to waste so much energy and have a smaller demand to sustain themselves. To include it, there's also the potential of a large herbivore but I think that also has similar issues, since you would've to imagine how such animal would interact with that particular environment...

Dilophosaurus could... Be a generalist carnivore, it's not highly-specialized on any specific prey items and probably just got big... Because it could.

[little mauve]

Most Kayenta beds were deposited by ephemeral lakes and rivers that would dry up periodically, it was the edge of a massive desert. So not enough persistent vegetation for large herbivores, however these lakes and rivers supported a relative abundance of fish- a likely food source for theropods

[zenith rose]

I believe you’re likely right in both aspects here. It’s just such an odd concept for me to wrap my head around that it was just the biggest — it could very well be a coincidence we haven’t found any herbivore bigger, or very well there was nothing bigger. I do like the “it got bigger because it could” point you made, which in all honesty does sound plausible given the prey items. And I do definitely believe it was a generalist and not highly specialized, given its skull notch/rosette, and its powerful legs. I can see it both fishing, eating turtles, and chasing after fast prey, while occasionally hunting sarahsaurus (which there is fossil evidence of, I believe.)

I also like the idea you stated that there was just such a high population of smaller animals that it got bigger off of sustainability! I was thinking of an herbivore larger than it simply because of my personal migration theory (I want to preface I know nothing about geological realism other than the few basics I have read up on. Little to no specialty on this topic and I only have amateur hypothesis on this, of course. I am but a humble paleoarist). I believe it could have been possible that if there were a larger herbivore, it would’ve had to migrate when the rivers dried up and plants in the area were no longer sustainable. I’m not sure where, of if that could’ve been plausible, but it would be interesting to hear more if it had been. Of course when thinking of this I’m thinking of birds, and savanna wildlife.

@little mauve thank you for this! I didn’t know that! What a great picture to imagine. Do you think hoodoos would be plausible?

As I said in my paragraph above, I do believe it could’ve been a super small possibility that if there were (while unlikely, I suppose) a larger herbivore, they could’ve migrated out of the area. As I said before, then again, I’m not sure what greener climates were around close enough for them to do that if they could do that. Thank you for informing me about the lakes — it’ll definitely be something I can draw up at a later date. I had been confused of dilophosaurus’s notch/rosette until now. (I was aware there was abundant water in kayenta, just want 100% in what pattern until now).

If there was a possibility of a larger herbivore, what would either of you think it could be realistically?

[queen oar]

Personally, because mostly due to " Visual Performance points", I think a Thyreophoran, " Why ? ", because I think the image of a Dilophosaurus hunting a prototype of Stegosaur and Ankylosaur sounds fire as hell!

But being realistic, the only reasoning I could do is that, based on the kind of herbivores you see in Kayenta, you see more Thyreophorans ( or Ornithischians, if you want to see it that way ) than Prosauropods, which is implying that whatever vegetation or niches available, Thyreophorans were doing it better than Sarahsaurus, or at least, there was more niches available for animals like Scelidosaurus & Scutellosaurus, but animals like Sarahsaurus don't tend to really fit on those niches, and so they stay in a very special corner of their own. But being real? I think that itself is maybe a little too speculative? There wouldn't be any ways to narrow the potential appearance of the animal, and even then it's kinda like... Maybe a bit too fantastical?

So, it probably would've another Prosauropod... Maybe call it Prosauropod number 56

[burnt spade]

I think what you said is true

Wait did yiu say... fantastic?

[zenith rose]

This all sounds viable to me! And a larger Thyreophoran would be so cool to imagine. I could see it working out… but as you and gbones stated, the lack of constant vegetation might just be an issue if migration wasn’t plausible. Another prosauropod sounds about right too.

[little mauve]

When I say big desert I mean a reeaally big desert, migration likely wasn't an option. The distances are too vast. Hoodoos are reasonable imo

[zenith rose]

Thank you! That rules out a lot of my potential theories then

[full lagoon]

I'm sure they were atleast a bit stronger than given credit for tbh, especially as we have been way off about similar things before.

[little mauve]

Now the Eubrontes trackmaker in Connecticut, if it is indeed a species of Dilophosaurus or a close relative, did overlap with some big prosauropods. Probably a much more lush environment with consistent relatively tall vegetation suitable for a browser

[ancient crystal]

Oh wow, a genuine discussion in this channel. Incredible.

[zenith rose]

This is also something to think about. I hope in the future it’s determined what species it may be (?) and for now I may infer it to be Dilophosaurus for paleoart reasons, until it is 100% ruled out, or not, — speculation could be had!

[lost moon]

hasn’t paleorex been using ai for a while now or is this something new?

[compact leaf]

they’ve been making the moving edits for a while but made a post saying it isn’t ai iirc (I could be wrong and they said their regular art isn’t ai)

[little mauve]

Body fossils are incredibly rare in the Connecticut Valley but it's still possible we'll get a better ID someday. Dilophosaur grade neotheropods were basically doing their thing throughout Pangea at the time

[zenith rose]

That’s such a beautiful thing to know. Thank you

[hardy sentinel]

No head feathers terror bird > head feathered terror bird

[zealous ravine]

From what I understand its a river oasis in a desert basically, but I haven't looked into it in a while

[plush fossil]

Does he not photoshop(?) the images then use his own ai he built to make them move?

If what the image says is true that would really suck cuz I loved his stuff : (

[fierce quarry]

Is there any basis on why Concavenator is a semi-aquatic in the game ? I thought I heard something about that somewhere

[coral forge]

Shark fin = aquatic + needs unique kit

[static widget]

Ok but vultures

[ancient crystal]

How many times does the concavenator question get asked per month do you think?

[steep atlas]

No real basis

[sudden wind]

There are no evidences for such lifestyle

[steep atlas]

Just a regular land theropod

[fierce quarry]

I see, thanks for the answer !

[hollow vigil]

so why do we have that??

erm, path of titans, its seems you're not following the concept that concavenator is a terrestrial animal 🤓

[ancient crystal]

^

[coral forge]

imagine phorusrhacids with bald heads as an adaptation for plunging into corpses like vultures

[fierce quarry]

That would be cool

[vast sedge]

Hey paleonerds what are the most reliable differences between troodontids and dromeosaurids?
Troodontids seem to be generally slimmer with larger eyes and smaller sickle claws but there's also dromeosaurids like buitreraptor that I'd assume were troodontids.

what makes him dromaeosauridae??

[cloud dagger]

Isn’t buitreraptor unenlagiine

[steep atlas]

Troodontids have quite unique teeth with large denticles. Pretty reliable way to distinguish them

[vast sedge]

which is part of dromaeosauridae is it not?

[steep atlas]

Troodontids also have proportionally longer metatarsals and the metatarsals have a shape known as the "arctometatarsus" which I think dromaeosaurids lack. Troodontids have larger more forward facing eyes and some have asymmetrical ears like owls.

[steep atlas]

Recently they were placed as their own family within Avialae, so a bit closer to birds than to Dromaeosaurids or Troodontids

[vast sedge]

ohhh okay ty

[steep atlas]

Oh nvm it's outside of Avialae but a few steps closer to Avialae than the other guys

[ashen wedge]

Wait, did I miss something on Troodontids?

[lavish frigate]

https://youtu.be/u3TJYiYB6nk?si=dyWMrXSoojQUtr4b

Really cool that they can make a chicken give birth to a pigeon

[steep atlas]

Nope, unenlagiids

[plush fossil]

I find all these bringing back extinct species or whatever things sorta weird, especially the 'dire wolf' one cuz like..that's not really bringing back the dire wolf is it?😭 You're just modifying the genes or whatever of a normal wolf right??
Anyways that video looks super cool

[elfin pulsar]

Yea it’s just basically a tinkered with modern day animal that now looks different

[jagged trellis]

( also doesn't look much like direwolves beyond maybe 1 pop but thats a whole ordeal)

[neat notch]

Still waiting patiently for my Ubiraja and Anurognathus tho

[ionic crescent]

The humble pug-ified pootoo

[plush fossil]

I love pootoos
They're so dumb

https://tenor.com/view/potoo-bird-calling-call-dubsurgeon-gif-22981826

[neat notch]

They are know as Urutau in my region

[neat notch]

Bro holding em like a mic

[hardy sentinel]

Dodomimus

[paper parcel]

Anurognathus found on camera>

[queen oar]

https://x.com/wa_workshop/status/1899149919249732033

Wyatt-Andrews-Workshop (@wa_workshop)

I’d like to remind everyone that the account “Paleorex” is a serial plagiarist who is now trying to cover his tracks with AI slop.

He has no place in this community.

X · Mar 10, 2025, 5:26 PM

[plush fossil]

Awh : ( his stuff was really cool this is upsetting to find out

[last adder]

That explains why they sometimes look weirder than even more speculative modern paleoart

Though this isn't art

[queen oar]

So, beyond the detail some have already added like: The Teeth. Troodontids haven't been found in South America, at least... For now ( Maybe at some point in the future... )

But another difference is that we have a little idea of Buitreraptor's skull shape, so usually Dromaeosaurs have wide craniums and then the proportions transitions into a more thinner width onto the snout. Which seems to happen with Buitreraptor, since we have remains of the frontal and nasal bones to reconstruct that. Troodontids are similar, but not really, a similar transition of width occurs, but it's not that noticeable, if anything... They have broader snouts than Dromaeosaurs

Maybe something to do with the fact they can swallow prey items whole? Maybe a more generalist diet in general? I'm not that good with them... But, usually this difference means Troodontids tend to usually have shorter snouts than Dromaeosaurs... For most times.

I guess, if you want some examples?

[neat notch]

I believe Buitreraptor had a slim shaped skull, allowing it to prey on quick game, like fish and small mammals/lizards

[queen oar]

yeah, seems about right

[tough parcel]

There's a whole paper on unenlagiine ecology due to foot and skull build

Someone else find it cause I'm a teensy bit busy but it's not hard to find

[neat notch]

Austroraptor is a very close relative of it, and I recall they had those same characteristics

[queen oar]

Hmm, listen to an idea...

Coastal Unenlagiine

[neat notch]

Seems good to me

[queen oar]

We must draw it like a Penguin

[neat notch]

I'll do it once I'm back home, trust

[queen oar]

Not if I do it first

[neat notch]

I'll do it better

[queen oar]

Bet

[neat notch]

Nah, I'm moneyless

[queen oar]

LMFAO

[little mauve]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7163733/ I believe this is what you're referring to

From the intro:

"The first analysis drew the unenlagiines close to taxa with long tibiae, as well as long and slender metatarsi. Instead, eudromaeosaurs are closer to taxa with shorter tibiae, and shorter and wider metatarsi. The second analysis showed that eudromaeosaurs and unenlagiines have similar phalangeal proportions, including the elongation of distal phalanges. However, the shorter second phalanx of the pedal digit II of eudromaeosaurs could have increased the force generated by this digit, which was the main predatory tool of the autopodium. This, together with a shorter and wider metatarsus, and a marked hinge‐like morphology of the articular surfaces of metatarsals and phalanges, possibly allowed eudromaeosaurs to exert a great gripping strength and hunt large prey. Conversely, the longer and slender subarctometatarsus, and less well‐marked hinge joints of unenlagiines possibly gave them greater cursorial capacities. Additionally, the longer second phalanx of digit II allowed unenlagiines fast movements of this digit to hunt smaller and elusive prey. Thus, the distinctive morphological evolutionary pathways of these two dromaeosaurid clades seem to have been influenced by the particular locomotor and predatory specializations that characterized each of these lineages."

[light osprey]

Coincidentally I’m back on researching pedal morphology in Dromaeosaurs in regards to Imperobator

[wind prairie]

boy why you so legs

[queen oar]

That boy ain't right

[queen oar]

Evoincarnate

[little mauve]

Interesting, find anything good?

[wind prairie]

I didn't think basilo and tylo were that big, and I thought monquirosaurus was bigger
(c'mon fossil record... there's gotta be a giant pliosaur. Please.)

[queen oar]

Foolish to believe the Fossil Record would ever give you that sorta of hint

[light osprey]

Only the obvious I suppose, proportional robustness in the pedal elements is associated with the Laurasian Dromaeosaurs, and to the extreme degree in Balaur, which maybe Imperobator falls into the degree of, at least compared to Unenlagiinae

Perhaps to add to the idea of weight bearing, which is still pretty vague in terms of an ecological paradigm, the (imo) likely 2nd ungual has not only the previously recorded reduced hypertrophied condition but also apparently a rounded ventral edge?

[balmy oyster]

Whales were just built different to marine reptiles (literally in this case)

[little mauve]

So based on that do you doubt its placement in Unenlagiinae?

[light osprey]

No, but I suspect it’s doing something very different than the rest of them

[queen oar]

what is Imperobator again?

ah, fragmented feet

[little mauve]

Very cool, I've been thinking about the Nothofagidites province in the Maastrichtian, i.e. Antarctica & Australia, and what potentially typified the ecology there

[light osprey]

With a marine deposition only known thus far there’s only so much to procure in terms of the constraining environmental factors at least in Imperobator’s case

Aside from at least by the Maastrichtian, the codified shift towards subpolar temperature and a likely accentuated humidity

[little mauve]

Absolutely, it's kind of amazing we even have that site. Going to be a long time before we get a better picture of it

[light osprey]

I feel the intuition to say that imperobator’s distinctiveness must be motivated by temperature and its influence on the environment in some way, but to what end it’s hard to say

[wind prairie]

I still refuse to believe that
mysticetes sure, but the only reason we've found no marine reptiles besides ichthyosaurs getting to a 30-60 ton range like large physeteroids is because mosasaurs barely existed for any time and... I swear there's still a giant pliosaur in the fossil record we just haven't found yet

[queen oar]

You could say that Ichthyosaurs had more resources to afford getting bigger, and had more opportunities to fit into other niches... Given the diversity we have preserved

[wind prairie]

but did the triassic ocean really have more resources than the ocean throughout all the time that short necked pliosaurs existed

[queen oar]

tbh it's the only explanation I can think of. Maybe the other way you could think around it, it's that Mosasaurs and Pliosaurs couldn't get as big or else it would affect their mobility or hydrodynamics... Which, probably was the reason? idk

[wind prairie]

surely not right? Four flippers all propelling the animal would be very efficient in pliosaurs' case, I doubt it'd be easy to get too big for that to work

[winter marsh]

maybe we will discover a life accurate WWD liopleurodon one day

[vast sedge]

ohh that's super informative actually, tysm!

[stray saddle]

People believe T Rex was slow, but in reality he ran faster than almost everyone here lol

[winter marsh]

people who believe rex was slow are the same who think they can outrun a hippo

[stray saddle]

Lol, nailed

[charred hearth]

what had the faster locomotion, dolphins or itchyosaurs?

[neat notch]

Me

[winter marsh]

depends, but my bet is on dolphins cuz they are much more hydrodynamic. Icthyosaurs mostly look like an oval with a beak and a fish tail

[neat notch]

I have 5 flippers

[neat notch]

I think the flippers added more on agility and maneuvering

[winter marsh]

true, so icthyosaurs would probably be more like weird sharks, that can go fast but its not their main perk

[neat notch]

Perky rascals

[winter marsh]

imagine stealing playstyles smh

[neat notch]

Like some sea snails?

D'arcs writing an essay

[queen oar]

I mean, the thing is more that getting big and then having 4 big flippers, means that would be causing too much drag underwater? Which is why for example, Baleen Whales are more hydrodynamic efficient by their lateral sides? Could be wrong. But something related to how their flippers would cause their hydrodynamic profile to be larger by the sides, which is why they tend to preferably develop smaller dorsal fins or " humps ", and the thing is that getting big like that does not fit either Pliosaurs or Mosasaurs... I'm not good with them so i'm just guessing... But, from what I understand, some of them are likely very generalists, some of them can be more specialized, uhh... Taking the opportunity! To any other Globidens fan in the chat! HELL YEAH BROTHE-

But from what I understand their deal is to be more hydrodynamic efficient anteriorly and posteriorly... Like, from what some friends told me... Some researchers even discuss about how more derived Mosasaurs were changing how they moved underwater, and even evidence of potential dorsal fins? For Pliosaurs... I'll be honest chief, i'm stupid with them, I don't know anything!

[neat notch]

"He may be out of line, but he's right" ahh moment

[wind prairie]

that is fair but tbh I'm not totally sold on the "evidence" for derived mosasaurs having dorsal fins

[tranquil relic]

Could some herbivorous dinosaurs have been omnivores, and are we misreading their diets based on tooth shape alone?

[compact leaf]

also an oval with fins (ichthyosaurs actually have a really hydrodynamic build)

[queen oar]

It is difficult to believe it. But, I think it has more to do with how the idea of the potential itself is sold to people... Realistically, Sharks have it, majority of the Odontocetis have it... Uh... Maybe other predatory fishes? I'm sorry for the fish people but I don't know a lot about them... Babelichthys is my favorite though

But for example, just make this question: What they have in common with Mosasaurs?

All of their respective evolutions focused on getting more efficient hydrodynamic profiles from the anterior & posterior angle.So it makes sense that... Either sooner ( or later ), they would've begun to share the same convergent traits.

[stiff osprey]

There really is zero evidence for a dorsal fin in any mosasaur, the oddly shaped vertebrae that allegedly indicate a fin in Megapterygius are also found in finless porpoises

Plesiosaurs also didn't have any aside from the small tain fin, and they were doing fine hydrodynamically, so the relatively larger vertical tail fins of mosasaurs were probably good enough to stabilize them

[queen oar]

Probably ( Psst! I would put dorsal fins anyways! )

[stiff osprey]

This will sound cliche for this chat but herbivory is a spectrum, we can be sure that herbivorous dinosaurs ate primarily plants, but we can't dismiss that they ate some meat here and there

They were not likely to be active predators, though

[winter marsh]

that oval isnt shaped like a barrel tho, that is a flat oval

[compact leaf]

tuna are pretty round from the front similar to a lot of the not giant ichthyosaurs, there’s an entire paper on locomotion that compares the two but it’s paywalled ;-;

[sudden wind]

Depends on the specie you're looking at but if I had to guess both fastest swimmer in both respective clades probably achieved similar speeds (being in the +50kmh).

[tranquil relic]

u can kinda see here it is chonk

[sudden wind]

If you want I can try to get access to it. If so, share the DOI

(though I should educate myself a lot of those animals because gosh they are so cool and are my favs)

[winter marsh]

icthyosaurs are dead, dolphins arent, so the ladder is clearly superior

[sudden wind]

Truth nuke

[charred hearth]

im gonna assume large itchyosaurs outspeed large baleen whales?

[queen oar]

yeah

[stiff osprey]

blue and fin whales are incredibly fast i don't think an ichthyosaur would be faster than that

[sudden wind]

Modern large baleen whales are built so they're probably quite faster but large ichthyosaurs were also probably fast and efficient swimmers (Guatarra et al. 2019)

Misinterpreted my bad

[tranquil relic]

just a side note small ichthyosaurs like Stenopterygius may have been faster sprinters. just like smaller dolphins like the spinner dolphin (1.5–2 m) are extremely agile and fast.larger ones like Shonisaurus were likely slower but built for long-distance cruising.just like larger species like the orca (up to 9 m) are slower to accelerate but can cruise efficiently at high speeds.

[queen oar]

Do you guys want an interesting, but fitting, but totally speculative topic?

Ichthyosaur hybrids

[wind prairie]

I know it's a meme but I'm still not convinced pachycephalosaurs were strict herbivores in a cow or horse sense. Their teeth were confused with those of north american troodontids which while herbivorous leaning were definitely still omnivores
that doesn't mean pachycephalosaurs were dropping off of cliffs like kratos to bash giant prey in the head to kill them and let them feed though, is what people gotta understand

[sudden wind]

I mean, there are literature treating such topics so you can always read some on the occasion.

[stiff osprey]

I think pachycephalosaurs being opportunistic scavengers or eating the occasional small vertebrate or bug is fine

As long as they're not chasing down other dinosaurs to eat them it's not implausible

[wind prairie]

this

[queen oar]

Tbh, what if the premaxillary teeth are an alternative to defense? In case the animal doesn't want to risk damage to it's dome?

" How? ", I mean... Technically it's easier to imagine Pachycephalosaurs dealing with any reasonable threat with it's dome ( probably not the 6-9 ton Theropods, the only alternative there is RUNNING ), but what if it misses the aggressor and hits something else? That can offer a certain risk to the dome, and depending on what it hits disable the efficiency of the individual from headbutting

Not to say the teeth can't imply something about it's diet... Just trying to see it from a different angle

[tranquil relic]

some say t rex could not run but only walk at about 10 mph

it apparently walked down its prey until it was tired and then killed them

[stiff osprey]

10mph is a misreading, 17 would be more accurate

which is fast enough to catch an edmontosaurus or triceratops

[tranquil relic]

what would be some positives of bringing dinosaurs back to life

[queen oar]

None. Because every negative would outweight any possible positive...

You would essentially create the impression that species can be brought back regardless of human action, and then be responsible for the abolishment of any conservation effort/program, as well the extinction of any species associated.

[tranquil relic]

Thats what i was thinking and also the fact that if they escape 💀

Colossal biosciences are and have plans of bringing back all these creatures but its impossible to bring dinosaurs back right

[last adder]

They'd probably just be killed realistically, especially since they wouldn't have a high population to start with, but it depends on how inconspicuous they'd be/if they were a species that was small and reproduced quickly.

[last adder]

It's truthfully impossible to bring back any extinct species, any result would just be some sort of approximation.

Once a species goes extinct there's really no getting them back as they were.

[queen oar]

Me when:

Colossal says Dire wolves

Looks inside

Game Of Thrones Wolves

[last adder]

They didn't really even try to make an approximation, they are just modified wolves with a fancy title to bring in funding.

[queen oar]

I mean, yeah, it's kinda why i said Game of Thrones wolves, since they want it to appeal to the general public, so what they do? Of course they are going to modify wolves to look like the Game of Thrones one

Quite frankly... I've seen people defend this in many ways, and usually focusing around the matter of " Funding ", but honestly, more people should question the ethics of Colossal, because that's some evil shi- @#$

[last adder]

If we're not excluding avian dinosaurs (birds) that went extinct due to human activity, quite a lot- but they'd need their habitat to be restored to survive or fill an ecological role.

I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant, though.

[charred hearth]

if im correct, rex outsped all of its prey in hell creek right?

[last adder]

Not enough people consider restoring habitat first to try and rewild or re create lost ecosystems/repair existing ones with artificial species, such as what colossal has been apparently trying to do.

It's always the big names that get focus, when in reality nothing would be accomplished without ensuring a stable base, which would be by far the biggest challenge if not impossible.

[little mauve]

I could see that. Overall robustness but lacking the killing claw is an intriguing combo no doubt. Adaptations towards herbivory? 🤷‍♂️

[queen oar]

The reason they don't do, it's because people are likely settled into those lost habitats, and if you propose it, they are going to burst into rage " HOW DARE YOU! YOU ARE TELLING ME TO ABANDON MY HOUSE?!! "

[balmy oyster]

Finally someone else calls out the “funding” argument! I feel like you would have better chances of public appeal and “funding” if you tried to make the things at least resemble basal species like jackals. Now people are skeptical of you because it just seems like you’re doing a Jurassic world instead.

[last adder]

That and the fact many people don't actually care or understand anything about ecological stability, yeah.

[little mauve]

Funding? They're a private company, it's literally revenue. It's not like they're a university lab or non profit. The dire wolves and everything else, the dodos, are marketing for a private business

[last adder]

I used the term "funding" because that's how other people have described it to me, I entirely agree with your perspective.

[wind prairie]

like idk I could totally see a pachycephalosaur going after an unguarded nest. Joschua Knuppe has a good portrayal of small marginocephalians that I like (I imagine leptoceratopsids being kinda similar but idk) They're herbivores but if you put a little meat in front of them they'll go for it

[tough parcel]

"The way I see it is that. Its a company, is never gonna be flawless, such things dont exist. They are doing actual research for sure. That the marketing of it is weird and disingenuous? Yes. That people over react sometimes about it? Yes. That there are people on both sides of the ring benefiting from misinformation? Most definitely. I do keep an eye on their projects out of curiosity, but as with any research, always wait for proper results to better judge its outcome. Too often people see science as a flawless monolith, which has and will never be the case. Any piece of research should always be taken with a pinch of salt, unless its got extremely undeniable hard proof of its intent. Many are the people who go hype recent discoveries without properly reading said research to just be debunked in a couple of months."
Cause I feel like this Colossal issue is being seen in too much black and white

[last adder]

Nothing is ever just black and white, but that doesn't change how some people will think of it regardless.

[tough parcel]

I mean…that’s what I said

[little mauve]

It's another discussion entirely not worth having here but the ongoing trend of privatization of science and conservation is fraught to say the least. I understand people's criticisms mostly on those grounds. But not really paleo related so I'll drop it

[queen oar]

I'd say eat the rich

[frosty anvil]

Unrelated tangent to everything going on, but just a mini side tangent I wanted to go on briefly. I dont talk about paleontology much but thats really only because im a very casual enthusiast and dont really have much to contribute to a convo 80% of the time other than "i like this thing about this animal"

just something ive been noticing in general is that people can have pretty extensive discussions about long dead remains and im just like "idk man i think this animal looks cool"

[light osprey]

Certainly a more stable and efficient locomotory setup, with the arctometatarsal conditions still present as well.

[queen oar]

I'd say it depends on how passionate one is about the topic. If you feel like passionate about it, you are likely to spend a lot of time onto it, and be informed onto it... But realistically anyone can contribute to a conversation, regardless of how much informed they are.

[little mauve]

Wikipedia mentions teeth and some cranial elements but I can't access the source, you find anything there?

[bright veldt]

Considering they've actively tried to censor scientists refuting their claims and talked down to actual conservation efforts, they deserve no leeway.

[light osprey]

Undescribed unfortunately, the existence of the material is all that’s known as of late

[little mauve]

Thanks!

[compact leaf]

where have they done this? not refuting you just haven’t seen it personally so I want to know

[bright veldt]

I'll DM the attacking scientists bit. For the talking down to conservation stuff, the CEO of Colossal outright stated that their red wolves are "more pure red wolf" than the literal Red Wolf Recovery Program.

[ionic crescent]

I think of the opposite, bigger species recurring to egg/crustaceans eating or carrion chewing, cause small ones would likely be able to feed easily on things due to smaller sizes (not saying they wouldn't, more like bigger ones would require more of certain nutrients which small ones could already supply with their main diets)

This is ironically some trait to be observed in most aves, specially fowls (waterfowls and screamers), the bigger they are, the easier it is for em to feed on other things on the menu

Obv this is just my opinion

But in general I think of whole marginocephalians as a good big boars, if it exists, it's food lol

[queen oar]

I think they are neat.

[queen oar]

Does anyone have in their bookmarks/folder/or whatever you guys use to save publications you've read, a paper in-depth, or that at least, discusses about the appearance and placement of the feathers on Dromeosaurs' tails?

[wind prairie]

oh then that's fair
but idk it's more the general body shape of pachycephalosaurs that lends itself more to very very light carnivory

[charred hearth]

whats the 3 oldest playables in PoT

i know rhamp is first, but whos second and third?

[compact leaf]

after rhamph it’s the morrison group kent and mira

[charred hearth]

we really need either middle jurassic or triassic playables...

[compact leaf]

oh wait I forgot metri, that would be next

[charred hearth]

so it goes
rhamp
metri
Morrison gang + mira?

[compact leaf]

I forgot kent too, I’m discovering I don’t actually know the roster as well as I thought

[charred hearth]

damn, how early was kent compared to the morrison gang?

the 3 youngest would be

1 - meglania
2 - pachy
3 - tyrannosaurus

tyrannosaurus has been found in as early of beds as like, 73 mya right?

[ancient crystal]

Eurhino is first tmk

[charred hearth]

i deadass forgot eurhino existed

brachi is way to big for the base roster

no, zby blast.

turisaurus topysytervy

[paper parcel]

Yes, its big, thats why it needs to be in the roster.

https://news.okstate.edu/articles/health-sciences/2019/new-trex-study.html

We are all doomed

[thorn grove]

C. lentus would probably be the perfect large Sauropod for the base roster

[paper parcel]

I know the perfect sauropods, amphicoelias, diplodocus, and shunosaurus

[thorn grove]

as cool as Amphicoelias/Maraapunisaurus is, I really don't think it would work well in game at all, especially as it trends more towards a pvp focus

Diplo and Shuni would be fine though

[paper parcel]

nah we need argentinosaurus and amphicoelias too, maybe brachiosaurus too

[stiff osprey]

maraapuni playable would either be nerfed beyond belief or just be an instant server wipe whenever someone becomes it

[thorn grove]

we need the 6000 combat weight maraapuni

[paper parcel]

nah we need a 12k or 9k combat weight sauropod, trexes stinky

argentinosaurus would be cool too to have in base game.

Big sauropods are good though

[thorn grove]

I feel like the problem is that in any game that has large Hadrosaurs (I.E. Bars) capable of fighting apex Theropods, it's kind of impossible to introduce a massive Sauropod like that without it either being insanely overpowered or just feeling artificially nerfed for no reason

[paper parcel]

edmontosaurus too

Argentinosaurus oneshots lame trex duo with stomps and physics.

[thorn grove]

Yea, I was referring to how Hadrosaurs and Sauropods both rely on simply throwing their weight around to inflict damage (ergo a massive Sauropod should be vastly more powerful than something like Barsboldia)

tbf, I do feel a Hadrosaur not being graviportal does make it a bit better at throwing its weight around, but that's still a relatively marginal advantage compared with nearly an order of magnitude weight differential

[paper parcel]

diplodocids, or whip tailed sauropods like apatosaurus or diplodocus, or barosaurus, use their whiptails to inflict severe damage and bleeding.

[thorn grove]

I mean that's kind of still throwing the weight of their tail around but I don't want to waste time on semantics

[paper parcel]

Imagine most hadrosaurs would just step on theropods till they died in herds, kind of what they do.

[thorn grove]

depends on the size ratio but in most cases Hadrosaurs probably just ran away

[paper parcel]

Megapacks will be the death of this game.

[neat notch]

https://youtu.be/n7JJLFp6emE?si=T4DYCsw8-Wjvijg3

Love it when people make paleo-accurate electrodomestic devices

A way to circumvent this issue is making megasauropods op, like they were irl, but also making more sauropod-hunting megatheropods like Mapusaurus and Giganotosaurus

[paper parcel]

Well, giga is a modded dino, the pt one is my favorite, and carch pretty much is like mapusaurus

[neat notch]

Also why people think Nigersaurus is controversial just because of the funni letter? Niger (the country) and the shall-not-be-spoken word are very phonetically different

[neat notch]

I was talking abt a theoretical game environment, but sure

[paper parcel]

Sorry for the skull react but I just laugh every time I hear its name because of all the dumb memes

[neat notch]

I'm working on a game of mine that works with that concept

[hardy sentinel]

Colossal sauropods should only get 5 seconds worth of growth per quest if they're added

[neat notch]

I plan to add ALL fauna and flora of the Cretaceous period, diversifying between ai and playables
Ye, a considerable size of the fauna list will be composed of smol sauros, no way it would be just beeg beefy column lizards
~by Thalos, you type quick, huh?~

[hardy sentinel]

Sauropods are pretty hard to add to games and work

Small sauropods are pretty defenseless against popular theropods that are put in most games, and mega sauropods are unkillable without mega packs and starvation

[hardy sentinel]

I think it would be easier to tackle if it was just north America because most dinosaur species discovered are Cretaceous age so you'd have to add hundreds of genera

North America still has some pretty good sauropods of all sizes all over the Cretaceous

[neat notch]

A healthy amount of speculative adaptations will be included to fight off big predators

[hardy sentinel]

So it has the same issue as big sauropods, if the sauropods in general are just hard to kill the game would just be a ton of sauropods with starving carnivores

[neat notch]

I am aware of the hustle, still I'll not deviate from the path proposed by myself
And it'll be more like fair and balanced, rather than pushing the scales to a side from other

[hardy sentinel]

Amarga is one of the only small sauropods that works in the game because they made it a porcupine AoE/knockback brawler

Any other run of the mill sauropod of its size would suffer

I'm not saying small sauropods in general are defenseless persay, I'm just saying that a small sauropod put up again a megatheropod would be cooked

[neat notch]

And that's why being in a group is so important

[hardy sentinel]

Anyways if you wanna add a mechanic a small sauropod could use as a defense: The sunfish method. It's so inedible it's not worth eating

[neat notch]

That's a good idea, imma steal

[hardy sentinel]

But would people wanna play the small defenseless sauropod to get in groups big enough?

Also it's a trend with basically all dinosaur games that they end up turning into pvp games so why would they play a weak playable that can't fight back on it's own? It would probably turn into the equal of the isle's Dryo or PoT's Campto

Ngl I think big, multi formation rosters are self destructive

A hell creek based game would work because you can center your roster easier around evading a few threats

Multi formation rosters are basically just Florida

Multiple species that cannot co exist with each other and eventually one just comes out on top and destroys everything

I think the only case a multi formation roster would work if it's something like Hell Creek + some other late Cretaceous Canadian formations

[last adder]

^^^

[neat notch]

Ok guys I cannot follow the conversation in a fluid manner, y'all text too fast for me lol

[paper parcel]

Triassic Game would be peak

[neat notch]

Cool, let me know when it's done so I can do it better

[stiff osprey]

the rex model looked weird but this was peak

[ashen wedge]

Don’t remember them from the series, but this is impressive for the late 90s

[outer tusk]

I WISH we had this level of detail back in the 90s

[compact leaf]

those are from the 2025 walking with

[coral forge]

is the order of the numbers weird I cant tell

[static widget]

Jokes on you spitting on people in the isle is so fun+ embarrassingly juking out Carnos and junk

[coral forge]

23 and mabye 15 feel a little hard to read

[ashen wedge]

Wait there was one in 2025? Was it good as original or is it crap?

[compact leaf]

oh it was crap, wwd in name only

[coral forge]

am I the only one who knew it would be crap just from the first teaser

[compact leaf]

I think a lot of people had the idea at that point we just held out hope

[ashen wedge]

Dam….. it should have been named something else and probably would have gotten some better views….. not saying it doesn’t deserve criticism, as I believe everything deserves some form of criticism, but when you compare yourself to something beloved, it does make your show/movie seem worse in comparison to the original beloved material, and probably would have stand on its own two feet if it had a different name and would have been criticized less harshly

[compact leaf]

I still think it would’ve gotten pretty harsh treatment honestly, it was pretty lackluster even compared to older non wwd documentaries

[ashen wedge]

Oh…. It was that bad? This is worse than imagined, I’ll check out the trailer

Just saw the trailer

I will give it this, it does have good models of the dinosaurs but the CGI budget looks like that of the original but instead of using it sparingly and no practical effects (since I believe the best outcome for visual effects is a mixture of practical and visual effects in post, and not just one way or the other), but the dinosaur CGI looks like a crap show

Wait…. There is a human focus in Walking With Dinosaurs (2025)?! What did universe did I walk into?

[coral forge]

what? Ik the animals are anthropomorphised but I didnt know there were humans

[ashen wedge]

Yeah, not to do anything against the paleontologists in it, but the film makers really made them look amateurish for paleontologists…..

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/u3TJYiYB6nk?si=hoawVIHuiCPJJqU1

AI

[fierce quarry]

Why try to "resurrect" prehistoric animals, when you can use that to save current ones ?

[tough parcel]

(They are saving extant animals)

[ashen wedge]

I say we bring back a penguin and recolor it, and call it a dodo since that’s what they basically did with the direwolves

[balmy oyster]

Bighead turkey

[river plinth]

Felt

[tough parcel]

https://newsexaminer.net/how-colossals-research-helped-prevent-fatal-eehv-progression-in-two-baby-elephants/

Colossal has never ever done anything good ever, they're only evil AI scammers...

[lavish frigate]

Erm, why aren’t they devoting literally all their time and resources to literally only doing this though instead of what they’re passionate about and have been working towards for years?! Boom! Colossal evil and bad

[hallow spear]

@tough parcel hi

[tough parcel]

Hi

[hallow spear]

WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO ME STOP IT

[tough parcel]

I'm deleting my Toujiangosaurus size chart

[compact leaf]

Mauritius is in ecological collapse so a dodo or dodo analogue does actually have benefits in this case

[green helm]

hi

[paper parcel]

If they are able to one day, they should bring back every therapsid from the permian, for one permian animals are smaller then modern ones and not overly large or dissimilar from modern ones

[drifting condor]

Was camptosaurus bipedal?

[thorn grove]

yup

[drifting condor]

Ok

[hazy basalt]

I suspect the weird stiff theropod lips were inspired by this blog post by Andrea Cau in 2023 who says the foramina on Tyrannosaurus didn't resemble lizards or crocodiles but instead turtles the most. Therefore he speculates Tyrannosaurus would've had a sharp beak like structures to protect the teeth...I'm not convinced at all but it's a interesting read.
https://theropoda.blogspot.com/2023/07/all-hail-to-terrifying-face-of-turtle.html

[runic heart]

I believe it has to do with unreleased research

[tough parcel]

You know what we say about unreleased research?

Who cares!

[runic heart]

I do. I care. All I can do is wait though.

[astral spindle]

(Norther White Rhino)

Why are we resurrecting bird which behaves like a Capybara which lays a single egg and just leaves it?

[tough parcel]

But why, you don't have access to it nor should you

It's the same level as going "Trust me bro" except there might be a sliver of truth to it but no-one can corroborate it so it loops back to "Just trust me frfr"

[astral spindle]

The thing is gonna die itself........ . ... and some countries ahum ahum *China, will probably excessively breed them.

[runic heart]

It’s less of a “trust me bro” and more of a “yeah it might be out there, but we’ll have to wait a bit”.

[balmy oyster]

We are so back

[tough parcel]

So it's a trust me bro because you shouldn't be sharing it nor should you be proving it

It's simply assuming that whatever this person is saying is actually in the works

[balmy oyster]

It’ll be exciting discussing it when my grandchildren have their own children!

[hallow spear]

NOOOO

[runic heart]

Wait, so is this about spreading unreleased research, or about believing there is unreleased research?

And I’m confused by why you’re so upset about this. We both enjoy prehistory, so why can’t we enjoy talking about it.

[tough parcel]

Both, they're not exclusive and cannot be made exclusive from each other. If you're spreading embargoed information, you're perpetuating unreleased information with 0 backing

As to why I'm on your case, it's because professionals have standards. Imagine you're working on publishing something you've worked on for months, maybe years, and some kid on the Internet leaks 90% of it for the clout

https://www.instagram.com/paulserenoofficial/live/?broadcast_id=18393541597193677

Paul Sereno livestream of his lab, might have something new

[runic heart]

I suppose this does make sense. I’m just very eager to know more. I’m one of those guys who believes more paleo art and reconstructions should be based more on direct info and less speculative.

[runic heart]

I heard about this, and I’ll definitely be checking it out.

[tough parcel]

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3536

[fierce quarry]

Very cool !

[runic heart]

Sick

[green helm]

guys do you think bird cleaning deinosuchus teeth is accurate

[compact leaf]

edmonto getting weird with it again is a pleasant surprise

[runic heart]

Not unlikely

[sudden wind]

Birds don't clean crocodile teeth

[outer tusk]

I used to believe it from Wonder Pets, I wish it was true...

[green helm]

i wish it was a thing

[balmy oyster]

Don’t they pick at dead skin & flesh bits from previous prey? Or is even that also a lie

[stiff osprey]

Some greek philosopher said they did 2000 years ago and people just took that as fact. Even the images you see of it are photoshopped

[green helm]

now i can see it

[stiff osprey]

here is the same croc but with 2 more birds randomly photoshopped in

[green helm]

eh whatever atleast deinosuchus would carry its children to the water with its mouth

[balmy oyster]

assuming it can even walk around in the first place

[undone rapids]

It would carry everything in its mouth, not like it had an option

[green helm]

it has legs mate

[stiff osprey]

regardless of the high walk it would still crawl around on land

[balmy oyster]

Whales have legs….

[green helm]

yeah for saving up energy

[green helm]

oh cmon deinosuchus legs was not that SMALL

tsk tsk tsk

[runic heart]

So what do they actually do inside crocs mouths.

[stiff osprey]

nothing, they don't go there. they're called crocodile birds because they make nests near croc nests

[sudden wind]

A study posted like today or yesterday has looked to the morphoanatomy of american alligator and Deinosuchus legs and concluded that Deinosuchus couldn't sustain high walking after a certain body size. You already see such limits affecting modern crocodile species such as salties, gharials and even black caimans (though black caimans and gharials have very puny legs).

[green helm]

gharial:D

[stiff osprey]

good dad

[runic heart]

So what could this mean for Sarco and puru? That they had larger legs, or they weren’t as big as we thought?

[green helm]

like it did to lolong?

cause then it dosent really feel like a debunk of it

[paper parcel]

Tbh if you added the triassic animals into a modern day ecosystem, not much would change, only problem would be fasolosuchus but alot of the creatures are around the same size of modern ones

[sudden wind]

Puru has robust legs and 3 sacral vertebrae, which helped it to high walk even at large sizes.

For Sarcosuchus idk the post cranial isn't studied. A shame that our Sarco specimen here (MNHN) just sits at the gallery lmao.

[green helm]

thinking about that deinosuchus would be the only weird one then if it couldnt high walk

[runic heart]

So max size for puru could still be 33ft, while deino was bumped down to 26?

[sudden wind]

I ain't doing a SEP master (Systematic, Evolution and Paleontology) so hell nah

[green helm]

does this mean deinosuchus is the only large crocodilian that cant high walk meaning its a fodder among the other ones

[sudden wind]

I'll let that to someone else or suggest some friends interested in croc paleo to do a thesis about the locomotry capacities of Pholidosaurs. I think someone at the MNHN is indeed interested in crocs (they worked on Dyrosaurs and Thalattosuchians).

[balmy oyster]

What evolving a bobblehead does to someone

[green helm]

i find it weird why it turned out that way tho i dont think any other crocodilian was like that

[undone rapids]

Deino is the only big croc in that study, so idk

[green helm]

do you think its debatable if it still could high walk

[undone rapids]

Considering very big crocs alive don't, yeah deino was probably similar with what the study says

[green helm]

50/50 eh?

[undone rapids]

I mean that it probably wasn't walking around. When it made the transition from walking to crawling idk

[green helm]

can i possible think it still would be able to high walk (assuming other crocodilians didnt have any unpossiblty of not being able to high walk for now)

aside from going to a beach or anything where the sun is at

[undone rapids]

Doesn't seem like it.

[green helm]

either way im sticking with the deinosuchus being able to high walk for short time

well we got riograndensis (dont know if it just another hatcheri tho) and rugosus

[stiff osprey]

the paper suggests younger individuals or smaller species might be able to high walk

[green helm]

someone said that black caimans start crawling at adulthood age right

[sudden wind]

Well, the only sexual dimorphism between male and female crocodylians (which Deino is not but it isn't important here) that I know of is that males are larger than females.

[stiff osprey]

we don't know but it is highly likely female deinosuchus were smaller than the males (the 9+ meter 4+ tonners are probably males)

females would also be the ones with the greater need to move on land, since. yknow. egg

[green helm]

could i say my opinion about the weight of this?

[sudden wind]

Random updated his skeletal.

[green helm]

what is it now?

[stiff osprey]

5.4 tonnes for the largest specimen (which is dubious), 4.7 tonnes for the one shown in this image

[green helm]

do you think the cm is teen to subadult possibly

[stiff osprey]

no, they are like 50 years old

[sudden wind]

Was about to say "isn't it like 45 years old ?"

[stiff osprey]

it could grow a little bit more if it lived to say, 100, but probably not more than 2-3 feet

[green helm]

because of the osteoderms?

[stiff osprey]

seems so yes
here's the paper
https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1038/18343

[green helm]

i have trust issues on links but okey

[runic heart]

So the max size is 9.7m?

Or has it been reduced already.

[green helm]

most likely gonna get smaller

Since its potential mostly won’t be over 6 tons

[neat notch]

Art channel. Better safe than sorry

[runic heart]

Art channel, unless it’s art being used to describe a scientific concept of sorts. I suppose that’s fine.

[coral forge]

is deino just the pseudosuchian eotriceratops now in that we used to think it was the largest of its kind but it turned out to just be a bobblehead but people will still believe that its over 10 tons until the end of time

[stiff osprey]

i haven't actually seen much pushback to it being bobbleheaded after the scans came out
but maybe that's just because fadeno hasn't released his newest 15t version yet

[tough parcel]

Huh

[stiff osprey]

well he updated his deino just 2 months ago

[tough parcel]

Was it really 2 months ago? I thought it was more...

[stiff osprey]

maybe it was more than that i don't understand the concept of time. but it was less than 6 months

[balmy oyster]

Which species (assuming notabilis)

[fluid inlet]

I like the new Torvosaurus look , never knew Torvosaurus previous reconstruction was just based off nothing really lol

[balmy oyster]

Is there a new reconstruction? Haven’t seen anything about that

[fluid inlet]

Not really that new https://x.com/tm9380/status/1980651532166341107?s=46 I more mean current look

Taylor McCoy 🦖 (@TM9380)

Torvosaurus: before and after…

X · Oct 21, 2025, 3:04 PM

[outer tusk]

chat who's the most well versed with carnosaurs?

[jagged trellis]

not me

[runic heart]

I mean, I like carnosaurs.

[outer tusk]

it's about neovenatoridae but I need someone who's good at it

[runic heart]

Pretty sure neovenatoridae doesn’t exist anymore

I mean, neovenatoridae included stuff like neovenator, deltadromeus, and chilantaisaurus. Neovenator is a basal carch, deltadromeus is a probable noasaurid, and chilantaisaurus is uh…. Yeah.

[undone rapids]

It was a thing when megaraptors were allos along with things like siats and chlantai yeah

[runic heart]

Siats is probably a carch, not much else it could be given where it lived. Chilantaisaurus…. I wonder if it’s a spinosaurid. Is that even a possibility?

[undone rapids]

Doubt it, Probably some type of allosaur

[runic heart]

Isn’t that just called a wastebasket taxon?

Yeah. Troodon is a wastebasket taxon as well.

[fossil ingot]

Sone Decently Big Crocs like American Gators ans Niles can still High Walk decently even when Adult
And Puru has Adaptations for it to Possibly High Walk despite its size

[runic heart]

So a carch then.

[undone rapids]

Could be some basal surving allosaur lineage

[runic heart]

That claw kinda does. Plus, we do already spinosaurids lived in Asia.

[runic heart]

That would be awesome, but I’m not going to get my hopes up. Probably a carch if anything.

[undone rapids]

What if.... metris survived?

[runic heart]

That thought crossed my mind too…

[paper parcel]

I love Diictodon

[undone rapids]

Cretaceous asia is pretty weird tbh. In early cret we see yutyrannus and sinotyrannus living with some type of small carnosaur. Then some time later chilantai shows up... hope we find more from these eras

[runic heart]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-gif-1878760417600646737

[undone rapids]

Cuz theres a chance that there were ecosystems where long armed large tyrannosauroids and allosaurs living together.... That'd be really cool. Esp if spinos were around as well.

[runic heart]

Is allosauridae even a thing, or is it always just allosaurus?

[charred hearth]

didnt mean to reply to you, sorry

including flight and swim speed, who would be the top 3 fastest creatures In POT? ( including critters )

[hardy sentinel]

So apparently Edmontosaurus has a sail now

https://youtube.com/shorts/gDYABSTUjxA?si=fV8wcot7Hn7zjOuS

[undone rapids]

Its just allosaurus and used to be saurophaganax. Sometimes asfaltrovenator shows up there but usually its just allo

[fluid inlet]

lol what

[undone rapids]

Yeah, maybe 4 if europus

[fluid inlet]

Holy peak

[runic heart]

That’d be neat.

Allosaurus anax now. It really was all allosaurus. There’s also whatever Epanterias is, probably another allosaurus.

I do believe in larger species of allosaurus, like Anax. Epanterias though probably just falls into that Anax category.

Now, if all allosaurids are just allosaurus, I wonder if we could classify it as a basal carch..

[winter marsh]

wtf is this stance

[ancient crystal]

The show off as much of the animal as possible in as dynamic of a pose as possible stance

[winter marsh]

couldve made it a side view? That just looks like ed is flashing the dead guy in the background

[runic heart]

So then allosaurus is literally just…. Allosaurus. There is no higher classification other than whatever came before it.

[ancient crystal]

The dead guy is a different edmontosaurus mummy

[runic heart]

Allosaurus and Acrocanthosaurus have similar looking skulls if you ask me, any case to be made there?

[undone rapids]

There are jurrassic carchs other than veteru

Lusovenator is an example, idk much about veter, but I'd imagine its fragmentary features are closer to those of luso and other carchs than allo itself

[fluid inlet]

There will be no Edmontosaurus hate bud

Anyone who hating on Edmontosaurus getting dropped

[sullen cairn]

I’m like 95% sure veterupristisaurus being united with carchs has nothing to do with neural spine height

[undone rapids]

From the wiki : It is diagnosed by a spinoprezygapophyseal lamina in the middle caudal vertebrae extending anteriorly to the midwidth of the base of the prezygapophysis and being flanked laterally by a short, parallel lamina extending from the lateral margin of the prezygapophysis posteriorly. Thus, Rauhut considered a sister-group relationship between Veterupristisaurus and Acrocanthosaurus within the Carcharodontosauridae.[1] In 2025, the study that described Tameryraptor, which had Rauhut as a co-author, noted its only diagnostic character was shared with Lusovenator, making the validity of Veterupristisaurus questionable.[

[sullen cairn]

Isn’t the whole point the Jurassic carcharodontosaurs are more similar to Cretaceous carcharodontosaurus than allosaurus that’s like the whole point of comparative morphology

[runic heart]

So asfaltovenator isn’t allosauridae. It’s a basal allosauroid.

[undone rapids]

So its something very close to lusovenator, which is a carch

[sullen cairn]

Tmk the Jurassic carchs consistently clade with the Cretaceous ones

[runic heart]

Allosaurus could just be a stand alone thing.

[sullen cairn]

And as non-carcharodontosaurid carcharodontosaurians they are still absolutely united with carcharodontosaurids to the exclusion of allosaurids

[undone rapids]

They made a group chat without allo cuz its annoying.

[runic heart]

Allosaurus is the schizo loner making bank off its many species.

[warm saddle]

How much did the smallest adult allo specimen weigh again? (in metric)

[drifting condor]

Just found out my spirit animal is the African sable so what do you think is the dinosaur counerpart of the African sable os based off diet,niche in the ecosystem,lifestyle,looks if you can find something similar in appearance in one way

[elfin moss]

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3536

[fluid inlet]

A little bit

[lavish frigate]

Well I think it’s more than marketing, I do think that the people at colossal have a genuine passion for reviving extinct species, the company was founded to do that after all.

[runic heart]

I understand how corporate and unethical they are, but if they can make something that at least looks like a dodo, would that not be kinda neat?

Don’t release them onto Mauritius though obviously.

[lavish frigate]

I still don’t really see any evidence of wrongdoing from them other than exaggerating what the wolves really were by using a different species definition, which isn’t the best thing to do but it’s technically valid under the ecological species concept so I’m not gonna beat them over the head for it

[thorn grove]

I think people tend to just be naturally suspicious of 'playing god' or whatever, and them sort of lying about that just further increased people's suspicions

[balmy oyster]

Doubling down on that too was sort of weird

[fluid inlet]

Not enough Edmontosaurus talk after this magnificent paper and material from Paul Serrano

[thorn grove]

I can't believe we had so much good Hadrosaur material for so long and we still let them look as ugly as they did for decades on end

[bright veldt]

They basically lied about bringing back Dire Wolves (Yes, lied, they did about multiple things multiple times during their various PR stunts about the whole thing), and have essentially slandered genuine conservation efforts, while constantly fishing for media attention over things that is essentially just white noise (Shoutout to saying they'll bring back dodos and moa soon when cloning birds right now is literally impossible).

Deextinction, while not inherently a bad thing, is problematic for the very reasons that Colossal is doing it. They claim it is to help with conservation, but it is fishing resources away from said conservation efforts (which they again have actively talked down to before), such efforts they have shown have been non-productive in said effort (Dire Wolves have no conservation value even if they were legitimate), and the first thing American politicians saw in response to said "de-extinction" was to suggest redacting threatened species from the endangered species list because, in their eyes, if threatened with extinction they can just be ressurected.

[thorn grove]

beautiful boys

[bright veldt]

Also, again, shoutout to them trying to slander and ruin the reputations of scientists that justifiably disagree with them.

[hallow spear]

Amplexus is (at least currently) lumpable into Fragilis, not anax

[fluid inlet]

The vast majority didn’t know that, hell I didn’t know that and I’m pretty interested in any material.

So it was just described then , I never heard anyone in here mention prior to this paper.

[bright veldt]

A lot of people are also disillusioned as to what actual passion in relation to animals is. Saying they love animals and want to save them in the most passionate way possible is all well and good but means nothing if their actions actively contradict that. But people tend to just see the former and not the latter. It's a problem with media in general not just Colossal.

[fluid inlet]

Welcome back bud

[bright veldt]

Cheers

[balmy oyster]

Your pfp reminds me of egg yolks and makes me kinda hungry…

[lavish frigate]

Yay, I’m such a big fan of discord just arbitrarily not letting me see pings because my personal fbi agent has a vendetta against me or something 💀

I have learned I was wrong and silly, and apologize for making
Uninformed claims

[bright veldt]

All good. I'm not going to act like Colossal is all bad, they have done some good things, but that doesn't suddenly excuse the majority of what they do which is bad, and I can understand how folks don't know because people just generally don't hear about it.

[thorn grove]

Half the people in this chat give me a ping when they respond to me, the other half don’t

I still have no idea how it chooses

[lavish frigate]

A lot of the time I don’t ping people because some people have really strong feelings about being pinged and it’s safer to hier on not doing it just in case lol

Obligatory dinosaur so the mods don’t discipline us with bricks and heavy objects

How accurate is this camptosaurus I did for a thingy?

[bright veldt]

Camptosaurus was generally a lot more bulky and with shorter legs.

As far as I know compared to their neighbors like dryosaurus they weren't very fast.

[lavish frigate]

He’s shaped like horizontal big chungus

[balmy oyster]

No that’s ceratosaurus

wait no I think that would be vertical

[thorn grove]

ceratosaurus is shaped like plywood

[little mauve]

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3282 Naashoibito Member dated to the very latest Cretaceous (~66.4 to 66.0 million years)

[green helm]

New one?

https://dfzljdn9uc3pi.cloudfront.net/2021/11302/1/fig-6-2x.jpg

[paper parcel]

Could Rauisuchians survive today?

[green helm]

It probably would get smaller and get hunted down by humans

[paper parcel]

What about. Rauisuchian steeds?

[green helm]

Steeds?

[balmy oyster]

Saurosuchus steed would go hard

[green helm]

Da hell is steeds

[balmy oyster]

Like horse

[green helm]

"Steed" is an archaic or poetic term for a horse, particularly a fine or spirited one used for riding

[balmy oyster]

The spirit saurosuchus

[green helm]

Does that mean sarcosuchus powerscaling

[fluid inlet]

Speed

[runic heart]

So allosaurus could fill pretty much any niche then with its many species and sizes.

[outer tusk]

Ouranosaurus is peak

[fierce quarry]

Can't wait to get DB one in game

[umbral kite]

hey whats the difference between trex jaws or tarbosaurus jaws because if theyre haws lock woulnd yhat make tarbo stronger

[empty socket]

https://vxtwitter.com/TheBioBob/status/1981425639564411370

Ole Zant (@TheBioBob)

Two new Edmontosaurus skeletons with preserved skin just got published by Paul Sereno and collegues. They had a fleshy scaly crest over their back and hoofed feet!

I was lucky enough to see the specimens last summer. The publication is open access:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3536 https://t.co/JY2yWJLSId

vxTwitter / fixvx · Oct 23, 2025, 6:21 PM

[coral forge]

Does e. annectens have a crest and mini sail now?

[craggy trench]

"We tentatively add the fleshy midline comb over the occiput preserved in close relative E. regalis"
So no direct evidence

[coral forge]

what about the crest

[runic heart]

Probably more of a hump than a sail. Like Acro.

[green helm]

this is lovely

[white matrix]

kind of annoying how they keep saying edmont has hoofed front feet

[runic heart]

It’s just fleshy padding.

[green helm]

i still havent seen the new 15 ton deino from fadeno

[stiff osprey]

i was being hyperbolic but i assume he will come up with a new massive one sooner or later

[green helm]

lets see if he will bring anything to the table then shall we

[lavish frigate]

I love how Edmont started as a boring stereotype of a hadrosaur and has gradually become a shining example of how the most boring looking creatures can actually have some of the coolest unfossilized structures

[green helm]

yk what the biggest prehistoric dog is?

[stiff osprey]

Epicyon haydeni iirc

[green helm]

would it be bigger then the prehistoric cats?

[stiff osprey]

No, it's like half the size of Smilodon

[green helm]

ohh so how much does it weight

like this size eh?

[cloud dagger]

Epicyon’s shoulder height is around 90cm, not far from today’s wolf, 85cm

[charred hearth]

isnt it funyn how we both have extremely large indivuals of the first 2 dinosaurs? ( i think its 8 ton megalo?? and 10 ton iggy )

[thorn grove]

pardon me for not being very well informed on those specimens but wasn't it the case that a lot of dinosaur material was just haphazardly lumped in with those two taxa

[charred hearth]

heres 10 ton iggy

[undone rapids]

Is 8 tonne Megalo from a Footprint?

[charred hearth]

does neovenator got this?

and heres that giant megalosaurus, i think its 5 tons

[rancid dove]

Neo is small ?

[tulip dove]

Obviously
What is a weak grass eater gonna do against the swift and cunning carnivore...

[charred hearth]

ask @undone rapids as i believe he made it

[undone rapids]

Maybe there are bigger specimens we have, but I just used this

[charred hearth]

also its next to a giant 10 ton iguanadon

[white matrix]

thats the lamb and magnapaulia thing all over again

[charred hearth]

may i ask how?

[outer tusk]

We actually do have a bigger specimen

[undone rapids]

Yeah I'm checking what material they have

[charred hearth]

so neovenator got that?

[balmy oyster]

Yes trust

[undone rapids]

Its not much, but yeah its a bigger Theropod referred to Neo. Two incomplete Neck Bones and a Toe Bone

[rancid dove]

So hot

[charred hearth]

if im correct, spinosaurids were usually the largest therapod in their enviorment, right?

[undone rapids]

It varies, In North Africa(Egypt and Morrocoo mainly) Carchs are bigger. Sucho is the biggest in its formation though.

[charred hearth]

bro got his backer taken away

[thorn grove]

what happened to you

[fossil ingot]

Ah yes
Isle of Wright Iggy
My Fab Lad

[thorn grove]

why write many word when few word do trick

[white matrix]

its an iguanadon like femur, not at actual iguanadon

[steep atlas]

The yapper

[charred hearth]

he got his backer back

[steep atlas]

We just need more specimens to see

[charred hearth]

whats para's range

[thorn grove]

tbf the giant Edmonto and Para stuff is questionable as actually belonging to either taxon

[little mauve]

I think there's some suggestion of developmental plasticity being widespread in dinosauria but to what degree I'm not sure

I think the next best explanation is speciation and/or sexual dimorphism but I suspect it's a combination of all three that explains these variable sizes. We need much bigger samples of basically every genus to determine one way or another

[sullen cairn]

para's development plasticity amounts to some maxillae/jugals that are actually the same length as all the other maxillae/jugals and footprints that people think are parasaurolophus for no discernable reason

[thorn grove]

para's massive size variability is just fadeno pulling another fadeno

[little mauve]

Yeah the evidence is stronger in Saurischia

[sullen cairn]

with edmontosaurus there is indeed a lot of unresolved morphological variation in its purpoted hypodigm but with parasaurolophus its just like lying about the things size

granted there is some rtmp postcrania sometimes tentatively referred to walkeri that appears to be a good bit larger than the holotype but even that isnt nearly as dramatic as some of the size charts online would have you believe

[thorn grove]

"MOR 1609 was originally regarded as a gigantic specimen of Edmontosaurus annectens, but analysis of its morphology highlights several peculiarities... The maxilla and jugal morphologies observed in MOR 1609 are more similar to those observed in the saurolophin hadrosaurid Saurolophus. Incorporation of MOR 1609 into a phylogenetic analysis resulted in a polytomy for the strict consensus tree; the 50% majority rule tree places MOR 1609 outside of Edmontosaurini and within Saurolophini. Given the large size of the specimen, it is possible that the cranial features noted here represent late-stage ontogenetic changes within Edmontosaurus."

https://share.google/uAou5zGmdR9uz79Qv page 160

Given we have an extremely limited amount of Hadrosaur material in the size range of MOR 1609 it's hard to say anything definitively atm but it is questionable that those individuals are indeed Edmontosaurus

[sullen cairn]

i generally agree with this but i dont think remarkable variation in size is a concern for most of anything but edmontosaurus

ofc i just meant in regard to the initial premise thats there drastic size variation in several hadrosaur taxa

granted i suppose there's an argument to be made for magnapaulia not actually having any diagnostic humerus characters

maybe they can also touch upon the purpoted hell creek lambeosaur crania nobody's bothered mentioning since like 20 years ago

[thorn grove]

giant Hell Creek Saurolophini would be cool

[sullen cairn]

as of 20 years ago it was in the university of wyoming

there's images of its ribs thats about it

granted there was an abstract like 20 years ago about how they're diagnostically lambeosaur ribs which also has never been mentioned again so take that as you will

[little mauve]

Posted last night too but the Naashoibito has been constrained to the latest Maastrichtian, pretty cool for latest-K diversity in NA https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3282

[sullen cairn]

its so surprising the previous provisional magnetostratigraphic and radiometric analysis were correct and not the dinosaur biostratigraphy in the half of the continent with like five diagnostic taxa

[sullen cairn]

thank you gsp please never try doing strat again 🤗

[little mauve]

Lol

[thorn grove]

interesting

if I can ask what are you getting at

[sullen cairn]

there's also an abstract from like 20 years ago about how it got half a rib torn out by a tyrannosaur and lived which again crickets

[thorn grove]

the first one is interesting cuz that's the author of the abstract I quoted from and the tweet was posted slightly before the abstract was published on at all

[thorn grove]

why are we ignoring the most interesting thing in hell creek then what

[coral forge]

how long is supersaurus lourinhanensis

[sullen cairn]

cause its a bunch of 20yo abstracts with no current followup
also wegweiser calls it a hadrosaurine in a 2006 abstract (which seems to be the last new word on the thing along with 2006 paper saying the crania has putative lambeosaur affinities)

[thorn grove]

unfortunately neither giant HC Hadrosaurid specimen has a femur, or any other limb material for that matter

[sullen cairn]

there's also some crucial information we must keep in mind when discussing lancian dinosaur diversity

[coral forge]

and on a 100% completely unrelated note would it be simpler to do a chart of every rebbachisaur and a chart of every flagelligaudate separately or do all of diplodocoidea in one chart

all 52 (20 rebacchisaurs, 30 flagellicaudates and haplocanthosaurus)

[thorn grove]

is this reddit et al.

[sullen cairn]

there would be no better source

[undone rapids]

Evidence Torosaurus and Denversaurus are just Juvi Triceratops and Ankylosaurus?

[coral forge]

if i split it into 2 I would probably have to do only diplodocimorpha considering Haplocanthosaurus is the only basal diplodocoid so I would be excluding 1 singular genus

[thorn grove]

S. osborni

[plush fossil]

Has anyone seen the new dinosauria animation? It's terrifying but so well made

[thorn grove]

go for it I like the idea of a 15 meter Saurolophus

[coral forge]

Gigantosaurolophus

[sullen cairn]

go go gadget augustynolophus fortlakepeckensis

[coral forge]

anyone know how long supersaurus lourinhanensis is

[thorn grove]

Edmusthosaurus

or maybe Mustholophus to represent it being in a different clade

[sullen cairn]

crazy how musth is from like two years old at this point

engorged musth sacs

[thorn grove]

generally larger animals tend to be more robust but without limb or torso material that's just an inference

[coral forge]

Heptakósiahebdomēkontaennéasaurolophus

meaning 779 dactylos (ancient greek measurement unit equalling about 14.996 meters) saurolophus

[thorn grove]

I still think Mustholophus is funnier but you're making the drawing

probably not too much no

[balmy oyster]

Davidini schowdereni

[winter marsh]

Wb Goblindromaeus clashensis

[charred hearth]

if we discovered a fossil of a animal on another planet, would that still fall under paleontology?

[green helm]

Paleontology 2.0

[thorn grove]

it would probably be referred to as astro-paleontology or exo-paleontology

[coral forge]

paleoastronomy or smth

[lavish frigate]

Yeah it would be

We actually kinda did that probably on mars so that’s cool (if we count microbes as animals)

[thorn grove]

that would also work, yea

btw how is your giant Saurolophus going

ok fair lol

[charred hearth]

are we team biped or quad ourano

[thorn grove]

ostensibly it was capable of both like other Hadrosauriformes but off the top of my head I don't know enough about its material to say anything beyond that

yea I don't think it's named or anything but there's one from Cedar mountain apparently

[lavish frigate]

Seriously why did like nobody talk about this 💀 https://youtu.be/iWuFBZw9Olk?si=v7Zu9Rl5cNmbSfMK

also mods, this is paleontology 👍

[thorn grove]

It's probably not the kind of thing people in this chat are used to being autistic over but it is a genuinely very exciting discovery

[fluid inlet]

We playing Ourano in eoe bud

[lavish frigate]

This is a case of microbial fossils inside a rock so idk how that could come from contamination

[neat notch]

https://youtu.be/i2OYcptFl9c?si=NRNDbJK66J4h3Xa0

Best thing I saw this whole month

[zealous ravine]

Oh no they already did that. They waited to share the news until they exhausted all other possibilities. Tbh idk how you missed it people were talking all about it a few weeks ago.

[white matrix]

@ionic crescent thanks for making no cheeks look weird for me😭

[runic heart]

EEWWWW!!!!

The face bro. Hadrosaurs need cheeks, you can’t change my mind.

[mental mirage]

education is important guys

[drifting condor]

Miragaia is the only invalid dino in pot rn

[ionic crescent]

Not actually, laten is

[drifting condor]

Yeah nvm your right

[left shell]

Hasn't it been valid for some time?

[tough parcel]

Not since...2023(?)

[left shell]

Interesting, what was discovered in 2023?

[sullen cairn]

Laten’s complicated because the 2025 troodon neotype proposal is unironically one of the most articulate arguments for its validity since its description

[ashen wedge]

Wait Troodon is coming back?

[sullen cairn]

Hopefully not but some workers are trying to regardless

[ashen wedge]

I don’t see an issue with the name of Troodon

[warped peak]

Can we just abolish all 3 of the big Troodontids into a new genus

Neomorphodon idk

[bright veldt]

To me it really depends on if the neotype gets approved or not. I still think it's super flawed but given carchar was also sketchy and people are letting it slide, I can't argue if they say it's legit.

[sullen cairn]

tbf carchs neotype was never subject to an iczn petition so its acceptance is only really reliant on peer concensus rather than a strict ruling

[bright veldt]

I'm just talking logic-wise.

[stiff osprey]

what happens if a neotype doesn't get an iczn petition

do we just act like it's a neotype until eventually people forget it's not

[bright veldt]

Is that not what spino is doing?

[sullen cairn]

but my concern with troodon is moreso they make like zero coherent morphological argument any historically relevant troodon material is actually the same taxon as their neotype (and if anything lend more support to the contrary)
which would lead to the revised neotype-concept of troodon being entirely separate from "troodon" prior to the 21st century in both anatomy and relevant specimens

[stiff osprey]

it doesn't seem to be working given the increasing opinion that FSAC isn't aegyptiacus

[sullen cairn]

spinosaurus and carch both wont ever get an iczn petition because iczn petitions are only for non-lost/exploded holotypes anyways

[stiff osprey]

so if a holotype is lost the first person to claim neotype just. gets it?

[sullen cairn]

if everyone agrees it meets the iczn criteria yeah
which the iczn itself doesnt rule on so its kinda just based on vibes from workers

only when the holotype still exists is there an actual iczn petition and ruling

[tardy dune]

Edmont buff?

https://youtu.be/i2OYcptFl9c?si=biP8ulBYd5JGsQeT

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/tm9380/status/1981682338426974609?s=46

Taylor McCoy 🦖 (@TM9380)

Yesterday, the Edmontosaurus “mummies” dominated the internet. But another major paper was also released, this one describing a site in New Mexico and the implications that dinosaurs were not in decline at the end of the Cretaceous

Art by @WryCritic

X · Oct 24, 2025, 11:21 AM

[charred hearth]

whats its buff?

[fluid inlet]

Yes

[opal acorn]

anyone know what this could be? its an inventum mod a future inventum mod

its not a large sauropod, they said therizinosaurus is the largest mod they plan on ever making

[charred hearth]

jobaria

[tribal ridge]

think it was confirmed cetiosaurus

[opal acorn]

they didnt say anything besides "its sillhoheted (ik i spelled it wrong) for a reason, you can try to guess tho"

[charred hearth]

thats bigger then theri

[compact leaf]

jobaria is pretty big, definitely bigger than theri

[charred hearth]

mini-jobaria

[runic heart]

So THIS is why the Wwd torvo looks the way it does!!! New material gave us a new skull shape.

[balmy oyster]

Don’t know why because this looks crushed to me

[fossil ingot]

Elvis Mount isn't really
New Material tbf

And Looks Somewhat Crushed

WWD Skull is also thickers than in Elvis Mount and doesn't seem Crushed

[opal acorn]

as someone who has no experience in skeletals at all and has no clue what would look right or wrong, yeah that looks damaged

[fossil ingot]

This two don't look the same(the Skeletal is Based on the Mount)

[bright veldt]

It definitely is warped in some capacity, although I'm failing to see how people are seeing a difference here. Torvo's kind of always looked like this. The more boxy skull has always been the minority.

[fossil ingot]

This is just Mount Moment
Mounts are the reason ppl think Rex is a Fat ah and why Demphy's Acro is what it is

[fluid inlet]

Nothing is wrong with Dempsey acro bud

[balmy oyster]

It’s not the boxiness that’s the issue, it’s this whole part that looks comparable to deformation you’d see in specimens like due or wait is that what you said

[fossil ingot]

Ahh Yes
Its an Acro thats Based on a Mount with some Unknown Stuff, Same Reason the Patato is based on a Mount and suddently gained a Massive Weight Boost
Same for Apato suddenly gained almost 20t out of the blue for been based on a Mount.
So Bud, I wouldn't Tfust Mounts 100%

[balmy oyster]

Either way the skull here is definitely crushed

[fluid inlet]

Oh you silly bud you.

[fossil ingot]

"Silly bud"
Doesn't Prove why I am silly.
Totally average Paleo Response

[balmy oyster]

No he’s got a point.

Museum mounts are notorious for proportional mishaps

[fossil ingot]

Museum Mounts tend to have quite the margin of error and alot of other mistakes
This is not new at all

[fossil ingot]

The Sue with a Torso thats Deeper than someone trying to look for my empathy(its almost none existant)

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/werewolf-doctor-who-howling-howl-moon-gif-9045021316988225379

[fluid inlet]

The lad is a silly one, but Dempsey papers are heavily researched, he’s probably has the best access just in terms of acro.

As for Torvo I could see it being crushed but how crushed is the question i don’t think it’s too far off this reconstruction , which i absolutely love.

[fossil ingot]

My Guy
Demphy's himself said his Acro is Based on a Museum Mount😭
He also gave Pictures of said mounts

[balmy oyster]

me when

It is though, ik theropod skulls can be sorta curvy sometimes but this looks like a lite version of Sue 😭

[fluid inlet]

What are you suggesting

[fossil ingot]

If you wanna reconstruct Elvis of the Mount Skull it will look like that.
Otherwise its more Megalosaurid Looking

[balmy oyster]

That the skull is crushed and needs editing

[fossil ingot]

Sue Skull ia funny

[fluid inlet]

Skull looks fine on the reconstruction imo

[balmy oyster]

honestly it looks perfectly fine, it really just depends on reconstruction, and it’s in a museum too so how it is shown here must be accurate to what the animal was like irl

[fossil ingot]

Average Sue Moment

[fluid inlet]

Stop this is no where near the same LMAO and you know it

[fossil ingot]

I mean
The Point is to show that the Skull shows signs of been demorfed
Not the same Extent but still has issues

[balmy oyster]

Gurneyi has a maxilia that from what I know was in better preservation that can be used for edmarka/elvis

[fluid inlet]

Which I quote said it doesn’t look far off bud.

[fossil ingot]

Wiehen is just
Bulky Megalo
He Peaks

[balmy oyster]

I caught a whiff of the ragebait, nice try

The whole skull seems sort of crushed, which also accounts for the maxilia

[fossil ingot]

Raging is just like that
You get use to it

Megalo can atleast defend itself

[compact leaf]

you can also see that the top of the naris is distorted

[charred hearth]

what would rex rely on the most?

a - its sight
b - its hearing
c - its smell

[balmy oyster]

We don’t know much about dinosaur hearing capabilities, but I’d recon smell & sight would be the big 2

[charred hearth]

seeing its prey items, i feel like sight would probably be the best

[fossil ingot]

Rex has Great Smell and Sight
It prob used that more than hearing
Tho its hearing waa likely good too
Its Rex ffs lol

Yeah
Totally Why when making WWD the Skull doesn't represent the Mounts Skull

[balmy oyster]

Must be a low bar then because this is showing definitive signs of taphonomic distortion

[fluid inlet]

It’s crazy that I’m being accused of rage baiting but overall the reconstruction looks fine , def better than the skull of Sue fish posted and said it’s a normal reconstruction lol

[charred hearth]

would all megatherapods rely mainly on sight due to their prey?

[bright veldt]

Straight up. It's not the worst but it is present. Although again I don't get why people are acting like torvo's head has been boxier until recently. It hasn't.

[bright veldt]

Basically all theropods had good vision so sure I guess

[fossil ingot]

It looks Good for a Mount
But doesn't change that its Skull is the main issue
Ppl have compliment Sue's Mount despite its Gastralia error
Compliments≠best
Elvis description is also kinda
None exists or barely any good
Which doesn't help the mount

You can Reconstruct Elvis Skull without been crushed just fine lol

[balmy oyster]

Why doesn’t it work? I don’t see how fixing up the obvious dent in the middle of the skull and tweaking the heights of various skull bones (like how people do with Sue’s skull, especially by using other Rex skulls) will make it inaccurate when it’ll match up more with what we know of megalosauridae in general?

[fluid inlet]

This is legit just fine

[bright veldt]

like torvo's kinda always been like this, you just see the boxier head on a few mounts I don't get it

[charred hearth]

which dinosaur species has the most indivuality throughout its specimens?

[balmy oyster]

Allosaurus, likely Rex, and triceratops

[fossil ingot]

Its Fine
If you wanna base it off the Mount sure
Same way Demphy's is Fine if you wanna base it on a Museum Mount lol

It can look fine, doesn't meab uts Objectively fine tho
I can say the Sue Mount with a Gastralia to low looks fine despite objectively speaking is not

[compact leaf]

yeah those three pretty much, they have sheer volume of specimens contributing to that

[charred hearth]

really? trike? i thought it'd be either edmonto or styraco ( so unique it got turned into multiple animals )

[bright veldt]

Yeah I think the award would go to ceratopsids in general. Them having horn consistency between specimens is optional for a lot of them.

[balmy oyster]

Ooo yes styra is definitely a good one

Edmonto maybe, but a lot of skulls that we thought were different species just represented different age groups

[compact leaf]

styracosaurus has very unique specimens just not as many of them with skulls as something like trike

[fossil ingot]

Styra is prob a Good Candidate yeah

[white matrix]

@hallow spear starting to think the best way to get apex stuff is through dempsey

[charred hearth]

also, whats the earliest tyrannosaurus? 73 mya?

[fossil ingot]

Allo also multiplied by 10x and basically decided to be everywhere smh