paleontology

[charred hearth]

this would be a weird question but how heavy would a ceratopsian horn be? like, would i be able to lift it ? or would it be too heavy?

[stiff osprey]

trike horn would probably be too heavy but i think you could lift a Styrac horn with some effort

[lime surge]

Do you guys think stegosaurus galloped?

[stiff osprey]

Absolutely not

[lime surge]

Thank god I’m not the only one

It looks so weird I’d rather the one in path run like the mira or eo

[stiff osprey]

The forelimbs are sort of built like galloping animals (mostly because they were used to quickly pivot the body around to swipe at things) but the hindlimbs are even more collumnar than some sauropods. Plus the size difference between limbs is so big it would just faceplant

And an adult stego can be like 8 t so probably too big to gallop anyway

[lime surge]

Yes I agree the anatomy of stegosaurus is way to bulky and in some cases fat to be able to gallop

[sharp dragon]

And that's why Stegosaurus used segways.

[lime surge]

Could you elaborate a bit more please?

[sharp dragon]

No.

[lime surge]

Fair anyway thanks I been thinking about stego being able to gallop as such a weird thing so I had to clear it up the best way I could

Btw you guys know any good paleontology podcasts? I need one

[sharp dragon]

Best i can do is "One hour of silence occasionally broken by Metal Pipe falling SFX".
Does that work for you?

[stiff osprey]

I don't do podcasts but Skeleton Crew is a favorite in some of the servers i'm in

[lime surge]

Okay I’ll tryem

[charred hearth]

why were stegosaurid hip spikes unlikely again? i remember some depictions having them and then they died out

[lime surge]

Kent?

[charred hearth]

i believe so?

[wind prairie]

they were probably all only on the shoulders until proven otherwise

[charred hearth]

i know that but why did ppl original depict them with hip spikes and when did that become like, not impossible but highly unlikely for any to have them?

[hallow spear]

I actually don’t agree the size difference is like that because all other specimens have more elongate forelimbs(or shorter hind limbs) than the measurements you used for 4934 (they also have a shorter femur)

Not that I’m arguing for it galloping because I doubt it, but just that the size difference isn’t actually that big (APEX, DNMH 1843 and USNM 4934 using different measurements that fit the ratio of better specimens)

[hallow spear]

These arnt the reasons, the main reason as to why is the hind limbs, and size, the size is less of a constraint if it turns out that it’s thinner than Sophie’s depiction usually is (likely)

[frigid delta]

any news abt Trachodon?

[hallow spear]

Also one curious thing, would you not assume that the columnular legs are also an adaptation to help with the pivoting? Rather then the same reason sauropods have fully graviportal limbs. All things considered non of the anatomical attributes of stegosaurs, including size and mass (I reckon stegosaurus at least was thinner than Sophie depictions lead us to believe mainly because Sophie’s hips are flattened dorsally

Something like the isle evrima stegosaurus gait seems plausible though since it isn’t a gallop

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/dinosaur-britain-dacentrurus-stegosaurus-walking-gif-25549549

[coral forge]

Stegosaurus Longicollum

[white matrix]

Which looks more accurate on pt trex the stocky, normal, or the slightly bulkier species like the 5th one

If this would be accurate wouldn’t jp3 spino be the size of a very large theropod irl?

[fossil ingot]

JP3 Spino is a mess size wise
You can make it 46-50ft long
More recent stuff place it at 50ft
The Old Bad JP3 size Chart says 43.3ft but if you actually measure it, its 46ft.
However
Jp3 Spino weights 8t if you wanna use the outdated size and 10t if you wanna use the 50ft estimate

[stiff osprey]

collumnar limbs have nothing to do with pivoting, a sauropod is one of the worst animals at turning fast (which is likely why stegosaurs needed forelimbs similar to those of mediportal animals)

and a slightly thinner Stegosaurus would still be the size of a bull elephant

even if it were smaller with a more even limb ratio, the hindlimbs show that it was not galloping any more than an elephant is

[hallow spear]

Yeah but I meant more so stability standpoint I was thinking?

[hallow spear]

I just don’t see why stegosaurs would need columnular legs in any way, without it being partly due to the way it uses its tail

[warped peak]

Columnar legs are good for supporting burden ye?

[charred hearth]

at max strength, whos swing would have greater force, a stego's or a anky's?

[warped peak]

I think at the same weight, Anky, but Stego is a lot heavier so Stego

[open compass]

That's not accurate (JWR dinos size)

[white matrix]

what are the sizes?

[opaque kayak]

Jurassic world theropods are really light for their size so probably not

[open compass]

Dunno, but those sizes are pretty wrong

[outer tusk]

JWR IN PALEO CHAT@

[charred hearth]

what even is the ecosystem of the jwr island, isnt htere only like, 2 herbis?

if im correct, the drex and rex prey on the titanosaurs?

[stiff osprey]

i doubt rex preys on the adults, it's one of the few JP theropods that hasn't been shown killing any sauropod in canon

D-rex most likely does since it's too slow to hunt anything else

[charred hearth]

im gonna assume the mutadons are the primary predator of the aquilops?

[sterile trail]

Poor Aquilops being preyed on by literally everything lol

/j

[fossil ingot]

(Its the same sizes as the one above)

Rebirth Spino's are just
Small, I do like that Concept Art of ember tho

[white matrix]

accurate trex would be the same size as ember then lol

[open compass]

Rex is too small, + there's no way titano was only 20.7m long

[open compass]

I don't think those were all dinos from the island

[fossil ingot]

My Guy
CGI scenes are Not a Good Reference

The Mosasaurus went through the most scale changes of any creature. We created the Mosa based on something very similar to the Mosa before, and then we’d start to put them in the shot, and Gareth would go, “Not big enough.” And you’re like, “This is already two times the size of a whale — that’s ginormous.” He’s like, “No, it needs to be cut off from the frame. It needs to feel absolutely massive.” There were a couple of shots where we scaled up to 400% larger than the original size and ratio. It was almost a shot-by-shot basis. We basically went through each shot and went, “Okay, that one’s 100%. That one’s 250%. Alright, that one’s more like 100% again.”

https://www.motionpictures.org/2025/07/the-willem-dafoe-of-dinosaurs-how-jurassic-world-rebirth-vfx-supervisor-charmaine-chan-created-the-distortus-rex/

Using CGI Scenes as Size References isn't the best way to scale things
You are better off going the size provided by the team
Titano is only 20.7m long in the Posture used there

Ember is about 4.94m and 12.8m in a Neutral Pose when using its Official Render as Reference

[open compass]

if in JWR the dinso keep switching their "official" size, then the chart doesn't tell us anything solid. How are we supposed to know the real scale if the CGI models are resized in every shot? Without a fixed reference, all these measurements become meaningless. Also, that "titano's posture" makes no sense, length chart don't work like this

[winter marsh]

I think rebirth spino is a bit larger than that, especially on that scene where it snatches Bob Idontknow. He looks very small inside the spinos mouth

[open compass]

I think the problem is the human figure on this size chart, I mean, It's wide, that's why it looks big

[charred hearth]

how fuctional was the original jurassic park ecosystem?

• brachiosaurus

• trike

• para

• galli

• segisaurus

• tyrannosaurus

• baryonx

• velicoraptor

• proceratosaurus

• metricanthosaurus

• troodon

• tylosaurus

[charred hearth]

did i miss any btw?

apparently compy and pteradon were also in the original jp island?

[fierce quarry]

Cearadactylus ?

[tough parcel]

YES! Thank you!!! They become meaningless!!!

This is why you don't pay attention to size charts of media animals

[charred hearth]

where was that present?

[stiff osprey]

not enough herbivore diversity to be functional imo (Segisaurus is a carnivore btw)

[charred hearth]

would site b be better? i believe it has alot more herbivores then nublar

[stiff osprey]

the novel ones are better (if you ignore that the raptors were way too overpowered) but there were too few of each species to survive for long

*in nublar that is, we don't have an official number count for sorna animals

[open compass]

Btw site B had edmontosaurus

[stiff osprey]

Ahh hell

[charred hearth]

would you rather

work at prehestoric park

or

work at jurassic world OR park, your choosing

[tulip dove]

Yeah, it had more herbivores than nublar, at least before the events of Jurassic World, but there were also lot of carnivores too

[stiff osprey]

Sorna's population is screwed when the bull Edmontosaurus goes into musth

[tulip dove]

Funnily enough
Sorna only had 4 Edmontos before the Ingen abandoned the island

[charred hearth]

4??

[open compass]

Prehistoric Kingdom because their dinos don't attack anyone (yet)
Oh I thought you were talking about PK, lol

[charred hearth]

i mean, matilda did attempt to maul nigel

[tulip dove]

Yeah, there weren't many of them
Other herbivores were pretty much thriving compared to it before Ingen left
Like Brachis and Trikes had 10
Stegos at 11
Paras were at around 13 or 15

But you also had, y'know, 7 rexes on the island too
Not to mention the various other carnivores that they had cloned too

[charred hearth]

im trying to remember what caused the original animal breakout in prehestoric park, it was the sauropods right?

[open compass]

Because fences were terrible

[stiff osprey]

A Troodon got into Bob's car, which caused him to swerve and scare the titanosaurs

[tulip dove]

Troodon had snuck on to the jeep Nigel had used during the operation to get a Deinosuchus back to the Park
BoB went on a drive with the same car and headed towards the Titanosaurs, which caused them to get spooked and run rampant around the park

[charred hearth]

" a Troodon has secretly snuck into the jeep searching for meat, and it attacks Bob, resulting in him losing control of the vehicle, which proceeds to startle the titanosaurs. They flee, and one of them ends up rampaging throughout the park, breaking enclosures and releasing various animals including the Elasmotherium, Ornithomimus, terror bird, and Tyrannosaurus. This initiates the event known by many fans as the "mass break out." "

[charred hearth]

you notice how they actually got everything back under control ? thats because the staff at prehestoric park is confident unlike the jurassic park staff

[stiff osprey]

I would choose to work in JW between 2005-2014 because canonically everything was fine until they decided to breed a hyperintelligent edgeasaurus

Nobody died in Prehistoric Park but it was only a matter of time with those flimsy ahh wood fences

[tulip dove]

And they also hired more staff to take care of the park too

[fossil ingot]

Cause those are the Preliminary sizes??
They only change sizes on scenes to make them scarier and match the scene

[hallow spear]

Stego purely because it’s a much smaller surface area so it’s a much higher force concentrated

[hallow spear]

Wdym supporting burden?

[open compass]

Surviving Earth teasers looks great

[warped peak]

Better for high stress than normal legs

[fierce quarry]

Nublar iirc

[charred hearth]

i know he wnated to save them, but surely, bringing back 10 ton animals without telling anyone into a park sorely unprepared for it is a bad idea

[fierce quarry]

Beautiful omg

[open compass]

CGI is just beautiful as Prehistoric Planet tbh

[charred hearth]

do we have any updates on the prehestoric planet ice age series?

[fierce quarry]

Yes, btw in like 2 months we'll be having PP: Ice Age

[open compass]

2,5 months

[charred hearth]

y'all be honest

do we think pp: ice age means

only the ice age

or

the entire pleistocene

[winter marsh]

only the ice pleistoage

[charred hearth]

so most likely no meg?

[warped peak]

Certainly not

Definitely wish it was the Miocene instead tbh, so many more awesome faces there

[charred hearth]

do you think they'll do a pp: walking with monsters?

[warped peak]

No but it'd be nice

Prionosuchus, Parahelicoprion, Anteosaurus, all the goodies

[hallow spear]

Yeah which is what I think would be the reason too, for tail swinging mechanics, I feel like there isn’t any other reason that makes sense other then for handling the compressive load and stress required for forcefully swinging the tail potentially with a pivot motion

[warped peak]

Clearly this is because it used its legs for kicking

Buck Kick Stego!

[hallow spear]

True!

[winter marsh]

nah stego was a certified karate champ

[fluid inlet]

Already better than wwd2 by a landslide

[covert lintel]

probably specifically the ice age. previous prehistoric planet series focused on a single very small section of the cretaceous iirc, so this'll likely follow suit, just... y'know, not in the cretaceous

[white matrix]

so every picture i see of sophie has 12 cervicals and 19 plates, is that correct?

anyone have pictures of stegosaurus feet?

[white matrix]

how is the head's shape?

@hallow spear

[hallow spear]

13 cervicals 18-19 plates but you may want to redo them based on the revised plate orientation that came out last year (I did mention that before)

[white matrix]

pics? honestly forgot

[white matrix]

weird, i counted 12. how are the tail spikes?

[hallow spear]

You miscounted probably

[white matrix]

yeah i did miscount, fixed plates

[white matrix]

why does mira have 4 toes? thought they had 5?

[sudden wind]

Also noticeable in other stegosaurs : 5th finger is a nub

[white matrix]

thanks

[frigid delta]

how accurate is Dawn's Rex?
model has lips with Sharptooth inspired eyes, along with head ornamentation based on Luis Rey

[white matrix]

how are these?

[frigid delta]

WASH HIS BELLY!!!

[winter marsh]

not much, especially those pronounced wrists and that crest

[sly viper]

Did baryonyx only eat fish or did it also eat other dinosaurs?

[outer tusk]

It ate things

[sly viper]

Wow

[winter marsh]

it ate everyone

I dont think any terrestrial creature is piscivorous only. Theyll always go for something else when they have the chance to

[sly viper]

Ty pal

[white matrix]

so fully grown would just be this with higher spine and bulkier?

[low raven]

Rex wouldn’t have snake eyes either

[winter marsh]

and that

[balmy oyster]

Not even all snakes have “snake eyes”

[white matrix]

@hallow spear

[winter marsh]

big back dorito

[ancient crystal]

Great idea, love it, wrong chat though

[naive smelt]

I know let me delete it

[fluid inlet]

Are marine reptiles not from that linage of Archosaurs ?

[ancient crystal]

No I don't believe so

[fluid inlet]

Interesting the word Archosauromorphs threw me off

[full lagoon]

The closest marine reptiles to archosaurs are the other archelosaurs (turtles and plesiosaurs) and they are a sister group I believe

So technically a plesiosaur and turtle are more similar to dinosaurs than an itchyosaur or mosasaur

[compact leaf]

turtles are notorious for floating around phylogenetically but them and plesiosaurs are currently closer to archosaurs yeah

[lime surge]

What set of genius do yall know of besides dromeosaurs theropods sauropods and like all the already known ones or super common

[warped peak]

I got it

Amphicyonids

[lime surge]

Pretty cool looking

[fluid inlet]

Not a Dinosaurs lagosuchus

[frigid delta]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE FOUND A REX BLOOD CELLS/VESSELS???
https://www.science.org/content/article/tyrannosaurus-blood-vessels-found

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/rexy-gif-8530837518675768819

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/tm9380/status/1966237299961930010?s=46 ya buddy

Taylor McCoy 🦖 (@TM9380)

A new species of large Triassic theropod was just announced: Newtonsaurus cambrensis. Its holotype is an unusual fossil, the preserved impression of a dentary that suggests an animal 5-7 meters long. The paper details how they built a digital model off of it. Cool stuff!

X · Sep 11, 2025, 8:27 PM

5-7 meters Triassic theropod 😎

[sharp dragon]

It really is just a looney-tunes hole where a jaw was, how funny.

[sick gull]

iirc they found the remnants of those. not actual soft tissue or cells

[coral forge]

anyone know any good depictions of sparsely feathered deinocheirus?

[solemn wyvern]

In the game, on the contrary, the spinosaurus's blow is somehow stronger... Strange

[sick gull]

i doubt the sucho would spray water to bite harder on its prey too

but it's a game and things need to be balanced. spino is a higher tier so will do more damage

[native kindle]

ai overview🤢

[dry ibex]

This is a game, not a paleo class. Most of the stuff are different from real life situations, or rather were different.

According to this AI response, Sarco should bite with 100 damage minimum then. Imagine sarcos with 100 damage regular bite.

[shadow current]

Any majungsaurus facts

[fossil ingot]

Its Peak.
Big Specimen Peak too

[undone rapids]

Had really Fastest Tooth replacement rate of any carnivorus dinosaur we know of so far of around 2 months.

Allosaurus and Ceratosaurus seem to be a bit around 3ish months and Rex even longer.

[jagged trellis]

man its almost like spoon is double its size irl and ingame they have the same base damage, just cw difference
also ew ai

[open compass]

Don't use AI..

And game is a game, it's not supposed to be accurate, lambeo can heal itself with it's voice, hatz csn carry dinos which are heavier than itself and etc

[ashen wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/movies-action-gif-16387762389935155241

[solemn wyvern]

Spinosaurus deals 120 damage to Sarcosuchus with a forward charge.

[solemn wyvern]

If it's like you say, why did they create the most stupid and boring ambush gameplay for the sarco? Why aren't all the other dinosaurs tuned to their real gameplay? Why the sarcosuchus is a scapegoat, in three hours of playing ambush yesterday I met only 2 adolescent spinosauruses which I ate,

Several times I was thrown out of the server with the quote: you are disconnected from the server due to inactivity (ahaa, what? I sit motionless, rarely get up to take a breath so that I am not noticed and I am thrown out from the server?

[charred hearth]

i have a hot take

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-hurry-impatient-gif-22696825

[charred hearth]

now your not getting it becuase your mean

[dry ibex]

This has nothing to do with damage numbers. This is a design issue. You may say Sarco is designed poorly after TLC that is acceptable.

[ancient crystal]

: (

[charred hearth]

i will tell you because im a good person

they are a much better example of why creating hybrids is a horrible idea compared to the jw franchise

[ancient crystal]

I never liked the galar fossil pokemon

[charred hearth]

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) + rain

[tough parcel]

My favorite part is this person has done this exact same thing once or twice already and gets the exact same reaction each time

It isn't even fair ragebait anymore, this is the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel

[ancient crystal]

Its not that, I just think they're lazy designs

[ancient crystal]

The second coming of Chat GPT et al.

[charred hearth]

how flexible was basilosaurus?

[visual musk]

This was disgusting

[lost moon]

I don’t like the Galar fossils because I think they make a bit of a mockery of paleontology instead of respecting it like the early fossil pokemon. I love how Omanyte and Kabuto are based on important fossils that aren’t just dinosaurs and I feel like that angle has been lost a little

[opaque kayak]

Cf. Argentinosaurus compared to Sue

[ancient crystal]

Oh that too, they reek of the "we don't actually know anything" mindset

[coral forge]

-# path of titans isn't meant to be 100% realistic because if it was nothing would be balanced

[tough parcel]

Stop giving them attention

We've been over this

[coral forge]

?
I just opened discord and that was the first thing I saw I didnt know there was a discussion mb

[open compass]

Ask in #path-of-titans not here

[charred hearth]

was there even a cretascous artic? like, i know in some places it could snow

[craggy trench]

The Prince Creek at the end of the cretaceous is probably what they are referring to
It did have long periods of darkness similar modern day polar regions and did get cold but snow wouldn't have been that common

[compact leaf]

nemegt would have been cold enough to get snow in places and there’s multiple formations that had a pronounced winter

[charred hearth]

what would the size comparison between nanuq and a moose would be

[compact leaf]

depends on what exactly nanuq is

[white matrix]

wait till they find out nanuq was upscaled

[craggy trench]

also depending on how you scale it
there was a recent paper/going to be paper/theory that put in size range of alberta, dasp, and gorgo

I choose to believe in large nanuq but smaller is possible
there is also some potential new nanuq remains but they havent been studied/assigned yet

[hardy sentinel]

The video talks about the prince creek formation, which was pretty much the cretaceous arctic as it was in the arctic circle

[charred hearth]

moose when they see the giant troodontid who uses high iq strategy of getting a gun:

[hardy sentinel]

Giant Troodontids would probably be able to hunt female moose with relative ease

[charred hearth]

what reason did it have for this size

[hardy sentinel]

it's easier to maintain body temperature at a bigger size

[ancient crystal]

What a strange pachyrhino

[hardy sentinel]

"Arctic mabye troodon"

[hardy sentinel]

people aren't gonna let the fuzzy Pachyrhino idea die unfortunately

Why is this ugly ass Morosaurus where Imperobator should be 🥀

[ancient crystal]

Its not just fuzzy, its got whiskers and legs that look more at home on a theropod than a ceratopsian

[stiff osprey]

at least it isn't elephant legs

[ancient crystal]

Idk, I feel like I'd prefer the elephant legs

[hardy sentinel]

i'd prefer speculative stuff that is heavily unlikely over inaccurate legs

[ancient crystal]

Man, I was looking up images of pachyrhinosaurus and this was one of the first things to come up

[hardy sentinel]

I daresay I found something worse

[ancient crystal]

Is there a way to filter out ai images on google?

[ancient crystal]

I like how the first two images are perfectly reasonable reconstructions and then it goes right off the deep end

[static widget]

But he's kinda beautiful...

[hardy sentinel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/605788102975291414/1371974035352715374/image0.gif

[ancient crystal]

In all honesty, I prefer as little speculative features as possible even at the risk of a bland reconstruction

The only exception being PhP dreadnoughtus

[static widget]

I mean totally fair. I think its fun to go off the deep end

[coral forge]

its front legs look like gorilla arms

[ancient crystal]

FR its like a weird bird monkey lizard

[coral forge]

fluffy deinocheirus...

[hardy sentinel]

I woulda fw the PP Dread design if it had a giant throat sac it inflated instead like a frigate bird

[static widget]

Shrinkwraped deinocheirus hunts my nightmares

[ancient crystal]

Naked deinocheirus

[hardy sentinel]

Imagine this on a building sized animal

[coral forge]

at least its better than carnosaurian deinocheirus
where was duck even plaved in carnosauria? Was it an allosauroid or just a basal carnosaur

[static widget]

But the fuzzy ceratocian is to much? Lol

[ancient crystal]

Better yet, naked therizinosaurus.

Imagine seeing a gross scaley bowling pin with claws hiding amongst the trees

[coral forge]

dinosaur revolution gigantoraptor

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah, because air sacs are a common trait in a lot of animals, fuzz on a clade of scaley animals is not

[coral forge]

I love slim pt theri and utah
something about featherless non avian maniraptorans is so cute idk why

[static widget]

I wouldn't say common, but i would agree moreso

[ancient crystal]

Evil bowling pin

[hardy sentinel]

now THIS is a design I can get behind

[static widget]

Horrifying. It can stay.

[tough parcel]

Just gonna quickly

PP mixed inflatable structures and pouches we see in birds and mixed that with the air sacs, so basically apples and oranges got mixed```

[hardy sentinel]

meant air sac as in throat pouch which can inflate, shoulda been more specific

I think a building sized animal with an inflatable throat pouch would be cool asf

[coral forge]

trunked dilo

[coral forge]

or like how people think camels inflate their stomachs out of their mouths or pelicans curl their spines out of their mouth

[ancient crystal]

People think pelicans what?

[opaque kayak]

Alamofaarus

[hardy sentinel]

I'll do you one better

[ancient crystal]

Plot twist, every crested dinosaur actually had a trunk

Parasaurolophus had a backward trunk

[coral forge]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdgaSRys/

[hardy sentinel]

Guys i'm gonna upload this to tiktok and say "what if?" and start another dinosaur misconception war

It's gonna be spinosaurus hump all over again

[coral forge]

Dilophosaurus Wherepixelli

[ancient crystal]

Oh well that's just stupid people not using their eyes correctly then

[coral forge]

pretty sure its an organ to cool themselves down or something

[charred hearth]

was yuanno the last pro-sauropod to live?

[hardy sentinel]

What if?

[craggy trench]

you've gone mad with power spicy

[coral forge]

isn't that just charonosaurus

[coral forge]

lishulong and seitaad lived a tiny bit later

[charred hearth]

did any reach mid jurassic or just early?

[ancient crystal]

Imagine a cretaceous prosauropod gets discovered, that would be funny.

[charred hearth]

i hope

whos in the running for largest prosauropod, lingsulong , yuanno or plateo?

lufengosaurus*

[ancient crystal]

Iirc its P. trossingensis, but I could be wrong

[coral forge]

180mya is the latest afaik so still 5 million short of mid triassic

[coral forge]

abelisaurs are actually prosauropods

[undone rapids]

iirc there was actually a Theory that abelisaurs evolved from Herbivorous Theropods due to them having small arms and other neck stuff iirc.

[ancient crystal]

Are there any groups of animals where there's a huge gap in the fossil record between their most recent species and the rest of them?

[timid adder]

Man, I will never understand how they can piece together a whole dinosaur from so few bones.

[charred hearth]

relatives ❤️

[ancient crystal]

Better than Paleoloxodon

[balmy oyster]

Funny enough this is more like the ceratopsian hump issue more than spino issue and is also more believable than both so good lord

[coral forge]

pretty sure there's a 100+ million year gap between the 2 extant species of Asian horseshoe crab and the 2 extinct ones

[balmy oyster]

Stegosaurs are notable for having a pretty considerable sized ghost lineage, but were slowly starting to find more Cretaceous stegosaurs that are patching up the holes

Another one is triceratopsins, since if titanoceratops does end up being a triceratopsin, then it would’ve had a decently sized ghost lineage from the late Campanian to late maastrichtian

iirc cats & sharks also had ghost lineages too, especially sharks, but I forgot how long & the specific timeframes

[fluid inlet]

I am not a dinosaur bud

[tender needle]

💀

[ancient crystal]

Behold!

[balmy oyster]

Fortunately everyone can take solace in knowing this is biologically both incapable and unbeneficial for the animal due to how the frill always curves & is positioned

Only humpback spino’s & dilo’s here

[ancient crystal]

That assumes logic is something most paleofans possess

[hallow spear]

The source is Michael Paul Taylor, contact him if you want info on it. It was sourced from something he worked on in 2013 or 2010 from the YPM collections. As you will find in a punch of papers, citing sources such as “per comms., Michael P. Taylor” would be a valid citation even if the material isn’t explicitly published @bronze pendant

[coral forge]

Cretaceous stegosaurs??

[ancient crystal]

Wuerhosaurus is one

[balmy oyster]

You’d be surprised by how many there are

[coral forge]

I thought they all died at the end of the jurassic 💔
are there many popular ones?

[kindred night]

Paleontologist here. Can confirm that Stego is correct with per comms.

[hallow spear]

Thanks Nathan!

[charred hearth]

whats it like being a paleontologist

[hallow spear]

Dull because he works on mid animals of course

[ancient crystal]

You could say its a pretty rocky career

[covert lintel]

i heard there's bones

[hallow spear]

Mammalians have nothing on ornithischians smh

[balmy oyster]

As venator said, wuerhosaurus is the most popular one

Most are fragmentary and known from scrappy remains, but I do believe there is a super complete one that needs to be described

[kindred night]

It has its moments. Lot of teaching and reading. Still cool job if underpaid.

[hallow spear]

This is true, and if you were curious about them fishy can link my stegosaur database (which needs some updates but it’s good enough)

[kindred night]

mammalian

Alright bozo

[bronze pendant]

@white matrix
Ok. In regards to Michael P. Taylor, I still confirm YPM 1388 is an incomplete dorsal plate. It has been measured, it has been published, photos do exist.

If Mr. Taylor has ever seen it, or measured it, is irrelevant here.

If Mr. Taylor has measured an unpublished, unphotographed, corroborated Stegosaurid tibia . . . I don't know?

But I welcome anyone to share here, I'll read it 👍

[coral forge]

Wikipedia says potential Maastrichtian and hettangian stegosaurs but like its Wikipedia so idk if I believe it

[balmy oyster]

Wikipedia when it comes to paleo stuff is surprisingly really well managed (most of the time) and has a lot of trustworthy sources linked

[coral forge]

Wikipedia says cryo is a megalosauroid

[balmy oyster]

This is why it’s important to check your sources folks

[covert lintel]

it does not? what?

[hallow spear]

It may also have a dorsal plate belonging to it. But it’s a tibia

[kindred night]

I will tell you right now you really cannot rely on what's figured and described in the literature. For a lot of my work I've had to travel and take all of my own photos and measurements because even something as important as a holotype specimen will be a sentence or two, at most a paragraph.

[hallow spear]

And frankly speaking I’ve seen sauropod femoras mistaken as dorsal plates from stegosaurs too lol

[coral forge]

last I checked it also says macronaria is outside sauropoda lol

[covert lintel]

wikipedia may not be a uniformly reliable and up-to-date resource, it's good to double-check where it gets its sources from and take things with a grain of salt... but it's pretty decent most of the time

[hallow spear]

Also keep in mind ascension number is not the same as specimen number

[bronze pendant]

Show me 👍

@kindred night I get it, I did field research for 20 years.

[hallow spear]

If I could, I would. Contact Michael lol.

Could you show me the source of it being a dorsal plate?

[bronze pendant]

You ask now when I've closed the page out 🤣

Yeah, give me a minute . . .

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225101267_Internal_vascularity_of_the_dermal_plates_of_Stegosaurus_Ornithischia_Thyreophora

[coral forge]

its good as a source of sources or a quick refresher but you definitely shouldn't be using it as your first/only source

I do think schools really exaggerate how unreliable it is though

[hallow spear]

This is the ascension number not the unique specimen catalogue number

[bronze pendant]

Correct.

But here's our problem. You can't give me literature on a specimen YPM 1388, because you say it only exists in someone's head. So I'm left to find evidence that might explain your confusion.

[hallow spear]

I’m not confused and that’s quite rude to say, I’ve been nothing but polite yet to respond like this?

[fluid inlet]

Kailani has actually held their own quite well in this debate/discussion.

[hallow spear]

Well when there’s an ascension number the same as a specimen number (which has happened before in stegosaurus) confusion of the specimens tend to happen, I’ll contact Michael for more clarity

[bronze pendant]

Please take no offense, as non is intended.

Here's the thing: I've written papers myself. All on snakes weirdly enough, when I was mostly involved in Crocodiles 🤔

But I cannot claim a fact on my field observations only. I have a hypothesis based on evidence. When I'm published, and other researches can test my hypothesis, I may have a theory if I haven't been proven wrong . . . yet.

The conversation started when it was suggested Stego should be upsized based on Mr. Taylor's word, I guess 🤷‍♂️
But that isn't science. If true, what Mr. (or Doctor) Taylor has is an interesting hypothesis. But we don't know yet until he shares his work and the rest of us can determine for ourselves 👍

[outer tusk]

WHO IS THIS GUY

[fluid inlet]

Says his name right there

[hallow spear]

Or… there’s just a dorsal plate as well as a tibia because there’s no way to measure something to such a different extent lol, because if you see here this is the accession number

[bronze pendant]

There may be a tibia, I'm not saying there absolutely isn't. I am saying I find no evidence for it, and I'm patiently waiting for someone in Paleo here to show me 👍

[charred hearth]

wait until he shows up, he got this

[hallow spear]

I’ll contact Michael and ask him, but might be a bit until a response is given

[bronze pendant]

Please tell me Dr. Michael P. Taylor is on this chat 💪

Yeah, just @bronze pendant when you get the chance 🍻

[charred hearth]

what started this btw

[hallow spear]

I don’t think he is

[bronze pendant]

Well, I'm going to continue to Iggy-up. You find anything, let me know 🍻

[ionic crescent]

@white matrix @merry jewel 7 m long, accounting keratin, 5.8 tones

Going full bone a tad less, 5.6

Eotriceratops, btw

[wind prairie]

bro after seeing wuerhosaurus in my childrens' books I could never forget

[fossil ingot]

Thats Eo

[fossil ingot]

Bro is Heavier than a Trike of the same Length☠️
Given a Trike thats 7m Along the Centra is 5t Flat

[ionic crescent]

yes forgot to name

They were previously in backer arguing about current Eo weight,

[fossil ingot]

5.6-5.8t is quite heavy for it been 7m.
Guessing is due to Horns and Frill
Cause a 7m Trike is 5t Flat
Prob without Horn and Frill

[ionic crescent]

+6 tons (one sec sent wrong img!)

[fossil ingot]

Agathaumas Jumpscare

[ionic crescent]

worth noting that Eo has a thinnier head in comparison to Trike, so that may sum up

[fossil ingot]

6.2t at only 7m tho..
Seems quite Heavy next to the Chart Random made
However Idk if this Chart Tales Frill and Horn into account or if they would add THAT Much
Wait
Is the 6.2t Trike?

[fluid inlet]

There is neck material of Eotriceratops ?

[ionic crescent]

May it be due to new proportions RandomDinos dropped a while ago, i'm using a previous build

however that would basically mean both Eo and Trike being lighter in general, probably going under 5.5 for Eo

@fluid inlet We only have few vertebraes for Eo, which allows us to say "it's trike but bobblehead"

[fossil ingot]

Kinda

[fossil ingot]

Random used this Dorsal for his Trike.
Which Resulted in 7.3-7.6t without Horn for and Frill for Maximus in a GDI
Which is the Trike used in his skeletal

Which is quite a Big guy

[fluid inlet]

He’s so thick

[ionic crescent]

That's extremely thin for Triceratops, they are BARRELS

this is what i get with a 7 m long MOR-1122 with updated trike proportions

[fossil ingot]

I do know the Drumheller Pachyrino Specimen is about 4.5t and 7m(based on what Stego and Table have Mentioned)
Eo is the same length but should be heavier

[ionic crescent]

Dorsal view for trike

They are wider than that

[fluid inlet]

He’s so thick but not impressive compared to Willard

[fossil ingot]

Torosaurus my Beloved.
Also Random is the one that used the Dorsal which tbh looks like Demphy's but slightly edited(and he still got around 7.3-7.6t for a 7.9m Trike so def not thin)
You can likely ask him

[ionic crescent]

I was asking him when I was fixing toro proportions LOL

[ancient crystal]

I don't believe in 11 ton Willard and nothing anyone can say will change my mind

[fossil ingot]

Willard is undescribed smh
But was said to be 8.5m.iirc when Ibrahim did a Meeting for it
Wether its 8.5m straight line or Along the Centra is unknown

[ionic crescent]

hehe, 13 ton willard

[fossil ingot]

Did he answer?
Cause thats the Dorsal he used for his Trikes

[fluid inlet]

Described or not even Ray Charles can tell he’s an impressive specimen.

[bronze pendant]

I'd give a kidney for a bag of popcorn and go back in time to watch those two interact 💪

[fluid inlet]

That’s your own personal problem.

[ionic crescent]

Let's ask him

@stiff osprey Oi boss! just wondering, was there any reason the trike weights you estimated used this "thin" instead of the classic barrel boi?

[fossil ingot]

He LOOKS impressive
But his Measuremnts are a Mess
And it been undescribed doesn't Help

[stiff osprey]

it is Dempsey's trike dorsal, yeah

[fossil ingot]

Yeah, no wonder they looked familiar

[ionic crescent]

What I mainly mean is, is likely that depending on the upview used for recon to get extremely dispar weights? Using the barrel trike I get for a 7 m trike around 6 and extra ton instead 5

[fossil ingot]

Actually idk if this is it...
Actually nvm they look the same, demphys just shows front limbs lol

[rancid dove]

cretodus(max size) and Kronosaurus maybe?

[fluid inlet]

Darius Nau says these numbers are not impressive. It’s undignified.

[fossil ingot]

We know Willard is Big
But been Undescribed is not Helpful

[fluid inlet]

Big Willard the king of the Cretaceous

[ancient crystal]

Do we know how Willard died?

[white matrix]

let me know too, despite searching collections for an hour i cant find a 84.5 cm tibia

[hallow spear]

Unfortunately not all specimens are represented in the respective collections, it could have also by now belong to a different specimen catalogue number but I will

Plus even if the tibia does end up being a plate, there’s still multiple other large specimens based on other remains like the 610mm radius

[stiff osprey]

if there is a big difference in dorsal views there will be a big difference in mass, of course

[hallow spear]

GSPs trike dorsal isn’t too far off dempseys from what I recall

[fossil ingot]

Thats Echoes of Extinctiom Eocarcharia no?

[stiff osprey]

ARK if it looked good

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/1967176663050887416

Nature is Amazing ☘️ (@AMAZlNGNATURE)

A Pigeon Trying To Court A Falcon

X · Sep 14, 2025, 10:40 AM

[river plinth]

Trikes are really just giant tapers with a beak and horns huh

[hallow spear]

Also dempseys trike isn’t thin, it just looks it, it’s still over a meter wide lol

[hardy sentinel]

Says who

[fluid inlet]

Yep. I love that they are going with paleo accuracy ( yes I know about everything going on with eocarcharia)

[white matrix]

legit scaling every tibia i find rn

[hallow spear]

You don’t have to lol I’ll just contact Michael n get more info

[white matrix]

all around 40-60, gotta keep looking

nah i gotta keep looking

bro i didn't know people sold sold fossils in this amount... im seeing so many fossils for sale. god i hate the united states, wish it were illegal

[ionic crescent]

i'll try to get later Dempsey's proportions weight vs GSP one

[hallow spear]

Random did a version for both just ask for the alternate one

[fluid inlet]

We hate you too. Also the United States isn’t the only place selling fossils lol

[paper parcel]

we need this guy back bro

[ionic crescent]

A (i didn't know cause people kept posing the other one)

[hallow spear]

That’s cause dempseys is better, but yeah he did do an alternate version which used GSPs

[ionic crescent]

how so? I thought dempseys had some minor proportion issues

[full lagoon]

Isn't this thought to be maraapunisaurus now? It was also massive but with likely less typical proportions

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-seinfeld-truth-buddy-kramer-gif-23789643

[hallow spear]

No? Dempseys trike is a composite (like most trikes are) but it’s still a very good reference, I’d say if it does have issues it’s the egregious amount of cartilage he gives the vertabrae

I cannot recall any proportional issues though aside from perhaps head to body ratio? But that’s just a guess

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/lotr-you-bow-to-noone-aragorn-kneeling-hobbits-gif-22721932

[hallow spear]

I mean he’s right technically it’s unverifiable

[opaque kayak]

This looks like sach

[fluid inlet]

Imagine what Willard would do to even the heaviest stegosaurus. It would be a slaughter

[balmy oyster]

Kid named meter long thagomizers

[paper parcel]

Amphicoelias is real, hes just too big for the scientists to comprehend with the human mind

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-real-true-scientific-fact-fact-gif-17849175

[balmy oyster]

No he changed his name (and species)

Dude’s now maraapunisaurus, which is even more absurd because what do you mean there was a random gigantic jurassic rebbachisaur

[full lagoon]

belongs to the same animal, just looks different than we thought and gave it a new name, so it technically is the same thing

[balmy oyster]

But not a diplodocid tho

[fluid inlet]

Tf is a kookaburra

[balmy oyster]

Australian bird. Pretty friendly surprisingly

[tight kettle]

Hey there, just a reminder to please keep the topic of discussion for the channel related to paleontology. Alongside this, please be polite to other members of the community. Refer to our #rules.

[opaque kayak]

Largest of both species (excluded the undescribed one)

[fluid inlet]

Interesting looking fella

[severe yew]

don't worry, i got you bro!

https://tenor.com/view/хищник-фильм-1987-фантастика-арнольд-шварценеггер-gif-12785727221801164722

[white matrix]

@hallow spear this is 200 cm shant femur all over again

[hallow spear]

I mean not really tbh

[ionic crescent]

Noted, i thought Dempsey's had some issue with trike proportions or anything, maybe i'm thinking of another depiction of his

[hallow spear]

Do you mean his prorsus one? Because I’m pretty sure that one might

[covert lintel]

if i'm thinking of the right one, his t. prorsus is a bit old, so i wouldn't be shocked

[white matrix]

using 84.5 cm tibia that would scale to 146.5 femur right?

[hallow spear]

Depends on what you use whether it’s ungulatus specimens or Stenops specimens

[white matrix]

i think it would be bigger for ungulatus

[hallow spear]

Assuming the proportions of USNM 4934 it gets at minimum 1.3m femora
Assuming USNM 4936 proportions it gets 1.38m
Assuming YPM 1858 proportions it’s 1.46m

And when I get back I will check what it is with DNMH proportions

[ionic crescent]

probably

[hazy basalt]

It’s also that weird bird you hear in background of every jungle scene in a movie ever.

https://youtu.be/7jW7A2glZbk?si=y5A1iuStKkPnEvUa

[white matrix]

im finding a lot of limb bones assigned to stegosaurus duplex, wth is that?

[hallow spear]

Lumped to ungulatus, it’s the species to the type specimen YPM 1858

[white matrix]

there is a mention of a plate and limb bone with some teeth but no photos
GRRRRR
i wonder if its 1388

[hallow spear]

Link?

[white matrix]

gotta look for it but i found this https://collections.peabody.yale.edu/search/Record/YPM-VP-057501

https://collections.peabody.yale.edu/search/Record/YPM-VP-057502
pretty sure these 2 were found together

[winter marsh]

there are also loons which uh, loon

[white matrix]

https://collections.peabody.yale.edu/search/Record/YPM-VP-001850 is armatus stenops or ungulatus ?

[hallow spear]

Armatus can be both technically

[white matrix]

this is the only tibia that doesnt list a measurement that i found, all others were under 60

apex has a 68 cm tibia?

[hallow spear]

Apex doesn’t have a tibia preserved (Tmk) but I measured it at at least 700mm on the mount

[white matrix]

please make this Michael Paul Taylo guy respond faster

[white matrix]

Fixed sophie

[frigid delta]

what is Rhomaleosaurus most up-to-date length and weight as for today?

is 6-7 meters long & 1-1.5 tons Rhomaleo reliable?

[white matrix]

@hallow spear full grown vs sophie. thoughts?

[winter marsh]

I think its tail is too short but I might be wrong

[fluid inlet]

Yeah might be, lagosuchus got a long tail.

Bottom one is lagosuchus skeletal.

[wind prairie]

thought this was david peters for a moment

[white matrix]

bro this stego is 10 tons and 8.2 meters 💀

[hallow spear]

You didn’t base the dorsal view on anything though did you

[white matrix]

dorsal view?

[hallow spear]

View from above

[tough parcel]

Lol

[white matrix]

used this

[hallow spear]

Was it scaled to the other reference or did you eyeball it

[white matrix]

the one you sent? yeah

used this and then made edits to make it "full grown"

[white matrix]

how long is sophie again? 5.6?

@hallow spear i got 2.5 tons for sophie

[ancient crystal]

We'll all be David Peters, sooner or later

[white matrix]

i got 4.4 using the holotype

sophie 2.5-3.2 tons
holoytype 4.4 tons
ypm 1388 10 tons

[outer tusk]

@hallow spear how is this gigantospinosaurus wrong answers only

[white matrix]

used a density of 1

[hallow spear]

Density should be 1.08, and also I wouldn’t advise listing the mass estimates especially not with a full dorsal aligned

[white matrix]

im confused, wdym

[white matrix]

not that far off, tail isnt straight in this ref either

[patent mist]

Going to mention this since I also use volume calc for mass. I strongly advise against using models made of multiple segments for this. The points where the objects intersect add additional volume and can throw off your results.

[white matrix]

used a boolean, ill try to shrinkwrap it and make a mesh out of it just to be safe

[patent mist]

Fair enough, never thought of that

[white matrix]

yeah how i always make models i use sphere instead of cubes as it gives better volume. muscles are round

combine them and then use mesh

my bad i messed it up, boolean didnt set correctly

[winter marsh]

the very large horns located between its thighs

[white matrix]

@patent mist do you know how to set density? its using 1 instead of 1.08

wait cant I just multiply my mass by 1.08 to get the same result?

[charred hearth]

who's more screwed, the deinosuchus or alamosaurus?

[ancient crystal]

The alamosaurus I'd say

That's a pretty awful place to have a giant alligator

[charred hearth]

i mean, if the deinosuchus dosent let go , its probably gonna have a bad drop or a few slams

[ancient crystal]

Well, in reality, the alamo wouldn't be able to lift its neck with a deinosuchus attached

[fluid inlet]

Neither

[white matrix]

@hallow spear okay fixed it
3.75 tons for the holotype using 6.2
2.24 tons for Sophie using 5.6 meters
8.7 tons for ypm 1388 using 8.2 meters
4.95 tons for Apex using 6.8 meters

this is with plates btw

[charred hearth]

would a cheetah be able to catch a struthimimus or would it out stam or even outrun it?

[ancient crystal]

Struthi would outstam a cheetah, practically everything can outstam a cheetah.

In terms of pure speed, I imagine a cheetah would probably be faster.

[fluid inlet]

💔

[charred hearth]

do we know how good the turn rate of ornithomids are?

[ancient crystal]

Probably, but I don't

[fossil ingot]

How did you got Stego heavier

[white matrix]

used these combined with the holotype to get a good look at what a fully grown stego would've been

[thorn grove]

speaking of stego do we have a good idea of its average size?

[white matrix]

looking at this between the holotype and Apex would be average, both are adults

wait so is ypm 1388 8.2 or 8.3 cause im seeing both

[thorn grove]

what actually is ypm 1388

like in terms of material

[white matrix]

845mm tibia

[thorn grove]

ok thank you

a tibia is much better than some fragmentary specimens lol

[fossil ingot]

Wasn't the "newer" stuff kinda meant to get Stego Lighter

[outer tusk]

Isn't the infomation not even public yet?

[white matrix]

I dont think so, well apex hasn't been described so i had to go with this

[wind prairie]

dread it, run from it... David arrives all the same

[charred hearth]

jack horner son or david peters son

[merry jewel]

Late to the party, but noted hm...quite interesting guess eo is indeed not that wild

[fluid inlet]

Yeah buddy.

[hardy sentinel]

David Peters Son, I can respect some good rage bait

[frigid delta]

hey

[balmy oyster]

jack horner internet troll
david peters god tier ragebaiter

[ancient crystal]

Well, I'm sure there is substance abuse behind at least a little of what Peters says

But then again. Jack Horner married his 19 year old student, so this feels like a lose-lose situation even relatively speaking

[lime surge]

Best abelisaur is carnotaurus
What species is the most well known of carnotaurus ? Just carnotaurus? Or is it carnotaurus then something else? Like spinosaurus aegyptiacus

[balmy oyster]

David peters also hasn’t spent half his life trying to tarnish the reputation of a singular animal because of a personal gripe

Yes his reconstructions are…bizarre, but I don’t think he’s trying to “ruin” anything

[slim nacelle]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/13/science/earth/mark-norell-dead.html

[coral forge]

theres only 1 species, carnotaurus sastrei, which is known from a single mostly complete skeleton

[lime surge]

Dope

[ancient crystal]

That's fair, though I will always wonder what drove him to be the way that he is.

These are not the creations of a healthy mind

[slim nacelle]

That's why cheetahs mostly need a pack to hunt something bigger than them, 2 usually is enough to chase and corner 1 that could outstam them. However they likely will go after younger struthi or other smaller prey. Fighting a big one with weapons at its legs is suicidal for them.

[undone rapids]

Yeah probably would go similar to an ostrict hunt, get a group of 2 or 3 then just ambush it

[coral forge]

cheetahs hunt things larger than them while alone

[slim nacelle]

Can too, seen them took gazelles down

[coral forge]

yeah, gazelles and impalas are larger than them

[undone rapids]

Cheetahs hunt alot of stuff

[slim nacelle]

Some gone ballistic and chased giraffes

[undone rapids]

There's a few vids of them trying to seperate Giraffe adults and juvis iirc

[coral forge]

imagine them hunting giraffes like the maips from amazing dinoworld hunted the puertasaurus

[ancient crystal]

Still the greatest scene in the history of dinosaur documentaries

[glossy valley]

How did long-necked sauropods like Giraffatitan drink water?

[paper parcel]

My mind

[frigid delta]

last time i remember, submerging their mouths and uses its necks like a giant syphon to draw water up to their throats

[glossy valley]

Yes, but they would have to bend down and tilt their necks.

[glossy valley]

I had even found some speculation:

Some calculations by paleontologists suggest that a Giraffatitan would need a heart weighing over 300 kg, capable of generating pressures much higher than those of any living animal today. It might not have been just a hypertrophied heart, but also a system of valves in the neck arteries to prevent "backflow" when the head lowered.

[hallow spear]

Perhaps yes, but non of it is available yet so

[visual fog]

Guys whats ur opinion on zhuchengtyrannus

[undone rapids]

It might be a dinosaur

[outer tusk]

Cool,Asian Tyrannosaur

[paper parcel]

Imagine seeing Barosaurus in the background watching you from the trees

Artist is BooWalu

[sharp dragon]

Strork.

[river condor]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02724634.2025.2536844?needAccess=true
Yo can someone give me the full article

It sucks that science papers need to be paywalled, knowledge should be free

[ancient crystal]

Tmk its not a decision the authors get to make

[native kindle]

they also don't get to eat otherwise

[river condor]

Ik that, still shucks

Thats why i said they need, i know the authors wouldve loved to distribute knowledge for free, but as the person above said, they need to eat

[sudden wind]

Researchers agree with you, don't worry

Oh, it is the Judith river Ornithomimosaur

[potent bobcat]

In an alternate universe, David Peters is a well-liked paleoartist known for outlandish speculative reconstructions, based on modern animals.

[white matrix]

do we measure dinos using the purple lime or blue line? im confused

[undone rapids]

Blue

[native kindle]

for height its the red line iirc

[tough parcel]

I've no clue if you are aware of Peter's ~1980-90s career, but that's quite literally what he used to be known for

These are his from ~1996

[undone rapids]

Its more consistent, purple line or straight line length can change depending on pose of the animal. Blue is "Along the Centra" length

[outer tusk]

W David Peters

He's my idol fr ❤️

[tough parcel]

The website I yoinked this from gives an ambiguous dating of "80s" but you can already see his pterosaur shenanigans emerging in the background Quetzalcoatlus

[outer tusk]

Is this like detail good or should I add anything?

[balmy oyster]

Always blue for length & red for height

[white matrix]

dang I guess i gotta redo these

Sophie might get under 2 tons💀

[fossil ingot]

[fluid inlet]

Matt Dempsey wouldn’t deal with disrespectful size estimations like this.

[coral forge]

blue for length red for height because theyre the only ones that remain constant regardless of posture

[white matrix]

but doesn't posture also affect mass?

[white matrix]

for example if I made the ribs super crushed compared to them spread out

[hallow spear]

No

[full lagoon]

Dosent affect mass at all, you are probably thinking of density in some regard

[white matrix]

oh, I understand

[full lagoon]

It's all the same material so the total weight (mass) will be the same

[hallow spear]

It does matter, depending how they are crushed

[undone rapids]

But that wouldn't really be a posture difference, right? That'd be a reconstruction difference, no?

[full lagoon]

How so if it's the same composite weight? (assuming that all the material is there)

[hallow spear]

Because most mass is dependant on rib width which is prone to distortion

[full lagoon]

Oh I see what you mean, in the context of actually determining the full animal. (I was thinking literally about the rib material)

[coral forge]

if i lean forwards or stand on my toes I dont suddenly become heavier do I?

[white matrix]

no

[hallow spear]

I think he might mean rib articulation which does matter

[coral forge]

but then again that makes me wonder how they got 8 ton acro off a museum mount

[balmy oyster]

Deeper torso due to a weirdly big pubis

[coral forge]

a slightly bigger torso adds 2 tons?

[balmy oyster]

Tbf 8 tons is also assuming more soft tissue covering the back

Having less with the deeper torso gets around 7t, which is still about a ton more than previous max estimates

[coral forge]

are there any pictures of it?

[trim bluff]

Quick Ceratosaurus question: Are the specimens for C. denisulcatus and C. magnicornis still considered two separate specimens, or are they considered age stages for C. nasicornis?

[balmy oyster]

There’s an entire skeletal of it in the Dempsey weight paper

[fluid inlet]

Love 8 ton acro.

[hallow spear]

The base reference is also publically available from bates

[balmy oyster]

At least dempsey’s paper makes more logical sense than most of cau’s baharia paper

[undone rapids]

The 2nd one I'm pretty sure.

[coral forge]

Could you link the paper? I cant find it

[balmy oyster]

Variation/age stages, I forgot if Nasicornis or dentisulcatus was the valid one but they’re the same thing as of currently regardless

[undone rapids]

Nasi was the valid one since it was the first one iirc

[balmy oyster]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/brv.70026

[coral forge]

oh he's the 56 ton apato guy

[balmy oyster]

yea lol

[white matrix]

bro why is there a guy going around saying deinocheirus is 8 tons

[balmy oyster]

Based on old gdi estimates, before people realized the hips weren’t as wide

[wind prairie]

as long as it's ironic yeah
unironically though to choose between them, Horner 1000%

[balmy oyster]

I’m still picking David peters.
Silly pterosaurs and nonsense phylogeny is better than spending your every breath hating on one of the most important pieces of paleontological history because you were salty you didn’t find any edmontosaur remains.

[ancient crystal]

I agree, but at the same time, trying to rewrite the phylogenetic tree in some either drug or mental illness induced psychosis is pretty bad

[tough parcel]

If you believe it was a "social experiment" despite that being said once after years of active support for "T. rex strict scavenger" then you're a lil too hopeful in Horner

[wind prairie]

I mean he didn't say that specifically, but I believe I remember him saying that it was just way to get people to "think about science objectively" or whatever

[ancient crystal]

Wasn't he also quite recently interviewed where he was still on scavenger rex

[tough parcel]

IIRC he's being much more careful with his wording now and it's smth like "Opportunistic hunter"

[wind prairie]

yeah... idk wth his deal is
a silly old man

[fluid inlet]

Which pterosaur can I use to recreate this with a reasonable sized theropod maybe a dromaeosaur , it would probably go at?

[tough parcel]

Like I dunno about you but him labeling it as a social experiment reeks of "Jk jk guys, I only said it as a joke, why aren't you laughing haha"

[ancient crystal]

Also, if it was a social experiment, he could've stopped years ago when it became apparent people weren't thinking about science objectively and just taking him at his word

[wind prairie]

yeah idk where his mind is at because I'm certain he did say at some point that it was kinda just to get people to think differently rather than him actually believing it, but then now afterwards he still pushes it like he always has. Idk.

[sullen swallow]

@stiff osprey @native kindle @wind prairie @ancient crystal The topic regarding personal information about palaeontologists is inappropriate for this server, and is off-topic. Please ensure that you are following our #rules when posting in this server, and move this topic to DMs going forward, thank you!

[wind prairie]

wait it's offtopic to talk about a paleontologist??..
it's called the paleontology channel. I would think any discussion related to a paleontologist is on topic but it's fine

[sullen swallow]

Yes, the personal life or personal information regarding a palaeontologist is not related to the topic of palaeontology and is considered off-topic!

[wind prairie]

we were talking about his scavenger rex theory, that's a paleontological theory
I just don't get it?? what about that is offtopic to the paleontology channel??
Whatever. It'll wash over me. Not really something I'm interested in talking about anyway

[native kindle]

they're not talking about that part

[coral forge]

dsungaripterus and austroraptor would be pretty cool
bickering over a fish or smth

[ancient crystal]

The marriage part

[wind prairie]

the marriage thing we only mentioned in passing, the topic of discussion was scavenger rex theory
but it's fine. I'm done.

[fluid inlet]

Never heard of dsungaripterus sounds interesting I’ll give it a look

[ancient crystal]

Is a cool pterosaur

[wind prairie]

what do you guys think about unenlagiine/unenlagiid phylogeny

[fluid inlet]

Indeed looks cool

[coral forge]

are you birds or not make up your mind 💔

[ancient crystal]

Also, I think it was someone here, photoshopped its head onto a theropod and for a while it was the first image that came up when you looked up dsungaripterus

[wind prairie]

lol??
yeah pterosaurs have weird heads in general tbh

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/serpenillus/status/1254449074859839494?s=46

this guy has always been top tier

Gabriel N. U. (@SerpenIllus)

Just finished this quick gouache portrait of the Early Cretaceous Chinese Pterosaur Dsungaripterus weii with my old dry gouache paints. #paleoart #sciart #pterosaurs

X · Apr 26, 2020, 4:35 PM

[coral forge]

utahraptor and a small azdarchid could work too
like eurazdarcho or smth

[wind prairie]

dsungaripterus is cool because the teeth in the back of their jaws are more pronounced and globe shaped suggesting they hate hard shelled prey

[fluid inlet]

I was trying to reconstruct Shunosaurus just from the skull with no reference and it was hard.

Or maybe I was just thinking too much

[coral forge]

anlylosaurus only feared one predator
and it wasn't t.rex

[ancient crystal]

I can't find the image but I know it was someone in this chat

Or it was in the KTO discord

[hardy sentinel]

This has to be ragebait (now we wait)

[wind prairie]

dude stop we already moved on

[hardy sentinel]

Archaeopteryx amirite

[ancient crystal]

Here's a fun fact: the current groups of jawless fish are younger than the elasmobranchs (sharks, rays, skates)

[charred hearth]

1 - did orca's overlap with livy?

2 - did orca's overlap with meg?

[wind prairie]

I don't think so

[ancient crystal]

Not extant orcas, though the genus Orcinus did exist at the time megalodon was alive.

Not sure about livy.

[charred hearth]

like, very close relatives of orca's or a species of orca that dosent exist anymore>

[ancient crystal]

A species of orca, but nothing that fit the same ecological role

[coral forge]

orca IS a species. The 3 extinct species within the genus orcinus overlapped with meg and livy for like 1 million years but orcinus orca (modern orcas) didnt

also modern orcas are double the size of the orcas from back then so meg and livy existing as the dominant macropredatory apexes is probably why orcas didn't get so big

saying orcas lived with meg because a different species within the genus did is like saying allo europaeus lived with apato because allo fragilis lived with apato

[ancient crystal]

Some people think orcas caused the extinction of megalodon, it is likely the other way around that the extinction of megalodon allowed orcas to exist

[coral forge]

yeah
reddit for some reason is convinced that a pod of orcas would easily beat a megalodon

[wind prairie]

I mean I could see it, depends on the size of the pod though

[coral forge]

orcas only became the apex of the seas because megalodon allowed them to

[coral forge]

large pods of orcas will avoid most large toothed animals
they will never hunt a large sperm whale unless necessary and a meg would be like 3x the size of a sperm whale

not to mention their hunting strategy for large whales wouldn't work on meg because sharks aren't typically known to breathe air

[fluid inlet]

Yeah this is how I reckon it went

[fierce quarry]

Since when do Orcas have existed ?

[fluid inlet]

Well a pod of orcas won’t challenge a bull sperm whale, and orcas wouldn’t have been at the peak of their abilities to where they are at now when megalodon was at its peak.

[charred hearth]

what would you do if he said yes would go

[fierce quarry]

What ?

[coral forge]

the largest orcinus species when megalodon existed vs the smallest orcinus species after megalodon died

[fluid inlet]

Exactly, I’m agreeing with you just in case it isn’t clear.

[wind prairie]

ok tbf I don't think megalodon is that much bigger than a sperm whale
but yeah it figures that orcas would prefer to go after a mysticete either way

[coral forge]

isn't meg like 120t as of 2025?
I haven't seen the paper so im just going off what people have been saying

[fluid inlet]

Whoever said megalodon wasn’t that much bigger than a sperm whale is tripping lol

Bull sperm whales are around 45 -50 Tons that’s a 30 ton difference at the lease

[coral forge]

this one uses the old meg and still gets nearly 130, but they also list sperm whales as 80t so idk how accurate it really is

[fluid inlet]

It’s been consistent around that 40 ton range for male sperm whales

[ancient crystal]

It can be if you still scale off Great Whites, but since that body plan has (for now) fallen out of favor, 90 tons is a better estimate

[ancient crystal]

That's like, the largest sperm whale(s) on record, which could very well be exaggerated.

[coral forge]

arent mako sharks the best ones to scale off now?
either way it's still over double a large sperm whale

[charred hearth]

arent sperms whale consistently larger then livy?

[fluid inlet]

I wouldn’t say it’s double the size of a bull sperm whale

[coral forge]

Google says bull sperm whales are 45t

[charred hearth]

is google that trustable

[ancient crystal]

No, I don't think so. The modern megalodon body plans are much closer to something like a sand tiger shark (which tbf is still a lamniforme) but I don't think they scale megalodon off sand tigers either.

Last time I really looked into it, Great Whites were still the favorite for scaling, but that was early 2024

[wind prairie]

that is assumed for like, the largest of females
and relatively speaking yeah that is not "3x the size of a sperm whale"

[fluid inlet]

30 tons is a huge gap either way you look at it tho.

Also are we comparing for biggest to biggest specimens ?

[ancient crystal]

This is because of mammal bias, and ignores that the way orcas hunt exceptionally large prey starts to fail at such large sizes, especially for a shark.

Orcas like to put sharks into shock, which they already struggle to do with whale sharks which are much smaller than megalodon. And no, I will not consider the reports of 20 meter long whale sharks reliable. For things like that poor blue whale that died recently, the orcas spent many hours trying to drown it and needed a far from natural pod size to achieve such a feat. Problem is, megalodon cannot be drowned nor forced into tonic immobility, so as far as I'm aware orcas don't display any hunting behavior that could theoretically be useful against megalodon.

[wind prairie]

ok it's not because of mammal bias lol
mammal bias is a totally different thing, people only think this because of how good at hunting orcas themselves are

[coral forge]

Yeah, also they have this thing called self preservation where they would rather not attack something 30x their size that could split them in half by accident

[fluid inlet]

“By accident” 💔💔💔💔

[ancient crystal]

Well, a blue whale can kill an orca pretty easily but they still went for one, which is why I think people even entertain this idea at all.

[coral forge]

a blue whale isn't the largest toothed animal ever
(screw 150t maraapunisaurus)

[ancient crystal]

Do you really think people, and especially redditors, think that far into it?

[fluid inlet]

A blue whale doesn’t have the offensive capabilities of a megalodon.

[coral forge]

nope
I had someone on reddit try to say chimpanzees have twice as many species as humans

[charred hearth]

whats the main theme of the convo we're having rn?

[mellow gale]

Couldn’t a tail slap do enough to kill an orca? Do they have the mobility for this?

[coral forge]

orca pod vs megalodon

[fluid inlet]

In theory it can the problem is having the speed to be quick enough to catch a orca coming in which it lacks.

[ancient crystal]

Yes and yes, sharks are pretty well known for being more flexible than other fish or mammals of similar size.

Speed would be the issue, buuuuuut we don't exactly have a good idea of how fast megalodon could be.

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/exactly-jules-beauty-in-black-precisely-indeed-gif-6201153672817857218

[mellow gale]

This makes me curious if Mapusaurus took down Argentinosaurus in a similar fashion to orcas vs blue whales. It’s likely they were pack hunters in groups of 7-9

[coral forge]

that implies mapusaurus can jump and summon water in the air to drown the argent

[fierce quarry]

I mean, would a pod try to bleed it out ? Would they try to go for the fins ? Like nowadays ?

[charred hearth]

dont orca's try to drown larger prey or a m i dumb

[mellow gale]

Well no but similarly this implies they’d try to wear them out through coordinated attacks or scare them off a cliff

[coral forge]

some orcas do have a pretty good understanding of shark anatomy but im not sure if they'd even risk going near a meg

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/true-thats-right-good-point-well-put-jon-taffer-gif-17241629

[fluid inlet]

I think Ichthyotitan vs a pod of orcas is even more interesting because it doesn’t have monster jaws but it has the size and capabilities to fight off a pod.

[ancient crystal]

Also hard to say.

Having now worked personally with sharks in the field, some of them do not like to give blood for anything. If megalodon was at all similar to a sand tiger shark as its current body shape superficially suggests, bleeding it out would be the worst choice a pod could make.

[coral forge]

I like to think they'd just hang around nearby, not actually attacking, just keeping the argent on edge with their presence so it doesnt sleep and gets nervous eating/drinking until it physically cant move anymore

[fluid inlet]

Peak animal right here fellas

[mellow gale]

A meal for that could take days to hunt eh? I wonder if that would be even worth it for them

[coral forge]

its cool ig
not as cool as temnodontosaurus

[coral forge]

some reptiles can go weeks without food regularly
also it can even be observed (very rarely) in modern animals

[fluid inlet]

Temnodontosaurus is pretty based love the new paper about the capabilities of silent hunting but no Ichthyotitan >>> for me.

[ancient crystal]

To illustrate my point, we took 4 blood samples from this jerk, a muscle sample, tagged her, and implanted an acoustic tag.

In all we got less than a milliliter of blood and not a drop went into the ocean

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/jaws-shark-ocean-boat-gif-8425239567259799445

[fluid inlet]

I think we can alll agree tho Ichthyosauria >>>>>>>

[coral forge]

pliosauria > ichthyosauria >, mosasauria

[severe yew]

i got a blood sample of this guy, it was though

[fierce quarry]

Was your boat big enough ? wink wink

[severe yew]

no bro, that thing was a 25 footer

boat too small 😔

we lost a crew member

[fierce quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/press-f-respect-pay-respects-keyboard-egirl-gif-12490772931175630258

[sudden wind]

Sure, a tail slam from a blue whale would kill almost anything that tanks it, but you need to include behavior and ecology into the schemes.

Blue whales are shy animals that avoid conflict with orcas as much as they can. On the other hand, you got Otodus who regularly hunted whales similarly sized to killer whales. I do think that both animals wouldn't have the same response to a group of orca coming in their direction. Also, if you infer on how do Odontocetes react to predators, because yes Otodus/Carcharoclos would be orca's predator, they would mostly mob and try to convince it to leave the area.

[full lagoon]

Blue whales are quite fast and typically rely more on escape like their smaller cousins I'm pretty sure

[sudden wind]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2907.2008.00118.x?casa_token=YqFhwoh6BB0AAAAA%3AJw_GDHMl6wiFrA1MMh5p4SDI7FEgcKW8-0pbihtU_Jlmg7TxtBE0ADzbatOv_djzL4PwC-2nJf1OUw

[wind prairie]

why only pliosaurs
where the rest of the plesiosaurs at??

[covert lintel]

always a little bit amazed by how well-preserved some specimens can be. like, the odds of those tiny little cartilage structures surviving fossilization well enough for this kind of information to be gleaned from 'em... Ough...

[opaque kayak]

94 tons is the absolute maximum specimen for meg

The max for sperm whales and meg are basically about equal

[fluid inlet]

70 to 94 tons is not equal or near equal.

[opaque kayak]

That’s because largest sperm whales are not 70 tons

[fluid inlet]

So give your source

[opaque kayak]

Mccure 2024 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.09.05.610699v3.full

[hallow spear]

No it can get much larger, the actual max estimate is a 24m specimen which is like 127t or something

[opaque kayak]

TBF that 24 meter one is considered probably not valid now 🥀

[hallow spear]

Tmk it isn’t, the methodology yielded a maximum and a minimum, this is normal for that type of study

[opaque kayak]

Ah so it's not actually measured, just the potential size graph for the species

[fluid inlet]

Poor Timmy boy.

[hallow spear]

"In 2021, Victor J. Perez, Ronny M. Leder, and Teddy Badaut proposed a method of estimating total length of megalodon from the sum of the tooth crown widths. Using more complete megalodon dentitions, they reconstructed the dental formula and then made comparisons to living sharks. The researchers noted that the 2002 Shimada crown height equations produce wildly varying results for different teeth belonging to the same shark, casting doubt on some of the conclusions of previous studies using that method. Using the largest tooth available to the authors, GHC 6, with a crown width of 13.3 centimeters (5.2 in), they estimated a total length between 17.4 to 24.2 meters (57 to 79 ft) with a mean of 20.3 meters (67 ft).[10]"
Wikipedia also updated their Megalodon page^
Paper : https://palaeo-electronica.org/content/2021/3284-estimating-lamniform-body-size

Paper by Mikael Siversson that supports the same paper : https://phys.org/news/2021-03-megalodon-evolving-science-size-largest.html

Other papers related to this by the same authors : https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328465547_Body_Length_Estimates_of_Fossil_Lamniform_Sharks_derived_from_Summed_Width_of_Associated_Dentitions

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308891065_SIMPLIFYING_THE_METHODS_-_BODY_LENGTH_ESTIMATES_FOR_CARCHAROCLES_MEGALODON_USING_ASSOCIATED_TOOTH_SETS_AND_JAW_WIDTH_RELATED_DATA_FROM_GREAT_WHITE_SHARKS_AND_MAKOS

and no it’s specifically an estimate for one specimen

[fossil ingot]

Isn't that with Old Meg tho?

[opaque kayak]

Ohh wait, nvm, I confused what you said for sperm whales 😭

[fluid inlet]

Holy Moly. I’d read all this but currently drawing. ✍🏽

[hallow spear]

If you mean elongated meg, that’s just as likely as non elongated meg to my knowledge

[opaque kayak]

But shimada's meg is 94 tons at 24 meters regardless

[hallow spear]

I replied to your message responding to megalodon lol

[fluid inlet]

Forgive bro he hasn’t updated his glasses prescription

[opaque kayak]

Have one

[fossil ingot]

Yeah.
Elongated Meg
Aka
Last Meg, let me get a Pic of it

[fossil ingot]

Long

[opaque kayak]

IRL submarine

[fossil ingot]

Real

[fluid inlet]

Where is founding at

[opaque kayak]

At founding at

[fluid inlet]

Bud changes his name like he changes clothes , either identity crisis or mid life crisis

[charred hearth]

was america the only place affected by the sauropod extinction? because seemingly, everywhere else besides america ( does alamo count since its supposedly from a migration? ) had sauropods in the late cretascous

[wind prairie]

I could be anyone

[charred hearth]

like, everyone was living happily with sauropods besides late creatasous north america before alamo wandered over

[compact leaf]

the other places also seem to have lost most of their sauropod diversity (including a few titanosaur groups) but it was easier for the surviving titanosaur lineages to fill back in

[charred hearth]

did only titanosaurs remain in the late cretascous? i forgot

[balmy oyster]

Somphospondyli as a whole, there's some late cret stuff that aren't titanosaur but they're far in-between

[white matrix]

@hallow spear would stego need a tongue for its type of teeth or no

[charred hearth]

whats the difference between jp dilo the jp: novel dilo?

[fluid inlet]

Yall like the reconstruction of Utahraptors in primitive war ?

[charred hearth]

why is pp rex there

[fluid inlet]

Classified

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/edp-i-mean-its-all-right-gif-26702511

[brave nova]

Pretty sure the novel one is around the size of an irl dilo

[torn bridge]

And no head frills iirc

[charred hearth]

so just a accurate dilo?

[timber kiln]

Basically an accurate dilo but it still had the spit iirc

[hardy sentinel]

wish I could watch it but they went into theaters for a few days where I live, and if you wanna watch it legally it's gotta be on prime in a different country

Guess it's time for 🏴‍☠️

[fossil ingot]

Yes

[frigid delta]

how accurate is Nova's Diplodocus?

[white matrix]

stego

[balmy oyster]

Every single thing you’ve posted from this, game? Has been completely inaccurate

This is the most accurate one I’ve seen and even then it isn’t cus why is it so FAT 😭 but the rest is honestly pretty solid

[frigid delta]

do not call him fat he's trying his best

[warm saddle]

Anyone got a good Y.shangyouensis skeletal? From many angle?

[white matrix]

@warm saddle

[warm saddle]

Thank you

[hardy sentinel]

Saurus

Dontosaurus

[charred hearth]

do we think any dinosaurs would be able to recongize themselves in the mirrors?

[paper parcel]

Yes, because big

[floral ivy]

I have a small hypothesis

[sterile trail]

Why is the tail so stupidly short?

And why do they have elbows

[floral ivy]

It's an outdated skeletal reconstruction so yea that's why

[paper parcel]

Ptilophylum gaming

[floral ivy]

Actually there's a small error in the image
Here's the more correct one

[covert lintel]

i think it's extremely difficult to make any statements about that because A: that's just kind of a very specific thing that's hard to glean from just knowing how their brain's shaped, and B: even modern animals can be surprising with which ones do and don't pass the mirror test, as well as why they don't pass it

as a very extremely broad thing, i think more visually-focused species would have an easier time of it as opposed to ones that rely more on scent or sound for communication and identification

[coral forge]

shouldn't it be the opposite since anodontosaurus means toothless lizard

[fluid inlet]

Love this quetzalcoatlus design

[balmy oyster]

this scaling doesn't look very accurate...

maybe it's fine but those skeletals sure aren't

I think this is better

(left is raja, right is "Lametasaurus")

[coral forge]

has anyone done a tameryraptor skeletal yet?

[sullen cairn]

lametasaurus continues to be the worst thing ever

[undone rapids]

Small Head Raja is really nice

[coral forge]

thanks
what about sauroniops?

[sly viper]

Not related to paleontology but there has been one ant that has been hit exactly with a bolt of lightning what happened to that ant did he get disintegrated

Please this is very important i need to know ehat couldve happened to this ant

[balmy oyster]

I feel like this is a question that you could probably solve on your own with a little bit of thinking.

[undone rapids]

It might've gotten Hurt

[sly viper]

Ty

[undone rapids]

Np

[frigid delta]

funnily enough
-# coming from Nova themselves

[brave nova]

It has literally no material but

[coral forge]

oxalaia if it was a carcharodontosaur

[orchid rain]

True

[sterile trail]

I know it's accurate, but the dip above the hips really bothers me

[tulip gyro]

Well sarco is okay i guess

[ancient crystal]

If ants can die from a magnifying glass focusing thr sun onto them, I think they'd probably not handle a lightning bolt all that well either

[white matrix]

is amartus only dubious because it lacks sufficient material?

im really confused on why they didn't just put either stenops or ungulatus into it as it was discovered first ... and I'm seeing that ungulatus is just a a fully grown stenops. if they are decided to all be one species shouldn't the name go back to S. Armatus

[hallow spear]

It has a tongue if that’s what you mean

[floral ivy]

Yea I have seen that

[modern silo]

Why does the pycnonemosaurus look like the carnotaurus in the game?

[ancient crystal]

Because its only really pycno in name.

Like thalassodromeus with pteranodon, the devs really wanted carnotaurus but they wanted to call it a different name to he unique

[coral forge]

because its an abelisaur

[undone rapids]

We don't have Pycno's skull, so devs chose one of the abelisaurs which were its relatives and ofc Carno has the coolest skull, even if pycno having horns is pretty unlikely

[coral forge]

majunga has the coolest abeli skull

[undone rapids]

Lies, you can't outcool Twin Horns

[coral forge]

1 cool horn is better than 2 boring horns

[modern silo]

That is poorly worded, and I don't understand the example you give, that dinosaur does have the correct name

[modern silo]

But why not just name the carnotaurus instead of giving it a wrong name, I mean, the carnotaurus is more popular, and someone will probably learn the wrong names because of the mediocrity of the developers.

[undone rapids]

Honestly if devs wanted a not carnotaurus abelisaur they probably should've just picked something more complete like Ekrixinatosaurus or Majungasaurus

[ancient crystal]

They didn't actually want to make a thalassodromeus that reflects how we think thalassodromeus lived

They wanted a pteranodon, but also wanted to claim uniqueness and gave their "thalassodromeus" the gameplay of a pteranodon.

[modern silo]

I understand

[coral forge]

how accurate is this?

[undone rapids]

It has Chlantaisaurus as a Megaraptor it seems

[coral forge]

I couldn't find carcharodontosaur chilantai 💔

its franoys' megaraptor chilantai

[wind prairie]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09213-6 https://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41586-025-09213-6/MediaObjects/41586_2025_9213_Fig2_HTML.png?as=webp new oldest and most complete pachycephalosaur

[coral forge]

also since im color coding them by phylogenetic relations can I just pretend 'concavenatorinae' exists as a paraphyletic clade as an excuse to group conc, altispinax, lajasvenator and vectaerovenator

because rn its
red - carcharodontosaurinae
pink - formerly neovenatoridae
yellow - pretend concavenatorinae
blue - basal carcharodontosaurid
green - controversial/dubious

[hardy sentinel]

Anyone else like the image in their mind that there were just a ton of baby sauropods running around the Morrison considering the fact that sauropods had a crap ton of babies (granted there would only be a ton when they weren't all being slaughtered)

[zealous ravine]

New Camarillasaurus material was just described that seems to place it as a spinosaurine

[winter marsh]

Because Pycno is larger than Carno by some bit. If they added carno it would probably a lil bit bigger than Metri

[tough parcel]

Pyc model TLC where it gets a Carno, Majunga, and smooth head sub

Manifesting it rn please please

[coral forge]

pycno model tlc where it becomes 3200x smaller, gets 4 wings, an insectivore diet, the ability to climb trees and glide along with feathers and a black default skin

[coral forge]

was it not always a spinosaurine

[stray wren]

it wasn't for sure, but now it is

[fluid inlet]

Omnivore 🦷

[sharp jackal]

Oldest but somehow also only now just being announced... interesting 🤔

[native kindle]

did it also get a lot larger?

[ancient crystal]

I mean, the two have no correlation

[wind prairie]

I'm still skeptical but I still don't think people should be so quick to dismiss omnivore pachy

[coral forge]

oldest as in lived first, not discovered first

[coral forge]

bro has canines
omnivore pachy?

[balmy oyster]

Canines & sharp teeth =/= omnivory

[ancient crystal]

It means its a canine just like homotherium

[hallow spear]

This does mean it’s an omnivore

[balmy oyster]

Did you forget the “not”

[zealous ravine]

No clue, someone else scaled it, I’d have to check if the scale bars are off or if it’s actually that big

[wind prairie]

obv but it's still possible
they are relatively basal for ornithischians. Their teeth resemble those of troodontids which are known omnivores. And many herbivores today with sharp teeth have them exaggerated in such a way that it's obvious they are for intraspecific combat or display, with some exceptions (like camels)

they could be, they could not be

[charred hearth]

how many bullets did that quetz take 😭

[charred hearth]

is it smaller or larger then bary? hard to tell

[fluid inlet]

It’s an omnivore

My fault meant to reply to @balmy oyster

[hallow spear]

Whoops lmao

[ancient crystal]

16

[undone rapids]

Bigger, probably

[balmy oyster]

we don’t know this

[compact leaf]

behold an omnivore

[white matrix]

camels are so ugly

[small geyser]

Oh look! An omnivore! /j

[fluid inlet]

Is that your father ?

[small geyser]

Not falling for that.

[rain sun]

This is how to pronounce Kaiwhekea. As a new Zealander it pains me to hear Matt and now velocci butcher the name

[zealous ravine]

Similar to the spino neotype iirc

[normal laurel]

Is that your mom

[white matrix]

@hallow spear fixed stego. got 7.78 tons with a axial length of 8.2

[winter marsh]

hmm yes lemme make this name and make it into a completely different pronounciation that twists the tounge of even the smartest people alive

[white matrix]

got 1.93 tons for sophie

[thorn grove]

are we implying that matt and velocci are the smartest people alive

[native kindle]

it looks almost the same size as ichthyovenator from eyeballing it

[winter marsh]

yes

poland or indonesia

polinesia

[frigid delta]

well this stinks
https://x.com/Dinoh555/status/1968360317446144223?t=DVuJqktfsqAVKdytc69Z7Q&s=19

Dactylioceras🇵🇸 (@Dinoh555)

Goodbye "Protathlitis cinctorrensis" (Invalidated)

Hello Spinosaur Camarillasaurus

Revision of the theropod dinosaur Camarillasaurus cirugedae from the Early Cretaceous (Barremian) of Teruel province, Spain

https://t.co/MANX2C3ghn

Art by @JoschuaKnuppe

X · Sep 17, 2025, 5:04 PM

[undone rapids]

The paper also recovers the other spinosaurids from Spain+portugal are from the spino subfamily instead of Bray/Sucho sub-family

So maybe a bunch of weird sailed spinosaurids running around Angry Hadrosaurs on Iberia

[zealous ravine]

how so?

[frigid delta]

we outta sacrifice Protathlitis until its Camarillasaurus

[zealous ravine]

I mean Protathlitis kinda sucked to begin with, it was a maxilla and some verts that prolly weren' even from the same individual. All this paper is saying is that the maxilla isn't even a dinosaur maxilla to begin with.

[fluid inlet]

Matt Alderon?

[frigid delta]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-sorprendido-shaquille-oneal-gif-23222312

[full lagoon]

Would not have expected this

[rain sun]

It's actually easier to pronounce the correct way.

[ashen cape]

I can’t for the life of me pronounce that myself lol

[winter marsh]

you telling me kyfuhkuhuh is easier to say than kaiuekea

[charred hearth]

well aint nobody really gaf about protathlitis

[rain sun]

Judging by that spelling youve been saying it a 3rd way 🫡
I'm not here to debate or hear my native language butchered more ✊

[ashen cape]

Ah I’ve got it nailed now

[ancient crystal]

Kai-whe-key-a is the only way I shall ever pronounce it

[winter marsh]

the only dinosaur name that isnt gonna get butchered is Tyrannosaurus and I think people still butcher it

[full lagoon]

That's how I've been pronouncing it aswell

It's going to take getting used to

[winter marsh]

oh and gremlin

[rain sun]

Well now you know how to say it properly yaaaay you learned something congratulations 👏
💚 Have a good day fam.
Kia ora koutou

[winter marsh]

do yall say ankee or ankai

[ancient crystal]

An-kai is the only proper pronunciation

[ashen cape]

I say ankee if it’s just anky, then ankai in the full word ankylosaur

[full lagoon]

Ank-eelo:

[ancient crystal]

Every single one of my professors say mee-zo and it drives me crazy

[winter marsh]

jeeganotohsowrus

[full lagoon]

I would say both are technically correct

[frigid delta]

eww what no
"gih-guh-nuh-tuh-saw-ruhs" all the way 🔛🔝

[winter marsh]

treecereitops

[fluid inlet]

Probably not very good tbh.

[ancient crystal]

I bet smaller spinosaurs would taste pretty good

[charred hearth]

would any smaller spinosaurid be threatened by hippos if they lived in the same enviorment?

[full lagoon]

Is this a JW flashback

[sharp jackal]

Is this a joke?

[winter marsh]

spino and oxa would be the only safe ones considering hippos live in groups

[full lagoon]

Oldest as in the oldest appearing species as to date

[ancient crystal]

Uh, no.

An older fossil is not necessarily one discovered that's first.

[sharp jackal]

Wait what I thought hippos were exclusive to the cenozoic?

[charred hearth]

its a theroretical, maybe i wanna make a mix exhibit of a african wetland with prehestoric life , dont tell peta

[sharp jackal]

That doesnt... that doesn't track. Besides maybe a few outliers, new fossils are usually discovered more recently and the opposite is the case for older fossils. I mean allosaurus was discovered before t rex, which makes sense since its the older fossil and has had more time to be discovered

[ancient crystal]

No

[sharp jackal]

You can't just say no and not explain.

[undone rapids]

It depends on what era of rocks are deposited where, in America there aren't any or many Middle jurrassic era rocks, but there are more in China and such.

[fluid inlet]

Plenty of birds that still prey on mammals

[ancient crystal]

Yes I can, I just did

[undone rapids]

There are many Late Cretaceous and Late Jurrassic Rocks and Such in America, so we find fossils from that era alot more. In South Asia, we find Cenezoic fossils alot more often than Mesozoic Fossils since that's the era of rocks found more often

[sharp jackal]

Dude 😭 u do realize that China just uses a different calender than us? They aren't actually in the future lol. The jurassic was just as long ago for them as it was for us?

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/caution-created-by-artificial-intelligence-caution-artificial-intelligence-caution-created-with-artificial-intelligence-ai-gif-6712594256542040576

[winter marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-cat-is-this-bait-cat-is-this-ragebait-gif-10902073105296387701

calls someone rude for no reason: ✅ reply to something with nonsense: ✅ dissapears: ✅ yep, this might be it

[wind prairie]

"I mean allosaurus was discovered before t rex, which makes sense since its the older fossil and has had more time to be discovered"

🧠 💥
now think about that statement for more than 5 seconds
you are implying there was a time where allosaurus could've been discovered, but t rex wouldn't have been able to have been discovered, implying that you think t rex died in recent human history, was fossilized, and thus the statement

[winter marsh]

the older fossil also had more time to be completed pulverized by earthquakes, volcanoes, plant roots and space rocks as well as, yk, not fossilize at all

now I made a stupid sentence, look at me losing braincells with these kinds of people

[ancient crystal]

Imagine the amount of fossils lost to science because they were vaporized by the kpg impact

[winter marsh]

dinos be prayin to god we didnt discover their search history 🙏🏻

[stiff osprey]

Allosaurus was discovered before Coelophysis, suggesting that Allosaurus lived in the early Triassic

[winter marsh]

Megalosaurus was the first dinosaur discovered, meaning it was the first one to ever walk on earth

[ancient crystal]

The American Bison was discovered before coelophysis suggesting it was alive in the Permian

[ashen wedge]

What did I miss?

[white matrix]

@stiff osprey

[balmy oyster]

You were saying?

[balmy oyster]

When it says “old” the paper literally means it lived before all other species of pachycephalosaur. This would make it the oldest species because it lived before all the rest.

[fluid inlet]

I’m confused on what exactly is your point

[balmy oyster]

I conveniently didn’t see you saying some birds still hunt mammals and thought it was just the image by itself

[fluid inlet]

10/10

[marsh tapir]

A general chat reminder to remain polite and respectful while interacting on this server.

Refer to our #rules

Also, let us please remain on topics appropriate for this channel. You can check it's guidelines in the pinned messages. Thank you.

[sterile trail]

Gorgeous Utahraptor

[balmy oyster]

even if just a vague shot...

it looks really cool I'm ngl 🔥

[charred hearth]

what are the main differences between gorgo and alberto?

[fluid inlet]

Gorgo is gorgeous and alberto isn’t

[warm saddle]

I think gorgo is bulkier while albert taller n longer (perhaps gorg also has a sharper bigger crest? While bert has a rounded n smaller crest?)

[outer tusk]

Gorgo is a marginally larger

[white matrix]

anyone wanna verify my stego gdi?
got 7.78 tons with a axial length of 8.2

its a solid mesh

[charred hearth]

out of the 3 , who would y'all say is the most popular creature in the main stream media?

1 - albertosaurus

2 - gorgosaurus

3 - dasploteosaurus

[stuck hare]

probably albertosaurus because of the new walking with dinosaurs

[charred hearth]

do we count PoT as main stream? because i feel like it boosts dasp's popularity by a significant amount

[stuck hare]

it would but i'm not sure if PoT does count

[charred hearth]

i mean like, i would PoT is the most main stream dinosaur game, does that mean much? no clue

[stuck hare]

it is the most main stream dinosaur game but overall how many people play PoT versus how many people have watched the Walking With Dinosaurs remake

[charred hearth]

not alot apparently since theres not gonna be a season 2 unlike prehestoric planet

[stuck hare]

yea i was sad about that

[charred hearth]

the movie made abt 36 million domestically and $126.5 million which would make gorgo atleast semi-popular

[stuck hare]

yea, but albertosaurus has been in the jurassic world evolution games

though they have been losing popularity over time

[white matrix]

@stiff osprey @hallow spear is this true???

[charred hearth]

@ionic crescent you mentioned

[fluid inlet]

Don’t be sad surviving earth is gonna be way better

[wind prairie]

something about that doesn't sound right

[white matrix]

I dont get it tbh, most thyreophorans have beaks
you could say the same thing about a lot of hadrosaurs "only the lower jaw had a beak"
their mouth parts look very similar and I see most depictions of stego with beaks

aside from their teeth, their mouth parts resemble other ornithischians a lot

theres such a sharp edge too, would be silly for a beak to not attach there

their teeth are so similar to ankylosaurs that they've been mistaken for them too and basically all of them a beaked that I know of

don't understand why it was compared to pachy, don't even share any traits

[hardy sentinel]

Gorgosaurus, WWD movie solidified it, even non dino nerd kids know it. Dasp is too niche outside the paleontology community and Albertosaurus is just a bit less popular than Gorgo

When the Isle releases Albertosaurus as a playable it's gonna shoot to a close first with Gorgo

[frigid delta]

if "Troodon" was discovered before Stenonychosaurus, why did "Troodon" get booted?

[hardy sentinel]

The holotype for Troodon was based on an undiagnostic tooth, making it nomen dubium

Kinda how Ceratops and Titanosaurus aren't valid but their clades retained their names

It also helps to mention that in addition to being based on a single tooth, Troodon was also a wastebasket taxon

Btw Stenonychosaurus was Troodon for a bit, until the tooth Troodon was based on was examined and seen to fit basically any Troodontid, hence making it non-diagnostic

[frigid delta]

yeah i alr know the animal exist as Stenonychosaurus, it's just that the name 'Troodon' was invalid
understandable, have a nice day Mr. Cowl

[warm saddle]

Alberto tehn gorgo, dasp is far behind imo

[hallow spear]

It does have one, it not having one is dated, but the beak you gave it is too large and covered the nose

[hallow spear]

It can’t be verified without a proper dorsal view adapted to the lateral

[fluid inlet]

Cyclops from primitive war is king ☝️

[ashen ether]

I’m definitely going to see primitive war I’ve heard good reviews about it

On another side note, they found another dinosaur with a ossified larynx its pulaosaurus is the owner of this larynx

[white matrix]

yeah I realized that, will be fixed in sculpting dont worry

plan to bring it out here @hallow spear

[astral spindle]

@proven dagger here

[proven dagger]

alr

[ancient crystal]

I would've assumed alberto would be more popular

As a kid I never heard of gorgosaurus, but I definitely saw albertosaurus a few times

[coral forge]

I knew alberto from jurassic fight club
I knew gorgo from wwd
I knew dasp from some random documentary that I forgot the name of

[outer tusk]

Dinosaur Planet 😭 and Planet Dinosaur

[coral forge]

yeah planet dinosaur

[lime surge]

What stegos spikes called again?

[undone rapids]

Thagomizers

[lime surge]

Ty

[coral forge]

@brave nova you know that theropod phylogenetic tree you had a while ago? Do you happen to know if theres a hadrosaur/ornithischian version?

[hallow spear]

Dermal spikes, Spikes, or Unoficially thagomizer

[brave nova]

Not that I’m aware of, just a sauropod one

[coral forge]

damn alr
do you have the sauropod one on hand?

[coral forge]

thanks

[real swan]

Please keep all conversations in this channel on topic for discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology.

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