paleontology

[stark roost]

You mean a claymore?

[fluid inlet]

Give the human a dagger and the odds switch

[charred hearth]

also are regular medieval
swords that long range

who remembers priconodon

[ashen wedge]

That is one big Ankylosaur

[thorn grove]

is this the one that's based on tooth scaling

[fossil ingot]

Think so yes, tho iirc Random was able to downsize it?

[balmy oyster]

I gave a try on scaling it and managed to get something WAY smaller

I’ll send it eventually trust

Only reason why behemoth priconodon existed was because it was probably scaled with sauropelta which has small centrums and can get something terrifyingly huge

[stark roost]

Did it get like downsized or something

[stark roost]

Can’t borealopelta survive getting rammed into by a car 😭. I feel like I remember a test with it

[fluid inlet]

Hardly

[wind prairie]

primeval/weird birds ahh scenario
(I think the knight might win though)

[fossil ingot]

[balmy oyster]

even smaller.

[coral forge]

gotta love people using outdated documentaries as a source for things that arent even relevant to the documentary

[sudden wind]

Sailfish speed have been re evaluated to much lower than that. Previous estimates were based on fishermen sayings about how fast their lines were rolling lmao.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5087677/

[fossil ingot]

[plain spade]

anyone know if noahsaurus had its big claw on its toe, or hand, ive seen renditions with both and ive seen a couple of studies which point both ways so any thoughts?

[outer tusk]

https://youtu.be/NUVnOVev84Y?feature=shared

[velvet burrow]

Noasaurus?

The large and curved unguals come from the hand, though for a moment it was thought they were paravian-like sickle claws

[frigid delta]

"Brazilian T. Rex"

[crystal star]

so why is troodon considered a potentially dubious genus? and what woud those dinosaurs be assigned to if not troodon? (if possible answer in laymans terms, im not a biologist😅)

[sterile trail]

For the numbskull in the picture, it's allo europaeus

[coral forge]

a sub adult a. europaeus with a broken jaw and no fighting experience vs an oversized depiction of the largest Torvosaurus species that didnt live in America

[sterile trail]

Real

Personally, I believe A. anax will win against a Torvosaurus, though with great difficulty

[coral forge]

They're a lot closer in size than people think idk why everyone says torvo clears especially when A. Fragilis was by far the most dominant carnivore in the morrison

it makes up 72% of the morrison theropod fossil content for a reason

[hallow spear]

why did they use 2 seperate allo skeletals?..

also Fragilis isnt the largest specimen

[coral forge]

wym

[hallow spear]

wdym

[coral forge]

wym 2 separate allo skeletals and that fragilis doesn't have a large specimen

[hallow spear]

first,ly the first one is self explanitory, there are 2 different allo skeletals visible in use for Anax and fragilis

[coral forge]

because they're 2 different species

[stiff osprey]

why is the 'average torvosaurus' scaled to the smallest specimen

if that's the case 'average allosaurus' should be the neotype

[coral forge]

it was the only one in existence I could find that had a scale bar and wasnt edmarka

[hallow spear]

and? you use fragilis for both skeletals because anax barely differs, ontop of that the 1st skeletal isnt even anax im pretty sure its just franoys sauropha/allo different species does not mean you use a random other skeletal

and the fragilis depicted is not the largest allosaurus fragilis specimen, is what i meant by "fragilsi isnt the largest"

[coral forge]

oh wait yeah that one is sauro mb
but why should you use fragilis when showcasing anax when they're 2 different species? genuine question

[hallow spear]

they are the same genus and anax is fragmentory, using a different skeletal is just stupid

[coral forge]

megalania and pygmy monitors are the same genus too and megalania is fragmentary so should a pygmy monitor skeletal be used to showcase megalania?

[hallow spear]

is Allosaurus anax and Fragilis a Megalania or Pygmy monitor? No. You would use Fragilis skeletal scaled to anax to depict Anax because anax is not complete or visually distinct enough to warrant a random skeletal being used purely because you feel like it

[coral forge]

ok but you said that if theyre both in the same genus and one is fragmentary you should just use a skeletal from a different species in the genus so how come that only applies to allosaurus and not varanus?

[hallow spear]

Because i know nothing about Varanus so i cannot argue it. I do however know about allosaurus

You are using something to prove your point with allosaurus but you're ignoring the actual specimen from anax

[native kindle]

varanus is the single worst animal you could use to argue this, its a complete mess and its taxonomy isn't really anything like other genera

[coral forge]

I know, I'm just using anything other than allosaurus to show why im confused why a different species should always be used to represent a fragmentary member of the same genus.

[brave nova]

Anaxs reconstruction is pretty much the same as fragilis atm so using a skeletal which is something completely different is kinda odd.

2nd one is anax

[coral forge]

I misread it and thought it was an anax skeletal which is why I used it

so whats a good average for fragilis then
or is there not one

[brave nova]

I think around 8.5m is an average for it

[ashen wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-beautiful-isn't-isnt-it-gif-12022473578028475697

[coral forge]

now torvo feels tiny

I feel like something went wrong with it because I scaled it the same as allo but it turned out smaller than it should have...

Its supposed to be 11.4m but it turned out as 10.7

[ashen wedge]

Paleoconspiracy Theory Time: What if Allosaurus Anax is just Allosaurus Fragillis?

[hallow spear]

you are scaling allosaurus very wrong lmao, and torvo too

[coral forge]

what if deinocheirus is just a really big tarbosaurus

[coral forge]

so you are explaining things very wrong because i did it how you said it should be done

[hallow spear]

this is what it looks like when it is scaled correctly @brave nova @coral forge

[dense gust]

#backer- chat

[hallow spear]

No, you just didnt scale it correctly. I Never said how to scale anything. You did it wrong through your own means

[coral forge]

Pretty sure thats just because of the posture making the allos in the one i did look taller

(also youre proving me right because I scaled them using the one you just sent)

[hallow spear]

Each one of these squares is supposed to be 1m, the Allosaurs in this scale at over 12m in a straight line which they are not

[coral forge]

they are 11.8 and 11.7 which are identical to the 2 largest in the one you just sent

[hallow spear]

No, they are 11.8 & 11.7m in a straight line which is not the same measurement as the image sent

[coral forge]

wrong pic

[hallow spear]

11.8 and 11.7m respectively are their Centra lengths , not straight line measurements

[coral forge]

is that not 11.8? You're phrasing this in a very confusing way. Could you try to be informative rather than rude and condescending please?

[hallow spear]

i am explaining it but this cooldown sucks & i dont think im being rude or condescending at all

[coral forge]

you've called me stupid and instead of explaining how to correctly do it all you said was "you are scaling allosaurus very wrong lmao"

calling someone stupid and laughing at them for knowing less than you is pretty rude

[hallow spear]

I did not call you stupid, i said using a random skeletal of a random species to represent a different species is stupid there is a difference

This line is 1124 pixels long, which when divided by the 1m scalebar whcih is 144 pixels yields a straight line length of 7.8m, which is in contrast to the centra length of 8.3m
(I forgot the image one sec)

[coral forge]

still calling my actions stupid which means you're calling me stupid

mabye try just not referring to anything that anyone does as stupid unless it very truly is?

[hallow spear]

Here is the image

[coral forge]

so the 11.8m doesn't refer to the distance from the tip of the snout to the tip of the tail?

[hallow spear]

Correct, it refers to the vertabrae if it was stretched out on the skeletal, so for example it measures the vertabral centra from the tail to the head i will do an example in this message, this is lazily done but image it went to the end of the tail, this measurement then represents the meters estimate of 8.3m if completed, since it disregards posture in its estimate and is why like 99% of the skeletals you see will use this same measurement method

[hallow spear]

if you did want to scale in future you would need to match up the 1m bars

[coral forge]

thats what I did but it somehow ended up smaller than it should be

[hallow spear]

That seems the right size

[coral forge]

so even though the skeletal says 11.4m its actually 10.7 if you draw a straight line from the nose to the tail?

[empty steeple]

They are in the game right now, download the mod.

[undone rapids]

The skeletal says its 11.4 meters along the centra, which is measured by drawing a line through the centra of all the verts and it different from straight line length

[carmine belfry]

Yo guys I need help
Which raptor sized dinosaur is like a duck

[coral forge]

Halszkaraptor

[carmine belfry]

Thank you

[coral forge]

yeah so like the red line is 11.4 but the blue is 10.7?

[undone rapids]

Yes

Pretty sure that's an image i edited before for explaining once this before lol

[coral forge]

so is there a way to tell how to size it correctly on a chart if there isn't a meter bar to go off?

[undone rapids]

If there are any measurements of the specimen like say a femur length, you can use that to get the femur length in pixels then figure out how long 1 meter would be in that images pixels

Like say the femur in that torvosaurus is 300 pixels long. That'd mean 300 px ~= 1.1 meters. So 1 meter = (300/1.1) pixels

[coral forge]

So how do you tell how many pixels long it is?
Sorry if these are dumb questions I'm just curious

[opaque kayak]

TBH I just use the image measurement tool + 1m scalebar https://imagemeasurement.online/image/select

[undone rapids]

Paste the image into something like paint, there should be a line making tool that you can use to measure it. It'll say the length of the line on the bottom left

These aren't dumb questions at all btw, pretty normal when learning something.

[hallow spear]

Yes

[white matrix]

does this mean pt torvo is oversized?@hallow spear

what is torvo's weight? someone said the edmarka rex thing is 6 tons

[coral forge]

pt usually uses the largest possible sizes they can find
their para is based off a 12 ton estimate which is crazy

[hardy sentinel]

I dunno

[tough parcel]

I mean when Para was made, it was within reason

[white matrix]

when they do it with para and torvo but no Goliath rex💔

[coral forge]

12.5t para was valid 2 years ago?

[tough parcel]

Yea based on Fadeno's skeletals

[coral forge]

damn

[open compass]

When PT made the t rex, goliath wasn't discovered

[coral forge]

I wonder what specimen they based rex on since its listed as smaller than sue

[fossil ingot]

Yes
PT Torvo was Specifically made 12m cause Allo is around 11.4m ingamr

[brave nova]

5.2t. 6t is the pt torvo

[fossil ingot]

No, They Used Sue
Their Rex is 12.4m
Its only difference is that is Based on Sue without Cartilage.

PT Rex and PT Torvo next to eachother in the first two pics
PT Torvo Lateral on the 3rd Pic
Randomdinos Torvo With and Without Cartilage, Scaled to PT Torvo(who is meant to have Cartilage while been 12m) and Cartilage Sue

[coral forge]

Wym cartilage

[warped peak]

Cartilage in theropods dramatically affects height

[fossil ingot]

They used this Sue tmk

[coral forge]

sue isn't 12.4m tall though

[warped peak]

Sue is 12.8m long IIRC?

[hallow spear]

12.4 but close

[warped peak]

You can tell I focus on mamms and fish

[coral forge]

why do people get such different measurements for Sue

surely something that's like 90% complete shouldn't have 40cm differences depending on which source you use

[fossil ingot]

Both PT Rex and Randomdinos Sue are 12.4m

[warped peak]

40cm differences aren't much for a 1200cm animal

[fossil ingot]

Funny Animals

[coral forge]

its 3% the total length which is quite a lot of variation for something that's almost entirely complete

the difference between 12.4 and 12.8m on a t.rex is the same as 6ft and 6'2 on a human

[fossil ingot]

But yesh
Sue and PT Rex are both 12.4m

[coral forge]

is that the slim sub on the left

[fossil ingot]

I honestly have never seen a 12.8m anywhere, Cope Scaling off Sue is like 12.7m lol
And This is how they both look next to eachotjer

[coral forge]

I saw one earlier today that was 12.77 lemme find it

[fossil ingot]

Thats...Torvo
Base PT Torvo Sub

[fossil ingot]

Crazy.
Random's is 12.4m and Even Hartmans iirc is 12.3m

[coral forge]

oh
megalosaurines really do look like mini tyrannosaurs huh

[coral forge]

yeah I misread franoys' 12.57 as 12.77

[fossil ingot]

I mean.
Edmarka is Wide, surprisingly.
Elvis is poorly described but tmk is thinnier
Apparently

[white matrix]

I know, what im saying is people were asking if they were gonna upsize it and they said no

[charred hearth]

did you ever send it

so what were people able to get priconodon down too?

[tough parcel]

@stiff osprey

[charred hearth]

falcon is trying to cancel priconodon...

[sullen cairn]

its gonna be a shame whenever the priconodon stuff gets published and we'll have to abandon the several separate attempted ring scalings of the thing floating around

this also makes suecheng far less annoying the priconodon on account of being actually measured

[charred hearth]

whats suecheng

[compact leaf]

I will point out all of the downsized priconodons are still obscene and giant for a nodosaur, just not small sauropod sized

[outer tusk]

How old is this multview and who all contribute to the making of it?

[coral forge]

the giant zhucheng I'm pretty sure

[charred hearth]

larger then anky? or similar size?

[charred hearth]

thoughts? https://x.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/1963947198246174904/photo/2

Nature is Amazing ☘️ (@AMAZlNGNATURE)

A snowy owl with fiery orange feathers surprises Michigan..

X · Sep 5, 2025, 12:47 PM

[warped peak]

Wasn't the bird just covered in antifreeze or something?

Its an old image

[charred hearth]

oh was the bird okay?

[outer tusk]

smaller

[fossil ingot]

Was posted on 2024, tho its possibly a Bit Older

We do have this one which uses a Shorter Torso based on Elvis iirc

[winter marsh]

reminds me of that time they found a seagull covered in curry

[stiff osprey]

current range is 7-10 meters and like 4-8 tonnes

which may sound like a wide range but consider that priconodon is known from 3 scraps of barely identifiable bone

[charred hearth]

what size tyrannosaurid fits Tyrantrum the best? ( tyrantrum is 8'02"/2.5 m and 595.2 lbs./270.0 kg)

[winter marsh]

Moros Intrepidus maybe

[charred hearth]

oh....

[coral forge]

theres no tyrannosaurid of that weight that even gets past 1.5 meters tall but by weight I'd say bagaraatan or asiatyrannus but by height I'd say dasp horneri and length mabye alio

2.5m tall 4m long and only 270kg would require you to be insanely skinny

[charred hearth]

i'd expect it to be atleast tarbo size ToT

[coral forge]

in the animated series its 4.3m tall making it significantly taller than any theropod but according to the pokedex its pretty tiny

most pokemon are tiny according to the pokedex

[winter marsh]

wailord in the games can be as large as a ship but barely weights a ton

[charred hearth]

thats why it can fly

[winter marsh]

pokemon has a weird weight system (tbh its so stuff like snorlax which would probably weight like 3 or 4 tons dont become stupidly OP with bodyslam which is based off of weight)

[coral forge]

cosmoem weighs 999kg and is like 1ft wide

then again it is like a black hole or smth so even that is too light

[winter marsh]

I think its an entire galaxy inside it, and lillian can carry it in her purse like its nothing lol

[coral forge]

pokedex entries are weird tbh

they say one thing but stats say another
theres one pokemon that can move lightning fast according to the pokedex but its speed stat is like 80

[winter marsh]

hmm yes hmm the ground shattering reptile that provokes earthquakes and willingly splits water so it can walk on ground is as heavy as a muddy horse, hmm yes

[stiff osprey]

it moves lightning fast only when no one is watching, like a weeping angel

[winter marsh]

vikavolt 🥀 nintendo trying not to make fun of bug types challenge: impossible

[vast jewel]

https://youtu.be/Ife9NB8oYZY?si=bebY73bA3ihsRY0j

[coral forge]

also rayquaza the giant space dragon that resembles a meteor when flying has a speed stat of 95

[winter marsh]

slower than obese cat (purrugly)

[charred hearth]

what if their speed is just based off of reaction speed?

[coral forge]

it can dodge light speed attacks at point blank so that makes even less sense

[winter marsh]

iirc rhyhorn has a really hefty speed stat and its said they constantly run into stuff and cant stop running

[coral forge]

25 speed 💔

[winter marsh]

nevermind

[tough parcel]

Actually modern calculations place it as lightning fast...

[winter marsh]

big beefy chungus plesiosuchus

[full lagoon]

Pokemon are in a strange size range where they are bigger than the smaller real world animals but nowhere near the largest animals documented

[charred hearth]

if it was just the height, who would tyrantrum be most compareable too?

[full lagoon]

I'm honestly not sure

[coral forge]

dasp horneri

[tough parcel]

Erm...Nanotyrannus...

[stiff osprey]

lythronax

[coral forge]

actually it might be more comparable to an alio with an unnaturally long and beefy neck

[winter marsh]

obese alioramus

[tough parcel]

Lythronax is best with the fat skull

[coral forge]

alioramus if it was a tyrannosaurini

[coral forge]

if you use the one from the show mabye, but bista or tarbo would probably fit better no?

[tough parcel]

Are we using that one or this previous one because the one you just posted is gigantic

[coral forge]

the official size 2.5m tall which is what I used in the dasp comparison but the one in the lythronax pic is the size shown in the anime which is 4.3m

[full lagoon]

Don't they have a "skeleton" of one of those at a pokemon museum?

Maybe that could be useful to reference instead

[lone wraith]

Fun fact: The initial brake up of Gondwana in the early Jurassic was started by the Karoo-ferrar lip(large igneous province) which was a Gondwana wide flood basalt event. It also helped cause the Toarcian Oceanic Anoxic event which killed 23% of marine and in the Cleveland basin 87% of benthic species went extinct.

[raven sequoia]

I’m just realizing how a smaller Rex in between the sizes of Thomas (LACM 150167) and Stan (BHI 3033) would’ve potentially been so much more deadly than a giant Rex like Goliath sue or Scotty

(Yes I know Thomas and Stan were huge but weight wise they were actually on the lower end of the large rexes) I feel like they would have all the size advantages (bite force sheer weight etc) with the agility advantages as well

[fluid inlet]

Deadlier to who? That just depends what animal groups you’re talking about.

[stiff osprey]

To us

[winter marsh]

koolasuchus better

[raven sequoia]

Well a Rex that size probably wouldn’t be hunting the largest of herbivores maybe ceratopsians ankylosauridae maybe younger hadrosaur species (edmontosaur etc)

Also this palaeontologist studying stuff hard man😭

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/_themingau/status/1813697238209831215?s=46

Mingau 🦃 (@_themingau)

As you can see, I don't believe that carcharodontosaurids had such poor binocular vision. Below is a reconstruction by Dan Folkes (old?).

But maybe I overdid it and should edit my reconstruction? 😅🤔
-I'm still working on it

X · Jul 17, 2024, 10:08 PM

[outer tusk]

pretty sure the Lyth is alittle off, Hartman is okay here

[stark roost]

Chilantaisaurus

[outer tusk]

my goat!

[ashen ether]

Thanks

[zealous ravine]

We don't rlly know how tall Bista was is the thing

The postcrania is still being prepared but is supposedly super complete

[charred hearth]

what sauropod is auorus most compareable too? (8'10/"2.7 m and 496.0 lbs./225.0 kg)

[stiff osprey]

height is comparable to amargasaurus, weight is comparable to nothing because no sauropod is that small

[compact leaf]

even europasaurus is still like the size of a moose

[charred hearth]

why must pokemon be so light

[stiff osprey]

apparently because they have weight based moves so an accurate sized sauropod would just obliterate the other pokemon

[charred hearth]

if they didnt have to take weight into balance, it would weigh like 4 tons?

[stiff osprey]

not really because it isn't built like amargasaurus at all

[charred hearth]

so...lighter or heavier?

[stiff osprey]

pokemon height is measured to the top of the head so it's probably closer to 1t

[charred hearth]

and tyrantrum if it had a accurate weight?

[stiff osprey]

which is funny because there are 2 1 tonne pokemon
one is a black hole goblin and the other is a horse

[tough parcel]

Many such cases

Someone should GDI Aurora

[stiff osprey]

there's probably some pokemon fan out there who has ripped the 3d models of every pokemon from one of the latest games and can do it in 3 seconds

[charred hearth]

i can do it rn, what do i do?

[stiff osprey]

you'd need a side and top view of the model that are in the same pose as eachother without perspective

[charred hearth]

sir yes sir

[charred hearth]

now what

[stiff osprey]

are you in blender? the program has an automatic volume calc thing but i don't know how to use it

i could gdi it for you but if you learn how you should be able to do it faster in blender anyway

[charred hearth]

i have no clue how, so please do gdi do it for me, im very slow

[winter marsh]

this is so peak

[stiff osprey]

@hallow spear blender volume calc. teach this man

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/zaenyx-stan-twt-flop-tok-tokyo-toni-stan-twitter-gif-13841408297592503962

i wonder what he'll get it too

[stiff osprey]

i just did it in spyder, total volume is ~925 liters so assuming the same density as regular amargasaurus it weighs 900 kg

my 1 t guess was close

this however is very much not paleontology so i will stop talking

[charred hearth]

i mean, its kinda paleontology

[fluid inlet]

anyone got any idea on how to make scales and make them look realistic

[warped peak]

Drawing them

[fluid inlet]

sherlock holmes

[stark roost]

It is the fossil Pokémon so technically yea

[charred hearth]

in a realistic scenario, would the deinocherius have a higher chance then 50% to survive its encounter with the sarco?

[tough parcel]

Assuming they're right next to each other and perspective isn't the cause for Sarco's gigantic size

Probably not

[warped peak]

Considering Deinocheirus is what? Double Sarco's size?

3.5 tons vs like 7

At the scale in the image Duck is dead for sure

[charred hearth]

if we assume the duck is farther back would it be more fair?

[fossil ingot]

POT Sarco is about 12m
God knows how Oversized Deinoc is
But if we go throw the scale in the art, Deinoc has it Complicated

[charred hearth]

i thought majority of the apexes got changed to around their irl sizes?

alright, in a realistic scenario, what would probably happen in the context with whats happening in this image

[hollow vigil]

either the dasp would be able to try to score the neck (if it can do so while getting around the frill) or the dasp would die from an impale wound

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Deinoc got no Model TLC nor Size Decrease.
Rex got a Better Model and slightly Smaller(its about 13.2m)
Titan is quite Oversized at 13m while the Paratype is 11.6m
Spino Seems to be About 15-15.5m?, Which isn't Completely Aweful given NHMUK is 14.7m along the Centra
Eo is still Gigantic for what Eo is meant to be, Is like 9m or more? While Eo is 7m, however the downsize it got WAS needed cause lord
Bars is like 15-16m when the Animal is like 10.93m

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/astrapionte/status/1963833590774473122

.🔅𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖗𝖆𝖕𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖙𝖊🔅. (@astrapiont...

We
Are
Fam-i-ly!!!

Be honest, do they look like family?
…
#paleoart #extinct #elephant #manatee

X · Sep 5, 2025, 5:16 AM

[hardy sentinel]

I sent someone into insanity with this ball knowledge

[uneven ocean]

Guys guess what

[stark roost]

https://youtu.be/tSUPOJjYCWw?si=k5UHHF_RK5yzSO4p is this accurate

[coral forge]

anyone know how heavy theropod saurophaganax was

[coral forge]

5.7-7.2t tarbo feels a bit big
same with 5.6t megalo, 8.4t titan and acro, 8.6t mcraeensis and 9.6t mapu

[balmy oyster]

technically you could make this skeletal even thinner because the soft tissue isn't really aligned with the skeletal

[balmy oyster]

I'm so sad desmostylians didn't make it they would've been like herbivorous pliosaurs by now

[wind prairie]

so true lol

[mellow gale]

Does anyone have measurements of how tall Apatosaurus may have been standing only on its hind legs

[cyan fable]

what is that dinosaur?

[outer tusk]

A dinosaur

[cyan fable]

Oh I pinged wrong picture

[cyan fable]

what is that dinosaur? chilantai?

[undone rapids]

Yup, here's another reconstruction of it(we just have legs and some arm material of it sadly)

[rancid dove]

Hi, I have a question, do Kryptops and Carno have the same size?

[undone rapids]

No, Krytops is a much smaller abelisaur iirc

[native kindle]

kryptops' description like many other abelisaurs was super poop, its in reality a very small abelisaur

[undone rapids]

There's more material than I thought

Ok, nvm. I forgor this guy was apart of the eocarch chimeric stuff

[coral forge]

no

[warped peak]

I haven't watched it. But Darknix is quite thorough with their research, having often seen the process

@coral forge
5.7 - 7.2t Tarbo if quoted like that isn't out of the realm of possibility, especially considering the private skull specimen
IIRC we have some giant fragments of Megalosaurus and giant footprints from it too

The Carchs sound a bit heavy tho

[charred hearth]

i have a question, in a realistic scenario, would the pachy be able to escape from the pycno?

[warped peak]

In a realistic scenario, we don't have a lot of Pycno to say

If its built like a 10m long Carno it might have a chance of catching it? But Pachy is pretty heavily built for speed so I wouldn't bet on it

[coral forge]

fr? ive never heard anything about a giant torvo or megalo

[undone rapids]

Assuming pycno was doing the same thing as other South Murican abelisaurs, bob and weaving through trees might work as long as it survives the initial ambush

[native kindle]

in a realistic scenario neither of these groups have evidence of coexisting

[charred hearth]

well if they did

[drifting condor]

Fastest non avian dinosaur with research?

[hardy sentinel]

"It has front facing eyes like us, so if a T.rex was looking at you, it was looking AT YOU"

(I hate this TikTok audio so much because all animals with front facing eyes look in front of themselves)

[undone rapids]

Microraptor in a hurricane

[fast hollow]

Patagotitan entering the Earth’s atmosphere

[stark roost]

I was thinking where’d they get those megalo estimates?

[fossil ingot]

Prob this Guy, the Parker Coll Femjr

9.6t Mapu is based on a Specimen Material Worse than even Dentary Giga

[drifting condor]

Bruh

[coral forge]

one of the large ornithomimids probably

[stark roost]

You mean our goat

[stark roost]

His carno got that big? It’s crazy how big it is compared to other Abelisaurs

[stark roost]

What’s it based on lol

[wind prairie]

https://www.ameghiniana.org.ar/index.php/ameghiniana/libraryFiles/downloadPublic/141
possible campanian-maastrichtian spinosaur

[native kindle]

(its croc teeth)

[coral forge]

carno isn't too big, kryptops is just tiny

[fossil ingot]

I think its the Pubis or a MidCaudal
Either way its bad

[drifting condor]

Ok fastest carnivorous dinosaur?

[undone rapids]

Carno is pretty big for an abelisaur, not many that get bigger

[stark roost]

Way to be a Debbie downer /j

[coral forge]

peregrine falcon
for non avian dinosaurs its juvenile gorgosaurus iirc

[undone rapids]

probably stuff like khankhuluu and alectrosaurus

[drifting condor]

Forget to add non avian

[coral forge]

small tyrannosaurs
pretty sure juve gorgo was the fastest but I could be wrong

[fossil ingot]

Majunga is quite Big
Just Short Legged

[coral forge]

thats the biggest majunga ive ever seen

[undone rapids]

That's based on a fragmentary skull roof iirc, most majungs are much smaller

[fossil ingot]

Its like
8.1m, Random's Carno is 7.8m
Its Hartman's Majunga just on a Neutral Posture

[fossil ingot]

Like Most Animals
Sucho's Holotype is the Big one, the Refered Material and Other Specimen are Smaller
Carno is only the Holotype However

[undone rapids]

Kinda hope it ends up being another abelisaur, would be cool to see what else was living with majung

[fossil ingot]

We do have Sub Adults Majunga's Seemingly anyways (UA 8678)

[stark roost]

Megaraptor Chilantai on top

[undone rapids]

Yup, most majungs are around this size

[wind prairie]

just let me hope
they even give reasoning why they think it's not a croc

[fossil ingot]

Sub Adults are usually Smaller well yeah.
Doesn't mean when Adults they usually get Big

[drifting condor]

Google says the fastest dinosaur was compsagnathus interesting

[white matrix]

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxrZnhwjiAeZBGhMau7qOZC2bVIBYc_Sun?si=th8nuDSmYz-lvZXR

[hardy sentinel]

Livyatan best girl

[white matrix]

I think it'd be either gali or alio/qianzhousaurus whichever is bigger

[fossil ingot]

Alio isn't even an Adult so maybe

[hardy sentinel]

Guys this person's last name copied Livyatan melvillei

[drifting condor]

What are some ambush predator dinosaurs?

[hardy sentinel]

Probably all of them, most predators rely on ambush

[coral forge]

most carnivores with proportionally short legs and lots of bulk are ambush predators

[undone rapids]

All predators utilize Ambushing to some degree.

Since there's no real downside to ambushing your prey

[coral forge]

true but I'd consider an "ambush hunter" as anything that cant hunt without an ambush

like cheetahs will ambush their prey but theyre pursuit hunters because they chase their prey, but tyrannosaurus on the other hand cannot chase and if the ambush is not pulled off it will most likely fail the hunt

[coral forge]

ambush hunter - will most likely fail a hunt if unable to ambush. Examples: t.rex, crocodilians

pursuit hunter - chases their prey. Examples: abelisaurids, cheetahs

endurance hunter - will fight indirectly for extended periods until prey dies from hunger, exhaustion etc. Examples: carcharodontosaurids, wolves

[hardy sentinel]

Cheetahs rely on ambush, they can only run for at most 30 seconds. It can't exactly just run up on prey

The fastest land predators alive today need ambush

[coral forge]

yes but a failed ambush doesnt guarantee the hunt to be failed

a cheetah can still chase its prey, a tyrannosaurus cannot chase its prey

[undone rapids]

Dunno why it can't, most of tyrannosaurus' large prey are slower than it

[charred hearth]

the only thing faster then rex was edmonto ( that it was normally hunting )

[coral forge]

there were 4 multi ton herbivores in its ecosystem and it would be unable to hunt 3 of them without an ambush

[charred hearth]

uhm
edmonto
toro
trike
mosasaurus thats washed up on the beach?

[hardy sentinel]

Edmonto, Denver, Anky, Toro, Trike H and Trike P. There are more than four

[coral forge]

oh yeah I forgot about toro

alamo
trike (ambush required)
toro (ambush required)
anky (probably unhuntable regardless unless caught upside down somehow)
edmont (ambush required)

[charred hearth]

how did you get 4 if you forgot toro

[coral forge]

i only thought of alamo trike anky and edmont

[hardy sentinel]

Baby or laying down dying Alamo*

[charred hearth]

i mean like, if rex is hunting alamo thats probably because its young, sick/old or has a disability

[undone rapids]

cheetah's too only chase prey after getting close enough to prey from ambushing, nothing a rex wouldn't do

[coral forge]

yeah, an ambush would still probably be required on a laying down alamo

[fossil ingot]

Alot of Ambush is needed even for Current Animals
Cause Ambushing and Catching by Surprise is the Main issue way to win the fight

[hardy sentinel]

Also why are we not including Denver on this list vro it's a multi ton herbivore 🥀

[charred hearth]

denver is being a bum in ankys basement and refuses to go outside and interact with the world

[stiff osprey]

tyrannosaurus can definitely chase down any of the large herbivores in its environment, easily too for most of them

it mostly 'needs' to ambush because most of them are capable of defending themselves, but by the mentioned standards of ''it can/can't chase'', tyrannosaurus is a pursuit predator

[coral forge]

isn't denver below 2t

[fossil ingot]

Jaguars are pretty noticiable ambush predators when it comes to killing Caimans.
Ambush Predators are kinda just
Alot of Predators

[charred hearth]

could you say baleen whales also count as ambush predators?

[hardy sentinel]

It's 3 tons

[undone rapids]

Everything ambushes, if your prey sees you before you get close. The hunt has already failed

[fossil ingot]

That too

[coral forge]

I'm not saying nothing ambushes im saying things that are obligate ambush hunters and are not built for chasing for extended periods are far more likely to fail a hunt if they fail an ambush

[hardy sentinel]

The only obligate ambush hunters that NEED ambush to the extent you're talking about is crocodillians

[charred hearth]

what are we arguing for and against? im really confused

[fossil ingot]

Rex mostly Ambushes cause most things its Area can fight it Back or in Edmonto's Case mostly run away
But Rex is pretty much Faster than Toro and Trike
Rex can pretty much Chase all its Prey Items but maybe a Not that Big Edmonto

[hardy sentinel]

Apparently what an ambush predator is and isn't

[coral forge]

thats.... what im saying

[fossil ingot]

You said that if Rex Failed an Ambush it can't Pursuit Prey unlike Cheetah(Despite Cheetah arguably needing Ambush more than Rex)

[hardy sentinel]

Isn't that true for basically every carnivore that lives out of water ever?

[undone rapids]

Then its mainly just endurance hunters like wolves and other canines which can run for long distance and ambushers like tigers and other cats. For dinos, I'd imagine ones like albertos and otehr long legged ones would be good at endurance or atleast longer distance hunting than other theropods. Most other theropods might just stop after a shorter chase liek cats

[coral forge]

No, I said that it cant pursue for extended periods making it rely on ambushing more than most other predators

Everything ambushes, it's stupid not to but some animals simply rely on it more than others

[fossil ingot]

Saying Rex 100% needs an Ambush vs Toro and Trike just sounds dumh.
Sure, am Ambush is Obviously the Better and Much Safer Option
But saying that Without an Ambush it just not ablento is just
Lol

[charred hearth]

i thought rex could

[hardy sentinel]

The first sentence is literally just cheetahs

[undone rapids]

Basically all cats

[coral forge]

you are completely misinterpreting what im saying

not once have i said a failed ambush is a guaranteed failed hunt

[fossil ingot]

Rex is a Pretty decent Pursuit Predator for its Size.
Is Speed and Agility are overall superior to most of its Prey.
Cheetah Relies on the Ambush, moment Cheetah Ruins it and misses, once it runs out of Gas it can no Longer pursuit
I feel that using Cheetah as a Comparison was just
Not Great

[coral forge]

panthers are predominantly ambush hunters but you could argue for lions bordering on endurance hunters because they will occasionally spend days on a single hunt

[fossil ingot]

Yeah
Cheetah Arguably Relies on Ambushing more than Others
Cause while Fast, its Enduramce is kinda Cheeks
And if they don't catch up to their prey in those few secs
Yeah
Basically same as Rex.
I wouldn't say a Carch is a Pursuit Predator only cause its Bleed when Rex is Probably as good for that lol

[hardy sentinel]

Where are you getting they spend days on a single hunt?

Also if that statement is true, it would make sense considering they can have members rest while the others remain hunting. A solo lion wouldn't be an endurance hunter

[undone rapids]

Its about the same amount as most other cats, Tigers chase very little too after the initial burst, Jaguars and leopards I don't think chase for long either

[fossil ingot]

They mostly chase very little cause Prey is usually kill on the Spot Yeah.
And for Jaguars vs Caimans mainly to Inmobilize the Caiman Quickly

[undone rapids]

I was referring to failed hunt situations. Cheetah's iirc have much higher succesful hunting % compared to other cats

[coral forge]

Thats why i said occasionally and bordering on.

There have been a few recorded cases of groups of lions hunting weak/injured hippos over multiple days meaning they will employ endurance hunting tactics sometimes but definitely not all times

[hardy sentinel]

So can you link or tell me where to find said recorded cases? I'm not denying if it's true I was literally just asking where you got that information

[fossil ingot]

I mean
Cheetah Prey are Gazelles most times
A Sucesful Ambush much times will result in Food
But its possible

[hardy sentinel]

Why do felids have such low endurance and canids have high endurance? What's going on for them to be so different?

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/cheetah-run-chase-gif-3545493

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah, I live at the same time as this, this is epic (can't say the same for my grandchildren though)

[stark roost]

Proboscis dinosaur

[hardy sentinel]

You have re-awoken a rage inside of me that has been dormant for years

[stark roost]

Why

[hardy sentinel]

A proboscis is not reasonable on a reptile and they look weird

[little mauve]

Differing strategies result in differing morphologies and vice versa. One example is the forelimbs, canids can be more cursorial with both fore and hind limbs and paws because they aren't used for grappling prey

[stark roost]

Why

[hardy sentinel]

A proboscis requires a ton of face muscles which reptiles don't possess

[stark roost]

He’s tuff don’t lie

[hardy sentinel]

Reptile face muscles (Archosaurian and Lepidosaurian)

[coral forge]

https://www.kenyawildparks.com/do-lions-hunt-hippos/ this is the main one that I found because it is insanely rare but it talks about how when hippos are hunted the lions wait until its exhausted which is more or less endurance hunting

[hardy sentinel]

If you're talking about an extended nose then yeah that's possible but if you're talking about elephants or tapir level stuff than absolutely not

[stark roost]

What about stuff like muttaburra

[coral forge]

isn't that just a giant nose like what bars has ingame

[hardy sentinel]

That's just a giant nasal region, basically just an extended nose

[stark roost]

Could a carnivore have that

[hardy sentinel]

I don't see why not

[stark roost]

Do we have any evidence of it

[hardy sentinel]

I don't know

[stark roost]

I looked up barsboldia skeletal and just got this. What the flipperoni 💔

[coral forge]

barboldia Laticaudus

[hardy sentinel]

I miss Lambeosaurine Barsboldia

At least we got this mf

[coral forge]

I miss 25t lambeosaurus magna

[stark roost]

Magnapaulia best hadrosaur

https://www.instagram.com/p/DOPqbi3kjF7/?igsh=MTdkMzQ2NnkxNzl0cQ== is ts real

extinctanimalsfacts

For the first time in 150 million years, a stegosaur is giving up its secrets; thanks to a skull so complete it’s rewriting their history.

Found in Spain, it’s the most complete stegosaur skull ever uncovered in Europe. The fossil belongs to Dacentrurus armatus and is so well-preserved that scientists have re-drawn the family tree of stegos...

Likes

1923

Instagram

[charred hearth]

@hallow spear

[coral forge]

least oversized prehistoric wildlife chart

[stark roost]

Well wasn’t that when ekrix was like scaled to some sort of abelisaur that made it gigantic?

[coral forge]

I'd be surprised if it was scaled to something other than an abelisaur considering it is an abelisaur

[undone rapids]

Its just an older estimate for ekrixinatosaurus, since it had a larger skull than carnotaurus(we know now better than to trust skull length for abelisaur scalling)

[hardy sentinel]

The urge to scale an abelisaurid to its skull despite them having proportionally big skulls

[undone rapids]

though the legs are still way too long

[hardy sentinel]

I love the murder sausages ❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

[undone rapids]

But yeah its got a big and wide skull, basically wider than rex if scalled to the same skull length

[stark roost]

Nah but that’s just crazy how big ekrixinatos skull was lol

[charred hearth]

is a ceratopsians center of gravity / balance the same as like, a sheep or cows?

[coral forge]

can we trust cotylorynchus skull length for erythrosuchus scaling?

or what if tarbo had the same arm length as duck

[hardy sentinel]

Good question

[fossil ingot]

Godzilla..

[hallow spear]

Seems extremely overly dramatic lol

[drifting condor]

Which one would dromaeosaurids be

[full lagoon]

It's really just a difference in their builds and lifestyles. Felids usually opt for short bursts of power rather than exhausting prey via endurance like canids do. this is why big cats can only reach their insane top speeds for a few seconds.

[stark roost]

Well what’s it about?

[full lagoon]

Very likely more front heavy

[undone rapids]

There are some feliforms that have that more endurance focused build like hyenas and homotherium iirc

[full lagoon]

Yeah for sure, but generally speaking they simply employ different strategies, not that they are just somehow less capable of becoming that way.

[full lagoon]

If you count a hummingbird's odd, butterfly convergent beak, then you are not wrong

[warped peak]

Niche partioning and extinction

The low endurance ambush Canids got outcompeted by cats which were better at the niche, largely due to retractable claws and shorter skulls better for powerful biting

For example, Hyenas are feliforms with high endurance, with a couple extinct species almost resembling cheetahs. Bone cracking dogs were more robust and better suited for tackling large prey in ambushes. The whole Homotherium lineage was far more cursorial than modern cats as well, despite being sabertoothed. Amphicyonids only went extinct relatively recently, but were largely built like members of Panthera

Even Bears have some more cursorial giant relatives that went extinct.

Basically, almost every lineage tried both ambush and pursuit hunting methods. Cats are extremely proficient predators, and their lineage of pursuit hunting Basically just died out between humans and the ice age, while the ambush dogs got outcompeted by big cats, and the last more "robust" and ambush favoring dogs went extinct in the ice age

[hallow spear]

Liekly about the Miragai / Dacent lump

[stark roost]

Ofc lol

[drifting condor]

How possible is this

[charred hearth]

very

would they count as semiaquatic ground sloths?

[ashen wedge]

This is extremely possible

[hardy sentinel]

They're based on a mix of salamanders and hippos

[charred hearth]

salamanders?

[bold laurel]

Hes right, they do kinda look like Salamanders.

[hardy sentinel]

A salamander is a lizard-like amphibian

[charred hearth]

i know what a salamander is

[lone wraith]

Got the pnso carcha model from 2021, it’s pretty accurate for 2021 the only thing I wish it had was lips

I put it behind my real carcha tooth

[hardy sentinel]

How do you know?

[hardy sentinel]

Did you buy it or dig it up from the Kem Kem yourself?

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/wildfireuv-gif-24550630

[hardy sentinel]

So? How do you know what a salamander is

[lone wraith]

I ant going to Morocco for a Dino tooth, I bought it

[charred hearth]

inform me on how i wouldnt knwo what a salamander is

[hardy sentinel]

Y'know

[stark roost]

Ragebait

[hardy sentinel]

Wouldn't requires a would, tell me how you would know what a salamander is

[charred hearth]

y'know

[ancient crystal]

I know people don't care for anything concerning Colossal, but I've always had this nagging question about their "dire wolves."

Yes, they are not true dire wolves.

Yes, they are "just" GMO grey wolves.

But, beyond that, what Colossal ended up doing was achieve the end result of generations of selective breeding in one generation.

Dogs are a subspecies of wolf, or at least some people say as much, others simply consider them Canis lupus.

So how genetically dissimilar does something have to be to be considered a subspecies? At what point, genetically, do Colossal's animals become something other than just GMO grey wolves?

[hardy sentinel]

Ngl we should make up a term for genetically edited animals that are meant to be morphologically different

Kinda how breed is a made up but not scientific word.

[broken shale]

I think it’s called a mutant

[bold laurel]

Do you think its even necessary to add another Crocodilian? If so, what would be a good and separated option from Sarco?

[hardy sentinel]

Probably a more land based one

[halcyon cobalt]

Isn’t T. Rex just all three of these

[warped peak]

I believe Breed is still the same idea

[halcyon cobalt]

GMO is used like that

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah but a more common name would be nice considering animals like these are most likely gonna get more and more common

[halcyon cobalt]

“GMO” has filled that gap already as a common buzzword for genetically engineered animals though

the people who talk about GMO wheat giving their dog autism aren’t the same ones who engineer the wheat

[warped peak]

Its important to note that even natural breeding is considered GMO

[winter marsh]

autistic dogs were not in my 2025 bingo card

[serene sedge]

GMOs are safe to consume, 90% of the pushback is due to people either A. fearmongering for a certain agenda or B. not understanding what they are in the first place. The same people who get twitchy about GMOs are usually the same people who want vaccines banned because they think it causes autism, it’s pseudoscientific nonsense.

[river plinth]

There actually shellfish but id go as far as calling them terrestrial sea slugs

[winter marsh]

they are otters, guys, they are otters

[hardy sentinel]

Furless otters, nice one

I'm sure they got inspiration from em but there's no way there isn't some salamander and hippo there

[charred hearth]

how?

[coral forge]

the pokedex lists it as "the hermit crab pokemon" and hermit crabs are shellfish

[cyan star]

I just heard of plaussible Maastrichthian Spinosauridae in South America 🙏😭

[coral forge]

watch tiktok call it fake and everyone who likes it is a poser because its fragmentary and therefore just a spino or smth

[cyan star]

What was bro doing living same time as Tyrannosaurus

[coral forge]

correction what was tyrannosaurus doing living at the same time as bro

[balmy oyster]

did bro just find out about montanaspinus

oh wait no this is a different thing

[cyan star]

Its just tooth fragment, not plausible to assigned a species or genus, but they know is a Spinosauridae

[coral forge]

oh yeah tiktok is gonna have a field day with that

[balmy oyster]

turns out the teeth aren't spinosaur they're some sort of random croc teeth, but both clades do apparently have superficial similarities (probably due to similar niches & prey items)

[cyan star]

https://x.com/TomHoltzPaleo/status/1964444300110156119?t=WFu8lofMQOd7SypVp1lwNw&s=19

Here funny paper

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. 🦖💕 (he/him) (@TomHoltzPaleo)

G.J. Olmedo-Romaña et al. (2025)
Theropod and sauropod dinosaurs from the Campanian–Maastrichtian Bagua Basin of Perú, including the first possible report of Spinosauridae in western South America.
Ameghiniana
doi: 10.5710/AMGH.13.02.2025.3627
https://t.co/msd8Bx6FRe

X · Sep 6, 2025, 9:43 PM

[balmy oyster]

it's not spinosaur

[cyan star]

Shhh, It is, Maastrichthian Spinosaurids are real, trust me

[coral forge]

technically all reptiles are spinosaurs
is it a reptile? does it have a spine? its a spined reptile

[cyan star]

Reptiles should be renamed "Spinosaurus"

[halcyon cobalt]

guy who thinks “shellfish” refers to any animal with a shell:

[balmy oyster]

did we use all 100% of our brain for this one

[coral forge]

no
like 24% max

[fossil ingot]

[river plinth]

Cause there pokedex literally calls them the the shellfish pokemon with the fact they look like hermit crabs with 4 legs

[coral forge]

which size is better for pycno? I assume the second one but I just wanna be sure

theyre around the same length but 2 is considerably taller

[halcyon cobalt]

Nothing about them looks like hermit crabs other than the shell

[coral forge]

"nothing about them looks like hermit crabs other than the main defining feature of hermit crabs"

[undone rapids]

both are probably fine, not like we know who pycno's closest relative is

[coral forge]

I'll just go with the second one then because I dont like pycno being shorter than carno

[undone rapids]

Pycno probably was shorter than Carno in height cuz Carno has an absurdly long femur for its size

[coral forge]

nuh uh

[halcyon cobalt]

behold, a hermit crab

[coral forge]

Snails are born with their shells and their shells aren't the same as hermit crabs

[halcyon cobalt]

hermit crabs wear snail shells

[coral forge]

not always

you cant just call a snail a hermit crab because they both have shells and hermit crabs sometimes wear snail shells

[halcyon cobalt]

behold, a hermit crab

[coral forge]

does that species of octopus live in the shell or is that just a random octopus sitting in a shell

[halcyon cobalt]

Veined octopus

[coral forge]

ok so you could say that it is an octopus that resembles a hermit crab, perhaps even being named after them if someone else named them

[lime iron]

Behold, a hermit crab

[coral forge]

that's an orange

[sudden wind]

Hermit crab (actually a crab)

[ashen wedge]

What did I miss?

[coral forge]

What if spinosaurus was the one who hunted sauropods and not carcharodontosaurus because how can carcharodontosaurus reach the sauropods if they live in the water 24/7 because of their weight

[hardy sentinel]

I'm gonna remove your spine and ability to produce internal heat and then we'll see what you're called (in Minecraft)

[hardy sentinel]

Hermit crab shells aren't even their own shells how can that be their defining feature?

[hardy sentinel]

Hermit crab semantics

[coral forge]

Because the shells they have are what most people recognise them by even if they aren't part of their body

[hardy sentinel]

If we went off of what most people mostly called something then south american foxes would be true foxes

We got taxonomy for a reason brotato chip

[coral forge]

??
what do you think im trying to say

[hardy sentinel]

We go off of what they actually are not what most people say they are or recognize them for

[coral forge]

yeah, except slowbro resembles a hermit crab and was thus named after them

[hardy sentinel]

It's a pink hippo salamander otter with a shell on the tip of it's tail how is that resembling a hermit crab

If I slap a snail shell onto your finger are you resembling a hermit crab?

People 100% recognize hermit crabs by their behavior and face, if we went off of shells it would be illogical

[ashen wedge]

Oh, I guess that ain’t too bad

[ancient crystal]

[ancient crystal]

I did a coastal population survey the other day at a local beach and my god the hermit crabs were a pain to count because they were all wearing mud snail shells

[lime iron]

I dont think you can say hippos are omnivores.if there are a good amount of plant and stuff to eat they will very rarely or not eat meat

[hardy sentinel]

This opens spec evo for predatory Ceratopsians if they didn't go extinct

[ancient crystal]

Oh I know, I'm just posting this because I think its ridiculous that people hear that example of a deer eating a baby bird and suddenly think they're omnivores

I used to be a profile writer for a realism server (don't recommend) and everyone wanted us to let eo hunt things like rexes

[hardy sentinel]

Aren't those cases during times of need where an animal would be super low on protein and calcium?

[ancient crystal]

Exactly, its dietary supplementation

[hardy sentinel]

Letting Eotrikes hunt Rexes is wild work, at the biggest they'd eat a Compy or a Rhamph

[opaque kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-minecraft-memes-steve-prank-meme-gif-9233501247031718577

[compact leaf]

oh hey I remember that lmao

[charred hearth]

the reason its called the hermit crab pokemon, is not because its a hermit crab, its because its like a hermit crab in the way it "found" a shell to protect itself, ie, Shellder

[undone rapids]

The Hermit Crab Pokemon implies the existence of Hermit Crabs that aren't Pokemon within the Pokeverse.

[ancient crystal]

Lots of pokemon names are like that

[charred hearth]

does anyone know what prehestoric life they refrence?

[sudden wind]

You can distinguish hermit crabs from other Anomourans even when they don't have shells. They got a soft coiled abdomen coiled to the side. Their 4th and 5th pair of limbs are also modified to hold on said shell and eggs.

[sudden wind]

I recently learnt the origin of "hermit crab" in French, which we call "Bernard l'Ermite" : it was a wastebasket term referring to a lot of marine invertebrates.

[charred hearth]

oh damn, really?

[warped peak]

Crinoids

[charred hearth]

can criniods do this "It ensnares prey with its eight tentacles. It then melts the prey with a strong acid before feeding."

[flat pewter]

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!!! The beak and the slicing teeth could eat small game and scavenge no problem. They had horns that required Calcium and Keratin to grow, they needed protein and Calcium to make that happen. Large animals today who are less equipped to eat meat than Ceratopsians hunt small critters and scavenge bones for the minerals and nutrients to supplement their diet. I think a trike would not hesitate at all to eat a hatchling, turtle, small dead or dying animal, or grubs/bugs if the opportunity came up. They have the jaws to do so and food is food. Even "plant eating" reptiles today eat bugs and the occasional vertebrate, and beaked birds like the Hornbill hunt bats and lizards despite being fruit and nut specialists.

If you scale that up, anything smaller than a ceratopstians head would be viable food, meat or not. If one was going off of percentage of plant vs meat in modern day animals, grizzly bears in some areas eat 87% plant life, supplementing with fish, grubs, and whale meat. Others hunt small game daily, even large game if the opportunity arises or the season provides it. Which begs the question... did some ceratopdians engage in similar behavior?

[ancient crystal]

I, uh, think you missed the point. I'm posting this, especially with this emote , to express my doubt about it

[charred hearth]

damn.

[warped peak]

No crinoids are filter feeders

[warped peak]

Ceratopsians have specialized teeth for grinding hard matter like bark, not slicing.

[ancient crystal]

Ceratopsiana certainly have no reason to be thought of as anything but herbivorous

Dietary supplementation does not change their overall feeding strategy

[warped peak]

Ceratopsian beaks are more similar to a parrot than a bird of prey well

In terms of function, not in terms of structure. Parrot skulls are cursed.

If we're being serious, Stegosaurs and Ankylosaurs also have significantly higher amounts of Chitin and bone display than Ceratopsians do

And feathered herbivores like Therizinosaurs also have huge keratin displays that would require constant maintenance due to shedding!

[charred hearth]

is there any way to tell whats a obligatory herbivore/carnivore in prehestoric species?

[flat pewter]

Oh I see. My point still stands. Domestic and wild hooved have less biting power than ceratopsians, and are less equipped to eat flesh. Yet there is multiple accounts and videos showing them doing the opposite, eating chick's, mice, I saw a cow eat a snake in a video and in person. And there are parrots that eat meat as well as fruit, like the Kia bird. I highly doubt an animal that needed to put on mass as fast as larger Ceratopsians like Triceratops and Styracosaurus wouldn't venture into eating meat or seeking out bones or forms of protein that were not plantbased as they went through growspurts into adults. It happens with a lot if different species, mammal, bird, and reptile, today

[warped peak]

By the same logic then it becomes entirely not worth mentioning because its a universal herbivore behavior, not a "ceratopsian" thing. Hadrosaurs would need far more nutrients as would sauropods!

[dusky jay]

I love the pfp bro

[tough parcel]

I will point out there was an isotopic study done on Dinosaur Park Formation animals and ankylosaurs were eating as much meat as ceratopsids

As in none

[ancient crystal]

Wdym, clearly ankylosaurus was a bloodthirsty killer that ate the shattered remains of dinosaur ankles

That's what dakotaraptor's chimera is, it was a pile of the vicious ankylosaur's kills

[flat pewter]

Its definitely worth talking about and speculating imo. I have a hunch (not every species but the larger and mid sized ones that lived more solo life styles) were more omnviorus based on the season and plant avaliablity. And I'd also like to point out fossil bias being a thing. The isotopic testing may have applied to those individuals, but I doubt those ones stand for the millions we will never had. Like I said, I speculate they ate small game from time to time, and only the ones who had to struggle more for food. No dino was a blood thirsty killer, but I think the strong jaws of the frill heads were Def able to eat meat if pushed to it.

[tulip dove]

This doesn't mention hadrosaurs however...
And this is because the local hadrosaurs were the ones keeping the herbivore population in check
The theropods were just scavenging the leftovers...

[native kindle]

the only times that genuine herbivores eat meat in the modern day is when they're genuinely malnourished, why are we speculating when herbivorous dinosaurs became malnourished just to push meat eating propaganda lol

[tough parcel]

The problem is you're assuming they had abnormally strong jaws

If we look at a camel and crocodile skull then apply the same logic, the camel bites harder than the croc + sharp teeth thus it's omnivorous

[native kindle]

but the more important thing is that this was already studied and doesn't really have any backing!

[charred hearth]

would you rather get bit by archelon or udanoceratops

[ancient crystal]

I have a theory

[native kindle]

"would you rather get your arm cleaved off or get your arm cleaved off" fixed the question for ya

[little mauve]

Also worth noting that Triceratops at least had poorly developed olfactory bulbs, a poor sense of smell isn't the best tool for an omnivore-scavenger

[ancient crystal]

Actually, its olfactory bulbs were in its horns

[little mauve]

Ah yes, and the frill was a radar dish to hone in on prey

[charred hearth]

Would you rather get bit by camarasaurus or edmontosaurus

[empty steeple]

I envy camels and any other mammal omnivorous, why they have good developed teeth, for each diet, and we have so bad teeths, and we are omnivorous.

[warped peak]

Because human skulls have been shrinking a while

[hallow spear]

The skull hasn’t, from my research the jaw has

[flat pewter]

Camels eat meat to supplement their diet! And I don't assume for the strong bite, but it simply supports the claim. And they were not abnormally strong, but they were strong. The reason I believe they engaged in supplementation through meat and bone and other organic sources is this: their horn and frill growth! The plants alone most likely wouldn't support that 100%, much like modern day animals big and small who grow display structures and horns for interspecies combat.

Im also not sure the point you are making here: camels eat meat, they eat carrion and small vertebrates/ insects, and have a strong bite (no where near the bite of a crocodile, thats an absured thing to insuate) , and are, in general, still considered herbivores. But like I said, not all, but some ceratopsians in my mind would be capable of the same omnviory that a wild boar or a black bear goes through. I'd argue that it could have even depended on the individual and varied between them within the same species. I also think the term "Herbivore" might need some redefining, or the acknowledgement that diet in wildlife is way more fluid than most people think.

[warped peak]

I want to clarify, dietary stuff is well defined

Under 10% Meat: Herbivore
Under 90% Meat: Mesocarnivore/Omnivore
Over 90% Meat: Hypercarnivore

[sudden wind]

Crinoids have 10 arms

Also yeah, they are microvores filter feeders as said previously.

[tough parcel]

Got a source on that camel thing?

[warped peak]

I do know I've seen it on Wikipedia but again that just boils down to herbivore behavior. Dietary supplement is common in nature

Its why herbivore and Hypercarnivore aren't 100% Meat or Plant

[flat pewter]

https://wildswhisper.com/what-do-camels-eat/

"Also, camels are herbivores that feed mainly on grasses. However, it has been discovered that they also feed on carrion and chew bones to enhance their diet."

https://a-z-animals.com/blog/camels-the-deserts-ships-with-unique-adaptations-and-lifespan/

And here's one about them eating things from bones to metal to sticks when food is scarce as well, but they are domestic and thus do not have access to meat.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10970125/

[thorn grove]

It seems plausible that Ceratopsids supplemented their diet with meat but that likely goes for any large herbivore. As pointed out before isotopic analysis hasn't found any indication of meat being a significant component of their diet so it seems unlikely that they were making substantial efforts to try and acquire meat, which is how I would interpret "redefining herbivory" or the original post a little bit back calling them omnivores.

[tough parcel]

Camels are subjected to a wide variety of nutritional deficiencies as they are largely dependent upon grazing desert plants.

Oh ok so what I'm seeing is it's not the best comparison because they're desert animals and are thus subjected to severe "nutritional deficiencies" aka the reason any herbivore consumes animal matter

[flat pewter]

I wouldn't say it isnt the "best" comparison, more of that for this study in particular they were looking into Pica in domestic food camels. And I'd reason that rapid growth/ growing horns and frill would leave an animal in a similar state of nutrient deficiency in terms of needing to seek out alternative sources via animal protein

[tough parcel]

And yet the dietary study on DPF animals shows they weren't consuming meat to an extent that would show up in an isotopic breakdown

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018208002253
(Preservation of primary stable isotope signals in dinosaur remains, and environmental gradients of the Late Cretaceous of Montana and Alberta)

https://hal.science/hal-03821761/document
(The stability of dinosaur communities before the Cretaceous-Paleogene (K-Pg) boundary: A perspective from southern Alberta using calcium isotopes as a dietary proxy)

[charred hearth]

besides sizing, does sarco need anjy visual changes?

[tough parcel]

Because leaves from high vegetation tend to be more 44Ca-enriched than lower-growing plant materials (Schmitt, 2016; Moynier and Fujii, 2017;Martin et al., 2018), the 44Ca-enriched composition of hadrosaurid enamel supports the hypothesis that hadrosaurids foraged preferentially on tall plants, whereas the other megaherbivores fed on plants closer to the ground (Weishampel and Norman, 1989; see also Mallon et al., 2013). The aforementioned foraging flexibility of hadrosaurids could explain the isotopic signature overlaps occasionally observed among this clade and other megaherbivores.

This was neat

[sudden wind]

Hoping that Sarco's proportions are fixed 🙏

[charred hearth]

can you inform me what about sarcos proportions need to be fixed besides how massively oversized it is?

[sudden wind]

The head is like 1/4th of its body when in crocodylomorphs it is 1/7th

[pulsar galleon]

This isn’t an absolute rule among pseudosuchia, Sarco’s closest (well preserved) relatives have larger heads for their size iirc.

Terminonaris for example.

[fossil ingot]

Already looks better

[pulsar galleon]

The head looks much nicer, PoT’s sarco always had weird snout proportions but it looks fixed here

[fossil ingot]

Even Scaling to Sarco Closest Relatives like here.
Its Head to Body Ratio isn't ad Bad to how POT Sarco is

[worthy wave]

So did denio or Sarco have the bigger set of jaws?

[pulsar galleon]

Head to body or head to TL?

Because the HL-TL ratio is like 1:5.5 in that image

[pulsar galleon]

Sarco’s skull is longer, deino’s is overall larger though.

[worthy wave]

Ahh ok gotcha

[fossil ingot]

Sarco Skull is not longer than Deino
Not compared to the Biggest Deino like CM 963 atleast

[pulsar galleon]

is it not? Excluding the deinos that have super bad preservation I’m fairly sure sarcosuchus’ total head length is greater.

Could easily be wrong, I can’t remember deino measurements off the top of my head

[fossil ingot]

This more in for Sarco.
Let em Check for Random's Deino

[sudden wind]

Skull is still about 1/6th, which is quite far off of what old Sarco had.

[fossil ingot]

Deino seems larger yeah.
Sarvo is possibly Longer than Puru
I would had to Dounle Check the Skull Length of DGM 527-R

[pulsar galleon]

wdym?

[pulsar galleon]

Sarcosuchus’ DCL is 5cm longer I think lel

[sudden wind]

Terminonaris skull length is about 1 meters (98cm) while the entire animal is estimated at about 6 meters.

Skull is supposed to be 1/6th of the animal's body length

[pulsar galleon]

That puts the TL of the 170cm skull specimen at like 10.2 meters which is perfectly reasonable given that it’s around 8.9+ meters TL

[fossil ingot]

Scale Bar for Big Sarco is 20cm
I Can't seem to find for Puru DGM 527-R

[pulsar galleon]

That being said, head width is a better predictor of TL in extant crocs iirc, which is where estimates like 9.5m come from

Regardless, that’s less than a meter of difference, I feel like it’s safe to say it was in the ~8.5 to ~10m range

[flat pewter]

Right, I read the paper. But what the paper stated is that:
1.) The sample size of teeth does not cover every individual that has existence and never will, just the location of the Park formation they pulled from.

2.) Does not state the ages, condition, or complexity of the health/life style of each individual to show what it lived like outside of niche partitioning within other animals of a primarily Herbivorus diet.

I simply state that its entirely possible they ate meat and bone to aid in growth of head ornamentation and dietary supplementation. Perhaps most individuals in the area for the study you referenced didn't engage in that sort of behavior, at least in their final years of life before becoming fossils. But, I will still say it's entirely possible for creatures outside of that formation that were in similar or different niches to the herbivores in the Dinosaur Park Formation. I highly doubt, given that so many modern animals show signs of animal consumption to supplement a diet of plants when they need to, that not a single Ceratopsian out of their lineage that spreads millions of years, didn't engage in the same behavior. Its just not realistic to say it was always plants all the time. Saurapods, the early ones, had members who at meat and others who where omnivourus. The fact is, no species that exists today didn't have a descendent that ate something different then they did. Thats just evolution, adaptations to fit its environment and the needed caloric intake that depends on the availability of food. I'd also like to point out that supplementing ones diet in the earlier years of its life occasionally wouldn't show up clearly on isotopic analysis.

[fossil ingot]

Mmmm

[opaque kayak]

Average stomatosuchus build

[fossil ingot]

10m just seems to Big for Sarco, Given the Old 10.3m estimate was later downsized after other proportions were given for it.
8.9m is mostly the Length Given Nowdays for the Biggest Specimen

[pulsar galleon]

At least for specimens we have, I heard word of a supposed specimen that would be absolutely colossal but I’m not inclined to believe in it until it’s like actually described + given any kind of evidence that wasn’t a twitter screenshot lmao

[ancient crystal]

Calling it now, people will hate it

[opaque kayak]

Can you send the screenshot?

[fossil ingot]

Dumb reason but yeah

[pulsar galleon]

There wasn’t ever a 10.3m estimate, it was 12m in sereno’s 2001 paper

~10m is just from 1:7 HL-TL which isn’t exactly the best estimate but unfortunately sarco has no well described postcrania sadly

@opaque kayak I don’t have it lmao, I saw it over a year ago.

[ancient crystal]

First rule of fanbases, the fans hate the game

[fossil ingot]

I wouldn't even believe this tbh
This has been said so many times for alot of Animals only for them to become lost Media

[fossil ingot]

The 12m is even Older than 10.3m and shouldn't even be taken Seriously,
The 10.3m comes from Lambor Skeletal

[opaque kayak]

It's not the first time someone has alleged a huge unbelievable specimen online and didn't follow up with it

[pulsar galleon]

From what I remember it said the femur was something absurd like 96cm long, I really don’t believe that💀

[fossil ingot]

8.9m.Sarco comes from this

[hardy sentinel]

no

[opaque kayak]

Without the screenshot I wouldn't even mention it tbh

[pulsar galleon]

yeah it’s just funny because of how absurd that is

That’s bigger than the allo’s femur here, there’s no way any pseudosuchian had a femur that large unless it was a freakishly large terrestrial one💀

[hardy sentinel]

How do you know

[charred hearth]

how do you know

[fossil ingot]

Cause none of Sarco Proportions suggest that tbf

[undone rapids]

Sarcosuchus needed long legs to hunt terrestrial prey, water was dangerous for the suchomimus lived there ofc

[hardy sentinel]

I wish the voice message feature was allowed because I really wanna repeat this to you in an annoying voice

[pulsar galleon]

We don’t even have described femurs for it besides juveniles iirc

[charred hearth]

I wish the voice message feature was allowed because I really wanna repeat this to you in annoying voice

[fossil ingot]

Rampho and Grypo are cooler than Sarco anyways

[tough parcel]

Your first point does not matter in the grand scheme of the discussion because you do not classify individuals as "herbivores" or "carnivores", you classify the species/genus

Your second one is only partially applicable because of the possibility of age influencing diet however considering herbivores cannot eat meat to a high degree without falling sick, I suspect this second point does not apply either

[opaque kayak]

I just wish Rhampho had more material then random jaw bone 💔

[fossil ingot]

We can base it off Close Relatives for that.

[pulsar galleon]

abysmal take, please send this guy to the hadal zone

[opaque kayak]

If you can send me the screenshot, I can try and scale it.
Until then, it prob doesn't exist

[flat pewter]

Say what you will, I am not taking it personally, but it appears you are close minded on this subject and have chosen what you wish to believe, which I respect. Regardless, I still believe in the possibility of what I have stated. I hope you have a wonderful day, and I respect your input.

[tough parcel]

Society will tell you science is faith-based apparently

[pulsar galleon]

im looking for it

actually wait how long is the femur in fadeno's deino skeletal just for reference of an oversized croc

[flat pewter]

Faith based? Idk what you mean by that. All I am saying is I agree to disagree about what I said to start was speculation.

[tough parcel]

There's pretty solid evidence they aren't eating meat to a high degree

And you're choosing to "believe in the possibility of what I have stated"

[thorn grove]

Accusing someone of being "closed minded" for not agreeing with you (especially when they have provided substantial evidence for why) is incredibly patronizing and frankly just rude

[charred hearth]

facts

[pulsar galleon]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/295362923_FEMORAL_DIMENSIONS_AND_BODY_SIZE_OF_ALLIGATOR_MISSISSIPPIENSIS_ESTIMATING_THE_SIZE_OF_FOSSIL_CROCODYLIANS_AND_THEIR_KIN interestingly, this paper gives a length of 7.2-9.1m for an individual that was supposedly like 25% shorter than the larger sarcosuchus specimens. That's quite the range and i imagine the more recent reconstructions are a good bit more reliable

[warped peak]

Camels also have the advantage of quite harsh stomach acid IIRC to assist in digestion

[flat pewter]

I never said it was to a high degree, I said, at least 10 times at this point, that they supplemented their diets. I apologize for calling you close minded. And yes, I speculate its possible, expessially given the study you showcased feasbly cannot be every Ceratopsian to exist, because that not possible. Which for me, means there is still a chance as no one can ever say with 100% certainty that they never did that. Modern day herbivores supplement, which to me, means its possible for bigger and more robust animals of the past to do the same. Thats all I am saying and all that I meant.

[scenic flame]

• modern herbivores eating meat is a very over exaggerated phenomenon, the vast majority of cases you may think of such as deers eating birds chicks etc is done purely for acquiring calcium etc to aid in antler growth etc, osteophagy is not a thing that make herbivores carnivorous as it is a purely mineral driven behaviour.

• cases where normally strict herbivores eat meat does not make them omnivorous has it is caused by malnutrition etc, causing them to desperately seek out any form of sustanence regardless of whether or not they're actually adapted to it.

• If you feed a cow/deer/horse nothing but plant based foods it's entire life it will have no deficiencies, because they are infact strict herbivores

Humans aren't detritivores just because when extremely starving we might consider eating manure

[native kindle]

(which is exactly the kind of comparison being made)
there's nothing more to be said on the topic, there's no need to try and emphasize that maybe sometimes herbivores had 0.05% of their diet as meat. it makes no difference in how they lived

[flat pewter]

Same thing for a lot of Herbivores too, surprisingly enough. Elephants sometimes seek out their own dung when growing to get healthy gut bacteria for digesting the same material as their peers.

[scenic flame]

That's completely unrelated to the point I made

[native kindle]

but that's not eating dung as a dietary staple into adulthood

[scenic flame]

i.e. fungus, certain invertebrates, etc

[flat pewter]

Whats the point being made? I am a bit confused. What you stated is all that I agree with and all that I am saying is that ceratopsians could and would do the same in times of horn growth and low nutrition.

Love your work btw

[scenic flame]

horn growth would mainly just require calcium, nawing on bones etc or osteophagy does not make an animal omnivorous, you were tmk stating that it did.

My point about manure was that you don't say humans have poop as apart of the their diet just because a severely starved person might try to eat it out of desperation, the same way you wouldn't call a cow omnivorous because it ate a bird because it was starving to death.

[flat pewter]

I see, I admit I may have used my terminology incorrectly. I will say though, I think its odd how Hadrosaurs ate shell fish a few different times throughout their lives, intentionally. The leading theory on this appears to be preparation with Egg laying, as they would need the calcium and proteins for the eggs. Does that make them omnivourus depending on season? Or is this just Herbivorus animals supplementing diet?

[scenic flame]

TMK if it's done purely for mineral content then it wouldn't, if it was for energetic needs etc then it would be

[flat pewter]

Interesting. The true odd ball of this has to be Limusaurus though. When its young it's a voracious carnivore, but as it grew, its teeth were replaced with a beak and they transitioned into herbivores. It makes me wonder: what other dinosaurs, if any, where like that? A lot of baby dinosaurs were not fossilized, because fossil preservation bias. Which sucks. I hate fossil bias.

[hardy sentinel]

I see

[charred ermine]

[charred hearth]

what visual changes have the tlc made to sarco so far?

[charred hearth]

like, how much better or different is this compared to the original?

[fossil ingot]

Head is more Croc Like
Doesn't look as Big headed as before

[charred hearth]

you think it'll get downsized?

[drifting condor]

Both eocarchia?

[charred hearth]

thoughts on the cambrian period?

[drifting condor]

Btw Rugops deserves way more recognition

[charred hearth]

do polar bears count as marine mammals?

[drifting condor]

What do you define a marine mammal as

[glass vessel]

Where can I find these fish’s

[charred hearth]

the ocean

[charred hearth]

uhm...mammals that primarily live in the ocean?

[little mauve]

Diet certainly shifted with ontogeny in all dinosaurs. I agree with the heart of your point that sauropsids in general and archosaurs in particular are perhaps more highly flexible in their diet and dietary needs than mammals. Like so many things I think mammals are a poor comparison to dinosaurs in this respect. A young growing dinosaur, or one with display structures that really heighten at sexual maturity, or a pregnant female like you mentioned all might have a higher protein, calcium, etc need than an equivalent sized mammal. However, that doesn't make said dinosaur an omnivore, it just means they are a particular type of herbivore. Likewise for a multitude of reasons bears and boars are poor proxies for ceratopsians. I can see your point on a lot of it though. Isotopes don't tell the whole story but they give us categories in which to place things and ceratopsians were categorically low browsing herbivores

The new paleomeme should be mid sized theropods eating the rotting flesh scented fruit of early angiosperms

[glass vessel]

I need one for my aquarium

[charred hearth]

facts

[fossil ingot]

Maybe
Prob not much

[charred hearth]

how oversized even is it?

[stiff osprey]

iirc POT sarco is 12 meters so ~25%

[balmy oyster]

Only a small maxilia

[bright sluice]

That new really spiky ankylosaur reminds of when a bird has a keratin growth disorder and their nails and beak get really long and weird, not saying that ankylosaur had one, but would be interesting to see a dinosaur with one

[charred ermine]

☠️

[warped peak]

Eocarcharia is a spinosaur by name now, although there are Carcharodont elements, they are not what is known as Eocarcharia anymore

[hardy sentinel]

I think it's a dinosaur

[drifting condor]

Still the goat or maybe i just like African dinosaurs

[stiff osprey]

Don't be rude. It has a whole 5 bones

[drifting condor]

See its the goat

[balmy oyster]

Wait really? I really did think it was only a maxilia, where did the rest come from

[hardy sentinel]

The ground

[opal acorn]

you are wrong, it came from the sky fr

[sullen cairn]

kryptops is the partial maxilla one

[outer tusk]

30 foot long killing machine

[balmy oyster]

oh

[severe yew]

is that a camel skull on the right? 💀

• i didn't know they had huge sharp canines

[severe yew]

i have one better

Triceratops was a carnivore!

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-happy-new-year-gif-24516985

[stark roost]

Any extinct animals we know have a proboscis

[hardy sentinel]

Mammoth

[sudden wind]

Lot of non vertebrates have a proboscis, even among extinct taxa

[hardy sentinel]

Invertebrates ☝️🤓

[halcyon cobalt]

desmatosuchus potentially

[sudden wind]

Uhm, invertebrates is not a clade so I prefer to refer them non vertebrates!

[halcyon cobalt]

why not simply list every single clade that lack vertebrae and posses members with proboscis?

[hardy sentinel]

They're both clades, one is paraphyletic and the other is monophyletic

[harsh forge]

What is our current understanding of sarcos looks? Chonk or slim?

[empty steeple]

Slim

[empty steeple]

Bro's living in the 1920s

[harsh forge]

Thank you <3

[coral forge]

2030s*

[hardy sentinel]

Well ya see it isn't called the shark tooth lizard for nothing, it will detach it's teeth the teeth will swim like tiny sharks to kill the Sauropod and drag it out of the water

[coral forge]

how accurate is fadeno's 90 ton 52 meter barosaurus?

[coral forge]

they get chased out by the territorial onchopristis who doesn't tolerate other sharks

[hallow spear]

The YPM one or the BYU one

[coral forge]

YPM

[hallow spear]

Ignore it, there is no reason that should even be regarded as Barosaurus

[coral forge]

alr
I was looking for anything about 41 on here and stumbled across it

a diplodocid being almost as tall as brachiosaurus felt off

is it just a giant maara or smth

[hallow spear]

Which

[coral forge]

the giant baro
I'll highlight it 1 sec

[sudden wind]

Praphyly is stinky

[hallow spear]

It’s just outdated most likely

[sudden wind]

Also no, a clade IS a monophyletic group by definition.

[frigid delta]

so how heavy is Baro's actual weight?
genuine

[coral forge]

is it still a sauropod just not barosaurus or does it straight up just not exist anymore

[tiny holly]

I could be wrong but last I remember hearing the giant "barosaurus" remains are probably supersaurus?

[scenic flame]

tmk the biggest ones are Supersaurus now but there are still some very big Baro specimens

[unreal sigil]

i wonder if some dinosaurs had like.. the things chickens and ducks and turkeys have sometimes
like the red thing

[tiny holly]

Almost definitely, there's plenty of birds with extraneous tissue like that. And our sample size is purely just the modern day birds we live with, compared to the hundreds of millions of years non-avian dinosaurs were around for. But good luck knowing what exactly, because that's not something likely to preserve outside of exceptional circumstances

[sharp dragon]

Are we forgetting Edmontosaurus Regalis here?

[tiny holly]

TRUE but that's a little idiot nubbin compared to the freaky stuff muscovies have going on

[sharp dragon]

Or the stuff you have going on.
Yeah i know you have waddles, you can't hide them anymore Serpenatarius, if that even is your real name.

[tiny holly]

I always forget it was just a soft tissue structure in E. regalis

[tiny holly]

ironically enough my namesake DOES have a noteworthy fleshy bit on the face. Just not that extreme and probably not what they're known for quite as much

[sharp dragon]

Mulch in your pool.
There is now Mulch in your pool, you're welcome.
CARNIVORES TROPHY ROOM? WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?

[frigid delta]

of all hadrosaurs that ever walked on earth, E. Regalis is actually my least favorite hadros cuz idk its crest makes it looks weird
i love Edmontosaurus, but only Annectens. Regalis is just a big no no for me, srry

[native kindle]

a large amount of archosaurs have caruncle in some form or another, even without being big and fleshy

[sharp dragon]

God, how dare a simple hadrosaur want some fashion in their lives, oh the humanity.

[tiny holly]

im just saying go big or go home. Saurolophus looks silly for much the same reason

[frigid delta]

a duck and an egg stealer...

[tiny holly]

Parasaurolophus and lambeosaurus? Now there's some hadrosaurs that understood the assignment thankyou very much.

[native kindle]

crocs and tortoises have it around their nostrils iirc, a lot of extant birds have it around their eyes as well. caruncle is really just any fleshy bits, doesn't have to be full on tumor necks

[tiny holly]

Ugh god I hate it on the ibis here so much, it looks like inflamed scales on the back of their heads why can't they keep the cute black feathers they have as juveniles

[ancient crystal]

Because then they wouldn't be as good at eating refuse

[sharp dragon]

Are we just going to ignore the Herald of Death itself in the top left?

[tiny holly]

bin juice 🤤

[crystal dock]

2013 was so goat'd

[open compass]

Those spines

[tiny holly]

love how the first one is based on hartman's 2012 skeletal, but isn't actually the skeletal

[crystal dock]

Yeah it's a slightly edited version of it

[sharp dragon]

What in the name of all what is possibly holy is that?
Grandma's lawn decoration escaped everyone, and it is PISSED.

I hate when my Jurassic World Funko Pop comes to life.

[fierce quarry]

How accurate is Sarco's new model ?

[ancient crystal]

Man, why don't I get pinged for updates anymore?

[compact leaf]

I don’t think the full model is out yet is it? we just saw the top of the head

[ancient crystal]

TLC is out

[compact leaf]

I stand corrected I didn’t get a ping either

[ancient crystal]

People are already complaining

[fierce quarry]

They are, apparently it's ugly and goofy

[unreal sigil]

big ahh nose

[sharp sonnet]

it’s honestly not even that bad. The way people are complaining i thought it was worse xD

[tulip stream]

Reason why I genuinely don’t like this community

[rancid dove]

Guys, you can make a size comparison between old sarco and the new one

[sudden wind]

What I don't like are the textures

What is going on here

[low raven]

Am I the only one a bit annoyed they referred to it as dinosaur tlc when talking about the sarco ?

[ancient crystal]

Yes, like in most games like this, dinosaur is just a general term used for all their playables

[low raven]

Could literally just say creature tlc if they don’t want to be specific lol

[tulip stream]

I was worried about the snout textures

[open compass]

Sarco had big nose

[shell parrot]

SARCO'S imperator sub is literally 90>% accurate 🥀 🥀 🥀 these mfs looking at the gharial-inspired swim sub and complaining that it doesn't look like a sarco... that's because swim sub LOOKS LIKE A GHARIAL

[coral forge]

anyone know where I can find a good camarasaurus lentus and dyslocosaurus skeletal

[grand bone]

is new sarco legs became up right posture?

[grand bone]

You are not alone.

[opaque kayak]

Why does he look 🥀

[ancient crystal]

Caiman stylised subspecies

[open compass]

First sub is the best one

[sacred whale]

Sarco body posture giving me caiman vibes

[full lagoon]

For those complaining about the new model, it actually holds up better to the real thing.

[ancient crystal]

Again, they don't care. They want to hate it

[kindred night]

Yeah no anatomically the new Sarco is really really good.

Again don't make me tap the sign,

"Just because a reconstruction doesn't look like your favorite piece of Paleoart doesn't mean it's a more or less correct interpretation of the material preserved"

[full lagoon]

Yeah I'm sure but I'd like to share regardless. Maybe one person will learn something.

[coral forge]

Its impossible to do something that everyone will like. The people who are complaining about sarco are the same people who complained about spino and think jp rex looks better than real rex.

People just hate for the sake of hating, thats just human nature

[chilly knot]

It looks tuff

[lost moon]

I really like the new Sarco model! I’m not sure how I feel about the swim sprint animation, the back legs flailing doesn’t feel very efficient to me but maybe there’s some merit to that I don’t know. the tail movement is nicer though

[steel fog]

Real, I got no time for people who play this game and moan whilst also having no paleo knowledge and just wanting unrealistic stuff

[unreal sigil]

yes he have big ahh nose

[ancient crystal]

At this point the devs have got to start putting actual reconstructions alongside their TLC announcements. I think people were expecting deinosuchus for the sarco TLC

[balmy oyster]

If you saw this & thought it was DeinoS, alongside how every single thing in these teasers up to now has been a tlc

That’s on you

[ancient crystal]

I think most of the hate is on them anyway tbh, they clearly haven't been paying attention to the art direction the game has been taking and get upset when every TLC remains consistent with that art direction.

[thorn grove]

of the problems I have with this game, the models are not one

this TLC looks good

[frigid delta]

regardless of what ppl said abt the tlc, Sarco is still my fav crocodile since my childhood

[lost moon]

sarco’s one of my favorite extinct animals too and I like that the TLC model is very nice for it. that thin snout and big nose bump is what makes Sarco’s silhouette stick out so I’ve never gotten why people want it to just kind of be a big crocodile

[arctic crane]

Ok so could sarcs death roll? I know a study said they couldn't because of their snouts, but both modern gharial species can and they have proportionately thinner snouts

[scenic flame]

tmk it couldn't, but it was more or less half and half between fish and terrestrial dinosaur prey based off of tooth isotopes

[lost moon]

I think it’s suggested that it probably wouldn’t be doing it to live prey because of stress to the skull - the study you’re referencing found it wasn’t built for it and suggested it probably only used it for feeding iirc. I’m not sure whether we can really guess that based only on that stress test, though (but it’s still valuable information)

[arctic crane]

I suppose that's one of those we'll never truly know things. I'll just assume it could at least for feeding if not dispatching prey since I've seen malayan gharials don't with my own eyes

[lost moon]

you’ve seen that in person?? that sounds like a really cool experience

[arctic crane]

My local zoo has one and I was lucky enough to be there when they fed it a chicken. A plucked chicken might not be a particularly sturdy meal but bro was spinning

[lost moon]

that’s very interesting

[boreal vessel]

I always find it weird that people who choose to play a game known for having accurate models then get mad because they don't like the accurate features on a model. Like, curate your experience better then?

[arctic crane]

Of the two gharial species malayans get less attention than indian ones. Kinda a shame honestly they are really cool. After seeing one in person I did a lot of research on them. Apparently they've been known to go after larger prey than previously thought possible by a crocodilian with as thin a snout as they have the largest I know of is a water buffalo being taken by a large adult Malayan gharial

I know sarcosuchus and modern gharials aren't very closely related so probably not a great comparison but they do look very similar at least at a glance

[ancient crystal]

Today I learned the Quagga is still alive, in the sense that the Plains Zebra had its binomial name changed to E. quagga

[charred hearth]

did sarco get any resizing?

[scenic flame]

no

[arctic crane]

Looking at the new sarco model it looks less like the old bug eyed Indian gharial inspired design and more like a West African slender-snouted crocodile

At least on s. imperator. The swim stam sub still looks very gharial-esk

[hazy basalt]

I do think sarcos head posture does look a bit unnatural or forced since it was such a large animal. Looks a lot better crouched.

Large animal with a particularly large head.

[arctic crane]

I agree. I wish the belly walk was default and the high walk was toggle
But hey at least it's front teeth don't clip through it bottom jaw when it opens its mouth now

[charred hearth]

hi

[fossil ingot]

Seems closer to 11m than its Old 12m

[fossil ingot]

The Base Sub looks Very Sarco like to me

[charred hearth]

good thing?

[arctic crane]

Ya, it looks pretty accurate. I'm talking about the flesh parts though. The eyes and ears look more like that of a slender snouted crocodile than a gharial with the bugged out eyes it used to have. Its standing and sitting posture looks kinda like a caiman though

[fossil ingot]

Tbf Sarco's Skull resembled more that of some Crocs than that of a Gharial

[ancient crystal]

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/explode-mind-fortress-mind-fortress-gif-3584657917390600129

[bright veldt]

It seems it was a downsize but not by too much. Still oversized but it's less obvious now. Might have to do with mechanical stuff relating to its role n' all that.

I'm mixed on the TLC personally. The model looks much better now, but I thought it was already pretty decent before, and I'm really not a fan of the new posture and movement. I don't know why they refuse to make the reptiles actually move like reptiles unless it's under specific circumstances.

[drifting condor]

I love African dinosaurs man

[outer tusk]

who ghost ping

[patent mist]

It moves a lot more like a crocodile than it did before. Cuban crocodiles are pretty upright when the sit and move afaik. If I had to guess a lot of why the animals don't feel that reptile like is just due to how active they are. They wouldn't fit as well with the rest of the roster if they weren't sped up

[bright veldt]

Why does it need to high walk is the thing. It doesn't move like its a high walk. It moves like a dinosaur or early triassic reptile.

It was less obvious before but it's so awkward seeing a crocodile run like that.

[arctic crane]

Sarco moves more reptilian than meg. It's not bad though it's posture is very caiman like which looks weird on such a large animal

[bright veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/cutie-crocodile-running-away-cute-funny-gif-27690804

A crocodile's high walk is like this, the legs still walk out to the side as it goes, and there's some side-to-side movement of its body. Not whatever the sarco ingame is doing.

[lethal owl]

I love spinos

[winter marsh]

I like what devs are doing with the new TLCs aka adding new genus to the subspecies of a creature (Einio and Stella for Styrac, Grypo and what I think is supposed to resemble a Purussaurus to Sarco) but damn, realism servers gonna have a tough time with these

[warped peak]

(thick sub Sarco is actually a species of Sarco)

[winter marsh]

which is?

[charred hearth]

argentina sarco

[winter marsh]

hartti?

[tough parcel]

What no? The swim speed sub is hartii

It's labeled hartii

[warped peak]

Wasn't swim stamina sub gharial

[winter marsh]

its gharial but the sub's name is hartti. Honestly idk why they didnt just change the order by making palustribus the gharial and hartti the thicko

[outer tusk]

wait why is there a subspeices name gharial

[bright veldt]

I'm confused as to what the difference is. S. imperator and S. hartti are actual sarcosuchus species.

[charred hearth]

@sudden wind

[stark roost]

Ajaxs that much bigger then louisae?

[stark roost]

This Spinosaurus Design feels familiar idk how tho 😭

[stark roost]

Wait is sarco oversized?

[balmy oyster]

By the looks of it yes, since the irl one is supposed to be at most 9m (but apparently still above 10+ meters ingame)

[fossil ingot]

Pre TLC Sarco was 12m
Rn its about 11mish

Irl Deino, Pre TLC Sarco and KTO Deino

[frigid delta]

can i have that Randomdinos Deinos skeletal pls?

[opal acorn]

yea sarco does seem to be shrunk a bit (sorry for the rushed 2nd photo)
-# left = tlc
-# right = before tlc

forgot to reply to the message

[fluid inlet]

“Running “ walking with confidence

[arctic crane]

Now let's see a croc run

[wind prairie]

Scanova has returned, rejoice

[coral forge]

I think the ajax in the original chart is a bit oversized

[lavish frigate]

Am I crazy or does old sarco look like sarcosuchus and new sarco doesn’t look like sarcosuchus? 💀

Am I tripping because this looks weird lol

[lavish frigate]

Idk what it is, maybe it’s just vibes, but something just feels fundamentally not sarcosuchus about this design

[arctic crane]

It's possible the standing posture. It looks off for something that big to just stand like that effortlessly. It has a very caiman like posture for an animal that probably weighed a few tons. Other than that though the model is really good

[crystal star]

is that ai or do crocs really run like that

[arctic crane]

It saddens me that that has to be a legitimate question. But yes it's really not all Crocs can run like that but some do

[crystal star]

damn! i mean ive been watching nature documentaries my entire life and this is the first time i see it

[arctic crane]

The Crocs that can do that don't get as much attention as saltwaters and Niles. Cuban Crocs and Johnstone's crocs are the ones I know for sure can

[manic roost]

it would probably be worse for the sarco since its jaw was built for fishing and not really hunting land prey, while deino has a more robust jaw, the kind that could probably snap a bone when it got its hold on something

[balmy oyster]

This isn’t a true statement, sarco’s jaws were just as good for handling large prey, even if slimmer than something like puru & deinoS.

[manic roost]

not sure, some even argue that sarcos jaws wouldn't be capable of handling deathrolls without damage to the animal itself

[balmy oyster]

It most likely could’ve had a more piscivorous diet but the thickness of its jaws still show it would’ve been able to hunt down larger terrestrial prey pretty decently

[balmy oyster]

To be fair none of the mega crocs would’ve been able to deathroll due to sheer size, so this could apply to the rest as well

Modern crocs start to struggle when reaching certain larger sizes, so now imagine the same thing but 3 - 5x larger

[manic roost]

guess you dont need a deathroll to maul the suchomimus juvenile to death

[open compass]

That's not ai

[plain spade]

i think sarcpsuchus hartii is an actual genus no?

[halcyon cobalt]

species?

[plain spade]

species yeah mb lol

[mystic kestrel]

Does anyone know the average weight estimate of an Euthecodon?

[tough parcel]

My favorite part is this doesn't address the 90% of the animal that lies behind the head

[coral forge]

ive only seen people complaining about the skull so like

[bright veldt]

People REALLY need to be reminded of what gharial skulls actually look like for how common of an opinion this is.

[ancient crystal]

I saw someone say it wasn't about the width of sarco's snout, but how thin it's jaws are

Which made me realize some people will not let go of the notion sarco is a giant gharial

[tough parcel]

You see, Sarco had a pot and it's in PoT so it's a gharial

[brisk estuary]

Apparently the test for that was dud they tried that test on a croc that could death roll and it said they couldn't

[coral forge]

Didn't sarco fill the same niche as nile crocodiles meaning its jaw was built for a mix of both

[brisk estuary]

Also false gharials do death rolls they have slender jaws

False gharials jaws

They also hunt things like deer

[opaque kayak]

I love this

[bright veldt]

Isotopic studies show that sarcosuchus wasn't really that different in diet from any other large macropredatory crocodile like a nile or saltie.

[coral forge]

Depends on the species of deino

It would get 1 shot by hatcheri and probably lose to riograndensis and thus would probably avoid them where possible but I could see it fighting rugosus and schwimmeri

[warped peak]

And what size of animals are tomistoma documented rolling

[brisk estuary]

They eat deer and livestock

[warped peak]

Thats not what I asked. What size of animals are they documented rolling

[brisk estuary]

Large prey like deer and each other

[warped peak]

Any particular type of deer?

[brisk estuary]

Sambar deer for one

[bright veldt]

D. hatcheri and D. riograndensis are synonyms for all intents and purposes, and D. schwimmeri has replaced D. rugosus.

[dense oracle]

Hey, apparently spino got new weight estimates that put it around 11 metric tons, huh?

https://www.italianjournalofgeosciences.it/297/article-1220/beyond-the-stromer-s-riddle-the-impact-of-lumping-and-splitting-hypotheses-on-the-systematics-of-the-giant-predatory-dinosaurs-from-northern-africa.html

Here's the paper

[steep atlas]

Where’s the weight estimate in there? 11 tons is a hard sell

[dense oracle]

That's the paper that a news video talking about it listed as fonts

I'm posting it here to see if yall got any other sources tbh

But ya, I'm also kinda skeptical about it

[undone rapids]

11 tonne Spino is probably possible if you apply methods like Matt Dempsey paper, which generally would probably make alot of animals heavier since more soft tissue is given there. Though that paper isn't really about weight estimates iirc

This is funny though

[steep atlas]

Yeah it’s more about soft tissue distribution for different dinosaurs. It is useful for weight estimates though, just that we can’t really replicate their methods at home

[undone rapids]

You can, if you have a scanned 3D skeleton. Its not too hard, but yeah harder than stuff like GDIs. I tried it with a sculpted carnotaurus skeleton model, it was fun.

[tough parcel]

Wasn't the main takeaway from Dempsey's paper that we shouldn't be so rigorous in our size estimates because techniques and soft tissue application varies? Not that dinosaurs are all bigger now

[stiff osprey]

11 tonne Spino is not related to Dempsey's methods, it's based on a single incomplete toe bone that Cau estimates to be 45% larger than the neotype when complete

Which like. Toe bone scaling is already one of the worst forms of scaling. Incomplete toe bone scaling is even worse

[undone rapids]

But what's the worst form of scaling possible?

with the exception of Footprints and stuff.

[stiff osprey]

Probably tooth scaling for theropods, or like carpal bone scaling

[ancient crystal]

At some point in the cretaceous a spinosaurus stubbed its toe and now people are saying spino is 11 tons

[balmy oyster]

Honestly I’d argue toe bone scaling is worse, since yes teeth are variable but truthfully you nearly never get any superbehemoths from just teeth if you know what you’re doing

Meanwhile we’ve gotten several gigantic theropods before based on toebones before people started applying logic

[balmy oyster]

This paper is also kind of bad too. Only good part about it is eocarcharia & yutyrannus discussion. (And if I’m not thinking about another paper, acro as well)

[stiff osprey]

You can usually avoid monsters with tooth scaling by assuming that the tooth is the biggest one the animal had. Which is done by convenience but technically there's no reason to believe that

[balmy oyster]

Omw to scale with the tiniest tooth
27 ton theropod

[stiff osprey]

Toes actually have a more or less defined position so you can't just assume it was the biggest phalanx

they just suck because toe size can vary by 20% or more between same sized individuals

[empty steeple]

The biggest Tomistoma registred have 8 meters length.

But usually the average is 6-5 meters

[ancient crystal]

So what's the large greyed out skull closest to Steve?

[bright veldt]

What? No. No crocodilian averages 6 meters. Only 1 living individual in the entirety of crocodylia has been confirmed to reach 6 meters at all (Lolong) and while there are skulls that might suggest bigger they are justifiably kept as speculation.

[charred hearth]

thoughts on these two statements?

[bright veldt]

The new sarco is more accurate and science doesn't care about those opinions. Reminds me of when spinosaurus was first added to the game.

[ancient crystal]

"Super croc"

[warped peak]

The name "supercroc" is stupid and objectively hurts the vision of the animal

[open compass]

Old sarco had huge head why people are saying old is better

[charred hearth]

did browser discord get a new font or something

[jagged trellis]

hence why sarcosmoocher is the objectively better title

[ancient crystal]

I do wish the standing posture was different, I wonder why they designed it that way?

Maybe some issue with the rig?

[warped peak]

Because it looks bigger and more intimidating

[charred hearth]

using a gharial as a refrence when reconstructing sarco is incorrect, right?

[ancient crystal]

Sarco players just have delusions of grandeur and think they should be able to drag a dasp under water, so basically no matter what the devs did, they wouldn't have been happy

[warped peak]

I'm not sure why everyone acts like the posture is so weird

[coral forge]

I saw someone on a community server asking to let sarco grab iguanodon because its "fun and realistic"

[charred hearth]

sarco isnt even grabbing lurdusaurus

[warped peak]

Realism is Iggy is double Sarco's size lmao

[coral forge]

well yeah lurd was the biggest thing in its ecosystem

[open compass]

Meanwhile iggy was 2t bigger than sarco 😔

[bright veldt]

Sharing this again for a comparison. People really love comparing it to a gharial without even knowing what a gharial skull looks like.

[coral forge]

7t iggy is back?

[ancient crystal]

The absolute last person you should ever take seriously about any matter on this game is a realism player

I speak from years of unfortunate experience

[coral forge]

They also said deinosuchus should realistically be able to drag a rex

[jagged trellis]

i too sadly know the horrors

realism servers when actual realism comes in( its not a 18 step rule to allow a rex to leave the woods only at 4
-5 pm)

[bright veldt]

Crocodiles struggle to drag prey that isn't smaller than they are. Only the biggest nile crocodiles take zebras and wildebeest let alone anything else larger.

[warped peak]

Deinosuchus fans hate being told Tyrannosaurus is twice its size so just do that

[bright veldt]

real

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/prehistoric-park-gif-18317622390607313038

[ashen wedge]

No!!!!

[charred hearth]

was that para or charnosaurus, i lowkey forgot what happens in that episode

[steep atlas]

Para

[coral forge]

realism servers realising nocturnal animals dont exclusively hunt at night and actually do stuff during the day other than sleep and vice versa

[ashen wedge]

Para

[steep atlas]

That ep takes place in north america, hence the deinosuchus

[ashen wedge]

And as a parasaurolophus lover, I hate seeing it being attacked, but get it was prey

[charred hearth]

i have a question, how much danger was martha in here ?

[steep atlas]

A lot

[charred hearth]

matilda was just a menance in that show

[coral forge]

is Martha the rex or the mammoth

[charred hearth]

matilda was beating her brothers ass any chance she got

[coral forge]

not a lot then considering the rex has broken arms and is severely malnourished and thus probably can't fight properly

[jagged trellis]

martha would've gotten hard combo'd and carried into down aired off stage if the elephant horde didn't arrive ong

[steep atlas]

I always thought their T rex model looked more like albertosaurus or something

[charred hearth]

the elephant horde didnt even arrive, matilda just though nigel was worth it more

[coral forge]

ngl elephants are cooked against anything in their general size range

[charred hearth]

im not even gonna lie, im pretty sure the model was one, just retexture / changed slightly

[steep atlas]

They don’t have that much going for them besides tusks. Better off than hadrosaurs at least

[charred hearth]

combat isnt everything

[jagged trellis]

oh wait was that another segment then
zamn
which tbf nigel got that zang

[ancient crystal]

You know, I somehow struggle to see how broken arms would do much to impede a tyrannosaurus

[charred hearth]

i love you prehestoric park https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWw3w7ncBJk

[fierce quarry]

Depends on what the arms where used for exactly

[charred hearth]

the deinosuchus scene is still one of the most cinamatic shots of all times in paleo media

[ashen wedge]

50%

[jagged trellis]

i'm mature
i'm mature
uh to stop chin itches ofc

[ancient crystal]

Well you see crocodiles do indeed have jaws

[charred hearth]

did any marine crocodile even get larger then bruce ( the shark from jaws )

[stiff osprey]

my counterargument for the matilda vs martha fight is that matilda is canonically only like 5 years old and thus should have been too small to threaten a mammoth

[charred hearth]

what size would she have been at 5?