paleontology

[thorn grove]

ok thanks

[light osprey]

I need to see it next to a 1.8m tall silhouette

[stiff osprey]

I would do that if i were home

[zenith rose]

Tried my best to measure this out for you.

Any inaccuracies are my fault

All skeletal credits go to Dan Folkes of course

[frigid delta]

i got overslept and forgot to post their size info

[opaque kayak]

Very nice

[hardy sentinel]

Is Mimicry among cats, like Tigers mimicking bovids and House Cats mimicking birds to name a few an ancestral trait or independently evolved?

If it's ancestral, is there a possibility that Saber-toothed felids could mimic prey as well? I know there wouldn't be proof for it directly but seeing as modern felids can do it wouldn't it stand to reason that now ancient felids could too?

[plucky basin]

new animal lore unlocked

[tough parcel]

If you can prove these are done with the intent of mimicry and then if you can prove more than two cats do this with predatory intent, then you might have something maybe

But afaik (and I've only heard of domestic cat clicking), it isn't exactly useful in hunting (if used at all...?)

[manic grail]

Why did WWD say 11 meters long?

[hardy sentinel]

Domestic cats clicking usually tries to imitate the octave of bird calls, which will draw them closer regardless of how the cat actually sounds, as well as cat clicking being able to mimic squirrels better than how they mimic birds.

I don't know how often it's used but I do know that tigers mimic cows and deer and then proceed to have a successful hunt.

I think it needs more research but felid mimicry is successful at times and it's just a matter of if the felid learned it from its parents (as I read somewhere cats without parents that mimic don't end up mimicking)

[frigid delta]

maybe Sobek is based on the holotype (?)

[manic grail]

Oh

[hardy sentinel]

I think the main thing halting research on domestic cats actually having successful hunts using mimicry is that they are kinda invasive everywhere so you can't just let a cat loose, and mimicry only happens in some cats

Also the fact that nobody has a real motive to research that kinda thing because I think the most we got from it is "my cat clicks when it's near squirrels and birds and goes into a hunting mood"

[tough parcel]

WWD is based on the neotype (which is like 2-3% larger than the holotype so)

[tough parcel]

I mean do you have solid numbers to say that mimicking is successful or is this vibes-based

[frigid delta]

i'm kinda dissapointed that they didn't use like msnm or nhmuk but whatever, they do they

[frigid delta]

pffftt

[hardy sentinel]

I can't find exact numbers, but the best I can find is that animals the tiger is mimicking tend to come closer

Damn I wish there was more research on this subject it's so interesting

[tough parcel]

Considering the series is based around current finds and the neotype is still being excavated, this makes sense to use the neotype

@hardy sentinel evidence you too can write a research paper? I believe in you. You don't need a PhD to write one...

[lavish frigate]

I just found the most terrifying thing I’ve ever laid eyes upon

[hardy sentinel]

Looks like the "dinosaurs didn't have lips" crowd doesn't discriminate

[lavish frigate]

Unfortunately

[hardy sentinel]

I feel like the "dinosaurs didn't have lips" crowd is mostly a bunch of people still hung up on Jurassic park because most of the people I argue with about it seem to act like depictions of Dromeosaurids, Troodontids, and Sauropods with lips aren't an issue to their ideas

[dusk lotus]

Dropping this here then running away

[wind prairie]

it's because the dromaeosaurids and sauropods that were in jp DID have lips

[compact leaf]

as far as mimicry goes margay are the most prominent examples of it but it isn’t a widespread strategy

[tough parcel]

Good for them 🤗 glad they came out in time for Pride Month!

[compact leaf]

falcon so help me god

[halcyon cobalt]

is heterodontosaurus’s dentition more comparable to boar or fanged deer

[hardy sentinel]

Boar number wise, fanged deer shape wise (depending on the species)

[fluid inlet]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[white matrix]

most inaccurate sauroposeidon ever

[serene moat]

Dinosaurs with lips>without, looks sm better having lips than none 🥱🥱🥱🥱

[halcyon cobalt]

Woah there buddy calm down with the hot takes

[topaz shell]

bro I thought that was an old art piece

[wraith jay]

I hâte spino fans that thinks the spino is stronger than t rex just by the fact spino wins in JP3

[topaz shell]

That’s mainly only the jp fans
Most times

[wraith jay]

Yeah

[fluid inlet]

Is been 24 years let it go

[jagged trellis]

besides spino wins in the aggressive air game with how much range and air speed it has w slight floatiness

[peak jetty]

Spino neutral air has no opening or end lag and too many options out of neutral

[wraith jay]

Spino isn't good as t rex in battle because spinosaurus aegyptiacus fished and don't hunt contrarly the t rex hunt big prey like edmontosaurus triceratops and others

[jagged trellis]

you forgot spinos neutral ranged moves dealing stun

[opaque kayak]

TBF in JP lore fan terms it's a lot more justified

[halcyon cobalt]

T rex was a lowly scavenger while spinosaurus hunted sauropods

[wraith jay]

Dofus it's fake t rex was scavenger when they old and WTF spinosaurus didn't hunted sauropods where you find that information

[blissful compass]

will spino tlc give it a quadruped stance?

[frigid delta]

hell nah

[tulip dove]

This is so real

[tribal ridge]

We all know this juys

[potent bobcat]

Is Allosaurus bigger or smaller than Daspletosaurus?

[halcyon cobalt]

depends

[native kindle]

most allosaurus are smaller than most daspletosaurus with the specimens we have

some allos get larger than the largest dasps, but its like 3-4? of them out of the dozens we have

[sudden wind]

Was about to say that : most Allos are smaller, within the 1-2 tons range, while most Dasp are in the high 2 tons and some above 4 iirc ? Yet if you consider A.anax, the specimen is thought to be above 5 or 6 tons. Some A.fragilis specimen are thought to be like 4 tons or so.

[native kindle]

i think its just one thats close to 4? but in comparison with the maybe 2-3 for allo they're basically just the same size with allo on average smaller

[sudden wind]

Yeah

[wraith jay]

Spinosaurus changed a bit

[coarse mesa]

I will name him Cletus.

[fossil ingot]

No Dasp is above 4t Atm.
The Only Dasp thats veey Close to it is Pete III at 3.7-3.9t

[wraith jay]

Guys what do you think about the fact that the mononycus face looks like a owl and he have a long tongue in Prehistoric planet

[hallow spear]

Fragilis gets a lot larger if you included the amplexus specimens which is also plausible

The NMMNH specimen itself is like 4.2-4.6t, which is regarded as fragilis

[halcyon cobalt]

okay speculation

[potent bobcat]

Was Tapejara a frugivore?

[cloud breach]

Yes

[ivory crest]

My biggest flex is that my father knew the guy that they named T. Mcraeensis after

[placid stump]

Hi I'm back

[balmy oyster]

No it’s true Rex couldn’t properly hunt because of the ferocious musth induced edmontosaurus with a completely truthful average size of 16 tons

[pliant gull]

imagine if ts was a real thing wtf looks like my dog

[manic grail]

And trex used its bone crushing bite to crush and eat the bones of the carcass so it gets full and doesnt hunt

[pliant gull]

ngl spinofaarus mod when

[thorn grove]

edmusthosaurus hunted t rex

[pliant gull]

t res dint hunt bcus it was fat edmont ate plant so it hunt rex

[pliant gull]

edmont aeveage size 25 tons

[manic grail]

You forgot a 0 at the end

[pliant gull]

2 zeros

[manic grail]

2 zeros is the lower estimates. Average is 3 zeros

[pliant gull]

humming bird vs Shantungosaurus

since we know handrosaurs are fodder from jurassic park (since we know JP is Scientific and up to date) humming bird low dif

[manic grail]

Isnt jurassic park literal footages from the dinosaur period

[pliant gull]

yeah my grandpa used to tell me about recording them

[river plinth]

I swear spinos down B is broken

[river plinth]

Yeah seems real enough

[river plinth]

You know its funny when in there mobile game jurassic world alive the hadrosaurs are nearly UNKILLABLE and with heal stall you out the match💀

[fossil ingot]

Dino's frontal Views are funny

[manic grail]

Trex is pretty wide from the front too

[white matrix]

scotty spotted

[hardy sentinel]

Fell for the rage bait

[fluid inlet]

Looks normal to me

[sand gyro]

this is kinda unrelated but which of these animals would win in a fight a male siberian tiger or a male African lion(i want to start smthing)

[manic grail]

Siberian tiger

[fluid inlet]

Siberian tiger for sure

[sand gyro]

why? @fluid inlet @manic grail

[manic grail]

Because its bigger and more powerful. Much stronger bite force and stronger claws (stronger swipes)

[fluid inlet]

https://youtu.be/MSoImbo8Yr8?si=11k660S-8i1TLqxU they should of paid this guy to make walking with dinosaurs 2

[hardy sentinel]

Siberian tiger

[sand gyro]

I knew you would say that lol well to stop you from having misinformation lingering in your mind the studys saying siberian tigers weight is over 500 pounds are taken by overweight siberian tigers in captivity the average siberian tiger is 200-389 pounds (males) the weight of a African male lion is 400-500 pounds on average

sorry 380-500 for males(lions)

[hardy sentinel]

Even if you don't take size into account, Tigers on average hunt large prey solo that a hunting party of lions need a group for whereas male Lions don't hunt unless they are prideless. A Siberian Tiger has more battle experience than even the most experienced male lions

[sand gyro]

Lions do hunt prey alone that is a VERY VERY common misconception there have been recorded cases of male lions hunting adult cape buffalo(2000 ibs) and adult giraffes (2600 ibs) alone this is rare but so as a tiger hunting a guar

[sand gyro]

Also I must remind you of cylde beatty the trainer who lost 50 tigers to one lion

[hardy sentinel]

Were all 50 tigers siberian tigers? There are more subspecies of tiger that are much smaller than lions

[sand gyro]

Im not saying siberian tigers aren't stronger they just dont weigh more and dont have the capacity for long battles 1 min fights

[fluid inlet]

They don’t need to win a long battle , they need to get the kill.

[hardy sentinel]

With the stats you gave us they are evenly matched size wise. Then apply a ton of swiping muscle and bite force to one of them and see who comes out on top

[sand gyro]

And they cant get that while fighting something 200 ibs there weight that is basically a better version of themselves

[fossil ingot]

Siberian Tigers have gotten smaller over the Years, they are smaller than African Lions overall now.
Bengal Tigers are a better fit

[fossil ingot]

They USED to weight more than Lions BTW.
They just have gotten smaller on the Wild over the Years to the point of now been smaller

[sand gyro]

thats only because people use a study from a obese tiger in captivity and give it the same agility and power it has in the wild African lions have always been bigger

[fluid inlet]

Source for that?

[fossil ingot]

Not really?
They used to get Larger than they do rn, they have just gotten smaller.
Bengal Tigers ARE still Larger than African Lions so not that it matters tbh

[sand gyro]

Recent scientific research

[hardy sentinel]

What is that from? Text on a screen isn't a source without a link to the study

[stiff raven]

This was sad

[fossil ingot]

Wtf lol

@sand gyro btw you do know that said Paper also downsized Lions right??
Cause they Call Bengals the Largest Big Cat(which they are And Paper never mentions Siberian Tiger)

So like, It Contradicts Your Statement as a Whole lol.

Cause said Paper never Mentions Siberian Tigers, and Calls Bengal Tigers the Biggest

[manic grail]

Why did siberians tiger get smaller?

[fluid inlet]

Why else you think

[hardy sentinel]

If you kill a big tiger people see as a threat you get respect. Do that for hundreds of years and suddenly the big tigers are weeded out

[sand gyro]

um how does that downsize lions? Possibly the stupidest take respectfully ive ever seen

[fossil ingot]

Paper Specifically Calls Bengal Tiger the Largest of the Living cats, which you know Includes Lions, they also seem to imply at the end what I said Before.
Of Bengal Tigers been Larger than Siberian and Amur Tigers

[hardy sentinel]

Siberian tigers and Amur tigers are the same thing, just different names for each other

[sand gyro]

that doesnt downsize lions in size AT ALL

[fossil ingot]

You can't say "Lions are Larger"
When the Paper you use to "downsize Tigers"
Specifically Mentions Said Tiger been Larger than Lions lmao

@fluid inlet real

[fluid inlet]

I’m bigger than a lion tbh , their size is not impressive.

[sand gyro]

we are comparing the weight of THE siberian tiger and THE African lions weight actually i think we are confused lol

[tough parcel]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780815515708000025

Paper but it seems to be paid access

[hardy sentinel]

Gotta love it when science can't be accessed because of some greedy b words

[fossil ingot]

You need to Find a good Source for Both, Cause the one that you are using, Directly Calls it the Larger of the Fam.

@sand gyro The Part you shared NEVER mentioned Siberian Tigers Weight exactly.(atleast that I recognize)
The 200-260kgs are from Average Male Bengal Tigers

Tho Siberian Tiger is prob one of those smaller Tiger sizes.
You prob confuse me cause you are using LBS/Pounds lol

[hardy sentinel]

Yall the tiny weight differences might not matter in this situation, the sizes seem to be very close and tigers (especially the big ones) can slap and bite like a mf compared to what a lion can do

[fluid inlet]

Having new information about a species behind a paywall is ridiculous.

[sand gyro]

I sent the wrong thing 💀the tiger names confused me the actual weight is 389-400 tho

And i replied to no one bro @fossil ingot

[hardy sentinel]

Locking scientific information behind a paywall is ridiculous regardless. I don't know how scientific institutions find it ethical to do such (spoiler alert, it ain't)

[sand gyro]

200 ibs isn't a tiny weight difference imo

african lions arent as athletic because they're bigger so anyone who makes that argument has no idea what they are talking about

[fluid inlet]

I know it’s Google but it’s the best I can find

[hardy sentinel]

@sand gyro Where are you getting your info for lion sizes? All I'm seeing in your source is Tiger sizes

[balmy oyster]

Lions are big, especially when compared to a prematurely born human infant

[fossil ingot]

Paper Places Bengals at 440-570lbs
Which is about right tbf.

Afterall THEY ARE the Largest Cat rn.
For Siberian Tiger we need a better ref tho

[sand gyro]

I cant send the links for some reason im being fr but this is lion size 186-200 kg https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-7998.1980.tb01433.x. there we go

siberian tiger cant win agaisnt a lion just accept that fact lions hunt stronger and bigger prey (alone or in prides) lions are bigger and actually have similar or even stronger bite forces they are more durable are more built for mid to long term fights

[fossil ingot]

Can you atleast slide the Proof of the Siberian Tiger Size???

Also I wouldn't necesarrily call the Prey that Solo Lion Hunts more Lethal than a Solo Tiger, both are lethal in their own ways.
Tiger likely beats on pfp.

Then again
Bengal>Lion>Siberian

[sand gyro]

igh hold on

[sand gyro]

https://conservewildcats.org/resources/amur-tiger-facts/

[jagged trellis]

sand cat no diffs both

[sand gyro]

I would argue that a African lion could beat a bengal tiger in a fight how do you feel about this

[hardy sentinel]

So I'm confused here universe. Are you tryna have a gotcha moment where you try to tell us in a belittling way that a subspecies of tiger (that used to be the biggest) which has decreased in size significantly in the past few years enough to where commonly cited sources can't keep up cannot beat a lion or are you tryna say that the biggest current subspecies of tiger cannot beat a male lion?

[sand gyro]

Giraffe kicks decapitate lions btw(just so yk)

[sand gyro]

maybe both

[fossil ingot]

Everyone has their own opinions so.

[hardy sentinel]

Maybe as in maybe both or maybe as in yes I'm trying to do both?

[sand gyro]

True but if we are going off the average individual in which the fights have the average weight,strength,and ovr abilities of their species then i think a lion factually wins but it depends on the specimen eitherway

[fossil ingot]

Mmm seems about right.
This guys have gotten Smaller over the years so makes sense

[sand gyro]

both💔(they need to change the cooldown)

[fluid inlet]

You never put the average vs the average u make the best fight the best

[hardy sentinel]

On average both overlap each other in size, it just depends which random cat you pick off the savannah or forest respectively. But if you're going best of the best it's Tiger all day

[fluid inlet]

It’s like ufc fighters they want the best fighters not average fighters.

[sand gyro]

What's the 2nd largest big cat probably the O delta lions

[hardy sentinel]

Even if we're going average, are we talking about the buffalo hunting lions or the zebra hunting lions, or are we talking about the seal hunting lions? It depends which population you wanna pick from

[fluid inlet]

Give me TikTok lions

[sand gyro]

Tigers are literally fattys in captivity

[hardy sentinel]

So we're using captive animals for this fight? Dude they'll probably not even fight and if they do they'll probably both die

[sand gyro]

maybe the hippo hunting lions(joke only happens with weak individual adult hippos) maybe the giraffe hunting SOLO lions vs the guar hunting tigers

[sand gyro]

they won't fight at all realistically male tigers and male lions aren't competitive unless there is a female(lion or tiger)

[hardy sentinel]

Or over a kill

[sand gyro]

I mean in captivity they feed them both equally pretty sure

[fluid inlet]

Na I’m not talking about captivity the largest tiger ever found in the wild much bigger than the largest lion ever found in the wild

The largest tiger ever recorded in the wild was a Bengal tiger found in Uttar Pradesh, India, in 1967. It measured 10 feet 7 inches long and weighed approximately 857 pounds.

[hardy sentinel]

Wait so in this situation we're using captive animals? That's never good for a 1v1 scenario as most captive animals either

a) are born there
b) got issues

[fluid inlet]

That’s nearly 200 lbs weight advantage for the Tiger

[sand gyro]

animals in captivity usually have a droopy look (they are more relaxed)

[fluid inlet]

Wait I’m tripping lol

[hardy sentinel]

Also even if we are using captive fat tigers here, fat does help when fighting

If we are using wild biggest of the biggest the tigers got the advantage

If we are using the average, tigers swipe harder

[wind prairie]

you all fell for his trick

[sand gyro]

thats a lion?

[hardy sentinel]

When they say tiger they are referring to their message before

[fluid inlet]

I somehow messed up big time , the tiger is bigger but by 25 lbs

[sand gyro]

largest tiger specimen was 840 lbs still bigger than the lion but not 200 lbs bigger lions have manes tigers usually go for the shoulders in fights and not actually the facial regions and lions take down bigger and stronger prey also since this is a captive tiger its odd for you to pit it up agaisnt a adult male lion from the wild thats 820 lbs

[hardy sentinel]

This guy solos both

She weighs 9,000 pounds of pure muscle and eats elephants and whales on the daily

[fluid inlet]

Taking down bigger pray has nothing to do with a 1 on 1 fight against another predator.

[sand gyro]

well funfact if ligers were let out in captivity and given a population we think they could be the first REAL natural predators for elephants

[tough parcel]

Megistotherium 🥀

[hardy sentinel]

They are natural predators for indian elephants, african elephants don't have natural predators when fully grown and healthy (aside from humans)

[manic grail]

So chat who wins kodiak bear or polar bear

[hardy sentinel]

Who wins Spinosaurus or T. Rex

[sand gyro]

it does lions have a stronger skeletal structure and it shows there strength and overall stamina against prey the siberian tiger would be destroyed agaisnt they are built for fast speed and agility not powerful blows and strength like the tiger

[wind prairie]

arctodus simus GRAAHHHHH

[sand gyro]

I dont know how this is a battle but it's obviously t rex and @manic grail to answer your question it's the kodiak bear they are bigger than polar bears by a large margin and since they are related to grizzly bears they have slower twitch muscles which make them built for stamina

[fossil ingot]

Tmk.
When I talked to a Friend and he slidded me skeletals.

Tigers are Proportionally more Robust then Tigers.
I prob have said Skeletals sm
Tho its easier to just ask him tbh lol

[hardy sentinel]

Who wins, the Spinosaurus holotype or a german bombing run

[manic grail]

Wait kodiak bear is bigger? I always thought polar bear is the biggest bear. Because i always hear on the internet that the polar bear is the largest land predator

[fossil ingot]

Largest Polar Bear was over 1 Ton, they are the Largest Carnivourus Bear

[fluid inlet]

Where did you get lions have a stronger skeletal from ?

[manic grail]

We already know

[sand gyro]

Tigers have slender skeletons and bodies(siberian tiger specifically) you can search up the anatomy between the African lion and siberian tiger to

[manic grail]

So if i understand correctly kodiak bears are bigger on average?

[fossil ingot]

I was talking about Bengal Tigers in Specific but I will prob ask my Friend to Slide me the 3D Musculate he has showed me before

[sand gyro]

yes

[fluid inlet]

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Lion_vs_Tiger#:~:text=In terms of bone strength,muscular strength%2C tigers are stronger.

[hardy sentinel]

I reckon the only thing a Lion has going for it is that mane, specifically made for fighting others of it's species (though it would work against a tiger too)

[fluid inlet]

Yeah the mane is definitely a benefit

[manic grail]

Looks great too

[fossil ingot]

I don't see a Lion beating a Tiger Pfp imo.
Atleast a Bengal One

[fluid inlet]

Well the only person that is convinced of the opposite is universe who came in with a motive anyways lol

[sand gyro]

if we are using obese captive tiger weights and acting as if they have the same agility and physical abilities as a wild one I might as well use a barbary lion specimen and just yk both can duke it out

[fluid inlet]

Im doing the biggest tiger specimen compare to biggest lion specimen in the wild that says otherwise

[hardy sentinel]

I don't think agility matters in a close range thrashing honestly, a fat man beats a boxer in a wrestling match 8/10 times

Now give the fat man a meaner left hook than the boxer can give and see who wins

[sand gyro]

that isn't entirley true but yeah a lion would win because it has stronger capabilities i dont know why people use the tigers agility as an advantage

[rich vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-brownbear-catching-fishing-river-gif-7527876

[fluid inlet]

Ok lion fan boy

[sand gyro]

https://youtube.com/shorts/qdG0M7oS_4E?si=VNcNs-DRaacNKGbZ

[white matrix]

@scenic flame is this skeletal valid?

[scenic flame]

afaik it's fine, zhucheng is either like tarbo, rex or something inbetween, iirc Tarbo-like zhuecheng is the most favoured

[fossil ingot]

The Fearsome Zucheng

[hardy sentinel]

Silly goofball question

How does an animal evolve a beak from a fleshy snout?

[scenic flame]

I actually saw something about that recently
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a9YVHrwGQ88?feature=share

[white matrix]

the screenshots i just sent says the femur was 89 cm long
bro please tell me its a young adult
zhuchengtyrannus size nerf would kill me

[tough parcel]

Zhucheng’s been tiny for years wdym

[thorn grove]

iirc there's a 107 cm femur but any post cranial material can't be confidently assigned to Zhuchengtyrannus because there's another cranially diagnosed Tyrannosauridae indet. there (that might just be tarbo afaik)

[white matrix]

I thought it was a couple 500kg smaller than tarbo 💔

[white matrix]

source?

[thorn grove]

idk trust me bro but i can try to find one

not entirely a source but here's stuff

[scenic flame]

personally I wouldn't use the femur for anything serious, an excuse to upsize for PoT? sure.

[thorn grove]

tbf the tibia is more indicative of an upsize anyway

[scenic flame]

I'm more so speaking on the fact it has no overlap with the zhuecheng holotype I assume

[sullen cairn]

additionally idk if there's any reason to believe any respective material at the site belongs to the same individual of the holotype given its a disarticulated bonebed

[thorn grove]

yea ik

[thorn grove]

yea post cranial material can't be assigned to zhucheng because of disarticulation and reasons i said above

[hardy sentinel]

I knew it had something to do with teeth...

[white matrix]

@fossil ingot @sullen cairn sent dms

guys please don't downsize zhuchengtyrannus again, its gonna be dasp 2.0😭

[hardy sentinel]

Gonna get even more confusing considering it's the biggest thing in the ecosystem that coulda hunted Shantungosaurus

[white matrix]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

[hardy sentinel]

💔💔💔💔

[thorn grove]

so real

[white matrix]

thats probably super old, zhuchengtyrannus was a tyrannosaurus species
can they hurry up and publish all the wangshi tyrannosaur stuff

[hardy sentinel]

Tyrannosaurus Rex so terrifying it caused Hadrosaurs more than double it's size a continent over to herd together in fear💔💔💔🥀🥀🥀

@white matrix I know, but Tyrannosaurus Rex? At least call it Tyrannosaurus zhuchengensis

[thorn grove]

tbf if the other thing there really is tarbo there's also that as a potential predator, albeit that's not too much of a size boost

also i forgor that some tyrannosaurid teeth in Zhucheng where assigned to Tyrannosaurus itself, but it still wasn't T. rex

[white matrix]

should I just turn my zhuchengtyrannus into a large tarbo ?
zhuchengtyrannus being 8-10 meters is just sad

[thorn grove]

the holotype material, which is the only definitive material, supports a roughly 10 meter length iirc

[hardy sentinel]

I feel bad for Zhuchengtyrannus, bro is big enough to be a threat but tiny enough to be forgotten

[white matrix]

sent a dm

[white matrix]

bro getting put into the same class as dasp and gorgo😔💔

[thorn grove]

being 3rd biggest ends up that way i feel like, not in the spotlight but not even in the shadow either

[hardy sentinel]

We got the Tyrant lizard king, the alarming lizard hero, and then there's Zhucheng tyrant, Zhucheng isn't a scary thing, just the name of a place.

I guess people gotta pay taxes in Zhucheng so that's scary I guess

[thorn grove]

it's in Shandong which is scary cuz of dong

[hardy sentinel]

I mean if you look deeper into the name Zhucheng it means "to cast in metal". Cast in Metal Tyrant could be pretty.... Metal

[white matrix]

how big is in game dasp?
10 meters?

[hardy sentinel]

I'd have an accurate answer if the mod with the human model worked

[thorn grove]

actually metal cast tyrant is unironically fire

[hardy sentinel]

Well, Zhu Cheng means cast in metal, Zhucheng is just the name of a city

[thorn grove]

oh well we'll assume it's the same thing cuz that would be cool i think

[hardy sentinel]

It should be illegal to give Tyrannosaurs mid names

Like Yutyrannus huali means "beautiful feathered tyrant"

[thorn grove]

super epic awesome dino tyrant

[wind prairie]

guanlong means "crowned dragon"

[hardy sentinel]

"oh boy I can't wait to see how big Embasaurus is!"

The first image on google:

"take a guess" ahhh

[fluid inlet]

Gomez would never be that small not even at birth

[hardy sentinel]

Giganotosaurus ahh (I think Spinosaurus is bigger than it)

[thorn grove]

isn't giga bigger tho

ig spino is at least 1st for length and it looks weird so that gives it more popularity

[fluid inlet]

Meh all 3 have been noted to been the biggest at 1 spot so it’s hard to forget any of them especially with Jurassic park/ world featuring all of them

[thorn grove]

I mean rex is unquestionably the most popular but i take your point yea

[lofty creek]

Zhu Cheng literally just means "many cities" or "the cities"
I dunno how u come up with "to cast in metal"
Zhu means many, a series of something and Cheng is just city or castle

also
Yutyrannus huali
yu - feather
huali - beautiful
Guanlong paradoxus
guan - crown, crested
long - dragon

also for Zhuchengtyrannus
the holotype is without doubt tiny if u compare it with the biggest tarbo
it's just a mid-large tarbo
but theres a slightly larger specimen got its description in 2022, which could reach 10 metres in length or larger

[fluid inlet]

K

[lofty creek]

"Tyrannosaurus zhuchengensis" has been put into Z.magnus in 2022
but there's still 2 local Tyrannosauridae indet, Chinkangkousaurus fragilis and a very slender thing

[lofty creek]

it's 诸城 not 筑城
google messed it up totally

also do u guys need the 2022 paper which described the new specimen of Zhuchengtyrannus?

[hardy sentinel]

I'll take your word for it, the tiny third guy deserves to be left in the boring dust for that mid name

[fluid inlet]

That how I felt after they kept nerfing my poor perucetus

[hardy sentinel]

Tyrant Lizard King and Alarming Hero Lizard are peak names and then there's a tyrant of a city

[lofty creek]

u'll soon get a even more boring fourth one
recently a huge and rather complete tyrannosaur which found in Guifeng biota(the same biota of Qianzhousaurus and Asiatyrannus, previously considered to be Nanshiung Fr. but no longer now) was showed in an exposition in Nanjing.
And it's name(which is informal now)…
was
uh
more boring than your worst imagine

[zealous ravine]

Oh sure yeah! I didn’t know it was described!

[lofty creek]

dm

[white matrix]

please!

[white matrix]

can you send me more information on this?

[lofty creek]

dm
warning: all in Chinese except the abstract and contents

[white matrix]

thats okay

[thorn grove]

give pls

[white matrix]

please no 8-10 meter zhuchengtyrannus, please 😭

[lofty creek]

informal name "Ganzhoutyrannus jiangxiensis"
ganzhou is city and jiangxi is province
sobs

the introduction at the expo mentioned that dorsal vertebrae, pelvic girdle and tail vertebrae were found together, along with some rib and limb
not sure if theres skull material, some guy told me there is
the length was "around 10 metres"
and thats all

and a VERY BAD mount
some part was likely made up

[thorn grove]

Sorry to ask again but could you send me that paper

[lofty creek]

ok wait a minute

[balmy oyster]

Holy moly that big tyrannosaur tooth FINALLY getting some postcrania associated to to

[lofty creek]

dm me plz

[mighty willow]

Agility is one of the most important attributes to consider in a fight between a Tiger and a Lion. A Tiger in the Terai Region of North India and South Nepal averages 518 lbs, i.e 235 Kgs, while a Lion in Kruger National Park averages around 490 lbs, so a Tiger is slightly bigger, Tigers have stronger muscles while Lions have denser bones.

[balmy oyster]

Yes pls

[lofty creek]

dm

[fluid inlet]

Why dm just post it lol

[lofty creek]

many important article are thesis that dont publish and u have to wait for years if not decades to get access to it
such as the further description of Yutyrannus and Sinotytannus
these two paper exists yet never get published, u could only read the abstract

[unborn bane]

Please do not share external links that we can't verify are safe to download. If you wish to share this file you can do so through direct messages.

[lofty creek]

got that
sobs

[white matrix]

how accurate are these

[halcyon cobalt]

awesomesupergorekillerfivenightsatOhiosaurus: 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀

anyways I think that’s a dumb toddler take because I’d rather a name tell me about the animal rather than just being vaguely “cool”

[wind prairie]

nobody is saying it has to be something overly edgy, though edgy names can work (maip)
not necessarily "deadly killer of killers" but like "emperor of the saurian citadel"

[fossil ingot]

Around 9.6m

[lofty creek]

thats very similar with the biggest dasp irl

[lofty creek]

where can I check the actual size of the official creatures in game

[fossil ingot]

Theres no real Size Chart, best we have is Comparing the models with the Unreal Engine Human Model, thats kinda how we know POT Sarco is 12m when the real Animal is 8.9m

[outer tusk]

here

[frigid delta]

excuse me
what is Velafrons most up-to-date length & weight?

[lofty creek]

may I have a look of the results of all the official creatures?

[frigid delta]

i put the new forgis on the jeep

[hardy sentinel]

https://youtube.com/shorts/54bQGij84ig?si=jIMc9Zm0iqMs3Qr6

Peak

[thorn grove]

funny how in game bars has its standard endurance running on 4 legs but its faster dash is on 2 then lol

[hardy sentinel]

I FRIGGIN LOVE YDAW 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥

Do y'all pronounce it Parasaurolophus or Para Sauro Lophus

[thorn grove]

the former

[warm temple]

Parasaur

[patent mist]

the animation doesn't give para full stride length on the top runcycle
the back leg does not go very far back

[thorn grove]

tbf weren't hadrosaur stride lengths restricted because of the muscle arrangements on their hind legs

[patent mist]

maybe?
but would they restrict the leg from going backwards?
also the abstract from the study he was referencing

[thorn grove]

hopping lmao

Also here's what I was thinking of:

The fourth trochanter was much closer to the hip on Tyrannosaurs. This would allow greater leg movement with less muscle movement, thus enabling longer strides and therefore a higher max speed; a hypothesis supported by comparing the trackways of Hadrosaurs and Tyrannosaurs. The Hadrosaur's musculature allows its muscles far more leverage while moving its legs, however; and this allows them to sustain movement for longer without suffering from fatigue https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292885678_Duckbills_on_the_run_The_cursorial_abilities_of_hadrosaurs_and_implications_for_tyrannosaur-avoidance_strategies

[patent mist]

that seems more like it would restrict forward movement rather than backwards
which would be a point against the animation.

[thorn grove]

possibly yea

[tough parcel]

I can only assume it's because the animation is animating the paper's findings so they might've used the range proposed by the paper (But I don't have the paper on-hand so this is a game theory)

Perhaps why they also illustrate the 4+ ton Parasaurolophus with air time in the "galloping" animation

[patent mist]

i really wish there were still gifs of the hopping edmont
it was hillarious
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255643436_Virtual_palaeontology_Gait_reconstruction_of_extinct_vertebrates_using_high_performance_computing

[tough parcel]

I think the Dakota Edmonto documentary might have it

But also ty, it seems like they might have?

[thorn grove]

hmmm
that weight estimate is clearly too high

[manic grail]

@sand gyro you said rex wins. Spino is over 3 times the weight as shown here

[tulip dove]

That's way too small for Spino
As we know it weighed 500 billion tons

[hardy sentinel]

If there is one thing WWD 2025 got right it was the dinosaur noises. They sound plausible

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/antrodemus/status/1929474950114488455?s=46

Luigi (@Antrodemus)

There's lots of theropod taxa that coexisted with large sauropods and *potentially preyed on them, but none of them have the combination of large forelimb and axial muscles of Acrocanthosaurus.
So we lack a confident answer for *why* Acro is built like a brick shithouse.

X · Jun 2, 2025, 9:47 AM

[hardy sentinel]

I hope we can find Spinosaurus's front limbs.

[manic grail]

Spino one shotting carcha and sarco with its claws in that one documentary and we havent even found its front limbs yet

[warm temple]

Can ichthyosaur pupil dilate like gecko does ?

[tulip dove]

https://tenor.com/view/spinosaurus-dinosaur-slap-gif-25074058

[balmy oyster]

None that I’m aware of

[compact leaf]

a lot of them were probably casual pollinators but those are really hard to identify

[manic grail]

As a kid i believed all of this lol. I thought it was a scientific documentary

[snow python]

Was acro upsized to 12m or is still 11,5-11,7m?

[frosty cedar]

This is peak cinema.

Also, new render for Rebirth spinosaurus, and surprisingly it looks better here and not ultra fugly.

[winter marsh]

we did have a prehistoric bird that ended up being a weird lizrd that could be a pollinator but yeah not really

[plucky basin]

i feel like tiny marginocephalians would do that as like a self-earned treat

[wind prairie]

keep in mind hummingbirds are very very specialized for what they do, I don't think we see evidence for that kind of stuff in non avian dinosaurs

[lavish frigate]

Look, I don’t wanna make judgments before the movie, but it just looks peak

[balmy oyster]

It’s not too hard to become a pollinator tbf, we even got wolves of all things managing to be pollinators

[hardy sentinel]

||me when WWD 2025 tells me about the circumference of a Tyrannosaurus's bum hole instead of actually interesting information that also relates to the episode||

[compact leaf]

casual pollination is very easy it'd be shocking if there weren't dinosaurs that did it

[cloud breach]

Shuvuuia has a preserved hyoid showing pretty developed tongues for insectivory, I dont see why not non avian dinos could reach that level of specialization even if its not fossilized

[cloud breach]

Yea the least you would have to do is eat fruits

[balmy oyster]

This show really is a big letdown huh

[hardy sentinel]

Fr, I bet if I cut out all the parts where people are digging, the episode would be at most 10 minutes long

[winter marsh]

flowers only really appeared in the cretaceous I believe so anything before that is out of question

[compact leaf]

part of what I was disappointed by was the lack of variety in animals, we see at most like 4 per episode and edmontosaurus shows up in 3 of them

[fluid inlet]

I legit didn’t finished stop watching after 3 episodes and cancelled my vpn lol

[hardy sentinel]

At least the Spinosaurus episode was good. I skipped all the parts with the Paleontologists in it though

[light osprey]

Gnetophytes and Cycads aren’t wind pollinated

[scenic flame]

ngl yeah, it would've been better recieved had they not called it WWD

[winter marsh]

[light osprey]

They need other animals to spread their pollen, like most angiosperms

[hardy sentinel]

Does anyone else just keep beautiful paleoart in their phones

[rich vessel]

Mostly memes I think that have paleoart

[hardy sentinel]

I'm separated from my computer and I wanna watch Prehistoric Planet (totally not pirated). The Rex is so visually appealing

Like I came across an edit and now I miss it

[wind prairie]

shuvuuia also lived in an arid desert. I'm not saying non avian dinosaurs couldn't pollinate, they definitely did, just not to the specialized extent of hummingbirds

[inner thunder]

Which is biggger cerato or dilo?
Dilo had been buffed for weight.

[cloud breach]

Cera

[warm temple]

Jwfk baryonyx with sail

[manic grail]

Gigachad jawline

[stark roost]

Isn’t zhucheng heavier then tarbo?

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/sxur17/status/1929524481891963206?s=46

DMJ小芸 (@sxur17)

“Brasil Monster”
URC R-44
Abelisauridae maxillary material from the Adamantina Formation (87.8–68 Ma) in Brazil. It may be related to the local Pycnonemosaurus nevesi. But it must be said that although the maxillary is very fragmented, it is of very large size.

X · Jun 2, 2025, 1:04 PM

[stark roost]

What 😭

[stark roost]

Kenyan Giants Twin Bro

[balmy oyster]

Kenyan giant smaller

[fossil ingot]

No, not with the Holotype atleast

[thorn grove]

only one isolated vertebra scales to be larger and it can't confidently be assigned to zhucheng cuz it comes from a disarticulated bonebed in which one other tyrannosaurid taxon (which may be tarbo) is present and so could also be the owner of the vert

[hardy sentinel]

An accurate Mosasaurus would have been so much scarier in Rebirth

Bigger things take longer to turn, so now downsize it to its normal size and then you get an Orca sized animal that can still do tons of damage to a boat that can propel itself high out of the water like a shark, but it's smarter and can aim itself better

Regardless I am still hyped for the film because a predatory blue whale sized Mosasaur and 3 Spinosaurus vs a boat of people is gonna be epic to watch for the first time. I hope a main character dies and plot armor exists very little in this film

[wary heath]

Does the prehistoric planet Rex still hold up in terms of accuracy?

[balmy oyster]

Kinda? Other than having a rather bit much soft tissue, the overall anatomy & movement should be accurate

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/dinoh555/status/1929676787258478992?s=46

Dactylioceras🇵🇸 (@Dinoh555)

A new specimen of the early branching crocodyliform Platyognathus hsui from the Early Jurassic extends the record of gobiosuchids back 67 million years

Yes, a GHOST LINEAGE BIGGER THAN THE CENOZOIC
https://t.co/t9v5rdPkIo

X · Jun 2, 2025, 11:09 PM

[bitter quest]

If it turns out to be a pycnonemosaurus that's a w

[balmy oyster]

It’s plausible but we first need good skull material of pycno in order to make that comparison

[bitter quest]

True, not wrong there, but if it turns out if it is a pycnonemosaurus when we find more material it'll probably stay on top or second place as the largest abelisaurid found

[frigid delta]

better Mosa pic by Fabio but ur points still stand

100 tons Mosa

[warm saddle]

Yes, well aside from teh i think legs which are too short

[bitter quest]

Well at least rebirth mosa still smaller than fallen kingdom/dominons

[warm saddle]

Rhamp?

[balmy oyster]

Harpactognathus

[warm saddle]

Ohhhhh i don't knoa what that is

[balmy oyster]

Don’t blame you, it’s not the most well known & I think pretty fragmentary

[fossil ingot]

I would use Tosha's Updated Mosa

He Cool

[sharp dragon]

That is the most devious mosasaurid i've ever laid eyes upon.

What is he plotting?

[fossil ingot]

Just Mosa been Mosa.
They Built weird

Tylo and Prog are cool too

[topaz shell]

Mosasaurs have changed quite a bit I see

[opaque kayak]

NGL I still can't get over this aesthetic, not that it's not accurate

[frigid delta]

is this on their twitter?
can i have their links?

[stark roost]

Oh god really? Thats a massive Abelisaurid

[fossil ingot]

They lool funny for me
Torpedo

[stark roost]

Alright

[fossil ingot]

This is on Diocles Twitter.
Art is based on Tosha's Mosa recon that I shared above

[frosty cedar]

Yeah, it's waaaay better than earlier concept art and promotional imagery.

These 2 just look so uninspired compared to the final one.

[hardy sentinel]

I kinda like the new Spinosaurus, I do hope the ones we don't fully see have unique designs

The other 2 Spinosaurus are hidden and definitely have different sails and features we just see one yellow one more often

[frosty cedar]

Idk, but I think they all look like this, just with slightly different patterns.

[hardy sentinel]

It looks like this one has a more M shaped sail and what looks like a tiny crest

Probably just some perspective thing but I hope JW goes the route of 3 different Spino designs

[frosty cedar]

I think this is the exact same one I just posted above. And it does have this little crest, as you see.

The sail pattern is identical.

[hardy sentinel]

Ah, didn't see the crest. It's tiny af, the one in the picture I sent looks like it has more of a crest

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah I'm prolly tweaking, I'm just setting out hope that JW rebirth is gonna have 3 different designs and not some copy/paste

[frosty cedar]

Very unlikely tho, so far in the entire franchise all dinosaurs of the same species have the same proportions and look alike, except the patterns.
Raptor squad or baryonyx squad from Camp Cretaceous, for example.

[hardy sentinel]

The Rexes did seem to change a bit throughout their appearances, just slight differences like bulk and size though, wish all the Spinosaurus were unique at least color wise

Not saying the Spino hasn't changed ofc, just saying I wish they didn't make one model and call it good

[frosty cedar]

My only complaint about this Rebirth spino design is that crest is soooooooo tiny. Even the spino from JP3 and Camp Cretaceous has those very prominent 2 horns on it's snout.

[placid stump]

I thought rebirth was coming out on the 2 of june

[hardy sentinel]

July 2nd

[frosty cedar]

Man, time does fly. I remember when we didn't know how the movie is going to be called, and very popular theory was that it's going to be about an expedition to South American jungle to find out why dinosaur populations are decreasing.

[hardy sentinel]

Oh boy I sure do wonder why animals who need a lot of food are starving and by proxy the animals who eat those animals are starving too

[placid stump]

Yuh

[frosty cedar]

Me when Dominion of dinosaurs around the world didn't last (never saw it coming):

[hardy sentinel]

Dinosaurs wouldn't last a day here, poachers would kill em quicker than the meteor

[tough parcel]

We need to be careful in this Jurassic World...they might have a Fallen Kingdom but it's still their Dominion...

[frosty cedar]

We just have to make sure our world doesn't become lost. This is surely not going to be a walk in a park, but we'll try.

[hardy sentinel]

This park is very Jurassic..... 3

[jagged trellis]

its surely like a camp, gotta be old, almost cretaceous old

[frosty cedar]

Makes you wonder if there is some sort of chaos theory at play here.

[placid oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/gunna-fire-writing-heat-gif-25524005

[balmy oyster]

It’s more so Kenyan giant isn’t as large as people think it is

[brave stump]

What’s the size difference between pycno and carno ?

[hallow spear]

I mean it’s very large, it’s around like 4.5t and 10-11m

[stark roost]

Oh ok

[bitter quest]

Now show off the supposed adult pycno size estimate

[brave stump]

So he’s a bigger abelisauridae

[faint dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/stupid-cat-cat-stare-cat-zoom-cat-tongue-cat-dumb-gif-12034315536794818038

[brave nova]

Pycno is yes. But the one I sent there is hypothetical adult. Use the one I sent above it for the current Pycno size which is still bigger than carno

[brave stump]

Okay ,thanks thragg ^^

[tough parcel]

I love the hypothetical adult size of an animal that belongs to a clade where we have 0 information on how they would grow!

[brave nova]

It’s very reliable

[warm temple]

I. galvensis is real?

And I. anglicus was supposed to be its type species instead of I. bernissartensis

[balmy oyster]

Definitely, but it’s not the 8t+ majunga relative people used to make it out to be lol

Whoops wrong reply, meant to respond to @hallow spear

[hardy sentinel]

This world in the jurassic, it seems to be changing via evolution

[fluid inlet]

Well considering this is thought to be related to pycno https://x.com/sxur17/status/1929524481891963206?s=46

DMJ小芸 (@sxur17)

“Brasil Monster”
URC R-44
Abelisauridae maxillary material from the Adamantina Formation (87.8–68 Ma) in Brazil. It may be related to the local Pycnonemosaurus nevesi. But it must be said that although the maxillary is very fragmented, it is of very large size.

X · Jun 2, 2025, 1:04 PM

Try not to find very fragmentary large abelisaurids mission impossible, considering the pycno has solid material

[undone rapids]

smh my head , have you forgotten Ceratosaurus grows to adult in 2 years. That means the pycno we have was only 1 year old!!!

[hardy sentinel]

Top 5 formations

1. Morrison (Allo, Steg, Apato)
2. Nemegt (Theri, Tarbo, Duck)
3. Hell Creek (Rex, Trike, Pachy)
4. Prince Creek (Pachyrhino, Nanuq, "Laten")
5. Horseshoe Canyon (Eo, Albertasaurus, Ano)

Fight me on it

[velvet burrow]

Bajo de la Carpa, Huincul, Allen

[hardy sentinel]

What are from those formations?

[velvet burrow]

Want to say Anacleto but no one knows what age is it

[hardy sentinel]

Notosuchus is the only one I recognized from the first photo

[thick oar]

there's been new renders shown with a crest

[plucky basin]

you dont know alvarezsaurus?

its literally the namesake of an entire family and you DARE NOT KNOW ABOUT IT??

[hardy sentinel]

I know like two Alvarezsaurids, literally just learned their name

[fossil ingot]

That Pycno is to Big and atm just the other Pycno

And when I mean that Pycno is to Big, is cause Iirc Random said his Pycno was 2.7t scaled off Carno

[opaque kayak]

Ngl these muscle diagrams are so lovely

[brave nova]

The pycno I sent is randoms pycno so idk tbh

[fossil ingot]

Yeah, iirc Random mentioned his Pycno was 2.7t scaling off Carno, and he wondered how they got 3.2t.
Which idk if it ever Got Answered LOL.
Idk how Heavy is the Pycno I sended above tho

The 2 Funny Friends

[stark roost]

I thought pycno was like 2-2.2 tons?

[fossil ingot]

No.
Thats almost Carno's Weight(1.8-2t)

[stark roost]

Oh really?

[fluid inlet]

Ya really

[atomic cave]

They’re correct. Pycno is estimated to be much heavier than Carno. Around 3-3.6t. It’s the largest known Abelisaurid. No horns like Carno either

[white matrix]

3.6 tons is way wrong...

[atomic cave]

“At first, it was thought to be a medium-sized abelisaurus with a body length of about 6 to 7 meters and a weight of about 1.2 tons, but after re-estimation, it was estimated to be about 9 meters in length and a weight of 3.6 tons.”

This is still debated in the community. They’ve only discovered the tailbone and part of a leg bone, so no estimate that is given is going to be 100% correct. And the specimen they found seems to be sub-adult.

[stark roost]

That’s surprising. Are there any Abelisaurs in between them since a 1 ton difference is insane

[fossil ingot]

3-3.6t seems to much given the Material we have.

Also been a Sub Adult doesn't mean it was gonna grown much more and depends what you wanna consider Sub Adult

[fluid inlet]

3tons doesn’t sound unrealistic at all to me

[atomic cave]

Most were between 5-9m and between 1-2 tons. For example Rajasaurus and Majungasaurus

[atomic cave]

Like I said, it’s still up for debate. But the largest Pycno’s were almost certainly larger than Carnotaurus

[fossil ingot]

3.6t sure does.
2.7t Sounds Pretty Tame for its Size rn.

@atomic cave Pycno's Holotype is already Larger than Carno's Holotype by like 900-700kgs
Never said it wasn't tbf

[stark roost]

Ik that

[fluid inlet]

By tupandaclyus on Instagram

[sharp dragon]

I can't believe a pterosaur drew that.

[stark roost]

Actually crazy how smart reptiles were back then

[fluid inlet]

Not a surprise to me

[thorn grove]

wait so why isn't anky over 8 meters again

[outer tusk]

because there's no ankylosaurus over 8 meters

[thorn grove]

yea i know but did something change with the scaling or what happened

I was looking at Lancian's reconstruction and scaling it up to match CMN 8880 seems to put it over 8 meters unless the scaling factor got updated

I am not a thyrephoran expert at all so idrk anything

[tough parcel]

It got better

[outer tusk]

also we have like 2 decent ankylosaurus speicmen

[opaque kayak]

Huh, let me see, hol up

[thorn grove]

I was using 26% increase but that might be outdated

[outer tusk]

the larger 2 speicmen shouldn't be over 7 meters

[sullen cairn]

26% increase is via skull width
the difference in skull length is smaller

[thorn grove]

which is more reliable, and could i have a reference for that if possible

[thorn grove]

thank you all

but now I'm just curious if a study or something came out suggesting skull length was the more reliable scale factor

[sullen cairn]

iirc arbour and mallon 2018 use a something like ~15% estimated discrepancy in body length between 5895 and 8880 which if i'm remembering right corresponds fairly well to some average between skull width and length

but i dont think that was ever explicitly stated as the methodology used

[thorn grove]

no i've been reading that study and it's pretty vague about a lot of stuff

[sullen cairn]

side note but said paper also intriguingly describes zuul's skull as being 4m wide

[tough parcel]

This is because Zuul is the wide

[thorn grove]

there's multiple errors since its length range estimate is seemingly based on CMN 8880 having a 26% wider skull than AMNH 5214 even though that's the scale factor compared to AMNH 5895's skull

[sullen cairn]

this reminds of how like a year ago this guy in the pk server entirely unprompted started crashing out over someone saying that CMN 8880 could be below 8t and subsequently had no idea how arbour and mallon even achieved their estimates

which led to a remarkably engaging conversation that never really expanded beyond "The 8 metre 8 tonne for CMN 8880 estimate was made by the worlds leading ankylosaurus experts"

[opaque kayak]

The based 12 ton Ibrahim Spino:

[opaque kayak]

Also wow this server died

[thorn grove]

🙁

[sullen cairn]

afaik there isnt really any literature looking at allometry in ankylosaur skulls (or ankylosaur elements in general)

[thorn grove]

ok thanks anyway

[frigid delta]

any rendered version of that Anky like this for example?

[sullen cairn]

i also wish arbour and mallon stated how they're defining basal skull length because they seem to treat it differently from premax-occipital condoyle length (which is bizzare because their amnh 5214 basal skull is identical to carpenter 2004's premax-occipital length for the same specimen, but the 5214 premax-occipital skull length from arbour and mallon is shorter than either)

and they actually cite carpenter for the 55.5cm basal skull length which would really seem to imply their basal skull length is premax-occipital (despite the premax-occipital length being later stated as 54.2cm)

[thorn grove]

idk that study kind of seems like a mess

[wooden wadi]

Do we know in which position dinosaurs slept? My personal theory is they kinda slept like birds do. Do we have an actual fossil record of this tho?

[frigid delta]

what makes Attenborosaurus a pliosaur despite having them long necks like plesiosaur do???
these type of classification sometimes confuses me

[balmy oyster]

wait…

Apparently basal pliosaurs had longer necks and were a lot similar to what people consider plesiosaurs

Here’s two other close relatives also pretty basal to pliosauridae

[hardy sentinel]

Pliosaurs are a type of Plesiosaur, and Attenborosaurus is more basal compared to their more stumpy necked cousins. The long neck and proportionally large head point it out as being a basal Pliosauroid

[fleet creek]

paleo, do we have any idea what allosaurus looked like as babies? i know we have otogeny from rex and triceratops but what about allo?

[placid stump]

And Cera torvo yang sauro

[tough parcel]

@fleet creek We have a juvenile Allosaurus that if you give me a bit, I can find a few skeletals for it. From what I remember, it’s a lanky baby. Not to the degree of tyrannosaurs, but it’s not a shrunken adult

@placid stump The only possible ontogenetic series is from Cerato and I don’t think the juveniles are described

[hardy sentinel]

Facebook scares me, I wanna engage and call their misinformation but I'm afraid of being ganged up on and having my brain exploded

[sharp dragon]

The real question is why are you there?

[balmy oyster]

we have a good amount of young allo specimens, though this is the only I can find that has been skeletized

[fleet creek]

[tough parcel]

@placid stump @fleet creek https://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/interview-with-scott-hartman/ (Source for the Scott Hartman one)

[hardy sentinel]

Was changing my pfp cuz I just got glasses (my mother suggested it) and apparently my dino tism feed from Instagram translates to my Facebook

[frigid delta]

dinotism real

[opaque kayak]

Still somehow better then twitter

[frigid delta]

y'all haven't seen tiktok

[wispy obsidian]

yall think some dinos were gay

[bitter quest]

Not gonna question that but any new stuff I miss, new discoveries for example

[thorn grove]

I’ve heard crocodiles can be so probably

[hardy sentinel]

Wait until you see birds

[wispy obsidian]

😭

[twilit fox]

who was going to tell me spino was sooo small compared to sucho. for clarity im using the estimate from the morocco holotype of spinosaurus and the current size estimates for suchomimus

[exotic quest]

that must be wrong

[brave nova]

This doesn’t look to be allat right. This is with liams holotype spino and dans Sucho

[twilit fox]

you just proven my point

[verbal wave]

yeahhh sucho's like 5.3 tons lmao

[white matrix]

Isn’t the spino holotype a young individual? If I remember correctly the adult size is really debated at this point

[brave nova]

I’m not saying Sucho isn’t bigger but it’s not that big. Sucho is made out to be a lot bigger

[twilit fox]

sucho stands at 3.6 meters and spino stand at 2.6 meters

[brave nova]

Are u talking about the big spino there. Cause its hip height is 2.5m and then ~5m with sail

[twilit fox]

i go based on the hip height since thats a constant

[sudden wind]

Spino holotype and neotype aren't big next to sucho.

[sudden wind]

That isn't the holotype nor neotype. This is based on a referred specimen.

[brave nova]

Ik. I’ve already sent the pics of it compared to holo. I’m now sending it compared to the big one

[faint dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/rayleigh-one-piece-freaky-cry-gif-2673645830423664815

[balmy oyster]

This is NOT the version I have seen

[balmy oyster]

Holotype & “neotype” specimens are considerably smaller than sucho, it’s interesting

[twilit fox]

yeah i noticed that but based on who does the skeletal it changes considerable

[balmy oyster]

The only true “spinosaurus aegyptiacus” is the holotype that got bombed, all the others we’ve found in the Kem Kem group are different

[twilit fox]

yup those are spinosaurus moroccous if im not mistaken

[opaque kayak]

spinosaurus marocannus is sigilmassasaurus + also invalid, so if neotype is a new species it’s sm else

[twilit fox]

then the spinosaurus we know today isnt spinosaurus either since we havent found another example of the holotype

[white matrix]

someone should make an updated zhuchengtyrannus skeletal on these

[severe yew]

https://tenor.com/view/black-what-what-are-you-talking-about-wtf-gif-19173257

[fossil ingot]

Tbf Dan's Sucho is not as tall as the Edit Random's made of Sereno's

[fossil ingot]

Tbf for the Holo just
Downsize Random's to the Holotype Size lol

[fossil ingot]

Spino's Holotype is basically the size that Oxalaia is here, maybe even a bit shorter

[hardy sentinel]

Someone give me the paper on Deinosuchus that says it ain't a true Crocodillian anymore

[brave nova]

Seeing Sigil reconstructed without a sail is weird

[balmy oyster]

Second species of spinosaurus

[balmy oyster]

It’s because of “spinosaurus b” but that’s most likely its own entirely different thing as well. Sigil most likely had a sail.

[iron halo]

wha

[fossil ingot]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-025-07653-4

Is this one iirc

[fossil ingot]

Yeah its not anymore

[opaque kayak]

Sigil without robust morph sails hurt me

[balmy oyster]

Random did also say there is a correlation between sigil & robust morph verts so it’s still on the menu

[opaque kayak]

I'm going to copy paste the olof quote since my peanut brain cannot comprehend for the robust morph spines "I know for a fact that there are anterior and posterior dorsal centra in Kem Kem that do not fit the holotype. These centra have a ventral keel as well as a triangular rugose plateau. The feature that was described as something that Sigilmassasaurus possesses in it's cervicals."

Apparently, the slender morph spines do not have that "keel" (I have no idea what that means or a triangular rugose plateau), so they are less likely to be sigil

[sharp dragon]

You're telling me that the spinosaurus is a spy?!

[opaque kayak]

People theorize this a lot that the "neotype" isn't spinosaurus aegyptiacus, but some other species, since it was found across a sea.

[twilit fox]

from my understanding its what we been using for the current look for spino

[opaque kayak]

TBH even if the neotype isn't spinosaurus aegyptiacus proper, it's the closest related to the holotype, so even if it is a seperate species it would be the thing we are using to fill in the missing gaps of the holotype, and spino itself's recon wouldn't change either

[tough parcel]

Yes because even if we assume the neotype isn't Spinosaurus proper, it's still the closest relative we would use to reconstruct the holotype

So purist Spinosaurus people are merely annoying

[wary fable]

Who would win megalania or titanoboa I was wondering because at first glance it seems easy for titanoboa but then there’s the fact megalania might have venom if it’s not already confirmed he did

[outer tusk]

megalania/slatemate

[cloud badger]

Guys I was thinking of therizinosaurus and it's claws and remembered that they were Fragile and not meant for slashing and stuff and I remember that brown bears also had long claws

And that those long claws are fragile too but serve as grappling tools not only to fish but also grapple so I thought that maybe theri was a grappler and that they would most likely make the aggressor fall then stomp it or claw at it or even peck it
So I was wondering if that could be true

[manic grail]

I didnt know brown bears had fragile claws

[tough parcel]

They don't

They're also nowhere near the length of Therizinosaurus claws so the comparison dies as fast as it was born 💔

[fluid inlet]

Look up brown bear claw attacks and you’ll see how fragile they are

[balmy oyster]

If brown bear claws are “fragile” then theri can still make tarbo shishkebabs

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I find it hard to believe Therizinosaurus claws wouldn’t demand some type of respect

[manic grail]

Arent elephant tusks considered fragile too?

[wary fable]

Yeah I was thinking Meg because the venom seems to be a big help on its part

[outer tusk]

Well main issue for titanoboa it's predominantly a fish eater incapable of constriction

[hallow spear]

No they handle stress very well, theriz claws on the other hand seem to not

[warm saddle]

Huh wdym? Titanoboa didn't constrict things?

[balmy oyster]

Way too big for it

[warm saddle]

Ok

[tough parcel]

It seems Titanoboa’s skull was not properly built to swallow large things as well as the dentition indicating it was more of a fish eater than a large prey eater

Last part might’ve been created from the anthers of my mind but it sounds right so

[stark roost]

Is there any actual dinosaurs we know have neck flaps ( not like jw dilo )

[tough parcel]

Like iguana neck flaps?

[stark roost]

Yea

[stiff osprey]

Luckily Titanoboa's skull being like half a meter long means it is easily able to eat people anyway

[warm saddle]

Is the dewlap tarbo thing just pure speculation or actually have soem evidence/merit curious

[stark roost]

Like from prehistoric kingdom

[warm saddle]

Ye n some paleoart i sometime see tarbo n rex with big dewlaps

[stark roost]

I think that’s speculative but I love that prehistoric kingdom design lol

[tough parcel]

https://incertaesedisblog.wordpress.com/2019/10/06/the-anecdotal-tarbosaurus-throat-skin/

[warm saddle]

Thanks, i'l read it later when i have time

[stark roost]

Wait your serious that’s actually so cool lol. I literally was looking up dinosaur dewlaps and I think I found the same thing lol

[tough parcel]

No it doesn’t exist, that’s the point of the blog haha

It’s breaking down the possible origins but it’s otherwise here-say afaik

[balmy oyster]

I thought it was real but lost

[stark roost]

There’s still a really small chance he wasn’t lying. And I’m taking that chance since it’s cool in my opinion

[severe imp]

I have a question that I need answers for...

I want to make a shelter 2 inspired Blender animation of a pterosaur species. Im not well versed enough to find what species I may want to use so, my questions;
What small pterosaur species fits an arboreal hunter akin to like a goshawk ?

Id dig but I was drained from how would I draw Tropeognathus hands yesterday lol

[pallid compass]

https://www.sci.news/paleontology/taleta-taleta-13954.html

[thorn grove]

Hadrosaur supremacy

[stark roost]

New hadrosaur. Betttt

Also where do you guys get these articles fun?

[pallid compass]

I usually scroll in science daily, research gate, and google news(it gives you articles based on your interests)

[pallid compass]

Taleta Taleta? ❌
Tralalelo Tralala ✅

[bitter quest]

Ajnabia has a friend now

[zealous ravine]

Scaled this guy and he rlly is tiny

[sly viper]

Lil critter

[halcyon cobalt]

Those who know 💀💀💀💀

[severe yew]

no, that assumption is wrong

any bear claws are not just for decoration, they are actually very strong (not fragile at all), and are very lethal

a single swipe has been known to slash animals (including humans) to death due to hemorrhage

i know this, trust me

likewise, i can bet that, regardless of what any random person might say about Therizinosaur supposedly "fragile" claws, they were sure to also be used and lethal in combat

[severe yew]

lol

elephant tusks are able to deeply penetrate and kill full grown male rhinoceros (the sound is horrible)

so not fragile at all

[zenith rose]

How likely would it be for spinosaurids to have throat pouches? I always depict mine with some sort of large throat pouch under the jaw.

This is the PoT spino I’ve drawn here but I added on the pouch I always do. Just pretend it’s an accurate spino with a pouch

[tough parcel]

There's no evidence for or against such a thing, but 99.9% of people give dinosaurs some degree of pouch because it looks so aesthetic 💅

[zenith rose]

I pretty much add it on all my Dino’s to some extent, but the spinosaurids get a fairly large one.

[worldly thistle]

What is the most scientifically accurate picture of spino that we can imagine?

?

[ionic crescent]

Considering irri jaw stuff, I don't see farfetched seeing spinosaurines having duck/goose or pelican like-pouches

[tough parcel]

(The Irritator expanding jaw stuff might be questionable)

Also @worldly thistle do you mean a skeletal?

[cloud badger]

By fragile I meant that they are more likely to break off than a other bear claws due to their shape same applies for theri
I'd also like to point out that while yes if you get or anyone gets swiped by a bear claw it's probably gonna tear through you but these class are not really meant for bears generally don't use them that way when they fight it other bears or large animal they usually grapple them and put them in submission then look for a way to bite without getting hit they might through a swipe here and there but it's more for the blunt force than actual slashing it's claws are just bad at it especially when against another bears thick skin fat and fur layers unlike polar bears who have much shorter class which are actually made to tear flesh easily
They are more of a tool to brown bears to help with their foraging as well as their grappling

[ionic crescent]

We should also not compare mammals' with other animals

Also in general, popular belief says smilodon canines were powerful weapons, yet they were extremely fragile and were only used for the fatal blow

Just cause other animal has X strong part doesn't mean Y animal can

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/literallymiguel/status/1930434049509576727?s=46

Literally Miguel 🇻🇪💥🔫 (@LiterallyMiguel)

NOBODY TOLD ME WE HAD AN EDMONTOSAURUS THAT GOT A PIECE OF ITS HEAD BITTEN OFF AND LIVED TO HEAL IT OFF

and also shows a preserved skin patch showing a healed scar on it!!

https://t.co/2V2CJLUxA1

X · Jun 5, 2025, 1:18 AM

[zenith rose]

Awesome, pretty much what I thought, thank you!

[ionic crescent]

I mean, we have a Pachyrhinosaurus with half its face off and still lived

[fluid inlet]

Really? Can you send me to the paper to that.

[ionic crescent]

Unsure if it has official paper, but here it is

[fluid inlet]

Not as bad as I thought but still based

[cloud badger]

I was just wondering since theri claws are slightly similar to brown bear claws that maybe they also grappled a lot too
@fluid inlet where did he get that ibuprofen from?

[ionic crescent]

Being similar doesn't make em in any way as tough as the others

Once again, smilodon canines are in no way similar to other "sabertoothed" animals

Studies recently stated theri claws being fragile, if anything theri could've used em as some elaborated display to threaten and intimidate predators, but considering it's animal size, that would've been enough to scare off most predators

[cloud badger]

From what I saw the study is more comparing it to other closely related species it was not actually fragile just not as sturdy as others theyre quite sturdy actually especially when thrusting

[fluid inlet]

https://preview.redd.it/made-art-of-the-pachyrhinosaurus-who-got-half-its-face-torn-v0-3xi2hf9eihuc1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=73b3a3e33ad54b7202c53bcdc20388b90a54601f

I see why styra got that huge horn by its mouth now , jeez.

[ionic crescent]

Aka not usable for combat

Claws are not nails, once broken they don't regenerate. And if those animals used those scythe for eating and/or displays (either mating or intimidating displays) losing em could make difference between live and pass your genes or just die

[cloud badger]

How come that's the conclusion you thought of it's just slightly less sturdy not paper fragile they can also regenerate as they are mostly likely covered in keratin the study debunked that their was a digger like ground sloths and showed that their claws were made for hooking and pulling things (presumably food which I find hard to believe do to their necks size maybe they were talking about food on the ground )so that why I made the comparaison with brown bears which they too have slightly less sturdy claws than other bears who also have pulling and hooking claws for fishing and grappling

[ionic crescent]

You regenerate the keratin shed, not the bone

[cloud badger]

Well yeah if the bone gets removed your nail is done for

[sharp dragon]

My condundrum with this is.. why would this animal evolve a part of its body to be nigh useless for anything that requires some elbow grease? Therizinosaurids whole thing was big arms and sharp claws, why would it relegate such a valuable tool to something it can flap around to look scary or attractive?
And the whole "Pulling down branches" thing never made sense to me considering that, if it did have a similar build to other known therizinosaurids, it would've had a long neck that extended far past it's claw range.

I just find it hard to believe that a therizinosaurus couldn't slap something, or use its claws for digging into bark, soil and such. I share this sentiment with the Skeleton Crew, (Go watch them if you don't already, hearing actual paleontologists talk about things is quiote refreshing) in that i strongly believe that therizinosaurus' claws were not as practically useless as some believe.

I'm not a paleontologist though, and my thoughts mean nothing to cold hard research done by the wonderful workers.

[severe yew]

that was not "half its face off", lol, that was more like, maybe, 4% of its face off

sometimes exaggerating can lead other people to think wrong theories

but cool to show it, bro

[ionic crescent]

Considering that the affected place is one vital zone (is not like losing a bite of frill), is kinda respectable to have lived such wound/infection

[tough parcel]

Considering it's like this big, I'd say it's approximately half its face

[severe yew]

again, that certainly does not look like "half its face"

lets not sugar coat it when its not needed

don't forget the other side of the face is not even showing

[tough parcel]

Perhaps you also count the hair on your head as part of your face...

[drifting arch]

Love this art and definitely feel like sauropods rightfully bullied nearby azhdarchids.

[outer tusk]

why is the frill counted as the face 😭

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/dK6_5nr4rsQ?si=1MLx5oaGHXRe-0d9

[white matrix]

oml
next theyre gonna give rex eyelashes and plump lips

[umbral kite]

guys has there been any news about my glorious king the amazing goat tarbosaur

[stark roost]

Wat

[umbral kite]

has there been any news about my glorious king tarbosaurus

[stark roost]

Oh idk. Idk if it’s common knowledge by now but there is a super duper small chance they had a neck flap

[umbral kite]

Wattle

[stark roost]

Bumping this since I never got a clear answer

[vivid mantle]

I tried to look up a bit for ya, no dino has been found to have them how they are shown in game and movie culture, some do have frills but they are bony not fleshy

[stark roost]

I mean like iguana flaps

[vivid mantle]

Ohhhhh my bad lol

[hardy sentinel]

Little fun game for people who like phylogenetic trees

Find a random tree in person that branches out, draw it, and then try to replicate a phylogenetic tree you know. I did non human great apes

Draw the tree before you get an idea of what family to make from it, it's a fun game I play on bus rides

Ignore me originally misspelling Orangutan

[manic grail]

Was spinos sail a weakpoint?

[hardy sentinel]

Against a foe of similar size, absolutely, vertebrae are pretty fragile and filled with nessecary stuff to make sure you can actually move

[manic grail]

I see. If it broke would it immobilize the animal?

[hardy sentinel]

Depending on which one, it would immobilize it or make movement difficult and painful

[manic grail]

I see

Do you think spino could walk if it lost its entire tail or most of it?

[drifting arch]

I feel like with this information, sauropods should have a body slam move or have trample back because even if its a small Petrustitan, that is still a lot of weight to throw around. At least 10 tons right?

[stable stream]

Makes sense they would have cheeks. Many of them would’ve had to have chewed their food, even if they had mixed diets. It’s like when feathers were introduced and people thought it was ridiculous until the fossils made it undeniable. Herbivores especially would need a from soft tissue “cheeks” to keep plant matter from falling out while chewing. Animals with complex chewing motions (like ornithopods) needed that kind of structure.

[drifting arch]

I want my Barsboldia to have horse-sized chubby cheeks

[drifting arch]

I wonder if that would extend to a creature like plesiosaurs since they had robust diets and chewed. What would that even look like?

[sudden wind]

I what world did Plesiosaurs chew

[tough parcel]

@manic grail @hardy sentinel No because the breaking point would be higher than where any vital portions of the vertebra are (assuming the spines aren't forcibly and violently ripped out, but even then it might apply)

@stable stream @white matrix @drifting arch They're not actually "chubby cheeks", it's an extra muscle not observed in any other group besides non-avian dinosaurs (afaik). They would be in the same area as you already see the pink muscle in current dinosaur reconstructions as well so it isn't a drastic change

[stable stream]

Unlikely, or at the very least not in the same way. They had elongated skulls with interlocking teeth designed for catching slippery prey, not really chewing.

[tough parcel]

Plesiosaurs would not have the exoparia as they are not non-avian dinosaurs

[stable stream]

Well yeah, “chubby cheeks” headline is a media-friendly oversimplification. Just a lot easier to say cheeks. To be more specific I could say ‘reptilian cheeks’.

[tough parcel]

I know but I've seen people take it seriously so bases covered

[drifting arch]

Gotcha, been reading this article on plesiosaurs from Australia so I was curious

[stable stream]

They’re not even dinosaurs at all as far as I was aware… are they a type of Archosaur?

[drifting arch]

They're a reptile but not a dinosaur from what I remember

[sudden wind]

First of all, if you chew you must have teeth adapted for grinding your food, which plesiosaurs lack. You may consider Plesiosaurs heterodont in some groups like Elasmosaurs, specifically Styxosaurines as they developed extremely prolonged teeth that I'd call fangs, they completely lack blunt teeth to crush and grind something.

Second of all, you also need some uncommon jaw mobility in order to chew your food, which I don't think Plesiosaurs had ?

[stable stream]

To my knowledge, plesiosaurs had conical, pointed teeth to pierce / hold prey in place. Styxosaurus got those "fangs" to snatch slippery prey like fish and cephalopods and had no `blunt' surfaces to crush with. Elasmosaurids had slow tooth formation cycles, meaning that tooth wear due to grinding had to be infrequent or even nonexistent. So, plesiosaur jaws worked by simple vertical shearing. And lateral / palinal movement ability is characterized by jaws of chewing dinosaurs and mammals. Right? (I remember too many words from Zoology in HS lol)

[white matrix]

it was a picture of a tyrannosaur...

[stable stream]

Yes, I realize this. But there’s evidence in the Exopaia discovery explaining convergent evolution in jaw-stabilizing soft tissues (“cheeks”) in theropods. They would maintain T. rex's teeth protection, prey control, and jaw stabilization. These are things quite necessary for an apex predator that uses forceful bites as opposed to regular mastication.

[severe yew]

would you have a face without a forehead? lol

didn't think so either

[stable stream]

Wait what….? The forehead is right in front of the eyes not above the eyes extending beyond the occipital structure of the skull

[outer tusk]

but that's not the animal's face 😭

yes a human skul and a pachyrhino skull is such a fair comparison

[stable stream]

The frill is made from the parietal and squamosal. Those are at the rear of the skull, not the forehead. Forehead is made up of the frontal bone.
(Sorry about all the edits, I’m ‘OCD’ about the way my sentences look)

[severe yew]

the forehead, also known as the frontal region (frontal bone), is the superior part of the face, extending from the hairline to the eyebrows

i have coupons for an online course in human anatomy if anyone needs it 🍻

[stable stream]

I did a quick look through Google, evidently it’s a common misconception, but the ceratopsian frill is definitely not part of the forehead.
Also, I am very completely aware of what a skull looks like I took multiple biology classes, forensics, and zoology with a lesson in this.
I am a biology minor undergrad. What you need to be looking at is a side angle of a skull not a front angle. The front from what you can see on the image you sent is considered the facial orientation. anything beyond that point is no longer the face.

[stable stream]

Also yes. The area around the frontal bone is considered the frontal portion / facial orientation of the skull, which creates the true forehead and face. But, ceratopsian frills do not extend from the frontal bone. They extend from the parietal (& squamosal). So it means the frill projects from the rear part of the skull, not from the forehead or facial region. (I didn’t like my prior explanation lol)

[severe yew]

yes, we all know that ceratopsians frills (the bony structures that extended backwards from the rear of the skull forming a neck shield), and that this frill was formed from the parietal and squamosal bones

and although wasn't specifically located on the forehead, per say, the frill is certainly still part of the head structure

[stable stream]

But you directly implied that the frill is a part of the face which it is not. It is definitely a head structure and I never implied that It wasn’t. In paleontology and osteology region-specific terms matter….

[white matrix]

I understand that but they wouldn't have been "chubby cheeks"

[severe yew]

i meant to say part of the skull, because i saw someone exaggerating something 😅

[stable stream]

I don’t think they would’ve been either. They would have been quite meaty with that head but 100% not ‘chubby’ or real pronounced. Like I said prior; “chubby cheeks” headlines are a media-friendly oversimplification.

[worldly thistle]

No with tissue and skin

[tough parcel]

No, you're still wrong because unless you have more than one right side of your face...it's half the face

Also @worldly thistle wdym

[worldly thistle]

Not skeletal,its full appearance

[severe yew]

that is still not half the face, that skull shows only a portion missing

half is 50 %, math 101

[white matrix]

thats equivalent to a human getting a chunk of their cheekbone bitten off

[tough parcel]

Ah then I can't think of...many that would have incorporated @stiff osprey recent skeletal but maybe they've saved some

And @white matrix this is a lot more than their cheekbone lol

[white matrix]

okay cheek bone and part of my eyebrow ridge

[worldly thistle]

They keep nerfing my boy spino how will it be able to rival rexy

[manic grail]

Spino is so strong that rex isnt considered a rival but prey if they meet

[worldly thistle]

Are we talking about a scientifically accurate one?

[white matrix]

how you think I feel about them making zhuchengtyrannus 8-10 meters while buffing tarbosaurus to 12...

[severe yew]

exactly 💯

[severe yew]

so you can have a better idea with this illustration that shows muscles and skin, that looks more like part of the cheek and a bit more

but certainly not "half its face"

[stable stream]

That damage extends into the zygomatic (cheek), jugal, and part of the maxilla regions, which is a significant facial injury, not just “a little off the side”… that’s like 1/4th of the face imo. Still pretty f-ed up tho, like imagine if a fourth of your face was clean ripped off

[severe yew]

yes, nobody is disputing that it was a significant facial injury

what its being disputed is the "half its face" claim, which is obviously an exaggeration

[undone rapids]

Almost Half its face it is

[stable stream]

I mean, yeah it’s an exaggeration. True…. I feel like it’s partially warranted for a tremendous injury like that. That is almost half of the face…. It feels like you are trying to minimize the facial trauma evident in the pathology specimen tho.

[tough parcel]

Tbf I think the current belief by the people studying it was some sort of infection might have triggered bone reabsorption/been the cause

But there's the chance a bite was the original infection reason

Still a real nasty wound

[severe yew]

no, like i said, the trauma was likely f... up

i mean, damn, how that individual survived after that? lol

but i have seen other animals survive even worse injuries so i would not be surprised 😬

[tough parcel]

Tbf I've seen videos of an alligator with an exposed lung chilling like nothing happened

White tail deer existing

Some nasty injuries on all sorts of birds

[severe yew]

bro, i know of humans who got their entire face mauled by bears (no exaggeration here) and yet somehow survived

[stable stream]

This was a major facial trauma, not a surface scratch like eeeeeeeesh— that’s like when my uncle got into a motorcycle accident. The affected areas are core parts of the facial skeleton, losing that much would severely alter ability to function. In terms of facial area I will still say ¼ to ⅓ of the face being damaged is not a wild estimate when considering muscle mass, eye socket position, and feeding mechanics.

If your aim was to clarify exaggerated language, fair. But minimizing the trauma as “just a bit of cheek” after calling the frill the face is… a little bit ironic…. /lh

[severe yew]

fair, alright, lets go get a drink and move on 🍻

[stable stream]

So, what about all these Iguanodons? (I just recently studied them)

[tough parcel]

Turned into coal 🔥

[stable stream]

Noooooooo!

[stiff osprey]

Luckily animals don't need to be able to fight against other animals that live in different continents and 20 million years apart, all Spino had to do was be good at eating fishe

[zealous ravine]

Blue Lias size chart

[stiff osprey]

amazingly fleshed out ecosystem

the large carnivore ate the medium carnivore which ate the small carnivore which spontaneously emerged from the earth

[tough parcel]

Much like the fly...wait...both fly and are the humble scavenger...

[fluid inlet]

Spino looks pretty damn good right now , I don’t know what nerfs we talking about.

Huge enough to make anything on land think twice about attacking , big sss sail , unique lifestyle , unique build.

[fluid inlet]

Why bro got a piece of steak above his beak

[lament pond]

so guys i have a question, in carcharodontosaurids, what purpose did the elongated spine serve compared to other theropods?

[tough parcel]

Muscle attachment

[lament pond]

can you elaborate how that made things better compared to theropods without such a elongated spine

[tough parcel]

I mean considering other theropods didn't develop it, I doubt it was in some way "better"

Just more room for muscles to anchor so carchs didn't need to worry about being flung halfway to the moon by a ticked-off sauropod

[white matrix]

@zealous ravine can you make a zhuchengtyrannus skeletal using these?

[lament pond]

so in other words, helped with maintaining further balance, compared to theropods that didnt develop that sorta spine?

[tough parcel]

No, carcharodontosaurids were usually gunning for sauropods which are usually much larger when compared to other megatheropods and their prey so having a strong neck and a larger head (though they did have to sacrifice some neck movement) than "average" is the result

The paper I attached goes over the second specimen for Taurovenator and a possible explanation for the raised spines

[stiff osprey]

Basically larger dorsal muscles are helpful for lifting and carrying a gigantic head

they were also probably helpful in pulling back said giant head to tear equally large chunks of meat from prey

[zealous ravine]

Nah I don’t do full body stuff

[stray saddle]

Camarasaurus skull.

[stiff osprey]

Trust

[tough parcel]

You can tell by the robust teeth and characteristic nose

[stray saddle]

Yes

[ashen wedge]

Nah you be mistaken since it’s clearly a Brachiosaurus Skull

[stray saddle]

🤔 it might be. It's difficult to guess because it has no skin

[ashen wedge]

Nah, after doing another look, you are right it’s a Camarasaurus Skull

[stray saddle]

Just look at the teeth. The molars seems to be designed to eat tall grass just like camarasurus, and also, you can see he has 4 cavities in the skull, possibly implying he had 4 eyes, 2 in each side. To see better through the tall trees

Trust me, I'm an expert. I've been studying lizard bodies since 1979, I met important people

[ashen wedge]

You right, it be having 4k eye vision to see the trees

[stable stream]

Lizard bodies 😂😭

[ashen wedge]

In all seriousness, I’m 98% sure that the skull is a Tyrannosaurus Rex, or 1% Daspletosaurus, or 1% Tarbosaurus

[stray saddle]

It's Rex skull😊

[ashen wedge]

I was pretty certain that it was

[tough parcel]

Now give us the name, model, place of discovery, and place of current residence

[stray saddle]

I think that's Thomas, a T Rex in a museum from Los Angeles

[zealous ravine]

Yeah that looks like one of the LACM juvies in the bg nvm I'm blind that thing has 5 fingers but it still looks like the LACM

[stray saddle]

Yes😊

[sullen cairn]

the biggest skull here is harley
the other three are down the hall and to the left

[severe yew]

is anyone here crazy enough to own the paleo accurate 44 inch long PNSO blue whale that runs at around $600 usd ?

now i kind of want it to go with my animal and dino figure collection, but damn...

[manic grail]

$600 is crazy

[honest cobalt]

Would buy

I have no room though

[severe yew]

i know, right? 😂

its crazy that not just the $ but in this case the space it takes, lmao

[manic grail]

Chat try to guess which skull this is

[sharp dragon]

Dog.

[topaz shell]

Bro that’s a snake duh

[opaque kayak]

Liver & Kidney ahh 💀

[wraith jay]

Skinny charcarodontosauridae💀

[sudden wind]

Sucho

[brave nova]

It’s irritator

[sharp dragon]

My Grandfather.

[rare nexus]

My mom?

[manic grail]

Yes

[manic grail]

It seems like irritator irritated you

[brave nova]

The one u sent has a split jaw. Sucho doesn’t have a split jaw

[manic grail]

I got it from here
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/suchomimus-skull-wip-66b314c247764aeeac0bee750def184f

[brave nova]

Dunno y they decided to give it a split jaw

[manic grail]

Oh i see. W correction

[sudden wind]

Archosaur dentaries aren't fused and are connected by cartilage. So they have some sort of "split" jaws which wouldn't be split when the animal was alive.

Here on Tyrannosaurus rex, Allosaurus fragilis, Gorgosaurus libratus and Crocodylus for example.

[manic grail]

So every archosaur has a split jaw?

[halcyon cobalt]

pretty sure they just said that

[brave nova]

I see but then y doesnt the Sucho Skeletals show it?

Like on all Rex, allo, giga Skeletals etc they do actually show it now that I look but for Sucho no

[manic grail]

I asked because there are some archosaur traits with exceptions. Like crocodiles not having an antorbital fenestra

[brave nova]

I thought it was something specific to irritator hence the idea irritator could open its jaws up and have a more pelican like jaw

[sudden wind]

Irritator jaw mobility does not come from the gap between the dentaries : it comes from how the jaw joints articulate, causing the bones to bend laterally.

[ashen wedge]

Question: what’s the most largest Megaraptor?

[frigid delta]

has there any news abt Nedoceratops' validity?

[frigid delta]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maip

[ashen wedge]

Thank you

[frigid delta]

yw

[iron halo]

what about the fabled megaraptoran bahariasaurus

[tough parcel]

Conjecture and I will make sure it stays WRONG with the help of the humble bull elephants in musth

[sudden wind]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/646184620194529281/1331374286241271848/MusthPrivileges.gif

[frigid delta]

can i have sm answer abt this pls?

[ashen wedge]

Noooo!!!!!

[frigid delta]

?

[tough parcel]

No

[frigid topaz]

From what I've heard, it's most likely a Noasaur now

[balmy oyster]

Except only the ischium is noasaur is morphology. The rest does not match up.

[warm temple]

Im still confused, do they break their jaw everytime to open its mouth??

[sudden wind]

No.

[wraith jay]

Guys what's your favorite dino mine saurophaganax

[warm temple]

Explain to me (im a visual learner btw)

[balmy oyster]

I have bad news for you…

[scenic flame]

not every though

[wraith jay]

I know i know...

[balmy oyster]

it CAN return one day…we can only hope.

[stark roost]

I thought that was delta? But they probably the same thing anyway

[tough parcel]

They aren't

The key feature that Cau (assuming you're speaking about the recent paper by him) used to diagnose them as synonymous was plaster, not the actual fossil

[stark roost]

Ah ok

[compact leaf]

allegedly plaster is the only thing splitting bronto and apato

[zealous ravine]

I doubt that considering there are multiple species assigned to each

[stable marlin]

Looks like a rex

[balmy oyster]

Oh my god

[balmy oyster]

I doubt it, considering we have at least two pretty complete specimens for brontosaurus Parvus that we can compare to louisae + the other two bronto species

[compact leaf]

this is just what brian curtice randomly says on facebook, could be just one bronto specimen but he does not like the genus

[balmy oyster]

Might just be bias

[compact leaf]

he’s also a well known lumper

[stiff osprey]

Fishy shows us pictures of two specimens of the same species to prove that they are different genera

[lavish frigate]

Ok guys, these are beautiful (JWE3 creatures!!!)

[stiff osprey]

That proceratosaurid is unironically really good, I thought it was a PK update

[lavish frigate]

It’s guanlong, and yeah it’s beautiful

[hardy sentinel]

I LOVE MODERN DAY DINOSAUR DIVERSITY 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🥶🥶🥶🥶🦅🦅

[hardy sentinel]

THEY HAVE LIPS

Deffo gonna buy this game

[frigid delta]

where is this come from?

[lavish frigate]

They dropped after the trailer

[stark roost]

Yay

[opaque kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-birds-pigeon-pigeons-kereru-gif-24907272

[manic grail]

Today i learned about the existence of the blue penguins

[elfin pulsar]

Wow what a gorgeous dinosaur, I never seen such a beautiful beast!

[balmy oyster]

haven't mammals been around for technically longer if you think about it

[ashen wedge]

I’m certain that both were around, but I believe mammals were first prior to the dinosaurs

[fluid inlet]

True but if we getting technical then reptiles been around longer , I was just dumbfounded by the A.I lol

[stiff osprey]

mammals appear at the end of the triassic by the earliest, dinosaurs are older

[light osprey]

Are Dinosaurs not a late Triassic thing as well

[stiff osprey]

yes, but the earliest mammaliaforms are norian, while the earliest dinosaurs are ladinian (or earliest carnian)

presumably mammals appeared some time after mammaliforms did

[light osprey]

Do we have any crown group Mammalia from the Triassic

[stiff osprey]

Not that i know of, i think it's molecular clocks that put them in the triassic

[fluid inlet]

Ain’t there some early Triassic theropod footprints

[stiff osprey]

no, prob made by pseudosuchians or some dinosauromorph type thing

''late triassic'' is a misleading term because the late triassic actually takes up 2/3 of the entire triassic period and early/mid triassic are tiny squeezes of time

[fluid inlet]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0895981112000831

[stiff osprey]

these are norian-rhaetian, late triassic

[fluid inlet]

But if they are that big how long did it take them to evolve into that point from whatever dinosaur they came from 🤨

[light osprey]

Not very long

[stiff osprey]

herrerasaurus is only about 5-7 million years after the first known dinosaurs and it already weighs half a ton

also keep in mind the diagram is oversized, the footprint maker was not built like allosaurus

[opaque kayak]

Chad Norian single handedly being half the triassic

[stiff osprey]

oh crap if we use the ladinian age for gamatavus and the other guy then middle triassic dinosaurs are real

[balmy oyster]

silesaurs are dinosaurs now? that's new

[opaque kayak]

Apparently they are according to this nightmare of a phylogeny

I don't know anything about phylogenies but this looks clapped

[balmy oyster]

there's a slightly better one from 2023

check the classification section
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesauridae

[wraith jay]

It's my birthday 😃

[balmy oyster]

that's a weird looking...pliosaur?

but also yes archelon so peak

[manic grail]

Does anyone know a good dinosaur API with pictures?

[sudden wind]

That's AI

[opaque kayak]

Alr archelon looked weird

[hardy sentinel]

I love how the Ichthyosaurs, Plesiosaurs, and Turtles are all a family (or so I've been told). You can really see it when you look past the hell that turtles are basically just short necked Plesiosaurs with beaks

[sudden wind]

That's an old idea which may not old up anyway (first the Plsio + turtle group and now the whole Archosaurian marine clade).

[charred hearth]

what would the largest macropredatoral snake be?

[fluid inlet]

Vasuki , duh.

[charred hearth]

did you ever fight socks yet

[white matrix]

so so far what we have for zhuchengtyrannus that's definitive

• complete leg
• shoulder/scapula
• maxilla
• lower jaw
• part of the temporal fenestra

[fluid inlet]

Can’t fight the scared

[charred hearth]

clock it

[scenic flame]

afaik the only definitive part are the maxilla and jower jaw, everything else doesn't have overlap so can't be confidently assigned to zhue

[balmy oyster]

Yeah I know

[white matrix]

can i dm the source? its not the same stuff that they cant decide if its tarbo or zhucheng, its something else

i will say its very small, 89 cm femur....

[scenic flame]

there is no source, simply put if the new specimens containing:

• complete leg
• shoulder/scapula
• part of the temporal fenestra
  don't have overlap with the holotype, you cannot be certain it's the same species/genus

[fluid inlet]

How paleo accurate

[white matrix]

then why would it include the maxilla and jaw as part of it? it isn't new either

[scenic flame]

wdym? the maxilla and jaw are the holotype, tmk the rest are other specimens attributed to zhuecheng even though there's no overlap

[white matrix]

sent a dm

[scenic flame]

do you have a SS of what you sent me

either way I'm not sure what else to say

[tall forge]

[ashen wedge]

Nah the original gangsta was that one cell that decided to split into more cells, the cell was lonely so it made more

[thorn grove]

There’s a new specimen assigned as of 2022, the study said it had a maxilla with similar features to the holotype, albeit of a smaller length

[scenic flame]

ah ok, that makes more sense then

[thorn grove]

I would link it but last time some one tried to the auto mod deleted it

I could dm it tho

[white matrix]

sure i can send it

[white matrix]

@thorn grove hey so rex had a longer femur than tibia right?

this zhuchengtyrannus had a 89 cm femur and 95 cm tibia
rn im scaling the new maxilla to the old one
if its bigger than that means zhuchengtyrannus size nerf...

okay it says both maxilla are the same size

BUT that when referencing tyrannosaurus, tarbo and the qianzo whatever that it doesn't look to be fully developed
meaning so far when scaling using its femurs, we got a 8 meter zhuchengtyrannus but with the potential to be a lot larger
Basically same boat as alamosaurus

lets hope that unclassified tyrannosaur is just a fully mature zhuchengtyrannus 🙏

lets pray for 12 meter zhuchengtyrannus

[acoustic sapphire]

in the new walking with dinosaurs spinosaurus aegyptiacus has slit pupils and i suspect this is because they wanted to give it a more crocodilian appearance and the inference on semi-aquatic ability, but does evidence suggest round pupils instead?

[balmy oyster]

Better depth perception and vision at night, mainly for predatory animals that need to rely on ambushing to catch their prey

While it’s plausible I feel as if spinosaurs would’ve benefited more from rounder pupils considering it shares its habitat with a lot of other giant predatory and rounded pupils would be overall better for all-rounded vision

[brave stump]

Both current models

Left is the oversized model

Right is Thal correct size (sub)

[fluid inlet]

Carcharodontosaurus is going to be in primitive war ?

[thorn grove]

i thought the new one was smaller, did i misread

also yes T. rex has a longer femur than tibia

[tough parcel]

So Primitive War is a novel series first and foremost

The caption even reads "second novel" instead of "movie" or whatever else

The movie is based on the first novel which is during the Vietnam War!

[white matrix]

"equivalent in size to the massive zhuchengtyrannus"

idk if google translate just sucks but that's what it said

[fluid inlet]

Carcharodontosaurus in the movie would be peak

[thorn grove]

mine says something else

The study claims the new one is 460 mm, while iirc the holotype is 63 cm long, considerably bigger, so this translation makes more sense

[white matrix]

what did you use to translate? i got something way different

[thorn grove]

"Well first off the easy stuff – we can measure the bones we do have and that gives us a 64 cm maxilla and a 78 cm dentary, though the latter would probably have been a bit longer in life."

https://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/so-just-how-big-was-zhuchengtyrannus/

I used image translate instead of copying the text, that may give different results

But yea the new specimen seems to be quite a bit smaller than the old one going by the numbers, I was actually remembering the holotype slightly smaller than it actually is

[white matrix]

so old one is 10 meters, new is 8 ?

[thorn grove]

technically if the new one is 8 m then the old one scales to be 11 but I think Tyrannosaurid maxillae get proportionately larger as they age (don't quote me on that) so 10 seems more reasonable and is roughly what people got from scaling it to Tarbosaurus maxillae

[white matrix]

bro Google translate is buns
"the lower would have been 40 meters"

it was talking about a tooth btw...

[thorn grove]

Livyatan is smoked

[wary fable]

Out of the top 10 largest carnivorous dinosaurs where do carchadontosaurus and acrocanthosaurus place if even up there

[brave nova]

Based off current estimates they are 4/5

[stark roost]

Isn’t like the ranking 1. tyranosaurus 2. Giga 3. Spino 4. Carcharodontosaurus = 5. TyranoTitan 6. Mapusaurus 7. Acrocanthosaurus 8. Taurovenator ( might be bigger then acro? ) 9. and 10 are like zhucheng, tarbo, tameryraptor, Kenyan Giant, meraxes, Allo Anax, and like a few other carcharadontosaurs

[brave nova]

The ranking was
Rex
Giga
Spino
Carcha
Mapu
meraeensis
Tyranno
Tauro
Acro
Mera

But the new Acro reconstructions based off the museum mount has it as big/bigger than carcha

[stark roost]

I didn’t put macreensis since I just went for the biggest tyranosaurus ( both species included ). And I thought those acro constructions were oversized? Or are they new

[brave nova]

I haven’t heard much more about them since it was being talked about. Tmk its weight range is still 5.9t-8.5t

[stark roost]

I also saw a video saying Kelmayisaurus was bigger than Meraxes and Tameryraptor? Idk if it was length or actual size idk

[brave nova]

I haven’t even heard of kelmayisaurus before tbf. But looking at its skeletal I doubt it. It’s pretty skinny. But it doesn’t look to have good remains

[stark roost]

I’ll show the video https://youtu.be/BliwP9Wd8PY?si=ai4H989TwfdeHFj3

[brave nova]

The weights in the video seem abit off based on the current estimates tbh

Like
Mera is 5.7t
Tauro is 6.3t
Tyranno is 6.7t
Mapu is 7t
Carcha is 7.6t or 8.4t depending on who u wanna scale it off
Giga is 8.6t but then if u wanna use dentary it’s 10.7t
Then with Acro the scaling for it before using the museum mount had it at 6.1t

[frigid delta]

Giga's dentary is 10.7t since when?

[balmy oyster]

I also learnt that it could just be about the same size as holotype giga too since apparently the size difference isn’t really that great…

Maybe we’ll find out better when the third specimen comes out in a decade lol

[white matrix]

we also wont know zhucheng's true size for another decade

bet there's a well articulated skeleton out there being kept secret

[thorn grove]

Wangshi is unfortunately dumb

[white matrix]

like you're telling me you found all these shantungosaurus but only one single bone for zhuchengtitan??

@lofty creek you got anything on zhuchengtitan?

[lofty creek]

kelmayi was small
like a averange allo size
8 metres around

the 10-to-12-metre-kelmayi was a mistake
like 7-metre-Beishanlong holotype

[lofty creek]

its dumber than your craziest image
the local goverment made it into a dumbass dino theme small park filled with bad mounts and they use Trex for zhuchengtyrannus
they even keep that name "Huaxiasaurus gigantus" which is a quite old name for shant
I feel like my eyes get seriously damaged when I went there

[lofty creek]

yes, named from one single bone
and with hundreds(if not thousands) of Shant indivaduals in the same group
also shant is everywhere
there's even shant found in west China
(wangshi group is in the east)

[thorn grove]

wait what i've never heard of a west china shant do you have a source for that

i've seen images from that theme park i didnt realize it was that bad tho

[white matrix]

was thinking theres more

[lofty creek]

@thorn grove @white matrix also have u guys check that large scapula(KG-151)?
a 89 cm scapula is fairly good

[lofty creek]

in shan'nxi province
give me a minute

[white matrix]

what's that ?

[thorn grove]

i saw but im less familiar with scapula scaling

[lofty creek]

I was just searching for the origin and suddenly recalled that wikipedia mentioned that
it had a 1.4 metre femur iirc
the origin was a report

[white matrix]

how big is it compared to a rex's?

[thorn grove]

im curious if that'll stick but increasing shant's range from basically one city to like all of china is wild

[white matrix]

i mean its numbers in wangshi were insane.... would make sense for it to be dominant in most of china

[lofty creek]

I believe there's some trex that have a scapular around 90 cm so compare it with them
but also this zhuchengtyrannus also has a near complete leg
so why not use its leg or femur to make a better estimation

[white matrix]

its basically complete, only missing a few toe bones

[lofty creek]

there were many lambeosaur in masstrichtian China
while they had dead up in North America
shant had to compete with them

[thorn grove]

on the one hand yea

on the other hand given how abnormal its size is compared to other hadrosaurs i figured wangshi just had unusual environmental conditions allowing for that size

although 1.4 meters is smaller than most shant femora so maybe this is a smaller species than giganteus

[white matrix]

cause its smaller than the first zrex if you compare maxillas, and that femur scales to 8 meters, it also isnt fully grown

[lofty creek]

so the scapular was
not very normal for it…
unusually large I think

[white matrix]

could be a different zrex's

[sullen cairn]

i was about to say couldnt they just be different individuals given bonebed

[white matrix]

^ yeah 89 cm scapula would be way too big for that zhucheng

89 cm femur and 94 cm tibia with thin bone walls suggest it was still growing

plus when comparing maxillas it was way smaller

[lofty creek]

so we actually get a 8-meter subadult or just immature and a way larger adult with it…
goddamned single scapular estimate time

[white matrix]

id say its a sub, too bulky for a juvi

when does the femur get longer than the tibia in rex?

12 meter zhucheng is real.... i feel it in my nuggets

[lofty creek]

for that scapular I'd like to suggest it at ~11 metres?
though single bone estimate never reliable

[white matrix]

id say more like 10

[thorn grove]

i am too lazy to measure from skeletals but am having a frustratingly hard time finding t rex scapula measurements

[lofty creek]

Ok
likely to be slightly larger than holotype then

[white matrix]

i dont think theres any complete ones? but you could ask these guys for their sources

[lofty creek]

bro even try to do that 😭
its crazy to dig exact size from a single scapular

[balmy oyster]

Eyeball it like a pro

[thorn grove]

those scale to either 9.5 or 11 meters but I rarely see Zhucheng restored with actual T. rex-like proportions, I usually see it look more like Tarbo if anything but idk how well founded that is given how little material there is for now

[white matrix]

do you have anything sub adult rex legs?

[thorn grove]

idk rex specimen ages off the top of my head but MOR 009 has a tibia ever so slightly longer than its femur and is pretty small by rex standards

Table 1: https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24118

[white matrix]

well if you compare their scapulas its closer to tarbo than it is to dasp or rex @thorn grove

[wary fable]

Big acro energy

[white matrix]

i sense zhucheng being bigger than tarbo on the way...

[thorn grove]

it is a big scapula but idk tarbo scapula numbers lol

also info on that Shanyang Shant according to some random archived email that google came up with

Shantungosaurus cf. giganteus
material- (NWUV 1114) two teeth, caudal centrum, humerus (900 mm),
incomplete ulna, partial radius, manual phalanx, partial pubis(?), femur
(1.536 m), distal metatarsal(?), unidentified flat bone (scapula?)
Shanyang Formation or Hongtuling Formation, Shaanxi, China
Maastrichtian, LC
Description- This is mentioned as being similar to the type species, but a
bit smaller. It is actually always referred to in the article as
"Shandongosaurus cf. giganteus Hu 1974", but looks hadrosaurian and
Shantungosaurus was described by Hu in 1973, so I'm betting it's a
misspelling. https://dml.reptilis.net/2000Sep/msg00139.html

[lofty creek]

yes
same thing
the spell system was different
now that's spelled as shandong but shantung was older

[thorn grove]

yea the transliterations have changed a few times

the measurements alone make it seem like it's shant though, that's a massive humerus

it just seems ridiculous for it to be limited to a small part of eastern china in campanian rocks and then randomly turn up in maastrichtian rocks in western china but who knows ig

might be a different species at least

[lofty creek]

edmonton also survived a long time so thats possible
also Wangshi is a biota, not a formation anymore
it's longer and bigger than u may think

[light osprey]

Do you mean Wangshi is a geologic group